BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: tbh, someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation to me sometime. fucking pseudohierarchy devoid of meaning. << Within your big GPG keyblock you can have multiple keys, say a 4096 RSA for signing and another 4096 to encrypt to. Beyond that you can keep stuffing moar keys in there just because...
trinque: and aside that, may the words should, associated, and all other "ignore the gap" terms be put to the spike
trinque: do I understand correctly that you use a "signing key" to sign your various subkeys, thus associating them with one identity?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121757 @ 0.00026256 = 31.9685 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49295 @ 0.00026832 = 13.2268 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: bad_duck, if you can't rely on the timestamps on the blocks what timestamps can you rely on?
danielpbarron: does debug.log record the date from the block? or the time on my computer when the block was relayed?
bad_duck: danielpbarron | data signed by WoT members <-- I hope to find a "relyable" person, but yes I'll have to trust him
bad_duck: danielpbarron: yes, I have this info in my debug.log but my node is only running for 1-2 months...
bad_duck: danielpbarron: anyway I want some more data so I'm looking for someone who is listening the network for a long time / has logs
danielpbarron: i don't think debug.log would give you the info you want
bad_duck: danielpbarron: dependd if the node is running for a long time, it has it after the initial sync (and some missing / wrong poing after downtime when resync / getting last blocks)
bad_duck: hmm, mine has, things like that :
bad_duck: 2015-05-21 01:28:34 UpdateTip: new best=00000.... height=357347 log2_work=82.81497 tx=69326602 date=2015-05-21 01:28:05
bad_duck: 2015-05-21 01:30:13 UpdateTip: new best=00000.... height=357348 log2_work=82.815005 tx=69326669 date=2015-05-21 01:27:51
danielpbarron: also, you can do just grep UpdateTip .bitcoin/debug.log
bad_duck: for the last 2 blocks, on the left my timestamp, on the right the timestamp in block
bad_duck: but the node need to be connected / synched to get the "right" timestamp, during initial sync / update after downtime the timestamp on the left would likely be wrong
danielpbarron: mine just has the date in the block (version 0.7.2 and 0.5.3.x)
bad_duck: bitcoind? that's some old versions!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00026739 = 6.3505 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 21:58:54; ascii_field: what of the baseband ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 201608 @ 0.00025879 = 52.1741 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 14:30:35; mircea_popescu: for as long as the free herring still lasts, they can run around derping about how they meditatively comprehensified the deep secrets of the universe.
decimation: why don't we have someone here from egypt derping about arab freedom
jurov: decimation: they are already in germany building nordic system
☟︎ AdrianoOliveira: i was a regular "listener" here... but I am absent for the last couple months
AdrianoOliveira: basically I first came here while studying the pricing of bitcoin options
decimation: where does anyone trade bitcoin options?
decimation: jurov: lol good point - except I thought it was mostly turks
AdrianoOliveira: I started pricing a model for them for the brazilian market (basically an option which would cover the risks of dolar and bitcoin)
decimation: jurov: note that ms. socialism failed to acknowledge that part
jurov: decimation no she'd see it a confirmation "yes they know it's good, too"
decimation: heh yeah. is slovenia full of ethnics too?
jurov: AdrianoOliveira: I recently asked local atm owner about selling some, he quoted me 200eur/btc
jurov: and i was like..wtf he gets bitcoins at such price?
jurov: there are too much we don't know
decimation: jurov: I suspect much btc trading happens over the counter
jurov: yeah, i suppose it's better to sell 10% lower under the counter and avoid taxes
jurov: and dunno about slovenia, ask kako
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the Brazilian market I can confirm that... today's volume at local exchanges was about 280 BTC and I got a user offering me 140 out of exchanges
☟︎ AdrianoOliveira: jurov: besides the taxes, if they try to sell/buy larger quantities they will move the market faster againt them
jurov: yes, slovak :) and no ethnies here, only a few in capital
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103200 @ 0.00026356 = 27.1994 BTC [+]
decimation: jurov: do many people speak german there?
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: it is indeed. most brazilians avoid the exchanges for several reasons... also people lost interest since the $1000/btc
jurov: dunno, germans/aunstrians prefer english
decimation: AdrianoOliveira: they only want to trade it if it is 'rich'?
jurov: decimation: they want to HODL
jurov: obv that won't work if it's going down
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: lol... it seems they avoid buying it if it is cheap... it is better to buy high and sell low, hehe
decimation: I donno, it seems to me that as long as any money is going into bitcoin, the 'price' relative to fiat is going to increas
decimation: so if that's the case, bitcoin is 'on sale'
decimation: AdrianoOliveira: I've heard that during the hyperinflation in brazil, most people held gold in bank deposit boxes
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: I was just a kid at that time so I can't confirm... but I remember for instance that people run into the supermarket on the same day they received they paycheck to buy groceries because prices used to double overnight
decimation: AdrianoOliveira: right so people ought to remember that it's a good idea to HODL a strong currency
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the older ones that's true... people under 30 actually don't remember/didn't experience that
AdrianoOliveira: these just want to buy something that is skyrocketing to sell in a couple days for a profit
AdrianoOliveira: as it is not the case anymore, they are loosing interest on bitcoin
trinque recalls the rabid euphoria on /r/bitcoinmarkets
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.24, Best ask: 234.26, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 234.24, 24 hour volume: 11363.15894438, 24 hour low: 231.72, 24 hour high: 235.24, 24 hour vwap: None
decimation: I remember the haters all complaining that bitcoin was 'not stable'
☟︎ decimation: now it's stable, and they want it to go to the moon
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 09:25:23; mircea_popescu: this is not recoverable.
trinque: jurov: they've got some new SJW policy about being a "safe place"
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.24, Best ask: 234.36, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 234.24, 24 hour volume: 11326.24280465, 24 hour low: 231.72, 24 hour high: 235.24, 24 hour vwap: None
BingoBoingo: ^ asking price goes up when you call the ticker and address your chosen market with its "butt" name
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211120 @ 0.00025785 = 54.4373 BTC [-] {2}
AdrianoOliveira: decimation: our economy is a mess at the moment... and I don't think things will be back on track soon.
funkenstein_: decimation: I stumbled across you in an odd place
funkenstein_: "Major thirds move quickly around the 53-note circle of fifths, because of the decimation chosen to give preference to the fifth as representing the smallest change."
BingoBoingo prefers circle of circle of minor fifths, prefers the devil's note
BingoBoingo: 7th's major or minor also cool unless the rest of the chord is being filled in
decimation: funkenstein_: I was unaware of the musical use of the term
mircea_popescu: how DID you come up with the nick then ? you terrorist you.
decimation: no it's a reference to signal processing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106850 @ 0.00025603 = 27.3568 BTC [-]
decimation: fight derpy natives instead of battle hardened germans?
decimation:
http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2339&pr=0 < "Neanderthals who survived into their thirties looked like they had been pulled out of a Humvee that was hit by an IED. One fellow was missing an eye, an arm, a thumb and a foot! These guys suffered from no known diseases. However, their main food [according to chemical analysis of their bones] was the auroch?basically a rodeo bull?which they had to kill be wrestling with it, stabb
mircea_popescu: yes neanderthals hunted. this was accomplished principally by outrunning smallish game. a sort of a dodo bird, some early antelope etc.
decimation: you don't think they killed a giant auroch by hand
trinque: "endurance hunting" was the thing right?
mircea_popescu: they surely did occasionally. neanderthals are kinda like monkeys.
mircea_popescu: but it was not, i would guess, above 10% of energetic input. prolly safe to say 1% or less.
decimation: well, if the practice continued into roman times, I wouldn't want to face some dude who wrested an auroch and won
mircea_popescu: decimation the derpy european bear (small, brown guy, about 4 foot tall standing) is to this day (or rather, the 1800s) an informal "absolute top of young male physical ability"
mircea_popescu: but the bear is playful. nobody is fucking wrestling a bull solo.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125641 @ 0.00026789 = 33.658 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: it was a group effort, iof/when it happened, and oportunistic
decimation: also why not just spear/trap/arrow or whatever
mircea_popescu: because they didn't have them or know how to use them.
