log☇︎
1714 entries in 0.719s
asciilifeform: just as there is no alternative to, e.g., ada
asciilifeform: or is this now 37th on the list of things-asciilifeform-has-to-write-in-ada
assbot: Logged on 24-09-2015 01:06:52; asciilifeform: unrelatedly, ada is melting my brain.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, ada is melting my brain. ☟︎
asciilifeform: whips and cuffs come with ada
asciilifeform has been recently carrying out a kind of survey of programming systems ~built for adults~. so far, nominees: common lisp, ada, standard ml. and that's ~it~
asciilifeform: they will program in ada, in hell
mats: well, just a thought here, functional programming looks like a better path forward than ada, if only because its easier to automate
ascii_field: it is certainly both possible and useful in narrow cases. see the ada threads
asciilifeform: (not counting ada)
mats: i know several folks hired out of univ to write ada for e.g. lockheed
asciilifeform: the best that could be achieved is 'ada ecc lib that provably does what the openssl routines claimed to do'
gabriel_laddel: nah, more along the lines of "I'm a programmer" "orly, do you grok lisp? What the primary advantages that haskell's type system provides? Ada's test suite: comments?"
asciilifeform: even fortran, ada, pascal
asciilifeform has been living with all of this, in today's thread, and more, while working on the inevitable ada bignumtron and rsatron.
mircea_popescu: except the one whose name's ada.
asciilifeform: betcha mircea_popescu could easily include ada in the gurlz training and no one will notice the difference
mircea_popescu: haha not in ada, just, they'll have to publish it and we'll go "omfg you can't be this stupid, redo it" like 50 times.
asciilifeform: in ada.
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 23:11:28; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2015#1245604 << actually a dr-dos version would be pretty cool. in fact i would guess an attempt to write private bitcoinfs and make dr-dos check blocks and an attempt to ada-bitcoin would necessarily end with a very similar if not outright identical product.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2015#1245604 << actually a dr-dos version would be pretty cool. in fact i would guess an attempt to write private bitcoinfs and make dr-dos check blocks and an attempt to ada-bitcoin would necessarily end with a very similar if not outright identical product. ☝︎☟︎
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-08-2015#1240358 << ada ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-08-2015#1237496 << not without turning your 'c' into a 'half-finished bug-ridden reimplementation of ada' ☝︎
punkman: 30 pages in, "Ada for Software Engineers", the code examples look gnarly
punkman: "Like any contract, the Ada Referebce Manual is written in very precise language, and the term ‘language lawyer’ is often used for people who are experts at interpreting the document."
punkman: http://kto.web.elte.hu/oktatas/ada/books/ase.pdf 'Ada for software engineers'
ascii_field: 'Ada 95: The Lovelace Tutorial.' David A. Wheeler << probably the most n00bish
ascii_field: 'Ada for programmers.', Eric W. Olsen.
ascii_field: 'Data structures with Ada.', Michael B. Feldman.
ascii_field: 'Ada for software engineers', M. Ben-Ari.
punkman: I'm also tempted to go with Ada 2005 so I can have all teh unicodez
punkman: gernika, my beard being short, I'm looking for something closer to "Ada for dummies"
gernika: punkman - I have the Ada 95 reference manual. Seems thorough. Also you can print out a copy of the GNAT User's Guide at Kinkos - which I've also done. Haven't actually made any progress in reading it but... Seems good by looking at TOC.
punkman: I grabbed a random Ada book last week, it was awful. need to look again
punkman: a standalone Ada wallet would be an interesting project
punkman: Ada on bare metal then?
asciilifeform: decimation: it isn't an ada or otherwise proofy system
decimation: asciilifeform: I see the wisdom in writing bitcoin in ada strictly to attract the kinds of programmers we actually want
mircea_popescu: then maybe it's time for ada.
ascii_modem: for ada port
mircea_popescu: you'd have to pick something for your ada port. and there's not atm any way to pick.
ben_vulpes: eh, alf may actually get to the ada impl before a block v1 sticks again.
mircea_popescu: but this situation is why im so cold on your ada idea. sure, you go put all the god damned effort into writing a fully correct, fully specified implementation oif an... broken idea.
ascii_modem: this incident makes it very tempting to just unzip, piss on satoshid, and go ada sanityfork (tm)
ascii_field: (see the old thread re: a hypothetical ada/spark bitcoind)
trinque: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/5/18/traumatized-students-sue-california-district-for-support.html << lol, they're trying to get "emotional trauma" ruled a disability legally under the ADA, which apparently means you don't have to pass high school, and are due lots of expensive pills and therapy sessions to reinforce your narcissism
Vexual: ^some ada for alf
decimation: asciilifeform: I would be willing to make the trade to some kind of fascist ada if I could be assured that the tools would detect nearly all detectablle bugs
assbot: 0 results for 'ada ravenscar' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+ravenscar
asciilifeform: !s ada ravenscar
asciilifeform: which is why i think that at a certain point the advantage of a 'bitcoin' which can be -understood- will outweigh the danger of failing to enumerate every possible corner case of the original turd when crafting the ada safety-critical bitcoinatron
decimation: although boeing is a famous 'ada' shop. but they probably outsource that shit too
mircea_popescu: (which is what ada is, after all)
asciilifeform: decimation> asciilifeform: more on ada: http://www.adacore.com/academia/universities/ < the list of us universities has a conspicuous absence of 'popular' tech schools << 'where used' is by far the least appealing aspect of ada. as for 'where taught', the answer is largely nowhere. the kind of thinking implied by ada is a -culture- that has to be imparted.
