ben_vulpes: i gotta step away for a spell but will come back and address
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6 , mircea_popescu , et al : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/piz_tab.html << corrections of central column or other init params, welcome
asciilifeform: ( and yes i converted FG price to usd, to match the units of the other params )
asciilifeform: the param 'target' and the params in leftmost and center columns, are editable, will trigger recalc of equation
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: feel free to copy this item onto piz www if you think it merits.
mircea_popescu: seems broken in here lessee...
asciilifeform: it needs js wwwbrowser
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, https://archive.is/LAZOH << so you need 144, got 4 and need 29 more ?
asciilifeform: noooo
asciilifeform: 144 is price in usd
mircea_popescu: o i c.
asciilifeform: (144.444...)
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: derived from ben_vulpes table
mircea_popescu: so basically this is the recurring revenue table ?
asciilifeform: correct
asciilifeform: prolly i made a numeric mistake somewhere, will let ben_vulpes confirm
asciilifeform: but it seems to match his outputs in the degenerate cases.
asciilifeform: ( if one sets middle col to all 0 )
mircea_popescu: well, eg the s.mg box, like your largest income driver, isn't in there ?
asciilifeform: it is, under 4 colo + 4 FG
mircea_popescu: why 4 ?
asciilifeform: i counted 4 colo people in ben_vulpes first table
mircea_popescu: box only has 2 fgs ; 1 colo spot ; box rental itself is the rest.
mircea_popescu: then there's the s.nsa box which is just 1 colo
asciilifeform: i mean, total # of colo subscribers existing presently
mircea_popescu: you have more than 2 ?
asciilifeform: s.mg, s.nsa, mod6, trinque
mircea_popescu: o wow really ? nice!
asciilifeform: again i will let ben_vulpes confirm the accuracy of my count.
mircea_popescu: then the 1.1k figure can't be right. 4 x 140 + how many fgs are rented out, at least 4 ? + s.mg box + rockchips hm... seems your true recurrent revenue is more like 2k
asciilifeform: i'm pretty sure my figure is slightly moar pessimistic than the reality
asciilifeform: because i left out 1u rental fees
asciilifeform: s.mg rents rather than owns box, and pays for this
asciilifeform: i gotta fix this
mircea_popescu: anyway, so the story here is that you have ~12% occupancy and ~20-30% revenue ?
asciilifeform: approx
asciilifeform: still digging for the mo. cost of the s.mg unit
mircea_popescu: sounds fab.
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc .4752 / 12
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 0.0396
asciilifeform: well sounds ok until realize that we gotta make a qualitative breakthrough somehow in heathendom; i suspect that l1 is tapped out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is less, this includes 2 FG
asciilifeform: which i drew as separate param
mircea_popescu: ah. ok.
asciilifeform: i am looking for the exact cost
mircea_popescu: how tight were the 6 rockchips packaged ? 2 u ? 1 ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pilot plant is very undense, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rockchip1.jpg , http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rockchip2.jpg
mircea_popescu: how dense can you conceivably get it to be ?
asciilifeform: (unbuilt !! yet) adult plant puts 24 in a 1u
asciilifeform: pilot plant was built to answer the -- until then, entirely open -- q of whether anyone even wants any.
mircea_popescu: if i were you folk i would very seriously be looking at geting refinanced, taking ~300 rockchips there and filling a dozen us with them.
asciilifeform: and ~quickly~. ( asciilifeform in fact drilled, tapped the holes, the night before flight , and assembled in hotel )
mircea_popescu: if you rent them out you're made.
asciilifeform: so far nobody even seems to want unit-6
asciilifeform: gotta drum up demand..
asciilifeform: and yes imho rockchip is 'ze fyootoor'(tm)
mircea_popescu: have you ever sold anything before ? the situation here isn't "no one seems to even want the last one". the situatio nis "we sold most of them"
asciilifeform: i like mircea_popescu's optimism and good spirit
mircea_popescu: business is business.
asciilifeform: the heaviest question hanging so far , i think, is the heathen question
mircea_popescu: what's a rockchip actually cost i forget ? like 30 bux + the ssd ?
asciilifeform: selling to l1 was comparatively simple
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: with disk -- ~100
mircea_popescu: im sorry, the what did it have, disk ? aha.
asciilifeform: not inclusive of the power supply
asciilifeform: it takes usb3-anythings
mircea_popescu: can you carry 300 ?
asciilifeform: current pilot are equipped with 128G flash drive ea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they weigh 50 grams, but would absolutely have to be carried mounted inside their mount, or customs will behead
asciilifeform: ( i had to put on a quite vigorous juggling show just to get my 6 unmolested in )
asciilifeform: !Qcalc 0.050 * 300
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: 15
asciilifeform: i.e. same mass as s.mg server. but the mounts, power supplies, internal gb ethernet switches, would have to also come.
asciilifeform: ( uy customs doesn't give half a shit re anyffing 1u-shaped, apparently , regardless of internals )
asciilifeform: possibly this would extend to 2u or whatver else fits in case. the allergen is specifically 'pile of naked pcb'
asciilifeform: those -- look enuff like 'bag for sale to orcs in the sunday market' to trigger the light show.
mircea_popescu: alright then.
mircea_popescu: still sounds like it'd fit in 100 kgs.
