⏐︎ 19266
mircea_popescu: you actually mind smoke ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things. << Wait this thing I've been doing forever is unusual? I always wash the ashtrays at least weekly
mircea_popescu: *: BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype << my hope is that in the 2020s. but i've been off before by an xmas or two.
BingoBoingo: Prolly best to talk about these things in terms of reward halvings rather than xmas's.
bounce: once had a job contract that forbade me from minding smoke. but at home I very much prefer no smoking at all.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo a couple, hopefully not a dozen.
BingoBoingo: AH
mircea_popescu: bounce i don't care either way. maybe i;m the only person left i guess.
BingoBoingo: bounce: How do you become functional in the morning without coffee and cigarettes? Gotta mix your stims.
mircea_popescu: the us "debate", an engine wasting time and paper while going from unpolarized to polarized.
bounce: how? just like erryday
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he has a point there, this "need coffee to wake up" thing is nonsense. i know this experimentally.
BingoBoingo: What, you just carry your hangovers until they fade away on their own?
mircea_popescu: i never drink again anything that gives me a hangover.
mircea_popescu: emergency acute cure is "moare de varza" however.
mircea_popescu: ;;google "moare de varza"
gribble: Zeama de varza: <http://www.bucatar.net/zeama-de-varza/>; Varza murata | Gradina visata: <http://gradinavisata.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/varza-murata/>; Reteta Varza Calita - Traditional romanian cabbage stew - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Qfgxc4FiI>
mircea_popescu: basically kimchi juice.
BingoBoingo: Ah.
bounce: rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol
BingoBoingo: <bounce> rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol << What's the point of drinking if you un-drunk yourself so soon?
mircea_popescu: "do you wanna be able to get it out or do you wanna not be able to get it out ?"
BingoBoingo: What else is practice for? Some people pull trucks with their teeth. Some people practice other feats of physical performance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: me - i don't want jsonism in my book. << anything actually solidified in your head as to what you actually want ? sigs, really ?
bounce: printable text that can nonetheless be verified. that'd be interesting.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: but now i don't see this thing as going anywhere << what, srlsy ?
bounce would add 2d barcodes (QR or something) for the sigantures
mats_cd03: someone once told me life is too short to avoid hangovers
mircea_popescu: it's going, it's going, don't blame the relative fixed position of mountains on the ass derping in the road.
bounce: s/gan/gna/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's going << i did specify hoping that i was wrong about this.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: classic russian fatalism <<< aaaaaaaahahaha, how do you know this ?
mircea_popescu: and was her name katja or natasha ?
mircea_popescu: tanya...
asciilifeform: !s sword hero
assbot: 3 results for 'sword hero' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sword+hero
undata: mircea_popescu: I think you missed the point of my comment on open source, which was in response to "how will we ever finish the deturdification"
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone taking bets on the name of the chick that informed mr fox as to the intricacies of the russian soul ?
asciilifeform: chicken << comes from recipe, attributed to the old gypsies: 'first, steal the chicken.'
mircea_popescu: undata that's possible.
undata: by assigning tasks and chipping away, that's how, and by brutally criticizing contributions
undata: I get offended to my core when someone says "can't be done, lets give up"
mircea_popescu: undata then again, mayhap you missed my point.
undata: and I think I misintepreted people when hearing that
asciilifeform did not say 'give up.' said: buy a man
mircea_popescu: possibly. buncha trolls here see ?
undata: asciilifeform: yep addressed
mircea_popescu: trolling for a reaction out of noobs.
asciilifeform specifically did not say 'buy me.'
mircea_popescu: ;/
asciilifeform knows of maxint folks cheaper and stronger
mircea_popescu: I WAS SAVING UP
asciilifeform: l0lz
mircea_popescu: now lyf is devoid of ultimate significance, i will give up on lyfing!
asciilifeform old lyfer
mircea_popescu: topic is now knives.
asciilifeform: folsom!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^ comment
mircea_popescu: and tear tatoos.
BingoBoingo: Anyone want a pdf of the Folsom book?
asciilifeform has one
mircea_popescu: ;;google cash folsom prison
asciilifeform: (book, not tattoo)
gribble: At Folsom Prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Folsom_Prison>; Folsom Prison Blues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folsom_Prison_Blues>; Johnny Cash - Folsom Prison Blues - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7gV5C5mB7A>
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The "drill" in the book is fun.
asciilifeform: aha.
BingoBoingo: Relaxing
asciilifeform dreamt, recently, that he had a knife teacher
BingoBoingo: Make dummie, savage dummy, imagine doing it better, reassemble dummie, repeat
asciilifeform: a grizzled old bugger
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "how to defend yourself against the banana fiend" ?
asciilifeform: !s banana fiend
assbot: 0 results for 'banana fiend' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=banana+fiend
bounce: .oO( is this automutilation or just autotrolling? )
mircea_popescu: ;;google monty python how to defend yourself banana fiend
gribble: Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w>; Self Defence Against Fresh Fruit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_Defence_Against_Fresh_Fruit>; Monty Python's Flying Circus: Just the Words - Episode 4: <http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode04.htm>
asciilifeform knows of no effective defense against banana
mircea_popescu: hah! first, you eat the banana, thus disarming him.
undata: mircea_popescu: I can take a trolling; my response was to ignore it
mircea_popescu: undata anyway, get the current code, build it and see what happens.
mircea_popescu: especially if it passes the magical block
mircea_popescu: for all we fucking know atm, bitcoin hardforked in march 2013 and nobody noticed.
undata: mircea_popescu: built and patched; will fiddle more later
bounce: can you self-defend against wookies?
undata hooks a drive up to begin blockchain slurp
BingoBoingo: bounce: Did you not read http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm the first time it was linked?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: with no weird 'now please delete blkindex' crud << this is never going to happen on the current db (bdb) because it's a pos, and if the computer fails unexpectedly it messes up the state.
mircea_popescu: nothing to do with bitcoin, well documented bdb issue.
asciilifeform did say he suspected
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: can't say as i recall, the impression was formed over the course of 3 raves in quarries in the depths of oregon forests over my sixteenth summer.
mircea_popescu: actually, it's perhaps not premature to start the subscription list of everyone's favourite db solution
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps the most important, momentuous architectura decision
ben_vulpes: lots of russians in the area.
mircea_popescu: and it needs all the weighin it can get
ben_vulpes: the gangsters live in vancouver
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform-4.snapshot.tar.gz and http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform-4.snapshot.tar.gz.sig
asciilifeform: snapshot.
asciilifeform: for heroes.
bounce: courts tend to frown on defendants wielding fairbarn-sykes knives in session
ben_vulpes: the religious ones in salem.
ben_vulpes: 'tis odd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know this looks like fucking advanced heroes of might and magic over here. barons, lords, heroes, dragons
mircea_popescu: WE GOT IT ALL
undata: asciilifeform: that's with the two patches, or something new?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: merging!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was gonna use own db. for eventual transition to raw block device.
asciilifeform: for metal port.
asciilifeform: vita brevis.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform like what you mean, tape ?
BingoBoingo: bounce: But it is a historical artifact which sits on collectible display next to bed.
asciilifeform: addressable block device.
asciilifeform: as in, 'bitcoinfs.' ☟︎
mircea_popescu: but anyway, a perfectly acceptable alternative : modular db, clearly documented bitcoin hooks, write-your-own-1klines or less api for anything.
asciilifeform: as in, it deserves to be treated as own fs.
BingoBoingo: Sheer coincidence I reached for Fairbairn Sykes and not Chris Carpenter Bobblehead
asciilifeform: with the two patches << with all of my patches so far.
mircea_popescu: there IS some significant ops advantage to not running any one stock db.
asciilifeform: there was some grumbling that i didn't post an auto-zapper that turns 0.5.3 into the hash manifest in 'chicken'
asciilifeform: so here's my total merge.
asciilifeform: does not include bdb lock tweak suggested by mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: (who wants - can make)
mircea_popescu: that's unavoidable, otherwise thing won't pass into 2014.
mircea_popescu: on the blkchain i mean
bounce: fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic?
asciilifeform: modular db << sounds pleasurable, but this requires massive re-engineering of satoshi's turd.
asciilifeform: almost rewrite.
mircea_popescu: d'oh.
mircea_popescu: if you think satoshi's stuff can not be refactored to the point of rewriting, you're living inside a candy globe.
BingoBoingo: bounce> fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic? << Not in case, on nightstand. Made of whatever wartime shitiron England was using.
mircea_popescu: it really is that bad, like old man beard.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4883 @ 0.00080436 = 3.9277 BTC [+]
asciilifeform fesses up that he started a rewrite - before starting correspondence and unrelated project with mircea_popescu
asciilifeform in common lisp of course
ben_vulpes: pahaha.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/177PGZY.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 2 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: but that's slow
ben_vulpes: b-b-b-b-bash buster!
asciilifeform: my cl often runs 1.5x or so of naive 'c'
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: just getting rid of boost is going to entail that.
mircea_popescu: anyone here know bishibosh ?
asciilifeform: because good native compiler.
asciilifeform: (sbcl)
asciilifeform: and annotations.
ben_vulpes: note that asciilifeform says "my cl".
asciilifeform: 'my' is not mine alone, is common as dirt sbcl
mircea_popescu: good lord, he wants to rewrite cl as part of rewriting bitcoin
ben_vulpes: code quality and performance is highly dependent on author, skills.
asciilifeform has private fork of sbcl, it has nothing to do with this
ben_vulpes: haha
asciilifeform: dance quality depends on dancer, yes, news at 11
ben_vulpes is entirely unsurprised.
mircea_popescu: so the plan is, a) make new processor file as ascii art in emacs
mircea_popescu: 2...
mircea_popescu: 3) profit ?
asciilifeform: obligatory sp4mz0r1ng - http://www.molboxllc.com/products.html << gadget runs entirely sbcl
assbot: MolBox LLC
mircea_popescu: this sounds familiar.
asciilifeform: my ancient gadget.
asciilifeform: golden toilet driver.
asciilifeform: ~6k lines of cl.
mats_cd03: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm << i was taught to kill a man with a knife prison-style; reduce distance to <20ft for purpose of sprint (2 second rule: a man can travel 22ft/2s), clinch the neck or bear hug the man while stabbing at the heart with 45 degree angle
BingoBoingo: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3947447 << Let's get Qntra on /.
assbot: US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot
asciilifeform: linked gadget runs on top of pedestrian gentoo on pedestrian x86.
BingoBoingo: <mats_cd03> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm << i was taught to kill a man with a knife prison-style; reduce distance to <20ft for purpose of sprint (2 second rule: a man can travel 22ft/2s), clinch the neck or bear hug the man while stabbing at the heart with 45 degree angle << Seems to be the only way justifiable from a self defense standpoint
asciilifeform: - end of sp4mz0r1ng -
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 i think that only works on floor-shy victims neh ?
BingoBoingo: But heart is a hard target
BingoBoingo: literally, ribs
undata: BingoBoingo: probably hence the 45
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: so he can go to forest and see if it's broken << lawl.
mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: yeah, victim could get on their back as a defense
mircea_popescu: victim could go down, take your feet from under you, have you fall on your own knife.
mircea_popescu: (you have a lot of forward mommentum running for the 22 feet in 2 s)
BingoBoingo: undata: Well you also have to consider, anatomically that mean focusing on their left side and trying to slot in between just the right ribs, vs left side just hitting anything open and soft hoping for the abdominal aorta
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00080248 = 10.673 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (rampant memory leakage is not 'works') << it's not rampant. more like a calender than a ruptured pipe. it... sweats memory :D
ben_vulpes watches lispy robot video
ben_vulpes misses working with robots
asciilifeform: knife << obligatory << http://rutube.ru/video/844941cc31e4e50995af168afcf2052b/?ref=logo
assbot: Нож против пистолета. Реальная эффективность клинка на к... — смотреть онлайн видео, бесплатно!
asciilifeform: 'knife against pistol. actual effectiveness of blade'
asciilifeform not specialist
mircea_popescu: bounce: did I get that about right? << "that bitcoin thing, aka some fiat nonsense trying to call itself bitcoin", rather than "this bitcoin thing" :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gotta love how it's "pistolette" in russian.
bounce: plenty people falling for the ruse though
bounce wonders what this executive chief sellout thinks of that open letter posted by a member on their own forum
mircea_popescu: cazalla: my god this hag of a wife, god must be punishing by introducing her to me before bitcoin << tell us your pain brothar. we're the relationship support cult, among other things.
BingoBoingo suspects Matonis actually despises the monster he helped nurture
mircea_popescu: bounce not his job to think.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he goes through phases.
BingoBoingo: Most people do, so has he had his period yet, or is he mourning starfish virginity?
asciilifeform: starfish period.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo originally he was all excited about derpfoundation. back then we were on speaking terms, so i told him he's nuts. he thought i was nuts. then he got all unexcited, and left. then he came back. now he's leaving.
mircea_popescu shrugs.
BingoBoingo: Seems to happen to a lot of the 2011-2012 Americans
mircea_popescu: you might remember all the huge tada in 2013 re putting a bunch of derps on the "press list" and excluding matonis, on the grounds that the derps were well versed in things from wikipedia practice or something
BingoBoingo: I remember
ben_vulpes: what the ever loving fuck is a press list and--nevermind.
asciilifeform: a press list...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you got it. about the time i threw my hands up too.
asciilifeform: ... is a list of people who are to be pressed to death.
asciilifeform: !s kill file
assbot: 1 results for 'kill file' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=kill+file
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Twas the list the Foundation herded Journos towards
asciilifeform: peine forte et dure.
mircea_popescu: PeterL: why would they do that? <<< because they're business school majors, and this means social studies, and this means they don't understand that words carry meaning.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00080436 = 3.7001 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: ahhhh holy shit you guys i just bought a flipphone
ben_vulpes: prepaid minutes
ben_vulpes: it's got t9
ben_vulpes: I STILL GOT IT BABY
ben_vulpes: hammering out texts without even looking at the keypad
asciilifeform: how is this remarkable ?
mircea_popescu: assbot: The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept <<< what they don't want to say is teh real scoop - "people heard about the qntra model and it killed anyone's will to life i nany competing project."
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Who here prefers other phones?
mircea_popescu: me.
mircea_popescu: samsung, too cheap to even justify the paint to put a model number on it.
bounce: nokia 6310. needs new battery.
