assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7959 @ 0.00068778 = 5.474 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15423 @ 0.00068778 = 10.6076 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00068729 = 13.2647 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: Will work through some more of this tomorrow after I get the SoBA out.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00068406 = 4.6516 BTC [-]
mod6: ok i'll give it a whirl.
phf: growing up on a dacha i remember putting quicklime (calcium oxide) into sealed containers with water. one time a friend of mine got his vein opened with glass shrapnel, my grandfather drove him to a hospital and that was the extent of drama, no national news, no "dangers of quicklime", no concerned mothers calling for bans
mod6: haha 'toyota cervixxx'
mod6: i've kinda heard this too - you buy a word from them that hits on certain brain based reactions. something like that.
punkman made crappy gunpowder with other kids, nobody was maimed
phf: oh man, i think we would build another version of "metal pipe + match shavings" every other summer
phf: i thought twice before googling "негашеная известь бомба" just now, pretty sure on a list at this point. thought i suspect hanging out on b-a does that too
mats: such interesting childhoods
punkman: hydrochloric acid and strips of aluminum foil > vinegar
punkman: asciilifeform: and hydrochloric acid in the bathroom cleaning materials
punkman: I never mixed the thing myself, but I saw a kid make a pretty big fireball once
phf: oh vinegar is acetic acid
phf: seems like it's the same in pharmacology
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00068346 = 11.9606 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Logged on 31-08-2015 17:49:55; ascii_field: trinque: it is about more than wifi in particular, but the entire box it happens to be installed in
phf: more like bureaucratic cancer. bureaucrat is "responsible" for an area of human endeavor, same way as cancer is responsible for your lungs or liver
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00068496 = 21.0968 BTC [+]
phf: it's a common thread here, the whole rise of "open" as true openness disappears. to paraphrase snl skit, "our hardware is maker open - what does that mean? - not open"
phf: odd to read rms from 10-15 years ago and see his predictions come out right..
phf: right, well, it's the whole 1984 vs brave new world
phf: it's probably heinlein point, true freedom exists only at frontier, but because folk are preoccupied with practical things like "how to survive" rather then "my neighbor is smoking weed and ~gasp~ enjoying it"
phf: while china is playing catch up, you get a computing equivalent of wild west with areas where the control simply didn't have resources to manifest, as soon as u.s. stops driving chip design, china will start closing up same holes u.s. is in the process of closing up right now
phf: it's the main factory though, since everything else can be done pashtun style
phf: that's not a problem that i'm facing though, since i don't know of diddle diesel engines (i'm sure they are but..)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00068321 = 7.7203 BTC [-]
phf: i don't know how much of this concern is driving cause vs. purposes, i.e. real limitations experiences by you vs. building civilization from first principles anathema millenials style.
phf: i know that my computing rug is slowly being swept from under me
phf: that's obvious with hindsight, but imaginary in the same sense that лихие 90ые were imaginary, or really any other "interesting times"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.00068321 = 15.0989 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00068321 = 21.3162 BTC [-]
phf: yes nobody will be able to build freewindows10
phf: at some point you had SAIL and Augment basically design by men for men, lisp machines, xerox park as products of that. later you get two bit hacks selling imperfect copies of the glimpsed technology, thats your 80s and 90s. at this point there's already "no grasp", but the control is limited, basically a byproduct of commercialism. now you get the next stage, which is when the bureaucrats are getting involved
gernika: my daughter is currently playing with logo on freedos. freedos is perfect for kids.
gernika: boots up to C:\. Then they just have to type in the name of the game they want to play and hit enter.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14813 @ 0.0006831 = 10.1188 BTC [-] {3}
gernika: asciilifeform aha. so that's why comander keen doesn't even work.
phf spent more time with duke nukem
gernika: Tried derive.exe on freedos too - doesn't work either.
gernika: it starts - but the screen is filled with garbage
phf: what isn't. at some point freedos was legit in a poc||gtfo kind of way, i.e. "we did it for the lulz", but now it's positioned as the only legitimate way to run dos programs. that you of course purchased from GoG.
phf: how else would you ensure that linus is not mean to anybody?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19250 @ 0.0006838 = 13.1632 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 31-08-2015 23:26:04; ascii_field: would be even cooler if it updated
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:00:40; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dulap ~still~ trailing by 35 blx
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:05:59; *: asciilifeform once heard allegation that virtually all major product names, esp. in usa, are purchased from one particular firm specializing in names...
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:20:23; asciilifeform: from sneeze meds that are less meth-worthy to floor cleaners lacking acids
mircea_popescu: sorta like Rembrandt School of Art : since 1950, making paintings almost as good as rembrandts, with less work per sq in
mircea_popescu: in local news, argentina GDP fell 4.9% today because one of the lengthy queues accidentally merged with its own ending, resulting in 84`755 people spending an average of 8 hours following a very intricate 12 mile pattern through town for no apparent purpose.
phf: get in queue, figure out what's available later, su style
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:29:13; asciilifeform: no one is banning linux. instead there is a 'linux foundation' (see log) which will sign 'legit, non-terrorist' kernels for you
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:33:36; asciilifeform: on account of how you can't really write an engaging yarn about inhabitants of the real thing, as we have it
mircea_popescu: reality beats fiction mostly because fiction has to be things reality does not.
mircea_popescu: oh, you're not so very engaged by this reality ? FUCK YOU BITCH LMAO
gernika: asciilifeform - I haven't tried it. Running it on an old thinkpad. Got msdos 6.2 working in parallels - but parallels is literally a virus.
gernika: ok not a virus but malware
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one of the funniest protests (sexually repressed women generally) bring to my sexual themed writings is "oh, it would never happen like that".
mircea_popescu: but it also has very little regard for you know, "the reader has come to expect"
gernika: asciilifeform oh derive.exe? derive.exe works in my parallels 6.2 image.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:40:57; asciilifeform: so far, EVERY SINGLE SI FAB ON THE PLANET and ALL THE DESIGN TOOLING (with the exception of chuck moore's...) runs on winblowz
gernika: Wonder if the Soft Warehouse guys still live, and if they have it.
phf: like some game enthusiasts trying to get source from electronic arts, good luck
gernika: I sadly DID NOT KNOW about this program in junior high and highschool.
gernika: I would have checked then even numbered answers
mircea_popescu: "Basic bottom line: every 6 months there's a hard fork. You get 1 hard fork's grace before you have to update or be left behind.
mircea_popescu: Every 6 months, either on March 15 + September 15 or on April 15 + October 15, the Monero network will have a hard fork. 30 days before the fork we will have a code freeze + tag + release, and if there are no major changes we'll have an increase in the protocol version (ie. that's at a minimum). A similar fork system to Bitcoin will apply, whereby a rollover to the new code after the trigger block will only occur if a
mircea_popescu: Anything that is more of a soft fork will kick in immediately (as long as it doesn't drop pre-fork clients off the network). Anything on the p2p layer (ie. hard forkable) will be kept in the wings until the next fork date (as roughly estimated from block height) and then is enabled.
mircea_popescu: The upshot of this is that you can run a client that is a year old, but pretty much after that 1 year anniversary you'll be dropped off the network (even if there have been no "real" changes in that year)."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more in the sense that the blondy teen that is always clenching her jaws shut is vaguely interesting in a way her verbose airheaded cogeners are not
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 02:28:35; gernika: boots up to C:\. Then they just have to type in the name of the game they want to play and hit enter.
