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mircea_popescu: wediditreddit ?
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2547 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 11: Tuning and Unified API.
asciilifeform: ^ the largest patch since genesis ( >80kB ) but unfortunately could not be avoided.
mircea_popescu: o hey. wb ffa.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf plox to eat ch11 into btcbase .
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838186 << 2016-03-23 may be the longest log I've read yet. these old logs are swamping me ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-29 16:12 mircea_popescu is actually quite curious if esthlos managed to do two days yest :D
mod6: asciilifeform: hey nice!
deedbot: http://blog.esthlos.com/log-reading-week-4/ << esthlos - Log Reading, Week 4
asciilifeform: !Q later tell esthlos in e.g. http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2016-03-28 you link to kako's log ; i recommend against this , it is not a faithful record of the actual text ( last yr he took to monkeying with it via perlism and possibly also manually ) ☟︎☟︎
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
phf: in fact particular line http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-28#1440677 has been changed in kako's log, hxxp://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2016#1440677 spot the difference! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-03-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: and so, this is the end for this particular irc channel as a venue for tmsr. the irc festivities are moving over to #trilema ; with a more selective lordship list and improved tools all around. you're welcome to join - but leave the fiat mind behind, lest it drag you too back down into the swamp.
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 10 hours and 49 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plox to eat ch11 into btcbase .
asciilifeform: aaha
asciilifeform: d00d moved on to the 'smear shit on the walls' stage of his disease a while ago.
asciilifeform: ( imho a peculiar hobby for a fella sitting on ~1k btc , but i've nfi )
phf: asciilifeform: updated
asciilifeform: phf: ty!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch11_tuning_and_api << for the l0gz.
asciilifeform: did i ever mention how phf's viewer makes patches a joy to reread !
asciilifeform: btw i oughta mention , i had to resort to a modified vdiff.sh : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rB9AD/?raw=true for ch11 , as the ada comment syntax causes inbandism barf with classic vdiff.sh when deleting or modifying the comment headers at the start of ffa modules
asciilifeform: ( instead of the old awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/ ... , uses awk 'm = /^(--- a\/|\+\+\+ b\/)/ ... )
asciilifeform: this has no effect on any extant vtron ( the resulting patches are correctly formatted ) .
asciilifeform: but folx attempting to reverse-grind ch11 with old vdiff.sh will inevitably see barf, and there is not currently any fix other than the above. ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( i'd hope that new vtron format will abolish all inbandism. )
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838315 << of course vtools sha branch vdiff produces correct output... ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 13:17 asciilifeform: but folx attempting to reverse-grind ch11 with old vdiff.sh will inevitably see barf, and there is not currently any fix other than the above.
asciilifeform: right, the inbandism is in the old vdiff layer, rather than unix diff proper
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838300 << ahahaha wut! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 12:47 asciilifeform: !Q later tell esthlos in e.g. http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2016-03-28 you link to kako's log ; i recommend against this , it is not a faithful record of the actual text ( last yr he took to monkeying with it via perlism and possibly also manually )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very old noose: e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-24#1775301 ( he replaces all mentions of #trilema with '#fraudsters', and of mircea_popescu with something or other, i fughet, and possibly other substs ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-24 18:13 RagnarDanneskjol: Fraudsters? Please clarify
asciilifeform: iirc started just about a yr ago.
diana_coman: hm, now the reading of octets from FG via EuCrypt randomly gets totally stuck and I can't even quite understand *where* ; wtf; I seem to recall someone else had some similar problem but I can't seem to find it atm; ave1 ? phf ? asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is immediately interesting and i'd like to replicate
asciilifeform: diana_coman: start by making sure you don't have multiple instances reading
diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, that suggests maybe one read remains somehow hanging? ugh
asciilifeform: diana_coman: is this using the code currently published in dianacoman.com ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, get eucrypt and run the tests for smg_rsa, something like ./tests 11 11 (i.e. 11 times test no 11) ☟︎
diana_coman: at times it gets stuck and not even in same place or anything
diana_coman: fwiw I have this on smg testing server, proto-cuntoo
diana_coman: so compiled with ave1 's gnat
asciilifeform: just how often is 'at times' ?
