log
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mod6: evenin'
ben_vulpes: heya mod6
mod6: how goes!
mod6 is working on wrapping up all the things for V 99993
mod6: asciilifeform: ok it's done! http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HUSEX/?raw=true
mod6 also lulz @ HUSEX
shinohai: hue
mircea_popescu: why hello #trilema!
shinohai: o hai mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: how goes ?
shinohai: Buenas noches y feliz Viernes
shinohai: Good here, and you?
mircea_popescu: not bad!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman "took me twice as long" ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo www.qntra.net 404s, should prolly just redirect.
mod6: mircea_popescu!
mircea_popescu: hm ?
mod6: just sayin 'hi
mircea_popescu: hola
mircea_popescu: hm mod6 did i miss a payment or what happened here ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nah, let me take care of that. 0.8 it was?
mircea_popescu: yea
ben_vulpes: !!pay mircea_popescu 0.8
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/riedu/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun!
mircea_popescu: so BingoBoingo finally got his bank acct huh !
ben_vulpes: !!v FE62C1A6B3D703CEB2F058D90938A452801E95F7DCBC03825D763D80E3F7C9DA
deedbot: ben_vulpes paid mircea_popescu 0.8
mircea_popescu: ty ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: aha ty
ben_vulpes bbl, $child has announced bedtime by angrily tearing apart a couch to build a fort
shinohai: The plot thickens on Conbase drama: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWNCbmsWsAAtvXE.jpg
shinohai: "We were TOTALLY not responsible at all, keep sending us monies."
mod6: thanks ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: !!pay mod6 0.36578854
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IaMFY/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: !!v EC08ABA86FC893FD5A6FCC6FB66965D075BC3B7B00C8BBE155266D7DF4D34286
deedbot: ben_vulpes paid mod6 0.36578854
mod6: tyvm!
ben_vulpes: mmmmhm
mod6: this deedbot payment system is slick asf
mircea_popescu: word
asciilifeform: oh hey it's mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784178 << this is veeeery interesting and i'd like to know what iron☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 03:00 mod6: asciilifeform: ok it's done! http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HUSEX/?raw=true
asciilifeform: mod6: and it would stand to be repeated with the files swapped ( to remove effect of, e.g., just where the given sample lives on disk physically )
asciilifeform: mod6: fwiw i have found no consistent diff, to the 6th ( beyond that, the timer is useless ) on opteron
asciilifeform: *6th decimal
mod6: sure
mod6: how do you mean 'files swapped' ?
mod6: then hypothetically the timing values for ones and zeros should simply be reversed, no?
asciilifeform: mod6: well ideally somehow to swap the inodes. still thinking how one might arrange such a thing.
mod6: iron is intel core-i5
mod6: ooh.
asciilifeform: mod6: start however by moving the two for-loops around in your tester
mod6: ok.
asciilifeform: this prolly calls for a proper test with rdtsc. but i'm saving this for 'dessert'
asciilifeform: ( after errything else, that is, is done to death )
mod6: sure. i may want to re-run this entire thing anyway... i kinda dumbly ran this on my laptop.
asciilifeform: ideally would want also not merely 'all 0' and 'all 1' but rng, and then to plot time vs hammingweight, and look for correlation
mod6: i have this mule box that i strap workloads to (core2duo box) -- should be fine as long as CPU isn't saturated, and during this test, the lappy was only like at .7 load or w/e
asciilifeform: well if it's a multicore, naturally won't saturate, proggy is singlethreaded
mod6: oh right.
mod6: anyway, on the mule, i never did get adacore running properly. this lappy is the only box i got adacore '16 running on thus far.
asciilifeform: it's ok to build on one machine and run -- on other. static .
mod6: only problem is: results aren't apples to apples.
mod6: different hardware.
asciilifeform: this is also ok. just be sure to write down, which iron.
mod6: so would want baseline + deltas all on same env.
asciilifeform: mod6: i will share my current hypothesis : all current intels have MUL leakage
mod6: aha, was thinking that's what you were thinking.
asciilifeform: otoh i could also be observing noise.
mod6: statistical noise, might be.
mircea_popescu: what is the expected gain here ?