mircea_popescu: at least now you have a driver. you want a plan, web support, and sales people to push this. you know what you're pushing at least.
asciilifeform: it quite easily could. esp. if i can get a hold of aluminum chassis.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: trouble is that presently nobody seems to know anything about how to sell anything whatsoever to heathens.
asciilifeform: this will have to be fixed.
mircea_popescu: how many fgs does pizarro even have ? like 50 or so ?
asciilifeform: let's see ben_vulpes's tables:
asciilifeform: answer seems to be 29 , of last (feb) count, but 4 now installed
asciilifeform: so 25 avail.
mircea_popescu: understand, if you lease these even as low as 30/mo, your occupancy jumps to... 15%, while your revenue goes to 200%.
asciilifeform: right
mircea_popescu: well... gotta do it.
asciilifeform: so far nobody's managed to provoke any interest among heathens in fg, rented or bought or etc. , afaik
mircea_popescu: nor tried to any sort of standard.
asciilifeform: possibly
asciilifeform: i spammed a buncha academitards, with the predictable silence as the output
asciilifeform: it was most depressing exercise
mircea_popescu: you're cute.
lobbes: I don't know sales, but I know heathens; I wager those rockchips will be a way easier sell than the shared hosting, for e.g.
mircea_popescu: lobbes, quite.
lobbes: Nice price point, plus the "host anything you want" angle
lobbes: Well "anything"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6 : if lobbes is interested in selling on commission, i would like him to begin asap , with your approval
asciilifeform: ditto danielpbarron or anybody else whose hands grow from correct organ and wants to step up to this mission
asciilifeform: meanwhile i will begin preparation for full scale rockchip plant.
asciilifeform: ( limited to catalogue shifting and paper design, no expenditure until board approves )
asciilifeform: *sifting
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, honestly i'd start planning for the next trip. understand the simple fact of the matter : if you manage to get pizarro 300 rockchips racked, you've produced at least a coupla bitcoin's value for it.
asciilifeform: right, incl delivery
mircea_popescu: because nobody else can get them through customs etc.
asciilifeform: these things dun deliver themselves.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, you have this problem though whereby you don't actually have WHAT to sell as it stands.
asciilifeform: rrright
asciilifeform: did not expect it so quickly, but yes.
mircea_popescu: and you don't really want to turn away the first leads ; they're usually the best in that they reproduce.
asciilifeform: aside from the shared hostings.
asciilifeform: ( still the highest-margin product , if anybody can be persuaded to buy it..)
mircea_popescu: they come with hand-rolled minimal gentoo or what was it ?
asciilifeform: they do !
mircea_popescu: ironically, the tor tulpas should be all over this :D
asciilifeform: >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295 <<
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: sadly the tulpapeople are ultra-costsensitive crowd..
asciilifeform: ( afaik their world begins and ends with shitazon/vpn/etc market )
asciilifeform bbl,petting pet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, other than catalogue sifting, write the words for the eventual kicass page.
lobbes: I would definitely be interested >> (+asciilifeform) ben_vulpes, mod6 : if lobbes is interested in selling on commission, i would like him to begin asap , with your approval
mircea_popescu: explain how it's NO intel inside ; how it's no nsa-ssh ; how etc.
mircea_popescu: lobbes, you ever sold anything before ?!
lobbes: Not really.
mircea_popescu: lol ok.
mircea_popescu: first time for everything, rite.
lobbes: I've had jobs where I had sales quotas way back when, but.. I hated lying
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with giving it a try ; who knows, you discover a talent -- often people don't know they're great at X thing because of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806663 problem, all "practicians" in the field are boecks.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 18:21 mircea_popescu: in front of this, whether we idly decide that he's just dumb or actually evil, ie, his brain dun work like in the case of say bernstein ; or his brain doth work, but he deliberately attempts to shannonize republican words into imperial outcomes, a la curtis yarvin, jwz, whatever.... well what fucking difference does it make.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, pizarro absolutely needs a star salesman.
lobbes: I was told I was "good at selling myself, so I should do the same for their "products"". Difference was I thought all their 'products' were useless and not needed (this was a retail bank teller job)
lobbes: So I quit; went back to (then) stacking fruit at supermarket
lobbes: "Ask this old lady if she wants a credit card!!" "Ugh.. I'm sure she does not need any moar credit"
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm not trying to discourage you here.
lobbes: Anyways, I guess I'm saying I wouldn't mind trying to sell a product I actually -believe is good-
lobbes: Hey, I'm a customer myself!
mircea_popescu: word hehe. how do you like it ?
lobbes: So far so good. Going to slowly migrate all of my vps shit onto it.
lobbes: Tickerbot will also live there, once it is built. But it is great. I was up and running in no time! I dare anyone to find individualized customer on the level of Pizarro. Try it yourself and you will see immediately what I mean. They offer month-to-month if you just want to try, with discounts for quarterly payments once you feel comfortable << see? sales pitch
lobbes: Anyways, I'ma bbl
mircea_popescu: laters lel
ben_vulpes eating log
ben_vulpes: lookit lobbes, already drafting his pitch. lobbes you're ~hired
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-4#350180 << aah, this makes sense. a liability, effectively. so i'll hafta rework this whole thing.☝︎
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-04 23:45 mircea_popescu: prolly should look into the concept of "unearned income". technically money you were paid for services you've not yet rendered belongs to the customers' equity line.