mircea_popescu: that behaviour is certainly the l;argest contributor of wy i am even vaguely interested in computers at all
mircea_popescu: had i met linux as a boy i'd be pissing with froth on the entire stupid stack.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 02:36:00; *: asciilifeform fond of commander keen.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 02:51:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: after the thread!
mircea_popescu: wehn i linked to it, i linked to an item put there a week or so ago.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8502 @ 0.0006859 = 5.8315 BTC [+]
mod6: this press command is pretty neat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00068401 = 17.8527 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu: giving inept infantrymen good horses doesn't create an elite cavalry regiment, it just creates a lot of injured horses. giving stupid people smart things doesn't make them smart. it'll just make a lot of broken smart things."
phf: the only thing enemy will drink is amontillado
mircea_popescu: how many alfs are there ? how many do they need, to cover their immense if fictitious debt base ?
mircea_popescu: you kidding me they just took even more millions at whatever dilution
mircea_popescu: "Alydian Inc., a unit of CoinLab Inc., on Friday filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. bankruptcy court in Seattle. The 10-page court filing didn't disclose why Alydian filed for bankruptcy or how it hopes to repay its debts."
mircea_popescu: there's a finite count of failing to goal that these things can survive.
mod6: asciilifeform: qq, I was under the impression that when using press, if I picked something like 'maxint_corrected', it would patch all the way up through that one. but it didn't seem to apply the -verifyall patch? or do I misunderstand how its supposed to work?
http://dpaste.com/1J2BS40.txt thoughts?
mod6: i see, when i check flow, i see that 'verifyall' comes /after/ maxint
mod6: which isn't the case chronoligicaly
mod6: but in this case, it is. i get it. sorry.
mod6: i was mechanically cross checking the output file checksums against the v054-TEST2 bundle and noticed that i didn't come out with -verifyall in there. was really wondering for a minute lol.
mod6: *chronologically too
mod6: yeah, i don't grasp that part fully yet. but it does make sense from genesis up through patches/bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch
mod6: i suspect that I'll need to look at the touched files and the hashes to make sense of this.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00068299 = 17.0748 BTC [-] {4}
mod6: ok, i think i get it. neither patches/asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.vpatch or patches/asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option.vpatch have any dependants (d's)
mod6: but the rest do, so they come last.
mod6: well, the 2 i just mentioned come last. is there any reason on the sort order of the last 2? or i just need to grok toposort more?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> descendants ! << mean this, my apologies.
mod6: heheh, my fingers didn't want to type what my brain was trying to say. it's a little baked from the sun today at the fair.
mod6: no, not at all. it is accurate in my opinion
mod6: i know nothing of python... although from reading your code, i'm starting to grasp it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2965 @ 0.00068137 = 2.0203 BTC [-]
mod6: the origin cmd is pretty neat too
mod6: sure. i was able to figure that out straight off np. helped by having a few bundled up in v99/wot/
mod6: but yeah, i just `mkdir -p ~/.seals ~/.wot` and dropped the sigs into ~/.seals and the pub keys in ~/.wot and off it went.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17549 @ 0.00068108 = 11.9523 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: i saw punkman say something about dropping in a python-gnupg side-by-side with V -- i've gotta try that yet. might be cool for an airgap box or something.
mod6: i guess i don't mean to confuse.. was just thinking about it in the capacity where a stripped down box is being used.
mod6: oh it's just a wrapper?
mod6: anyway, thanks for putting all this together!
assbot: Logged on 24-08-2015 15:42:03; asciilifeform: thing to realize is that gpg was written to be maximally un-librarifiable. like gcc.
mod6: and for taking the time to explain some of it to me.
assbot: Logged on 24-08-2015 15:42:03; asciilifeform: thing to realize is that gpg was written to be maximally un-librarifiable. like gcc.
phf: i spent some time going through exercise of getting rid of main in gnupg 1.*, compiling it into a dynamic library, loading into a lisp and calling c functions through ffi. it's doable, but yeah environment very hostile to librarification: often times reporting is done only as a printf, with no status codes, so impossible to do simple (= (ffi-call...) 0) without unpacking the c level function
mod6: fair assesment there. but, i think it's great, and clean, and "works". responsibility is on the signer to read what they sign. same in life.
phf: sure, but i did some large scale projects using ffi (including things like modifying arrays on heap from inside c libraries), so i don't think it's necessarily dead end. just that gnupg doesn't make it easy at all and requires basically full environment scaffolding before you can do anything useful
mod6: <+asciilifeform> rather than roasting in the hell of figuring my patch topology out with a pencil << imagine how much easier it is now for a person to literally pick a place in the flow and patch directly to it. instead of wading through mutliated corpses trying to find the least smelly ones.
phf: which wouldn't be a problem in a traditional c code, but in case of gnupg half of the code seems to have hidden, side channel concerns, that i just don't have yet enough experience in practical crypto to grok
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00068045 = 15.7184 BTC [-] {3}
phf: for example this code
http://paste.lisp.org/display/154625 validates signatures (using ccl's ffi generator and slightly patched gnupg 1.4.19), but on failure verify_signature either prints to stdout, with no notable return code or sometimes exit(...)'s the whole process
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51950 @ 0.00067731 = 35.1863 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105413 @ 0.00067078 = 70.7089 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16122 @ 0.00066132 = 10.6618 BTC [-]
assbot: [bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box ... (
http://bit.ly/1JIwQce )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.0006852 = 10.7919 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9567 @ 0.00066618 = 6.3733 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20083 @ 0.00066627 = 13.3807 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00067449 = 8.9033 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22364 @ 0.00067449 = 15.0843 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30965 @ 0.00068325 = 21.1568 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13654 @ 0.00066439 = 9.0716 BTC [-] {4}
gribble: Current Blocks: 372468 | Current Difficulty: 5.425663032788996E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 372959 | Next Difficulty In: 491 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'v' is a double-edged sword, however, i must say, in that it makes it possible to build therealbitcoin without reading patches or giving a fuck << blind trust is only a problem to the blind trustor.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "blocking ports" bs has been going on for nigh on 20 years now.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the "bitcoin uses port 8333" thing is retarded.
mircea_popescu: this notion where we respect ~anything~ has got to go.
BingoBoingo: prolly skip port 25 though, MSExChange servers pissing spam everywhere prolly ruined that one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3838 @ 0.00056039 = 2.1508 BTC [-]
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: you'd have to complain to the author of the OpenAES library :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00056671 = 12.2976 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: So much #ifdef, seeding with time and process id
fluffypony: I just fixed it to use gettimeofday instead of ftime on BSD
mircea_popescu wouldn't feel safe fucking kim w/o a coupla wrestler wingmen ready to tag.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Time machine could also work
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Seriously though all the ifdefs scattered everywhere
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: well it's either that or we have to refactor every exception into functions_windows.cpp / functions_bsd.cpp / functions_linux.cpp etc., which would make the code splintered and extremely hard to work with
BingoBoingo: The way everything is organized now is also very hard to work with. cmake scattered all over every directory
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: that's a CMake best practices thing, the guy that did that (Ben Boeckel) is one of the CMake developers
fluffypony: too many disparate environments for that
BingoBoingo: Even qt.pro as implemented in bitcoin, for people who still use it that way, seems more organized
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00055048 = 8.7526 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100000 @ 0.00063841 = 63.841 BTC [+] {9}
punkman: BingoBoingo: I dunno why anyone humors the license derps
BingoBoingo: Neither do I, but they are so easy to troll
shinohai: Because as we say in the South, "Backdoor guests are best".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00063391 = 11.4104 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: punkman well some people still persist in this vc fairytale/pipedream
mircea_popescu: they'll sell their worthless startup for billions and so forth, if only they respect licenses and never say bad things about fat people or something
shinohai: Nice article BingoBoingo All you need to do now is drop it off in r/darknetmarkets and a few .onion forums, there goes your BIP101 support
mircea_popescu: anyway, the ridiculous pretense that openssl is still even a thing at all.
