assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27947 @ 0.0005414 = 15.1305 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: nope its a feature not a bug
undata: gentoo/emacs/bitcoind quest
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14950 @ 0.00051918 = 7.7617 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up PeterL Congrats on keeping scoopbot up so long
PeterL: I finally figured out what was wrong
PeterL: It was taking time to check blogs for updates, and so would not respond to pings
PeterL: I put the blog checking onto a separate thread, and now it does not get kicked off from missed pings
mircea_popescu: heh so the sec is settling with all the actual scammers eh.
PeterL: what about football scammers? oh wait, the other SEC (I must ahve been reading too much bowl game previews)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.00054753 = 15.3856 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: PeterL: Mizzou got a New Years day game. Happy with the lack of scam there from the SEC.
PeterL: Mich State got a better bowl
BingoBoingo: For some definitions of better. Good for them.
BingoBoingo: They better. We need to start recruiting 300 pounders for our lines so maybe next time we can actually make plays against Alabama by means other than accident.
PeterL: Michigan State will win if they fix the holes exposed by Oregon and Ohio State (Baylor plays a similar spread offence to those teams)
jborkl: Sweet, great job coinbase security
BingoBoingo: So ran out to Grandpa's to replace the batteries in his TV remote. On the way to the store from his place say a big ass shooting star with a definite green tint.
BingoBoingo: Wonder if the lizards had something to do with it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29197 @ 0.00055103 = 16.0884 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Either that it was the avians comping to displace the lizards
mircea_popescu: meh on 2nd hand this isn't even worth the mention, and also ancient.
BingoBoingo: It's old news that popped up in my twatter feed again, prolly as part of some cold PR war between the web wallet turds
BingoBoingo: So in early bookmaking it looks like they are only giving a 2.5 point spread in the Bitcoin Bowl. That isn't even a field goal
BingoBoingo: iang: Are you the person danielpbarron pointed here?
iang: hmm maybe. Not sure who danielpbarron is tho
iang: although he’s not sure who I am either ;-)
BingoBoingo: Ah, apparently someone whose nick is a similar string of letters to yours encountered him on the twatter earleir today
gribble: Nick 'iang', with hostmask 'iang!~iang@skaro.afraid.org', is not identified.
gribble: Nick 'danielpbarron', with hostmask 'danielpbarron!~dpb@c-71-232-150-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net', is not identified.
iang: yup, not sure I can help, there are a few of us :D
mircea_popescu: iang so about this two decade cryptohistory of yours ?
iang: I could explain ;-)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34153 @ 0.00055572 = 18.9795 BTC [+] {2}
iang: hmmm. possibly but I’d have to go digging into detritus
mircea_popescu: probably the most important thing you can say right off.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46200 @ 0.0005079 = 23.465 BTC [-]
iang: hmmm.. well I’m theoretically limited to 2000 and even that is hard coz gpg doesn’t play nice
iang: the earliest key I have a password for, it seems
iang: or, the earliest that the current keyring admits to.
hanbot: oh that. still, 2000 much better than nothing.
iang: some things should stay buried under rocks
iang: In 2000 I was building precious metal exchanges. And staying out of trouble. Which almost snapped shut on me, the whole e-gold story :(
iang: Luckily I’d sent an email to the founders that said “you’re gonna get busted if you don’t fix it” and that told the feds I wasn’t their drone
iang: back in the days when we had only single servers and only single operators and only tunnel vision
BingoBoingo: Ah, I had recently discovered hypercard around that time
iang: rings a bell! remind me?
undata: non-web hyperlink programming environment for the mac
BingoBoingo: iang: It's the programming environment that shipped on the last of the real Macs. I had picked some up at an auction my school had and was playing with them as my first computers
iang: right… I recall the Mac people were emotional about it
BingoBoingo: At the time I had yet to have a computer at home so I bought a bunch of computers and spares for about $10 a pop
undata: trying to be like natural language
BingoBoingo: the environment, and the potential of the environment...
BingoBoingo: The only environment I've ever been similarly confident with was the old "Hot Dog HTML" that was included on the web design for dummies book cd at the local library
mircea_popescu: iang well alternatively there's always the half year's lurking an' reading logs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, until such a time as natural language works for coding, there won't be the "evil ai" whatever guy's worried about.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23906 @ 0.0005079 = 12.1419 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Summer before college I though I'd buy a new Apple on their financing, had not realized company had died. Mercifully was declined and got a used Dell Latitude.
mircea_popescu: a purely mathematical language won't ever matter politically.
