mircea_popescu: kakobrekla simple ban avoiding technique : make .lk account, link it to bitcointalk.org account
kakobrekla: not much of a gain just using org directly with moar accounts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15102 @ 0.00094639 = 14.2924 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but the political angle is important, that shit must die.
moiety: btctalk needs to become deleteable on the whole
mike_c: you are directly supporting bitcointalk by paying someone to create high quality posts there. seems contradictory.
tg2: lol, ltcponzi 700 ltc in 15 seconds
mircea_popescu: was looking for a way out for a while. reducing .org to the status of a lousy scrapper of .lk seems perfect.
mike_c: that cesspool hardly needs killing. it's already a wasteland.
mike_c: i think it is admirable to try to provide a path out of there through mpoe-pr, but if they don't want it..
mircea_popescu: one is that people generally are stupid. this, we knew going in, not a problem.
antephialtic: yes, I agree. Forum should have an entrance exam
mike_c: you can't have an entrance exam. everybody starts off stupid.
tg2: get crypto certified
mike_c: if you want to kill bitcointalk, you need to create a new forum. it will fill with retards eventually, but it would solve the second problem.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic the problem with any exam that doesn't also include a firing squad is that it creates a class of niggers.
antephialtic: on basic principles of bitcoin. to eliminate people who aren't capable of learning, and to make sure that people who get in aren't asking the most basic of questions
mike_c: and it can't be on b-a :) bad juju
cazalla: i dunno antephialtic, that seems a reasonable question to me for someone new to bitcoin
antephialtic: I'd rather have a forum for the 20% of competent people using bitcoin, than a wasteland for those unwilling or uncapable of learning
cazalla: how can they learn if they need to be learned to pass the exam prior to accessing the forum?
cazalla: all you really need to do is restrict post ability for 6-12 months
cazalla: oh ok, that makes sense then asciilifeform
antephialtic: no. I want smart/motivated individuals to be able to post right away
mike_c: you are describing b-a. study guide is the wiki.
antephialtic: b-a is great, but there is a lot of benefit to a threaded discussion format
pankkake: what about requiring referals?
BCB: is Andreas M. Antonopoulos a core dev?
BCB: antephialtic: why is he writing "Mastering Bitcoin" for 0'Reily
mike_c: mircea_popescu: was that shorthand for "that's what i'm doing with .lk"? i don't think that works, because the high quality content you influence to go to .lk also ends up in their forum. it's not competition.
cazalla: he's not even a media contact to much butthurt for him
nubbins`: pankkake: referrals? sounds like goat's forum
mircea_popescu: antephialtic there's a diference between clueless and stupid.
nubbins`: is it as depressing as the bicycle thieves?
nubbins`: good, 'cause that was a real downer
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: the clueless are redeemable so long as they educate themselves. the stupid are not capable of contributing useless discussion and should be left to rot on reddit
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: have you messed around with conformal's btcd?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00095224 = 20.3779 BTC [+]
ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings | Page 226 | Bitcointa.lk
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.04687499 = 0.2344 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.05560028 = 0.278 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.10144642 = 0.2029 BTC [-]
mike_c: lol. awesome response.
pankkake: "MPOE-PR perma-banned. His only option to get his account back is an appeal to theymos."
ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum.
mircea_popescu: i guess we're going to tune in to .lk for further mpoe-pr posts.
ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum.
antephialtic: honestly speaking, mpoe-pr is pretty inflammatory, but speaks the truth
kakobrekla: i guess you all will be wearing shoelacesless shoes by t he conference.
antephialtic: unfortunate that the forum users fail to see that
tg2: yes IP bans are effective obv
mike_c: so someone creates a thread to get herp banned, and that dipshit bans mpoe-pr instead. classic forum.
tg2: why couldn't the otc/vouch system work for a forum?
tg2: you have to get invited by a member with positive rep
mircea_popescu: it's pretty much the system that sunk -otc into irrelevancy, so...
nubbins`: tg2: that's what goat did with his forum
tg2: the general public is pretty dumb
tg2: it never amazes me at the success of the most blatant scams
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: cryptocrypt.org
mircea_popescu: anyway, i had a forum on the old polimedia domain, same principle, also pretty dead.
nubbins`: i was thinking in terms of "u wot m8"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9498 @ 0.00095096 = 9.0322 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: anyway, membership in the forum is by invite only, and i think being rude gets you banned or something
tg2: we had a car enthousaist forum that had a "premium" section where members could pay and had to be invited to do so
tg2: it was pretty elite compared to the general scrubbery
tg2: sort of a one-way-glass type affair
mircea_popescu: honestly i don't see why .lk can't be used for exactly this purpose.
nubbins`: gigposters.com forums have a "premium membership" option for $20/year
nubbins`: you get access to a special subforum where people post plans for diy equipment
mike_c: 50 people posting on bitcointa.lk is not going to kill btctalk.org.
nubbins`: and if you ask too many questions without VIP, people shame you and stop answering ;(
mircea_popescu: i personally don't think there's any value in the forum format, but hey.
mike_c: 50 people posting exclusively on a forum could draw traffic, but i don't believe it works when the content is forwarded to the competition.
mike_c: it would be like if quora sent all their posts to yahoo answers.
mike_c: even that would be better, because at least quora wouldn't have all the shit. but bitcointa.lk does have all the shit too!
mike_c: it's like shit with a sprinkling of honey. i would bitbet this but it's not definable.
BingoBoingo: I really don't see the point of cross posting to the Thermos forum, if the aim is killing the pretense of its relevance
ThickAsThieves: they have no good reason to ban people that are consistently right and alienated just because people wanna be delusional
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.00094789 = 24.7873 BTC [-]
artifexd: I was shocked to find posts by you. Granted, they were a few years ago. But still...
mike_c: everybody starts a newbie (except ascii)
ozbot: Latest posts of: Mircea Popescu
artifexd: As it is not provably you, I can only accept your word and sit back down, corrected and humble.
ThickAsThieves: well, so I got on my soapbox before saying fuck you, oh well
mike_c: hah. perhaps in another year.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla your forum wordmixer gave mpoe-pr a small heart attack lol
ThickAsThieves: really without mpoe-pr and friends, what's left there anyway?
ThickAsThieves: "bitcoinmagazine.com wants to use your computer's location Allow Deny"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10942 @ 0.00013798 = 1.5098 BTC [+] {8}
ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum. | Bitcointa.lk
mircea_popescu: is this guy actually gmaxwell or just similarly spineless ?
BingoBoingo: Well, maybe there is some simple minded psychotic disease passing through people who think they moderate important parts of bitcoin infrastructure that just suck. And this disease is spread through fucking gmaxwell
mircea_popescu: antephialtic not rly hate, but for the usual reason neckbeads fail to make it in human society.
antephialtic: ah, I have to admit I enjoy his opinions on cryptography related matters.
BingoBoingo: This stuff really pops up in most internet fora where the operators develop a pretense of importance and being cereal.
mircea_popescu: neckbeard = 30something male with poor hygiene, lack of socialisation and a monitor tan
mircea_popescu: antephialtic most neckbeards make excellent worhorses. doesn't mean anyone would want them i nthe house.
antephialtic: a friend of mine works in the same building as stallman. says he does all kinds of weird shit in the office
antephialtic: but rms is a greybeard. a neckbeard who is respected widely for technical contributions
mircea_popescu: there's a deep understanding of what humanity is all about, that someone as fucking weird as dostoievski could exhibit nevertheless
ozbot: [ANN] Litecoin [LTC] X11 hardfork at block 564,480 | Bitcointa.lk
pankkake: interesting experiment though - how could a hostile hardfork be received in bitcoin
antephialtic: I think forking the chain is interesting, would give a lot of incentive for miners and users to switch if the tech was actually better
antephialtic: dogecoin has intentionally forked at least once to switch the block reward algo
mircea_popescu: a hardfork is a major event, but definitely not impossible.
antephialtic: but with bitcoin it would be a lot more dangerous as many merchants would get scammed while their were still multiple viable forks
antephialtic: would be very damaging to trust unless it was done extremely carefully
mircea_popescu: Hardforking BTC and LTC to X11 would be pretty awesome.
mircea_popescu: And it would be a great way to stick it to the mega banker elite class who invested billions in Asic hardware.
mircea_popescu: Wtf is the point of crypto if a bank can simply mine all the coins themselves, the entire point of crypto was to get away from elitist bankers
mircea_popescu: antephialtic how exactly would the merchants be scammed ?
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: you send them coins while they are still on the old chain
mircea_popescu: a hard fork is a political event. they get the old chain coins they chose.
antephialtic: yes, but many merchants don't know much about how bitcoin works
mircea_popescu: since the fork will NEVER resolve, tyhere's no scamming.
antephialtic: yes, but bad for everyone if less merchants accept it because they lose trust in the tech
mircea_popescu: when people go to war, they couldn't care less about foreign markets or whatever the fuck.
antephialtic: also, the chain with the asics will have much better network security than the new X11 chain, so many rational merchants would stay
mircea_popescu: We have not come across a proof of work algorithm that is truly ASIC-proof and quick to verify. All alternatives will only delay the problem, and at a considerable cost.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform give them a decade. reading these logs is slow work.
antephialtic: asciilifeform: what are the characteristics of a cellular automaton PoW that make it resistant to an ASIC implementation?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38200 @ 0.00094634 = 36.1502 BTC [-] {3}
antephialtic: hah. If you want to require disk, you can do proof-of-storage instead of PoW
mircea_popescu: there is the problem. it's all trying to somehow build equality out of technology.
mircea_popescu: cryptocoins are here to bring inequality back to its proper size
antephialtic: I don't think cryptocoins will make the world any more egalitarian. Probably less so, as their widespread use would deny the state a lot of tax revenue
antephialtic: but I think that is inevitable, and if it is going to happen, I'd rather end up at the top instead of getting crushed in the transition
mircea_popescu: antephialtic but the whole argument behind scrypt,. and behind asic-resistence, and all that jazz is "other people than us have better resources and are being rewarded for this."
antephialtic: and to that I say, that's just how the world works
mircea_popescu: it's pure jealousy, and well... that's not part of the laws of nature.
mircea_popescu: pankkake not altcoins, but teh people bitching about how other people are eating "their" share of the pie are.
pankkake: yeah, I've seen that in people praising Bernankoin without getting it
mircea_popescu: antephialtic seems just a rehash of older material really.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00094602 = 4.4463 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Austerity measures will have taken the route of unprecedented and radical decimation of the state - everything from state provided healthcare to coastguards to income support to education will be practically gone replaced with numerous forms of bitcoin based insurance."
mircea_popescu: idiot b;logger.com. was gonna leave the guy a reply, but a well.
antephialtic: mp: talk to him on twitter, he's pretty active
antephialtic: pankakke: the solution to fixing bitcoin is not to make it more complex. that just increases the inertia of having multiple compatible implementations
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27002 @ 0.00094491 = 25.5145 BTC [-] {3}
pankkake: antephialtic: that's why I said last two paragraphs ;)
ozbot: Bitcoin and the poor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ozbot: The politics of Bitcoin pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
KRS-One presses random buttons on ozbot.
ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 837 blocks | Estimated Change: 15.2493% in 4d 22h 8m 25s
antephialtic: will be interested to see you two fight it out on twitter. his opinions (on politics at least) seem to be the polar opposite of yours
antephialtic: his recipe for how the government could "fix" bitcoin
antephialtic: his thoughts: "Now, whilst some might welcome the reduction in the state caused by a loss of taxation, the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility. The laissez faire economic system is an extreme mindset of some of the more ardent supporters of Freidmanism and the Chicago School. There is no basis for assuming a beneficial society can be created without the state and in all likelihood i
antephialtic: t'll lead to a future consolidation of wealth, extremely low levels of social mobility and weak economic performance compared to countries that use a more mixed method. From a competition viewpoint this is not a good position."
MisterE: when was the last time a government "fixed" anything?
antephialtic: well, inventing the ARPAnet was one kind of cool thing
MisterE: Like lawyers and consultants they thrive on problems not on solving them heh
MisterE: ok I'll concede arpanet :)
MisterE: well the were nice but are fallig apart now
MisterE: those grades are the most vluable though
MisterE: can be repaved or whatever
mircea_popescu: ahahaha diablo 3 apparently still thinks it exists, made update, costs 40 bux
antephialtic: regardless of your thoughts on welfare, with regards to science their are many avenues of basic research that cannot be justified from a pure ROI standpoint yet have long term benefits to technological advancement. Such as the development of pure mathematics, etcetra
antephialtic: hard to see how such pursuits would be funded without a system of universities (and thereby the state that funds it)
MisterE: I wish when government funded that kind of research the first priority was not always to weaponize it if possible
MisterE: you need a state with a surplus to do that too
mircea_popescu: antephialtic if you think the welfare state did anything for the advancement of pure mathematics...
