a111: Logged on 2018-12-18 22:25 asciilifeform: this thing was quite evidently built to be repairable, by dks et al.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-18 23:03 asciilifeform: usg used a fleet of bolix boxen for gulf war I logistics, and fuck knows what else, so in some dusty beetleman's desk it is 'coloured' as 'strategic', and so it gets passed from mallery to mallery.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, we briefly lulzed at some similar moron, had something about how "us still matters in air notwithstanding russia long owned its dumb ass". predictably, "because hurr".
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 21:42 asciilifeform: 'John Mallery @jcmallery_cyber 25 Dec 2017 Declinism is a psyop of adversaries...it was spread before during the Vietnam war.' << ahahahaha gold
mircea_popescu: anyway, they can talk till they drop. the republic owns the internet like it owns everything else that exists, and the entire space of the ~possibility~ of expression.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in passing, here's the lulziest "vulnerability" of the whole edifice : for some reason ustards decided that "inconsequentialism" is the golden key to victory, and therefore a) divorcing their thought process from any contemplation of the consequence of their actions and b) inducing everyone else to preoccupy themselves with "consequences" is the path to victory.
mircea_popescu: how exactly they imagine the dumb & deaf can win anything is anyone's guess, but there they go.
mircea_popescu: right ? all converges to the same idiocy, namely "mp doesn't seem to need to be concerned with consequences and so the path to be him is, you know, douchebaggin' it"
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's a rake particularly fit for the exact shape of their face, because the principal mental issue of anglotards is their overwhelming anxiety.
mircea_popescu: still, the ~reason~ anyone even maintains a general staff, as opposed to "shoulda killed them all, like stalin", is precisely that left to their own devices, tacticians find the rakes shaped like their face.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform best i can tell a) this happened under nigglet's reign and b) whole "great again" algo consists of "find me those orders we can still execute, and limit ordering to that".
mircea_popescu: well... smartphones are cheap, and fast food ever shittier.
mircea_popescu: entire pantsuit rage @trump can be readily decoded in terms of "how dare you consider consequences".
mircea_popescu: and to go back to the "thin english" thread : somehow it never occured to them the ~proper name~ for their ideology is "inconsequentialism". because english doesn't force such, which is why and how it's entirely inadherent to humour (in the odessa sense of term).
mircea_popescu: if it had, they might've noticed what the ~necessary correlate~ is. how's one to be inconsequential and important ?
mircea_popescu: there, took me five minutes typing and half a second's thought to demolish the intellectual produce of centcom since 2001.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: i mean, the point re "do not turn signal processor into state machine nor your wire into a cable" seems both time honored and uncontroversial.
diana_coman: yes, but going from vdiff to "being smart" of people sounds rather vicious to me
diana_coman: good - my re-reading makes for re-reading :D
diana_coman: ftr I don't mean it in the sense that anyone in there got attacked; simply in the sense that it started from something and ended up in an entirely (if totally valid!) different place
diana_coman: not unusual for conversations in #trilema either
diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, that sounds...dubious for a summary! but thanks!
mircea_popescu: i think maybe the problem is that we omitted " around the smart, though the intention transparently is "smart as understood by mainstream idiots".
mircea_popescu: part of the problem being that we traditionally use " to render pantsuit nonsense, and i suppose it ended up coloring the quotes or something.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, well, someone has to make them for them to exist at all! and yeah, this one is significantly longer and also took a couple of hours more; I suspect the longer I go back the longer it will take because more recent ones have the advantage of being relatively fresh in my mind - I keep up with the log throughout the day to some extent anyway
a111: Logged on 2018-11-09 09:02 Mocky: of course 'smart toasting' was the opposite of smart
a111: Logged on 2018-10-18 18:57 mircea_popescu: which i stand behind, ftr ; and it is also what informs the "if they had any sense -- they'd be here" stance. the fact that rando can't cut through fetlife to find the meat / can't cut through internet to find trilema / can't cut through femstate to find bitcoin / can't cut through pantsuitism to find republic etc specifically means that rando is dull, ie, not smart.
mircea_popescu: "how about you don't have to keep an empty diff around and in exchange get a stated diff" is exactly like "how about you no longer have to check oil in car and instead have to hitch rides on highway"
diana_coman: yes; that's the sense of smart in there, sure; does it seem different from the summary or what?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you're very likely right, i expect a major stone on nicole's back was precisely this : man re-reading has to reconstruct a cognitive structure. cost of this is 0 for man who's been reading and has it pre-built ; cost is small for man who lost it, but was there and knows how to build it. cost is immense for man that tries to learn how to build at the same time as building.