BingoBoingo: Didn't realize apple died till junior year of college when I got an iPod to replace a Rio MP3 player and was introduced to iTunes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, to be its own thing, posing a threat.
undata: elon musk and stephen hawking have been saying things
undata: yudkowsky worships at its altar
mircea_popescu: that's different from a mathematically bound ai, no matter how clever
mircea_popescu: perhaps this latter also different from a purely numeric ai
undata: I'm personally much more near-term concerned with ever-cheaper guns/bombs with propellers
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apple, the heritage company was never entirely innocent on the cabling front (Apple desktop bus, etc) The portable gadgets yes did demand a still more grotesque submission. Thankfully pawn shops love Apple shit.
undata: things which take lat/lng and desired size of crater as input
mircea_popescu: undata there's excellent reasons not to worry about that.
cazalla: BingoBoingo: The only environment I've ever been similarly confident with was the old "Hot Dog HTML" that was included on the web design for dummies book cd at the local library <<< lol sausage software, my uncle never shut up about these guys
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, you know said ignition happened once already.
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Compared to the adobe turds at the highschool it was elegant
cazalla: BingoBoingo, i never used it, i was maybe 15-16 at the time and muh uncle constantly telling me to buy shares in sausage software
BingoBoingo: Also worked on the dumpster 486 packard bell with windows 3.1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36547 @ 0.00050221 = 18.3543 BTC [-] {4}
iang: hmmm… you have to sit there and do that every 30 mins?
BingoBoingo: iang: You could produce a GPG keypair and register with the gribble bot
iang: ah, is that something my IRC client needs to be aware of ?
iang: hmmm, you are alleged to befriend trolls
BingoBoingo: Pretty sure everyone on the interent is at some point.
BingoBoingo: Similarly everyone on the internet is themself alleged to be a troll at some point on a long enough timeline
iang: yah. I remember (one of?) the last person I used to talk regularly with gpg would make keys every month and dispose of the old ones. I only talked to him maybe once a month so it didn’t last...
iang: oh, after, kept a merry chain posting into perpetuity
BingoBoingo: iang: Current best practice seems to be gen RSA/RSA and just make the it huge
iang: well, every month I’d send him an email and he’d send me back a request to use his new key :)
iang: BingoBoingo: yup. I guess everyone’s got the message that the threat is on the node.
BingoBoingo: iang: yeah. I can see monthly pub key updates being a hassel if your big GPG use case is signatures
iang: ha, no. Is that based on the RNG problems that various platforms had?
iang: seems to work better if I give it an RSA key ;-)
BingoBoingo: Well, I dunno of any better to gen keys with atm than RSA.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 999 @ 0.001219 = 1.2178 BTC [+]
iang: ha, thanks. but crashing here, later.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00050485 = 15.8523 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17785 @ 0.0004972 = 8.8427 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.0004909 = 3.9763 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34450 @ 0.00048618 = 16.7489 BTC [-] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: I am going to have to read your loper-os blog all the way through
undata: I recently worked for a guy who wanted to make a relational end user programming environment
undata: sadly it was in JS not lisp
undata: the relational part made a bit of sense
undata: the "mind extender" vector - rather than "derp this until any idiot can 'use' it" - is much more interesting
undata: and uh, by god don't make the thing out of the web
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22817 @ 0.00048753 = 11.124 BTC [+] {2}
undata: the guy behind lighttable is now headed towards the same, calling it "eve"
undata: "end user programming"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.00050485 = 16.1552 BTC [+]
undata: at my old job, we were creating a visual SQL editor as the primary way of fiddling this envisioned programming environment
undata: I left the company when I lost a conflict over whether we should shift focus from burning the founder's money to making money
undata: I haven't seen them release much else yet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00048154 = 11.3162 BTC [-] {3}
undata: that pg_meta embodies the approach; for everything, you make a data model
undata: you change things in the world by changing their model
undata: it was pretty damn elegant; I still try to code that way
undata: we bound widgets to various chunks of AST
undata: UI components which were meant to say represent a join, or a boolean expression, or what have you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5719 @ 0.00047979 = 2.7439 BTC [-]
PeterL: hmm, maybe I could add that?
