⏐︎ 16417
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so is the "fake kidnapped kid" story the result of "boy telling school what happened"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Indeed.
mircea_popescu: or is it the result of phone interception -> police telling school to ask kid -> kid not denying convincingly
asciilifeform: http://vocore.io/wiki/index << wants to be a node.
assbot: VoCore | A coin-sized Linux computer with wifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnPbMx )
asciilifeform: ^ 32MB. and fuck, that ought to be enough for a bitcoin node
mircea_popescu: it ought.
asciilifeform: chinese mips.
asciilifeform: http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/04/28/15-asiarf-awm002-awm003-wi-fi-modules-run-openwrt-expose-gpios << similar, but more mass-produced
assbot: $15 AsiaRF AWM002 & AWM003 Wi-Fi Modules Run OpenWRT, Expose GPIOs ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnPrLq )
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: my 0.7.2 node took 2 or 3 weeks to full sync << no he's right, it's what it used to be.
asciilifeform not thrilled with the wireless thing, but it seems to be inescapable in small embedded crapatrons
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what happens if you short the antenna of a wifi device ?
mircea_popescu: fixed ?
asciilifeform: you don't actually have to open & mutilate, just don't include it in kernel
asciilifeform: node is not a reactor, if thing sits on bus and listens for doomsday signal from enemy, it'll do what?
mircea_popescu: no, no
mircea_popescu: if it has any magic packet business, it'll come wiereless.
asciilifeform: then pull the internal antenna
mircea_popescu: short all the things!
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform not thrilled with the wireless thing, but it seems to be inescapable in small embedded crapatrons << There's probably a role somewhere for a kind of node with it. Plugged in at "Free Wifi" coffee shop or library. connects to open network, changes MAC address when booted from network. Has script to handled shrink wrap license pages when encountered.
asciilifeform: how it will behave shorted will depend on whether designer bothered with safety
asciilifeform: experiment.
asciilifeform: wireless cards could in principle be used for forming local meshes, etc. but this is for other folks to study
asciilifeform: and ideally you'd want one that doesn't dma
mircea_popescu: writing a proper wifi thing for the new world is not on this year's plate.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: great tech, in principle.
asciilifeform: except the obvious pill is to forget the 802.11 crap and use straight sdr
asciilifeform: ignoring 'spectrum property' and spread/hopping far and wide, as modern mil. radios do.
mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: exactly that. a pointed disdain of any rule and regulation not gpg signed as so much crud.
mircea_popescu: !up HlySht
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39243 @ 0.00040527 = 15.904 BTC [+]
the_scourge: asciilifeform: that vocore was just crowdfunded recently. i think they fullfilled initial orders sometime in the past year. i didn't know they were mips!!
asciilifeform: RT5350.
the_scourge: uh that's a wireless chip? i thought we're talking about cpu. i.e. mips
asciilifeform: https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Ralink_RT5350
assbot: Ralink RT5350 - WikiDevi ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnSR0J )
asciilifeform: it's one of those all-in-one soc things.
the_scourge: >wireless cards could in principle be used for forming local meshes, etc. but this is for other folks to study < as long as cryptography is secure, then it's not urgent. but very interesting
the_scourge: asciilifeform++ thanks, very interesting bit of kit
asciilifeform: the_scourge: wai, wat?! if secure crypto were unknown, it then would be more urgent?
the_scourge: um if we had no way to secure comms on the wild internet, where layers 1-4 can be listened to by demotists (i wouldn't mind if it was a monarch),
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151800 @ 0.00040542 = 61.5428 BTC [+] {3}
the_scourge: then the only alternative would be meshes
asciilifeform: the_scourge: but wireless links between streets would then be secure ?
the_scourge: and WoT to eject untrustworthy nodes
the_scourge: if it's los, yes
the_scourge: my guns are all los too
asciilifeform: secure los exists only in vacuum
the_scourge: :) funny how that works
asciilifeform: and not in the vacuum of space, either - there are loose H2 atoms bouncing there
asciilifeform: might reflect.
the_scourge: meh
mircea_popescu: i wonder if one could kickstart an experimental vehicle for space vacuum filtration to extract gold and other rare metals.
the_scourge: thats and acceptable threat model considering there are HUMANS involved that can fuck up and give away the keys to te kingdom
asciilifeform: from low orbit usg junk ?
mircea_popescu: just talk around the math involved, hire the people out of work once gavin gets forgotten about.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, from cranial junk
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: from cranial junk - can extract anything at all.
asciilifeform: even unobtainium.
the_scourge: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69 < this summarizes nicely every smoke break rant i had at the junior devs onsite today
assbot: Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnUThj )
mircea_popescu: on site of what ?
the_scourge has been desperately trying to avoid learning scheme/Qi for years, fearing never being able to hold a 'productive' contract again
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: client site
the_scourge: the one that got ddos'd
mircea_popescu: client provides its own devs ?
the_scourge: there are hundreds
the_scourge: the team working for me has maybe a dozen and then a massive team in manila that another contractor manages. it's ... depressing
the_scourge: asciilifeform: you know that mark tarver guy you linked to, are you familiar with his Qi and Chen languages?
asciilifeform: yes.
asciilifeform: wasn't impressed.
the_scourge: if Qi is anything like nix, i would love it forever
the_scourge: anywhere i can go to get some honest opinions on his work then?
asciilifeform: iirc tarver eventually gave up and went off to hell knows where.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: there was, at least in the past, a 'google groups' thing for it.
the_scourge: :( he's just on a downer!
asciilifeform: may still be there.
the_scourge: no, i want critics, not fanboys
the_scourge: did you do a writeup? i've grepped for such to no avail :(
asciilifeform: did not.
asciilifeform: did not find it interesting enough to bother with a writeup.
asciilifeform not a fan of 'pattern matching' languages a la prolog where the operator has no possible way of having the faintest clue what an operation will cost
the_scourge: right but that's only tru of Qi, not Shen
asciilifeform: shen had pattern-matching.
the_scourge wonders if a 'pattern matching' language could even be a functional language
asciilifeform: and even a built-in prolog!
asciilifeform: just about everything pushed as 'pure functional' (haskell, standard ml, etc.) to a large extent operate via pattern matching
the_scourge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shen_(programming_language) < "an integrated fully functional Prolog" hrm you're right about the latter
assbot: Shen (programming language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnWkfM )
asciilifeform: don't take my word for this, look at how they are implemented
the_scourge learned nix over christmas and thought about learning haskell
the_scourge: i'll have to look at the haskell implementation
danielpbarron: here's a rough draft of pogo instructions: http://danielpbarron.com/pogo-howto.txt / criticisms welcomed!
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnWB2c )
the_scourge: although a few things came up when i started looking into it that turned me off haskell
asciilifeform: the tell-tale symptom of a programming language that does far too much behind the scenes is when its users seldom, if ever, study the implementation
asciilifeform: writing a (demented but functional) c compiler and (very old-fashioned, to the point of braindamage) lisp interp. used to be standard homework assignments
the_scourge: is perl a pretty good example of what you mean?
asciilifeform: one such
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: this gives you a rather heavyweight linux - with systemd, even.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: eventual goal, i dare say, is a fully-automated reflasher that drops in something sane.
danielpbarron: yeh i'd like to use something other than arch but that's what i've figured out for now
the_scourge: asciilifeform: would https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_in_Small_Pieces be a good place to start with such excercises?
assbot: Lisp in Small Pieces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnX3xo )
asciilifeform: 'buildroot' is the ticket
asciilifeform: the_scourge: christian quinniec's book?
danielpbarron: yeah the instructions at this point are only for advanced users :/
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yes
asciilifeform: heavy but very enlightening work.
danielpbarron: oh man is it!
danielpbarron: <3 gentoo
the_scourge: danielpbarron: nixos has a pretty good balance of minimal and predictable (even for noobs), have you considered that?
danielpbarron: i get the feeling they intentionally leave things out of their guides to force the user to figure it out
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> danielpbarron: eventual goal, i dare say, is a fully-automated reflasher that drops in something sane. << quite
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'NixOS 14.12 “Caterpillar” has been released, the third stable release branch. It brings Linux 3.14, systemd 217, Glibc 2.20, KDE 4.14.1, and much more.'
asciilifeform: the_scourge: trololol!
mircea_popescu: in any case purge that systemd atrocity , as a matter of principle if not necessarily practicality.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron has probably noticed that pieces of 'systemd' crash every few hrs. on that box
danielpbarron: i've noticed that it needs constant supervision, yes
mircea_popescu: it's only to make use of the "much faster boot"
the_scourge: asciilifeform: if you're implying it's not lightweight, only systemd and the kernel are installed off the bat. and some guys have done work on a systemdless setup
asciilifeform: at any rate, it pretty much has to be a 'buildroot' script in the end. so as everything ends up in a ro-mountable flash image.
mircea_popescu: how is poettering to sell a shitty re-implementation of yarvin's pile of crap ? PROCLAIM LOUDLY THAT IT BOOTS FASTLY.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: we are discussing an embedded system with 128m each of ram and eeprom.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that a) not really and b) a machine's not really supposed to boot anyway
danielpbarron: i don't care how fast it boot since it shouldn't have to do that more than once (depending on the stability of your electric)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what was the curtis yarvin brand of systemd called ? i forget ?
mircea_popescu: quux ?
asciilifeform: mr mold did not, last i heard, ever publish anything analogous to systemd
mircea_popescu: urbit
mircea_popescu: o ya ? what's urbit ?
asciilifeform: had a perverse functional-programming master's thesis disguised as an open source project, yes
asciilifeform: urbit.
the_scourge: urbit is yarvin's thing
mircea_popescu: https://www.popehat.com/2013/12/06/nock-hoon-etc-for-non-vulcans-why-urbit-matters/ << lulzy vintage.
asciilifeform: (for n00bz: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1390 )
assbot: Loper OS » Of Decaying Urbits. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnXY0T )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indulge me : tries to take over everything ? check. crashes all the time ? check. two matches, good enough.
asciilifeform followed project for a while before it was publicly advertised
mircea_popescu: this is even skipping the "ambitious nobody proponent with a history of failure up to that point"
asciilifeform: it actually has a closer resemblance to the perverse programming languages discussed earlier in this thread, than to systemd
mircea_popescu: i would imagine alsa is uncontroversially a massive failure on poettering's scoreboard.
asciilifeform: alsa almost works.
mircea_popescu: exactly my point.
the_scourge: he did the other one
mircea_popescu: stuff that almost works for its lifetime is worse than no stuff.
the_scourge: alsa was what he tried to replace
mircea_popescu: iirc there existed an alsa as a kernel module
mircea_popescu: but then pulseaudio swallowed it.
mircea_popescu: i guess it'd be sort of dress-rehearsal for systemd
asciilifeform: iirc there are not yet poetteringisms in the mainline kernel.
mircea_popescu: "Even in 2014, you cannot use PulseAudio for competetive gaming on Linux. Not that it matters anyway. Even Valve abandoned Linux."
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is a major point. the death of the linux is not exactly unrelated toi the major disappointment of the money makers.
mircea_popescu: people tried to get games going on the platform, 2007-8ish to about 2012. it failed.
asciilifeform: not entirely unconnected with the gpu vendors' behaviour.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46969 @ 0.00039543 = 18.573 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: not entirely, no.
mircea_popescu: also not entirely unconnected with open source peace and love nitwits who far from knowing which necks to squeeze,
mircea_popescu: don't even realise squeezing necks is what gets things done.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, yes, it seems the alsa | pulseaudio difference was in fact bitterly preserved. one of those underground wars people like me tend to embarass themselves by not noticing.