diana_coman: in the original discussion in the logs; my q is whether the summary seems to miss the point somehow/convey a different "smart" ?
mircea_popescu: i think the summary takes smart as a neutral symbol, whereas in the logs it was used as a very overloaded symbol.
diana_coman: hm, I did not read it as a neutral symbol, hence my "" for it; but I don't really know how to convey more clearly that it's the opposite of actual smart (other than either explicitly noting that or using the "" that seems to fail to work)
mircea_popescu: honestly, i think you have it. the quotes are there, the discussion is here, he who reads understands.
mircea_popescu: i think what ~really~ happened was term vicious switched parser into interpreting ~your~ quotes as neutral (she's taking from the log) whereas they were in fact overloaded (she's using them to convey faux smart tone on being smart).
mircea_popescu: specifically : all communication relies on trees ; the presence, the order, ~and absence~ are all meaningful, and meaning is extracted from communication by adding and removing from a mind-held space of possibilities according to what is said, in what order it is said, ~and what is not said~. because certain absences, just as certain ordering, deny certain possible meanings just as well as if they were denied explicitly.
mircea_popescu: natural language, however, ablates the trees for "convenience" so to speak, ie, uses commonly what's known in computing as sparse trees.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: it is definitely there. but then again you can't, practically, neither emit orally a Titem array nor forbid people to think of large arrays.
mircea_popescu: also why bureaucratic language becomes such a laughingstock (aka, "limba de lemn") the ~better~ it gets : it takes this devil's hand, and makes the trade, accepts narrower domain for better specificity.
mircea_popescu: the fundamental difference between my harem, which is fun, and army service, which is and can be anything but fun, is that the girls ~don't~ know what all there is, bad or good, nor how to say it. not everything's a list, not everything's a procedure, the scary butts its head in almost daily. but what can you do.
diana_coman: I can also add that doing those summaries is useful in cementing my previous idea that they really have to be done manually - there's no way to link the various bits and pieces correctly without actually understanding the content; even with pointers from one line to another, even with some set of terms and definitions , it would still likely fail
mircea_popescu: diana_coman and yet google "built ai" which "won at go".
mircea_popescu: (i will propose go "with a general adversary", glory-hole go so to speak, is about on the complexity level of log summarizing, +- constant)
diana_coman: I'm sure it can also fully and without problems "summarize" the twitter twatter
mircea_popescu: diana_coman welcome to the horror of all time : a lot of shit to summarize, specifically driven by and existing specifically because previous efforts at summarizing.
mircea_popescu: as general compression theory predicts, it is ~extremely hard to summarize~.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 16:47 diana_coman: awww, Mocky
BingoBoingo: New York, once again stealing stealing from
mircea_popescu: "nd resulted in the misuse of charitable assets for the benefit of Donald J. Trump ("Mr. ("Trump") Trump" and his personal, political and/or business interests. In sum, the Investigation revealed that the Foundation was little more than a checkbook for payments to not-for-profits from Mr. Trump or the Trump Organization." << i don't get it... so was it used for his benefit or at his cost ?
mircea_popescu: ie, do they object money was flowing into trump or that it was flowing out of trump ?
mircea_popescu: seems to me a rather pompous case of "oh, you used this room to funnel moneys to charities dedicated to hanging fat old black women rather than feeding hobos ? WE TAKE THE CHAIRS!!!"
mircea_popescu: yeah, but the sort of reports they make, that 6mn is ~40k
mircea_popescu: where's that log link of yours re the weighing of contraband ? "this car had roach in dash so we captured car's weight of marijuana" ?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 16:51 asciilifeform: ( sorta how you see sentences for '10kg of lsd', which has never existed and probably will never exist on planet earth; they weigh whatever reagents, incl water )
mircea_popescu: (i suspecvt 2016 on the basis of "most recent", otherwise "it's 2017 tax return", "its last year's tax return" etc.)
mircea_popescu: ie, rather than your interpretation above, i see it as a "in 2016, trump won election, 5979th item on his agenda was how apparently state of new york decided to "investigate" some foundation. he shook his hand and moved on, two years later the morons finally got something to flash in media, and precisely nothing else, even locating where the chairs are anymore is impossible)
mircea_popescu: i expect there's in excess of a million "dormant", ie, entirely abandoned such legal entities in the state of new york. i further expect their paper assets exceed a billion.
mircea_popescu: wanna go treasure hunting through the streets of brooklyn, looking for the missing billion ?
mircea_popescu: people with money make these ~regular basis. sorta how you buy sheets of paper.
mircea_popescu: sometimes, you open a drawer and dscover rats ate some paper. not commonly at your residence, but you're only one and there's many residences. and warehouses. and so on.
mircea_popescu: yes, that's my reading. "a suitcase claimed to have carried trump's clothes at so point no closer than two years ago, having been encountered by a hobolice officer, was now officially transferred into state coffers".
mircea_popescu: "the price on 5th avenue of such a suitcase (or a similar one, as close as could be found) new is a little more than 1.7 dubaloos. thereforee..."
mircea_popescu: nfi, i don't watch this so closely. but on the strength of data presented...
mircea_popescu: didn't he own a tower in buenos aires and shit like that ? wtf million.
