assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t}
assbot: !last <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l}
assbot: !mp <signcrypted dpaste.com url> (desc: returns the response from MPEX order)
assbot: !rules <nick/chan> (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r}
assbot: !exchanges <nick/chan> (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e}
assbot: !bash <lines> (desc: bashes last <lines> lines to bash) {short: !b}
assbot: !quote <lines> (desc: quotes last <lines> lines and returns dpaste url) {short: !q}
assbot: I don't give a shit who saw what and who did what or who did who.
bitcoinpte: ;;later tell benkay haha I just noticed your excellent use of "Bin Popescu"! You also made me realize that it should've been "ben" (also note the lowercase "b", eg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_ben_Johanan). Also, I'm really hoping that MP being "the hardest target in Bitcoin" is the sexual euphemism I think it is. Lastly, given your iOS cryptoproject, what are your thoughts on Glyph?
benkay: bitcoinpte: that would be the dick joke i mentioned last night, yes.
bitcoinpte: ;;later tell BingoBoingo looks like you forgot to add "
http://" to the URL linking my SEC post from yours :)
benkay: bitcoinpte: i'm lo these many years out of the synagogue, so thanks for the correction. i'll ship it with some other updates.
benkay: bitcoinpete: finally, glyph is a scam. they store your messages in plaintext on their servers.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]
benkay: i demonstrated this to the team accidentally a few months back, when logging into the web console to see messages we sent each other from our phones.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07 = 0.28 BTC [-]
benkay: glyph is classic fartup circus nonsense. apple's taken a firm stance on bitcoin+iOS, and Glyph doesn't have the horsepower to fight them. note: social media noise != canonry.
bitcoinpete: benkay: ya, they definitely made a fuss and not much else. glyph's whole implementation lacks appeal. "Drop me a line at horse-moon-cloverleaf" doesn't reach catch people
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00424994 = 0.85 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0666 = 0.2664 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.06811111 = 1.3622 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.05389818 = 0.5929 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05399933 = 0.486 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00424994 = 0.425 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 138 @ 0.00424994 = 0.5865 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 147 @ 0.00424994 = 0.6247 BTC [-]
benkay: i don't play twitter myself, but it's neat to see links up there.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07 = 0.21 BTC [+]
bitcoinpete: benkay: what can i say? it was a great quote. and one that i would've vehemently opposed 3 months ago.
bitcoinpete: i'm off for a bit of sport, then book clubbin' (antifragile, somehow people haven't read it) cheers
benkay: ha well in retrospect it should have been "stupidest goddamn".
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 22 @ 0.01600001 = 0.352 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: today a project manager spinning up a new frontend contractor asked "hey how do we import this vm into vagrant without smashing the frontend dev's existing precise64 image?"
benkay: "dear pm. please see the detailed instructions i sent you yesterday. yours, etc"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 73 @ 0.00432983 = 0.3161 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
benkay: hey, assettes: how would you phrase a bitbet to revolve on Blockchain's solvency?
benkay: or whatever the equivalent term for a bitcoin wallet operator is?
bloctoc: Warren Buffet doesn't want to end up with 1,000 sub $650 Bitcoins. Is there a place to borrow 1000 BTC? Assuming his WOT is legit?
dexX7: hm. but blockchain.info doesn't hold any btcs?
ninjashogun: so, the doge financier person's loan fell through. what a waste of several weeks of exchanges with him.
bloctoc: benkay that's genius. the phrase "liquidity event resulting customer loss of funds" might work
Mats_cd03: Borrow? Uhh...no. He would hedge his position, and mpoe is the place for it, incidentally.
gribble: Current Blocks: 291222 | Current Difficulty: 4.2502179198695354E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 292319 | Next Difficulty In: 1097 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 22 hours, 4 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 4625267960.62 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.82425
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00080457 = 19.9936 BTC [-] {2}
bloctoc: Mats_cd03 thanks. So, Warren would buy some bitcoins, take the bet, and buy puts?
Mats_cd03: That would be ideal, although he could hedge some other way with fiat, too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00080505 = 17.0671 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how is it that herr orloff is using the terminology of the russian propaganda, you figure ?
benkay: bloctoc, Mats_cd03: can't quite hedge on MPEx anymore.
bloctoc: futures, still right? I was trying to think of a way to play the 30/1000 odds on this bet, but then got distracted.
ninjashogun: jcpham, if you have any thouhts I'd be interested.
benkay: bloctoc, the challenge is in the proving these things to the bitbet mods, and coming up with criteria that satisfy their standards.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00080505 = 15.0544 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13026 @ 0.00080745 = 10.5178 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: blackwhite what is "a site based on bitcoin data" mean ?
mircea_popescu: there's 3-4 of those, but you never know when they croak, so.
mircea_popescu: if you comprehend go the best solution i'd say is the package maintained by conformal
mircea_popescu: but if you're a minimum effort sort of guy even a bitcoind can work, you can directly query it from any software stack. python, php, whatever you run
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 288 @ 0.00424994 = 1.224 BTC [-]
blackwhite: thanks. I was considering getting a proper solution. I will look into conformal. My strength is in design (I can code but I am primarily a designer)
mircea_popescu: well don't end up running something you don't understand.
bloctoc: thanks benkay. So, I'm looking at S.EUR as... WTF is S.EUR?
blackwhite: sure. I have enough developer friends that will keep me in place
benkay: not quite the leverage of options, you know?
bloctoc: I'm afraid virus if I click
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "in refusing to acquiesce to the installation of a neo-fascist regime in Kiev"
mircea_popescu: bloctoc mpex doesn't even use javascript what are you on about
bloctoc: actually, I had already clicked, but I don't understand the contract. I was trying to blame my inadequacy completely fabricated internet security problems.
mircea_popescu: as far as i recall the nazis raped ukraine pretty good, the notion someone there actually is much of a nazi is ridicxulous on its face to begin with.
mircea_popescu: right wing, i guess, "socialistically-challenged", whatever.
mircea_popescu: which... you know, has to to with nazism about as much as mice and men with martin short and steven segall has to do with french impresionism
mircea_popescu: yeah yeah, but you know and i know it's entirely empty posturing.
mircea_popescu: for instance, a rejection of ukrainians as lower stock ?
mircea_popescu: an actual nazi party in the ukraine would be quite the schopenhauerian feat.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00424994 = 0.2125 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no, as i say. it can't be a proper nazi party for as long as it seriously contemplates accepting any ukrainian national in its ranks.
mircea_popescu: it's like telling me you could have a grandee armee in coventry.
mircea_popescu: no, you fucking can't, the french would have never taken any brits, ever, no matter what.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48255 @ 0.000802 = 38.7005 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: listen, srsly, galicia doesn't count in this discussion.
mircea_popescu: right. the equivalent of romania's iron guard's codreanu idjit.
mircea_popescu: why aren't these qualifications for "loyal subjects of the king of aragon" ?
mircea_popescu: "death to the jews" is, at least in europe, about as common as "open your legs, i'm not gonna do anything"
mircea_popescu: i mean understand me, i am not proposing that either side or party or w/e active entity there is either respectable or in the right.
mircea_popescu: im merely saying that the neonazi label is about as approximative as calling them "knights of the cuisinart", or freemasons.
mircea_popescu: and inasmuch as this is the case, which exact label one picks serves as a group identification. if you use the russian propaganda terminology you basically are throwing up a flag and little more.
mircea_popescu: "Unlike competing Polish, Russian, Hungarian or Romanian nationalisms in late imperial Austria, imperial Russia, interwar Poland and Romania, Ukrainian nationalism did not include antisemitism as a core aspect of its program and saw Russians as well as Poles as the chief enemy with Jews playing a secondary role." lmao.
mircea_popescu: so then what, were the jews in ukraine mostly settled farmers ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 282 @ 0.0043109 = 1.2157 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: but listen, had orlov called them "privileged male chauvinist pigs" i'd have went "whoa, when did this guy join the blue side"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00611787 = 0.3671 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: there's approximately 0% chances of sevastopol falling this year.
bloctoc: for the logs, I will be changing my handle to tacostorm soon
mircea_popescu: that's always been the question of the independent thinker,
mircea_popescu: but calling people "neonazis" describes nothing, and especially not accurately or completely.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0043299 = 0.2165 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well, nationalist movements in the 21st century. it's gonna be pretty comedic.
mircea_popescu: "Not too many takers so far: of the 100 confirmed bets, 88 are betting on Uncle Warren. Only 12 have taken the bitcoin side of the bet. (Paul Vigna)"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.00429057 = 0.3647 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: hey. i guess that finally makes me baby jesus on a stick ?
Duffer1: lol no mention of the size of the yes bets...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, in sum, you're saying he's just whatever, too tired to even invent a name for the idiots so he's going with neo nazi ?
Duffer1: yes has 1007 votes, no has 31 votes
ThickAsThieves: I'll be there for your crucifixion, and there when no apostles are left
mircea_popescu: see, if he had called them maidowniks i'd have been in awe of his fucking expressivity
mircea_popescu: it just needs to be beaten black and blue and then fucked raw.
Shakespeare: He's rounding up the watch of his wit, by and by it will strike.
Shakespeare: did you see that ad i linked to with the girl jiggling her butt?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: fuck this life, for one night you dont suck a dick and suddenly you are not a ho anymo' ? <<< bwahaha
mircea_popescu: that's like the third most overused gif on the internet.
Shakespeare: I do repent the tedious minutes I with her have spent
ozbot: Consumer Alert: Buy Bitcoins at Your Own Risk
mircea_popescu: "No Mircia, US isn't confused, just disgusted with thugs like #Putin"
mircea_popescu: putin should come out of the closet as a furry or something, just to troll reddit.
Shakespeare: Putin is doing pretty well with his branding as is
Shakespeare: basically seens as the cuddly mobster with a beach bod
mircea_popescu: if he did more craigkate type of stuff it'd be riotous.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem with large organisations and old people, they aren't in touch with the kids anymore, dunno how to really hurt them.
mircea_popescu: a steady stream of "putin takes stance on making kremlin toilets use recycled paper" bs would do wonders.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but you will notice that mpex has mpoe-pr doing a lot of fun stuff
Shakespeare: mp will you pay for my ticket from Romania to Amsterdam to go to the Bitcoin 2014 conference and call out Jon Matonis with a crowd present?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.0007995 = 9.9138 BTC [-]
Duffer1: i'd put .1 on that shakespear
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare no, but matonis could pay me not to pay you...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notrly, he doesn't have reddit comments going "reading putin's pr chick makes me physically hurt"
mircea_popescu: that's ok, once they reach a level where they can be helped they'll make their way here.
Shakespeare: i'm just making excuses to do a euro toyur
mircea_popescu: "The Piraeus bond deal underscores both the continued improvement in the perception of Greece’s economy as well as the flood of cash in the financial system that has depressed returns on debt of all stripes."
mircea_popescu: i'll tell you who. all the people with worthless cash.
Shakespeare: maybe if they all trade bonds for bonds enough between countries, all the debt will go away
mircea_popescu: yeah, like if you have sex with a lot of 3 year olds your hiv will be cured.
mircea_popescu: The current digital currency narrative, while certainly attractive to entrepreneurs, venture capital, and the media, is extremely "First World" in nature. And a primary question remains -- do such innovations, as we know them today, address the needs of consumers and businesses on both sides of an international transaction?
mircea_popescu: it's like... nobody ever puts in a derp order that goes unfilled by the derpgods ?
Shakespeare: whiskey, beer, some ginger drink with i think rye whiskey, beer, malbec
mircea_popescu: im sure that according to the fly's own onboard instrumentation, its flight is quiet.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 40 @ 0.03010004 = 1.204 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: benkay that blockchain thing actually soiunds like a good idea. i can't believe they're past the 24h mark.
benkay: anyways, off to troll the local yokels about their inadequate security and absurd obeisance to the tyrant
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0540999 = 0.1082 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
benkay: that's not easily faked?
benkay: i'll be watching the logs
mircea_popescu: bloctoc if you have the fiat collateral to post im pretty sure you'll find some. you can prolly even ask coinbase.
Shakespeare: my wife is pissed at me because i said people dont pasteurize chemicals and i wasnt polite enough (being wrong wasnt even the issue, as she was talking about apple cider vinegar, and i was talkign about acetic acid)
nubbins`: too bad you only paid for the draft sketches :\
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare make her kneel naked on dry beans for two hours.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 251 @ 0.00410364 = 1.03 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: lmao so i made hotel reservations today, which they confirmed in triplicate, and the girl eager to impress both her boss and his mysterious business partner guy of numerous hermetic grandeurs (ie, me) broke out the special character set : "doublé rooms" she says.
Shakespeare: this is compounded by her being mad at neil degrasse tyson for saying evolution is a fact
Shakespeare: she just thinks scientists shouldnt be so arrogant about their proven theories
mircea_popescu: this woman would chew on her own liver if she ever read these logs wouldn't she.
Shakespeare: i explained that just because they say evolution is fact, doesnt mean they exclude all other possible influence
Shakespeare: maybe mutations arent totally random, whatever
Shakespeare: she just thinks they need to be more open-minded
Shakespeare: i explained there is a scienctific process
Shakespeare: but you can see how the first statement morphed with each of my rebuttals
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.0007995 = 2.3186 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more open minded, in this context, is for instance considering the point that a severe beating is liable to be at least as effective an educational tool as speech.
Shakespeare: really the only lesson to learn is to not watch Cosmos with others
Shakespeare: that, and of course, that your wife is always right
mircea_popescu: people keep harping about "inequality of wealth distribution", but that fails to worry me.
mircea_popescu: what does worry me is that out of the stupidities emitted every day, said sphere leisurely owns 99.x%
mircea_popescu: while by population should only be entitled to a modest 15%
Shakespeare: well why are smart people so disinclined to reproduce?
Shakespeare: i watched a documentary on Romanian street kids
Shakespeare: girls that look like boys, huffing paint all day
nubbins`: "why are smart people disinclined to put their lives and plans on hold for decades and hit a generational reset button?"
Shakespeare: the documentary blamed it on the banning of birth control
Shakespeare: but all the kids seemed to be escaping alcoholic dads
ozbot: Children Underground - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: huffing toluene/whatever other solvents is not that geograpghically concentrated
mircea_popescu: it may actually be genetic. about 18% or so of the population finds various aromatic hydrocarbons... aromatic.
mircea_popescu: you have like 30% chances to develop some types of liver cancer etc.