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/turbotax-stops-filing-state-tax-returns-due-to-massive-fraud/
assbot: TurboTax Stops Filing State Tax Returns Due To Massive Fraud | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnZ2lA )
mircea_popescu: o.O
kakobrekla: prolly nobody cares but i just checked for fun whats the pogo cost in europe; its 55 dorra.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeah they run out of stock, not looking like they want to replenish it either.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i distinctly recall seeing this figure here earlier
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 17300 @ 0.00093104 = 16.107 BTC [-] {39}
kakobrekla: ah ok
kakobrekla: must have missed it
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i've been looking into alternatives
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: thus far, found nothing remotely approaching the bang/buck ratio of pogo
asciilifeform: further suggesting that the latter was a 'loss leader' all along
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "breech" => breach
kakobrekla: only true bezzle can provide
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ah, that again.
BingoBoingo: fxd
mircea_popescu: dude i really like this qntra thing. about 1/3 of what i hated about the obsolete press were mistakes. being able to go hey x, Y! makes me all fucking warm and fuzzy inside.
BingoBoingo: lol
kakobrekla: well personalized news is personalized, doh
BingoBoingo just pines for the day breech will be the correct version more often on qntra.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-BK002009.jpg?size=67&uid=a019bd8c-0800-4484-9de2-d5a9a6551b15 << breech
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xDD3js )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22313 @ 0.00040554 = 9.0488 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That's a nice one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171057 @ 0.00040832 = 69.846 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: turbotax article << see also last night's thread re: identity fraud in usa.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's what inspired taking the piece this direction
BingoBoingo: On day the phenomenon is in the logs getting discussed, the next it's the angle used to disect a fraud in the news.
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: win-win as they say.
BingoBoingo: Reading informs writing. Scholarship 101
the_scourge: asciilifeform: where would you recommend someone starting with lispy languages?
BingoBoingo: brb, going on a bender this weekend.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: depends on your objective
the_scourge: first is to be able to continue (at least for a while) doing my consulting without shooting myself from boredome
cazalla: ;;later tell bingoboingo fixed 2 spelling mistakes last paragraph
gribble: The operation succeeded.
the_scourge: that mark tarver article really resonated with me. that pretty much described me to a T.. and still does. it's actually why i ended up doing non-STEM degrees: there is no lack of boredom when you're lost in a library
the_scourge: second, i'm REALLY REALLY interested in lisp machines
the_scourge: so, something minimal i guess? scheme is used for embedded stuff i've seen. guile is interesting just 'cause the gnu nix clone uses it
asciilifeform: -which- lisp machine ?
the_scourge: personally i'm interested in one that hasn't been made yet
mircea_popescu: ... you want to code for a machine that doesn't exist ?!
asciilifeform: the_scourge: get peter kogge's book, then
asciilifeform: the_scourge: none of the others will be of much help.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: thanks. historically all i know about is really the AI lab stuff. i went through a phase where i read the jargon book and some more 'original' sources about the AI labs. but this was almost 20 years ago
the_scourge: asciilifeform: Architecture of Symbolic Computers < this is the one?
asciilifeform: it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163941 @ 0.00041127 = 67.424 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform lived in free-standing bldg since may, and only now thought to put it to proper use: plug in subwoofer & setting to max.
the_scourge: same thing here. i love playing the piano as loud as possible :D
the_scourge: other than 2 houses across the road, there are no neighbors for over 6 miles in all directions
the_scourge is thinking perhaps he could slowly transition his consulting to clojure development and keep his existing clients
trinque: glorious clojure
asciilifeform not a fan
trinque: asciilifeform: too much "magic under hood" as you said?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54212 @ 0.00041243 = 22.3587 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: trinque: if you actually care, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42 and http://www.loper-os.org/?p=374
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1Do48hD )
assbot: Loper OS » Of Weighty Matters, or Thumbs Still Down for Clojure. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Do46pS )
asciilifeform: trinque: the former was, until recently (and possibly now) among the top 'google' hits for the subject.
trinque: "I find Clojure revolting.
trinque: "
trinque: dis gon be gud
asciilifeform: if reading the comments, skip straight to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-3383
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1Do4lkZ )
asciilifeform: short version: 'clojure' is to, say, 'common lisp', as 'ripple' is to bitcoin.
asciilifeform: a bauble pushed by unrepentantly lying chumpatronicists.
asciilifeform: it was actually my first exposure to that kind of thing.
trinque: read both, you're right
asciilifeform: you know, the folks who walk in with a turd and explain to you that it's 'just the same' as a sausage, but 'more up with the times'
trinque: what I end up using has a lot to do with "what can I fart a website out in"
trinque: at least in daily work
trinque: I've considered trying just sbcl on one side and parenscript on the other
trinque: but yeah, sausage... turd...
asciilifeform: parenscript is just a lib for any ordinary cl
asciilifeform: this whole 'www' thing never made sense to me. if you can open a socket, you can crap out html
asciilifeform: so it alone can't possibly justify the use of turdlangs.
trinque: just depends on how one earns daily bread
asciilifeform: why does the socket have to be opened using $turdlang ?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: did you ever use a genera machine?
trinque: what I'd like is a situation where I'm writing the same language in both a browser and on the server
asciilifeform: the_scourge: certainly.
asciilifeform: !s symbolics 3620
assbot: 9 results for 'symbolics 3620' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=symbolics+3620
asciilifeform: !s opengenera
assbot: 7 results for 'opengenera' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=opengenera
trinque: I've seen clojure/clojurescript, cl/parenscript, haskell/fey (and a few others)
asciilifeform: trinque: this leads to using $retardlang on server end
trinque: sure, hail satan and pass the node
the_scourge goes to find out what is opengenera and where has it been hiding
asciilifeform: the_scourge: it's been hiding in northern virginia.
trinque: my career started during web 2.0 :p
asciilifeform: and a small piece in cambridge, ma
asciilifeform: the_scourge: don't be fooled by the word 'open'
trinque: asciilifeform: does cl fall under $retardlang too?
trinque: ye gods, no firm ground to stand upon
asciilifeform: trinque: how do you propose to have the browser end run cl?
trinque: doesn't the parenscript compiler eat cl and poop js?
asciilifeform: trinque: so you're actually using js. you will notice this, because the cl subset that can be thus eaten/shat is microscopic
trinque: ah
trinque: asciilifeform: same situation as reaching out to Java in clojure then
asciilifeform: the_scourge: the 'open' in 'opengenera' is an archaic 1980s usg-ism. it simply refers to the fact that a product features industry-standard protocols like tcp/ip and does not require you to buy the entire universe you live in from one particular vendor.
the_scourge is back, dissapointed
the_scourge: so it's just genera 2.0?
asciilifeform: has nothing whatsoever to do with source being publicly available, or the product being distributed free of charge
asciilifeform: technically symbolics had no name for their os until opengenera was put on the market.
the_scourge did find this: https://github.com/ynniv/opengenera while he was gone. seems worth of bookmarking for later
assbot: ynniv/opengenera · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzmA77 )
the_scourge: oh, i thought it was just called genera
asciilifeform: the_scourge: that's merely a script for setting up the unofficial amd64 binary to run under a modern linux.
asciilifeform: the binary is a w4r3z blob, and occasionally distributed with the pirated source.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70158 @ 0.00041298 = 28.9739 BTC [+]
trinque has very little idea where to start in terms of choosing a sane programming environment with which to make bezzlars
asciilifeform: the source - not for the amd64 blob.
asciilifeform: but for the original os
asciilifeform: there is no public source for opengenera (either for dec alpha or amd64)
asciilifeform: nor is it included with a purchase.
the_scourge: what do they charge for a copy
asciilifeform: when i bought - $5k usd.
asciilifeform: call, ask.
the_scourge: just when i was starting to think esr and rms didn't have a point. maybe they did
asciilifeform: the source for the dec/amd64 emulator is not sold.
the_scourge: exactly
asciilifeform: the_scourge: in the days of rms, symbolics corp. sold machines. the cheapest started at about the cost of a single-propeller airplane.
asciilifeform: 5k in modern american money is pocket change in comparison.
the_scourge: actually i take it back, the problems here were probably not market-based, but more cultural (and lack of appropriate customers)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i'm not saying it's exorbant - just expressing dissapointment
trinque grows to suspect that there is not a programming environment asciilifeform likes
the_scourge: trinque: he like vimscript. a lot! :)
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: wat
asciilifeform has never seen 'vimscript'
trinque: tis butt
trinque: little imperative scripty guy, nothing special
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 177500 @ 0.00041335 = 73.3696 BTC [+] {4}
trinque: I'd put more money on asciilifeform being an emacs guy, but not because he likes emacs
asciilifeform: no need to guess
asciilifeform: it's all in the logs.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69 < broken link
assbot: Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kznq3N )
the_scourge: this works: https://web.archive.org/web/20080223010634/http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~ejones/writing/systemsresearch.html
asciilifeform: the_scourge: loads fine.
asciilifeform: aha pike's
the_scourge: no, the link to .. yah
asciilifeform: when i explain to folks why i dislike programming on available systems, i sometimes use example that it is rather like being a fellow who likes gardening, but there was a thermonuclear war not long ago, and you gotta sift the soil with sapper's spade in one hand, geiger in the other, and there won't be much sunlight to be had either.
kakobrekla: !b 1 ✂︎
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3MXCMW1.txt )
trinque: http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+emacs << some lols in here
assbot: 36 results for 'from:asciilifeform emacs' - #bitcoin-assets search
trinque: I recently mapped my f keys to load projects in emacs and appropriate window layouts in stumpwm
trinque: rules.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: can i get a blow by blow on what historical event was this allegorical thermonuclear war?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: no.
asciilifeform: it would be either a crock of shit, or book-length
trinque: the_scourge: he already blogged it all
the_scourge: "I estimate that 90-95% of the work in Plan 9 was directly or indirectly to honor externally imposed standards." < wow that is really sad... and ... is there a solution?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: yes, there is.
asciilifeform: !s year zero
assbot: 28 results for 'year zero' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=year+zero
the_scourge: needs quotes :) looking now
the_scourge: soviet open hardware? wut really?
the_scourge: !s gossip
assbot: 49 results for 'gossip' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gossip
asciilifeform: 'more things in heaven and earth... than are dreamt of in your philosophy.'
the_scourge: and that search needs a d at the end ^ (for anyone following along at home)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i don't know what 'things' are, and i don't know what philosophy means
the_scourge: *'philosophy'
asciilifeform: if you recognize neither the words, nor where they apply here, i'm powerless to help.
the_scourge: is gossipd this psycd-like symetrically encrypted UDP IM protocol?
asciilifeform: 'year zero' simply refers to a reset, where you forget that a given field even has a history (except as an encyclopaedia of what not to do.)
the_scourge: but then doesn't it ruin the excercise?
the_scourge: intuition is destroyed. creativity ruined. because we're tyring so hard to not do what we are misconceited as what went wrong?
the_scourge: speaking of greenfield, what was the reason for greenfielding a re-implementation of psycd? (assuming gossipd has already been written)
asciilifeform: what exercise.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: because the similarity is superficial.
asciilifeform: psycd is a cancerous monstrosity.
the_scourge: well it depends on which implementation you're speaking of
asciilifeform: any and all.
the_scourge: there are a dozen i think. 2 of them named psycd
asciilifeform: the name normally refers to the ancient thing based on 'gnunet'.
the_scourge: you sound confident. what if i told you there was a psyc daemon implemented in 15 lines of common lisp? :)
asciilifeform: post.
asciilifeform: the 15 lines also contain rsa?
asciilifeform: the socket handler?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: bullshit is not welcome in #b-a.