BingoBoingo: He recently put up a tower in Punta Del Este
mircea_popescu: which also, owns 11 littoral combat ships, owes > 9000
mircea_popescu: haha, forget about it. clinton's career is deader than disco. she's gone to join her paramour, condolezza rice.
mircea_popescu: except she was a pretty smart white girl, rather than an ugly stupid black girl.
mircea_popescu: but, in this world, one generally gets what one wants.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ie, do they object money was flowing into trump or that it was flowing out of trump ? << US folks set these things up and set the to keep warm. If the kids don't fuck him at the end of life thing gets filled and kid gets to draw a salary and "philanderanthropist" job title on their CV
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean "the broader clitler" as in literal cockroaches and assorted vermin ?
mircea_popescu: yes well. if actuarial science teaches anyhing, it's that it is likely the dullest son who inherits.
mircea_popescu: kinda why inheritance is such a suspect device in the first place.
mircea_popescu: Mocky did yo uget butthurt at something she said that i've not got to read eyt ?
Mocky: just read the summary, got a chuckle. 'tis tru!
mircea_popescu: honestly i don't think we have nearly enough drama. a serious project would have more drama.
Mocky: fuck you mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: you mean, "all i got -- is a passport" or you mean "all i got -- is fuck you mp!" ?
Mocky: comfort with ambiguity
Mocky: i have an interview over video momentarily
mircea_popescu: pro tip : this thing exists specifically as an umbrela term of irreducible reality. it was made as such and deliberately, by people from the 70s.
mircea_popescu: now these fucktards go about with a unified view of "the thing specifically declared as unifiable".
mircea_popescu: if there's anything in the world more insulting than the passage of time i can scarcely imagine what the fuck it'd be. but i suspect i know how moses feels every time danielpbarron quotes the bible : exactly how i feel every time one of these inconsequential schmucklettes discuss "the concept of bdsm".
mircea_popescu: "religious" folk are ~really fucking lucky~ no gods exist.
mircea_popescu: "Mircea Popescu validates Mocky's feelings on this matter. " ahahahah
mircea_popescu: i see it ; buyt possibly went to modqueue because linked ave's thing
diana_coman: and yes, it was in modqueue because of link
a111: Logged on 2018-12-18 13:14 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-18#1881345 << already replied that he got'em on paper, but in treasure chest on wrong coast ( he moved to west. ) i answered with offer to pay his flight to get'em plus what to make it worth his while. no answ to this just yet.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 19:44 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf turns out i was wrong re the rom, the rom-shaped object is actually a 1980s 'programmable event timer' thingie, am2971adc
a111: Logged on 2018-12-18 22:40 asciilifeform: phf srsly what gives ? wai not just post the uncensored dump. dks certainly aint coming to moscow to shit in your air conditioner.
mircea_popescu: i suspect "we can fix your pals" would be mega business. if, of course, bolix prices weren't utter bs, and if, of course, anyone wanted them ~for an actual purpose~. neither of which...
mircea_popescu: sspeaking of which -- i wanted to play pinball. girls went all over town. no pinball machine exists in a costa rican arcade.
mircea_popescu: no shortage of emulators. if you're gonna emulate, ima emulate atop my computer not atop some idiot's alarm clock
mircea_popescu: not even specific nostalgia. people go to museums not strictly because "oh, i recall my childhood of bering spartan!!!"
mircea_popescu: there's a certain carnality of existence. unlike the ghoistly quality of emulation, imagination, etc.
mircea_popescu: i suppose older writers told it in terms of "the shame", "l'embarass". obects that exist have to populate the whole array ; whereas objects that do not exist get away with natural-language sparse existence
mircea_popescu: whether the "spurious" set bits are shameful or on the contrary, soothing, depends i suppose on the mental age of the observer.
mircea_popescu: people born in prehistory don't have access to the future.