☟︎ assbot: A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared | Bingo Blog
shinohai: Jees, how hard are you being watched?
BingoBoingo: Well, If I know the FBI/Treasury/WTFObolaBBQ is watching why would I even create an opportunity to be framed as a person looking to participate in drug commerce?
mircea_popescu: chick's great, and check out how deeply she bothers the two other insecure ones.
jurov: "SERENISSIMAFAT12" kek
jurov: asciilifeform: your server serves it as "Content-Type text/plain"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00067086 = 9.8616 BTC [+]
cazalla: shame about those eyebrows but still
shinohai: ^ How about just do your goddamned job, and quit if you love Jesus more?
cazalla: punkman, she is carrying the child in her ass?
☟︎ cazalla: might be time to make a kanye leaves kim bitbet
adlai: cazalla: ty for the poem
adlai reminds: web != network
cazalla: adlai, ah don't thank me, i was drunk
cazalla: kim looks fat moreso than pregnant, at least at that angle
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6657 @ 0.00065401 = 4.3537 BTC [-]
assbot: You have not rated adlai.
jurov: !rate adlai 2 scalpl rocks!
jurov: !v assbot:jurov.rate.adlai.2:cb5011365bf06199a6d2cceaba400a8cd7d09136245e39a056356edb7184477f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for adlai with note: scalpl rocks!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00066805 = 8.9185 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00065401 = 12.23 BTC [-]
shinohai: I'm not certain someone like that can be truly described as "human".
shinohai: Perhaps he could be described as a member of the species whose brain has not yet fully evolved.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39784 @ 0.00065881 = 26.2101 BTC [+] {4}
shinohai: Any bibliophiles here that would care to make a recommendation for my Winter reading list?
punkman: I put "The Three-Body Problem" on my list recently, seems like it got a Hugo award in the meantime
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00065658 = 7.4522 BTC [-]
shinohai: Haven't read any sci-fi in a while. That will be good.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00065927 = 41.1384 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00065927 = 1.0219 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10129 @ 0.0006567 = 6.6517 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00065752 = 14.7942 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00065697 = 16.4899 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19650 @ 0.00065184 = 12.8087 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 08:27:20; mircea_popescu: anyway, the ridiculous pretense that openssl is still even a thing at all.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:49:55; asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think that a mathematically-rigorous description of openssl (not to even mention boost and bdb) could be achieved in 10,000 years of sweat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00064586 = 9.0097 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56243 @ 0.00064791 = 36.4404 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: what could possibly be the target for bug-to-bug compatibility?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00065689 = 2.1349 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: we maybe could have bug-to-bug compatibility between bitcoinds built with rotor, but otherwise when did bitcoind have bug-to-bug compatibility across versions of itself, openssl, bdb, etc
assbot: How a bug in Visual Studio 2015 exposed my source code on GitHub and cost me $6,500 in a few hours ... (
http://bit.ly/1LIaQls )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65000 @ 0.0006554 = 42.601 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78804 @ 0.00064088 = 50.5039 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190816 @ 0.00061551 = 117.4492 BTC [-] {8}
punkman: pete_dushenski: it was working earlier when I looked, I think
pete_dushenski: Hmm I'm still seeing "Status : Internal error" on the mpex receipts
trinque: aw what happened to that "RALLY!" I heard so much about only days ago?
mod6: circut breaker used 1,200 times: MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE HERE
mats: rice and beans for dinner
trinque: mod6: surely this is just a temporary correction or whatever the fuck the propaganda term is now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.00055185 = 5.8772 BTC [-]
trinque: shinohai: grats on gentoo quest
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.0005552 = 15.268 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: not a ~real~ recession, those don't happen in the biggest bestest firstest americas
trinque: lol, now technical means "not really a (but yes really a)"
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 01:34:42; asciilifeform: in real world, 'telescreen' is not in every room but in every toilet stall, and people not only do not hide from it but pose for it, and complain about not enough resolution on the ccd.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: /why/ was gpg written to be unlibrarizable?
☟︎ trinque: maybe so people would be discouraged from automating its use
mats: conspiracy aside, probably just twenty years of glue and paperclips on a design nobody ever expected to be in production
☟︎ mats: just like bitcoin, huh
ben_vulpes: i'm asking specifically about the conspiracy, mats.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform has referred to rms doing this with i believe a compiler as well, and i would hear the story. 'cawsmic rayz and shitgnome bitrot' isn't the kind of story to scare children into losing sleep over.
trinque: yup, in the case with gcc, I think the idea was that there'd be a barrier to understanding it if it were monolithic
☟︎ trinque: and therefore a barrier to say ripping off components and making non-free versions
ben_vulpes: so not just technically challenging to call into the c code of but actually deliberately obfuscated?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?
☟︎☟︎ trinque: ben_vulpes: also a barrier to poetterings, maybe
trinque: "better not make it too good, or people will want to use it"
phf: ccl for example uses a hacked up version of this ffi generator
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/lth/ffigen/, which is in turn a set of intrusive patches against gcc. can be done, but wouldn't go into upstream for political reasons
trinque: strikes me as exactly the idiocy of "free software"
trinque: and also, utterly ironic to be worrying about how "free software" might be used
ascii_field: 'They then use these keys to spawn large numbers of EC2 instances to mine for bitcoins.' << exercise for the reader: calculate how much, e.g., litecoin, could have been mined by the attacker.
ascii_field: (answer: enough for one bus fare in new york)
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 15:51:39; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: /why/ was gpg written to be unlibrarizable?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:42; ben_vulpes: so not just technically challenging to call into the c code of but actually deliberately obfuscated?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:05:28; trinque: yup, in the case with gcc, I think the idea was that there'd be a barrier to understanding it if it were monolithic
ascii_field: think of your internal organs. what if they were as easy to steal, cleanly and quietly, as a bicycle ?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:54; ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?
trinque: but I do also see a benefit in barriers to poetterings
trinque: large and complex doesn't necessarily mean incoherent, just not friendly to noobs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00054648 = 15.0282 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: specifically, and by design, unfriendly to ~slicers~
ascii_field: little monkeys who want to take the 'good bits', file off the serial numbers, and run with'em
☟︎ trinque: yep, that makes perfect sense
phf: re gnupg, that was actually in faq for a while, but they shortened the whole answer to "not a chance"
phf: “Can't we have a gpg library?
☟︎ phf: This has been frequently requested. However, the current viewpoint of the GnuPG maintainers is that this would lead to several security issues and will therefore not be implemented in the foreseeable future. However, for some areas of application gpgme could do the trick.”
ascii_field: also it is a mistake to suppose that this practice is merely for protecting against plagiarism
ascii_field: it is really a weapon against 'embrace & extinguish'
ascii_field: or at least, the only one with some track record of success.
phf: i like the href name
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:43:28; phf: “Can't we have a gpg library?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10083 @ 0.00054477 = 5.4929 BTC [-]
ascii_field: yes, i would ~like~ a gcc library; (and a gpg library.) but i understand the authors' logic re: how this could easily and catastrophically help the enemy
ben_vulpes: for argument, how is this 'slicing' different from what we're doing with bitcoin?
ascii_field: what we are attempting is rather like buying, cleaning, repairing old car; they - pulling off the wheels off someone else's parked machine, as in india
btcdrak wonders where he can short Mike and Gavin's reputation which seem to be going down in flames along with the XT movement.
