assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60600 @ 0.00028226 = 17.105 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7450 @ 0.00029176 = 2.1736 BTC [+]
decimation: asciilifeform: re: smt placement < according to the podcast, the macrofab guys said they often hand-place stuff if it is going to be a pain in the ass to configure the pick n place for it
gnnr: hello just a reader of the logs, joining here
decimation: asciilifeform: in fact, they implied that pretty much only house parts are placed on the pick n place, the rest are hand placed
decimation: actually they asked him about that and he said no
decimation: apparently they have a supply of skilled techs
decimation: they are apparently profitable at these price levels
decimation: but they were going to branch out into more 'turnkey' design services so they can feed off of the kickstart idiocy
mod6: asciilifeform: you're familiar with mpi right?
mod6: take a look at this:
http://dpaste.com/0SQPBKC.txt Is there any reason when allocating the space for p & q to do Eulers totient they would initialize the space with 'p' and 'p', instead of 'p' & 'q'?
☟︎☟︎ mod6: i see below the actual maff is being carried out in here:
mod6: mpi_sub_ui( t1, p, 1 );
mod6: mpi_sub_ui( t2, q, 1 );
mod6: they're both declared with type MPI, was just curious i guess.
pete_dushenski: looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose.
pete_dushenski: not sure why i decided to write-up ex machina, which i didn't particularly enjoy, instead of dirty rotten scoundrels, which i also just watched and found to be quite a bit more of a hoot.
mod6: gnupg v1.4.13's rsa.c yup
mod6: seems, like it also exists at least in 1.4.12 too
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.gnnr.1:009c9a042d08395c24ba1117d6762c37db01e0d328c4e91cf3d868bdbc0e6b52
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gnnr with note: just a reader of the logs
mod6: so above there they do a swap of 'p' & 'q' to make p the smaller of the two. then they take the nlimbs of 'p' twice to allocate the space for each t1 & t2. which i thought was kinda strange.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.trinque.2:4f4362b537fda69e14eadb8f693ed355d615a96b8dbd73f36e90c02b2605401f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for trinque with note: coder formerly known as undata; deedbot maintainer
trinque: mats: get your blowtorch too
decimation: so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade?
☟︎ bitstein: pete_dushenski: midwit-level analysis of AI aside, I wish they had explored Nathan's fear of his own invention more. I also thought that it ended two minutes later than it should have.
pete_dushenski: decimation for the same reason that cnn and the rest of the sideline jockeys report on news. they dun make it. just talk about it.
pete_dushenski: bitstein interesting. i was pleasantly surprised that ex machina ended where it did.
pete_dushenski: the movie was actually pretty tight for something made in the past 5 years.
decimation: pete_dushenski: I guess, but they are supposed to be running - a market?
pete_dushenski: decimation and obama is supposed to be president of the free world.
decimation: does your local grocery store display the spot price of tuna in tsukiji?
bitstein: pete_dushenski: agreed. I'm glad I went to the theater to see it. Not many movies worth the trip anymore.
mod6: holy shit gnupg v2 is bizzare! X_X
☟︎ decimation: pete_dushenski: are you in calgary? I've heard they have the 'chinook winds' there
pete_dushenski: decimation i'm in edmonton, but what you've heard is true
pete_dushenski: calgary is a good bit more temperate than edmonton (300km further north) as a result of the chinook winds
pete_dushenski: bitstein it definitely yielded stimulating conversation, even if it had some holes in the plot and storyline
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.pete_dushenski.3:c98198ca05e3d0fbae176f4dd3d4c57d69ab18ddf0bb904993b5394155e8bfaa
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for pete_dushenski from 2 to 3 with note: prolific writer and traveler of the world
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39307 @ 0.00029176 = 11.4682 BTC [+]
mod6: yikes! well, that confirms it, not that i was ever going to use gnupg v2 anyway, but now that i've looked at the code, CERTAINLY NOT.
mod6: heheh, there are like even random '^L's in this file.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00028761 = 5.7091 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: and 'gbtc' is back down to $29. for 'approximately' 0.1 btc.
pete_dushenski: still a healthy premium but also about half what it was in the first few manic days of trading.
BingoBoingo: Today was the day of the planting of ornamental amaranths (Celosia). See cazalla I'm totally planting edible plants if I want to eat like the world's desperately poor!
☟︎ ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose. << whattabout Fury Road?
pete_dushenski: it's rare that i see a mainstream flick, ex machina was definitely an exception.
pete_dushenski: furious 7 was the last, before that i dun even remember.
pete_dushenski: i'm more of a comedy man myself, but there aren't really 'modern releases' in this genre that aren't animated.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.gnnr:206844c78527cf3ce6cb27be9da39dc925da14b231de91645151ea1dae55c5e9
assbot: Successfully unrated gnnr
ben_vulpes: ah i do enjoy the odd kids' movie, but those are largely action movies as well
bitstein: The Lego Movie was absolutely fantastic.
ben_vulpes: <decimation> so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade? << "price signal" is necessary for securities.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.gavmatic.1:f816f77aa8eb6a0413d5a888793ee7bb0f27c041908de5885003e5fb510ee6fe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52200 @ 0.00027731 = 14.4756 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> <pete_dushenski> looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose. << whattabout Fury Road? << No One's going to talk about the blantant pro-Doge propaganda in Age of Ultron?
gavmatic: yes it's just some of my ramblings, and a couple projects need to update thanks danielpbarron
decimation: ben_vulpes: right but the 'price signal' comes from - you know - trading?
decimation: or is the 'price signal' one of those things usg can will into existance?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65100 @ 0.00028362 = 18.4637 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26638 @ 0.00029101 = 7.7519 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Have to take that timestamp on a bit of faith since... git didn't exist yet
BingoBoingo: gavmatic: Hang around a bit and maybe think about submitting some pieces to qntra?
mod6: BingoBoingo: yeah, probably was ported 2x since then would be my guess; first from CVS to SVN then from SVN to GIT
trinque: all hail glorious corporate HR department mothering
mod6: asciilifeform: naw, im searching for it.
mod6: i see one here as old as 1.2.0
gavmatic: ftp://ftp.gnupg.org/gcrypt/historic/
mod6: ftp://ftp.ring.gr.jp/pub/net/gnupg/gnupg/
trinque: I'm spelunking in the wayback machine for shasums or something
tidus: Is bitcoin safe from obama?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110200 @ 0.00028278 = 31.1624 BTC [-]
tidus: I love my nexus 6 and nexus 9
tidus: No meowmix is on 4g smartphone
trinque: asciilifeform: if you end up opening your treasure chest please deedbot- the sha256sums
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00027731 = 3.4109 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69704 @ 0.00028526 = 19.8838 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: BingoBoingo: lol bullfrogs are hardcore
mod6: ok, so gnupg v2 relies on libgcrypt to generate the keys, i finally found the code: dpaste.com/3106AJC.txt Seems that it does the same thing as v1 when doing the Euler totient.