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: not the welfare state, but the state, certainly
MisterE: the other thing about the 'intangible benefits' of research and exploration is that it inspires and this is so very much lacking in todays youth. When we were walking on the moon people were amazed and wanted to be engineers, nothing like that now. The biggest value to come out of the Apollo project was the increased interest in science.
mircea_popescu: not that people can't rehash the ancient arguments re the importance of the church and present them de novo in favour of the state.
MisterE: hunger inspires looking for food, not looking toward the stars heh
mircea_popescu: nothing really, all the overfed know of hunger is their terror.
MisterE: nothing other than being a space enthusiast
MisterE: this topic comes up regularly in #space
mircea_popescu: what i dislike is a bunch of fucktards going around with money that isn't theirs, muddying things up.
mike_c: omg. the log is remapping pathways in my brain. it's making me dyslexic.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic well your friend won't irc and i'm not about to argue with anyone on twitter, so i guess that's that.
MisterE: Blogging is one thing and quick tweets are easy too but defending your positions in real time is another animal many are not prepared for.
MisterE: I've always been an IMer so prefer it
antephialtic: agreed. additionally Many do not prefer to enter a potentially compromising conversation when the medium is written
antephialtic: if things go badly, the evidence will be everlasting
kakobrekla: anyway, just add ?stopitkako if you really need a clean log nao.
MisterE: oh yea, let the fooling begin!
mike_c: now do one on bitbet where all the weights flip!
ThickAsThieves: i enjoyed the garble, was a nice surprise reading logs on tablet
ThickAsThieves: these forum people now think my account was compromised
MisterE: lol just saw it great work kakobrekla :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform people have peculiar interactions with the voices in their heads. it leads to fascinating conclusions.
ozbot: History and the Security of Property
ThickAsThieves: but i suspect the powers that be will pummel him into mediocrity
MisterE: probably samples of unreleased studio stuff
decimation: guys someone who writes like dotcoin has hacked the log server and raped the logs!!!
MisterE: indeed been around for a long time
MisterE: 2Pac and BIG all had multiple albums after death
MisterE: but 2_ac had actually laid down the tracks in a premonition of his upcoming death he went on a recording binge
MisterE: Wonder if he recalls making it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00094463 = 14.3584 BTC [-]
ozbot: Lithuania bans Russian TV station over 'lies'
pankkake: funny stuff, I was reading /r/thewalkingdead when they switched on the thing
diametric: mircea_popescu: reddit's not owned by cn anymore
diametric: as of august 2012 if I remember correctly
diametric: Though, CN's parent company still holds a significant portion of shares they're independently owned
diametric: Maybe so, I vaguely remember at the time of it happening a lot of organization changes took place but its been a while now.
mircea_popescu: "Charlie Shrem, known for his alleged involvement in the Silk Road scandal, is in talks with US prosecutors for a plea bargain."
mircea_popescu: "According to a March 28th filing in Manhattan federal court, Assistant U.S. Attorney Serrin Turner has asked for the 24-year-old Shrem’s case to be postponed until April 28th."
antephialtic: well the other guy, BTCKing is definitely the bigger prize for the state since he was actually laundering SR money
antephialtic: Shrem was just being used, and too negligent to realize
MisterE: oh I thought BTCKing was done in
MisterE: the whole gaggle of them are retarded and deserve what they get
mircea_popescu: he's in his 20s. thermos too. most of them are too young for this shit rly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30811 @ 0.00094837 = 29.2202 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: Wong would mock those who use microscopes as hammers; his sophistocated set only use bespoke polished turds
ozbot: White Collar Fraud: Update on Bitcoin Money Laundering Case: Both Defendants Are Talking to the Feds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48526 @ 0.00094378 = 45.7979 BTC [-] {5}
decimation: Your link on trilema had me laughing for a few hours
decimation: ANDREESSEN: One of the characteristics of a new idea is all the experts who came up in the old regime look at it and laugh...Almost exactly 300 years ago, a Scottish economist, ironically, named John Law basically invented at the time this crazy idea of paper currency or fiat currency. ... And every economist on the planet 300 years ago thought that he was a complete lunatic. And so I think this is just the story, the recurring story of how
decimation: Except, anyone who takes bitcoin seriously would also think that John Law is a lunatic
mircea_popescu: the problem with paper money run by a government is exactly the same as the problem with a bitcoin run by government.
decimation: it sounds like trying to grasp both poles of a contradiction
decimation: it seems like it's not possible for bitcoin to be run by a government
decimation: assuming some level of permability in cross-border communications
mircea_popescu: im sure when law was writing it wasn't directly obvious that the thing'll end up as a welfare scam either.
mircea_popescu: that aside, obviously the technology is better, crypto chain > paper issuance.
mircea_popescu: but in the same sense the tech of a pistol is better than the tech of a sword.
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with either of the two, up until they're being brandished by a thief.
decimation: if bitcoin is the new Venice, will not bitcoin also eventually form its own customs and laws, like Venice?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6169998 BTC [-]
MisterE: at the time though paper was an technology upgrade to other mediums of exchange
MisterE: so reasonable historically
mircea_popescu: MisterE the best part is this : at the time, if i told a proponent that "govt will just monopolize it" he'd just have loled at me. "what are you talking about, ANYONE CAN ISSUE PAPER"
mircea_popescu: it didn't last so long, and of course for "very good reasons" (tm)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 27 @ 0.10144642 = 2.7391 BTC [-]
MisterE: bitcoin comes with checks and balances built-in and can be upgraded
decimation: meanwhile, the NY state regulator on bitcoin (from my link): LAWSKY: Yes, and I think my understanding and it was really from the day-two testimony when I asked that question again about programmable currency that that is one of the things that potentially you could have with the color coding. They also gave an example of a young person whose parents want to give them an allowance but want to make sure that it goes for certain things and not
MisterE: there's no built-in check to the amount of fiat that can be created though
mircea_popescu: MisterE in the same sense there's no built in check to the number of alt coins that can be created
MisterE: as fiat was an improvement over exchanging chickens and goats I guess
MisterE: I generally dont give alt coins much creedance but that may be a mistake
MisterE: no reason to say BTC will be the one that "wins"
mircea_popescu: but anyway, tis late. we'll continue... tomorrow. which is another day.
chetty: MisterE: bitcoin comes with checks and balances built-in and can be upgraded//like the US constitution
MisterE: yea problem there is no one has gotten of their ass and upgraded the constitution forever
chetty: all good ideas get hijacked eventually. we just try to make best use of the window
VanCleef: seedcoin is a massive scam i suspect
assbot: [HAVELOCK:SMG] 1D: 0.00007023 / 7.616E-5 / 0.00008000 (510 shares, 0.03884221 BTC), 7D: 0.00007023 / 8.449E-5 / 0.00009410 (6072 shares, 0.51303206 BTC), 30D: 0.00007023 / 8.993E-5 / 0.00012600 (17596 shares, 1.58233780 BTC)
Mats_cd03: anyone have a link to the chart of bitcoin holders in the world
Mats_cd03: it has something about n numbers of holders having xx% of the holdings
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00094254 = 13.3841 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: oh yeah i forgot to say, take that doctor forehead.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00094283 = 11.2197 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26800 @ 0.00094237 = 25.2555 BTC [-] {3}
[\]: so should I get more popcorn?
BingoBoingo: Well, bitcointa.lk overtook itcointalk.org in officialness. Shrem and Failla are racing to negotiate with prosecutors first.
ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum. | Page 2 | Bitcointa.lk
BingoBoingo: Apparently Maged thinks the MPOE-PR account was sold or hacked.
[\]: I agree with ThickAsThieves
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.00094384 = 36.0075 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.00578608 = 0.1504 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00094573 = 24.3998 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0639885 = 0.3199 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1750 @ 0.00094422 = 1.6524 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18823 @ 0.00094211 = 17.7333 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.0561202 = 0.5612 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91394 @ 0.00094175 = 86.0703 BTC [-] {2}
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 482.0, vol: 19190.41597174 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 480.327, vol: 12406.03391 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 483.4699, vol: 15193.3086536 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 488.82, vol: 79.07079047 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 462.818096, vol: 4623.65040000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 491.40023, vol: 16.68824773 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 478.5824, vol: 128.77578004 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
moiety: BB :D hihi how was your weekend?
moiety: BingoBoingo: glad to hear it :) how epic are the logs?!
ozbot: DVRs Used To Attack Synology Disk Stations and Mine Bitcoin - Slashdot
moiety: lolol "also run a bitcoin miner"
cads2: I failed to be able to explain to my romanian cousin the notion of "nerd"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 1333 @ 0.0075 = 9.9975 BTC [+]
cads2: she couldn't connect the idea of someone really smart with the image of someone really socially inept
cads2: I wonder if in romania nerds simply fail to be socially inept
cads2: yes romanian nerds will hack some shit, but we'll also take some shots, snort some blow, and play with some women.
cads2: probably concurrently.
moiety: BingoBoingo: the disappearing blogger returned again, this time to hang around and wondered where you hung around but thinks this is a bit much for him. sends his regards though
moiety: yeah baby #2 on the way!
moiety: saving doge for college funds lol
moiety: i never thought id see the day
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0075 = 0.375 BTC [+]
MisterE: BTCe doin a little April 1 funny
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.06402567 = 0.8964 BTC [+]
moiety: cant be as good as here MisterE
MisterE is jumping out at 497 to book $50 profit :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00094422 = 10.1032 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00094274 = 30.3091 BTC [-] {2}
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 482.28, Best ask: 482.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.71000, Last trade: 482.28, 24 hour volume: 22454.41465420, 24 hour low: 440.27, 24 hour high: 509.98, 24 hour vwap: 467.584036352
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95150 @ 0.00094637 = 90.0471 BTC [+] {6}
gribble: (premium <market1> <market2>) -- Calculate the premium of market1 over market2, using last trade price. Uses USD exchange rate. If USD is not traded on one of the target markets, queries currency conversion from google.
gribble: (premium <market1> <market2>) -- Calculate the premium of market1 over market2, using last trade price. Uses USD exchange rate. If USD is not traded on one of the target markets, queries currency conversion from google.
gribble: Premium of BTC-E over Bitstamp is currently 0.945137618451 %.
gribble: Error: This is not one of the supported markets. Please choose one of ['bcent', 'btcn', 'coinbase', 'cbx', 'bitmynt', 'btsp', 'btcavg', 'krk', 'btcde', 'btce', 'bfx'].
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00094795 = 7.2992 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13994 @ 0.00094124 = 13.1717 BTC [-] {2}
jadne: chetty: so terrible
jadne: hardly even counts as trying
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00094055 = 20.4099 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.0025 / 0.0025 / 0.0025 (432 shares, 1.08 BTC), 30D: 0.0019005 / 0.00214608 / 0.0025 (3831 shares, 8.22 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31328 @ 0.00094936 = 29.7416 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06597999 = 0.132 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 65 @ 0.00578757 = 0.3762 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05739958 = 0.1148 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0075 = 0.375 BTC [+]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 476.99, Best ask: 479.0, Bid-ask spread: 2.01000, Last trade: 479.0, 24 hour volume: 24191.52407663, 24 hour low: 446.02, 24 hour high: 509.98, 24 hour vwap: 470.685034162
nubbins`: i'm waiting for mother nature to pop out and say APRIL FOOLS LELELEL
nubbins`: one of the biggest mistakes ever was referring to man-made climate change as such
mircea_popescu: i suspect one of the biggest mistakes ever would be to try and rescue the stupidity of global warming by semantics.
mircea_popescu: except you know, they are "professional" and thus fail to communicate.
antephialtic: they had a security issue that allowed user accounts to be enumerated, and I suspect that is the problem, that scammers are trying to combine that with fake info and sell as a real dump
antephialtic: but the hacker also has names associated with accounts
antephialtic: and offered to give password hash + last 4 digits of credit card if I pm'd him my email (which I didn't)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12922 @ 0.00095014 = 12.2777 BTC [+]
nubbins`: someone shared this in -otc earlier
ozbot: ,-----. ,--. - Pastebin.com
antephialtic: I don't have any funds in coinbase, but they are a major point of centralization
jurov: well, i'm looking how will mircea call it when when half of oceania finally drowns
jurov: prolly he'll just call them stupid and move on
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: that is the aformentioned user email enumeration issue
nubbins`: don't i just feel silly for shovelling a walking path down the middle of my street
mircea_popescu: jurov half of "oceania" is what exactly, some islands ?
antephialtic: the hackers claim to have actually pwned coinbase
jurov: oceania are islnds by definition
mircea_popescu: jurov just saying, i called it stupid and moved on when i was about 9
jurov: ah "not a thing"... another mp's canned reply
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform forwarded you some mile long email, mostly because i have no consideration for your time apparently.
