⏐︎ 30885
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36894 @ 0.0002822 = 10.4115 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17450 @ 0.00028461 = 4.9664 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pogo_crate.jpg ☟︎
asciilifeform: ^ in today.
asciilifeform: there's no shortage of'em here.
BingoBoingo: Beautiful
asciilifeform: (ordered - tues.)
BingoBoingo spent some time today looking longingly looking at sun blade 150's (model I did not know existed or had forgotten about) on Ebay.
asciilifeform: lol, why?!
asciilifeform: though a 'sun ray' might make an interesting openbsd box
BingoBoingo: Does the sun ray have any compute power of its own? Blade 150 looked interesting because somewhat portable pizza box form, IDE drives, and good old VGA monitor hookups.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it has some ultra-miniature sparc iirc
BingoBoingo: Ah
asciilifeform: tiny little thing
asciilifeform: sorta like a 'pogo'
asciilifeform: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Blade_(workstation)#/media/File:Sunblade1500.jpg << lol 'coke' machine
assbot: Sun Blade (workstation) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/197UKTh )
BingoBoingo: Blade 150 seemed to offer some compute power while also offering more EM shielding than its Blade 100 bredecessor
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I liked that form factor. Just looking at the models that slice a zero off of the model number atm.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the most 'shieldy' box i've ever personally owned was a hp 'visualize'
asciilifeform: http://karilavikka.fi/gfx/sekalaista_tauhkaa/hp/j5600/151_5183.JPG << not mine but very similar
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/197V6sZ )
asciilifeform: emf mesh behind all openings
BingoBoingo: It's a beautiful thing
asciilifeform: everything, incl. mb, slid out on rails
asciilifeform: all or mostly all steel, mad-heavy
asciilifeform: the power supply also slid out
asciilifeform: (at one point had spare, old one - exploded capacitor, filled dorm floor with smoke)
asciilifeform: funny thing, it sat in my old flat for... 7 years, in the kitchen closet, filled with rat shit
asciilifeform: when moving last year - left it on the kerb. and someone picked it up...
BingoBoingo: I dunno what it is with your flavor of swamp and rats
asciilifeform: what, where BingoBoingo lives there are no rats ?
BingoBoingo: Maybe here there just isn't enough of a niche for them between mice and racoons
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Southern Illinois, about 30 miles east of East StL
asciilifeform: huge rats here, straight out of the ratfacecage scene in '1984'
asciilifeform: at night they walk, you can see'em
asciilifeform: incidentally i often wonder if the ratfacecage is still in fashion somewhere
BingoBoingo: I've only here ever seen rats purchased from petstore.
asciilifeform: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--x5WK3_Zo--/fzogcaspzsoynnfdqeg2.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CCmg9d )
BingoBoingo: At night walking I see plenty of cats, coons, groundhogs, foxes, and coyotes. Haven't ever identified a rat
asciilifeform: ^ from, i think, one of the film versions
BingoBoingo: I think I may have seen that version
BingoBoingo: We've also got fucktons of squirrels
asciilifeform: https://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5924387/il_fullxfull.223598961.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CCmwoE )
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pogo_crate.jpg << woah!
mod6: <+funkenstein_> i tested the 0.5.3 build on an old ubuntu box, built like a charm << nice! thanks for the info
BingoBoingo: Maybe here the rats know to stay in the farm fields, but... They don't seem endemic here like the mice do.
BingoBoingo: Mice plainly exist here get into the birdseed and shit all over the garage.
asciilifeform: l0l, looking for the r4tc4g3 found - http://www.protogermanic.com/2012/02/power-tends-to-corrupt-absolute-power.html
asciilifeform: ^ mega-lulzatron
cazalla: bloody mother in laws who give their daughters the idea that you need a new car simply because the old one is looking old (despite being fucking fine mechanically wise)
asciilifeform: waiwat
hanbot: maybe she wants the old one.
cazalla: hanbot, nope, she has a merc to drive around in, mcmansion etc (all paid for by the long dead but rich father in law mind you)
hanbot: so then maybe she could buy you a new one.
cazalla: if there is anything that gets my blood pressure sky rocketing, it's people tell me or someone close to me how i should spend money on useless shit
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Are they interested in purchasing the Saturn of Supremacy?
cazalla: BingoBoingo, god forbid she drive around in anything less than brand new!
BingoBoingo: cazalla: But battle tested.
asciilifeform: cazalla clearly has insufficient reputation for poverty ☟︎
hanbot: for australia or generally?
cazalla: asciilifeform, you have no idea i tells ya
asciilifeform: cultivate this reputation. ☟︎
asciilifeform: it may well save your skin ☟︎
BingoBoingo: This Saturn sedan has forded roads deeper than the floor of the passenger compartment, traveled to the other side of a divided freeway, and still burns fuel like a miser
asciilifeform: possibly the most dangerous animal to be in the lands of usg (and au, as i understand, is a kind of target practice range for usg idiocies) is the fella with just enough to be worth skinning, but three or four zeroes short of mircea_popescu-esque atomic dirigible where he can hit back ☟︎
cazalla: even if bitcoin was 10k per, a brand new car is an extravagance i would not spring for
asciilifeform: *endangered animal
asciilifeform: (rather than dangerous)
BingoBoingo: Brand new car is the worst possible expense in the Anglophone world. Nearly half the sticker price goes straight to the fire.
asciilifeform: was about to say
asciilifeform: i'd rather fill a suitcase with benjies & publicly burn it
asciilifeform: than buy a new car
BingoBoingo: If it came to replacing my current vehicle I'd prolly start looking at used police crown vics
mircea_popescu: mod6 got tons more of thems.
BingoBoingo: Question: Is chav capitalized or not in proper usage? ☟︎
asciilifeform: mod6 is passing'em out or running personally
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82160 @ 0.00028555 = 23.4608 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo wonders if Big endian bitcoind will happen before all of the blockchain passes the 127 GB most interesting of such machines are limited to.
BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr How goes Big endian bitcoind
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo is welcome to build it bigendian now
Luke-Jr: I believe it's merged.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I need working hardware. In the past I've treated such bexen as too disposable. Ingnored fans cries for help.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Cool.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: remember http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/kirkwood/assets/FS_88F6180_9x_6281_OpenSource.pdf ?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1980b4w )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'pogo' contains a switchable-endianness micro
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Is this on pre or post leveldb?
cazalla: asciilifeform, my reputation for poverty IRL might not match with what goes on here simply because the one thing i will spend money on is food/drink.. every unit i've rented furnished with second hand goods, i've purchased clothing from the same places (mind you, have not purchased clothing in at least 2 years)
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: post of course. LevelDB is part of the Bitcoin consensus protocol now.
asciilifeform: how does a db end up thought of as part of the protocol ? ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: LevelDB bitcoin doesn't build on my favored *nix at all.
Luke-Jr: afaik only the guys here are trying to maintain any sort of pre-leveldb codebase now ☟︎
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: no? :o
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: it is necessarily
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: but why does it matter on protocol level what kind of db is used locally ?
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I mean the consensus protocol ☟︎
Luke-Jr: which is inherently defined by the code
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: OpenBSD. I had the choice of debugging a bunch of wank or reverting to 0.7.2 and hand patching.
Luke-Jr: if leveldb fails to insert a UTXO, then a transaction creating that UTXO is invalid by the consensus rules
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: but why does it matter on protocol level what kind of db is used locally ?
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: ah, hm. I wonder how easily just adding some OpenBSD checks similar to the FreeBSD ones would go
BingoBoingo: Some people had built 0.9.x -sh on openbsd according to stories but no recipies were supplied
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: consensus protocols are not like network protocols
asciilifeform: yes but why 'leveldb.' say i'd like to use a db which runs on a martian trinary computer and writes bits to miniature dead babies turned in one of two directions
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if it is not bug-for-bug compatible with LevelDB, someone can fork you off the network
asciilifeform: how does consensus care, so long as i answer queries in precisely same way as 'leveldb' user
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Well for openbsd builds fired live the big change isn't db at all, but in wallet.cpp changing the random call to a better one (should not be necessary in -current or 5.7)
midnightmagic: NetBSD builds and syncs to head almost trivially now.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if you emulate LevelDB perfectly, you are fine, correct
midnightmagic: Linux on PPC builds and syncs to head based on the bigendian patch. I have not verified it against a current git yet.
BingoBoingo: midnightmagic> NetBSD builds and syncs to head almost trivially now. << But so much memory unsafety
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: can you give an example of a 'wedge' which could be pounded in to create this fork ?
midnightmagic: BingoBoingo: hm?
asciilifeform: there are still plenty of non-'leveldb' nodes operating
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: for example, back when Bitcoin's consensus protocol used BDB, one such wedge was the lock limit ☟︎
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: since fixed
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: know of another ?
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: yes, but not without a fork
BingoBoingo: midnightmagic: Example of a NetBSD problem set. http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/invented-by-openbsd
assbot: invented by openbsd ... ( http://bit.ly/1981kJA )
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: it's coincidence. if there is ever an insert which succeeds in leveldb but fails in bdb, those nodes will no longer be capable of sync'ing to head.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if we knew about it, it wouldn't exist anymore ;)
Luke-Jr: a non-db example that we are currently getting rid of is the non-DER signatures
Luke-Jr: that's a consensus rule based on old versions of OpenSSL code
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: most those problems I've read so far are only problems if you let randos log in to your bitcoind box. I personally would not be interested in running a non-dedicated bitcoind box on any OS.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: but midnightmagic is thinking of security, rather than forkholes
asciilifeform: !up Luke-Jr
Luke-Jr: "forkholes" *are* security relevant
BingoBoingo: <Luke-Jr> a non-db example that we are currently getting rid of is the non-DER signatures << Has the problem of people creating such sigs really happened outside of the goxnode retardation beginning block 168001?
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: if the usg charlatans want to create a fork with incompatible tx validation rules, they are welcome to.
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: the thing I'd be more concerned about was the recent non-random random number generator they committed to released versions.
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: if someone wants to trick you into accepting an invalid block, they can use this to do so
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: they dodged a bullet and nobody's called them on it
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: freebsd turned stool pigeon long ago
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: when it ditched gcc
BingoBoingo: ^
BingoBoingo: The entire FreeBSD 10 series is a replay of the 5 series retardation on steroids
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork. ☟︎
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: let's insert a link to the old thread here, so we don't have to repeat it.
BingoBoingo: ^ Noone used Theos NetBSD fork in 1996
Luke-Jr: OSs are not a consensus system
midnightmagic: how is it a stool pigeon?
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i don't think anyoine's using them anymore seriously.
midnightmagic: Also, I don't know much about FreeBSD except they caught their shitty /dev/random mistake before it was released to production
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#985417 << that one ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 03:29:14; mircea_popescu: !up Luke-Jr
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: it -was- released to production
asciilifeform: plenty of folks run -CURRENT
asciilifeform: i had a box with it, for instance
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: it was released to -current, running -current is explicitly disclaimed.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr> OSs are not a consensus system << No but every OS fork is a far less grave experiment actual onsensus systems must consider
midnightmagic: yeah, I run -current on NetBSD occasionally too..
midnightmagic: :-(
asciilifeform: folks doing dev work of one kind or another - run 'current'
asciilifeform: whether like it or not.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058571 << what the fuck % packaging is that ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:29:13; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pogo_crate.jpg
mircea_popescu: the actual unit is tiny, makes the crate look like it's 60% packaging
midnightmagic: yeah, kernel devs. In context, running bitcoind on -current, probably not a great idea given extensive -current history of breakage
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's mostly cardboard, as you can tell
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't intend to bring the cardboard
midnightmagic: like the really unfortunate backout of the M:N threading model on NetBSD. that was a sad time.
mircea_popescu: threading works on netbsd ?
asciilifeform: threading works on any posix
mircea_popescu: i tyhought they were stuggling with getting it to work.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99387 @ 0.00029365 = 29.185 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: musta misread.
asciilifeform shudders to imagine a unixlike os where threading flakes
mircea_popescu: bsd is bsdlike neh ?
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: M:N threading was a solaris-like, more-performant-than N:N threading model that nate committed to netbsd, but due to its complexity had to be backed out because nobody could maintain it or reliably fix bugs in it.
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/share/misc/bsd-family-tree?view=markup
assbot: [base] Contents of /head/share/misc/bsd-family-tree ... ( http://bit.ly/1xkJqyR )
midnightmagic: idea was, only spawn additional *kernel* threads to service user threads where it was absolutely necessary
midnightmagic: breakfast-time, sorry to derail convo
midnightmagic waves
BingoBoingo really dislikes the way leveldb handles memory.
BingoBoingo would rather not have to run a Bitcoind in -leper mode if he gets more powerful sparc hardware
asciilifeform: the 'bug for bug' thing is set to be an actual problem in the future.
BingoBoingo: It is, just like in TeX but more urgent
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2015#1034831 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2015 21:24:28; mircea_popescu: you're stuck with that. how do you think the original fork happened.
asciilifeform: ^ that thread.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
Luke-Jr: well, LevelDB is being excluded from libbitcoinconsensus at least
mircea_popescu: only way to manage it i can think of at the moment is disallowing the power ranger imbeciles from further commits
mircea_popescu: this having already been done... we'll have to figure something out.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: bug-for-bug is okay if all consensus code is kept carefully audited
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dare say i did figure out. but not enough hands here.
Luke-Jr: ignoring CPU issues..
mircea_popescu: no rush anyway.
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: try to understand the actual scope of such an audit
BingoBoingo: At the time of the 2013 fork I humbly though resolution would be possible. I mean it is just making DB's agree. Yet... LevelDB is a mess.
asciilifeform: should be enough to make your stomach do pirouettes
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058647 <>< not. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:01:13; BingoBoingo: Question: Is chav capitalized or not in proper usage?
asciilifeform: i thought it was 'chavv'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: K, working on that UK piece
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, it is one syllible
asciilifeform: do we even get a 'vv' in engl. and if so, what human sound does it correspond to
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058662 << lol best not ask. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:01; asciilifeform: how does a db end up thought of as part of the protocol ?
asciilifeform: i can picture how
asciilifeform: but was hoping the answer is something else
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You don't ger such sound it corresponds to choking on saliva
mircea_popescu: through a bunch of ignorant twerps using words they don't understand the meaning of, in the context of their self-allocated importance ?
asciilifeform: aha how else
asciilifeform has understood that there is not an else
mircea_popescu: i'm sure it'll do just as well as all preivious rehashes of this process.
BingoBoingo: Anyone have a link for britania's private key siezure turding?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there was one in here around 12 hrs ago
BingoBoingo is atm only on the fall of the empire
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: you audit only the changes
BingoBoingo: thx
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: the changes being contemplated involve losing 100% of the original
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058664 << contrary to what you might have erroneously come to believe a) 0.5.1 version as printed by the bitcoin foundation is the cannonical version of bitcoin ; b) various groups of scammers trying to attack bitcoin are continuously pushing their own versions of solidcoin, which has all the importance of ms boring's bitcoin chamber of commerce. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:17; Luke-Jr: afaik only the guys here are trying to maintain any sort of pre-leveldb codebase now
Luke-Jr: it's managable with a single implementation
mircea_popescu: "only audit the changes" ?
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: in the old thread, that is; it was about a hypothetical clean re-implementation of the whole thing
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: and there mircea_popescu observed that such a thing would have to come with a strong proof of equivalence to be worth taking seriously
mircea_popescu: where does all this braindamage stem from, seriously. what's the difference between an "only audit the changes auditing process" and dead reckoning ?
BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez
mircea_popescu: every time you change anything you're stuck auditing the whole thing you changed./
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: what kind of dope does one need to take to even imagine otherwise ?
mircea_popescu: same dope that they weren't smart tosling in the first place.
asciilifeform: but apparently this dope is being passed out, because i routinely run into folks who have this kind of mental bug
mircea_popescu: ended up eating it.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-03-2015#1043874 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 02:28:39; asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058668 << gotta admire the insistence on branding. here's a thought : gavin's neck was broken in public. you don't come out of that by inventing a new word to try and rally support around. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:49; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I mean the consensus protocol
mircea_popescu: you don't have support, principally because you were not good enough, and failed to grasp this in time.
asciilifeform: for a corpse, he's doing a good deal of dancing.
mircea_popescu: not my fault usg is into necrophillia.
mircea_popescu: but in his defense, pretty much his entire career consists of party entertainment in costume, so...
asciilifeform: pyronecrocryptozoophilia.
thestringpuller: lol cryptophilia
asciilifeform: 'consensus' is a beloved usg-ism >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-11-2014#926290 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 17-11-2014 04:49:54; asciilifeform: all you have to do, then, is to pile on the meat puppets, until suddenly there is a 'controversy', and there are 'points of view', and eventually - a 'consensus.'
brendafdez: i thought you may want ot have a laugh and it seems it wasn't shared here yet: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/18/want_to_dodge_nsa_supply_chain_taps_ask_cisco_for_a_dead_drop/
assbot: Cisco posts kit to empty houses to dodge NSA chop shops • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/18NafQH )
brendafdez: "
brendafdez: Cisco has poked around its routers for possible spy chips, but to date has not found anything because it necessarily does not know what NSA taps may look like, according to Stewart." :D
asciilifeform: what a muppet show
mircea_popescu: anyway, for the sake of historical accuracy, re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058687 : bitcoin STILL USES the bdb protocol. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:10:30; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: for example, back when Bitcoin's consensus protocol used BDB, one such wedge was the lock limit
asciilifeform: 'spy chips'
mircea_popescu: leveldb has mostly been beaten into submission to it.
mircea_popescu: but the first time it didn't submit its chain was abandoned
mircea_popescu: and the second time it won't, if that happens, its chain will be also abandoned.
mircea_popescu: i can see why the gavin troop would like the defense of "we have already moved the protocol once" to rely on, but it's simply not true.
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: With Cisco the NSA spying likely begins on the main silicon out of the factory
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't ask cisco for their own heads on a platter.
asciilifeform: begins with every fart of the program design and ends with the crate which is opened yet again for good measure
asciilifeform: simply to be loudly found out and distract from above.
brendafdez: Don't be so mean, they are busy looking for the spy chips
mircea_popescu: im kinda surprised cisco still pretends to be in business
asciilifeform: and for the wreckerz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how about that one! they've not sold anything to anyone since last year. and yet...
asciilifeform: for the враги народа
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they sell to the usual captive audience, that suffices
mircea_popescu: right right.
asciilifeform: plus the consumer crud (linksys) they bought out
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: Spy chips are what keep Cisco in business
asciilifeform: !up Luke-Jr
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058711 << lmao. newer versions are forks, yo. that's the definition of the words. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:16:20; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork.
brendafdez: Oh, that's sad, I though I knew eho they'd just hired to look for them. "Yeah I suppose the sad story in here is that if you show supposedly literate teenagers the insides of a USB stick they may be seeing it for the first time, and if you demand they point out the actual memory cores to save their lives they may well not be able to." http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/#comment-95546
assbot: How to airgap. A practical guide. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18NbTBW )
mircea_popescu: and no, bitcoin's rules are not defined by "what people use".
mircea_popescu: if that were the actual criteria, then "bitcoin" would be green and printed on paper.
mircea_popescu: cotton paper, to be exact.
asciilifeform: !b 3 ✂︎
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3Z6902M.txt )
mircea_popescu: the bitcoin rules are defined by what important people use, and as it happens gavin & co are unimportant.
mircea_popescu: to no-one's surprise except i guess a coupla code monkeys here and there who really bought the "doocracy" koolaid.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146300 @ 0.00029711 = 43.4672 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/26/feature_zayo_fibre_network_in_london_sewers << vintage but stimulating
assbot: Dark Fibre: Reg man plunges into London's sewers to see how pipe is laid • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/18Ndjw9 )
asciilifeform likes the term 'brown fiber' used in this article, wonders if actual extant term of art or neologism
mircea_popescu: prolly what the crews called it since forever.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 got tons more of thems. << hmm?
mircea_popescu: pogos.
mod6: ahh.
mod6: yeah, gotta get me one and try it out
asciilifeform: 'you’re not going to find a cable poking up in the loo of a data centre when it reaches its destination.' << at one point there was a vendor who pushed a 'robotic rat' for doing precisely this
mircea_popescu: mod6 definitely.
mod6: maybe i'll order one this coming week
mircea_popescu: especially seeing how the ~60 or so nodes left running are really not enough for 2012.
mircea_popescu: and speakin' o travel, http://41.media.tumblr.com/7c1f649d6b585953dc5e85ea0a3f37ce/tumblr_mwelg6qym41s9rg6lo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DDyRc5 )
BingoBoingo: I wish Scotland would have seceeded so I could justify writing "Lower Britain" more often
BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 262.96, Best ask: 263.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 263.0, 24 hour volume: 67036.12085919, 24 hour low: 250.33, 24 hour high: 269.5, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 243205 @ 0.00030067 = 73.1244 BTC [+] {4}
danielpbarron: why does gribble's vwap go away whenever there's the slightest volatility? and why does the vwap work if you get a quote in terms of ounces of gold?
BingoBoingo: !uo n3xtb1gthng
BingoBoingo: !up decimation
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Because it moved from deadstamp to buttfines
danielpbarron: it did it on buttstamp too
BingoBoingo inquires if there are any good proofreaders active atm that could serve the qntra
danielpbarron: i am
decimation: lol 'consensus rules'
BingoBoingo: !up n3xtb1gthng
n3xtb1gthng: thanks BingoBoingo
n3xtb1gthng: what's new guys?
mod6: <+Luke-Jr> asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork. << not true. i'm using it.
BingoBoingo: n3xtb1gthng: Well, a bitcoind build that is bigendian friendly for PPC, SPARC, and 68000 would be the tits
n3xtb1gthng: do those arcs run bitcoin today? (standard bitcoin)
BingoBoingo: !up nubbins`
nubbins`: ty
mod6: !up Luke-Jr
Luke-Jr: mod6: on what listening IP?
mod6: a routable one :)
Luke-Jr: I'd like to investigate why my crawler isn't picking it up
mod6: http://dpaste.com/3W20RWJ
assbot: dpaste: 3W20RWJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1B8h5Hg )
Luke-Jr: 8 connections generally means not listening
mod6: o.O how is it syncing blocks then?