BingoBoingo: Seriously wireless cheapass cellphone, because what else is it for?
ben_vulpes: guys quit trollin.
ben_vulpes: i run an ios shop.
ben_vulpes: android too these days.
bounce: no seriously. had an e52 but it sucked so much I went back.
mircea_popescu: ;;google samsung gt ?
gribble: GT-P3110 (GT-P3110TSEBTU) | Support | SAMSUNG UK: <http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/model/GT-P3110TSEBTU>; GT-E1190 | SAMSUNG UAE: <http://www.samsung.com/ae/consumer/mobile-phones/mobile-phones/bar/GT-E1190EBAXSG>; Galaxy S Duos 2 (GT-S7582ZKAMID) | Support | SAMSUNG Levant: <http://www.samsung.com/levant/support/model/GT-S7582ZKAMID>
asciilifeform: http://savok.name/uploads/telefon/14.jpg << best phone
ben_vulpes: it's got bluetooth lol
ben_vulpes: dafuq am i going to do with bt
BingoBoingo needs to get a Western Electric for the return of dialup days
jurov: http://i.sme.sk/cdata/2/73/7381042/model-telefon-stropkov-r188-st.ir3-_t600.jpg
mircea_popescu: https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+gt-e1205q&complete=0&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch << that
assbot: samsung gt-e1205q - Google Search
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes> dafuq am i going to do with bt pop the chip out?
jurov: ^ sadly, never went into rpoduction
ben_vulpes: lg440g
ben_vulpes: that looks downright vaginal jurov
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo lives in town with intact copper ?
asciilifeform doesn't
kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> http://savok.name/uploads/telefon/14.jpg << best phone < fixed : http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5fr8mcDLl1rxnd64o1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: it does look like pussy, jurov's phone...
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yours ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Indeed. Used to be GTE, then Verizon, now Frontier or muni fiber
kakobrekla: there prolly one or two laying somewhere
kakobrekla: theres*
asciilifeform: not bakelite - not phone.
mircea_popescu: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2810500/Kim-Kardashian-speaks-conference-giving-glimpse-family-avatars-Hollywood-game.html
assbot: Kim Kardashian turns tech guru as she speaks at Recode conference | Daily Mail Online
asciilifeform: bt is actually useful in that, with a certain gizmo, lets you use 'real' phone
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00080115 = 1.0415 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: like the soviet one
bounce: the samsung GT-E1107 is kinda cute except that the solar panel feature doesn't actually work very much at all.
bounce: also shittier sound quality than 6310. better battery life though, since newer.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Best video
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815042/Suspected-cop-killer-Eric-Frein-leading-cops-seven-week-manhunt.html
assbot: BREAKING NEWS: Suspected cop-killer Eric Frein FOUND after leading cops on seven-week manhunt | Daily Mail Online
bounce: seven weeks. does that resolve any bets?
mircea_popescu: hm.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform that phone is quite famous. like model m for keyboards i hear. was designed by some slovenian dude.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: forgot, who
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Tube 5 is most important tube
kakobrekla: >It has been over 30 years since the distinguished Slovenian designer Davorin Savnik designed an Electronic Telephone Apparatus (ETA) 85 for Iskra. Beside the fact that it won numerous awards for design and that you can still see the phone being used today, the design got stolen and was a big hit in USA.
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: pretty cool
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit. <<< really, it's just a lot more inconsistent. meaning the scary stories are TRUELY scary.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only thing us management has going for it generally is consistency anyway.
BingoBoingo: Which is broken when it comes to punishment
mircea_popescu: consistency has its own sort of hell, so it all depends.
mircea_popescu: ;;google jennifer aniston in that retarded film with the flares
gribble: Jennifer Aniston said 'retard' and now everyone is mad at her: <http://www.inquisitr.com/82638/jennifer-aniston-retard/>; IMDb: Video disc collection - a list by Alan Poon: <http://www.imdb.com/list/ls008402275/>; 2011 Movie Preview - Collider: <http://collider.com/2011-movie-preview/>
mats_cd03: lol
undata: how many years will I be waiting for a blockchain
asciilifeform: undata: mine went for ~8 hours until croaked.
BingoBoingo: undata: We don't measure time here with years. We use halvings and blockdepth
asciilifeform: your result will depend, at the least, on bandwidth.
undata: asciilifeform: I'll keep logs
ben_vulpes: and if unpatched - 0.5.3 will wedge at some large block.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes a good look as to specifically w
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-10-2014#903928 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 18:53:30; assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
mircea_popescu: WHY it wedges where is already gravy for our little project here.,
ben_vulpes: ah - asciilifeform which block number?
asciilifeform: ^
ben_vulpes: ah ty
mircea_popescu: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000098/ << this chick;s career is really fucking sad.
assbot: Jennifer Aniston - IMDb
ben_vulpes: my 0.5.3 is down because xcode is a resource hog
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i was gonna toss the toy os
asciilifeform wants no #ifdefs in book
asciilifeform could stomach if necessary for openbsd
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you're not serious if you don't put #ifdef book : turn page on the cover.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: toss toss
ben_vulpes: i run litecoin (tee hee) in vm.
mircea_popescu: Terrible Operating System System ?
ben_vulpes: is not buildable on TOYOS
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Her career is sad because of the Sitcom curse. If one successfully does TV, the best they can hope for is to do Windows ads with Bill Gates as Seinfeld did.
asciilifeform has no idea who this is, but knows how gorbachev ended with 'pizza hut.'
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: needs endif on rear cover
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah looks like an inverted porn career. chick turns 17 and 11 months, does 170 featurs that year, then 50 the next and then 2 a year to pay rent til 65.
ben_vulpes: now this is an oddity
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Pretty much how it goes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform she's the sorta-fuckable cali blonde that tits-and-assgelina jolie massacred to get the mimbo at the time
BingoBoingo: On the plus side though B movies have never been this profitable ever in history thanks to netflix
mircea_popescu: i forget who his name is. played flock of seagulls in true romance
asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter
BingoBoingo: Ben Affleck, next Batman
ben_vulpes: 252448 is 243.23046875 KB according to blockchain.info
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter << Titless IRL Laura Croft
ben_vulpes: and 252450 243.0712890625 KB ibid
asciilifeform: incidentally, turd exhausts ram even if left to suffer in its attempt to fetch blocks
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://media.santabanta.com/newsite/newsmaker/images/angelina_jolie12.jpg basically.
ben_vulpes is desperate to see logs from that block, but must run own self.
asciilifeform deliberately did not yet post debug.log, to encourage folks to run on their own
ben_vulpes: oh i can tell
ben_vulpes: dickhead
asciilifeform: ehe.
ben_vulpes: t9 is a lost technology like lisp.
asciilifeform shoves crate of phones with t9
asciilifeform: some 'lost.'
BingoBoingo: lulz http://slashdot.org/submission/3947303/say-something-nice-about-systemd
assbot: Say Something Nice About systemd - Slashdot
ben_vulpes: kiddo to my right laughed at me when i started texting lady v - "how are you even going to -- whoaaaaa."
asciilifeform: somebody wake up diametric
asciilifeform: he likes systemd i think
BingoBoingo: Prolly Harry Poettering himself
mircea_popescu: he's not gonna pull a pankkake on us over it is he ?
asciilifeform: nah i think it enables laziness somehow
mircea_popescu: somehow ? how about "can't read the system logs no more!"
nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/gXXpVHE.jpg
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1W5SGHR.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 1 ✂︎
asciilifeform: he has something grunted together that works almost like real computer
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: what the fuck.
nubbins`: hahahah
asciilifeform: no idea how, when he wakes up perhaps will say
nubbins`: there are larger blocks than 252448 before it
nubbins`: sec
mircea_popescu: nubbins` which one is obama ?
mircea_popescu: i give up ?
asciilifeform: i suspect, though cannot say for certain, that there is nothing magic about 252448
nubbins`: https://blockchain.info/block-index/314817
assbot: Bitcoin Block #252445
asciilifeform: and that db caught obola at some point because ram exhausted
nubbins`: ^ 252445, >340kb
asciilifeform: and never recovered
nubbins`: yeah i've suffered a couple chokes here but seems to be still downloading blocks
nubbins`: currently at 155369
mircea_popescu: well the b onus of leaking software is that it's guaranteed to act impredictably at least some of the time
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also remember that there is no deterministic test of bitcoind, nor can there be
asciilifeform: except, possibly, an elaborate network sim
asciilifeform: this has been done
ben_vulpes: this is actually a thing that i am working on.
asciilifeform: when i was dabbling in '07 with my not-bitcoin-that-shall-not-be-spoken-of - i used one.
mircea_popescu: of the whole thing ? no. of parts of the whole thing ?
asciilifeform: parts - yes.
mircea_popescu: this'd seem a part.
mircea_popescu: ianap
ben_vulpes: not being cpp competent, a useful thing for me to do is write a bash btc harness that points bitcoinds at each other for mining, tx validation, broadcast, etc.
ben_vulpes: harkens back to my work with robots at one point.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this will not test behaviour with ill-behaved nodes.
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: do I need to ban you from the wiki, or will you respect alphabetical order on the Gambling list from now on?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller listen, you ever got that cookieshop thing off the ground ? actually deliering ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this *can* test behavior with ill-behaved nodes.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yes. but you have to create the ill-behaved nodes.
ben_vulpes: what, am i to expect my test harness to sprout warts spontaneously?
asciilifeform: have to simulate various classes of evil node
ben_vulpes: i know that i'm a barbarian but i'm more of a Sven than a Hulk.
asciilifeform: and hope you've imagined all possible universes.
ben_vulpes: clearly impossible.
asciilifeform: or - realize that testing doesn't actually work.
ben_vulpes: what is "work"
ben_vulpes: testing answers specific questions.
asciilifeform: aha.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: People still use wiki?
ben_vulpes: in the notion of testing with which I am familiar at least.
ben_vulpes: what these software cultists do -- has no bearing.
ben_vulpes: test, collect data, cogitate.
ben_vulpes: repeat.
ben_vulpes: this is an arduous process.
ben_vulpes: as your robot attests to.
nubbins`: there's a wiki?
undata: there's something beautiful about downloading the blockchain
mircea_popescu: will kako's trolling wonders never cease ?
nubbins`: undata o.O
undata: sitting back while history replays at high speed
asciilifeform: aha.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: The bitcoin.it thing Gox turned over to Thermos
nubbins`: y'know, i've got a newspaper for sale...
ben_vulpes: > 36983pankkake13luke-jr2014-10-20 18:03:571Technically competent
nubbins`: BingoBoingo, i kid ;/
asciilifeform: i had it scroll to terminal for a spell
asciilifeform: and thought various thoughts.
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr ah didnt know it was alphabetical. i thought dicks come first.
asciilifeform: 'aha, block xxxxx, this is when i tried mining on fpga'
asciilifeform: etc
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr will respect you authoritah on the wiki.
BingoBoingo: !n 3
undata: nubbins`: a global permanent record of anything you like; your newspaper can suck it.
asciilifeform: 'this here's the block where i stuffed $redacted'
ben_vulpes: undata: tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
undata: ben_vulpes: am!
asciilifeform: 'and this here's where $alsoredacted lives'
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Sounds like you need a domain redirecting to BitBet such as aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaBitbet.su
kakobrekla: lets when
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you're the guy that put child pronz in the block ?
asciilifeform: better
mircea_popescu: what could be better.
mircea_popescu: bureaucrat pronz ?
asciilifeform: 'the secret of being a bore is to tell all'
nubbins`: insurance.aes
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04506QN.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 5 ✂︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00080104 = 4.0453 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ?
mircea_popescu: hey, good predictive power in your semantic structure.
asciilifeform not specialist
asciilifeform: blame voltaire, he, afaik, coughed that one up
mircea_popescu: the secret to being a store is to keep all...
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ? << No, secret to being a whore is to be firm on prices.
mircea_popescu: the secret to being a core is to leak all...
undata: the secret to being a whore is to fuck all
nubbins`: leak all the memories
BingoBoingo: Well, yeah, core memory is super tempestable
asciilifeform: the secret of being a war...
mircea_popescu: r-r-r-r-rhymebreaker!
asciilifeform: my grandfather worked on a hydraulic computer. memory literally leaked.
mircea_popescu: not through software fault
asciilifeform: hard to be certain
BingoBoingo: Hardware breaks first!
mircea_popescu: lol that hard :D
undata: asciilifeform: http://gizmodo.com/5879106/the-russian-computer-that-ran-on-water ?
assbot: The Russian Computer That Ran On Water
asciilifeform: no. smaller thing, his own
asciilifeform: not historically notable, afaik.
mircea_popescu: "also ran on beer"
asciilifeform: http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/images/BenderBeer051811.jpg
nubbins`: i made cheese beer bread today
nubbins`: so yum
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00080197 = 8.6212 BTC [+] {2}
undata: mircea_popescu: regarding db, would you loathe sqlite?
undata: those can get pretty massive and still do well
asciilifeform: undata: i'd like zero library deps.
mircea_popescu: undata i wouldn't loathe anything
mircea_popescu: it's all the other haters one gotta worry about
BingoBoingo: Bitcoin's not going anywhere, if you are going to introduce a dependency for storage why not just leap to ZFS?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo asciilifeform was talking of a whole fs.
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: thanks
asciilifeform: result should be ROMable on a 486.
undata: well, you'll otherwise reinvent acid and whatnot yourself
undata: which is fine
undata: but that should be the goal then
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: anything we can do to make it clearer? there should have been a comment at the top explaining
mircea_popescu: now the advantage to an actual fs is that since you know your blocks wil be 1mb tops, you can actually make the sectors 1mb size.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has his thinking helmet on!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually i just had my finger in the right cunt.
nubbins`: right on
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr maybe its just common sense, that i lack of.
asciilifeform: also wurks.
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: heh, well, the whole reason for that policy was because people kept fighting over order/positioning on that page XD
mircea_popescu: tho honestly i am not convinced a fs is less work than a byodb hook
mircea_popescu: maybe much sexier, i dunno.
asciilifeform: it isn't less.
nubbins`: running stock 0.5.3 is less work ;)
asciilifeform: yes, because doesn't work.
BingoBoingo: FFS can take you up to 2 TB
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr let us fight. we will see who the better coder is.
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr from experince, nothing short of a site random display will solv that problem
kakobrekla: anyway, brb
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: O.o
mircea_popescu: people will start registering 1something domains link them to their main site
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: well, that's why we go based on the main site name, not the domain
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu let them do 1. ill start with 0.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
kakobrekla: so we rename bitbet to 0bet
nubbins`: A-1 Betting Inc.