☟︎ ascii_field: ^ from my reading, this had a very real chance of destroying the non-pgp contract as even a theatrical production
punkman: ascii_field: I remember reading about it in 2013, stumbled upon it today. nothing inbetween
ascii_field: that suggests it was successfully hushed up.
punkman: "A reader tells me there is a small notice in his copier's admin panel about character substitution. On his device, the “bug” can be avoided by setting compression from “normal” to higher. As a consequence, the issue must have been known by Xerox – so why was nobody telling us?"
punkman: "Rick Dastin, Vice President at Xerox, is the first one actually working at Xerox being able to tell me that character substitutions actually can occur and Xerox knows (in contrast to their support). They also tell me that this is wanted."
punkman: "More and more known enterprises reach out ot me these days, asking theirselves if they have a huge problem with their scanned documents. Others are already certain thay actually have a huge problem, some of them in security critical contexts. All have in common that they understandably are afraid of publicity."
punkman: from the comments: "Have there been any lawsuits by companies against Xerox for damages caused by Xerox machines substituting characters in various financial reports or other types of reports. I'm having difficulty getting people to believe your report. "
ascii_field: the xerox thing is brain-meltingly hilarious
punkman: "I work for Xerox and I had to hear this from outside sources like this one. "
ascii_field: i can't help but wonder if someone is getting a red star pinned on his uniform in moscow, for having planted this bug
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40004 @ 0.00054659 = 21.8658 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, sent note pointing out that if it happens again that's it for that box. i'm not so convinced it'll do anything. consequently... prep to move it, i guess. got any suggestions of location ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31717 @ 0.00054499 = 17.2854 BTC [-] {4}
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i am ready to move it. but can't think of, yet, a good place to move it ~to~
ascii_field: that wouldn't be ruinously expensive, poorly jurisdictioned, or both.
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> not a ~real~ recession, those don't happen in the biggest bestest firstest americas << Testnet Americans
ascii_field: but this is really for mircea_popescu to decide, given as he supplied this item as 'pro bono'
mircea_popescu: yeah i dun see a problem paying 1-1.5 for this. provided the box is decent and the dc unretarded, i'd take it.
ascii_field: i would dare to suggest that the subcontract should include a stipulation that >1 unsanctioned reset per year == termination
ascii_field: diametric informed me that his bisp box has not experienced resets...
ascii_field: little goblins hang around specifically dulap
mircea_popescu: online webexperts assure me that this is a coincidence and also was published before by a scientist somewhere.
BingoBoingo: Dulap probably needs a datacenter with dogs on the floow
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i think you should apologize before making fool of self kthx.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: i'd settle for a welded 1u with internal 12v battery
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: traditional lease in this part of the world, for human habitation, is 1y
ascii_field: state of maryland requires vendor to offer 2y
mircea_popescu: how about you pick out a system, i buy it, and then you run nsa from home.
mircea_popescu: it'll be cheaper than paying a coin a month for 10 months i'm sure, and we also get the added advantage that we put all the eggs in your basket
jurov: ANN: coinbr had to be shut down and will likely stay for several days till i fix the mess.
☟︎ jurov: ANN: all funds are there, it just got nonsensical answers from mpex
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i did think about this, earlier; principal obstacle is the provision of adequate cooling in my sorry hovel. but in the absence of a better idea, will have to resort to this
trinque: alright, when do we buy a cruise ship?
trinque: the scientologists have this figured out
punkman: unfortunately, I don't yet own a datacenter in the Congo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189059 @ 0.00061087 = 115.4905 BTC [+] {15}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34250 @ 0.00066404 = 22.7434 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: it isn't. just a sheepskin not worth the tanning
mircea_popescu: your idea is amply divergent from reality. do you know WHO is itching to go ?
trinque: I hear Christian "missionaries" do very well in Africa
mircea_popescu: place's crawling with "whornorary ambassadors" and whatnot
ascii_field: laws of the monkeys proclaim, must stand upside-down on head on odd-numbered tuesdays
ascii_field: if found to run business in residential zone, will HAve Pr0blemz
mircea_popescu: your company rents a place from some other company to crimp the ceo (ie, you)
mircea_popescu: actually a honest signal to all the twerps involved not to mess around.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field 4x 40 bucks ? so ? why do you care ? tax deductible.
trinque: yeah dude, gotta run everything through an llc
trinque: haven't you seen Arrested Development?
trinque: ok comedy series on bezzleland's mcmansion industry
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you're a smart kid, do the math. or better yet, have the girl do the math.
mircea_popescu: i'm not about to go all crazy here and suggest you actually hire an expert, you've not been buying bitcoin for long enough yet.
mircea_popescu: yes you pay more for utilities, but not THAT much more and in general actually less than what the tax would have cost you, and you get to deduce the rent too, and it never really ends.
mircea_popescu: the appearance of "costs" is what's known in poker as a trap. to keep the fucktards out. so dun be a fucktard, you can think, there's no rule that you may only think about coding or something. think all through, the same way, everywhere.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: don't credit newspapers just because they're newspapers when you know in your own field what a shitfest they are ; don't expect the laws etc are anythig but badly written, poorly maintained code full of holes. as reverse-engineerable as anything else.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00066628 = 10.8271 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: I am already offended by this site's loading screen
trinque: mmyeah I knew what this site was gonna look like.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck is this "casey research ring my scam bell"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00066766 = 4.3064 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 09:51:37; cazalla: punkman, she is carrying the child in her ass?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00066785 = 28.3836 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 11:07:45; shinohai: Perhaps he could be described as a member of the species whose brain has not yet fully evolved.
mircea_popescu: ""According to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), between 2011 and 2020, more than 140 million girls will become child brides. Furthermore, of the 140 million girls who will marry before the age of 18, 50 million will be under the age of 15." << note how little the agenda has to do with the purely fabricated news story.
mircea_popescu: convenient enough that there's nobody in english speaking places reading the yemenite newspapers about how "child dies at hands of doctor" or similar nonsense.
mircea_popescu: "oh, doctoring is a privileged activity, if some people die that's just not mentioned ; a functioning society is pointedly not a privileged activity, if anyone dies we'll put it in the newspaper".
mircea_popescu: " Most pro age-limit organizations agree that 18 should be the legal age for marriage." << check it out, voting works NOW.
mircea_popescu: the fact that most of the world agrees girls can marry once they can walk, that doesn't count.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: but if the whorbassadors i ncongo agree the age should be 18, then hey, DEMOCRACY!!11
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:38:44; jurov: ANN: coinbr had to be shut down and will likely stay for several days till i fix the mess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.000665 = 10.0415 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 14:24:44; asciilifeform: imho it is not actually possible to replace it with ~provably equivalent~ item.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 15:45:36; trinque: english... will it blend?
mircea_popescu: because it really makes one sleep better at night, to see teh crime fightin' experts couldn't find someone older about 13 or so to write their writings.
trinque: glad to see the PA cousin-fuckers love the rebel flag
trinque: what a shithole of a state.
trinque: says Pennsylvania in the tags
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:56:08; mircea_popescu: the appearance of "costs" is what's known in poker as a trap. to keep the fucktards out. so dun be a fucktard, you can think, there's no rule that you may only think about coding or something. think all through, the same way, everywhere.
trinque: registering an llc is like 300 bucks
trinque: right, and they're taking deductions on goddamn everythig
mircea_popescu: alfie stop telling yourself stories and read the book of nature instead.
ascii_field: also mircea_popescu appears to have forgotten about mr stack and his programmatory llc ?