Shakespeare: aurolac i think, was the stuff they huffed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what i read suggested it's the presence of particular enzimatic pathways
Shakespeare: i mean i dont like so much i'd seek out smelling it
mircea_popescu: their liver is just not too happy with the prospect of having to cope with that load.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a lot of metabolic diversity under this "all humans are humans" misguided perception. and it isn't limited to this species, either.
mircea_popescu: some dogs love chocolate. some other dogs can die spontaneously from it.
mircea_popescu: cats are fine, but i've never heard of a cat like th estuff
nubbins`: there's mixed opinions on whether tomatoes are bad for cats
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah. but also a lot of variation there.
nubbins`: altho TBH people thought tomatoes were bad for people until what, the 1800s?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i kept proposing people to make catnip illegal in the us
nubbins`: i figured it was because it's from the nightshade family
mircea_popescu: very few got the high quality trolling they were blessed with.
nubbins`: either way, imagine being the guy who discovered tomatoes are awesome
mircea_popescu: nubbins` no. this was chiefly a us phenomenon. the us at the time was poor and lazy, so most of their flatware was made of lead.
mircea_popescu: guess what happens to lead that's washed in aciding tomato juice.
nubbins`: it makes the food healthier? ;(
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but why should it be allowed for cats ? it's a drug neh ?
nubbins`: if cats paid taxes, catnip would be illegal
mircea_popescu: not to mention the shit trays and medical inspections.
nubbins`: $75 to get a thermometer stuck up Pinki's ass last week
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform plenty of indirect taxes tho. everyone pays.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know, paragraph long links look kinda dorky
ozbot: Hands-Free Sperm Extractor: Zhengzhou Central Hospital In China Introduces New Donation Machine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31816 @ 0.00080044 = 25.4668 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35000 @ 0.00080298 = 28.1043 BTC [+] {2}
Shakespeare: as an aside while i read, do you consider a state leader imposing law that results in more children to be smart or dumb?
mircea_popescu: for that matter : leadership and lawmaking are quite distinct endeavours.
mircea_popescu: incidentally it is naught but shoicking how little persian exists in english translations,
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41850 @ 0.00080328 = 33.6173 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: afaik the russian inteligentsia of today is developing quite a crush on persian cultural achievements.
mircea_popescu: (which does not map on iran at all, and which actually in the future may be the engine that liberates the poor persians from the smelly arab invaders)
ozbot: Sharia saw: Iran releases pictures of brutal amputation machine chopping off man's fingers in bid to
mircea_popescu: and if this is the next target for the suddenly found int'l cock of putin,
mircea_popescu: then we'll get perhaps to hear all about the arab nazis on orlov's blog
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you definitely can, iran is more deeply split than the ukraine.
mircea_popescu: they have this special immunity thing, they don't have to as long as they stay in the "foreigner" zone
ozbot: Jodaeiye Nader az Simin pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: in it, the father teaches his pubescent daughter the difference between "us" and "those people" as a matter of course,
mircea_popescu: and generally the degree to which the society is steeped in it is clearly apparent
chetty: asciilifeform: you mean the 'reservations'?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform precisely what the recent thing with the sec was all aobut.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Noted for future reference
mircea_popescu: "you may continue to pretend you're a country just as soon as you come to terms with us being immune"
ozbot: earn currently unavailable
mircea_popescu: .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo
mircea_popescu: ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .bait
ozbot: earn currently unavailable
gribble: .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .bait
ozbot: earn currently unavailable
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 703 @ 0.00049 = 0.3445 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: precisely what the most serene republic amply posessed and widely employed.
Shakespeare: could a population thrive where the role is reversed?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00080013 = 20.8834 BTC [-]
chetty: society can not fight mother nature
mircea_popescu: not unless by "men" you understand "they with vaginas and pregnancies"
mircea_popescu: well sure, that's the end of it. "could a planet exist with aqueous atmosphere and oceans of air ?"
Shakespeare: merely if it's a role issue more than a gender one
chetty: no its not, the roles are part of biology
mircea_popescu: the answer my friend (as you well know) is that feminism is not a theory, nor science, but a marketing ploy.
Shakespeare: is your text also implying that a society which gives women fair play in the economy, ie females CEOs, equal pay, etc, is doomed the same?
mircea_popescu: actuially mostly female police seems to work wel lin columbia
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare yes. a democracy can never produce art. give the plebs the vote, you've ended painting, and music.
mircea_popescu: a society where women have a say in their reproductive history will produce a finite number of generations.
Shakespeare: what if the women become self-aware in this way
Shakespeare: and seek to institutionalize sifficient reproduction
chetty: pass a law that the wind can not blow?
Shakespeare: i do suppose the nature of male is still quite that it would seek to dominate
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare now, getting back to your original q, economic independence is not problematic, just as long as its not backed by legal independence.
mircea_popescu: this is why jooz mostly survived, and middle east models allow for stable populations.
mircea_popescu: while the economy is in fact wholly controlled by matriarchs, nevertheless they have no legal rights.
Shakespeare: and this whole perspective is more likely the more intellectual root of conservative americans concerns for the sancitity of the family?
mircea_popescu: it's an unclear intuition in their turbid heads of something that's factually there.
Shakespeare: this certainly adds much-needed depth to their behavior
mircea_popescu: because merely saying "these people are stupid" is rather poor sociology.
mircea_popescu: but why stupid this way rather than that still needs to be explained.
mircea_popescu: the romans were very openly pro-gay and worked just fine.
mircea_popescu: what men do to each other does not matter in any sense.
Shakespeare: and this Garden movie, still required watching you think?
chetty: don't confuse anti-gay with protect marriage - the roman gay still married and had children
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps simple knee jerk "no no no no no no "
Shakespeare: "Gardens of the Night (a 2008, also with John Malkovichiv) is yet another installment in that man’s awesome, ruefully complete, atrociously honest, blithely limpid discussion of the divine cunt. "
mircea_popescu: one may discuss pedophilia either as an actual professional, having gone to proper school for it
mircea_popescu: or else as an amateur, having at least seen that film.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26950 @ 0.00080354 = 21.6554 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im not sure i follow the implication here.
mircea_popescu: i dun believe it, tbh. they're "concerned" about gay rights for much simpler reasons,
mircea_popescu: ie : how do poor would-be "CEO"s create a rent extractive engine ?
mircea_popescu: why, by making an overseas ngo doing something like protecting gay rights.
mircea_popescu: now they get to travel, which excusesd them from owning a house,
Shakespeare: the line i feel the most, in the whole thing, is this: "If you can do anything it’ll be hard actually doing anything."
Shakespeare: that cloud has hung over me many times in life
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare my mother had me at 21, which was a reasonable time to have a kid at the time, towards the end of one's secondary studies.
mircea_popescu: doctor told her it's fucking late to have kids in your 20s and wtf is this bs.
mircea_popescu: those 17yos are still having kids today, except "it's a problem"
mircea_popescu: human female is really built for primiparity around the age of 18
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i heartily recommend having the kids in egypt.
mircea_popescu: costs ~1 dollar a day, and it's a much better environment
mircea_popescu: or w/e, was, a decade ago. maybe meanwhile went to shit.
okcjosh: whats the going consensus on the GHS futures at cex.io
Shakespeare: it seems the more blurred this line between man and woman, the more discontent is bred
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare people often misrepresent their boredom and pointlessness as "discontent"
okcjosh: will it pay off? Right now a may GHS is around 33% the price of a live GHS. Does buying 3 times as many GHS for may have a good chance of paying out more, based on estimated Diff increase?
mircea_popescu: okcjosh when i ask you to be specific i mean about the contracts you're discussing.
Shakespeare: somehow it seems buddhism is a spawn of all this
Shakespeare: i guess all religion might be a spawn of this struggle
mircea_popescu: the irony here being that women do not in fact object to being quite literally enslaved,
mircea_popescu: and the supply of actual men is so tight... so, so tight...
Shakespeare: well morals and community and etc all serve to pervert this
gribble: Time since last block: 11 minutes and 54 seconds
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
gribble: Error: "synchrophasotron" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43554 @ 0.00080426 = 35.0287 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07326103 = 0.2198 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00080381 = 12.3787 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.0008047 = 12.9154 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0666 = 0.1332 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.053002 = 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40820 @ 0.00080092 = 32.6936 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9882 @ 0.00079933 = 7.899 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe someone is playing with themselves and hoping to trap someone when they break pattern?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00079924 = 29.2921 BTC [-]
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide
mircea_popescu: "o i had imagined i am important whai is it the case nobody cares"
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1066 blocks | Estimated Change: 7.9920% in 6d 19h 26m 23s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00079852 = 13.2554 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 4000 @ 0.0001 = 0.4 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: All this butthurt over the fact they couldn't identify operators willing to continue indefinitely instead of collapsing at the first sign of opposition
mircea_popescu: this particular guy seems more like the armchair general type.
mircea_popescu: the sort that figures that by spending an inordinate amount of time derping on the internet he has now amassed credibility and importance and should be taken seriously.
BingoBoingo: Well their derping in other of your PR's threads supports that
mircea_popescu: sort-of like the people who imagine that if they spend a lot of time adding code on github they are now decident factors in the future of the world,
mircea_popescu: just like the people who imagine that if they spend a lot of time editing wikipedia they are now qualified to whatever, direct research spending i guess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39093 @ 0.00080439 = 31.446 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.01690824 = 0.1014 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "The worship appears mutual, and watching Wetern media worship a bunch of nobodys whose idea of public art is going into supermarkets and stuffing frozen chickens in their vaginas (“Pussy Riot,” that is) provides much-needed comic relief."
BingoBoingo: Sentence seems like someone who probably was just weeks ago glorifying the extremes of human performance on display at the olympics. Why the double standard for vaginal performance?
mircea_popescu: in general because old men fear shameless hussies as the likely agents of young alpha males, which is how you say "evil" for old people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 5680 @ 0.00010001 = 0.5681 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: I wonder how many of the Old GLBSE tards are familiar with this latest SEC email exchange? How hurt are the butts that saw Nefario just up and quit?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 733 @ 0.00080533 = 0.5903 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: I wonder if there is a way to get the reaction from those exchange shareholder on welfare. If only there were a log like that of their reactions to be leaked.
mircea_popescu: i suppose if you're very bored you can hunt them all down and ask them, either on irc, via forum pms or w/e.
mircea_popescu: this is what reporting is made out of, after all. burning the shoe rubber all day.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 25 @ 0.0301 = 0.7525 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 567 @ 0.00080598 = 0.457 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 17 @ 0.03001224 = 0.5102 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 15 @ 0.02996344 = 0.4495 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00082313 = 0.1235 BTC [-] {3}
chetty: recall the talk about pilots and lasers? check this out
ozbot: Pilots hit by 'nearly blinding' glare from solar facility | The Daily Caller
benkay: o hey high albedo shit is high albedo
benkay: well, reflective at certain angles
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00080598 = 26.7585 BTC [+]
benkay: dexX7: where'd you get that? it's excellent.
benkay: oh hey bitcoin payments for comics
benkay: their authors generate epic backlogs of work (some of them) and the fans are slavish fans who will pay for anything
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35336 @ 0.00080217 = 28.3455 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: i'm kinda amazed that Scenes from a Multiverse doesn't have a first button
benkay: oh wait Shakespeare see above
benkay: mireca_popescu already figured out out to monetize backlogs of content.
benkay: just...imitate those who get it?
LordPutin: anyone ableto log into the blockchain wallet atm?
benkay: LordPutin: have you tried hedging your losses on bitbet?
benkay: you might be able to troll the blockchain.info operators into putting 100B on "we totes have your butts"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00080012 = 16.0824 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1300 @ 0.0043276 = 5.6259 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00079961 = 33.9035 BTC [-] {2}
bitcoinpete: written an hour ago. and they're down again.
LordPutin: i haven't had to enter mypassword in over a year
LordPutin: justbeen using it on the app and it keeps asking me to enter password
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05421217 = 0.1084 BTC [+] {2}
moiety retreats to -assets for safety
moiety: o i thought that was way more recent //scrap
benkay: hey moiety troll all the freaked out webwallet users with me
LordPutin: but what if i dont remember the password?
benkay: so bitcoinpete what's your background?
moiety: LordPutin: kinda fucked until site is up anyways
LordPutin: so when website is up can i reset my password?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05429429 = 0.1629 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0666 = 0.1332 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: with magic cards, more than likely
benkay: ah goodness you're a lifeboat guy
benkay: ah its neat to see lifeboat folks in here
ozbot: Bitcoin Wallet.dat with 629.56 BTC but i lost my 4 Digit password
chetty: why does anyone use webwallets ? I really am curious
benkay: the BSc in Immunology might not be a bad place to start, bitcoinpete
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25367 @ 0.00079831 = 20.2507 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: chetty: convenience and idiocy?
chetty: idiocy I get but convenience? like eating fast food?
moiety: well ours just got entirely fucked over but we had half site funds in cold storage
moiety: hence no moiety for couple days
benkay: ah that's where you've been. too bad to hear, moiety. what happened?
benkay: chetty: mcdonald's is delicious if you've never had a hamburger.
moiety: someone found an exploit and abused the fuck out of it. they actually were honest and paid back but someone else witnessed it and weren't so honest. generated a huge fake balance which they tipped out. emptying our wallet.
moiety: leaving me with a total shit storm to deal with
moiety: recovered a fair bit though :)
moiety: not btc!!! << play money as mircea woould say :P
benkay: yeah my eyes widened slightly for a second before reason kicked in
moiety: would never keep 100k+btc in hot
moiety: people are pricks seriously
moiety: present company excluded obvs
moiety: how have you guys been. yesterdays loges made me laugh
moiety: some people just dont give up huh?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6514 @ 0.00080062 = 5.2152 BTC [+]
benkay: honestly rather glad i was traveling.
moiety: lol joe you stay away from my wallet with that name XD
moiety: benkay: anywhere nice?
benkay: the place is kinda fascinating
benkay: in a 'wheels come off society everything headed for oblivion and everyone singing blithely' sort of way
benkay: it's just not polite to say to the babe's family that their part of the world will be delivered unto the ocean along with them and all of their systems of belief and we'll all be much better for it.
benkay: theme park for nominally adult people.
benkay: and we didn't even make it to disneyland!
moiety: and err youre right, i'd keep that to yourself re the 'rents XD
bitcoinpete: benkay: well, in a nutshell, those were the dreams-of-smed-school days, a dream resolved by B- grades and a lot of poker. after undergrad, this being alberta, i spent a year selling trucks and started blogging. after selling truck got boring, i did an after-degree in environmental health and spent 2.5 years working as a public health inspector with the province. then…bitcoin. always had an interest in tech, investing,
moiety: nanight benkay :) sleep well
benkay: i was just headed out, figured i'd spooked ya ;)
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: I assume you are aware that Romania has a MLA treaty with the US
bitcoinpete: i had to hone my message, is all. still a lazy effort but alas
joecruel: antephialtic: i assume you are aware mircea is not currently in the channel
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62896897 = 1.2579 BTC [+]
moiety: i have to ask every time which way round it goes lol
benkay: bitcoinpete: you're likely in a better position to more thoroughly dox me than mp already has
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 900 @ 0.00082311 = 0.7408 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00419804 = 2.099 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.05300002 = 0.424 BTC [-] {2}
dhenson: lol @ MP's exchange with the SEC.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 12 @ 0.06882051 = 0.8258 BTC [+] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05316725 = 0.1595 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1674 @ 0.00015915 = 0.2664 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 87 @ 0.00197917 = 0.1722 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61002 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33000 @ 0.00080532 = 26.5756 BTC [+] {2}
antephialtic: dhenson: I'm worried for MP. Romania has a MLAT with the US. They can request romanian gov to compel MP to produce MPEx records
ozbot: BitBeat: Bitcoin Gets Shakespearean - MoneyBeat - WSJ
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.00432793 = 0.2986 BTC [-] {4}
chetty: Bitcoiners are none too pleased with Warren Buffett, and one acolyte is putting his bitcoin where his mouth is.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1916 @ 0.00080598 = 1.5443 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6465 @ 0.00080685 = 5.2163 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00080429 = 12.2654 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9066 @ 0.00080685 = 7.3149 BTC [+]
Angusm3: anyone selling 0.1 bitcoin?
