⏐︎ 18521
jurov: BingoBoingo: would it be interesting for qntra how czech financial cops investigated bitcash.cz "theft"?
BingoBoingo: jurov: Sure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43800 @ 0.00035202 = 15.4185 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/0f0cffa45644dd67ee622259992191ab/tumblr_n1h3x5MeFW1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg to go with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__HPfmvaWRw
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1B6bctz )
assbot: Kid Rock - Redneck Paradise (Remix) ft. Hank Williams Jr. [Music Video] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1B6bbG1 )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 110 @ 0.01460363 = 1.6064 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: (pete will no doubt notice that ALL THE VEHICLES ARE MERCEDES_
decimation: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150310/15522730277/california-proposes-bill-to-ban-all-unlicensed-bitcoin-businesses-without-even-defining-what-that-means.shtml < lol
assbot: California Proposes Bill To Ban All Unlicensed Bitcoin Businesses, Without Even Defining What That Means | Techdirt ... ( http://bit.ly/1B6cqFd )
decimation: banks, gov't, etc are 'exempt' of course
trinque: decimation: eh more like "one member of the california legislature proposes"
trinque: still pretty fucked
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 296.71, Best ask: 296.89, Bid-ask spread: 0.18000, Last trade: 296.89, 24 hour volume: 25417.80268383, 24 hour low: 291.0, 24 hour high: 298.75, 24 hour vwap: None
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Jurov: http://qntra.net/2015/03/czech-ministry-fingers-heist-suspect/
mircea_popescu: decimation lol
mircea_popescu: kinda goes a long way to show the unmitigated contempt california holds for... well, basically, you.
mircea_popescu: wait, by now gribble does bitfinex only ? lol.
jurov: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 295.0, vol: 6849.16021121 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 293.469, vol: 11302.18543 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 295.89, vol: 25132.70245094 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 295.403478, vol: 162128.90550000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 296.93748, vol: 36.80919596 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 294.4287, vol: 95.69692435 | Volume-weighted last average: 295.34297304
jurov: dunno how it chooses, by volume?
mircea_popescu: amusingly, btcchina has what, 70-80% of all volume
BingoBoingo: !up stunna
BingoBoingo surprised no one's commenting on Jurov being in line for his own s.qntr shares
mircea_popescu: i thought it was pretty cool.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60650 @ 0.00034511 = 20.9309 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45978 @ 0.00035287 = 16.2243 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21922 @ 0.00035338 = 7.7468 BTC [+]
decimation: re: the unmitigated contempt california holds for... well, basically, you. < yes, this is noted. every day reveals a bit more of its true self, if only in its fantasies
asciilifeform: xerxes whips the sea, snore.
decimation: related: http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/march/11/the-intellectual-as-servant-of-the-state/
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ed29f4 )
decimation: ^ author of the above was in army, had a son in the army, son died in iraq
asciilifeform: decimation: https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/TreasonV3.HTM << related
assbot: Treason of the Intellectuals, Volume 3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ed2e2r )
decimation: he is now on a krazy korner railing against usg
decimation: yet he has given his life and his own son in service of usg, and accomplished nothing
decimation: reminds me of that tlp piece about hating the system so much you want it to like you
asciilifeform: and of course, the obligatory lenin, 'intellectual is not his nation's head, but its arse'
asciilifeform: (TM)
mircea_popescu: ahaha treason of the intellectuals verbiage, srlsy ?!
decimation: heh yeah that is related
mircea_popescu: dude, la revolucion is so fucking banal. always the same moves.
mircea_popescu: decimation this is the so called stupid wife paradox. it goes like this : when she's young she thumbs her nose at submission, because hey, she's not "that kind of girl". so she finds a husband instead, spends two-three decades discovering that it's a rotten deal, then gets to live with teh regret.
mircea_popescu: youth wasted on the young and all that.
decimation: mircea_popescu: of course the french philosophes pretty much founded the 'revolutionary intellectual' archetype
mircea_popescu: depends how you count the greek sophist.
mircea_popescu: or the byzantine byzantine. or the medieval courtier.
mircea_popescu: look into the abomination of "courtly love" to see 1100ad shitgnomism en fleur.
decimation: yeah, but the french revolution is a clean presentation of the modern 'revolutionary intellectual' and the consequences if he gains power
mircea_popescu: certainly more amply documented in "not dead" languages.
decimation: heh yeah
asciilifeform: hey folks still speak occitan and languadoc
asciilifeform: *languedoc
decimation: plus the history of the french revolution is still shrouded by those who have a stake in its outcome
asciilifeform: obligatory deng xiaoping here...
mircea_popescu: hence the scare quotes
mircea_popescu: heck, folks still speak greek. and it's certainly more mutually intelligible with classical greek than current english with high english.
asciilifeform: irrc it was him who was asked 'was fr. rev. a good idea?' answered 'too early to say'
decimation: or low german
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you like living fossilization, visit iceland
decimation: english arose because some retarded vikings living in the netherlands couldn't speak german
asciilifeform: more or less bug-for-bug compatibility with classical norse
mircea_popescu: decimation plattdeustch is still spoken, like idish
decimation: yeah, germany still hasn't steamrolled all of its accents
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: believe or not - there are idish newspapers in usa.
mircea_popescu: i used to know a guy publishing one
mircea_popescu: meanwhile dead, bu anyway
mircea_popescu: but anyway, anyone guess what "hron rade" denotes, in "english" ?
decimation: honarary?
decimation: heh honorary
mircea_popescu: (i'll help by pointing out that alf's device in discussing xerxes is structurally similar but stylistically very indicative of the changes in society since then)
asciilifeform: hey what can i do in barbaric tongue
mircea_popescu: anyway : "the sea" is the hellespont (which is what xerxes ordered flogged) in the same way hron (whale's) rade (road) is the sea.
mircea_popescu: one's categorical symbolization, the other's a kenning.
decimation: kenning as in kennelernen?
asciilifeform: everyone who likes kennings, straight to norse book, 'do not pass go, do not collect 200'
mircea_popescu: as in this poetic device
mircea_popescu: ;;google kenning site:trilema.com
gribble: Decembrie 2010 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2010/12>; Trilenciclopedia pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/trilenciclopedia/>
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2010/kenning-si-rhyming-slang/ ere we go.
assbot: Kenning si rhyming slang pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ed3Glu )
asciilifeform: http://kip-w.livejournal.com/215011.html << absolutely obligatory re: kennings
assbot: Varnish Error 503 Service Unavailable ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ed3GSk )
asciilifeform: mega-classic
mircea_popescu: btw, anyone know how cockney got to be called that ? ☟︎
decimation: kennenlernen means 'familiarity' in german
mircea_popescu: decimation learning by similarity something
decimation: wasn't there a certain church bell
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: the story is, that a london redditard (poor kid from periphery) visited some peasant family once
mircea_popescu: which was impressive to him, because a) they had food and b) good living conditions (as compared to shitlondon of the time)
mircea_popescu: but especially c) all sorts of weird exotic shit.
mircea_popescu: so one time when a horse neighed, he got all scared. but the farmer told him to relax, horse just does that, it's called neighing and it never killed anyone.
mircea_popescu: time for bed, and in the early morning a very morose londoner sat with his breakfast.
mircea_popescu: "s'thematter, couldn't sleep any ?"
mircea_popescu: "holy shit all these cocks neighing!"
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: 'Down came good Freya, frowning at Fúfu. / Said she to the warren-born: "No worth I find / In your smiting of cheese-thieves. Smirk not, but obey me...'
asciilifeform: ^ mega-k3nn1ngz
mircea_popescu: cats ?
asciilifeform: (from earlier link)
decimation: yeah it's the same root https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kennen#German "From Old High German kennan, from Proto-Germanic *kannijaną (“to know”). Cognate to English ken (“knowledge, understanding”)."
assbot: kennen - Wiktionary ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ed4dUq )
mircea_popescu: it is.
mircea_popescu: btw, re "useful idiots", anyone actually read Mona Charen ?
asciilifeform: 'Bien Darkmans then, Bouse Mort and Ken The bien Coves bings awast, On Chates to trine by Rome-Coves dine, For his long lib at last.' ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: engl. has 'ken'
asciilifeform: or perhaps not quite modern engl. but hey whatddayawant
decimation: I want an original "PIE" dictionary
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25778 @ 0.00035313 = 9.103 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: http://www.fromoldbooks.org/Farmer-MusaPedestris/bing-out-bien-morts.html << but also from twain 'prince&pauper'
assbot: Bing Out, Bien Morts (Canting Songs) ... ( http://bit.ly/1b3cocm )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15554 @ 0.00035398 = 5.5058 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: (i don't know anyone who didn't first run into it in p&p)
mircea_popescu: "In Western democracies, even in the U.S. where the hostility to regulation is greatest, there is a vast amount of central decision-making, but day to day decisions are left to market forces. A lot of the regulation - everything from bolt threads to type fonts - is carried out by tens of thousands of standardization agreements worked out by the industries involved. The solutions that arise aren't always optimal, but th
mircea_popescu: ey usually end up being workable. After two decades of fumbling, we have settled on a de facto standard for computer operating systems. It has imperfections - some serious - but it generally works. Imagine being saddled with a computer architecture defined by some central planning committee in 1983. At about that time, someone in the U.S. Government realized with horror that all the standardization agreements mentioned
mircea_popescu: above were being made and enforced with no government oversight. So the Government convened some hearings. The unanimous consensus, even by Ralph Nader, was that attempting to regulate this process was an invitation to chaos. "
mircea_popescu: lawl. this guy misread so much of recent history i'm giving up on reading it.
asciilifeform: phun phakt: usg really did come out with a 'standard' cpu!
asciilifeform: around same time as ada '83
asciilifeform: the only present-day manufacturers are chinese
asciilifeform: (and are also the only, afaik, remaining users...)
asciilifeform: 'mil-std-1750a' for the curious. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: yup
asciilifeform: so dead, was snipped from gcc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6273 @ 0.00034181 = 2.1442 BTC [-]
mod6: so i made some additional changes to the modified pogo script. anyone wanna help me test quick? I tested it myself, but it'd be cool if someone else can verify.
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/03/blythe-masters-to-head-wall-street-invasion/
mod6: what's changed? 1) added some checks to see if boost,bdb,openssl are already built, if so, skip re-downloading & building 2) added a 'clean' command line parameter so you don't have to do this manually
mod6: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=A07gdeGX
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ed76Va )
asciilifeform: mod6: neato. incidentally that's what, traditionally, 'make' is for
asciilifeform was simply too lazy to write a proper 'makefile'
mod6: yup, it just simply utilizes the makefile. but this way a person only has to run `auto.sh`
mod6: :]
asciilifeform: 'make' simply doesn't react well to being called from 'make'.
asciilifeform: (why? because retarded, don't ask me)
asciilifeform: that's why my orig. thing was a .sh
mod6: yeah, makefiles are touchy
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i'm rather surprised it took them so long to hook up the goldpricedumpatron to btc
asciilifeform: though it's kinda a sad joke
asciilifeform: (compare 'physical settlement' in btc to gold, etc)
mircea_popescu: "hook" is being generous.
decimation: asciilifeform: if make is so terrible, why is it ubiquitous?
decimation: it's not like it 'fits into the cpu' like C does
mod6: so if you have a linux machine, and you want to help test, read this: http://dpaste.com/17V9VKB
assbot: dpaste: 17V9VKB ... ( http://bit.ly/1b3eHft )
decimation: mod6: you could have enumerated in octal and saved a few characters :)
mod6: fair. ;)
asciilifeform: decimation: there are plenty of 'crackpot' alternatives ('cmake', 'bake', .... 1001 others) but guess what
decimation: I kinda like scons
decimation: shitgnomery?
mircea_popescu: decimation no. jwzery. this attitude whereby one's excused from political involvement.
mircea_popescu: "so what if make sucks, not like i have the responsibility to find and support an improvement. i just type here."
mircea_popescu: "so the wife's a nag ? doesn't mean i /have to/ beat her until she desists. build mancave instead." on it goes. politicians are idiots ? self-appoint as "better than this" and that's that, work done. not like you have to shoot the bad politico if you can't vote him out. what, /have to/ ?!
mircea_popescu: not the right sort of morals, these, that are actionable. gotta have some of a more theoretical sort.
danielpbarron: mod6, http://danielpbarron.com/mod6.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1b3ffCe )
mod6: huh.
mod6: thanks for testing
mod6: ima invite you to #btcf
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: sikrits!~
mod6: we'll keep the noise outta here, unless you want ... NOISE :)
decimation: i want the noise
mircea_popescu: up to you. i dun think it's yet unwelcome.
decimation: mircea_popescu: it's common in the us for a usg employee to regard himself as 'apolitical' because he wasn't elected
mircea_popescu: well sure.
mircea_popescu: what's it change tho. it's common for rapists to regard themselves as "good fathers" and so forth, because she was asking for it or w/e.
mod6: ok... so. lets see here. i do think that ascii updated his key since then...
mod6: but i don't ever get that error... although, someone else has seen it before iirc.
asciilifeform: same modulus!