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881853 << i was the only person who showed up to do dull, manual job, when there was a need for it. i can't leak it because i promised not to. there will be no consequences for me, but i made a promise to multiple people, for whom there might be consequences, and it's not my place to evaluate whether that's true or not. that said that doesn't mean that i can't use knowledge this way acquired to help
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 18:26 asciilifeform: phf i'm pretty curious how you got the fella to spill.
phf: you. you'll just have to trust me that i'm not intentionally hiding things from you, but making honest effort to see what relevant bits are available.
phf: asciilifeform: no, none of the documents i have can end up on the internet in their current form
mircea_popescu: phf this is the republic not the guardian ; there's no yellow dots.
phf: mircea_popescu: what do you mean?
phf: oh oh english Guardian
mircea_popescu: it can not be the case that you are the only one holding whatever useles, worthless moth ridden crapola.
mircea_popescu: it therefore can not be the case that you can be uniquely identified as responsible for the leak.
mircea_popescu: in short, you're doing a danielpbarron, and it's going to go exactly as well as his.
mircea_popescu: you ~wanna~ stick with whatever "multiple people", please go right ahead, and right now.
mircea_popescu: i am however NOT dealing with people who have your sort of committment outlay.
☟︎☟︎ phf: so i'm not trusted at all?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: you are trusted for as long as you behave in the trustworthy manner.
mircea_popescu: when you say "x > republic", you forfeit whatever trust you might have had.
mircea_popescu: it makes exactly zero difference what peculiar form of "fatherinlaw/god/whatever" the x takes.
phf: my approach to this is to find compromise, i've volunteered all the information i've volunteered so far. i'm making a point that whatever asciilifeform might need for his work i can communicate to him. is this approach not acceptable? it seems that i'm just being pressured into dumping a dump of unknown quality and state, that might or might not help
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: phf i expect the accumulated value of the whole pile of "secrets" is about 0. and i further expect the entire value of the whole bolix stack neatly approximates the value of my stock of pogos.
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: there was no concrete goal until last week, when you decided to buy a macivory
mircea_popescu: the discussion here in no way revolves the value, extant imagined or presumed of some idiots caches.
mircea_popescu: the discussion here revolves around your attempt to introduce some kind of superior consideration, and im telling you neatly that if you think in this way there is not now nor will ever be in the future a place for you here.
phf: mircea_popescu: i made that point in logs multiple times, having had a chance to look at a variety "gold chests"
mircea_popescu: and consequently, rather than discover this fundamental truth later, discover it now, and save your own time/
a111: Logged on 2018-12-16 19:15 mircea_popescu: and more generally, if it's a "oh, #trilema is item #608 on my list of 1850 vaguely maybe interesting items i found on the internet, among which i read to pass the time waiting for the bus or w/e" sorta affair forget about it altogether, there's 0 interest in supporting that kinda imbecility/pluralism/skepticism.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am aware you think it valuable, and i have no problem with that, your business, how your lab works, enjoy.
mircea_popescu: i don't happen to agree, is all, but this with no prejudice.
phf: mircea_popescu: so the principle is that any obligation outside of the republic is not only invalid, but actually anti republic? there can be no compromise on this point.
phf: the last sentence above is a question
phf: also just to clarify the choice presented to me is either i'm leaking the dump, or i'm out?
mircea_popescu: any obligation outside the republic is invalid ; any obligation that conflicts with republican work is anti-republic. this is some discovery ?
mircea_popescu: as it did bar that scmuck ; so will it bar all in the future.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-18 15:12 mircea_popescu: to write about divinity interestingly, one needs to be aware of a ~shitload~ more stuff than is available at oklahoma public library, is the thing.
phf: asciilifeform: well not literally, but in this case the source will be trivially identifiable
phf: well, because i did all the manual work to scan the physical papers, there's litereally three people who have this dump
phf: i don't know how you missed my previous sentence, none of these people have "the dump", because there's no dump outside of the work i did.
phf: i took saeculum promises specifically to assist with republican work. i think that dumping this dump as is is short sighted, because the dump by weight is garbage, and will trivially identify all involved. i want to at least evaluate what's in it that can be of assistance to asciilifeform, an identification that became necessary only a week ago.
