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867 entries in 0.515s
assbot: Mycelium Announces 'Entropy' Offline USB Paper Wallet Creator
pankkake: http://www.coindesk.com/mycelium-announces-entropy-offline-usb-paper-wallet-creator/ the issue here is that I don't trust my printer
asciilifeform points out that entropy is a far more dire concern for signing than key generation, interestingly
danielpbarron: but i guess it all rests on entropy generation and that's been a target for longer than Bitcoin has existed
BingoBoingo: I run on entropy like any good crypto process
bitcoinpete: dat entropy
ThickAsThieves: "This is exactly why we need Mycelium Entropy."
assbot: btclittlejohn comments on PSA: brainwallet.org's "random" button uses low-entropy Math.random()
justusranvier: If a contract is fully specified in some tangible form, then the amount of entropy in the explaination is inversely proportional to the simpleness.
assbot: Mycelium Entropy | Indiegogo
ThickAsThieves: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mycelium-entropy
ThickAsThieves: "All you do is plug it into a printer's USB port, and the device uses specialized hardware to create a random number with 256-bits of entropy."
assbot: The KillCap Refrigerator | musings on entropy
gribble: Romanian Dicelist pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/romanian-dicelist>; Climax pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/climax>; On Making High-Entropy Paper Wallets | When Bitcoin Met Pete: <http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/03/14/on-making-high-entropy-bitcoin-paper-wallets/>
mircea_popescu: the thing is, the hardcore future problem is not resolvable, as entropy only goes one way
teward: asciilifeform: might be because something else is installed alongside seahorse for entropy generation, I dunno. CLI only took an hour for 4096-bit keys.
asciilifeform: GUI has a tiny bit more entropy << ???
teward: agreed, asciilifeform, to be honest, CLI is my native environment, I prefer managing my keys via CLI. I just use Seahorse for generating, the GUI has a tiny bit more entropy, and I generate only 4096-strength keys :)
mircea_popescu: i have no idea where gpg win gets its entropy from
asciilifeform: decimation: LFSRs suck. and virtually every academic treatise on rng design assumes a very impoverished physical entropy source.
joecool: though there's some people that gen the keys on smartcard and never have it touch a system, i thought it better to gen offcard (could feed more entropy)
fluffypony: entropy isn't a very long word, jurov
assbot: Entropy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
fluffypony: Apocalyptic: also - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entropy - "a process of degradation or running down or a trend to disorder"
Apocalyptic: huh, how is entropy correlated with "degrading over time"
fluffypony: ENTROPY
TomServo: entropy?
jurov: lol andreas schildbach is just leaking "Mycelium Entropy" rng for printing paper wallets
fluffypony: ;;later tell benkay not sure if this relevant at all to what you guys are encountering wrt the 4096 bit entropy problem - https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/602f88552b64
mircea_popescu: the best error, like the best entropy, is the result of a different approach than culture.
benkay: client wants to do a thing with asymmetric crypto on the major mobile platforms, my guys are handling the ios side. apple provides a handy dandy set of apis for generating keys (your second 4096 bit key on a bleeding edge iphone will take over a minute to gather 'adequate' 'entropy', btw).
benkay: wrong direction on the entropy ladder
fluffypony: "move the mouse to generate entropy"
fluffypony: benkay: presumably due to lack of entropy not due to it being tough to crunch?
mircea_popescu: because "dictionary" or whatever. which is fine, but also, killing them is the general goal of entropy.
mircea_popescu: ie, not all keys work, key has to satisfy magic yubikey criteria on top of entropy
BingoBoingo: Normally the answer is the catcher calling pitches, as a great catcher is a slightly better source of entropy than the batter
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he was probably speaking of greg chaitin's entropy.
bounce: asciilifeform: I forgot who mentioned to hook a 10k resistor to a mike in, turn up the gain, and feed that to the entropy pool. how suitable an entropy source is that in your opinion?
asciilifeform: the numbers will show... beautiful entropy
artifexd: I've learned that the raspberry pi has a hardware rng. My current plan is to build use that. I'll Von Neumann it if necessary. Regardless, as soon as I get one, I'll use the tools asciilifeform recommended to measure the entropy.
asciilifeform: the one other useful fact is that entropy of (bad rng) xor (better rng) is equal to that of (better rng)
cgcardona_: i turn on loud music and shake my booty to generate extra entropy myself
BingoBoingo: Might be a decent source of entropy
kakobrekla: yeah the entropy on it is bad, no cardano sorry guise.