undata: asciilifeform: I don't have any screenshots, but things like two boxes representing tables, each having things you can tap to select columns
undata: drawing a line between two columns of two tables and using a venn diagram in the middle to define the join type
undata: and it was 2-way synced with the source code
undata: it wasn't bad as far as jobs go, but in the end we invented a shitty version of emacs in the browser in JS
undata: this idea that you can get dumb people to do smart things if only you find a way to put smart behind a single button mouse is a terrible religion
undata: that's probably what Eve is going to end up being as well, though I wouldn't mind being proved wrong
undata: I've seen "derps" do pretty effective things with spreadsheets
mats: nothing like post-pregnancy scare celebration sex
undata: msft is running lots of ads telling everyone to learn to code
undata: we can just have an economy of buying and selling apps with each other
PeterL: now you should be able to say: scoopbot -fetch and he will get the scoop
☟︎ undata: artisan farts in mason jars
undata: there's probably a boutique for that here
PeterL: you can also just pm him "-fetch"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The entire MSFT business model since balmer has been having the most farts that smell on their platform
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29010 @ 0.00047489 = 13.7766 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.125 = 1.375 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 21 @ 0.125 = 2.625 BTC [+]
PeterL: Asicminer seems to be picking up today (up 25%), did they release some good news or something?
BingoBoingo: I don't understand the nerve of people who won't contest shit at all.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 348.29, Best ask: 348.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.70000, Last trade: 348.99, 24 hour volume: 16064.42343601, 24 hour low: 346.15, 24 hour high: 375.51, 24 hour vwap: 364.222355025
mats: i wonder if i can get pink eye giving myself a dutch oven
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21349 @ 0.00047315 = 10.1013 BTC [-]
assbot: Rapid Agent Restores Pleasure Seeking Ahead of Other Antidepressant Action | Neuroscience News Research Articles | Neuroscience Social Network ... (
http://bit.ly/1AYB7pA )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 140 @ 0.13926563 = 19.4972 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00047489 = 11.1599 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 906 @ 0.00117766 = 1.067 BTC [+] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 1000 @ 0.001295 = 1.295 BTC [+] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00047315 = 1.656 BTC [-]
cazalla: anyone have a somethingawful account?
cazalla: actually, no matter, got behind stupid wall with google cache
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00047856 = 8.0398 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29778 @ 0.00048315 = 14.3872 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.00048847 = 26.3285 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice how nobody mentions the "fix your bdb max nodes thing"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.0004906 = 8.2421 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <undata> this idea that you can get dumb people to do smart things if only you find a way to put smart behind a single button mouse is a terrible religion << dude so true.
mircea_popescu: mats nothing like post-pregnancy scare celebration sex << her first threesome will top it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28000 @ 0.00049118 = 13.753 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00048639 = 5.788 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1050 @ 0.0012195 = 1.2805 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38200 @ 0.00047375 = 18.0973 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52300 @ 0.00046554 = 24.3477 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86700 @ 0.00047939 = 41.5631 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19487 @ 0.00048982 = 9.5451 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 36 @ 0.14201659 = 5.1126 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00049093 = 6.4312 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.12500101 = 1.25 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14672 @ 0.00049142 = 7.2101 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29799 @ 0.00049275 = 14.6835 BTC [+] {2}
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user danieldaniel has been recorded.
punkman: !s financialcryptography.com
punkman: iang: does anybody use Ricardo these days?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42200 @ 0.00048944 = 20.6544 BTC [-] {2}
iang: punkman: just my company, small use
iang: danielpbarron: not really. I might be the “pgp sucks” guy tho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.0004936 = 4.0969 BTC [+]
fluffypony: iang: my name is Riccardo, it's a joke
iang: you might be talking about a different Ricardo :)
fluffypony: isn't OpenBizarre (pun) supposed to add support for Ricardian Contracts eventually?
iang: lol… ok. I’m not sure how far along OpenBizzaro is with Riccys.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6474 @ 0.0004936 = 3.1956 BTC [+]
iang: manpunk, you are fof lolly
iang: lol funny … wordplay, too bad to ban
iang: so, why does this channel use gpg authentication to filter traffic?