Luke-Jr: randomising might work if that gets abused, but that takes effort
mircea_popescu: 000losses.betsite.biz
nubbins`: heh
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr i'd think randomising entries less effort than policing "main domain name" rules, but anyway, no idea wtf this even is so.
asciilifeform read that useless piece re: herr omidyar, kept waiting for it to mention his specialty as no. 1 hoarder and withholder of snowden turd. then saw that article is by 'greenwald, poitras, ...'
mircea_popescu: dun mind me.
nubbins`: _youraddictionbyplacinganotherbet.us
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah. encouraging how clearly you can see right through their bs.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If it were only a management dispute why would I link it?
mircea_popescu: apparently one doesn't need a politix degree.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a retarded 5yo can see clean through it
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's my expectation of 5yos, yes, but recently they make broken ones or something.
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr good call! :)
asciilifeform: modern world amazes with its ability to manufacture broken.
asciilifeform: !s flashlight crash
assbot: 1 results for 'flashlight crash' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=flashlight+crash
Luke-Jr: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Random looks useful
assbot: Extension:Random - MediaWiki
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00079632 = 2.9464 BTC [-] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: how else were they supposed to hotfix it later?
asciilifeform: lol
undata: asciilifeform: though there's the risk of a bad flash
asciilifeform: undata: afaik it was a mask rom.
undata: then my joke is dead to me
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: crab bus << reminds me of my consulting partner's tale of the rat temple in his home town
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course you realise with 1mb sectors the current size of the charade would be 30+ gb.
mircea_popescu: ie, 3x what it is.
asciilifeform: they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/for-capitalism/ << i forgot to link this
assbot: For Capitalism! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: 30+gb << 40gB was the turd upon croaking
asciilifeform: that is, with 2/3 finished blockchain
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit << What, no warfarin in the milk?
asciilifeform: nein
asciilifeform: rats - holy.
BingoBoingo: But dumber than mice
BingoBoingo: Though more organized
asciilifeform: http://www.lovethesepics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/pampered-rats-at-rat-temple.jpg
asciilifeform: http://lh3.ggpht.com/-8kIGkSd5HlY/UFdBJkTZo-I/AAAAAAAAdLQ/oGTBToZyGR8/karni-mata-temple-6%25255B2%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i missed a zero baby.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 327763 / 1024
gribble: 320.081054688
mircea_popescu: 320 gb
asciilifeform: disk longa, vita brevis
mircea_popescu: it'll be a tough sell.
asciilifeform: can compress below fs layer, realize
asciilifeform: a la 'doublespace.'
asciilifeform: if only basic rll
asciilifeform: (run length encode)
asciilifeform: no need to ever store a mb of zero
mircea_popescu: if anyone is a hdd afficionado, do some math as to what gain in speed justifies a 5x gain in file size ? at current and/or historical price per speed and price per size.
asciilifeform: again, compress.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you compress below fs layer then the fixed blocks thing is kinda a meh idea.
asciilifeform: sufficiently smart fs will compact runs.
mircea_popescu: do you even have a candidate for pillaging in mind or wtf fs is even trustworthy
asciilifeform: when i said fs,
asciilifeform: meant - fs crafted for the occasion.
mircea_popescu: what, all new code ?
mircea_popescu: gtfo.
asciilifeform: aha.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0QAFFAK.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 3 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: rewriting bitcoin is one thing. writing a new fs is a fucking dumb idea.
asciilifeform: blockchain gets a block device.
BingoBoingo: What's wrong with FFS? ... In one of its hundreds of incarnations...
mircea_popescu: there is no way you can do anything novel and useful in terms of fs.
mircea_popescu: either one or the other. not both.
asciilifeform: existing fs are built to be 'all things to all people'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00079592 = 4.1388 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what, only support s.nsa produced hard drives ?
asciilifeform: nein
asciilifeform: just, normal lba drives.
mircea_popescu: so who are you going to steal the hardware drivers from
asciilifeform: what drivers.
mircea_popescu: maybe i don't iunderstand what you mean by "make own fs" and "bare metal" in that order.
asciilifeform: if we're talking about a metal port, i'd use my pio hdd driver (about 1k asm)
asciilifeform: works on every machine i own.
asciilifeform: a purist - can use x86 bios 'int 13' block routine. (slower)
asciilifeform: if we're talking about a humbler turd that runs on unix, it'd take /dev/sdwhateverthefuck'
asciilifeform: and crap directly therein.
mircea_popescu is in over his head in this discussion.
asciilifeform: ('metal port' being a hypothetical 'bitcoind' that boots up as x86 os)
asciilifeform: ('pio' - programmed i/o, mode of using standard 'ata' without dma. used by simple schoolboy operating systems for x86)
asciilifeform: ('int 13' - traditional x86 bios interrupt function which exists to this day, used by most os boot loaders to fetch kernel from disk)
asciilifeform: controller-agnostic.
asciilifeform: /dev/sdX - raw block device present on all unix systems, represents a block device - e.g., hard disk - as a sequence of blocks of N (usually 512) bytes
asciilifeform: on ancient boxes with parallel 'ata' - /dev/hdX
BingoBoingo will now drop that http://datarecovery.com/about/ has been seeking russian speakers to operate "PC 9000" hard drive firmaware tool since I part timed there in 2004.
assbot: About | Datarecovery.com
asciilifeform: lol!
asciilifeform: even now?!
mircea_popescu: jejeje
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Last I checked. They opened the Toronto lab entirely for recruiting russian speakers
BingoBoingo remembers being paid dor a tape cataloguing job one summer partially in vodka
BingoBoingo disappointed they redesigned their website into a js turd
asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/CugtJUXt << int 13
assbot: [ASM (NASM)] int 13 - Pastebin.com
BingoBoingo: Oh noes http://slashdot.org/submission/3947447/us-company-seeks-to-offer-regulator-approved-bitcoin-options-market is down to blue
assbot: US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot
mircea_popescu: is that a good thing ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: remember the fella who booted linux on dead 'seagate' pcbs ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik he did it by reversing ye olde 'pc 9000'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Bad thing
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I do indeed
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: seeking russian speakers to operate << srsly, operate, not translate ?
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_BeGDkNRtA << non-obligatory, but goes with the theme
assbot: Bach - Little Fugue on Eight Floppy Drives - YouTube
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe both. Maybe they have a new firmware tool? They really wanted operators though because PC 9000 kept pissing Ben off.
asciilifeform: (theme of block devices...)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: As far as the history of that firm goes though he did start out though as an audio/speaker guy
asciilifeform: probably began by driving ancient hdd 'voice coils' directly with his amps...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2742 @ 0.00079762 = 2.1871 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Began by doing work setting up for various "bands" and saying technology and finding out people were approaching him with dead hard drives because he said technology
mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/019c4f744bdafc23d8eaecd88aeb4ac7/tumblr_mtsv9elrCH1swtr5so1_500.gif << speaking of turds and all that.
asciilifeform: she must've cleaned the last throne with eyes.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: 1k eyeballs right ?
asciilifeform: 1m!
asciilifeform: them.
nubbins`: downloading the blockchain is slooooow.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: The indexing is slower.
nubbins`: i'll bet
nubbins`: running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it?
nubbins`: i've got a paltry gb allocated now
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKuatNrLHLY << with english translation in 'show more' box ☟︎
assbot: 17 Moments of Spring - Gde-To Daleko (Somewhere Far Away) HQ - YouTube
asciilifeform: (re: 'go into forest')
dignork: nubbins`: btw if you're trying to boot the 0.5.3 version, try the -testnet first, the db is smaller, and it's supposed to contain borderline crazy transactions
mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: i retched
nubbins`: dignork thanks, good tip
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00079905 = 8.1503 BTC [+]
dignork: nubbins`: I cowrdly take this back: current testnet is a 3rd chain - I think genesis block was switched, but not sure when exactly, so 0.5.3 might have an old genesis block :(
nubbins`: no sweat
dignork: yup, no dice: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet - "Testnet3 is the current test network. It was introduced with the 0.7 release, introduced a third genesis block..."
assbot: Testnet - Bitcoin
kakobrekla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5sUIa1wXKk
assbot: Butnskala - Lisice - YouTube
kakobrekla: (relevant to ebola)
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Also Futbol Americano
BingoBoingo: Going off of the concusion leap
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it? <<< yes, up to 16gb markedly helps
BingoBoingo: So I'm pricing used workstations. All of the opteron based stuff in the past 6 years is pretty equivalent, yes?
BingoBoingo asks because this beauty? Under $300? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun-Ultra-40-2xDual-Core-2-4GHz-16gb-1x250GB-Quadro-FX-4500-DVD-4xAvailable-/151458445675?pt=US_Thin_Clients&hash=item2343a0796b
assbot: Sun Ultra 40 2XDUAL Core 2 4GHz 16GB 1X250GB Quadro FX 4500 DVD 4XAVAILABLE | eBay
BingoBoingo: http://slashdot.org/submission/3947571/do-you-know-the-three-main-causes-of-prostatitis-for-teenagers
assbot: Do you know the three main causes of prostatitis for teenagers - Slashdot
BingoBoingo: Holy shit!!! Who do people even buy new computers? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-690-10-Pack-2-x-DCX-2-66Ghz-4GB-667Mhz-146GB-15K-7-Pro/120625143566?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3D06f913a9ae9b4c19bbef119b93c13ee7%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26
assbot: Precision 690 10 Pack 2 x DCX 2 66GHz 4GB 667MHz 146GB 15K 7 Pro | eBay
kakobrekla: 10 pack lol
BingoBoingo: I know!
BingoBoingo: I could start a university computer lab with that shit
BingoBoingo: Right after I buy/conquer a university
mod6: the fs idea is sexy, and indeed ufs2 w/soft updates would be probably best, which is default for everything post fbsd 5 iirc.
mats_cd03: BingoBoingo: youre tempting me to buy a workstation of my own
mod6: but sounds like we're getting into RE-ENGINEER ALL THE THINGS if we start to not trust whatever is already out there
mats_cd03 browses craigslist
BingoBoingo: mats_cd03: I have wanted ECC ram for about a decade now, but never pulled the trigger on it
mats_cd03: i was under the impression most motherboards support ECC and non-ECC
asciilifeform: mod6: idea was, blockchain, as potentially the majority user of future hdd space on planet, deserves own (ab initio) scheme of mapping to block device.
BingoBoingo: mats_cd03: From what I understand ECC is still a luxury sold to the discerning which the "cloud" is trying to handwave over
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: no
mats_cd03: hm.
asciilifeform: ecc with amd cpu - almost impossible to obtain now. ecc on intel - on high-end 'xeon' boards.
mod6: asciilifeform: perhaps. i worry that we're all of the sudden going to fork *bsd and make mpexos
BingoBoingo: mod6: I prefer the term Stanix
mod6: heheh
mod6: not bad :]
BingoBoingo: Now that people are finally reading GNU utils I imagine split will be from OpenBSD 5.X -current
asciilifeform innocent of ab initio unixen, other than as school homework
asciilifeform would like to stay that way
BingoBoingo: Well, real Unix exists... in Textbooks
mod6: do you mean 'real' as in systemv?
BingoBoingo: mod6: Real as in... before system*
asciilifeform downed pilot not worm connoisseur
BingoBoingo: back when it was version*
asciilifeform swears by 'unix hater's handbook'
BingoBoingo has several coppies
BingoBoingo: My domicile was slow rolled by the local 5-0 about half an our ago so mzt misssspelt words
asciilifeform had to look up most of above to make any sense
mod6: so, since we're talking about it, what would be the most idea env for such a reference implentation? a fully stripped openbsd with a custom fs & drivers?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00079592 = 13.0786 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo really wants the disorderly conduct case to fucking end
BingoBoingo: mod6: OpenBSD on its own is prolly hostile enough to dev in
asciilifeform: mod6: custom fs doesn't require an os-level turd, just a raw block device that the process is permitted to r/w.
mod6: s/openbsd/*bsd
asciilifeform: mod6: idea being, among other merits, that in the future shedding the os entirely will be considerably easier.
mod6: so you wouldn't say, want to strip kern mods out or whatever?
mod6: what about wintel eth drivers?
asciilifeform: that's a separate work
mod6: what about like 69000 other things?
asciilifeform: what other things?
BingoBoingo: What ken mods? OpenBSD offers two kernels bsd and bsd.mp, if you want more fuck you
asciilifeform: the only devices a hypothetical bitcoin x86 os needs to comprehend is disk and nic
asciilifeform: disk - see example posted earlier (< 1 kb asm)
mod6: eh..nm
asciilifeform: nic - similar. see example in 'bare metal os' (bsd license, iirc)
asciilifeform just wanted a fucking book
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Problem is book has wants too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00079592 = 5.7306 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 'first the man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes the man'
asciilifeform: (jp?)
BingoBoingo: Indeeds
BingoBoingo: Prolly universal
asciilifeform: one of the things pretty much no one (save possibly mircea_popescu) seems to comprehend is that bitcoin is, what old timers call - 'safety critical code'
asciilifeform: as in, would you want a multithreaded os like unix on, e.g., pacemaker ?
asciilifeform: safety critical means not always death, but wors
asciilifeform: e
BingoBoingo: Actually... in cariac replacement parts, mechanical failures tend to kill first.
asciilifeform: like, your whole reich goes down
BingoBoingo: like dad's brave little plastic aortic valve
BingoBoingo: But... a *nix pacemaker still scares moar
asciilifeform: we all wear out. plastic or meat.
asciilifeform: but software - doesn't.
BingoBoingo: True
asciilifeform: it works - or not.
BingoBoingo: Code does what it is, without regard for the underlying
kakobrekla: you can skip the first option.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> like, your whole reich goes down << wouldn't it be grand to have a spec so people can use that to build their own compliant reference implementation?
asciilifeform: mod6: you can probably download most of the info necessary to build a vintage mercedes benz.
asciilifeform: will you build ?
asciilifeform: or 'tiger' tank.
asciilifeform: butbut... the spec's right here!