asciilifeform: i.e. does this reliably happen on both of your FG boxen ?
asciilifeform: and with either FG
diana_coman: so far it's been driving me crazy on that particular box, haven't had it/tried it somewhere else yet
asciilifeform: and strictly at warmup, or after reading 2-3 GB ?
diana_coman goes to read that code again maybe something is messed up there
diana_coman: ah, quickly, no need to read 2-3 GB really
diana_coman: thing is: it should not happen even once! wtf
asciilifeform: well noshit
asciilifeform: i suspect buggy tty init ( e.g. wrong baud ) , in which case the data returned is also rubbish
diana_coman: uhm, for one thing: it's init in c code as well so..uhm
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plz show me where you init
diana_coman: for the other, I had the FG init already
diana_coman: asciilifeform, smg_rsa/truerandom.c does the whole stuff really
asciilifeform will look there.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: is http://btcbase.org/patches/eucrypt_manifest/tree/ current ?
diana_coman: it should be, yes; as far as I can tell at a quick look at truerandom.c it is too
asciilifeform: diana_coman: see if you get same horror on the old, non-musl box
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ok, let me see
asciilifeform: this will give a starting clue.
asciilifeform: and , while you're at it, from the other FG in the musl box.
asciilifeform: gotta rule out the possibility of a dead FG.
asciilifeform: ( i have yet to witness this wonder. but there's always a first time. )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, fwiw I am trying to get it on my local box (non-musl) and so far it's working perfectly fine
diana_coman: will go and try 2nd fg and other boxes
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/eucrypt_manifest/tree/eucrypt/smg_rsa/truerandom.c#L84 << seems like you re-init the usb dongle every time you read. this is not recommended, i've encountered a chinese ttl plug that wedges if you init it one too many times
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ugh; it *can* be, because yes, it gets initialised many times
asciilifeform: ( possibly can blame linux pl2303 driver )
asciilifeform: generally you want to init it once, on coldboot.
asciilifeform: ( the exact pattern is in the nosuchlabs.com and printed manual )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I even have the .sh + set it in cron, yes; the thing is that code has no idea so it would logically set it up as it wants it but...
diana_coman: anyway, let's see: you suggest I take out the init, just open and read; set it up outside and then try; can't hurt giving it a try at least
BingoBoingo: diana_coman asciilifeform: We did recieve a pile of new USB ttl cables. Swapping the cables for fresh ones is a troubleshooting option.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: before you go to swap cabling, let's first see if the known sadness of pl2303 driver is the culprit.
diana_coman: yes, and at any rate if this can /will happen on various cables or simply at 100th setting
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i agree, this kind of thing is absolutely impermissible, and gotta get to the bottom of it.
asciilifeform: ( it is a 'wings fall off'-level problem )
asciilifeform: from my current reading of diana_coman's code, the only major diff b/w the official manual's test scenario, and diana_coman's, is the init thing.
asciilifeform: ( nobody's yet reported a wedged FG on the standard dd-powered test. )
diana_coman: well, 1st test: changed to 2nd FG on musl-system; checked and it reads fine with dd from console; ran the tests of eucrypt , it read 4 and then it got stuck
phf: diana_coman: haven't had problems with usb reads, i've struggled with getting octets across ffi boundary before, which is probably what you're remembering re my work
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can almost certainly rule out iron problem then
diana_coman: phf, ah, might be, thanks
diana_coman: asciilifeform, and on a second run it got stuck after doing 9 init+reads, ugh
asciilifeform: diana_coman: comment out the init, and fire a shot.