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: when i communicated with you, in private, about the dump in the past, your response was essentially "i'm not making any promises, i'm going to dump the whole thing on the internet", i've attempted to communicate to you that further value can be extracted from that relationship, if you're patient. your reaction to that was to start talking about whisperers etc. and then you come back with "i wonder how you got your hands
☟︎ phf: on it?" is this not fucking contradictory. and now i'm basically in a position, where from your demands and impatience i'm presented with a choice "either do this or you're out"
mircea_popescu: i don't even care, past the (i'd have thought obvious) point whereby specific lines of argument simply can't be brought.
phf: asciilifeform: i don't know what you're proposing, because you haven't proposed anything. i've proposed that i go through the dump, find all the relevant bits to your project, and communicate them to you. this is apparently unacceptable
phf: asciilifeform: there's this general position that what you're doing, you're doing to get yoursefl a running bolix clone, where's i'm just fucking around, which is bullshit. i'm doing the same thing, towards the same goals. it's not presently clear who's more successful. you basically want me to unilaterally fuck up my entire operation, because ~last week~ you bought a macivory.
mircea_popescu: well so what, you must proceed in parallel cuz gods willed it ?
phf: asciilifeform: last year i made a bunch of scans, that were almost entirely duds, you were as insistent on a release as you are now. this would've prevented this year's scans, that are potentially more relevant to your work.
phf: you're constantly in logs, confused as to how anyone can get anything from anyone, yet now you're questioning my methods.
☟︎☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: for fucks sake, this whole argument started with me basically going "i'm going to go over all that i have and find bits that are relevant to your current work"
phf: asciilifeform: because presumably we both can discriminate things, otherwise what is the point of my lordship?
phf: asciilifeform: you're reading selectively. _i_ was expecting to see dirt yr+ ago, there was none. it was totally a waste of work
phf: asciilifeform: ok, you can't possibly fucking hold this against me. that was your private project, that you never communicated in the logs.
phf: as far as snap you've jumped to conclusions from an offhand remark, and you're holding on to it for dear life, like with everything else in this conversation.
phf: i don't know when i've learned about the source, it's on public github, i don't know if i've even seen you mention your snap4 work, or at which point i've forgotten it.
a111: Logged on 2014-03-01 03:56 asciilifeform: ;;google snap4 symbolics
a111: Logged on 2017-03-08 23:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did describe earlier, having concluded a few yrs ago that it is cheaper, easier, moar pleasant, to cut appart 'snap4' emulator (i have a pc build here ~with debug symbols~, comes apart in ida nicely) than to suffer with nitric acid and electron microscope
phf: asciilifeform: i actually remember that one, but you'll have to trust me that my assumption on reading this was that you had debugging scaffolding in order to observe its operation, because reading layers of bolix<-alpha<-x86 code is not particularly enlightening. you've since acquired the source and clearly opted for electron microscope route.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 16:48 phf: well, if we don't, i'll see if i can get an unlock through corporate channels, and just use it as a one off machine
phf: in order to run orig soft stably you need the os source code
phf: because you're going to run into timing issues as soon as you speed it up anywhere past xl speeds
phf: you can now run your emulator "stably" by simply downclocking it to xl speeds
phf: i've spent significant amount of time in the snap4 also, looking particularly at the ns bug, i've played with the relevant instruction. it's not missing, it's apparently not buggy either, there's nothing to publish. throttling the emu seems to eliminate it though
phf: there's no "docs", it's not some kind of mother lode of all things bolix. fwiw i went into as excited and with the same expectations you're imagining right now. there was a set of printed papers that primarily existed in pre-ivory days. they are mostly related to e.g. mechanical layout of the boards (the bulk of stuff was e.g. machining parameters of motherboards and cases, something i didn't even touch)
phf: that was last year's loot: junk upon inspection
phf: _3600_ _pre-ivory days_
phf: how much of this is genuine interest to replicate the damn thing and how much of this is just a blind "i want, now now now"?
phf: asciilifeform: yes. it is clearly labeled as such.
phf: asciilifeform: that is where we fucking started.
phf: asciilifeform: well, what's the point of me saying things and then you still stick to your original conceptions?
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881922 << i suspect the approach is particularly chaffind to asciilifeform because childhood trauma, "older brother keeping the good chocolate to eat with his gf". but this aside, it is problematic because it very much smacks of usg-style "here's the conclusions of some measurements we're not publishing".