BingoBoingo: !s nuclear power
assbot: 32 results for 'nuclear power' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nuclear+power
mod6: im pretty sure that im not smart enough for this conversation
BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-10-2014#885592 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-10-2014 00:36:11; asciilifeform: a datacenter that can't be diddled from a safe distance is also called 'a nuclear power'
mod6: what I mean is, if your worried about everyone running the same code, 'safety critical code' wouldn't it be good to have some diversity of systems, and decentralized
asciilifeform: diversity of systems << idiocy
asciilifeform: idiocy we suffer from as a consequence of having microshit on our planet
asciilifeform: like a gigantic black hole that warps spacetime around it into strange shapes.
mod6: you want to force people to use only one version of code?
mod6: including os?
asciilifeform: who forces you to use arabic numerals?
asciilifeform: you could use, for example, chinese ones
asciilifeform: why not?
asciilifeform: mod6: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=305 << my essay on subject
assbot: Loper OS » The Five Types of Technological Standard
mod6: i don't think the question is why, it's how.
asciilifeform: i'd like to aim for type no. 2 here.
asciilifeform: my point earlier was not that dr. evil should force everyone somehow to use similar $widget, but that the whole 'monoculture is bad' concept exists in the popular mind solely because of microshit.
mod6: do you think that all the root servers should use the same code & os?
asciilifeform: i don't much care about 'shoulds'
mod6: well, they dont, for good reason
asciilifeform: but that, if software is written correctly, it does not matter if an entire galaxy runs same.
asciilifeform: no one gets to pwn it
mod6: there is no correctly.
asciilifeform: because mathematically impossible.
mod6: there is only better or best.
kakobrekla: there is only non working code atm so stfu.
asciilifeform: better or best << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-10-2014#901470 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-10-2014 04:35:44; asciilifeform: 'suppose every program can be shortened by a line, and contains a bug. therefore all programs can be reduced to one line - which does not work.' - ???
asciilifeform: kakobrekla has it.
asciilifeform: except right now we've a few 10k of lines which do not work.
asciilifeform: room for improvement.
BingoBoingo wonders if Well written bitcoind compatible turd will be larger than blockchain itself
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wat ?
asciilifeform: well written == operates correctly + fits in head.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10056 @ 0.00079582 = 8.0028 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: not fits in head - ipso facto not well written
asciilifeform: regardless of what else it does.
BingoBoingo: I'm just thinking about the first, operates "correctly"
asciilifeform: incidentally
asciilifeform: until such is written, we will not actually know if bitcoin works.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7944 @ 0.00079428 = 6.3098 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: therein lies the real chthonian ur-terror here.
BingoBoingo: Eh, all that mean is lite/dark coin is still moar fucked
asciilifeform: i can't guarantee that anyone will especially like the answer, if an answer were ever to appear.
asciilifeform: i should also point out that 'fits in head' does not mean yours and mine, necessarily. there are many different heads.
asciilifeform: back to above, the gods loving a joke, perhaps this is how we find out that p==np.
asciilifeform: but i digress.
asciilifeform to bed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00079088 = 9.0951 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4537 @ 0.00079006 = 3.5845 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 343.8, vol: 14300.96413830 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 342.997, vol: 8307.59393 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 342.5, vol: 56448.03593215 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 341.950176, vol: 87619.21790000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 344.29, vol: 7.57445171 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 344.595249, vol: 88.37658032 | Volume-weighted last average: 342.348557744
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.0007241 = 3.3671 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: OMG they are learning!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDSMwnzGvc4
assbot: Happy Halloween! | Squirrel Carves Pumpkin - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00073345 = 5.3542 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0007354 = 2.2797 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021818 B (Total: 477.11 B). Delta: -0.38 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "You misunderstand my goals. My goal with 0.5.3 is not to produce a high quality implementation of the bitcoin protocol from Satoshi’s work (people interested in such should take a dependency on software that’s actually rigorously tested like the Conformal codebase. Comparing the tests for *any* version of the Satoshi codebase with the Conformal implementation is like comparing the tests of a first-year Ruby web de
mircea_popescu: veloper using Selenium to exercise his hand-cobbled JavaScript to those of Netflix and their Chaos Gorilla), but to distill the reference implementation into something that can fit in a single human’s head and rip out braindamaged code-arson like the moronic “wallets” and their change behavior."
mircea_popescu: see, ben_vulpes is the right guy for the foundation job. clearly.
ben_vulpes: what no no don't say that
mircea_popescu: tis true nigga.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski seems your blog ate out my coment. this is like rape.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: also asciilifeform you want this to move at f1 speed
ben_vulpes: and we're working with a rusted model-t.
ben_vulpes: i appreciate your flair for the dramatic but lol chilllllll frere.
ben_vulpes: dear client
ben_vulpes: i understand that you've made commitments that your contract with us does not support.
ben_vulpes: here are your options:
ben_vulpes: a) let the contract terminate, accept our sw in its current state, shit your pants, blow your demo.
ben_vulpes: b) retain us through the demo day, and let us work with your technical team to do the best we can (all we've ever promised) to make you look good for your next big relationship.
ben_vulpes: c) retain us to do b) and also ship kickass native semantic apis on both platforms.
ben_vulpes: *shrug*
ben_vulpes: whatchagonnado.
mircea_popescu: dumb.
mircea_popescu: dear client, here is our contract and here is our previous agreement. if you would like to modify either, please forward me the required modifications and i will send you the corresponding quote.
ben_vulpes: well, contract expires monday.
ben_vulpes: client is shitting pants and needs giving a way out.
ben_vulpes: i swear half what i do is herd cats and the other half is tell clients what the fuck to do.
mircea_popescu: yours is passive-aggrrssive whiny bullshit.
mircea_popescu: i'd can you just for that.
ben_vulpes: oh well there's a "here's what you should do" section as well.
mircea_popescu: then maybe leave just that and appear all friendzoned-and-happy-about-it
ben_vulpes: hm.
ben_vulpes: next time mebbe.
mircea_popescu: in any case the part you quoted is bad voodoo, and you know that's what it is.
ben_vulpes: that's not a quote.
ben_vulpes: that's a rant.
mircea_popescu: a then nm me
ben_vulpes: hahahahahahahahaha
ben_vulpes: i mean i'm a novice for sure
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is one to know lol, you come in here with your pseudoquotes and pseudocode and etc :D
ben_vulpes: i actually want these guys to do well. they've apparently fallen into an infinite buy wall for what they do.
mircea_popescu: so then be all dumpy naive, in the worst case they end up relying on you.
mircea_popescu: in the best case they're actually managed by sane people and you get paid.
ben_vulpes: i did get a sane guy on the phone today.
ben_vulpes: that was nice.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mod6: idea was, blockchain, as potentially the majority user of future hdd space on planet, deserves own (ab initio) scheme of mapping to block device. <<< this is actually a solid point
ben_vulpes: dev anarchy over there, i tell you.
mircea_popescu: tho you know how this shit flows, people who are sane get talked over by various locally optimizing idiots who know better
mircea_popescu: then we end up with the engine misplaced for 150 fucking years.
ben_vulpes: <Luke-Jr> mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p << dig the power of the wot
ben_vulpes: wot > wiki
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you're not about to blame a guy for being nice are you ?
ben_vulpes: it's culty.
ben_vulpes: not trustworthy.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: How many customers deep does this go?
ben_vulpes: anti-wikitarian
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: someone cutting check for dev services.
ben_vulpes: checks, ideally.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: mod6: I prefer the term Stanix << as in "the dyslexic coder sold his soul to stanix" ?
BingoBoingo: Why not?
mircea_popescu: guess so huh.
BingoBoingo: I think the biggest MP endorsment of hardware b-a so far is how much less time spent at the keyboard happens now compared to timisoara
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: one of the things pretty much no one (save possibly mircea_popescu) << possibly eh ?
mircea_popescu: i'm writing you down in my little black book OF INSULTS
mircea_popescu: which incidentally is not all that little.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wait wut ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Just seems in Buenos Aires you spend less time on the Keyboard than you did in Timisoara
mircea_popescu: srsly ?
mircea_popescu: well, the town is larger, fucking all the girls takes longer i guess.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: butbut... the spec's right here! <<< not terribly fair. the mercedes is not made out of coffee like code is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: diversity of systems << idiocy << no dude. if bitcoin code all ran on the same platform that'd be pretty much the end.
ben_vulpes: <mats_cd03> mircea_popescu: i retched << wuss
mircea_popescu: gotta get the girls dirty now and again, best thing for 'em.
ben_vulpes: rolling in mud is good for everyone.
ben_vulpes: keeps the immune system from attacking itself.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: therein lies the real chthonian ur-terror here. <<< nah, we know it works. we just can't prove it to arbitrary standards yet.
ben_vulpes: oh lol you said "prove" in the context of software around asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: trust me, i know what i'm doing :D
mircea_popescu: "Selenium IDE is a Firefox plugin which records and plays back user interactions with the browser. "
mircea_popescu: fuck me sally. they got excel "macros" for firefox now ?
ben_vulpes: ...
ben_vulpes: i've only ever seen the programmable stuff.
mircea_popescu: "the user is your only true enemy." ~ che guevara
ben_vulpes: mo users
ben_vulpes: mo problems
mircea_popescu: ok well this was fun, but where is today's log ?
ben_vulpes: ah wait he's not even around
mircea_popescu: what is this piddly 800 lines you bring before me ?
ben_vulpes wonders if anyone's running on the 0.5.3 testnet
BingoBoingo: What hardware B-A ran out of girls already?
mircea_popescu: nah, just lube.
BingoBoingo: ;;google 5 gallon surgical lube
gribble: Surgical Instrument Lubricant | Medline Industries, Inc.: <http://www.medline.com/product/Surgical-Instrument-Lubricant/Instrument-Lubricant/Z05-PF09087?srchMaterialIds=MDS88000T2+MDS88000T2H>; Surgical lubricant sterile - TheFind: <http://www.thefind.com/beauty/info-surgical-lubricant-sterile>; Medical MetriLube, Learn More About MetriLube for Medical | Metrex: (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9115 @ 0.00072852 = 6.6405 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV8JPZyJiuE
assbot: Girls check out guys crotch bulge on train - YouTube
ben_vulpes: and with that, good night.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00072589 = 2.5406 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2207 @ 0.00072767 = 1.606 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.0007305 = 6.0632 BTC [+] {3}
cazalla: looks like it was quiet on the news front, i pissed off and spent half the day at the beach
cazalla: !up vextreegold
cazalla: up myself when i'm already up, amazing
cazalla: !up vextreegold
punkman: how was the water cazalla
cazalla: gotta get some beer so i can yell at the kids who dare come to my doorstep and ask trick or treat in australia
cazalla: punkman, really good, hot day here too but not many ladies around
cazalla: missus gave me a filthy look when i got back though
punkman: why the look?
cazalla: prob cause she has been stuck at home all day with bubs and she realised i'd been at the beach once i got home
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1377 @ 0.00073197 = 1.0079 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9993 @ 0.00073078 = 7.3027 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: http://fetching.io/
assbot: Your own personal Google. · fetching.io
punkman: guys says he will offer non-cloud version
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/10/australian-silk-road-merchant-sentenced-to-11-years-jail-loses-24500-bitcoin-to-boot/
assbot: Australian Silk Road Merchant Sentenced To 11 Years Jail, Loses 24,500 Bitcoin To Boot | Qntra.net
cazalla: ouch baby, very ouch
davout: ouch
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00074294 = 6.6865 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00074294 = 1.8202 BTC [+]
cazalla: no drink november, it's 10:15pm on 31st october and i'm having some beers so this ensures i fail no drink november as of 12:01am november 1st
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5199 @ 0.00073426 = 3.8174 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00073027 = 2.4099 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00073019 = 14.7498 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00072714 = 1.8906 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.0007257 = 5.0436 BTC [-]
cazalla: so i take a piss and it's all red and i'm thinking i knew it, i knew it, it's fucking cancer
cazalla: then i remember i made beetroot relish for tmw and ate a bunch of beets while cooking
cazalla: so ya know, it's probably not cancer
thickasthieves: <+mircea_popescu> it does look like pussy, jurov's phone... /// but it does resemble a uterus
chetty: <cazalla> so i take a piss and it's all red and i'm thinking i knew it, i knew it, it's fucking cancer// or ebola
cazalla: no ebola in australia
thickasthieves: um beets can make your piss red?
thickasthieves: i dunno....
thickasthieves: "This discolouration of the urine, to red or pink, after eating beets is called beeturia. It’s caused by the betalain pigments in the beets, breaking down and being excreted. The stomach acid and the flora of the gut play an important role in breaking down the pigments in food, so if they are low or compromised you may experience beeturia."
thickasthieves: heh
thickasthieves: fix yo acid
thickasthieves: "Add warming spices to your diet, such as cinnamon, ginger, cardamom, cumin, coriander, chili & fennel seed to help kick start the digestive fire."
thickasthieves: some great spices there
cazalla: it only went pink once it hit the water, not like it was a stream of red aids coming out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00072558 = 7.546 BTC [-] {2}
thickasthieves: omg, the tview chat has up/downvoting on EVERY comment
thickasthieves: someone already made a downvoting bot in a few hours
thickasthieves: so all comments are greyed out automatically
TomServo: thickasthieves: ahah, wow that's awful. Way to fight the good fight though - more patience than I.
xanthyos: 10 btc freeroll on nitrogensports.eu starts in 63 minutes
xanthyos: wonder if the site will mysteriously go down in 62
kakobrekla: nigrogensports?
kakobrekla: aw its nitro.
kakobrekla: o look, gold is being beaten again https://charts.mql5.com/6/102/xauusd-w1-worth-ltd-venetfx-3.png
thickasthieves: more beatings for btc then too
kakobrekla: dunno
chetty: <cazalla> it only went pink once it hit the water, not like it was a stream of red aids coming out//check with wife, this also happens with freshly cleaned toilets sometimes
thickasthieves: man gold really is getting slammed
thickasthieves: glad i never got back in
chetty: thickasthieves, I bet thats just paper tho, try and buy the actual stuff at those prices :P
kakobrekla: i can get it at spot here
kakobrekla: as much as i want
kakobrekla: but
kakobrekla does not care for it
thickasthieves: chetty, gold is pretty available to a certain volume
thickasthieves: never tested it
thickasthieves: never will
chetty: never bought a ring for the wife?? :P
thickasthieves: thats not the same, but yes jewelers do usually trade gold
thickasthieves: i can probably buy $10k worth by driving 10m down the road
thickasthieves: of course i had a following out with the jeweler so maybe not
chetty: well I dun see much point in all the goldbugs, but I guess to each their own poison
thickasthieves: voting feature in tview chat removed
thickasthieves: didnt even last a day
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00072792 = 2.4385 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: how come?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00072505 = 5.5104 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4303 @ 0.00072792 = 3.1322 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: thickasthieves: "falling out"
mircea_popescu: hallo fellow cultists
TomServo hails the great leader.
xiando is monitoring this cult
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/0d0dbaac6674f72042e594d6890b8194/tumblr_n1ilpvL6fA1sotprvo1_500.jpg << proof that the question mark is drawn all wrong.
mircea_popescu: TomServo you know, i'm too old for the cross bullshit.
mircea_popescu: jus' sayin'.