asciilifeform: but yes this calls for a proper test, with rdtsc, then buncha MUL, then rdtsc again
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to find which chips one is condemned to use egyptian innerloop MUL-substitute on.
asciilifeform: currently the 2 known inhabitants of this list are ppc and arm7
mircea_popescu: how much is that worth ?
asciilifeform: well it's worth the diff b/w actual constanttime and... not
asciilifeform: i.e. leaking key.
mircea_popescu: if you find now as opposed to whenever someone runs it, this differential is worth the difference between what and what ?
asciilifeform: it is not in fact essential to find the answer ~now~.
asciilifeform: i'm putting in both variants of mul, selectably.
mircea_popescu: so what's this all about ?
asciilifeform: mod6 tried his hand at 'tester of whether ffa really does constanttime modexp'; asciilifeform comments on 1 set of output. is all.
asciilifeform: not earth-shaking experiment, no.
mircea_popescu: so his spending his time making less than minimum wage for it is basically his choice, you're just talking into the internet box ? is that the logic ?
asciilifeform: sorta like asciilifeform's spending time making no sort of wage, writing the proggy to begin with , neh
mircea_popescu: kinda, yeh.
asciilifeform: i do not order mod6 , 'go and make such a test', no.
asciilifeform: nor he -- i, 'go and...'
mircea_popescu: what's that do ?
mod6: yeah, no. it's fine. i was happy to build/run. to me this is all very exciting/important stuff. back when alf was doing the karatsuba and other things in the late summer/fall, this type of thing started to be contimplated for innerloop substitute.
mircea_popescu: mod6 you are talking to a man who spent his time dicking about and as a result is getting delorded.
mod6: i think we may need some good data collected to come up with a list of arch's that leak
mircea_popescu: if you copy his style of "work", you'll be doing yourself a significant disservice.
mod6: mircea_popescu: well, never the less, I'm still very much behind the utility of ffa
mircea_popescu: yes, but meanwhile you're engaged with bbisp, which costs $$$ each month.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: negrate, whatchawaiting for ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform separate items.
mod6: mircea_popescu: well, sure. I have a lot of things going on tho lol.
mircea_popescu: you're just inept, not dishonest.
mod6: I get your meaning though.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yes but if you don't sort them by time-productivity you'll end up in the soup.
asciilifeform: it's entirely fine afaik to negrate honest people
asciilifeform: e.g. -10 i hate his face
mircea_popescu: not how i go about it.
asciilifeform: oh while mircea_popescu is tuned in: bisp ( of which asciilifeform is 50% in ) awaits instructions re disposition of the 3 mircea_popescu boxen
mircea_popescu: iirc a) they were nsa boxes and b) the problem there was transportation, after you managed to get them locked out of the phf flight that ended up not happening
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: transport has been arranged. what remains is 1) mircea_popescu wants'em in ? if so, how many (1,2,3?) 2) what type of disks he wants in #2 and #3 ( also remains option to outfit with disks at later time, after installation )
mircea_popescu: that doesn't say much. what exactly has been arranged, where ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is making a delivery run : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783930☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 17:48 ben_vulpes: i have one 1U slot open in my next courier run to .uy, if anyone wants their machine couriered down speak NOW or i'm going to fill it with a box of my choice
asciilifeform: i will let him speak re exact time.
mircea_popescu: so how many of 1, 2 or 3 do i want to fit in a 1u slot ?
asciilifeform: well if 1, it's a 1u subscription, if 2 -- 2u, so forth
mircea_popescu: anyway. it's unclear to me these are even dc worthy in any sense.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu wants them at his house to use as boat anchor -- oughta specify this. they dun do much good here on desk.
mircea_popescu: much like errything else.
ben_vulpes: what's so not-dc-worthy about 'em?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: apparently , that asciilifeform touched'em
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is apparently determined to maliciously run s.nsa into the ground, and pin the corpse on asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: and yes, asciilifeform -- not quite ~yet~ stripped of his stars and epaulettes -- wishes to put this matter before the forum.
asciilifeform: supposing we are still carrying on with a pretense of a forum, and a lordship.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the situation is that s.nsa naively bought some iron at your recommendation at some prior point. meanwhile you refused to deliver the "here's the mega-article comparing all hardware, which will guide future republican hardware building.