mircea_popescu: but also because who knows, could be a comedy goldmine.
mircea_popescu: jurov no but seriously, what, some coral reefs ? some volcanic islands a mile wide ? this is something someone should care about ?
antephialtic: anyways, its just alarming because the full name stuff is apparently real and doesn't seem possible to have been acquired by the email enumeration attack
mircea_popescu: as someone said, when therer's a cockroach in plain sight, that's never the only cockroach around.
antephialtic: yeah I suppose they could have just used the emails to google for the names and then released that as a "partial dump"
antephialtic: when all they really had was the emails, and they were trying to get some idiot to buy their fake dump
ozbot: Sea Level Trends - NOAA Tides & Currents
mircea_popescu: they also released the known but apparently not widely known fact that coinbase is forwarding all tx history to teh us alphabet soup on a daily basis.
jurov: here the north sees sea level going down because glaciers melt and earth goes up because of reduced weight
jurov: but in tropics, everyone who lives in few meters above seal level is going to have problem sooner or later
nubbins`: trying to make the best of this april 1, the weather isn't helping
antephialtic: mp: yeah the hacker claimed to have found a file on their server called "compliance_dailysftp.rb" that uploaded a daily dump to IRS/FinCEN/FBI
mircea_popescu: jurov everyone is going to have problems sooner or later anyway. that's the definition of problems.
antephialtic: I asked them to pastebin it, then the guy told me to fuck off :)
mircea_popescu: antephialtic there's reasons we don't trust coinbase after all.
antephialtic: the only credible thing about that was that it is known their site is implemented in ruby on rails
jurov: as long as the problem don't cause mass migrations, it's fine
mircea_popescu: jurov well mass migrations out of oceania seems to be against your definition of oceania
mircea_popescu: mass migrations out of the tropics have been a thing since the 50s
jurov: southeast asia will be the next
mircea_popescu: because the tropics suck ass, because they had run a welfare system for centuries.
nubbins`: i, for one, am looking forward to warmer summers, if not a drastic increase in the price of food
jurov: nubbins`: you forgot to draw welfare/socialist button
nubbins`: jurov i wanted to strike while the iron was hot ;(
nubbins`: i even forgot the "global warming" button
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.04463333 = 0.2678 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: nubbins` ya srsly, how about you make a much bigger board ? this topic deserves some attention
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.05560027 = 0.1668 BTC [-]
nubbins`: anyway, re: global warming, what are ya, michael crichton? ;p
nubbins`: read his book "state of fear", you'd love it
nubbins`: he wrote jurassic park, among others
ozbot: State of Fear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
nubbins`: "Most climate scientists dispute Crichton's science as being error-filled and distorted,[1][2][3][4][5][6] and it was described as "pure porn for global warming deniers" by one skeptical science journalist. [7]"
mircea_popescu: anyway. me leling at the pseudoscience of others does not promote me to the rank of pseudoscience author.
nubbins`: crichton was interesting in that he's the only novelist i can think of who included a lengthy bibliography in each book
nubbins`: "In March 2006, [journalist Michael] Crowley wrote a strongly critical review of State of Fear, focusing on Crichton's stance on global warming. In the same year, Crichton published the novel Next, which contains a minor character named "Mick Crowley", who is a Yale graduate and a Washington D.C.based political columnist. The character was portrayed as a child molester with a small penis. The
nubbins`: character does not appear elsewhere in the book."
nubbins`: anyway, lels aside, he wrote good fiction. his early stuff -- the andromeda strain, the terminal man, the great train robbery, eaters of the dead, congo... all good
nubbins`: almost all of his novels were eventually made into shitty movies, ghosts of their former selves
mircea_popescu: not anymore than you have to be "professional" on tardstalk or w/e.
nubbins`: you don't HAVE TO write your critics into subsequent novels as micro-dick diddlers either :D
nubbins`: ^ is that a button or a switch? ;D
antephialtic: surrealist fiction. highly enjoyable. I recommend the Land of Laughs
antephialtic: its a bit sentimental for the crypto-anarchist type, but I enjoy it nonetheless
mircea_popescu: kinda looking forward to a full edition mp space cadet kbd.
nubbins`: antephialtic: as someone who's into g.g. marquez, i don't mind sentimentalism or surrealism ;D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 89 @ 0.0055011 = 0.4896 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: snowplow just came and pushed the contents of the street back onto my front step. gotta get back outside
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 75 @ 0.0058419 = 0.4381 BTC [+] {2}
antephialtic: random question: anyone ever tried to reset satoshi's email password before? only required info is birthdate
antephialtic: i doubt he was dumb enough to leave any identifying info there, but it would be interesting nonetheless
antephialtic: i've tried before, but after 3 (uninformed) guesses, the account got temporarily locked. Seems pretty reasonable to do over a long period of time (assuming gmx isn't smart enough to stop it)
antephialtic: it would probably be easier to just bribe a gmx employee
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.61754 = 1.2351 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin difficulty to fall
ozbot: Covered California Sends Deaf Callers To Hotline Offering ‘Hot Ladies’ « CBS Sacramento
antephialtic: man, israel just owns the US. How is it that Israel and Palestine are the ones in conflict, yet, the US is making concessions??
ozbot: MPOE, March 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
antephialtic: this is analogous to the judge allowing Charlie Shrem to bang his daughter in exchange for him accepting a plea bargain
jurov: mpoe-pr no more????
chetty: Kerry want to claim he made mideast peace
mircea_popescu: antephialtic no, it's much more like the judge allowing the two unkempt youths fuck his teenaged daughter in exchange of not having his car all scratched up.
pLambert: does she still get paid even though she got banned?
mircea_popescu: what am i going to do, run mr scrooge's offices over here ?
pLambert: Isn't that how you get rich, byy acting like scrooge? ;)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 28 @ 0.00415917 = 0.1165 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00714000 / 0.00749986 / 0.00750000 (15688 shares, 117.65784000 BTC), 7D: 0.00525030 / 0.00721312 / 0.00750000 (20401 shares, 147.15492901 BTC), 30D: 0.00510111 / 0.0061131 / 0.00900001 (61828 shares, 377.96051440 BTC)
mircea_popescu: ColdHardMetal always a risky proposition, bitcoin divestment for fiat. who knows, maybe in a decade i live to regret it :p
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0009404 / 0.0009483 / 0.00095556 (1585392 shares, 1,503.43 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094386 / 0.00095875 (6748749 shares, 6,369.90 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087539 / 0.00096 (29415142 shares, 25,749.77 BTC)
jurov: ⚠ URGENT: Сoinbase hacked. We just sent you a request to pay 999999.99999999 BTC (worth €354,414,446.99 EUR) using Coinbase.
jurov: Click here to sign in and complete this payment LOLOLOLOL
jurov: funniest scam i have seen recently
mircea_popescu: it is a scam, obviously. it's not without coinbase's involvement tho, which is what i mean. htey're using the same infrastructure a legit merchant would be using.
moiety: i thought it was an april fools thing because of the ridiculously high numbers
jurov: moiety and you clicked, just for fun?
moiety: i dont use coinbase lol someone showed me what they got
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21029 @ 0.0009404 = 19.7757 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: twitter's been going pretty nuts over my repaste there.
moiety: tweeter? i havent been today yet
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.064 = 0.128 BTC [-]
jurov: i received exactly the text i pasted (minus the trailing LOLOLOL)
cazalla: "Coinbase provides your full transaction history to the FBI, FinCEN and IRS every day. They are under a gag order."
VanCleef: thats pretty messed up if true
cazalla: mircea_popescu: it was on front page of /r/bitcoin
cazalla: maybe someone is just taking advantage of the leaked emails to spread more bullshit
mircea_popescu: there's a reason we don't trust the bitcoin scam foundation bunch.
ozbot: 0bin - encrypted pastebin
cazalla: ah, nubbins` already posted it, mb
ThickAsThieves: they were so scared people would think it was real they put hack in the subject of the email
ThickAsThieves: the point of April Fools is for the target to think it's real
VanCleef: well 10 chinese bitcoiners did get executed today by the chinese gov, i don't think they're laughing
cazalla: VanCleef: I googled that - chinese bitcoiners executed, first result is a laugh
cazalla: "Bitcoiners prefer finance and kindles to sex"
ozbot: Hyper Speed Vertical Train Hub proposed for New York and London | Mail Online
jurov: the illustrations with the birds...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.0009405 = 8.9818 BTC [+]
moiety: ThickAsThieves: i thought as much because of the emails and the fact all the amounts were so stupidly high
ThickAsThieves: question, why are US capital gains tax tiers gated by the one-year term? and is it appropriate to apply such to bitcoin under those reasons.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11864 @ 0.00094407 = 11.2004 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: i assume it's to promote longer terms of invetsment, but is that to benefit the dollar itself, or to promote longer-term invetsments in the economy of the country?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you really must ask a tax accountant that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00094039 = 9.4979 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: my own guess would be that it's one of those quirks that end up in legislation of dual party systems
mircea_popescu: ie, some nonsense both sides were too tired and too tied down other places to argue
antephialtic: as you said, its to incentivize long term investment over short term speculation
ThickAsThieves: wow i thought youd have the usual make-me-feel-like-an-idiot answer
nubbins`: you are [an idiot/wasting my time/first against the wall when i am king]
antephialtic: because old people who vote tend to buy and hold over the long term. but uncle sam wants some of those sweet profits from the prop traders on wall street
antephialtic: and as a form of social engineering to make the capital markets more stable
mircea_popescu: sooo.... someone just sent a 2btc donation to mah trilema credits address ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` no, more like "if you throw this the op feels like an idiot"
nubbins`: TBH "bitcoin is here to cum" might be my favourite
the20year2: Major news : Berkshire hathaway acquires RENT.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00094465 = 33.8185 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: nubbins` do you have a @twitter or too hipster for THAT too, in adition to atc ?
ozbot: JK (jon_keefe) on Twitter
mircea_popescu: MPOE-PR : "whai are you a muffin of pubic hair with a sausage finger?!"
mircea_popescu: the obvious answer being, "because that's what nubbins` makes : sausages"
nubbins`: why is mpoe-pr a muffin of pubic hair with a sausage finger?
mircea_popescu: the log's even better : mircea_popescu: a hair MPOE-PR you "whai : are of sausage a finger?!" pubic with muffin
mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu: makes nubbins` that's : being, obvious answer sausages" "because the what
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
locksmith: dude my girlfriend's sitting 1 inch from me
nubbins`: better stop clicking links then
nubbins`: 14:22:51locksmith:inch from me sitting dude my girlfriend's 1
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 19 @ 0.61995572 = 11.7792 BTC [+] {5}
locksmith: just read the article as well, I can translate it for anyone interested
locksmith: yep. (it's saying stuff discussed over at btctalk but whatever)
locksmith: title: "NeoBee ceo nowhere to be found"
locksmith: - trading of company's stock halted
ozbot: imgur: the simple imgur blog
mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be ironic if neobee ends up getting more press for free now than they got back when they were paying for it ?
locksmith: they're saying that them (newsit.com,cy) as well as Politis newspaper tried to contact the company and could not get ahodl of them
novusordo: "Coinbase provides your full transaction history to the FBI, FinCEN and IRS every day. They are under a gag order."
antephialtic: TaT: do you actually know why the shares stopped trading?
locksmith: also the article goes on and on wondering how many people danny took money from
locksmith: and then just translates bits and pieces from the coindesk article
mircea_popescu: locksmith hopefully they don't keep on with this or else maged might ban newsit.com.cy
locksmith: including danny's supposed "quote"
mircea_popescu: antephialtic my own theory, as a completely uninvolved observer, is this :
mircea_popescu: havelock is under a lot of pressure because all their scammy assets are turning into a visible loss, so rather than man up to it they prefer to simply close trading as the bubbles pop.