TomServo: cross bullshit?
mircea_popescu: you know, http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/children/08r.jpg
mircea_popescu: btw, Auction of Souls is a must see, but preferably in the uncut version.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10497 @ 0.00072899 = 7.6522 BTC [+] {2}
TomServo: Well I have no crucifixion plans so, you're good.
mircea_popescu: http://www.brentisangry.com/2011/08/80s-comics-explosion-best-worst-comic.html << also pretty good, this guy's blog.
assbot: Brent is Angry: 80's Comics Explosion: BEST WORST COMIC, RUNNER-UP; SCIMIDAR! NSFW! ADULTS ONLY!
mircea_popescu: if one can read past the marauding sew he spwes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00073191 = 7.3923 BTC [+]
jurov: asciilifeform: in the raw device as database, how do you index utxo to verify incoming transactions?
jurov: you'll still have to steal some code from bdb or do your own
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5704 @ 0.00073197 = 4.1752 BTC [+]
TomServo: https://facebookcorewwwi.onion/ <-- el. oh. el. FB on tor.
jurov: upon further reading... so stan wants to make everything into own OS. ic.
kakobrekla: well if you are playing 'what stan wants' game you prolly end up with 100% mechanical implementation of bitcoind
mats_cd03: huhuhu
mike_c: stan just wanted a book :)
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> well if you are playing 'what stan wants' game you prolly end up with 100% mechanical implementation of bitcoind << some things stan wants stan gets, some other things he gets to want even harder!
thickasthieves: lol
kakobrekla: mike_c a _MECHANICAL_ book.
thickasthieves: rewrite all the things
mircea_popescu: a mechanical book wouldbe pretty cool actually
mike_c: hehe, yeah. a book that mines.
kakobrekla: you know - at least you are dealing with jus one broken stack, not layers upon layers.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00073166 = 2.9998 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/booklove/
assbot: Book of Love page 1
asciilifeform somehow knew mircea_popescu would bring out -that- book
mircea_popescu: oglaf is the official cult comic.
mircea_popescu: someone should rewrite it.
mircea_popescu: (speaking of which : http://oglaf.com/sexmanual/ )
assbot: Sex Manual
adlai: here's a new word for the scamtionary: "pre-enroll"
mircea_popescu: as in you've been preapproved ?
adlai: from https://pocket.digitalx.com/ which appears to be trying to position itself as an entry point for a new wave of... some demographic that I can't quite pinpoint
assbot: digitalX Pocket
mircea_popescu: "stupid people" ?
adlai: is this a payment processor? web wallet? "merchant portal"? whatever the fuck does that even mean?
adlai: oh well i guess i gotta pre-enroll to find out
adlai: * Only paid upon verification of identity.
adlai still can't tell what the service does, other than pay you $10 for your identity
adlai: there's probably a nice little niche scamming these services
kakobrekla: you going to scam the scammer?
kakobrekla: go ahead and try.
adlai: in its logo, digitalx.com claims association with "digitalBTC"... wut
kakobrekla: adlai its a scam.
adlai: but i want my ten dollars!
kakobrekla: for that, you must refuse to do banana dance
kakobrekla did it.
mats_cd03: "Bitcoin accepted by Paypal"
adlai: http://youtu.be/m89rYW0epTs
assbot: Dance, Monkeys Dance!! - Ernest cline - YouTube
mircea_popescu: <adlai> there's probably a nice little niche scamming these services << and a good thing for that, too. if there weren't no parasites praying on parasites we'd be awash in 'em
kakobrekla: !s banana dance
assbot: 1 results for 'banana dance' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=banana+dance
kakobrekla: see adlai ^^
adlai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Siphonaptera
assbot: The Siphonaptera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: !s little fleas
assbot: 5 results for 'little fleas' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=little+fleas
kakobrekla: adlai its little fleas until you get to the turtles.
kakobrekla: or so i have been told.
adlai: up next, the long awaited sequel to Atlas Shrugged... "Turtle Dove"
asciilifeform: sequel 'atlas croaked'
asciilifeform always wanted to write it
jurov: <kakobrekla> you know - at least you are dealing with jus one broken stack, not layers upon layers. << you know, even newtonian mechanics themselves are just abstraction layer
asciilifeform: ;;google atlas shrug harder
gribble: The Infamous Brad - Atlas Shrugged 2: Shrug Harder - bradhicks: <http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/393124.html>; Going Galt - RationalWiki: <http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Going_Galt>; Atlas Shrugged: The Hidden Context of the Book and Film - David Brin: <http://www.davidbrin.com/aynrand.html>
asciilifeform: ^ infamous tr0l0l0l
mircea_popescu: jurov yes, but they're not broken.
mircea_popescu: imagine if newtonian mechanics leaked memory.
asciilifeform: !s bedrock
assbot: 17 results for 'bedrock' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bedrock
jurov: but they are broken
jurov: must account for friction, oxidation and whatnot
jurov: second law of thermodynamics describes these leaks pretty nicely
mircea_popescu: newtonian mechanics that leaked memory would be more like, suddenly you end up in a bubble of finite size that's diverged from the rest of the universe
asciilifeform remembers some rant (or was it a dream?) where 'dark matter' is universe-sim leaking memory
mircea_popescu: NOT anything like friction.
jurov: well, it leaks energy. so we went on to devise machines that would leak something else
asciilifeform: suddenly you end up in a bubble of finite size that's diverged from the rest of the universe << this featured in n. stephenson's mega-tale 'anathem'
jurov: instead
mircea_popescu: if you with some regularity could no longer find neither your girlfriend nor her house,
mircea_popescu: then you'd have a memory leaking situation
jurov: it does happen. how much stuff gets forgotten everty generation
asciilifeform: http://www.labyrinthinhabitant.com/anathem.html
assbot: Labyrinth Inhabitant Magazine
mircea_popescu: here's a funny point about "supported by history", especially when one means "history as selected by me" :
mircea_popescu: as human history presently stands, the reality of such memory loss is actually supported
mircea_popescu: say, atlantis went there.
jurov: theoretical wanking aside, we're still just beings living off thermodynamical gradients - thus fundamentally something must leak
mircea_popescu: jurov yes but, a register increasing is this sort of leak. you're saying we fundamentally can't live in an immutable world.
mircea_popescu: this is true
mircea_popescu: memory leak has nothing to do with this.
asciilifeform: second law of thermo exists. but it does not follow that we are required to piss in our pants.
asciilifeform: incidentally,
jurov: ^ you'll be lucky if that stays true in 40 years
asciilifeform: http://strangepaths.com/reversible-computation/2008/01/20/en
assbot: Reversible computation :: Strange Paths
asciilifeform: (originally r. feynman)
adlai: asciilifeform: this labyrinth inhabitant thingy seems neat
asciilifeform: adlai: based on book
asciilifeform: adlai: a riotously entertaining book, as thickasthieves might attest
adlai: you mean anathem, or the "labyrinth inhabitant" concept?
asciilifeform: 'anathem'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11606 @ 0.00073145 = 8.4892 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: <jurov> well, it leaks energy. so we went on to devise machines that would leak something else < what , computhas dont leak energy? thats new.
kakobrekla turns off 300rpm fans in his computah
kakobrekla has quit irc (ping timeout)
asciilifeform: (linked earlier) feynman did some entertaining gedankenexperimentation re: how much energy must one actually piss away in order to compute something
adlai: "ATLAS SHRUGGED royally sucks as a novel, with cardboard characters, rivers of contrived coincidence and dialogue made of macaroni http://www.davidbrin.com/aynrand.html#sthash.1W0F9hdP.dpuf
assbot: Atlas Shrugged: The Hidden Context of the Book and Film
asciilifeform: it's a perfectly serviceable women's pulp romance.
adlai: imo 'anthem' is much better, can be read in a single s(h)itting
asciilifeform: ('atlas.' once you know this, it bricks you in the face.)
asciilifeform: pet sayeth: 'best one i ever read!'
ben_vulpes: adlai: anathem? single shitting?
ben_vulpes: thou art a fast reader indeed.
adlai: 'anathem' ≠ 'anthem'
ben_vulpes: d;oh.
asciilifeform: not confuse 'anthem' (rand) with 'anathem' (stephenson)
ben_vulpes: !
asciilifeform: about as related as cats and sprats
ben_vulpes stands corrected.
adlai: http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Ayn_Rand/Anthem/ ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00073458 = 12.0838 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: adlai it royally sucks as a "philosophy", or "economic theory", too.
kakobrekla: actually im still here, cause it works w/o the fans.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, women are actually smarter than that.
adlai: kakobrekla: ping timeouts generally take more than 40 seconds...
kakobrekla: shutup
mircea_popescu: compare random paragraphs with random paragraphs culled off sandra brown, it'll be readily apparent in half hour
kakobrekla: adlai remember who brought you here !
adlai has seen [Lag: 172+] before
asciilifeform: !s sandra brown
assbot: 0 results for 'sandra brown' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sandra+brown
asciilifeform: ^ error. not found in universe bubble.
mircea_popescu: whatever, pick any one of the chick pulp authors
asciilifeform: еггог
mircea_popescu basks in the glory of being an anthropologist, and therefore politically allowed and intellectually immune to the drawbacks of rooting through the human headshit pile
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu must go through many gas mask filters.
mircea_popescu: if i'm quirky, it's because all those chemicals in the filters.
adlai: kakobrekla: i also remember why you brought me, but still haven't heard any feedback from you
mircea_popescu: that;d be because he cnat raed
adlai: ("the code is shit" is valid feedback atm, i'm more interested in the ideas behind it)
adlai: it's lisp, text-to-speech can render it just fine!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes asciilifeform others : here's an idea, can you make the official code also be a palindrome ?
asciilifeform: which code
mircea_popescu: that way nubsy doesn't need to worry which side is up.
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, the official bitcoin foundation official bitcoin core code.
mircea_popescu: official+^
mircea_popescu: ;;google c++ palindromes
gribble: c++ palindrome problem - C++ Forum - Cplusplus.com: <http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/29240/>; c++ - Check if a string is palindrome - Stack Overflow: <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8362572/check-if-a-string-is-palindrome>; Palindrome in String C++ - Stack Overflow: <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18326015/palindrome-in-string-c>
kakobrekla: adlai http://apina.biz/85530.jpg
assbot: http://apina.biz/85530.jpg
asciilifeform: next mircea_popescu will ask for it to be a quine.
adlai: http://de1.eu.apcdn.com/full/85530.jpg
adlai: asciilifeform: you know what the shortest common lisp quine is?
asciilifeform: adlai: 't'
adlai: or -
asciilifeform: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13186 (kudos to diametric) - too good to be true ?
assbot: SparkFun SIM Card - 6 Months (Unlimited Data) - CEL-13186 - SparkFun Electronics
adlai: - is amazing, because CL actually has the concept of a quine programmed into it's specification
asciilifeform: ^ vendor claims worldwide
adlai slinks back to pythonland
mircea_popescu: it can't be a quine, it has to blockchain
mircea_popescu: http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/20/software-doesnt-fail-socialism-does/#comment-4247 << this is probably the ultimate example of socialist mind rot.
asciilifeform: don't argue with shannonizer. it never gets tired.
asciilifeform: like trying to scoop out the sea with a tea cup.
mircea_popescu: so his argument goes that well, ussr is not a good example of how socialism generates wealth because it wasn't rich enough to begin with, whereas china is very rich now, so maybe it will try sociaism, notwithstanding that the path it took to get rich is the same path everyone took o get rich, specifically antisocialism.
mircea_popescu: such fatlogic.
mircea_popescu: "To broadly claim that socialism fails without examining its proper context and its successes is academically lazy, and betrays a rigidly static view of ideology. Pure and simple."
mircea_popescu: derp.
undata: mircea_popescu: but you see, once you've generated excess you have enough forever.
mircea_popescu: "to say that you will never give us free shit is ~academically~ badword and rigid!!11"
mircea_popescu: holy shit already, people, start whipping your children.
mircea_popescu: undata totally.
asciilifeform: x fails << еггог - 'fails' takes $argument
mircea_popescu: the shit they come up with you know ? "to claim that there are no solutions to X equation is RIGID!!!11"
adlai: +mircea_popescu | it can't be a quine, it has to blockchain << who says those are contradictory?
mircea_popescu: why won';t you be moar flexible!11
adlai: any program can be a quine
undata: mircea_popescu: also socialist measures of economic growth are never lies
adlai: although the proof doesn't fit in the margin of this irc buffer
mircea_popescu: adlai its output is already specified, and the specification is incompatible with quine
undata: the chinese are on the brink of post-scarcity; you'll see
adlai: output ≠ behavior
adlai: it can dump its source code to stderr
mircea_popescu: wait, wut ?!
mircea_popescu: lol are you being flexible ?
mircea_popescu: copy of its source code ~as its only output~
adlai: they obviously didn't have turds in mind at the time
mircea_popescu: anyway, why is teh hydra chosen to attempt turning pete of all peeps anyway ?
mircea_popescu: is he like the only b-a jew or something ?
asciilifeform: for strict quinitude - yes, only possible output
adlai: we could define that the turd network doesn't count as output, since it's communication between computers and not output to the user
adlai: alternatively, it could modify its own code to include the blockchain
adlai: it can end with the blockchain in a comment, and then when it's outputting, it just keeps spitting out blocks
asciilifeform does not regard quines as particularly interesting, because they are only a real challenge in retarded programming systems
asciilifeform: quite like how rhyming is only a serious feat in badly broken human langs
adlai: what languages would you count as broken?
asciilifeform: english, for one
mircea_popescu: adlai> we could define that the turd network doesn't count as output, since it's communication between computers and not output to the user <<< reading this sort of shit makes my head bleed
asciilifeform hands new gas mask canister to mircea_popescu
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: why are we speaking a broken language? what forces have caused this?
asciilifeform: qwerty.
adlai typos in dvorak
thestringpuller: wow prolific
adlai: mircea_popescu: requirements like regulation must adapt to best protect the public's interests
chetty: <adlai> mircea_popescu: requirements like regulation must adapt to best protect the public's interests// whats 'the public'? Who would you protect? and from what?
asciilifeform: (not the literal qwerty, but the 'platonic' qwerty seen as the overall human failing where folks agree on buggy shit and then cement it in place through 'sunk cost')
adlai: the public, from itself!