mircea_popescu: understand : people of year 52015 will say "humans had internet" sure, they did. so ?
mircea_popescu: just because there's proof sylex spears were used by ns does not mean a superarmy of drilled regiments of standard-uniformed neanderthals.
decimation: that's a good point, but it seems that a deadfall is pretty obvious
mircea_popescu: you think a pit large enough to host a bull is trivial ? go fucking dig out a regulation latrine with a shard of dinner plate!
mircea_popescu: (or calculate the caloric value of the bull and the caloric expenditure of the dig)
decimation: although an auroch would feed a tribe for awhile
mircea_popescu: no. rich meat is 3-4 calories / gram. a one ton bull made of no bones is worth 3-4Mcal tops.
mircea_popescu: yeah, asciilifeform has a point. eat it that day or lose it
mircea_popescu: (not to derpy bacteria. to jackals. they band together.)
mircea_popescu: trinque yes, that's the word. and we know it is the fact of the matter from say the kidneys.
mircea_popescu: decimation again, animals are not stupid. it will identify your trap even when fresh. let alone when it stinks of death.
mircea_popescu: decimation she wasn't a socialist, she was a northernsystemalist. stop arguing about your imaginary political systems that don't exist!
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 14:32:14; mircea_popescu: instead of parading them naked through the streets with a "i was a fucktard and am now sorry" thing around their neck, they let them sit around for twenty years coming up with reasons as to how their idiocy "wasn't really all that bad".
trinque: is "meowmix" #b-a's "anon" ?
mircea_popescu: basically, the east germans came up with a rationalization of their soviet time. "we really were right. excesses were made but..."
decimation: hondapiston: no you tell me why you lurk
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> meowmix is, i think, a script. << More likely meat that fails turing test
decimation: meowmix: is that why you are using an ipv6 address?
mircea_popescu: replacing the T for passing turing with the F for failing it.
decimation: so are people who inappropriately use apostrophes
hondapiston: I hate feminists but most of all i hate homosexuals
decimation: meowmix, something draws you to this channel
trinque: talk like crab! act like peo-ple!
decimation: at least vexual kinda makes sense sometimes
felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
BingoBoingo: meowmix seems to consistently come from near danielpbarron's neck of the woods. Perhaps an ex?
felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
trinque: strange the guy has a compulsion to come here, but mostly emits word salad
mircea_popescu: it is the nature of human stupidity to ascertain positive outcomes to personal merit and negative outcomes to environmental hostility.
decimation: BingoBoingo: did you use a tool to find his ipv6 address assignment pool?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Nah, I just remember from when his phone carrier still had v4's to give him
trinque: asciilifeform: I'm not aware of it
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah that's a good point
decimation: even the us thinks that its political system is responsible for having vast natural resources/destroying the world twice
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 23:04:03; mircea_popescu: it was highlighted by intel about two weeks ago, and we're generally tracing it to philippines "top quality" content farms working for a number of (mostly ct and wash based) pr firms.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doesn't seem all that likely but who knows.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:24:43; jurov: decimation: they are already in germany building nordic system
trinque: asciilifeform: huh, astroturfing meatfarms?
BingoBoingo: trinque: They are a thing, welcome to glabalization
felipelalli: AdrianoOliveira: welcome! First Brazilian I see here.
mircea_popescu: trinque better than callcenter / myfreecams / wow gold baby.
mircea_popescu personally knows ex-slavegirl trainee. failed out of slavedom bootcamp, is now working callcenter. what most meat does irl, the world over.
mircea_popescu: exactly what you'd expect. not actually being good enough. ayup
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: I didn't know. Thanks for the pro tip.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:36:17; AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the Brazilian market I can confirm that... today's volume at local exchanges was about 280 BTC and I got a user offering me 140 out of exchanges
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:48:29; decimation: I remember the haters all complaining that bitcoin was 'not stable'
mircea_popescu: the idea that "the people" should have a voice is not unlike the notion that cows should design their own barns.
mircea_popescu imagines a cow designed barn... walls of hay, roof of salt rock...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140900 @ 0.00027579 = 38.8588 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: watching the phuctor story unfold as a bystander, it really opens ones eyes to the... call it participatory nature of a totalitarian system
mircea_popescu: the gestapo, is not pointed out enough, consisted of a small office with a few bureaucrats overwhelmed by citizen reports irl,
mircea_popescu: intelligent, educated fellow with direct access to the thing and a deep interest in documenting it. one rarely gets better.
mircea_popescu: and imo better than mr s, on account of no particular literary ambitions
trinque: "He does it because these things must be done if one is to get along in life." << this must be entirely automatic
trinque: the obedience mechanism, whatever that is
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:50:13; mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,
decimation: asciilifeform: is this havel guy kinda like a czech Solzhenitsyn?
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why idiot rawls and his "veil of ignorance" is so important for the "nordic system" ie, socialism re-emergent. it's not the direct pseudo-ethics it derps around with that's the core there. it's the proposition, unwarranted and offensive, that people have no more substance than replaceable parts, and that their connections in the graph do not exist.
trinque: only part I don't know about is whether this is a sort of inauthentic behavior on the part of the shopkeeper
trinque: seems obedience is a fine thing if the directions given to it are any good
mircea_popescu: trinque the socialist state is necessarily intellectually vacuous
mircea_popescu: (and it's necessarily vacuous for the reason discussed in "the problem of ideal systems")
decimation: yeah but as trinque pointed out earlier, the socialist state has the advantage of 'cheap coordination'
decimation: it's really easy to sell the idea that the state will save you
mircea_popescu: "you can either buy this thing which works, or this thing which is free." "but does it work ?" "no."
mircea_popescu: the choice is then settled by... whether you can afford the first.
mircea_popescu: because if you can't, you ain't buying it. and if you ain't buying it, might as well take the 2nd.
decimation: ^ which is why fiat currency is so wrapped up in the socialist megastate
decimation: because it jams the markets with crazy nonsense
BingoBoingo: Facebook commenters, worse than tumblrinas
trinque: my thought was that the average person has always been this semi-mindless imitator, quite human to try to tend towards the middle, whatever that may be
trinque: a sort of swarming behavior
trinque: and that this historically would've been swarming around a command structure
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would say they believe in... descuamation.
mircea_popescu: specifically, actual life is too much of a burden, so they wish to be... well killed, basically.
mircea_popescu: see, the hindu psychological driver is coping with harsh environment. so that models the person one way.
mircea_popescu: the western rapemeats' driver is on the contrary : look how much i should have achieved and how utterly i have failed at all of it.
mircea_popescu: depression incumbent then is resolved as a "yes but my REAL SELF has not come yet"
mircea_popescu: at which point the fantasy of magical body exchanges is, like the armchair generalship of you know, running mpex from the forum, a very natural escape.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47946 @ 0.00028011 = 13.4302 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: but you see, the idea being, that if they had no body AT ALL... they wouldn't have failed.
trinque: asciilifeform: this seems to be the victim culture thing
mircea_popescu: next best thing to no body at all being, a vague body which "might have been"
trinque: I had a few lols today investigating the #diecisscum and #killallwhitemen things today
decimation: nah, I think the western statism is simple Christianity without god - 'god is dead, it's up to us to build heaven on earth'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, i suspect a large number of the rapemeat, aka sjws, actually masturbate, at least mentally, to the idea of them being blind from birth street urchin sexually abused on a constant basis.
trinque: decimation: yup, this HR department morality thing is *so* protestant
mircea_popescu: in a land which had biomass growth pedal to the floor.
decimation: in the western us, the most dangerous forest fires happen after lots of rain
trinque: and entirely absent any social structure beyond dysfunctional families
decimation: the verdant landscape suddenly dries and goes poof
decimation: well, dry spells immediately following wet spells
BingoBoingo: <trinque> I had a few lols today investigating the #diecisscum and #killallwhitemen things today << I dunno why trans would label their opposition cis- because when talking isomers... transgeometric isomers tend to be poisonous, or at least less supporting of continued life than cis isomers.