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-4#350177 << well i checked it twice, changed something and then failed to check it again is what happened. so, must rework and restate.☝︎
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-04 23:37 mircea_popescu: also, seeing how 13.86965669 != 13.81965669 your books aren't balanced. wtf happened ?
mircea_popescu: minigame has a similar item, whereby the fact that players bought ECu does not immediately translate to a gain for minigame. there's >100 btc's worth sloshing around in there.
ben_vulpes: i have seen this, and it was a mistake to not follow suit.
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-5#350270 << http://archive.is/jp4kZ followed by...☝︎
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-05 00:25 mircea_popescu: understand, if you lease these even as low as 30/mo, your occupancy jumps to... 15%, while your revenue goes to 200%.
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-4-17#337036
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-04-17 14:23 ascii_lander: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-4-17#336946 << ben_vulpes, imho this is starvation-level lowball. your figures do not factor in the cost of ~building out~ the plant, i.e. building new rockchiptrons.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-04-17 05:19 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TnPaf/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: !!up quadsar
mircea_popescu: !!up quadsar
deedbot: quadsar voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: quadsar voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: ohai quadsar
ben_vulpes: who are you
quadsar: uhh
mircea_popescu: lol
quadsar: i was watching l0de radio for the first time i dont really belong here
mircea_popescu: too late now.
ben_vulpes: what are you talking about, more than any pantsuit 'big tent', you can make yourself into the kind of person who belongs here.
ben_vulpes: stick around long enough and you'll either be made into ^ or spat out
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, the logic being that you're being eaten away at the rate of what, 5% each month ? you can either wait a year and a half to die or sally forth and meet the enemy.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: sorry, i do not follow
mircea_popescu: was in re "building the plant".
mircea_popescu: you put a buncha stuff in log above.
ben_vulpes: ah, is this in re the refinancing for plant buildout?
mircea_popescu: this is in general re -- the very conservative approach with expenditure seen in every other bitcoin corp is due to their having immense balance sheets and tiny forced expenditures. minigame can fucking afford to go slow on nearly ten thousand btc.
mircea_popescu: you however -- you're a wolf rider not a cyclops, if you ever played heroes 3. gotta run there and hit something.
ben_vulpes: i completely agree.
ben_vulpes: time is not on pizarro's side.
mircea_popescu: besides, you can afford it, shockingly enough. 300 x 100 is what, 3.x btc. not the end of the world. if he actually gets it through the blocade you have an item arguably worth twice that.
mircea_popescu: if bitcoin starts dropping again people will be begging to buy into you, logically.
ben_vulpes: this is the "when do you start trading?" thread all over again; i'm going to have to review both in depth i think i'm thick as it didn't stick the first time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: baggage holds 4u of machine; there is no practical way to get >24 units of rockchip into a 1u , per my reckoning
asciilifeform: nor is there even the slimmest chance of getting naked bag of naked rockchips in qty approaching 300, through customs. they have to move assembled into 1us.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can you pull a number for per-u fab cost out of your rear?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, so you're thinking like 100 is your limit ?
mircea_popescu: filling that thing 4 u at a time will take like a dozen fucking trips lol.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i can give a floor. a rc is about 100bux, with the usbstick. chassis, let's say 400. beefy 5v ps : 200. cabling, negligible, but for pessimism say 100.
mircea_popescu: by which time you'll likely have another one.
asciilifeform: gb switch for 24 arses -- 100.
asciilifeform: !Qcalc 2400 + 400 + 200 + 100 + 100
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: 3200
asciilifeform: in iron strictly. add to this, spare sticks.
ben_vulpes: yeah i know the costs for sticks and rockchippen; i wanna know chassis, your time, stuff like cabling
ben_vulpes: switches
asciilifeform: not exactly pocket change.
ben_vulpes tallying
asciilifeform: forget time, i dun get paid for time.
asciilifeform: shouldn't take 4evah to assemble tho. 1 weekend, i picture, per.
ben_vulpes: what it costs to bolt the chassis together i mean
asciilifeform: buncha drilling, really.
ben_vulpes: right
ben_vulpes: so five bucks! for the tap
asciilifeform: 4 holes per RC.
ben_vulpes: laugh a little wouldja
asciilifeform: i'm also on the lookout for even smaller arm boards ( found 1 , but the specs do not stand up to bang-per-buck comparison with RC )
ben_vulpes: look also for boards that'll trbate
asciilifeform: also for compact n-port switches ( the popular ones, are stupidly large physically, and eat away precious space inside the enclosure )
ben_vulpes: not because i want to pack trbs in but because it is *the* litmus test of compute: "will it bitcoinate?"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: RC will trbate, if you give it large disk
ben_vulpes: !!update fromdeedbot
asciilifeform: far better, for instance, than my node 'zoolag', specwise
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: huh i was laboring under the impression that it had unforgivably bad io or something
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the only thing preventing trb on the existing pilotplant rockchippen is the small disk.
asciilifeform: nope.
ben_vulpes: aok then wow marvelous
asciilifeform: usb3 is moar than adequate.
ben_vulpes: rsa *and* bitcoin-safe coloware
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: for about 100bux you can try it yourself, using http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295 and a home rockchip.
ben_vulpes: this is grade a shitcoin walletfarm fodder
ben_vulpes: if only shitcoinists were gentoo-capable...