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this is why it is mind blowing.
chetty: <adlai> the public, from itself!//<<< opt out
adlai: by the people, of the people, for the people, from the people, against the people...
asciilifeform: ;;google once there was the people terror gave it birth
gribble: Poetry Lovers' Page - Rudyard Kipling: Macdonough's Song: <http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/macdonoughs_song.html>; Macdonough's Song. Rudyard Kipling. 1922. Verse: 1885-1918: <http://www.bartleby.com/364/318.html>; Once there was The People - Terror gave it birth - The Quotations ...: <http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/29843.html>
adlai: http://www.labyrinthinhabitant.com/simonsays.html
assbot: Labyrinth Inhabitant Magazine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7350 @ 0.00072948 = 5.3617 BTC [-] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: beautiful.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (not the literal qwerty, but the 'platonic' qwerty seen as the overall human failing where folks agree on buggy shit and then cement it in place through 'sunk cost') << fwiw i disagree with this assesment. english is broken because it's a commercial pigdin, language without a country. the old languages of yurp are actually fine, and to this day more powerful than any synthetic syntax.
mircea_popescu: yes, lisp included.
asciilifeform: pidgin - yes
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/#comment-109451
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
jurov: <kakobrekla> what , computhas dont leak energy? thats new.<< no i meant we want to devise machines that simulate non-leaking evironment
asciilifeform: ('lisp' as properly defined is not a programming language, but merely a catalogue of avoided mistakes in the construction of a programming language. see: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=405 )
assbot: Loper OS » The Simplest Lisp Machine
asciilifeform: 'In most (though not all) cases, all a designer must do in order to implement an unfeature is to refrain from tying the user’s hands in a particular way.' - yours truly
mircea_popescu: not a bad approach.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/#comment-109452
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: ^replied
mircea_popescu: discussion continues :)
jurov: ^replied
bounce: my isn't this an interesting irc conversation
asciilifeform: ^replied
mircea_popescu: similarly, both.
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/10/btc-guild-shutting-down-may-be-sold/
assbot: BTC Guild Shutting Down, May be Sold | Qntra.net
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52000 @ 0.00073865 = 38.4098 BTC [+] {5}
adlai: mircea_popescu: have you seen any serious science done on these topics?
mircea_popescu: adlai which these ?
adlai: asciilifeform: who were the sinecures?
asciilifeform: adlai: 'xxxxx studies'
adlai: mircea_popescu: the topics which are studied by the pseudosciences which you dismiss
mircea_popescu: nothing notable, no.
mircea_popescu: the entire field is essentially predicating that marx,cCarnagey, ziggler, the incredible hulk et al are actually scientists, or to be taken seriously.
adlai: i'm not even sure how you'd go about doing such research in a real scientific manner... lots of noise in the signals
mircea_popescu: not so unlike the purely usian folly of taking life advice from movie stars, "since we like this we might also pretend this is good, or right, or whatever"
mircea_popescu: primitive transference.
mircea_popescu: adlai well, wovon, eh ?
mircea_popescu: not like you HAVE TO
BingoBoingo: the incredible hulk << Actually a scientist
adlai: !ud wovon
chetty: actually some that current stuff that calls itself science wouldn't be so bad, it just needs to stop pretending it is science
mircea_popescu: adlai http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-claims/
assbot: The problem of claims pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
thestringpuller: ;;ud wovon
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wovon | ... Wovers Supporter. woverton · wove ya · Wovlz · Wovon · wow ...wow · W=OW · WOWA · WOWAA · wowabunga · WoWacholic · wowage ... Wovon isn't defined.
asciilifeform: the one inescapable fact about extraction of chemistry from thousand years of alchemy is that - it is done by chemists, rather than alchemists.
mircea_popescu: ^
asciilifeform: extraction of astronomy from astrology - ditto.
chetty: but asciilifeform latest stuff is trying to put them back together
adlai: mircea_popescu: wovon << alongside silence, i'd say questions are also a valid response to ignorance
asciilifeform: i've spent most of a decade trying to extract some nugget of living matter from 'computer science'
asciilifeform: whence and whether this goes - cannot say
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform self-styled "regulators" love to whine pathetic about the "irresponsible risk seeking behaviours" of banks or whoever, conveniently omitting to mention that it's the disease of the system, it's what socialism necessarily breeds (through blindness), and that they themselves took some insane gambles. such as the 50 year "let's finance pseudoscience, who knows,\ maybe it pays off"
chetty: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/25/birthday-personality_n_6014938.html
assbot: What Your Birthday Says About Your Mood And Personality, According To Science
mircea_popescu: adlai the point is that nothing forces you to speak on topics on which you have nothing to say
asciilifeform: no one wakes up and thinks 'today i will finance some pseudoscience.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well no banker wakes up and thinks "today i will lose some money"
asciilifeform: aha.
jurov: wtf is this nonsense. "chemist" label was applied only in hidsight
asciilifeform: jurov: that was the thought here
mircea_popescu: jurov yes. in hindsight. by people rejecting wholesale a 1000 years' pile of tradition.
jurov: they did not reject it
jurov: just extracted usable bits
jurov: plus, invented a scope
mircea_popescu: the moment they stopped trying to make gold, they rejected the search for gold.
asciilifeform: jurov: the (very fragile!) mechanism at work here is the process whereby the 'flies were separated from the cutlets'
mircea_popescu: it doesn't take some sort of official pronouncement, like the "chemistry foundation" of 1700 signed a statement that they "now hereby reject the heresy of alchemy"
mircea_popescu: just, as people stopped trying alchemy they rejected it, it's all therein contained.
asciilifeform: it is also worth thinking about what kind of cocks folks we regard as 'genuine article' had to suck, in their times, to stay fed. e.g., kepler's tours of duty as court astrologer.
asciilifeform wasn't bottle-buddies with kepler, cannot attest as to the degree of enthusiasm with which he sucked the cock
mircea_popescu: the word sinecure originates from this time, specifically the actual peasant sucking the cock's despising of the uncocksucky position of kepler.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform met quite a few genuine thinkers, leaves of living matter in the great garbage disposal of u.s. academia. folks who spend 90+% of their time on 'grantmanship' while fully aware of the idiocy of the entire structure. but had no escape ticket.
chetty: sadly as long as people keep looking for a 'ticket' this will continue
asciilifeform: the machine is actually structured very well to avoid creating conscious malcontents. they happen anyway.
asciilifeform: chetty: hero - straight to sword. what should mathematicians eat ?
mircea_popescu: their wife.
asciilifeform: 'El coronel necesitó setenta y cinco años —los setenta y cinco años de su vida, minuto a minuto— para llegar a ese instante. Se sintió puro, explícito, invencible, en el momento de responder. — Mierda.'
undata: 100k can march in the street here and the rest do not take note
asciilifeform: ('El coronel no tiene quien le escriba.')
chetty: well it is sad, I don't have an answer, just recognize the problem, ...what will turn the herd?
asciilifeform: ^ catastrophically-badly specified engineering problem
asciilifeform: let's try a physical approach.
undata: americans can't communicate with each other well enough to solve any problems.
asciilifeform: what does it actually take, in terms of resources, to keep a mathematician going?
asciilifeform: and can this come out of some reasonably-sane mechanism
undata: asciilifeform: how about owning the means to produce one's own food
undata: and being left alone
asciilifeform: and can the meat go into the man's mouth before being caked with flies?
undata: that's what I'm aiming for
asciilifeform: what does it take to keep the flies off.
asciilifeform: stephenson's tale provided one answer.
asciilifeform: it was a fictional story, however, not an engineering recipe.
asciilifeform: (in fact, specifically implied that it took place on a planet with slightly less retarded inhabitants than this one)
mircea_popescu: <undata> americans can't communicate with each other well enough to solve any problems. << this is true actually. seriously, "dating guides" ?
undata: if anyone knew, it'd have been done
undata: asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: "how to talk to women" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> what does it actually take, in terms of resources, to keep a mathematician going? << food.
mircea_popescu: and yes. wife.
asciilifeform: undata: otto lilienfeld has a transistor in the '20s.
undata: mircea_popescu: "someday the right master will pour the right answers into my head. then I'll be great, you'll see"
asciilifeform: undata: 'knew' -> 'done' is not automatic.
undata: asciilifeform: "knew" without a viable process to get to whats "known" is not "known"
undata: but elaborate
asciilifeform: undata: just one specific example where devil is in the details.
undata: for sure
asciilifeform: !s coffin liner
assbot: 3 results for 'coffin liner' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=coffin+liner
undata: asciilifeform: seems like the opportunity to get it "done" only arises from time to time
undata: there needs to be at that time someone with the sense to lead and the means to offer something in exchange
asciilifeform: example: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2014#506252 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2014 00:31:00; asciilifeform: 2 yrs. ago i figured out how to flex a fairly ordinary multi-conductor cable in an arbitrary spot, at an arbitrary angle, purely electrically.
asciilifeform: i (and quite a few other folks) have a collection of own 'lilienfeld's transistors'
asciilifeform: not everybody even bothers to tell anyone.
asciilifeform: ars longa.
undata: it is likely having grown up here that gives me deep skepticism that things are ever "better"
undata: rather than just in a different shape
undata: glorious leader given the power to reshape society tends to turn it into a masturbation implement
undata: maybe that points to cultivating better fetishes? hah
undata: regardless I'm not the guy
mircea_popescu: <undata> it is likely having grown up here that gives me deep skepticism that things are ever "better" << the canonical form of this is, "it is unlikely for the tadpole that ever lived in the same one puddle to imagine what different puddle means"
undata: I just want to write code and grow food
mircea_popescu: which is why young men should go abroad.
asciilifeform: asking inventors to always 'independently wealthy' is like asking your computer to harvest all of its energy (and material to create additional parts) from the environment on its own accord. a 'would be nice' scenario, but there are good reasons why it is not practical. machines that can do this exist, they are called animals, and generally have their own problems that prompt people to invent less-general machin
asciilifeform: es.
undata: mircea_popescu: having gained means I will likely do many things I've never done
undata: for now I'll grind my life away
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : anyone want to hear retold the ancient japanese story of the turtle from kyoto and the turtle from osaka ?
asciilifeform: me.
undata: sure
mircea_popescu: an old turtle had lived for many years in a pond in kyoto. in the later days a new concubine introduced a habit of throwing strands of silk over the pond, which became fashionable,
asciilifeform: undata: glorious leader given the power... tends to turn it into a masturbation implement << straight to aristotle's 'politics' on what the pill here is.
mircea_popescu: but bothered the turtle, because it could no longer see the light of the soon or the moon, or the stars.
mircea_popescu: an old turtle had lived for many years in a pond in osaka. in the later days a new concubine introduced a habit of launching ever more bright felinars at night, which bothered its sleep.
mircea_popescu: eventually the turtle from kyoto had enough of this indignity, and securely tying a salad leaf to its carapace, proceeded on the road to osaka.
mircea_popescu: eventually the turtle from osaka had enough of this indignity, and securely tying a salad leaf to its carapace, proceeded on the road to kyoto.
mircea_popescu: after putting step after step for long enough they met at the midpoint of the road between kyoto and osaka.
mircea_popescu: they saluted each other, and soon realised each comes from the other's destination. so they naturally inquired
mircea_popescu: how is osaka like ?!
mircea_popescu: oh, terrible brother, just terrible. how about kyoto ?
mircea_popescu: just as terrible as well!
mircea_popescu: then, after a moment of reflection, they said their goodbies and parted ways
mircea_popescu: the turtle from osaka, back towards its pond, in osaka
mircea_popescu: and the turtle from kyoto, back towards its pond
mircea_popescu: in kyoto.
adlai: should've chatted over a beer rather than hurriedly yapping on the road
adlai: salutes have quite low information density
mircea_popescu: adlai there is no guarantee that turtle language includes space for more than "terrible"./
adlai: how terrible
mircea_popescu: you're generally not at liberty to rely on an infinite representational space.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: much shorter soviet version:
asciilifeform: 'a hedgehog marches in the fog, with a rifle.' 'not funny at all, but at least it's a tale about war!'
mircea_popescu: (to be perfectly fair the original japanese folk story doesn't have that explicit in there, but hey. posteriority separates and all that)
asciilifeform: explicit doesn't work for teaching.
asciilifeform: just as looking at a set of weights doesn't grow muscle.
undata: asciilifeform: depends, are you teaching a new language?
asciilifeform: undata: there, the implicit part is 'go reverse engineer'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: machines that can do this exist, they are called animals, and generally have their own problems that prompt people to invent less-general machines. << splendidly put.
asciilifeform: incidentally, this doesn't always work. witness the mindless regurgitators who shine in every academic chumpatron.
asciilifeform: 'inventor must be wealthy' works about as well as 'computer ought to be a cow.' wouldntitbenice.
undata: members of my family grow their own food, and do so without taking up their entire day
undata: I don't buy it.
asciilifeform: undata: what do they pay protection money with ?
undata: asciilifeform: the rest of their day
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: qed.
undata: there's the problem then, not the food
asciilifeform: 'food' in the abstract, in the sense of what is the total input required for the 'machine' (mr inventor) to function.
undata: we can make iPhones, but not reduce the work required to produce food?
undata: I'm watching people do it with crude processes
mircea_popescu: careful with those "We"s brother
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: lest i make you show me how you produce ipods.
mats_cd03: the work required to produce food _has_ been reduced
undata: surely you see what I'm driving at.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 then why don't you have any ?
undata: I know people with a greenhouse and a field that eat *very* well, better than I do.
mats_cd03: ~200mn chinese work the fields. ~12mn americans do the same task, afaik.
asciilifeform: thing is, food (per se) is presently a mostly free ride, for so long as petrochemistry keeps trucking.
mats_cd03: thanks, technology!
mircea_popescu: this is the quintesential broken approach. there's "food" as you're talking, there's "food" as he's talking.
mircea_popescu: these aren't the same.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but somehow the people who expect to be able to eat without being slaves also bitch at the people fighting for the oil requisite for that arrangement.
mats_cd03: i don't agree with this distinction
undata: "rulers will always want all of my time" ?
mircea_popescu: because ars longa, vision short-a.
asciilifeform: ahaha yes.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1FTMR6G.txt )
asciilifeform: !b 2 ✂︎
mats_cd03: the food i consume has nutrition, and calories, and it sates the appetite. so far, my life expectancy has not changed in any way. how is it nto food?