Luke-Jr: outbound connections
mod6: tcp 0 0* LISTEN
Luke-Jr: …
Luke-Jr: is not routable, so this tells me nothing.
brendafdez: BingoBoingo I'm available, too. Not sure about the 'good' part, though.
mod6: hmm. derp.
mod6: one sec.
danielpbarron: is bitcoind still giving out version numbers to other nodes?
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: of course
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 143.1676222 BTC. Current weight: 47,015.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 103.31517126 BTC. Current weight: 88,245.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 143.1676222 BTC. Current weight: 47,015.
n3xtb1gthng: is there a philosophical reaosn you don't build some level of seigniorage into bitcoin? (as some alt's have)?
n3xtb1gthng: seigniorage would incentivize spending and usage/adoption. (even at a very moderate leve.)
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, that is the kind of thing bitcoin has come to destroy
Luke-Jr: n3xtb1gthng: in what sense? it costs more to mine bitcoins than you get already
danielpbarron: arguably, bitcoin *is* doing that thought, as it only costs what? 150 USD worth of electricty to mine 1 bitcoin which should be worth millions of USD
n3xtb1gthng: Luke-Jr, I mean if there is a nominal inflation that is automatic (beyond the very low percentage caused by mining) that would incentivize spending, and since people want to spend it, adoption (people will accept it).
danielpbarron: and why would we want to incentivize spending?? doesn't that goal contradict "mass adoption" ?
n3xtb1gthng: I mean a low percentage of seigniorage, not like 10% inflation or anything.
danielpbarron: "hey you! adopt this! ok now spend it! get rid of it! quick!"
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, ?? spending = mass adoption
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, I'm totally unclear. spending literally == (=========) adoption, when it comes to a currency?
danielpbarron: bitcoin is currently inflating
mod6: goddamnit im retarded
Luke-Jr: n3xtb1gthng: such a thing would violate the social contract; altcoins don't have a preexisting social contract to adhere to
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, it's losing value, not inflaitng.
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, spending is literally the opposite of adopting as you are necessarily getting rid of the thing you are spending
PeterL: saving == adoption
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, 3.6k bitcoin are created daily
trinque: Luke-Jr: what "social contract" does bitcoin have?
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, I disagree. if twenty people are trading seashells at a rate of twenty trades happen per day, that is high adotpion. at the rate of 1 seashell gets traded per year, that is low adotpion. adoption = spending.
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, what altcoin are you here to pump?
n3xtb1gthng: none
cazalla: oh look n3xtb1gthng is yet another person suggesting i spend my money, gtfo
n3xtb1gthng: cazalla you can both spend money and get money? The definition of a 'currency' is just a unit you do this in?
mircea_popescu: <n3xtb1gthng> is there a philosophical reaosn you don't build some level of seigniorage into bitcoin? (as some alt's have)? << about the same sort of philosophical reason as not building a tail into you.
mircea_popescu: like some other monkeys have done.
n3xtb1gthng: cazalla - I mean if you didn't want the possibility of spending it, how is it even money? It's only money because you know people will accept it :) :) And that comes from the fact that they accept everyone else's - i.e. high adoption.
PeterL: trinque: the "social contract" of bitcoin is the "spec" as laid out by satoshi in the white paper
trinque: PeterL: I was looking for a definition of the phrase ☟︎
n3xtb1gthng: If someone isn't receiving hundreds of bitcoins per day from any other source, how do you know they will accept yours? And if you don't know they will accept yours, how do you know that you hold money? adoption = acceptance and usage
brendafdez: <Luke-Jr> if there is a nominal inflation that is automatic (beyond the very low percentage caused by mining) that would incentivize spending, and since people want to spend it, adoption (people will accept it). << sounds like keynesian braindamage
cazalla: n3xtb1gthng, if people willingly accept my worthless dollars, i would be foolish to give them something of actual value eh
brendafdez: If that was a feature, we'd be using Freicoin
mircea_popescu: !down n3xtb1gthng
cazalla: anyway i don't need this aggravation, had enough of it today
danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, as long as MPEx accepts my coin I'm alright with it
mircea_popescu: srsly, random shitheads know what things are now. what is this, the future ?
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: Jun 07 17:31:33 *ninjashogun (~User@catv-212-96-61-236.catv.broadband.hu) has joined #bitcoin-assets
mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, all the idiots are the same one idiot.
cazalla: lol
mircea_popescu: how the fuck does this work.
trinque: hungary for attention?
mod6: Luke-Jr: anyway, im trying to listen on -port=8333 but i think aws is doing something funny.
brendafdez fucked it, I thought it was Luke-Jr saying that shit.
Luke-Jr: mod6: IIRC AWS has some kind of firewall by default
trinque: Luke-Jr: yep, gotta enable things in the security group
Luke-Jr: anyhow, wife demands me in bed, so ttyl
decimation: mod6: you gotta turn off the firewall in aws/ec2
decimation: for every port of interest
trinque: mod6: note you can open it only for another security group
decimation: look under the 'security groups' column in your instance
decimation: imma compiling aws now too
trinque: that's convenient if you're going ec2 -> ec2
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i instantly knew who it was
mod6 hangs head
mircea_popescu: how ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: needed his nick plus perhaps 3 words out of his idiot mouth
asciilifeform: (mr spam!)
mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/address/1FundZy7m7b8begbh9haCguKJcAdFopRJ9 << gotta say, nice of all teh peeps sending donations
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1FundZy7m7b8begbh9haCguKJcAdFopRJ9 ... ( http://bit.ly/1B8lHwQ )
mod6: i think that's mostly my testing + taxation
mircea_popescu: you sent teh .1337 ?
mircea_popescu: neways, five cents here, a cent there etc
mod6: yeah, and .01337498 and a bunch of other small amounts
mod6: yeah. its cool tho
mircea_popescu: aha
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah he was ringing my markov model too
mircea_popescu: but this is a totally new topic ?
mircea_popescu: markov how, all the dude was talking about before were genius biznis ideas and stuff.
asciilifeform: his new nick alone was a loud, profane fart in that direction
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058937 << rousseauism, when confronted with "well if the state isn't god's successor, why would anyone listen to it" he came up with a weirdo translation of god in burgeois terms. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 02:38:35; trinque: PeterL: I was looking for a definition of the phrase
mircea_popescu: god isn't the first warrior anymore, which all other warriors owe fealty too, god is now the first contract which all contracts are derived fro
trinque: mircea_popescu: sounded like a nothing term to me, meaning "accept that this is so"
trinque: yeah
mircea_popescu: nonsense through and through, but whadda ya want, encyclopedists, ie transhumanists v1.0
mircea_popescu: (the Dictionnaire raisonne des sciences, des arts, et des metiers. was essentially a b-a of the time fork of human knowledge of the time. it was wildly successful in spite of being mostly wrong)
trinque: I don't know much about rousseau, except that I recall him being mentioned by someone who was arguing bureaucracy was the greatest of all human inventions, and this with utter seriousness
decimation: mircea_popescu: but many of the folks in that wot ended up throwing derps into the woodchipper
mircea_popescu: trinque that's about where you'd expect it.
trinque: person was a fucking moron who worshipped big govt
mircea_popescu: decimation who, d'alembert ? lebreton ?
mircea_popescu: trinque bureaucracy has its uses. the problem is that the context it'd be useful in and the context in which it thrives are so wildly divorced.
mircea_popescu: sorta like how wolves would make excellent guard dogs, if only they stopped going and killing all the sheep and stayed at the fucking door instead.
asciilifeform: one might even say: bureaucracy was the first computer
decimation: voltaire, et al weren't exactly fans of the ancien regime
asciilifeform: computer of meat
trinque: I can see the point; a space is declared within which rules and processes accumulate
asciilifeform: peter 1 introduced bureaucracy in ru, and is worshipped for it
mircea_popescu: voltaire was a great fan, what are you talking about ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ayup/
trinque: but doing the accumulation as a good in itself seems to be where the insanity lies?
trinque: I recall the self-licking ice cream cone metaphor
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the computer of meat approach may well explain why it sucks so bad since 1900s. not a bad heuristic.
asciilifeform: it is how i always explain it to n00bs
asciilifeform: can make a computer out of near-anything
asciilifeform: but the only suitable material, in the old days, was meat
mircea_popescu: the other thing is : bureaucracy makes an excellent woman and an applaing man.
mircea_popescu: for as long as bureaucracy = the slaves of peter, or julius, or w/e, that may well work.
[]bot: Bet placed: 20 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 103.1868 BTC. Current weight: 79,985.
trinque: so happens the fan of bureaucracy was female
mircea_popescu: once people try to be run by a bureaucracy however... god help'em.
mircea_popescu: even patently retarded stuff like "Smart contracts" seem preferable by that experience.
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scUdQuy6SZc
assbot: Hermes Bureaucrat song - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzqJYM )
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: til "transhumanism" has a logo
mircea_popescu: how the fuck does this work.
mircea_popescu: i've never seen cancer this organised before.
asciilifeform: take it up with thiel
asciilifeform: who, as i understand, is paying
mircea_popescu: oh, is that it ?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: him.
mircea_popescu: "Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities."
asciilifeform: note that not even remotely true as printed on the crate
mircea_popescu: why so shy you know ? what's wrong with "Transhumanism is Thiel's stab at b-a. He thinks Omidyar's stab at qntra failed for reasons unrelated."
asciilifeform: -zero- actual work on lickliderian or engelbartian 'intelligence amplification' concept from these bozos
asciilifeform: much less anything actually hard like ai
mircea_popescu: "This article is about the futurist ideology and movement. For the critique of humanism, see posthumanism. For the pattern of seasonal migration, see transhumance. For persons experiencing incongruence between their actual gender and the gender assigned to them at birth, see trans man, trans woman, and transgender." << best part imo.
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform: no mention of trans fats?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how the world works. "nobody's using bitcoin, nobody could have foreseen their using a plane as a rocket and nobody's doing anything better nor anything better could exist than ... you know, raising awareness"
asciilifeform: or transesterification ?
mircea_popescu: it's a thing, all this.
mircea_popescu: "The most common thesis put forward is that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label posthuman."
mircea_popescu: check it out lmao, an international cultural and intellectual "movement" that aspires to one day... label soemthing!
asciilifeform: 'able' because cthulhu will wish it ?
mircea_popescu: no but it's splendid. so they aspire to... names!
mircea_popescu: maybe humanity could go to transyale and get a transphd ?
trinque: someday we will be caught up in the heavens with white robes, and our bodies will be purified
trinque: there's gotta be a damn circuit for this shit in the head
asciilifeform: trinque: they have a literal version of this!
asciilifeform: 'uploading'
mircea_popescu: "This hypothesis would lay the intellectual groundwork for the British philosopher Max More to begin articulating the principles of transhumanism as a futurist philosophy in 1990 and organizing in California an intelligentsia that has since grown into the worldwide transhumanist movement."
trinque: asciilifeform: lol oh I know
trinque: it is techno-christianity
mircea_popescu: basically this is scientology bahai ? do they speak esperanto ?
asciilifeform: trinque: it was slightly more interesting before was obvious sc4mz0r1ng
mircea_popescu: "Influenced by seminal works of science fiction, the transhumanist vision of a transformed future humanity has attracted many supporters and detractors from a wide range of perspectives." aaahahahaha
mircea_popescu: dude omfg... this is a parody is it ?
asciilifeform: when tech was actually kinda moving, '70s-80s, and a number of things looked quasi-plausible with one eye closed
mircea_popescu: wikipedia is turning into tvtropes.
trinque: asciilifeform: yudkowski even invented the beast or satan or w/e, that AI that resolves to abuse your eternal soul forever if you oppose it
asciilifeform: trinque: aha
trinque: hm might not have been him, but I read he fears it
asciilifeform: no it was him
mircea_popescu: how do you abuse the eternal soul ?
mircea_popescu: make it read bad fanfic about "bullies" ?
trinque: pls don't trigger me
asciilifeform: he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation
trinque: triggered for all time!
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is max moore is what i wanna know
mircea_popescu: "Max More (born Max T. O'Connor, January 1964) is a philosopher and futurist who writes, speaks, and consults on advanced decision-making about emerging technologies."
mircea_popescu: ...
asciilifeform: !s jaron lanier
assbot: 6 results for 'jaron lanier' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jaron+lanier
asciilifeform: !s digirati
assbot: 0 results for 'digirati' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=digirati
asciilifeform: ^ them.
decimation: we discussed lanier earlier
asciilifeform: that entire social set.
mircea_popescu: so like... being a playboy model without the tits ?
asciilifeform: 'public intellectuals'
mircea_popescu: not quite.
asciilifeform: as seen elsewhere on the planet. cocksucking sycophants of the most degenerate imaginable kind
mircea_popescu: public intellectuals are actually educated people.
mircea_popescu: how about "marketeers without a product" ?
asciilifeform: using the phrase in the derisive chinese sense
decimation: their produt is 'pay attention to meee'
asciilifeform: (as described in http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-rage-of-cultural-elites.html )
assbot: ClubOrlov: The Rage of the Cultural Elites ... ( http://bit.ly/1CrL2Jb )
mircea_popescu: Founder of the Extropy Institute, Max More has written many articles espousing the philosophy of transhumanism and the transhumanist philosophy of extropy,[6] most importantly his Principles of Extropy (currently version 3.11)
mircea_popescu: ok, this im reading then
mircea_popescu: "Extropy is a proposed opposing concept to entropy. As entropy decreases , signifying more order, so extropy would increase in the manner of negentropy."
mircea_popescu: holy shit. enthalpy never happened ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the actual founding document of mr y's garbage is actually this: http://mindstalk.net/vinge/vinge-sing.html
assbot: Vernor Vinge on the Singularity ... ( http://bit.ly/198l4wD )
mircea_popescu: god im sick of fucktarded usians giving their name to random items.
mircea_popescu: "and this tree i call jorje".
asciilifeform has an ancient copy of this, printed on matrix printer, yellowed with ages
mircea_popescu: "Extropy also attempts to describe the nature of the order, so a crystal , although highly ordered would have low extropy, but an organism or machine would have high extropy because of the informational structure contained within it. "
mircea_popescu: where's my red F
asciilifeform: vinge was (is?) a maths prof who went off the reservation and turned into a 3rd rate sf writer
mircea_popescu: http://www.extropy.org/principles.htm
assbot: Object not found! ... ( http://bit.ly/198linx ) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: check out the complexity. fucking fucktards already.
asciilifeform: !s vinge
assbot: 3 results for 'vinge' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=vinge
asciilifeform: possibly '3rd rate' is uncharitable. but he is quite unreadable today
asciilifeform tried
decimation: of course all of them would dismiss the YHWH worshipping Jews and Christians as credulous simpletons
decimation: but fear the great AI demon!
mircea_popescu: Date: Thu, March 19, 2015 11:21 pm
mircea_popescu: To: webmaster@extropy.org
mircea_popescu: Hello, <A href=http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059095>we ☝︎
mircea_popescu: think you are stupid</a>.
mircea_popescu: Carry on.
asciilifeform: decimation: never mind that not one could describe the first thing about building a computer which does not barf regularly
trinque: :D
decimation: asciilifeform: hey, they have a research program
mircea_popescu: In the mid-1970s F.M. Esfandiary legally[5] changed his name to FM-2030 for two main reasons. Firstly, to reflect the hope and belief that he would live to celebrate his 100th birthday in 2030
mircea_popescu: died in 2000.
mircea_popescu: must suck to be these people.
asciilifeform: they have... phaith!
mircea_popescu: The concept of the technological singularity, or the ultra-rapid advent of superhuman intelligence, was first proposed by the British cryptologist I. J. Good in 1965: "Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever."
asciilifeform: betcha he croaked convinced to the hilt he'd be ancestor-simmed.
mircea_popescu: check it out...
mircea_popescu: i love these scientists that don't even bother putting magic numbers in the code anymore.
mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform have we far surpassed yet or not ?
asciilifeform: much.
mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/H%2B_Cover_1.jpg << "Cover of the first issue of h+ Magazine, a web-based quarterly publication that focuses on transhumanism."
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/198mLKk )
mircea_popescu: apaprently the future is with bad lipstick and weirdo muslim headwear.
asciilifeform: the vinge essay is pertinent to the 'phoom' (actual name, iirc, for the apocalypse mechanism mr y believes in)
mircea_popescu: ;;google Natasha Vita-More nude
gribble: Natasha Vita-More on Whole Body Prosthetic - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LucitzhNQ8>; Bone Density on Vimeo: <https://vimeo.com/36305724>; Natasha Vita-More on Vimeo: <https://vimeo.com/natashavitamore>
mircea_popescu: mmmkay.
asciilifeform: 'phoom' is, in his cosmology, the conflagration resulting from a 'non-friendly' (read: not designed under mr y's tutelage) thinking machine which sets to work improving and crafting copies of self
asciilifeform: out of the remaining universe (how? ask him, not me)
asciilifeform: this is also called 'paperclipping'
mircea_popescu: wikipedia goes through an entire bio article without resolving her relationship to the max more dude.
bitstein: asciilifeform:he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation << Roko's Basilisk at least frightened people enough for him to delete everything about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LessWrong#Roko.27s_basilisk
assbot: LessWrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/198npHM )
asciilifeform: from an illustration where a malevolent apparatus converts all of the matter in the universe into paperclips.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why exactly do we suspect very intelligent machines would reproduce ?
mircea_popescu: very intelligent humans don't seem to.
asciilifeform: in his doctrine, it wasn't specified as something they would necessarily do to reproduce in the animal sense, but as a side-effect of operation
mircea_popescu: right. just like people.
asciilifeform: sorta like fire doesn't distinguish between 'designated' fuel and your house
mircea_popescu: but fire is not intelligent.
asciilifeform: basically he proposed that intelligence per se could behave like fire.
mircea_popescu: so his idea of superintelligence is superstupidity ?
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: way to let one's own wounded narcisism get hold of the whole cart.
mircea_popescu: seriously eliezer baby : first off we know you're stupid, and second off it really doesn't make much difference. okay ?
mircea_popescu: let it rest.
asciilifeform: specifically that any 'superintelligence' not crafted under his tutelage would inevitably turn into a world-burner of superstupid
decimation: mircea_popescu: the problem is that he's been 'endowed', which means his new career is to pump this stuff out
mircea_popescu: sorta like unbaptised kids ?
mircea_popescu: !up poli_
poli_: Hey
mircea_popescu: decimation hardly much of a problem neh ?
mircea_popescu: and who might you be poli_ ?
poli_: Is Milk here? I have a question regarding Bitbets.
decimation: well, insofar as it acts as a bezzlar sink, no
poli_: An enterprising bitcoin lover.
mircea_popescu: shoot.
poli_: Referred to this overflowing channel via bitbet as well.
mircea_popescu: decimation some other guy got a job as area supervisor of kfc, you know ? nothing wrong with it.
mircea_popescu: poli_ so what's your question ?
poli_: I was curious as to what kind of political questions are allowed.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm half convinced that yudkowsky's job is to tie up the brain cpu cycles of folks who could amount to something
asciilifeform: into harmless masturbatorium
poli_: My own specialty is in politicaly analysis and I've been waiting for the chance to put my knowledge to good use.
trinque: asciilifeform: "the beautiful ones"
mircea_popescu: poli_ so go for it.
asciilifeform: his forum housed the largest collection of people who showed symptoms of having a brain which i ever encountered prior to #b-a
asciilifeform: at least, encountered in one place
poli_: As in ask the question here?
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform interesting.
mircea_popescu: anyone willing to admit an ex lesswrong persona ?
poli_: Why not, sure.
danielpbarron: !s "ask to ask"
assbot: 6 results for '"ask to ask"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22ask+to+ask%22
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: admit << me.
poli_: I know lesswrong all to well.
