mircea_popescu: asciilifeform back in 2016 we might've even seen it, i think.
mircea_popescu: i suspect, by the way, that the web offers at least one useful number :
mircea_popescu: if you calculate the shelf life of pages by language space, as an average, you can actually meaningfully compare languages as cultural tools.
mircea_popescu: say the average page in english is obsolete in 6 days and in russian in 8 days ? well....
mircea_popescu: imo the best indicator of how culturally nil the pigdin is.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, if you prefer in-universe terms, "diverse", "aware", "inclusive" etc.
mircea_popescu: imo nothing wrong with using english AS LONG AS ITS NOT A FIRST LANGUAGE.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: speaking of which, very amusing circumstance : ran into teen girly, daugther of korean mother, who only speaks english, but speaks it WITH ACCENT.
mircea_popescu: prior to this encounter only had theoretical model of such wonder via... what is it you call the theory ?
mircea_popescu: you fished some name from teh scholarly tradition, which i now don't recall.
mircea_popescu: the empirical observation of degrees of wolfness supports the theory.
mircea_popescu: language isn't innate, but acquired, is the fundamental point really.
mircea_popescu: superficially, it's a vehicle for exploiting laura antonelli's tits.
mircea_popescu: but it is notable because it includes, to my knowledge the best on film, model of the deffectively insane.
mircea_popescu: fellow in there ~seems~ to be functional human, but is throughout thorouigh nutcase. in this exact sense, "this cpu only has half the registers and can only nop ?!"
mircea_popescu: yet italian supports him mightily in his otherwise doomed quest to appear human to the other humans.
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER... none of them can remember his name. because, see, he can't have one, because, see, he fails most of the handshakes. but nobody notices, because... he speaks italian.
mircea_popescu: eventually finds his place (unsurprisingly, @insane asylum).
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this exact scenario plays out a lot more than anyone reading ever realised before reading.
mircea_popescu: just about. anyway, i include the film in noob psychologists' training. which is how i reviewed recently.
mircea_popescu: to be perfectly clear, girly wasn't impaired, she just spoke what it happens to be she had heard. not of within, but of without, which is the point.
mircea_popescu: if you teach your kid your second language the kid's gonna speak it with your accent, and if you teach them english they're gonna think english thoughts rather than "their" thoughts and so following.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, am i the only one fascinated by the history of dyes ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-12 19:34 mircea_popescu: you know what a faberge egg is for instance ?
mircea_popescu: i think. i dunno, i just picked it off this very chan i think.
Mocky: sounds like a bill murrray, dan aykroyd "don't cross the streams" item
mircea_popescu: but to continue
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-16#1841967 : it's also a red thread particularly productive through the hermeneutic method. "why did the greeks care about the columns" type of inquiries work quite well, "why did someone like say heinrich caro dedicate a decade of his life to turkish red ?"
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-08-16 15:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not only 1. history of dyes ~= history of chem industry, for ~century
mircea_popescu: one of course has to even learn wtf alizarin is, in the process. but then again that is the entire method.
mircea_popescu: "when you read a text and can distinguish the absurdities it contains from the actual sense, you may claim you have an anachronistic understanding of the matter ; but when you read the text and clearly see the ~necessity~ of the absurdities, their fundamentally-required-ness, and the circumstantialness of the sense, you may claim meaningful understanding of the item" as the witticism goes.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: as it turns out, absurdity undergirths human thought, as a sort of rebar.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-16 14:03 mircea_popescu: imo nothing wrong with using english AS LONG AS ITS NOT A FIRST LANGUAGE.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-16 14:04 asciilifeform: as first lang, apparently it ~= lead poisoning
mircea_popescu: Mocky you could just as well take a woman or two and become mellifluous i mean multifluent.
mircea_popescu: contrary to what you might read into that, romanian also makes you fucking stupid. different kind, discussed at length on trilema though. divide & impera amirite, let the idiocy fight idiocy.
Mocky: so then "first langauge" less an issue than "only language"? so multi fluency
Mocky: s gonna chelate some fo that lead?
mircea_popescu: but in general, you want multiple languages for the exact reason you want multiple women, or shoes. howsoever comfortable, howsoever good, useful, proper, right, you name it, if you always use the same pair of shoes they'll become unseemly.
mircea_popescu: if you have $100, it's way better to buy two $40 pairs and a girl a drink than to blow the wad on a $100 pair of shoes.