undata declares himself confused
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 it's not the whole story of food.
mats_cd03: we've been over this thing, where "americans don't eat real food"
mircea_popescu: the food your master chooses to dispense to you in exchange for scrip that master has given you n the first place
mats_cd03: sure. true story. doesn't mean "real food" isn't actually available.
undata: mats_cd03: wandering further from the mark
mircea_popescu: is obviously a dependency on the fucking master in question
asciilifeform: there is a reason why i say 'usaschwitz.' what's the actual problem, in most people's mind, with living in a concentration camp?
mircea_popescu: and if putin keeps hammering him in the head all over the middle east, your scrip may be as good as the confederate's.
undata: mircea_popescu: the master imposes the need to be fed by the master
undata: people fed themselves throughout history
undata: and before it
mircea_popescu: undata not so.
asciilifeform: or, rephrase: does it actually cost 2k usd/mo. to keep the box presently over my head standing? if not, who pockets the difference?
mircea_popescu: people, of the common kind, can only be fed by a master.
asciilifeform: and what units is it denominated in, in actuality.
undata: mircea_popescu: to say what of the people I know who feed themselves?
mircea_popescu: undata that they're momentarily realising gains out of externalised costs that haven't yet caught up with them.
mircea_popescu: once they get lynched by an angry mob you can say what you will,
mircea_popescu: for we're looking at the full story.
undata: mircea_popescu: where's the ruler then?
undata: and if he doesn't want them feeding themselves and working hard, what's he doing?
mircea_popescu: keeping the mob busy on reddit atm
undata: isn't this exactly my point?
mircea_popescu: i dunno.
asciilifeform: externalised costs << the entire story of government is - some folks staying warm by burning other folks' furniture (or dessicated carcasses.)
asciilifeform: see also, obligatory, j.c. scott, 'the art of not being governed.'
asciilifeform: or hell, kropotkin.
mats_cd03: i can't have this discussion strictly framed in metaphors and still understand what you're talking about
undata: mircea_popescu: I am suggesting that the people I'm describing are doing it right
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 puncture one, we can go from there
mats_cd03: or rather, can't grok.
mircea_popescu: that's the point of metaphores, to keep getting punctured.
undata: and that the ruler might be wise to set conditions for their success, not the others
mircea_popescu: out of their dried skins reality is built
undata: lest we all eat corn byproducts and let our country burn
asciilifeform: the only thing inventor (artist, whoever) can do is argue to the arsonist that he'd be of more use as something other than firewood
mircea_popescu: undata surely, everyone who's alive is doing ~it~ right
undata: mircea_popescu: depends on what comes in the next frame
undata: they may just be incredibly shortsighted
mircea_popescu: so yes, i grant that too, that your guys are pretty well above most.
mircea_popescu: in terms of likely future frames.
undata: http://data3.whicdn.com/images/50186242/large.png
mircea_popescu: but this alone is not nearly the strength of your previous statement.
asciilifeform: see also:
asciilifeform: ;;google you and the atomic bomb
gribble: George Orwell: You and the Atomic Bomb: <http://orwell.ru/library/articles/ABomb/english/e_abomb>; Orwell's 5 greatest essays: No. 4, "You and the Atomic Bomb" - Los ...: <http://articles.latimes.com/2013/nov/05/business/la-fi-mh-orwells-atomic-20131104>; Fifty Orwell Essays - Project Gutenberg Australia: <http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300011h.html>
asciilifeform: (rules of engagement between the 'arsonist' and the 'firewood' are determined primarily by technological state of the art)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since the iris young nitwit was mentioned, here's a q for you : how many maths or generally actual scientists you ever heard of that were full professors at 34 ?
asciilifeform: today? in usa?
mircea_popescu: or phd at 25 ?
asciilifeform: i know of none, anywhere.
mircea_popescu: yes,
mircea_popescu: well, she did it, somehow.
asciilifeform: and if there lives one, he's sitting on grant committees with the other zeks.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform is glad that he was drummed out of academia
asciilifeform at least gets to go down fighting
undata acknowledges that a lot of people "doing it right" got smashed to pieces when the USSR collapsed as well
asciilifeform could point out that today's phd is not the same animal as james clerk maxwell's. but doubts that it needs saying.
undata: this goes to my earlier statement about good people eating bullets
undata: the US is just... done.
asciilifeform: he - 25, yes. but today, it just means you give 'good head.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform combination of good head and good tits
mircea_popescu: it's not fully learnable.
asciilifeform: or the male equivalent.
asciilifeform not specialist.
mircea_popescu: actually the reason it can't be fully learnable has more to do with godel than with tits and ass.
asciilifeform: more predator/prey equilibrium
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00073247 = 1.2452 BTC [-]
undata: asciilifeform: today's american phd has the requisite psychology to thrive climbing ~25 years of bureaucracy
asciilifeform: starting from grade school.
undata: yep
asciilifeform: and not simply bureaucracy in the usual sense of the word.
undata: soul-crushing meaningless process
undata: the US public school system is a prison system
mircea_popescu: ;;google "in the attempt to make prison more like school, they made school more like prison"
gribble: New Orleans schools feel too much like prisons | The Hechinger ...: <http://hechingerreport.org/content/new-orleans-schools-feel-much-like-prisons_15964/>; The School-to-Prison Pipeline | Teaching Tolerance: <http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-43-spring-2013/school-to-prison>; Fact Sheet: How Bad Is the School-to-Prison Pipeline? | Tavis ... - PBS: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: 'prussian' schooling is not in itself fatal. plenty of worthwhile folks survived it. but requisite in 'survive' is 'escape.'
undata: mircea_popescu: the highschool in my home town was apty designed by a prison architect
undata: *aptly
mircea_popescu: fuck you google, that's the worst matching ever.
mircea_popescu: ;;google "under the guise of making prison more like school the reverse is of course accomplished."
gribble: Digging through archives yields gold pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/digging-through-archives-yields-gold>; Rehabilitation Facts, information, pictures | Encyclopedia.com ...: <http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Rehabilitation.aspx>; Top 10 Reagan Achievements | Human Events: <http://humanevents.com/2011/02/06/top-10-reagan-achievements/>
mircea_popescu: y u not know natural language!
undata: asciilifeform: to say nothing of its waste, though
asciilifeform: waste is a 2nd law invariant.
mircea_popescu: undata you can't waste the living.
undata: mircea_popescu: please elaborate.
mircea_popescu: if you don't eat a bit of lard, some rat will find it.
asciilifeform: 'sanitars of the forest' !
mircea_popescu: the proof that there was nothing there to waste in the first place is the simple fact of having been wasted.
undata: by what metrics would you like me to describe the failings of the american system?
mircea_popescu: good q.
asciilifeform: the concept of 'waste' requires a process goal.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but how do you measure the wastefullness of pointlessness ?
asciilifeform: e.g., if the objective is to fatten pigs, rather than rats, then yes - waste.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this requires inventing 'point.'
asciilifeform: the basic setting on the dial.
mircea_popescu: i suppose in a system without objective all is a waste, which reduces to what i said.
undata: "that which maximizes human growth and survival"
undata: is good
asciilifeform: precisely
asciilifeform: 'precisely' to mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: undata it's pretty good nonsense, yeah
undata: and that's strictly an opinion
asciilifeform: not to 'growth and survival'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25509 @ 0.00073263 = 18.6887 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform too late :D
jurov: i'd rather like an answer that when current system finally fails due to bitcoin, will this get us rid of only the bad ideas?
asciilifeform uninterested in human biomass maximization
mircea_popescu: jurov definitely not.
undata: mircea_popescu: how is any other goal coherent absent that
undata: asciilifeform: that's not what I said
mircea_popescu: undata there is no goal possible in politics.
undata: maximizing biomass may not maximize survival
mircea_popescu: hence the entire "proceed from cause not towards goals" thing.
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 327911 | Current Difficulty: 3.598564026507623E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 328607 | Next Difficulty In: 696 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 38956321236.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.25518
undata: mircea_popescu: then why does every leader impose one?
undata: is that not his role?
jurov: i guess the surviving ideas and people will get selected cvasi randomly
mircea_popescu: only shitty "leaders" do.
jurov: thus the trilema's article is false
mircea_popescu: jurov no, not randomly.
jurov: how not?
asciilifeform: the basic 'job description' of the aristocrat is to specify 'point'
mircea_popescu: how so lol! wait, i'm proving the negative now ?
asciilifeform: i.e. 'where to live to'
jurov: there was pseudoscience before wwiii, there was not much less of it after
jurov: *wwii
jurov: perhaps, depending where you lived
undata: I'd enjoy clarification of the point that there are no goals in politics.
undata: goal implies end state?
asciilifeform: extant problem is not the overabundance of 'flies' (plenty of funded garbage in babylon as now) but the disappearance of 'cutlets'.
mircea_popescu: undata here's an article discussing that "leaders" thing : http://trilema.com/2014/on-the-superiority-of-monarchy-or-adnotations-to-why-the-worst-get-on-top/
assbot: On The Superiority of Monarchy (or, adnotations to Why the Worst Get on Top) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: specifically, "What fucking plans ? Why does the dictator have to absolutely have some sort of plans, aforethought ? Maybe he’s a dictator in the proper sense, because his group perceived him as worthy. He didn’t go to them, like an obnoxious lawyer spawn, with a list of whatever items are fashionable - promises, intentions, qualities, college degrees - to ask to be made a dictator and thus have the gaping void and
mircea_popescu: ontological fear of nothingness chewing away at his frail identity somehow resolved.x No, maybe they came to him, saying “look Cincinnatus, you are the best among us, and the best by so very far you must be our dictator” and he said “Maybe; we’ll see”. What plans did then Cincinnatus have, exactly ? That all men must assemble on the Camp of Mars ? And if they hadn’t, what exact moral impediment’d have th
mircea_popescu: at been for him ?"
jurov: well, chtuhlhu would certainly be "perceived as worthy"
mircea_popescu: by some.
jurov: would he promote rationa thought?
mircea_popescu: (ie, the chtulhy cult)
asciilifeform: the disappearance of the aristicrat (fellow who is bred to the task of 'deciding where to live to') is the basic boojum
asciilifeform: everybody with half a neuron (aristotle to mr moldbug) groks this
jurov: not by some. by everyone by order. that's definition of dictatorship.
mircea_popescu: jurov not so. the definition of dictatorship is merely "he whose word makes truth"
jurov: example?
thestringpuller: jurov: well, chtuhlhu would certainly be "perceived as worthy" << unless someone like Cartman befriends him.
mircea_popescu: cincinnatus says "all men must gather on the camp of mars" and now all men in actual fact must so gather.
asciilifeform: what modern folks think of as 'dictator' is really, (psychiatric observation) the name given to a fellow who tries to do the job of aristocrat without having been bred for the task (as in a woman who thinks she can fill in for a milk cow)
thickasthieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2kwmhd/btcguild_shutting_down/
assbot: Btcguild shutting down. : Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves was on qntra earlier
thestringpuller: thickasthieves: http://qntra.net/2014/10/btc-guild-shutting-down-may-be-sold/ << qntra is on it
thickasthieves: ah fuk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite so. some women manage admirably.
asciilifeform: but observe, no human dairy farms. (perhaps a mere engineering problem!)
mircea_popescu: (if we're to trust the usual US statistics and general scientific consensus, which is to say comic books)
mircea_popescu: ;;google woman milking farm
gribble: Picturing Women Farmers - Modern Farmer: <http://modernfarmer.com/2014/05/picturing-women-farmers/>; Success story of a diary farming by Women : Sweety Diary Farm ...: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ9Uw15lqz0>; At our farm - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABuqHmyDxG0>
mircea_popescu: o.O
jurov: "all men must gather on the camp of mars" and now all men in actual fact must so gather. << okay, but to return to the topic, how this advances rational thought?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9144 @ 0.00073349 = 6.707 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: jurov the dictator's a political institution, not a gnoseological tool.
jurov: oh that was an answer to undata
mircea_popescu: hmm can't find it now, but ayway, there's an entire wank niche dedicated to woman-to-cow transformations, woman-dairy farms etc.
asciilifeform unsurprised
mircea_popescu: about as good science as krugman's economics or obama's peace.
mircea_popescu: "makes me warm inside" criterion.
mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/fountain-of-doubt/ << rational process.
assbot: Fountain of Doubt
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3203922895939197@naggum.net.html << pertinent
assbot: Re: Engineering Envy [was: Re: CL and UML] - Naggum cll archive
asciilifeform: ^ for anyone still awake
mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/fountain-of-death/ << further rational process
assbot: Fountain of Death
undata: mircea_popescu: in reading your article, it seems that one of the disconnects in the above has been that I perceive certain kinds of conflict wasteful which you do not.
mircea_popescu: well, the problem with "wasteful" is you gotta specify more about the situation than you can.
undata: mircea_popescu: being that I'm not the one setting goals for the society
mircea_popescu: has all the spunk that hasn't filled a vagina been wasted ? how about that's not been swallowed ? rubbed on tits ?
mircea_popescu: what is this waste you speak of.
undata: in my particular, engineers who rot in the halls of googles and facebooks, I think
mircea_popescu: you don't like the ulterior effects of socialism, but you do like some of the premises, such as "X for all", as in, "a future for all", "a chance for all" etc.
mircea_popescu: well... whence this bonanza ?
undata: no, I don't. it's not socialism for my family to feed itself
mircea_popescu: to try to.
undata: but I can see that I've used some of their terms to describe how I feel about it
mircea_popescu: so does everyone, what, you think kaybosh hungerlice of kenya isn't trying ?
mircea_popescu: he's trying alright.
undata: so my family feeds itself because it presently can, which indicates nothing about whether that fact is due to their own action
undata: I can buy that.
mircea_popescu: im not going as far.
mircea_popescu: you presently are able to feed yourself, which indicates nothing about whether you OUGHT TO be so able.
undata: I think I'm just arguing for more robust citizens
undata: ah
undata: what is the benefit of weakened citizens?
mircea_popescu: because never an is and an ought shall kiss.
mircea_popescu: benefit to whom ?
undata: well hell, I don
undata: t know
undata: haha
mircea_popescu: so then that's your answer :)
undata: mircea_popescu: when you get used to masters which withold food, don't you dream of otherwise?
mircea_popescu: my dreams are not comprehensible in human language.
mircea_popescu: anyway, any frustrated desire is as entitled as any other. once it satisfies itself so it's no longer a desire it will have gained its rightful death.
undata: given the task to deliver, does it help the trucker's delivery to have only enough gas to arrive at his destination
mircea_popescu: sure.
undata: and if the man who designates the quota miscalulated, the load is lost
mircea_popescu: well maybe, sue.
mircea_popescu: sure*
undata: mircea_popescu: and then the truckers get tired of losing loads and we lose generations instead
mircea_popescu: well, "lose"
mircea_popescu: the 2000-2010 generation of usians isn't anymore lost than the 1500-1510 generation of usians
mircea_popescu: who mostly got eaten by wolves or w/e, or the 1000-1010 generation, that didn't even exist.
mircea_popescu: whence this expectation to be important and matter anyway ?
undata: everyone wants what he wants
BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/10/31/qntra-nearly-a-month-in/
assbot: Qntra: Nearly a month in | Bingo Blog
undata: I'd rather not matter to anyone.
mircea_popescu: so then what do you care about "wasted" generations whatever that may mean.
undata: lets say there's a comet heading for us
undata: and lets say the guy that knew how to stop it shot himself 10 years ago because he could not find a use
undata: the ruler should be a search function identifying merit and putting it to work
mircea_popescu: listen, you were here earlier when rand was being put down for being verbose, pointlessly so.
undata: above, masturbation implement
mircea_popescu: there's very little economy in your fiction, not just this present comet thing, but the previous thing with the truck. such wasteful abuse of literary means.
mircea_popescu: art comes from economy.
mircea_popescu: so, you're asking me to believe that the guy was going to stop the comet with his cock ? or how exactly did he get to be the ONE ?
mircea_popescu: is this a comic book ?