punkman: it was already there because of gribble and #bitcoin-otc
cazalla: i loves me some ransomware
fluffypony: in the beginning when OTC (over the counter) trades with Bitcoin were more prevalent than crappy / scammy exchanges there was a need for an expression of trust relationships
fluffypony: so nanotube, bless his shiny metal heart, created gribble
fluffypony: a bot that allows any registered IRC user to further register with the Bitcoin-OTC WoT
punkman: gribble exists before otc I think
fluffypony: the WoT is a separate entity to the GPG WoT, of course
fluffypony: and GPG is purely used for identify verification
fluffypony: this channel has taken the WoT and used it for a purpose beyond OTC trades
fluffypony: and that is: to vastly increase the SNR by only allowing those in an extended trust network (up to level 2 from the point of origin, that is assbot's level 1 trust group) to talk
fluffypony: of course, those that aren't in that trust group can be given the privilege of temporary voice (30 minutes) by anyone within the trust group
iang: hmm OTC trading, ok, that makes sense.
iang: ah, so is this channel about the discussion of various asset classes?
assbot: 3 results for 'iang.org' - #bitcoin-assets search
iang: Perhaps I had erroneously assumed the channel is about tech to do with assets
cazalla: iang, anything and everything is discussed here
jurov: the chan does not have enforced topic
iang: punkman: interesting selection
punkman: click on date and it takes you to the logs
cazalla: thestringpuller, i've seen pete's face everywhere today lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33000 @ 0.00049154 = 16.2208 BTC [-]
iang: I think you’re right, anything and everything gets discussed here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26276 @ 0.00049319 = 12.9591 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23756 @ 0.00049846 = 11.8414 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7430 @ 0.00048157 = 3.5781 BTC [-]
jurov: if you want from me to test first with all conceivable smtp/mime oddities, filenames, etc... then that'd be vey long wait
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7442 @ 0.00049846 = 3.7095 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1600 @ 0.00121864 = 1.9498 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59727 @ 0.00048042 = 28.694 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1200 @ 0.00121949 = 1.4634 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5197 @ 0.00049374 = 2.566 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43260 @ 0.00047589 = 20.587 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2841 @ 0.00046432 = 1.3191 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.00049539 = 5.2759 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1237 @ 0.00122742 = 1.5183 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.14199997 = 1.42 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2400 @ 0.00123919 = 2.9741 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00048045 = 9.7531 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00046504 = 2.5577 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22064 @ 0.0004873 = 10.7518 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24076 @ 0.00049302 = 11.8699 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.14199998 = 1.42 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00046504 = 11.6725 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16373 @ 0.00049466 = 8.0991 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18831 @ 0.00049892 = 9.3952 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18500 @ 0.00047606 = 8.8071 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: don't be a dick about us Riccardo's << what do you use him for ?
mircea_popescu: punkman: gribble exists before otc I think << yea was born in #bitcoin iirc, 2010s
mats: embedded doc, though...
TomServo: full pdf available on cryptome.org
TomServo: Sorry for having to ask but: would 'rectal feeding' actually allow you ingest some nutrients? or what would be the point?
punkman: can't just stick a banana up your ass though
mats: nobody suggested that
mircea_popescu: it would suck on the long term unless very carefully formulated, but otherwise...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.00050023 = 17.458 BTC [+] {2}
TomServo: Dumb question I suppose; hoped an asciilifeform joke made it into the report. arse/mouth etc.
mircea_popescu: TomServo best way to loosen up neurotic sort of chick is half white wine / half warm water enema.
mircea_popescu: demi bouteille of that an' she's giggling like god meant woman to giggle.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14775 @ 0.00049507 = 7.3147 BTC [-]
jurov: relaxes the sphincter? or the vag, too?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 160 @ 0.12810045 = 20.4961 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 28 @ 0.12527499 = 3.5077 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38900 @ 0.00049671 = 19.322 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2375 @ 0.00050104 = 1.19 BTC [+]
assbot: Announcement: Pleased to share that the syndicate organized by /BitcoinTrust & our trading division won 48k bitcoin auctioned by US Marshals
punkman: the waterfall stronger than ever eh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00048997 = 5.7571 BTC [-]
TomServo: Evidently. Looks like another 1700 or so left ethereum's wallet recently as well.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 667 @ 0.00450001 = 3.0015 BTC [+]
undata: asciilifeform: in this case I'm more than certain they're lying in the direction that makes them look better
assbot: I hope he comes here to tell us how "gpg is not user friendly and too hard." /jyap
http://t.co/w1PgofiYzc /hashtag/bitcoin?src=hash-assets /ElectrumWallet
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user jyap has been recorded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00048614 = 9.7957 BTC [-]
assbot: jyap +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
danielpbarron: sonething tells me you aren't here to tell us how gpg isn't user friendly enough
jyap: well, personal invite from yourself
jyap: but GPG is fine by me
jyap: ah yeah. never actually sent documentation in. more a video chat.
