Landgull: Bingo - if central America looks good to you/you speak Spanish, south America is also a good place to flee to.

Landgull: If you're avoiding the US, you want to establish at the very least legal permanent residence, and proof of it somewhere else, for the tax exemption.

Landgull: Fair enough. I established Paraguayan legal residency a while back as a way to 1) have legal residence in a 0% tax area and 2) have a guaranteed place I'm allowed to go if the world suddenly decides that it doesn't really want Americans hanging about.

Landgull: They can't ban flights in and out of the US, that would strangle the beast. ☟︎

Landgull: Or to go to places where you can live comfortably on ~$500-750 a month, and teach English.

Landgull: Well, by the time the US is done, you should have found some way to integrate yourself into the local community.

Landgull: Bingo: Go to Georgia - your visitor's visa is good for 360 days out of 365 (take a trip across a border to anywhere, or just give someone a $10 bribe) and English is becoming the new state language, replacing Russian, so native English speakers are in demand.

Landgull: CIS countries aren't exactly paradise, but if you want out, there are plenty of ways out.

Landgull: Fair enough. I haven't been to Georgia yet, I'm hoping to visit sometime in the next few months.

Landgull: Sure. But there are still plenty of parts of the world where the food supply comes from within 100 miles of the city.

Landgull: Well, you strike me as a pretty decent coder/developer, ascii. In any country that is an outsourcing location for devs, being able to develop and being a native English speaker makes you a valuable hire.

Landgull: I'm in Lviv, Ukraine right now. I can walk down to the market and buy a kilo of fresh strawberries for the local equivalent of $.50, and a bottle of vodka for $2.50

Landgull: Well, if you're smart enough to know how to allocate memory in C, you can find a way to earn $500 a month anywhere in the world.

Landgull: Well, what do you do in the USA now? And Putin has no interest in Lviv.

Landgull: Fair enough. All I know is that I'd plow fields to avoid going back to the US.

Landgull: So, if you sold those skills freelance, for $100 an hour, you could work for 10 hours a month and live very comfortably in most parts of the world.

Landgull: Most non-anglophone parts.

Landgull: Decimation: As do I. But that's much easier to achieve when your expenses are $500, not $5,000.

Landgull: Fair points as well. And I'm not suggesting Lviv as a specific destination, I'm here meeting the girlfriend's family - though it's really quite a nice city.

Landgull: I guess it depends on what pieces of life you consider living. I'm not arguing that it's easier to get out of the US, if it were easier it would be done.

Landgull: You can buy enough rental properties in Lviv to live indefinitely with indefinite free time for ~$100k USD. ☟︎

Landgull: Ascii: No-one really hates Americans, unless you're the socks with sandals type.

Landgull: ...I'm telling you from having been to a number of places and talked to a number of people, I've yet to meet anyone who hates American people.

Landgull: Plenty hate the American government.

Landgull: ...except the only gulags that still exist are in the USA.

Landgull: And North Korea.

Landgull: But I'm not advocating trying to migrate to North Korea.

Landgull: Most governments don't have the kind of resources to do US style insanity.

Landgull: And most people in the world don't have the culture of violence that the US does.

Landgull: Well, the Ukrainians have thrown more molotovs at their government than anyone else recently.

Landgull: And probably will again soon.

Landgull: I know all about Nuland.

Landgull: And the US corruption of the Maidan.

Landgull: But seriously, it takes 10 minutes of talking to actual Ukrainians walking around here to see that they haven't bought USgov propaganda properly. As much as the information net wants you to believe it's the same everywhere, it isn't.

Landgull: Ascii: 1) I can buy a plane ticket somewhere else if a real invasion happened. 2) If the Russians came into the Ukrainian speaking part of Ukraine, they'd be fighting a massive guerrilla war...they're succeeding in Donetsk and Luhansk because the people there are Russians and have a Russian identity.

Landgull: I'd mention that I'm out here doing what you claim to want to do.

Landgull: You don't want to get out of the US?

Landgull: Before I came here, I would have said the same thing.

Landgull: And the government is owned by the US here, but the government here doesn't have any actual power. ☟︎

Landgull: That's the thing that's virtually impossible to understand while you're still in the US.