BingoBoingo: I kinda figure normal ordinary responsible people should refocus the conversation on dext vs. levo rotary. dext (normal) rotary amphetamine feels good man. levo just induces stress reactions and nihilism.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo personally, i find the aggitation of marginal women which i'd never fuck or empower anyway about how things should be very entertaining.
mircea_popescu: why's that girl not in here anyway ? not like ben_vulpes' gonna steal her away with his magic tango skillz...
decimation: I guess she blew her wad on 2000 lines or whatever
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But the people pushing the trans/cis thing largely aren't women. They are some large women and some men who have modified their sex to a null state.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo whether they're women or not is not up to them. gender is something allocated to one. by, in this case, me.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> can't be arsed. << I can see why you get along.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo whether they're women or not is not up to them. gender is something allocated to one. by, in this case, me. << I see this.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: From what I understand kakobrekla and lampelina sleep in shifts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what else do you suppose ru prison pederasty is if not allocated womanhood
trinque wonders if there's such a thing as reproductive suicide, biologically speaking
trinque: someone's too full of plastic or what have you, and suddenly they're transfluid-hyperqueer
trinque: the psychology of some of these people just says "couldn't pull the trigger, didn't even have a gun"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know the thousand dollar whore joke ?
mircea_popescu: guy goes into mining town with a thousand dollars in gold.
mircea_popescu: he does this for a while, eventually a less scrupulous owner takes his thousand
mircea_popescu: girl in room "hello baby, where do you want to put it ? my ass ? my ..."
mircea_popescu: "shut up bitch. for a thousand dollars i make my own holes."
assbot: Logged on 13-02-2014 23:14:48; mircea_popescu: "babe, for 10k i make my own holes"
trinque: I have no issue whatsoever with homosexuality... this thing though where what... the actual reproducing members of the species must die?
trinque: that's a very particular reckless suicidality
trinque: lol, oh, I am missing nuance?
mircea_popescu: trinque you familiar with the concepts of jews and forced memes ?
trinque: "beautiful ones" and so on?
trinque: that's exactly what it seems like, some biological mechanism going off due to stress or who knows what
BingoBoingo: trinque: Homosexuality is a thing. A number of people do it with a strong irreplacable preferance and given the roster that includes turing it isn't a thing to demonize.
trinque: BingoBoingo: I'm not demonizing it at all, even waffled sufficiently to indicate this :D
trinque: but there's a specific blend of queer and self-destructive I've met enough times to know it's a thing
mircea_popescu: trinque the jew part i really can't explain. but a forced meme is what cancerous fags do when they try to create a meme. which is EXACTLY like what idiot kids do when they "create exchange", but exactly. ignorance so ignorant it doesn't grok why it's being ignorant but thinks itself clever.
BingoBoingo: Like anything else in the postmodern era... the fandom that attaches is...
mircea_popescu: now, the "kill men" bla bla is exactly this : a forced jew meme for that particular subculture.
mircea_popescu: trinque so your original interpretation is not unlike saying 4chan is antisemitic.
decimation: from my point of view the whole 'gay rights' thing looks to be about bossing around whitey who cowers in learned helplessness
trinque: it does, the in-group signaling thing makes a lot of sense too though, and furthermore that things you can only say in your in-group are the best signals
decimation: that at trying to immanentize the eschaton
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Still there, just not poplar enough
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123059 @ 0.00027471 = 33.8055 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: But not really Lombary Poplars suck. Grow too fast, insufficient trunk strength, gets blown over on the first strong wind. And if it doesn't blow over dies at 30 anyways because fuck you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131505 @ 0.00027468 = 36.1218 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is an excellent model for the reddit/tumblr/etc failure modes.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo poplars are the hitchiker whore of trees. cheap, available and ineffectual.
decimation: note that the failure mode with the mice isn't too little information - it's too much
mircea_popescu: " more mice than meaningful social roles. With more and more peers to defend against" << that's the hot core of failure.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I dunno hitchiker whores can make it to 40 and become settled whores unless they roll a Ted Bundy
BingoBoingo: And poplars too have a purpose. If you are otherwise broke, have rain, and really want firewood for next winter...
BingoBoingo: It's just... really hard to trust a tree that struggles to live twice as long as a dog
decimation:
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/05/nicholas_vincen.html < "The myth, even as early as the 12th century, that the English are freeborn people--it's a load of nonsense; they come from Troy; they are the exiles from ancient Troy defeated by the Greeks: they go off and they found this kingdom of England from which they eventually get a king called Arthur. But they are a freedom-loving people. They live under liberty and freedom. Of
decimation: english 'liberty' as founded in the magna carta is just repeating asperations until they become true
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There's a couple of older birch trees near here. Exceptional because... don't look much like the other birches.
BingoBoingo: My biggest annoyance at this phase of the summer's landscaping gigs is actually hickory. Lives forever, quality wood... but... The squirrels plant it. It lays low for a couple years and then zoom towards the heavens.
BingoBoingo: And because squirrels plant it before cats eat them for winter sustenance, squirrels plant them in the worst places
BingoBoingo: That is pretty beautiful. Probably will be for another decade or two
decimation: I'm a sucker for a large stately sycamore tree
BingoBoingo: decimation: sycamore is even choice wood for some applications. Also low on litter and grows big.
BingoBoingo: Also countertops, just fuck it. Granite bleeds radon and marble stains. Just install block and sand, then replace in a decade.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10598 @ 0.00028144 = 2.9827 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Even birch is useful if you want to build a brownwater vessel
BingoBoingo: But poplar is only useful for filing insurance claims and watching your fuel wood burn too fast.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I thought they braced behind the chop
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If ideal quartz were marketed for this purpose no staining
BingoBoingo: Oh, but countertop quartz, are you expecting a single piece? Most nao are chip and epoxy abominations unless you beat the greek (stone people are almost always greek) appropriately
decimation: also it takes no maintenace and looks nice
decimation: actually if you want functionality - stainless steel
decimation: how much chromium you gonna pick up from a stainless pot?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69098 @ 0.00025648 = 17.7223 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.00026387 = 13.4574 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026387 = 5.2774 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think he prefers the salutation "panzer" when so hailed
BingoBoingo: So, as of a few hours ago this laptop is nao on its 4th cooling fan.
BingoBoingo: Seriously. Demanded fans every ~14-16 months on nigbuntu and nao wants to move to a 6 month schedule on OpenBSD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77800 @ 0.00026385 = 20.5275 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: It does. And if epoxied it not only chips, but tunnels. Too brittle
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel The more time I spend with nonegenarians the kinder dementia pugilistica sounds
BingoBoingo: Best I can guess alf is cold war relic Yeltsin was too drunk to deactivate and Putin found too cute to turn off
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167200 @ 0.00025706 = 42.9804 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: mike_c "легальные резиденты" my ratting comment @ the_scourge ? lol
BingoBoingo: So, "Guardians of the Galaxy" least unbelievable of the Disney/Marvel movies
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00025758 = 5.1516 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135920 @ 0.00025633 = 34.8404 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Sometimes other senses fail first
BingoBoingo: Eh, the rougher part is people with the grey and white matter in tact with the senses failing
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: finished an (interactive) Architectural tour of Masamune.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: need to find a box to hack the install proc on
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you know someone in the SF Bay area who would throw me a computer, that would be tight.
mircea_popescu: but listen, if you're broke is thsi sort of grand architectural commitment the bestest policy ?
mircea_popescu: "i've had cancer for like a year now". good for you but eventually it'll kill ya.
gabriel_laddel: So... you remember the tide usd vs. usd usd discussion?
mircea_popescu: im not going to go into how "Most ideas humans would like to
mircea_popescu: ;;; communicate using the computer are quite simple." is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise.
gribble: Error: ";" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00025758 = 7.7274 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: I've been broke for like a year, working on that which interests me so that I can make large sums of money rather than the 70-100k/yr you get programming. Also, money is just a system for communicating ideas about value - if one has value it can be turned into money and vice versa.