☟︎ trinque: gonna die anyway, why not act tactically til then?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that was entirely a different story. he was trying to organise his coding income through a llc.
trinque: take every deduction you can, and so on.
trinque: your side projects are this llc. not your job
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if i did not put my income through it, then it is a plain tax shelter and this lasts precisely five seconds if anyone so much as farts on it
trinque: dude nobody says your side business has to be profitable
trinque: there wouldn't be any if that were the case.
mircea_popescu: im telling you, whether you'll like it or not : this conversation is to me indistinguishable from conversation with blondy who has decided "she doesn't have a math head". meanwhile she has exceptionally keen eye for shoes, to a degree most math heads could not keep up.
ascii_field: trinque: understand what an llc without a dime of income or so much as threatening to earn any, looks like ?
mircea_popescu: you're the fucking same thing in a different color scheme already!
mircea_popescu: the same head that yields beautiful code also yields legal arguments, yo!
ascii_field: consider that i actually operate an llc (with partner) since '10, and not speaking entirely from my arse
trinque: sure, you're not the only one.
mircea_popescu: reality isn't like, you pick if to be an archer or a tank like fucking wow.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23410 @ 0.00066979 = 15.6798 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: no but reality means that if i have to spend two weeks appearing in a courtroom, for whatever reason, i starve.
trinque: but if you buy computers, it's an expense. pipe to house? expense.
ascii_field: coinbase is blessed by his lizard majesty.
mircea_popescu: they're exactly your stage +2. "since we gotta have all these llcs anyway, hopw about we derp more"
mircea_popescu: if this isn't proof that people pick their life, nothing is.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3140 @ 0.00067286 = 2.1128 BTC [+]
mike_c: mod6, ben_vulpes: does the foundation have any ideological opinions on something like trac?
trinque: would not interface with V for one
mike_c: hm. I was thinking for issue tracking.
ascii_field: trac iirc is a www-based bug ticketing thing ?
mike_c: yeah. like bugzilla but newer with bells.
mike_c: i don't care a whit for it specifically, more for some kind of issue tracking generally.
mike_c: trilema job board only goes so far.
trinque: betcha not a single person did this right either, as with VCS
mircea_popescu is still waiting for someone to murder get a freelancer with
trinque: thing about trac is it's exactly this "cram it all into our project" mentality
mike_c: you know, ascii says 'someone should add file history to V' and I think, yeah, that is much needed and I could bang it out quickly
trinque: I could see V being applied to this problem too
trinque: where proposals are signed
ascii_field: mike_c: please don't hesitate to experiment with 'v'
mike_c: I will, but scattered todo lists in various places, feels like it needs a little project management.
phf: there lies the road to hell
trinque: mircea_popescu: maybe not; thought was you patch in new textfiles into some directory structure
trinque: and perhaps my idea extends yours
mike_c: phf: like most things, not if done well
trinque: and at that, maybe it's a docs folder in the actual bitcoind project
phf: mike_c: "dianetics is not wrong, it's just that you're failing at apply it", aha ;)
mike_c: having a provable and validated package of code is important enough to have something like V. not sure tracking bugs needs to be so rigorous
ascii_field: i dare say this may be an example of the kind of thing one doesn't actually need unless already in a state of dire sin
mike_c: what, managaing a todo list?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62383 @ 0.000665 = 41.4847 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: hopefully V becomes an example of how problems ought to be approached around here.
trinque: damned precise approach to a single problem
trinque: trac's way in the other direction
ascii_field: 'v' is for small groups of t3rr0r1stz who all quasi-know each other and share a wot
ascii_field: people like this imho do not need mechanized 'bug tracking' machinery
☟︎ ascii_field: in fact, look at the people who ~do~ appear to need it. how much it helps them ?
mike_c: it helps. just because idiots use it doesn't mean it's not helpful.
mike_c: here's the problem - there are ~6 people who may work on V
mircea_popescu: trinque that spirit is right, but it can't become a "vchain technologee in your fridge" thing
mike_c: there are ~10 things that could/should be done
mats: i am curious to know when 'yi yi zhi yi' progresses to 'yi fa yi yi
mike_c: who keeps track of who claims what?
mircea_popescu: no, v is the only correct solution to "windows update" problem.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ie, a mega system deployed by billions of people in a million different nooks and crannies
mike_c: just like someone claims something on your job board and you put their name on it
mircea_popescu: how about "people who don't know each other aren't working on the same software, no matter what they might think"
mike_c: so 3 out of the 6 people don't run off and do the same thing
trinque: might not be a bad thing that they do all duplicate effort
mircea_popescu: either they know each other so no problem, or they don't and so no problem space.
mike_c: but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: mike_c understand, there's no promise that V will result in even similar bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact all the bitcoin-copy altcoins could just as well have run on v
mircea_popescu: "use this signset to package ltc ; use this signset to package rippe" etc
mircea_popescu: mike_c my definition of "know each other" is, "they can navigate the who's doing what maze". that's the bar.
mike_c: and the list of "what needs to be done"?
mike_c: mhm. recite the todo list for V :D
mircea_popescu: (that list MUST be kept. in one head, or a collection of heads approximable to one head.
trinque: not the list, but say you want to explain why you did something
mircea_popescu: if it is not, you will have rebuilt washington dc. you don't want that. dead 8yo girls from cunt explosion is much better.)
phf: mike_c: there's a recent openbsd presentation that argues against claiming. their point is that the problem of duplicate effort is a lot rarer then lock grabs. and i must add duplicate effort always results in increased understanding if both solutions are analyzed
mike_c: locks only happen with mediocre and lower workers
mircea_popescu: phf the way "claiming" has to date worked in b-a has been as a gubernatorial function, mostly me encouraging/discouraging people from certain projects.
mike_c: who will not suffer wot penalty for not doing what they claimed
mircea_popescu: moderate success rate on former, low on later, soft sort of thing anyway.
mircea_popescu: in any case the concept of "democratic self management" is about as idiotic as it gets. like a one-legged chair.
mike_c: I for instance have worked things to 75% completion before locking to avoid stalling something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9327 @ 0.0006587 = 6.1437 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: just to remind, i had an offer from my wot for colo but must take whole half of cage for ~3 coins/mo
jurov: if bisp is interested
mircea_popescu: mike_c incidentally the reason i won't recite a todo list for v (and deleted alf's proposed list) is specifically because we don't even understand yet fully its implication. bitcoin-like.
mats: ascii_field: translates loosely to '[learning] the way of the barbarians to control barbarians'
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:08:42; mircea_popescu: no, v is the only correct solution to "windows update" problem.
jurov: here i would be able to manage the hardware with my own hands
ascii_field: mats: and it always bothered me that the tonality is not attached to the pinyinization
mike_c: perhaps I see it too simply. It is the way for me to get source code from people I designate as trusted.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i did most of a linguistics degree, can do certain things
mats: it is attached, my keyboard isn't setup: the three accents are associated with three of the four tones in pinyin
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:26:47; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once thought about placing antecedent hashes in patch headers
phf: mircea_popescu: i've come to appreciate the approach from observing it. one person who shapes the entire thing, and everyone else works with the given directions or else operates fully autonomously. people can still form subgroups for short term goals, but without imposing structure on the rest. etc. etc.