Landgull: Sure, they will. What kind of trouble are you looking to make?

Landgull: Do you have enough money for them to notice you exist?

Landgull: If bitcoin starts replacing fiat, the USgov isn't going to have the resources to come after you.

Landgull: As for the rest: How many of them lived in non-anglophone countries?

Landgull: Sure. But I'd expect your chances are better in a country where the government is essentially non-existent than they are somewhere that they know where you are and can knock on your door.

Landgull: Ascii: cash, and meatWOT, and btc are all keys to avoiding that.

Landgull: My girlfriend is from here. Her family likes me. If it were THAT dire, I'd go run away to their village and help them grow food.

Landgull: If you're going to declare yourself an enemy of the USgov and be a real threat to them, they'll find you, sure.

Landgull: Or any major government.

Landgull: If you just don't want flashbangs coming in your window and poisonous food, then you can have a much better life outside of the US.

Landgull: Ascii: There is no actual food available in the US unless you grow it yourself. Seriously. I didn't think it was that bad until I ate real food. As for the flashbangs: people get no-knocked all the time. You're the ones saying they're going to send death-squads to Ukraine after me, but you're not worried about them doing the same to you from in their backyard?

Landgull: If they want you, they'll find you wherever you go. But it takes a lot more wanting to deal with finding you somewhere else than it does to find you when you're wrapped up with a bow for them.

Landgull: Plus, as I said, the USgov owns the UAgov, but unlike the US where the government really effects your life, the government here is a mass of incompetent bureaucracy without any serious ability to organize anything. ☟︎

Landgull: Well, I'm not trying to be here on a permanent visa.

Landgull: And I'm not suggesting Lviv as the destination of the century - like I said, I'm here to meet the girlfriend's family.

Landgull: Yeah, but most of those soldiers are extremely hostile to the UAgov at this point. It's more likely to be paid for by the UAarmy than the RUarmy.

Landgull: I've heard the Phillipines are good. I've never been there.

Landgull: If the troops have more guns than they have generals...

Landgull: These people have been fighting for actual independence, from everyone, for over 100 years. They've fought poles, they've fought germans, they've fought russians.

Landgull: Unlike the USgov with a nebulous idea of "we want to spread democracy guyz" they actually know what they're fighting for.

Landgull: Ascii: Most of the "economic development" in the world is fed by debt-bubbles.

Landgull: As for the nazi issue: Yes, Bandera and UPA are considered cultural heroes here, and yes they co-operated with the germans, because they thought it was their best chance for an independent Ukraine.

Landgull: Most of the things you're saying are what I thought before I actually got on an airplane and came here.

Landgull: In Lviv?

Landgull: Are you Russian or Ukrainian?

Landgull: ...except I can look at people and tell who is Russian and who is Ukrainian. And again: I'm not saying Ukraine is the mecca to run to, I'm saying that getting out of the US to somewhere that is saner, (and yes, UA is saner than the US) is worth the effort.

Landgull: Ascii: holodomor and resettling of russians during the USSR definitely effected the country in a big way, demographically, such that "historically Ukrainian" lands aren't really Ukrainian anymore.

Landgull: But the Ukrainians are an actual race and culture - yes they're similar to the Poles, the Hungarians, and the Russians, but whether or not they're a biological race or just a cultural and linguistic one, they've a strong sense of national identity and a strong desire for national self-determination.

Landgull: I also think that Crimea and eastern UA shouldn't probably be part of the same country as western and central UA.

Landgull: Except the people here have been fighting to be their own country since before the US became an empire.

Landgull: Decimation: It's not something I know enough about to make any comment on.

Landgull: And if they want independence, why shouldn't they have it?

Landgull: So, you're opposed to US imperialism, but simultaneously think that people shouldn't have a right to self-determination?

Landgull: Ascii: a kalashnikov in the hands of every resident would achieve the same thing. ☟︎

Landgull: You don't go running headfirst towards tanks unless you're an idiot.

Landgull: ...for the last time, I'm not saying "Hey guys, you should move to Ukraine." or that I'm moving to Ukraine for that matter - I prefer South America on the whole. I'm saying that if you want personal liberty, and to not live in an insane culture, you can actually leave and be better off.