BingoBoingo: Maybe?
mircea_popescu: there's a reason i quote shakespeare rather than rand.
BingoBoingo: Comet Stopping Cock might be a decent flick
undata: rulers which don't care about the lives of their underlings eventually burn
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i think the orgasm subtext in "comet" needs moar usage tho.
mircea_popescu: undata all rulers eventually burn. and all underlings, too.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well a good story needs an antagonist, in this case the Comet Cummer
mircea_popescu: this earth-and-heaven xtianity thing... it really got people enthralled did it.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo why not "the coming of the comet"
BingoBoingo: Seems that way
mircea_popescu: ;;google "above you only sky"
gribble: Above Us Only Sky: <http://aboveusonlysky.net/>; Above Us Only Sky Bar & Bungalows (Sihanoukville, Cambodia ...: <http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g325573-d1639256-Reviews-Above_Us_Only_Sky_Bar_Bungalows-Sihanoukville_Sihanoukville_Province.html>; Above Us Only Sky in SihanoukVille, Cambodia. - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLBE5ycN_Tk>
undata: and no possessions too?
mircea_popescu: no.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo why not "the coming of the comet" << I'm thinking a series of comets head towards earth, they were uncharted. Astronauts go to find the source and it's jsut a masturbating space giant. They have to fuck it and make it a pocket pussy so it stops endangering worlds with its seed
mircea_popescu: he gets things half right, it's how teh sews work.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sounds like a decent "lsd/pot stories" series.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well... kina how B movies make their bread
thestringpuller: Random and off topic. Pierre_Rochard was telling me about a country whose economy was riddle with Ponzi Schemes to the point real businesses were losing value because the ponzi's outnumbered the real businesses. I think it's Albania http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_schemes_in_Albania Maybe someone can help shed more light as he didn't know what the country was at the time.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller this was actually amply discussed in here, a while back.
thestringpuller: is it albania?
undata: mircea_popescu: 'we all die someday' was not what I was saying
thestringpuller: !s Albania scheme
assbot: 0 results for 'Albania scheme' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Albania+scheme
undata: what we do before we die is what's relevant
thestringpuller: !s Albania pyramid scheme
assbot: 0 results for 'Albania pyramid scheme' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Albania+pyramid+scheme
thestringpuller: !s Albania ponzi
assbot: 0 results for 'Albania ponzi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Albania+ponzi
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yeah it is.
thestringpuller: i'll dig into logs. thanks mp
undata: should the ruler not care about the continued breathing of the peasants, the peasants are best off making themselves as useless a burden to him as possible
undata: that's where that antagonism ends up
undata: or... "if you do not make me an offer worth taking, I will work for someone else"
undata: absent the socialist subsidy of failure this works fine
asciilifeform: there has to be a 'someone else.'
asciilifeform: !s pepsi
assbot: 27 results for 'pepsi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=pepsi
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller http://pastebin.com/YVTBA8fV quick grep
assbot: 2014 Feb 28 08:55:06 <mircea_popescu>diametric: the latest trend is that Mar - Pastebin.com
undata: asciilifeform: there are myriad other producers of the same syrupy garbage
undata: I can walk to one that makes their own in two blocks
asciilifeform: undata: nah. pepsi in the sense of kingdoms to defect to.
undata: pepsi isn't the king
asciilifeform: and a sufficiently porous fence.
undata: and shouldn't be
undata: the ruler should be setting the conditions for an operating market and then letting it run
undata: and should in that sense is "it is in the interest of the subjects to light themselves on fire otherwise"
asciilifeform: undata: 'pepsi' in the sense of an alternative to 'coke', which, in the lack of alternative, turns into 'usg soda'
undata: rulers die, do they not?
undata: it's the building that remains
undata: what beyond contract inforcement and defense does one want out of a government?
asciilifeform: e.g., pre-unification italy, where if you were stuck under a ruler who isn't fond of trigonometry, you could walk to the domain of another who is - and will hold your pursuers off by force of arms, if he's an aficionado of your work
undata: asciilifeform: I find it hard to not use that example to support my point of view
asciilifeform: see the life of, e.g., leon theremin, to see that this does not always work as planned - but it is still the only thing that works.
asciilifeform: if there were a 'pepsi' alternative to usg, folks who can make any claim at value would be defecting in droves.
asciilifeform: ('usg' here should be read as the entire nato blok.)
undata: so there should be many small militaries constantly warring?
asciilifeform: yes.
undata: that's the stupidist thing I've heard today.
undata: sounds like a great way to make militarism the only thing practiced.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3193 @ 0.00073252 = 2.3389 BTC [-]
undata: half the planet irradiated for the glory of the leader
undata: you end up with the best leader and nothing to lead.
adlai: best military* leader
undata: adlai: half in here imagine themselves a mongol as they sit hunched over a keyboard
adlai is more troglodyte than mongol
undata would be headed thataway in a firefly class vessel were it 200yrs later
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.00073239 = 9.5577 BTC [-] {2}
mats_cd03: this business of wanting is what got us into this mess in the first place
jurov: X-BT goes with altcoin
mats_cd03: letting that kind of talk run its course is how you get socialism. everybody wants, everybody gets.
jurov: just got email it's closing
mats_cd03: assuming world peace is the rightful, desirable end state is kind of silly
Apocalyptic: was no point running it any longer
jurov: you did not offer it for sale?
Apocalyptic: it's probably not worth much as is
asciilifeform: irradiated for the glory of the leader << funny how this happened to exactly no one back when 'small militaries constantly warring' was a thing.
BingoBoingo: qntra.net/2014/10/bitreserve-holds-your-bitcoins-as-fiat/ from thestringpuller
asciilifeform: BTC Guild Shutting Down, May be Sold << say hello to usg's brand-spanking-new mining pool reserve.
thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitreserve-holds-your-bitcoins-as-fiat/
kakobrekla: its its size marginal ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i invented a new collective noun
mircea_popescu: a SCAM of words.
jurov: Apocalyptic: too busy outside btc?
Apocalyptic: yeah, that's the main reason, the ATC trading was the only thing that kept me running it lately
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> if there were a 'pepsi' alternative to usg, folks who can make any claim at value would be defecting in droves. << there is, they aren't.
mircea_popescu: not in droves anyway.
mircea_popescu: perhaps because never has it been the case that value and droves met.
mircea_popescu: well nice of you to have accomodated Apocalyptic
mircea_popescu: ;;rated Apocalyptic
gribble: You rated user Apocalyptic on Fri Feb 14 01:37:20 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: x-bt.com etc.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate Apocalyptic 2 ex-x-bt.com
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user Apocalyptic has changed from 1 to 2.
mircea_popescu: <undata> half the planet irradiated for the glory of the leader << you confuse warring kingdoms with warring democracies.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying you don't like fishing because you've been in a hurricane once.
Apocalyptic: thank you guys for having given it a shot, was a nice experience
mircea_popescu: <mats_cd03> assuming world peace is the rightful, desirable end state is kind of silly << it's just another way to assume "immutability", because limited intellect aka ars longa, vita brevis.
mircea_popescu: irl, the resilient bridges are not the rigidly immobile ones.
thestringpuller: Apocalyptic: very sad. where will we trade ATC nao?
mircea_popescu: which is exactly why "life is a war" at all levels.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo x-bt qntra article pls ? there's precious few clean closures in the space,
mircea_popescu: and i very much doubt any of the bezzle-powered "entrepreneurs" will ever manage one.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo x-bt qntra article pls ? there's precious few clean closures in the space, << Will do.
xanthyos: !up RetroUpriser
BingoBoingo: %p
BingoBoingo: %d
atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 464.54 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 0 TH/s
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 469547.73 Est. Next Diff: 268301.76 in 869 blocks (#48384) Est. % Change: -42.86
mircea_popescu: "Or perhaps they did that stupid human trick that never fails: If you have excess funds, procreate until you no longer have excess funds, then share the funds equally until you all die." << naggum clearly "does not understand how the world works", and what everyone's "rights" are and so on.
[]bot: Bet created: "Eric Frein to receive death sentence" http://bitbet.us/bet/1061/
mircea_popescu: for the record, that "stupid human trick" is exactly how selection works.
Apocalyptic: BingoBoingo, check your PM, if you didn't
jurov: BingoBoingo: wait i don't see my litecoins yet :D
jurov: hafta resync first
RetroUpriser: ;;everify birdman freenode:#bitcoin-otc:58ca0dddae4daaab73388a8682c74fb02dcf69b079532108f6a11872
gribble: (everify <otp>) -- Verify the latest encrypt-authentication request by providing your decrypted one-time password. If verified, you'll be authenticated for the duration of the bot's or your IRC session on channel (whichever is shorter).
mircea_popescu: RetroUpriser no "birdman"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00073458 = 6.0236 BTC [+]
jurov: BingoBoingo: they arrived, i can say x-bt shut down cleanly
jurov: except for some 27 satoshi.. but Apocalyptic can have a ..er.. glass of water for them
mircea_popescu: maybe a pipette
jurov: Apocalyptic: *bitcoin* satoshi
jurov: wait, can i buy half of altcoin and withdraw?
Apocalyptic: haha, probably not
Apocalyptic: min order is 300 btc satoshi of value
jurov: :'(
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: These things come out mid-November http://bitbet.us/bet/882/giancarlo-stanton-wins-nl-mvp/
assbot: BitBet - Giancarlo Stanton wins NL MVP :: 0.08 B (35%) on Yes, 0.15 B (65%) on No | closed 2 months 1 day ago
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: ^
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: dude i'm so motherfucking banning bs sport bets...
mircea_popescu: here's 5 gb worth of randomly idiotic rules nobody cares about, police all that and you may earn 27 satoshi!
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/21VKKFJ.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 3 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/sermon/ << can we have this cult ?
assbot: Sermon
Apocalyptic: ident BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'BingoBoingo', with hostmask 'BingoBoingo!~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo', is identified as user 'BingoBoingo', with GPG key id 309BB8D7F3251143, key fingerprint ADD7A9A28F85E5EF1F51904F309BB8D7F3251143, and bitcoin address None
Apocalyptic: ty
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo thanks for pointing that out btw, hadn't been paid yet so salvageable.
mircea_popescu: you got in jit.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You're welcome
mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/0ffY3c8K << mod sentiment barometer.
assbot: i'm trying to find where i got the resolution source. there were at least two. o - Pastebin.com
BingoBoingo: Well it will be over soon. I don't think after November there will be many post-World Cup sports bets left.
mircea_popescu: just the fucking inanity of it. i have no idea how those imbeciles think they're managing their franchise
mircea_popescu: but i tell you, when you can't tell a mvp from a fake vietnamese boot the whole thing's dead in the water.
BingoBoingo: Still not as fucked as the original submitter's time frame for resolving it... A month before the season ends.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://oglaf.com/obituator/ << re "crazy shit stick on all sides of rifle"
assbot: The Obituator
cazalla: chetty: <cazalla> it only went pink once it hit the water, not like it was a stream of red aids coming out//check with wife, this also happens with freshly cleaned toilets sometimes <<< she cleans? this is news to me
mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/sanctuary/ << "your own country"
assbot: Sanctuary
mircea_popescu: i mean cuntry.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla feature request : i
mircea_popescu: 'd like a "day" name as a single line between the "home | log | search | bash | stats | wiki" and "prev/next" to be settable with an assbot command
mircea_popescu: so i can make today "Oglaf Appreciation Day"
mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/pinecone/ http://oglaf.com/pinecone/2/ << wet dreams of media.
assbot: A Pinecone
assbot: A Pinecone page 2
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/10/x-bt-exchange-shutting-down/
assbot: X-BT Exchange Shutting Down | Qntra.net
ben_vulpes: <mats_cd03> the food i consume has nutrition, and calories, and it sates the appetite. so far, my life expectancy has not changed in any way. << how wouldja know?
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: would make a great epitaph incidentally.
mircea_popescu: "through this, my life expectancy has not changed in any way"
kakobrekla: how wouldja know? << http://i.imgur.com/NVYFCr6.jpg
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 327930 | Current Difficulty: 3.598564026507623E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 328607 | Next Difficulty In: 677 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 16 hours, 47 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 38947982793.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.23201
cazalla: BingoBoingo, added a read more tag to btc guild article
BingoBoingo: k
BingoBoingo: Ah missed it
jurov: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 336.71, Best ask: 337.87, Bid-ask spread: 1.16000, Last trade: 337.89, 24 hour volume: 7560.53173414, 24 hour low: 335.5, 24 hour high: 347.96, 24 hour vwap: 342.188350829
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla guessing!
BingoBoingo: headed off for the weekend, might pop on a few times before returning SUnday/Monday.
mircea_popescu: http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/a6-corporation << this thing shockingly still exists.
assbot: A6 Corporation | CrunchBase
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00073512 = 6.7999 BTC [+]
adlai: they should pivot to ASIC fab