mats: 'yǐ yí zhì yí' is the pinyin
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 03:55:05; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 22:36:03; jurov: I personally got only an offer to share a rack with 4x100MBit(can be upgraded to giga) and 4xIPv4 for 500 euro/mo
phf: observing it here that is
jurov: then i can irl negrate people
assbot: WATCH: Florida pastor says women should greet their husbands looking ‘spiffed up’ with a hot meal waiting ... (
http://bit.ly/1fTBaNP )
jurov: what more do you want?
mike_c: trac is opensource. I bet I could integrate V.
ascii_field: mike_c: the beauty of 'v' is that no server, as such, is needed
ascii_field: and if it is ever tampered in any way, becomes immediately apparent to everyone.
ascii_field: would this be true of a hypothetical 'bugtracker with v' ?
mike_c: Surely. But integrating V could allow for "this patch solved this problem"
mike_c: patches are signed, so I don't see why tampering wouldn't be evident.
ascii_field: and now we have unsigned text and a centralized place to pwn and track activity
ascii_field: because what, you will sign every comment? every stateful change, button click ?
mike_c: No, just every patch. I'll fiddle with it and see if anything interesting happens.
mike_c: ah, but i see your point. mailing list is signed, this wouldn't be.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:21:09; mircea_popescu: jurov half a cage is what, 4u ?
mike_c: perhaps then less is more. just a todo-list with open/closed and claimed/unclaimed. communication all stays on mailing list
phf: mike_c: do you have a todo list for bitcoind written somewhere? or for v?
ascii_field: phf: the one for 'v' can be found in my original posting of it on the ml
mike_c: no, neither does anyone else.
mike_c: ascii_field; but it's out of date and incomplete
ascii_field: and mike_c is right, it is not entirely current.
ascii_field: however, i am not convinced that merely following the conversation here is not bugtracky enough
ascii_field: it was plainly not enough to reconstruct patch flow, yes
ascii_field: but for 'who wants to do what', it ought to suffice imho
mike_c: I think we may be close to the line.
ascii_field: mike_c: can you think of a time when two+ people ended up doing the same things?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3973 @ 0.00067118 = 2.6666 BTC [+]
ascii_field: or, alternatively, failing to do anything on account of waiting
mike_c: But I agree with your point about avoiding a lot of unsigned commentary
mike_c: ascii_field: the locking thing is not the biggest thing to me, more the accurate list of things that could/should be done.
mike_c: but to answer your question, yes.
phf: mike_c: ah but it's not true that nobody has those lists. ascii has one, i'm sure does mp, mod6 and ben_vulpes. i keep one too from reading the logs in a text file
mircea_popescu: jurov so it would be ~600 bucks for 8u of space, then hire you to manage it and then buy the actual machines. as an upside you actually have physical access and will lock down the boxes ?
phf: i think at issue is not really collision, but getting someone else to construct a todo list for you..
mike_c: I don't think that issue is phrased quite right. I'm not looking to get someone else to do anything.
mircea_popescu: phf more layers to it but as a first approximation yea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8466 @ 0.00065577 = 5.5517 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: another very important chunk of the story is the fallout from the "causes not purposes" philosophy. all b-a software exists because, not for, and this is HOW we end up with things like "well we now have this v-jewel, what's it for ?"
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and a traditional wife cooks. what's your point.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: ah point is to explain that 'cage' is a kind of standard term, like 'barrel' in petro industry
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> or, alternatively, failing to do anything on account of waiting << i could give some examples of this, but of dubious actual substance.
mircea_popescu: o you didn't know ? grew upwards in larger size from previous.
ascii_field: 'in my days we got forty rods to the hog's head and we loved it!!'
mircea_popescu: anyway, iirc the french kid that was going to do one of the versions of the job board thing got upset and left in part because iho he was waitinfg for me.
mircea_popescu: am i the only one getting spam from people trying to push blog-on-app "solutions" ?
mircea_popescu: that's fucking exactly what trilema needs, an annoying dinger on people's phones ffs.
jurov: mircea_popescu: yes i will ask about the locking and exact dimensions. also will need someone to make the shopping list and plan,
mircea_popescu: jurov but to be perfectly clear, this is a deal where you physically have access to the boxes in question and nobody else touches them
jurov: since i planned a rack onyl once so far, not something i'm proud of
ascii_field: jurov: if this were me, and here in this town, i would set up the batteries, tamper sensors, mains loggers, camera...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26115 @ 0.00065489 = 17.1025 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: yes, i understand. if it can be locked only together with other boxen, will say so
ascii_field: jurov: may be worth asking if your cage can be an actual locking sarcophagus
mircea_popescu: jurov in general, worth asking to get very clear answers because in principle i would be interested, but i have to clearly know what i'm interested in.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29011 @ 0.00064788 = 18.7956 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66135 @ 0.00064974 = 42.9706 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: ofc will ask everything
jurov: but i suspect the features you ask and the price will diverge considerably :(
jurov: also, what if lizards reboot the machine remotely with magic packets?
jurov: what was the proximate cause ?
kakobrekla checks last bitbet comments and zomgwtfisthatdudethinking
ascii_field: jurov: kinda why i want to place arbitrary hardware of my own making in there
mike_c: kakobrekla: it's not even right..
mike_c: oh, nvm, those are payouts
mike_c: I guess he trusts you not to muck with his comment more than to get the payments right :)
jurov: ascii_field: you relish in impossible requirements, don't you? i just that ... palpable improvement over some box no one in the wot ever saw, is possible
jurov: yes i meant at that price
jurov: and the juxtaposition of you doing it all personally and it being not in the north america
ascii_field: certainly 2btc doesn't buy so much as a parking space here where ~i~ live
ascii_field: jurov: well yes, i will not be doing it personally, unfortunately
ascii_field: so much of what imho needs to be done, cannot be done.
thestringpuller: ascii_field: so much of what imho needs to be done, cannot be done. << doesn't this technically make it impossible?
mircea_popescu: jurov im not interested in what may happen as much as im interested in taking specific reasonable measures.
mircea_popescu: and what exactly diverge you mean ? someone offered you half a rack for 500 except if you wish to touch it it's 19500 ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no you know, he's saved it there because that way, if we do something fishy, the record will be left behind.
jurov: if it turns out it's not possible to have lockable sub-compartment and must have whole vage for 1000 euro
jurov: okay. another concern would be?
mircea_popescu: i'm spending a lot more than 1k / mo on hosting. in fact i spend more on servers living space than on women living space, for my sins ;/
☟︎ mircea_popescu: just find out if you can put your hands on it and figure out if you want to.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:00:06; mats: conspiracy aside, probably just twenty years of glue and paperclips on a design nobody ever expected to be in production
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:54; ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?
mircea_popescu: "open source people" used to mean something, like "burning man attendant" used to mean something. now it means something else.
mircea_popescu: anyway, basically stallman saw the problem of "if i release bitcoin then the twerps will get it and pretend to be using it, and then pretend to be improving on it and soon enough it will be indistinguishable from the sort of shit that it was made to kill. because the source of the shit drowning us is neither god nor the aliens nor unforseen circumstances - it's the lesser apes we insist on calling humans for no reason."
mircea_popescu: and his solution to it was a sort of "so i'll release just the tip"
mircea_popescu: because that works now, and such nonsense counts as strategic design.
ascii_field: not only that, but rms is not mircea_popescu and the thieves would cry 'stop thief', sue inventor for using own item, and win.
mats: because search is broken i am having trouble discovering the revocation thread. anyone have a link, or would mind explaining implications for e.g. keyserver?
assbot: Logged on 15-05-2015 03:34:04; assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 21:44:05; ascii_field: i'm kinda curious why mircea_popescu considers a new key signed with a previous key to not be a logical continuation of the same identity. (is it because of the impossibility of hard-guaranteed revocation, as discussed in previous thread?)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14343 @ 0.000665 = 9.5381 BTC [+]
mats: so, practically, i shouldn't even bother handling revocation signatures?