VanCleef: i think havelock will close down sometime this year
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18240 @ 0.00094769 = 17.2859 BTC [+] {3}
ThickAsThieves: Neo compliance officer did make a formal recommendation to halt
locksmith: I'm an uninvolved observer as well but have 2 individual sources within Neo. the hard truth is that for the past week the employees could not get ahold of DB, and their paychecks will probably not be met for the month of March (they haven't been paid yet from what I know)
ozbot: BitBet - And Then There Was One
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves locksmith these things seem a little contradictory.
antephialtic: locksmith, seems like a very elaborate scam, no? why not just steal all the money after the IPO, why go to all the trouble of building a storefront and advertising, etc.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic i dunno that scam was ever seriously argued other than as a technicality.
antephialtic: and MP, that explains the trading freeze, not the disappearance of the CEO
antephialtic: regardless of the tradeing being stopped, surely a competent/engaged CEO would have issued a statement to reassure investors?
locksmith: I haven't called scam. all I'm saying is that they got to a point where they can't pay back their creditors. i.e. they owe over 150,000 euros to their marketing/pr firm Telia & Pavla BBDO
ozbot: A new forum or board is required : neobee
antephialtic: just sayin, whatever the issue is, it isn't solely with havelock
jurov: ^ just posted clear example
jurov: yes, neobee causing bitcoin to soar
locksmith: also, something not said anywhere else: danny announced to his employees on thursday the 13th that he was left in his wallet with 100btc while someone overlooked into his pc and saw a bitstamp account with WAY more than that
lewicki: breaking the bitstamp 2fa is no small feet...
locksmith: I wouldn't be surprised if he was also deep into the karpeles thing, he was looking into a flight to go to japan from cyprus through dubai and couldn't find connecting flights at dubai
locksmith: lewicki - his account was locked in and someone saw it when danny was still on his pc
locksmith: all this are rumours of course, just to keep us entertained as the tower crumbles.
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00094007 / 0.00094763 / 0.00095556 (1579375 shares, 1,496.67 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094377 / 0.00095875 (6788064 shares, 6,406.40 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087566 / 0.00096 (29481818 shares, 25,816.18 BTC)
mircea_popescu: locksmith well sure, the guy kept trying to buy relevancy, first with his clueless stumble into the bf thing, then probably derping around mtgox,
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06687999 = 0.2006 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well originally it was ok, so moving over to .lk, but then she was like listen, can i have some time off nao ?
jurov: yes, she deserves. and yes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 77 @ 0.00162119 = 0.1248 BTC [-] {13}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34528 @ 0.00094967 = 32.7902 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell cads no, it's not that romanian nerds fail to be socially inept. is that romanian teenage queens fail to be socially apt, and so the nerds have no contrasting background to stand out against.
moiety: lolol! no i was passing on news about someone else, mircea_popescu XD
chetty: only problem is - it is not a joke :(
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the part i don't understand are the bottom left buttons. an d and an a ? whay ?
moiety: "making them a scapegoat" - thought thats one of the reasons for having kids?
nubbins`: 'cause you're always saying "a a now i get it" or "o"
nubbins`: as someone who grew up with these words being spelled "ah" and "oh", respectively, this always struck me as quaint
mike_c: btcalpha accountants say: mpoe march revenue should be 180.37141356, not 139.62178334
mircea_popescu: well my a is an ah, but my o isn't really an oh. much more acute.
moiety: i grew up with it spelt oh but i keep typing o since coming here lol
mircea_popescu: nubbins` did i ever tell you about that one time i had to do it ?
ozbot: Does Mt.Gox's CEO Have a Secret History of Committing Fraud?
moiety: my friend dug out a race track for his dog in his garden
mircea_popescu: davout / pankkake what'd be your english rendition of "souricière" ?
mircea_popescu: is it the lock-up in the police station where they keep people pre-warrant ?
mircea_popescu: you'd think, you know, for some progressive libtards wearing no bras because their mothers burned them in paris in 68
ozbot: Does Mt.Gox's CEO Have a Secret History of Committing Fraud?
davout: yes, they got the souricière thing wrong
davout: it doesn't refer to entrapment but more to the cell itself
mircea_popescu: "The Bitcoin community will surely learn a number of lessons from the Mt. Gox disaster, and here is a simple one: when investing in Bitcoin, make sure the guy you're trusting with your money doesn't have a secret past committing fraud. Even if that means finding someone who knows French."
davout: yes, the bitcoin community totally has a history of learning from lessons
ozbot: Gawker Sucks: Hey Jordan Sargent: Fix your article
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06689832 = 0.4014 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: lol that's like "make sure you don't disclose anything to secret agent"
ozbot: Is it possible the person selling those shares was Danny Brewster? : neobee
ozbot: JuicyGrabs comments on Neo & Bee employees unpaid and unable to contact CEO @BtcDanny
mircea_popescu: for my numerous crimes of having known about various future pops months/weeks in advance, i shall henceforth be known as mp_goldstein
antephialtic: <JuicyGrabs> I didn't "lose" anything because I don't invest for short term and to be swayed by trolls and paid shills. I used this chance to buy more.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic he's fine, his investment is for the longest term.
jurov: till death do us part
antephialtic: they should have named the company herp & derp
mircea_popescu: soo, someone had pointed out an error with the bitbet dividend last month ?
ThickAsThieves: seems somewhat frequent to have numbers errors in mpex reports/divs
mircea_popescu: well i think there's less error here than the average, really
chetty: his calculator needs new batteries
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 18 @ 0.00583019 = 0.1049 BTC [+]
ozbot: BitBet, March 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06400204 = 0.32 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: anyone bored could make a tool to add up the balances in publicly displayed addies as an open audit thing
mircea_popescu: course this probably understates bitbet controlled btc, seeing how if a large chunk is used to make a small payment the remainder is still bitbet's, but anyway
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well if it's house-released it's not the same thing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06400204 = 0.32 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: blockchain is already decentralized, dont be so forumite
mircea_popescu: people are constantly asking "well how to acquire respek and a wot weight". this is *precisely* how
ThickAsThieves: the only centralized part is bitbet expenses and disclosure
mircea_popescu: lurk here, pick one of these that's a good fit for you and run with it. they're like... at LEAST weekly occurences.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves expenses aren't really that centralised. i mean which lines ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16984 @ 0.00094075 = 15.9777 BTC [-]
benkay: derpstributed application bitbet
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06869731 = 0.3435 BTC [+]
antephialtic: "Adamantiadis' code recovers the state from 30 output bytes within 12.1 seconds on the reference CPU."
benkay: distributed autonomous corporation
benkay: it'd be soooo lulzy to get -pr to troll btctalk with that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.0686973 = 0.7557 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: bitcoin might go up 100 dollars on the lulz
benkay: "popescu reverses stance on colored coins"
benkay: "ethereum ready for big boy time"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00094017 = 37.4188 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Twitter / jonwaller: We had a great #Ethereum ...
mircea_popescu: what the fuck would be going through a weirdo's mind that sported an OHIO tshirt
punkman1: MP's glorious beard being the most trustworthy
mircea_popescu: i mean, obscure band, i can see. you're hoping to hop the solist/celist
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.47941077 BTC to 4`937 shares, 50221 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: this guy's pretty epic. "i do ixcoin. i think it'll be huge"
mircea_popescu: chetty neobee didn't have a lambo. afaik that's bitpay
chetty: well he has had time to get one
artifexd: How the hell can you code on a tablet? The lack of pixels alone...
benkay: artifexd: if you don't strive for efficiency in your process in the first place...
thestringpuller: antephialtic: They spend astronomically more money in comparison to MP's companies...
artifexd: I'm used to working on multiple 30" monitors so the thought of working on a 7" tablet scares me.
chetty: I dont even like coding on a laptop if I can help it
Mats_cd03: seriously what is this 19:50:13 mircea_popescu: tumbler, an great bitbet but use how properly this so a much is in purpose, moreover isn't for to trivial how designed is on showing this anyway, it as any service exercise
benkay: i'm sure nothing happened
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
benkay: chetty: some day this year i'll get an office and move back to multiple monitors
Mats_cd03: i spent a few mins reading and i was trying to figure out if im really fucking high or the logs are broken
benkay: but for now, cafe lifestyle
benkay: Mats_cd03: did you check the date?
benkay: i'm considering telling a PM that all of his company's backups failed and have been corrupted for the past month.
Mats_cd03: this is worse than ponies, youre ruining my coffee time
benkay: mike_c: i for one do not appreciate the fix
benkay: now i have to read the logs
mike_c: i know, right? no days off around here
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
benkay: i see you debugging -assets in production, mike_c
mike_c: i didn't figure out the algorithm.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34308 @ 0.0009409 = 32.2804 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: yeah the entropy on it is bad, no cardano sorry guise.
benkay: what kind of cabal is this anyways
benkay: ;;later tell Duffer1 NASA was just a wholehearted theft of european talent. nothing endogenous to the USA.
benkay: s/wholehearted/wholesale
benkay: asciilifeform:just about every interesting technology attributed to a mega-organization was done on 'stolen time.' << yeah, as always, asciilifeform has it
mike_c: i feel like i've asked this before, but: bitbet revenue line 'fees from refunds'. how are fees that bitbet paid considered revenue?
mike_c: i was thinking tx fees on sending out refunds
benkay: bitbet also mining farm
mircea_popescu: actually : this is a good matter for public consultation.
mircea_popescu: so : last month bitbet made 3.68215306 btc, which should have gone as follows : 1.104645918 should have gone to the public shareholders, 1.288753571 to kako and 1.288753571 to me.
mircea_popescu: this because we still hold 70% of the shares, not yet listed.
mircea_popescu: through my mistake 3.68215306 have gone to the public shareholders instead.
mircea_popescu: how would teh wise other ppl rectify this problem in the current report ?
mike_c: what can you do? mark it under expense and carry forward.
mircea_popescu: no because that degrades the dividends owed on the 70% of shares not listed
mike_c: overpay yourself and kako in the same amount, then carry forward the expense.
mike_c: screws future investors, but they can see that in the report and take it into consideration.
ThickAsThieves: the question lies in whether and where the culpability lies
ThickAsThieves: i think it is not the shareholders that should be owed
ozbot: BitBet, March 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mike_c: not really. the company accountant screwed up. can't penalize specific shareholders for that
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves no ? it's just a floating charge against public share dividents.
ThickAsThieves: its meant to read that an error was made and that cant be undone by carrying it over
ThickAsThieves: i suppose a shareholder should read footnotes and know he'll come in owing some divs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 4000 @ 0.00040028 = 1.6011 BTC [-] {20}
mike_c: but now it is more confusing. there is no line item for that charge.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what happens if one month the revenue from closing bets is 1 btc but the house takes in 1k new bets, worth 100 btc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 500 @ 0.00085017 = 0.4251 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: obviously that 99 btc will be carried on the book until it melts away
mike_c: i guess the issue is that this is a cash flow statement, and the charge belongs on the balance sheet.
ThickAsThieves: unless bitbet intends to charge an employee or contractor for the loss, the shareholders eat it regardless
ThickAsThieves: if you had a full board, theyd probly seek reimbursement from the accountant
ThickAsThieves: to be candid though, you have an an accounting problem that appears to be consistenly inconsistent
mircea_popescu: in that meta sense : i'm quite happy with it, because it both creates caselaw and casepeople.
mircea_popescu: mike_c half tempted to move bitbet on a nz0 basis tbh.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the problem is that people who are actually qualified to do this stuff do not wish to do it, because they were qualified by fiat and wish to die in fiat.
mike_c: yeah.. it is not really accurate to call it a nz0 given how many assets it has :)
ThickAsThieves: then maybe my suggestion to go full dynamic aint so bad
mircea_popescu: it's bad. technology has never nor will it ever replace people.
mircea_popescu: if we don't have our own cpas, and our own fucking missiles, we'll have trouble.
blackwhite: technology has already replaced people
mircea_popescu: doubt we're that far yet, but i can appreciate your point in principle.
mike_c: maybe mpoe-pr wants to learn accounting
mike_c: she can do both at the same time
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you're new here. why not read the logs for a while and ask q after ?
kakobrekla: perhaps wait a few more hrs with that advice.
ThickAsThieves: i made the categories and two links! what more do you want!
bounce was going to say that excel isn't really appropriate for much of anything, then thought of "appropriate technology"... and excel is indeed pretty much the opposite.
mircea_popescu: yeah we need more wiki people. hey moiety, do you know what the manuls have been telling me ?
danielpbarron: i don't need to read the logs to understand you are collectivizing all bitcoin users as if they all have the same goals
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yeah, but you do need to read the logs to understand other things.
mircea_popescu: moiety they said you should be working butt off on wiki.
danielpbarron: how about you have your missile and i'll have mine? no need to personify Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: who are you ?! and why are you determined to feed my ignore list ?