asciilifeform: they dun need to magick the gentoo from 0 tho
asciilifeform: we give it with subscription
ben_vulpes: yeah but gimme a break, none of the shitcoins are going to work on anything but ubuntu and with a gui
asciilifeform: ( or for that matter without subscription, anybody can get it from above link and make own to try with )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i unfortunately cannot comment on shitcoin-related uses
asciilifeform: tho if we had a miner, it'd be tempting item to install while there's still mains current capacity left over that is already being paid for. tho of course nobody has a miner, not for many years.
ben_vulpes: heh i actually have this usb thinger sitting unused i got as a wedding present forever and a day ago
asciilifeform: y'know what i mean.
ben_vulpes: aha
asciilifeform: the fat, roaring, 4u kind.
asciilifeform: multi-kW.
asciilifeform: upstack re possible hundreds of new boxes -- gotta remember that the bw pipe is not made of rubber
asciilifeform: at some point folx will start to feel cramped.
asciilifeform: ( exactly when, i do not know )
ben_vulpes: after we can afford more bw, i hazard
mircea_popescu: !!up fromdeedbot
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: lol i signaled !!update
fromdeedbot: just lurking
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, different kind of compute. there's two kinds, bitcoinate is the other one.
mircea_popescu: fromdeedbot, you can just read the logs you know.
fromdeedbot: ty i ahve been reading them off and on for a few months
mircea_popescu: a cool.
fromdeedbot: its actually kind of strange actually talking to guys here lol
ben_vulpes: fromdeedbot: so reg a key, rent a rockchip
fromdeedbot: (say actually again)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, nobody's going to send a proper miner to fucking uruguay. you don't even have the power for it there.
fromdeedbot: i looked i need to download software
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what'd the other nonbitcoinating kind of compute be?
fromdeedbot: i really like the concept of web based on accountability and credibility
mircea_popescu: fromdeedbot, you can also compile alf's ffa and do it all by hand :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aside from the fact that nobody has any such thing to send... there's 2.5kW iirc in the rack, of which maybe half a kw is actually drawn. so in principle such a thing could.
trinque: considered getting a... UY-facing marketing effort going?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, serving trilema (ie, high bw, inconsequential io/cpuram) / doing phuctor (heavy cpuram, inconsequentual io/bw).
fromdeedbot: i'm hoping that this system will be streamlined a bit
ben_vulpes: fromdeedbot: for my notebook, what needs streamlining?
mircea_popescu: trinque, sell to locals ?! but why the fuck.
trinque: they don't buy website hosting there?
ben_vulpes: trinque: that was what was behind the minimal hosting gedankenexperiment
trinque: and the other idea I had was sending danielpbarron back into l0de radio hour with an ad
trinque: or one of you folks, but they already heard from him a few times.
asciilifeform: selling to locals might actually be a dangerous liability, for all we know they have 'legal rights' to xyz
ben_vulpes: heh judging from teh l0de patreon page could buy some airtime
asciilifeform: ( to complain, wheedle, demand refunds for emptied bottle, etc )
trinque: !!up danielpbarron
deedbot: danielpbarron voiced for 30 minutes.
fromdeedbot: @ben the process of registering a key
danielpbarron: i just gave a shoutout to pizarro on l0de
trinque: eyyyy!
asciilifeform: neato danielpbarron
ben_vulpes: word, thanks danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: trinque, not really. it's like trying to direct marketing effort at montana.
ben_vulpes: fromdeedbot: a) the whole name is tab-completable and should be used b) it's really not that hard dood
ben_vulpes: have you...tried?
trinque: mircea_popescu: who's the customer you have in mind?
mircea_popescu: zx2c4.
mircea_popescu: and you'll run out of uruguay before you run out of them.
trinque: heh probably so.
mircea_popescu: moreover alf has a solid point. you have 0 interest in dealing with local orcs. there's a reason chinese soy farm in africa dun sell soy to africans.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, ruby mine, brothel, what have you.
ben_vulpes: looks like the monthly cost basis, assuming a 1-yr amortization horizon is 18.35 usd
mircea_popescu: and if they last 10 years you're basically printing money.
ben_vulpes: oodles.
mircea_popescu: and he wanted a bitcoin miner. this is higher btc/watt
ben_vulpes: fully-rented 4u of this would bring us to breakeven at $50/mo, but demands 100% occupancy, otoh that's only 25% of 16U rockchip plant occupancy. so, i don't see a really compelling case for bringing the price down much further.
ben_vulpes: imma rework april, thanks for catching my derps mircea_popescu
ben_vulpes: !!up fromdeedbot you gotta close the web page when you close your laptop
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
fromdeedbot: my bad i thought i did
fromdeedbot: i have an rsa key now
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-4#349507 << i too would like some of these dollops, should one slide from your spoon☝︎
mircea_popescu: !!key fromdeedbot
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-04 16:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, /me will expose the hand, might as well be upfront about things. so, asciilifeform did at some point express some interest in learning the magical crafts of management ; i since fed him the occasional dollop, in the manner this craft was always taught whenever it was taught. as part of this, when he left for montevideo i specifically told him to recognize BingoBoingo 's efforts
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/6DBC69DC83A746F5A2ED84C61FDDE5538BEF220B.asc
mircea_popescu: lmao check him out, he actually registered that nick.