Angusm3: I'm buying 0.1 bitcoin for $65 CAD
KRS-1: Hey check it out Angusm3
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000001 = 0.35 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10638 @ 0.00080685 = 8.5833 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26483 @ 0.00080425 = 21.299 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: i thought i'd fallen into otc for a minute
kakobrekla: naw, i grep chan for mentions who rang
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00080685 = 11.1749 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47014 @ 0.00080288 = 37.7466 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1498 @ 0.00015996 = 0.2396 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2820 @ 0.00015999 = 0.4512 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32050 @ 0.00080713 = 25.8685 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00080865 = 24.1382 BTC [+] {3}
KRS-1: gross too manish for me
KRS-1: thats like a dude with boobs.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05260503 = 0.1052 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06775 = 0.1355 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31950 @ 0.00081001 = 25.8798 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00080906 = 9.2637 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.61 = 2.44 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.6022004 = 6.022 BTC [-] {6}
LordPutin: i hope mp doesn't snitch on all of us to sec, i'm scared
HeySteve: SEC seems pretty toothless to rein in Wall Street
HeySteve: not sure they'll have much better luck with Bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00081038 = 30.2677 BTC [+]
LordPutin: they havea file on you as well dood
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11067 @ 0.00081038 = 8.9685 BTC [+]
chetty: it just makes your irs file fatter
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1010 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.2675% in 6d 8h 39m 28s
only: wisdom of the crowd in action?
mircea_popescu: "all the humanistic victories of Soviet socialism" oh save me rwanda. asciilifeform what the fuck is the gent on about.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00432959 = 0.8659 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 828 @ 0.00432968 = 3.585 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 135 @ 0.00432982 = 0.5845 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 190 @ 0.00435 = 0.8265 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 395 @ 0.00438211 = 1.7309 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00081045 = 24.2325 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00439999 = 0.484 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.02566335 = 0.7956 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14244 @ 0.00081072 = 11.5479 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 632 @ 0.00015998 = 0.1011 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0008107 = 17.5922 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 75 @ 0.00596453 = 0.4473 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52518 @ 0.00081104 = 42.5942 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98850 @ 0.00081128 = 80.195 BTC [+] {3}
davout: x.eur wai u no volume?
davout: mircea_popescu: tiny walls shouldn't really matter since if you place an order the mm bot will now trade against it
davout: you'll get filled in bits of whatever its order size currently is
mircea_popescu: basically, sucess of a product - any product - is built out of predictable, dependable supply of good quality and some advertising.
davout: well, i'm now done with the former and getting busy with the latter right now
davout: two weeks, no volume, the mm must be running
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: no data 7 day: average: 0.00212399 high: 0.00213452 low: 0.00210539 volume: 2081 btc: 4.42002826 30 day: average: 0.0020996 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.0019005 volume: 7008 btc: 14.71400992
davout: let's see how this plays out
davout: basically my point is that the mm algo is now what i imagined it to be initially, so that it should work as everyone expects it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00080917 = 31.8408 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 203 @ 0.00417098 = 0.8467 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: huh, a guy from -otc has apparently been asked to appear on one of those pawn shop reality tv shows with his casascius coins
Neil: mircea_popescu> Neil wanna bet on that ? << Time lapse, no idea what you're referring to.
mircea_popescu: Neil something you said about no more diff jumps over 20%
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00417041 = 0.3336 BTC [-] {4}
Neil: mircea_popescu: Ah, absolutely. I intend to submit a bet soon but you or your stooges rejected my last one, so was waiting a while.
Neil: Quite happy to put money down
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 149 @ 0.0041704 = 0.6214 BTC [-] {3}
Neil: In fact I consider 20% too safe; was gonna make it more interesting.
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 992 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.7517% in 6d 5h 11m 16s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47100 @ 0.00081296 = 38.2904 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: the beauty of a functioning free market, which bitbet amply is by now, is that it really doesn't matter so much : whatever value you pick the odds will probably stack correctly.
Neil: Would be interesting to see a plot of, um, what? Implied odds vs time?
Neil: With final outcome?
Neil: There are some that just turn out to be flukes at the last moment (like the gox collapse in the last 2 weeks of the gox price > 150 bet)
mircea_popescu: there's a plot of that in every bet, that little rectangle.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla how about expanding the histograph to fill the whole section ?
mircea_popescu: like instead of going to the right of Histograph: make it go under
Neil: b.t.w. I claim full credit for the 10% bet
Neil: Well given the above info it's a matter of public record what my initial bet was. What happened thereafter is for you to guess and me to know.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the mod stacked it 9/1, exactly opposite of the 1/11 the bettors stacked it.
nubbins`: i'm trying to construct a reasonably sound bet on the price of s.mg, and i'm wondering if anyone has input on the conditions
nubbins`: the low volume presents a dilemma tho
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 7 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 30 day: average: 0.0001239 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 11432 btc: 1.4163868
nubbins`: didn't want some bozo with a spare 20btc to just buy up and own the bet
nubbins`: is there a max limit to how far out? i was thinking april 1 2015
Neil: HExKIkoPb28rVbuOluqStOoBPMv4KqE9b1CiajC7EVABy2jYunQxN0BzhF9CXD1Z301C1Krsrd60pgw+DvQgPs4=
nubbins`: trying to find a way to turn this warrant into something that generates money before it's cashed ;D
Neil: Signature of "Neil" with the payout addr of the 10% bet
mircea_popescu: incidentally, people running bots : how about adding a command that will parse one of these sigsigned shits into human format ?
mircea_popescu: ;;sig HExKIkoPb28rVbuOluqStOoBPMv4KqE9b1CiajC7EVABy2jYunQxN0BzhF9CXD1Z301C1Krsrd60pgw+DvQgPs4= -> string "string" signed by address "adress" on date "date"
gribble: Error: "sig" is not a valid command.
Apocalyptic: mircea, I believe the address nor the date is included in the sig, it's just a b64 ecoding of binary data
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic because the powerfully retarded rangers are retarded. that format is fucking useless.
Neil: I think you need the signature, the message and the address. I doubt 2 of those 3 is enough for software
Neil: Not even sure it's possible without the actual public key. Is it?
mircea_popescu: i've never read how sigsig is actually implemented in code.
BingoBoingo: I was under the impression the sig contained the unhashed Pub key of an address
kakobrekla: yes address is good enough, still need all 3
Neil: BingoBoingo: I suspect you're right
mircea_popescu: lol china accepts new zealand dollar convertibility ?!
Neil: mircea_popescu: Was amusing to read your 1-way conversation with the SEC. Did they respond beyond what you posted, or did it just go silent?
Neil: Cool, thought as much
Duffer1: they'd need more than just a request from a functionary in order for things to get more interesting
Neil: waxman had enough of being made the fool of
mircea_popescu: she spent 100k / 10 years in school in order to find a shitty office job,
Neil: Well, that's her choice. My jobs sucks, so I quit
mircea_popescu: which requires her basically to try and get people to talk to her on the phone
mircea_popescu: she's no different from the average indian girl, except the indian girl is 19 not 29
Neil: But given her intro, I'm sure she loved the effect that "enforcement office for the SEC" or whatever it was had on 90% of the plebs
mircea_popescu: so really, it sucks to be her in ways one doesn't really fathom
ozbot: Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract Cognitive Resurrected on[Havelock]
mircea_popescu: Neil so people think, but from what i know the bureaucrats rarely actually enjoy their job
Neil: mircea_popescu: I'm certain you're right.
Neil: But unluckily for them it's the best they've got, in most cases
mircea_popescu: if given the choice, this girl would have been doing something a little less retarded with her life.
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: I was about to post that, Mining Company can't operate shovels, sells shovels
kakobrekla: i already told them what they are figuring out now, half a year ago
BingoBoingo: Interesting to see how many alts Garr can manage for all of this shill bidding
mircea_popescu: You are the sort of brainwashed halfwit who thinks the responsibility for the lost BTC of MtGOX customers lies with the customers, because "it's their fault for using MtGOX".
Neil: I hope the next 5 years makes joe blow aware of his level of brainwashing. But not holding my breath.
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide
Neil: Yesterday had "exit interview" at bigcorp from which I resigned my shitty job.
Neil: As always, asked to sign "Confidentiality agreement". Turned up without said paper, amongst all the rest.
Neil: Usual game of "didn't we ask send you the papers".
Duffer1: they'll dick around with your severance if you don't sign that
Neil: "Yes". "But I'm not gonna sign it for you for the first time, given my history of not signing this shit". "Oh, OK."
ozbot: Possible Scammer - John K
Neil: Duffer1: This company has no leverage at all! The previous one did, but still did nothing. It's all just lawyer crap.
Neil: Previous one had about $250k of restricted stock.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Well he was the escrow for so many shitty forum things
mircea_popescu: namworld / jurov what's BingoBoingo;s link all about ?
Neil: That $250k went straight into BTC as soon as it could
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no but this happens to be connected, scrat;s runnig coinroll or something, afaik
jurov: well John K was holding 100btc escrow for coinroll raffle
BingoBoingo: This whole John K escrow thing just shows why Multisig is super bad
jurov: for purpose if Scrat was not available or whatever
jurov: and indeed it happened, but John did not pay
jurov: and he's still silent even after Scrast told him to
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.06666024 = 0.6666 BTC [-] {4}
HeySteve: I had funds with JohnK during his long unexplained absence
HeySteve: I thought he made good with everyone, or is this a new episode?
ozbot: Five-Year-Old Mutton Bustin' Rider Eats It
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15711 @ 0.00080959 = 12.7195 BTC [-]
Neil: I recall there was a John K scam accusation that lasted about 3 wks last September-ish, and went quiet in an unconvincing way.
Neil: So not surprised to see this now
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 440 @ 0.00223045 = 0.9814 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07 = 0.21 BTC [-]
HeySteve: is there someone you guys would recommend to handle escrow?
mircea_popescu: HeySteve i have a few btc in escrow with salty spitoon atm
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 160 @ 0.00223045 = 0.3569 BTC [+]
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: average: 0.00223045 high: 0.00223045 low: 0.00223045 volume: 600 btc: 1.33827 7 day: average: 0.00214782 high: 0.00223045 low: 0.00210539 volume: 2681 btc: 5.75829826 30 day: average: 0.00210992 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.0019005 volume: 7608 btc: 16.05227992
nubbins`: i've done maybe 10btc worth of deals and escrow with salty
nubbins`: he's not on irc tho, forums only
HeySteve: ok thanks, will speak to salty next time
nubbins`: i'd offer to escrow, but who am i, anyway? :D
gribble: Error: "getrust" is not a valid command.
Neil: mircea_popescu: Kinda surprised by your faith in WoT. I'm not on it, but have had many dealings with reputable "players". Not sure I believe anything on it, given the rep it assigned to "pirateat40" just before he "did the inevitable".
nubbins`: HeySteve: well, if you don't have a WoT identity, ;;gettrust isn't going to do anything for you :)
HeySteve: do I need to be registered for WoT?
Neil: mircea_popescu: Maybe, maybe not.
ozbot: Rating Details for User 'anduck'
Neil: Read a lot of garbage. Signal-to-noise is tought.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 143 @ 0.00416001 = 0.5949 BTC [-]
gribble: You rated user anduck on Thu Nov 7 11:50:53 2013, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: patron of the arts.
nubbins`: and they say government grants are the only way to make a living in the arts.
mircea_popescu: that's nice, but this is a public channel and it is logged, as per the topic.
BingoBoingo: Daphna_A_Waxman_: Actually this channel is recorded and logged
mircea_popescu: that aside, when did you get transferred to thailand ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 387 @ 0.00416 = 1.6099 BTC [-]
Neil: mircea_popescu: Yeah. Not sure if MP == MPOE, but yeah I realize most of that. I've felt it's not worth the effort (small group of people who know each other in real life has been enough so far) but I get the point, but not convinced yet.
nubbins`: HeySteve: /msg gribble help eregister is as good a place as any to stary
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 269 @ 0.0041103 = 1.1057 BTC [-] {2}
Neil: Workage == low, it seems so far
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, the wot existed in other implementations every time small groups wanted to trade on a large scale.
HeySteve: thanks Nubbins, will do so. been meaning to check out the system for a while
mircea_popescu: basically you're telling me that you don't need a hansa seal because you only trade in novgorod
nubbins`: it's one of those things that behooves you to get straightened away sooner rather than later
mircea_popescu: good for you, but once you wish to send your kid to marry some chick in goteborg you damned straight will.
