log
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asciilifeform only nao finished the proggy for ffa ch10, a backbreaker. nao for the text...
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: unfortunately not. Am here because I finally have a nice setup where I won't get kicked regularly. While I have been reading some FFA and DC I do not have anything running at the moment
asciilifeform: hey gabriel_laddel -- other than substances... do anything noteworthy in recent times ? ever read ffa series ? interested in s.bisp ? read diana_coman's www ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779409 << this should prolly be standard preface of ada behaviour discussions ; ffa or non-ffa related. asciilifeform maybe you should add it as a comment you know ? at the top of the pile, "if anything's strange say @me in #trilema, please preface the saying with and-here's-my-grep-v" ☝︎
asciilifeform: in other experiments, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767440 appears to hold true across all ffa chapters. ☝︎
asciilifeform: and http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc/tree/ffa/ffacalc/os.ads
asciilifeform: the 'main is in ada; some imports from c' variant is also illustrated in ffa, in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc/tree/ffa/ffacalc/cmdline.ads
asciilifeform: ( it is imho unlikely that anyone will demonstrate an rsatron with fewer moving parts than ffa-ch5 )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: in some applications, speed doesn't really matter almost at all. and in those, it is even now possible to, e.g., take ch5 ffa for rsatron.
diana_coman admits that is one of the things she really, really likes about ffa
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the observation re 'take as much speed as you actually need, but not more, if costs ugliness' is correct and is in fact the basis for ffa
asciilifeform: in re shifts/rotates ( as seen in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/w_shifts.ads ) one nitpick : Shift_Left, etc. are not per se gnat-specific; they are in the standard. but for some perverse reason their ~invocation~ is implementation-specific, and requires this gnaticism.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 17:36 asciilifeform: the only way to detect overflow on risc-v is the algo i used in ffa.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-30 16:45 asciilifeform: !~later tell ave1 http://ave1.org/2018/on-ffa-chapter-1/#comment-15
asciilifeform: !~later tell ave1 http://ave1.org/2018/on-ffa-chapter-1/#comment-15 ☟︎
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-29#1777911 << not at the moment. when my stack's popped to ffa will try to do my homework on one of the g5s ☝︎
asciilifeform: and when i say 'complete' i mean zero-libraries, a la ffa. kernel calls for i/o, and that's it.
asciilifeform: ( not to mention WBool, present in ch1, is constrained to arithmetize on 1bit. but indeed Word is smallest physical unit used, there is no byte-addressing in ffa )
asciilifeform: ave1: 'Word is the smallest unit used for the arithmetic in FFA' is not strictly true, there is a HalfWord ( see ch9 )
a111: Logged on 2018-01-29 15:46 ave1: I see you are already at ch9, I only just finished with ch1: http://ave1.org/2018/on-ffa-chapter-1/.
ave1: I see you are already at ch9, I only just finished with ch1: http://ave1.org/2018/on-ffa-chapter-1/. ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: why didja truncate to the ffa bitness ?
asciilifeform: and oh forfuckssake, apparently asciilifeform cannot change any of the '2017' to '2018' in ffa , because :
asciilifeform: fwiw ffa is endian-insensitive .
asciilifeform: ffa for instance is result of 'why not see what constant-time costs'
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-27#1777455 << great exercise, actually. type in each chapter's version of ffa ☝︎
mod6: lol, i've not "formally" started it. I have however, looked through most of 1, 2, 3, and 4. Did the homework for ffa_calc. But again, not enough to say "I've done it. Lemme sign."