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 20:19:54; mircea_popescu: i'm spending a lot more than 1k / mo on hosting. in fact i spend more on servers living space than on women living space, for my sins ;/
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't fault you for ignoring them. i would fault you for "handling" an undefined concept in a weird way.
ascii_field: iirc what mircea_popescu painstakingly explained in that old thread is that there is not, of course, a magical incantation which makes a 'revoked' key stop working
ascii_field: kakobrekla: it is presently not working other than for the display of old results. and will not work again until it gets 6+ weeks of uninterrupted mains current.
kakobrekla: there is too many or to few womenz in ams.
ascii_field: and if on 6wk - 1minute it resets, count again.
ascii_field: any redesign of that thing means rewrite 100%
ascii_field: because 1st step non-negotiably is to stop using sqlite.
ascii_field: kakobrekla: laugh, but that's where it lived for 1st year and a half
mircea_popescu: stop using whatever it takes, but the idea is, if a power outage a season means it does no useful work worth the mention, we can't have it. because we no longer live in the world of our forefathers, where shit worked. even obama gets power interrupted once a year.
kakobrekla: once a year ends up at 90% utilization which is acceptable, no ?
ascii_field: if i can put a 12v lead-acid cell in the 1u colo,
ascii_field: supposing the place is actually a data center and has ~some~ backup power
mircea_popescu: if multi hour outages are what you need, multi hour outages are what you'll get.
mircea_popescu: software that's more friable than the hardware is a bad idea.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: even with optimal design, it can save the product of moduli perhaps once per 24h
ascii_field: there is NO WAY to save it after every multiplication!
mircea_popescu: ascii_field 24 hours is within range. even, maybe, a week.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu did say, 'if you need x hour outages you will get'
ascii_field: we already established that it is not affecting diametric's machine
ascii_field: so what, monkey tasked with pulling out my mains cord, his arms will get tired?
ascii_field: ... he pulled new leaf from Excuse Calendar
mircea_popescu: "I recognize that you don't want me to "change the subject" to refactoring, but I don't see this as a change of subject."
mircea_popescu: "i will now say some words about your position after which we disregard it and replace it with mine. MAGIC!!1"
ascii_field: but do not have the time, and don't know when i will.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field was quoting from a summary of that ast debate someone linked.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field can't it be made to dump the product to disk along with some state every however long ? once a day ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes. and nothing whatsoever can happen when it dumps
ascii_field: this, too, means rewriting a good chunk of the thing.
mircea_popescu: "I was amazed that they were able to persuade RMS not to block the conversion to C++, and as the article points out, five years of plugins have not led to disaster;"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34185 @ 0.000665 = 22.733 BTC [+]
ascii_field: right now the factorizer and the web crud are entirely separate programs
ascii_field: which do not communicate except via sharing a db.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field so that db, can't it be snapshotted by a third thing ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not without stopping all of it
mircea_popescu: the design as described is good, and it should be db-replicated
mircea_popescu: ascii_field go in as root, lock the db, dump it, unlock it.
ascii_field: mno, what happens is that the result is not consistent.
mircea_popescu: mats lucky that the us was corrected up from the previous corection of 4.5
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not effectively. recall, the two processes do not know about one another.
ascii_field: it was an ultra-minimal design, that cannot be changed at all without making 25x more complicated.
mircea_popescu: what does your factorizer do if the db returns "wait" or w/e it returns if a lock's active
mircea_popescu: heck, the db shouldn't even complain, just hold the data
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44500 @ 0.000665 = 29.5925 BTC [+]
jurov: you swear on bitcoind's bdb hardwired in, yet you apparently did the same with phuctor and sqlite? O.o
jurov: if it's sane python+sql, maybe two lines
ascii_field: jurov: appreciate, the thing was written in a coupla hours.
jurov: i appreciate very much. but can't readily imagine this situation
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me this;d be a fine project for a young gent. "here's this code alf himself wrote (in two hours). here's the problem. fix it without breaking anyhing!"
mircea_popescu: it can go straighht to ml, and it can be an early 2nd simpler project to handle via V
ascii_field: thing is, it also needs to be rebuilt as discussed before, where it stores ~known factors of any given modulus~ in the db
ascii_field: potentially folks could even submit 'i know a factor for modulus m!' into a box somewhere, regardless of why
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: some things cannot be retrofitted. this is one of them.
ascii_field: and it is the only way of having moduli be retestable without temporarily unphuctoring them
ascii_field: phuctor is one of those things that is mechanically deadly simple on paper but very, very easy to fuck up irrevocably in practice
ascii_field: consider, flip so much as one bit in the product
jurov: that make it even more important to snapshot it
ascii_field: jurov: problem is that it takes a while to - reliably - save or load a GB.
ascii_field: and while it happens no multiplication can take place.
mircea_popescu: during which we just established jack shit's taking place.
ascii_field: well, yes. but in 6 wks product is reliably regenerated
mircea_popescu: i don't care about the site being down an hour a day, to save its guts.
ascii_field: (incidentally, it ~is~ possible to do this faster by splitting multiplications into a tree and distributing between machines. but this is considerably more moving part than what we have now, and quite enough for ph.d. thesis)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is very much right that the thing ought to save itself nightly. but this in fact requires rewrite.
ascii_field: also would be nice to NOT ignore the 5% or so of sks keys that have utf8-isms in'em
ascii_field: but this requires not only rewrite but the remaking of pgpdump lib !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00067349 = 16.8036 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: ascii_field: which part in werker takes 6 weeks?
ascii_field: ^ fella shot by cop after surrendering, on camera
ascii_field: we might be nearing mircea_popescu's magic 3% figure...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00067506 = 17.3153 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_field: thestringpuller: i only ~wish~ i could avoid leaving house
ascii_field: but at any rate, can get firing squad wherever
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00068063 = 16.9137 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: i personally would not be very astonished to end up killed in some variation on this theme.
mats: jurov: plz privmsg when coinbr returns from maintenance mode
mats: in the future some prior notification would be nice so i could shift into neutral
jurov: well, you said yourself you had some orders in error state
jurov: what other notification do you need?
jurov: if i had to stop it every time there's unexpected balance discrepance, that would be several times per day
mats: this is not reassuring
☟︎ jurov: did you read my mpex manual? it's explained there
jurov: and i complained numerous times here, too
jurov: also, i suspect i recently started using more proxies, which may have exacerbated the problem.. it's arduous to research, not done yet
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:42:32; ascii_field: little monkeys who want to take the 'good bits', file off the serial numbers, and run with'em
mircea_popescu: or to quote the webexperts in derpxertises, "The elephant in the room is that GCC and emacs aren't competing against proprietary compilers so much as they are against LLVM and clang. Whichever one has better features and support for programming is going to win mindshare and without mindshare you are dead. This is compounded by the fact that there are several major corporations helping LLVM along so you need steady cont
assbot: Logged on 15-02-2015 21:43:42; asciilifeform: 'but Richard is seemingly frightened about the compiler competition from LLVM that is out under a permissive free software license.' << fud artist lies through his teeth. rms is not 'frightened of competition under permissive licenses', but is pointing out that organized attack by shitgnomes flying (as always) flags of convenience, is under way.