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: http://lesswrong.com/user/asciilifeform/overview
assbot: Overview for asciilifeform - Less Wrong ... ( http://bit.ly/198p3t3 )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you got banned for spamming ?
asciilifeform: not quite
asciilifeform: just told that 'the likes of you ain't welcom'
mircea_popescu: "Roko's basilisk is a thought experiment that assumes that an otherwise benevolent future artificial intelligence (AI) would torture the simulated selves of the people who did not help bring about the AI's existence. [...] The concept was proposed in 2010 by contributor Roko in a discussion on LessWrong. Yudkowsky deleted the posts regarding it and banned further discussion of Roko's basilisk on LessWrong after it had ☟︎
mircea_popescu: apparently caused several contributors who took it seriously considerable anguish."
poli_: But anyways, mine question. Would I be allowed to bet on the following question: President Poroshenko will cease to be president of the Ukraine within 4 months.
asciilifeform: but in all fairness i haven't pushed the knob on that account in years
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. why would anyone care about some simulation ?!
asciilifeform: no idea if still worx
mircea_popescu: poli_ yes.
poli_: Well the idea is that Roko's basilisk
mircea_popescu: afaik there's a bunch of these.
poli_: will motivate people into bringing it around
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why would anyone care about some simulation << in mr y's world, the simulated organism -is- you
poli_: thereby bringing the simulation into existence
poli_: So burn all the records so people dont think of it
mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/1007/president-obama-impeached-before-2015/ etc
assbot: BitBet - President Obama Impeached before 2015 :: 0.01 B (6%) on Yes, 0.15 B (94%) on No | closed 4 months 2 weeks ago ... ( http://bit.ly/198plzZ )
poli_: Sweet, and thanks for the answer on the question.
mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/761/venezuelan-president-to-step-down/ etc
assbot: BitBet - Venezuelan President to step down :: 0.34 B (17%) on Yes, 1.61 B (83%) on No | closed 11 months 1 week ago ... ( http://bit.ly/198pmUy )
mircea_popescu: poli_ hit the search button, select politics and all bets, and see what the cat drags.
poli_: and I don't mean 'impeached', I mean 'cease beingr president', but whatever means fate happens to employ.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you mean "is"
bitstein: asciilifeform: great link you had posted back in 2009: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/rec.org.mensa/YnGkZSpALew/vsr0iDobXDwJ
assbot: Google Discussiegroepen ... ( http://bit.ly/198ptPW )
asciilifeform: 'is' (in their view) in the same way as the 'you' who goes to the toilet and then comes back 'is' you.
poli_: I figured you wouldn't be allowed to bet on overtly non-legal happenings. Thanks for the help Mircea
asciilifeform: bitstein: penny is inimitable and timeless
mircea_popescu: poli_ so do they keep attacking wikipedia to take it off ?
asciilifeform: bitstein: she was one of the more interesting folks i ever saw on the net. entirely vanished, long ago.
mircea_popescu: i don't get the argument tho, why is superai of the future influenced by ruminations of humans today
poli_: No idea. I stopped following Lesswrong a while back.
poli_: They got super spergy and fairly degen.
mircea_popescu: ;;ud dege
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dege | Bre 2 : Alow him fam hes a top dege, chek his high bats. Bre 1 : LOL Example 2. Bre 1 : That dege gets ber rude fam, i dashd his book out da window. Bre 2 : LOL  ...
mircea_popescu: ;;ud degen
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=degen | A degen is one step above the dero or derelict in the scale of madness. Scozz Walker ... Gamblers consider other gamblers degens, but not themselves usually.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the idea is that the mega-ai appears and has, somehow (forget physics for a moment) a total record of all things
bitstein: asciilifeform: is there an archive somewhere of her writing?
poli_: Plus, I didn't think the Roko's Basilisk scenario was all that likely.
poli_: personal opinion there
asciilifeform: bitstein: google groups has most of it, but no longer searchable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then it's done, no ?
asciilifeform: bitstein: my hard disk has the 2nd largest, i suspect.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha done
asciilifeform: but thinking about it was giving some of mr y's gurlz nightmares
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what happens if i make two simulations of the same one slavegirl and order them both to fight to the death ?
asciilifeform: and so he declared jihad
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't tried this
mircea_popescu: (while the original's watching, of course)
asciilifeform: so cannot rightfully apprehend what happens
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78100 @ 0.00029644 = 23.152 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: who is stronger, the elephant or the whale.
mircea_popescu: i suppose i got to ask lesswrong, they seem to know all sortsa shit about how shit that doesn't exist works.
asciilifeform: i did say to mr y 'inventing circuit breaker before discovering electric current'
asciilifeform: there was no interesting reply.
poli_: indeed Mircea.
poli_: indeed.
asciilifeform: thing is, he wasn't always a charlatan
asciilifeform: was once an enthusiastic self-taught kid
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/uk-regulates-self-out-of-bitcoin/
asciilifeform: wrote to him in the '90s while also a kid
decimation: I take all of the above writing as evidence that the authors in question have never tried to create a real simulation on an actual computer
asciilifeform: my first pgp-gram actually.
mircea_popescu: all sorts of fun could be had here. what if i get a simulation of me to impregnate the actual girl, and then i impregnate the simulation of her.
asciilifeform: he wrote back, seemed like a c00l d00d
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform self-teaching IS quite like fire.
mircea_popescu: i've known many of these, they look like radiation. sooner or later start moving toward wall.
asciilifeform: at the time he actually was trying to scarf up all there was written re: ai, hoping to build something new
asciilifeform: the 'flip' happened, iirc, some time in the early 2000s when his brother died of mysterious death
asciilifeform: mr y had a breakdown of sort
mircea_popescu: was he bullied ?
asciilifeform: fuck if i know
mircea_popescu: would explain a lot of bad fiction i read in sumary.
asciilifeform: he was drummed out of school as a youth
asciilifeform: for what, i do not know
mircea_popescu: can't figure out how to thank that physics dude that read what seems like > 500 pages of shit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i meant the bro.
asciilifeform: http://richardkulisz.blogspot.com/search/label/yudkowsky << another mr y h8t3r
assbot: Richard Kulisz: yudkowsky ... ( http://bit.ly/198rEmI )
asciilifeform: ^ also old net crackpot
bitstein: asciilifeform: ah, okay. i'll peruse that.
asciilifeform does not endorse mr k wholesale
asciilifeform: but stimulating reading
mircea_popescu: decimation i have the same impression.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00030268 = 1.6042 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: fucking blogspot.
mircea_popescu: "What is rationality? It's the ability to make life plans which reach your goals."
mircea_popescu: uh. i don't think so.
mircea_popescu: rationality is a purely linguistic property, it has exactly nothing to do with action.
mircea_popescu: rationality is, basically, the ability to distinguish homomorphisms from homologies.
mircea_popescu: (same structure vs same components)
asciilifeform: i meant the bro << ah i've no idea. found dead in a dark alley, iirc, but nothing publicly out afaik beyond that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00029644 = 1.4081 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: homomorphisms from homologies << doug hofstadter spent a good chunk of his life bashing head against this
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: farg is probably one of the better approaches to the ai problem, at any rate.
poli_: Thanks again for the help Mircea, talk to yall later
mircea_popescu: cheers]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this discussion inspires me to the following ai standard : a computer that can distinguish code from data is rational.
brendafdez: ben_vulpes pls check message :P
mircea_popescu: "It annoys me that idiots continue to use "oh wow, that's so amazing" as the measure of creative genius. Or even worse, that they rely on society's direction to determine who is a creative genius and who isn't. First of all, creative geniuses are RESPECTED and LOOKED UP TO by society. And any position that is looked up to will be coveted by Narcissists who are driven by Glory, such as Richard Feynman who all his life w
mircea_popescu: as driven to be a jerkass asshole and a thief."
mircea_popescu: somebody's got some issues o.O
asciilifeform: mr k is a full-bore crackpot, sorta like yours truly but with heavier radiation damage
asciilifeform: iirc he lives somewhere in canada on a meagre pension
decimation: re: simulation > consider 266 bits. the number of possibilities for those bits is equal to the number of electrons in the universe
mircea_popescu: The Real Deal
mircea_popescu: How do I know I'm the real deal instead of a crazed nutter? Because I tend to elicit the 'damn, that's so obvious now' reaction from people who elicit that same reaction from people like you.
mircea_popescu: decimation i don't think anyone seriously considers that entire "simulation as life" thing outside of fiction.
decimation: how is that not exactly the same as "oh wow, that's so amazing'
mircea_popescu: it's just too dependent on vast ignorance.
decimation: mircea_popescu: one cannot speak with certainty about the whereabouts of a single electron, even with infinite bezzlars to dispose on the task
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: decimation: to be fair, even discussing its 'whereabouts' is wrong straight off the bat.
mircea_popescu: it gets worse, there's entire swaths of particles that are mirrored, you'll never know if you've got various pairs right or backwards.
asciilifeform: like dividing by 0.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31335 @ 0.0002959 = 9.272 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: aye
mircea_popescu: right, something like that.
mircea_popescu: "Labels: creativity, Psychology, yudkowsky". lol. why ?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14715 @ 0.00029203 = 4.2972 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "It's wise to keep track of what your mortal enemies do, and there's little that more exemplifies Pure Evil in this world than Eliezer Yudkowsky."
asciilifeform: because he ran into him and barfed for a year straight
mircea_popescu: such an internet this internet is.
mircea_popescu: how is some geeky kid pure evil ?!
asciilifeform: in mr k's view, the hypothetical ai is alive and building it 'friendly' (to use mr y's term) is an act of diabolical cruelty
asciilifeform: like growing a kid in a glass jar
asciilifeform: or in usa
mircea_popescu: http://hplusmagazine.com/ <><< ahahahaha o may gawd.
mircea_popescu: "Interview: JeRm La Haine — On Transhuman Unit and his new project IAIO" << http://i0.wp.com/hplusmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Screen-Shot-2015-03-12-at-10.58.28-AM.png?fit=300%2C300
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/198w6Sz )
mircea_popescu: "Crowdfunding: Support Titanovo’s Novel Telomere Testing Technology" complete with their own scams an' errything.
asciilifeform: the fella in that picture is such a jaronlanier
asciilifeform: srsly, why must these folks all look alike ?!
asciilifeform 's first paying job, while student, pertained to telomerase
asciilifeform: http://www.jimmunol.org/content/166/11/6647.full << mentioned in the 'monkeys' section
assbot: Induction of Telomerase Activity During Development of Human Mast Cells from Peripheral Blood CD34+ Cells: Comparisons with Tumor Mast-Cell Lines ... ( http://bit.ly/198wH6A )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75350 @ 0.00028944 = 21.8093 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: "We thank Stanislav Datskovskiy for his assistance with the measurement of telomerase activity in some of these experiments and Martha Kirby for her expert assistance in the analysis of apoptosis." check you out.
asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing how much use came of this. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "Jerm La Haine: I’ve been doing music production and graphic design for just under twenty years now." ☟︎
decimation: asciilifeform: re: look alike < note that they are all 'alterntive' in the same way. none of them choose to dress like 15th century nobility, for example
mircea_popescu: " Currently I’ve been getting lots of positive attention for my new record label Collective Conscious Records."
mircea_popescu: it's scary what kids today use to describe themselves.
mircea_popescu: decimation shut up, it's LA!!! Haine.
asciilifeform: decimation: aha. nor will they put on a cravat
asciilifeform: you won't catch them dressing up as mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: (la haine = to clothes, in ro.)
mircea_popescu: "I started the record label because I wasn’t happy with any of the offers i got from other record labels. It’s a way I can release my own stuff on my own terms. After the first couple releases people started getting interested in the label. I’ve even started working out deals with some artists. I recently released a few tracks with Lonnie Dangerous and Collective Conscious Records is getting ready to release an a
mircea_popescu: lbum by Young Boy Hybrid. Currently Collective Conscious Records has eighteen releases available and we have several more on the way this year."
asciilifeform: although to mr mold's credit - the man once proposed that moldbuggerites dress in tweed 'to rebel'
mircea_popescu: the very strange thing here is that he somehow thinks the "releases" are the problem record labels solve.
mircea_popescu: not the market. you're a record label for having 100 singer-songrwiters, that'll make whatever shit, not for having 100mn customers who'll buy whatever you put out.
mircea_popescu: such strange.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pilo_ I read the whole Yudo Harierzer thing
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: the music label's real 'problem solving' would be knowing how to push the right bellybuttons to force a song to be played in a large chunk of the existing radio stations/youtubes/ipods
mircea_popescu: aye.
mircea_popescu: more of a 90s thing, record label as master of payola.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "It's wise to keep track of what your mortal enemies do, and there's little that more exemplifies Pure Evil in this world than Eliezer Yudkowsky." << Dude is harmless can't even kill the little girl without a troll
decimation: yes, the business model is failing. it still exists, but it is a victim of its own success in the sense that it has trained the masses to ignore radio
mircea_popescu: "“Transhuman Strategies” conference March 21 in Silicon Valley—- Tickets Limited! Posted: February 26, 2015
mircea_popescu: What are the Transhuman Goals in the near future? 0 comments"
mircea_popescu: this can't be a thiel thing can it ?
BingoBoingo: Almost has to be
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thiel plus wannebee panhandlers on his door
mircea_popescu: ah.
mircea_popescu: anyone going ? :D
decimation: does anyone here live in the bay area?
BingoBoingo: No I
asciilifeform: btw mr y was running sc4mf3r3nc3z before bitcoin
asciilifeform: for $maxint
mircea_popescu: "Venue: Prospect SIlicon Valley Categories: Brighter Brains, Transhumanism Tags: communications, strategic planning, strategy, SWOT"
mircea_popescu: SWOT!
mircea_popescu: maybe they slip up and built the transhuman bureaucracy, complete with transflipcharts.
asciilifeform: special weapons onanism team ?
asciilifeform: (swot)
mircea_popescu: "What are the Transhuman Goals in the near future? How can these Transhuman ideas permeate the mainstream? Are there ways Transhumanism can assert itself in the political sphere? How can Transhumanist ideas and innovations create a better world now, for billions of people on Earth?"
mircea_popescu: ahaha this is such a delicious target.
mircea_popescu: say timmy... anything you could do with these two burnt matcsticks TO CREATE A BETTER ALPHA CENTAURY FOR MILLIONS OF STARS IN THE GALAXI ?!?!?
mircea_popescu: "The conference begins with a “Meet & Greet” session from 12:15 – 1:00 pm, followed by speakers from 1:00 – 5:00. After the conference, participants will be encouraged to continue the discussion at a nearby bar (location announced at the event). The cost to attend the mini-conferences is only $20; only $15 for students, seniors, and people who travel more than 50 miles to get there. Tickets on sale at EventBrit
mircea_popescu: e HERE." << asciilifeform i doubt about that maxint.
asciilifeform: that's an imitator
asciilifeform: speaking of the 'genuine article'
decimation: only $20? what kind of scammer only asks for one yuppie foodstamp?
asciilifeform: ;;google singularity university
gribble: Singularity University | Solving Humanity's Grand Challenges: <http://singularityu.org/>; So, What is SU? | Singularity University: <http://singularityu.org/overview/>; Graduate Studies Program | Singularity University: <http://singularityu.org/graduate-studies-program/>
decimation: asciilifeform: did you read about the new fucktarded appleism - the USB type C port?
mircea_popescu: that's accredited ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't actually university-shaped
asciilifeform: more like reptilia's 'conference' thing
mircea_popescu: lolk
asciilifeform: decimation: aha, their dock connector
mircea_popescu: The Speaker List includes: Zoltan Istvan – 2016 US Presidential candidate of Transhumanist Party
decimation: yeah
mircea_popescu: fuck, i had no idea there's a transhumanist party.
decimation: apparently does 10 gpbs AND allows 100 watts of charge!
mircea_popescu: decimation you knew ?!
mircea_popescu: a nm.
asciilifeform: (apple released a machine which is entirely unusable without the dock gizmo)
decimation: later google et.al. jumped on the bandwagon
decimation: because it makes so much sense to have the same plug for your power port and your video signal
asciilifeform: and a retreat from the magnetic plug
asciilifeform: which (stolen from korean coffee pots) was the one good idea apple forced through the thick skulls of other vendors
mircea_popescu: i think the plan is to merge coaxial and power lines.
mircea_popescu: i gues tptb don't see fiber in the future of america.
decimation: magplug was a good idea for power
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: power-over-lan is sop among large indoor installations of whatever
asciilifeform: i have it even here
decimation: What I fear is new malwarez installed on your monitor!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on the other hand, data over mains cable is sop in eu
decimation: or your power supply. or whatever, because who the fuck knows what is going on in your uninspectible 10gbs bus
asciilifeform: works great to the nearest transformer booth (where you need an active amp)
decimation: data over mains cable is a terrible idea
asciilifeform: but even cheaper than 'brown fiber' (see earlier sewer article)
decimation: spams HF spectrum with nasty shit
asciilifeform: and hence doomed to happen
mircea_popescu: ^
decimation: why is it so hard to run a fiber to a neighborhood data center
asciilifeform: decimation: digging rights
mircea_popescu: Speakers list : Maria Konovalenko & Mikhail Batin – Immortality Activists << http://maria-konovalenko.typepad.com/.a/6a01348002e89e970c01348542262a970c-pi
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DDWiSw )
mircea_popescu: "Hank Pellissier is the director of Brighter Brains Institute, and the producer of eight transhumanist conferences in 2013-2015."
mircea_popescu: i guess to the random eye this is === bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93250 @ 0.00030323 = 28.2762 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: thiel (and possibly friends) seed it. the chumpatronium sustains.
decimation: asciilifeform: it's more than just digging rights. surely the majority of surban homeowners would be more than happy to make their own comcast if they could
asciilifeform: decimation: digging rights in throughfares.
asciilifeform: or what, proposing to connect the suburbanites to each other?
asciilifeform: works in ro where there were sentient lifeforms about, circa 1994 or when
asciilifeform: but usa? forget it
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah exactly that. for a few thousand bucks each, it would be trival to make a small neighborhood isp of great quality
decimation: but the probability that a given set of 100 homes in the the us would be occupied by owners so enlightened..
asciilifeform: and of never having to traverse city land
asciilifeform: this is actually a problem in ukraine
asciilifeform: in odessa even
asciilifeform: where there is an eternal war between the electric and cable (internet) utils
mircea_popescu: decimation this is exactly how ro internet worked, and the reason ro internet is today in the top 5 worldwide, with 4 azns : that pressure ten years ago
mircea_popescu: and it cost 10s not 1000s of dollars
asciilifeform: like an actual war, with cut cables weekly
mircea_popescu: but i think alf has it : population of psychopaths.
mircea_popescu: it matters.
decimation: in the us, it is common for nearly all homes built after 1970 to be built upon land which is part of an 'hoa'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, some state authority or other decided to cut cables. the city hall nearly caught fire as a result, and the plan was discontinuied.
decimation: when you buy a home on such land, you automatically agree to whatever fucktarded idea was popular in 1982
mircea_popescu: decimation no idea who'd build on land he didn't own, but hey.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by that token scarcely anyone on u.s. coasts owns land
asciilifeform: it is virtually wholly encumbered
mircea_popescu: http://maria-konovalenko.typepad.com/blog/2010/06/the-blocking-point.html << check out this transhumanist project. "let's pretend like we're valuable and have skills and people should be queing on our door to give us moneys"
assbot: The Blocking Point - Maria Konovalenko ... ( http://bit.ly/198DnSh )
decimation: asciilifeform: even in middle america it's the same, on any newer home
mircea_popescu: quite entertaining.
asciilifeform: (not even speaking of taxation)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i don't own there.
decimation: you would quite literally need to buy a plot of farmland in the middle of nowhere
decimation: or some ghetto shack
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that vinge dood thinks progress in biology does not depend on computers ?
mircea_popescu: nuts.
asciilifeform: check the date.
mircea_popescu: 93 ? what of it ?
asciilifeform: the massive sequence alignment thing wasn't a going concern quite yet.
mircea_popescu: i thought he knew the future.
asciilifeform: the only american sf author who 'knew the future' was robert sheckley.
asciilifeform: or possibly philip dick.
asciilifeform: (saw as darker, more demented version of their own time, naturally)
mircea_popescu: heh.
nubbins`: got the paranoia right anyway
mircea_popescu: accidentallyright.jpg
BingoBoingo offers now that if any motherfucker named Dallas Cook is trying to dope me with malware I would advise stopping that felony.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you know those stories about how rich guy heard the paupers / shoeshine boys discuss stocks and bailed ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wai wat
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes! but can't recall where
asciilifeform: ancient legend
mircea_popescu: "Progress in computer hardware has followed an amazingly steady curve in the last few decades [17]." << by now moore';s law is currency in trading for everyine, from usgavin to vince whoever.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I have no definiteive evidence, but I have obsrved trends
mircea_popescu: i am firmly persuaded that the wall's coming.
mircea_popescu: current computers are best computers, and fu humanity.
asciilifeform: clocked circuits are retarded
asciilifeform: (literally)
asciilifeform: and if you're building computers in the tens or hundreds rather than quajizillions quantities there is no reason not to use germanium, gallium arsenide, doped diamond, etc. chemistries
mircea_popescu: besides the point. here's mp's prediction : the computer that can be had for a one ounce of gold in 2025 will be inferior to the computer that can be had for an ounce of gold today, on computation measures.
mircea_popescu: because industrial infrastructure has been kept in new state by constant improvement.
decimation: mircea_popescu: you are betting against lithography?
mircea_popescu: once improvements go away, infrastructure starts to decay.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Lithograpy has limits
mircea_popescu: decimation litho is already dead, intel's cancelling narrower process etc.
asciilifeform: ^ if industrial collapse carries on, it will be difficult to imagine a computer of any description being constructed in 2025 other than out of 'junkyard wars' pieces
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unrelated, that. obv it'd be of chinese make in any case.
decimation: I thought they were already on the path for 10 nm
mircea_popescu: look into it.
mircea_popescu: they were onthe path to, decided not to follow it.
mircea_popescu: 10nm is maybe not really happening.
asciilifeform: might expensive toy just to keep microshit alive another 2 yrs
asciilifeform: *mighty
mircea_popescu: and yes alf's right, the end of moore is also the end of ms, apple etc.
mircea_popescu: once people start having to optimize, the doocracies are dead.
mircea_popescu: kinda why poettering's in such a hurry, i guess.
BingoBoingo: Shame Sun's already dead
mircea_popescu: as if old code somehow gets forgotten or something, dunno.
asciilifeform: usg pours $maxint into optical logic, but nothing is publicly known re: what, if anything, ever came of it
asciilifeform: not for desktops of idiot tetris-playing dilberts, no
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right. only failure can be kept from the public knowledge.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The price of old RISC beasts already marches upwards
asciilifeform: any crowned head who has half a brain is sponsoring optical hasher.
decimation: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/intel-forges-ahead-to-10nm-will-move-away-from-silicon-at-7nm/ < seems like they are still on path for 10 nm
assbot: Intel forges ahead to 10nm, will move away from silicon at 7nm | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1CDc94b )
decimation: sounds like they are considering ascii's iii-v chemistry for 7nm
asciilifeform: intel surrendered to chumpification of the most abject kind, sells severely underclocked dies which temporarily 'turbo' up
asciilifeform: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/bronx-man-confesses-to-laser-pointer-incident-after-cops-arrest-his-housemate << mega-lol yet again
assbot: Bronx man confesses to laser pointer incident after cops arrest his housemate | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1CDcIL2 )
mircea_popescu: decimation from what i recall reading on teh topic, the 14nm process was a total debacle and 10nm is a theory only thing.