Neil: But for that reason I found it amusing you asking that waxman loser to get herself on WoT
HeySteve: SEC was fiddling while Rome burnt
LordPutin: i'm worried about sec is going to do to mp next :(
LordPutin: we need mp in the bitcoin community
Neil: bitcoin doesn't need a community or anything or anyone. That's why it rocks.
mircea_popescu: LordPutin i read somewhar on the forum that he's a dinosaur - well, at least when wearing heels - and will soon be superseded by some random forumer with opinions
Neil: But there exists a bunch of interesting characters. That's undeniable.
nubbins`: i bet you think nikita is a girl's name, too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00080828 = 36.6959 BTC [-] {3}
Neil: Eh? I work with a nikita. Convinced it's a dude.
HeySteve: ok nubbins, I have a GPG key, will work through this
Shakespeare: "The Apaches were never defeated because they didn't fight in the open" well...
nubbins`: great. upload it to a keyserver, /msg gribble eregister heysteve <key id>, and you're off
nubbins`: oh, and keep your keys safe ;(
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 96 @ 0.00411 = 0.3946 BTC [-]
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
jurov: so you did not hear from them since?
nubbins`: dat inconsistent capitalization
mircea_popescu: this is extremely lulzy, especially seeing how the girl claimed (and i believe her) tyhat she can't get on freenode.
Anduck: mircea_popescu: negbombers. gettrust matters
mircea_popescu: so on one hand, they can't do their jobs. on the other, jacking off all day anyway
Shakespeare: the pdf says itself the whole thing is voluntary
Duffer1: "This inquiry is non-public.."
only: Erik, quick, get a Romanian passport
only: you need a Moldavian one, first, and you can actually buy one
Shakespeare: "In one instance, a regional office staff account admitted viewing pornography on his office computer and on his SEC-issued laptop while on official government travel. Another staff account received nearly 1,800 access denials for pornography Web sites in a two-week period and had more than 600 images saved on her laptop’s hard drive, the report said."
Shakespeare: "A senior attorney at SEC headquarters in Washington admitted he sometimes spent as much as eight hours viewing pornography from his office computer, according to the report. The attorney’s computer ran out of space for the downloaded images, so he started storing them on CDs and DVDs that he stored in his office."
nubbins`: "well, the last 1,799 times i've tried to load motherless, it's been blocked... maybe today is the day"
Shakespeare: "This stunning report should make everyone question the wisdom of moving forward with plans to give regulators like the SEC even more widespread authority," Issa said
LordPutin: why are theyso interested in s.diceanyway, was the sale illegal?
Shakespeare: well as i understand it, most SEC investigations are a reaction
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [7C] 50 @ 0.00284602 = 0.1423 BTC [-]
Shakespeare: if i had to guess, it'd be someone who either felt gypped by his offering of the added tranches, and/or someone that felt gypped by the closing settlement
nubbins`: my mother is a gypsy, you insensitive clod
Duffer1: or the IRS just looking for its pound of flesh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.601 BTC [-]
Shakespeare: well at least her people stole a verb outta the deal
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00596183 = 0.5962 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.08001 = 0.8001 BTC [-] {2}
Neil: "Trapped in the indecision of another fine menu". Love it
HeySteve: hey nubbins, I made a new cert and put the revoke on an encrypted volume. any idea where GPG places the cert itself in Windows?
nubbins`: you can export your private key pretty easily via command line
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.02125914 = 0.2126 BTC [-] {4}
HeySteve: ok but I want to place the original in the encrypted volume so no one can access it (easily)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.01600027 = 0.32 BTC [-] {2}
HeySteve: or is that stored within GPG somehow and not accessible? still pretty new at this stuff
nubbins`: nod. no idea where it's stored right now, but export spits it out as plaintext
nubbins`: which you can then copy, paste into a text file on your encrypted whatever
only: or a buthurt gambler, perhaps?
HeySteve: I see, should probably work out if there's another copy just hanging around on the HD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18078 @ 0.00080959 = 14.6358 BTC [+]
nubbins`: probably, but it's encrypted with your impossibly long, difficult to guess passphrase
nubbins`: gpg --export-secret-key -a "username"
nubbins`: gpg --export-secret-key -a "username" --output privatekey.asc
nubbins`: it'd be prudent to try restoring these keys on another machine, as well
nubbins`: what's the usefulness of a backup you can't restore, etc
Shakespeare: "The Fed has been targeting a 6.5% unemployment rate as a gauge to start discussing when to raise interest rates. But several Fed officials have said they don’t find the jobless rate reference useful now that the rate, at 6.7% in February, is near the 6.5% threshold."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 63 @ 0.00181043 = 0.1141 BTC [-] {11}
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 977 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.4696% in 6d 1h 37m 20s
HeySteve: I can get it to display the key but not output to a file for some reason
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.05427484 = 1.0855 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00080973 = 16.4375 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.0666 = 0.4662 BTC [-]
HeySteve: you have to put the output switch upfront is all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.05438232 = 0.9245 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 14 @ 0.05558566 = 0.7782 BTC [+] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05685 = 0.1137 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06583333 = 0.1975 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
Shakespeare: yknow who needs to be jailed, the Domain Registry of America people
Shakespeare: they send snailmail to clients all the time as what appears to be a renewal bill
Neil: "The Fed has been targeting a 6.5%..." Joke? Like they think they can target anything? The world gets on witih it, they sit there observing.
artifexd: I put my gpg key id on my website. Should I link it to a plain text file of the key or to its location on a key server?
mircea_popescu: "Another staff account received nearly 1,800 access denials for pornography Web sites in a two-week period and had more than 600 images saved on her laptop’s hard drive, the report said." << HER drive ?!
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare this will be nice data for when people start bitching about .bait
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 42 @ 0.0056706 = 0.2382 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: artifexd, but I would rather go for the plain text file I think
mircea_popescu: "The new behavior of `walletpassphrase` is to set a new unlock time overriding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42595 @ 0.00081027 = 34.5135 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
artifexd: Apocalyptic Thank you for your opinion.
Ghaleon: you kicked serious ass brother
Ghaleon: the writing was also excellent
Ghaleon: Ms. Waxman was shocked I am sure
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0551034 = 0.1653 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.065 = 0.195 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00081344 = 14.8046 BTC [+]
Ghaleon: telling a Sec investigator to find you on IRC..... that will go down in history
mircea_popescu: i tell that to everyone, what. people gotta get with the times.
Ghaleon: imagine Ben Bernanke pops up here
Ghaleon: without Spamming Ben will fade away... the boy must spam to sustain himself
mpexbot: nubbins`: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 7 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 30 day: average: 0.0001239 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 11432 btc: 1.4163868
Ghaleon: yeah but Ben still has the US NAVY in his pocket
ozbot: Bitcoins are like 'glass beads', warns Danish national bank | Technology | theguardian.com
kakobrekla: so discussion about baning him is fruitless
Ghaleon: it is a battle of inches folks. we are making awesome ground. a peoples currency will remove their main pillar of control
BingoBoingo: Wonder if it will turn into a 1000 BTC+ nailbiter near the end
Shakespeare: "UK's new 12-sided £1 said to be the world's most secure coin"
gribble: User 'HeySteve', with keyid F8E87076CA58441F, fingerprint B14929A9933420C966FB409EF8E87076CA58441F, and bitcoin address None, registered on Wed Mar 19 11:30:37 2014.
http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=HeySteve . Currently authenticated from hostmask HeySteve!HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve .
kakobrekla: i thought the great invetion was the wheel
Shakespeare: Reverend Jesse Jackson calls out Silicon Valley for lack of racial and gender diversity
kakobrekla: you only have 4 genders there? UNACEPTABRU
Shakespeare: must import katecraig to reach homeostasis
ozbot: Putin: Crimea similar to Kosovo, West is rewriting its own rule book (FULL SPEECH) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: he should simply speak of the us, drive the eu wedge all the way.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06649992 = 0.1995 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ("i didn't cheat on you honey, the us forced me me!!1 I was duped, and raped!! ")
LordPutin: Putin should just be the president of europe
nubbins`: does bitbet explicitly state that it uses UTC, or should a bet itself make note of this?
LordPutin: 20mins in he starts talkign about the us
Ghaleon: Mircea, good point about driving a wedge between ruope and the usa
Ghaleon: Europe sees how cool and fair Putin is... people r getting sick of the usa's meddling and hypocrisy
LordPutin: i'm going to name my kid putin because i want him to grow up strong and handsome
mircea_popescu: Ghaleon no, more like europe doesn't give a shit and needs the gas.
mircea_popescu: "man faces a felony charge after he was arrested by police at a township board meeting when he refused to stop talking past a three-minute time limit for public comment. "
nubbins`: man can no longer vote after speaking for 181 seconds
Ghaleon: we are going thru our Boleshevik revolution now here in the usa
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: you heard
nubbins`: "For this bet to resolve as YES, 30-day VWAP of S.MG must be above 0.0002 on MPEx on October 1, 2014." << thoughts? seem simple enough?
mike_c_z: you specifically want "on"? not "on or before"?
nubbins`: don't want some schmo arguing about havelock PT
mircea_popescu: "This is shocking, because nobody in the world has ever seen a penis before. Life as we know it will never be the same."
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: poopsterbate
nubbins`: mike_c_z: specifically on october 1, yep
nubbins`: i don't want to have to be constantly checking it
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | None based on data since last change | 4616703922.4 based on data for last three days
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 975 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.0906% in 6d 2h 4m 7s
Shakespeare: Auto dealers fire back at Tesla CEO: 'This Musk guy, he wants all the profits for himself'
Shakespeare: "They wanted to go direct, which means no sales force. That’s cutting out a lot of people. No way that’s gonna fly."
mike_c_z: "During negotiations Musk left the auto dealers waiting for two hours while he checked with his manager"
mircea_popescu: they figure they're worth something on the grounds they exist.
sheldonthomas: hi. are havelock investment questions relevant in this channel
sheldonthomas: in the neobee prospectus it says "LMB Holdings, nor any employee, affiliate, or consultant are liable for any losses caused by default, theft, exploitation, manipulation, “hacking”, or software errors within the host exchange."
☟︎ jurov: only havelock staff is not here
nubbins`: guess they forgot the "Neither"
jurov: sheldonthomas you plan to exploit it?
gribble: topace was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <topace> ^ you'll have to contact support
sheldonthomas: no exploit -- but i must admit, that's a surefire way to turn off a prospective investor
jurov: mike_c: topace isn't the staff for several months already
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10805 @ 0.00081333 = 8.788 BTC [-]
mike_c: well, he's still staff. just not owner.
mircea_popescu: sheldonthomas they're experts with actual lawyers and everything, not some random clueless kids without an education
mircea_popescu: as a result their contracts say exactly what they mean : LMB is responsible for any havelock theft etc
mircea_popescu: nubbins` there's no sauch thing as poor wording in a contracxt.
jurov: kakobrekla even if he still is, he defers everything to panamanians
sheldonthomas: at mircea that's very enlightening thanks for the clarification
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla he claims he's no longer involved, quite transparently fraudulently.
mike_c: he claims he is technical side only
kakobrekla: fuckin noobs not reading the log, i hate those
sheldonthomas: mircea_popescu but upon further thought the sentence still doesn't make sense because of "nor" in the context of making an action-positive statement
topace: i am indeed no longer involved with the BUSINESS side of havelock
kakobrekla: topace is there an official statement re you and hl
topace: but i am still involved in the technical side
Shakespeare: the wording has been updated for clarification
sheldonthomas: it needs the word "Neither" at the beginning or to not use the word "nor" at all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.34873140 BTC to 3`970 shares, 59162 satoshi per share
topace: November 1, 2013 officially the operation of havelock was handed off to the panama fund s.a.
jurov: topace, can't you make them man the irc? so that they aren't so outrageously clueless?
nubbins`: "19-03-2014PendingMark Karpeles, Mt. Gox CEO, to be Murdered or Imprisoned"
kakobrekla: its a pass the bomb kinda thing, nefario and ukyo failed on that
jurov: mircea in the process of coiroll listing, we are interacting with some virtual entities that seem too stupid to be completely virtual
topace: no, i cant make them "man the irc"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] [PAID] 1.99112370 BTC to 13`595 shares, 14646 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.0542 = 0.542 BTC [-] {4}
topace: the offices are real, feel free to visit them in panama, several community members already have
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Or we don't even send the check and then when they call, we pretend we're the cleaning service. Heh heh. "Hello? I sorry, no here Kruger."
LordPutin: please allow that Mark Karpelas bet to happen
nubbins`: putting out a murder-for-hire does indeed break the rules
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05559995 = 0.1112 BTC [+] {2}
jcpham: i already dialed 911 and reported the chat
mircea_popescu: there's exactly 0 way he can end up in jail this year.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00449839 = 0.2249 BTC [-] {4}
kakobrekla: i would have thrown myself outta window
ozbot: 28-Year Old Former JPMorgan Banker Jumps To His Death, Latest In Series Of Recent Suicides | Zero He
LordPutin: i would like to see a bitbet that australia wontwin a single group match for the world cup this year
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05435 = 0.1087 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: don't forget to include which sport it is
only: asciilifeform: isn't 28 a bit kindof early?