the_scourge: no, sorry i wasn't bullshitting. i'm just trying to point out implementation vs architecture
the_scourge: 'Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.' (naggum, who else. http://www.xach.com/na < funny, that's one of the reason i've avoided ☟︎
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzpEAa )
the_scourge: i assumed it was poor design and useless academics who'd never had to do a hard day's work in their lives. perhaps it is a shit test?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: poor design for folks used to ibm's (yes, originally their) traditional key chords.
asciilifeform: yes, it is possible to bolt them onto emacs. but few people do.
trinque: evil mode + leader bindings
trinque: that's the stuff
the_scourge: well i'm paying myself paternity leave coming up soon so i'll learn emacs. haven't had a chance for a bit of time in a while
asciilifeform: most folks who lack the mental flexibility to relearn five or six key commands, would not benefit from emacs, and (if they are aware of its existence at all) - know it. and avoid.
trinque: space as leader has done wonders for my hands
the_scourge: trinque: thanks i'll try that
trinque: <esc> <space> f -> C-x C-f
trinque: I also have esc as right alt
trinque: easily thumb-pressed on this keyboard
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i get remapping caps and ctrl, but it still means you're having to combine keystrokes which is always painful to watch
trinque: chords really suck
asciilifeform: painful to watch << such as... ?
the_scourge: as opposed to combinations which are clearly natural. they are idiomatic so the brain groks them more, and the fingers do them easier
the_scourge: any time you are holding down one key and pressing another is painful. even the shift is an example of this
the_scourge: i've noticed you don't capitalize a lot of the time
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816658 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 22:56:02; asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'
the_scourge: no one does
the_scourge: ever.
the_scourge: because, it's painful
asciilifeform: no.
asciilifeform: because slow.
the_scourge: you type all the letters in your words
the_scourge: never seen you say 'cause or 'c u later'
trinque: leader bindings are as fast as you type
the_scourge: er, whatever
trinque: and faster than chords because no stretch to the modifier
the_scourge: trinque: yes, i agree
asciilifeform: if you have healthy hands, decent input devices, it is possible to do such surprising things as speaking in complete words.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: which proves my point
asciilifeform: what was the point?
the_scourge: complete words = idioms. leaders. sequences.
the_scourge: they are not painful
asciilifeform: that chords are intrinsically unhealthy somehow?
the_scourge: well i've seen a lot of gnarled old hands. all of them told me it was chording that did it
asciilifeform: see naggum's observation.
the_scourge: yes, these were people who had always had it remapped
asciilifeform: ipso facto poorly.
trinque: meh bindings are pretty personal
trinque: who cares if it works
asciilifeform: or rather, this is not unlike the observation that everybody at the cemetary is there 'because' they breathed air.
asciilifeform: yes, technically - they are.
the_scourge: bindings are a really personal thing. i just hope that i can learn emacs and manage to use leaders for everything, that's all :)
trinque: nubbins' next book will be one of asciilifeform's koans
the_scourge: i need to head off... this weekend i'm going to look into the parallella. i'm curious if a symbolics machine could be implemented in it's FPGA
trinque: the_scourge: cya
asciilifeform: !rate the_scourge -2 dear usg, please send better clowns; the cheap ones are growing tiresome.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/079b56c48360dc3d
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.the_scourge.-2:872c8508e60de91180b0972e6d07b54ecd8a3362dca96a9a958e64487de13a3f
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for the_scourge from 1 to -2 with note: dear usg, please send better clowns; the cheap ones are growing tiresome.
asciilifeform: ^ and the_scourge, don't bother pm-ing. killfiled.
danielpbarron had a similar feeling
asciilifeform: i hope they send him off to wherever they demoted ninjashogun to.
trinque: asciilifeform: think he's reading logs and fishing?
asciilifeform: !down the_scourge
asciilifeform: trinque: i suppose anyone here who hasn't killfiled, will learn the answer.
asciilifeform: i - can't be bothered.
mircea_popescu: well, job's a job. back in whatever on a new one.
asciilifeform: their 'watercooler' conversations must be golden.
asciilifeform: the last straw was the bugger 'shannonizing' my www. i wonder if there's some 'person' that this genuinely works on.
asciilifeform: 'omg1111!!111 i am so interested in xxxxxxxx tell me moar'
asciilifeform: note to future stooges, moles: take some actual care to be distinguishable from comment spam on our www sites
mircea_popescu idly wonders what'd a world look like where gavinesque insanities actually made sense. "have everyone's coffee purchases validated by everyone and preserved forever".
asciilifeform: interesting idiots are sometimes (temporarily) tolerated. tedious idiots - never.
mircea_popescu: yottabytes all over, but perhaps something like nock (in principle, not what was proposed) ?
trinque: I try to only ask a few stupid questions a day :P
asciilifeform: even the nock stack posited local caching for trivialities
asciilifeform: rather than a global record of every 1+1.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but imagine data storage literally was not an issue.
asciilifeform: o(n) addition was also 'not an issue'
mircea_popescu: and global record of 1+1 was trivial. perhaps on a machine much akin to physical reality : the result of mixing milk and water is stored for everyone to see - they need but look
mircea_popescu: there's of course a finite number of photons that saw it, but w/e man.
asciilifeform: global record in the sense of every instance
mircea_popescu: interesting how qm actually clips the graph there huh.
asciilifeform: !s hashlife
assbot: 4 results for 'hashlife' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hashlife
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform technically speaking, the milk and water mixing IS recorded in ever yinstance.
asciilifeform: ^ compression of spacetime via 'memoization'. this is more or less how one would implement toy universes.
mircea_popescu: trinque i think the concern is to be approached on two lines, empirically. line 1) what % of queries constitute powerplays and b) what % of queries result in interesting education that a noob reading logs would benefit from. ☟︎
asciilifeform: there was even an old sf story which posited that various microscopic physical limit phenomena result from the emulator shaving cycles in this manner.
mircea_popescu: as 1 goes up and 2 goes down there's at some critical point after which a man is taking his voice in his hands.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly. in this sense, the ultimate engine/life form would be one that lives somehow off the shaving.
asciilifeform: like the bank thief who pockets rounding errors.
trinque: mircea_popescu: hard to get taught anything if you're fighting the teacher
trinque: well, taught what you're after
asciilifeform: (incidentally, american banks learned from the 'salami' case and now do it SOP.)
mircea_popescu: ayup
trinque: if I ever make it out of the gravity well I'd love to get an actual education.
mircea_popescu: actually i'm kinda half curious how many us based conf attendants discover at the border that the newly expanded tsa doth not agree their passport holds any value.
asciilifeform was actually rather surprised to be let out last time
trinque: my grandfather still gets hassled at the border for "american party" involvement back in the day
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron "You can throw out the packaging and manual; we won't be needing those." << gotta love the justifiable pride the most serene republic's flag elates out of people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24452 @ 0.0004145 = 10.1354 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: i should add more stuff like that so it isn't all command line copy paste
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: your 'pogo' booted from external devices without replacing uboot ?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mine - did not
danielpbarron: i followed the instructions on the archlinux page for pogo and it worked
danielpbarron: 'uboot' does not ring a bell
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: when thing powers up, it boots from the eeprom
asciilifeform: there is a boot partition there, containing an ancient version of 'uboot'
asciilifeform: (a kind of programmable bootloader, similar to 'lilo')
asciilifeform: the unit i have, had to be reflashed with a modern build of this, to boot from anywhere other than the kernel and root partitions in eeprom
danielpbarron: hm, mine was so easy to do i felt weird re-writing instructions for it
asciilifeform: ^ which can be rewritten easily
danielpbarron: i used brand new unused hard drives.. is it possible that has anything to do with it?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: nope
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but uboot is resident on the drive ?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: you installed arch to the drive and booted to it, didntcha
mircea_popescu: oh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: uboot is resident in the 128mb eeprom
asciilifeform: on pogo
asciilifeform: followed by a partition holding kernel
asciilifeform: followed by a similarly sized empty one
mircea_popescu: yeh he booted the drive. did you danielpbarron ?
asciilifeform: followed by root
asciilifeform: the root fs is a 'ubifs'
asciilifeform: (yet another fs optimized for fragile 'flash')
asciilifeform: dev: size erasesize name
asciilifeform: mtd0: 00200000 00020000 "u-boot"
asciilifeform: mtd1: 00300000 00020000 "uImage"
asciilifeform: mtd2: 00300000 00020000 "uImage2"
asciilifeform: mtd3: 00800000 00020000 "failsafe"
asciilifeform: mtd4: 07000000 00020000 "root"
asciilifeform: ^ layout
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: trinque: how do you propose to have the browser end run cl? << haha this i wanna see. clonqueror.
trinque: :( lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the cl rewrite of emacs, 'climacs', was almost usable
trinque: I-I just want to swim in a lake not filled with shit!
danielpbarron: the arch install occured on the pogo, if that's what you mean
trinque: but everything around me is a superfund site
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: yes, but it was able to boot from it after.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: so possibly you got a slightly more recent fw than i
mircea_popescu: any way to check fw vers ? other than popping unit ?
danielpbarron: yeah it rebooted with no extra work needed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when the thing warms up, it dumps uboot ver. to the serial console
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron can oyu check an report ?
asciilifeform: other than that, one can take a snapshot: dd if=/dev/mtd0 of=turd.bin
asciilifeform: and throw in favourite hexeditor
danielpbarron: one of the steps in the arch install might have done something to the built in flash; i'm not sure to be honest
danielpbarron: it had me download a script and run it
asciilifeform: wai wat!?!!
asciilifeform did no such thing
asciilifeform: so you did reflash. with hell knows what. lol
asciilifeform: dollars to doughnuts, danielpbarron had a normal pogo
mircea_popescu: what is the arch install and how did it end up imported in here ?
danielpbarron: when i searched the log for pogo, i found that linked
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was a public set of instructions for installing 'archlinux' for arm onto 'pogo'.
asciilifeform: i used the disk image from it
danielpbarron: i'm happy to experiment with alternatives
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: one ends up with a mindbogglingly-heavy ubuntu-style thing, complete with 'systemd'
mircea_popescu: okies, so basically he found a shortcut ?
asciilifeform: aha
danielpbarron: ya
asciilifeform: bash script that downloads and flashes in somebody's uboot
mircea_popescu: a shortcut through the mud
asciilifeform built the uboot from public sources
asciilifeform: using same crosscompiler as for everything else
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron for the sake of sanity, can you proceed closer to asciilifeform's original ?
danielpbarron: yes
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with shortcuts in principle, but this one hurts.
asciilifeform: who could even imagine, an 800K bootloader!
asciilifeform: there's a complete shell in there
asciilifeform: and tcp/ip stack...
asciilifeform: helps in resurrecting a totally b0rk3d machine, yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i had some toast earlier, the toaster:~$ said :L)
asciilifeform: (you can pump in a fresh kernel with tftp)
asciilifeform: http://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot
assbot: WebHome < U-Boot < DENX ... ( http://bit.ly/1ENeXeJ )
asciilifeform: ^ it
asciilifeform: used in perhaps 90% of the embedded net junk on the planet
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/#comment-112033 << and the perennial question.
assbot: Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ENf3mx )
asciilifeform: imho in the final turd we nuke it
asciilifeform: just have the thing load a straight linux kernel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124711 @ 0.00041574 = 51.8474 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "psycd is currently being refactored into a GNUnet service to run secushare on. The former psycd code is quite interesting, but currently unmaintained. "
mircea_popescu: am i a bad person for lulzing at this ?
mod6: i just passed block 168,001
mircea_popescu: mod6 took the whole day ?!
mod6: am now on block 168,011
mod6: ah, na.
mircea_popescu: hm
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was an attempt at something like tor.
mod6: i just got a chance to work on it again here now.
mircea_popescu: any idea what the hook was ?
mod6: i upgraded openssl
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: from what to what ?