☟︎ moiety: that's because they can't read mircea_popescu .. what does the wiki need
kakobrekla: moiety at this point, a lot of flash, i think.
mircea_popescu: moiety articles. think you're trying to tell stuff to your newb friend, so she can talk in -assets without being silly. what'd go in there ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: z ctrl - kakobrekla: ctrl z - kakobrekla: z - ctrl
mircea_popescu: so now that mpoe and bbet are all fucked up, allow me to ruin the monthly reports of nsa too.
moiety: I'm not actually allowed to include manuls in this am i
mike_c: what's a wiki with no manuls?
benkay: mircea_popescu: list all shares on mpex. divs can only be paid to full float. remove a source of pebkac errors.
mike_c: benkay: owner-shares are not supposed to be tradeable
mike_c: they are contracted to maintain a % of ownership
moiety: <mircea_popescu> "[...] without being silly." << you did just ask me, but i will try.
benkay: the problem is this manual "half the shares are not on the exchange" thing.
mircea_popescu: benkay nothing to stop the issuer from selling the treasury shares.
benkay: well this is a design of exchange thing
benkay: as designed, sure, not really a good idea to set people up to do a runner.
benkay: if you have 2 classes of shares, maybe track both classes of shares with the share tracking thing.
mircea_popescu: moiety cool. if you fuck it up all these other experts can fix it. but it seems unless someone starts nobody does sortt of thing
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves trade engine wants to kill your guitar.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 485.03, Best ask: 485.8, Bid-ask spread: 0.77000, Last trade: 485.03, 24 hour volume: 24505.07026789, 24 hour low: 446.02, 24 hour high: 509.98, 24 hour vwap: 474.365683399
ThickAsThieves: i still think having the shares "listed" isnt a good path
ThickAsThieves: but i can see how it's possible to facilitate such and some benefits it could bring
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06408505 = 0.3845 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: This is where he tells you to flash your webcam... or was that just me?
ozbot: overview for JuicyGrabs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0569 = 0.1138 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06400205 = 0.32 BTC [-] {2}
Mats_cd03: mp has a powerful effect on people
ozbot: MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 729 @ 0.00094007 = 0.6853 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10171 @ 0.00093989 = 9.5596 BTC [-]
mike_c: first: bug in the snsa report :D "demo-ed before a rapturous applause"
ThickAsThieves: "Bear in mind that we’re almost a full year away and things may well change. A definitive schedule will be published late March 2014."
mike_c: i mean, either demo-ed before a rapturous audience
mike_c: or demo-ed to the sound of thunderous applause
bounce: no no no it was clearly rapturous applause before a thunderous crowd
mircea_popescu: rancorous thunderclapping and also nubbins snowpocalypsae
ThickAsThieves: anyone know a good article explaining WHY the WoT is good, something to convince a noob
bounce: and what's that old fashioned thing with dashes? these days you are supposed to sprinkle apostrophes across your prose just in case you missed a spot, but no dashes
ThickAsThieves: that's my thought, trying to make sure some context is injected into the wiki
ThickAsThieves: a buncha a links is only arguably better than 'go read the log'
mircea_popescu: btctalk post had some good ideas/sturcture but not really a full and complete "why wot" thing
ozbot: Reputation system?
VanCleef: this bloomberg interview is interesting
VanCleef: what do you think about it all mp?
VanCleef: herp has got a bit of a hardon for u
mircea_popescu: im kinda surprised nobody's come out with the "herp is really mp" line.
VanCleef: i think this will affect havelock more so
VanCleef: and as i said earlier will probably close down sometime this year
kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves also there is a playground page to play around with
kakobrekla: if there is something specific you want to do i can tell you what you need to do
kakobrekla: if you want to create a new page on top of the dir, just visit the url you wanna create
kakobrekla: it will show in the menu automatically
kakobrekla: if you want a subpage, you can use nest it
ozbot: wiki:playground:test [bitcoin assets wiki]
kakobrekla: but for now keep it on one level if you can ThickAsThieves
VanCleef: did mpoepr really get banned from bitcointalk?
bounce: ze mod said so, must be true then
VanCleef: sorry if this is old news or asking too many questions
VanCleef: this doesn't seem like something TAT would post
ozbot: Please remove this user from this forum.
ThickAsThieves: ok i've added short descriptions to all the wiki links so far, surely they'll need editing and maybe some references
VanCleef: thought you got hacked or something :/
bounce: pr00f of h4x, I say. just like mpoe-pr clearly got h4xx0red. the mod was right!
VanCleef: lol just didn't seem like it was you
mike_c: can he say broken windows a few more times? he doesn't sound dumb enough yet.
ThickAsThieves: k i added the link as-is for now with suggestion for rewrite
mircea_popescu: "Coinbase isn't some random website made in a basement. It's a well funded, YC backed, known-founder company that complies with relevant banking law. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that they hold a partial reserve or have any ill intention whatsoever."
benkay: let's give the shitshow some credit, shall we?
benkay: "The steal-all-your-money rate of bitcoin businesses is running right around 100%, and you're going to lecture people that "they can only ever lose a small portion of all stored user funds"? Really?"
mircea_popescu: "The last "isn't some random website made in a basement" case was NeoBee. There were bunch of others before that, exactly similar.
mircea_popescu: Coinbase IS EXACTLY a random website made in a basement. So is AirBnB. So is everying else YC backed. Get over yourselves, lay down the pipe, you're a laughingstock for a reason.
mike_c: i like coinbase. i don't have to hold any $$ with them in order to buy btc.
mike_c: yes, so my buys are recorded. what am i going to do? use localbitcoin and buy all my coin on the street corner?
mircea_popescu: i got your actual passport, i got your address, your cc number, anything.
mike_c: how is this different from any other online service?
mircea_popescu: i could withdraw your 401k early and guess what ? even if you do gert it back, the tax is still due.
mike_c: it's not making bitcoin paypal. once i buy my bitcoin, coinbase is no longer involved.
mircea_popescu: i don't think the average us person realises exactly how fucked they are. and the "well everyone else is just as fucked" thinkin doesn't really work.
mike_c: my bitcoinz are not though.
benkay: dude mike_c buying over irc is way more fun
mike_c: steal my 401k, what the fuck do i care? it's worthless anyway.
mike_c: there is a practicality here. i can actually buy bitcoin with coinbase (with no $$ balance). there are extremely limited other ways for me to do that.
mike_c: i suppose. i wish -otc were better, but it's not.
mircea_popescu: there's you know, ringworm infested puddles all over africa
mircea_popescu: which are water for the locals, on the basis of the practicality that w/o water your le is a day.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.00093989 = 32.9901 BTC [-]
mike_c: ok. yes, i see that point.
mike_c: i guess it's just that the other water sources are filled with sewage, so the ringworm doesn't look so bad.
benkay: otc is not really a pain in the ass.
benkay: know how much you want to buy, have it in a moneypak.
mircea_popescu: benkay i suppose it depends a lot on where you live etc
benkay: it is *moderately* inconvenient.
benkay: why does it depend on where you live? even in the states one can buy moneypak with cash.
benkay: people are insufficiently wary about touching both the fiat rail and the crypto rail at the same time.
ozbot: #bitcoin-otc order book
mircea_popescu: maybe he lives five miles from any moneypak thing and it's run by zombies
bounce: need more peeps put their orders in there
benkay: it goes like this mike_c
benkay: "wtb btc with moneypak 2kusd"
bounce: then ignore all the scammers
mike_c: honey for the scammors. i'll try it again sometime.
benkay: yeah well then do your dilligence on trust ratings.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, maybe start with peanuts and work people up.
mircea_popescu: eventually people's histories with you are more valuable to them than any one trade so even the scammers won't scam you.
Apocalyptic: typical otc scammer won't go that far anyway
ozbot: BTC.sx Receives Largest Seedcoin Fund Investment: Virtual Incubator Finances the First Bitcoin-Only
mircea_popescu: largest search engine, first ever to use a search box! derpoogle.co!
kakobrekla: > In fact, this opportunity gives Seedcoin a substantial position in the most reputable, popular and advanced derivative trading platform for Bitcoin.
kakobrekla: > We congratulate BTC.sx on their continued success and the global respect they have earned among Bitcoin traders,” says Eddy Travia, Cofounder and Chief Startup Officer of Seedcoin.
moiety: mircea_popescu: i just caught up properly. is mpoe-pr ok? I hope so. it's pretty rough going dealing with shit for a long time and it then it ending unfairly.
mircea_popescu: they should also invest in that casino thing , whatever it was called.
Namworld: I guess in some places, $5 per hour is excellent pay.
mircea_popescu: moiety what's so unfair about it lol. she told teh guy where to stuff it, how many employees get to do that ?
kakobrekla: >With offices in New York City, London and Singapore, BTC.sx has an innovative, intuitive and proprietary platform that allows users to easily trade Bitcoin derivatives.
moiety: ThickAsThieves: if you really want banned, simply go in anything and personally insult people offtopic. its the only thing they ban for, in their words.
Namworld: And the guy knows he's not going to be sued for it.
Namworld: So, well... yeah, I'm not surprised. Those kind of people will be around as long as it works.
moiety: its unfair because of the way that forum is conducted
bounce: asleep at the wheel then trying to pull a sgt. hardass, wasn't too impressive from what little I saw of it.
mircea_popescu: Namworld good point re the relative safety. i guess many of them aren't unaware of it.
Namworld: It's completly not worth it to sue them, plus people won't do it just for the principle because the person is probably poor and in bad need of money. So why send a message by suing for something so small? (On top of it being close to impossible, re other jurisdiction combined with low amount)
Namworld: I'm sure it's a job for many on the forums/otc.
Namworld: Scamming 10 bucks here, 50 there, making new accounts and a few posts and small trades.
Namworld: Some might not be poor. Like a kid, just for the thrill. Scam a little amount.
mircea_popescu: prolly can clear 10 dollars a day on average, for 8 hour's work, which is just about the worldwide net average salary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12664 @ 0.00093936 = 11.8961 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: <moiety> ThickAsThieves: if you really want banned, simply go in anything and personally insult people offtopic. /// seems a step too far for me, i'll just not visit anymore unless to view a reference from this chan, or the like
Namworld: At the same time, why would they ban scammers? It's not like it's their job to investigate and provide proof of scams and then ban them. That's not how forums work. Plus the whole thing about banning without proof at first.
moiety: it's actually really easy lpace to forget about
Namworld: I can see why they'd say they only ban people derailing conversations/insulting without proofs. And just put a little scammer tag only once it's proven it's a scam.
mircea_popescu: answer : a mobster and acting boss of the bonanno crime family.
mod6: lilo` was a freenode admin back in the day.
mod6: (well, when it was openprojects.net or whatever.)
Namworld: They provide a medium to communicate, they don't protect people from themselves/scammers.
mircea_popescu: Namworld yeah except if you ban people that tell you to get fucked after you deleted a half dozen posts they made ostensibly because "you have to minimise the visibility of moderation" but really because you just as well didn't want their content visible
mod6: was reading through the logs, was like: O_o are they all on LSD today?
ThickAsThieves: Namworld i think your view is too black & white on the matter
ThickAsThieves: it is in their financial interest to be ethical though
Namworld: Perhaps, I didn't read about that part of deleting posts complaining about moderators.
mircea_popescu: generally speaking this is true. it gets real hard to argue no mens rea after you;ve been shown to have taken positive steps.
Namworld: That's the other issue with forums. If some admins/mods are bad and good at it, you won't see it.
kakobrekla: interestingly there seems to be two groups of people. first think asseters took ze drugs, the second group thinks they them selfs are on something. perhaps this tells a thing.
Namworld: Garr? is he still there under his own account?
twizt: mircea_popescu: did they extradite you yet lol
ThickAsThieves: mods wanna mod, but dont start with their own rep system for targets?
Namworld: I'd probably have left him there, yes. Let people rate each other/sort scammers out/investigate offers. It's trivial to make new accounts anyway. Scammers might as well keep their account with psts but also tainted reputation.
mircea_popescu: mebbe specially rendition some chicks outta their clothes while at it.
twizt: lawyering up atleast?
Namworld: Not like banning them would prevent them from coming back under a new identity.
mircea_popescu: Namworld not giving scammers the ability to make "Self moderated" threads would be one thing.
mircea_popescu: from "derps derping bitcoin" to "these people are criminals in disguise"
Namworld: That should indeed be implemented. So scammers can't leverage an account with lots of post to make a clean thread. Yet again, if you don't look up the guy's history even if the thread is clean...
mircea_popescu: first, allow any random scammer to moderate hteir own thread
mircea_popescu: after people get used to this, maged can start deleting posts that inconvenience his clients.
ThickAsThieves: the problem is this conversation puts us down to their level, and that pissed me off too
ThickAsThieves: we're here all trying to sort the finer points of why its fucked
Namworld: They already gave a rating system for people to leave feedbacks/make investigation of scam accusation easy. Rating page will list all the wrongs people are accused of.
kakobrekla: you can still rate even if you are banned so i use that to leave messages to people
kakobrekla: yes thermos did not respond to my email
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0569 = 0.1138 BTC [-]
Namworld: Honestly, I'd probably just ban people insulting others/derailing threads regardless of how likely they are right or the accused is a scammer.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.0569 = 0.3414 BTC [-]
Namworld: Insult = ban, explanation as to why someone shouldn't be trusted/their offer is bad, okay as long as polite.
mod6: I wanted MPOE-PR to kill that site with fire.
mircea_popescu: "california housing market too expensive for underprivileged groups ? PEOPLE MUST NAO LIST HOUSES FOR SALE PAYMENT IN COWRIES"
mircea_popescu: Namworld that's what you think for lack of experience. what's "an insult" ?