mircea_popescu: and seeing how you're the fellow who asks me how many items do i want to fit in ben_vulpes 's one item slot, i have serious doubts about your cogency anyway.
mircea_popescu: so for now, waiting to see what bbisp decides to do re hardware, and vageuly considering getting out-of-house expertise.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i have nfi. could take too much power, could whatever the fuck.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes in point of fact allocated 2 slots for s.nsa . and was asking re whether 3rd ought to also go to it, or to another.
mircea_popescu: we still don't have a proper item on which to base hardware strategy.
mircea_popescu: and i wouldn't trust asciilifeform to write it now, in any case.
asciilifeform: and the measured draw is 150W . ( as descibed in detail in the past. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu you are not a party to bisp.
mircea_popescu: i still intend to follow their standards.
asciilifeform: a customer (possibly ! not yet subscribed) -- yes
mircea_popescu: what's "being a party" has to do with anything ?
asciilifeform: asciilifeform sets the iron standards.
mircea_popescu: nope.
asciilifeform: aaaactually.
mircea_popescu: in no case do you set any standards.
mircea_popescu: that train left.
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu , having sold his stake, and not even yet a subscriber, wishes to decree re what is done at bisp.
mircea_popescu: i guess, perhaps, the standard for time frittering. but that's well set already, so.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, dja have some sort of decision yet ben_vulpes / mod6 ? are you goint to offer box rentals ? what kind ?
asciilifeform: it so happens that asciilifeform has purchased a 50% stake in bisp. and specifically with one condition: that mircea_popescu (named, concretely) will not be a back-seat driver there.
mod6: mircea_popescu: that is being discussed, yes.
mircea_popescu: well, that was pretty dumb on their part, i guess, but whatever, experience is apparently difficult to process.
ben_vulpes: will be renting boxes out, this first courier run is filling up with space-rental.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ok, but which are you buying ? or what's teh strategy exactly ?
ben_vulpes: i want the next run to have one box with lots of ram and cpu to start selling vps and shared hosting in earnest, and another 2 of smaller boxes that can be rented out entire in the $3-400/mo range.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the problem with "lots of x" is that...
mircea_popescu: so basically is the idea that you'll just do whatever and we're missing this opportunity to attempt an' standardize iron ?
ben_vulpes: standardize on number of cores or processor type?
mircea_popescu: well... you know how we've been trying to go "here, use THIS gentoo" for a while (to maybe some results so far) ? \
ben_vulpes: if i say "all boxes getting racked will have 32 cores" that's a huge minimum buy that i don't know that l2 can really eat many of.
mircea_popescu: "my computer dun werk" should have a "use this config" ready response.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes setting a standard doesn't mean anyone's ~forced~ to follow it.
trinque doesn't recall that anybody but danielpbarron used his standard musl gentoo.
trinque: pretty fucking annoying, that, actually.
mircea_popescu: trinque iirc hanbot got it on a few boxes.
trinque: I think shinohai snowflaked himself up his own recently
trinque: mircea_popescu: cool
mircea_popescu: anyway, the idea here is that it'd be ~nice~ if we had a complete list of these responses. "my x dun werk" "use y".
mircea_popescu: be it os, kernel, gcc, whatever. so ideally there'd be a "this is the correct processor/ram/disk/motherboard" etc.
mircea_popescu: in the vein computers attempted to "ibm compat", except chosen by us not by ibm.
mircea_popescu: but getting back to the previous lulz, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784318 is remarkably nutty. so you liquidate my bonds at an (avoidable) cost of .8, in exchange for a 50% equity position and... what commitment exactly ? if for instance you need money next month, what do you do ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:55 asciilifeform: it so happens that asciilifeform has purchased a 50% stake in bisp. and specifically with one condition: that mircea_popescu (named, concretely) will not be a back-seat driver there.
asciilifeform: wait is this a q for asciilifeform ? or for mod6 & ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: the latter.
ben_vulpes: we've made commitments to each other; if those are reneged upon the whole world goes up in a bonfire of negrating.
mircea_popescu: well, can't say i follow teh business logic, but hey.
mircea_popescu: anyway. as he points out, not really much skin off my back either way. but consider that on one hand you're not exactly private investors there, seeing how fwiu you've involved the foundation's capital actually ? so you're stuck to some measure of public dealing an' tranparency as'd befit such a lofty entity in its first actual commitment ? and on the other hand, bbisp kinda depends on good public perception.