mod6: root@debian-test:~# openssl version -a
mod6: OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014 ☟︎
mod6: from version...
asciilifeform picked a very arbitrary openssl
mod6: OpenSSL 0.9.8o
mod6: which was from the orig debian 6 iirc
mircea_popescu: uh that's like 2010 ?!
mircea_popescu: 2009 even ?
mod6: yeah.
mircea_popescu: sooooo... on account of bitcoind recompiled with new openssl, actual bitcoind compiled with actual openssl as of 2009 does not pass blocks in 2011 ☟︎
mod6: it's old. this is what was included with ben's script to configure deb6.
mircea_popescu: whereas if you compile itwith more 2011 ish openssl itdoes ?
mircea_popescu: this is pretty massive if true. mod6 do you feel like testing for this insanity specifically ?
asciilifeform did not test with anything other than the shortly post-heartbleed turdball specified in 'portatronic'
mod6: so far. it's really weird still though, because i wasn't having this problem before. and we've always been using an old ssl.
mircea_popescu: might be a bug specific to the 9.8o but then that doesn't explain how all the others worked
asciilifeform: actually
asciilifeform: idea
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am willing to bet there are over 1kbugs in this thing. all distinct.
asciilifeform: let's rip out openssl in the simplest way ☟︎
asciilifeform: roll in the five or six pieces that are actually used.
asciilifeform: so, for example, we can see what they are.
asciilifeform: (with naked eye)
mod6: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=KgQwrzYM
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ENfL3p )
asciilifeform: and then send them to hell
asciilifeform: and substitute in sanity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you be specific rather than rhetoric ? i dun follow
asciilifeform: specifically,
mod6: so thats ^^^ my version of openssl on my aws instance, and i've sync'd successfully at lesat a dozen times in the last 4 months on there
asciilifeform: we snip out the #include <openssl/......>
mircea_popescu: sigs won't verify.
asciilifeform: that's step 1
mircea_popescu: oh oh oh i see
asciilifeform: step 2 is crypto.cpp/h
mircea_popescu: this is actually a worthy plan.
mod6: and now wedges for some crazy reason. now I'm gonna upgrade to 1.0.1g there as well (just upgraded my deb6 on vbox vm to start with) and try to pass the wedge too.
asciilifeform: where the missing routines are then placed.
mircea_popescu: course also what the wunderbar vc boys are trying to do with their NOVEL inmplemetnation
mircea_popescu: you recall, the one that's so well tested apud gmaxwel
asciilifeform: i must confess
asciilifeform: that i was unable to make myself read the whole thing
mircea_popescu: openssl ?
asciilifeform: gavin's 0.10
mircea_popescu: oh
mircea_popescu: nono, this is planned. lemme fish it out
asciilifeform: dove in once or twice to fish out the orphanage burn thing
asciilifeform: which had to be mutilated in six different ways to bolt onto 0.5.3
mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rrxq7/on_why_010s_release_notes_say_we_have_reason_to < lulzy bits.
assbot: On why 0.10's release notes say "we have reason to believe that libsecp256k1 is better tested and more thoroughly reviewed than the implementation in OpenSSL" : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1xEmxjb )
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> this is pretty massive if true. mod6 do you feel like testing for this insanity specifically ? << yes, im sure that i'll dig into this further
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816658 << actually this is pretty good a point, seeing how the tit actually goes INTO the face. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 22:56:02; asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'
mircea_popescu: a true interface.
trinque: !b 2 ✂︎
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0TP2YPT.txt )
mircea_popescu: the one truely thing i deeply regret from 2014
mircea_popescu: is how that spammer guy killed qntra and then bitcoin-assets.
mircea_popescu: i used to like dropping in on them now and again.
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: such is the fate of right wing movements tho, bereft of means and resources as they are.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> roll in the five or six pieces that are actually used. << I want to collect some more data on this issue. But I'm open to discussing this option going forward.
asciilifeform: mod6: simple algorithm: comment out the #includes
mircea_popescu: mod6 this issue is critical because it's easily the squishiest point of the whole protocol.
asciilifeform: mod6: and then add the routines back in until the thing builds again
asciilifeform: however
mircea_popescu: why the fuck we're importing from a different project - and THAT one in particular is anyone's guess
asciilifeform: you may end up pulling in much of the openssl turd in the process
asciilifeform: !s the spittoon
assbot: 9 results for 'the spittoon' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=the+spittoon
mircea_popescu: and a sad testament to what you get stuck with if , like satoshi, have to jackbuild a house
asciilifeform: is there a particular reason
asciilifeform: why the wallet is still in ?
mircea_popescu: in what ?
asciilifeform: therealbitcoin.
mircea_popescu: the reference implementation ?
mircea_popescu: how do you plan to use it w/o a wallet ?
asciilifeform: i suppose that'd be why
asciilifeform: hm.
mircea_popescu: " My standard of comparison for any technology will always be everything previously achieved by mankind, rather than what is available on the market today."
mircea_popescu: this much is a solid approach.
mod6: asciilifeform: One school of thought is to take the wallet, and place it outside of the R.I. as a seperate entity.
mircea_popescu: "do not tell me of what seems acceptable as an idea to pudgy people driving on the interstate towards connecticut. i do not care."
mircea_popescu: mod6 does that idea go as far as making bitcoin a sort of xserver ?
mod6: something to that effect, perhaps. yes.
mod6: where you can connect to 'bitcoind' with a wallet of your choosing. if that's what you mean.
mircea_popescu: like, the node, which is an always on demon, and then various things connecting to it : such as other nodes, on the eth card, or the user, always on the specifically delegated interface, etc ?
asciilifeform: idea that was spoken of was a hopper to throw signed tx in.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-10-2014#890284 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 23-10-2014 05:07:32; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> connected with serial cable << this from reading up on old mpex material ?
asciilifeform: ^ thread
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but more generally speaking.
mod6: right, then there was that whole discussion.
mod6: So, yeah, there are a number of topics that we look forward to discussing with you about future of the R.I. We'll get there. :]
mod6 does a data round-up & updates openssl on AWS instance
mircea_popescu: poor mod6 sounds exactly like buridan's ass :D
asciilifeform: back to the boojum - do i misunderstand or did the thing unwedge when moved to 'modern' openssl ?
danielpbarron: oh btw, the pogo running with swap space hasn't crashed yet, currently at 87k
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron was it 2gb space ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seems to be the report.
danielpbarron: yeah, slightly under after formatting
mod6: <+asciilifeform> back to the boojum - do i misunderstand or did the thing unwedge when moved to 'modern' openssl ? << yup, that's what unwedged it. move from openssl v0.9.8o -> openssl 1.0.1g
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: blocks?
danielpbarron: yeah
mod6: mircea_popescu: haha.
mod6: yeah, some well thought out decisions to be made for sure. :)
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: as in how many ?
mod6: im looking forward to that discussion, as well as the BDB removal discussion
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re the "Have you ever actually used a speech recognition system to enter serious lengths of text? " line in your comments : i agree talking to a comp
mircea_popescu: hm, actually, woul you prefer i comment there ?
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, 88100
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: either works
mircea_popescu: so i agree that talking to computers is loathsome. however, i often use note takers when speaking rather than writing myslelf. the latter explains the former.
mircea_popescu: the great utility of the scribe / secretary, rather than the tits, is that natural languages have piles and layers of redundancy built in. a good note taker is a cheap way to gain 50 to 100% speed and a decent 10 to 25% quality for very little cost.
mircea_popescu: BUT if the computer you are talking to is equally redundant and badly built, you are either an idiot or very very unfortunate.
asciilifeform: computer, as we have it, does not even know how to 'say that again plz'
asciilifeform: but merrily craps out garbage
mircea_popescu: a secretary that does that generally gets fired.
mircea_popescu: but! she can fix asonances!@
mircea_popescu: if any good, she can go "you don't actually say that"
mircea_popescu: as in, "i've never heard it before"
mircea_popescu: etc.
asciilifeform: the secretary will know how to finesse the question
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: it's a job, and it earns its pay fairly.
mircea_popescu: but the reason itdoes is specifically - that recipient is not computer.
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3088289335876823@naggum.no.html << obligatory naggum
assbot: Re: Why a lisp OS? Re: Help required on Limitations of Lisp - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1zY7kRF )
asciilifeform: ^ nothing to do with lisp, but with secretaries
mircea_popescu: also obligatory, wilde. "i will leave it to you to fix the ifs and thens and wherefores"
mircea_popescu: actually where's that great fry monologue.
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY
assbot: Stephen Fry Kinetic Typography - Language - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zY7HLM )
mircea_popescu: (to dampen that : fry likes wilde more because wilde was a fag than because wilde was good. which he wasn't THAT good. but nevertheless, THIS point is sound in this context)
asciilifeform: so far it sounds like what orwell would've farted out in a paragraph
asciilifeform: but turned into a whole dance
mircea_popescu: very politically like minded, yes.
mircea_popescu: which of course in a different time would beg the snide question if orwell were ever married.
asciilifeform: was, interestingly
mircea_popescu: (note that this does not mean the same as "was ever married" in the slightest, which is the point)
asciilifeform: iirc at least 2x
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 242700 @ 0.00040201 = 97.5678 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: i thought he was a womanizer
asciilifeform: iirc was, but it didn't leave any interesting material for archaeologists
asciilifeform: or if did, i'm unaware.
mircea_popescu: lol this naggum thing. jesus christ he's impossible to talk to.
mircea_popescu: at which point does the use of "seperate" in the original text suggest to him that he's dealing with a simple man with simple problems and he'd better stick to simpler solutions ?
mircea_popescu: there's two kinds of socialist minds in this world, the sort that expect all people to be equally stupid, and the sort that expect all people to be equally smart.
mircea_popescu: neither is good news.
asciilifeform: what was the 'simple man with simple programs' doing in comp.lang.lisp ?
mircea_popescu: looking for a nut.
asciilifeform: mistook address ?
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: "according to a report in the Economist earlier this year, the cost of producing any piece of business communication dropped along with advances in computers from 1950 through 1980. from 1985 through 1995, it rose sharply enough to consume all earnings made since 1950. it is significantly more expensive to produce a business letter in 1997 than it was in 1950. despite many technological advances with a very high pri
mircea_popescu: ce tag, a secretary does not produce any more measurable output now than in 1950 -- in fact, the evidence suggests that obtaining _half_ the productivity of a 1950's secretary in 1997 is a major feat. the fact that managers write their own reports at down to 1/10th of the speed of a secretary that used to be paid 1/10th of their salary also means that the time spent producing a letter or a report can cost as much as 1
mircea_popescu: 00 times more than it did in 1950, when managers scribbled unreadable notes and very quick and efficient typists corrected their spelling, grammer, and language and adhered to "company style" effortlessly."
mircea_popescu: now that... that is EXACTLY what i had in mind earlier.
asciilifeform: a sparrow caught in a microwave horn
asciilifeform: also mistook address
asciilifeform: speaking of which
asciilifeform: student puzzle
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform laugh if you will, but if pressed to come up with a definition of humanity, at least as an ideal object, the most sound i can think up is, "that collection of objects which construct relations which degrade gracefully"
asciilifeform: give a physical explanation, in one sentence, of why a trumpet/tube/microwave horn needs the 'bell'.
mircea_popescu: so... sparrow cooked, sure. simple man should be safe.
asciilifeform: naggum saw comp.lang.lisp as something more like a machine shop than a public square
mircea_popescu: even so.
asciilifeform: 'must be =this= tall to ride'
mircea_popescu: note that the guy wasn't actually making code changes
mircea_popescu: i guess perhaps he was in some definition
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which part's the bell ?
asciilifeform: the end opposite from mouth
asciilifeform: (wide end)
mircea_popescu: not all of them actually end in a resonant chamber do they ?