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.MAR 1 day: no data 7 day: no data 30 day: average: 0.00294764 high: 0.003 low: 0.00290837 volume: 350 btc: 1.031674
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
nubbins`: zerohedge sure does know how to make a comment thread easy to read
nubbins`: i find i digest information most easily when it's crammed into a fuckin one-inch column
jurov: mircea_popescu: you already liquidating it? just got something
nubbins`: "reader comments: now easier than ever to pass"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06729989 = 0.3365 BTC [+] {4}
ozbot: The hunter becomes the hunted: insect evolves to eat poisonous corn | The Verge
ThickAsThieves: a friend of mine actually is one of the scientists working on these kind bug killers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74537 @ 0.00080863 = 60.2729 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: you ever get your mp-as-hitler portrait sorted after?
nubbins`: thestringpuller was commissioning a portrait of you for the conference, but he sat on his hands too long and it won't be ready
nubbins`: shame, it was gonna be pretty sick
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.06981818 = 0.768 BTC [-] {4}
ozbot: X.IDIFF.MAR has settled. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ThickAsThieves: "I see myself forced to conclude the contract is not well understood by market participants, which is a problem that will have to be addressed."
jurov: ^ yes, i'm very curious how circumspectly is mp gonna fix it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.0008128 = 31.0083 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i thought we could just show up in romania on the 17th and just listen to what people had to say
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: there was no official registration except for VIP's
jurov: mircea you refused several times to publish the cumulative cover
jurov: so that it would be clear to everyone how much it is
ThickAsThieves: well i havent thought much on recently, but you could publish what it actually is
mircea_popescu: but it was clear to everyone that 2.9x times previous cover would be a top limit i would imagine
mike_c: the contract was understood by whoever sold contracts above the limit :)
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so i don't cap it. you come to make a contract, have to deposit infinity btc.
thestringpuller: nubbins`: we can still go further with it how bout I send you more btc rite nao?
jurov: or 2.9*2.9*previous, or whatever
mike_c: so probably half the participants understood
mircea_popescu: options are settled in btc. this is not settled in hashes.
mircea_popescu: if there existed a way to physically deliver we wouldn't have this problem at all.
nubbins`: thestringpuller: sure, whatever works for you
thestringpuller: how would physical delivery keep you from having to deliver infinite usd?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller because you could sell 1trn hashes per contract or somesuch.
mike_c: i don't see the problem. 350 contracts sold over the last 30 days by someone who didn't understand. so they lost .1 btc and now they understand.
kakobrekla: cant be booted if one doesnt join in the first place
mike_c: everyone else understood, and didn't trade.
thestringpuller: infinity is not finite, it's unreachable someone might as well physically deliver you a printer
BingoBoingo: Maybe being Satoshi was Bernake's way of hating his day job
mircea_popescu: mike_c i guess so. was it actually one party doing it ?
mike_c: there were only a few bids up above the cap. the seller was likely probably one person :)
ThickAsThieves: so you can cling to the current design and blame the user
ThickAsThieves: or you can accept that you do have power over the design
mircea_popescu: power over the design i have, but over reality i do not.
mike_c: so the suggestion is contracts with different caps?
mircea_popescu: contracts with different caps are different contracts.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I imagine that could be one of the happiest Bitcoins you could ever part with
benkay: a man once spoke to me about explicit collateralization of options.
benkay: i informed him it'd make for a downright wacky marketplace.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I know the benkay and bitcoinpete readings of the emails are that the SEC will crash into you. I like to think that decoding your last email has been assigned to a few committees and all of the summer interns
ThickAsThieves: i wonder how badly they even want to bother with sorting you out
benkay: if he straight up ignored the girl she'd probably go bonkers
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Well if they are reading the logs, I would be happy to sort them out with the GPG and registering with the WoT
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37704 @ 0.00080693 = 30.4245 BTC [-] {3}
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: that's hilarious. :-) Thank you for sharing with us your SEC interaction; I hope you continue to do so. For what it's worth, I am being sincere.
mike_c: ;;calc e ** (log(2.9)/6)
mike_c: if difficulty increases stay this low, cap won't be a problem
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00080665 = 19.8436 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38750 @ 0.00081406 = 31.5448 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.05497645 = 0.9346 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06610012 = 0.1322 BTC [-]
ozbot: Britain reveals new 12-sided pound coin - Business - CBC News
assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.
assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.MINE] 1D: 0.05250001 / 0.0542931 / 0.05710000 (152 shares, 8.25255158 BTC), 7D: 0.03960000 / 0.04840514 / 0.06902300 (1585 shares, 76.72214039 BTC), 30D: 0.03960000 / 0.05003398 / 0.06902300 (6430 shares, 321.71848642 BTC)
ozbot: MODERATORS OF THIS FORUM ARE DEFENDING BLOODY ZIONISTS
kakobrekla: so this ltc pump is driven by knc making scrypt asic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.05499998 = 0.33 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06610004 = 0.1322 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Hard to tell, last night someone blamed the LTC rally on China
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.11950724 = 1.1951 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Well, for most people most things are either myth or magic
BingoBoingo: One can spend all day imagine brains with an MRI tube without having the slightest idea about what Magnetic Resonance is.
mircea_popescu: "I don't get it. Why do you insist on making everyone think MPOE-PR is not MP? Why deceive your customers with something so trivial to figure out?
ThickAsThieves: best evidence i have is "last I heard from a chinese parent in my kids chinese class (which was maybe a few months back) in that in China EVERYONE was into litecoin."
mircea_popescu: i should take a bet for when this mpoe-pr = mp thing finally dies.
BingoBoingo: bitcoinmagazine.com/11259/illinois-virtual-currency-and-the-transmitters-of-money-act/
nubbins`: man i've got this fuckin dorian stuck for days now
BingoBoingo: Shit might be useful if people announced things were happening today on a timeline with greater advanced notice than a single day
BCB: who runs this channel
BCB: mircea_popescu: ballsy
BingoBoingo: BCB: Generally kakobrekla runs the channel MP's handle is...
BCB: mircea_popescu: you command of the english language is impressive
ThickAsThieves: "Today, however, founder Tim Sweeney is announcing a new business model: Epic will charge just $19 a month, and 5 percent of a game developer's gross revenue, for access to the complete Unreal Engine set of tools and even its source code."
mircea_popescu: BCB As the wolly-haired Melanasians of Papua, New Guinea once said, (Makes a series of clicking and popping sounds)
ozbot: BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2015
nubbins`: does it usually take a while for initial bets to appear?
nubbins`: i sent one along immediately after submitting the bet
nubbins`: figured i'd sweeten the pot a bit
BingoBoingo: I still can't believe Illinois did not invite me to their hearing on Virtual currencies as an honored distinguished guest, and that news of it happening didn't even reach me until it is two hours too late to start driving and make it on time.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299998 = 0.365 BTC [+]
nubbins`: [14:50:31] <Inkata> can anyone point me to a modern way to sign contracts? real-life contracts with crypto?
nubbins`: surely there's an article written on this, anyone got a title handy??
BingoBoingo: Eh, Maybe I'll find out about Missouri's version of this thing in time. Jefferson city is a more pleasant drive than Springfield anyways
mircea_popescu: nubbins` but otherwise you can just you know... show him a mpex contract
mircea_popescu: three years later they're still the standard in practice
BingoBoingo: ;;google the drinking record digital signatures
mircea_popescu: you can trivially print out gpg signed contracts, sign on the paper, and register them
mircea_popescu: for what it's worth the opinions i have re likely romanian court reaction would be that should a signature be repudiated you have about 2:3 chances to get the judge to process the pgp part of the text.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2784 @ 0.00014332 = 0.399 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: in which case the judge'd definitely see through the pgp.
mircea_popescu: btc will pose some very srious problems to legal systems based on caselaw, perhaps enough so to make them unworkable in practice
mircea_popescu: this, however, is a head of the hydra burried for another two decades.
novusordo: until recently, I'd never visited trilema.com on a windows machine
novusordo: yesterday I did, and was quite disappointed
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But it took so much more electricity to electricute the first street drunk verus than the first idiot
novusordo: mircea_popescu: yeah, I looked at the CSS because I thought it was a fall-back font
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Ethanol is a crude anti-convulsant and is rather neuroprotective against these things.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.053601 = 0.3216 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.067 = 0.402 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: Then again the street drunk would need to be drunk to enjoy this protection
BingoBoingo: electrocuting someone in the throes of Delirium tremens wouldn't be sporting at all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 47 @ 0.08 = 3.76 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.0682 = 0.7502 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.06811222 = 0.2724 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: they should really note that somewhere on the page
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00081096 = 12.2049 BTC [-]
benkay: carsam - lurking or confused? ;)
ozbot: BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2015
BCB: mircea_popescu: I want to meet you when you come to New York.
BCB: mircea_popescu: why's that?
nubbins`: that's actually not the bet i submitted
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is the cellar a wine cellar?
BCB: asciilifeform: cork-lined - they are actually cement
kakobrekla: nubbins` it seems bet was altered by the mods
BCB: mircea_popescu: SEC will fly you on their private jet
mircea_popescu: BCB well cause i don't intend to visit the us till they dissolve the homeland security crap and put the people responsible on trial.
BCB: mircea_popescu: I don't think you'll have a choice in the matter.
Duffer1: lmao reminds me of some of the reddit comments about the trilema article
BCB: asciilifeform: they don't need a trial. Just and indictment
mircea_popescu: BCB well so then how would we meed in this counterfactual future you propose ?
nubbins`: do mods often change bet conditions after money has been sent in?
BCB: mircea_popescu: I'd be standing in the crowd during your perp walk
Duffer1: more americans thoroughly unaware of their complete irrelevance
chetty: oct 2015 - thats more than 1 year ...
BCB: mircea_popescu: I'll have a pink carnation in my lapel
kakobrekla: i didnt know we support bets that long lel
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 120 @ 0.00598635 = 0.7184 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: i just asked google what time it is and it says "yesternow"
nubbins`: i thought that was just the name of a miles davis song D:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30121 @ 0.00081495 = 24.5471 BTC [+]
artifexd: Is it irony that #netsec was hacked?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00081541 = 26.2154 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: "I heard that Leah McGrath Goodman is writing an article that proves that "Mircea Popescu" is in fact Erik Voorhees."
nubbins`: are there any other OOP rags looking to make a comeback?
jborkl: mircea does not look good in red
ozbot: AbsoluteZero2 comments on MP was approached by the SEC about Bitcoin exchanges; handled it very prof
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7408 @ 0.00081565 = 6.0423 BTC [+]
dexX7: wow.. some people can turn everything into fud: "If you have ownership of BTC-denominated securities such as those traded on Havelock or MPEx (such as NEOBEE, S.DICE, S.MPOE, etc.) now would be a good time to talk to a lawyer."
dexX7: "Why is Havelock Investments in the SEC's crosshairs? I made an account with them, but never bought anything. Should I be worried?" "Can you get in trouble for just a few mBTC?" ...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 330 @ 0.00401153 = 1.3238 BTC [-] {5}
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, if you need a trained Librarian.
BingoBoingo: Ah, isn't that kind of the operation you are running atm?
BingoBoingo: I've always wondered why more marksmanship classes aren't taught with a mirrored target
mircea_popescu: A revealing exchange about an exchange that isn't revealing?
mircea_popescu: "At least MP is an asshole equally to everyone, there is some amount of credibility in that."
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm kind of wondering why it isn't standard already. One's own face ought to offer better anatomical context at the range than those circles
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Getting the scale right, etc
mircea_popescu: "Based on the toxic and self righteous writing style, i'm pretty sure it's him. He would never admit it though, as the account has always made fun of anyone calling it a man."
BingoBoingo: "They were asking for voluntary cooperation. All he had to say was "no thank you." You can bet if they had any legal or authoritative standing they wouldn't be asking they'd be taking/demanding."
praeconium: Good evening, where do You get historical prices of various coins?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53756 @ 0.00081523 = 43.8235 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: "Subject: These users are now making more money in 1 hour than in their 9-5 dead-end job" "What could you do with $106 an hour?" << my spambox rules.
benkay: BingoBoingo: class is always in session in -assets.
praeconium: Do You trade other coins? I know I am not in right channel..
praeconium: Is there a channel where people trading on quantitative models talk?
BingoBoingo: benkay: Sure, but for some a physical campus with ammenities like horsehair robes and doors locked from the outside can provide motivation
benkay: praeconium: try ##econometrics
dexX7: praeconium: ##econometrics seems to be the most "professional" one re: investments and bitcoin, about bitcoin trading talk there is #bitcoin-pricetalk + #bitcoinmarkets
benkay: bit trolly from time to time, but hey it's irc
jborkl: that is closed and now is mtgox-talk
jcpham: people still talking about mtgox?
jborkl: mtgox-troll would be the best
praeconium: Thanks guys, I already got goxed so that was enough for now :)
praeconium: I am mainly interested to see how they go about acquiring hist and realtime data since there is so much variety.
praeconium: I am not really a quant, I know some basics and have knowledge of finance.. not so complex, tbh
jborkl: rtbtc was good, but the serviced gox and bitstamp
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.06694 = 1.0041 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: praeconium there was a guy by the name of herbi, doingsimilar things
jborkl: yeah, not any use right now
praeconium: mircea_popescu: but don't You think that many new ones will trade with similar patterns to old ones upon introduction or change of diffculty etc?
jborkl: btc-e has metatrader - I have not used it though
dexX7: there is a company that offers a quantitative model about btc (if that's the correct wording).. let me see, if i can find it
BingoBoingo: praeconium: Your best bet may be making #bitcoinquant then lurking here and directing interested people to your channels
mircea_popescu: roughly speaking, the risk of the exchange goxing you is high enough that your quant profits are irrelevant
mircea_popescu: which you won't likely, because it's a lot harder to predict turbulent flow than any one other thing
ozbot: Bitcoin Quant Modeling
nubbins`: you just need to build vestigial fly wingstubs into your model to account for turbulence
mircea_popescu: that said, more effort poured into that can't hurt anything
mircea_popescu: nubbins` note that they have sequenced the human genome, but haven't figured out the winglets.
praeconium: Random Walk is there, I don't look into getting model right :) I just want to implement my ideas.
praeconium: Bingo, I am really a bit more into talking with existing crowd.. :) but nice idea.
praeconium: mircea_popescu: what do You think of indexing alts?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8936 @ 0.000816 = 7.2918 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: afaik no serious work has been done on that so far at all.
praeconium: But mixing difficulty with capitalization
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 797 @ 0.00393491 = 3.1361 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00081206 = 56.763 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 130 @ 0.00388566 = 0.5051 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 120 @ 0.00385003 = 0.462 BTC [-] {5}
Shakespeare: soundtrack to that mark pic is Under Pressur
Shakespeare: the whip covering his butcrack makes it look odd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10619 @ 0.00080651 = 8.5643 BTC [-]
Shakespeare: "The participants could then each do a standard algorithm to generate consistent state. This might seem like a fantasy, but Byzantine algorithms like Bitcoin [Andreesen 2014] and Namecoin show that such systems are possible today."
ozbot: Blockchain.info (bIockchain) on Twitter
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.00013754 = 0.2063 BTC [-] {6}
dexX7: i'm still wondering, if jimmothy is on mpex' payroll
dexX7: i sent him a bait some weeks ago, but he didn't take it
mircea_popescu: or maybe he's just a random dork with no better entertainment options.