mod6: there's a link at the top of that paste to where I found it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66450 @ 0.00027796 = 18.4704 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148602 @ 0.0002852 = 42.3813 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <decimation> [01:51] or is the 'price signal' one of those things usg can will into existance? << are you familiar with the "winkdex"?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40350 @ 0.00027934 = 11.2714 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: 'But she added the uses of hashtags such as "kill all white men" on her personal account were "in-jokes and ways that many people in the queer feminist community express ourselves".' << gotta love these people. "when you make jokes i don't understand and therefore piss me off, i round up a hate squad and get you fired. when i make jokes, it's in-group solidarity and YOU CAN'T SAY ANYHTING ABOUT IT"
decimation: ben_vulpes: I'm familiar with the idea that exists. no idea how it is calculated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 347650 @ 0.00027573 = 95.8575 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: decimation: you're not allowed to know!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.00028952 = 7.0498 BTC [+] {3}
gribble: herbijudlestoids was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 41 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <herbijudlestoids> brb.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 175700 @ 0.00027194 = 47.7799 BTC [-] {3}
hanbot: ben_vulpes yeah i'd be happy to find a better way to do that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74550 @ 0.00028616 = 21.3332 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182800 @ 0.00027053 = 49.4529 BTC [-] {4}
mats: gossipd would be pretty good for cnc servers
punkman: " allows a man-in-the-middle attacker to downgrade vulnerable TLS connections to 512-bit export-grade cryptography"
ben_vulpes: hanbot: specifically the part i found amusing was the closing </code> tag at the top of the document and the opening <code> tag at the bottom
punkman: how many downgrade attacks do they need to have before they cut out the stupid modes?
ben_vulpes: trinque: dpaste with patch vanished. plz to turdalize.
trinque: ben_vulpes: oh the dieharder thing?
trinque: the real solution is apparently unfucking dieharder more broadly
trinque: it diddles glibc internal preprocessor flags, so on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112100 @ 0.00026797 = 30.0394 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: "The key facet of the OS X audio I/O model involves predictive timing mechanisms. Instead of requiring the driver to message an application directly when an I/O cycle has completed, the timing mechanisms enable the Audio HAL to predict when the cycle will complete." << wowee
mats: writing a driver are we
ben_vulpes: maybe fuck it, record an audio file and nom those bits?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00028347 = 7.0301 BTC [+]
isaackl: I was reading the epic conversation with justJanne
isaackl: Figured since I've actually read a decent amount of trilema.com and the b-a logs I should finally join the chan
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:42:17; asciilifeform: re: '21' etc >> 'The cornerstone of the strategy as presented would have been the release of consumer products that would turn power from wall sockets into bitcoin through the widespread dissemination of bitcoin mining chips.' << -somebody- clearly reads the 2013 #b-a logs.
isaackl: They keep derping about 'Bitcoin is a protocol'/internet-of-things craziness
isaackl: A bit at odds with their plan to leach electricity off consumers for mining
isaackl: Is there 'bitcoin is a protocol' stuff a cynical ploy
isaackl: Or do they actually believe that stuff and know are desperately looking to put their VC bezzlebucks to good use
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59385 @ 0.00027331 = 16.2305 BTC [-]
isaackl: I.e., how many of the VC-funded "crypocurrency! blockchain!" startups have realised the optimal move is simply to hoard bitcoin?
ben_vulpes: isaackl: see the copious historical threads on how fiat-backed forays into bitcoin are more-or-less raiding parties for the US Treasury
isaackl: ben_vulpes: "Buterin's waterfall", etc?
isaackl: I would still bet that 95% of bitcoin startup guys are true believers
isaackl: So who are the 5%, how has USG compromised them
ben_vulpes: the waterfall was the windmill-tilt at driving the price to zero
ben_vulpes: are you familiar with the notion of "useful idiots"?
isaackl: 21.co (and their a16z backers) on paper seem too smart to be useful idiots
ben_vulpes: are you familiar with the buckshot approach to "investment" common in startuplandia?
isaackl: And if Balaji is a USG shill he's a damn good actor
☟︎ isaackl: Yeah, I figured that as the most likely null hypothesis
ben_vulpes: dude the entire vc space is incredibly cynical
ben_vulpes: overt "greater fool theory" investments everywhere.
ben_vulpes: 21 doesn't pass the even-barely-making-sense test.
ben_vulpes: the days of thousand+ coin scams are nowhere near past us, they're just denominated in dollars now.
punkman: 21 seems like a reasonable chumpatron to me
isaackl: Indeed, my guess was Balaji raised on buzzword bingo (blockchain technologee! IoT!) and then groped around for an actual plan
isaackl: Last gig was freelancing for another startup (curiously, also backed by a16z and qualcomm). Their big product was an Android emulator, lots of users, crazy schemes to try and monetize them
isaackl: "cynical" but also, in the long-run, impractical
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.isaackl.1:d0dd779d88427861d58d13a6e07d75fbf1db8ea67e2735938e6bce91f97a517f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for isaackl with note: new startupfounder
isaackl: Though I'm not a "startup founder"
Adlai: but are you a ninja?
isaackl: I'm just derping around in Thailand, riding motorbikes, and reading up on finance, cryptography and bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124000 @ 0.00028202 = 34.9705 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118966 @ 0.00028265 = 33.6257 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: isaackl: what kinds of businesses do you have your eyes on?
isaackl: Well, taking the thesis that the real value of bitcoin is as an inflation hedge, and that funds will increasingly flow into bitcoin as people realise this
isaackl: (i.e., after a few more reward halvings mean less coin is being dumped on the market by miners, speculators have been burned enough times that more coin is held by long-term investors and volatility drops a bit)
isaackl: Sensible bitcoin businesses are those that increase the value of btc as an investment (not user adoption or transaction volume or anything like that
ben_vulpes: a sensible btc business makes bitcoins for its owners
☟︎ ben_vulpes: nobody can do anything to increase the value of btc as an investment. it's here, it's queer, nobody's changing it.
ben_vulpes: where'd the 55 yo steelworker get off to
gribble: justJanne was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 16 hours, 8 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <justJanne> Anyway, I'm sorry, but I don't have much time arguing with people like you stupidly about fictional politics.
isaackl: Hypothetical example: a hyper-secure bitcoin wallet that's easy enough for a Warren Buffet to use. Maybe not actually possible, but if it existed, much more wealth would flow into bitcoin, no?
ben_vulpes: it's late, sense of humor got burned out at tango tonite
mircea_popescu: so why are you derping about various obscure purposes ? let it be.
mircea_popescu: if you can do something useful, do it. if not, relax and watch the show.
mircea_popescu: trick question, wasn't one per se. but the idea is why the fuck do you think you're having ideas ?
mircea_popescu: leaving alone how "concrete idea" is a contradiction in terms.
mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.
