log
279 entries in 0.153s
asciilifeform: for instance, emacs has yet to be cured, as i understand
asciilifeform: ( with minimal cpu load, i.e. emacs )
asciilifeform: nao tbf could even make same observation re emacs ( it's never the 1970s c core that bombs, always extension script that hangs )
asciilifeform: lol this begins to resemble the emacs thrd, but with asciilifeform & mircea_popescu switched chairs
asciilifeform: today -- even emacs tears.
asciilifeform: and , not unrelatedly, asciilifeform sees the great crime of rms , to specifically be his pushing of 'kraft cheese' emacs + toolchains as 'just as good as real thing', witness e.g. https://archive.is/ws2qk#selection-5591.110-5591.271
asciilifeform: for instance, asciilifeform has '9000' processes on this and other boxen, where uses 'screen+bash+etc for tards' even though theoretically 'could emacs' ( see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869024 ) , because they ~must not crash~ and emacs is unthreaded and hosable ☝︎
asciilifeform: in point of fact there are serious design flaws in emacs that make dog/flea separation extremely difficult. but iirc we already had that thread not long ago.
asciilifeform: i can't think of any reason to tolerate. but i also dun have a from-the-ground replacement for emacs per se.
asciilifeform: if maggot had never found emacs, as most do not, will maggot on top of sumthingelse.
asciilifeform: that'd be 'calc', a diff emacs plugin.
asciilifeform: trb, emacs ( might be hard cookie, but gotta ) , various engineering tools
asciilifeform: so looking to put colour emacs in there or wat
asciilifeform: theoretically i'd rather have 1 pedal instead of 2, but emacs aint stable/uncrashable enuff for me to comfortably move in
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-02#1869016 << this is prolly a neato item but (to the possible surprise of some people) asciilifeform doesn't 'live in emacs' in the sense of using it for things that ain't files-on-disk editing ☝︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/94fgv/?raw=true << the raw emacs-sewed recurrence equations, if it helps
asciilifeform: aaand that's if you can coax emacs into not wasting the 1st and last cols.
asciilifeform: i'd very willingly trade my coloured emacs for 1bit b&w thing, at least on sunny day.
asciilifeform: a ~1s redraw would moar than suffice for emacs.
asciilifeform: i dun recall asking for 'use THIS .emacs' lol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855080 << i stole the notion , in slightly modified form, from knuth. the logic is, decrementing versions, with finite initial N, support a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851362 flow , where 'if you fucked it N+1 times , nao forced to call proggy something else' -- specifically in opposition to the heathen plague of runaway ver nums (e.g. linux kernel, emacs, firefox, etc) ☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: so, you won't be running emacs on it, no.
asciilifeform: ( you won't play 'doom' on a 1hz monitor, but e.g. emacs , will work )
asciilifeform: it's a pile of shit, just like emacs, kernel, gcc, all the rest of the sad sack of shit errybody is stuck using.
asciilifeform: trinque: i can only assume that 'make emacs unrunnable on this' was specific objective
asciilifeform: even got x running, and entirely unmodified emacs, browsers, etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see binaries as a cache for src . ( exactly in fact how emacs sees it. ) and thereby i have approx same interest in downloading and running bins built by ~others~ , as in stuffing food they have pre-digested somehow into my own gut, bypassing mouth
asciilifeform: [insert oblig emacs thread here]
asciilifeform: the 2 major ones i specifically recall in logs were 'screen' and emacs
asciilifeform: compared to, e.g., trb reactor dismantlement and rod replacement , re-creating the useful part of emacs is light work.
asciilifeform: yes. tho currently toolbox consists of rusty old emacs, and ~barehands.
asciilifeform recently had lengthy emacs convo with asciilifeform's brother, greybeard incurable emacsist , re 'yes we will ditch the autoinstallable packets' . initially horrified, then it dawned on him
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the main q is not re how many, but whether there is an 'emacs'-like boojum among'em. buildroot will just as happily build 9000 deps as 1.
asciilifeform: generally speaking unless one or moar of your deps is weird in the 'emacs' way (i.e. does something obscene with glibc-specific pheatures) it's a straight mechanical job, like rotor.
asciilifeform: phf: i thought you had a working dos emacs..?
asciilifeform: 'In the tricky middle ground of 95-96%, his position would depend on why builds were non-reproducible, as there are a few valid reasons for this to happen. In response to another question, he said that two good reasons for a non-reproducible build were packages that build inside their own virtual machine, such as Emacs, and security packages with signing keys such as secure boot. ' << lolwaaat
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can, with certain known exceptions ( emacs, mainly , per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1827118 thrd ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: potentially interesting, to n00bz, old emacs-decay thread : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455017 ☝︎
asciilifeform: ergo the keeping of linux, emacs, etc on life support.
asciilifeform: emacs lives on because it is a kind of oasis
asciilifeform: re 'manifest matter at will' : in early 2000s asciilifeform grasped the mega-problem , that programming ain't actually hard, except for stripping away the monkey shit produced by 50 yrs of monkey. 'i want a sane emacs' turned into 'sane prog lang' and quickly 'sane os' then 'sane iron' , and afaik this actually the inevitable correct cut, rather than caprice
asciilifeform: same thing as in the earlier emacs thread
asciilifeform: iirc there is a wwwtron , of a kind, built into emacs; it is in roughly the same condition as climacs.