ben_vulpes: quite!
ben_vulpes: mod6, jurov: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/t2Tvo/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: well anyway. i'm guessing ima read it in the monthlies or w/e.
mod6: Yes.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: do you plan to rent boxes when we get them racked, or possibly colocate?
mircea_popescu: well, in all honesty after the bizarro revelations i'm mostly waiting for said discussion, of what you intend to do etc.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784318 << ah damn, sir. Why are you playing with knives here. It was obvious a long time ago that mircea_popescu just wanted you to submit. You can't block the king from intervening in lordly affairs in his own kingdom.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:55 asciilifeform: it so happens that asciilifeform has purchased a 50% stake in bisp. and specifically with one condition: that mircea_popescu (named, concretely) will not be a back-seat driver there.
lobbes: Normally I wouldn't say anything (not really my bznz) but I have a vested interest in asciilifeform existing (I learn a lot from the guy and he has done important work, what)
asciilifeform: lobbes: you also want to get drummed out?
lobbes: drummed out?
asciilifeform: y'know, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784267 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784295 etc☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:31 mircea_popescu: mod6 you are talking to a man who spent his time dicking about and as a result is getting delorded.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is apparently determined to maliciously run s.nsa into the ground, and pin the corpse on asciilifeform .
lobbes: listen, titles are meaningless. What matters is a) resources (of which mp always had) and b) ability to be a true "enzyme" for smart folx (mp again)
asciilifeform: lobbes: as for 'submitting', apparently it's trickier than it'd appear, i 'submitted' to the fuhrer for , what, 4yrs, and still thrown out in the end like used napkin
asciilifeform: there comes a time, lobbes , when enzyme uncurls, stops enzyming.
mircea_popescu: in other news my grapefruit, natural etcetera mouthwash now has a "gluten free" sticker added.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck thinks up this shit.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: see also http://cascadianhacker.com/the-american-consumer-in-two-photos
mircea_popescu: i think it's actually russian.
mircea_popescu: a, bulgarian.
mircea_popescu: lobbes i dunno that submission has anything to do with anything, tbh. the principal issue is that he fucked up, again, in the same way, and is sticking to this nopenopenopenope line.
asciilifeform: also goddammit why so slow, mircea_popescu , i'm waiting for the 'de-lording' bullet, staying up past bedtime
mircea_popescu: eh, go to bed, what's the hurry.
asciilifeform: can you picture stalin 'eh go to bed, what's the hurry' lol
mircea_popescu: what, there's no life after lordship ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: didntcha say you weren't going to go on tilt?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i like to see folx finish what they start, eh
mircea_popescu: all in all a pretty weird day.
asciilifeform: at any rate i'ma to bed. and if mircea_popescu wants to subscribe a slot (or moar) in bisp, oughta say; and his biznis is appreciated; if not -- other potential subscribers invited to solicit for ben_vulpes's courier service.
asciilifeform: and while i have the microphone, will say : i'ma carry on exactly same work after properly proclaimed heretic and excommunicated by mircea_popescu , as prior.
asciilifeform: 'act from causes' etc.
mircea_popescu: this is probably the problem.
mircea_popescu: aaanyway. this whole "potential subscribers" is easily enough said, but you've apparently created quite a credit crunch for the item. because "well, let's send bbisp a box" "what if they go under ?" "i guess we underwrite some bonds" "but they DONT WANT your bonds!" "um..."
ben_vulpes: this is the "potential customer" underwriting bonds?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do you still own the corvette ?
ben_vulpes: or somehow if the bonds are not from mircea_popescu they are not wanted
ben_vulpes: yes, why?
ben_vulpes astonished mircea_popescu remembered the brand this time
mircea_popescu: ok. suppose you wish to travel for two weeks, and leave it in parking-storage.
mircea_popescu: does it matter to you how well capitalised the parker-storager is ?
ben_vulpes: yeah sure, but it'd be a foolhardy operator indeed who expected customers to underwrite bonds
mircea_popescu: you think ?
mircea_popescu: because it's somewhat common. your potential customer is necessarily underwriting your counterparty risk. you have unclear capital structure and unpublished "commitments to each other" ; neither of these is of the nature of reducing the cost of that counterparty risk.
mircea_popescu: this in general, leaving aside the apparent situation whereby in my particular case your bonds are actually ~worthless, so it's not even clear how it'd solute your risk at all.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo www.qntra.net 404s, should prolly just redirect. << Thank you, fixed
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> so BingoBoingo finally got his bank acct huh ! << The speed here...