☟︎ isaackl: This is indeed why I spend my time right now just researching
isaackl: OK, unlike justJanne I'm very willing to have my youthful derpiness forcefully removed
trinque: ben_vulpes: hoard ye all PDFs that can be found!
isaackl: My reasoning was, there's multiple candidates to unseat the USD. RMB, Gold, BTC
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yeah i'm going to find her photo and then doxx her
mircea_popescu: isaackl what's this, like an exam of sorts ? the heavenly throne is holding a vote to replace the old usd with a spiffy young fellow ?
isaackl: Currency is a schelling point. People with lots of USD start buying bitcoin, eventually there's a runaway effect
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes intel has her photo, at 16 and current. looks a little tranny.
ben_vulpes: poor thing, no wonder she's spending her life in my little pony chans
isaackl: No, just the aggregate decisions of people with lots of USD. If 60% choose to buy gold and 40% choose to buy btc
mircea_popescu: it's the blessing of suck, you know ? very beautiful (and i mean, VERY, stunner beautiful) chicks develop early adolescence dementia because of all the insane sexual attention they get and don't really want, need, or know what to do with.
mircea_popescu: very smart chicks develop the same, because of the same, only different but in the end the same.
mircea_popescu: isaackl the idea being that your representation of this thing is manufactured for the needs of representation. it's what they call a didacticism, with no actual connection to reality. bad way to think.
isaackl: Then gold will quite possibly win the runaway effect. The gold mining rate is a constant 1.5% or so a year, so post a few more reward halvings bitcoin has the advantage
gribble: Current Blocks: 357233 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 1614 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47459292440.3 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227
mircea_popescu: isaackl come up with the formula for bitcoin inflation, i'm curious.
ben_vulpes: "this coordinate system is highly unportable, and it always ended up being an intermediate stage to some other coordinate system. Thus this coordinate system has been exorcised and should be avoided in the future. JPM 1-29-91" << i am actually growing to love software archaeology
isaackl: mircea_popescu: OK, to connect it to reality. Sovereign wealth fund, has a lot of USD. Realises USG is shaky and wants to diversify. How do they decide how much to allocate to gold or bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yup. cultural archeology is the superset, antrhopology being the application. it's what the wise do with their time.
isaackl: mirce_popescu: 50% mined between 2009 and first reward halving, halves after each reward halving
ben_vulpes: my problem is finding the things that fit in my head
isaackl: What is this, a Google interview?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin inflation over an interval equals the mined coins over that interval divided by the average monetary mass during that interval plus the percent change over that interval.
mircea_popescu: Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227 << that thing is the last term.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin nominal inflation may be whatever it may be, but its REAL inflation is always zero.
mircea_popescu: obviously before bitcoin nobody even understood that there is ANOTHER kind of real inflation, and thus therefore the real inflation from before is actually yet another kind of nominal inflation
isaackl: Because the mining rate is known in advance and already priced in?
ben_vulpes: difference between what one expects the monetary base to do and what it's actually doing?
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this given here to underscore the fact that this shit is really fucking complex, to the point of excluding most specialists, let alone amateurs.
isaackl: Damn you're like a Zen master. You need a stick
isaackl: Anyway, all I was getting to is that in the long run, even gold is softer than bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00029184 = 18.561 BTC [+] {3}
isaackl: And in the universe where everyone with USD is a hyper-rational optimal investor, bitcoin takes over.
isaackl: Clearly not this universe. And gold has the advantage that people have millenia of experience securing physical things. Bitcoin can be more secure than gold, if you know what you're doing. But people lose wallets, forget passwords, choose crackable keys, etc
isaackl: Not a problem with bitcoin
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, for the journos and other news fiends watching the log : i came to a resolution of a major sticking point re the rsa factorisation thing, large article coming in a few hours.
isaackl: But is a problem for people considering using it.
ben_vulpes: big, obvious, easily walked off with by your local government.
isaackl: ben_vulpes: yeah. another pro to btc
ben_vulpes: assuming that you can even amass a quantity of the real stuff, and aren't playing with paper.
ben_vulpes: besides, securing physical things comes down to guns.
mircea_popescu: the monopoly on violence problem makes everyone unable to actually hold gold.
isaackl: What I'm getting to is, if you can make a secure wallet that's easy to use for, say, the peter schiffs of the world, that increases the demand for bitcoin, no?
mircea_popescu: isaackl you really think i depend on you to make me the tools that the universe requires for my survival ?
ben_vulpes: what's scaring people off (which is unimportant, but let's pretend for a moment) is the horrendous shitpile that the bitcoin source actually is.
mircea_popescu: what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ?
isaackl: To be clear, I wasn't proposing to make such a thing.
ben_vulpes: isaackl: your 'wallet' experiment also suffers from the inescapable existence of ease of use and security of cryptographic goods at opposite poles.
isaackl: ben_vulpes: indeed. even smart people fuck this shit up
ben_vulpes: the only way to get good at it is to do it.
ben_vulpes: as with dance, sex, wine, etc. skin in the game as a prerequisite for competence.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28720 @ 0.00029211 = 8.3894 BTC [+]
isaackl: what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ? < Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more
isaackl: Improve security of cryptographic goods, demand for bitcoin goes up
ben_vulpes: dude it takes a day to set up a rock solid btc infrastructure
ben_vulpes: if you don't have a day to do it correctly, you don't need to be in bitcoin badly enough
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 01:11:02; BingoBoingo: Today was the day of the planting of ornamental amaranths (Celosia). See cazalla I'm totally planting edible plants if I want to eat like the world's desperately poor!
ben_vulpes: "generas unique design makes it possible to make logic changes and feature enhancements to it on the fly without disrupting day-to-day operations of your users" << asciilifeform but how?
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 07:23:40; ben_vulpes: a sensible btc business makes bitcoins for its owners
isaackl: Gambling is rational if it's one of the rare games like poker where you can get an edge. Hard to design games like that, you need to convince the fish they can win too
isaackl: mircea_popescu: yeah. In which case you're basically selling entertainment
davout: mircea_popescu: unless martingale1!!1
davout: which goes back to convincing the fish they can get an edge
davout: imo it's the only thing that makes the dice games profitable, the endless supply of martingale-chumps
isaackl: Yeah. Poker is great at that, fishy play gets you the occasional exciting big win. Fishy play is -ev of course, but high variance
isaackl: So on a table with 2 sharks and 6 fish, 2 fish will win a lot, the sharks and house will consistently make a little, and 4 fish will lose
isaackl: Online poker eventually saw an accumulation of sharks and the fish left
isaackl: And some fish just love to gamble. I used to do marketing for the mobile-slots chumpatron, humorously people pay real money but they can't cash out real money
isaackl: But the virtual gambling kick is enough
mircea_popescu: davout hey, the first math class that pays for itself.