BingoBoingo: Well, it is always important to point out this is the record
benkay: BingoBoingo is actually tiberiusxiv
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2208 @ 0.00080691 = 1.7817 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: benkay: What was his deal anyways. That's like the fifth person I've been accused of being this week.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.60009616 = 9.6015 BTC [-] {8}
benkay: you'd probably know better than i.
benkay: BingoBoingo: just the best troll this channel has ever seen.
benkay: he's no troll - 100% authentic!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44000 @ 0.00080698 = 35.5071 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00384636 = 0.1154 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3392 @ 0.00080707 = 2.7376 BTC [+]
dexX7: i give luke much credit. he may be a troll (it's only what i heard several times), but his pool is remarkable for the different transaction policies and the only one to push non-standard stuff..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00380279 = 0.9507 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 758 @ 0.00379303 = 2.8751 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00375999 = 0.376 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8258 @ 0.00081289 = 6.7128 BTC [+]
ozbot: NAKED TRUTH – POST EXPOSES OVERSTOCK ALLY | New York Post
benderp: nonsense ninjashogun. a vanishingly thin slice of everyone is competent, and everyone else is constantly justifying their incompetence to themselves and each other.
moiety: "... has since opened TRG..." excellent! :/
benderp: mircea_popescu: more credence accrues every day to the notion that consumer organizations accepting bitcoin only do so as they begin to circle the drain.
moiety: lolol well put benderp - exemplified in here often :P
ninjashogun: benderp - suppose you removed everyone from the world who is not "competent". You would be left with nobody making your clothes, producing your food, building your highways, collecting your taxes, installing your Internet connection, or keeping any of the factories, buildings, schools, infrastructure, going.
ninjashogun: Most American teachers are "incompetent". Yet America has a near 100.00% literacy rate.
benderp: fungible labor is fungible.
ninjashogun: No, it's not ridiculous. By any definition of "competent" for which benderp's statement holds true (" a vanishingly thin slice of everyone is competent, and everyone else is constantly justifying their incompetence to themselves and each other.") it is absolutely true.
moiety: people can be competent at producing food, building things... all the things you said ninjashogun
mircea_popescu: dorks have their own shortener to paste their links about how a spurious ceo is ending cancer by shoving things up his butt live on cam.
ninjashogun: no they can't. You just said only a vanishingly thin percentage of "everyone" is competent.
dexX7: workers = incompetent sounds like a rude prejudice
benderp: ninjashogun: all the reading in the world, and look at the shitshow that's resulted.
benderp: i blame the incompetent teachers.
moiety: eww mircea_popescu no one wants to see that much of their or anyone else's boss
moiety: ninjashogun: imo, you get people competent and incompetent in every field. competence is not something that comes with status. There are plenty of incompetent management in the world
ninjashogun: I was just responding to benderp's statement
moiety: and im responding to yours
moiety: that;s going to happen when you hit enter in here
ninjashogun: moiety - fair enough. I should have been clear that I was being satirical, and not using my own definition of competent. I think basically 100% of people are competent at what they do.
mircea_popescu: Perlboy it's a complicated matter. nz people weren't nearly as obnoxious, but anyway.
moiety: please tell me that was also sarcasm ninjashogun
ninjashogun: I thnk a bunch of companies "suck" and are "idiots". I hate paypal and wish it would die. But I don't actually SAY that, or actually SAY they're incompetent.
Perlboy: mircea_popescu, yeah kiwi's are a bit more open
ninjashogun: I'm not Icahn, there to criticize a $74B company (eBay) when he couldn't run a company any better.
mircea_popescu: anyway, not going to comment on that particular wrinkle further.
benderp: no, you're a budding Jobs, right ninjashogun?
ninjashogun: benderp - maybe a few years ago I would have said that ;-)
Perlboy: mircea_popescu, ok, nice article though i'm glad there's someone like you able to push back
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
Perlboy: if i did such things in australia i'd start waiting for the black helicopters
ninjashogun: moiety - are there that many incompetent managers in the world though? Don't nearly all of them produce hte basic results they're there to do on some level?
Perlboy: ninjashogun, 99% of managers are a case of shit floating.
moiety: ninjashogun: yes. go work in a hospital or government agency. competence in your definition = arselicking and shagging someone higher up
mircea_popescu: people generally overrepresent the importance and power of corrupt government.
benderp: ah davout thou art a scholar
ninjashogun: Perlboy - you say that, but the 'shit' skils that let them 'float' are vitally important to the companies they're at. They do more for the mission than most lines of code that are written at most organizations.
davout: benderp: yo, brb, zipping some leonard cohen for mircea_popescu
ninjashogun: moiety - I've worked at government agencies. My God! The inefficiency. It was horrendous.
mike_c: ninjashogun you should expound on this topic at length on bitcointalk.
moiety: ninjashogun: yup 100% competent huh
mircea_popescu: davout are you trying to get me in trouble with the law ?
Perlboy: ninjashogun, no they are typically promoted either a) Because they stroked egos and didn't create any issues [or covered them up to people who would be concerned] or b) Were found to be incompetent but were stuck in the organisation so were promoted to a position where they couldn't fuck things up
moiety: i totally agree with mike_c i think it would be a really interesting good thread ninjashogun go for it
ninjashogun: Look, I know that on some level what you say make sense. For example, on some level Windows is completely broken in every single conceivable way and has had the opposite of architects working on it for the past thirty years.
benderp: and yet ninjashogun those are the 'architects' out there in the wild, delivering value by your standards.
ninjashogun: But on the other hand, millions of people use Windows for hours every day, and have used it to run most aspects of the economy.
benderp: what was it asciilifeform was going on about?
moiety: jesus you are seriously gonna use windows as an example here?
ninjashogun: That WITHOUT sarcasm, in fact those architects (the totally incompetent windows ones) have built immense value over hte past thirty years.
ninjashogun: moiety I think windows is a fair example because everyone here knows hte obvious ways in which it sucks :)
Perlboy: ninjashogun, true, but then it's been rewritten what, 4 times now (3.11, 95, XP, 8)?
moiety: asciilifeform! i used gribbles lasers! they were required
ninjashogun: moiety - windows doesn't really have any architectural defenders.
Perlboy: so it's the age old opportunity cost thing
davout: ninjashogun: you may be confusing value with technical debt
Perlboy: hack it together and we'll have to rewrite every X years
moiety: i think its time to break out the alcohol or sanity pills or something
Perlboy: unfortunately microsoft isn't motivated to do something forever
Perlboy: otherwise their upgrade would be less expensive (ie. apple mac osx :))
ninjashogun: davout - I don't think it's technical debt if it never needs to be fixed. Windows was never refactored onto a rock-hard Unix base with proven open technology stacks. Nor will it ever be. You can't call it debt if you're never going to do it.
ninjashogun: Another example is ATM's that run Windows. On some level that is such an obvious display of incompetence that it should make most people here shiver.
davout: ninjashogun: just because you're never going to repay it doesn't change the nature of a debt, it's still a debt
ninjashogun: Most people, that is, except for the millions of people using them to withdraw money.
Perlboy: umm, so, there's nothing wrong with windows being used for all banking applications
ninjashogun: davout - that's silly :) The term "technical debt" is an analogy, i.e. you get features now but at a commitment of future time. If that future time is not a real commitment, then there is no actual debt involved.
Perlboy: just make sure you price in a few hundred firewalls
moiety: ninjashogun, dear, when you begin by talking about incompetence of managers and people that make food... you cannot really switch to a whole company that is comprised of millions of them. #consistency
ninjashogun: davout - just like, if you make a bracelet out of pyrite, you do not have the "debt" of whatever it would take to re-make in Gold. You just have a pyrite bracelet.
Perlboy: which fwiw you'd have to have anyway regardless of os
davout: ninjashogun: sounds like a point
ninjashogun: davout - on the other hand if your prototype is pyrite and you're prototyping a gold bracelet (the way many startups prototype an MVP then intend to build scallability) then it can be considered a "debt".
davout: ninjashogun: except if you're considering the expense of time required to switch useful applications to better OSes
Perlboy: Yeah, i know at least one bank that has moved to 100% Windows.
ninjashogun: davout - that is true. I think Microsoft isn't selling that migration path though :)
Perlboy: and they just replaced their core banking with windows+mssql end to end
Perlboy: ninjashogun, every system, windows.
davout: ninjashogun: it can be debt in the sense that they have to keep backwards compatibility up to some level
moiety: even i get what he means
Perlboy: ninjashogun, all of it. :)
davout: ninjashogun: for the rest there's mastercard
ninjashogun: davout - that is a fairer example. Their backwards compatibility is a 'debt' because they are actually taking it on as a commitment. It's clearly a slightly lower debt than they would have if they had a goal of creating a real operating system like Unix and BSD's
Perlboy: microsoft basically dropped their pants license wise.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.066 = 0.33 BTC [-] {2}
davout: ninjashogun: "improving their OS" and "creating a new solid OS" sounds like a difference in degree, not in kind
ninjashogun: davout - I don't necessarily call backwards compatibility "improving their OS". In fact, in many cases compatibility and objective improvement are at odds.
davout: ninjashogun: precisely because of tech debt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00080757 = 40.9438 BTC [-] {3}
ninjashogun: davout - but you can't just call it debt if they're not going to do it. For example, the fact that Python 3 isn't source code compatible with Python 2 isn't technical debt that they're postponing. It's a design decision.
moiety: youre definately the loudest ninja i have ever met!
davout: ninjashogun: no, it's defaulting on debt, which can make sense :D
ninjashogun: No, to an article. I didn't comment on it.
moiety: ok? i did see you linked that
mircea_popescu: (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than a frilly Victorian one...)
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, you can also see a lot of that in Apple computers. For example, they are supposed to be very "easy to use" (yet are expensive). But this hides the fact that a lot of people use it to run accounting software that's also dumbed down to their level, and a load of similar extra-expensive things that let them manage their lifestyle. It's becaues they make enough money to buy Macs and to buy expensive dumbed-do
ninjashogun: wn software - but not enough to hire full accountants and managers to do the same work!
ninjashogun: if you look at mac software ,a lot of it is aimed at letting people do things that ordinarily you would hire a professional for, and not at a professsional level.
benderp: everyone i know who can afford a macintosh pays an accountant if they're not on salary, ninjashogun.
benderp: what are these professional things the macintosh consumer software enables?
ninjashogun: benderp - it may have been a bad example. I mean if you survey the software that's specifically targeted at Mac users.
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than a frilly Victorian one...) /// Nonsense.
moiety: ninjashogun: ok ok i clicked and i give up on any article that begins: "have you ever felt like......"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32647 @ 0.00081309 = 26.5449 BTC [+] {2}
benderp: can you provide an acceptable example?
ThickAsThieves: it happened because visual design became a blue collar job
ninjashogun: the top one is a good example. Dreamweaver.
benderp: <asciilifeform> afaik the only software today 'specifically targeted at mac
benderp: users' is the nickel-and-dime chumpatron where these folks pay
benderp: $20/each for a hundred little gui utilities that'd be a 1-line
benderp: bash script on an ordinary computer
ozbot: Main/The Roaring Twenties - Television Tropes & Idioms
ThickAsThieves: if anything, it's certainly cheaper to make simple stuff
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that is EXACTLY my point. Exactly that.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that they pay EXTRA but becuase they're not actually having someone competent do it.
ThickAsThieves: mostly the expense comes into play when they choose expensive smooth surfaces
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, they pay extra for a GUI, instead of enough for someone to do it properly.
moiety: so mircea_popescu, ThickAsTheives, can we conclude modern day styling is getting more minimalistic and less decorative because people are lazy/no servants/no time?
mircea_popescu: moiety i would say in present day considerations shoving the items is more of a concern
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I missed your dollar shave example, what was it?
ThickAsThieves: for example, where do you find people to make intricate wood carvings?
mircea_popescu: even the cars look increasingly more like they came out of a vulva.
ninjashogun: There is actually one take-away from the above insights that mircea_popescu 's quote led to here.
moiety: even more of a side note -- i think it's a real shame loosing the individuality and decorativeness of design :( cars is a good example!
mircea_popescu: moiety yeah now everyone makes porsches, from bmw to mercedes.
ninjashogun: It seems for the bitcoin device that you guys were building (asciilifeform) the real money is in making it SO dumb that the user doesn't have to understand how bitcoin, signing, or a wallet works.
ThickAsThieves: right but havent things become more about cutting costs as time passes?
ninjashogun: so if you could make it so dumb that the user just thinks of it "as a wallet" with "bitcoins in it" and takes it out to spend from it.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves actually it became feasible to extrude complex conical surfaces.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I thought that the signing thing was a natural step away from an offline wallet?
moiety: mircea_popescu: and they are so ugly. what ever happened to aston and jaguar
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, wouldn't your embedded device be used at some point as an offline wallet that you can connect?
moiety: ThickAsThieves: i think you might be right but i feel only at a trinket level?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay. I was talking about that USB thing that escrows your private key. I know you only said it was about private keys - but most users don't know what that is.
ozbot: The Germans Have Figured Out How to 3-D Print Cars | Autopia | Wired.com
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I was just thinking how mircea's current insights would imply that that is what you could actually sell to dumb users for a huge markup (e.g. $199), since they know what a leather wallet is and know that bitcoins are money. and that's it.
moiety: jesus christ, where do you even sit
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. I'm not saying you'd need to pursue it. Just like I'm not saying you should build a shiny gui on a Unix utility and sell it to mac users for $49.
ThickAsThieves: old school art deco did offer many intricate work too yknow
benderp: ninjashogun: if you can't be bothered to respond to private conversations that you start, I don't see why I should arse myself to respond to your PMs.
moiety: lol "inspired by a turtles skeleton" -- i have *always* thought of beautiful cars when viewing turtles
thestringpuller: asciilifeform do you believe there is a hardware hole in most mobile devices?
moiety: bahaha and *theres* the connection!
ThickAsThieves: i dont understand why more concept cars arent produced
moiety: remember the alfa concept they just produced one of for the boss
benderp: asciilifeform: link the goats again!
ninjashogun: benderp, sorry!! I was very interested in your response, just a bit delayed. I'm doing a few different things.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, link to "see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots." ?? This is about the opposite of what I've always heard.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I've always heard that if you make things for idiots, you will always have a huge market, since most people don't use most technologies.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so for their purposes, it might as well not exist. For example, for the purposes of most people in the world, bitcoin doesn't actually exist (theyu can't buy it at a western union currency exchange, or know how to install software for it.)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so if someone were to create something idiots could (actually) use then it would be (for them) as thought only it existed. Apple often does this and practically claims competing technology doesn't even exist.
ThickAsThieves: last night a couple asked me the easiest way to buy bitcoin, I said Coinbase, you just need to enter your checking account info, and the wife was all, I'm not putting my checking account info in some website!
mircea_popescu: paypal is not a website, and the government is not some twerps.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, thank you for that link. I actually completely agree with it.