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784334 <<< This I did, have been running my trb node this way for some time. I do plan on trying your musl recipe, I just needed working os on my daily driver and had to go with what I know at this time.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 05:03 trinque: I think shinohai snowflaked himself up his own recently
shinohai: Also, buenas dias BingoBoingo ... como te vas?
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Bien y vos?
shinohai: Aqui todo bien, tomando un cafecito y revisando los logs.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784369 << gotta say, the man wants an ISP from causes, and asked you for a specific item also from causes.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 05:57 asciilifeform: also goddammit why so slow, mircea_popescu , i'm waiting for the 'de-lording' bullet, staying up past bedtime
trinque: as for submission, in my house truth is the thing submitted to, and it so happens that most of the time I hold it.
trinque: oughta always go along with the guy who is right, and not the man who's named X.
trinque: if you thought it was unneeded or harmful to compile a list of hardware (not just that you have, but that could be desirable) for bisp, that'd be one thing, and the proper move is to respond with that
trinque: otherwise I'd say the guy who spent the most time writing an OS is probably the guy to assess hardware.
trinque: and if this is resisted for what appear to be psychological reasons, the fury is well spent.
shinohai: ah gm trinque!
trinque: good morning shinohai
trinque ftr likes asciilifeform very much, but that's his assessment of the sticky thing
trinque: men gotta be compelled by the truth, and men holding same are wasting their life if they don't use truth to compel
trinque afk til afternoon
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784187 <- fixed, thank you☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 03:18 mircea_popescu: diana_coman "took me twice as long" ?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784318 <- o.O ; I hope bbisp makes public soon some clear strategy and reports☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:55 asciilifeform: it so happens that asciilifeform has purchased a 50% stake in bisp. and specifically with one condition: that mircea_popescu (named, concretely) will not be a back-seat driver there.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: The new management is working out the details for their clean takeover of the remains of BBISP as a new venture. I defer the revelation of details to management.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, cool
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784373 >> part and parcel of the problem of people on tilt is that they are quite convinced they're not. asciilifeform : you are digging yourself ever-deeper into a hole for the sake of your having missed your own deadline. you're of course welcome to ignore me and everyone else --trying to help you out-- (esp. trinque's imo excellent "assessment" this morning), thereby joining the ranks of those who wouldn't li☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 05:59 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: didntcha say you weren't going to go on tilt?
hanbot: sten. it's not a pretty place, and i have no idea why you'd want to live there.
hanbot: meanwhile, mod6 and ben_vulpes : why are the "discussions" etc re bbisp not in the logs? is there some benefit in their being private, contrary to umpteen years of the benefits of public discussion in said logs?
asciilifeform: hanbot: is your interest in bisp as a potential subscriber ? or as backseat driver.
asciilifeform: hanbot: understand that one of the things i ~like~ about mp, is that he doesn't slide back on things. so hole or no hole , it is what it is.
asciilifeform: with this in mind : ben_vulpes + mod6 : when you reimburse me this week please do not make use of trinque's walletron. trinque is quite dear to me but it is my current understanding that my trinquewallet will cease to function when i am formally anathemized , and i do not want any coin to become trapped in it.
asciilifeform: hanbot: i do not enjoy to overstay my welcome where not wanted. mp and you invited me in 2013 to the party, can just as rightfully uninvite .
trinque: asciilifeform: incorrect
asciilifeform: hm?
trinque: the thing works here, in pm, w/e
trinque: there is no stripping-of-wallet implemented
asciilifeform: and suppose mp specifically orders trinque to modify it.
asciilifeform: what will trinque do ?
trinque: I am not tarnishing my reputation by the wallet operating as anything other than a mechanism.
asciilifeform: ready to be anathemized with asciilifeform , trinque ?
trinque: I recall one time I got pissy and tripled down on political strife over nothing.