BingoBoingo is overflowing with Wintel hate atm
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> decimation from what i recall reading on teh topic, the 14nm process was a total debacle and 10nm is a theory only thing << This
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo: the basic mechanics here: wintel racket was powered, like many other similar idiocies, by the american 'fat'
asciilifeform: which is to say, it is not enough to con chumps, they must also have fat to be rendered for
asciilifeform: then they can go off to the shops and buy 'windows 95' because the cardboard waving hand says to (actual thing, saw alive, in '95)
asciilifeform: but the blow their fat disposable income on resulting new computer
mircea_popescu: decimation look at it this way : 14nm was demonstrated in memories cca 2005, intel shipped it in 2015.
asciilifeform: without which the idiot crud won't boot
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And then you find old folks on the family tree to which you owe defference
mircea_popescu: 10nm was demonstrated... cca 2009 ?
mircea_popescu: it's not happening.
asciilifeform: without fat - nothing to power the engine
decimation: well, it certainly seems that we are at the edge of what silicon can yield
mircea_popescu: economically.
asciilifeform: the folks who are supposed to be buying new computer on microshit's say-so are short a benjie or two for rent this month
mircea_popescu: there's that big bitch in there. ~economically~. the cost for 10nm is alreadyu not covered by the density benefits
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: outside of a handful of 'naggums' - it was -never- justified
asciilifeform: virtually all computer users got vastly more actual 'bang for buck' in 1992 than today
mircea_popescu: hm ?
mircea_popescu: heh. think about bitcoin on pc xt
asciilifeform: not so far-fetched to picture it on pent1
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, but not in terms of raw flops, when massaged properly
asciilifeform: we have essentially that on pogo
decimation: there's little doubt that man's ability to create tiny features on silicon has far outpaced his ability to do something useful with them
asciilifeform: while being one of the really not so many people who found it properly useful, i will still say that ultimately it was a side effect of a mega-scam
decimation: asciilifeform: what's 'it'? the pursuit of small features?
brendafdez: it was a side effect of a mega-scam << ?
mircea_popescu: point being, the trillions needed for 10nm and beyond aren't forthcoming and that's the end of this run.
mircea_popescu: which was a great run, a point that'll be made obvious by the anger of all the hanger-ons once itstops
decimation: whether 10nm is the stopping point or not, I agree that this is the ultimate end. exponentially increasing fab costs cannot abide forever
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: decimation: what's 'it' << the difference in cpu available to luser today vs. '92
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I think there's some truth to that - ultimately the vast majority of computer-purchasing money is 'dumb money'
asciilifeform: not merely this, but driven to be spent entirely by microshit's idiot 'operating system pr0gr3ss'
asciilifeform: incidentally, the 'laser terrorism' thing is, as always, smoke which is never without fire:
asciilifeform: the helicopter is the symbol of statal power against the peon schmuck ☟︎
asciilifeform: in every modern evil empire
asciilifeform: the folks on the ground 'must know their place', is the message.
BingoBoingo: The Hind started that
ben_vulpes: the helicopter is an easily pricked balloon.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah there's some truth to that, wrt aircraft in general too
asciilifeform: decimation: was not always so. think of the 'barnstormers' of the '30s, the '50s delusions of 'every man and his little flying coffin', etc
asciilifeform: but soon it was clear even to imbeciles that flying was an aristocrat's (or totalitarian thug enforcer's...) game. ☟︎
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, note how aircraft went from tinkering in the barn to 'instruments of power'
decimation: and the similarity with computers
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: incidentally, http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/bronx-man-confesses-to-laser-pointer-incident-after-cops-arrest-his-housemate/?comments=1&post=28682927
assbot: Bronx man confesses to laser pointer incident after cops arrest his housemate | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1xlocRF )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^
BingoBoingo very angrey atm
decimation: from this point of view, the tinker's duty is to be the Praetorian guard for the state
BingoBoingo also incredibly drunk
ben_vulpes: <jurov> my opinions were formed by several friends eating disinfo that was later traced back to RT, with sink and hooker << hook line and sinker perhaps the phrase?
ben_vulpes: otherwise this is a new one for me
BingoBoingo: sink and hooker is bester
ben_vulpes: hyu
ben_vulpes: k
ben_vulpes: i'll accept
asciilifeform: 'i'ma start my own casino now, with sink'n'hookerz'
ben_vulpes: "yeah i'll take the whole thing sink luser and hooker"
ben_vulpes: meh.
BingoBoingo dealing with family member brought to malware in an impersonal way, but I want to take this transgression very personally
BingoBoingo smash is default setting here
BingoBoingo recognizeds /me very drunk and traveling to India to /smash would be a challenge
BingoBoingo still leans towards .smash as a remedy
decimation: ben_vulpes: sigh, got bitcoind built on aws, now I got to buy more storage space :(
brendafdez: aws was the best alternative?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lemme guess, the old classic 'fake av' sc4m
decimation: brendafdez: it's an alternative
decimation: as I recall, folks here have had good luck with 'vultr' too
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Torrent seed node sc4m
ben_vulpes: well, 'good'.
ben_vulpes: shit goes goes down and comes up more frequently than an expert cocksucker.
decimation: ben_vulpes: what? aws?
ben_vulpes: vultr.
asciilifeform: 'So the thing that interests me the most is that this doesn't seem to have been weaponized by anyone. I'd think, given how much disparity there is between modern military units and insurgent groups and how much of that relies on air superiority, that we'd be hearing regularly about lasers being used to blind combat air pilots...' << from comments
decimation: ah.
ben_vulpes: for all the hate it gets around here, aws is pretty solid
ben_vulpes: untrustworthy, but what is.
decimation: agreed, it does seem solid
decimation: doesn't need to be trusted if nothing secret is on it
ben_vulpes: still
ben_vulpes: i'd love me a dedi
decimation: well, yeah, but I love me $k per month
ben_vulpes: jurov linked a thing, some 50 us/mo iirc for dedis
trinque: !up deedbot-
decimation: seems dubious
trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LyiHVO )
trinque: deedbot you fuck
ben_vulpes: trinque: get that thing on your account and get it upped permanently, would you?
BingoBoingo: So cheap black box with pf stops all undesirable traffic. Still some poor ass brown fucks (likely) managed to land malware on my mum's computer which would make it a mega seed node for shows available freely on OTa networks.
BingoBoingo saw letter boils in anger
BingoBoingo: And vodka
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wNORR5 )
trinque: weird, in pm that works.
trinque goes to poke the tenyks
trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah I will
trinque: * ben_vulpes ^
BingoBoingo plans on setting up mum and edge router lite, but in the interim... Imma drink so much vodka
trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wNP6vp )
asciilifeform may be hearing of a fella drinking on account of a crapware incident for the first time
decimation: ben_vulpes: as I recall the stuff hosted on aws didn't have any problems with mr. ddos
BingoBoingo so pissed I might have to wander till I find a coyote just to have a fair fight as I kick its teeth out.
ben_vulpes: decimation: aws drops those packets iirc
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This is only exceptional in the sense that there are potentially nameable enemies who might b attribule
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo drinks on occasions?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But since they have already earned the shitlist.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Occasions just make me drink moar.
decimation: amusingly the http://www.ntp.org/ page has a box begging people to block non-assigned ips from ingressing or egressing
assbot: ntp.org: Home of the Network Time Protocol ... ( http://bit.ly/1LyjtSw )
ben_vulpes: kinda what i'm getting at
BingoBoingo: Hatorade isn't even a charitable description of my current beverage.
trinque: deedbot-: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LyiHVO )
deedbot-: imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF
trinque: you fuck
BingoBoingo impressed he can maintain this anger while his democratocally elected mayor struggles to breathe http://www.bnd.com/2015/03/18/3718138/highland-mayor-takes-big-step.html
assbot: Metro-east news from Belleville, IL | Belleville News-Democrat ... ( http://bit.ly/1xDY9Q6 )
ben_vulpes: trinque: did it not work?
trinque: ben_vulpes: note the two deedbots which were necessary to make it listen
ben_vulpes: hahahaha
trinque: yet direct_only=False in the command
ben_vulpes: no.
trinque: whatever I'll figure it out
ben_vulpes: i did not.
ben_vulpes: meatfilters kicked in.
trinque: haha
trinque: one more try and I'll stop shitposting
trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xDYl1C )
BingoBoingo: trinque: Just copy the punkbot interface
BingoBoingo: !up FrankU
trinque: BingoBoingo: the way it currently is, it just eats whatever URL
trinque: sees whether it's a key or message, does the right thing
trinque: I'm having to mention it though to get it to pay attention to commands
trinque: which... not the behavior in the manual ☟︎☟︎
trinque: I am probably doing something wrong
BingoBoingo: trinque: The way punkbot did had no real commands.
trinque: BingoBoingo: yeh that's how this will be
BingoBoingo: I have my fears and reservations
trinque: life's scary
BingoBoingo: So noone's going to give a cheer to cheif Joe for making it from rehab to a nursing home?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45256 @ 0.0002928 = 13.251 BTC [-]
decimation: ben_vulpes: what size volumes do you use?
ben_vulpes: 100g
ben_vulpes: +
decimation: sigh
decimation: that's 5 large per month
BingoBoingo: Not in pounds sterling... anymore
asciilifeform: http://io9.com/watch-a-pair-of-tank-mounted-fighter-jet-engines-exting-1675620218 << vintage l0l
assbot: Watch A Pair Of Tank-Mounted Fighter Jet Engines Extinguish An Oil Fire ... ( http://bit.ly/1xDZQgc )
ben_vulpes: for ssds sure
decimation: magnetic is 5 cents per gb-month
decimation contemplates having aws image network-mount his home 'block store'
ben_vulpes: hm no then my memory's flawed
decimation: $60 per year is for rich folk
ben_vulpes: mayhap
ben_vulpes: per earlier thread, now is the time to lay in magnetic drives, chips and ram.
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058637 < trying to practice ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:58:04; asciilifeform: possibly the most dangerous animal to be in the lands of usg (and au, as i understand, is a kind of target practice range for usg idiocies) is the fella with just enough to be worth skinning, but three or four zeroes short of mircea_popescu-esque atomic dirigible where he can hit back
ben_vulpes: practicing hitting back?
ben_vulpes did not parse
BingoBoingo: No appologies from there are possible. Fuckers targetted my mum.
decimation: no, I should have included his earlier point. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058631 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058634 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058635 ☝︎☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:55:00; asciilifeform: cazalla clearly has insufficient reputation for poverty
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:56:22; asciilifeform: cultivate this reputation.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:56:30; asciilifeform: it may well save your skin
ben_vulpes: aha
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1BKC )
BingoBoingo: Some lite skinned indian motherfucker was trying to exhaust my mum's ISP connection by seeding torrents of tv shows available over the air. I am the anger.
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1LS7 )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if it makesyafeelbetter, a phriend of mine once pwned an indian spamwalla centre where they did this.
trinque: oh derp
trinque: !up deedbot-
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1QFl )
deedbot-: imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF
trinque: there it goes
asciilifeform must be off to sleep, and will leave you folks with http://engwonders.byethost9.com/e047.html
assbot: LONDON'S HYDRAULIC POWER ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1Wgl )
asciilifeform: ^ goes esp. for ben_vulpes
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The worst part is I know this had to have been targetted. Someone had to spend a non-trivial amount of time. I suspect a partcular name and yet... ☟︎
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: You ever smuggled living people out of Usia?
BingoBoingo: !up smidge
brendafdez: BingoBoingo hahah no :P
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: You ever try?
brendafdez: BingoBoingo selling staff on our local eBay was easier, laziness always wins for me
brendafdez: *stuff
trinque: staff lol
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: are you willing to listen to a story in 3 parts?
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1QFl )
deedbot-: imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF
brendafdez: BingoBoingo urm why not
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: So you know USia has federalism. The state level (Illinois in this case) defers to the county. In this case corrupt as St Clair county which contains East StL in its borders.
ben_vulpes: that looks like a good, trinque
trinque: ;;later tell mircea_popescu deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/thing.txt << still needs the colon, but now figures out whether it's a key or deed on its own
assbot: Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE2X7T )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: For the longest time allegedly St Clair county has tried to fuck with me. 7 hours ago St Clair county seems to have made the jump from fucking with me specifically to fucking with members of my family.
trinque: ben_vulpes: yeh how do I associate the fucker with my account?
trinque could be less lazy and poke nickserv himself
ben_vulpes: make a new nick
ben_vulpes: associate it with your account by specifying your existing email iirc
ben_vulpes: or register it or however that works
ben_vulpes: poop into #freenode, get cloak for it
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: I'm of dutch and not sicilian ancestry so I can't make strong promises of vengance based on besmirching the family name.
ben_vulpes: ask kakobrekla about it, he's savvy to bot dynamics
trinque: ben_vulpes: ah k, no special "dis here be my bot"
trinque: k
ben_vulpes: also you'll wnt to talk to kakobrekla about permavoice in any event
brendafdez: BingoBoingo over here in brendaland utc -3 is a good time for stories :P also i hate that it's too hot and can't sleep. I was trying to avoid selling more btc to get a/c considering winter is supposed to be coming
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: I do however feel much less safe here in the middle west than I did even 24 hours ago
BingoBoingo: <brendafdez> BingoBoingo over here in brendaland utc -3 is a good time for stories :P also i hate that it's too hot and can't sleep. I was trying to avoid selling more btc to get a/c considering winter is supposed to be coming << Bingo is not all powerful like MP, but for the right price could correct all of these problems
BingoBoingo wishes his adversaries in USia would Va a Chengarse
brendafdez: BingoBoingo right for whom ;)
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: How familiar are you with William James and his psychology?
brendafdez: I'm not sure if 'not at all' conveys the whole meaning of my degree of ignorance
BingoBoingo: Well one can always elaborate more
brendafdez: So your feelings of 'unsafeness', where do they stem from?
brendafdez: I mean
BingoBoingo: From being in the middle of a hostile wasteland
brendafdez: Leaving USia would be hard?
BingoBoingo: Some years I am surrounded by Corn, the others soybeans
brendafdez: Well, here in Arg there are soybeans aplenty
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: Well, I'd have to get further south than Mexico. They might want me for lab work
brendafdez: but if you live close to the field you'll likely get intoxicated by the monsanto crap+
BingoBoingo: I live very close to fields I am prolly lost in that way already
brendafdez: dunno, maybe they are slightly more careful with that over there
BingoBoingo: I've lived through a warm midwestern spring already where you can smell the pigshit on the beanfields. Not a thing to relive voluntarily
trinque: that's what the texas panhandle smells like
brendafdez: story is making me love the big town
brendafdez: oh hah
trinque: shit and chemicals
trinque: I drove through there moving to the pacific nw
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: If you want to love anything at all here you would love the St Louis Cardinals. best art show in the middle west
brendafdez: just move here to argentina already :)
BingoBoingo: I need a way out
BingoBoingo: I actually kinda want to visit the phillipines before argentina
brendafdez: tbh, I doubt I'd be able to get a US tourist visa even, at the moment
BingoBoingo: Eh, not really worth it. What is there left to see?
brendafdez: dunno, but even just for the language id like to go. I mean it's weird for me speaking english so much in the internet, and never having been to an en speaking place.
brendafdez: it was an enjoyable experience when I lived in Germany for a brief period, a couple of months, just getting to speak the local language gave me the thrills (I'm weird, I know :P)
brendafdez: There I fell in love with a Russian girl, it was in 2008, it was awesome that we'd both speak with each other in a language that was foreign for both, felt special, like being in bitcoin these days (? ☟︎
BingoBoingo kinda wants to it the phils before .ar to pick up a cheap wife ☟︎
BingoBoingo: German as a language is the suck
brendafdez: BingoBoingo if much of your feelings of unsafeness stem from local State corruption, you'd like it in Argentina. It's not that there's no corruption over here, on the contrary, but they get to interefere much less with peoples lives. The fact that people here see the US as the land of freedom really boggles the mind.
brendafdez: IT was the hottest thing ever, girl whispering in german softly to your ear... ahhh priceless.
BingoBoingo: That's the problem. Here they pretend no corruptness while being sooper corrupt.
brendafdez: even with her russian accent, only made it better
BingoBoingo thinks bagging a north Korean chick would be better than Everest
BingoBoingo: Just the German language doesnt allow for the flirting that makes the pursuit fun
brendafdez: They must be really cheap :P
trinque: ICH WILL DICH ☟︎
trinque: sounds like you're going to drain her blood
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: In USia everything is cheap
brendafdez: you can say it softly, but people tend to picture it in their minds with a Hitler voice xD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77236 @ 0.00030327 = 23.4234 BTC [+] {2}
brendafdez: then it the most un-hot language imaginable
trinque: brendafdez: admittedly probably more like rammstein
brendafdez: unless you're into Hilter-voiced people xD
brendafdez: yep
brendafdez: more like Rammstein
brendafdez: I could never bring myself to like them, but I liked bands that were such crap
brendafdez: I was still a teenager, so you can't blame me ;)
trinque: pissed off my parents, good enough for me in early teens
BingoBoingo: I've always found German the hottest when I though the Girl might bake me
brendafdez: :D
brendafdez: I need to find a foreign-speaking gf/bf/whatever soon, being with the locals doesn't compare
brendafdez: not that I have much success with the locals, either...
BingoBoingo: There was this hot German exchange chick in High School my sernior year evern though every class was equivalent of her Junior year. Let's refer to her a Kirsten Nao
BingoBoingo: Kirsten successfully corrected me away from monogamy
brendafdez: you're forever indebted with her
BingoBoingo: Maybe?
brendafdez: the sooner you fix that monogamy thing the better, me thinks
BingoBoingo: The getting off part is fine. I'm just not much one for the loving part.
brendafdez: St Louis Cardinals was a baseball team then? That was the art show? :P
BingoBoingo: It is totally still a thing. It is my favorite baseball team
BingoBoingo: The art show is the wa Wainright gets opposing pitchers out
BingoBoingo: It is serious art embeded in human motion
brendafdez: art is in the eye of the beholder, so I won't dispute that. I would however find it hard to see art in sport. It must be there, but generally I just couldn't care less. When there's a major sports event here, it means 'good time to go outside and take pictures of the empty streets and such'
BingoBoingo: Oh, I'm not talking about someone who throws the ball the hardest. I mean art. Waino tosses the ball among the most pleasing line.
brendafdez: Lots to learn, maybe I could appreciate it someday...
trinque: other than that, I don't know that the US is producing a lot of worthwhile art
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: You've been in .ar forever?
brendafdez: always lived here, yes, except for two months or so i lived in munich bc some stupid institute decided to foot the bill :D
brendafdez: apart from that, i've only travelled briefly to neighboring countries, like uruguay (many times), brazil (once), paraguay (once)
BingoBoingo: The best way I can explain baseball aesthetically then is as a dance where every movement holds the entire game at stake
BingoBoingo: It is neatly the opposite of the abortus which purports to host a "super bowl"
BingoBoingo: This scrawny dude is actually my favorite player http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carpema01.shtml
assbot: Matt Carpenter Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbTkFq )
BingoBoingo: Dude know how to avoid getting out
BingoBoingo: http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2015/03/19/dongle_history_etymology_and_word_and_sound_associations_explained.html
assbot: Dongle history, etymology, and word and sound associations, explained. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbTOvo )
fluffypony: I saw a Cards game in 2010 when I was in St. Louis
fluffypony: bought a Pujols t-shirt and everything
fluffypony: made the mistake of wearing that when flying out of Dallas to go back home, and had random people shouting "Go Cards!" at me
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: And then he left
BingoBoingo: It hurt
cazalla: brendafdez, while in Germany, were you a girl yet?
brendafdez: nope, i was presenting male :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49592 @ 0.0002928 = 14.5205 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up odyjm
cazalla: anyone read ukraineo
cazalla: http://forklog.com/sluzhba-bezopasnosti-ukrainy-bitkoin-ispolzuetsya-dlya-finansirovaniya-separatistov/ if anyone can translate accurately
assbot: Служба безопасности Украины: биткоин используется для финансирования сепаратистов | Bitcoin новости ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzMHdh )
BingoBoingo: ^ transaltion blows the fuck up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00030101 = 7.5253 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 259.0, vol: 11891.50982578 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 256.74, vol: 9534.25606 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 260.41, vol: 54648.2626453 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 263.56, vol: 3.05171398 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 259.907463, vol: 254519.98310000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 255.00001, vol: 3.10171189 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 265.0128, vol: 121.40926025 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
brendafdez: drunk and all you still care about the price? :P
BingoBoingo: Nah, I jsut wanna see the hipsters burn
cazalla: the old mircea_popescu pic complemented trilema, but this new one is difficult with MP staring at you while you read
brendafdez: it's scary
brendafdez: but we'll get used to it, i hope
cazalla: brendafdez, you don't care about the price?
cazalla: scary? i won't give him that :)
cazalla: how about.. i'm trying to read here, do you mind?
brendafdez: if i'm not gonna do anything based on that information atm there's no reason i should care...