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:29 phf: my approach to this is to find compromise, i've volunteered all the information i've volunteered so far. i'm making a point that whatever asciilifeform might need for his work i can communicate to him. is this approach not acceptable? it seems that i'm just being pressured into dumping a dump of unknown quality and state, that might or might not help
phf: asciilifeform: if i followed your lead on this subject i would've had nothing. for all i know right now i still have nothing. i don't understand how you can't seem to connect that the answer to "how did you do it??" is in what i'm doing. if i'm not giving you anything, it's because i don't have it, or i don't know if i have it, which is something for me to evaluate.
mircea_popescu: there's a long history of "fuckers, phuctor" specifically driven by this behaviour, so no, it's not liable to be popular in general.
mircea_popescu: now, as to me personally, i find your behaviour deeply offensive for the following reason : i do not believe you speak accidentally, you're much too meticulous and lengthily silent for that. the only reconstruction of today's discussion that stands my read is, "well, at first he tried line x, see if they're morons enoujgh to buy it ; that failed, regroupped to line y".
mircea_popescu: what, if i hadn't said "you know, you can't propose whatever tards trump republican interest" that'd have ended up baked into precedent ? and what, i'm supposed to not notice this ? i notice.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm still discussing the line i quoted, i'm not yet at current log.
mircea_popescu: ie, not only do i have no use for some guy who's gonna publish whatever his mom finds "appropriate" ; but on 2nd pass i have no use for some guy fluffyponying it along.
phf: mircea_popescu: i act out of character once, and it's to my disadvantage. i got the original point, i didn't at any point expect that there's a way to avoid it.
mircea_popescu: right. anyways, carrying on :
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881922 << in the practical terms of doing things, the problem of unknowns stands that the man with a need and no chest doesn't know what to ask from the chest and the man with the ches and no need doesn't know what to send him.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:29 phf: my approach to this is to find compromise, i've volunteered all the information i've volunteered so far. i'm making a point that whatever asciilifeform might need for his work i can communicate to him. is this approach not acceptable? it seems that i'm just being pressured into dumping a dump of unknown quality and state, that might or might not help
mircea_popescu: there's no direct way to resolve this in the shot-over-bow manner, and you two have the disadvantage that being very unlike personalities with very unlike personal histories, you apparently get on each other's nerves.
phf: asciilifeform: you suspect wrongly, but you won't take my word for it either.
phf: asciilifeform: hence i said "but you won't take my word for it" yeah?
phf: asciilifeform: i have no issues with unfriendliness of your approach or it's secret busting nature. i'm trying different approach, and so far our success is identical in that it's 0. we're at a point where our mutual approaches can benefit, yet you deny me mine, periodically insulting it in creative ways.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:55 phf: i took saeculum promises specifically to assist with republican work. i think that dumping this dump as is is short sighted, because the dump by weight is garbage, and will trivially identify all involved. i want to at least evaluate what's in it that can be of assistance to asciilifeform, an identification that became necessary only a week ago.
phf: asciilifeform: wait, what? i said that _our_ approaches _both_ are _0_.
mircea_popescu: and now im in the unenviable position of thinking about nonsense. look here asciilifeform : the man says
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881968 and what am i to do ? remember that you're one of the principal idiots who decided to run their pizarro process throgh a encryptospitball, and before that you came up with the brilliancy that was "secret clauses" in pizarro nearly got ben_vulpes beheaded.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:58 phf: asciilifeform: when i communicated with you, in private, about the dump in the past, your response was essentially "i'm not making any promises, i'm going to dump the whole thing on the internet", i've attempted to communicate to you that further value can be extracted from that relationship, if you're patient. your reaction to that was to start talking about whisperers etc. and then you come back with "i wonder how you got your hands
mircea_popescu: so now. is the case as you publicly present it, "phf has been not helping for year +" or is the case as he publicly presents it, "i tried to help a year ago but granularity didn't match and then he went on a campaign of fuming about whisperers ''in general'' transparently in reference to the particuylar case and i was stuck sitting and listening to it."
mircea_popescu: maybe you did, but as a factual matter it's not clear to me.
mircea_popescu: well, so in simple terms, is 'your response was essentially "i'm not making any promises, i'm going to dump the whole thing on the internet"' a factual claim or isn't it ?
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:30 asciilifeform: phf: if dump weighs TB and (apparently) after whole year phf still not eaten it, might make sense to pgp to asciilifeform . i'ma not post the raw docs and their yellowdots.
phf: asciilifeform: it's clear now, i believe it changed drastically literally today, up until now i believe it was as i was made to understand it.
mircea_popescu: so basically, the facts of the matter is, "at some point in the distant-er than month but closer than decade past", phf wanted to tell you some things and you took a hard line "just dump the thing", which he didn't want to do. then recently, having bought some parts and being less theoretically and more practically minded, you revised your stance ~in your own mind~ to
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881964 and so on, but n
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:55 asciilifeform: phf: i aint proposing to put the thing on ftp as-is.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 21:08 mircea_popescu: your management of private communication is ~appaling~.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 20:04 asciilifeform: nao, if phf thinks that asciilifeform cracking the case ~at all~ will 'unmask' phf's informant, this is a problem. chiefly for phf's informant, because i ~will~ rape bolix, whether anyone helps or not
mircea_popescu: so far you've learned that if you learn or don't learn it's not apparently a process within your control. which in itself needs some examination.