Landgull: Ascii: I won't disagree with you (decimation, you're wrong.) that most of the world is currently under the USgov thumb, to some degree. But you are still better off in an outlying part of it, where the control is less potent, and has much less influence on your daily life (like, in terms of being able to buy food that doesn't make you sick, and being able to date girls who aren't insane) than you are sitting in their back yard

Landgull: Ascii: met the girl in Canada, she pays for half of everything, and she's not interested in ever going back to the west, because it's too insane.

Landgull: Decimation: You're imagining that governments in the rest of the world work like the US government. I.E. the laws on the books matter. They can pass a law saying just about anything they want, but they don't have the means to enforce it and they have a population that is used to just ignoring government stupidity instead of bending over.

Landgull: The babusya/babushkas here have more power than Poroshenko does.

Landgull: Sure. And it's why you do need to actually integrate. I.E. learn the language, get to know people, etc.

Landgull: Same thing with the women. If you go to Ukraine, find English speaking girls, and flash your passport and cash around, you're going to have a bad day.

Landgull: ~40-50 hryvnyas. So $2-3

Landgull: Ascii: I'm working, slowly, on my Ukrainian. My Spanish is much better.

Landgull: Decimation: I'm not running from, I'm running to.

Landgull: I used to be running from.

Landgull: I like learning languages, and I like buying my food in an open air market from the person who grew it.

Landgull: Haha. I also like cheap vodka and cops you can bribe away from petty crimes.

Landgull: XD

Landgull: I'd rather there were a safe, sane, stable country where I could go, build a business, and have a normal life, but that's not going to exist until btc finishes what it has started. ☟︎

Landgull: And if the western finance system does come crashing down, you're going to be better off in poor countries (granted that you can live like a local) because they're used to things like that happening. USistan will devolve into utter insanity.

Landgull: !up Vexual

Landgull: Sure, it's not for everyone.

Landgull: Moving. The fact that people still pay for cable is proof that the second isn't for everyone.

Landgull: It was more of a quip than a serious comment - but I know a number of people who spend their time yelling at the box because of what obama/the republicans/the gays/the church did today.

Landgull: Right now, Lviv, Ukraine.

Landgull: For the next 2.5 months.

Landgull: Cost of living, for the same standard of living, is ~5-10x lower here than in the US

Landgull: If you actually go shop at the market and take public transport, as opposed to walling yourself off in some hotel.

Landgull: The food is better than anything I've ever had before.

Landgull: People from the villages around Lviv bring in what they grow and sell it to you. No mass-produced GMO rin tomatoes.

Landgull: The reason tomatoes are pink instead of red is they're heterozygous for RIN, or ripening-inhibition gene to make them ship better. ☟︎

Landgull: Well, they're still firm, because they're fresh. But you have to go to the market every day or two because the food goes bad quickly. ☟︎

Landgull: Which sounds like a bad thing, but I'd like to know why it is that chicken rots much faster in Ukraine than in the US...

Landgull: If the bacteria won't eat it...

Landgull: I'm not trying to claim that this is some kind of paradise, it's absolutely not, and you have to give up a lot of the "first world" comforts.

Landgull: Eh, violence here when it happens is much more the fist fight sort than the murder sort.

Landgull: Or the "I want your money" and then run away sort.

Landgull: It's definitely safer than the city I grew up in back in the US.

Landgull: So doesn't that mean the 20mb block will self-defeat?

Landgull: I don't think they can keep fighting physics and math forever.

Landgull: Sure, but at least you didn't die of rabies.

Landgull: That was sarcasm.

Landgull: Homo facebookus would have to be aware of its life to die.

Landgull: It would, though. The US learned from the USSR: you're better off making people believe that you'll be murdered and raped and strangled if you go anywhere and leave the hotel. It keeps people in line much more effectively than a travel ban would.

Landgull: If a few dissidents flee, what of it? They were dissidents anyway.

Landgull: But if you try to ban leaving, they have to admit what they really are.

Landgull: I don't own real estate in Lviv and won't particularly recommend it as an investment. Though it's probably better than a US bank account, which I do have.