Namworld: Insult as randomly calling people words and swearing at them, not people "feeling" insulted.
mircea_popescu: your mother was a hampster and your father smelt of elderberries.
ThickAsThieves: yeah but you cant train forumites on what to complain about
ozbot: Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries - YouTube
novusordo: "I am insulted that this person is calling out my scam"
ozbot: Leah McGrath Goodman: "I Am Satoshi Nakamoto" | The CoinFront | Bitcoin News
Namworld: Calling out a scam is not an insult. It's at best accurate, at worst an erroneous assumptions.
ThickAsThieves: suddenly youre in the business you said you shouldnt be in
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @truth_eater Hey toots, how's ...
ThickAsThieves: <Namworld> At the same time, why would they ban scammers? It's not like it's their job to investigate and provide proof of scams and then ban them. That's not how forums work.
ozbot: YUM Introducing Seagate's New Drive Portfolio.
ThickAsThieves: it's not provable, but also not true discourse if false
ozbot: Alleged Silk Road Creator's Lawyer Denies Bitcoin Is 'Monetary Instrument,' Moves To Drop All Charge
Namworld: And I wouldn't ban scam accusations, weither true or false, like I wouldn't ban someone I thought is probably a scammer, weither true or false?
mircea_popescu: "Your honor, we finally got around to reading 2012 Trilema. We humbly submit this is a complete gamechanger."
Namworld: There's a difference between "This guy is a scammer LINK" "This is a scam because X, Y, Z or because I think so" and "You sound like a scammer, get the fuck out you dimwit scum"
mircea_popescu: is there a difference between "i perceive a difference" and "there is a difference" ?
ozbot: MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges
Namworld: No. But as admin I get to determine what is and what isn't acceptable. Even if the nuance is subtle.
novusordo: let me post that to reddit without reading it
Namworld: I'm not there to protect people's feeling like I'm not there to protect people from scammers. Just preventing straight up inflamatorry posts without substance.
mircea_popescu: Namworld yes well, some people make MPs thing, some other people make Bitcoin thing.
mircea_popescu: if it was JoeDorksForum your position would stand a lot better,
mircea_popescu: especially if that JoeDork was someone with a reputation of any kind.
Namworld: There's a reason why I'm not a forum admin tho, hard decisions to make, everyone always butthurt all the time, more bland content and same old being repated you can't read and filter everything.
mircea_popescu: so this has been an exercise in "let's discuss how the salmon would fly if it had no wings" ?
kakobrekla: they do not moderate the content but the form
pankkake: bitcointa.lk does not detect the extension :(
Namworld: I wasn't aware it was somehow official. Is the Bitcoin foundation official too?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla deeper than that : they moderate the content to favour scammers, under a pretense of moderating the form.
mircea_popescu: Namworld it claims to be. peoples implicit claims are held against them.
Namworld: As such, my point is as valid as if the forum was called theymosandcotalk.org
Namworld: It claims to be a Bitcoin forum like the foundation says Bitcoin Foundation. That people perceive them as official or not, I don't care.
mircea_popescu: well maybe you should run a catholic choir nambla local group then ?
Namworld: A little mention "not official, Bitcoin is decentralized" under the names would be nice, but what if they don't? I ain't going to harass them all day long, now, should I?
Namworld: Why would I run a catholic choir?
mircea_popescu: i have no idea. why would these derps run a bitcoin forum ?
Namworld: If people think they're official, it's because they don't understand Bitcoin, not because they run a Bitcoin forum.
mircea_popescu: "n 1994 Crichton became the only creative artist ever to have works simultaneously charting at No. 1 in television, film, and book sales"
Duffer1: to be fair jurassic park was a good book
Namworld: Same as if someone thought someone running gunstalk, goldtalk, sportstalk or whatever kind of forum was the official worldwide representative of guns, gold or sports respectively.
Namworld: If someone thing it's official, it's because they have no idea of the substance of the topic, not because the forum owners didn't put enough disclaimers.
mircea_popescu: dude get out. if you're running sportstalk.org and ban all discussions of all white players you're going to be drawn and quartered.
mircea_popescu: "o, i'm not racist, it's just how i run my forum which is mine"
Namworld: We're not talking about wether the mods did something wrong or not right now...
tg2: so how many shares of mpex exist?
nubbins`: Namworld: if sportstalk.org predated widespread use of sports, it probably would be quite the hub of activity.
Namworld: Just about them claiming to be somewhat official.
nubbins`: that's distinct from being official, tho
tg2: so satoshidice was listed on mpex before?
tg2: so how did it get sold to private party then
Namworld: Yes, all I'm saying is, if they're biased, okay. But why blame them for people confusing them for being official?
mike_c: it got sold, shareholders on mpex got paid..
Namworld: Did they ever claim to be official? I recall seeing claims of being the largest discussion forum about Bitcoin and that's it.
Duffer1: tg2 probably a trilema article on it
tg2: wouldn't all the shareholders have to agree to sell it?
mike_c: most shares on mpex are non-voting.
tg2: yes, but if you owned a share
tg2: and you didn't want to sell it
mike_c: and you have a non-voting share..
tg2: just curious about the process
mike_c: same as if google sold itself and you owned shares. nobody cares what you want.
mircea_popescu: there's no process. mpex shares hold no voting rights. nobody asks your opinion on how the comp is run.
mike_c: geez, i am starting to sound like you.
Mats_cd03: you get paid and you go on your merry way
tg2: > The MPEx holders nevertheless received 0.0035 per share,
Namworld: and that's the point I was talking about. I don't care about people believing them to be official because of that. It's not like it's their problem or anyone's to go put disclaimers on everything so people don't have to think and just follow directions.
tg2: how difficult is it to get listed on mpex?
tg2: yet pptapr and giga no issues?
Namworld: Not too hard I suppose, but yeah, what Mircea said.
mircea_popescu: otherwise kakobrekla asciilifeform etc could comment on it
Namworld: It's not like the requirements are too much or too hard to meet.
Namworld: It's that most scams fail to even come close to meet those requirements.
tg2: so if the dice buyout was kosher, ie: all the buyers got their fair value for their shares, why is SEC sniffing around for that corp in particular?
Namworld: Because some people wanted to keep shares/complained?
benkay: MPEx is the big target.
Namworld: I suppose especially those who bought from the slices of shares over IPO prices.
tg2: things like that happen though in regular companies that are listed, private party has an interest, buys all the shares above market, non-voting can't do much about it
Namworld: Because sell price way under IPO price, yet all MPEx shareholders got like 3x the price per share such they they'd get over the initial IPO price at the expense of private shareholders.
Namworld: Yet this excellent deal for MPEx holders didn't please people who bought way over IPO price.
mircea_popescu: tg2 we never got to know what they actually wanted because they could never figure how to express themselves.
mircea_popescu: the simile would be a down syndrome kid walking into a shop going GLEEEERHRHRHR!!
Namworld: Afaik, I think it was not Erik that sold shares over IPO, but the offer was other shareholders that wanted to sell at those high prices?
mircea_popescu: shop owner goes hey! if you want to buy sometrhing, go like this, if you want to borrow something, go like this
mircea_popescu: eventually shop owner calls the special down syndrome kid number to have the kid removed from the premises.
mircea_popescu: hopefully they find someone in new york whose brain works and they patch it up.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, they get a pitchfork mob going, and i'll have to hire a security detail around the shop.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves such fucktards with this bs. just won't learn will they.
Namworld: Either way, people butthurt about buying too high from the bigger shareholders who sold when the price was high.
Namworld: If I recall right, I bought afterward, when price was much lower, not long before SD sold.
Namworld: and all holders on MPEx got a very good deal in that sale.
tg2: SEC isn't really used ot asking nicely
tg2: I know people involved in the awesomepennystocks.com fiasco
tg2: sledgehammer approach
tg2: take houses, take cars, indict everybody
mircea_popescu: tough tits for them. i was not kidding when i said their future is at stake. it is.
mircea_popescu: they wanna take a crap all over it, no big deal really.
Namworld: Basically, contract was respected. People are mad about the SD deal because they can't verify anything about the sale. They bought at a high price and claim Erik sold to "himself" for low after selling some shares for a very high price or other such accusations.
mircea_popescu: we give bitcoin to the russian-ec or to the chinese-ec or to the cyprus-ec
Namworld: Now, if they could prove that, the story would be different.
tg2: that's a tough accusation to clear
tg2: but yeah it does open the door to fukc al ot of people when you pull strings on both sides
tg2: ie: oh profits are down on dice..."
Namworld: But without proof, contract was respected, shareholders got a great deal, and people are complaining about buying high before profits diminished and price going much lower.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.00093998 = 22.8885 BTC [+]
mike_c: getting bought out well above market price is a great deal.
tg2: hard to calculate who got the great deal
mircea_popescu: afaik there was this longstanding theory that erik is betting with himself. i never could see any proof for it, people were welcome to find it etc.
ozbot: The question of the year in BTC pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Namworld: They get 1/2 instead of 1/6th of what they paid because MPEx shareholders got about 3x too much for what the sale price was.
Namworld: They got like .0032 instead of ~0.0011 I think as the sale price commanded.
tg2: how much was bought over ipo
tg2: presumably it was sold by vorhees
Namworld: 10 million at 0.0022 and 0.0027 I think it was, in two slices. Or was it 3?
tg2: then bought back at "ipo" price
Namworld: The IPO was lower than the price holders got.
tg2: how high did it climb after ipo
Namworld: People complained because new shares were put up and sold in the 0.004-0.006 range if I recall right, for about 5 million shares?
Namworld: Afaik it was not Voorhees' I think, just one of the private shareholder selling. I suppose accusations come from people who bought then.
ThickAsThieves: it was actually the first thing i ever did in bitcoin communication, sent a msg to erik asking how it could be proven he wasnt stealing
Namworld: They got the short end of the stick, but is it because a scam occured? Contract was respected and outperformed. They bought at the high.
Namworld: Now without proof Erik did anything wrong... what are you to do?
tg2: ultimately somebody had to buy above 'value'
tg2: whether or not erik did anything to deflate or inflate that value
tg2: is really the only way he could be guilty of anything
ThickAsThieves: "What could stop SatoshiDice.com from using it's own profit pool to place bets on it's own site to hide profits from shareholders?
ThickAsThieves: Am I missing something about the setup that prevents this?"
ThickAsThieves: How would this hide profits from shareholders? It would do the opposite... it would inflate the site's earnings (because 1.9% of all bets becomes site profit) and then would require that the site pay shareholders -more- than they should legitimately have.
ThickAsThieves: For example, if I took 10 btc of SD earnings and rebet it over and over and over, eventually it would all be owned to the shareholders on mpex because they would see that the site had xxxxxxx in bets and xxxxxxx in profit owed to them.
mircea_popescu: many children, many people with no training or much understanding, lot of hype.
Namworld: A dose of mob justice, with unproven guiltyness??
tg2: yeah its pretty clear when you use fixed wallets
ThickAsThieves: I thought I had answered my own question after I sent my message to you. I thought your answer was going to be "Because all of the coins are stored in the public addresses on the home page, and everyone would see we were filtering out money". Do the coins all stay in the wallets posted on the home page (until dividends are paid), or do they get moved around in storage?
tg2: to see where money and bets are going
ThickAsThieves: "The coins are not stored on the public addresses shown on the homepage. They go into a secret chamber buried underneath the arctic circle Wink
tg2: the only way to counterplay would be to know the private keys in advance
tg2: but you'd see the house % going down
Namworld: Well to be fair, it's not a proof of innocence. But justice isn't supposed to work that way. It's not supposed to be guilty until proven innocent.
tg2: anybody working on a distirbuted-trust system for these types of scenarios?
tg2: where every voting shareholder gets a proportionate, verifyable voting mechanism?
mircea_popescu: tg2 anyway, you can take the message upstairs. "guy actually said you either play ball or he buries you, it seems improbable but he does have a history of doing exactly that."
tg2: I knew somebodyw as working on a wallet-splitter where you sent to an address and it split it by a fixed % and sent back out to the other x addresses
tg2: but you still ahve to trust the service
Namworld: I'm not sure how such a system would work to actually prevent fraud. Unless that system had exclusive amangement of funds. But then running a business would be close of impossible if all money spent needs to be approved by shareholders.
tg2: yeah I think the reality is it would be possible
Namworld: Plus it still doesn't prevent fraud...