decimation: asciilifeform: more on ada: http://www.adacore.com/academia/universities/ < the list of us universities has a conspicuous absence of 'popular' tech schools
ascii_field observes that ada uses gcc backend, but this is already known to most
mircea_popescu: because much like ada, brainfuck is an actually specified language ☟︎
ascii_field recalls this exists as ada postprocessor
assbot: MSP430-Ada | SourceForge.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5QM9e )
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: as a result, it is actually much easier to - usably - plant ada on 'bare metal' (sans os) than nearly anything else
decimation: actually I kinda wonder why ada hasn't gotten more traction, given that it is far more 'portable' than C is
asciilifeform: this is -one- of the reasons why ada (and to a slightly-lesser extent - common lisp) is interesting
asciilifeform: if considering removal, might as well carry on with the ada rewrite.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: will daydream an alt-history << countess ada l. porn ?
asciilifeform: ada, like lisp, is not a language. it is merely a kind of void left by removing retardation.
asciilifeform: decimation: afaik there were never dedicated ada silicon
decimation: asciilifeform: it strikes me that a handy product would be a little ada microcontroller with an implementation of rsa
gribble: Ravenscar profile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenscar_profile>; Guide for the use of the Ada Ravenscar Profile in high ... - SIGAda: <http://www.sigada.org/ada_letters/jun2004/ravenscar_article.pdf>; The SPARK Ravenscar Profile - AdaCore: <http://docs.adacore.com/sparkdocs-docs/Examiner_Ravenscar.htm>
asciilifeform: ;;google ada ravenscar
asciilifeform: because ada spec -includes a scheduler-
decimation: actually some folks have tried to build ada kernel
asciilifeform: (when i do the thing that requires the ada, it won't be happening on openbsd. or gentoo)
decimation: I'm sure you can get ada working on osx but it's not as simple as 'port install gnat'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it has gcc. build with ada included in --enable-languages
BingoBoingo: If I want to revert to Nigbuntu or a linux, Sure I can get an Ada.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: OpenBSD does not have a working ada in its ports that I could discover
BingoBoingo: I had to replace the wifi card in this machine at a cost of $25, but that was not a dealbreaker. It's the other weird that prevents wholesale recommendation. It to asciilifeform's disappoint lacks an Ada
assbot: 1 results for 'ada examples' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+examples
Adlai: !s ada examples
mircea_popescu: wait, ada to compile a c environment ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i certainly intend to sit bitcoin down on the metal. on possibly even this machine. but will probably use ada's spark bare metal for it.
asciilifeform: little secret re: 'in anger' - ada doesn't need an os...
Adlai is starting to warm up to ada: http://archive.adaic.com/standards/83rat/html/ratl-13-03.html#13.3.2
trinque: not... buy an ada book
danielpbarron: oh btw i got my ADA reference manual; things quite nice. it's from a public library and it looks as though nobody ever checked it out
mircea_popescu: and as they become obsolete in the future, ppl not wanting to upgrade their bitcoin archives will provide hdds with one of those ada or lisp-esque eternal lives.
asciilifeform: all you lot, i suggest, learn ada/spark.
asciilifeform: around same time as ada '83
asciilifeform looking for l33t w4r3z, encounters not quite related: 'He cums inside Ada's mouth - Ada vacuums.avi'
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:06:11; mike_c: yeah, some like ada :D
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: because there is not actually an alternative to ada
thestringpuller: why is everyone complaining about ada
decimation: asciilifeform: the wisdom I've picked up from my own experiments and reading about yours is that it seems the ada compiler you choose is critical
asciilifeform: http://comp.lang.ada.narkive.com/vnn86krY/size-of-linked-program-increasing-with-new-version-of-gnat << mega-flamew4r
assbot: Amazon.com: Ada 2005 Reference Manual. Language and Standard Libraries: International Standard ISO/IEC 8652/1995(E) with Technical Corrigendum 1 and Amendment 1 ... / Programming and Software Engineering) (9783540693352): S. Tucker Taft, Robert A. Duff, Randall L. Brukardt, Erhard Ploedereder, Pasca ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdeOgX )
asciilifeform: for some reason nobody mentioned the ugliest thing about ada
asciilifeform is at this moment actively unenjoying the ada
mike_c: yeah, some like ada :D ☟︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 20:11:02; asciilifeform: PeterL: but you'll find that much of what programmers actually object to in ada is precisely the good parts
thestringpuller: ada isn't so bad. dunno why people are complaining...