BingoBoingo: ease it up
brendafdez: Don't drink and #b-a
BingoBoingo: Everyone here is here to read trilema basically
brendafdez: or thedrinkingrecord :P
BingoBoingo: lol, yeah
cazalla: fucking media here.. former PM malcolm fraser dies.. every politician gets his 5 minutes in every newspaper, twitter feed, radio stream to express what a great leader, game changer etc etc the dead guy was
cazalla: at least it seems that way anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81550 @ 0.00030275 = 24.6893 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68027 @ 0.00030506 = 20.7523 BTC [+] {2}
chetty: cazalla better they talk about that than whatever new evil laws they are up to
cazalla: chetty, that would be retaining meta data for 2 years
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1058040 <<< according to what you say it would be *most* people go that route, since the beginning of 2015 there are two deposits that could match an account creation, when there are 750 btc on the new accounts revenue line ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 20:22:56; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057738 << it is. people (especially people kinda too lazy to study things in depth) have all sorts of theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses etc. it's a fashion is what it is, one i don't aim to encourage, and i'm stuck because w/e, serving teh customer.
cazalla: as well as a black list to block sites like thepiratebay.. fraser's death couldn't have been timed better tbh
cazalla: the 2 year retention period is sorta bullshit anyway as it's the ISPs who need to keep the data for 2 years, but if a gov dept such as ASIO or the police request that data, they are allowed to keep it forever, so i'm sure they will just request all data so that they can keep it forever (if they aren't already doing it)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00029657 = 31.214 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00030524 = 1.4957 BTC [+]
davout: !up deedbot-
davout: deedbot-: add-deed http://dpaste.com/3QD6MT5.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BECOXf )
davout: trinque: ^ doth not work?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00030524 = 11.2328 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: trinque nice.
davout: ohai mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: heya
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00030525 = 19.4139 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: webmaster@extropy.org
mircea_popescu: aww.
mircea_popescu: !up DigitalDayTrader
mircea_popescu: with all this digitality of modernity, it turns out the postwar mobsters were eerily before their time.
mircea_popescu: "give us the money or we're taking your digits!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.0003053 = 2.1829 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059532 << it is ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 05:13:40; asciilifeform: the helicopter is the symbol of statal power against the peon schmuck
mircea_popescu: maybe in vietnam.
davout: i'd tend to agree with asciilifeform, what are all these US police helicopter-chase shows for if not for clearly asserting that "there's nowhere to run" ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059539 << same's said of sailing. meanwhile most people sailing or flying independently are actually poor, mostly on account of rich people not wanting to take that sort of risk. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 05:15:29; asciilifeform: but soon it was clear even to imbeciles that flying was an aristocrat's (or totalitarian thug enforcer's...) game.
mircea_popescu: davout but then again, they don't have to be FOR something. they may well just be BECAUSE of something, that something being "we got a helicopter"
davout: flying *is* pretty awesome :D
mircea_popescu: that in turn being because helicopters exist in the first place.
mircea_popescu: im sure driving a car is pretty awesome to fish, and for the same reason : "mamma mia if i crash this tank im fucked"
davout: does anyone know that pilot joke? "how do you know someone's a pilot?"
mircea_popescu: how ?
davout: he'll tell you
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: anyway, last fucking job you want in a conflict zone is flying the helicopters.
mircea_popescu: only job to score consistently under tradecraft for security.
cazalla: too many people were all "lulz, i lazered the pilot" here in australia so anything over 1mw.. banned
mircea_popescu: ... 1 mw ?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60981 @ 0.0003053 = 18.6175 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: oh oh mW not MW
cazalla: ya sorry, milliwatt
mircea_popescu: i was like omfg australia, large spiders, larger lasers.
cazalla: people were lulz lazering athletes at games too
davout: lelz, lasering pilots is so fucking retarded
cazalla: davout, yeah.. they coined it "lazer attacks"
cazalla: example http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/citys-worst-laser-attacks-on-aircraft/2008/03/29/1206207485440.html
assbot: City's worst laser attacks on aircraft - Travel - smh.com.au ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjGJnj )
davout: it's like everyone in the sky gets pissed at you, while the laserer conveniently gives a massive arrow pointing to his sorry ass
mircea_popescu: does calling it "attacks" make it moar important ?
davout: it *is* pretty dangerous
cazalla: everyone had these fucking things circa 2008, all from dx.com
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63150 @ 0.00029536 = 18.652 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "These gutless and cowardly attacks have to be stopped," he said. "I am preparing a proposal to cabinet to consider making these items a prohibited weapon."
mircea_popescu: davout it is ?
davout: just like retards flying drones in restricted airspace are dangerous as well
mircea_popescu: the drones i can actually see.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, the pollie that said that got busted for gay sex like a year later, clearly didn't want to play ball anymore (or did)
mircea_popescu: they're sort-of like turkeys, which have caused problems in the past, so planes have been shielded against them, so it no longer matters.
mircea_popescu: so they don't actually do anything, so nevermind.
davout: mircea_popescu: i hang around a bit on /r/flying, also watched a few vids of ATPs being lasered and yes, it does look pretty dangerous
mircea_popescu: not the original statement hm ?
chetty: humans, more and more clever ways to commit mayhem on each other.
davout: and it's not like you'll get lasered at high altitudes with the PA on and your cock in some flight attendant's mouth, you'll get lasered when approaching
mircea_popescu: davout and your windows won't protect you, because... antiglare's not been invented.
mircea_popescu: what do they do in the sun ?
davout: it will illuminate the cockpit, blind you, will take your mind off of your checklist
mircea_popescu: drop down those flaps like they have in the car ?
mircea_popescu: it won't fucking blind you.
mircea_popescu: it will iluminate the cockpit less than what fucking police lights do.
davout: my cessna has these flaps you speak of :D
mircea_popescu: what next, this is a legitimate car crash reason ? "police lights illuminated my cockpit your honor. let the police dept pay."
cazalla: damn, that is not a half bad idea
mircea_popescu: yw.
fluffypony: lol
mircea_popescu: "omaigawd stuffwas illuminated, i totally lost my trtain of thought. o look, unicorns!!1"
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this beating around the bush. here's to making the penis a dangerous weapon.
cazalla: the trajectory of the sun combined with the police lights and lazer mounted drone caused me to run down mr gavin by accident
davout: you don't want to miss shit on your checklist
mircea_popescu: no, you don't. so don't miss shit on your fucking checklist.
cazalla points green lazer at davout.. lol lazered
mircea_popescu: now, mind you, i'm the first to agree the lasers are fucking annyoing and the idiots wielding them need better hobbies.
mircea_popescu: but those facts don't make derpy lasers "weapons" and etc etc.
davout: "Pilots unanimously say that the effect of a laser-pen's beam in the cockpit is very similar to the effect of a car's high-beam headlights at a short distance -- it blinds you. The decision-making time before a landing is only 10 critical seconds, pilots say -- and these moments are not to fight green laser beams, but to make critically important decisions. "
davout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI7Qq1mYQlI
assbot: 'Laser attack' caught on tape: View from plane cockpit - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjH1dT )
davout: not saying that this is a good reason to forbid lasers, i'm saying they can be pretty dangerous
mircea_popescu: davout but that's not the cockpit, that's the cam.
cazalla: the australian law, at least as i see it, was more them saying, ok you've had your fun but no more of this please
mircea_popescu: and if maximally zoomed (looks about 16x) it very briefly shines.
davout: if that's the effect on the cam, it's not a complete stretch to say that you can believe pilots when they say it's blinding
mircea_popescu: pretty much exactly consistent with what i[ve been saying last time we did this laser thing
davout: and you have a larger view later on the video
mircea_popescu: well if you've ever used cams, it actually is, yes.
Adlai: you could achieve a similar effect against drivers with a cheap camera + servos aiming it... let's ban all electronics!
davout: it's unclear to me why pilots would make that up
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2015#1034826 << problem, blockchain on disk depends on the order in which it saw those 'orphans' ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2015 21:23:55; asciilifeform: if ends up with bitwise identical blockchain on disk (minus time data) then quite likely correct.
davout: instead of putting their shades on and shrugging it off
mircea_popescu: davout pilots did not make anything up. they say it's fucking annoying. im sure it is.
mircea_popescu: then bureaucrat drones are going on about weapons and whatnot, with nary a clue about anything but what could be persuasively argued to a mostly clueless public.
mircea_popescu: this is fine as far as the system goes, it's own "democratic" logic, et all.
mircea_popescu: but it's still ridoinculous.
mircea_popescu: davout you ever been with a group of professionals ?
davout: professionals in what field? aeronautics?
mircea_popescu: when met with any novel thing, the bulk will shrug and carry on, the 19% marginals will yak about it,
mircea_popescu: because it distracts from a discussion about how they suck, and people should fire them
mircea_popescu: in any fucking field.
cazalla: ima firen mah lazer
mircea_popescu: Adlai i suppose he meant bitwise identical star, to be translated as, same txn
Adlai: hm?
mircea_popescu: "if ends up with bitwise identical* blockchain"
davout: i think you underestimate the danger of having a laser pointed at you when you're doing an approach
Adlai: what [i think] you want is identical answers to whether a transaction is valid
mircea_popescu: davout that may be true.
mircea_popescu: Adlai you want the same exact set of transactions to have been accepted.
mircea_popescu: davout but it turns out, stuff like aegis cruisers don't have lasers installed to blind enemy pilots, dropped chaff isn't tiny shining laser pointers etc.
mircea_popescu: as far as weaponry goes, let's look at you know, weaponry.
davout: that's kind of like saying "if banana peels are dangerous, why don't the US marines carry them around" :D
Adlai: why aren't the terrorists yelling fire in crowded theatresL
mircea_popescu: the discussion wasn't if this is annoying or not, but whether the drone droning about weapons had a point. at least in my head.
mircea_popescu: wouldja say banana peels are weapons or something ?
mircea_popescu: for that matter, suppose some asshole runs around throwing banana peels right before people. and he gets busted for "assault with a dangerous weapon".
davout: they can be deadly if strategically placed
mircea_popescu: you gonna make that charge stick ?
davout: naaah
mircea_popescu: good cause there's all sorts of instructional videos on how to defend yourself.
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w
assbot: Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjHo8d )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89900 @ 0.00030584 = 27.495 BTC [+] {2}
davout: look, i'm not arguing that because they are annoying and potentially dangerous to aircrafts that gives a justification to anyone to forbid them, simply stating that retards will be retards, and annoy pilots in a sensitive flight phase
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suppose the difference between "this is slightly annoying' and "this is terrorism" has long been lost.
Adlai: so maybe, lobbyists looking for lobbies to lob should try to get all aircraft windows tinted
davout: mircea_popescu: sure
davout: few days ago in france: "terrorism is bad, let's lower the limit for cash payments from 3000 to 1000€"
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: no but seriously, someone could use 3k euros to buy a proper rifle + bullets.
mircea_popescu: 1k euros not enough for this.
mircea_popescu: course inflation'd have naturally fixed that over time.
mircea_popescu: (anyone notice how those "limits" are not yearly indexed, like govt pensions ?)
davout: "thank you for this kalashnikov, may i have my receipt"
cazalla: they're trying to push through mandatory sentencing for weapons here down under.. 5 years for trafficking hand guns etc
mircea_popescu: davout are you intimating the bureaucracy's ineffective because it lives in its own world anyway ?
mircea_popescu: fucking french terrorists.
mircea_popescu: cazalla "mandatory sentencing" is the most ridiculous perversion of justice ever.
mircea_popescu: essentially stalin's administrative powers thing.
cazalla: someone is breaking into my home.. best i call the police to come in 10m time because law does not permit me to own a shot gun to blast the cunt in seconds
davout: cazalla: BLAST IT WITH PISS
cazalla: davout, not even mine is big enough to kill loaded with booze
mircea_popescu: cazalla why not use lasers ?
mircea_popescu: now i understand finally the crazy shit stick on all sides of rifle bit.
mircea_popescu: all those tactical lights ARE REALLY WEAPONS
davout: mircea_popescu: to be honest, a strategically banana peel might be more effective in this particular case
davout: *placed
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: ;;google guy that crossed atlantic in a barrel died in new york, slipping on banana peel
gribble: Banana split: Worker peels back skin to find two fruits in one | Daily ...: <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1279150/Banana-split-Worker-peels-skin-fruits-one.html>; The appeal of peel: The surprising ways fruit and veg skins can work ...: <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2004070/The-appeal-peel-The-surprising-ways-fruit-veg-skins-work-wonders-looks.html>; (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: ^ real event.
cazalla: lazer illegal, plastic knife illegal (if used as weapon), baseball bat also illegal if kept in bedroom because no legitimate reason to keep it there, must fetch from car and come back to bedroom to beat off attacker
mircea_popescu: cazalla doesn't sound like much of a country does it ?
mircea_popescu: what the fuck "not much reason to keep it there". what fucking reason does uninvited third party have to be in your bedroom ?
mircea_popescu: let's start with that.
cazalla: not "not much reason" but no reason, why would a law abiding citizen keep his sporting equipment under the bed? surely it is in garage with the rest of the foosballs etc
mircea_popescu: because the wife's a stretcher ?
davout: cazalla: mebbe it's for butseks
mircea_popescu: seriously, nobody run the endless reels of "woman fucks baseball bat" for the court on that one ?
mircea_popescu: talk about dropping the ball.
cazalla: i could've claimed so with the ex gf but not this woman
mircea_popescu: so she's training for it.
davout: "she's starting by getting used to the bat's presence your honor"
cazalla: ex could've taken 2 tbh
cazalla: she was a champ like that
mircea_popescu: what, one in butt one in cunt, then walk on them ?
mircea_popescu: that'd be an act.
cazalla: nah 2 in cunt, guess 1 in the ass too
cazalla: damn, she was the best lay but would've made for a shitty mother
mircea_popescu: this is why one needs pairs.
cazalla: dependent on bitcoin, goes up enough, i have a place or two for such women
cazalla: as it is atm, no can do
mircea_popescu: well what's the rush.
mircea_popescu: gotta be unable to get it up, first.
cazalla: well, isnt any atm
mircea_popescu: then you can make comments to them about their black boyfriends and we can ostracize you and take your stadium away.
davout: hahaha
mircea_popescu: cazalla how do you know the shitty mother bit btw ?
mircea_popescu: afaik reformed whores make the best mothers.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, because she fucked around with shit like tramadol
mircea_popescu: ...
cazalla: she was fucking useless for anything else but sex
mircea_popescu: wait. how do you fuck around with antipyretics ?!
cazalla: a kid would be lucky to get 1 meal a day with such a woman
mircea_popescu: o wait, that's the opioid huh.
cazalla: i dunno, never tried it, she use to steal it from work place
mircea_popescu: well, reformed was in there for a reason.
cazalla: well i wouldn't know seeing i didn't stick around to find out
cazalla: i thought the naive virginal conservative wife would make for the best mother
cazalla: i made my bed, so now i sleep in it
mircea_popescu: conservatives don't make very good parents for that reason. kinda why nature put all the poop in the process, make sure it gets a fair shot.
cazalla: all the 10 inched black boyfriends in the world wouldn't make any difference for some types of women anyway
mircea_popescu: is 10 inches big or small these days ?
mircea_popescu: i've not been following the internet conversation.
cazalla: seems to be the average, but i dunno
mircea_popescu: average in what, horses ?
cazalla: i have nfi, too much to drink
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059635 << which is the manual ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 05:46:33; trinque: which... not the behavior in the manual
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059683 << eh get out srsly. it doesn't get any more random and unintentional than that. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 06:06:35; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The worst part is I know this had to have been targetted. Someone had to spend a non-trivial amount of time. I suspect a partcular name and yet...
cazalla: i tried to convince him of such in PM yet.. he convinced me drinking was a good idea (ok not really, not like i need much encouragement)
mircea_popescu: in other news, derpy mcsweater-glass and his two nude friends : http://40.media.tumblr.com/c3b9d92eacede7d95def9d6ee99f578b/tumblr_myjsgrcYzT1rjqog4o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjIocv )
mircea_popescu: cazalla lol you two need to stop drinking and buy coins from the proceeds.
mircea_popescu: end up richest dudes in b-a.
cazalla: i've prob pissed away 2-3k the past 12-18 months on booze
mircea_popescu: ah, nm, that's not so bad
mircea_popescu: i think i spent about the same.
cazalla: could be more, could be less, just a guestimate
cazalla: let's see
Adlai: 2-3k << ozd?
mircea_popescu: five bucks a day, that's like what, a drink.
cazalla: $60x78=4680 so sorta in range
mircea_popescu: you're supposed to drink that much just to keep the shit from migrating to your head.
cazalla: acutally i quit for years, sober as a judge
mircea_popescu: cazalla you ever seen "some came running" ?
cazalla: of course, i would not be rotting away where i will be monday if i remained sober lol
cazalla: nope
mircea_popescu: dean martin is this total drunk, and at some point he says to sinatra
mircea_popescu: "you know ever since you quit drinking you've been insufferable ?!"
cazalla: i prolly was, only took it up again a month or so before missus had baby
cazalla: in fact, i would harp on to my brother, who i lived with at the time, that he needed to quit drinking
mircea_popescu: did he ?
cazalla: not sure tbh, we didn't speak for a few years, only recently began talking again
cazalla: i assume he drinks though given he's back at the parents and god knows they drink
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059745 << ru chicks will take over the world. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 06:30:59; brendafdez: There I fell in love with a Russian girl, it was in 2008, it was awesome that we'd both speak with each other in a language that was foreign for both, felt special, like being in bitcoin these days (?
cazalla: geei hope not, can't say ruski women do it for me
cazalla: even the bond goldeneye girls were meh
mircea_popescu: ever had one ?
cazalla: well no, but
cazalla: i did work with a short haired ruski chick
mircea_popescu: well don't knock it fore you've... uh. you know.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059746 << you know that's the wrong way to go about the wife business. if you just want a cheap one the cheapest wife you could ever get is no wife at all. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 06:32:38; *: BingoBoingo kinda wants to it the phils before .ar to pick up a cheap wife
cazalla: mircea_popescu, not many down under, not like i'll ever leave
cazalla: so unless they come here..
mircea_popescu: brendafdez: The fact that people here see the US as the land of freedom really boggles the mind.<< they believe teh movies.
cazalla: plenty of chinese
mircea_popescu: cazalla used to know this chick, eventualy gave up teh life married some guy went to melbourne
mircea_popescu: im sure there's plenty in ozland.
cazalla: melbourne sucks
cazalla: not even sure why pete would waste his time coming to this shit hole
mircea_popescu: most everyone lives there neh ?
cazalla: there is nothing redeeming about it at all
cazalla: mircea_popescu, and sydney, yeah
cazalla: both are shit
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059755 << will = liebe ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 06:37:57; trinque: ICH WILL DICH
mircea_popescu: or wtf's that suppost to be
cazalla: they tear down anything old and replace it with modern architecture, and what they can't pull down completely, they subert the old by merging the new into it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00030614 = 23.5116 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: anyway, tasmania is best australia
mircea_popescu: lmao this log. im bashing this shit
nubbins`: http://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/resources/Laser-hazard-distance-chart.pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJ0Pa )
nubbins`: TIL mp doesn't think lazers in yr eyes are bad ;/
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSxDHW2MvBw
assbot: Seinfeld — Puerto Rican Day: The Apartment (HD) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJ5Co )
nubbins`: mircea_popescu:for that matter, suppose some asshole runs around throwing banana peels right before people. and he gets busted for "assault with a dangerous weapon". <<< now you're just shoehorning
mircea_popescu: that's a thing ?
nubbins`: sure is
mircea_popescu: "Shoehorning is a ploy used by psychics, or religious apologetic or other charlatans, as a way to make it sound like their prophecies or those of earlier prophets had come true. "
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoehorning << notwithstanding the bad grammar, that's one of the more representative wikipedia articles i dare say.
assbot: Shoehorning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJfK8 )
mircea_popescu: nubbins` anyway, why ?
nubbins`: idk about wikitardia definition, but you're just being pedantic 8)
nubbins`: suppose the asshole leaves a banana peel at the top of the stairs
nubbins`: "wasn't a weapon, whatcha gonna do"
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: what, you expect the law to intervene ?
nubbins`: before the fact? c'est impossible
mircea_popescu: before or after,
mircea_popescu: or in the commerce of bannanas.
nubbins`: isn't this much less circuitous than the original discussion 8)
nubbins`: but i guess you're more of a journey guy than a destination guy, hey
mircea_popescu: well i dunno lol. i tend to follow.
nubbins`: unrelated, i *just* clued into the mad hatter's hat from TTLG
nubbins`: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/114/114-h/images/alice38a.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJmp8 )
mircea_popescu: ;;ud ttlg
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=through+the+looking+glass | Similar to the twilight zone, where nothing is quite what it seems. In Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass book, it can mean clocks that work...
nubbins`: last 33 years: "why does his hat say 10/6?"
nubbins`: today: "wat, it says 'in this style' above it? o"
mircea_popescu: it's 10 shillings and 6pence.
nubbins`: nod
nubbins`: i did not have this knowledge last i read it ;/
mircea_popescu: so you figurted out british coin notations from "in this style" ?
nubbins`: stumbled across £sd notation a couple months ago
nubbins`: and today, stumbled across the mad hatter again
nubbins`: !up cazalla
nubbins`: mircea_popescu understand that this is akin to discovering jam is made from berries
cazalla: ty nubbins` fucking power out and i'm too drunk/tired to ferry shit back and forth over usb
nubbins`: i'm floored here
nubbins`: anyway bbl COSTCO
cazalla: is that where you get bulk corn sizzurp? (they got costco's here now)
cazalla: in fact, they have a costco just a few streets away from here, not that i've been.. pay for membership? fuck that, costco drastically underestimates australian refusal to pay for membershits
mircea_popescu: the romanian bulk supplier (metro) just wants you to have a company.
nubbins`: bulk vanilla extract too
nubbins`: srsly, 1L for the same price as the little tiny bottles the groc store sells
mircea_popescu: no wait, wrong one. selgros.
nubbins`: cazalla if you shop at costco ~3-4 times in a year, you're ahead
cazalla: nubbins`, doubt they sell what i buy
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: you don't buy food?
cazalla: of course i do
mircea_popescu: cazalla it's improbable. generally wholesalers carry everything everyone else carries + more + they sell it cheaper + they deliver.
cazalla: sure, if you don't mind eating shit shipped in from china
mircea_popescu: mno.
cazalla: mm tasty bleached ass garlic, make it nice and white like snow white herself
mircea_popescu: well it's not for produce, yo.
cazalla: then wtf would u buy from a place like costco?
mircea_popescu: well costco i never used, but in general cash & carry is where you buy a whole round cheese, that's actually grana padano etc.
nubbins`: costco actually sells top quality produce
cazalla: i get my meet/veg/fruit from local who supposedly provides australian grown produce (i am not so naive to believe that some scheming fuckers didn't figure out they could import shit from china and just label it grown in australia but what can you do)
nubbins`: best meat shop in the city too
nubbins`: anyway bbl
mircea_popescu: cazalla ok, meat comes from butcher, produce from grocer. these you don't buy at the warehouse, as there's really no need to warehouse them. but what about everything else ?