decimation: mod6: i'm running into a bad sig error too
decimation: virgin gpg db
danielpbarron: oh i just realized that the script potentially uses a different key than the one i have stored
mod6: it /shouldnt/ matter because it puts a .gnupg dir in the place where you run the script from. we didn't want it to diddle with your normal keyring in ~/
mod6: unless you ran it from ~/
mircea_popescu: ;;ud cuckcake
gribble: http://el.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cuckcake | Η λέξηcuckcake δεν έχει οριστεί. Μπορείς να την ορίσεις;. * Meaning. Τυχαία Λέξη. Μόδα. duff · bae · fuck boy · bdsm · cleveland steamer · dirty sanchez · angry ...
mod6: did you guys make new dirs to build this stuff in?
mircea_popescu: heh
danielpbarron: yes
mod6: what does `gpg --version` say?
decimation: I'm using 2.0.14 (comes with centos 6)
danielpbarron: gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.26
mod6: hmm, still, should be ok. i just re-ran on my side and got: >> Signature verified for bitcoin-asciilifeform.1.patch.sig
mod6: one sec.
decimation: :signature packet: algo 1, keyid B98228A001ABFFC7
mod6: what's weird to me... is that the log output that danielpbarron pasted, it says "good signature"
danielpbarron: i checked it manually
mod6: OH
decimation: Importing public keys to .gnupg keyring...
decimation: Verifing patch signatures..
decimation: Error! Possible bad signature on:
decimation: ~/bitcoin-v009/build/chicken/bitcoin-asciilifeform.1.patch.sig
asciilifeform: wat
mod6: oh that wasn't from the log output. ok. i wonder why it would puke for you guys, but not for me... although, im running 1.4.10
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70849 @ 0.00035393 = 25.0756 BTC [+]
decimation: asciilifeform: try it on your gentoo box
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24823 @ 0.00035394 = 8.7859 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: you know it's be so great if someone made a client that auto-pastebinned
mod6: i suppose it could be some weird regex failure... although, what danielpbarron pasted as a manual verify should have matched this:
mod6: 313 if($_ =~ /^.*Good signature.*$/) {
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93636 @ 0.00036156 = 33.855 BTC [+] {6}
asciilifeform: b.sh: line 2: $'\r': command not found
asciilifeform: and buncha similar.
decimation: I get a buncha errors in the gpg_import.log
mod6: can you post those decimation?
mod6: asciilifeform: what script was that?
asciilifeform: the one in question
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 226241 @ 0.00036729 = 83.0961 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: the perl script?
asciilifeform: sh
decimation: http://dpaste.com/2141VBQ
assbot: dpaste: 2141VBQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1b3gCk8 )
asciilifeform: does not run at all on my box
mod6: oh we're all discussing them pulling down the patch files, verifing the patch sigs and patching the base code
mod6: (build-v009.pl)
asciilifeform: i mean, my 'sh' won't swallow it.
trinque: that it's $HOME maybe?
trinque: gpg is fouling up not finding the keyring
asciilifeform: Ah
decimation: it's a little weird to use $HOME that isn't $HOME
asciilifeform: there's fucking winblows garbage in this thing ☟︎
asciilifeform: WTF
mod6: decimation: fair. i'll change that next time through.
asciilifeform: did 'pastebin' crap that in ?
asciilifeform: there's CR LF's in there
decimation: lol in my dpaste?
asciilifeform pronounced fatwa on 'pastebin'
mod6: root@debian-test:/home/mod6/build-test-3# xxd build-v009.pl | grep "0d0a"
asciilifeform: in http://dpaste.com/2141VBQ
assbot: dpaste: 2141VBQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1b3gCk8 )
mod6: root@debian-test:/home/mod6/build-test-3#
mod6: yeah, must be pastebin :/
mod6: sorry
asciilifeform: dos2unix fixes.
asciilifeform: but let all remember.
decimation: asciilifeform: everything feels free to mangle a passing cr I guess
mod6: i use pastebin more often because it does forever-pastes .. guess.. i just have to set dpaste for a year
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-10-2014#901052 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-10-2014#901055 ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-10-2014 01:36:19; asciilifeform: because plain ascii is like naked people
assbot: Logged on 29-10-2014 01:36:30; asciilifeform: everything feels free to manipulate the hanging bits
trinque: ^LOL
mod6: :]
decimation: ^also randomly insert chars
asciilifeform: so far the deps are grinding
mod6: decimation: huh, just looked at that error. must be something with 2.x version i'll have to fix0r.
mod6: can you change expiry on that guy for like 1 year?
decimation: yeah obviously some kind of permission problem
decimation: for the dpaste?
mod6: plz
decimation: done
mircea_popescu: !up p15
mod6: if you run it again and you don't have $FULL_CLEAN set to "TRUE", you'll need to delete ~/build/.gnupg manually.
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform pronounced fatwa on 'pastebin' << kakobrekla said we're supposed to use dpaste.
mod6: ugh. anyway, i was hoping this would be the /easy/ part and we could actually test the part that needs testing lol.
asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=A07gdeGX << and i meant this
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BymQRE )
asciilifeform: not the output
asciilifeform: but that was probably clear.
asciilifeform: betcha 'dpaste' takes a fat shit in there all the same
asciilifeform: but somebody test if want to
asciilifeform: it's building 'openssl' on my box now. and probably will for a few hrs, it's a slow box
decimation: mod6: I set $FULL_CLEAN to "FALSE" and it didn't do anything different
decimation: I blew away build/.gnupg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71419 @ 0.00036213 = 25.863 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: here's that same script in dpaste: http://dpaste.com/36249E3
assbot: dpaste: 36249E3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1b3hQft )
mod6: decimation: ok. that's fine. not sure what it's deal is.
mod6: thanks for giving it a shot.
decimation: no problem
decimation: it's probably a good idea to get it working on centos6 because that's pretty much the 'amazon linux' shit
mod6: eh, all around it's not much of an issue with the perl script, because no one will run that ever anyway.
mod6: i'll use it to patch the source code, then i'll bundle up the release.
mod6: everyone will start with an already patched codebase, unless they want to patch it manually or wrestle with one of the 2 scripts we have for this purpose
mod6: it seems, everyone has a mixed bag so it's hard to account for all of that i think.
decimation: yeah cross-platform is a pain in the ass
mod6: asciilifeform: this is the correct key to pull for you right?
mod6: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB98228A001ABFFC7
assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0xb98228a001abffc7 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1b3iedJ )
mod6: decimation: anyway, it totally works fine for me on my aws machine.
mod6: oh, i guess im running a deb6 ami up there.
decimation: lemme try
mod6: and yeah, im using gpg 1.4.10 there too
mod6: so centos6 might have issues if gpg 2.x, so maybe i just need to get my head out of my ass and add some code for that.
decimation: yeah ec2 uses gpg 2.0.25
trinque: mod6: I got through the patching script fine on latest gentoo
trinque: what shell is supposed to be running the next one
mod6: it's a bourne shell script /bin/sh
trinque: my sh does not have -xu
trinque: I think in debian sh is dash, maybe?
mod6: ahh, just take off those params then. it doesn't need 'em i don't think.
trinque: k
mod6: ben addded those, not exactly sure what they do. lol. ☟︎
trinque strokes the cargo
mod6: thanks for testing trinque
asciilifeform: still cranking 'boost'
mod6: ahh, ok cool.
mod6: did you get through the perl script ok alf?
asciilifeform: wai wat
asciilifeform: is that in the sh somewhere
trinque: mod6: no problem, chugging along in the build
mod6: no, the perl script is a separate thing that grabs the v0.5.3 base code and then patches it. then `auto.sh' pulls bdb,openssl,and boost and builds 'em and then builds the static bitcoind
mod6: for all: keep in mind if you're not running the test on a x64 machine, you'll probably have to edit the vars on lines 4, 6 & 8
asciilifeform: neh it is
decimation: interesting, it seems that it works just fine on amazon linux
decimation: so it's not a gpg2 thing
mod6: ok so your amazon linux is running gpg v 1.4.10?
decimation: no 2.0.25
asciilifeform: built deps, croaked on not finding bitcoin src
danielpbarron: oh uh.. i'm not running on a x64 machine (if that means bits in processor)
asciilifeform: why are these separate scripts again ?
mod6: danielpbarron: yeah, that'll be a problem. what os/arch are you on?
mod6: asciilifeform: because how we'll roll out the release: 1) I'll patch the source myself and put it in a 'bitcoin' directory 2) i'll place the 'auto.sh' in the same parent directory as 'bitcoin' directory 3) tar those up 4) end user will unpack archive and execute `auto.sh'
danielpbarron: gentoo i386
mod6: so in the end the downloading/patching of the v0.5.3 base code won't be necessary since it'll already be complete.
mod6: danielpbarron: ok, change line 4 to: "32", line 6 to: "x86_32" and line 8 to: "linux-x86_32"
mod6: and cross fingers
mod6: i've never tested this on 32bit so this is a first.
mod6: in fact.
trinque: decimation: did you try changing that home var to something else?
decimation: yes
trinque: I search and replaced mine with BUILD_DIR
trinque: so as not to mask $HOME
decimation: I'll try that
danielpbarron: of what, auto.sh ? I hadn't even gotten that far yet
mod6: while you're at it danielpbarron comment out line 130 of "auto.sh" so I can have you run one other command if you get through the static build.
mod6: (130 = "strip" command)
mod6: sorry, yes.
mod6 is slow.
decimation: trinque: no that didn't work
danielpbarron: no sorry i'm just distracted by the 3d gun guy trying to impress me on twitter
mod6: at the end of the static build there are 2 ugly warnings, but they're just warnings. so no worries.
mod6: heheh.
mod6: np, thanks for your help.
decimation: it might be that the umask on the amazon box is group writable, but isn't on my centos6 obx
mod6: hmm. noted. thanks decimation
danielpbarron: fwiw, I got 50 USD worth of link clicks pointing at this -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042514 ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 04:00:14; asciilifeform: to round off the electrobullet thread, i made this gedankenexperiment up for this just to show what folks like wilson -would- be doing if they were serious
decimation: ok I fixed it
decimation: http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2001-April/008269.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1C8Z2HE )
decimation: you need to add --lock-never to make it work, because I am using a shitty vm-mounted filesystem that doesn't support hardlinks ☟︎
asciilifeform: what means '50 usd worth' ? that it cost you that much bandwidth ?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron ^
decimation: (add it to your gpg command line in the script)
mod6: decimation: nice find!
danielpbarron: idk, twitter makes up the number; that's what it would have cost me to promote it myself (if not for wilson himself actually replying to it and getting it free attention)
asciilifeform: link? or was it boring
decimation: see if that's backwards compatible to gpg v1
danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/575817719272071168 << pretty lulzy
assbot: “Cody Wilson Wants to Destroy Your World” by /ajzaleski https://t.co/kUTv9jyJJA
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mega-snore
asciilifeform: it's a 'you. -- no, you. -- no, you. ... ... ...'
asciilifeform naively thought that wilson would have actually replied to the linked thing
danielpbarron: nobody every "actually replies" to stuff on social media
asciilifeform not sufficient zoologist to say if this or not
decimation: it seems that the telegraphers circa 1880 had better technology for sharing information
decimation: ok my centos6 box appears to lack 'realpath'
asciilifeform: neh just better people
mod6: ok, here's version v0.0.9.1 (seems to work with --lock--never added to lines 279 & 305 on v1): http://dpaste.com/2WRMSD7
assbot: dpaste: 2WRMSD7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1C8ZZzu )
mod6: also removed $HOME for $BUILD_DIR
mod6: s/--lock--never/--lock-never/
decimation: ok that kinda works, except it deletes all the sources except bitcoin
mod6: oh crap, lol, i didn't change the $BUILD_DIR back to "CHANGEME" derp
decimation: yeah I saw that heh
mod6: yeah, that's its default behavior. if you don't want it to delete the stuff, just change $FULL_CLEAN to "FALSE"
danielpbarron: http://danielpbarron.com/mod6.txt << output of auto.sh (with your modifications for 32)
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1C90ABg )
decimation: ok that works
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75900 @ 0.00036841 = 27.9623 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: ok here it is again. sorry: http://dpaste.com/2MB8HVF
assbot: dpaste: 2MB8HVF ... ( http://bit.ly/1C90ERu )
mod6 looks at danielpbarron's paste
decimation: sigh, no package realpath is available
mod6: yeah, that's required from the original pogo script.
mod6: there's a realpath bin you can install iirc
mod6: danielpbarron: try editing the script and getting rid of the -xu thing after /bin/sh
mod6: im glad we're all trying this now.
danielpbarron: bash: ./auto.sh: /bin/sh^M: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
mod6: one sec, i'll get you a new one. pastebin fucked us.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049562 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 02:33:50; asciilifeform: there's fucking winblows garbage in this thing
decimation: ok yes that last dpaste works for me
decimation: danielpbarron: windows adds an extra character to the end of each line
decimation: because it sucks
danielpbarron: why can't i see these extra characters; vi on openbsd would show them
mod6: http://dpaste.com/3656FHF.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18doWfE )
decimation: donno. emacs with whitespace mode shows them
mod6: yeah, pastebin sticks on CRLF's... like a derp
mod6: so ... i guess perhaps we try with dpaste and see.
danielpbarron: same problem
asciilifeform: dos2unix
mod6: i don't even own or use a M$ machine, so it has to be the paste sites. ☟︎
decimation: try > dox2unix auto.sh
decimation: mod6: on centos6 you can use /bin/readlink -f to substitute for 'realpath'
mod6: ah! ok good to know.