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform for one will read his vtron. and ffa homework answers.
asciilifeform: douchebag: alternatively, ( or best of all, in conjunction ) read the ffa series and do the exercises.
asciilifeform: just like if a d00d managed to sneak in and steal it, it ain't 'exploit for ffa' . etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let's develop your picture. because it still isn't a complete one . because e.g. knowing the magicpacket for that particular box's nic, is not 'exploit for ffa', it is for $nic.
mod6: Honestly, I loved the homework for ffa_calc. That was awesome.
asciilifeform: the other fortunate bit, at least re ffa, is that it is not complicated from the ada pov
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: i dun particularly disagree with any of this, but the pov that 'vetting ffa' is a 1time thing, that can be done and then 'is done', imho is mistake : each user must read it ~himself~. << I basically just mean for me & ben.
asciilifeform: mod6: i dun particularly disagree with any of this, but the pov that 'vetting ffa' is a 1time thing, that can be done and then 'is done', imho is mistake : each user must read it ~himself~.
mod6: I'd like to see the Republic continue to expand the number of trb nodes we have available this year. There are activities currently afoot that immensly support that. Getting FFA vetted and used as a base lib really will help get the ball rolling for any proposed trbi.
mod6: Some of this is my fault, I've been trying to keep up here. Getting kinda swampped with a bunch of things at once. But! These are all good things. FFA, eucrypt, ada, vtron stuff, et. al.
asciilifeform: hey NoSatoshisHear -- you say you read the ffa series ? in what order of complexity does modular exponentiation run ?
NoSatoshisHear: ffa, some cool stuff, making a braindead c one just cause I can learn better. Sure wish I could pour some fast multiply hardware, but don't know enough prolly.
asciilifeform: what you can do, is either a) operate bitwise, ffa-style. b) mandate an endianism for the data format. and since you know the endianism of the machine you're building on, in particular build, you know whether the machine's is opposite or same as the data's.
mircea_popescu: but in practice, it turns out i get ffa and other things, because my friends love me even more than i love myself.
asciilifeform in the midst of fairly hefty conversion of '5000 log frags' to proper blogotronic text -- in re ffa . but ffa is in this respect substantially simpler item; it is not a mega-mystery how to do arithmetic.
mircea_popescu: we got fna, ffa and faff!
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-24#1774969 <-- nah, finished just this december and enrolled into ffa class just after. :D thus my earlier http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-12#1736817 derping ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: and ffs is more fundamental math than << ffa, obviously.
asciilifeform: ( ffa , yes, is made to work ~ on people ~ primarily )
mircea_popescu: you are a terrible classifier, you know that ? seriously, ffa, 3rd grade ? what next, telekinesis, preschool ?
asciilifeform: in that sense yea. ffa however is not frege, it is moar al-kwarizmus
asciilifeform: not in ffa either, lol
asciilifeform: i found it interesting to consider, why winblowz '0days' exciting to 19yo n00b, but e.g. ffa -- not
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 17:53 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774737 << btw, ty ben_vulpes for writing this article. After I get archive .zip delivery up and running I will be taking time to get my castle in order. This will include: 1) learning 'v' 2) get a working trb 3) testing my damn fgs already 4) ffa chapter 1 (at least)
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774737 << btw, ty ben_vulpes for writing this article. After I get archive .zip delivery up and running I will be taking time to get my castle in order. This will include: 1) learning 'v' 2) get a working trb 3) testing my damn fgs already 4) ffa chapter 1 (at least) ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: observe, e.g., in ffa.
asciilifeform: ffa makes it for the first time both doable and appealing imho.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 16:29 asciilifeform: !!rate diana_coman 3 industrial FG user; adatronicist; ffa reader
asciilifeform: phf: consider the practical diff b/w ffa-in-log-cum-pastes and the current series.
mircea_popescu: but yes, "ffa mostly exists to show you that no, you actually DO NOT have a leg there".
asciilifeform: ( again in re individual built item, e.g. ffa, rather than whole gnat )
asciilifeform: ftr potentially interesting, to n00bz, ffa thread, in http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema-mod6?d=2018-1-22#289427 today.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: loox like he appeared today, introduced as ffa reader.
caaddr: and my vpatch was trivial work, I just wanted to report it here to avoid other ffa pioneers having to duplicate trivialities
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773933 << you know alf, it occurs to me ffa actually attracted a lot more intelligent commentary than phuctor's results. fucking_unexpected.gif. ☝︎
asciilifeform: prolly right after ffa series is done.
ave1: Yes on restrict.adc plus it's the inline pragma that did not work for earlier FFA (adacore 2014).