gabriel_laddel: ask trinque how much better CLIM is than anything else on Earth
mircea_popescu: are you in like a public library in guatemala or something
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74050 @ 0.00025612 = 18.9657 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: I can get on duckduckgo, but not google, but can get on google+?
mircea_popescu: okay so... how;s this oging to pay your internets bill ?
mircea_popescu: see, this is the golden rule of magic numbers : if you use one and then need context to indentify it, you've misused a magic number.
gabriel_laddel: After ~20 people you lose the ability for everyone to know everyone else.
gabriel_laddel: you can't convince 30 people who don't know lisp to use it.
gabriel_laddel: well, a software development team has different dynamics
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 216250 @ 0.00025438 = 55.0097 BTC [-] {3}
gabriel_laddel: The 20 number isn't a hard limit by any means, and I suppose I should change it because I pulled it out of my arse.
mircea_popescu: "From this point forward it is assumed you have set aside some time to learn Masamune and need no justification for as to why any particular abstraction has been chosen." << so is this a cult then ?
gabriel_laddel: Nah, justification is available, I just don't want it cluttering the presentation.
mircea_popescu: that is a very different statement from the statement you're actually making.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Is the argentine legal system as derpy as the rest of the country?
mircea_popescu: "HotSlut22" #P"/root/quicklisp/local-projects/masamune/images/hot-slut22-avatar.png"))) o.O
gabriel_laddel: I needed an avatar for an example WoT program and dipped into the xxx folder
mircea_popescu: "Contributions in the last year". what the FUCK does this mean.
mircea_popescu: fake meaningless numbers processed as if they weren't. fucking fiat mindrot
gabriel_laddel: Data visualization will save the seas of failed "college students".... or so they hope.
mircea_popescu: this user has produced 77 productions and consumed 52 consumptions. 991 users approve.
mircea_popescu: politicomathsocioscience 101 for the new generation : let there be user A who has 43 positive meaningless ticks and 22 negative meaningless ticks ; and user B who has 12 PMT and 17 NMT. who would win in a fight between homer simpson and a himalayan sherpa ?
mircea_popescu: a : user B, because his PMT are cars, whereas user A's PMTs are empty cherio wrappers.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you've got some spare time on your hands, (Mc)CLIM is neato
mircea_popescu: "how many lcd screens do you get by adding seven oranges to a bucket of water ?" "8"
gabriel_laddel: I didn't know the eurola crafting system was so advanced
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198750 @ 0.00025541 = 50.7627 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> that's called dunbar's number and is ~100 not ~20 << See how Dunbar's number works is you can know 150 people, harass 1500 people, but only count on at most 15 to follow instructions
BingoBoingo: White people had a big gunfight in Texas over the weekend without civilian casualties and now everyone derps about big bad biker gangs
BingoBoingo: Weekend's drama was apparently biker gang splinter group was being confronted by their sponsors and likely DEA agent ran over some dude's toes, then hemophilia
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 20:39:18; mircea_popescu: africa is actually, at least from what i've observed, extremely ordered.
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 19:58:13; ben_vulpes: "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax (detect false positives short a full parser)" << this strikes me as a special case of the "cannot simulate a universe without a universe" claim.
BingoBoingo: Depends on the strength of your microscope
Apocalyptic: ;;later tell asciilifeform re pgpdump it actually displays details of HPA's invalid subkey, but for some reason doesn't print the associated keyid even once so my grep missed it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00025541 = 1.0983 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097935 << I'm not envisioning a great new wave of lisp on UNIX. Most people, when they use software, never question foundational abstractions. I can hack lisp, but cannot hack the myriad "dodo languages" UNIX is written in (and retain my sanity). If people are going to be writing code it should be in
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:36:29; asciilifeform: to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.
gabriel_laddel: CL. Additionally, I want people who have no prior knowledge of computing to develop taste. Gedankenexperiment: spend 10k USD, purchase stock PCs, preload with something somewhat sane (Actually complete Masamune/bitcoin-assets distro) and distribute to a class of kids "learning to program". IMHO they'll play around with it, do their work and then p
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: romptly forget about it. Actual people don't forget the experience of using something interesting (see your own hypercard post). I want them to be absolutely fucking incensed when they encounter windows or the like. Also, I love being able to kill/yank text in the browser + Emacs + CLIM. Also, money.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: is that like when gabriel_laddel reads loper-os then screams about lisp at everyone? << After using CLIM, do you feel like screaming at people?
gabriel_laddel: 03:55:16 mircea_popescu: or for that matter, predict the next one, so you know where not to go o.O << Cincinnati
mircea_popescu: i still don't see the money part. this is art, at best.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I'd argue with you, but it'll be less labor intensive to just wait until you use it (or even a select codebase like CLIM)
gabriel_laddel: and you'll say something similar to trinque "I have lived in a river of shit my entire life"
mircea_popescu: well, i don't code much, so it's unlikely to make much difference to me. but in any case, this is how a good joke goes, or a good book. good books don't make much money.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you had Eurola shipped in 1/2 the time this would matter to you, no?
mircea_popescu: notrly. the sticking point atm is the art and my game design, not the code.
mircea_popescu: but w/e, im a bad example. suppose for someone it matters, and it saves them 10 billion pula.
gabriel_laddel: I took an early demo (long before I discovered CLIM) to large company X, demonstrated all the information I could collect, that I could write lessons integrated into the whole desktop environment. This company has the sneaking suspicion that people sort of dick around during the onboarding process and there is a huge variation in how long people ta
gabriel_laddel: ke to complete it. Via Masamune it is possible to find out what these people are doing, optimize confusing paths etc.
gabriel_laddel: I plan to write custom (source included) extensions for select parteners
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54800 @ 0.00025366 = 13.9006 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: aka, art (in the "what is art" on trilema sense - work for the lord).
mircea_popescu: (historically this is the EXACT contribution of the artist to the world, your "I have lived in a river of shit my entire life" or as jourdain put it, "i had no idea i was talking in prose".)
gabriel_laddel: Mathematica makes money, people say the exact same things about their software "I have lived in a...", but their product is braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: mathematica only makes money because it's braindamaged imo
mircea_popescu: ie, you can't have the things that make it make money without the causes of the braindamage
gabriel_laddel: Symbolics Inc. made quite a bit of money - their products were not braindamaged.
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: The real question is - how much did they spend on real estate in CA?
gabriel_laddel: Again, I would happily pay 10k-20k for a computing environment that doesn't waste my time.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i thought you had bills in arrears. how would you pay a 10k bill ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92432 @ 0.00025366 = 23.4463 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: if sane computing existed I would (update and then) send out my resume
gabriel_laddel: I'd happily work at pretty much anything to make money for a sane computer.
mircea_popescu: so imagine it exists and they don't let you work on it oh oh oh i see.
mircea_popescu: so imagine it exists and it costs the money you have + 1.
mircea_popescu: i think for the record most capitalists work on this concept
mircea_popescu: "the world sucks, and id pay any sum for one that didn't. well... suppose it exists and it costs what i have +1 ... best get to work then"
gabriel_laddel: "that didn't. well... suppose it exists and costs what I have +1"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91145 @ 0.00024411 = 22.2494 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: My position is simply that I can be broke and work on what I want to work on without being terribly inconvenienced
mircea_popescu: 1. world sucks ; 2. capitalist would pay any sum for a world that doesn't suck ; 3. sadly that world doesn't exist ; 4. but the capitalist simply presumes it exists, and it's for sale for the money he has + 1
☟︎ mircea_popescu: so 5. he goes to work, makes more money. this of course scales up the price.
mircea_popescu: so he spends his life chasing the world that doesn't suck, a dollar at a time.
gabriel_laddel: Hmm.. I think 4 should be "the capitalist simply presumes it *will* exist"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95100 @ 0.00025541 = 24.2895 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: If it doesn't exist, and other people want it - go make and sell it.
mircea_popescu: in any case, this approach illuminates the fundamentally pessimistic outlook of the socialist.