danielpbarron: :e ++ff=unix
danielpbarron: ^ that fixed it in vim
mod6: yeah, that works too. cool
danielpbarron: ok it's compiling
danielpbarron: i commented out that line you told me to
mod6: thanks, that's good. i'll have you do a `cd bitcoin/src ; readelf --dynamic bitcoind` when its complete.
mod6: i haven't compiled on a 32bit system yet so this is a great test.
decimation: the 'installing docs' step is really slow
decimation: it's downloading the boost tarball
decimation: sucks
mod6: yeah, it's like 60mb or something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63100 @ 0.00037148 = 23.4404 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14450 @ 0.00036428 = 5.2638 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00035449 = 14.924 BTC [-]
decimation: stupid redhat doesn't supply zlib-static by default
asciilifeform: you don't need zlib!!!
asciilifeform: in bitcoin.
asciilifeform: it isn't used anywhere.
decimation: it wants to link
asciilifeform: nix it in the bitcoind make
asciilifeform: as shown in my old instructions.
decimation: also -l dl
asciilifeform: it doesn't ever get used.
decimation: does it dynamically load code?
decimation: why does it need libdl
asciilifeform: damned if i know. kill it.
asciilifeform: (winblows version may have used that)
BingoBoingo: !up jitenm
decimation: nano redhat calls static pthread pthread_nonshared.a
mod6: hrm. ok, i'm gonna try building without -l dl and -l z
danielpbarron: mod6, http://danielpbarron.com/mod6.txt << got an error :<
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AgYdWV )
mod6: ok thanks danielpbarron.
mod6: i'll have to figure out what needs to be different in the 32 bit version.
decimation: ok I got it to compile on centos6 but I had to add the following to the end of the linking command line: -static-libgcc -Wl,-Bstatic -l pthread_nonshared -Wl,-Bdynamic -l m -l dl
decimation: apparently centos doesn't come with a static libdl or libm
danielpbarron: it might be the thing i ran into last time i tried this
asciilifeform: why dl again
asciilifeform: zap it & say what dies
decimation: it puked without it
danielpbarron: i had to change "make install" to "make install_sw"
asciilifeform: let's see the puke
mod6: i wanna say that i ran into that as well.
mod6: cant recall for sure though
mod6: i'll know in a minute.
decimation: /build/ourlibs/lib/libcrypto.a(dso_dlfcn.o): In function `dlfcn_globallookup': dso_dlfcn.c:(.text+0x31): undefined reference to `dlopen'
mod6: ah yeah that
asciilifeform: wawhat
asciilifeform: is that in openssl ?
decimation: why is ssl linking to dl
asciilifeform: !
danielpbarron: i just changed it and it gave same error, but maybe because I didn't start from scratch
mod6: danielpbarron: i think you have some other issues going on probably.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 70 @ 0.015 = 1.05 BTC [+]
decimation: asciilifeform: whatever you thought you knew about openssl is truer than you thnk
danielpbarron: oh wait, i want to be compiling this for arm don't I?
asciilifeform: which openssl this was again?
decimation: the label says 1.0.1g
asciilifeform: aahahaahaha.
mod6: danielpbarron: oh you're running this on ARM? this won't build on arm probably.
asciilifeform: https://www.openssl.org/docs/crypto/OPENSSL_config.html
assbot: OPENSSL_config, OPENSSL_no_config - simple OpenSSL configuration functions ... ( http://bit.ly/1AgYJEd )
asciilifeform: achtung shitgnomologists!
asciilifeform: even if you like static builds, openssl slips dynamic code loading up your arse when you're not looking. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, anyone else who gives a damn ^^^^
decimation: asciilifeform: does this really dynamically load crypto from disk at runtime?
asciilifeform: https://www.openssl.org/docs/crypto/engine.html << moar
assbot: engine - ENGINE cryptographic module support ... ( http://bit.ly/1AgYLvT )
decimation: who would ever think that is a good idea?
asciilifeform: decimation: ahaha, guess who
decimation: imma gonna load me critical pathways from a random .txt
asciilifeform: see fellas, when i said, 'hey hey ho ho openssl has got to go'
asciilifeform: i meant it
asciilifeform: and what's more, For Reasons
decimation: the paragraphs starts with "There are several reasons why calling the OpenSSL configuration routines is advisable."
decimation: and then fails to name a single reason
mod6: here's my output from no "-l dl" and no "-l z" in the makefile: http://dpaste.com/0YYYWEJ
assbot: dpaste: 0YYYWEJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1AgYXeM )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu wants a provably-correct replacement. can't disagree, but i personally probably won't get around to it until after the war.
asciilifeform: all you lot, i suggest, learn ada/spark.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> see fellas, when i said, 'hey hey ho ho openssl has got to go' << I'm with you .
decimation: mod6: yeah that's the same error
decimation: at any rate, you can probably cut n paste the parts of openssl you need
decimation: gonna take longer though
asciilifeform: decimation: nope
mod6: at some future point, we'll get the crypto libs built in directtly.
asciilifeform: try it
asciilifeform: it's a spittoon
asciilifeform: !s spittoon
assbot: 16 results for 'spittoon' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spittoon
decimation: asciilifeform: for reasons...
decimation: is there a 'configure' arg you can pass to get rid of the -ldl stupidity
decimation: yeah
decimation: no-dso
mod6: ok if i re-add back in "-l dl" into the makefile, then I get this:
asciilifeform: worth a try
mod6: http://dpaste.com/319C632
assbot: dpaste: 319C632 ... ( http://bit.ly/1AgZ7ml )
asciilifeform: see, i missed all of this because did not even suspect this level of shitgnomery
decimation: how did you get yours working asciilifeform?
mod6: which works, because those are just warnings. it does output a bitcoind in the bitcoin/src dir
decimation: mod6: try modding the openssl 'configure' stuff to use 'no-dso' ☟︎
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think i noticed/touched this knob
asciilifeform: this is why it helps to have >1 of us pay attention
mod6: here's a full shot: http://dpaste.com/06NAYCD
assbot: dpaste: 06NAYCD ... ( http://bit.ly/1AgZ8Xl )
asciilifeform: i suggest fixing by using a pre-heartbleed openssl
asciilifeform: if anyone has any reason why this is a bad idea, please suggest it ☟︎
mod6: pre-heart bleed? like 0.9.8o or whatever?
asciilifeform: pre-1.0.1 iirc
decimation: not that heartbleed really matters for our purposes
decimation: or have we not snipped the rpc stuff yet
asciilifeform: it doesn't, if the https-snipper patch was merged.
mod6: well, it was 0.9.8o that was giving us the issues with the tx in the 168`001 block
asciilifeform: rpc is still in
asciilifeform: but i personally ripped out https
asciilifeform: mod6: did anyone ever fully crack the conundrum ?
decimation: yeah if you are commanding bitcoind on an untrusted network you are fucktarded ☟︎
mod6: no, not yet. i've been focused on just getting a release out.
asciilifeform: could find boojum therein, one wholly worth the effort
mod6: yeah certainly.
danielpbarron: mod6> danielpbarron: oh you're running this on ARM? this won't build on arm probably. << ahh you called it the "modified pogo script" which gave me the wrong impression.. but I understand what you meant now
mod6: ahh, my bad. sorry I didn't clairify
mod6: decimation: so no-dso gets passed to the openssl build?
decimation: yeah you put it on the Config arg line
mod6: ok, sweet, i'll give that a try now.
asciilifeform still suspects that: 168001 was a stealthfork ☟︎
mod6: building...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64750 @ 0.00035793 = 23.176 BTC [+]
mod6: asciilifeform: it is certainly /strange/ that this problem occurs right after the last checkpoint in our version. ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00037275 = 8.3496 BTC [+]
decimation: ok I have to dynamically link -l m and now it works without -l dl
decimation: at least, it starts
mod6: alright gents, i added 'no-dso' to the openssl configure and removed "- dl" from the makefile, and it compiled just fine:
mod6: http://dpaste.com/1HYJCGS
assbot: dpaste: 1HYJCGS ... ( http://bit.ly/1AgZMnQ )
decimation: me too
mod6: you had to add in
decimation: except for the dynamic -l m and pthread_nonshared
mod6: "-l m" ?
decimation: yep
decimation: it must be a redhat-ism
mod6: ah. ok.
mod6: well, that's good to know i guess in case of RH
mod6: so i'll re-submit that makefile patch and what will be v0.0.5 of the mod'd pogo script (with 'no-dso')
asciilifeform: neato
asciilifeform: builds, but does it run ?
decimation: ok you have to install glib-static on redhat
mod6: that bitcoind does run and start pulling blocks btw too
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: so this, then, is the new state of the art.
decimation: yes, 'strip out all the static libs 'cause it saves space'
mod6: http://dpaste.com/0RFHH3E
assbot: dpaste: 0RFHH3E ... ( http://bit.ly/1AgZZHA )
mod6: i'll do some more sync testing once I get the changes we found tonight resubmitted to the mailing list.
mod6: this was highly productive tonight; I thank you all who helped!
decimation: no problem, good night
mod6: still have a moutain of work ahead, but we're on a good track.
decimation: ok so the only remaining redhatism is to strip out the 'realpath' thing and add '-l pthread_nonshared to the makefile
mod6: you too. many thanks.
mod6: decimation: i think, in interest of time.. perhaps (with your help/testing) we'll post a patch for the makefile & the auto.sh post release.
mod6: or at least once we have a "freeze"
mod6: then going forward, we'll add in more conditions into these things to account for various platforms/configurations
danielpbarron: and removed "- dl" from the makefile << where is this?
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/winner-of-27k-bitcoins-purchased-at-usms-auction-revealed/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93794 @ 0.00035276 = 33.0868 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: danielpbarron: it would have been like line 34
mod6: i think 33 was "-l w"
mod6: im getting laaaaaged
mats: http://www.gamedev.net/topic/666419-what-are-your-opinions-on-dx12vulkanmantle/#entry5215019
assbot: What are your opinions on DX12/Vulkan/Mantle? - Graphics Programming and Theory - GameDev.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ah0IIT )
asciilifeform: qntra ddos ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: somebody has cache ?
asciilifeform: also ddoslurkbot is back.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91553 @ 0.00035063 = 32.1012 BTC [-]
Adlai: since lds has refused to comment, wouldn't a better title be "Winner Of 27K Bitcoins Allegedly Purchased At USMS Auction Alleged" ? ☟︎
Adlai: asciilifeform: works for me just fine
asciilifeform: loads now aha
cazalla: it's working fine here
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 20(Y):80(N) by weight. Total bet: 42.55120426 BTC. Current weight: 96,640.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49600 @ 0.0003631 = 18.0098 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up wangxinxi
wangxinxi: Thanks BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: <mod6> decimation: anyway, it totally works fine for me on my aws machine. << hehehe
mircea_popescu: !up mollison
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049677 << wut ?! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 03:16:38; danielpbarron: fwiw, I got 50 USD worth of link clicks pointing at this -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042514
mircea_popescu: mod6: im glad we're all trying this now. << kinda the advantage of doing stuff here.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049802 << i fail to be surprised. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 04:31:10; asciilifeform: even if you like static builds, openssl slips dynamic code loading up your arse when you're not looking.
mircea_popescu: also gotta upgrade to latest version
mircea_popescu: etc.
mircea_popescu: decimation: the paragraphs starts with "There are several reasons why calling the OpenSSL configuration routines is advisable." and then fails to name a single reason << the actual reasons are not the point, the statement that "there are reasons" is the point. fashion, no substance. you wanna be with the in crowd, don't you ? be hip, upgrade. there are reasons.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049846 << iirc heartbled was replacement orifice. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 04:39:03; asciilifeform: if anyone has any reason why this is a bad idea, please suggest it
mircea_popescu: there's no clean openssl post ~2002.
mircea_popescu: i don't see anyone using 1999 version.
mircea_popescu: 0.9.4 and such bs.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049910 << no ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 05:15:44; asciilifeform: qntra ddos ?
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042552 << /methinks the civilians doth play too much vidya ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 04:19:56; decimation: asciilifeform: it's not even clear that having full auto ar-15's would be much of an advantage at all
mircea_popescu: trilema's been getting a shitton of traffic past week, maybe you got it on a blink.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049914 << just about lol. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 05:19:15; Adlai: since lds has refused to comment, wouldn't a better title be "Winner Of 27K Bitcoins Allegedly Purchased At USMS Auction Alleged" ?
Adlai: there are so few situations where it's remotely helpful to have an assault rifle in full auto, afaict the risk of accidentally using full auto in any other situation make it "wasach" but nothing more
Adlai: "wasach" = army slang, from arabic 'weight' - ie, extra weight which doesn't help you, but you carry it around to look tough
mircea_popescu: those situations being providing cover
mircea_popescu: they're not that few, if you're actually fighting. as opposed to what regular armies regularly do.
fluffypony: http://kukuruku.co/hub/diy/usb-killer
assbot: USB Killer ... ( http://bit.ly/1C7RXFK )
fluffypony: want
Adlai: a bit of training and you can give MUCH better cover with *aimed* selective fire
mircea_popescu: depends if it's five of you or five hundred of you.
mircea_popescu: with batallion size deployments rolling auto is much more effectual than "selective" whatever, because people are weird. sorta like how women living together synch periods, soldiers end up all looking in the same spot.