mircea_popescu: isaackl wait. the stupid "X Y Z" themed slot machines in ipad store ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18934 @ 0.00028905 = 5.4729 BTC [-]
isaackl: mircea_popescu: yep. Android only these days
isaackl: Biggest money-making gaming genre on the play store
mircea_popescu: why not draw the thing on paper and win all the time ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 174000 @ 0.00027518 = 47.8813 BTC [-]
isaackl: My personal theory was it's similar psychology to RPGs, clicker games, even strategy games a little bit. You're constantly chasing advnatages which let you chase advantages, etc
isaackl: So people playing slots aren't trying to win so they can buy stuff. They want to win so they get more gambling tokens
cazalla: they tried to ban em down under but no luck
cazalla: pokies ipad games are popular with the kids though
cazalla: must be a different type of addict who plays them, i can't imagine your typical gambler playing them seeing there is no moment of win/loss
isaackl: mircea_popescu: what can I say, maybe they have no purpose, only dopamine causes
mircea_popescu: isaackl i think they're too advanced for my puny brain
isaackl: We targeted women in their 50s and 60s in places like Florida, if that makes sense
isaackl: FB lets you do things like target cigarette smokers. Who says it's not useful...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60050 @ 0.00027518 = 16.5246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88850 @ 0.00028146 = 25.0077 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: a leading poker bot takes 12 TB of compressed data
isaackl: mircea_popescu: very much so.
mircea_popescu: ok, here's the deal : bitbet has a referral system, where one gets 1% of the value of bets made by referrals.
mircea_popescu: you get a 1btc budget, your job is to get > 1 btc in referrals over a month.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23050 @ 0.00028692 = 6.6135 BTC [+]
isaackl: ok. online marketing for this kind of thing is usually about finding an under-exploited channel.
isaackl: what are people currently doing for bitbet referrals,how much low-hanging fruit has been plucked?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88355 @ 0.00028146 = 24.8684 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i would guess 90% of all marketing is happening on 8chan via mike_c s banners
isaackl: The only banner I see links to trilema? But yeah, ifhe 8chan ads are fairly new, there's probably a ton of optimising can be done
mircea_popescu: and yes there's probably a ton of work that can be done. just needs someone competent to do it.
adlai: will establish the referral cookie for a month or so
isaackl: 1Bum3oXxbCLUg54snyL6rmBz7vRBuPUr6G
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 07:29:53; mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.
adlai: the world according to 1bum
isaackl: mircea_popescu: and how do you prefer to communicate? all through the channel?
mircea_popescu: i prefer to not communicate lol. do your job, report the methodology and results once you're done. you got a blog ?
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89600 @ 0.00028802 = 25.8066 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73171 @ 0.00028069 = 20.5384 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: hey isaackl, i know this one weird tip if you need some help
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123100 @ 0.0002927 = 36.0314 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00028246 = 12.8237 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26577 @ 0.00028246 = 7.5069 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51050 @ 0.00028246 = 14.4196 BTC [-]
davout: mircea_popescu: it's on hn, let's watch the ranking pattern
davout: so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00028246 = 6.6519 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: since I saw this clip, i always try to mispronounce it, if i remember on time.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell justjanne Raphael Nicolai Fabian Randschau (Uni Kiel) <rra-squee-informatik.uni-kiel.de> top keks.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171573 @ 0.00027958 = 47.9684 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: logs mostly but other stuff that runs on same box is included
davout: number 23 : "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" <<< !!1
☟︎ davout: "debian.sur5r.net Archive Automatic Signing Key"
☟︎ davout: "Apple Product Security"
mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.
☟︎ davout: but these are keys that simply -declare- this as an UID right?
mircea_popescu: dja want me to publish the actual archive as spit out by the test ?
davout: not sure i'd know how to exploit it
davout: might be interesting to have a table with the fingerprints matched with the uids you list
mircea_popescu: kinda left it as it is so people can independently check.
mircea_popescu: it's all a pgp keyserver archive download + python script away
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44790 @ 0.00027518 = 12.3253 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133494 @ 0.00027886 = 37.2261 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76355 @ 0.00027886 = 21.2924 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:51:47; davout: number 23 : "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" <<< !!1
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:52:46; davout: "debian.sur5r.net Archive Automatic Signing Key"
Apocalyptic: (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form) // except postscript maybe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 288400 @ 0.00027025 = 77.9401 BTC [-] {5}
kakobrekla: are you going to automate the display of results or will it be a full time job?
kakobrekla: nah, taking in account the latest development, cosmic ray can alter all grades from a single student.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00027886 = 16.2297 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all.
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 12:54:33; asciilifeform: until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw. << thx!
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ? << correct.
mircea_popescu: THATs what needs to be tested. pgpwin and what else was there ?
mod6: and 19 broken moduli nao
davout: aaand the HN story is at... wait for it... 3 points
davout: mircea_popescu: i don't know, i really don't hang around hn very much
davout: mircea_popescu: on osx you can either build GPG, or use this macgpg stuff, i use the former, so can't really help here
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all. << nothing specific yet. although the charts are interesting. Process Switches hit 4k before going to zero.
mircea_popescu: davout apparently "it’s impossible to downvote anything on Hacker News". i guess story just isn't interesting.
assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 19:23:18; davout: HN now displays "Why Japanese Toilets Are Failing in America (2013)" higher than this
mircea_popescu: anyway, enough stuff in phuctor's wake to keep dozens of crypto researchers busy for monthys if not years.
mircea_popescu: it's the equivalent of a tractor that just plowed through virgin land. all those delicious worms!
mircea_popescu: davout 138.More factored RSA keys, and assorted other considerations (trilema.com)3 points by davout 2 hours ago | discuss << it's greyed out, so i guess it got neg'd somehow.
mircea_popescu: cat trilema-20may2015.txt | grep -c "more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations"
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't be too worried about it, it's probably on everyone's im
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 35015 @ 0.00009 = 3.1514 BTC [-]
davout: asciilifeform: any recommendations on general purpose cryptography books?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57717 @ 0.00027414 = 15.8225 BTC [-]
davout: i can't read books on a screen
davout: gonna get the schneier one to get started
mircea_popescu: iguess someone really should write a reasonable, 500 page, college degree (any field, proper) required to read crypto overview
davout: so wrt the schneier book i see 'second edition', and '20th anniversary edition'
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 18:42:29; jurov: both sides of that discussion made me cringe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118194 @ 0.0002731 = 32.2788 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude that zdnet article was probably the most idiotic thing i read today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they readily admit "we took register piece and translated"
mircea_popescu: threatpost.ru ? 0 comments everywhere, i never heard of it etc.
mircea_popescu: "Dennis Fisher · Michael Mimoso · Christopher Brook · Brian Donohue · Anne Saita."
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 19:13:16; jurov: ANARCHY MUST BE ENFORCED AT ALL COSTS
vampyr: true anarchy comes from within outside!
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 19:21:04; decimation: mircea seems to credit the german geography for why 'nordic freedom' 'seems to work'. but I suggest it is the people themselves - having been beaten by the romans for centuries, and then forced by the church to mate outside their immediate family, they developed a concept of 'kinship' beyond L2 cousins
mircea_popescu: a) god hath decided to give free herring out in the scania sounds. consequently, swedes now have a kingdom
mircea_popescu: b) god hath moved on, so now five centuries of hard labour and being basically as dirt-poor and pan troglodytus as the russian mujik.
mircea_popescu: c) god comes back in the shape of Kennedy and the Fulda gap. herring is being airlifted into berlin
mircea_popescu: for as long as the free herring still lasts, they can run around derping about how they meditatively comprehensified the deep secrets of the universe.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: predictably, it'll be something utterly retarded like "stalin did it wrong, and marx was nordiccounntries.jpg anyway".