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 22:07:54; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the llvm thing, prior to career as apple crud, had a previous life as a darling plaything of u.s. 'comp sci' academitardia
mircea_popescu: Posted Jan 25, 2015 13:39 UTC (Sun) by dakas (guest, #88146) [Link]
mircea_popescu: Uh, Eric Raymond explicitly created the "Open Source" label exactly to appeal to industry players who considered bothering with principles suspicious. So yes, Open Source is for people without principles. That's not Stallman's pitch, but an explicit design goal of the Open Source agenda. To replace the appeal to principles, a bunch of technical and marketing criteria are propounded.
mircea_popescu: The dearth of actually successful Open Source companies (where Open Source is part of a permanent rather than an exit strategy) makes it pretty clear that this "realistic" advertising strategy is not actually founded in much realism.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00068214 = 12.4832 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: I am prepping to move cross-country, so I can't make hard commitments re: time this week or next; however I don't mind taking a look at phuctor's db use at all.
mircea_popescu: and perhaps the best illustration in history of what ~exactly~ "flag of convenience" means.
mircea_popescu: "hey, some 8 yo might have died for some reason - wouldn't you like this list of washington apointees to decide who can marry in pakistan and when and wqhy ?"
mircea_popescu: also what "stealing the stealing" is. check out gcc, and it's "mindshare". because that's what we're calling reddit votes now.
mircea_popescu: im kinda surprised we're not hearing all about faux-bitcoin "mindshare".
mircea_popescu: in other news, "you charging passerbys for the sexual use of your wife is very bad because she'll lose mindshare. should give her away for free, and then raise the children. experts agree!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00067906 = 7.3338 BTC [-]
trinque: didn't see it in logs, might've already been treated
trinque: gonna need a hashtag for this shit; it's trending
ascii_field: trinque: usg will happily carpetbomb own subjects if it needs to.
trinque: I think it will behave ever more incoherently until it shakes apart entirely
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00068365 = 11.2337 BTC [+]
ascii_field: i mean, it was happily spreading microbes in own cities, as early as '60s
trinque: sure wasn't that in california somewhere (among others probably)
mircea_popescu: the important point about bombs is not the destruction. it's that they are loud and enforce in the recipient a taste of his own powerlessness.
mircea_popescu: i think i said it before, but anyway : the important thing about a beating isn't the actual beating, but the part that forces the recipient to internalise he has no recourse.
mircea_popescu: if you go kloink some dude on the street upside the head, he'll just think himself mistreated, go look for places to complain - the police station, the church, wherever.
mircea_popescu: he'll fantasize about being made whole, all that nonsense.
mircea_popescu: when you beat a slave, it is educative because she knows that this is strictly reality, and the only way out is internalised change.
mircea_popescu: so no, microbes can not be used as substitute for your original " usg will happily carpetbomb own subjects if it needs to." specifically because that one chief ingredient is missing.
trinque: the microbes were tested on people because they wanted to know the results
mircea_popescu: (this is also why the agreement wass in england that if hitler had in fact the resources and the will to continue bombing for six weeks he'd have won the war with britain.
trinque: speaks to maybe their sense of impunity but nothing else
mircea_popescu: not because "britain would have bene destroyed" per se.)
mircea_popescu: trinque note that, importantly, you also need a particular sort of helpless population. the afghani have been bombed pretty much constantly since the 70s, did nothing.
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: what about something like this
http://paste.lisp.org/display/154647, put a flag on sighup, put a couple of checks (i'm not sure if my guess as far as mainloop is correct) for the flag, do a stop the world snapshot. can have it running normally, periodically send kill -HUP ...
☟︎ trinque: because civilization is something which happens in the absence-of, not something which happened due to some particular mechanism of conditioning
trinque: you just prevent all the meanies from being mean, and then wealth and empire emerges
trinque: speaking of bombing, when does the Fed start buying stocks directly
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 16:57:22; *: btcdrak wonders where he can short Mike and Gavin's reputation which seem to be going down in flames along with the XT movement.
mircea_popescu: trinque the fed mostly owns privately issued paper anyway. mostly bond bundles, but most of them are tied to stocks (via banks) so in point of fact the fed owns atm ~118-122% or so of the entire us economy
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 53100 @ 0.00038573 = 20.4823 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 17:16:07; ascii_field: i can't help but wonder if someone is getting a red star pinned on his uniform in moscow, for having planted this bug
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 18:50:51; ascii_field: also mircea_popescu appears to have forgotten about mr stack and his programmatory llc ?
ben_vulpes: he also fought entrenched interests, and they won. as they do.
jurov: mircea's entrepreneur experience in 90's romania is germane to everything
jurov: here, too, practically gave up on income tax avoidance to this day
jurov: the govt.. and try make that up on VAT
jurov: and (completely lawful) nonrecognition of business expenses happens, too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.0006905 = 15.0874 BTC [+]
trinque: tax avoidance is a foolish move if you're dealing in their currency
☟︎☟︎ trinque: and if you're not, good job!
trinque: well, I should say, it is a move you ought to be prepared to back up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14806 @ 0.00068314 = 10.1146 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:07:20; ascii_field: people like this imho do not need mechanized 'bug tracking' machinery
hanbot: getting ready to implement something ben_vulpes?
ben_vulpes: since when have i implemented anything, hanbot?!
hanbot: it's a full day just following along the ml, honestly.
ben_vulpes: "every software development company eventually ends up writing their own issue tracker, time tracker, and billing system."
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 19:10:19; mike_c: but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"
ben_vulpes: work on this thing cannot be marshalled. must be self-organized, by the selves so involved.
ben_vulpes: hanbot: i once cooked up a wiki page on the topic. has since languished, rotted, died.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4744 @ 0.00067592 = 3.2066 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:21:22; phf: asciilifeform: what about something like this
http://paste.lisp.org/display/154647, put a flag on sighup, put a couple of checks (i'm not sure if my guess as far as mainloop is correct) for the flag, do a stop the world snapshot. can have it running normally, periodically send kill -HUP ...
hanbot: look on the bright side: at least people care enough to find the holes in your design.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:19:12; mircea_popescu: trinque note that, importantly, you also need a particular sort of helpless population. the afghani have been bombed pretty much constantly since the 70s, did nothing.
hanbot: hey, i have some of those too!
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:40:34; mircea_popescu: he also isn't germane.
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 23:10:57; trinque: tax avoidance is a foolish move if you're dealing in their currency
mircea_popescu: because maximally, we accidentally found a magic packet.
kakobrekla: magic packet that plugs the mains cable?
mircea_popescu: i have a mile of logs showing the behaviour without exception.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8366 @ 0.00068294 = 5.7135 BTC [+]
kakobrekla for a second thought magick packet rebooted phuctor
mircea_popescu: and no stack's not fucking germane. he was trying to insulate HIS INCOME. i was discussing optimizing YOUR EXPENDITURE. not like items.
☟︎☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.00067926 = 3.0227 BTC [-]
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