ThickAsThieves: i told her i wouldnt sell to them because theyd still need a wallet anyway
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I guess I had a different market in mind, not the true bottom third of the Pyramid of society.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I'm not sure why bitcoin can't be for the masses. A wallet is an extremely close analogy with a physical wallet. The only major difference is the history. Isn't it?
ninjashogun: But this is true with a wallet as well. When you hand someone cash you don't expect to be able to unhand them that cash.
ninjashogun: So we've identified two differences (1) transactions are final (2) there is a history of transactions somewhere. Is there anything else that would be a conceptual hurdle for everyone using bitcoin?
ninjashogun: I mean as an analogy for a physical wallet with cash in it.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, but why such a strong statement above? "bitcoin really isnt for the masses"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00375616 = 0.2254 BTC [-] {3}
ninjashogun: I would very humbly suggest that in the long term it might be.
ThickAsThieves: common man also cant figure out to not open exe files from their email
ninjashogun: unless there is some inherent conceptual hurdle that people can't understand.
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell benkay thanks for the inspiration!
deadweasel: ninjashogun, explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some.
FabianB: mircea_popescu: that was a personal statement, not country statistics
ninjashogun: deadweasel - I think i have some insight on this.
FabianB: mircea_popescu: but probably true for jp, korea and china, more or less
ninjashogun: deadweasel, the major hurdle is that people who don't do forex don't normally talk of 'buying' currency. That's the only hurdle. Specifically:
mircea_popescu: did in the us, also. never had a problem with it, contrary to what people say
ThickAsThieves: mp, but for the things you use cash for, would you ever use bitcoin instead?
ninjashogun: deadweasel, it doesn't make much sense to say "I bought $100 with my used bike." It feels wrong. But it's accurate.
FabianB: andd germany is still more cash than credit cards as well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00081557 = 11.051 BTC [+]
deadweasel: honestly, i can't follow your ramblings at present, ninjashogun, how could you possibly explain it to a newbie?
mircea_popescu: turns out you can rent hotel rooms w/o credit cards just fine. provided you wear a suit and your gangster roll is larger than the receptionists' penis
ninjashogun: deadweasel, sorry I wasn't clear enough. The difficulty with 'buying' a currency is that people don't think of 'buying' a dollar, or euro, or pound. It's a difficult concept for most people. People think of using currency, not buying it.
ThickAsThieves: in this way i think it's unwise to use normal cash wallets as the intro to noobs
mircea_popescu: the jury in my head is out on the entire topic of bitcoin-backed ccs
ninjashogun: deadweasel, so if you were to say, "I bought $100 with my bicycle" it would - as you point out - sound like incoherent ramblings. It should be written, "I SOLD my bike for $100".
ThickAsThieves: it's much more akin to your onlin banking username and password
moiety: I'm struggling with weighing up the frustration:lulz in relation to the ignore function
ninjashogun: so as soon as people starting talking about "Buying things with bitcoin" then it's pretty obvious how it works.
deadweasel: ninjashogun, i seem to have lost you completely. but i know one thing, the last time I thought I had some insight on bitcoin I asked everyone here. turns out i was wrong.
FabianB: i sell euro if i want rmb to get around in china
moiety: well done for managing this far deadweasel
ninjashogun: deadweasel - what's wrong with the answer to your question "explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some" - bitcoin is just a currency like euros or pounds, except you don't need to involve banks, it works more like cash. If you want to buy something in pounds (let's say you visit London) you get some pounds at an exchange (using dollars). if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you get some bi
ThickAsThieves: this is also why i find those BigFoot bitcoin brochures so out of touch
ninjashogun: That would be the normal answer to the question you just stated....
deadweasel: Cardono, TM, secures your btc and burns your jews, automatically!
ninjashogun: Normal users, for reasons we can appreciate, would then proceed to buy bitcoins if they had something they wanted to buy in bitcoins. (And only then.) This is currency working as it should.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50474 @ 0.00081576 = 41.1747 BTC [+] {3}
deadweasel: ninjashogun: the mental hurdles people put up for themselves are far higher than the small mental hurdles you have bounded to understand it.
ninjashogun: deadweasel - okay. So what happens when YOU explain bitcoin to a newbie?
deadweasel: i wait for them to fucking beg me to explain it
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, that's not true. Some people uses bitcoin to buy some things. if that weren't true, Tiger Direct wouldn't accept htem.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I mean I get what you're saying about investors/speculators - but it has actual users of it as currency as well.
deadweasel: they don't accept them and less than 1% of their biz is btc. they let Coinbase or Paybit or whatever do it
ninjashogun: deadweasel - fair enough, but I was just addressing "ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin to buy things" - though to be fair ThickAsThieves probably meant to say that as a generalization, which is true.
benderp: the thing with the people who buy things with bitcoins, is that eventually they will run out of bitcoins.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves what about silk road and questionably legal things? Didn't people buy btc specificially for those uses?
moiety: otherwise ninjashogun people would be buying exact amounts for their purchases to get the best conversion
ninjashogun: moiety, why would exact amounts be the best conversion?
ThickAsThieves: SR is an exception, not the common motivation to buy btc
moiety: i mean as in, what would be the point in having leftovers if you were only buying it to buy something else
deadweasel: darknetmarkets pop up and down on a weekly basis
mircea_popescu: not that it ever was much of a thing, but for the sake of lulz.
ninjashogun: Oh....if in all the above you guys meant "you're not going to explain bitcoin Qua Investment to a newbie, and then get them to buy bitcoin" then that's probably true :). I wasn't thinking of it as an investment just then.
ninjashogun: moiety - the reason for leftovers is because you might want to buy something else as well? People generally exchange more currency than they will immediately spend, and keep the change to spend on other things.
benderp: ninjashogun: another challenge is the backup and restoration problem.
benderp: ninjashogun: the rational thing for long term btc holders is...
deadweasel: benderp: yeah, low hanging fruit, I should have started there.
ninjashogun: benderp - yes, probably. Do you think an offline wallet device that just knew its own balance (and displayed it continuously), had no backup or restore functionality, would ease this portion of the hurdle?
benderp: ninjashogun: how could an offline device know its balance?
deadweasel: slightly, but only for the already technically advanced
ninjashogun: benderp, my statement was regarding backup and restoration problems.
moiety: ok, imma just head off to get a BTC to keep for my 2014 lipgloss purchases .. and perhaps an eyeliner, should i need one brb
benderp: how is an offline wallet going to know its balance?
ninjashogun: I don't know how an offline wallet will know its balance. For example, if it stays offline and the account receives a transfer for someone, how will it get updated?
ninjashogun: I just know that conceptually an offline wallet is probably hte easiest thing to understand.
moiety: speaking of nerd sex, karpeles actually once tweeted about how being a nerd in japan was much better as he had talked a japanese chick into marrying him lol
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, so, conceptually, it would have to be "Ooops, I was wrong." until it syncs.
moiety wonders if he bought her with magic game cards
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. However I'm trying to approach this from the point of view of a user.
benderp: ThickAsThieves: don't encourage him.
ninjashogun: The issue then would be that the only conceptually accurate device hte users could think of like a physical wallet, would have to be hot all of the time.
deadweasel: ninjashogun: we could use toe warmers?
moiety: ninjashogun: all you need now is chip'n'pin for bitcoin and youre all set!
benderp: even moiety's in on the game now
ninjashogun: So in this sense the physical bitcoin 'wallet' would be a smart card with a PIN. It would NOT know its balance. However, people are very used to this mode of money use.
benderp: hardware wallets are actually more complex and a greater pain in the ass. users must understand transactions, how to generate one, how to sign one, and how to transmit one.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, if you moved trezor into the form factor of an ATM card with a PIN, and using the same technology - then it would be interesting.
ninjashogun: then its readers would be connected to the bitcoin network instead of to a bank network.
ninjashogun: I mean if you took Trezor and made it look like an ATM card, by shrinking it down to the same chip size. (chip and pin)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, we were discussing what it would take for everyone to understand and use it :)
deadweasel: what if you get stuck in an island prison for life with your autistic friend?
moiety: sorry i just finished facedesking
moiety: ninjashogun: that was in no way, shape or form a serious comment. my apologies.
ozbot: Papillon (1973) - IMDb
moiety: chip'n'pin shouldnt exist for fiat ffs
Diablo-D3: you're looking at the problem wrong
benderp: plain ol gpg should suffice
benderp: don't see what all the rush is about
moiety: umm #2 please for me benderp
moiety: i think we should use gpg for everything, everywhere, all the time
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it was more on the smart chips in some atm cards.
joecool: asciilifeform: *but* does it lock out after too many failed attemps?
ninjashogun: I think that's a very good idea, moiety, and if you targeted the chip'n'pin form factor (looks like a card) sold with a networked home reader, you could sell them as a plug-in solution to merchants. I'm not 100% sure how card processing works, but it may be possible to piggy-back on that system and let merchants use it as though it were card, meanwhile the back-end processor (your company?) or an intermediate networked de
moiety: ok i may have been a little enthusiastic there.. BUT you cannot deny if you were offered gpg tea or normal tea, you would ask for gpg tea
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it needs to look like a card because that's how people were tricked into using a more secure system before. :) (specifically, chip'n'pin)
moiety: ninjashogun: i have no words. learn about how card processing works first?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it's more secure to use chip'n'pin because the card info isn't sent in the clear.
moiety: asciilifeform: please tell me you heated it with lasers
moiety: ninjashogun: i don't believe that's my place to do so
joecool: well i'm already using chip and pin openpgp
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I meant it (obviously) as a metaphor. Chip'n'pin works totally differently on a fundamnetal architectural level, from a card with a magnetic stripe.
ozbot: g10 Code - Smartcard
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if you took the architectural advantages of a chip'n'pin, and had it in a different form factor (not a card) then people wouldn't have started using it.
joecool: asciilifeform: have you looked at yubikey neo yet?
moiety: your metaphors and sarcasm are very clear... a few lines later ninjashogun (yawn)
ninjashogun: this has been an interesting conversation. Yes, it's not easy to manufacture. I don't know how much those chips do when powered on but I doubt it's enough to do whatever a lukewarm wallet would need to.
joecool: Apocalyptic: as much as BFL is
moiety: meh we can handle it, i'd work on listening first
ninjashogun: but a combination of both does wonders. I would say we hit on several key insights in this conversation - that are also actionable. It might be very hard to make a reality, but at least we know the market is there.
moiety: it's also made it clear, you don't actually read the logs
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00081576 BTC [+]
mike_c: wait for it.. here's the part where he asks for funding.
thestringpuller: wow looks like there will be some interesting things in the logs
ninjashogun: asciilifeform - anyone who has an oscilloscope would not have to use a naked eye :) You can expect someone to have a magnifying lense ($0.50) if they have an oscilloscope ($100)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, nobody here (or anywhere) has any architectural insights on making the philosopher's stone, or cold fusion, a reality.
moiety: not yet mike_c he got distracted
moiety takes out her monacle - amidoinitwrong guise?
moiety: aww :( failme have some green [secure] tea
ninjashogun: mike_c - No, I don't have any interest in building a device like that. The only way it would be feasible for a single person who has not made a substantial exit in another company, is if it were strongly patentable. Idon't think it is.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 130 @ 0.006 = 0.78 BTC [+]
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I just told you, none of it is patentable.
moiety: asciilifeform: Atlantis?
mike_c: ascii, are you patenting anything for snsa?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, for example mircea_popescu could probably build a physical card that is a "lukewarm wallet" as you put it, he would have the funds, but I don't think he could get his R&D investment back - it would be money thrown away.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because he could not patent it to protect his R&D research into it. It's a somewhat tough problem due to the very very fine sizes involved, and also the need to have a very low cost of goods if oyu are going to sell it as a plastic cafrd. There's no model that I can think of that would support this.
moiety: mircea_popescu: random side note, have you had white tea?
mircea_popescu: moiety yeah. i've had all sorts of tea once at some sort of "all sorts of tea event" in greenwich village
mike_c: because you don't think the IP is the important part of things, or some other reason?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00081119 = 20.807 BTC [-]
moiety: mircea_popescu: i hear it's not very nice... a tea event sounds pretty cool though, to me
kakobrekla: no further comments on the subject were made. everyone lived happily ever after.
mircea_popescu: moiety the cleavage was spectaculay. oodlebunches of starving aspirational chicks wearing their friends' only designer outfit.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that tone isn't very conducive to development of anything. Not that I care.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00081529 = 25.3963 BTC [+] {2}
moiety: s'ok i didn't notice cus i was wearing my monacle not my monocle
mike_c: trilema seems silent on the topic of patenting IP
mike_c: that must be the only topic i've ever looked for that it was silent on :)
joecool: damn that didn't take long
joecool: mircea_popescu: are you a bot?
wilimprex: asciilifeform: most importantly the card sw is cloused source and access to sdk is under nda
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I don't like to say it but it's "just" a single-board module around a microcontroller that is a usb device
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, (I don't think this is a good use of the word "just"). But it answers your question regarding what is inside.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, flash memory some ram, processor...
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, you oculdn't determine exactly what the micro does with any amount of money short of a multimilion dollar lab, but if you make reasonable assumptions (such as commodity components not being a highly engineered replacement) you can verify its operation for <$100 in equipment.
ninjashogun: ? The product you linked? So that it escrows your secret and your secret doesn't make it to a file on your PC or your PC memory...