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea what west germany was thinking when it allowed the scumbags to join civilisation without first hanging every "intellectual" of the eastern school.
mircea_popescu: instead of parading them naked through the streets with a "i was a fucktard and am now sorry" thing around their neck, they let them sit around for twenty years coming up with reasons as to how their idiocy "wasn't really all that bad".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: one only needs to look at the czech commies post ru invasion to understand exactly how abject people actually are.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:17; asciilifeform: Officially, all Soviet representatives regard these parasites with touching feelings of friendship, but privately they call them 'shit-eaters' ('govnoed'). It is difficult to say where this expression originated, but it is truly the only name they deserve. The use of this word has become so firmly entrenched in Soviet embassies that it is impossible to imagine any other name for these people. A conver
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:18; asciilifeform: ght run as follows: Today we've got a friendship evening with shit-eaters', or Today we're having some shit-eaters to dinner. Prepare a suitable menu'.'
mircea_popescu: (for the record : the life of a smerd, like that of a kholop, was worth 5 grivna. that's about enough metal to make a decent shovel - roughly speaking the smartphone of the time)
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 21:22:35; *: ascii_field pictures slaves sweating
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:35:12; williamdunne: Should be 24/7, on an actual server and is cloaked
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:45:37; trinque: I'll negrate people who abuse it
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:50:05; jurov: if someone uses temporary voice to resubmit existing deed 1000 times, deedbot has nothing to say about it?
assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 23:33:00; asciilifeform: (this could underplay the effect of 'bastards' however)
Helvetik: Sorry, I juste speak a little english. I'm here for to talk with davout
davout: Helvetik: if you really don't speak that much english mebbe join #bitcoin-fr, will be less painful for you :-)
davout: fluffypony: on IRC? nice! still up for the monero meeting tomorrow?
davout: fluffypony: the electric plugs are there only for the show on regular french trains
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139680 << speaking of this, am I the only one nonplussed by all this "we use <<best practices>> fixed exponent" bs ? it's an unavoidalbe magic number , okay, but it's tyhe sort that should eminently be a knob for the user. a proper gpg would have e user-settable at the key generation phase (with 65536+1 as a default, sure)
☝︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:29:41; mod6: take a look at this:
http://dpaste.com/0SQPBKC.txt Is there any reason when allocating the space for p & q to do Eulers totient they would initialize the space with 'p' and 'p', instead of 'p' & 'q'?
☟︎ fluffypony: mircea_popescu: nah, some interesting guys but they're all just trying to do gambling stuff in Romania and elsewhere
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100200 @ 0.00026766 = 26.8195 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28369 @ 0.00027388 = 7.7697 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> maybe i wanna use e = 2686977, whose business is it. << i was looking at this yesterday too, had the same impression. mpi_set_ui( e, 65537);
mod6: by the end of the night i was digging into prime selection. gnupg does fast fermat checks in several places, but im starting to wonder if it wouldn't also be benificial to just check against a list of "Carmichael numbers"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95300 @ 0.00028287 = 26.9575 BTC [+]
mod6: lol, or why not just use Miller-Rabin instead?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89500 @ 0.00028501 = 25.5084 BTC [+]
mod6: oh it might actually do this somewhere anyway... there are some references in the docs... although i haven't found it in the code yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155050 @ 0.00029236 = 45.3304 BTC [+] {4}
mod6: ahh, i see, you gotta pick the bases for a randomly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33031 @ 0.00028287 = 9.3435 BTC [-]
mats: unemployed life so good
mats: going to a music festival this weekend then san diego
mats: looking forward to pounding trustfund hotties on drugs
mod6: maybe its this is_prime function
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember where the fuck is that discussion about how a good hardening approach is to deviate from the toolset the attacker might reasonably expect to find is ?
☟︎ Naphex: mircea_popescu: a good attacker will do discovery, and map everything ahead of time. while there are some pluses into deviating from the toolset. they mostly come from building your own. which is going to end up better fitted for the task
Naphex: and you more knowledgeable into what runs where
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73749 @ 0.00026665 = 19.6652 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026361 = 5.2722 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up Hasimir welcome to the biggest* best** irc channel!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107950 @ 0.0002616 = 28.2397 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103300 @ 0.00025942 = 26.7981 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141849 @ 0.00026721 = 37.9035 BTC [+] {2}
Hasimir: danielpbarron, cheers ... you named it assbot?
Hasimir: well, whatever floats his boat I guess
danielpbarron: I noticed you've got a +4 in my L2 and a 0 in assbot's
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:42:58; decimation: so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade?
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:41:46; mats: gpg is broke
Hasimir: hmm, oh ratings ... I tend not to rate bots, not even mine
Hasimir: and this key crap better not invalidate my pyme work
Hasimir: that would be such a let down
Hasimir: I ported the python bindings for gpgme to py3
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:47:39; mod6: holy shit gnupg v2 is bizzare! X_X
Hasimir: meh, 2.0 is such a waste of time ... 2.1, however, comes with all manner of entertainment
mircea_popescu: Hasimir mind giving a self-intro for they such as myself that apparently know you from 3rd parties but otherwise not ?
Hasimir: it's currently in a branch of git.gnupg.org/gpgme (to be merged with master when I finish cleaning up the last of the ancient examples)
Hasimir: assuming rsa isn't screwed by then, of course ;)
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 01:19:10; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so i walk into $redacted on monday and folks compare me to pons & fleischmann. so there'll be teasing, yes.
Hasimir: no, not seriously, there's a big difference between some bunch of people with crap entropy sources and rsa being borked
Hasimir: though it it turns out to be the "you must all use openpgp cards" crowd I will laugh and laugh ...
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 16:13:53; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember where the fuck is that discussion about how a good hardening approach is to deviate from the toolset the attacker might reasonably expect to find is ?
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, a ref. to a particularly hard-line stance taken by some people on gnupg-users
ascii_field: 'how to airgap, practical guide' i think it was.