trinque: don't want to repeat past mistakes
trinque: hopefully you and mircea_popescu can resolve this one
asciilifeform: y'know how it goes, 'Okay, here we go: Das war ein Befehl! Der Steiner-Angriff war ein Befehl! Wer sind Sie eigentlich, dass Sie einen Befehl, den ich gebe, zu missachten wagen?!!'
asciilifeform: grr pastefael, 'Das war ein Befehl! Der Steiner-Angriff war ein Befehl! Wer sind Sie eigentlich, dass Sie einen Befehl, den ich gebe, zu missachten wagen?!!'
mod6 reads
asciilifeform: trinque: i enjoyed having mp as a coauthor, making phuctor, FG, various other pieces. but i cannot give the man what he wants, at the rate at which he wants it, this is unfortunate but fact.
trinque: doubtful he fails in his modeling of you. maybe you fail interpreting his requests
trinque: I don't know, don't like to speak for people either.
asciilifeform: if you ask the d00d, i fail at moar or less errything, lol
mod6: <+hanbot> meanwhile, mod6 and ben_vulpes : why are the "discussions" etc re bbisp not in the logs? is there some benefit in their being private, contrary to umpteen years of the benefits of public discussion in said logs? << Hi hanbot. Let me try to answer here.
asciilifeform: and as you know 'customer always right'
trinque: doubtful that also, or wouldn't be asked of so much.
asciilifeform: don't feel sad, trinque , remember that http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570104 http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570105 .☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:41 mircea_popescu: nah, there's the retiring kind and the executed kind of admiral.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:41 mircea_popescu: he's the executed kind.
mod6: Upon the failure of bbisp, and Mr. Popescu's leaving TMSR, The Bitcoin Foundation, in a last-ditch effort to save the ISventure and the Republic (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783471), has chosen to try to determine how / if it can do this without any outside interference.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 06:48 hanbot: speaking of that wednesday, it's rather incredible how little discussion there is on the matter, especially considering http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-10#1783160
mod6: The thought here was that the ISP venture was too much trouble for Mr. P. to be bothrered with, so we thought we'd do actually what he would have wanted: Stepped up to run it ourselves. The Bitcoin Foundation has taken many lumps over the years for not having spent any of the endowment bestowed upon it. We thought this is the perfect opportunity to show that we can be effective.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, at the same time, took it upon himself to go and repair the item mp has proclaimed that he had broken, at own labour and (considerable) expense.
mod6: We don't have all of the details sorted out as of yet -- and keep in mind it has been TWO DAYS, since we even contemplated this. TWO DAYS.
mod6: So, we're working on it. And I am seriously discouraged by the line of commentary in here, as opposed to support.
trinque: don't speak in generalities, address people
trinque thinks this is a fine thing
mod6: Are you speaking to me, trinque?
trinque: I am.
asciilifeform: trinque: might you be interested in becoming the first subscriber ?
trinque has spoken to ben_vulpes about having a box on the first provisioning run
ben_vulpes: trinque: do you still want that slot?
mod6: Our plan is to publish what are plan is, we're working on that literally, right now.
mod6: *our
trinque: ben_vulpes: sure do
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo has even prepared ( not quite yet unveiled however ) a public www ; with prices and other useful info.
ben_vulpes: great. here's my address http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/couvJ/?raw=true when can you get the box to me?
mod6: Anyways, carrying on here, we are working on a plan. We ask for your patience, and support.
trinque: ben_vulpes: I can comform my shopping to your schedule. When does it need to arrive?
ben_vulpes: feb 28th, please
ben_vulpes: if that's not enough time, please to speak up asap
trinque: works fine
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu i would like http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552625 << these -- back plox.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 14:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in other news i registered #loper-os and #asciilifeform defensively ; whenever you feel like building them up say and i'll pass them along.
mod6: On a personal note, regarding "patience and support", I want to let it be known that it will be very hard if not impossible to make the ISP venture a success without the support of specficially, mircea_popescu, hanbot, diana_coman - and ``Minigame''. We need your business here.