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, what is your point exactly?
joecool: Diablo-D3: xray of a yubikey neo i'm guessing
mike_c: geez, the article is in romanian and french? what's a poor american to do.
ninjashogun: do you know what that circular thing is in the middle of the xray you posted? (showing leads at 10 o'clock and 12 o'clock position)?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 36 @ 0.00609996 = 0.2196 BTC [+] {3}
wilimprex: asciilifeform: any not open sourced hw/sw is not worht entrusting your data/secrets
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay look I get that it's kind of braindamaged. ATM cards are also inherently extremely braindamaged - and loads of people have been ripped off by card swipers, false things they put their card into that is in front of a real ATM.
joecool: asciilifeform: with that being said do you feel the same way about the openpgp smartcard?
mike_c: it won't kill me, but my wife will.
ozbot: Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know it strikes me how much pr/social media you're doing these days
ninjashogun: it means it's a braindead architecture. it shouldn't be possible.
ninjashogun: That doesn't mean that ATM's aren't MASSIVELY useful, even though they are a flawed architecture.
ozbot: atm skimmer — Krebs on Security
mircea_popescu: you don't have my tools, it's kind of like watching someone build bridges with a hammer
moiety: it's nothing to do with you asciilifeform, some people are unenlightenable. *sips encrypted hotchocolate*
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I find some of what you have said useful. I wouldn't adopt the tone of enlightening a stone-age man, as I have a lot of experience in several areas that also make my background interesting. we can simply have a conversation you know :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00609997 = 0.1769 BTC [+] {3}
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, you've brought up good points about drawbacks to a mass-adoption card that is a lukewarm bitcoin wallet accepted directly by merchants. You are right, and htose are real.
mike_c: ok, i think i got the jist: IP isn't real. IP has little to do with the success of the company. It's all about management. close?
mircea_popescu: the problem with trilema article is that they really don't have any gists
mircea_popescu: the details are more important than the actual article.
mike_c: details get quite mangled through google translate
mircea_popescu: well maybe the usg open sources its english translations/summaries of romanian t articles
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I was very highly impressed by the way in which you funded your site, and I was interested in your thoughts on a funding model I am working on for the jobs website that I mentioned to you earlier. (Based on a back-end skills graph that knows that, for example, C# is close to C++ and Java, but very far from embedded electronics design.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 107 @ 0.00612908 = 0.6558 BTC [+] {3}
ninjashogun: So, the site is going to accept profiles from people (similar to LinkedIn). This sets up a chicken-and-egg problem because people would only upload a profile if htere is something in it for them, and in the beginning there owuld not be a big value proposition on the site.
moiety: would they not upload in the hope of getting a job?
ninjashogun: not in the beginning (I mean during the weekend-launch period!)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 859 @ 0.00614249 = 5.2764 BTC [+] {4}
ninjashogun: If I put an MVP I code in a weekend online, and put it on hackernews and maybe reddit, it would not have profiles in the beginning.
ninjashogun: and it would not have job ads in the beginning. It's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem.
benderp: ninjashogun: how did mircea_popescu fund his site?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 168 @ 0.00619989 = 1.0416 BTC [+] {2}
ninjashogun: benderp - I thought I read that he took a large BTC investment, for one thing.
ninjashogun: So I would solve this via another fact. People, especially highly technical people, know that if "you are not paying for a product, you ARE the product".
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 400 @ 0.00619997 = 2.48 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00081407 = 1.0583 BTC [-]
ninjashogun: benderp - I'm sure mircea_popescu can correct me if it's relevant
Apocalyptic: it's wasn't humiliating enough to get hacked & lose all funds, but now they came with the IDEA of an btc insurance company
TomServo: ninjashogun: you could correct yourself by just reading a little.
ninjashogun: So, the idea is that the first 500 qualified profiles (full name, highly technical with CV, and in a major market - e.g. San Francisco, New York, London) - would get a 2.5% fully diluted equity in the company. The next 1500 profiles get 2.5%. And the following 8000 profiles get 5%.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 48 @ 0.00619999 = 0.2976 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299897 = 0.365 BTC [+]
benderp: if it's only going to take a weekend, ninjashogun, go do it and stop yammering.
Apocalyptic: I think you've written a trilema article on that in 2012 or 2013
ninjashogun: so rather than raise a traditional angel round of investment, you directly pay for the users, who "know" they are the product, to upload. Having 10,000 senior, lead, etc, technical profiles, is worth a substantial amount for the company, as well as enabling b2b deals etc.
TomServo: Sorry, I've been away a while - are we still going on about the social media rape whistle?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 55 @ 0.00624362 = 0.3434 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic i tihnk so to, but why read when one could have ideas
ninjashogun: benderp - it doesn't just take a weekend. Part of what I'm doing is the ideation portion. For example I'm soliciting mirceau's feedback on just one aspect right now.
mircea_popescu: (on which i also wrote, but w/e, writing is overrated)
ninjashogun: benderp - I would have to be very very lucky to get an MVP up in a weekend; I'd have to know exactly what I would want on it, and it would have to be very limited scope.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: that sounds much better. More since the bitbet and your "new era" article?
benderp: ninjashogun: i begin to understand your grasp of software development.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, so the idea is that people know that there is a small chance they have an opportunity to invest at an early stage in the next "monster.com", and this would be a small incentive to upload their profile for some equity.
dexX7: i don't get it? why did you mark this bet?
jurov: dexX7 it got highlighted auto
mircea_popescu: dexX7 people are making 10 btc bets on a 170/9 btc pool with 10k diff
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00081119 = 6.5301 BTC [-]
Apocalyptic: "Something like that needs to be done! We must counterattack and find the criminals who do this kind of theft!
Apocalyptic: Otherwise, the altcoin and bitcoin world is going to fall apart! Who will want to have unsafe coins?"
benderp: mircea_popescu: pits and tits!
mircea_popescu: benderp if anyone was curious to see how the bega looks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.0062764 = 1.2553 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00634499 = 0.1269 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.11950724 = 1.0756 BTC [-]
ozbot: Bitcoin Is The New PayPal | TechCrunch
mircea_popescu: tech crutch. read all about how you don't need to really understand anything about new tech.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 182 @ 0.0063977 = 1.1644 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07299897 = 0.584 BTC [+]
benderp: i think i'll be getting my babe and my pit another puppy here soon.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 168 @ 0.00639999 = 1.0752 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: i these articles that take so many words to say something you'd see in a tweet
jurov: tl;dr: 25k linux servers used as botnet, access gained using stolen passwords
ThickAsThieves: Paypal was and is a target for scammers and hackers, bitcoin is too! better have good security!
dexX7: haha yea, that's the tltr
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : things happen in ways things happen, it's very important to either this or the other and make sure you brush your tits in the morning.
jurov: and check your balls
jurov: The first thing that stands out when looking at the data is the average length, which is much longer
jurov: than we expected. The average length is
jurov: characters, a lot longer than the
jurov: characters average
jurov: found in the LulzSec leak, which was
jurov: . This most likely reflects the fact that system
jurov: administrators are more conscious about the importance of strong passwords than the average
mircea_popescu: i think we should institute a 1 bitcent fine for unseemly behaviour
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 939 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.3854% in 5d 21h 25m 29s
jurov: was that 17 lines? guess i'm sending 0.17btc as donation then
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15852 @ 0.00081407 = 12.9046 BTC [+]
ozbot: Charlamagne Doesn't Care if White People Say N-Word - YouTube
TomServo: mircea_popescu: you might appreciate that, he may even be a reader
TomServo: around 2:00 is the more relevant piece
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.61887799 = 1.2378 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the blood argument is incredibly weak. there's a shitton of blood on "romanian", doth not make it particularly unusable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you got me reading the adventures of the 14th waffen grenadiers, which resulted in much amusement at the freitag guy
diametric: better not produce any yellow measurement devices.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00391 = 0.1955 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45050 @ 0.00081382 = 36.6626 BTC [-] {3}
moiety: thanks, the photo tours gave me the idea
Neil: Glass beads going for $600 a piece
benderp: blow stamps to be had for cheap
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 611.98, Best ask: 611.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 611.99, 24 hour volume: 6981.71545735, 24 hour low: 605.11, 24 hour high: 623.95, 24 hour vwap: 613.150833954
benderp: can we buy them already in a butt?
Ghaleon: what is the best route for a startup to go public btc style?
benderp: oh ho ho garzik's slipping protobufs back into bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 129 @ 0.0038 = 0.4902 BTC [-]
dexX7: what does the sec want with the user data etc.? i'm wondering, if this is about the sale of sd, btc stocks in general or an investigation about some fraud going on etc..
mircea_popescu: people have been pointing to "clash of cultures" discussing this, and its true
mircea_popescu: but the real clash isn't "you wanna phone me ? get on irc"
dexX7: they may not want to say it, sure. but what do you think about it? any guess?
mircea_popescu: the clash of cultures is between the ankylosis of old bureaucratic paperwork and contemporary digital openness
mircea_popescu: i somehow can pursue bitcoin fraud quite in the open. the sec can not. why not ?
mircea_popescu: well... it doesn't have the people, the brains, the training or the intellectual culture.
mircea_popescu: this obviously will have to chance, and this obviously will change. it's just that a number of otherwise well meaning people didn't even know they had this problem until last month
ninjashogun: I'll pay your backtax on unseemly behavior (along with my apologies). I have a better grasp of the channel dynamics here.
mircea_popescu: dexX7 well on what basis would i think about it. i have no idea.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the incentive it does have. it's more effective, more effectual and cheaper. that's really the eos.
mircea_popescu: dexX7 maybe the sale was fictitious. maybe erik had the wrong kind of friends, a la shrem. maybe shrem was his wrong kind of friends. who the hell knows at this point.
mircea_popescu: maybe they're honestly just trying to understand wtf is going on. i could sorta see if i was in that position i'd go fishing like this. why not.
benderp: ninjashogun: you also owe me 5btc for my time this afternoon ;)
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but how would you know ?
mircea_popescu: just because her name is lilith does not know she knows how to suck cock, you know ?
Ademan: asciilifeform: some people believe that
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of space between "exists for the good of the people" and "was spawned by the devil and is making him proud"
mircea_popescu: it could just... yoiu know... sorta suck, sorta limp along as best it can...
ninjashogun: benderp 5 btc for an hour seems a bit steep :) that's $3000 per hour or a daily rate of... $24,000 - or a monthly rate of... $600,000.
mircea_popescu: i mean, normal people have normal kids, from down syndrome to superclever.
ninjashogun: benderp - I would go to monthly billing, it's probably psychologically easier to justify :)
Ademan: mircea_popescu: I got a good chuckle out of your correspondence with the SEC, bravo.
moiety: he included therapy costs for the stress
mircea_popescu: it's true that reptiles are great hunters. it's false that they're uber hunting machines as the kid imagines them
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : anyone remember tom green's performance in road trip ?
mircea_popescu: you have no idea what depression is until you've seen the depths through the eyes of a high ranking bureaucrat.
Neil: Lol, "as well as his account statements"
joecool: heh i never read the bitvps story on trilema
joecool: mircea_popescu: heroin was the likely answer regarding that case
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.054598 = 0.3276 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.066 = 0.33 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-]
joecool: mircea_popescu: i'm guessing he got embarrassed about his habit and stopped reporting P&L statements when the L was coming from heroin acquisitions
joecool: bitvps 2.0 was supposed to happen for him too but he started selling the equipment he lined up for that last week
mircea_popescu: afaik he got some job in the uk and forgot all about this
mircea_popescu: at the time bitcoin didn't look as big as it does today. iirc it was ~2-5 bux per or somesuch
mircea_popescu: or, "every ass looks good on a bike. that's why we buy bikes"
Ghaleon: we need to propel bit coin to mass respectability,.. one inch at a time
Ghaleon: tiger only go man eater when they lose their teeth , get wounded and cannot hunt normal prey, most animals avoid humans
Ghaleon: yes, much as among humans, it is the cowards we must watch for.. not the brave ones
benderp: or as I say to my staunchly little-d democratic friends "everything is born, matures, ossifies and dies. governments are no different."
mircea_popescu: because they got offered the cushy sec job and passed on it to be on the street ?
Ghaleon: humans are good creatures by nature
Ghaleon: the system is corrupt. it makes monsters out of many of us
benderp: "hardest target in bitcoin", to quote a guy.
mircea_popescu: i know a case of a woman that died through exploded colon because she and her coworker shoved an air compressor outlet in her ass
mircea_popescu: air compressors, turns out, are very dangerous and quite lethal
mircea_popescu: it seriously happened here, not urban legend or anything.
ozbot: Joc erotic terminat tragic
deadweasel: the ole airhose in the outhose, lethal she be
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't blame them. it's only the past 10-20 years that you can safely go in the undies of people picked off the street.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 6102 @ 0.00361384 = 22.0517 BTC [-] {47}
mircea_popescu: is this the same one as before or a totally different identical one ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 13898 @ 0.00312378 = 43.4143 BTC [-] {39}
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, will you trust it when it's available?
Shakespeare: "and an e-mail sent to a general mailbox at SatochiDice was unanswered." I wonder why!
Shakespeare: SEC isnt run by the devil or whatever, i thought it was run by perverts and sex addicts?
Shakespeare: if they dom it's certainly not satoChidice.com
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, given that my question is whether you, specifically, will trust it - there is no way to do so other than to ask you :)
mircea_popescu: the daphne chick misspelled her own email in her own sigblock, it's like...
Shakespeare: <@assbot> [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 13898 @ 0.00312378 = 43.4143 BTC [-] {39} /// impressive!
dexX7: ninjashogun: trezor firmware is open source afaik, so you can always verify for yourself or push your own version
mircea_popescu: i am hereby the first and probably only simpleminded psychotic peace priest.
Ademan: asciilifeform: I was under the impression both the hardware and software are going to be open source
benderp: Shakespeare: what was the slippage on that one?
Ademan: "slush said so in the advertising video"
ninjashogun: are you exchanging a symmetric password with someone over this channel? ;-)
Ademan: mircea_popescu: considering the trezor hasn't been released yet though, it hardly bothers me.
Ademan: not that I'll give them any money right now though
dexX7: "Some of the sources are at
http://github.com/trezor/. We are in the process of finalizing and cleaning up the sources and preparing a security audit of the code. We will publish the sources before shipping TREZOR to our customers."
dexX7: ah i didn't know that not everything was already released
Shakespeare: <benderp> Shakespeare: what was the slippage on that one? /// I dunno if it'd be fair to assess considering the volatility daily, but I think the sale started about 20% higher than where it ended
benderp: so copyright and patents. do these survive the bitpocalypse?
Ademan: Shakespeare: how does WoT = IP?
Ademan: (not the perl meaning though)
Shakespeare: but in as much as what copyright really is
benderp: "IP bad" an argument doth not make, Ademan.
benderp: mircea_popescu: i know. kinda why i bring it to the sages.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 981 @ 0.00015394 = 0.151 BTC [+]
Shakespeare: what's this nonsense where if you direct link a WSJ article, you get a paywall
ozbot: SecondMarket Seeks to Open Bitcoin Fund to Ordinary Investors - WSJ.com
Shakespeare: SecondMarket seeks to get a call from Ms. Waxman
Ademan: asciilifeform: Well the objectionable part of IP for me is more patent trolling, punishing independent discovery of the same thing, stupidly narrow fair use policies. I'd definitely be ok with an independent institution that tracks initial discoveries, and if the market is willing to pay more for products from them, then great
Shakespeare: "SecondMarket Inc. is racing to open up a private bitcoin investment fund to ordinary investors as soon as the fourth quarter, potentially beating a rival offering by two investors best known for their lawsuit against Facebook Inc. FB -1.37% chief executive Mark Zuckerberg."
Shakespeare: oh they are SO COOL for not spelling out Winklevoss