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, well, listing a hundred and something frequent posters to gnupg-users with the statement "we probably have your private key" does imply a certain degree of breakage
ascii_field: 'Just as long as you actually know what you're doing, this sort of arrangement increases the costs of attacking your setup astronomically...'
mircea_popescu: senile dementia is this sad situation when you recall what you said but not exactly nor where.
ascii_field: conan doyle in the 'sherlock holmes' stories described this
ascii_field: sorta the mental equivalent of a crowded hard disk. not quite same as senility
Hasimir: mircea_popescu, take up chess, it helps keep you sharp(er)
Hasimir: I returned to playing in order to make a good habit of it by the time senility struck in order to stave it off ... then discovered that years of IT logic paid off in unexpected ways
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00029399 = 11.9948 BTC [+]
ascii_field: was ages ago, when it was actually readable ('06-'08 or so)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00028091 = 5.6182 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Some widely deployed RSA implementations choke on big RSA public exponents. E.g. the RSA code in Windows (CryptoAPI, used by Internet Explorer for HTTPS) insists on encoding the public exponent within a single 32-bit word; it cannot process a public key with a bigger public exponent."
ascii_field: anyone know a winblowistic implementation of pgp ? as in, actually using microshit's api
ascii_field: well aye, but traditional gpg built for mingw doesn't do this
mircea_popescu: 25 ppm occurences can very well be a tiny pore in an otherwise solid implementation.
ascii_field: the lost world of winblows pgptrons, closed-source crypto, etc. will have to be vivisected, likely
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70850 @ 0.00029439 = 20.8575 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 06:57:41; isaackl: And if Balaji is a USG shill he's a damn good actor
mircea_popescu: dude, i remember the time back in 2012 when the pressure cooker wasn't on yet and all sorts of people didn't appear retarded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8182 @ 0.00028793 = 2.3558 BTC [-]
mike_c: <isaackl> Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more << hm, how does the utility of the F35 compare to how much has been spent on it?
mircea_popescu: "undergoing testing and final development by the United States"
mike_c: depends what you consider the thing. I mean, an "F35" exists, and some things on it work..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55887 @ 0.00028793 = 16.0915 BTC [-]
mats: mircea_popescu: has been built. lotsa videos around of it doin the hovering trick.
mats: does everything and sux at em all.
mircea_popescu: so 2.5k planes of 2 missiles each. the chinese only have like 10k
mircea_popescu: except of course by 10k we mean "can get up in the air at least 10k"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66469 @ 0.00029499 = 19.6077 BTC [+] {2}
mats: short take-off to hover.
mircea_popescu: maybe i miss something, but why do you want a plane to helicopter ?
mats: yeah, carriers and emergency landing zones.
mats: yeah. its stupid. design by committee.
ascii_field: the need for runway is an ancient annoyance to airplane folks
ascii_field: the attempts to do away with it - make sense
mats: osprey's not doing so good so i guess they decided to experiment more with f-35.
ascii_field: (conventional machine on runway is just as vulnerable as 'hoverer')
mircea_popescu: section 3.5 - "some servers in our scans used Java's DSA primes as p,
mircea_popescu: but mistakenly used the DSA group order q in the place of the
mircea_popescu: generator g ... This substitution of q for g is likely due to a
mircea_popescu: usability problem: the canonical ASN.1 representation of
mircea_popescu: Diffie-Hellman key exchange parameters (coming from PKCS#3) is a
mircea_popescu: sequence (p, g), while that of DSA parameters (coming from PKIX) is
mircea_popescu: (p, q, g); we conjecture that the confusion between these formats led
ascii_field: (and i'm still at a loss to craft a situation where gpg's p and q will occupy varying number of 'limbs' and lead to catastrophe in the given line)
mircea_popescu: "the electronic edge F-35 enjoys over every other tactical aircraft in the world may prove to be more important in future missions than maneuverability" << check it out, it got wifi
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28165 @ 0.00029553 = 8.3236 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32485 @ 0.00030253 = 9.8277 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: re: F-35 << "shuttle" debacle all over again
mircea_popescu: the F-35C taking 43 seconds longer than an F-16 to accelerate from Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2
mircea_popescu: "In March 2013, USAF test pilots, flying with pre-operational software that did not utilize the all-aspect infrared AAQ-37 DAS sensor, noted a lack of visibility from the F-35 cockpit during evaluation flights, which would get them consistently shot down in combat."
mircea_popescu: Defense spending analyst Winslow Wheeler concluded from flight evaluation reports that the F-35A "is flawed beyond redemption"; in response, program manager General Chris Bogdan suggested that pilots worried about being shot down should fly cargo aircraft instead.
mats: "lets ignore the guys who've been flying the most dangerous air frames in development for twenty years"
mike_c: davout:gonna get the schneier one to get started << mod6 told me to read this, it is awesome. I feel stupid for not having read it sooner.
mircea_popescu: "Even in its third iteration, the F-35’s helmet continues to show high false-alarm rates and computer stability concerns, seriously reducing pilots’ situational awareness and endangering their lives in combat;"
mircea_popescu: = the closed-source java blob they're using actually reboots in flight
BingoBoingo: The silliest thing about the F-35 clusterfuck is the US had a decent somewhat stealthier plane in the F-22 coming off the line in flyable shape and... It was too expensive. Nao it would have been cheaper.
mircea_popescu: "In all these instances, data reporting and processing rules were changed during the year for no other reason than to paint a more favorable picture. Maintenance problems were determined to be so severe that the F-35 is only able to fly twice a week."
mats: BingoBoingo: well, the F-22 and F-35 do different things.
mats: they're intended to fly tandem in combat.
mircea_popescu: mats f22 flies tues, thurs fri, and weekend f35 mon and wed -> tandem ?
BingoBoingo: mats: For some definitions of different (everything the F-35 B&C do-ish)
mod6: mike_c: hey! glad you like it :]
davout: mike_c: which edition?
davout: 20th anniversary or 2nd edition?
mike_c: I have 2nd. 20th anniversary looks like just a PR thing? not different content?
davout: alrighty, it's also cheaper on amzn
davout moves to set camp by the mailbox
davout: fluffypony: you in paris nao?
jurov: i heard f35 cannot transition from hover to forward movement
☟︎ jurov: it has to land and reconfigure itself first
ascii_field: jurov: at least downward movement still worx
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58250 @ 0.00030281 = 17.6387 BTC [+]
jurov: dunno why the haven't attached flea legs instead, would work same as vtol
ascii_field: as in, the one sold to iran 'against sanctions' with boobytrap included
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00029876 = 6.02 BTC [-]
mike_c: no.. oddly vague about that. doesn't seem to be a firing.
ben_vulpes: probably wants to spend more time with his family
mats: promoted to head cocksucker. off to DC!
mike_c: "to start his own legal and consulting firm"
bitstein: whoops, my irc chat wasn't scrolled all the way down
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00029805 = 5.2159 BTC [-]
ascii_field: 'Unpaid Intern is, as the byline properly describes, an unpaid intern. Unpaid intern is a fresh-out-of-school, wide-eyed journalism grad who thinks one day they will make it to the New York Times. In the meantime they are stuck here, so they better get used to it.'
bitstein: "Democratic state Rep. Senfronia Thompson criticized the company by saying that 'it would have been wiser if Mr. Tesla had sat down with the car dealers first.' But there is no 'Mr. Tesla' involved in the company, which is named after the late inventor Nikola Tesla and is founded and run by Elon Musk."