mircea_popescu: you don't ~have to~ need me to read this three times instead of playing dungeoneers
mircea_popescu: could for the same money have "hey phf-- i know i said so and so in the past, but truth be told now i got these chips and i'd like to get some work done, so how about..."
mircea_popescu: talking to a girl doesn't result in an obligation to fuck her. or marry her. or raise her offspring. you're just talking.
phf: that's not a promise that i made, and this is a misrepresentation of my position. unfortunately i can't find the relevant pgpgram, but i believe i made it clear that i don't want this publically discussed, because obviously if any of the interested parties were to read this conversation, their reaction would be "waitaminute". i never the less offered to share what i have, but i never got a confirmation that you can just keep quite on
☟︎ phf: the subject. perhaps i should've made it clear that _knowledge gained this way is yours to keep_. in response i got constant, year long abuse directed _as i believe it was_ at least partially my way about whisperes and conspiracies.
phf: where's the reality as i see it, is that you were offered some stuff, and your reaction was i'm my own king i do as i want
phf: not only that, but _immediately_ after your started on the whole whisperer thread
phf: look i told you about the stuff basically as soon as i came back _from a photoshoot_, gigs of photos, need to be sorted through. i communicated as much. the whisperer stuff started way before i had a chance to do anything about it. i mean what the fuck. it's like "i'm the greatest bolix liberator, and everyone else working towards it is an obscurantist and a cunt, unless they blog their shit right now". how am i not supposed to take
phf: this personal, on top of the fact that it low key compromises what i'm trying to do?
phf: and more important how can i trust you into the process if your basic approach on the subject is shoot from the hip?
phf: asciilifeform: not your _effort_, your _rants_ but more importantly _this very conversation_.
phf: asciilifeform: it's a fucking rhetorical question.
phf: asciilifeform: there was already _one_ conversation, i made my _conclusions_. your adventage is that you can basically just rant in the open, make insulting fucking statements in "general direction" of those bolix whisperers. where's i lose by having this in public record. i told you as much _at the very beginning_. but you clearly shit on my efforts, i mean you have been saying as much in public for a year, so you don't lose anything
phf: from this conversation, where's i potentially do. fucking three years of relationship building.
phf: yes, and it can continue this way, until i either have non-0, or it all amounts to nothing. how's that a problem? it's my fucking work.
phf: asciilifeform: you're making selective conclusions from what i'm saying, i don't see any point in further communicating my point.
phf: yes, my whole goal is to have a bunch of useless bolix junk, that i can mallory on top till i die.
phf: asciilifeform: i don't believe me repeating myself on this point will make a difference, i've already said it, but you've already made your conclusions.
phf: actually i'm not sure i said it in the logs, so my bad. i want a fully operational bolix fpga, or in the future other type of replica, complete with genera sources and other such bells and whistles
trinque: peanut gallery over here, but have you two ever sat down and discussed same in meat?
phf: i got it, there's the honest proper asciilifeform way which is all success stories and high ratings. and then there's the usg, cuck way of actually talking to people.
trinque: asciilifeform: I believe it, as this thread reads like mutually talking straight past.
mircea_popescu: trinque there seems to be a halting problem somewhere buried in there, among various other maladroitisms.
trinque: you know, like that time trinque and phf got into it, and probably would've wised up pages back if but for a friendly thrown fist
trinque doesn't mean in phf's direction either!