ben_vulpes: lol he actually got the fromdeedbot handle
ben_vulpes: epic
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, you just got one earlier!
mircea_popescu: but noted.
ben_vulpes: yes and thank you!
fromdeedbot: so how do i register it with deedbot
fromdeedbot: !!498478E2A39BD8C1
fromdeedbot: im new
ben_vulpes: fromdeedbot: you read the faq and help pages
mircea_popescu: fromdeedbot, you did already apparently. umm.... wait wait.
trinque: wtf did he even do just now
mircea_popescu: SOMEONE ELSE reg'd that nick.
ben_vulpes: oh lawdamercy
ben_vulpes: fromdeedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
fromdeedbot: gpg: key 498478E2A39BD8C1 marked as ultimately trusted
mircea_popescu: fromdeedbot, you can't register this nick ; pick a better one. then say !!register and your fingerprint.
fromdeedbot: from my terminal
trinque: and the way this is going, understand he doesn't mean touch your computer screen
mircea_popescu: i like how there's practically no snark here ever at all.
trinque: d'aw
trinque: come on back with a better nick "fromdeedbot", and register that.
ben_vulpes: fellas ears are probably bright red
mircea_popescu: you know this eulora server is actually more connection-stable than th eother one ?
ben_vulpes: win.
mircea_popescu: these mega fucking logs of late... i dunno how the lurkers do it.
ben_vulpes: oh dear i am going to need a vastly better system for debiting unearned income.
ben_vulpes bbl
mircea_popescu: !Qlater tell fromdeedbot stop join/parting.
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809270 << jesus fucking christ, ~every time you're in here there's a new rendition of this abject kramerism. why not read what people are saying rather than jump to the same idiosyncratically-imagined categories of what people could possibly express? what, you figure making the same brushstroke over and over will eventually paint tmsr into what'd be convenient for you personally?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 16:57 zx2c4: - hanno being a journalist is a mere cover story for a more sinister secret government intelligence job he holds.
mod6: lobbes: did you ever figure out your trb issue that you ran into?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i like mircea_popescu's optimism and good spirit << Same, thanks for your advise and insights, Sir.
lobbes: mod6 not yet (been working on getting mp-wp migrated to rockchip). Here's the egogg message I got though >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sOYqV/?raw=true
lobbes: well, the tail end of the log (I neglected to log the output of 'screen')
mircea_popescu: that's mp-wp ?
lobbes: oh no, that is trb
lobbes: i.e. not yet figured out trb, because I've been working on mp-wp migration
mircea_popescu: iirc screen logs automatically. screen.log
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes, mod6 : if lobbes is interested in selling on commission, i would like him to begin asap , with your approval << Sounds good to me, gotta work out the details, etc, but hey, yeah, whatever we can do to push into heathondom
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ditto danielpbarron or anybody else whose hands grow from correct organ and wants to step up to this mission << werd
lobbes: mircea_popescu, oh nice tip! I'll have to check for it..
mod6 looks @ lobbes' error
mod6: lobbes: what OS are you building on?
lobbes: debian 7
lobbes: (wheezy)
mod6: yeah, I believe i have seen something like this before
mod6: did you downgrade your gcc from (6 or whatever it is to 4, I'm guessing you did)? And perhaps I recall something not being quite linked correctly in
mod6 scratches head...
mod6: /etc/alternatives or whatever.
mod6: try seeing in your shell if "c" is linked to anything.
lobbes: yeah, I made sure gcc was 4. Actually, I have notes on the exact versions of all the packages listed in: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html
mod6: Yeah, hmm, I might be mis-remembering or misreading this one. Lemme look again
mod6: how much of your log was snipped? looks like tons.
lobbes: yeah, I can jump on and see if I can get the full thing via screen.log
mod6: alright. looks to me like it got all the way through the deps builds, but for some reason puked when trying to build trb itself.
mod6: I presume you got a good press when you used V to press it out?
mod6: (no errors were encountered?)
lobbes: heres package version info >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kuBuY/?raw=true
lobbes: my guess is my press may be the cause
mod6: did you install 'build-essential' ?
mod6: Hey, thanks for saving those versions!
lobbes: I tried to press on the first pass with asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks.vpatch, and it -seemed- to work. I essentially followed the trb how-to ONLINE build, but then downloaded the aggressive patch and seal from btcbase/patches
lobbes: then issued: "./v.pl p v trb054 asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks.vpatch"
mod6: hmm. just a sec.
lobbes: no errors and everything made it into tbr054/bitcoin >>http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sbkbq/?raw=true
lobbes: oh yeah, no rush. I figure I may as well give what I got at once
mod6: Ok, I checked myself, too, and from your above paste of the press, and my experience just now, your press I presume was fine.
mod6: So what does this show you:
mod6: command -v cc
mod6: (i suspect this to be a possible debian weird-ness)
lobbes: /usr/bin/cc
mod6: what does `ls -al /usr/bin/cc` show you?
lobbes: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 May 4 00:29 /usr/bin/cc -> /etc/alternatives/cc
mod6: and if you do `ls -al /etc/alternatives/cc` ?
lobbes is following the pattern now >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/n8J9Z/?raw=true
lobbes: and then if I try to ls gcc-4.7 I get: ls: cannot access gcc-4.7: No such file or directory
lobbes: damn
mod6: what about `ls -al /usr/bin/g++` ?