mircea_popescu: (which is why "does" not "will" - the bourgeois has no adherence to metaphysics.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103450 @ 0.00025714 = 26.6011 BTC [+] {2}
gabriel_laddel: "he;s a capitalist not a metaphysicist. " << I don't understand how this follows
gabriel_laddel: This model is bizzare. So if I'm a capitalist I should make money to purchase that which does not exist?
gabriel_laddel: I'd end up having to type for them, and at that point, wtf I'll just do it myself
gabriel_laddel: Though I'll note the "chasing a better world a dollar at a time" makes a great deal of sense, unless one lives in the peculiar bezzle-buck nightmare we currently inhabit.
gabriel_laddel: story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. I got another place, found trilema+#bitcoin-assets and... got evicted again.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 15000 @ 0.000207 = 3.105 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 18000 @ 0.00009 = 1.62 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138350 @ 0.00025037 = 34.6387 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67765 @ 0.00025758 = 17.4549 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28350 @ 0.00025744 = 7.2984 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: im not going to go into how "Most ideas humans would like to communicate using the computer are quite simple." is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise. << I didn't see this prior to our conversation, courtesy of not paying my bills. This is actually the crux of it, so let's revisit. You've publicly stated something to th
gabriel_laddel: e effect of "linux devs are idiots and I'd like a judiciously defaulted gentoo please". The question is, at what point does this become something that you (or others ben_vulpes, mod6, asciilifeform etc have already wasted time derping with gentoo) would pay for? People pay for (what they see as) quality software - sublime text makes money, as does
gabriel_laddel: Intellij. The problem with these (ALGOL based) businesses is that their organizations ossify because of the sheer number of people that must get involved in any sort of "automation of programming". This is inescapable if you choose to use ALGOL. I realize that this isn't a result you believe exists, but reality doesn't care. Aside from software dev
gabriel_laddel: s, industrial chemists, architects, research physicists etc would like to have a plug-and-play solution for going about their work. There is money to be made here. Afaik the only way to get there is: 1. revert to paper 2. teach *everyone* what an AST is, choose a language, add AST traversal mechanisms and write *everything* in it (this will continu
gabriel_laddel: ally burn some of Earth's brighter minds, someone needs to think about the gnarly parser semantics when the language's syntax is updated - my experience is that you can't pay people to care) 3. use lisp. People have already tried 1 & 2, and the result is inevitably that even if they make money (Mathematica, Microsoft, Oracle...) the foundations of
gabriel_laddel: shit catch up with them and we end up where we are today - nothing works and everyone insists that it does because they've bought into a lie. As for "is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise", thank you, will update.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you're a capitalist everything exists << this makes no sense to me.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu thinks gabriel and janna would make a perfect couple. << I'm almost insulted.
mircea_popescu: the problem with your theory is exactly that : it's a theory. life on earth is emergent pattern in chaos, not sensible arrangement.
chetty: or chaos emerging from a pattern
mircea_popescu: now, the reason the quote is factually incorrect is pure godel. what you imagine as "simple" is only simple because you're using an unsimple language. otherwise, if you face the problem directly, it's very complex.
mircea_popescu: moreover, and this is the important part, it's a poor premise because only idiots start their stuff with "most people"
mircea_popescu: forget most people. you've not even made something and are already blunting it ? make it be good first, most people after.
chetty: no such thing as 'most people'
mircea_popescu: and as to "if you're a capitalist everything exists" - it's a subtle point, but in order for one to be a capitalist, the requisite premise is "that which is is and necesarily is, and that which is not is not and necessarily is not", ie, parmenides.
mircea_popescu: so no, for a capitalist it is eminently impossible for something to not be and then come into being.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: lol but why ? she wouldn't let you get evicted. << I think she'd actually evict me, then decry that there were homeless programmers.
gabriel_laddel: I'm not a socialist in anycase, I support my own being evicted.
mircea_popescu: you know womenz can be fiercely loyal in spite of their better knowledge.
gabriel_laddel: my experience suggests that one must fuck them for this to be the case.
gabriel_laddel: only discoveries. no inventions. << Okay, this makes sense - but someone must discover.
mircea_popescu: the historical utility of children for human society is that they are more than happy to stick random things in their mouth.
mircea_popescu: they were used as exploration drones, basically. see what fruit is poisonous etc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155300 @ 0.00025415 = 39.4695 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @ 0.00025805 = 22.1794 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 212200 @ 0.00024976 = 52.9991 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00024961 = 26.2715 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 10:04:19; gabriel_laddel: story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. I got another place, found trilema+#bitcoin-assets and... got evicted again.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:39:50; gabriel_laddel: Symbolics Inc. made quite a bit of money - their products were not braindamaged.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:40:23; mircea_popescu: so no, they didn't make money
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. of course. when caught lying... freeze.
mircea_popescu: it didn't work for karpeles, it didn't work for lawsky, it ain't gonna work for graham, or for anyone else.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:42:27; gabriel_laddel: Again, I would happily pay 10k-20k for a computing environment that doesn't waste my time.
assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:47:10; mircea_popescu: 1. world sucks ; 2. capitalist would pay any sum for a world that doesn't suck ; 3. sadly that world doesn't exist ; 4. but the capitalist simply presumes it exists, and it's for sale for the money he has + 1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do i recall correctly that at some point they squandered a mn or so on some dumbass real estate deal ?
mircea_popescu: engineers suck at management is the long and the short of it.
mircea_popescu: im not familiar enough with the text & its context to call it
mircea_popescu: i am more familiar with games market 20 years later by a long shot.
mircea_popescu: this scenario played itself there numerous times : people with great ideas sucked at business.
mircea_popescu: however, because > 100 tries, rather than the 3-4 you see in os market,
mircea_popescu: there WERE cases which'd have been the "Competent symbolics that didn't do unix"
mircea_popescu: you understand good games are a lot more elitist than good os right ?
mircea_popescu: nobody plays a game because "i hate it but whatever, it works"
mircea_popescu: yes, it is, which is how we got 100 tries rather than 3.
mircea_popescu: however, that doesn't matter - how cheap it is in absolute terms. whether you have 100 outfits each owing 1mn or 5 outfits each owing 20mn
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the fascinating case of fred quimby ?
mircea_popescu: because fred quimby is the man that made cartoons be a meme. tom and jerry, loony tunes, all of it.
mircea_popescu: cartoons exist in your mental universe because fred quimby lived at some point.
mircea_popescu: now this man... he was a sales manager. hired away iirc from walmart, or some such, to run an animation studio.
mircea_popescu: which he ran exactly like a fish market. opressing the ever-so-creative creative ppls, and famously lacking any sort of a sense of humour
mircea_popescu: or even any interest in the subject of his profession.
mircea_popescu: then, after decades, and NINE oscars, ie, his weight in fucking gold, he retired.
mircea_popescu: the studio was taken over by the jenius creative minds in questions. you probably also know their names, because they are intricately connected to the absolute worst shit animation ever saw.
mircea_popescu: if there was ever a bad cartoon, hanna & barbera made it.
mircea_popescu: western animation would languish until someone signed mr spiel to do 100`000 movies a year.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the amusing tactical implication here is that well... they actually would have loved to say rsa is bad.
mircea_popescu: it's like... that's where the entire "mp is a troll" thing came from.
mircea_popescu: shit fucking hurt, "you seriously mean he makes us choose between this and that ?!?!"
mircea_popescu: yeah. the sorta-fat, cowardly, euglena-scented kid everyone beat the shit out of in school.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49600 @ 0.00024961 = 12.3807 BTC [-]
davout: ;;ticker --market buttfinex
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 235.38, Best ask: 235.43, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 235.46, 24 hour volume: 12953.63746798, 24 hour low: 233.2, 24 hour high: 236.5, 24 hour vwap: None
mircea_popescu: nah, it's gotta be 2nd pass, with the usual vague baked in
mircea_popescu: the other half is pushing for simply outlawing it, so.