asciilifeform: btw you will probably want to make a timeout mechanism, to ring alarm if FG ever does die, rather than hanging
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I commented out the set_usb_attributes so basically it opens and calls fcntl to make it blocking but that's it; it took a bit longer to get stuck but it still did
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/eucrypt_manifest/tree/eucrypt/smg_rsa/truerandom.c#L65 << incidentally this is erroneous. a correctly-inited FG will never produce interrupt ( the tty ~must not~ interpret 0x03 as control char, it must return all octets verbatim )
asciilifeform: if tty ever produces interrupt, ipso facto FG init was not successful
diana_coman: right you are; not that it ever went there
asciilifeform: diana_coman: when these are stuck, how do you kill'em ?
diana_coman: ctrl-c..
asciilifeform: ahahaha
asciilifeform: i think we have the answer
asciilifeform: unix i/o is retarded, if blocking read blocks, it gives you a zombie process , and the next process you start that tried to read same tty, will also become zombie ☟︎☟︎
diana_coman: ugh
asciilifeform: to properly debug this item , you will sadly have to restart the box .
diana_coman: so uhm, just resetting the tty is not enough?
asciilifeform: nope
diana_coman: omfg resetting the test server each time
asciilifeform: well not each time, but to see if the 'init breaks the dongle' hypothesis is troo.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform did not write the linux i/o subsystem ; nor the pl2303 kernel mod ; and will readily admit that they are sad. and if anyone has idea for some other means to connect a 115200 baud box to machine, that does not suffer from the weakness of these, i'm as always all ears )
diana_coman: oook, let's see, waiting on reboot
asciilifeform: this being said, if you implement a timeout for the blocking reads, you will not have zombie problem.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it does sound like I'll have to
mircea_popescu: this is pretty lulzy.
asciilifeform: a FG that produces , under normal conditions, 0 output for, say, 30 seconds, is indicative of dead iron.
asciilifeform: and ought to ring all of the alarm bells.
mircea_popescu: in other news, phf hangs out in #fraudsters!
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: * Topic for #fraudsters is: The order of the day is to put an end to the machinations of the purveyors of injustice, to control them without dominating them.
mircea_popescu: * Topic for #fraudsters set by phf!~phf@unaffiliated/phf at Tue Jul 31 10:12:25 2018
asciilifeform: pretty great
mircea_popescu: apparently this just happened.
phf: :)
mircea_popescu: lel
asciilifeform: 'на каждую хитрую жопу, всегда найдется свой болт с резьбой'(tm)(r)(proverb) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: phf if i may be so bold, why "control" without "dominate" ? seems these be terms of art, what do they mean ?
asciilifeform: (~= 'for erry smart-arse, a threaded cock will be found' ) ☟︎
diana_coman: right, machine is freshly up;I'll first run the .sh script just in case and try it with dd
diana_coman: so, the set_usb_attributes was commented out; I cleaned everything and did a fresh build; ran the tests and... it read 3 octets and then it blocked
diana_coman: rather: it read 3 times (it was 4 octets each time )
diana_coman: basically if I don't manage to reproduce it on any other machine, it would seem it's potentially to do with that specific system
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: aren't i glad we tested all this.
phf: mircea_popescu: it's an adam wieshaupt quote, and i take its meaning to be in line with the stereotypes about his organization, control through influence rather than direct domination
phf: in this particular case though, it's a joke
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, well, it *does* answer that question: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827889 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 20:33 ben_vulpes: diana_coman: why does it need to be wholly separate machine? i think something might have flown over my head
phf: unfortunately the secret societ of illuminated fraudsters managed to stay secret all 5 minutes, before being publically exposed in the logs
mircea_popescu: phf my problem is this : on one hand i'm trying, in jules' words REALLY REALLY HARD, to not be the fatass in http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-30#938314 snuffing the life out of everything ; on the other i just can't manage to distinguish the proposed "x without y" from the broad scheme that ruined western civilisation, "have wife without beating her". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-11-30 06:31 mircea_popescu: like the stuff discussed above re usg agency redhat, fuycking up linux. EXACTLY the stiuation of the giant ruining a chair.