danielpbarron: if people consider video to be proof, no wonder it's widely believed that planes hit the twin towers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34895 @ 0.00049617 = 17.3139 BTC [+] {2}
undata: danielpbarron: dude, what?
undata: surely you meant to say "pentagon"
undata: not that I'd be surprised if you sucked some other conspiracy theory on the towers out of Alex Jones' tailpipe
undata: With traditional Black Friday sales down 11% from last year, it’s it’s important to recognize that bitcoin is being used for a variety of traditional products and services now. This Bitcoin Black Friday may signify a move forward and toward mainstream acceptance of bitcoin.
undata: bitcoin acceptance makes me think of fat acceptance
undata: it's this social progress thing
rithm: and witty, and gaaaaaay
Pierre_Rochard: for many of the redditards it is a ~feels~ social movement, rather than a macro-economic force of nature
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45990 @ 0.0005018 = 23.0778 BTC [+] {2}
Pierre_Rochard: “The decentralized, non-governmental nature of digital currency makes it particularly appealing to those of an extreme libertarian bent. When those voices are the only ones heard, it makes wider adoption and acceptance less likely."
thestringpuller: is it weird that everytime I see someone talk about adoption and acceptance in an article I immediately think they are a n00b?
danielpbarron: 03:37 <+undata> surely you meant to say "pentagon" << nope i meant the towers
undata: danielpbarron: I'm aware of the pentagon missile, but the towers?!
undata: I'm under the impression that many people in adjacent buildings saw it happen
undata: is it hard to believe that they could've both been hit by planes and demoed?
Pierre_Rochard: thestringpuller: because people like the author think Bitcoin _actually_ is a ponzi scheme and that they have to help attract greater fools, so public relations / appearance/ etc are super important to -sell- bitcoin to the unsuspecting masses
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10107 @ 0.00050191 = 5.0728 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57450 @ 0.00050286 = 28.8893 BTC [+] {3}
mats: I'm really irritated by this nonsense in the media about "torture is useless as an intelligence tool"
mats: what a blatant lie.
mats: danielpbarron: my grandparents watched the second plane hit from a high rise several blocks from the towers
mats: they speak about a hundred english words between them, so i doubt they've been bought by USG.
mats: i'd consider effective placement of explosives near structural supports more plausible
mats: anyway, this is probably obvious to everyone, but it should be voiced anyway: torture is definitely useful as an intelligence tool
punkman: not if you are torturing random derps though
mats: relying on a source that's been tortured, now, thats not useful, but thats why you verify the information...
dub: applying it to turban wearers at random may not be
dub: which might be the point?
undata: mats: makes me wonder if that's the tactic: making the conversation about "Is torture effective?"
mats: this is what happens when you let HUMINT fall to the wayside
undata: rather than "do we want to live under the fear of a bureaucracy that tortures people at will?"
mats: i get the impression that most americans accept as fact that torture is ineffective
undata: mats: lets clarify things; do you think we benefit from having a CIA that does so?
undata: hm, as part of current incarnation of USG?
mats: any effective intelligence agency ought to be prepared to torture a source.
mats: you think they're running a day care or something?
undata: that's an incorrect assumption of my opinion
undata: I want to live in a society where everything is done according to law
undata: even torturing "folks" if necessary
undata: not at the whim of some unaccountable second govt
mats: people performing these things are ideally in the field
undata: asciilifeform: right, that's more correct
mats: as far as anyone is realistically concerned, they are the second government.
mats: and you can't do dick about it.
mats: PR backlash blah blah, anyone with a mild degree of intelligence understands this is how the game is played
mats: regardless if its admitted or not
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00049109 = 8.8396 BTC [-]
undata: without rule of law no one can settle down and get some goddamn work done
undata: too busy checking over their shoulder
undata: this is not tantamount to saying society should be hugs and kisses for all
mats: there's only one rule of law, and its wielded at the point of a weapon
undata: that's nice rhetoric, but that's about all
mats: intelligence work requires compartmentalization and centralization
mats: and once you get down to the fundamentals, agents in the field are basically unaccountable
undata: there's a distinction here between the guy that forces you to your desk to work, and the guy that jiggles your hand as you try to write
undata: mats: then they are free to seek their own interest; they're not slaves
undata: and all govt agents should be slaves
mats: in my opinion, this is a fundamentally irreconcilable difference between govt agents and intel agents
mats: you're going to ask an intel agent in the field to handicap himself, at the very real risk of being killed because of morals imposed by someone outside of the game?
mats: sounds like a recipe for high turnover and ineffective field work.
undata: and when the agents traffic enough cocaine to threaten your power over them?
mats: then you kill all of them.
mats: and hire a new spymaster you can leverage.