Namworld: Assuming majority is in on the fraud...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26350 @ 0.00093815 = 24.7203 BTC [-] {2}
tg2: but yeah ultimately it comes back to the same issue where the people running the business have to maek hte decisions
domsch: Hey guys, Dom here. I’m in the process of setting up a few businesses and am actively involved in a few crypto-hubs. Just wanted to hang out in a few IRC channels to talk with people from the space.
tg2: I guess there just needs to be more liability there
tg2: which is sort of why the SEC was created in the first place
benkay: what kinda biz, domsch?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19731 @ 0.00093998 = 18.5467 BTC [+]
domsch: Crypto-related. We are mostly concerned on the educational aspects of the space and are creating several tools that are there to add liquidity to the market and help users embrace the new technology (not just bitcoin of course) in their every day life.
benkay: where's the overlap between "educational aspects" and "tools to add liquidity"?
ozbot: Bitcoin POS Terminal - Imgur
twizt thinks its time for a bunch of big words to be used, while making little to no practical sense
benkay: well that's better than a QR sticker.
domsch: educating and approaching the average consumer goes hand in hand.
domsch: and yes, it definitely is lol
Namworld: There's already large processors offering service plus conversion plus daily bank deposit for 1% fee.
Namworld: But this little device is actually quite elegant.
benkay: bitcoin consumer tech, man.
twizt: bro for something that big
twizt: it better play hd movies
twizt: that thing looks as big as a mac mini
domsch: yes I really like what Bigfoot is doing. I don’t think that anyone in this space can be treated as a competitor (in broad perspective of course) - we are mostly all after the same and pursue the same ideals.
benkay: you're all after the same thing but not competitors?
domsch: me and my team. I’m not alone. We are around 7 people right now.
Namworld: A mac mini? This thing looks smaller than a small computer fan. How small is a mac mini?
mircea_popescu: you the 17yo italian guy with fileyy / 360box game hacks ?
domsch: I am actually 18. And I’m german.
domsch: and I have never owned an xbox.
ozbot: Dominik Schiener - AngelList
ozbot: Bitcoin is creating a whole new set of problems pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
twizt: 18 years old developing hardware.. or ur professors doing it?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 250 @ 0.00085015 = 0.2125 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0444 = 0.222 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.00085 = 0.85 BTC [-]
domsch: Good read. And I definitely agree with you on some of the aspects that young people (of my age, younger or older) are in this space to grasp an opportunity - these are the people that don’t see the future, the long-term benefit. These are the people that are there to fuck you in the ass when they see the slightest chance to get away with a few bucks.
benkay: what what, in the butt
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05739997 = 0.1148 BTC [+]
domsch: I can tell you a personal story, how I tried to run my first startup, (a performance based advertising network, known as CPA = Cost Per Action) and how I was scammed out of my last $1000 and had to work over the summer as a construction worker to get enough money to continue working on the project.
domsch: I am not in this space to make a buck and seize every tiny opportunity, or even try to scam people. I’m here for the bigger picture. I may be young, I may be dumb - but I am trying.
benkay: ;;google trilema variety speak
benkay: "nobody knows how to make movies, but there are some people who know how to not make movies"
benkay: maybe reconsider the point-of-sale angle, sir.
mircea_popescu: a 50yo that fucks up is therefore losing his key for ages 51-70 or w/e
mircea_popescu: a 18yo that fucks up is losing his key for all time. you're risking a lot more than the 50yo, who already fucked the girls, drank the meads, got bored.
mircea_popescu: and in this space, fucking up is extremely easy. just ask danny.
mircea_popescu: benkay eh, he can't argue everything simultaneously. first let him you know... introduce it.
Namworld: domsch, so many young people with your mindset came around to do BTC services/business, only to have everything go down because of the tiniest mistake. BTC doesn't forgive, hackers don't forgive. Smallest error can doom you.
twizt: it fucked up already? lol
domsch: yeh I definitely understand where this is coming from. As people say: “It doesn’t matter what your idea is, it only mattes who you know.” That’s why I’m trying to be surrounded by the right guys. I am working on the networkign right now and meet the right people that have been there, done it.
twizt: i wonder how much money neobee wasted on all that promotional crap
twizt: what are their sales?
domsch: and don’t worry. I won#t be the Chief Compliance Officer, President, CEO, developer and support staff of this project lol
twizt: gdammit ThickAsThieves
twizt: We have written it, I shall be done
ThickAsThieves: is there an english word for entrepreneur, it's annoying
mike_c: it would be better at this stage to attach yourself to a more experienced entrepreneur.
nubbins`: is there an english word for restaurant? :D
domsch: in the early days of a startup titles don’t matter anyways as we still have to prove all of the hypothesis and actually get a working model up and running. So all these fancy titles are useless. It’s about getting shit done.
twizt: drive thru nubbins
mike_c: domsch: that is bs. somebody is in charge.
thestringpuller: rather than the general trend of the internet to become less intelligent over time
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.05658333 = 0.3395 BTC [-] {2}
twizt: domsch: all im reading is canned rhetroic lol
twizt: you sound too sales pitchy
twizt: (in my mental voice)
nubbins`: jim bob's rib hole is an eatery
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06869732 = 0.1374 BTC [+]
nubbins`: different from a restaurant :D
thestringpuller: domsch: "Right and wrong are just words. It doesn't matter who you know or what you say. What matters...is what you do."
mike_c: it would be better to learn by attaching yourself to someone experienced. this is a bad industry to learn by failure for the reasons already mentioned.
domsch: there is definitely someone in charge. But what’s the point of all the titles in the early days?
mike_c: to a degree. you still must get in the trenches to really learn.
thestringpuller: mike_c: true, you will never be able to fully comprehend the defense strategy against a large DDoS without having experienced it like say mircea_popescu
mike_c: or by working for mp when it happens.
truffles: <thestringpuller> u sure its him or he's paying some minions
ThickAsThieves: <twizt> you sound too sales pitchy /// methinks youre attacking the kid a bit too prematurely
ThickAsThieves: at least let him fuckup for himself before declaring him a fuckup
truffles: noisy spectators get a bad rap itc
mircea_popescu: <twizt> i wonder how much money neobee wasted on all that promotional crap << me too. but it doesn't seem like theres ever going to be a report.
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> smarter over time << word. this shit sharpens under my very eyes. it's... uncanny.
mircea_popescu: whoa look at that, truffles still exists ?! when did that happen.
mircea_popescu: dood eh ? so what were you in for these past few months ? larceny ? truculence ?
pankkake: promo crap, oracle license, building
truffles: u want to know why i left n returned just ask
truffles: i enjoy poking at u mp cuz others dont seem to dare :D
truffles: i wouldnt wanna be good at that nonetheless
gribble: nanotube was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 2 hours, 5 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <nanotube> benkay: the implication would be that output would be sorted by volume? :)
truffles: ill wait for the spam n check it out i gues
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05699999 = 0.114 BTC [+] {2}
twizt: i didnt say he was a fuck up lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0561 = 0.1683 BTC [-] {2}
twizt: truffles: talking abt domsch
twizt: mysql server is free who need a oracle lisence?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.05699999 = 0.171 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0453 = 0.1359 BTC [+] {3}
twizt: open question: anyone know how i can pull the kraken spot price using their api? where do I insert the symbol/pair on the url to retrieve the price?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.05699999 = 0.171 BTC [+] {3}
domsch: I wouldn’t say fuck-up. I am rather trying to participate and be actively involved.
twizt: im not calling u a fuckup lol
thestringpuller: domsch: lurk first. there will always be work to do. learn to do the work first tho
twizt: nah fuck that burn bridges domsch
domsch: and yes, lurking, reading and listening to the mistakes of others is probably the only way to be prepared for this.
pankkake: so it's a nfc payment terminal?
pankkake: pretty cool, very simple design
domsch: as a young kid that is just getting started, doing the above is pretty much the “only way” to prepare oneself. A problem that I have seen in the past is that a lot of people are reluctant to work with youngsters like me - which I do really understand.
domsch: part of that is why it’s great that Internet and Bitcoin allows people to stay anonymous for some time and just convince the other person through words and their abilities.
cazalla: he's got those shrem eyebrows that make you think twice
domsch: haha - no I hope I don’t. But it’s most stereotypes with locals. I live in the Alps and people around here are process driven: You go to school, college, then you work for someone for a ffew years and ONLY then you can consider running the show.
gx: anyone with some BTC twitter followers wanna help a brother out with a retweet? trying to get our beta update out to the public. pm me if interested, thx. sex and drugs in return
domsch: and yes, this is an NFS terminal. They are not ready for serial production yet as we will do some tests in Zurich sometime soon.
twizt: domsch check ur pm
truffles: oh u dont think any1 will copy it huh
domsch: ou I definitely do - we will open-source it all.
domsch: this is a gadget supposed to be there for the public use - it is there to add value, not generate money.
ozbot: Twitter / Coinigy: Coinigy Beta Update & ...
truffles: if u paint it black it could be like a little black box :D
kakobrekla: As with any new startup, exposure and early adoption are the keys to success. Please help us out by telling your friends, liking our Facebook page and following us on twitter.
domsch: all the CAD files + software will be free. But if you want to buy the actual unit (meaning already produced) you’ll have to pay. This is for those who don#t have access to a 3d printer and don’t want to go through the hassle.
gx: kakobrekla is there something wrong with that line?
truffles: domsch ok, sounds interesting gl
kakobrekla: an exchange does not need facebook likes, it needs market makers, for example. and those arent on facebook.
gx: kakobrekla we're not an exchange.
gx: reading comprehension goes a long way nowadays.
kakobrekla: dunno i would say you faild to convey the message
truffles: is the bitcoin message board down or something?
domsch: thanks a lot truffles.
gx: ok, thanks for the constructive criticism, any idea what we could do to improve on conveying the message?
khersonus: "less than 20s of delay. This number will be lowered in time to only a few seconds." << I don't think I'd call that "low latency"
kakobrekla: i get about 1000 px of white space first
kakobrekla: would be a good place to write "WE DO <this>"
gx: which link specifically?
ozbot: Coinigy Beta Update & Screenshots
gx: the link is a copy of the email blast we just sent out
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 225 @ 0.00581941 = 1.3094 BTC [+] {6}
gx: are you on mobile perchance
gx: i understand, i was curious if you were getting whitespace on coinigy.com vs the link i gave you
gx: i'm not getting whitespace so i'm just inquiring
gx: are you positive you're not looking at this on a tandy?
gx: correct. did we not convey the name properly?
gx: kakobrekla i'm just ribbing you a little bit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05699999 = 0.114 BTC [+]
truffles wants to go to all the btc startups and shake em
gx: truffles seriously? is that rhetorical? in which case, no- that's not the name.
gx: we've been tossing some ideas around, such as MPEZ or HAVELOX. but they're not rolling off the tongue.
truffles: those sound a lot better though
gx: regardless, appreciate the feedback, as negative as it's been :)
truffles: if its great, i wont say one bad word
gx: can't improve without constructive criticism. so far apparently there's whitespace, the pictures are shit, and the name sucks
kakobrekla: i dont see any pictures so whatever content you got there is gone
gx: there's a pronunciation guide for you oin coinigy.com
gx: you racist bastard :)
TomServo: first indicator that it's no good.
truffles: if u have great product none will care
pankkake: maybe because I'm French, coinigy is hard to pronounce
rithm: why are we calling people nigy's
phf`: gx: just fyi mac speech synth pronounces it as "coy-niggy"
kakobrekla: well, you have a presence on irc so props for that.
gx: kakobrekla regarding latency, the <20s is a catchall as not all exchanges offer websockets support. so we're forced to poll.
pankkake: google translate says coy niggy too
rithm: i'm not a coy nigger
kakobrekla: twizt you cant just say 'fees' and think you are done explaining
rithm: this site has upset me.
gx: kakobrekla users purchase credits.
rithm runs off to eat watermelon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00093771 = 16.1286 BTC [-] {3}
kakobrekla: credits , like a monthly subscription or ?
gx: credits are good for manual and auto trades
gx: not monthly, credits that are banked in your account, and are used up when you place a trade through the system
assbot: Some are born to endless night.