asciilifeform: re disposing of x11 -- it is possibly even bigger can of worms than 'replace emacs', given e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671395 ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( e.g. for an infinite loop in sbcl, to not hose emacs )
asciilifeform doesn't, because does not particularly like the 'emacs hosed, all machine may as well reset' dynamic
asciilifeform: out of curiosity, do we currently have folx who irc via emacs ? ( ben_vulpes ? )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you dun do it in emacs, tho, afaik ?
asciilifeform: ( tho i can picture a hypothetical commonlisp-emacs that doesn't ever need to socket , because has compiler inside, like ye olde borland )
asciilifeform: ( even on my opteron, emacs is still a ~five second load , note )
asciilifeform: ( and, just how much loss of load speed are we talking about, if it is thrown out entirely, and emacs gets to compile ~all~ of its elisp erry time it loads ? )
asciilifeform: trinque: recall, there was a headache with emacs on musl
asciilifeform: will be gnarly if cuntoo dun build grandfather-emacs without major butchery.
asciilifeform: ergo gotta have a trb-frozen emacs.
asciilifeform: slightly upstack -- even if mircea_popescu were to proclaim 'we gotta have climacs', ~100% of the work will be done ~in~... emacs
asciilifeform: theoretically no good reason to keep it. aside from the fact that current body of emacs is largely composed ~of~ it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: slime is an emacs 'mode' for working with commonlisp.
asciilifeform: phf: if slime and ada mode can be made to run, it'll be a livable emacs per my lights.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: emacs is a 'modal' system, i.e. every programming language gets a mode, implemented as a set of elisp proggies, that completely changes the behaviour of the editor to (ideally) make it entirely suited to writing that particular form of text
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my current understanding , is that each emacs user alive , at some time in his life, took the thing and whittled away the spikes that his particular hands fell on most often.
asciilifeform: jurov: of all the sharp edges emacs indubitably has -- i have yet to witness this one.
asciilifeform: in so far asciilifeform is concerned, the 'universal' workstation is emacs-in-ratpoison.
asciilifeform: we had no fewer than 3 'emacs is duct tape' threads here.
asciilifeform: trinque: 'which emacs?' prolly deserves a thread. lessee what phf says, i bet he has an earlier one than mine
asciilifeform: btw trinque which emacs is in your ebuildtron ?
asciilifeform: phf: dun look at me, my emacs bin reads 8 Apr 20 2013
asciilifeform: emacs-fiddling, mod6 ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-31#1820076 << supposing one could count it as part of emacs -- naggum's oddball kbd mappings are also known ☝︎
asciilifeform: possibly it is actually better to teach small children to smoke, than to teach new people emacs.
asciilifeform: my emacs does not have this problem. prolly on account of the MB or so of multigenerational elisp in'ere
asciilifeform: so that 1 emacs can wedge and hang ALL of them ? nothx
asciilifeform: emacs is a massively tall rock of local maximum surrounded by ocean of boiling liquishit.
asciilifeform: Mocky: there's quite a few folx here who use non-emacs editors
asciilifeform: and of course it is not hard to find out ~why~ this happened : http://tahirhassan.blogspot.com/2016/03/installing-gnutls-on-emacs.html >> 'GnuTLS is needed for adding the https URL of MELPA to the package archive source list'
asciilifeform: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/emacs-gnutls.html
asciilifeform: aaaand apparently emacs 25.3.r4 pulls in... gnutls
asciilifeform: i was able to , e.g., emerge emacs and not suddenly see dbus appear. there isn't much moar that i even want from gentoo/portage.
asciilifeform: but e.g. emacs, gnat, irc, etc run
asciilifeform: phf: i'd actually rather see a resurrected zwei, than ancient cmachine cruft emacs, really
asciilifeform: it also helps that i dun actually ~like~ emacs. i use it 'через нехочу'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orig emacs pre-dates rms. goes back into the mists of time.
asciilifeform: what period. emacs today ( genuine emacs, that is ) worx exactly same as 18
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/color-emacs.jpg << photo, for the curious
asciilifeform: brother said sumthinglike 'here's the emacs and here's the taiwan emacs'
asciilifeform: the trad emacs worxfine under x11 , since asciilifeform was a student, and prolly before
asciilifeform: buncha derps in 1990s ran off to mikehearn emacs, back in the day.
asciilifeform: it's a bitcoincash of trad emacs.
asciilifeform: xemacs has 0 to do with the emacs e.g. asciilifeform today runs under x11.
asciilifeform: i pointedly do NOT agree that 'having to use an external tool like cp command' is a problem. for fuckssake you have to use a non-vtron tool to edit the coad ! vtron dun replace emacs.
asciilifeform: emacs per se is nothing to write home about, it is full of gnarly archaicisms , and the default keymapping will, as naggum described, destroy your hands , unless you fix it
asciilifeform: slime lives in emacs.
asciilifeform: (not 'emacs' per se, but e.g. slime. you couldn't pay me to write lisp without slime or equivalent, just as not even gulag inmates will dig with hands instead of spade )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764878 << aaah, the prb of emacs ! it lives on, yes ☝︎
asciilifeform: and given the choice, will take ballpoint pen over feather, and emacs over 'ed'
asciilifeform admits that he does not particularly ~like~ emacs. it simply ended up a schelling point, like linux. but suffers from same type of problems.
asciilifeform: not errybody uses emacs
asciilifeform: back when i had a horizontal display, most of the time i had it column-split and emacs 'followmode' to flow proggy between them
asciilifeform: emacs auto-fill is deeply braindamaged yes
asciilifeform: trinque: i still haven't attempted musltronic gentoo. ( and have nfi whether it could be used on a workstation, say -- does emacs run ? what dies ? )
asciilifeform: i dun remember any of this liquishit in vanilla emacs