cazalla: for other speciality shit, i use farmhousedirect.com.au
mircea_popescu: the stuff that's usually called "colonials" ? the stuff that has to be impoirted 5000 miles away ?
cazalla: like what? give an example
mircea_popescu: so they carry filippo berio olive oil ?
cazalla: i use australian grown olive oil and macadamia oil
mircea_popescu: rio mare salmon paste ?
cazalla: we got salmon growing down tasmania
chetty: L&P
cazalla: farmed, but still
mircea_popescu: a whole range of french (president ?) and italian cheeses ? ☟︎
cazalla: got the wog deli en masse
danielpbarron: height=288329 vs height=213141
mircea_popescu: cazalla well then you don't need it.
cazalla: i can't imagine for a second that even if costco had this sorta food down under, that it would actually be cheaper or better quality
mircea_popescu: this is exactly the sort of doubt fit for an experiment.
mircea_popescu: i used your deli model in the us, and the cash & carry in ro. it all depends on the place really.
cazalla: then they can pay me to experiement
cazalla: the only people i see waddling into the costco here at fat asses
cazalla: and they sure as fuck are not spending good money on good food
mircea_popescu: that's not a bad heuristic.
mircea_popescu: "shop for food where people who look like you want to look shop for food"
cazalla: i show you last weeks order
cazalla: and then you fkn tell me if u get this shit at costco
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.0003062 = 14.1158 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: cat's got a thread! http://41.media.tumblr.com/7fc849c6bbc1b7bac3f2c13871445b8e/tumblr_mmap4wrUGR1r2x6jpo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjKk4M )
mircea_popescu: cazalla i have nfi what costco carries.
chetty: ever been to a costco MP?
mircea_popescu: maybe.
mircea_popescu: i dun actually recall.
cazalla: that usually means yes in my experience
cazalla: my missus tries the same shit.. oh i can't remember
chetty: hahah well its kaufland X3
cazalla: pls suck my dick costco and get the fuck out of my country with your made in china shit http://imgur.com/GgNi88n,twFcl5s,ABxl80G,BAl6CMj,xl80E2E
assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/199i7Mj )
mircea_popescu: chetty i imagine so.
mircea_popescu: cazalla omfg what is this, the sin of going into places ?
mircea_popescu: i don't recall if i ever had macadamia oil or not, either.
mircea_popescu: i guess i'll have to try this now.
cazalla: it's good shit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16941 @ 0.00030091 = 5.0977 BTC [-]
cazalla: the nuts are very creamy, and the oil is great for frying anything that is crumbed, like chicken
mircea_popescu: i don't do so much frying myself.
cazalla: fair enough, but i fry the fuck out of everything
cazalla: well not reary but i am partial to crumbed chicken fried the fuck out
Adlai: !up cazalla
danielpbarron: !up bhcoins this is you? -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=794678.msg8948683#msg8948683
assbot: [CLOSED] bhCoins Serie 3 0.1 BTC denominated physical Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/199jI4K )
chetty: highway robbery I tell ya, spen 83 pesos at the grocery
danielpbarron: most of my expenses are for food
mircea_popescu: "Why are the coins dated 2013 :/ because we designed and minted them last year, but we could assemble them last month.."
mircea_popescu: how do you assemble coins ?!
danielpbarron: there's a newer model i just found, but w/e
danielpbarron: "If you want to resell them, either include a hologram so that the buyer can generate a new private key or just don't assemble the coin." << what on earth is the point then?
cazalla: anyway going to bed, but i request la serenissima bequeath me the state of Tasmania so as to use it to grow the best shit
mircea_popescu: enjoy c man
danielpbarron: !up Bagels7
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060168 <<< president is french. it's shit though. would probably even be legal in uslandia ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 13:02:49; mircea_popescu: a whole range of french (president ?) and italian cheeses ?
mircea_popescu: davout sorta minimum level of camembert i can live with.
davout: fair enough
mircea_popescu: but im going to forcefeed you "industria argentina" camembert just to make this point.
davout: tbh, what's the most important with camembert, is to not eat too early when it's not "made"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122814 @ 0.00030152 = 37.0309 BTC [+] {2}
davout: obviously it doesn't go in the fridge either
mats: danielpbarron: do a public service and tell those people holos can be beaten
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98686 @ 0.00029524 = 29.1361 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00030622 = 4.9914 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: it doesn't sound like anyone is using those things for more than a novelty; they aren't even funding the things for fear of depreciating value
mircea_popescu: meanwhile over at decadence camp, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhxrh6pprt1qbujxso1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/199mZB0 )
mircea_popescu: davout also helps if it's not made out of tyres.
pete_dushenski: top o' the mornin' !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75800 @ 0.00029327 = 22.2299 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: cazalla: not even sure why pete would waste his time coming to this shit hole << being a tourist =! being a resident
pete_dushenski: despite the crazy minimum wage and resulting cost of food, australia is perfectly enjoyable place to visit for a few weeks.
pete_dushenski: beautiful architecture, wildlife galore
pete_dushenski: by the standards of la serenissima, most everywhere is full of stupidheads derping about with delusions of self-importance
pete_dushenski: australia isn't markedly worse than canada and in many ways preferable.
pete_dushenski: cazalla: your opa could've come here just as well and you wouldn't have been necessarily better off
pete_dushenski: yet by the measures of most of the world, this is still 'the land of milk and honey'
pete_dushenski: if one ends up here, today, wherever they're from was a successful stepping stone.
pete_dushenski: and couldn't have been otherwise.
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/20/the-straw-that-broke-twitters-back/
assbot: The straw that broke Twitter’s back. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/199pdAs )
thestringpuller: oh a pete_dushenski
thestringpuller refreshes contravex
pete_dushenski: heya dude
pete_dushenski: ^tis right there for ya
pete_dushenski: me, saying sayonara to social media
kakobrekla just returned from his fiat bank - what a terrible experience.
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: ikr!
pete_dushenski: went with a friend who wanted 6 months of statements from her pc
pete_dushenski: because of course, they weren't available online
mircea_popescu: !up FrankU
pete_dushenski: so at the branch, they charge her $xx and then tell her that the statements can't be printed out then and there and have to go to another city for review, then they'll be shipped to the branch, then she'll have to come back and pick them up
pete_dushenski: my jaw hit the floor.
pete_dushenski: this, for some simple bank statements
kakobrekla: sounds about right.
mircea_popescu: scam.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15845 @ 0.00030622 = 4.8521 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: seriously, reminded me of the spa lady health club scam
mircea_popescu: dude, check it out, pete_dushenski was punished by the holy redditard empire for his murdersome streak.
mircea_popescu: either that or just got bored.
pete_dushenski: i like the sound of 'murderous streak'
pete_dushenski: *murdersome
pete_dushenski: pass some of dat murder
pete_dushenski: o hey nasdaq 5k. again.
mircea_popescu: "with stun guns on mounted on their heads"
pete_dushenski: ef.
pete_dushenski: fixed. ty!
mats: S&P is quite high too...
mircea_popescu: time to meet teh parents http://40.media.tumblr.com/b3b451526b36c461256b93216a70a44b/tumblr_mhpfg9rNk21rln4dzo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/199q6ZP )
mats: must be the cheap petrol.
danielpbarron: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150320130957
assbot: OpenSSH 6.8 Released ... ( http://bit.ly/1OdTkat )
danielpbarron: Add FingerprintHash option to ssh(1) and sshd(8), and equivalent command-line flags to the other tools to control algorithm used for key fingerprints. The default changes from MD5 to SHA256 and format from hex to base64.
pete_dushenski: also fixed footnote ii in that last one. i'm asleep at the wheel here.
danielpbarron: with you off twitter, that puts me in the #2 spot for WoT user with most followers?
pete_dushenski: behind... ?
danielpbarron: !gettrust assbot copumpkin
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user copumpkin: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/copumpkin | http://w.b-a.link/user/copumpkin
pete_dushenski: "A bug bounty hunter, Laxman Muthiyah, discovered a critical flaw in the Facebook Photo Sync feature and Facebook API that could allow any third-party app to access your personal photos from the hidden Facebook Photo Sync album." << lel that sm.
pete_dushenski: ah https://twitter.com/copumpkin
assbot: Dan P (@copumpkin) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoMZAM )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.00029928 = 16.0414 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: of the regulars though, you're #1 !
danielpbarron: ah wait, ageis also has more :<
danielpbarron: and jyap
pete_dushenski: quality, not quantity, is the name of the game.
pete_dushenski: remove thee from the bezzle-mindedness
PeterL: what percentage of your followers are people you have never actually met in person?
danielpbarron: is this some "irc != irl" thing?
danielpbarron: who cares if i've met them?
PeterL: have you met everyone on irc?
PeterL: I was just curious?
danielpbarron: no
danielpbarron: i've met kyuupichan
danielpbarron: that's it
PeterL: my facebook is 100% people I know irl, my twitter is more like 5%
danielpbarron: that is, he's the one guy in here that i didn't know outside of b-a and have met him in person
danielpbarron: i think my twitter followers are higher quality than my facebook friends
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00028923 = 13.3335 BTC [-] {4}
danielpbarron: this is real life. right in here.
danielpbarron: this is more real than most of the stuff people say "in person"
mod6: ya, irc has no substitutes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43550 @ 0.000294 = 12.8037 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: lol without IRC this would be a BBS (in som alternate reality)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48700 @ 0.00029447 = 14.3407 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron> this is more real than most of the stuff people say "in person" << well yeah but that's more a function of how boring most people are.
thestringpuller: http://imgur.com/VB7m7nq << >:(
bitstein: So, guys, how's the weather?
PeterL: springy
pete_dushenski: bitstein: spring yesterday, snow dump today, cake tomorrow
bitstein: pete_dushenski: birthday?
pete_dushenski: nah, soviet joke lol
chetty: cake is always tomorrow
PeterL: the cake is a lie
pete_dushenski: nah, tomorrow is a lie
bitstein: https://i.imgur.com/4tbzb7a.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FKNzNU )
pete_dushenski: if only tomorrow could be today, then cake !
pete_dushenski: bitstein: ayup
Naphex: o/
Naphex: mircea_popescu: http://www.romania-insider.com/mcoin/144725/ looks like you got cited :D
assbot: Romanian sells house for 55,000 Mcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ExDTSJ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00030019 = 11.8125 BTC [+]
fluffypony: wtf is an Mcoi
fluffypony: *Mcoin
Naphex: some MLM Ponzi scheme that has been hypeing in Romania lately
Naphex: http://trilema.com/2015/catre-ministerul-afacerilor-interne-in-atentia-d-lor-gheorghe-nicolae-petre-toba-bondar-marin-si-d-nei-laura-codru%C8%9Ba-kovesi-dvs-stiati-ca-angajatii-dvs-se-ocupa-cu-frauda-pe-internet/
assbot: Catre Ministerul Afacerilor Interne. In atentia d-lor Gheorghe Nicolae, Petre Toba, Bondar Marin si d-nei Laura Codruța Kövesi : Dvs stiati ca angajatii dvs se ocupa cu frauda pe Internet ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/19F7h1A )
trinque: sorry davout, I changed the syntax on you
trinque: in teh logs
trinque: !up deedbot-
trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3QD6MT5.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19F7ody )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
trinque: donk
trinque: shall go out at the hour
mats: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/nyregion/mark-strand-80-dies-pulitzer-winning-poet-laureate.html
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/19F7Zfr )
trinque: mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059635 << which is the manual ? << tried geting rid of that colon by making the bot parse all messages for commands, not just highlights, and making deedbot- the command. didn't work, seems it should. I'm going to poke tenyks' author today to find out what's smart ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 05:46:33; trinque: which... not the behavior in the manual
trinque: punkman1: can I get "deedbot" from ya?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00028838 = 12.1985 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 9.36 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 113.22817126 BTC. Current weight: 87,607.
trinque: !up deedbot-
trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt ☟︎
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1LS7 )
deedbot-: imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF
trinque: mircea_popescu: ^
trinque: davout: http://deedbot.org/348443-15Fjyuen5G7eic5JJfQJjj133kLtcbcxV1.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19FapKR )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92065 @ 0.00028819 = 26.5322 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41698 @ 0.00028819 = 12.0169 BTC [-]
mike_c: kakobrekla: that price! http://query.bitcoin-assets.com/?data=trades&since_id=121698
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19Fb6Ec )
mats: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo07.pdf new PoC||GTFO
kakobrekla: mike_c "type":"21"
mike_c: oh. yeah.
mike_c: odd that never broke my shit before.
mike_c: anyways, thanks. my fault.
kakobrekla: it was broken for a long time
kakobrekla: recently got fixed and now causing trouble down the line ☟︎
mike_c: it's odd, because i explictly skip anything not in [0, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15]
mike_c: or at least, it's supposed to.
kakobrekla: dunno
mike_c: dunno what? what the hell is wrong with my code??
kakobrekla: mhm
mike_c: ;;calc 0.0028819 / (0.00000029 * 12)
gribble: 828.132183908
mike_c: ;;calc 0.00028819 / (0.00000029 * 12)
gribble: 82.8132183908
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 300 @ 0.00364196 = 1.0926 BTC [-] {6}
mats: ramtin-amin.fr/#tristar looks like Apple Lightning has been broken
mats: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coflynn/chipwhisperer-lite-a-new-era-of-hardware-security
assbot: ChipWhisperer-Lite: A New Era of Hardware Security Research by Colin O'Flynn — Kickstarter ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEYXVi )
chetty: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://dpaste.com/2NEWGPY.txt << from mats's link (pure gold)
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZgPO )
ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo07.pdf << mega-talmud of lulz
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZgQ1 )
ascii_field: recommended to all
ascii_field: if you don't have a machine that can show 'pdf', find one just for this occasion.
ascii_field: mats: very neat.
ascii_field: http://dpaste.com/0QFRVZR << missed a page earlier
assbot: dpaste: 0QFRVZR: Cyber Criminal’s Song ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZman )
trinque: ehehe hilarious
chetty: hahahah someone was a zork fan;You happen to see a note on the ground, a splotchy Hilbert curve napkin sketch followed by a handwritten
chetty: table of hexadecimal numbers with uncertain names scrawled nearby.
ascii_field: Aha.
ascii_field: GO NORTH
mats: lol
danielpbarron: the "print instructions" assume you're on a debian variant (most likely for ubuntu users)
ascii_field: only in that 'apt-get'
danielpbarron: i guess if you're not on something debian you probably know how to convert that string into something useable
ascii_field: i normally just read that as a shorthand for 'install on your box...'
danielpbarron: ubuntu user would be like "wtf is emerge ??"
fluffypony: pacman -S
ascii_field: 'He passed away in 2008, a paragon of sticking to just the prescribed amount of murderous blood-thirstiness at any given time, a true knight of the Party Line -- and, if there is ever a Hell, doubtlessly sticking Hell's engineers with the problem of how to reward such a sterling life achievement of toeing it ever so precisely. There are many shitty jobs in this world and the one beyond, but, believe in Hell or not, that
ascii_field: one takes the cake.'
ascii_field picks self up off the floor
ascii_field: that thing contains the single best 'lysenko for dummiez' i've ever seen in english
ascii_field: mircea_popescu ^ consider for use on n00bz
ascii_field as an amateur scholar of crackpottery and malignant pseudoscience, owns the complete works of mr lysenko
ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo << 0-7
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZVRs )
trinque: ascii_field: a quick google suggest this guy was off his rocker
ascii_field: trinque: not any more so than, say, a pope.
trinque: heh
trinque: the guy got dissent against lamarckism outlawed?
ascii_field: aha.
trinque: that's how you secure your legacy right there
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53796 @ 0.0002863 = 15.4018 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo05.pdf << p. 27 mega-l0l, demonstration of RDRAND-as-hypothetical-backdoor on x86
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BF0I4U )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28978 @ 0.00028439 = 8.2411 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo04.pdf << p. 22: 'Lenticrypt: a Provably Plausibly Deniable Cryptosystem; or, This Picture of Cats is Also a Picture of Dogs'
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeKycz )
ascii_field has not yet read it but, the title alone, l0l
felipelalli: My dear gang noise, did you guys see THIS: http://blog.btcjam.com/2015/03/19/btcjam-introduces-risk-based-pricing-interest-rates-set-automatically-by-credit-score/ ?
assbot: BTCJam Introduces Risk Based Pricing (Interest Rates Set Automatically by Credit Score) | BTCJam Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeLayK )
felipelalli: I'm crying here. :'( The simply just killed the BTCJam.
felipelalli: &They
gribble: Error: "They" is not a valid command.
felipelalli: *They
felipelalli: Anyone can write about this on qntra.net? They just eliminate one of the best features of BTCJam. ☟︎
danielpbarron: felipelalli> My dear gang noise, did you guys see THIS << ya they sent me an email for some reason
danielpbarron: to be fair, things like btcjam are already dead; this is more like shooting the zombie in the head so that it stops trying to feast on brains
ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo03.pdf << article on pg. 5 about 'fits in head' - pure gold
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeMIZG )
ascii_field: ('greybeard's luck')
felipelalli: danielpbarron: :'(
felipelalli: but really
felipelalli: I'm so sad and so so so so fucking crazy with this.
felipelalli: R.I.P. BTCJam. It was a nice service!!
danielpbarron: wait.. you were serious?
felipelalli: why not?
danielpbarron: did you lend on it or borrow?
felipelalli: both
danielpbarron slaps felipelalli around a bit with a large default
felipelalli: why do you think services like BTCJam are already dead?
felipelalli: They are getting worse, but dead just with this decision.
danielpbarron: they aren't in the WoT
felipelalli: At least you can associate OTC in that.
felipelalli: I know their reputation system is a crap.
felipelalli: But it is a nice and useful service. ☟︎
felipelalli: The ugly true is that we have no options.
felipelalli: That's why it is good. Because we don't have better options.
danielpbarron: but you .. do!
danielpbarron: in here
felipelalli: But now I have ZERO option.
danielpbarron: that's because you had ZERO ideas worth investing in
ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo03.pdf << pg. 18: demonstration that intel -could- have diddled RDRAND instruction in such a way as to undetectably manipulate linux rng in spite of xor lemma
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeO3iV )
trinque: ascii_field: is it possible to use random data from multiple sources that are diddled, but by different manufacturers, and get usable random data?
ascii_field: trinque: read the linked piece
trinque: k
felipelalli: danielpbarron: I'm sad. They killed a service that I was using for years. It isn't that good, but...
ascii_field: trinque: spoiler: recall that the XORing also happens on same cpu
danielpbarron: and people were using piratat40's "service" for a while too
ascii_field: and therefore manipulable.
ascii_field: see also last week's thread re: specificity of diddlage
felipelalli: danielpbarron: but do you think BTCJam was a crap from the start to end?
danielpbarron: yes
felipelalli: danielpbarron: how do you lend money?
felipelalli: or borrow?
ascii_field wishes he could buy the entire issue of the 'pocorgfo' in hard cover archival paper
ascii_field: as it comes out, even
danielpbarron: i don't except with very close associates and even then i'd really rather not
felipelalli: danielpbarron: so, you are not the target, that's why you are not worried.
danielpbarron: ;;later tell nubbins` ^ job opportunity
gribble: The operation succeeded.
danielpbarron: felipelalli, get more WoT connections in here and maybe you can borrow money
ascii_field: why would anyone want to borrow btc ?
danielpbarron: that's what I'd like to know
ascii_field: if you can reliably turn x btc into kx for some nonzero positive k,
danielpbarron: i know a guy (Birdman) who borrows it to play poker
danielpbarron: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: then you don't need to borrow, just start with epsilon
ascii_field: and end up with as many as you want ☟︎
danielpbarron: well he always loses it
danielpbarron: that's why he always needs to borrow it again
trinque: that's uh, not borrowing
ascii_field: and someone, knowing this, wants to lend ?
felipelalli: danielpbarron ascii_field many reasons, like arbitrage for example. But you can borrow linked to USD or BRL.
danielpbarron: felipelalli, like what ascii said, if that were profitable you should already have a stash with which to work
felipelalli: that what exactly? Borrow?
ascii_field: felipelalli: linked to usd << can go borrow usd right now, trivially ☟︎
danielpbarron: if you have some arbitrage opportunity, and it's worked in the past, you should have bitcoin from last time to make it work again this time.. so why the need to borrow?
ascii_field: as many as you like
felipelalli: danielpbarron: but and in the first time?
danielpbarron: well you seem to be well past a first time.?
danielpbarron: and yeah, go borrow fiat, buy bitcoin, make money, sell some bitcoin, repay loan
felipelalli: borrow fiat where?
felipelalli: in the bank?
danielpbarron: idk, i have credit cards
ascii_field: felipelalli: friendly local mafia
danielpbarron: every week i'm getting new offers
danielpbarron: i have a stack of those prepaid return envelopes
danielpbarron: :D
felipelalli: Depends on situation. For example: I had to spend some unforeseen money and I didn't want to climb a mountain to get my bitcoins, so I got a loan with a very low interest rate. ☟︎
felipelalli: Yes, I store my bitcoin in a coordinate.
danielpbarron: it's so risky borrowing bitcoin; it's ruined lives ☟︎
felipelalli: danielpbarron: it is linked with USD :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26869 @ 0.00028369 = 7.6225 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: i really doubt your secret mountain wallet is as secure as you imagine
felipelalli: the bitcoin is just the mean.
felipelalli: danielpbarron: well, I have some backups.
felipelalli: danielpbarron: but I am a geocaching player and yes, it is very secure.
danielpbarron: i don't doubt your physical hiding abilities
mats: rofl
danielpbarron: i doubt 1) your entropy generating abilities 2) your not telling a secret when a hot iron is inserted into your body abilities
felipelalli: danielpbarron: I have to go now! :) I'll write an article about this bad move of BTCJam soon. Thank you.
felipelalli: danielpbarron: 1) well, you will never know. 2) don't put all your eggs in the same basket.
ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo02.pdf << p. 3 article, 'on importance of tools' << pure gold
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeS0o0 )
danielpbarron: oh btw i got my ADA reference manual; things quite nice. it's from a public library and it looks as though nobody ever checked it out
danielpbarron: someone pointed out to me that if i wasn't already a terrorist suspect, buying the reference manual to the language for airplanes isn't going to help that image
danielpbarron: !up Bagels7
trinque: danielpbarron: order a nodejs book and throw them off
ascii_field: order 'anarchist's cookbook', get on the 'harmless idiots' list ☟︎
trinque: well, that wasn't the right keybinding
Adlai: ascii_field: lies, there is no whitelist
ascii_field: brownlist
trinque: I'll go out on a limb and say they're not rounding up people for derping on IRC
trinque: as much as that would make one the star of one's own action movie
ascii_field: with enough effort, can get rounded up for derping with goose quill pen on parchment ☟︎
chetty: <trinque> I'll go out on a limb and say they're not rounding up people for derping on IRC//yet
trinque: chetty: maybe, years can make the inconceivable inevitable
trinque: seems like you have to go directly after them pretty hard before they kill you
trinque: not... buy an ada book
trinque: michael hastings had what seems to me a long life by most measures of govt oppression
ascii_field: the 'honest man hanged by six words he wrote' is not hanged 1/6th of the way by each
ascii_field: but trinque's observation brings to mind one of mine
trinque: ascii_field: well I think I'm echoing a sentiment I've heard from you; I wont be grabbing my rifle any time soon
trinque: just waiting
trinque: and educating myself
ascii_field: every day when i wake up still alive, i know that i have not yet achieved anything.
trinque: hah! that's about right
kakobrekla: eh s.nsa is still young
danielpbarron: !up mariorz
jurov: s.nsa has grandiose achievements (planned)
danielpbarron: !up yrashk
jurov: they'd make for shiny eulogy
trinque: !up ascii_field
jurov: btw i don't get how would such data mining work.. someone would have to collect all the information first
jurov: and more importantly, before or after collection, query for certain books and irc channels ☟︎
ascii_field: jurov: no, this is the naive picture
ascii_field: the way it works, when it works, is that moles actually take the trouble to read (or even provocateur...) in the forum
ascii_field: (whichever forum)
ascii_field: and slowly, meticulously form a picture of who gets the red carpet to the gasenwagen and when
jurov: i can see that, except for slowness or even meticulousness
mircea_popescu: mp whining in 2012 that there's no rifled bullets. commenter fixing it, today : http://trilema.com/2012/o-idee-practica/#comment-113197
assbot: O idee practica ✭ pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeWFpU )
mircea_popescu: amd hi all!
jurov: hello
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: rifled projectiles for smoothbore barrels are sold in every hunting shop in usa
mircea_popescu: yeah well...
mircea_popescu: romanian ok ? easier audience.
ascii_field: jurov: normally you can tell who are the 'basic' shills by noting their assumptions (of their marks being dumb as shit) - see, e.g., mr moarspam: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2015#1014388 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 03:30:16; asciilifeform: also claimed to be working on a 'military' path to sovereign moldbuggistan, which screams 'provocateur'
mircea_popescu: course that may just select for dumb willful people.
ascii_field: zap the predators, zap their prey - we don't need either for anything
mircea_popescu: mmm
mircea_popescu: their prey is usually someone's mom.
mircea_popescu: take BingoBoingo's earlier drunken rageorgy.
ascii_field: not speaking of generic sp4mz0rz here
ascii_field: but of provocateurs
mircea_popescu: not sure that resolves it.
ascii_field: like the one in linked thread
mircea_popescu: naphex ahahaha romania-insider, you should see that thing o gawd.
mircea_popescu: best english is lulzy english.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field aite working my way there,
[]bot: Bet created: "BTC to top $500 before June 29th" http://bitbet.us/bet/1130/
trinque: anybody know punkman's status? wanted to get the bot squared away with a proper nick, then get that autovoiced
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060348 << sweet. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 16:57:04; trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt
trinque: if I can't get deedbot, I'll just do it with the dash
mircea_popescu: ;;seen punkman1
gribble: punkman1 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 11 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <punkman1> command line deed grabber: curl -s http://deeds.bitcoinyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ | grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?=</text)" | base64 -d | sha256sum
mircea_popescu: ;;seen punkman
gribble: punkman was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 58 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <punkman> https://twitter.com/neweraesthetics/status/574869026817601536
mircea_popescu: punkman yo
mircea_popescu: hm.
mircea_popescu: !up Mrstickball
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060364 << lol win ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 17:32:01; kakobrekla: recently got fixed and now causing trouble down the line
mircea_popescu: felipelalli: My dear gang noise, << new one.
mircea_popescu: anyway, is btcjam just about cooked up enough to go belly up or does it still have thread to survive this year ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060428 << i dunno that anyone ever took them seriously. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:03:25; felipelalli: Anyone can write about this on qntra.net? They just eliminate one of the best features of BTCJam.
brendafdez: I was searching the logs and couldn't find a way to sort by date ascending. Tried setting the start parameter to a value close to the total number of results, but it won't take values greater than 5000. :( Is there a way to do it?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060448 o.O. See http://trilema.com/2015/btcjam-what-starts-as-a-scam-stays-a-scam/ ? or maybe https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-btcjam-peer-to-peer-bitcoin-lending.67541/page-21#post-1330880 ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:13:49; felipelalli: But it is a nice and useful service.
assbot: BTCJam : What starts as a scam stays a scam pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAelGZ )
mircea_popescu: but anyway.
mircea_popescu: brendafdez i thought search automatically sorts by time, descending ?
danielpbarron: brendafdez, beginning of public log -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-04-2013#1 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-04-2013 00:01:30; pgp3: just looked at chart... shit... a couple hours can be an eternity in bitcoin land...
[]bot: Bet placed: 2.5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before June 29th" http://bitbet.us/bet/1130/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.6 BTC. Current weight: 99,994.
brendafdez: I was trying to see the first messages in the chan by each user. If a user has say 50000 messages, I can't find a way to see the pages with the earliest 45000.
mircea_popescu: oh.
mircea_popescu: yeah i think you found a problem that can't actually be resolved with currently available tools.
danielpbarron: that's a feature! nobody wants their first words to be seen again :p
mircea_popescu: lol.
brendafdez: ok :P then it'll have to be done the hard way ;)
mircea_popescu: it is sort-of a feature, you only get to see the noobish beginnings of people newer than you.
kakobrekla: meanwhile http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from:brendafdez&start=180
assbot: 184 results for 'from:brendafdez' - #bitcoin-assets search
brendafdez: works only bc I have less than 5000
kakobrekla: a
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060482 << well yes but maybe it's a one shot thing. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:20:31; ascii_field: and end up with as many as you want
trinque reads davout's latest deed.... gpg on win 3.1??
trinque: seems I'd sooner airgap a bsd or something, but if it works it works
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86800 @ 0.00028414 = 24.6634 BTC [+] {4}
trinque: is there some ancient processor which has an rng that works?
trinque: !up punkman1
trinque: deedbot- or notary? punkman1 has notary grouped atm
trinque: !up ascii_field
trinque: mircea_popescu: ^
trinque: eh it's already deedbot lots of places, probably best with the current nick
trinque: punkman1: lose your primary nick?
punkman: nope
ascii_field: trinque: rng in ic is a dead concept right off the bat
punkman: trinque, I think Ragnar had "deedbot" account, you can ask him
trinque: RagnarDanneskjol: ^ lemme know if you'd like the current deedbot to use that nick
punkman: http://xm42.com/
assbot: XM42™ | The Ion Productions Team ... ( http://bit.ly/1xmQnzv )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060490 << no, not for him, and not for most of the third world. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:23:04; ascii_field: felipelalli: linked to usd << can go borrow usd right now, trivially
mircea_popescu: if you imagine random guy in this world can borrow for any purpose you're nuts. all banks lend to nat'l government and us government only.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: speaking from the chumpatronic jail here, just about any schmuck can get at least 5 digits of loansharkamatic without breaking a sweat
ascii_field: (at extortionate interest, but that's a separate question)
mircea_popescu: sure, but uniquely usian phenomenon.
mircea_popescu: AND this is for the great benefit of everyone else, because nobody is as poor as usians.
mircea_popescu: just, you know, everyone thinks they're speshul. but if i were a natl bank governor i wouldn't allow the derps to borrow either.
ascii_field: it is used as the real primary taxation mechanism
mircea_popescu: "get an education get a house get insurance get a wife" etc. sure.
mircea_popescu: but still.
ascii_field: schmuck wants to live in a house, owes $maxint, pays interest until dies
mircea_popescu: i think bynow college > housing, but yeah, same idea.
trinque: nobody under 30 expects to own a house anymore
mircea_popescu: that's cool, because nobody over 30 owns one, either.
trinque: rent forever, never pay off student debt
mircea_popescu: expectations coming to allign with reality is a measure of emerging sanity
trinque: of course, property taxes underneath all the other "it's not really yours"
trinque: or forfeiture
Adlai wouldn't be surprised if not only http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-03-2015#1039710 but also it contains a few houses too ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 09:14:51; mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone in the wot ever actually starves.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060503 << and here we go. nothing to do with money everything to do with household cashflow ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:25:24; felipelalli: Depends on situation. For example: I had to spend some unforeseen money and I didn't want to climb a mountain to get my bitcoins, so I got a loan with a very low interest rate.
Adlai: though the wot isn't exactly your average "nobody over 30"
trinque: I got paid to go to college and still left
ascii_field: i have a fairly solid expectation of starving eventually
ascii_field: so gotta disagree
ascii_field: (somehow didn't notice that thread..)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i had an article about how all us citizens should have a solid expectation of being homeless eventually
mircea_popescu: it's just what the numbers say
mircea_popescu: (% of homeless people, life expectancy of homeless people, life expectancy of general population, -> over 50% or some shit)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060505 << you familiar with the experience of that one guy who borrowed in 2011ish toi make a point, was still paying on it by 2013 ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:26:02; danielpbarron: it's so risky borrowing bitcoin; it's ruined lives
Adlai: mircea_popescu: how's that work, you're saying homeless people have longer life expectancy?
mircea_popescu: much shorter.
danielpbarron: probably; i've read the horror stories on the forum
Adlai: then why would most people have an expectation of being homeless eventually!?
Adlai: or is the theory that homelessness is a stage just before death
mircea_popescu: think of it in terms of particles : if muons live a second and meons an hour, and at all times 10% of particle population is muons, then what changes does a meon to turn into a muon during its lifetime ?
ascii_field: Adlai: in usa, if your income nulls out you turn into a bum generally within one business quarter
trinque: mircea_popescu: hm is this where the declining soviet population went? a different x% croaking on the street per year?
trinque: ascii_field: ^
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
mircea_popescu: s/changes/chances/
mircea_popescu: felipelalli if you write some apologetic pos about how toejam is an actual service it's not getting published. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "all the other rags" is the proper venue for that sorta nonsense.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060523 << this lol ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:35:24; ascii_field: order 'anarchist's cookbook', get on the 'harmless idiots' list
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060529 << this actually hapepned ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:40:39; ascii_field: with enough effort, can get rounded up for derping with goose quill pen on parchment
ascii_field: first one that comes to mind is giordanno bruno
danielpbarron: according to the mythology taught in US public school, ya
ascii_field: but yes, complicated (TM)
mircea_popescu: last one not first one.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45050 @ 0.0002872 = 12.9384 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060549 << someone's not been paying attention TO ALL THE ALLCAPS DEPRAGE. TEMPEST. WHOREFEST. MUCUS. ANTIETAM. ETCISAWORD. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:53:04; jurov: and more importantly, before or after collection, query for certain books and irc channels
mircea_popescu: trinque hastings was born before me wtf. this is a long life now ?
mircea_popescu: s/before/after.
trinque: mircea_popescu: when imagining overt dictatorship I'd think so
mircea_popescu: i don't think any human population can be stable with lifetimes averages < 30.
mircea_popescu: the population simply collapses at that point. think cockroaches.
ascii_field: re: starving: at any rate, starvation is also what they do to 'problematic' folks in usa instead of shooting, typically
ascii_field: blackballing - traditional
trinque: oh we're fucked; I just don't expect that the men in black are coming for me because I said I like bitcoin
mircea_popescu: ascii_field problem is we're rich. this can no longer work for bitcoin.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is rich
ascii_field is not remotely confusable for rich
mircea_popescu: the plan is of course to use it extensively on anyone related to usg, starting with the press, starting with idiot whores a la leah goodman and idiot venues a la newsweek
mircea_popescu: but it onl;y works that way
mircea_popescu: ascii_field not you and me per se. bitcoin, itself, going for 10bn dollah nao.
mircea_popescu: too far.
trinque: ascii_field's comment about having accomplished something put it better than I did
ascii_field: 'you'n me will burn in this here tank, but red army triumphs' (tm) /
ascii_field: ?
mircea_popescu: you were discussing economic warfare omg.
mircea_popescu: "you and i might not care or know, but someone in the capitalist club is financing the new lightbulb"
mircea_popescu: and the discussion of how this works - already, for that matter - is right above : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060676 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 20:38:54; mircea_popescu: felipelalli if you write some apologetic pos about how toejam is an actual service it's not getting published.
mircea_popescu: one day newsweek will need to borrow and find itself unable to.
mircea_popescu: and some other day, usg.
mircea_popescu: as you say, it's called blackballing.
ascii_field: yeah, but right now the who-whom is pointed the other way.
mircea_popescu: nope
mircea_popescu: it only works one way.
mircea_popescu: modern weapons yo. they only work in the hands of the proper people.
ascii_field: rly. so mykotronx is holding bake sales to build nsa crypto garbage, and s.nsa is baking diamond ternary ram ?
mircea_popescu: nope.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: I understand. Thank you.
mircea_popescu: but there's nothing anyone can do to prevent s.nsa from baking what it bakes
mircea_popescu: whereas mykotronx can stop tomorrow, and that tomorrow is coming.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: 'It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.' (some american derpmeister in the '60s)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field compare, for it is informative, cisco's experience with bitbet's experience.
mircea_popescu: cisco was caught working with usg, lost 90% of sales in onequarter.
mircea_popescu: derp fucked up on bitbet, it turns out bitbet is not a consumer venue, sales doubled that quarter.
ascii_field: then we find out that it doesn't actually need sales for anything
mircea_popescu: this is what it is, and the most important dynamic since combustion engine.
mircea_popescu: of course it does.
ascii_field: it gets to carry on derping by order of the tsar-god
mircea_popescu: not in any sense useful, that.
trinque: tsar god can't declare things into existence
mircea_popescu: imagine your daughter fails exams, now can't go to school. so what, you make her a mini university out of cardboard, and while the other girls to go school
ascii_field recalls learning with alarm as a little boy that there was ever such a thing as a reichsmark. 'couldn't hitler simply order shit done?'
mircea_popescu: she derps with puppets in the foot tall "campus" ?
ascii_field: lol i live in that campus.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, i gtg, we shall continue this argument tomorrow
mircea_popescu: and day after,
mircea_popescu: and all days until the one day, because it seems our fate :D
ascii_field: lulzatronix.
nubbins`: *:ascii_field wishes he could buy the entire issue of the 'pocorgfo' in hard cover archival paper <<< judging by the second-page notes, you can
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00028308 = 6.1145 BTC [-]
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: Where can I find objective arguments against BTCJam? As a lending service and reputation system? And what are the alternatives for P2P lending or we don't have? They have 113,000 users, should they be ignored? ☟︎
danielpbarron: oh speaking of things nubbins` can print; how about an official Qntra business card?
danielpbarron: felipelalli, the alternative is right in here
nubbins`: danielpbarron no doubt
nubbins`: silkscreened business cards are ++
danielpbarron: well i don't necessarily want to design one, but if that sounds like something the other qntra writers would want, I'd like a stack of them with my name on it if that's ok
nubbins`: felipelalli how many users does windows xp have?
nubbins`: should they be ignored? 8)
nubbins`: danielpbarron if you guys figure somethin out between yourselves, i can print a batch all at once to save on setup
danielpbarron: that's what i mean :D
nubbins`: we print them something like 36-up, so you could have w/e number of designs/names/etc you wanted
nubbins`: "Th is i s how t o c o n v e r t an i s s u e f o r d u pl e x p r i n t i n g ."
nubbins`: right on
nubbins`: asciilifeform these things look great
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
felipelalli: nubbins`: in other words, should they be ignored? :)
felipelalli: danielpbarron: Thank you! Next time I'll try it! :)
nubbins`: felipelalli you tell me 8)
nubbins`: point being that yes, many people can be wrong
nubbins`: asciilifeform you'd be looking at around $10-15 for a softcover / staple-bound issue of this sent to your door
nubbins`: depending on page count
felipelalli: nubbins`: but I would like to collect the cons arguments. I was using the service for a while and it was nice, except the reputation system. But yes, without a good reputation system, it is worthless. :/
nubbins`: sounds like "it is worthless" is a pretty big con.
ascii_field: nubbins`: which 'this'
ascii_field: nubbins`: the whole set ?
felipelalli: nubbins`: :) huge.
nubbins`: sorry, just grabbed a random issue
nubbins`: let me get a full page count here
nubbins`: issue 6 recommends printing it on ledger
felipelalli: I said to BTCJam CEO: "mircea said BTCJam is not even a service" he said "who is this?" and then tried to convince me "other people disagree with him"
felipelalli: I was trying to convince him that don't let the users choose the interest rate is not a good idea.
danielpbarron: well it's an obvious path for them to take considering the thing is a scam attractor
nubbins`: ascii_field say around a hundred bucks for issues 00-07, 8.5x11" footprint, staple-bound
ascii_field: staple bound ?
ascii_field: as in, iron staples ?
BingoBoingo: I have the most intense hangover ☟︎
nubbins`: i'd have to check the type of metal
ascii_field: ugh
ascii_field: not booklike at all
nubbins`: almost certainly steel
nubbins`: hey, i can hand-sew, but you're not gonna like the price
felipelalli: he said they have a "learning machine" to determine the correct interest rate, but it is a joke don't let the free market decide its own rates.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43300 @ 0.00028308 = 12.2574 BTC [-]
nubbins`: once you start sewing bindings, you commit to labour-intensive cover attachment
ascii_field: ah
ascii_field: it was worth a shot. thx for the phree quote, nubbins`
ascii_field: but i can laser print and perforate as well as the next guy.
nubbins`: nod
danielpbarron: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
assbot: Gmane -- Re: stable Linux ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Lp8K )
danielpbarron: point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.
nubbins`: it's only around $30 of materials
danielpbarron: Security people are often the black-and-white kind of people that I can't stand. I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.
nubbins`: truthfully it's the fact that all the setup work is being done for a single book
nubbins`: if you wanted, say, even a half-dozen copies, different story
ascii_field: nubbins`: yes, like circuit boards
ascii_field: nubbins`: i routinely use 'print on demand' houses when i feel like getting xxxx in dead tree, but the result is invariably just a little better than what i can do at home
ascii_field: not one can do 'lay flat' cover, for instance ☟︎
ascii_field: (other than with perforator and spiral binding)
danielpbarron: i might buy one if there are enough people in the pool
nubbins`: you'd be surprised how tricky it is!
ascii_field has bound books by hand and is not even slightly surprised
nubbins`: heh. well, there y'go.
ascii_field: but fact remains, there is no automagickal machine for it
nubbins`: let me find some drool shots
ascii_field: like there is for the crappy bindings
ascii_field: danielpbarron: linus is wrong, but very few people seem to grasp the reason why
nubbins`: http://imgur.com/2C4E5GP,20B9ktJ,SEDrede,EPI6Pww,pxZ4arA
assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXV9C1 )
ascii_field: !s malice incompetence
assbot: 21 results for 'malice incompetence' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=malice+incompetence
nubbins`: 5th image shows the kind of corners a thousand-dollar book plough makes.
danielpbarron: did that 0.5.3 source ever become a book? maybe put that on the list of things I'd buy if enough people in pool
ascii_field: danielpbarron: it did not
nubbins`: danielpbarron it was shelved at the time
ascii_field: danielpbarron: because i'm not interested in reading crud
danielpbarron: basically anything ascii wants in book form, I would probably also want ☟︎
nubbins`: until such point is reached that the code is worthy of bookifying
ascii_field: remember, b00kz only work if you... read'em
nubbins`: nobody wants to pay me to typeset a piece of shit for 20 hours 8)
ascii_field: nubbins`: what is a book plough ?
ascii_field: cutting press ?
danielpbarron: S.BOOK needs to be a thing maybe
nubbins`: cutting press sounds like a fair synonym
nubbins`: http://www.louet.nl/en/bookbinding-vertical-plough
assbot: Louët :: Vertical Plough ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Mpd5 )
cazalla: BingoBoingo, how much piss did you sink last night?
nubbins`: you can find youtube vidyas of same
ascii_field: most folks source, rather than sink, piss
ascii_field: nubbins`: betcha a laser would work
nubbins`: mayhap. but it'd singe the pages?
nubbins`: the edges this plough makes are as smooth as fucking /glass/.
cazalla: ascii_field, we do things different down under :)
ascii_field: nubbins`: surprisingly little burn if cut correctly
nubbins`: wild
ascii_field: but yes, they'll turn black
nubbins`: http://www.talasonline.com/
assbot: Talas || Professional Archival, Bookbinding, Conservation and Restoration Supplies ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXW0CQ )
nubbins`: ^ source of all things bookish
nubbins`: their print catalog is a particular joy
ascii_field: bookbinding is rather like music in a sense
nubbins`: harkens back to the first time i rcv'd a mouser catalog
nubbins`: oh, it's 100% an art
nubbins`: you can't teach it
nubbins`: ...or maybe i just can't be taught it 8)
ascii_field: in the sense that a typical artisan binder would probably react to my laser suggestion the same way my musical friends react to the suggestion of connecting my air compressor to the tuba ☟︎
nubbins`: hahah.
nubbins`: hey, if it gets the job done.
nubbins`: although TBF an old-timey bookbinding setup is still an incredibly efficient way to work
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Half of a handle
nubbins`: i've done staple-binding, perfect binding, kettle stitch binding... eventually i'm gonna have to order some board and cloth
nubbins`: at which point things will come full-circle and i'll be silkscreening fabric for the covers of silkscreened books
ascii_field: reference bitcoin - board & leather.
cazalla: what's that.. a bit over 700ml.. damn that's a good effort BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: Yeah, got myself good and pickled
nubbins`: ascii_field there's a woman in town who's been binding for years, has an ancient letterpress setup. i'd say she'd at least know where to point me for leather work
nubbins`: you opposed to sealskin?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: sealskin works
nubbins`: fair warning, animal lovers may resent you for it
Adlai: needs a good dropcap, style of http://croquersamuse.voila.net/images/Web%20DSCN4701.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9NLEG )
nubbins`: seals are uh, "special" mammalia. they're cute enough that their harvesting produces outrage
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108500 @ 0.0002829 = 30.6947 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: Adlai religious texts are ++++ for those
Adlai: is bitcoin deserving of 'religion' status?