Adlai: you can drain a 30 round magazine in ~10 seconds and get most of your shots on target, and all of them in the right direction; or drain it in ~3 seconds, overheat your barrel, and kill half your friends
Adlai: there are situations where "spraying" is exactly what you want, but there are better tools for that than 'assault rifle'
mircea_popescu agrees that in practical terms, the useful full auto is a shrinking space.
Adlai: on the contrary, there's a lot less picking off enemies hundreds of meters away, and a lot more 'clearing rooms'
mircea_popescu: it comes to us from a time of emplaced machine guns and stuff
mircea_popescu: nono, i meant "space".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51279 @ 0.00037237 = 19.0948 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai: in which sense?
mircea_popescu: lemme rephrase.
mircea_popescu agrees that in practical terms, the useful full auto is rarer and rarer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45071 @ 0.00037452 = 16.88 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai: 'situations where full auto is what you want', or 'firearm which usefully implements full auto' ?
mircea_popescu: first.
fluffypony: first
mircea_popescu: well honestly the second too, but unrelatedly.
Adlai maintains that both of these are INcreasing, but neither has anything to do with the AR15 family
mircea_popescu: hahaha what.
fluffypony: I don't know enough about firearm development to speak to the second
mircea_popescu: "but brother, why do you try to rescue cost savings ? you know it;s in its nature to sting you". "yes. but it is in my nature to be stingy."
Adlai: full auto is very useful in urban "kill everything" warfare. no country likes admitting that's what they're training for, but they train for this too.
mircea_popescu: nonsense. what are you going to do, spray and pray ?
Adlai: that's what it's called
mircea_popescu: the only thing that's useful in urban warfare is hiding.
mircea_popescu: everything else is a liability.
Adlai: and artillery/air support, with a few guidance chips
mircea_popescu: hey, half the us casualties, gotta provide them somehow.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47650 @ 0.00037564 = 17.8992 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6: im glad we're all trying this now. << kinda the advantage of doing stuff here. << true enough :]
mod6: night #b-a!
mircea_popescu: !up tsoulus
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00036986 = 3.4767 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 15.4 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 57.95120426 BTC. Current weight: 96,565.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58400 @ 0.00037586 = 21.9502 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38800 @ 0.00037791 = 14.6629 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19572 @ 0.00036986 = 7.2389 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27759 @ 0.00036986 = 10.2669 BTC [-]
cazalla: i guess i was wrong about danielpbarron being mircea_popescu because apparently asciilifeform is mircea_popescu http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2yrkh4/winner_of_27k_bitcoins_purchased_at_usms_auction/cpccmq0
assbot: usrn comments on Winner Of 27K Bitcoins Purchased At USMS Auction Revealed ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvazCt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31487 @ 0.00037914 = 11.938 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131113 @ 0.00038367 = 50.3041 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00036986 = 11.0403 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57850 @ 0.0003733 = 21.5954 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7812 @ 0.0003733 = 2.9162 BTC [+]
fluffypony: cazalla: the comment about the incorrect use of "allegedly" is right, though
fluffypony: as a reporter you don't want to claim something as fact when it isn't, but the USMS holding 3 auctions is accepted enough that it doesn't have to be "alleged" :-P ☟︎
Adlai: the allegation here is that the auctions were theater
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87932 @ 0.00038774 = 34.0948 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: doesn't matter, the term is still used incorrectly
fluffypony: "apparently" would be a more appropriate term
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.0006 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 16(Y):84(N) by weight. Total bet: 58.95180426 BTC. Current weight: 96,470.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7678 @ 0.00039483 = 3.0315 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24905 @ 0.00039483 = 9.8332 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048149 << what is the lisp concept and how is hickey crapping on it? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2015 01:56:57; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still fucking hate that piece. the sheer mendacity of rich hickey in saying 'simplicity matters' while crapping all over lisp concept
Adlai: ben_vulpes: for one, read macros
Adlai: eg http://www.loper-os.org/?p=103
assbot: Loper OS » Nock Nock (Part 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1D97SVF )
ben_vulpes: i've yet to get to read macros in my studies
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53200 @ 0.00039787 = 21.1667 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: re: 'mit' - feeder college for northrup grumman and loyal derpy armsmiths
Adlai: please don't go full cultard
Adlai: that's kinda like saying #b-a is feeder college for altcoin creators
fluffypony: lol
ben_vulpes: wink
ben_vulpes: nudge
ben_vulpes: elbow in ribs
ben_vulpes: sour grapes re youth wasted on the young
ben_vulpes: some mixture of all the above
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049633 << oh just extreme naivte in thinking things like the bail on exit flag would be set the same way on other platforms ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 02:58:53; mod6: ben addded those, not exactly sure what they do. lol.
ben_vulpes: bail on *error*
ben_vulpes: wtshit linux
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1049268 << cardano-like thinger over serial someday, one hopes ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-03-2015 21:30:54; trinque: I'm thinking programmable light switch with ethernet port
davout: http://i.imgur.com/vCifNrr.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wZaVhi )
trinque: ben_vulpes: sleep? never heard of it
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049682 << hah i ran into this as well, thought it was due to mounting the working dir in from the host machine ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 03:17:11; decimation: you need to add --lock-never to make it work, because I am using a shitty vm-mounted filesystem that doesn't support hardlinks
ben_vulpes: trinque: you know it
ben_vulpes: thick ass logs today
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049735 << pastebin *specifically*. i've seen this again and again, eventually diddled something in my environment to keep it from happening. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 03:39:21; mod6: i don't even own or use a M$ machine, so it has to be the paste sites.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049802 << this is amazing ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 04:31:10; asciilifeform: even if you like static builds, openssl slips dynamic code loading up your arse when you're not looking.
ben_vulpes: jesus shit
ben_vulpes: so basically pwn the vm layer, pwn txn validation possibly?
ben_vulpes: knowing c it's probably just like hell breaks loose in the operating system
ben_vulpes: that filesystem code does whatever it wants to your balance, coins etc. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: surely that's a paranoid jump too far.
ben_vulpes knows nothing about external libs and safety in c
Adlai: if you're going that far, a better approach would be inserting something that reports wallet.dat+password to a remote server, which waits until there's something worth stealing. one day, "all the bitcoins are gone"
ben_vulpes: bleeee
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63805 @ 0.00040007 = 25.5265 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049856 << another reason why 0.5.3 needs getblock functionality. i can't trust anything out there, and the best way to handle bitcoins safely is to be able to canvass a mess of bitcoinds and make some decisions about how to squirt txns into the network ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 04:41:19; decimation: yeah if you are commanding bitcoind on an untrusted network you are fucktarded
ben_vulpes: i kind of have to assume that any hardware i touch these days is wholly compromised
Adlai: fwiw, sending a relay node your transactions is no guarantee that a miner will see them
ben_vulpes: myeah
ben_vulpes: i'd actually like to see relay rules opened up
ben_vulpes: but i suppose that's what gossipd's for
Adlai: bitcoin-over-gossipd is rather useless without miners in the wot
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049865 << see the impossible coincidence of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049868 . ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 04:44:18; *: asciilifeform still suspects that: 168001 was a stealthfork
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 04:45:02; mod6: asciilifeform: it is certainly /strange/ that this problem occurs right after the last checkpoint in our version.
ben_vulpes: Adlai: more along the lines of piggybacking messages on the btc txn relay network.
ben_vulpes: anyways, sleep doth conquer
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: "what is the lisp concept and how is hickey crapping on it?" << the lisp concept is: "a crystalline pyramid of comprehensible mutually-interlocking concepts", see Thumbs Down for Clojure http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42 The parens (i.e., syntactical correspondence with ast) so far as I can tell are inescapable, but incidental. They are simply the most obvious product of the philosophy "sophistication blosso
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1AojvBc )
gabriel_laddel: ms from comprehensibility".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51977 @ 0.00039727 = 20.6489 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56109 @ 0.00039239 = 22.0166 BTC [-] {2}
gabriel_laddel: !gettrust trinque
assbot: Trust relationship from user gabriel_laddel to user trinque: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/gabriel_laddel/trinque | http://w.b-a.link/user/trinque
gabriel_laddel: trinque: regarding "linux sucks but could be better" see the thread here http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1036490 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 00:35:29; gabriel_laddel: Eh, perhaps I'm strange, but these things don't tickle me in the right places. Mountains of coke? Fun, surely, but it gets boring after a while...
gabriel_laddel: trinque: also, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-01-2015#992409 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2015 03:00:06; gabriel_laddel: I've actually done very little development for this dirtro. Most of my time has been spent finding perfect little individual peices and assembling them. Out of the box it has:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108800 @ 0.00039012 = 42.4451 BTC [-] {4}
gabriel_laddel: trinque: it seems to me that arguing with e.g., ascii as to if you can make linux less terrible is by and large useless sans the loot (useful technical tidbits) he drops occasionally. If you'd like to work on such a thing I can set you on the only sane path that I'm aware of, with justification as to why you'd do this instead of else.
Adlai: gabriel_laddel: what's the 'status' of your project?
gabriel_laddel: Adlai: currently pestering bezzle lords to pay my bills so I can finish it off ☟︎
gabriel_laddel: right now I'm writing up a thing so that anyone can finish it off, in case I run into alphabet soup or w/e
Adlai: so not quite as bad as http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-03-2015#1047620 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2015 13:50:02; asciilifeform: adlai: shelved
gabriel_laddel: Adlai: Ascii wants to fix everything all at once. I understand his position but don't see how to accomplish it.
Adlai: no, he wants to fix everything from the bottom up
gabriel_laddel: Adlai: that is correct, my mistake.
Adlai: this is a workable approach, it just has higher capex demands (as opposed to 'all at once')
gabriel_laddel: Adlai: In any case, Emacs works just fine and is sufficently lispy without dropping the Von N. arch.
gabriel_laddel: and there is money to be made by exploiting the comprehensibility advantage
Adlai: sure, one of my big struggles lately is pushing myself to read slime source in the hope of contributing patches, rather than bemoaning that the bugs lurk in elisp and leaving it at that ☟︎
Adlai is rapidly becoming the archetypical smug[common]lispweenie
gabriel_laddel: :)
gabriel_laddel: I fucking hate elisp, and happily cut much of it out of Masamune.
gabriel_laddel: I currently edit english text in Climacs sometimes
Adlai: ah, it supports clim!
gabriel_laddel: Perhaps I'll have the chance to clean up the CL interface at some point.
gabriel_laddel: ah, it supports clim! << yep
gabriel_laddel: !s screenshots
assbot: 35 results for 'screenshots' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=screenshots
gabriel_laddel: Adlai: some clim stuff
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-01-2015#992348 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2015 02:28:29; gabriel_laddel: http://i.imgur.com/YDS7DZR.png http://i.imgur.com/er5HT6O.png http://i.imgur.com/nsvxhzs.png http://i.imgur.com/Ius6a3h.png
gabriel_laddel: And I'm off for nicotine and a walk. Toodles.
Adlai: o/ ☟︎
Adlai: "Killed buffer" << even the lispiest abstractions leak
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44650 @ 0.00040205 = 17.9515 BTC [+]
Adlai desperately hopes that '21' are trying to commoditize asic mining, rather than just another mining ktulu ☟︎☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77300 @ 0.00037616 = 29.0772 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35122 @ 0.00039583 = 13.9023 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48278 @ 0.0004024 = 19.4271 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: height=271804 vs height=206911
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79900 @ 0.00037102 = 29.6445 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6726 @ 0.00037102 = 2.4955 BTC [-]
Adlai: !s height=
assbot: 199 results for 'height=' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=height%3D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @ 0.00037762 = 26.1691 BTC [+]
davout: very skill, much wow
davout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKtfjB3F_c0
assbot: Trust me I'm Mechanic Engineer. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1L1AiFs )
Adlai: trust me, i speak asslish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29620 @ 0.00039614 = 11.7337 BTC [+]
jurov: these openssl shenanigans...anyone tried libressl if it, say, needs -ldl? ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30550 @ 0.00039614 = 12.1021 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 99 @ 0.014 = 1.386 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 242409 @ 0.00036706 = 88.9786 BTC [-] {7}
danielpbarron: re: "50 USD worth of link clicks" : this is where I got the number from, and it's up to 100 USD worth now -> https://i.imgur.com/4Ylwt2s.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xgx70R )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23300 @ 0.00039904 = 9.2976 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: on a related note, I learned how to get my print screen key working on gentoo for this
Adlai: the hardcore version of "created an account just to upvote this"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45000 @ 0.00040102 = 18.0459 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i'm rather surprised it took them so long to hook up the goldpricedumpatron to btc << You once said, "USG is still trying to find way to put lead into bitcoin bars."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00039334 = 5.9001 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34000 @ 0.00039442 = 13.4103 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 302 @ 0.0041 = 1.2382 BTC [-] {3}
fluffypony: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2yrkh4/winner_of_27k_bitcoins_purchased_at_usms_auction/cpclco3?context=5
assbot: fluffyponyza comments on Winner Of 27K Bitcoins Purchased At USMS Auction Revealed ... ( http://bit.ly/1C92ksE )
fluffypony: apparently I'm financially involved with Qntra
fluffypony: who knew
PeterL: do you own any shares?
fluffypony: nope
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63750 @ 0.00038078 = 24.2747 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: "how dare they get paid to write when I have to pay reddit!!1" ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4797 @ 0.00038078 = 1.8266 BTC [-]
PeterL: why would anybody pay to use reddit?