phf: mircea_popescu: well, we had conversations about esoteric societies in the past, and there's a reason for why the logs are public and everything that follows
diana_coman: ofc if dd never chokes, dunno, will look at how they do it
phf: mircea_popescu: to be honest i didn't read into it past the roleplaying humor, but upon immediate reflection, your objection makes equally obvious sense
phf: henceforth any attempts to expose the activities of the secret society of illuminated fraudsters shall be denounced as a ravings of delusional paranoids
mircea_popescu: lol
diana_coman: I honestly thought that was the main part of phf's joke there : the "control without dominate" in the spirit of modern times
mircea_popescu: to quote dr.a , i have no real sense of humour, it's software-emulated.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman do you recall that lulz btw ? "nu-i ardelean, n-are rabdare adevarata, ii emulata-n soft"
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I don't recall it but sounds apt (as dr. a does wherever I read him)
phf: diana_coman: we will take credit for it (also we'll take retroactive credit for the frequent mysterious reboots of asciilifeform's machines)
asciilifeform: lol
diana_coman takes a break from the usb reading wtf
mircea_popescu: rotate plug pi rad and try again!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman http://trilema.com/2010/o-institutie-culturala/#comment-21292 << found!
mircea_popescu: (the above, for the rotaku club, is a pinnacle of intertextual metatextuality the likes french culture barely ever managed, and anglonline never did.)
mircea_popescu: now i'm stuck re-reading all that... and esthlos thinks he has fucking problems. wait until you learn romanian, buster.
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> basically if I don't manage to reproduce it on any other machine, it would seem it's potentially to do with that specific system << Let me know if you want a pair of hands.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838388 << this. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 16:15 asciilifeform: unix i/o is retarded, if blocking read blocks, it gives you a zombie process , and the next process you start that tried to read same tty, will also become zombie
mircea_popescu: zombie is not just (as an inexistent, imaginary "manual" mentally reconstructed from the pile of gunk they published purports to hint) an entry in the table to permit the caller to clean up correctly. it is ALL SORTS of things, and generally of the getting in the way kind.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the astonishing bit isn't even that system5 unix had this nonsense, but that the linux derps faithfully re-created it.
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: in fact, the concept of "zombie" is perhaps the most indicated ear of stupid to shake the whole echafaudage by.
asciilifeform: somewhere near the top of the list, right below 'gotta check EVERY system call for failure erry time in user coad'
mircea_popescu: that's more of an absence, see. generally psychiatrists don't attempt to work with what the diseased mind fails to produce, but instead focus on the positive malfunctions, the productive sort. "tell me more about the little gremlins"
mircea_popescu: "zombies, really."
asciilifeform: if diseased mind fails to produce impulse to visit toilet instead of filling own pants, then yes, work with.
asciilifeform: unix represents not merely bed-pissing, but just about ~ideological~ pant-shitting mentality.
asciilifeform: 'i will shit, you will clean'
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, will do, thank you;
asciilifeform: 'and for extra sport, i will also shit where you cannot clean'
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, ahaha dadatroll; but now I see why it didn't even ring a bell at all as I probably missed the comments section there/didn't follow it
mircea_popescu: it stuck with me apparently.
diana_coman: I thought Dr A said that of you actually!
asciilifeform: btw if anyone wants to experimentally observe the zombie effect, can do it with ordinary gnu 'screen' -- when opened on a tty with blocking i/o, will routinely leave zombie turd instead of properly terminating, then hours later you find that tty is wedged, and discover 9 copies of 'screen' in process table.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's happened to me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: happened to me '9000' times when testing FG, and earlier iron.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: ( naturally the imbecile kernel doesn't actually test whether something is riding on the tty prior to opening, 'why would we' )
mircea_popescu: i'd settle for it just closing it.
asciilifeform: afaik to this day no such provision in any unixlike.
mircea_popescu: but imo this correct behaviour was elided specifically because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-27#1530346 reason, ie "our permission model is fucked, if we do a close-before-open it makes it too obvious" ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-27 15:03 mircea_popescu: "if i make it what i think it should be it crashes"
asciilifeform: recall , similarly, koch's 'fix' for his mpi bug.