mircea_popescu: yes. as the us turns into shit, the balancing act consists in avoiding splashing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141700 @ 0.00026009 = 36.8548 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34300 @ 0.00026302 = 9.0216 BTC [+] {2}
gribble: Current Blocks: 357427 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 1420 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 14 hours, 32 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48731864673.8 | Estimated Percent Change: -0.15494
bitstein: asciilifeform: good points. I posted it mostly as a reaction to the knee-jerk reddit response getting all butthurt that he would do such a thing. Of course, indifference may be the best response.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 448400 @ 0.00026496 = 118.8081 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> as far as i can tell, he's just another larcenous piece of shit << well, he's one of the first crop of derpy bureaucrats who thought they;'re gonna leverage the fiat state into a position of bitcoin power in a hostile manner.
mircea_popescu: he was defeated. no big whoop, for anyone except them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123100 @ 0.00026797 = 32.9871 BTC [+] {2}
chetty: well I recall the incident about the kid getting hurt a while back, not so sure about the court case
williamdunne: Sure no I know about the baby I just meant their response
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77000 @ 0.00026812 = 20.6452 BTC [+] {2}
chetty: well I guess one would have to go read the actual court documents to be sure
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 291 @ 0.00476312 = 1.3861 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: eh by now the us police's got to this point where a) they're dumb enough to crash into each other and b) when it happens they'll write the wind a ticket for reckless endangerment.
chetty: asciilifeform, well that is certainly proof we have passed thru the looking glass, if anyone needed proof
davout: News, views, & RABBITZ
mircea_popescu: "Autobiography is only to be trusted when it reveals something disgraceful. A man who gives a good account of himself is probably lying, since any life when viewed from the inside is simply a series of defeats. However, even the most flagrantly dishonest book (Frank Harris's autobiographical writings are an example) can without intending it give a true picture of its author. Dali's recently published LIFE comes under t
mircea_popescu: his heading. Some of the incidents in it are flatly incredible, others have been rearranged and romanticised, and not merely the humiliation but the persistent ORDINARINESS of everyday life has been cut out. Dali is even by his own diagnosis narcissistic, and his autobiography is simply a strip-tease act conducted in pink limelight. But as a record of fantasy, of the perversion of instinct that has been made possible b
mircea_popescu: one wonders what orwell would have thought of twitter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 347506 @ 0.00026531 = 92.1968 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2841 @ 0.00044706 = 1.2701 BTC [+] {5}
davout: fluffypony: i'm in ur meetup, stealing mozilla's wifi
davout: first speech is quite derpy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110500 @ 0.00026218 = 28.9709 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101000 @ 0.00025466 = 25.7207 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115450 @ 0.00024885 = 28.7297 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14250 @ 0.00024857 = 3.5421 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134800 @ 0.00026546 = 35.784 BTC [+] {4}
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu msg ack'd. mega-l0l!
trinque: gabriel_laddel | story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. << don't ever do this; if you can't make money doing it, you're not the guy to do it.
trinque: "I can get us to Mars! It will only take more than any of us have."
trinque: if you're taking us to the damned promised land, better be able to complete the journey
trinque: you may at best go work for the guy who can
trinque: after he beats the word "waste" into your skull
ascii_field: trinque: i dare say that -no one- can make money doing -this-
☟︎ trinque: or on the other hand, if the only route to mars is starvation, maybe we've got no business aiming for mars just yet
jurov: how doest that compare?
trinque: ascii_field: my observation working for a few brilliant guys is that the unwillingness to break the grand vision into chewable pieces results in failure
jurov: can one go to mars by carefully cultivating their mind?
☟︎ trinque: jurov: I am saying that if you think your problem is above economics, you're wrong.
trinque: that said things like cardano look like chewable pieces to me
jurov: go tell that to any of the geniuses who pursue clarity at the cost of starving
jurov: that they are wrong!!!
trinque: what does their clarity get me?
trinque: its as if someone's laying bricks one by one, and the guy with the vision for the road says "NO, YOU MUST LAY THEM ALL AT ONCE!"
trinque: example, our "end user programming environment" (bastard son of spreadsheet) would've made a fine for-profit database editor
trinque: every other product in its space is garbage
trinque: but the guy was dead set on building this whole relational coding environment for... I don't know, your grandmother, anyone, "the people"!
trinque: actually better example than one road, a highway system
trinque: connecting two cities is useful even if the whole system isn't done.
jurov: if noone can snatch it from him repackage and sell, it§s your fault
jurov: have you read the log about quimby/hannah&barbera?
jurov: exactly the same case
trinque: and then whatever convo this brought about
jurov: and it was rehashed literally tonight
trinque: gabriel_laddel | I'm clearly valuable, other people take care of me. << this fucking kid
trinque: these types if they can be managed at all have to be under the command of someone who doesn't give a shit about software as art
trinque: assbot: near as I can tell this masamune is going to make gabriel_laddel rich because it "has" value
trinque: guy's never sold a thing in his life
trinque: and also he "has value" because people are feeding him for free?
ascii_field: trinque: laugh if you like, but my issue with gabriel_laddel is precisely that he is willing to compromise -too much- rather than not enough.
☟︎ trinque: absent this are the economic considerations
trinque: so if there's no path from here to there, it's not a thing
ascii_field: the path is me with 20 years of living expenses paid. or one of possibly 3 other fellas
trinque: considering it as solely an engineering endeavor, you're probably right
trinque: that's a couple million bezzlars tops
trinque: not nearly the umpteen trillion I've heard before
ascii_field: trinque: no, it's approximately this sum in -actual money-
ascii_field: (though whole debate is about whether we ought to fly to alpha centauri or proxima centauri. neither is on the table)
trinque: ascii_field: in your mind is cardano not this kind of pragmatic first step towards future hardware production?
☟︎☟︎ trinque: because considering that I don't see how we disagree
trinque: just sounds like you're not thinking like a business about that
trinque: I'm not talking about the hardware
trinque: er I mean, the engineering of it
trinque: but rather the logistics and cash-flow required to take on the other things
ascii_field: trinque: well, it is also deadly-practical, like a luger
trinque: sure, and I hope you charge me a good amount of margin atop cost to own one
trinque: and perhaps other deadly practical things
trinque: being able to control hardware via gpg-o-gram remotely, suuuuper appealing
ascii_field: point is, hard to compare it with project that requires quite possibly more than one lifetime's worth of ab initio research
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43722 @ 0.00024764 = 10.8273 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173361 @ 0.00024694 = 42.8098 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108542 @ 0.0002471 = 26.8207 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150397 @ 0.00025136 = 37.8038 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13220 @ 0.0002637 = 3.4861 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122100 @ 0.00025735 = 31.4224 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89444 @ 0.00026277 = 23.5032 BTC [+]
ascii_field: (leaving aside the question of whether mr s speaks for hitler)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111500 @ 0.00026948 = 30.047 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: who knows, but snowden TM says call your senator and install appz
ascii_field: (or what, usg hasn't graduated from hogwarts yet and doesn't do poison?)
jurov: "shot and bury at sea" instead
trinque: the whole thing is spectacle
trinque: notably the felonies lack anything about super-top-govt airspace, those were the misdemeanors
trinque: the felonies are simply... we are defining your remote controlled toy as an aircraft
trinque: oh shit, nevermind, it was carrying *him*
trinque: so his felony is being a goddamn badass that built his own gyrocopter?
trinque: they're terrified of capable people
trinque: ascii_field: incredible, I'll read it
ascii_field: (doesn't get him out of the trespassing charge, but 'flying without license')
trinque: does look like an ultralight, doesn't it?
trinque: the thing's a chair and propeller
ascii_field: 'In the room waited Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi, who had stopped by for a photo op and was posing a challenge for officers discussing safe ways to get the prime minister out of the building if necessary.' << oh noez, poor muppet might lose a string or two
assbot: You rated user davout on 27-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: paymium.
assbot: You rated user fluffypony on 20-Apr-2015, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Points out stupidity, and promotes what matters while maintaining his humanity.
ascii_field: incidentally, rust's flight caused the sacking of pretty much the whole of soviet air force brass.