mod6: woah
mod6: really?
lobbes: oh wait, duh. that makes sense
mod6: try this: `command -v gcc-4.7` see what it tells you, then do `ls -al <from_whatever_command-v_told_you>
mod6: `
lobbes composes more pastes
mod6: it's probably /usr/bin/gcc-4.7
lobbes: yeah it is
mod6: ok
lobbes: for good measure , results of above anyway >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/l9RJL/?raw=true
mod6: what i suspect, is that the original makefile.unix can't find something it needs.
mod6: alright.
mod6: well, wanna follow some more steps so we can capture a proper, shorter output?
mod6: (of the error)
lobbes: yeah I'm game
mod6: ok
mod6: so go to your trb machine, and then cd into : bitcoin/src
lobbes: k, I'm there
mod6: alright, next, do this exactly:
mod6: make -f makefile.unix clean
lobbes goes to make sure logging is working
lobbes: alright command issued
mod6: ok next, do this exactly:
mod6: cd ../build
lobbes: k
mod6: ok lastly, this exactly:
mod6: make -f Makefile.rotor bitcoind
lobbes: ah, there I got a egogg: make: *** No rule to make target `bitcoin'. Stop.
mod6: 'bitcoind'
lobbes: ack. k alright
lobbes: different error now
mod6: post error
mod6: plz
lobbes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qtUD9/?raw=true
mod6 looks
mod6: ok samething.
mod6: hang tight, one sec here..
mod6: ok
mod6: <+mod6> did you install 'build-essential' ?
mod6: And if not, I think we might be able to try working around it here quick,.
lobbes: nice! ty for the help
lobbes: brb
mod6: ok
lobbes: back
mod6: are you still in the 'bitcoin/build' directory?
lobbes: yes
mod6: ok try this:
mod6: export CC=/usr/bin/gcc
lobbes: k, issued
mod6: ok next:
mod6: make -f Makefile.rotor bitcoind
mod6: (see if you get anything different this time)
lobbes: same error looks like
mod6: hmm, ok.
mod6: well, this is a deb problem of some kind.
mod6: my next suggestion is to try to install build-essential, ala: `apt-get install build-essential`
mod6: and see if that solves it for ya.
mod6: for folks following along, these problems are very common in ubuntu and debian.
lobbes goes to check
lobbes: now that I think of it, I had to install 'make' in the beginning O.o
lobbes: alright, build-essential installed
mod6: ok, try this again:
mod6: make -f Makefile.rotor bitcoind
lobbes: damn, same thing
mod6: alright, do this:
mod6: source ~/.bashrc
mod6: (want to clear the export CC)
mod6: then do this again:
mod6: make -f Makefile.rotor bitcoind
lobbes: ah okay. no ~/.bashrc on this thing, digging on how to clear that in debian
mod6: oh just do this:
mod6: export CC=
lobbes: okay, cleared and tried make again, but same egogg
mod6: this is soemthing really dumb we're missing here. i'm nearly sure i've encountered this before but can't remember what the pill is.
mod6: do this:
mod6: make --version
lobbes: 3.81
lobbes: possibly relevant thread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698646☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-16 02:50 mike_c: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/iKxpS/?raw=true
lobbes: error looks similar (archived) >> http://archive.is/UdM7q
mod6 looks
mod6: ok standby
mircea_popescu: jesus wth happened here
mod6: lobbes: if you are still in the `bitcoin/build' directory, what does `ls -al toolchain/usr/bin/x86_64-therealbitcoin-linux-musl-g++` return?
mod6: mircea_popescu: no clue.
lobbes: ls: cannot access toolchain/usr/bin/x86_64-therealbitcoin-linux-musl-g++: No such file or directory
mod6: ok.
mircea_popescu: mod6, lobbes any reason this can't work in pm ?
mod6: so something waaaay earlier on failed to build.
mod6: mircea_popescu: done.
douchebag: hey mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: sup
mod6: Sorry all, thought it might be helpful to others if we got his problem resolved.
douchebag: !!v mother[m]
mod6: Notice that there was no real resolution to the mike_c problem referenced by lobbes.
douchebag: !!up mother[m]
deedbot: mother[m] voiced for 30 minutes.
douchebag: mircea_popescu: mother is one of my friends, he's a businessman and has a lot of good connections and would definitely be of use for the security firm
douchebag: I explained to him the idea, and I was thinking mother[m] could be handling the business aspect
mother[m]: Hello
mircea_popescu: hi there.
mircea_popescu: welcome to the republic >.>
mother[m]: Good to be here. douchebag gave me the big picture of what this would look like.
mircea_popescu: so wanna tell the group a little about yourself ?
lobbes: !#s http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=who+is+your+daddy
a111: 0 results for "http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=who+is+your+daddy", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fbtcbase.org%2Flog-search%3Fq%3Dwho%2Bis%2Byour%2Bdaddy
mother[m]: Finance/Tech background mostly. Sold the IP in my last company I co-Founded with my friend that was at the Rackspace IPO. Just came back from West Africa using drones for geological surveying reselling the data to mining companies/using a prospect generation business model for new opportunities there.
mircea_popescu: !!rate mother[m] 1 things.
deedbot: mother[m] is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: mother[m], once that goes through you'll be able to voice yourself ; feel free to contribute if there's something.