Adlai: being in the wot qualifies you for overseeing marriage in 2020 england, kind of stuff
ascii_field: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3238352932884994@naggum.no.html << obligatory naggum
assbot: Re: Common Lisp vs Scheme - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9NSjK )
ascii_field: (last paragraph)
danielpbarron: nubbins`> fair warning, animal lovers may resent you for it << so.. win win :D
ascii_field: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3237396100556424@naggum.no.html
assbot: Re: Why I can't use Lisp. - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXXJIn )
ascii_field: ' I went to my local bookstore the other day. I wanted to give a beautifully bound Bible to a Christian friend of mine. Suddenly, I felt space around me warp and I was in USENET space. People from comp.lang.scheme offered me a beutifully bound Torah. People from comp.lang.dylan offered me a beautifully bound Koran. People from elsewhere on the Net offered me beautifully bound copies of The Lord of the Rings, Atlas
ascii_field: Shrugged, A New Kind of Science, and then other people chimed in with suggestions for Gray's Anatomy, The Chicago Manual of Style, and the 25-year anniversary edition of Gödel, Escher, Bach, all of them arguing that if I wanted the most important book, I would want their suggestions. I scremed, "Enough!", and space just as suddenly warped back to the bookstore and the very helpful young Muslim woman behind the counter
ascii_field: went to find a soft-leather-bound Bible with gold edges on the India paper, just like I had wanted and asked for, without unwelcome suggestions or anyone pretending to know better than me. It was so respectful I almost got religion, myself. '
danielpbarron has a stack of Bibles
ascii_field: danielpbarron: varying translations or just bindings ?
danielpbarron: one of the best places to get like-new Bibles is a used book store ☟︎
danielpbarron: bindings mostly
danielpbarron: although i have a spanish one
danielpbarron: but mostly KJV
danielpbarron: i'd like more NKJV but they just aren't as widly produced
nubbins`: friend of mine has a ton of bibles
nubbins`: he's got one that's a reproduction of the 1st-edition gutenberg bible
danielpbarron: actually maybe nubbins` can help me there; I have this really nice pocket Bible with a zipper and real leather, but it's KJV and i'd like it in NKJV
danielpbarron: probably way out of my price range though
nubbins`: they don't sell nkjv bibles w/ zippers and leather?
danielpbarron: http://g.christianbook.com/dg/product/cbd/f400/146074.jpg << i think it's this one
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXYG3g )
danielpbarron: nope
danielpbarron: not as small as that ^ one
danielpbarron: that also has the "references" B.S. which I don't need -- I'd rather have the NKJV alternate transation footnotes
nubbins`: better ask News Corp, i guess
nubbins`: http://viewer.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/icv/page.php?book=arch._b_b.11&page=409
assbot: Arch. B b.11 - pages ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXZ9lZ )
nubbins`: ^ check out the missing paragraph break, top right
danielpbarron: i don't understand what i'm looking at
nubbins`: http://bav.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/field/image/gutenberg_203r_0.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9PRo6 )
nubbins`: that's what a paragraph break looks like
nubbins`: the red and blue ink were added afterward, by hand, and the printer left a blank space for them
nubbins`: nicer embellishments by the rubricators meant a higher selling price
nubbins`: in the previous example, no such space was left for the number and the painted letter
nubbins`: so various solutions were used for various copies
nubbins`: that one's a particularly uh, embellished example
nubbins`: "The "great majority of incunables did not issue from the press in a finished state ... hardly any incunable was considered 'finished' by its printer ...", suggesting that hand rubrication provided a sense of legitimacy to the efforts of early printers and their works."
danielpbarron: i don't need fancy thingys; just the whole NKJV text pocket sized with a zipper so the pages don't get messed up when i travel with it but w/e my KJV works well enough
jurov: btw, i was always curious what is one supposed to do with the bible all the time?
jurov: i was like okay, read it like any other book
danielpbarron: sometimes in arguments people are like "oh yeah where does it say that!?"
nubbins`: jurov i think it's used more as a reference manual than a novel
ascii_field: ... and there's also bibliomancy.
nubbins`: danielpbarron why not just get a similarly-sized NKJV and swap it out?
danielpbarron: i'm not sure one even exists
danielpbarron: i ordered what was described as "pocket sized" and it turned out to be much larger
nubbins`: http://www.amazon.com/Smallest-Bible-NKJV-Black-Closing/dp/0840784465
assbot: The Smallest Bible (NKJV, Black, Snap Flap Closing): Thomas Nelson: 9780840784469: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9QMF9 )
jurov: from experience i surmised it's used to find accurate projection for inner turmoil
danielpbarron: yeah i've seen that one
nubbins`: not quite a zipper
jurov: scratch that accurate. any projection.
nubbins`: jurov what else ya gonna do w/ turmoil
jurov: nubbins`: esoteric/new age stuff is more soothing
nubbins`: enya doesn't have any answers
jurov: i did not say anything about answers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60900 @ 0.00028185 = 17.1647 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: they can be had by observation, not by projection anyway
jurov: !up ascii_field
nubbins` slow claps
nubbins`: next you'll tell me that taking anti-anxiety meds won't help resolve deeply-rooted personal issues 8)
jurov: no, obv only bible can do it
danielpbarron: ^ ++
trinque: https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/a4658f4eccc8a8e6338a8711c0291706/tumblr_mmbfq0apsW1r92643o1_500.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BY28Ln )
nubbins`: that is *not* how you make a secret compartment in a book.
trinque: nubbins`: along spine?
trinque: wasn't a proposal though :p
nubbins`: you're supposed to soak the entire book block in water+glue, then press it til it's dried, then cut the hole out
trinque: ah, makes sense
nubbins`: https://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5215851/il_570xN.181912317.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SC8S )
BingoBoingo: http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150320/archer-heights/150-firefighters-battle-extra-alarm-fire-archer-heights-thursday
assbot: Huge Fire Breaks Out at Fire Extinguisher Factory in Archer Heights - Archer Heights - DNAinfo.com Chicago ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SExv )
nubbins`: or even better, http://www.instash.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Hollow-Book-Safe-With-Flask.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SCWr )
trinque: !up brendafdez
trinque: !up brendafdez
trinque: brendafdez: might want to make sure your client auths before join
trinque: dunno if ddos is a problem anymore, but it has happened
brendafdez: trinque yes i never bothered to configure it properly
brendafdez: it still is, at least as of last week i got ddosed when entering the chan
trinque: bothering has its benefits
brendafdez: indeed
trinque: !up mollison
nubbins`: man, this Roko's Basilisk is some straight-up bughouse stuff
trinque: nubbins`: ever read I have no Mouth and I Must Scream?
trinque: kind of reminds me of the AI in that
nubbins`: nope
nubbins`: i'll check it out
trinque: good story, not directly related
trinque: this idea that an exact duplicate of me *is* me seems absurd on its face
trinque: part of the basilisk thing
trinque: so you've got two hammers, and they're identical to the atom
trinque: their position is irrelevant to the question?
thestringpuller: brendafdez: what time is it in argentina rite meow
trinque: "Per Yudkowsky's conception of continuity of identity, copies of you in these branches should be considered to exist (and be you) — even though you cannot interact with them."
trinque: that sentence is so fucked
trinque: you cannot interact with you ☟︎
trinque: but you are you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00028106 = 8.8534 BTC [-]
trinque: I took a look at less wrong a while ago, and decided I could find an easier fetish
Adlai: it's like saying that in The Prestige, whatsisname is a mass-murderer... he's not, he just fork()s
brendafdez: utc -3 1949
trinque: Adlai: so? I'm experiencing subjectivity, whatever the fuck that is, *here* and definitely not *there*
trinque: that there are an infinite number of copies of me with the same arrangement of atoms does not change that fact
nubbins`: ^
trinque: and that thing is what I identify with, that my experience of being is right fucking here
jurov: someone go grow a finger from yudkowski's dna and tell him you have the rest of his clone in cellar ☟︎
nubbins`: heh
fluffypony: http://i.imgur.com/HAQJsaQ.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Vi6q )
nubbins`: lel
danielpbarron: the word you're looking for, trinque, is soul
trinque: danielpbarron: one way of putting it
trinque: and I think a better way than not considering it at all
trinque: danielpbarron: seems so many people try to argue themselves out of the obvious fact of their own being
trinque: dunno if I put that clearly at all
trinque: there's a mental defect where one considers himself to be an idea ☟︎
danielpbarron: right
trinque: so if I change my thoughts about myself, I change?
trinque: no.
danielpbarron: you would necessarily die if chopped up into bits and uploaded
danielpbarron: the thing on the other side would think it is you, but it wouldn't be you
trinque: it is hard for me to draw conclusions about that scenario because uploaded is not at all defined
trinque: but yeah, I am *here*, *this*, and *now*
trinque: and no other imagined thing
trinque: and only to myself, I can't disclose that thing to anyone else
trinque: or to the religious, "himself before god" or something
danielpbarron: it's another tower of babel for man to think he can write a program to simulate his own brain better than it already is
trinque: hubris for sure
trinque: I like asciilifeform's mind amplifier concept
trinque: telescopes and so on, not some new created "being"
danielpbarron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltY41KxzXY << LOL
assbot: OpenBSD: most secure OS in the planet, the movie! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9WjLO )
trinque: peaches oh my lol
Adlai: trinque: right. the child process sees itself when dereferencing 'self'
Adlai just finished the alpha version of his twist on actors/csp
trinque: Adlai: dunno how far the programming metaphor goes; explain?
trinque: I enjoyed that movie
jurov: if you don't do fork but just spawn threads? what is self there? ☟︎
trinque got really like, far out, man, one time and concluded that his language processing bits were not the only thing he is
trinque: I do not think there's a verbal definition of being
trinque: can't grab it with that
nubbins`: no, but do enough lsd and you'll find a non-verbal definition
trinque: nubbins`: right-o
nubbins`: dat ego death
nubbins`: fair warning, that's a one-way street 8)
Adlai: trinque: let's say harriezer has a 4d scanner, which he uses to capture the entire state of your brain, down to the atom. he then simulates twenty copies of this brain, each in its own simulated universe. even if you believe that there would now be 21 conscious trinques, the other twenty would be distinct from you. kinda like finding out about an identical twin that was separated from you at birth.
nubbins`: and much realer than rololol's basilisk ☟︎
trinque recalls flopping around in front of a couch, saying to no one, "holy fuck, this is me!"
danielpbarron has done "enough lsd"
trinque: the flopping, lol
Adlai: in the prestige, the magician does pretty much exactly this with tesla's copy-teleport machine
nubbins`: Adlai not to mention that in the very next arbitrarily small slice of time, each of those 21 sets of atoms is now in a different state
trinque: Adlai: yeh agreed they are distinct
nubbins`: unless you're bringing quantum tunneling into it 8) ☟︎
Adlai: nubbins`: actually, i'd maintain the same even if harriezer's simulators recreate exactly what happens to trinque's brain in real time
nubbins`: danielpbarron the concept of "enough" varies from person to person!
nubbins`: nod
Adlai: whether the identical programs on identical hardware ever read from /dev/random is another matter
Adlai: but either way, they're still separate instances
Adlai: even if their 'state' is identical
nubbins`: if you accept the multiverse as an axiom, there are already infinitely many copies of the universe in which the entirety of states that the atoms of your brain will ever arrange themselves in are precisely identical
nubbins`: Adlai they're fungible!
Adlai: yes. in such a multiverse, there are an infinite number of identical 'people', but each one thinks of itself as itself. the others are fungible, but the self is unique.
trinque: I'd just ask Yudkowski "how are all of you feeling today?"
trinque: he can't answer that
trinque: knows he's full of shit
trinque: it's barely worth considering
trinque: no subjective experience can travel across his abstact bridge
trinque: *abstract
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061016 << let's analogize that to http://www.legiontheory.com/ ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:04:33; jurov: if you don't do fork but just spawn threads? what is self there?
assbot: Legion Theory ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Yb7c )
trinque: Adlai: dennett went down that road too as I recall
trinque: the "pandemonium model" of mind?
Adlai: yes, and feral neurons
Adlai: http://www.meltingasphalt.com/neurons-gone-wild/
assbot: Neurons Gone Wild | Melting Asphalt ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Yjne )
trinque: still in my experience there is a distinction between that which is thought and the singular experience of observing that
Adlai: sorry, dennett himself is at http://edge.org/conversation/the-normal-well-tempered-mind
assbot: THE NORMAL WELL-TEMPERED MIND | Edge.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Ynn2 )
trinque: thoughts do seem to all compete for attention
trinque: attention seems like one thing
Adlai: you've never had a thought spring fully-formed into your mind ?
trinque: certainly
trinque: what you're calling "your mind" I'm calling attention
trinque: the observer
Adlai: sure
trinque: probably danielpbarron's soul
jurov: lol "we don't know what is a consciousness? let's say it is composed of many of itself" ☟︎
trinque: jurov: heh!!!
Adlai: cf https://xkcd.com/1489/
assbot: xkcd: Fundamental Forces ... ( http://bit.ly/1MRP7rs )
Adlai: specifically, "Of these four forces, there's one we don't really understand." "Is it the weak force or the strong--" "It's gravity."
jurov: and where thoughts come from... brain is dreaming all the time, there are easy exercises to access this stream at any time
jurov: plus there is some pattern matching mechanism between tdreaming and external stimuli
jurov: to choose what is being processed further and verbalised
trinque: jurov: had the thought once in meditation that I was always... hm... thinking everything I've ever experienced all the time
Adlai: someone (iirc dennett) lamented that everybody has their own theory of consciousness, as though this was a bad thing!
jurov: i've tracked myself many thoughts back to that dream form
Adlai doesn't (yet) see any use to the theory of consciousness beyond discussing it
trinque: that is certainly so
trinque steps back from the lsd flashback, gets another beer
jurov: at least my theory is useful in practice. just close eyes and watch what's happening, no need to be bored ever again
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90000 @ 0.00028424 = 25.5816 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: jurov: also good to review whatever's slipped in there while one's distracted
Adlai: note that you can actually get cevs by doing just this, if you can keep your eyeballs from moving for ~5 minutes
jurov: it's pointedly nota mediatation in "think of something that is nothing" sense
danielpbarron: Adlai> note that you can actually get cevs by doing just this, if you can keep your eyeballs from moving for ~5 minutes << i used to do this when getting lecured by my mother as a child
Adlai: ahahaa
jurov: what's cev?
danielpbarron: OEV though
Adlai: closed-eye visions
trinque: man when I was a kid, I'd have bizarre dreams
Adlai: or visuals
trinque: had one where I asked god what it meant to not exist
trinque: at around 7
Adlai: http://psychedelicfrontier.com/perception-scope-how-conjure-open-eye-visuals/
assbot: The Perception Scope: How to Conjure Open-eye Visuals at Will - Psychedelic Frontier ... ( http://bit.ly/1MRQoyL )
trinque: lots of others involving apolcalyptic subjects
trinque: the scenarios the mind can simulate... I'd like a pill someday that causes lucid dreaming
nubbins`: train yourself for it
nubbins`: take melatonin, and every time you touch a doorknob or a light switch in waking life, ask yourself "am i dreaming?"
trinque: I run a business, too reactionary atm
trinque: if I fall asleep at all I'm good
nubbins`: eventually the habit will cross over
Adlai: the idea is to build a habit of doubting whether you're awake
nubbins`: and you'll find your dream-self holding a doorknob wondering if you're dreaming
trinque: I'll try it out
nubbins`: i had a roomie who did this with moderate success
jurov: i'm all for moderation. not immerse yourself in it, just be aware of the stream
Adlai: https://medium.com/@Grayfox/the-hacker-who-drank-ayahuasca-517148aa1ed4
assbot: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9ZROf )
nubbins`: jurov classic explanation of LSD action is that it removes the filters that your brain normally automatically applies to that stream
trinque: Adlai: that one's on the list for when I can take a long enough vacation
jurov: s/automatic/learned
trinque: 2c-e was a hell of a journey once upon a time
trinque: seems like it messed with whatever simulates the world visually in the brain
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48133 @ 0.00028538 = 13.7362 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: found thoughts escaping out into the things I was seeing around me
trinque: that kind of thing
Adlai: literally, psychedelic = manifesting the mind
trinque: ah, there you go
nubbins`: jurov ooh, i like that, +1
trinque: shapes would form in front of me that corresponded to concepts, or so it seemed
jurov: lol you insist on psychedelic and whatnot. i'm about normal brain function ☟︎
jurov: this: http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm
assbot: Project Renaissance, Image-Streaming ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa0bMV )
trinque: it is probably utterly american of me to desire the right technology to experience such things
Adlai: not really insisting, but the wagon is not moderate
jurov: "Contrary to recent general belief, virtually every human can quickly and readily learn to "get pictures" in his mind's eye, thus becoming able to do visual thinking."
trinque: as opposed to the right practice
jurov: heh technique. can't get any simpler than trying to describe what comes to mind
trinque: jurov: hm, seems just like what one does telling a story to another
jurov: when you're telling a story you're doing it to some purpose
jurov: this is describing whatever is happening in the brain
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asciilifeform: the whole 'copy isn't you' thing is pure unadulterated vitalism, however.
asciilifeform: it is no accident, incidentally, that chemistry went nowhere until vitalism was banished from it
asciilifeform: and physics ground to a screeching halt when bohr reintroduced it to physics
asciilifeform: the answer to 'is the copy you' is 'shutthefuckup you're asking a broken question' ☟︎
asciilifeform: (while you read this paragraph, it is quite likely that at least one of your neurons died. and wasn't even replaced with a copyable mechanical one, at that. are you 'still you' ? and moreover, do you find the question itself interesting, or the answer being something that matters ?)
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nubbins`: re: neurons gone wild
Adlai: well, you do become 'less yourself', until there's nothing left... although it's a more complex process than just cells dying ☟︎
nubbins`: you apparently see at comic-con type events a lot of people who have an "other self"
nubbins`: generally some sort of furry
Adlai: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/ninds_neuron.htm#death
assbot: The Life and Death of a Neuron: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa3gMN )
asciilifeform: nubbins`: to find people with 'more than one self' you generally have to visit more than one asylum
asciilifeform: (most 'multiple personality' cases are really just schizophrenics playing games. ask a specialist)
Adlai: ah, that word again
nubbins`: 8)
trinque: asciilifeform: well yeah, I think defining self is meaningless
trinque: but saying that is distinct from saying it doesn't exist
trinque: can I tell you what it feels like for me to type this?
nubbins`: asciilifeform i published an (embellished) bio of a man with schizophrenia
Adlai: most people roleplaying at conventions aren't even as 'dissociated' as a good method actor
nubbins`: *autobio
trinque: there's an experience happening over here, and it has an extent
asciilifeform: nubbins`: yeah i recall the thread
trinque: the extent of that experience will not expand when you duplicate me
Adlai: and it's a stretch to say that professional actors are schizophrenic, although many of them do seem to fear zoltan
nubbins`: there's a large chunk of the book that could be misidentified as schizo by the unqualified observer ☟︎
nubbins`: but it's really just runaway thoughts
nubbins`: coupled with hypothetical "suppose this strawman was ME" type clauses
trinque: now hell, "you"
trinque: you is a broken concept for sure
asciilifeform: trinque: you say this, and so will the copy
trinque: asciilifeform: right, indistinguishable to you
asciilifeform: and then mircea_popescu walks in with a '45 and asks which one to shoot ☟︎
trinque: however a copy of you would be distinguishable to you
asciilifeform: which me
asciilifeform: l0l
trinque: doesn't matter
Adlai: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/15/answer-to-job/
assbot: Answer to Job | Slate Star Codex ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa3DqR )
trinque: each is distinct to itself
nubbins`: "which do i shoot" "either or, but not both"
trinque: asciilifeform: seems like you're thinking from an imaginary 3rd person perspective
trinque: all that matters to whichever me is me, is uh... me
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: but unless you posit some bit of of shamanism that distinguishes the original and is somehow copy-protected, the copying -happened-
trinque: talking at crossways I think
trinque: one's talking about identity, the other being
asciilifeform: (typically shaman says that no such thing as the copy could even be attempted, because the gods will drop a piano on your head.)
asciilifeform does not find ^ a very interesting hypothesis
nubbins`: copout
Adlai: in zindell's scifi, their best tech for copying - renders the organ being copied incapable of supporting further consciousness
Adlai: (functions as a plot element, not a copout)
trinque: asciilifeform: I began criticizing the idea that all of the infinite me's are to be considered as though they are the me driving the keyboard
trinque: whether they are the same to you doesn't matter at all to me
trinque: I will still strive to be the one not capped by the 45
trinque: :p
asciilifeform: again using this word that no longer has a correct meaning in the hypothetical system
asciilifeform: 'me'
trinque: I disagree entirely
asciilifeform: so shaman?
trinque: that I am sitting here having this experience defines "me" sufficiently for me to use it
trinque: if it doesn't for you, who cares?
asciilifeform: i might care, when it's my turn to argue with my copy about who should be shot