Apocalyptic: <tg2> Rngd uses more entropy points // not in your case
Apocalyptic: it's like an entropy feedback loop
tg2: Rngd uses more entropy points
Apocalyptic: you're using /dev/urandom as a source of entropy ?
tg2: can has entropy
deadweasel: put some entropy in that shit
deadweasel: oh man, i'm hungry, gonna make some entropy.
pankkake: well then, you *were* entropy starved
pankkake: anyway, my question was about /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail - if it's low then fixing *that* will make higher quality gpg keys faster
Apocalyptic: you're just depleting the entropy pool for no use
tg2: and at 5 keys/s, entropy generation is not the limitation
tg2: then you have sufficient entropy for gpg to operate
tg2: none seemed to have an impact and gpg never complaind about lack of entropy
Apocalyptic: tg2, you're just exhausting the entropy pool then
Apocalyptic: such entropy
tg2: it is using perl to generate entropy
tg2: provides enough entropy to get by
pankkake: tg2: fun. did you check you were not entropy starved for your performance stats?
tg2: fk this vanity gpg generator is an entropy whore
asciilifeform: incidentally, my first exposure to the problem of RNGs with inadequate entropy was by accident, at uni ☟︎☟︎
artifexd: Unless the bias is 100%, in which case there is no entropy to tap so you can't get any entropy out.
bitcoinpete: lordputin: did you set up email back-ups? either way, bc.info will be back eventually and then you can move 99% of those coins somewhere safer. http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/on-making-high-entropy-bitcoin-paper-wallets/
Mats_cd03: idk much about this crypto shit except that the dongle seems to have more entropy? feel free to chime in if you know anything
asciilifeform: http://blog.cr.yp.to/20140205-entropy.html
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'entropy' link was epic. author deserves some kind of medal. 'Order of Golden Turd, First Class' ?
jurov: hope in 50 years we'll be only poking fun about today's cargo cults of passwords, entropy and randomness
mircea_popescu: sorry, i generally agree with his point that people overuse random for no good reason, and that entropy isn't readily understood by the average coder,
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete just generate entropy the traditional way.
mircea_popescu: js mouse based "entropy" ? tis shitty.
asciilifeform: the version on my page (http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/manmach.html) is js
asciilifeform: translate http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/GD.BAS to modern programming language of your choice
jurov: now how hig entropy can *that* have?
dignork: entropy is lower to a gibberish of comparable length
jurov: they have the same entropy
benkay: memorability vs entropy
dignork: jurov, easy to remember, but entropy is low, a lot of buttins to punch, broken hands, loss of qualification, death
BingoBoingo: Form is opposed to entropy
BingoBoingo: Multivac: I am entropy
Multivac: You can't escape entropy BingoBoingo.
mircea_popescu: now how the hell does this work, entropy cheese ?
asciilifeform: afaik none of the '80s micros included a reasonably useful entropy source, with the possible exception of the 'commodore-64'
BingoBoingo: I kinda want an Apple II GS, i bet that can entropy without frying.
davout: "http://boingboing.net/2014/02/25/choosing-a-secure-password.html schneier misses xkcd's point entirely" <<< yep, someone should teach him about entropy
mircea_popescu: as the hash doesn't carry the entropy iirc.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/manmach.html
mircea_popescu: there's a slight difference between stat analysis and entropy measuring, but anyway
mircea_popescu: just impossible to verify entropy quality on tiny samples.
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, just 8 bytes, I need the best entropy i can reallistically get
mircea_popescu: each string has its own per-character entropy, from epsilon to 8-epsilon
mircea_popescu: http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/manmach.html
herbijudlestoids: soooo basically, everything fighting entropy in any form whatsoever is now analoguous to obama trying to kickstart the economy
mircea_popescu: http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/manmach.html moiety try that, see if you can get above 70% or so
mircea_popescu: thus therefore, infinite entropy.
mircea_popescu: well... in fact it DOES get you high quality entropy.
KRS|Gotyawallet: ;;tell jurov later just-dice user study completed..interesting results..time is a function of random number chosen, time passing increases entropy, next data gathering, will probably use perl