https://fortune.com/2015/05/18/tesla-texas/ mircea_popescu: bitstein honestly, the blowing up of the entire "car dealers" bs is pretty much the only thing i actually like about mr tesla.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13754 @ 0.00029429 = 4.0477 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139700 @ 0.0003002 = 41.9379 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47999 @ 0.00029429 = 14.1256 BTC [-]
mats: fun fact: windows 8.1 will sometimes triple fault when bugchecking when a kernel debugger is attached
davout: can someone explain to me how i'm able to malloc into existence more than 1tb, fill the first byte with some random int, and have valgrind report the massive allocated space. all this with a whopping 4gb ram and 512gb hdd?
davout: "in use at exit: 1,155,346,237,534 bytes in 1,500 blocks" <<< oO
ascii_field: davout: iirc he was tracking whole box, not bitcoind per se
mircea_popescu: notrly valgrind's problem, this. if system reports it as allocated, it's allocated as far as its concerned
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134042 @ 0.000289 = 38.7381 BTC [-] {4}
davout: fucking around with C, this confuses me
davout: i'm afraid if i try on an ec2 box i'll accidentally break the internet
ben_vulpes: <davout> i'm afraid if i try on an ec2 box i'll accidentally break the internet << "we can therefore we must"
Landgull: Oh, thank you. I don't really have anything to say, though, I'm here to listen.
Apocalyptic: anyway "factored" in this sense doesn't mean much
Apocalyptic: in the sense of finding a prime factor of a modulus that has more than 2
Apocalyptic: I mean you can get a standard 4096-bit sane RSA key, multiply N by 3 and there you go
Apocalyptic: someone "factors" it, finds the 3, but the key is still as strong as the sane one you started with
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: read mircea_popescu's latest article to learn how the bulk of the booby keys were generated
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic iirc shcneier actually was recommending e=3 (d is the private traditionally)
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: you can actually create them on your own, given the info
Apocalyptic: i'm just commenting on the first invalid subkey that was discussed
ascii_field: the result is essentially same as using a random integer as a modulus
ascii_field: i.e., likely to be pollard-rho-able and/or lenstra-able.
ascii_field: conceivably some of the resulting moduli are even... prime.
Apocalyptic: <ascii_field> conceivably some of the resulting moduli are even... prime. // would be trivial to check
ascii_field: but the reason why malefactor did this 'random' bit,
ascii_field: is almost certainly because statistically - these are -easy- to break apart.
ascii_field: and give some plausible deniability, as we saw, at least works on idiots
Apocalyptic: anyway mircea it was just to say that in this case I would call it factor only if modulus is totally broken into primes, something i've referred as full factoring, otherwise not much you can do
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: properly lenstra-ing these is certainly on the agenda
Apocalyptic: (note that this isn't even stricly a RSA key anymore)
ascii_field: violates every assumption behind hardness of rsa, yes
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, ok, would love to compare the results when you're done, i'm throwing some stuff at it atm
ascii_field: which was the intent of whoever crafted it, yes.
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, of the 19 broken moduli so far how many are actually valid subkeys ?
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: at least two, iirc, had valid sigs. The remainder divide into ones with invalid selfsigs and ones with absent ones entirely (stripped)
ascii_field: incidentally you can run the heuristic finder yourself
ascii_field: comment out the bit with 'giant exponents'
ascii_field: (these are rampant, >1300 instances alone)
ascii_field: at the moment, i would like to collect a sample of material signed with one of the -legit- keys for which a 'magic' key exists
ascii_field: and see what happens when one actually tries to verify the signature with 'magic' key (and its bizarre composite mega-exponent) as reference
hanbot: how do you know you're even seeing all/most of the magic keys? maybe they were not intended to show up in public servers, and end there through some error/leak
ascii_field: hanbot: if it isn't on sks, it isn't really public is it
hanbot: maybe this is the iceberg tip of some sort of process not really intended to be visible
ascii_field: afaik the only possible point of crafting these -was- to disseminate them publicly as spurious copies of the real thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147200 @ 0.00028083 = 41.3382 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: hanbot: and clearly the process, whatever it was, did not want to be found. but it does appear to consist of fucking with purported -public- keys and therefore intrinsically findable.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76542 @ 0.00028208 = 21.591 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic well, "totally broken". depends what you're trying to do and so on. having a known small factor is already breakage
ascii_field: given as the bulk of the samples consist of the owner's own moduli with every other 32-bit word doubled (overwriting its neighbour) - the amount of 'crafting' appears to be minimal. in this particular case (there were other breakable keys.)
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, it is breakage in the sense it reduces the apparent security, the key may still be pretty much alright
ascii_field: thing about small factors is that we have them here because the moduli are essentially random shots in the integer dark.
ascii_field: how likely is 'all right' key when shooting at random ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, you could just run a probabilistic test on it.
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: read mircea_popescu's article where litmus.py appears.
Apocalyptic: let's say I take the two secret primes of my present key
Hasimir: well, let's see there's Rob Hansen's key
Apocalyptic: I multiply then the modulus N by 3 (or any other small prime, the value doesn't matter)
☟︎ ascii_field: Apocalyptic: except that this is not how it was done
Hasimir: his key is DSA2 & El-Gamal
Apocalyptic: I submit it to phuctor, its screams "Moduli factored !"
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: bugger took every other 32-bit word and copied over neighbour.
Apocalyptic: but the key is still as strong as my original
Apocalyptic: <ascii_field> Apocalyptic: except that this is not how it was done // exactly
Hasimir: in Stan's list of "we have your private keys"
Apocalyptic: i'm just trying to show that finding a small factor is not inherently breaking the key
ascii_field: Hasimir: we only see it here if it had one or more rsa subkeys.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic finding a small factor is not inherently breaking a specially crafted key that was made to have that one small factor, yes.
Hasimir: it has an rsa signing subkey
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, as the poeple whose key you're listing probably didn't craft it this way, it's very probable that it's further broken, yes
ascii_field: Hasimir: we don't deal with the rest of it.
Hasimir: which means no getting the private cert or decryption
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> Apocalyptic finding a small factor is not inherently breaking a specially crafted key that was made to have that one small factor, yes. // this is all i was arguing :)
ascii_field: the experiment specifically concerns moduli, not keys. a key contains zero or more rsa moduli
Hasimir: ascii_field, just the signing subkey?
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic well sure, theoretical theory. but if you run a factorizing algo on any of the keys you'll see they break apart.
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: there is a reason why generating proper rsa keys is cpu-expensive
Hasimir: ascii_field, then claiming to have derived the private key is a wee bit disingenuous
Apocalyptic: and yes if found in the wild, the assumption you are making is a safe assumption
ascii_field: barring some entirely unknown and very interesting number-theoretical result, the word-doubling is overwhelmingly likely to yield an 'easy' modulus.
Hasimir: "Are you on this list ? We probably have your private key"
ascii_field: Hasimir: private key naturally would correspond to the phony key
Hasimir: alright, if it's not, what method did you use to crack el-gamal?
ascii_field: and go apply pollard rho, and lenstra, you will have the private. you don't even need us for this
mircea_popescu: the way text works is not that reader is free to make whatever assumptions he wishes and it is the responsibility of the text to explicitly dispel them
Hasimir: ok, let me see if I'm reading the article correctly
mircea_popescu: the way text works is that the reader has the job of forming a mental image that does not contradict the text.