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 20:09 phf: you're constantly in logs, confused as to how anyone can get anything from anyone, yet now you're questioning my methods.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 21:00 asciilifeform: and especially , deliberately unfriendly to whoever profits from the seekrederpery. in fact, i will know when my reversing has succeeded when a bolix collector somewhere at last eats his pistol because his $100k stash of irons is now worth == 8bit nintendo.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 21:32 phf: that's not a promise that i made, and this is a misrepresentation of my position. unfortunately i can't find the relevant pgpgram, but i believe i made it clear that i don't want this publically discussed, because obviously if any of the interested parties were to read this conversation, their reaction would be "waitaminute". i never the less offered to share what i have, but i never got a confirmation that you can just keep quite on
mircea_popescu: indulge me for a moment, if you will, and make sense of this salad. why exactly would you ~care~ about the relationship with some morons who ~actually read~ the logs and then douchebag out of the republic ? "because they know really interesting secrets" ? you genuinely believe this is possible, people being both so fucking stupid as to opt out of the republic, and so fucking smart as to have anything, ~anything whatsoever~ to
mircea_popescu: and moreover, from the other side, "fiat bolix, pereat mundus, ruat caelum" ? "i am ~so dedicated~ to reconstructing this 80s atari, i am willing to spend however long living with and among fucktarded orc populations, at the risk of my brain rotting like boas'" ? did you actually think this through and that's how it came out ?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:10 asciilifeform: apeloyee: the other thing to consider, is that the preserved bolix material has ~unspeakably~ rich ( and quite high snr ) collection of artifacts, perhaps 1000 asciilifeform-years of work. take the ns vlsi compiler alone. i have the binaries, but not the src. and ~someone~ will have to make a sane (i.e. fully lispified and zero-externals) vlsitron.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 19:56 asciilifeform: apeloyee: but on the other hand any attempt to build a sane arch, without fully grasping the bolix stack, from ic to the compiler, is lunacy.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 04:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is free to be as 'unpersuaded' as he wants. fact: his machine -- can overrun an array; bolix -- could not; his box -- crashes, cannot be examined or uncrashed (yes) -- bolix -- could; and various other aspects, well covered in teh logz.
phf: mircea_popescu: i care about the relationship for the stuff it can produce. i think i'm stuck in circular here. either i have nothing, and then the relationship have no value, but then this conversation is pointless. or else i have something, and the relationship is indeed capable of producing stuff.
phf: ignoring for a moment the general conclusion in multiple threads that bolix archeology is essentially a pointless hobby
mircea_popescu: yeah but i mean, capable when producing what etcetera. i never pursued a woman in my life, nor do i intend to ever start ; i hold no grudges for those who do, but you do understand ~an entire half of the species~ survived to the present day by ~exploting~ this behaviour of yours, yes ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so i have some air stashed away, i'll live.
mircea_popescu: not so far from monkeys, either, consider how the thing went, 1998-2018. but i think the thread's not worth rehashing.
mircea_popescu: phf this whole "i care about the relationship for the stuff it can produce" is very like what proust'd said.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform group of ~dead~ geologists in taiga, with working radios and smoking guns, WAY closer to monkey than the chucka female that told them each she's gonna put out the same night in the same place.
phf: mircea_popescu: well, i don't think this is quite like chasing women, i think of it more as a scavenger hunt.
mircea_popescu: phf i never heard of scavenger taking the loving tack to the quarry. usually scavenger sounds like alf sounds.
mircea_popescu: phf you want to say "if i can't discriminate then why am i lord", then you turn around and it's "either i have something or i don't have something." well, discriminate, which is it ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-10 16:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the strugatsky brothers, before sinking into senile delirium, had a tale 'roadside picnic', where unknown aliens land and leave buncha rubbish behind, and immediately depart. the rubbish includes 'usefuls', such as 'eternal batteries', but also various deadlies, and plenty of things 'in between', and earthling culture is rearranged by it.
phf: mircea_popescu: i've given a more nuanced answer over the logs. i've said that stuff from last year is junk, i'm not sure about stuff from this year, because i haven't inspected it yet. short of asciilifeform's periodic jabs, there was simply no reason to dedicate more time to it, considering that from a useful work perspective this is seen as a hobby, and i already have a backlog of things i actually need to be working on.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and you don't want him to be looking through it because whatever, not nice enough, and well...
phf: i made that point clear also, i believe he will spoil my hunt. he explicitly told me he will! as far as love for quarry, i assume that this particular log can potentially reach the quarry in question, and i suspect his reaction is not going to be to join the republic.
mircea_popescu: and you like her enough to overlook this, and so it goes.
phf: asciilifeform: fwiw i didn't ignore your point. i don't trust you with this stuff, and not because you're not trustworthy, but because you refuse to be discreet when asked to be. and again since this will be misconstrued, i'm not saying keep things secret, i was specifically asking you to _quitely_ use the products of my work.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: are these products factual products or putative products ?
phf: mircea_popescu: he can only use factual products
mircea_popescu: yes, but it seemed to me as if you only had putative products. hence it'd appear there's a mismatch.
☟︎ phf: mircea_popescu: well, the use is of factual products, the request to be discreet is for putative products.
mircea_popescu shrugs. "some things you might maybe one day get that he won't be able to use then anyway" seems an entirely over-ellaborate way to say "nothing".
mircea_popescu: anyway, your putative source of putative products that may one day do something or not could be upset or not for all the practical difference it makes.
BingoBoingo: Well, fwiw there's a business around the corner which sells putas by the half hour and by the hour. They don't seem to be folding anytime soon even with their lack of signage.