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 16:04 ave1: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773970, it seems that gcc simply lags behind and a releases version will never be updated / fixed to newer adacore releases. AdaCore 2014 also cannot build FFA from the box
deedbot: asciilifeform rated diana_coman 3 << industrial FG user; adatronicist; ffa reader
asciilifeform: !!rate diana_coman 3 industrial FG user; adatronicist; ffa reader ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 14:18 deedbot: diana_coman rated caaddr 1 << ffa reader
ave1: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773970, it seems that gcc simply lags behind and a releases version will never be updated / fixed to newer adacore releases. AdaCore 2014 also cannot build FFA from the box ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ffa should not even be necessary, on sane iron
deedbot: diana_coman rated caaddr 1 << ffa reader ☟︎
diana_coman: !!rate caaddr 1 ffa reader
diana_coman: upload the patches there + discussion as to why and what; link to asciilifeform's ch1 ffa and you're done
diana_coman: I suppose asciilifeform will want to have a look at them perhaps ; I'm not sure though I see a point in changing ffa to fit whatever gnat4 wants though
diana_coman: wait, you created a vpatch for ..ffa?
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/06a-ffa-ch4-puzzle.html << The Tar Pit - A solution to the largest-of-seven FFACalc puzzle
mod6 is having some fun stepping through some ffa procedures
phf: i don't grok the first homework: do you mean produce random computations, and programmatically verify ffa against them?
asciilifeform: i.e. Product is only written to as result of the FZ_Mod call , http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch7_turbo_egyptians#L148 , which in turn , inside FZ_Mod, is a clean 1-shot, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch7_turbo_egyptians#L102 . QED.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-20 11:37 spyked: ftr, asciilifeform's ch4 seal (grabbed from http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig ) also seems to be binary (found it while double-checking my copies)
spyked: ftr, asciilifeform's ch4 seal (grabbed from http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig ) also seems to be binary (found it while double-checking my copies) ☟︎
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-19#1773176 <-- yikes! sorry phf, I fixed it (and double-checked, as I should have in the first place) --> http://lucian.mogosanu.ro/v/seals/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.spyked.sig ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-19 17:56 mircea_popescu: !~later tell spyked "Note that this article is not meant to replace the actual thing. If you want to understand FFA properly, go read FFA. And just so that we understand each other, that DeGrasse Tyson guy is an imbecile" << no links ? what did links ever do to you!
phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc/seal/spyked
mircea_popescu: !~later tell spyked "Note that this article is not meant to replace the actual thing. If you want to understand FFA properly, go read FFA. And just so that we understand each other, that DeGrasse Tyson guy is an imbecile" << no links ? what did links ever do to you! ☟︎
asciilifeform: he's been following ffa, doing the homeworkz
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051&cpage=1#comment-18804 << >> http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/06a-ffa-ch4-puzzle.html
asciilifeform: consider a translation of ffa to c
mircea_popescu: say it in the fucking comments of ffa, not here, at that.
asciilifeform: and i will say, ftr, that invocation of ANY ffa components on ANY overlapping segments, is an abuse. and there is not in fact any way to guarantee correctness , if such a thing is permissible.
asciilifeform: nuffin in ffa is an import, in classical v, or in asciilifeform's ideal v
mircea_popescu: note how ffa ends up satisfying the greenspun rule, through the predictable entry point.
asciilifeform: it's next on asciilifeform's conveyor after ffa. ( this should not discourage anybody else from writing adatronic lisps of whatever type, however )
asciilifeform: currently ffa has 0 pointerism.
asciilifeform: i have a similar item , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1657241 , it proved to be of very, very limited help for ffa , the constraint of the pc arch limits the use of fancy adders etc ☝︎
a111: 0 results for "from:fromloper ffa", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Afromloper%20ffa
asciilifeform: !#s from:fromloper ffa
asciilifeform: he's a very clever maths d00d. logs in every other week or so, nitpicks re fine points of ffa.
asciilifeform: for single-author, e.g. ffa, nothing really changes.
asciilifeform: ftr several different items in ffa seemed to me to be 'five-angled heptagons' (starting with how to compute the asm-less addition carries) until i solved'em