lobbes: Not just ISP venture, but Republic as a whole. A mind with experience like mircea_popescu's comes along very infrequently. I.e. "resources" in my earlier comment refer to moar than just capital >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784360☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 05:51 lobbes: listen, titles are meaningless. What matters is a) resources (of which mp always had) and b) ability to be a true "enzyme" for smart folx (mp again)
shinohai: Thank you mod6, ben_vulpes, et all for all your hard work and support.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784451 <- I fail to quite follow this reading of events tbh; and in any case "running it ourselves" does not mean nor does it have to be "in isolation"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:17 mod6: The thought here was that the ISP venture was too much trouble for Mr. P. to be bothrered with, so we thought we'd do actually what he would have wanted: Stepped up to run it ourselves. The Bitcoin Foundation has taken many lumps over the years for not having spent any of the endowment bestowed upon it. We thought this is the perfect opportunity to show that we can be effective.
mod6: If the notion, ``there is no future for the republic without an isp'' (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783471) holds true, and mircea_popescu, hanbot, and diana_coman wish to see the Republic continue, we should all be putting aside differences to further the Republic.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 06:48 hanbot: speaking of that wednesday, it's rather incredible how little discussion there is on the matter, especially considering http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-10#1783160
asciilifeform: lobbes: i have enough respect for mircea_popescu to respect his decisions; when he does not want to coauthor with somebody, there is no reason why he oughta have to. and so when he asks for asciilifeform's resignation as snsa cto, i will give it to him.
diana_coman: as lobbes points out there are valuable resources in the forum, even if now reduced; not using them looks weird let's say
mod6: diana_coman: All of this is in the logs, and on trilema "Don't have time to be a mommy", et. al.
diana_coman: mod6, yes, mommy is one thing but not the only thing
asciilifeform: diana_coman: a painfully pedantic description of the new isp will be published. and available for commentary.
diana_coman will read
lobbes: asciilifeform: did he ask, though? Your work doesn't need to -end- just because delorded, or excluded from specific flight etc
lobbes: can regain again, what! You contribute a lot, that does not evaporate
lobbes: diana_coman has it I think; why "split" resources when moar brains = stronger republic
diana_coman: fwiw mod6 how do you then square "could not be bothered with" with -> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-11#1783243 ;it's one thing to say "I don't want to hold your hand" and another thing to say "I don't want to have anything to do with you"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-11 13:57 mircea_popescu: alternatively, i have no problem taking say 1.5 worth of absolutely senior convertible equity in your continuant venture, however you call it.
asciilifeform: lobbes: my work will continue to be published in the familiar place where it was published previously. not very hard to find. and folx who wish to discuss it, will be able to do so in my 'castle' ( #loper-os if mp amicably un-squats the fleanode login; otherwise a new one, to-be-announced )
shinohai: I admit to have suffered dejection in past couple of days which had me questioning the future of Republic, but honestly, what else is there?
mod6: diana_coman: I don't see how a new venture is better off saddled with debt to it's former master. It was to be successful, it needs a fresh start.
asciilifeform: shinohai: one strength of the republic is that it will continue to exist even if there is only 1 d00d left, even in a burning tank where only the gun still worx.
asciilifeform: while it worx -- it exists.
trinque: I don't see that at all
trinque: republic's a social mechanism. kid with his toys by himself is not a republic
lobbes: ^^
shinohai: Perhaps a micronation
trinque: ?
lobbes: without the ideology to teach future generations, what good are the tools
lobbes: they will die with last man
lobbes: as no one will understand how to use; "hammer in nails with mircoscope"-ism
asciilifeform: lobbes: but do they ? the old serene republic, of venice, died to a man. and here we are, picking up the weapons
lobbes: perhaps, but why not delay the death part of the death-rebirth cycle
trinque: gotta say this dick-pulling soup, sharing of our feelings, and etc., is tiresome.
mod6: trinque: would you like to take over my spot as Co-Chairman to the Bitcoin Foundation?
trinque: asciilifeform got thonked on his head because he has emotional walls which repel certain categories of correction
trinque: mod6: eh? why?
diana_coman: mod6, a stake in something is never "debt only" really the way I see it; honestly, would you offer to take an "iou" while at the same time being totally unwilling to even give advice if asked?
mod6: Debt, is debt diana_coman. Nothing more.
mod6: Debt is not an investment.