mircea_popescu: oh. hm. not registered ?
mother[m]: I'm on Riot/Matrix, sec.
douchebag: !!up mother[m]
deedbot: mother[m] voiced for 30 minutes.
douchebag: I'll help him get his PGP key setup
mircea_popescu: mother[m], don't you find it difficult to do business without pgp ? i mean... how do you even keep comms secret ?
douchebag: He's doing that right now
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in #entomologist, the great successes of the webworld : https://archive.is/BABpP#selection-1653.0-1650.6
mircea_popescu shall bbl.
douchebag: mircea_popescu: About how long?
lobbes: "The site is under heavy development, data shown could be out of sync. And its full with bugs :-)"
asciilifeform: lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-05#1810194 << exactly it. your musl gcc never built, so trb has nothing to be built ~with~. you must find out why it did not build. but i recommend burning your heathen linux to the ground and using danielpbarron's, or trinque's, or mine, gentoo recipe☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-05 06:41 lobbes: possibly relevant thread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1698646
asciilifeform: the 'make[1]: c: Command not found' thing is dead giveaway.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-05#1810202 << ah there we go.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-05 06:48 lobbes: ls: cannot access toolchain/usr/bin/x86_64-therealbitcoin-linux-musl-g++: No such file or directory
shinohai: Was reading logs this morning and saw: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-05#1810071 ... On newer deb/african pthread issues were solved with `libpthread-stubs0-dev` pkg☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-05 05:31 lobbes: mod6 not yet (been working on getting mp-wp migrated to rockchip). Here's the egogg message I got though >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sOYqV/?raw=true
shinohai: I remembered it from the agent zero sessions
shinohai: Anywho, do with it what you will.
douchebag: hey
douchebag: can someone rate mother[m]
douchebag: so that he can up himelf
douchebag: !!rate mother[m] business dude
douchebag: !!rate mother[m] 1 business dude
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/akDvx/?raw=true
douchebag: !!v B2547117925CBD3576E3D588584F3F90F0596EC1E2B45938E999D44D10F2D98C
deedbot: douchebag rated mother[m] 1 << business dude
douchebag: !!up mother[m]
deedbot: mother[m] voiced for 30 minutes.
mother[m]: That works.
mother[m]: @mircea_popescu have one on Keybase I use, but primarily use Signal, Telegram for co-located team members as the interface gradually became more 'Slack-like'
mother[m]: Going forward I wanted to pivot to Keybase Teams.
mother[m]: I'm more interested in buying options/forwards on both BTC and ETH.
mother[m]: To my knowledge, Nadex is the only regulated exchange on the US markets for this right now.
mod6: asciilifeform: aha, for those following along, we moved that conversation to #trilema-mod6
diana_coman: phf, further clarifications on your questions re eulora's protocol: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/#comment-1168
mircea_popescu: mother[m], the republic doesn't much care for usg pretense, "regulation" or otherwise. why would you ?
mircea_popescu: moreover, website-security is another way of saying no security.
mircea_popescu: !!key mother[m]
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/7AA8FDF2111A472EC370A85BA3CF0E94E51C0814.asc
mircea_popescu: !!rate mother[m] 1 things
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tyuRV/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: douchebag, there.
mircea_popescu: in other curios, what's drone utility for geosurvey anyway ? is there some relationship between visual presentation and mineral deposits identified meanwhile ? or what, they carry honest to god radars and ultrasound machinery and whatnot ? afaik none of it could be fit in a ten ton truck let alone a hundred gram drone.
mircea_popescu: anyway, re bitcoin options (and strictly bitcoin options -- ethereum is not a thing nor can be considered as one anymore than you can consider "real estate" on imaginary planets a part of this discussion) there are two problems.
mircea_popescu: the general is that there exists no reliable bitcoin price signal. most (by VERY far most) bitcoin transactions are handled otc, and not reported, and usually settle over non-economic considerations. for instance -- most of the btc the usg has historically lost on the market in its half dozen or so attempts to mainipulate the price were obtained by theft and extortion, not by economic activity, and consequently they didn't ha
mircea_popescu: ve a meaningful price anyone ever ascertained.
mircea_popescu: it's true that there are some websites printing random numbers, but their fantasies lack any economic substance whatsoever, and therefore eminently can;'t be relied on to price derivative instruments.
mircea_popescu: mpex offered options for a long, long time, but mostly because the nascent republic required its currency protected in those early days ; back when i was personaly large enough to maintain some vague semblance of discipline in the marketplace singlehandedly. it's meanwhile wel loutgrown me and so...
mircea_popescu: however, the ~personal~ problem is that even in those early days, options systematically expired at the max pain point (as for instance discussed in http://trilema.com/2011/max-pain/ though it was a regular occurence really.
mircea_popescu: so if you, mother[m], have other goals than losing your shirt, putting your money in bitcoin options, forwards, whatever time-derivative is exactly the incorrect strategy.
mircea_popescu: aand in other items of entomological interest, the wikipedia take on politicized pseudo-literary criticism is something else. aphra behn is lionized, because they're ever-so-desperate to discover, invent or if need be entirely hallucinate "remarkable" cuntbearers of the shakespeare period that some random jailbird is A HEROINE OF FEMINISM!!!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile charles gildon is the bad because a) male and b) said the bad about HEROINES OF FEMINISM. and Edmund Curll is just as bad, because he was friends with that baddie gildon. notwithstanding ~100% of what the aspirational class is all the fuck about is, "being a curll of the 21st century", no more and nothing else. somehow the hero of neets is not remarkable to the very neets in question.