asciilifeform: 'if i actually fix it, would have to admit that it was buggy'
asciilifeform: good % of unixland, by weight, consists of this.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, btw there was this: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833792 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-12 13:49 diana_coman: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo access to box & config confirmed; FG on ttysUSB0 had a wobble at first and I don't understand why: I ran the stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 115200 raw -echo -echoe -echok and then tried dd iflag=fullblock if=/dev/ttyUSB0 | hexdump -C but nothing came up; then I ran the stty on usb1 as well and tried again and it...worked; any idea wtf was that at first?
diana_coman: if anything, it would suggest that even dd can choke there
asciilifeform: suggests oddity in pl2303 mod
asciilifeform: diana_coman: does your boot-time sh init both dongles currently ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes
asciilifeform: interesting
diana_coman: at that time I did not yet have the boot-time sh init though; I suppose I can add this to test sheet
asciilifeform: btw also worth trying the item listed in 'Tip for Linux Users' at http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html .
asciilifeform: ( some usb2 hub chipsets behave dysfunctionally with pl2303 )
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/07/entire-police-department-quits-in-massachusetts/ << Qntra - Entire Police Department Quits In Massachusetts
asciilifeform: 'their poorly fitting bulletproof vests are beyond their expiration dates' << lolwat
BingoBoingo: The bigger wtf is what did they need a police force for? Place is clearly sized for a part time constable or two.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that tip says problems handling more than 2 but I have...2? ☟︎
diana_coman: at any rate, updates so far are relatively few: can't reproduce it on different machine (though I still have a few to test...); it IS easily reproduced even with dd on smg test server
diana_coman: basically as the "wobble" initially reported: if only one fg is set, then first read via dd hangs just the same
diana_coman: I would say it looks more and more like some issue with pl2303 mod
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, how long would it take to get there and unplug one of the FG to have a test with only one?
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, how long would it take to get there and unplug one of the FG to have a test with only one? << I could go there and be back witing an hour
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, wait a bit, at least to know if there is something else to try if you go there
diana_coman: as it is, it will have to wait until tomorrow anyway as atm I'm a bit at a loss wtf
BingoBoingo: Well, one other thing we can do is switch one or both usb ttl cables. As mentioned earlier one of the cables is the "blue" style that shipped with earlier FUCKGOATs http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833809 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-12 14:06 BingoBoingo: On this box one of the FG cables is the blue guy that came with my personal FG, the other is the new style black snake
diana_coman: hm, before switching cables I can switch order of init and see if there's any difference anyway
BingoBoingo: Aite
diana_coman: well, doing stty -F /dev/ttyUSB1 first so far (2 times, so machine rebooted in between...) at least had dd going well
diana_coman: hard to say if that is more than a glitch or not though
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, do you know whether smg main server has the black snake cables or what?
asciilifeform: i was about to suggest, to swap both cables , see if these can be ruled out
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838486 << i've only ever observed pl2303-specific headache when 3+ operating ( and even then , consisted of slow, rather than halted, signal ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 19:57 diana_coman: asciilifeform, that tip says problems handling more than 2 but I have...2?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'blue' is theoretically same chip, but from a diff chinese seller ( fwiw asciilifeform's desk FG operates from a 'blue' )
diana_coman: right, I'm anyway currently in need of a break and at a loss otherwise on this; so BingoBoingo at your leisure, please change the cables and leave only one FG plugged in for now; I'll get some sleep in first, so there's no hurry - anytime within next 10 hours works fine
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm gonna try and replicate here in the torture room, with your proggy -- i have both cable types here
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I doubt it's the cables really but can't hurt to rule that out
diana_coman: a bit of reading on this famous pl2303 does suggest all sorts of "hanging" issues but I haven't found anything clearly applicable so far
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ftr i am still on the lookout for anything like a practicable replacement for pl2303
diana_coman: and other than the weird fact that read simply blocks randomly, I don't know
asciilifeform: ( the 2 constraints -- 1) ~not ever ftdi~ 2) no flashable chips plox )
diana_coman: sadly I don't know of any replacement to suggest, no
diana_coman: also, the fact that dd *also* hangs at time there is a big red flag
asciilifeform: indeed
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, do you need me to shut down the box?