williamdunne: !v assbot:williamdunne.rate.davout.3:c906cea9df253411b904bef8d1ed9d67b4e4e03bed7e9bcd0ecbbcc71ec21ab5
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for davout from 1 to 3 with note: paymium, met IRL
williamdunne: !rate fluffypony 5 Met IRL, OpenRigs, Monero, etc
williamdunne: !v assbot:williamdunne.rate.fluffypony.5:1f6d4e5752dae5fb67b0f36c9a8602478011f173e8805d71ad11c9cb70326a17
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for fluffypony from 3 to 5 with note: Met IRL, OpenRigs, Monero, etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143286 @ 0.00027208 = 38.9853 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108190 @ 0.00027363 = 29.604 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: 'Because the PGP Global Directory allows users to manage lost keys, it cannot use cryptographic mechanisms for verification. Instead, like mailing list servers and other public Internet services, the PGP Global Directory verifies a key by requiring a response to a verification email sent to each email address specified on the key.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 183601 @ 0.00025953 = 47.65 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: 'The PGP Global Directory is not a replacement for the PGP Web of Trust, but an additional mechanism to provide a global foundation for the PGP Web of Trust that enables opportunistic secure communications.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70000 @ 0.00027177 = 19.0239 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24806 @ 0.00027177 = 6.7415 BTC [+]
trinque: Hasimir: register a key and I'll give you a 1 to self-voice in the future
Hasimir: though I thought it had my key ... no matter
Hasimir: the sole purpose of that directory key is to provide minimal (stress minimal) proof that the entity controlling an email address approves the key as theirs, no more
Hasimir: the other key (kind of) like it is the Hushmail DEMO key
Hasimir: anyone not using hush can get their key signed by that by registering their key through the hushtools.com site and later retrieving the signed copy
Hasimir: the other reason for using that, though, is to allow hush users to encrypt to you
Hasimir: which really surprises journalists
trinque: !v assbot:trinque.rate.Hasimir.1:ee9a4ae47c1dbfa21b646a35781ef846e516c54a915fa94d0a8160270a65b2f8
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for Hasimir with note: new blood
Hasimir: anyway, things like the directory key and the hush key are about the same as keybase.io
Hasimir: well, keybase might be a little more useful (but would be better if it did not try to manage private keys for anyone)
ascii_field: Hasimir: idk why anyone would want to pwn it, either. ask the fine folks who made the faux key for it..
Hasimir: well, current theory from werner is it's just a software bug
ascii_field: Hasimir: examine the evidence for yourself. tell me it is a bug.
Hasimir: erm ... do you use gpg or something else to access openpgp functionality?
ascii_field: 'About 30 key with a valid key binding but with a partly duplicated
ascii_field: subkey where both have a valid key binding signature. Most likely a software bug.' << possible
ascii_field: and aha, they are already starting with 'That reminds if of a private discussion I had last autumn. Some guy
ascii_field: downloaded most RSA keys from a keyserver and tried to factor....'
ascii_field: shitgnomes and their 'it didn't happen. if it happened, it doesn't matter. if it matters - one of -our- people did it first, of course!'
☟︎ ascii_field: 'Incidentally, I met one of the other guys with a broken subkey at
ascii_field: LinuxCon and he told me that some folks complained that they can't encrypt to him. For other this was no problem, though.' << this part should surprise no one. the boobytrap works on -someone-.
☟︎ Hasimir: he was copied in on the email directly
Hasimir: but has since said he's not interested (the follow up by DKG has that)
☟︎ Hasimir: anyway, until the specific cause is identified, it can't be called either way
ascii_field: aaaand for some reason this only happens to interesting keys, aha
ascii_field: cosmic rays and memory corruption, apparently, can not only create valid self-sigs, but spare boring folks like you & i.
Hasimir: but what makes them interesting? just that it happened?
Hasimir: didn't spare all the boring folks
☟︎ Hasimir: Charly Avital is on that list too
Hasimir: and he's a 70-year-old hobbyist
Hasimir: just the local computer club kind
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101100 @ 0.00027177 = 27.4759 BTC [+]
Hasimir: and you said boring, like 7 lines up
ascii_field: Hasimir: you claimed that '70-year-old hobbyist' is necessarily boring
Hasimir: oh, I see what you mean now ... so how are his keys more interesting than ours?
trinque: that would be the thing to answer
ascii_field: or perhaps he does not claim this, but passes off as plausible
Hasimir: specifically in relation to merging keys, not in general
ascii_field: to even give this hypothesis the time of day, just imagine.
ascii_field: aaaaand 'we did this all, yes, believe us, we just never bothered to mention in public'
Hasimir: proving or disproving it would require merging multiple keys across a broad range of openpgp implementations and operating systems
☟︎ ascii_field: Hasimir: the null hypothesis is not 'miracle happened.' this is not how it works.
Hasimir: yes, but it doesn't prove your malicious bastards theory either
Hasimir: no one on that list has said, "this is the answer" - they're discussing theories and you're attacking them for doing so, it seems a bit odd
☟︎ ascii_field: Hasimir: you are asking me to believe that a large number of moduli, carefully crafted such that in mutilated form, they are factorable -and- have valid sigs, is something that could somehow happen by accident.
ascii_field: and that the presence of several 'interesting' names in the list, is also merely fortuitous.
ascii_field: and that the burden of proof somehow lies on the reasonable, literate folks who can see, plain as daylight, that this is as likely as a bullet spontaneously materializing inside lincoln
Hasimir: Phil Zimmermann isn't on that list, neither is RMS or even a former PM of my country (and yes, it was a real key)
ascii_field: no one said it includes whole planet's worth of 'cool kidz'
Hasimir: there are plenty of more interesting keys to target than that list
trinque: Hasimir: now who is speculating
ascii_field: and this is supposed to be an argument in favour of miracle ??!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95021 @ 0.00027685 = 26.3066 BTC [+] {2}
Hasimir: trinque, true, but if the malicious bastards theory is the most viable answer: what is the motive?
trinque: that's not the question to ask
trinque: the question is "what do these keys have in common?"
ascii_field: Hasimir: damned if i know. i - only see the bullet.
trinque: and that isn't currently known
ascii_field: Hasimir: good number of german pirate party folks
trinque: great reason to keep digging though
ascii_field: (who else gives a phuck about german pirate party)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82929 @ 0.00028027 = 23.2425 BTC [+]
Hasimir: ascii_field, we certainly don't, it's why we split from ppi
Hasimir: I need to script that, clearly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99347 @ 0.00028027 = 27.844 BTC [+]
Hasimir: oh, did I forget to mention, I'm the treasurer of pirate party australia
☟︎☟︎ ascii_field: 'Is it possible that a keyserver running the old, buggy PKS code
ascii_field: (v. 0.9.something) mangled these keys?' << are they idiots or just pretending ?
Hasimir: it's just a question, what's the problem with asking it?
Hasimir waits for the penny to drop ...
trinque: "teach the controversy" tactic
Hasimir: I can assure you that post in particular is from someone who just wants to know the answer
trinque: on the one hand, how something functions, on the other, what someone intends
ascii_field: someone who, charitable interpretation is, did not take even five minutes to think.
ascii_field: 'perhaps the bullet was always in lincoln, from birth'
trinque: the vast majority of responses I've seen to this are of the "not worth looking into" variety
jurov: what if the answer is no, keyserver can't ever produce valid sig in this case?
trinque: not "this is why this is bullshit"
jurov: Hasimir, how can keyserver produce signatures of anything?
Hasimir: jurov, it can't, but if the sig was already there, but other data got mangled, it might account for some things
trinque: if a factored subkey has a sig from the master key wtf
Hasimir: the lack of data indicating cipher prefs on a key
ascii_field: and why would a 'bug' affect ONLY (!!!) 1) moduli 2) m^d mod n 3) exponent, which is ALWAYS 281479271743489 after the transformation, regardless of what it originally was 3) ALL FIELDS ARE CORRECTLY SIZED
☟︎ trinque: I'm an idiot and I understand that much
Hasimir: such as in the case of the key dignork and I discussed earlier
jurov: Hasimir, so I take some key, mangle "data indicating cipher prefs" and whatnot, and viola, valid signature without original key's owner knowledge?
ascii_field: and we are to believe that this happens by accident, with no other bits flipped. ever.