danielpbarron: to get "Achievement Unlocked: I'm redditarded" on their profile
jurov: for reddit bezzlegold
danielpbarron: (unless you balance it out with 9x non-promotional material) << there is a ratio specified in the rules?? reddit is like USG training camp
PeterL: so you need to do 9 unpaid spams for each spam you are paid to produce? More spam is better spam!
fluffypony: danielpbarron: yes, there's a 10% rule
fluffypony: http://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion
assbot: selfpromotion - reddit.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9485c )
fluffypony: http://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq#wiki_what_constitutes_spam.3F
assbot: faq - reddit.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1C94jgF )
fluffypony: "If over 10% of your submissions and conversation are your own site/content/affiliate links, you're almost certainly a spammer."
fluffypony: and not spamming is one of the 5 rules Reddit actually has: http://www.reddit.com/rules/
assbot: reddit.com: rules of reddit ... ( http://bit.ly/1C94tVs )
fluffypony: the rest are just recommendations (eg. reddiquette) or sub-reddit specific rules that anyone can make
danielpbarron: i remember many years ago not liking reddit based soley on this one really annoying kid being way too enthusiastic about it. He went on and on about how some anime trailor was "totally a troll" as he hammered away on his keyboard.
chetty: all these years and still people feed the trolls
PeterL: http://xkcd.com/1385/ << reddit fits too
assbot: xkcd: Throwing Rocks ... ( http://bit.ly/1C94YPk )
danielpbarron: "Don't post personal information." << WTF!? it is required to be anonymous on reddit or what?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4135 @ 0.00038078 = 1.5745 BTC [-]
PeterL: anonominity helps the derps feel better about not mattering, since nobody else can matter either ☟︎
mats: rip pratchett
PeterL: I've been reading through his books lately, quite funny stuff in there
PeterL: A while ago I got the entire discworld series as ebooks for like 0.005 btc, back when a btc was about 10 bucks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.0004024 = 15.0296 BTC [+]
fluffypony: danielpbarron: they mean don't post someone else's personal information
fluffypony: unless it is commonly public, eg. domain whois details
fluffypony: the problem is that Reddit tends to breed "investigators" that post about what they've "discovered", when meantime it's pure conjecture
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89450 @ 0.00040268 = 36.0197 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40515 @ 0.00039552 = 16.0245 BTC [-]
PeterL: you know what is annoying? online articles which are split into pages. It is a webpage, I should be able to keep scrolling down, instead of increasing the "click numbers" for advertising!
PeterL: (another reason why qntra is better than so many other news sites)
danielpbarron shelves his "10 weird tricks to increase your MPEx portfolio" article..
PeterL: would be fine as an article if the whole things is all on one page! grumble grumble
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49709 @ 0.00038135 = 18.9565 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47900 @ 0.00037497 = 17.9611 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7550 @ 0.00038135 = 2.8792 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00037497 = 3.5622 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25110 @ 0.00034888 = 8.7604 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: I'm totally doing an onion spoof with it
mats: http://chargen.matasano.com/chargen/2015/1/6/bypassing-openssl-certificate-pinning-in-ios-apps.html
assbot: Bypassing OpenSSL Certificate Pinning in iOS Apps - Blog - Matasano Security ... ( http://bit.ly/18DVOhr )
asciilifeform: mats: old nyooz
mats: :(
mats: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/12/nsas_on_drugs_infosec_bods_unveil_space_grade_malware kek
assbot: Kaspersky claims to have found NSA's 'space station malware' • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/18DWdAB )
mats: (nothing new here, just amusing)
asciilifeform: more re: disk fw diddler ?
mod6: jurov: can you see if a message got snarffed from the btc-dev list, i sent one in with the subject "Static Makefile Patch v0.0.2"
mod6: had 2 attachments, a .patch file and a .sig file
mats: related to framework that enables diddling
mod6: all sigs verify.
mats: http://www.scribd.com/doc/258494173/FCC-15-24A1
assbot: FCC-15-24A1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bw7caN )
asciilifeform: mats: i for one am still puzzled by kaspersky's use of the idiot euphemism 'equationgroup'
mats: its all about the clicks, man
asciilifeform: mats: when the actual authorship is plain as daylight
mats: math, computers, fingerless gloves, all the tropes are there
asciilifeform: mats or anybody else: if you have the disk diddler sample, post it
asciilifeform: crapware artists around the world will appreciate the ready-baked fw diddlamatic library, as will winblows users!
asciilifeform: https://securelist.com/files/2015/02/Equation_group_questions_and_answers.pdf << pp. 32,33 have hashes. ☟︎
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18DYCes )
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/argentina-for-business/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Why would a property in a peso land be worth dollars ? Oh, because the peso is shit, they readily explain to you. Well, if the peso is shit, why do you imagine your real estate is worth anything at all ? ' << because if it were 10 usd, a beggar from calcutta would buy it and live in it; if it were 10K usd, i'd buy it; if it were 100K usd, american speculator corps. would buy it. so it has to be 150K. ☟︎
asciilifeform: m4rk3tz
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 399 @ 0.01318937 = 5.2626 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93650 @ 0.00035843 = 33.567 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'unlike anywhere in the civilised world, the Argentines rent unfurnished.' << wai wat?! most rental pads where i live are unfurnished - just the way i like it (wtf to do with the incl. furniture if you have your own?) ☟︎
danielpbarron: !up shesek
danielpbarron: !up stunna
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Well... truth is a lot more complicated than that - in many places, in most places really national sovereignity is implemented as "being incredibly stupid in our own special way", which is of course neither "their own" in any sense nor to any degree special. This has to be broken down...' << aha colonization.
Adlai wonders how http://trilema.com/2015/argentina-for-business/#footnote_1_60514 fits with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzQuuoKXVq0 ☟︎
assbot: Argentina for business pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18E2Cf6 )
assbot: EUROPA & ITALIA - Europe vs Italy - Bruno Bozzetto (Official) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18E2Cvq )
asciilifeform: thing is, colonizing power is not necessarily a civilizing one. how'd ya like ru colonial period in ro? ☟︎
Adlai: on that scale, israel = 'italia baribua' (squared)
mod6: jurov: i don't think the mailing list is working. it has snarffed 2 different messages from me so far today. i know the sigs are good on each & attachments.
mod6: ;;later tell jurov btc-dev mailing list is snarffing messages again
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81355 @ 0.00034863 = 28.3628 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell fluffypony You could have also pointed out that there's 496 total posts on qntra compared to the small portion of those on Reddit
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: So, phun phakt time
asciilifeform: on 2/18 i ordered some boards made at 'macrofab'
asciilifeform: they were mailed out, according to the latter, on 3/10
asciilifeform: today u.s. post office tracker reads 'delivered, 10:35am', 'Waiver of signature was exercised at time of delivery.'
asciilifeform: funny thing is, i have cameras. and they show that no one crossed perimeter until postman around 1400 hrs (with only junk mail.)
asciilifeform: and i did not authorize the 'no signature' crap.
BingoBoingo: Sounds very phun
danielpbarron: sounds like the kind of story you tell kids around a camp fire while pointing a flashlight at your face
asciilifeform: no idea if anyone gives a fuck, but it is quite reminiscent of mircea_popescu's experience when i happened to mail him something last year.
trinque: asciilifeform: well established that mail gets rerouted to diddle-factories
asciilifeform: i think this one went to /dev/null ☟︎
danielpbarron: helps to get to know your local postman
cazalla: they don't even knock on your door here, they just stick a "we missed you" notice in the letter box and force you to pick it up from the local post office yourself.. god forbid the postman knock at your door and wait for you to answer
chetty: hmm isnt there a coffee shop around there you can check for it?
asciilifeform: cazalla: this wasn't a 'missed delivery' thing
asciilifeform: those get a door sticker, yes, and appropriate text in the www tracking gizmo
Adlai had to pick up his reserve summons - A PIECE OF PAPER - at the post office
Adlai: package slip in the mailbox was identical to the kind indicating eg miner
trinque: I highly suspect they tag people to fuck with
trinque: not that I'm interesting enough to have had this happen
Adlai got asked to turn on and log in his laptop at CDG while just transferring through, had to explain stumpwm
trinque: Adlai: heh! terrorist
trinque: looks like hacker stuff to me
asciilifeform: Adlai: i still don't get this notion where t3rr0s1stz -somehow must- replace -all- of the cells in the battery with plastique, instead of only half ☟︎
Adlai: it's the ponytail. flew through in september with a hobo mop, no comment. look like a dealer or hacker? step aside please.
asciilifeform: funny thing is, i won't be surprised if it does show up some time tomorrow
asciilifeform: seen this before.
asciilifeform: postman hits 'delivered' on his turdpad while it's still in the truck
asciilifeform: (why? no one knows)
trinque: non-govt mail tends to be much better
asciilifeform: trinque: vendor did not offer options for shipment
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why do you mean no one knows lol. they gotta make the targets.
asciilifeform: ^ probably this
mircea_popescu: cazalla "usrn -1 points 10 hours ago Doesn't make any difference." << lawl.
mircea_popescu: "mp is bad mmkay!11" "you know the only reason you eat is his tolerant magnanimity" "doesn't make a diference".
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1049998 << accepted by reddit does not make it accepted. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 08:58:59; fluffypony: as a reporter you don't want to claim something as fact when it isn't, but the USMS holding 3 auctions is accepted enough that it doesn't have to be "alleged" :-P
mircea_popescu: that the usms claims to have held auctions is undisputed. that it in fact did not is also plainly factual.
mircea_popescu: and this is why "apparently" is not more appropriate. the locus of power is b-a, not usg. when we say something here, fact or no fact, it becomes "apparently", like it or not like it.
mircea_popescu: when usg says something, it becomes allegedly, and until and unless it receives our imprimatur, it STAYS allegedly.
mircea_popescu: and thus, bush allegedly won the 2nd electoral term.
asciilifeform: is 'auction' where shill guaranteed to win still called 'auction' ?
asciilifeform: or something else.
mircea_popescu: well... allegedly.
mircea_popescu: it's a tardstalk auction, basically.
mircea_popescu: who was that guy kakobrekla really liked, cognitive-something. kept making these and then posing into the forum's ethics board.
mircea_popescu: !up Aquent
asciilifeform: to the extent something takes place on a known muppet theatre stage, it is not even all that important to go into the supposed 'motivations' of the muppets, when you can plainly see the arms growing out of their arses
Aquent: did you buy 27k btc from the marshals mircea_popescu ?
chetty: lmao
mircea_popescu: i didn't make a statement on that.
Aquent: yey or ney
asciilifeform: Aquent: around here we buy only direct from hitler
mircea_popescu: ahaha that ben_vulpes / adlai cultard thing. i'm bashing it.
Aquent: ppl are saying you did
Aquent: so you want to deny it?
mircea_popescu: we should prolly hold a call vote see how mit is regarded, i thought it unanimously despised.
mircea_popescu: Aquent i don't want to anything dood. you want to, an' so far it's not going too well.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm enthusiastically in favour of either bulldozing or turning into leprosorium
asciilifeform: (mit)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ironically, 50 years ago it was tip top
asciilifeform: as recently as 30!
mircea_popescu: arguably yes.
chetty: whoa, what 'ppl are saying?'
Aquent: well how did you come up with this name
Aquent: this guy - what was the name again
mircea_popescu: with what name ?
Aquent: like no evidence no connection just some name
mircea_popescu: you talking bout cazalla's article on qntra ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 220450 @ 0.00033231 = 73.2577 BTC [-] {4}
Aquent: yes
mircea_popescu: well you better ask him then neh ?
Aquent: Larry Dean Silvey
trinque: the article itself gives its evidence
Aquent: does it?
cazalla: Aquent, not everything that pointed to him is included in the article
Aquent: not anything that points to him is included
trinque: the bit about the tweeted address is there
mircea_popescu: the beauty of the internets, srsly. who the hell ever called up w r hearst to inquire about whatever points of minutia in some goddard article.
mircea_popescu: we've clearly progressed.
Aquent: lol
Aquent: beauty of journalism innit
Aquent: to do that research for me to easily read it
Aquent: not do my own
mircea_popescu: has little to do with journalism an' everything to do with... wel, irc, basically, and the very republican roots of la serenissima.
Aquent: mircea_popescu if you did win the auction how much would have you paid per btc?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050043 << this is technically possible and not a negligible avenue of attack. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 10:20:24; ben_vulpes: that filesystem code does whatever it wants to your balance, coins etc.
mircea_popescu: i can readily see in the future "special" hard drives being made.
mircea_popescu: Aquent i didn't make a statement about that, either.
asciilifeform: re: post office idiocy: i fully expect that before the era of usg is over, 'serenissima' cargo will routinely travel with real-time ir camera (and 'glonass') feed from inside the box.