asciilifeform: the possible suspects , so far -- 1) ttl dongles 2) hub 3) musl userland , somehow
asciilifeform: ( kernel can be ruled out, both s.mg machines currently have afaik identical kernel )
asciilifeform: rather, ruled out as primary cause, could easily be the ultimate barf source in conjunction with 1 / 2
diana_coman: asciilifeform, on smg main server I ran only dd although I never had any problems nor wobbles nor anything with the fgs there
diana_coman: and I can't really reset that
asciilifeform: i'ma test on dulap also, it has identical fg/cabling setup to primary s.mg box
asciilifeform: diana_coman: is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838330 an exact description of the test ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 15:49 diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, get eucrypt and run the tests for smg_rsa, something like ./tests 11 11 (i.e. 11 times test no 11)
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that's literally what ended up as main test because convenient: it attempts to generate 11 "dirty float" random numbers using 4 random octets from fg; first number there is number of repetitions; second number chooses what test to run (if you run only ./tests 11 without 2nd number it will print the list of what it knows to do)
diana_coman: it ~always hung before finishing the 11 runs even
diana_coman: occasionally it needed a few more
asciilifeform: ok , should suffice for test, i'ma report tomorrow .
diana_coman: thanks, I'm off to sleep
asciilifeform: goodnight diana_coman
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, do you need me to shut down the box? << I will if you want me to pull it to swap cables.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, k, will shut it down
BingoBoingo: Will have it ready <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, do you know whether smg main server has the black snake cables or what? << It does.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Machine is ready, both cables swapped, but only one FUCKGOAT plugged in.
asciilifeform: lol BingoBoingo , it's still plural, sorta like 'scissors'
asciilifeform: ( tho perhaps, a FG with only 1 rng plugged in, could be a 'fuckgoat' )
asciilifeform: 1 scissor, 1 pant...
asciilifeform: in other noose, since 1st time i asked the q in 2013, appears that there is ~to this day~ not such a thing as a 1Ghz oscilloscope with any linux support whatsoever.
asciilifeform: not for 100 $, not for 100, not for 10,000.
asciilifeform: 1000. whichever.
asciilifeform: sorta hilarious , this, 'here's pc with very spiffy 6G/s pcie bus, for 100$, but if you want to connect something useful to that, haha, what do you think this is, the fyootoor'
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/#selection-549.0-553.4 ie, "consumer market"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: note, not in the i-dun-give-half-a-fuck-what-it-costs market, either
asciilifeform: not the 250k agilent either.
mircea_popescu: those don't use linux.
asciilifeform: ( these, for extra laughter, come with ~built in windows~ in the instrument itself ! )
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: so if you want a 1G/s scope with os where you actually have some control of the timing ( for e.g. real time phase sampling ) you're 100% phuqed.
asciilifeform wouldn't consider , say, 1btc , for a ~sane~ scope, to be unreasonable
asciilifeform: ( in this context, 'sane' ~= sits on pcie bus, and ADC turnaround is fixed # of bus cycles, preferably 1. and documented i/o. )
mircea_popescu: possibly firmware of one could be rewritten, liberating the item and saving you a coin
asciilifeform: doubtful, all of the examples i've been able to peek into, are full of xilinx.
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: and they ~all do shenanigans with multiple slow ADCs masquerading as 1 fast one
asciilifeform: i.e. are pressed shitboard , rather than hardwood.
mircea_popescu: yes wee
asciilifeform: i've turned up some hints that usg actually interferes with the ADC makers -- 'ohnoez, moscow could use fast ADC in radar set'
asciilifeform: they're actually named by name on usg 'export ban' list.
asciilifeform: ( how exactly this ties the hands of, e.g. , taiwanese fabs, i do not presume to know , but result is evident )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> lol BingoBoingo , it's still plural, sorta like 'scissors' << apologies