Hasimir: I never claimed to have answers, but you guys are locked into the "it must be a conspiracy" mindset and assuming any criticism is part of the conspiracy
☟︎ ascii_field: incidentally, i just walked the totality of sks db looking for -all- rsa keys with pub-exponents equal to 281479271743489.
ascii_field: they are -all- in the set from the heuristic published on mircea_popescu's www.
jurov: Hasimir: you're too willing not to think about it and handwave it away
ascii_field: Hasimir: yes. you can write a proggy to create this type of key from any rsa pubkey you like.
Hasimir: jurov, not so, if that were the case I wouldn't be here discussing it
ascii_field: Hasimir: please realize that so far you are setting off every possible alarm in my head, 'disinfo agent'
trinque: incidentally I don't recall anyone here making specific claims about who is behind this
ascii_field: Hasimir: also realize that we are talking about an experiment which -any- interested reader, at this point, could replicate.
ascii_field: data is public. the code, largely - also public.
Hasimir: trinque, except for the BND ...
ascii_field: BND is just a random guess of mine at present, based on the de pirate party thing
ascii_field: but there are human fingerprints on it. take the 'bug' or 'cosmic ray' hypothesis to a home for retarded folks. nobody here is dumb enough to fall for it.
ascii_field: this goes for -all- the agents who read the logs.
Hasimir: alright, assume you're right then, what do they gain by doing this in a way that can be found by regular(-ish) geeks?
☟︎ trinque: the gain may have already been had
ascii_field: Hasimir: look when it was done, and when found
Hasimir: in which case the target is on that list
ascii_field: Hasimir: the target is almost certainly -not- on the list
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00028515 = 7.8416 BTC [+]
ascii_field: it is someone who -would have written- to one or more of the folks on the list.
Hasimir: so someone who already had all those keys in their keyring ...
Hasimir: or at least all the names ...
ascii_field: for all we know, it is possible that on some pgp client the faux keys could replace the genuine ones if user ever 'synced' from sks
ascii_field: i very much get what the agents are trying to achieve, yes.
ascii_field: a soft fecal matter consensus that 'there is nothing worth looking into here, move along'
Hasimir: I think there's something worth looking into it until an answer is confirmed
Hasimir: you realise that's not a change of attitude, right?
Hasimir: though logic and healthy skepticism requires questioning myself just as much, if not more so, than anyone else ...
BingoBoingo: Hasimir: You have to understand influence agents of various sorts have passed here before
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 16:47:05; asciilifeform: once you've been 'taught the controversy' - that is, convincing that there -even is- reasonable debate among informed people, on a particular subject - the lie becomes a kind of half-truth, automagically
mod6: <+ascii_field> 'Is it possible that a keyserver running the old, buggy PKS code ... << this is gotta be trolling, right??
trinque: plausibility of the lie is what's sought, not confirming it
Hasimir: BingoBoingo, somewhere I have a log of a PM with that guy who we later learned was the undercover agent going after silk road v1
☟︎ ascii_field: mod6: they are so accustomed to the illiteracy of the general public, that they are entirely unprepared for folks with half a clue.
☟︎ trinque: Hasimir: that would be an awesome thing to sign and deedbot-
Hasimir: trinque, it includes him trying to lure me into discussing it and me giving him armchair legal advice
trinque: sounds hilarious; deedbot- it!
Hasimir: it is so much funnier with knowing who packt/c0dex is ...
Hasimir: I'll have a look at this deedbot thing then ...
ascii_field: Hasimir: incidentally, zimmerman is not on the list because he is an nsa asset in good standing. the 'silent circle' and multi-coloured phones idiocies are more than ample proof of this
ascii_field: usg -has- his genuine private key when it wants to.
ascii_field: but to classify him as a genuine person may turn out to be dangerous for one's health (assuming that one is not asset himself)
Hasimir: well, I know nsa head-hunted at least one nai employee back when they owned pgp corp
Hasimir: as far as I'm aware he's still working for NSA
ascii_field: if zimmerman isn't in the pay of usg - he oughta be sending them a bill.
Hasimir: or by their selinux mailing list in this case
Hasimir: speaking of ancient arcane shit ... I also have a full copy of everything that the nsa had on radium.ncsc.mil prior to september 11
Hasimir: it includes the rainbow series
Hasimir: I should probably pop that onto an s3 instance
trinque: Hasimir: deedbot records the sha256 of gpg signed messages into the bitcoin blockchain
jurov: heh seems there will be leaks.b-a.link soon
Hasimir: trinque, and the docs are where?
Hasimir: or just signed and ascii armoured?
Hasimir: does it look for the "BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE" header?
trinque: Hasimir: either that or a public key
trinque: you have to feed him your public key first, and it checks that against what assbot knows about
Hasimir: ah, that explains why it can't be done with gpg -sa (a pity, that's a great way to avoid encoding errors)
trinque: I synced over keys from assbot once, but am not running it via cron yet
Hasimir: as in charset encoding errors
trinque: Hasimir: deedbot- has his own key in the WoT, rate him and leave feedback and I'll get to it
Hasimir: all it would take would be the same as allowing it to hash any pgp message
Hasimir: the output looks the same, but with -sa it's not encrypted, just signed
trinque: encoding hasn't been a problem yet
trinque: anyhow use it, see what works/doesn't, rate the guy
trinque: I tend to hack on it on the weekends
Hasimir: I've got a lot of crap ... er, code like that
trinque: yup, I don't tend to stop coding, just swap which project
Hasimir: the pyme port was a weekend effort ... about a fortnight ago
Hasimir: but then I'm a fan of py3 (yes, yes, I'm a heretic too)
trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel ok, I'm loading up masamune
trinque: fucker got me with his "3d" CLIM, whatever that means
trinque: Hasimir: it has a few sites whitelisted
deedbot-: imported: DB4724E6FA4286C92B4E55C4321E4E2373590E5D
Hasimir: nice little api on dpaste too ...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 159350 @ 0.00027277 = 43.4659 BTC [-] {3}
Hasimir: oh wow, paypal just capitulated -- I'll be back later, I've got Treasurer duties to perform
cazalla: Hasimir, from Melbourne eh?
Hasimir: ok, account drained, now I can relax a little ...
cazalla: to borrow from 8chan.. >>2015, still voting
Hasimir: I guess paypal take allegations of 14 counts of their breaching the electoral act seriously after all ...
cazalla: Hasimir, what do you gain by wasting time trying to change the politics down under?
Hasimir: I wish I could've seen their internal company panic, though
Hasimir: I've got a greater chance of influencing here than in the capital of the world ... I mean America
Hasimir: granted, not a huge chance
cazalla: meh i gave up voting years ago, don't even bother turning up whether it's local, state or federal election.. they can pay me for my time if they're that keen for my vote
trinque: last vote I cast was for Ron Paul in 2008, lol
cazalla: trinque, at least you have the option not to vote.. i usually find myself rediscovering my religious roots on election day which exempts me from wasting my time.. why Hasimir would volunteer to waste even more of his time though, i can't figure that one
☟︎ trinque: compulsory voting, hilarious
Hasimir: well, technically it's compulsory getting your name ticked off, but most vote once they're there
cazalla: AEC send a please explain letter and that's the end of it
Hasimir: yeah, I missed a local council election once and got a similar thing
Hasimir: on the plus side, being more politically active than the vec makes it believable when I say I was too sick to walk to the polling station
cazalla: it's against my religious values to vote is already more than i should be required to tell them
cazalla: i've never had an issue with it or received a fine
cazalla: and anyway, you don't need to vote in order to be politically active
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109150 @ 0.00027652 = 30.1822 BTC [+]
Hasimir: also true, but I'm addicted to the game
cazalla: BingoBoingo, acid for blood?
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Looks like a mix of some sort didn't want to stay in its container