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure i saw simple funel shapes
asciilifeform: funnel shapes also work
asciilifeform: answer (rot13) - gur ubea, va obgu pnfrf, zngpurf gur vzcrqnapr bs gur genafzvggre - zbhgu be zntargeba, rvgure - jvgu gung bs serr fcnpr.
mircea_popescu: "in a sense, Windows is a result of the way C++ builds environments, like Unix is a result of how C does it." << and in this sense... their merging would be expected at about the time "most people" couldn't if press explain exactly what the ++ stand for.
mircea_popescu: ah hehe that's a good point.
mircea_popescu: i suppose "resonance chamber" isn't actually a good enough answer.
asciilifeform: http://www.setileague.org/askdr/imped.htm << solution for electromagnetic
assbot: Ask Dr. SETI: Characteristic Impedance of Free Space ... ( http://bit.ly/1IlN9ku )
asciilifeform: https://casper.berkeley.edu/astrobaki/index.php/Impedance_of_Free_Space << for folks who must have prettyprinted equations
assbot: Impedance of Free Space - AstroBaki ... ( http://bit.ly/1IlNp2H )
mod6: ok was able to pass 168,001 on my aws instance with configuration: openssl 1.0.1g + v0.5.3 + patches { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7 } : http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=aBLX9YVy
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IlO44n )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152100 @ 0.00041249 = 62.7397 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 342354 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 365 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44859627562.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.69034
asciilifeform: 302465.
mircea_popescu: "Engineering complexity is a form of environmental pollution; perhaps even the worst form of all, because it may yet turn out to be the case that it can kill whole civilizations, not just individual people."
mircea_popescu: actually this is a perfectly good motto.
asciilifeform: wherewasthis?
asciilifeform remembers and lolz
mircea_popescu: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=374&cpage=1#comment-2816
assbot: Loper OS » Of Weighty Matters, or Thumbs Still Down for Clojure. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOVgzJ )
mircea_popescu: i think you know him.
asciilifeform: ah.
asciilifeform: believe or not, that thread -still- gets comments.
mircea_popescu: it's a pretty good point anyway.
asciilifeform: it's sorta the basic point of my site in a sentence.
mircea_popescu: " This of course adds the complexity to Clojure. The question is – does this acquired complexity worth it? I think it does. You gain a platform that is being poured thousands of man-hours every year into, you gain a GC that is being optimized for you, you gain the crossplatformity basically for free. You may call that opportunism but it works after all."
mircea_popescu: so if i fuck you, and you get pregnant, well... is it worth it ?
mircea_popescu: you get a baby for free
mircea_popescu: (tm)
asciilifeform: phree gipht.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that you know... you gotta spend nine months eating for free
mircea_popescu: for two *
mircea_popescu: !up auscompgeek
asciilifeform: see also the original 'modest proposal' by swift.
asciilifeform: (is it still safe to assume that english speaking folks read it?)
asciilifeform: or did that also quietly walk away somewhere
mircea_popescu: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1751759988/sicp-distilled
assbot: SICP Distilled by thattommyhall — Kickstarter ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOVG97 )
mircea_popescu: 723 backers £12,927 pledged of £3,500 goal 0 seconds to go
asciilifeform: paging herr bowdler!
asciilifeform: shakespeare distilled!
mircea_popescu: i guess it's almost done by now ? 6 months later ?
asciilifeform: i would have guessed that this is to be a 'cliff's notes' (american book series of ready-baked crib sheets for f-students) for sicp, but the latter is no longer (afaik) assigned in school
asciilifeform: so it can't be that
asciilifeform: it was nowhere near this figure, iirc, when comment appeared
mircea_popescu: could it be just 25k worth of fraud which really "isn't all that much" especially seeing how "everyone deserves a living wage" ?
asciilifeform: but why -that- fraud
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 202250 @ 0.00041106 = 83.1369 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: you ever walk behind couples wondering why she chose THAT loser ?
mircea_popescu: a) she didn't choose ; b) you don't actually see a "that" there.
asciilifeform: but still end up wondering in what circus the dwarf and giant met.
mircea_popescu: every one.
mircea_popescu: http://www.thattommyhall.com/ << blog, discontinued oct 9th
assbot: Everything is a Ghetto ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOWQS9 )
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/thattommyhall/status/335457624713752577 << abandoned twitter detailing his idea
assbot: Looking for investment in my new startup "Facade". The model is simple, I take your money, do what I want for a year then you write it off
mircea_popescu: i guess ima write this up.
asciilifeform: the simplest possible chumpamatic.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169061 @ 0.00041227 = 69.6988 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117300 @ 0.00040498 = 47.5042 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up Guest70720
mircea_popescu: ello brenda.
Guest70720: a
Guest70720: hi now i can spam you like crazy for 30mins
mircea_popescu: wd.
Guest70720: i'm still trying to understand how this irc thing works. I've been lurking for quite a while but mostly on the blogs and forums
mircea_popescu: start reading the logs. linked in the topic.
Guest70720: they are endless, it's like reading the blockchain...
mircea_popescu: i think that's exactly what they're going for :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64100 @ 0.00041438 = 26.5618 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: when i was in college, i sorta made a fool of myself by giving a presentation about irc in some computer class; the presentation was supposed to be about some online business we were supposed to have come up with in a semester. In retrospect, it was exactly the right thing to present; kids growing up without awareness of irc is not helping them
mircea_popescu: you think ?
mircea_popescu: ironically, irc was a big thing when i was a teen. then pretty much forgot about it. only rediscovered it in a frustrated attempt to make sense of the ever mounting idiocy that bitcoin appeared to be. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: it stuck.
danielpbarron: hah same here ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2014#525820 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2014 18:09:12; mircea_popescu: "So above you see pankkake continue to smear the company ActiveMining (by calling it an investment scam, associating it with the known 'LabCoin scam', saying the CEO is facing jail and accusing me of being a scammer (!)) after Ken publicly refused to pay pankkake's blackmail money demand."
mircea_popescu: lol anyone remember active mining ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: heh i do. i actually made a buck on that scam.
mircea_popescu: http://www.dailydot.com/geek/benjanun-sriduangkaew-revealed-to-be-troll-requires-hate-winterfox/
assbot: Acclaimed sci-fi writer exposed as notorious Internet troll ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzMbgf )
mircea_popescu: aawww, troll was a ... woman ?! ethnic ?! NOT POSSIBRU
asciilifeform: this was big
asciilifeform: in its particular zoo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00040498 = 4.9813 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: myeah
mircea_popescu: hey anyone remembers these bits i quoted some weeks ago about this woman that did a kickstarter-like thing for her oyung adult novel
mircea_popescu: and ended up pulling it because "internet is mean" ?
asciilifeform: http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/rcQaef4yYJyn/info/moia-masterskaia << ben_vulpes, BingoBoingo, others << my attempt at subtitling a certain memorable photo brag (not mine!). to enable the subs, click CC on bottom left hand corner (not the usual bottom right on youtube.)
assbot: Моя мастерская with subtitles | Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzNvQa )
asciilifeform: ^ and also sound starts muted for some reason.
asciilifeform: found video subbing tool, and though that there was a list of things i was once going to sub, but for some reason found in my notes only this.
asciilifeform: *thought
asciilifeform points out that the pictured scene is not his house. he only wishes it were.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51350 @ 0.00040498 = 20.7957 BTC [-]
phillipsjk: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2015#1011355 got me thinking about: https://gist.github.com/sipa/5d12c343746dad376c80 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 03:18:43; mircea_popescu: sooooo... on account of bitcoind recompiled with new openssl, actual bitcoind compiled with actual openssl as of 2009 does not pass blocks in 2011
assbot: Proposed DERSIG BIP ... ( http://bit.ly/1zYpjHC )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 17232 @ 0.0009048 = 15.5915 BTC [-] {43}
mircea_popescu: signatures are a major vulnerability. mostly because nobody in fucking crypto except for us understands the actual constraints.
phillipsjk: A careful reading of the logs shows that mod6 was careful to use the pre-f revision of debian SSL.
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: i pulled an openssl out of me arse
asciilifeform: but did warn!
asciilifeform: 'Until recently, OpenSSL's releases would accept various deviations from the DER standard and accept signatures as valid. When this changed in OpenSSL 1.0.0p and 1.0.1k, it made some nodes reject the chain.' - from the phoundation document linked above.
asciilifeform remembers this brouhaha, did not verify the claim personally
phillipsjk: "The requirement to have signatures that comply strictly with DER has been enforced as a relay policy by the reference client since v0.8.0, and very few transactions violating it are being added to the chain as of January 2015. In addition, every non-compliant signature can trivially be converted into a compliant one, so there is no loss of functionality by this requirement."
phillipsjk: I don't understand the complete implementation details, but how do they how to convert the signatures without messing with the merkle tree? Have a table of weird transactions?
phillipsjk: oops can't grammar
phillipsjk: .... but how do they plant to canvert the signatures without...
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/#comment-112039 << to whoever was asking for winblows
assbot: Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzP54H )
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk non compliant signatures are non compliant in trivial ways,
mircea_popescu: such as space padding
phillipsjk: It took me 3 tries to /msg assbot (mis-typed msg)
phillipsjk: Is the space padding ignored when computing the merckle hash then?
mircea_popescu: in this sense
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?_i=VerifySignature
assbot: Satoshi identifier search: VerifySignature ... ( http://bit.ly/1zYqab8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207900 @ 0.00041561 = 86.4053 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: god damned i can't find this
asciilifeform: iirc not ignored
mircea_popescu: !up sypher_
phillipsjk: "As explained by Gavin Andersen on the forum - in order to calculate the ID hash of the Tx that is used in the Merkle Tree, one needs to SHA hash the whole Tx message as defined in the Protocol Specification wiki page twice." http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2177/how-to-calculate-a-hash-of-a-tx (second answer links to a diagram done by the Armory developer)
assbot: transactions - How to calculate a hash of a Tx? - Bitcoin Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1zYspvd )
phillipsjk: etotheipi: "If you want to hash a Tx for ECDSA signing/verification, that's a whole different story (although, the link above also shows how to do that, too)." link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29416.0
assbot: On-the-wire byte map & OP_CHECKSIG diagram (knowledge donation!) ... ( http://bit.ly/1zYsL54 )
phillipsjk: See, there is some gold buried in the bitcointalk forum. Sifting through all the noise is a pain sometimes though.
asciilifeform: knowing what we know about the folks of the tardphorum, it is worth the while of anyone who actually gives a flying fuck, to consult the source.
phillipsjk: The source does not have a graphical summary. You can think of it as a "map". Maps are known to be wrong on occasion.
asciilifeform: don't be the fellow who follows his 'gps' receiver off the derelict bridge and into the sea.
phillipsjk has never quite understood why geocaching is supposed to be exciting "because you don't know what $Gaint_Obstacle you will encounter!"
phillipsjk: I think GPS recievers include maps now, but still.
asciilifeform: not exciting at all with radio cheat.
asciilifeform: exciting when done the proper way
asciilifeform: (practice for weapons cache emplacement and retrieval.)
asciilifeform: consult the literature.
mircea_popescu: ahhh finaly.
phillipsjk: I was in Cadets for a while, and liked map&compass.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2015#974839 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2015 21:22:05; mircea_popescu: "4. You don't deserve to know any of that. It's none of your business. I invited my readers to chip in on a project--or not. I did not invite you to worm your nose into every aspect of my life, hunt down pictures of my home, call me names, or tell me I was worthless, arrogant, greedy, and undeserving. But you want to rip me bare and expose how awful you're sure I am. I get it, you want me transparent
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk trusting summaries, especially when "graphical" is a sure path to perdition.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126900 @ 0.00040187 = 50.9973 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 424664 @ 0.00039968 = 169.7297 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: "It's all crap. This SJW shit is the Tea Party of the left. "
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: kickstarter article: ks is straight from the encyclopaedia of chumpatronic circuits, chapter 'make use of chumps directly in the machine’s control system.' as in 'multi-level' crapolade of every variety.