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://i.imgur.com/SZFFlf1.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BwJFXl )
Aquent: I didn't say you did
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'special' hard drives made presently.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you open it by the stove.
asciilifeform: neh i meant - belonging to sender or receiver
mircea_popescu: oh
asciilifeform: a precious and carefully-sewn item
asciilifeform: sent back, forth...
asciilifeform: between phriends
asciilifeform: if real-time satellite is costly and unreliable, a 'poor man's' version will contain two rsa keys. one will sign every frame and globe coordinate tuple -until package is opened-, the other - after
asciilifeform: with the usual caveats re: sensor cat-mouse games
mircea_popescu: i don't imagine that anyone cares this much.
asciilifeform: depends what is moving, no?
mircea_popescu: cheaper to use sluts curriers only.
mircea_popescu: currently it's about half girls anyway
asciilifeform: and who said inapplicable for living courier
asciilifeform: iirc diplomatic mail already works quite like this.
asciilifeform: with addition of manual pull ring for courier in case he is being poked
asciilifeform: (thermite)
mircea_popescu: something like that.
asciilifeform: an absolutely-perfect $maxint gadget is not necessary to utterly deter idiots from fucking with mail
asciilifeform: because their faced will be on 'youtube' etc. in real time.
asciilifeform: *faces
asciilifeform: and coordinates
mircea_popescu: mail is not opened by hand
asciilifeform: depends which set of idiots
asciilifeform: when -from- 'respectable' folks like cisco - yes, by hand, stable of monkeys (its exact location was in #b-a not long ago)
mircea_popescu: also true.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050076 << haha ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 11:59:26; gabriel_laddel: Adlai: currently pestering bezzle lords to pay my bills so I can finish it off
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050086 << well, fwiw it's a worthy thing to do. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 12:03:56; Adlai: sure, one of my big struggles lately is pushing myself to read slime source in the hope of contributing patches, rather than bemoaning that the bugs lurk in elisp and leaving it at that
asciilifeform: Adlai: it is quite a feat to bring oneself to program in elisp after working with proper common lisp. don't know how you manage it. (iron will?)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050103 << don't be ridiculous. for one thing, commodizing asic mining is a larger task than commodizing cpu arch. for the other, they're a fucking sv corp, they're not going to DO ANYTHING. just sit around and talk about shit. preferably at "conferences", or else "liveblog" it. ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 12:22:05; *: Adlai desperately hopes that '21' are trying to commoditize asic mining, rather than just another mining ktulu
asciilifeform: 'commoditize' is a very, very odd thing for anyone to wish to do to mining.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050118 << tyhe problem is that baked in bitcoin dependencies can not be replaced. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 13:17:45; jurov: these openssl shenanigans...anyone tried libressl if it, say, needs -ldl?
mircea_popescu: EVEN IF "it works now"
Adlai has babbled about such concepts to vc-types while orbiting those circles (at a safe distance), there's always the faint glimmer of hope that a good meme takes root
mircea_popescu: the only solution is to pull in the relevant code and encase it in acrylate. ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132400 @ 0.0003337 = 44.1819 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: which is roughly what the power rangers figured out eventually too.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: read openssl. it's a spittoon.
mircea_popescu: Adlai that faint glimmer reflects principally your tender years.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and, no, they didn't. they rewrote haphazardly and went 'so it works, stfu'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no practical considerations will interfere with my strategic management!!1
asciilifeform: l0lziez
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't mean in the past. i mean for the future. they're trying to make a "special file".
mircea_popescu: put all the braindamage in there.
Adlai: 1st ¶ http://www.winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotations/quotes-falsely-attributed
assbot: Quotes Falsely Attributed ... ( http://bit.ly/1BwPdRr )
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron 66 shitty twitter clicks are worth 50 bucks in the lalaland whjere twitter is a public company and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, they're a coupla hundred bucks to the million.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony that's some kickass research on reddit submissions ? do you like do this professionally or something ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050139 << lawl. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 15:28:00; danielpbarron: "how dare they get paid to write when I have to pay reddit!!1"
asciilifeform: update on 'macrofab' - vendor apologized, insists that they did not authorize 'no signature', offers to do another run (schedule unspecified) gratis
asciilifeform: if thing doesn't show up by end of wk
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050161 << the chemist got it. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 15:39:19; PeterL: anonominity helps the derps feel better about not mattering, since nobody else can matter either
mircea_popescu: animality, anonimity, what the hell's the difference.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so vendor knows they never shipped.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote in a 'wtf'
asciilifeform: shortly before sharing the tale
mircea_popescu: seems this process would have sunk them by now, but hey.
asciilifeform: 'macrofab' opened ~1 mo. ago
asciilifeform: and is, afaik, presently the only outfit of its kind
asciilifeform: (who knows how long will last, or even if works. i was going to learn something by opening that crate...)
mircea_popescu: aite, i take it back, we see.
asciilifeform: it'd still have a 'too good to be true' flavour were it at 10x the quoted price - so i'm not expecting much
Adlai: even if you think both of those are tentacles of the same octopusg, they do have independent nervous systems
asciilifeform: Adlai: the tentacles, where i stand, flail wildly and without purpose
asciilifeform: Adlai: i know this because of being still alive
Adlai: sure
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050204 << just to blow your mind : you are speaking to a man who has bought that sort of thing (apartment, 3 rooms, 75 sqm) for 350 dollars. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 17:10:37; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Why would a property in a peso land be worth dollars ? Oh, because the peso is shit, they readily explain to you. Well, if the peso is shit, why do you imagine your real estate is worth anything at all ? ' << because if it were 10 usd, a beggar from calcutta would buy it and live in it; if it were 10K usd, i'd buy it; if it were 100K usd, american speculator corps. would buy it. so it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: betcha you had to spend more than 350 to turn into the sort of fella who might open the door behind which it costs 350.
asciilifeform: 'linux is free if...' etc
Adlai: both hands thinking they're the right one is functionally equivalent to 'all thumbs'
mircea_popescu: Adlai you know, you should probably write an exhaustive discussion of the cult an' publish it on yoru blog, rather than bottle it up and end up pankkake'd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope.
Adlai has a blog?
mircea_popescu: make one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ok i'll bite. where do i buy one.
mircea_popescu: gorj, romania's lignite mining county, finally had govt subsidies cut after 5 years of the mines n olonger being economically workable.
asciilifeform: and i think i'd like a 'boeing' too, for 250.
mircea_popescu: prices collapsed, an apt could be had for a working color tv.\
mircea_popescu: because everyone wanted to just fucking leave.
mircea_popescu: it came back to sense within a decade.
mircea_popescu: this was an earlier time in romania : foreigners weren't allowed to own property, like in fucking burma, and locals were the sort of retards the soviet collapse left behind,
asciilifeform: as i understand it costs more than that to have your title not magicked away by the 'big boy' privatizers in the locale
mircea_popescu: not the slightest clue of a commercial spirit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you misunderstand. no title was ever magicked.
asciilifeform: aha if no foreigners, even easier
asciilifeform: that's the only way prices like this can exist
mircea_popescu: yup
asciilifeform: or soros et al would snap up the whole shebang
mircea_popescu: worthless dollars being worthless, of course.
asciilifeform: only'
asciilifeform: ' 500k 'worthless' dollars buy a moscow flat
asciilifeform: today.
mircea_popescu: Adlai there's nothing wrong with hatin' an' railin'. on the contrary. meanwhile the attempt to not do so seems to be damaging for the attempter.
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't live in moscow if the flat were free.
asciilifeform: just example.
Adlai isn't hating and generally doesn't reach critical mass of serialized words to justify a 'blog'
mircea_popescu: Adlai just a thought.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050208 << why the fuck would you own furniture in excess of the real estate you own ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 17:15:40; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'unlike anywhere in the civilised world, the Argentines rent unfurnished.' << wai wat?! most rental pads where i live are unfurnished - just the way i like it (wtf to do with the incl. furniture if you have your own?)
mircea_popescu: this is like renting cars without the engine. "because i have an engine"
mircea_popescu: why the fuck are you going around with an debodied engine!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not in excess. in exactly the correct volume.
mircea_popescu: to rent means, ready to use.
mircea_popescu: if i rent i expect to take the keys, take a girl there and fuck her in this order.
asciilifeform: but no, i don't have precisely same items to put in rented space as the neighbouring derps
mircea_popescu: if i wanted a place to work on i'd buy it.
Adlai has also been busy with the likes of https://github.com/adlai/bip0032sbcl/commit/d5b1b52
assbot: http://www.dorodango.com/create.html · d5b1b52 · adlai/bip0032sbcl · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mwt35I )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then you're muddying the discussion up by being one of those who lives in a warehouse
mircea_popescu: obviously warehouses are rented empty whether you live in them or not.
mircea_popescu: this is residential not commercial space we're discussing here.
asciilifeform: Adlai: aaargh, is that a shell callout!? wtf
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of my actual residence here
asciilifeform: i -like- my desk, chair, etc. don't want 'generic' ones when i move
chetty: germany unfurnished apts didnt even have a kitchen sink
mircea_popescu: you're nuts, the lot of you.
Adlai: asciilifeform: i've not yet polished hdw, the only reason i touched that file is so the commit would still pass tests
Adlai: (guy used a defconstant symbol as a local variable)
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares about the desk! and a chair, whatever, you just... buy a new one! that fits!
mircea_popescu: what sort of consumerist culture is this anymore!
asciilifeform: Adlai: and srsly, sha256 as a callout?! it's a pg or 2
Adlai will lift from ironclad when the time comes
trinque: mircea_popescu: do you know how long it takes to get the perfect ass crease in an office chair?!
Adlai: (with the medium/long plan, if this thing reaches usable quality, being backporting)
Adlai: or upstreaming
Adlai: or whatever the kids call it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if were moving to, wherever, jp, yes - things more economical to buy 2nd time than ship - would
mircea_popescu: trinque i never used a chair for more than i dunno, a year ? two ?
asciilifeform: but that isn't 100% of furniture
chetty: <trinque> mircea_popescu: do you know how long it takes to get the perfect ass crease in an office chair?!// longer than modern ones last
trinque: haha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you also go around with your bed ?
mircea_popescu: "this is my bed, my grandmother died in it"
asciilifeform: phun phakt: i once had a costly, 'premium' type office chair spontaneously convert into a stake
Adlai: ;;ud chair ass
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chair+Ass | Chair Ass. The natural effect of the slow growth and spread of a clerical worker's physical frame, across the span of years of combining vending machine snack ...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda why you change them yearly.
Adlai: clerical workers, the lot o ya
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or use one made 20+ yrs ago
trinque: Adlai: standing desk is where it's at
trinque: better for pacing angrily
danielpbarron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCmeHCnPwxY
assbot: Homer - Ass Groove - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BwZOvL )
asciilifeform: my brother works in a chair that almost certainly was once at 'bell labs'
mircea_popescu: look, if you're going to fill a place with antiques, YOU SHOULD NOT BE RENTING IT
asciilifeform: it is indestructible.
mircea_popescu: antiques suffer from transport, and wtf do you even want to put nice furniture in a place you don't like.,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, plainly antiques should only travel in atomic dirigible
asciilifeform: for the rest of us, who don't have access to $maxint - they sit in rented hovels, yes
chetty: oo thats what I want a desk that goes up and down so you can sit or stand :D
asciilifeform: chetty: we have these where i work
asciilifeform: chetty: overrated imho
Adlai: !s ikea shelf
assbot: 0 results for 'ikea shelf' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ikea+shelf
mircea_popescu: basically, you're in this space that doens't eixst, at all. there's a) real estate you own, and you like enough to own, which contains furniture of value proprotionate to that. and b) real estate you don't give a shit about, if you come back to find it ablaze you just shrug and move on.
mircea_popescu: yours is some sort of insane c) where it has all the disadvantages of both.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is approximately correct
mircea_popescu: well so then, here's an idle thought :
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is puzzled because he can afford sanity
mircea_popescu: the reason you find it so hard to escape the gravity well is in no small part due to the fact that you;ve spent many decades making the wrong decisions and they're a bitch to undo.
asciilifeform: but over here we live in demented pauper-land where sanity is a premium product available to select few.
mircea_popescu: hardest of all is to move from c).
asciilifeform: decades << not quite decade
mircea_popescu: may explain why you're even contemplating the alien insanity, instead of just telling me i'm evil.
asciilifeform: but otherwise a nearly obvious description of what a gravity well even is
mircea_popescu: i guess so huh.
asciilifeform: i mean no shit, it sucks and no one would climb in on his own volition
asciilifeform: if knew what's in the tank
mircea_popescu: myeah. i see it. well... i feel better for having discussed it!
asciilifeform: but i probably should elaborate a little
asciilifeform: would happily set fire to all of it if had the other half of the conundrum licked
mircea_popescu: that's a rare man, and a virtually inexistent woman.
chetty: I beg your pardon
asciilifeform: l0l
trinque: easier when you're poor, heh. I've moved across the country several times, selling all the crap that didn't fit in a car
asciilifeform: trinque: i used to be 'theoretical'
mircea_popescu: chetty it's rare. you know it's rare.
asciilifeform: which is what i call folks who don't need any physical plant
trinque: better to advance the career, get another tv or whatever
asciilifeform: a good friend of mine is 'theoretical'
trinque: asciilifeform: ah yeah, I am mostly bits
asciilifeform: a mathematician
asciilifeform: i envy him often
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> which is what i call folks who don't need any physical plant << which is why i said i was a theoretical physicist :)
trinque: heh!
chetty: rare it may be, but it does exist
mircea_popescu: it does.
mircea_popescu: hey, i covered my ass with that virtually in there.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: yeah, when he accused me of having a financial interest I got bored
asciilifeform: i trained the pet, inadvertantly, by threatening, for some years, to move us into a ship
fluffypony: stupid moron
asciilifeform: (which at one point wanted to do)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97406 @ 0.00034083 = 33.1989 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the what's his name disease
mircea_popescu: orlov
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: i've been on ships. they suck.
mircea_popescu: fucking bilge, nuff said.
asciilifeform: know what else sucks?
asciilifeform: living on land in gringolandia
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I don't redditard professionally, I used PRAW + some python to grab the info and then shoved it into Excel of all things
asciilifeform: on $smallint
mircea_popescu: fluffypony well the results were so out of place for the venue. like... wow.
asciilifeform: on the ship you get the thing americans pay $maxint for - maximize distance from nearest human on command - for $0.
mircea_popescu: well, for $gas
fluffypony: I was very annoyed :-P
asciilifeform: sail.
mircea_popescu: op get the motherfucking fuck out.
asciilifeform: (orlov has a small engine, he claims only for parking)
mircea_popescu: you were going to live on a sailboat ?
mircea_popescu: what are you, a cartoon character ?
asciilifeform: had idea before reading mr o, but it was him who demonstrated that it can be done on something less than orbital budget
asciilifeform: anyway, i'm not satisfied presently with his demonstration. he cheated.
mircea_popescu: you ever like... i dunno, ever had a friend in porn invite you to spend a while with a coupla girls on a yacht ? or generally, spent any time on a sail vessel ?
asciilifeform is not an expert or veteran of the art. but also is not esp. susceptible to motion sickness
mircea_popescu: but have you ever spent, a whole day, on a sail anything, at sea.
asciilifeform: nope.
mircea_popescu: yes. well, before you expend any serious money / other resources on this, do that.
trinque: the sail really gets the thing swaying
mircea_popescu: you can not begin to imagine how fucking inconvenient it is. at all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for this and other reasons decided that 'too orbital' for budget constraint.
mircea_popescu: i mean sure, as an outing, soemthing to do for a day or w/e, great. splendid sport.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, jail is BY FAR more comfortable.
