log☇︎
49 entries in 0.163s
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, for the linguist interested in the natural evolution of alphabetic language into hieroglyphic, such as both egyptian and chinese naturally ended up in the shit after being used as languages for long enough, tironian notes provide the necessary bridge)
mircea_popescu: i suppose older writers told it in terms of "the shame", "l'embarass". obects that exist have to populate the whole array ; whereas objects that do not exist get away with natural-language sparse existence
mircea_popescu: natural language, however, ablates the trees for "convenience" so to speak, ie, uses commonly what's known in computing as sparse trees. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: the disadvantages of natural language.
mircea_popescu: ie, while transistor is not natural language semantic unit, isn't it machine language semantic unit ?
mircea_popescu: we can't so assume, because natural language has no definite meaning.
mircea_popescu: tu quoque, have spent time and effort doing all sorts of things with your life, none of which are bad or wrong per se. yet it never occured to you "must learn language" in any effectual sense. this'd be a natural occurence though, wouldn't you say ? what disocurred it for you ? how come you went in all the rooms in the palace but one ?
mircea_popescu: "Hermeneutics, a branch of continental European philosophy concerned with human understanding and the interpretation of written texts, offers insights that may contribute to the understanding of meaning, translation, architectures for natural language understanding, and even to the methods suitable for scientific inquiry in AI. After briefly reviewing the historical development of hermeneutics as a method of interpretation, t
mircea_popescu: whole fucking natural language is nothing beyhond "add aix^i terms until the damned P has only one real root."
mircea_popescu: "in natural languages, we are used to context. indeed, contextual meaning is what makes natural languages natural. we have `list' as a verb, and we have `list' as a noun. we have `listless' as an adjective describing something (like a programming language) that does not have lists, and an adjective describing someone who is sort of permanently tired. when we need to disambiguate, we do so with more words."
mircea_popescu: (but since we're on it -- the enduring interest in obfuscated-c is strictly this, "let us try and write a novel in orthogonal language ; this should be done in c because it's very much not orthogonal". became a self-recursing joke, that the practitioners don't even properly understand, just sorta-feel. BECAUSE they talk about it in natural languages.)
mircea_popescu: and all this goes right into that older thread of ambiguity, orthogonality and language -- you can never make a language that's orthogonal and ~useful~ in the natural sense. let alone "that anyone'd want to use". ☟︎
mircea_popescu: code is not natural language. code is a highly structured, deliberately limited-expressive form of language. what is said re http://trilema.com/2010/hai-sa-studiem-gramatica-impreuna/#selection-99.0-99.995 goes triple for code
mircea_popescu: also why eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-07#1711281 and that whole discussion with "only value of natural language is its ambiguity" and so on. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really, because there's no such thing as orthogonality in natural language. that's a property of a correctly constructed theorem ("let it have no overlapping lemmas") and therefore relevant in computing.
mircea_popescu: natural language is useless for any serious rational purpose without endless washing and starching. math does not suffer from the same problem.
mircea_popescu: natural language dictionaries are usually in the 100k symbols range ; however natural languages altogether are very large graphs, and i'd venture in the yottabyte range.
mircea_popescu: here's a view that may help alf : natural language is the summarized http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581451 calculated over something like 10*5 * 10*7 * 50*24*365*50 ~played~ instances of prisoner's dilemma. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: Framedragger we need no such thing, "0" means the same in the language of the commutative ring R as "nill" means in the natural language above.
mircea_popescu: respectively = natural language DWIM keyword.
mircea_popescu: but yeah, this is a pretty good model. "natural language is just like a computer language that had no // or quotations." "so how do i know magic strings, and comments, from code ?" "your mother."
mircea_popescu: so basically you're saying natural language works because interpretable rather than compiled ?
mircea_popescu: that is the idea, yes. but the other idea is that it's not safe to use more than a few hundred words because natural language usage does not normally distribute. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "CHICAGO, IL – November 10, 2015 – Narrative Science, the leader in advanced natural language generation for the enterprise, today announced the launch of Quill for Anti-Money Laundering (AML). According to recent research from KPMG, spending in North America to combat money-laundering activities has risen by 71 percent over the past three years and is predicted to keep increasing."
mircea_popescu: "natural language" isn't even defined.
mircea_popescu: (yes, i confess, mp doesn't generally use natural language "as it is", but "as it should be", like any serious autist. it's wonder anything i say's comprehensible to any degree)
mircea_popescu: we complain about the meagre attempts at natural language shanonizing , but what of the poor computers ?
mircea_popescu: it deliberately and constructively is NOT natural language.
mircea_popescu: a shannonizer is a formalisation, but not of natural language.
mircea_popescu: natural language "ambiguity" is a machine problem, not a human problem.
mircea_popescu: "oh, i also built natural language ai"
mircea_popescu: i don't write any c, either, or c++. i've never written either java or javascript. i sometimes to a little bash, and always to dig up natural language strings in natural language dialects. or otherwise mess the mup.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, until such a time as natural language works for coding, there won't be the "evil ai" whatever guy's worried about.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, because orlovignorance is like the gift that keeps on giving : english is "not spelled like pronounced" for the exact any other natural language (including ones that believe quite delusionally that they are, like romanian) is not : this allows for a variety of disjunct speakers to at least use the same writing.
mircea_popescu: the unrigurousness of natural language is fundamentally useful here. you can ask about this without being able to define this.
mircea_popescu: y u not know natural language!
mircea_popescu: this is not the case in any natural language, poetry exists anywhere.
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform has seen this said about more than one obscure natural language, it always seems to be a reflection of the linguist's ineptitude, in practice. << quite. it's not true of inuit languages any more it's true of russian.
mircea_popescu: punkman i believe it'd be the proposition that words work unequivocally and logic may be applied to natural language constructs.
mircea_popescu: "at mit, they made this self-learning machine which would try to make deductions sylogistically on a dictionary of natural language constructs
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan that's the beauty of natural language vs math.
mircea_popescu: i think you underestimate the majorly powerful computer natural language is.
mircea_popescu: they all start as natural language constructs
mircea_popescu: whenever a player has read a natural language word (ie, from the dictionary) out of the string (exact match, no mixing of letters or anything scrabble-ish) he now has that word.
mircea_popescu: each player has a pre-given "Table" consisting of a number of natural language poems. these are actual literature.
mircea_popescu: the game board consists of an endless set of strings, which all start as natural language constructs and are "decayed" by bit flipping by an actual rng.
mircea_popescu: something natural language will never be.
mircea_popescu: natural language does not allow specification, and most fields of interest for humans do not allow formal language.
mircea_popescu: kleeck there's always going to be some edge. natural language is what it is.