mircea_popescu: actually... the swj shit is what the left likes to think the tea party.
mircea_popescu: odd how this works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform um. this seems to me just a completely inept, disorganised kid.
asciilifeform: referring to ks itself
asciilifeform: which laughs all the way to the bank whether man or monkey sits down and pens prospectus / collects.
mircea_popescu: surely.
mircea_popescu: and no doubt once they sell to facebook / washington mutual / obama's pubic hair,
mircea_popescu: they'll sell for way more than the gpg "dev" got to sell out the thing she doesn't represent.
mircea_popescu: and defo more than the lousy one year salary gavin got for attempting (and failing) some
asciilifeform: all that's missing is a usg-operated altcoin to go with it
mircea_popescu: (which incidentally makes me curious, if you get usg advance on promise to deliver and then fail to deliver, do you hjave to repay ? or go to jail ?)
asciilifeform: they'd pull whatever string was attached to the muppet
asciilifeform: until head comes off.
asciilifeform: (what string? ask gerald davis or any of the rest, i've no idea)
asciilifeform: maybe davis will tell us what it was if he finally recovers his courage and eats his luger on camera
asciilifeform: perhaps will say to the camera
mircea_popescu: there's always a fine excuse.
mircea_popescu: "i'm married - gotta make sure my kids have no better anything to look up to than i did"
mircea_popescu: or w/e.
asciilifeform: i'd bet it's a solid, tangible string
asciilifeform: at least for most of'em
mircea_popescu: doubt it
mircea_popescu: too expensive.
phillipsjk is too tired to be useful.
mircea_popescu: so go to bed!
mircea_popescu: "I think that, like species, languages will form evolutionary trees, with dead-ends branching off all over. We can see this happening already. Cobol, for all its sometime popularity, does not seem to have any intellectual descendants. It is an evolutionary dead-end-- a Neanderthal language."
mircea_popescu: how the fuck can he write this.
asciilifeform: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: "Even when there were still plenty of Neanderthals, it must have sucked to be one. The Cro-Magnons would have been constantly coming over and beating you up and stealing your food."
gabriel_laddel: ty
mircea_popescu: what cro-magnon ever beat up a neandhertal ?!
mircea_popescu: wtf, global warming retroeffects.
gabriel_laddel: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3206985430398054@naggum.net.html
assbot: Re: Representing code as XML: the Flare Programming Language - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/18WGOfl )
asciilifeform: ancient hypothesis where the former ate up the latter
gabriel_laddel: ^ related
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: have you grokked the "why" of lisp yet?
mircea_popescu: have i ended up like the lisp heathen or something ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: nah, I'm writing something now for other reasons, will link when finished if you've not.
mircea_popescu: i think it's a fine language! i just don't have anything to do in it.
gabriel_laddel: lolk
gabriel_laddel: I'll take that as "no".
mircea_popescu: imagine me like a guy that has no poem to write. k ? so i don't write in italian. splendid language for the best of poems, and even for talking melodicly about the tv shows.
asciilifeform 'didn't have anything to do in it' likewise for first decade or so of knowing
mircea_popescu: but...i ain't got much to say
mircea_popescu: i don't write any c, either, or c++. i've never written either java or javascript. i sometimes to a little bash, and always to dig up natural language strings in natural language dialects. or otherwise mess the mup.
mircea_popescu: i guess i mostly use bash to php in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu would probably have enjoyed snobol.
asciilifeform: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SnobolLanguage
assbot: Snobol Language ... ( http://bit.ly/1zhCqfV )
punkman: too much log!
asciilifeform: (no, not 'cobol for snob', as i once thought as a kid)
mircea_popescu: lol. i think we did something with it in school. dun recall so well.
mircea_popescu: but in any case - i'm perhaps the worst market for any language. sort-of like a grasshopper is no market for leather goods.
asciilifeform: i may never have sat down to play with it had the library not thrown out (yes) the only book on it therein.
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2015#1011347 << that's what I have, wedges ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 03:16:39; mod6: OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014
asciilifeform: punkman: on what ?
asciilifeform: pogo ?
punkman: oh wait, mine is 1.0.1e
punkman: asciilifeform: debian 7, x86
mircea_popescu: bitcoin - error only counts if generated by the right software on the right hardware on the right data spot.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, absent one of 3, it's "normal"
mircea_popescu: such we've progressed...
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: http://worrydream.com/refs/Griswold-TheSnobolProgrammingLanguage.pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18WHxNA )
asciilifeform: ^ scan
asciilifeform: obligatory for all serious weirdlang aficionados.
asciilifeform: it's a bell labs product incidentally.
asciilifeform: 1968.
punkman: worrydream fella has some interesting stuff
punkman: I remember his "The Future of Programming" talk, made me sad
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78850 @ 0.00039259 = 30.9557 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: sad because you thought "one day i too will be stupid and senile like graham" ?
asciilifeform: 'worrydream' is not graham
punkman: sad because he shows cool things that we threw away
asciilifeform: punkman: my www is largely about these particular things.
asciilifeform to bed
punkman: asciilifeform: yes I have perused (even before #b-a ;)
punkman: http://vimeo.com/71278954
assbot: Bret Victor - The Future of Programming on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/18WIvJE )
mircea_popescu: oh i had the wrong talk :p
mircea_popescu: http://paulgraham.com/hundred.html
assbot: The Hundred-Year Language ... ( http://bit.ly/18WIG82 )
punkman: http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/cheap-smartphone-dongle-diagnoses-hiv-and-syphilis-15-minutes
assbot: Cheap Smartphone Dongle Diagnoses HIV And Syphilis In 15 Minutes | IFLScience ... ( http://bit.ly/18WJjOQ )
punkman: "Matt Green, a professor specializing in cryptography at Johns Hopkins University, said he has looked at the GnuPG source code and found it in such rough shape that he regularly assigns chunks of it to his students for review. At the end I ask how they felt about it and they all basically say: 'God, please I never want to do something like this again'"
punkman: "It's not maintained by enough people, given how big it is, and it contains a lot of old cruft that should be gotten rid of. When it got re-engineered from version 1 to version 2, version 2 got re-engineered in this abstract way [so] that it's hard to figure out what's going on on the back end."
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2015#1011365 << possible candidate https://github.com/kmackay/micro-ecc ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 03:20:14; asciilifeform: let's rip out openssl in the simplest way
assbot: kmackay/micro-ecc · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/18WJY2A )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62850 @ 0.00039571 = 24.8704 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/10/guide-to-setting-up-a-remote-bitcoin-node-for-20-per-year/ << it occurs to me he had a point.
assbot: Guide To Setting Up A Remote Bitcoin Node For $20 Per Year | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/18WKGwP )
mircea_popescu: anyone remember bluemeanie ? http://blog.bluemeanie.net/
assbot: BlueMeanie Blog. Cryptocurrency / Cryptofinance ... ( http://bit.ly/18WLaDb )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105500 @ 0.00040047 = 42.2496 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124250 @ 0.00039601 = 49.2042 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25313 @ 0.00039601 = 10.0242 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 242100 @ 0.00039809 = 96.3776 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00039601 = 7.9202 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156000 @ 0.00039198 = 61.1489 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68900 @ 0.00040095 = 27.6255 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83450 @ 0.00040138 = 33.4952 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44689 @ 0.00040138 = 17.9373 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112401 @ 0.00040992 = 46.0754 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134950 @ 0.00041144 = 55.5238 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10899 @ 0.00041331 = 4.5047 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163701 @ 0.0004169 = 68.2469 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172704 @ 0.00041777 = 72.1506 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 156148 @ 0.00041872 = 65.3823 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00041125 = 25.7854 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173600 @ 0.00041904 = 72.7453 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31175 @ 0.00041915 = 13.067 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64567 @ 0.00041974 = 27.1014 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 214450 @ 0.00042114 = 90.3135 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 176093 @ 0.00041074 = 72.3284 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl dead scoopbot ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/the-left-trying-to-steal-yet-another-word/ heh 2012.
assbot: The left trying to steal yet another word pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/16SWuzH )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.00041783 = 34.471 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00041783 = 5.3273 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121381 @ 0.00041783 = 50.7166 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "I have little direct evidence about the atrocities in the Spanish civil war. I know that some were committed by the Republicans, and far more (they are still continuing) by the Fascists. But what impressed me then, and has impressed me ever since, is that atrocities are believed in or disbelieved in solely on grounds of political predilection. Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those o
mircea_popescu: f his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence. Recently I drew up a table of atrocities during the period between 1918 and the present; there was never a year when atrocities were not occurring somewhere or other, and there was hardly a single case when the Left and the Right believed in the same stories simultaneously. And stranger yet, at any moment the situation can suddenly reverse itself and yeste
mircea_popescu: rday's proved-to-the-hilt atrocity story can become a ridiculous lie, merely because the political landscape has changed."
mircea_popescu: aww, global warming -> climate change is not a trope creator ?! WHO KNEW!!!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115103 @ 0.00040913 = 47.0921 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1007145 << for it to be worth my time at this amount, i'd want half the profit. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:27:14; mircea_popescu: well, if you make a f.mpif pc and report your trades, say daily, and submit monthly sum reports, i dunno, 10 ?
mircea_popescu: nah, first timers get a few % of the profit, and at the end of a whole year. ☟︎
adlai: or 100% of the profit from using my own 10btc
adlai: i'd make a more reasonable offer for a more attractive amount of capital
mircea_popescu: yes, and the oppoortunity to have the same problem in 2016.
mircea_popescu: you're not getting any younger you know.
mircea_popescu: but, apart from that, your life, live it as you think fit.
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/02/07/venus-in-fur/
assbot: Venus in Fur | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1KsTg3Z )
pete_dushenski: ^took in a play ostensibly about domination and submission last night
adlai is one of the youngest folks around here, to his knowledge...
pete_dushenski: interesting idea and even some shining moments, but the script was out to post-post-modern lunch
mircea_popescu: Alana Hawley would be a great porn star name.
pete_dushenski: having been written in the last decade, though, it's no huge surprise that venus in fur was timid at best
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu yup
pete_dushenski: if only she were a little more physical
pete_dushenski: it was so strange to see an apparently confident woman be so physically inept
pete_dushenski: as if confidence didn't translate into the real world
pete_dushenski: but was merely something to be believed in one's own head
mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> it was so strange to see an apparently confident woman be so physically inept <<< this is quite a problem, yes.
pete_dushenski: maybe it was just the pussy director keeping the actors so reigned in
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1008292 << this works, low volume but still enough to profit. haven't tried paymium yet but volume there is still very low. what about buttfinex? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 13:21:22; jurov: perhaps i can look into kraken
jurov: adlai you know buttfinex's history
mircea_popescu: i can't begin to imagine how people think actresses are to be taken seriously if it's plain obvious that should a drill sargeant manifest and yell "STRIP!" she'd start trembling like an eight year old.
jurov: ?
adlai isn't aware of a major exchange that with a satisfactory history
adlai: jurov: but which specific episode are you referring to?
jurov: well, not all of them are based on reusing previously published gnarly code
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135355 @ 0.00040262 = 54.4966 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu which is precisely what the male protagonist bemoans in the opening scene of the play
pete_dushenski: only to fall head over heels for a slightly more verbose version of the same thing
adlai has lost money from garbage data spewed by finex's "trading engine" during extreme load... but he's also making >⅓% daily there, which has its charms
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski part of your disbelief also comes from you thinking in plain terms of d/s whereas the show seems to be thought more in terms of "a coupla switches get together".