Mocky: i can see that argument, but it completely sidesteps the "first language" claim
mircea_popescu: how do you explain most english speakers suffer from the turkish idiocy (or, manchuko idiocy, if you prefer), where they fail to learn other languages ?
mircea_popescu: italians naturally learn german, germans not so naturally. there's a fundamental problem with germanic languages ; and if one follows the tree, that problem is best realised in fino-ugric group.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 14:55 mircea_popescu: there's this joke in romania that "if you hear a hungarian speaking foreing languages you're looking at a jew".
mircea_popescu: tu quoque, have spent time and effort doing all sorts of things with your life, none of which are bad or wrong per se. yet it never occured to you "must learn language" in any effectual sense. this'd be a natural occurence though, wouldn't you say ? what disocurred it for you ? how come you went in all the rooms in the palace but one ?
mircea_popescu: ~that~ would be the "lead poisoning" rather than some sort of mystical, unexaminable, forever-opressive miasma. it's just the simple thing, "hey, axototl, no tail ?" "yeah... no iodine where i live..."
Mocky: i'm not in a position to say!
Mocky: it did occur to me. went to the dominican republic some years ago for a summer, started learning spanish. but had no use for it back in the states
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem with "happy" families is that they provide no intrinsic reason for offspring to "seek fortune" (as in the fairtyale trope).
Mocky: i do see it now actually, yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is the whole talk-to-kbd the replacement triple-fault to switch modes or whart ?
mircea_popescu: ave1 you know it's a pleasure to revisit my childhood in your company.
mircea_popescu: it's easy to read fast when you don't understand anything.
a111: Logged on 2015-08-02 22:53 asciilifeform: for instance, the 'a20 gate' is almost certainly not actually implemented in your chipset
mircea_popescu: aha. but i vaguely recall, from my days of doing this 2decades+ ago, that the way to put processor from real to protected mode or back was a triple fault
mircea_popescu: which i presume is WHY the gdr table is still 0 on 1st entry
ave1: I never looked into this in the 90s and now I have too learn
mircea_popescu: ave1 in my mind, this sort of elaborate incantatorial nonsense is why i nodded along at alf's screaming for new procs historically.
mircea_popescu: tbh i don't think anyone at all familiar with the functioning of hardware init can propose the tradition is worth continuing with a straight face.
ben_vulpes:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-16#1841997 << the otherwise-invisible failure to implement anything even approaching intelligence augmentation (or even the statistical AI crap) is never so obvious as when translating works in other languages on the touchscreendevices: why does 'iBooks' waste all of this time animating between the french and english translations of the book i'm working on; how is there after
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-08-16 15:56 mircea_popescu: italians naturally learn german, germans not so naturally. there's a fundamental problem with germanic languages ; and if one follows the tree, that problem is best realised in fino-ugric group.
ben_vulpes: all this time no auto-interlineated de toqueville; and on and on
ben_vulpes: turns out, absolutely no replacement for a large desk and several dictionaries
mircea_popescu: i manage quite well with digital lookup in dictionary flatfiles, but i suspect familiarity has a lot to do with it.
ben_vulpes began the exercise as a form of entertainment during a road trip recently; "hey baby what do you think of this translation" "what does X mean in context of Y"
mircea_popescu: (perseus incidentally makes the value of digital dict quite apparent ; they have linked word frequency counts, very good collations of multiple dict/thesauri etc)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indeed. thing is, last thinking men in english retreated in greek. amusing how this went.
ben_vulpes: trinque flagged whitaker's words for me as a latin dictionary (an ada artifact even!)
trinque: yep, no guarantee it'll remain wherever I found it
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 15:07 trinque: speaking of relics, I just dug up WORDS
mircea_popescu: also no guarantee it doesn't spark who knows what in who knows who's head.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the probable "cause" for there not being sane dict for living langs, you realise, is that there IS such a thing as a cannonical body of greek, but "who is to say what anglovomit does not make the cut".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: an' i betcha it's because they "don't feel" it "fair" to ~exclude~ anything. rendering any count impossible. which is very much the point.
ben_vulpes: kids would rather sit around the table gabbling about whatever problems 0.00003% of the population have instead of sitting down and reading old shit about universals as what apply to 99.99% of the population
mircea_popescu: the fact that anglotard english "does not have a cannonical body of works", the necessary result of "ameritards stole england's language but had no room in pocket for culture", resulted as it has in "no great american novel" makes it impossible for engl dept to see what classical lang dept did and do it one better.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: 'haskellism' thread for those who mighta got something out of socrates.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-16 16:38 mircea_popescu: the fact that anglotard english "does not have a cannonical body of works", the necessary result of "ameritards stole england's language but had no room in pocket for culture", resulted as it has in "no great american novel" makes it impossible for engl dept to see what classical lang dept did and do it one better.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's when Alexander Crummel died. Was a black nationalist who worked on making a black zion in Liberia, put skin into the game, mourned the results.