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00093761 / 0.00094535 / 0.00095556 (1383881 shares, 1,308.25 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094327 / 0.00095866 (6785318 shares, 6,400.43 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087641 / 0.00096 (29567602 shares, 25,913.37 BTC)
truffles: "We've been purposely vague up until this point as to what exactly Coinigy is, and how it works. " good stuff
kakobrekla: >NOW COMPATIBLE WITH EVERY MAJOR CRYPTOCURRENCY EXCHANGE
TomServo: truffles: exactly where I stopped reading.
kakobrekla: i have no idea what standards you got to apply for 'major'
truffles: dude i can shorten this up for u
gx: it's an email blast that we sent to our subscribers, it's not meant to be short nor tldr
truffles: its kinda bad was offering free help u know
gx: regardless, we're still in alpha, we're not listing the specific exchanges although they can be seen in the screenshots.
gx: i appreciate any help- and i expected criticism. main thing is just trying to get the word out.
truffles: anyways it nice to see creativity
gx: i don't care if anyone hates me, i pasted it here for a reason, harshest critics :)
truffles: i think theyre being nice though
thestringpuller: if people distrust you, then you have no foundation at all, and getting this "word out" is meaningless
gx: understandable. we'll be updating the site with more information about us, including shoe pics, SSNs, etc soon.
gribble: Nick 'rithm', with hostmask 'rithm!~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm', is identified as user 'rithm', with GPG key id None, key fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 113UToFpzVkTHnavtNkUJtjdFQW2BU5xLW
rithm: no trust here either gx
gx: you guys are really crushing my soul right now.
twizt: dude who cares look at ur [m
gx: mircea_popescu i'm just a coder with ambition, that's all. and i've done trades on otc, just not under this nick
thestringpuller: This user is currently NOT AUTHENTICATED. This user has not authenticated for more than 311 days. If you are currently talking to someone who claims to be this person, you may be talking to an impostor and scammer.
gx: i'm trying to remember, it was a damn long time ago
gx: sure, my name is william kehl. add me to your untrusted sources file :)
ozbot: Missouri University of Science and Technology
gx: anyways. my otc nick wouldve been gxdia or guardia, guess i didnt deal with that. maybe i'm thinking of litecoin otc
rithm: ;;gpg info guardia
gribble: User 'gx', with keyid None, fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 14nQyQz1mxgPTmq7BGTQpgtT6mGdmsikeD, registered on Sat May 25 09:20:22 2013, last authed on Sat May 25 06:20:22 2013.
http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=gx . Currently not authenticated.
gx: guess not- i've bought and sold via irc though. a few years ago. guess i'll register with otc and then all will be well
rithm: ;;balance 14nQyQz1mxgPTmq7BGTQpgtT6mGdmsikeD
gx: since having an otc account is some standard of trust, lmao
rithm: you guys are stalkers sheesh
rithm: like the butterfly
rithm: it's a genus or a species i do not reminder
mircea_popescu: this log is too short. pls thestringpuller to halp elongating ty.
rithm: lepidoptera was his girl
mircea_popescu: gx ok so you're an ambitious coder by the name of kehl, and you did what ?
mircea_popescu: some sort of autotrader script or am i not following ?
gx: metrics and autotrading script that ties into multiple exchanges, yes.
gx: and i'm still digging up my otc account
mircea_popescu: you have any sort of relevant background ? like being a quant or a latency tech or something ?
gx: ctrl+f'ing all over the place
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 19 @ 0.58549129 = 11.1243 BTC [-] {10}
gx: mircea_popescu i'm just a coder, but my biz partner has experience with quant and we have advisors who are daytraders
mircea_popescu: well, lotsa new people on here these days, pretty cool.
gx: i've been idling in here for quite awhile, just dont speak up much
mircea_popescu: either that or you're significantly brighter than the average and just got lucky.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i gotta go now to stand trial as a witness in a civil proceeding @ a local bar, so.
diametric: so, i'm sifting through the scrollback. some kind of daytrading tool coming out soon?
gx: i also have to bow out for some beers, it's been a pleasure, thanks for the lambasting everyone
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.068 = 0.476 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 25 @ 0.0075 = 0.1875 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 137 @ 0.0075 = 1.0275 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06869732 = 0.3435 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55019 @ 0.00094238 = 51.8488 BTC [+] {5}
benkay: did i hear truffles is back?
benkay: truffles is back, all these new faces
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06700001 = 0.201 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.00083501 = 0.2505 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 317 @ 0.000835 = 0.2647 BTC [-] {4}
zacm: WOW mpex in bloomberg
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 81 @ 0.00313709 = 0.2541 BTC [-] {7}
benkay: or very much the old news.
ozbot: mpex - Bloomberg Search
benkay: silly socks are silly, trolling with old news
benkay: no subtlety, these guys.
dexX7: i think zacm is legit, have seen him in #bitfunder for a long time
benkay: ah well bitfunder == legit then nooz to me
tg2: oic, sock accuasations from benkay - ahem
tg2: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:288632a9b19b898d49bd8da2a1e442d4f3aac51b71cde6fc8d4609ae
gribble: You are now authenticated for user tg2 with key 31FAA963C3333333
tg2: benkay why u calling me a sock
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00094378 = 27.4168 BTC [+] {2}
tg2: which secret agenda am I pushing here lol
benkay: implies b) c) or d) definitions for word
benkay: or maybe just a shibboleth
benkay: hard to tell on the internet.
tg2: you skipped your clozaril regimen?
benkay: well get off irc! how rude.
tg2: > business meeting is on irc
zacm: so this is disconcerting to see the lemmings on bitcointalk cheer on us gov action against mpex people. bitcoin community must be eagerly anticipating govcoin i guess
benkay: not three years of 'forum sucks, mpex at least isn't a scam' getting under everyone's skin?
dexX7: yea it's kinda old news
zacm: benkay, or whatever the federally approved crypto ends up being...
tg2: federally approved lol
dexX7: there is another thread opened by mpoe-pr
benkay: o there's a new photo of mircea_popescu
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide
tg2: has anybody put any thought into a bitcoin insurance company?
tg2: not in the sense that "oh we'll replace your bitcoins if they get stolen or lost" type of stuff
tg2: but for insuring companies that are traded
neilol: like a credit default swap
neilol: need a derivative market
tg2: you'd have to evaluate the business being insured
neilol: might be tough to get someone to take the other side
tg2: figure out a premium that makes sense
benkay: which companies would you insure, tg2 ?
dexX7: well, there are afaik a few who want to open an insurance serivce.. even this twobitsidiot
tg2: any companies, they companies would pay the insurance as a sign of faith against insolvency
dexX7: and reddit rumors mentioned a "big player"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.066 = 0.198 BTC [-]
benkay: well given that 99% of 'bitcoin companies' are barely concealed scams, the thing doesn't fly unless you can point at a potential customer that's not a scam.
neilol: well SecondMarket CEO said that some large insurance companies were approaching him looking to create products around btc
tg2: maybe not like insurance, but instead a certification
neilol: someone audited coinbase
dexX7: ah, i think that was what i meant, neilol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.0655 = 0.4585 BTC [-] {2}
neilol: its definitely a business
tg2: there would be certification requirements
tg2: like proving that you are solvent every so often
tg2: proving that you follow certain guidelines
dignork: neilol, but audit was strictly technical, keys safety etc.
tg2: proving that certain key individuals are known identities
tg2: and who have actual real-world assets
tg2: without having them divulge that
tg2: but if they break their certification
tg2: everybody knows right away
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33503 @ 0.00094352 = 31.6108 BTC [-] {2}
tg2: a hybrid bond/certification system
neilol: yeah dignork you're right. I'm thinking something like a KPMG or Deloitte would do
benkay: seems a bit premature. there's barely anyone to trust in the first place, much less people in whom one can trust instead of actually trusting your counterparty.
neilol: full rip through of financials, accounts, investory etc and certify books match real life
tg2: no but I think that now would be time for that
benkay: neilol: let's just get someone who's not an MPEx scam to issue financials first before we worry about auditing those financials, eh?
benkay: tg2: so start building some trust. run that operation.
tg2: it allows exchanges to prove to a certain degree of trust that that they are solvent without having to show their cold wallets to everybody
neilol: wild west has its drawbacks
tg2: but with an additional level of oversight
benkay: tg2: you'll have to overcome the stigma ratings agencies in btc face post-pirate.
neilol: begs the question: how could you do an audit without counter party trust
benkay: no that is actually the question
benkay: trust is that which all business runs on.
benkay: no trust, no business.
benkay: "trust but verify" requires trusting first.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.065 = 0.13 BTC [-]
tg2: why do people trust bonds
HeySteve: working on a Proof of Trust coin. the Web of Trust has been an inspiration
tg2: why do they trust fannie/freddy
tg2: not that it isn't misplaced
benkay: tg2: why do they trust neobee?
benkay: tg2: why did they trust pirate?
benkay: tg2: why do people by pmbs?
tg2: well that is different, those people had direct interests with the company they were representing
mike_c: we need a trusted auditing company like Arthur Anderson
mike_c: then this shit won't happen anymore
benkay: we need companies that need auditing first, mike_c .
tg2: <benkay> we need companies that need auditing first, mike_c .
mike_c: ugh. how old are you guys?
mike_c: is enron before your time?
tg2: <benkay> well given that 99% of 'bitcoin companies' are barely concealed scams
tg2: I think there is a need for this kind of liability secured "trust"
benkay: but let's go down the list by market cap, shall we?
benkay: who's got the biggest mktcap in btc-denominated securities?
tg2: sort of like a whoisguard but that holds the parties behind it responsible and sets up audit procedures and processes they have to follow
tg2: like a hybrid ISO and compliance board
tg2: who's best interest is in securing these businseses
benkay: ;;calc 0.00094307 * 1000000000
tg2: yet it holds no liability to the companies it lists OR the individuals that invest in it
tg2: *invest in those companies
benkay: "holds no liability to the companies it lists"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00093956 = 10.2412 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0075 = 0.375 BTC [+]
benkay: like i'm twelve, please.
tg2: that is no security against the companies it lists running away and taking everyones $
benkay: are you familiar with bitvps, tg2 ?
tg2: yes i just read it actually
tg2: from the link posted by mircea_popescu before
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0569 = 0.1707 BTC [-]
tg2: you're asking how a situation like that could have been mitigated by sucha trust organization?
benkay: har the value of S.MPOE is probably in that mircea_popescu delisted bitvps 'aggressively', whereas everyone else lists outright scams.
benkay: not really. everyone got paid out at par per the contract.
benkay: this trust thing, you see.
tg2: ok, I didn't read that in the delisting doc
benkay: well if it didn't happen you have quite the scoop there
tg2: no legal recourse from mpex -> bitvps?
benkay: ;;google trilema gpg contracts
benkay: no recourse in bitcoin.
tg2: but this company operates in the meatspace
benkay: think about it for a while
benkay: everything ultimately operates in meatspace.
tg2: I honestly wasn't aware that mpex paid out for delinquent listings
benkay: tg2: you should read the listing contracts.
benkay: so anyways if you come up with anyone to whom you'd sell this bond/insurance/rating thinger let us know
benkay: but it sounds a little defocused.
turbo_ac100: kakobrekla: second hit when searching on mycroft. There are two versions since they (he?) do versioning by hand. Since 1998 I guess...
tg2: I'm just surprised that noone has pursued it, it seems that mpex is doing just that however by covering their delinquent listers
tg2: so that is good to see, not sure why that isn't advertised more prominently
kakobrekla: turbo_ac100 i managed to come to that page but i still dot get it, what is the url that needs to be provided for the plugin
benkay: refrain of everyone who's looked into mpex more thoroughly, tg2
benkay: the 'why' tho is that mp doesn't care about people who don't read in detail.
tg2: I read the listing criteria I saw nothing about absolving personal liability in ti
benkay: well read the gpg contracts thing
tg2: but I guess that would go against it
benkay: 'no recourse in bitcoin'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.05699999 = 0.171 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: turbo_ac100 can you pastebin the xml ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.065 = 0.13 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06473333 = 0.1942 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: [XML] bitbet search - Pastebin.com
turbo_ac100: The "template" part should be axed. The mail address used was a meltmail.
ozbot: Judge orders Mt Gox CEO to U.S. for questions on failed bitcoin exchange
kakobrekla: added to bitbet, can someone with firefox confirm it is actually working
mike_c: i don't know if that was there before :)
mike_c: "error on line 10 at column 16: Opening and ending tag mismatch: Image line 0 and SearchPlugin"
mike_c: looks like <os:Image tag is not closed
mike_c: or rather, it is closed before the 'data' element.
mike_c: <os:Image width="16" height="16">data:image/x-icon;base64,AAABAAIAEBAAAAAAIABoBAAAJgAAACAgAAAAACAAqBAAAI4EAAAoAAAAEAAAACAAAAABACAAAAAAAEAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA////Af///wH///8B///$
ozbot: [XML] bitbet search - Pastebin.com
turbo_ac100: second to last line there is a 'template=' part pointing to mycroft that *shouldn't* be needed since you can't use the template anyway
gribble: You have not yet rated user turbo_ac100
kakobrekla: ;;rate turbo_ac100 1 did a firefox plugin for bitbet
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
turbo_ac100: Will register. Haven't done so for too long. I'll come back to you.
mike_c: just what i needed.. easier access to bitbet. there goes another pile of coins.