pete_dushenski: for those interested, venus in fur is apparently playing pretty well everywhere these days
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu that isn't implausible
pete_dushenski: this isn't my area of expertise and i'm working from my own understanding of human motivations
pete_dushenski: and i think my reservation lies mostly in the lack of commitment
pete_dushenski: the flimsiness of either role
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski to quote adlai above, as far as the young actors are concerned, "it'd take half the theatre to make it worth their while" :D
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-02-2015#1007135 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:19:42; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> adlai: why does it have to test on actual live-fire btc anyway? << so he can make a buck ?
adlai shrugs
jurov: adlai you know, risk assessment.
jurov: and if this is going to mpif, default is not really viable
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu never sleeps
thestringpuller: i believe mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are robots
mircea_popescu: i just woke up yo.
mircea_popescu: !up Dimsler
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu lol i guess so
jurov: if it was extra asset with stipulation "if buttfinex fails, tough luck" then that's naother thing
pete_dushenski: the world doesn't revolve around me, i'm told
Dimsler: lol looks like mircea made it on reddit on the feminist board
mircea_popescu: i wut ?
adlai: this is actually why i suggested that for an mpif pc, it'd make the most sense to run the bot on s.mpoe itself
Dimsler: someone was quoting your womens studies article
mircea_popescu: link ?
jurov: so, let's do s.mpoe first then ☟︎
jurov: and i can submit company papers to kraken and we'll see. but it will need really good agreement as to who is liable
mircea_popescu: eh, and you'll enforce a really good agreement how ?
adlai would rather not be liable for ancient sea creatures running off with your bit-gold. placing bad trades is another matter, but this is measurable with much more resolution than solvency
adlai: amazing how this thing just keeps running while i'm in here, almost like it's not human
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97737 @ 0.00040239 = 39.3284 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126786 @ 0.00040136 = 50.8868 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/womens-prison-mass-jail-break-5120591
assbot: Women's prison mass jail break after inmates in dominatrix gear handcuff male guards expecting 'mass orgy' - Mirror Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJnF5l )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65600 @ 0.00040679 = 26.6854 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: no way.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha this actually happened ?!
mircea_popescu: https://www.google.com.ar/search?hl=es-419&source=hp&q=Cuiaba+pris%C3%A3o
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ztenQ0 )
mircea_popescu: seems its bs.
danielpbarron: aw :<
mircea_popescu: all hits on Bruno Amorim that are relevant to this story come from telegraph.co.uk
mircea_popescu: not likely this'd have happened and no mention in spanish/portuguese press.
asciilifeform: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 342460 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 259 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 11 hours, 55 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 45174899518.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.45421
asciilifeform: 305112.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74400 @ 0.00040756 = 30.3225 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1700 @ 0.00092475 = 1.5721 BTC [+] {9}
asciilifeform: punkman: micro-ecc << very interesting. mainly in that it is actually small enough to read.
asciilifeform: Cheap Smartphone Dongle Diagnoses HIV And Syphilis In 15 Minutes << sham. not in that the tech doesn't work (it does) but in that it is the ordinary single-shot immunoreactive test, but for some (chumpatronic) reason someone bolted it on to a pNohe.
asciilifeform: likewise, device requiring drops of blood is a nonstarter from the perspective of thermonuking the contagion.
asciilifeform: that requires 'spit in cup, five seconds'
asciilifeform: (see old thread on the subject)
mircea_popescu: saliva syphilis testing is like from 1966
asciilifeform: afaik nobody gives a damn re: syphilis today.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78597 @ 0.00041154 = 32.3458 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: half the claim in article.
mircea_popescu: but anyway hiv is not ever going to be diagnosable in saliva.
mircea_popescu: might as well insist you find burglars by inspecting livestock exclusively.
asciilifeform: immunoreactive test at ppb concentration is not a wholly outlandish concept
mircea_popescu: think what ppb concentrations mean.
mircea_popescu: is it possible through pure chance to miss an infection because it just didn't happen to go to saliva ?
asciilifeform: parachute also can fail, yes.
mircea_popescu: not by any means to the same degree.
mircea_popescu: at the size of the proteins involved, there's not really THAT many billion units in a saliva sample.
mircea_popescu: your test will probably be in the double digit failure rate, which is laughable. i suspect it is impossible for chemodynamic reasons to make it single digit, which makes it impractical
mircea_popescu: which is why attempts aren't really pursued/financed.
asciilifeform: quite possibly.
mircea_popescu: at least it's my off the cuff math
asciilifeform: on other hand, we aren't looking for the virus.
asciilifeform: but for the antibodies.
mircea_popescu: they are still large, and not particularly saliva bound.
asciilifeform: so concentrations of virus in fluid for the purpose of transmission - yes, extremely low to none
mircea_popescu: logically, the antibodies are not often found where the virus is not often found. the human machine is still a machine, trying to be economical if possible.
asciilifeform: http://cvi.asm.org/content/5/4/419.full
asciilifeform: apparently, commercial SOP
asciilifeform is behind the times
mircea_popescu: "This is due, in part, to variations in the type and volume of oral sample collected, how the sample is handled prior to testing, the concentration of immunoglobulin (Ig) G present, and if testing methods have been modified to accommodate the use of oral fluids. In early studies that reported poor sensitivity, whole saliva was used and there was little consideration for the volume and condition of the sample needed and
mircea_popescu: the choice of screening assays employed. For this reason, investigators have developed specialized collection devices that enhance the level of antibodies, particularly IgG, in oral specimens, ensure sufficient specimen volume, and include reagents to prevent microbial growth and proteolytic breakdown of antibodies. In general, this has been accomplished by collecting oral fluids enriched in gingival crevicular fluid
mircea_popescu: and mucosal transudate, which possess increased levels of IgG relative to saliva"
mircea_popescu: a) it's not "spit in cup" and b) it still doesn't really work.
mircea_popescu: also, this is all positive testing. what you want is negative testing. entirely different beasts.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 5257 @ 0.00021898 = 1.1512 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87100 @ 0.00041321 = 35.9906 BTC [+]
punkman: asciilifeform: punkman: micro-ecc << very interesting. mainly in that it is actually small enough to read. << speaking of small things...
punkman: netbsd has a pgp implementation
punkman: http://www.netpgp.com/
assbot: NetPGP - digital signatures and encryption ... ( http://bit.ly/1zJ3OXS )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106700 @ 0.00041362 = 44.1333 BTC [+]
punkman: I assume this has less baggage
mircea_popescu: if someone feels like reading it...
punkman: speaking of baggage, there is a type of gpg packet that can cause an infinite loop in version 1.4.16 and before
punkman: (been there since 1999)
danielpbarron: speaking of netbsd; that's what i'm researching as a candidate to replace archlinux for the pogo
asciilifeform: netpgp << appears to use openssl...
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2015#1011857 << i'm interested in doing this, but it requires either collaboration with an mpex account holder, or the fabled coinbr api... ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 18:14:06; jurov: so, let's do s.mpoe first then
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: netbsd on pogo << last i checked, lacked support for internal eeprom
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: which is a deal-killer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107838 @ 0.00041422 = 44.6687 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: adlai i think pretty much the entirety of the problem stems from your outright bizarre expectation that bitcoin will somehow suit you. the correct approach is exactly the opposite : change yourself to suit exactly. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: it's not "a technology", specifically in that it's not made to serve man.
mircea_popescu: it's a discovery. it bends future behaviour.
adlai: don't worry, i believe the same nonsense about my discovery
asciilifeform: confirmed, netpgp uses openssl for the actual maths.
asciilifeform: into the skip, it goes.
asciilifeform: had to spend a grand total of two minutes reading, to learn this.
adlai: also i don't follow why you think that i have this expectation, or that it affects my problem(s)
adlai has more than one!
adlai wonders why so many programmers are like "Math is hard!" barbie
asciilifeform shrugs, also doesn't know
mircea_popescu: adlai nothing wrong with it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's because math is scary, not hard.
mircea_popescu: programmers are, by and large, social sciences rejects.
mircea_popescu: they know enough to steer away from those places where they can most easily be caught being stupid.
mircea_popescu: your average soviet bureaucrat would avoid committing to paper as much as 1+1=2 , if he could get away with it. and sensibly so, because... you never know.
asciilifeform: but from where comes the fear, when no one is looking and the maths are safely under your blanket in the cover of night ?
mircea_popescu: same deal with your average programmer.
mircea_popescu: from the fact that they MIGHT
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: a slightly pudgy 37 yo woman in iowa is not slinking towards her car in a parking lot among crickets because she is going to get raped
adlai: well you can catch yourself being stupid before you "open your mouth and remove all doubt", although i guess it's harder the stupider you get
mircea_popescu: by any one of the 0.05 people present on the same square mile
mircea_popescu: adlai equally harder the smarter you get.
asciilifeform: it's one thing to sign a freshly-packet parachute with your blood, swearing 'i am responsible for this, whatever happens'
asciilifeform: another matter entirely to lazily play game 'paratrooper'
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how narcissism works :)
adlai: khaneman has a chapter on this, tl;dr is that a good "expert" is one who knows when to mistrust expert intuition
mircea_popescu: game much more serious, because not being the work self, it actually therefore must be... THE REAL ME
asciilifeform: that's kinda how i pictured the narcissism working - you play 'paratrooper' and imagine that you are in fact a ww2 hero
mircea_popescu: no, you imagine specifically that you aren't, and that this is specifically why it matters.
mircea_popescu: ANYONE Could be an actual star/paratrooper/president if they actually tried.
mircea_popescu: however... not trying it, is the real performance.
asciilifeform probably needs to reread tlp, because he finds this a little confusing
mircea_popescu: italians, as their states were disintegrating, called this spezzatura
mircea_popescu: a good word to look up in period italian literature.
mircea_popescu: sprezzatura*
asciilifeform: the 'work self' thing i remember, but still find it bizarre
adlai: mircea_popescu: i still don't follow why you say http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2015#1011933 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 20:09:21; mircea_popescu: adlai i think pretty much the entirety of the problem stems from your outright bizarre expectation that bitcoin will somehow suit you. the correct approach is exactly the opposite : change yourself to suit exactly.
mircea_popescu: aha.
adlai doesn't have this expectation
mircea_popescu: how do you know this ?
adlai: if it's an unconscious expectation, then i'm not conscious of having it :)
mircea_popescu: :)
asciilifeform: let's imagine that holy grail, room-temperature superconductor, were discovered tonight
mircea_popescu: let's.
asciilifeform: would folks 'have the expectation that room-temp supercon will work for them' ?
mircea_popescu: depends.
asciilifeform: if anything, they may (depending on inclinations) cower in feat of the inevitable laser pistol battles
asciilifeform: or, alternatively, relish the notion of lasers-at-dawn
asciilifeform: but does this resolve to 'will work for them' ?
asciilifeform: *in fear
mircea_popescu: well, let me change this from something we don't know to something we do know.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113600 @ 0.00042125 = 47.854 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: when the airplane came about, everyone hailed it as a "great civilizing factor"
mircea_popescu: the generalexpectation being, that it will meld into people's lives as they are, making them more so.
mircea_popescu: you aware of this ?
asciilifeform: paging herr orwell..