BingoBoingo: Anything after that including Kim's husband has to fall into the general case
BingoBoingo: The whole crummel story is lulzy. Pan African runs over to Liberia in 1853 to raise a Christian Republic... Returns to the US in fear of the ascendant Liberian mulatto caste.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Imma prolly have to do that in light of the parallels to Brazillian history.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-31 15:15 asciilifeform: whole thing quite resembles the 'silver coin glued to the asphalt' everyone encounters in childhood
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, lots of places have similar deals. The point is all those silicon valley pantsuits who thought they had an out. Waiting for their paper to carry them across the Pacific so they could retire to Pokemon Go and hobbit fucking in New Zealand, except... The window closed on them.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They needed that million to bid against the Chicoms
BingoBoingo: And German comes with a stipend if you convert to Islam
ben_vulpes: there's always the jail stiped if you fly over and then turn tail
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: pretty sure the brits do it too
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i mean the 'fly to terristostan, come home, get apprehended for aiding and abetting'
mircea_popescu: iirc trilema even published some real estate paperwork from my stay there
mircea_popescu: started in duodeniscadia, moved through cardia into washingtomach, now being excreted into texasbowel.
mircea_popescu: other than being the intercontinental asshole you mean ?
ben_vulpes: less blue hair and fewer kilts as i move through the digestive tract
ben_vulpes: haven't even heard a peep about putting trans rights into the corporate handbook in at least three years!
BingoBoingo: The problem with Mexico is the strong government that either might not like you or might decide to have fun with your holes
ben_vulpes: sadly, am peristalted into cardboardhouse bigzone
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes not really. ~only place auto is optional would be yurp.
ben_vulpes: ~only place builtup pre auto, not surprising
ben_vulpes: and while the uncleals are convinced it'll be highway maintenance that blows a crater in the usg budget, i have high hopes that the heavy metal poisoning from 'vape pen' use will eclipse it by a few orders of magnitude
mircea_popescu: afaik it's not even a "is x". if you're willing to spend some dough, like, buy a house or something, you can have it.
mircea_popescu: you register company, you have company receive some dough, which it can use however it pleases, such as buying you a dozen cars or a piece of real estate or w/e, then you use that for right of stay and eventually passport.
mircea_popescu: though might give you history / lang test, i dun recall
mircea_popescu: that will never happen ; usg will forever pretend you owe it money no matter what
mircea_popescu: i got a buncha girlies in "default" about imaginary "debts".
mircea_popescu: they'll be collected upon sometime after i fuck ivanka.
deedbot: diana_away voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: shed thirty years and three tonnes, do css on fiverr for bitdribbles
diana_away: eeringly similar to Romania not so many years ago on various levels
diana_away: although the diminutive toyota sort-of-cars are funy
diana_away: asciilifeform: lol! so far made inventory of wind turbines on top of hill, huge butterflies and weird, coloured insects
diana_away: and coconuts + vendor on a sort of trike
diana_away: mircea_popescu: I guess I'll give it another try, I never liked papaya; I do like those tiny bananas
mircea_popescu: gotta get it from the peasant guys rtho, supermarket fruit is ~ok.
mircea_popescu: that whole genera is very time bound, has 7 year periods and whatnot
mircea_popescu: insect timekeeping, it's a weird thing. possibly sideral.
trinque: we've got the cicadas up this way too, astonishingly loud
trinque: I like the alien little buggers
trinque: sound like they oughta be able to eviscerate a man in swarm
mircea_popescu: yes, this sort of thing happens, they have different periods so sometimes collide.
BingoBoingo: One of my university stints placed me in an emergence. pretty tasty critters.
BingoBoingo: But you gotta sort em. Males are nothing but shells full of air for the noise making. Gotta eat the females
deedbot: diana_away voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Congrats trinque on what appears to be the sync of your Pizarro node
ben_vulpes: haw someone just sent me an ad for a nylon "posture brace"; not that a brace is going to do anything for the lump of muscle developing at the base of millenial skulls from supporting their heads at a thirty-degree angle all day
ben_vulpes: the problem isn't your /posture/, kids, it's your /lifestyle/
a111: Logged on 2015-08-19 00:18 asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't actually know of this deformity
trinque: BingoBoingo: indeed, thanks!
trinque: about time I announced it, seems like
scriba: Logged on 2017-07-18: [05:45:01] <mircea_popescu> gotta cut the total male-years somehow, and chem cockcage prolly even cheaper than the steel item.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The fancy dope tends to cause less collateral damage when it works suddenly. When bottle takes suddenly usually a motor vehicle is involved
BingoBoingo: Well, that and the opportunity to run the printing press and spread bezzel to favored lizards bringing back a number of them along the way
trinque: I switched to aggression midway, after waiting months, and from there took a few weeks
trinque: before aggression, I saw long periods where it wasn't doing a damned thing
trinque: mod6: ^ whenever you get a chance, got a new node for ya
mod6: Thanks for letting me know.
jurov: asciilifeform: is it so easy to maintain the phase? i imagine that requires nanosecond precision clock or one central source with feed lines?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Precision clocks aren't too expensive if you aren't trying to fly them, but it's yet another thing to power
mod6: trinque: updated the Advertised Republican Node list with 161.0.121.250 - Cheers!