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want to live in a bob sleigh or inside your go-kart either. it's not that dissimilar.
asciilifeform searches memory for historical figures who are known to have done any serious thinking while under sail
mircea_popescu: nelson, for one.
mircea_popescu: but he sailed an english manowar.
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: also franklin. but he sailed english ocean liners.
mircea_popescu: also twain, same.
mircea_popescu: none of these are the thing here discussed.
asciilifeform: at any rate, mr o spends most of his time at anchor
mircea_popescu: because "he chooses to" right ?
asciilifeform: the machine, as i understand, is for reasonably quick, inexpensive, and unobtrusive jurisdiction-switching
mircea_popescu: would be a shitload cheaper to just rent serially. FURNISHED appartments.
asciilifeform: as well as climate-switching
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: air travel -> arse inspection. sail - not yet (doesn't scale well)
mircea_popescu: yeah, sure, because he couldn't be served just as well by a common bus.
asciilifeform: bus to uninhabited islands ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70100 @ 0.00034423 = 24.1305 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: boat is a machine for getting away from fucking humans
asciilifeform: bus, passenger plane, auto - no.
mircea_popescu: mkay.
mircea_popescu: i propose this matter still needs a lot more thinking.
asciilifeform: it solves an actual problem, that some folks perceive themselves as having
asciilifeform: which is the one in 'stand on zanzibar' and of the 'mouse city' overpopulation experiment
chetty: I could go for a deserted island :)
asciilifeform: chetty: by far the most economical way to get there is on water
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050212 << i'm on the record saying that italians are really the scourge of europe, gypsyes muchly preferable. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 17:19:11; *: Adlai wonders how http://trilema.com/2015/argentina-for-business/#footnote_1_60514 fits with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzQuuoKXVq0
Adlai: https://i.imgur.com/xV3sl.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwvPHU )
mircea_popescu: yeah well, there could scarcely be imagined a more degenerate people.
mircea_popescu: make the italian a cook and forget it.
mod6: jurov: not even a test email made it through.
mircea_popescu: hahaha the youtube ends on the same note. "let them do the food"
danielpbarron: this video about itally might as well be about U.S., or Connecticut at least
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050215 << this is a complicated question. generally, the damage was done early on by a (perhaps understandably) revancharde russia, and late on, by a completely local brewed idiot. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 17:19:15; asciilifeform: thing is, colonizing power is not necessarily a civilizing one. how'd ya like ru colonial period in ro?
mircea_popescu: otherwise, romania was in europe throughout, it was going to push industrialization through regardless.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron the problem with places that used to be great but lacked the social structure to support it is they degenerate essentially the same way.
asciilifeform: walls of constantinopol
mircea_popescu: "give us your tired, your hungry" omits the whole picture : sure a country of immigrants is a grand way to build yourself up. but, necesarily, it's a great way to fall over like a deflated donut within a century.
mircea_popescu: happens every time.
mod6: give us ur derps
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050233 << funny thing being, that if they actually want a copy they can just ask neh ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 18:52:56; asciilifeform: i think this one went to /dev/null
asciilifeform: phr33 s4mpl3
asciilifeform: will hand-deliver to hitler if he asks nicely
asciilifeform: nobody wants a copy, but only to be annoying
mircea_popescu: which is the ridiculousness of it all. teenaged priss kinda likes a boy, does not find it within her purview to go on knees moan for cock. oh no, must pretend this that and the other.
mircea_popescu: god forbid we think less of her unless she doesn't do the exact things that make one think less of her.
mircea_popescu: basically the usg is about 15 and has grown up on a gated community. in connecticut.
asciilifeform: more like cat that 'plays with its food'
asciilifeform: 'we're in no hurry, you and i', the beast says to the mouse
mircea_popescu: mno.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#985304 << is the "BTC" side of this to be paid post-fork, because otherwise the deal is really 750 BTC + 750 gavincoin in exchange for 1k gavincoin ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 02:32:01; mircea_popescu: ;;sell 1000 "Gavin Scamcoins" @ 750 BTC Future delivery. Larger amounts will get you an even better deal. Smaller amounts may be considered.
asciilifeform: i mean, i'd like to think not, but cannot fairly claim to be certain of not being mouse
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron ahem. through what sort of magic the parts summed exceed the sum ?
danielpbarron: 750 BTC today will be on both chains post-fork
mircea_popescu: right.
danielpbarron: so someone pays you 750 BTC today, which turns into 750 BTC and 750 GSC (gavinscamcoin) later, and you just need to buy another 250 GSC to settle the deal
mircea_popescu: or in other words, they make 250 gsc for no risk, if they believe this theory whereby "people" will "update" to gavincoin on gavin's say so.
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: that assumes this 750 BTC is prefork.
danielpbarron: right, it's still a "good deal" to those who are so sure the fork will be a hit; i'm just trying to figure out how "good a deal" it is
danielpbarron: so it's kinda like they are trading 750 BTC for 250 GSC, no?
danielpbarron: where BTC is this "stilly worthless thing" to them
mike_c: danielpbarron: you need to be 75% confident to break even
mike_c: if you are > than that confident in gavincoin, it's a good deal
mike_c: i can do the math for you if it's helpful
danielpbarron: I think I got it now. I was hung up on my own bias against GSC
danielpbarron: in that, I would probably be willing to trade 750 GSC for 250 BTC
mike_c: then you can undercut mp :) quick, make an exchange!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9293 @ 0.00033945 = 3.1545 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: are you making me an offer?
mike_c: no, i don't sell btc for fiat or for gavincoin.
davout: this video about italians is amazing
davout: the retarded part of the french also clap at landings
davout: mircea_popescu: furnished flats are the exception in france too
asciilifeform: davout: i suspect that they're absolutely standard wherever inhabited by ordinary folks, rather than business travellers or mircea_popescu with $maxint
Adlai: davout: my cdg layover mia→tlv was packed with equal parts frenchman and jew... confusion over whether to clap was palpable.
davout: haha
asciilifeform: davout: unfurnished, that is
asciilifeform: rather than furnished
davout: asciilifeform: yea you got me confused
davout: Adlai: they seriously made you login to your comp? that's pretty retarded
mike_c: americans only clap when landing in las vegas.
asciilifeform: davout: the laptop thing is becoming standard in most of the usg world
Adlai: after i repeated "linux" a bunch of times, ran xterm and opened random man pages, eventually the guy got overwhelmed/embarassed and just waved me on
asciilifeform: davout: if it has any purpose whatsoever, it is a training run for shoulder-surfing the pw in case they decide to confiscate the machine
davout: asciilifeform: is it to search it? or to check that it isn't just filled /w explosives?
asciilifeform: davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050246 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 18:58:33; asciilifeform: Adlai: i still don't get this notion where t3rr0s1stz -somehow must- replace -all- of the cells in the battery with plastique, instead of only half
Adlai: asciilifeform: if that's the case, the guy failed afaict, seemed to be waiting for graphical login and was shocked to discover that all had taken place in text
davout: good thing i'm only carrying my friends laptop i don't have the credentials to
Adlai: (he was totally zoned out until i pulled him back to reality, impatient to get IN the plane)
asciilifeform: davout: insta-confiscation, presumed plastique.
asciilifeform: in usg airport
Adlai is amazed that his laptop passes chemical swabs
asciilifeform: (sorta like admitting that you have someone else's suitcase)
davout: asciilifeform: i don't really get why logging in to it isn't deemed enough proof it isn't a bomb
Adlai: for, ahem, contraband of the airborn pollen variety.
asciilifeform: davout: because it's a lie
Adlai: it's proof that you don't care about 'unlocking' the device
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00033945 = 17.5835 BTC [-]
davout: braindamaged on so many levels
Adlai: you've never had security at an event ask to open a bag/compartment, only to barely glance what was inside once open?
davout: danielpbarron: btw when i say an exchange, i mean an exchange
Adlai: not really, it's behavioral profiling and it works when you're less braindamaged than your expected enemy
trinque: they're just derping through a script they've been taught
trinque: they care that they hit the major bullet points, don't care how effectively
asciilifeform: Adlai: everyone has. because actual anal inspection for every 'client' takes far too long. instead - lottery.
asciilifeform: when your number comes up - then, then the fun.
trinque: generally smiling at the fucks and making pleasantries is enough to get through quickly
danielpbarron: davout, well I posted the invite on the forum; they know where to come
trinque: though I may be white and combed-hair enough to not be bothered often
Adlai: army tactic: let 99% pass unmolested, anally inspect the random 1%. (and call in female sergeant for the other inspection)
Adlai: like TA, this only works if everybody knows you're doing it
trinque: Adlai: the point in my mind is that these aren't ideologically motivated goons
davout: danielpbarron: you mean an invite to -otc?
Adlai: no, the guy at the border check was just doing his job
trinque: they're just bored kids, with as much focused malice as a bored kid can muster
Adlai: he was really embarassed at how impatient i got
Adlai wasn't sure what to expect, but in his mind, it involved at least being led away from the public areas... no such privilege, just awkwards blocking the line
trinque: I have no trouble smiling and being friendly with some govt goon if it gets me on my plane quicker, or out of the airport quicker
danielpbarron: davout, to here.. -assets
davout: ah, well to take up the offer you got clarification about amirite
davout: either way, it can't really work now, there can't really be a contract that defines what a gavincoin is before the guy actually commits some code
danielpbarron: it can't really work now because anyone dumb enough to want to make the deal doesn't actually have enough money for it to be worthwhile
danielpbarron: that aside, it should technically be possible to strike a deal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38900 @ 0.00033945 = 13.2046 BTC [-]
davout: there are plenty of people dumb enough to take the deal that also happen to have >1k
davout: it's not possible, because defining gavincoin as "everything that is not bitcoin" just doesn't work
danielpbarron: i'd define it the way they do: a fork of bitcoin that gets 80% consensus from miners (or 75% or 95%, whatever magic number they want)
davout: what if it's like a emergency bugfix harfork? or any kind of non-braindamaged hardfork we actually agree with?
davout: because the contract also has to have an expiration, in case the hardfork never actually happens
asciilifeform: 80% << obligatory >> 'We use the term "thieves" if the number of men does not exceed seven, "band of marauders" [or "war-band"] for a number between seven and thirty-five. Anything beyond this is an "army".'
asciilifeform: ( http://www.regia.org/research/warfare/fyrd1.htm )
assbot: Regia Anglorum - The Fyrd (Army) in Anglo-Saxon England - Part 1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9XjQK )
danielpbarron: i could specify that it doesn't count as a fork if the resulting coin is still accepted by MPEx :p ☟︎
asciilifeform: lol, package -did- show.
asciilifeform: even a free sample board in there.
mike_c: pics
mike_c: do they look visually reasonable? no balls of solder hanging off the sides?
asciilifeform: visually yes
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mf1.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mf2.jpg
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
asciilifeform: one of the bags contains an empty board (souvenir?) - order consisted of two assembled standard rng
davout: danielpbarron: :)
nubbins`: alf, cool
asciilifeform: did not yet test
asciilifeform: dimensions are perfect within visual limits, though boards have panelization burrs
asciilifeform: (unlike my cn supplier which ships only perfectly-smooth edges)
asciilifeform: ic orientations are correct
nubbins`: where'd this batch come from?
asciilifeform: 'macrofab'
nubbins`: a
nubbins`: much price diff?