Hasimir: you only deal with rsa, you only claim to have rsa priv keys, but you list dsa/elgamal keys as broken ...
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: he appears to be taking issue with interchangeable use of 'keys' and 'moduli'
Hasimir: this one: 0x23806BE5D6B98E10
mircea_popescu: in general, one's at liberty to create a Patented Leather Assymetric Key and give it his name
mircea_popescu: if he also has a rsa key by the same name, he will be in the list of rsa keys.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field except a modulus does not exist outside of a key.
ascii_field: Hasimir: understand, someone can create a key containing an rsa modulus of the kind described here using a modified copy of your, e.g., el gamal, key
mircea_popescu: you can create a key for obama and sks will list "obama's" key.
Hasimir: as all the president@whitehouse.gov ones prove
mircea_popescu: now, of that list, at least some are thoroughly broken
mircea_popescu: two examples are given there, each with two moduli with 8-12 digit factos known
ascii_field: Hasimir: the shenanigans exposed appear to have an intent which includes - but not necessarily limited to - passing off spurious rsa keys for various names
Hasimir: which is why you need to specify the key ids, otherwise you're spreading unnecessary panic
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:53:36; *: mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.
ascii_field: Hasimir: so far each of the cases i have examined in detail had -at least one- legit rsa modulus in subkeys
mircea_popescu: Hasimir you have read the paragraph at the beginning yes ?
ascii_field: and the panic is entirely the work of the enemy, who is passing around the idiot strawman that 'rsa was broken. oh wait, no it wasn't! disregard the whole thing!'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00027831 = 4.8008 BTC [-] {2}
Hasimir: alright then, take a crack at mine, same one as used with -otc and in my /ns info
mircea_popescu: Hasimir if it's been already processed you can see yourself the result
Hasimir: it has been, but reprocessing hasn't occurred in 2 years
mircea_popescu: Hasimir just put the pubkey in the box and it'll tell you if it has or hasn't
ascii_field: i will be very surprised when a 'proper' pubkey that some fella actually has on his own box, fails the test
mircea_popescu: ascii_field some that had only broken moduli, in pairs.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: quite a few. which is consistent with the 'random bits make terrible rsa moduli' thing.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron server's atm busy with a large computation which is why it's not answering ya
Hasimir: ascii_field, where's the code you use to run these tests anyway?
Hasimir: sqlite3 db full of keys ... ouch
Hasimir: though probably better than the sks solution
Hasimir: yeah, you might want to look at the keybox (.kbx) format used in gpg 2.1, designed to improve lookup speed with larger keyrings
Hasimir: though you'll lose all the v2 keys
Hasimir: but then we should probably lose them anyway
Hasimir: ok, these weak ones you found, have you identified a common generation program?
Hasimir: and v2 keys == pgp 2.3 to pgp 2.6(i)
Hasimir: do they all have subkeys or not?
ascii_field: Hasimir: read carefully. we do not know where they came from. but the largest class we identified so far appears to consist of carefully crafted spurious keys, made with a particular transformation of original legit ones.
Hasimir: well, that list 160 reads like regular posters to the enigmail mailing list
mircea_popescu: tbh, someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation to me sometime. fucking pseudohierarchy devoid of meaning.
Hasimir: I recognise most of the names
trinque: heh sqlite always comes up as "not fast" in conversation
trinque: I wonder if anyone ever tests this hypothesis
ascii_field: trinque: was going for 'simple' rather than 'fast'
trinque: sure, I am saying I've personally never found sqlite3 to be slow
trinque: probably comes with comparisons to key-value stores that do barely anything aside retrieve by key
trinque: ah yeah I guess it's bad at concurrent writes; that's fair
jurov: someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation << guess mr.zimmermann overengineered it and then left to rot
jurov: GNU picked it up then
davout: fluffypony: neat! never been there
davout: fluffypony: what are you keeping yourself busy with tomorrow? visiting?
fluffypony: I need to tweak the presentation a bit, so the wife will go to the spa for a couple of hours
davout: ah you took her with, nice!
fluffypony: and then we'll probably do the Louvre because we haven't been in AGES
fluffypony: yeah I know, but neither of us are terribly au fait with it, so we'll just dip our toe in;)
ascii_field: << example of someone for whom only breakable key is on sks
Apocalyptic: ascii_field, this may be more affordable to fully factor than HPA invalid's
ascii_field: Apocalyptic: as a general rule, an rsa modulus generated without regard to rules (primality testing, pollard-rho, the lot) is cheap to factor.
ascii_field: the authors of the fakes also relied on the 'plausible deniability' of using random crud rather than proper mods
Apocalyptic: well given what i've tried on that HPA's i would not fully concur here
ascii_field: for all we know, this is a straight 'dos' and no one actually knew the privates to these
ascii_field: and the purpose was to force the victims to revert to plaintext
ascii_field: there is also mircea_popescu's 'magic flag' hypothesis.
Apocalyptic: I guess maybe e isn't even prime with phi(N) on those
Apocalyptic: and as such there is no private to even begin with
jurov: 's got a "new" n900... after just a few hours it's clear why nokia had to be gutted
jurov: ascii_field: you ever had it?
jurov: true one, not something android-bastardized
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109700 @ 0.00027506 = 30.1741 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: i guess it's a device osmocom-gsm hackers use
jurov: but if i'm ever getting into such uber-illegal territory, i'm not advertising it here
jurov: i stand corrected, it's not this one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76410 @ 0.00027383 = 20.9234 BTC [-]
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, somehow pgpdump refuses to print info about the invalid subkey, or at least I don't see the keyid referenced the way I see it for the master key and the signature packets
Apocalyptic: I suppose it's the same as the master one though, so this situation can't happen since e is itself a prime
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, rho pollard plus countless iterations of ECM for reasonable bounds assuming there is a 20-30 prime digit factor in the modulus reminder
Apocalyptic: I guess i'm gonna have to keep increasing it for a while
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic you know it'd be halpful if youactually counted them / documented the attempts
Apocalyptic: I will post a report if it leads to something, or if somebody wants it
Apocalyptic: this should find any prime factor under *30* digits even
Apocalyptic: after 430 runs the probability of error is something like 1/e if I remember and if this doc is correct
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57490 @ 0.00026437 = 15.1986 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no, you run it multiple times because it's probabilistic.
mircea_popescu: for some reason i was thinking you're doing rabin-miller
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12969 @ 0.0002807 = 3.6404 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: Bram Cohen: It's difficult for me to convey just how profoundly idiotic the BitShare mining chip is.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7636 @ 0.0002807 = 2.1434 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114739 @ 0.00027428 = 31.4706 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103500 @ 0.00026787 = 27.7245 BTC [-] {3}