Landgull: I wouldn't be in a bitcoin channel if I thought that assets a government can take from you easily were a good idea. XD

Landgull: As for the rest: if you're in line at a slaughterhouse, your best move is always to try to get away, even if you risk being shot in the process. Uncertain success is better than certain failure, and life in the US has become so intolerable that I'd rather take my chances with an uncertain future than with a certain one.

Landgull: I'm a newb.

Landgull: I'm just some guy who found this place a few weeks ago, read the logs for a while, and decided that I'd like to join the community here, if it'll have me.

Landgull: Heh. Was a startup I was working on, using black soldier fly larvae to convert organic waste into biodiesel, fish feed, and fertilizer. Actually got it into Startup Chile, but my business partner refused to go to Chile and cost me the grant.

Landgull: Patents are in the process. And yeah, it was the girlfriend - not married yet, but she has his balls just the same.

Landgull: It's for the best, the more I've learned about the "start up community" the more they make me want to gouge out my own eyes.

Landgull: I'd say if you're dating a girl who would allow you to not go to something like that, you're dating the wrong woman.

Landgull: Either way, a couple other people have caught onto similar ideas and have gotten pretty far ahead of me by now, but I put in a patent app a while back and with any luck I'll be able to license those out when I get done with it.

Landgull: Meh - fair point, but I mean they have very limited ability to screw with people who are just trying to live their lives.

Landgull: Sure, if the Ukrainians had anything to steal, the government would rapidly begin to steal it. But right now it's more profitable for them to steal from the USG.

Landgull: Sure. And my response is that I expect to dry my laundry on a clothesline until fiat is dead.

Landgull: But I still prefer people who steal from you because they're just stealing from you and they want your stuff to people who steal for you and ask you to say it's for your own good.

Landgull: The Ukie lot only try to steal your stuff, they don't bother trying to rape your mind.

Landgull: steal from you, rather*

Landgull: Sure, but having grown up in the US, the buttons that were implanted in me can still be pushed by their propaganda.

Landgull: There's not really anywhere safe to go with assets, including btc, though it beats most of the alternatives.

Landgull: Mircea: out of curiosity, wouldn't Romania be culturally closer to Ukraine than to the USA? I'm curious which of the two you would prefer to live in (or, for that matter, if there's a place that's better in your mind.)

Landgull: Sure, but given that we're still in meatspace, one does have to pick a corner of it, or at least a corner at any given time.

Landgull: I think the rise of the nation state has caused people to think that there are supposed to be hard lines between ethnicities and cultures.

Landgull: If a state of affairs is highly profitable for a minority at the expense of a majority, and is maintained via force, I tend to think it's not entirely self-organizing.

Landgull: So I take it you're a fan of the Assad government, then? Or the House of Saud?

Landgull: Both minority groups that organized their way to power by becoming useful as puppets to larger entities (RU and USA, respectively.) Arguably better than the mob that is trying to seize power, but then, that mob is mostly backed by the respective large entities anyway.

Landgull: It's how they've solidified and maintained it.

Landgull: So, what is Saudi oil priced in nowadays?

Landgull: That only solidifies the argument that the House of Saud is a minority that came to power by will rather than by riding a wave.

Landgull: If one recognizes the value of some asset, such as oil, and uses it to its fullest benefit to gain power, I'd find it hard to successfully argue that it's not a group coming to power by organizing its ascendency.

Landgull: But what I mean is this: your argument is a non-form because the goal posts can always be shifted. If they have a strategic advantage of any sort, it can be claimed as a wave. Some strategic advantage will always exist. So the only way a minority can organize against a majority without "just riding a wave" is if they ignore all of their strategic advantages - which would make your supreme good exceedingly foolish. It's like say

Landgull: Even if the cause is imperceptible, without some skill of maintenance everything crumbles in time. Which book is a best seller today is likely random and inscrutable, no book would be read 1,000 years after being written without skill.

Landgull: Sure, but if we were to be forced to place a bet on what would be read 1,000 years from now, my bet would go towards the good.

Landgull: Yours.

Landgull: Since you're right that I don't know who he is, I can't respond to that argument.

Landgull: I do hate Lincoln more than any other US president, though.

Landgull: Thank you for the debate - I concede the point and I'm off to run errands. I am, however, still waiting for someone to claim and argue for their corner of meatspace, instead of against mine (of the moment.)