asciilifeform: trinque: the flavour of 'emo' is unfortunate, but i for instance have an oath to mp that i have not been released from. and is the only reason i am still tuned in. the disposition of snsa after asciilifeform's pending anathemization , is a strictly practical matter, rather than 'pulled dick' thread.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, the only way I can follow that is as purely ideal "republic as a notion" etc. perhaps true but not particularly... effective let's say
trinque: so reform. take your texan short fuse and lengthen, or what, wrong file, sorry.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i cannot offer anything with which to disagree.
mod6: trinque: I think you'd be a suitable replacement for me.
trinque: I don't think now's the time for that. lest rustled jimmies, not more.
trinque: *less
asciilifeform: trinque: to crib of mod6's idea earlier, you could additionally (or alternatively) buy my share of isp.
diana_coman: mod6, uhm, did I say it was an investment? equity in something is however still some stake in it or do you consider it's not?
asciilifeform: ( then possibly mp&friends would be more interested in a subscription..)
trinque: holy shit, the sudden influx of offers
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: One thing I've learned people watching here... It turns out boys are the shy gender.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, ahahah; ftr though that is ...true from all my experience as it is, yes
trinque: asciilifeform: see how I told you one thing, and you tried to misdirect me with another? or no?
trinque: how do you rub the dog's nose in the shit?
asciilifeform: trinque: i must confess that -- nope
mod6: <+trinque> I don't think now's the time for that. lest rustled jimmies, not more. << Ok, well let me know if you want to. I'm ready to step down and take my leave of all of this.
trinque: asciilifeform: so then read the last 10-15 lines and try to see what trinque's gesturing at
mod6: diana_coman, hanbot, same offer stands to you as well.
diana_coman: mod6, don't take this the wrong way
ben_vulpes: mod6: i've said it before and i'll say it again, your calm under fire is invaluable and i'd be much obliged if you'd stick around.
diana_coman: I for one will certainly wait patiently for the bbisp communications when they come
mod6: I'll repeat myself: If you want a republic to exist, and you believe the foundation to be a good thing, support us. I've given seven years. Maybe it's time for someone who knows better than ole mod6.
mod6: But I'll not sit by and watch a bunch of in-fighting embarrass all the hardwork and effort we've put in. I'd rather burn out, than fade away.
mod6: This is the moment when you affirm your support, or you do not, and throw your hat in the ring to take the reigns from mod6.
diana_coman: mod6 I support tmsr isp but atm I am at a loss as to what it is and how to actually support it
diana_coman: hence as I said earlier: I'll be waiting patiently for its communications
asciilifeform: indeed it would be strange for anyone to subscribe, without knowing what is offered, for howmuch.
mod6: Stand-by, we're trying to get that communicaiton out now. I'm reading the things.
lobbes: Dick-pulling aside, it seems there is Schism 2.0 happening (which I think is fucking retarded but okay). Are there going to be two republics now or wat? This goes beyond a mere ISP, hence hard to enumerate the future.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784295 << I still think that this assumption, which you seem to be basing your current actions on, is a flawed assumption. But whatever, I'll still tune in to (and try to assist with, if assistance wanted) whatever asciilifeform (and ben_vuples mod6 and co.) produce. A split republic is still better than none as far as my individual fitness is concerned. Just... dumb.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is apparently determined to maliciously run s.nsa into the ground, and pin the corpse on asciilifeform .
trinque: lobbes: cool it
trinque: this thing doesn't need any more chatter; let the parties working work, and see what comes of it.
lobbes: right. right. bah okay. I got work to do on my archive-related shit anyway
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, ahahah; ftr though that is ...true from all my experience as it is, yes << Living in the hostel, you observe this a lot.
BingoBoingo: Pretty girls and women change in the multi bed mixed gender rooms. Boys and fat chicks change in the bathrooms.
ben_vulpes: attn all, here's a draft of the new articles of organization for what was BISP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/A5yUZ/?raw=true excoriate away
mod6: Thanks ben_vulpes!
ben_vulpes: i would also like to deposit these funds with a non-involved individual to seal in blood the capitalization of this entity
asciilifeform: ^
ben_vulpes to waltz around in the sun for a few minutes, will digest comments async
asciilifeform: i'ma play in the snow, ben_vulpes , also bbl.
ben_vulpes: wow christ, many apologies.