BingoBoingo: It wouldn't end with "win" another criminal enterprise would emerge. better win is probably stalemate
mats: its actually a humorous indictment of the CIAs HUMINT operations, that they weren't able to get useful information from the rendered
mats: too much noise in the signal. picked up the wrong dudes.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 420 @ 0.00450001 = 1.89 BTC [+]
mats: hows it feel to be a lamb in a den of killers?
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 350.72, Best ask: 351.88, Bid-ask spread: 1.16000, Last trade: 351.88, 24 hour volume: 21724.25125109, 24 hour low: 343.97, 24 hour high: 366.57, 24 hour vwap: 353.109911494
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'The CIA did not hold any detainees after April 2008.' <<< "the fed won't monetise the debt"
[]bot: Bet placed: 4 BTC for No on "BTC tops all time high before April Fool's"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1081/ Odds: 0(Y):100(N) by coin, 0(Y):100(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,998.
mircea_popescu: <Pierre_Rochard> for many of the redditards it is a ~feels~ social movement, rather than a macro-economic force of nature << like everything else. like, that's all they got.
mircea_popescu: "When those voices are the only ones heard, it makes wider adoption and acceptance less likely." <<< so says... who ?
mircea_popescu: the self-feeding circle of shit. "shit out because shit in because shit out because shit in because..."
mircea_popescu: "we are the clueless horde because everyone is clueless because we are clueless because everyone is clueless because that's all that exists because that's what we are because that's what one should be because that's what one can be because that's what we think because that's what we are because that's what we'ver seen because..."
assbot: Logged on 06-12-2014 05:01:41; asciilifeform: these folks will eventually build arse-mouth systems and try to eat their own shit.
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> is it weird << notrly. like you know, if you hear a "sailor" talk about "Ships falling off the earth margin" you can also suspect they're the 15yo fibbing variety of seawolf.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, hence all teh soviet shiteating jokes.
mircea_popescu: mats> relying on a source that's been tortured, now, thats not useful, but thats why you verify the information... << it's complicated. generally, by the time you have to torture people you're dead in the water.
mircea_popescu: it's like saying "wifebeating works as a matrimonial pacification tool".
mircea_popescu: <mats> i get the impression that most americans accept as fact that torture is ineffective << for sure. do you know what else they accept ? that "free markets don't work" and that "socialism is democracy" and all sorts of similar things. do you know why they accept them ? because they want to believe. 16 yo 7/10 valley girl also believes she's "beautiful" and that "she really has a chance". why wouldn't she, as far as
mircea_popescu: <mats> in my opinion, this is a fundamentally irreconcilable difference between govt agents and intel agents << idealised intel agents. like idealised doctors or lawyers, doing "liberal professions". like naggum's idealised "real programmers". problem is, these people don't exist in the counts you might wish to employ. they exist in short supply.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47800 @ 0.00050619 = 24.1959 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> - that is, who do you wish to see win? <<< seems rather uncontroversial by now that the us is a rogue state. at least to my eyes. but in two years of this we've yet to meet somerone who actually believes the us to be anything but a criminal organisation.
mircea_popescu: plenty of women woke up one day to discover they married an asshole over the endless count of years.
mircea_popescu: none of them actually had to hang themselves for this lapse in their youthful judgement,
mircea_popescu: for thatmatter, even 30 years ago, "the us" aka "america" was something you'd have had to be chomsky not to believe in.
nubbins`: "...make something for supper"
nubbins`: altho i did roast a pork tenderloin today
nubbins`: made an extremely heady pan sauce with some red wine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00049923 = 6.1655 BTC [-]
assbot: EPiSKiNG- +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Silver over $20/oz before March"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1083/ Odds: 3(Y):97(N) by coin, 3(Y):97(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,979.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Mar 2015 to drop under $50 before Feb 2015 "
http://bitbet.us/bet/1082/ Odds: 94(Y):6(N) by coin, 94(Y):6(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,961.
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nubbins`: would a vampire say "there is a vampire"? :S
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Mar 2015 to drop under $50 before Feb 2015 "
http://bitbet.us/bet/1082/ Odds: 49(Y):51(N) by coin, 49(Y):51(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,952.