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, by 1950 the vast majority of the utility of planes was dropping bombs on people's heads.
mircea_popescu: the plane CHANGED their life. it didn't come about to make 1900 a more-1800-than-1800.
asciilifeform: 'Some months ago, in this column, I pointed out that modern scientific inventions have tended to prevent rather than increase international communication. This brought me several angry letters from readers, but none of them were able to show that what I had said was false. They merely retorted that if we had Socialism, the aeroplane, the radio, etc. would not be perverted to wrong uses. Very true, but then we haven’t Soc
asciilifeform: ialism. As it is, the aeroplane is primarily a thing for dropping bombs and the radio primarily a thing for whipping up nationalism. Even before the war there was enormously less contact between the peoples of the earth than there had been thirty years earlier, and education was perverted, history rewritten and freedom of thought suppressed to an extent undreamed of in earlier ages. And there is no sign whatever of these te
asciilifeform: ndencies being reversed.'
mircea_popescu: it came about to "fuck you louise, go in the air shelter and sit there"
mircea_popescu: and to "fuck you charlie, read or don't read but the light stays out"
mircea_popescu: and so on and so forth.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: charlie going "i am willing to work with planes as long as either the light stays on or x or y"
asciilifeform: so this.
mircea_popescu: is well... laughable. good luck wioth that, you only have one life and when that's finished there you go.
asciilifeform: obligatory: http://www.paleofuture.com
assbot: Paleofuture - Paleofuture Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8w8Fz )
asciilifeform: and, related to above thread, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2014#567692 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2014 17:33:21; asciilifeform: people don't seem to grasp the fact that the situation in 'shall be delivered' is as inevitable as that first street drunk who electrocuted himself in the 1870s (?)
mircea_popescu: quite.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1119 @ 0.00092474 = 1.0348 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps the historical picture in my head is incomplete, but i just can't grasp the portrait of orwell as cockless worm.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ruling elite of his time/place showed every symptom of having 'lost the mandate of heaven', to use the chinese term of art tailor made for this
asciilifeform: what political tack would you imagine he'd have taken, if he had not been a lamer (as pictured in your article) ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97050 @ 0.00041582 = 40.3553 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95600 @ 0.00041767 = 39.9293 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 12624 @ 0.00022571 = 2.8494 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: <chetty> [] and you had to rent the state company ones// coming soon to us, internet public utility will make it so << pretty much here already in the states
danielpbarron: ben_vulpes, did you just try to connect to my node?
ben_vulpes: no sir
ben_vulpes: i'm reading logs from days past, not hacking
danielpbarron: heh, someone did, and it's not configured to serve blocks at the moment
danielpbarron: hey at those QNTR prices, I made ~5 bucks per article i wrote. not bad :D
danielpbarron: better than refreshing a faucet
ben_vulpes: great intangibles
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform not a fan of 'pattern matching' languages << i worked with a database with queries in datalog recently.
ben_vulpes: "datomic"
ben_vulpes: a real joy to work with
ben_vulpes: ;later tell sergiohlb your cloak is getting applied *after* you join
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell sergiohlb your cloak is getting applied *after* you join
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: how many countries have to be fighting a war for the phrase "world war" to apply?
trinque starts catching up on news
trinque: ben_vulpes: good afternoon!
ben_vulpes curls tighter into a hangover ball
trinque: lol
adlai: by that logic, world war iii is the 'war on drugs'
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] interesting idiots are sometimes (temporarily) tolerated. tedious idiots - never. << /me waves
adlai: [] really is getting quite tedious
adlai is a fan of dropping in a url and letting assbot do the heavy lifting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.00041039 = 10.7317 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] actually i'm kinda half curious how many us based conf attendants discover at the border that the newly expanded tsa doth not agree their passport holds any value. << me too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 185100 @ 0.00041726 = 77.2348 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu: failure of imagination ^ here. more interestingly, we could, say, go on a 'disappearing' plane. or, more comically, turned out on the return leg: 'we've never heard of you, go and starve in mexico city where you came from'
ben_vulpes: i've a feeling argentina'd welcome me with open arms.
asciilifeform glad for ben_vulpes's good fortune
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't buy the malicious usg. thing is purely reactive, and only within the logic of itself.
asciilifeform wonders what ben_vulpes is still doing in his jail
ben_vulpes: join "anonymous", go on watch list
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: shorting shartups
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: filling tank
ben_vulpes: mod6, asciilifeform: forgive my naivte, but what's the recommended approach to efficiently toggling between versions of libs for compiling cturds? in particular, ssl for bitcoind.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: study the example in 'portatronic'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: limiting the conversation to gcc variants, the command line lib and include flags take precedence for search paths
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: see the vars set in build.sh; then look at the top of makefile.unix (bitcoind)
asciilifeform: where LIBS is set
asciilifeform: ditto for DEFS
asciilifeform: the act of toggling versions of libs breaks into these two things, headers (.h) and the libs themselves (for linker.)
ben_vulpes: gotcha
asciilifeform: if anyone is confused about this mechanism, please say. because it is quite central to the whole thing.
ben_vulpes: i start to understand how badly the c toolchain messes with ones head
ben_vulpes: there are all of these things that make sense in the context of it, but...
asciilifeform: in the list of miseries of c/cpp work, this is somewhere near the very bottom.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56039 @ 0.00042148 = 23.6193 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36361 @ 0.00042309 = 15.384 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: right! it's totally innocuous.
ben_vulpes: spittoon, though
asciilifeform: sss-schpluurk.
ben_vulpes: blech.
asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/02/parastoo-viasat-idirect.htm << lulzies
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8JlOt )
thestringpuller: lolol
thestringpuller: really would love to watch a Comedy show inspired by the work of ALF
thestringpuller: we can call it AFL
thestringpuller: ALF*
thestringpuller: https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmen.hotnews.bg%2Fuploads%2Ftinymce%2F2_alf.jpg&t=549&c=1T2zcHV8YJdx_g
asciilifeform: ^ lol, cross of 'et' and boar ?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] how do you plan to use it w/o a wallet ? << gotta move all the transaction generation logic out of the turd. implies a database replacement using something that can actually be queried, not a braindamaged k/v store.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] like, the node, which is an always on demon, and then various things connecting to it : such as other nodes, on the eth card, or the user, always on the specifically delegated interface, etc ? << working towards this is the root my plaintive cries about what it means to "bitcoinate"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105400 @ 0.00041061 = 43.2783 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: heard something about your city today lol
ben_vulpes: something indescribeably stupid, no doubt
thestringpuller: i guess. they said the city is a hipster factory.
ben_vulpes: who?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-02-2015#1011593, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2015#1011595 << /me raises his hand ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 06:06:39; mircea_popescu: ironically, irc was a big thing when i was a teen. then pretty much forgot about it. only rediscovered it in a frustrated attempt to make sense of the ever mounting idiocy that bitcoin appeared to be.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 06:06:54; danielpbarron: hah same here
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: buddy of mine who works at the intel plant up there.
thestringpuller: he was like "I've become a hipster even though I was an anti-hipster"
thestringpuller: so they brainwashing people out there ben_vulpes ?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/rcQaef4yYJyn/info/moia-masterskaia << charming
assbot: Моя мастерская with subtitles | Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8LfPk )
ben_vulpes: "common household tools"
ben_vulpes: hah and of course a windows machine
ben_vulpes: these old fab hands and their msboxen
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: D1X can do strange things to a man.
ben_vulpes: but uh normally the fab does not produce hipsters, no.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the non-obvious tidbit in the film is that the man can afford those digs without being especially loaded
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: one could get a similar space in some parts of usa, but it would be under 24/7 orc siege and security costs for parity with the pictured workshop would dwarf the rent
ben_vulpes: i did notice the door was unlocked.
asciilifeform: not much of a door, either
ben_vulpes: right
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: define orc
ben_vulpes: fwiw there aren't many orcs in the rural bits of ussa, and one can shoot trespassers on sign in those provinces too
asciilifeform: ^ we've seen what happens to folks who actually try
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92300 @ 0.00042263 = 39.0087 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: most recently, we've seen what happens to people who shoot each other in the suburbs
asciilifeform: perhaps if the tresspasser is white/anglo, it is overlooked.
thestringpuller: it's okay to shoot a nigga in the hood.
thestringpuller: when you shoot him in the suburbs, everyone loses their shit.
ben_vulpes: out in the woods, the sop (as i understand it, not having pulled this particular hat trick myself) is to fire a warning shot, shoot the invader, and then call the sherrif.
asciilifeform: but notice that the pictured workshop is not built into the man's home, presumably he is not present there 24/7.
ben_vulpes: what is different there? why no orcs or plunderers?
asciilifeform: when i said 'security cost', it does not necessarily refer to tanks or rockets
thestringpuller: !s orc
assbot: 50 results for 'orc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=orc
ben_vulpes: actually asciilifeform i contest this stance
ben_vulpes: i've worked in minimally secured shops
ben_vulpes: with tens of thousands of dollars in hardware
ben_vulpes: and more in fancy woods
ben_vulpes: subspace in busy warehouse, not much by way of rent or opportunities for theft.
asciilifeform: 'nobody knows this is not a warehouse full of old shoes' is not 'minimally secured'
asciilifeform: it's the best security there is.
asciilifeform: but the workshop fella posted that to 'youtube' and was not afraid of being robbed. (however, long after, he since moved, to a larger space, iirc.)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: your warehouse had heat? 3-phase current? private apartment out of sight of other tenants ?
asciilifeform: and a total lack of draconian conditions in lease ?
asciilifeform: e.g., were you free to live in and legally receive mail there, if you wished ?
ben_vulpes: people lived there yeah
ben_vulpes: and yes, there was 3-phase.
ben_vulpes: decent shaper requires 3-phase.
ben_vulpes: granted, we had to run it from the mains entry point *ourselves*
ben_vulpes: and the guy who ran the place had his own out-of-sight apartment that was rarely shown to other tenants
ben_vulpes: lease was month-to-month
ben_vulpes: i grow to suspect that you see all of the ussa as a homogenous enforcement environment.
asciilifeform: sounds very spiffy, but i notice ben_vulpes is referring to this business arrangement in the past tense
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why'd you leave ?
ben_vulpes: which makes sense, coming from an inhabitant of the Forbidden City
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: career change.
asciilifeform: so, not so cheap that one could budget it as lunch money ?
ben_vulpes: the risk of losing my hands was not worth the pay.
asciilifeform: i mean, to keep the space for pleasure
ben_vulpes: for a man with income, surely.
ben_vulpes: a pauper like myself, though?
asciilifeform not so foolish as to think about 'homogeneous enforcement environments', knows that there are, e.g., vast deserts in usa where folks set off trucks full of dynamite for amusement, etc.
ben_vulpes: "drive by shooting gallery"!!
ben_vulpes: http://blip.tv/weird-america/weird-america-the-drive-by-shooting-gallery-446214
assbot: Watch Weird America :- The Drive-by Shooting Gallery -: | Weird America Episodes | Learning Videos | Blip ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8MKwW )
asciilifeform: it all exists, yes. and the folks who live there are almost qualified to graduate out of usa.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what is it about that place that provides for space and security at such a low cost?
ben_vulpes: for that matter, where is it?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: leningrad
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aka st petersburg, petrograd
ben_vulpes: mwell
asciilifeform: i don't know the author personally, no. he's just a blogger.
asciilifeform: and what provides for security is that he lives in (laugh, but) the civilized world
ben_vulpes: i'll not laugh, no.
ben_vulpes: not at a term i don't understand.
ben_vulpes: what do you mean by "civilized world"?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at the risk of circularity, the place where you can easily make the kind of arrangement pictured in the film.
asciilifeform: notice that the author had no trouble procuring modern tools
asciilifeform: or materials with which to work
ben_vulpes: is the typical american to expect those to be hard to come by in the "civilized world"?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2015#997076 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 06:26:04; mircea_popescu: i live in the sticks.
asciilifeform: i distinctly recall that machine tools are uncommonly difficult to obtain in ar, for example
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2014#723925 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2014 22:22:37; benkay: the word i got was that large, tech-heavy equipment gets stalled at the border.
asciilifeform: (see also other threads re: same)