mircea_popescu: turns out the darkness of what's later referred to as a "dark age" is not actually visible from inside the age in question ; pantsuited morons from crisconius to comnena similarly felt well at ease on their redditardits, wikitardits &cetertardits.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform, nobody's going to send a proper miner to fucking uruguay. you don't even have the power for it there. << Maybe at the dam in Salto, but no way in hell Montevideo.
mircea_popescu: many better options for the cheap mw ; and no fucking way a kw farm is worth anyone's time. that'd be like a 12 sq inch diner.
mircea_popescu: it's the fucking megawatt standard! not the picowatt or anything.
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> turns out the darkness of what's later referred to as a "dark age" is not actually visible from inside the age in question << dunning-kruger ain't just for individuals
mircea_popescu: especially compounded by the only truly universal religion, panglossism. what's a pious fraud or two when at stake's not having to get fat ass off couch!
BingoBoingo: But yeah, in the Pizarro rack would be insanity. For miners in Uruguay to work it would be necessary to take the dam at Salto and mine with the power that would have gone to the Argentine side.
mircea_popescu: the funny part is that these are some people for whom simultaneously two things stand : a) that the best thing they can hear about homework is "it's already done" ; and b) that the best possible state is "youth".
mircea_popescu: well how the fuck do you reconcile a and b, the only thing about youth is that homework's not fucking done!
hanbot: i dunno, i think the best thing they can hear about homework is that they're so special they don't need to do it. their unicornity shall manifest, and better to retain/don the woolies of youth to maximize the potential for manifesting firstbestbiggest.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i suspect hearing that always comes with a however-hidden sense of shame / suspicion. they kinda look like they think it's tgtbt.
hanbot: which is possibly another reason why curll/gildon are officially bad; they actively did things, making idle spellcasters look bad.
lobbes: the whole "fixation on youth" thing really feeds into the insanity cycle, huh? That age where "anything is possible" as long as you don't let experience (be it from others or self) tell you otherwise
mircea_popescu: lobbes, sure, "Everything is possible" -- with the usual caveat that "just as long as it's not big, noteworthy or important". a kid "can do anything" except nothing interesting, something kids generally keenly feel but apparently ustarded adults somehow forget.
hanbot: mircea_popescu eh, shame / suspicion are just anxiety / depression! there's pills, and "everybody goes through it" and "it's not their fault" etc
mircea_popescu: hanbot, not just DID things ; but did things as if they had license to do things. it's this sort of mental independence that botheres them most re gildon i suspect, "how dares he write biographies exactly LIKE HOW WE WRITE THEM!!! not a word of his is true, nor of the official lifestory of obama-clinton-oprah".
hanbot: indeed
mircea_popescu: ye olde http://trilema.com/2018/memoranda-of-congress/#selection-157.596-161.1
mircea_popescu: "that there was a limit where the flaunting of their foul acts and opinions before the world must stop" aka http://trilema.com/2018/discordatum-wormatiense/ aka "pantsuit is only sovereign"
lobbes: "nothing else outside of the empire's walls. this is it", so can do "anything" within that reality, which reduces to "nothing of import". But still, can
lobbes: 't see the dark age from inside
mircea_popescu: cuz it's never dark, from inside. the amusing situation of classical eschatology is that lucifer simply forked the chain, and as best can tell is a very credible and not at all falen angel.
mircea_popescu: ie, http://trilema.com/2016/the-darkening/#selection-63.0-67.346
mircea_popescu: "For as long as there is even one, all the others have died in vain. And once there's not a single one left, they had never existed altogether in the first place."
mircea_popescu: !!up quadsar
deedbot: quadsar voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other accidentally exposed lulz, http://data.vtc.pw/
lobbes: in other news, I have a trb node up now and eating blocks (thanks to mod6 for all his troubleshooting efforts, and asciilifeform for confirmation of suspicions)
lobbes: details of resolution can be found over in castle mod6 >> http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema-mod6?d=2018-5-5#350950
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-05 21:42 lobbes: as promised, details: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IBQ84/?raw=true
lobbes: I will soon blog this into a proper post.. but mysql on heathen vps shit the bed. Posts to resume once migration to rockchip box complete
ben_vulpes: trb on rockchip, lobbes ?
lobbes: naw, on heathen cheap dedi
lobbes: rockchip will house blog, www, and botworks most likely
ben_vulpes: gotcha; what are their rates?
ben_vulpes: or who is it
lobbes: 25 bezzlebucks a month. Some dc in Kansas or something to that effect
lobbes: "wholesale internet"
lobbes: hdd only, but I got the aggressive patch applied, so will see if it can hack it
mircea_popescu: !!up phatcat
deedbot: phatcat voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/05/wife-initiated-pantsuit-code-of-conduct-hypocrisy-leads-to-llvm-developer-departure/ << Qntra - Wife Initiated Pantsuit Code Of Conduct Hypocrisy Leads To LLVM Developer Departure
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757902☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 16:11 asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.'
mircea_popescu: apparently usg came to terms with llvm failing in its strategic goals being unavoidable by now.