asciilifeform: recently-opened outfit in usa
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i have nothing with which to compare the price. nobody else on the planet does qty.1 smt assembly+board with no tooling charge
nubbins`: that's the ultimate bespoke, hey?
asciilifeform: for their weight in gold.
nubbins`: HEH.
asciilifeform: will say later if these even work.
nubbins`: i was gonna offer to purchase the empty board for posterity, but i doubt that's on the table anymore 8)
nubbins` generally only buys two things at gold/oz cost -- gold and printer ink
nubbins`: and even printer ink, i'm buying in bulk these days
nubbins`: ...and fwiw there was a tooling charge, just not presented as such :P
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/latest-ransomware-targets-game-files-related-applications/ ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mf3_compare.jpg
asciilifeform: ^ left hand: them. right hand: me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, anyone else who cares ^
asciilifeform: nubbins`: tooling charge is rolled into everything, sure
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050687 < a fork by any other name... what's so hard about referencing blocksize in the contract? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 21:14:18; danielpbarron: i could specify that it doesn't count as a fork if the resulting coin is still accepted by MPEx :p
asciilifeform: nubbins`: but very different from when you pay 500 usd per individual change in the layout.
nubbins`: re pics, nb!
nubbins`: i came across a picker/placer robot arm project recently that i meant to paste here
nubbins`: will literally never find it again
Adlai: ;;google zenrobotics
gribble: ZenRobotics: Product: <http://www.zenrobotics.com/>; Company | ZenRobotics: <http://www.zenrobotics.com/company/>; ZenRobotics - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/user/ZenRobotics>
danielpbarron: what's so hard about << I guess I care more about it being accepted by MPEx than I care about the blocksize
danielpbarron: that is, if MP says the blocksize needs to go up, then up it shall go!
davout: Adlai: because imo a one-off 2mb block size increase coin would be valued very differently from an exponential-growth block size coin
danielpbarron: not that i think this will ever be demanded, but there could other changes needed to avert catastrophe that depend on a fork
danielpbarron: especially when considering how messy the code apparently is
davout: Adlai: for such a thing to make sense it has to give the ability to short gavincoin into the dirt, nothing else
danielpbarron: sounds like the thing could accidentally fork at any moment
davout: lol
danielpbarron: ascii is right though, for the purpose of this gavincoin thing, specifying block size should be sufficient
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56300 @ 0.00033986 = 19.1341 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: ah i see what davout is sayinng
danielpbarron: your exchange could have many different fork-coin options to trade
danielpbarron: "if there is a block bigger than X, Y, or Z
danielpbarron is still skeptical that there is any demand for USGavincoin
danielpbarron: when it's not that the deal isn't good enough, or that it's too hard to define, it becomes "can't trust you -- need to first invent smart contracts"
danielpbarron: "By developing software that does that and by assuring that we have enough block space to include all the rules. Why everything that you say has to be limited somehow? Why can't we have freedom to do whatever we want?"
davout: this one is magical
Adlai is reminded of #b-w the other day starting around https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2015-03-10/?msg=33809596&page=6
assbot: IRC Logs for #bitcoin-wizards | BotBot.me [o__o] ... ( http://bit.ly/1F58hY8 )
Adlai: if you really want to boost bitcoin's hashrate, why not organize a tx processing strike?
Adlai: (answer: because miners dgaf)
mircea_popescu: ugh.
mircea_popescu: so fucking stupid srlsy.
davout: mircea_popescu: Y U NO BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY???
mircea_popescu: Most of these folks simultaneously demand government programs to alleviate poverty and hunger, mass transit so the poor can get to where the good jobs are, and international aid to the Third World. In short they want structured, paternalistic programs that address needs defined by the intellectual elite. They are bitterly opposed to innovations that merely give the masses more goods, food, or money and leave the decisi
mircea_popescu: on making to individuals.
mircea_popescu: First, the money has to be taken by force from the wealthy. Voluntary contributions don't count. Taxation at a level that the wealthy will consent to doesn't count. Any approach that recognizes the wealthy as having rights is unsatisfactory. Even worse is any recognition of philanthropy and the idea that some of the wealthy have social consciences.
mircea_popescu: Second, the programs can only address needs defined by the intellectual elite. We won't provide cheaper cars; we'll force people to use mass transit. One volunteer aid group once did a study of Third World needs, concluded that one of the most pressing needs in Third World countries was transportation, then excluded automobiles from consideration because they felt that automobiles had a negative effect. When mass trans
mircea_popescu: it doesn't work in the low-density U.S., we'll try to compel people to live in higher density housing.
mircea_popescu: see, this is exactly adeuqate : these fuckwits are the exact prototype of the sterile "intellectual". they wish to matter, and they wish this mattering to happen through administrative measures.
mircea_popescu: so "why don't you organize a boycott"
mircea_popescu: "well... because i'm not a dickless dipsit, like you."
mircea_popescu: dipshit*
cazalla: Adlai: you've never had security at an event ask to open a bag/compartment, only to barely glance what was inside once open? <<< my first evar job was bag checker/door security at a retail store, i would ask to look in bag, they would open, i would nod and they'd walk out.. they might've easily walked in, filled up the bag and walked out with the goods because i sure as fuck didn't know
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 149732 @ 0.00034058 = 50.9957 BTC [+] {4}
Adlai: but if they don't want to open the bag? game's over
mircea_popescu: Adlai i dunno, i told a schmucky kid once to mind his own business. nothing happened./
Adlai: how inconvenient
mircea_popescu: um ?
davout: cazalla: it's all theatre
Adlai: nm !
cazalla: Adlai, no-one ever objected and i imagine that to anyone who wanted to come steal socks and undies, i was a god send
Adlai: where was this? there are probably better targets for shoplifters who need to make a living
Adlai: oz?
mircea_popescu: some supermarket.
mircea_popescu: well... i also told the derpy organisers of some local "swinger's club" to get bent after they wanted the chick to check her clutch.
cazalla: Adlai, it was at store similar to target or kmart, but just clothing
mircea_popescu: wtf ever heard of such nonsense.
Adlai: there's something intoxicating about a position of power, even if it doesn't really mean anything
Adlai: especially when the intoxicated goon thinks it means the world
mircea_popescu: autoritah!
Adlai: dishiprin.
mircea_popescu: really, it's not about the position, it's about the scumbag. this is how you know vulgar folk in all times of places, that they're made of base metal : if put in charge they foul things up.
cazalla: Adlai, ah i never saw it as such, i was only placed at the door because i got the job as a result of nepotism and they had to put me somewhere hence first evar security guy for that shop lol
mircea_popescu: plenty of people do just fine in positions of authority.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00033633 = 2.7579 BTC [-]
Adlai: cazalla: most tlv venues ranging from cafes to clubs, movie theaters to supermarkets - have 'somebody' at the door, generally with a pulse or an expression (rarely more than one), and this the
Adlai: * theater is accepted as 'security'
cazalla: i don't recall ever feeling it was a position of authority, more reminded of the fact i was nervous but at same time excited to get pocket money
Adlai: sure, the bit about authority was more >> 'wtf ever heard of such nonsense.'
trinque: heh, I was buying bulk tp at walmart recently and the door troll stopped me and tried to block my exit
trinque: "I did not steal toilet paper, you idiot." -> walked around her and out
trinque: she seemed shocked that this could be possible
nubbins`: she seemed shocked to learn that she doesn't have the authority to stop you? o.O
Adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1vKDM7wfiA
assbot: Respect my authoritah! (Compilation) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1F5dHT9 )
trinque: nubbins`: people are so goddamn polite around here, practically canadian
nubbins`: canadians are rude
Adlai: oh canada
cazalla: trinque, ya know, i didn't buy toilet paper for many years (use to take 1 or 2 rolls home from work each day) ☟︎
trinque: cazalla: heh! I had a gf that would jack my tp from her work when I was 19; that's called having connections
nubbins`: it sure is
Adlai: ;;ud g i butt wipe
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=G.I.%20butt%20wipe | G.I. butt wipe. During World wars I and II,American foot soldiers were only issued about 10 individual squares of toilet paper to keep backpack weight and ...
cazalla: the cost of wiping your ass adds up
mircea_popescu: get a dog, will lick you clean for free. ☟︎
trinque: lol
Adlai: that is wrong on so many levels, except the dog's
trinque: I've seen a dog devour cow turd after cow turd; a mere human ass is nothing
mircea_popescu: lol
cazalla: ya, that's why i don't understand how people can have their dogs or other animals inside the house
mircea_popescu: cazalla i knew a chick that actually loved her dog.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i loved my dog too but she was a dog
mircea_popescu: aussies.
Adlai: !b 3 ✂︎
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3G2Q3WE.txt )
cazalla: said dog http://i.imgur.com/nqNNNvP.png made it to 16 years too, quite good for a staffy
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F5eXFP )
mircea_popescu: eee
Adlai always imagined that an uncomfortable posture
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67900 @ 0.00034518 = 23.4377 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: you know that dog is practically saying "aussies..."
Adlai: twist your torso, now put all your upper body weight right on the twist!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 130 @ 0.01099999 = 1.43 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: mircea_popescu, despite not allowing her in the house, i am quite sensitive about my Lucy, so please don't be saying she had such a look :(
mircea_popescu: aw sorry!
mircea_popescu: just teasing you a little.
jurov: mod6 sorry, dns problem, fixed
mircea_popescu: wow! it actually happened that ppl complained about jurov's email thing and it actually was the case it was broken
mircea_popescu: i been waitin' for this...
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050798 <<< such life haxxor ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 22:28:01; cazalla: trinque, ya know, i didn't buy toilet paper for many years (use to take 1 or 2 rolls home from work each day)
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050804 <<< in romania, dog cleans you ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 22:29:29; mircea_popescu: get a dog, will lick you clean for free.
trinque: davout: next tier up is only shitting at work
trinque: at least on weekdays
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in france... http://41.media.tumblr.com/655c83b5213fb218ae4a102611225095/tumblr_n30s9xDvX81s8rc6go1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F5gpIl )
cazalla: trinque, not of the class who waits until arriving home to do such things?
trinque: I self employ now, but the joke always was among friends to shit on the company dime
davout: mircea_popescu: notbad.jpg
trinque: so I guess I'm always shitting on the company dime these days
mircea_popescu: i fucking managed to find salt pickles.
mircea_popescu: such relish
Adlai: boss makes a dollar while i make a dime // that's why i shit on company time
trinque: !b 1 ✂︎
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2G2RHM9.txt )
trinque: that's the one
Adlai: bathroom poetry
Adlai: vandals carrying spraypaint, sure. but it always seemed a different breed of vandal to wander around with a sharpie
cazalla: easier to pretend to go on break with others who actually are on break (dependent on type of job of course)
davout: Adlai: so it should really be "boss makes a dollar while I make a dime, and a turd"
mircea_popescu: the turdime!
Adlai: better yet, run one of those bitcoin shit-ship-shops... just don't let corporate know you're doing materials r&d for the startup on the company clock
mircea_popescu: how do you think the extant ones are made ?
cazalla: quote from a coindesk article.. who is missing from the list of 5 twitter accounts? http://dpaste.com/0NSJG4T.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F5iROV )
davout: http://imgur.com/J5U3l1j <<< god knows what these little girls will sell for bitcoin once they turn 16
assbot: Little girls wearing google glasses selling cookies for bitcoin. This is Silicon Valley. - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1F5iV1a )
Adlai thinks of this every day, 3-4 times, while tesla wags his tail like he's cured parkworm
mircea_popescu: cazalla lmao nitwits.
mircea_popescu: cazalla and do they link to qntra or ?
cazalla: what do you think?
mircea_popescu: i think it sounds like a first best ever news site
cazalla: it's not that i mind that they mentioned other people part of a possible syndicate with silvey (which i didn't include in article as no proof of this anyway) but least they could do is admit that yeah, we followed it back from the avatar after having read about it on qntra
Adlai: they're just recycling http://blog.cryptocrumb.com/2015/03/fbi-silk-road-auction-of-march-2015.html although ferrin doesn't mention Steve Youngblood
assbot: Crypto Crumbs: FBI Silk Road Auction of March 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1F5k8pd )
Adlai: but everybody knows steve youngblood right guise?
jurov: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 295.51, Best ask: 295.68, Bid-ask spread: 0.17000, Last trade: 295.7, 24 hour volume: 27046.72490813, 24 hour low: 291.04, 24 hour high: 298.8, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64000 @ 0.00033633 = 21.5251 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;ticker --currency EUR --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 278.22547, vol: 8229.45591540 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 279.3, vol: 122.00342 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 276.313023, vol: 138319.96870000 | Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR last: 278.0, vol: 84.6419943 | Volume-weighted last average: 276.423721036
jurov: ;;calc 290/278
gribble: 1.04316546763
chetty: insomnia treatment: http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2015/db0312/FCC-15-24A1.pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cb8Dh0 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9966 @ 0.00033633 = 3.3519 BTC [-]
davout: chetty: looked at the page count, felt sleepy
jurov: i scrolled into the middle, saw fotnote number 1216 O.o
jurov: *footnote
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198450 @ 0.0003323 = 65.9449 BTC [-] {6}
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-03-2015#1050355 see classic essay ont he subject: https://www.peereboom.us/assl/assl/html/openssl.html ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 19:29:16; mircea_popescu: the only solution is to pull in the relevant code and encase it in acrylate.
jurov: in short, we're standing on the shoulders of monkeys