log
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asciilifeform: wb Mocky
Mocky: thx asciilifeform
Mocky: I'm going to finish moving my blog over to mpwp this week. I expect I'll need some pizarro assistance for go-live. Then Imma post remaining handful of Qatar posts, including video of my address to Doha derpchain gathering. ☟︎
Mocky: after that i'll have free hands looking for somthing to do
asciilifeform: Mocky: neato
Mocky: i suppose learning v will be in order
asciilifeform: Mocky: the likbez by ben_vulpes is still imho the gold standard
asciilifeform: ( even tho it is about the ancient proof of concept vtron, with old-style hashes etc., re the basic mechanics it is still 100% correct )
asciilifeform: imho v is the simplest, mechanically, versionatron ever baked. so i dun expect Mocky will have much of problem
Mocky: I think I get it but havn't used yet, other than a trb build from online that didn't require much thinking.
asciilifeform: !!up pehbot
deedbot: pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo].0{;}; QY
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 14 IP: 14 Symbol: ';' : Conditional Return in Sub: 'foo' is Prohibited! (Please check for unbalanced '{'.)'
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo].1,; ! QY
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 24 IP: 13 Symbol: ',' : Currently in a Subroutine; but this Op exits a Loop state !
asciilifeform: !A :; QY
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 2 IP: 2 Symbol: ';' : Currently in a Loop state; but this Op exits a Subroutine !
asciilifeform: ^ final draft of ch18.
asciilifeform: !A @foo@;; ! QY
pehbot: asciilifeform: foo;
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo]([;]); ! QY
pehbot: asciilifeform: foo
asciilifeform: ^ does Right Thing .
asciilifeform: i'ma leave the bot alive nao , for if anyone wants to play.
BingoBoingo: <Mocky> I'm going to finish moving my blog over to mpwp this week. I expect I'll need some pizarro assistance for go-live. Then Imma post remaining handful of Qatar posts, including video of my address to Doha derpchain gathering. << Let me know what you need
asciilifeform: !A @foo@.3R*; .3!!!#
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000051
Mocky: BingoBoingo: once i get everything imported to my satisfaction on mockyhabeeb.com I'd like to cut over to mocky.org, so apache config I think
asciilifeform: !A @aa@[a].7:!.1-",_; @bb@[b].5:!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 59 IP: 11 Symbol: '!' : No Subroutines were defined prior to this position!
asciilifeform: err
asciilifeform: !A @aa@[a].7:.1-",_; @bb@[b].5:!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
pehbot: asciilifeform: cbaaaaacbaaaaacbaaaaa
BingoBoingo: Mocky: Aite, just let me know when
Mocky: will do
asciilifeform: !A @aa@[a]; LC @bb@[b]@aa!; RC @bb!
pehbot: asciilifeform: ba
asciilifeform: !A @aa@[a]; LC @bb@[b]@aa!; RC @aa!
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 32 IP: 32 Symbol: '!' : Attempted movement to IP: 5 violates the Cutout!
asciilifeform: ^ the Right Thing.
asciilifeform: that's pretty much it.
asciilifeform: ffa_calc.adb : 1665 loc .
Mocky: peh looks quite interesting
asciilifeform: !A @aa@.7:[a].1-",_; @bb@[b].5:!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
pehbot: asciilifeform: cbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
asciilifeform: !A @aa@.7:[a].1-",_; @bb@.5:[b]!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
pehbot: asciilifeform: cbaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaacbaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaacbaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaa
asciilifeform: aanyway
asciilifeform: Mocky: most battlefield pehtapes , i expect, will be ~much~ easier to read than these ( e.g. will include comments, an' meaningful names ) . these, are simply micro demos that fit in log line
asciilifeform: at some pt i'ma publish the emacs majormode for editing pehs. it is ~much~ easier with colours etc
asciilifeform: but imho 1st it oughta become 'second nature' for the n00b , to read the examples with naked eye
Mocky: indeed so
asciilifeform: it oughta be , after study, entirely obvious from single eyeball walk why each 1 does what it does
asciilifeform: any given piece of peh tape cannot refer to anything that lies to the right of it, ergo 1 walk suffices
mircea_popescu: Mocky, pressing something's a good idea, for sure, even if it's just some patches on mp-wp chain say.
mircea_popescu: item should be ~the most accessible if i had to guess.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, what sounds good ? you wanna do the ada db wrapper for instance ?
mircea_popescu: or you wanna try your hand at http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128270 ?
Mocky: ada sounds good. I'm not sure if db wrapper is a good starting point though, maybe work up to it
Mocky: start with perhaps: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904977 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 21:31 asciilifeform: i'll add that even a tcp skin wouldn't be entirely useless ( right nao the only way to write a wwwistic proggy in ada is to use adacorpse's 'gnatsockets' crock of shit )
mircea_popescu: that could work, sure.
mircea_popescu: other than that, a) if you'd rather mostly deal with c legacy codebase you could also work with diana_coman on an eulora client ; b) if you'd rather do evanghelism work the original job in the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903518 line is still open -- you could work to advertise your castle in heathenworld (leverages pizarro directly ; and if you're serious about not leaving the ushithole you can incorporate it regula ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-19 23:18 mircea_popescu: if anyone recalls, at that time the intended republic-sponsored kegger party at the site of some anti-usg rebellion died over portland's apparent failure to produce beer & sluts under ben_vulpes 's direction.
mircea_popescu: rly as a church and all that line).
mircea_popescu: ie, there's a lot both tech and non tech holes to fill.
Mocky: I am serious about finding a way out of mordor. I'm interested in both tech & non tech hole filling: giving the matter due consideration so as to avoid http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828117 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 16:22 mircea_popescu: if you just run by whatever shines you'll get overwhelmed and then depressed at how the sand sucks effort with no visible return.
mircea_popescu: well, im not sure i follow what;s going on, but didn't you execute a 1. i must pay dubaloos so and so a month to landlord therefore -> 2. i must take job in empire and thus logically -> 3. gotta live there ?
Mocky: I did. And now I'm going to find a way out that doesn't involve poverty.
mircea_popescu: so basically what you're saying is that you're only firmly decided to stay in us for the ~mid term~ as opposed to "more than that" ?
Mocky: Yes. and also firmly decided to make the mid term as short as possible
mircea_popescu: well, mid term is mid term, what, three, five, ten years. none of the items described there are longer commitments anyway, you can totally get a church going in the mid term -- if it goes anywhere i'm sure there'll be who wants to take over if / when you feel like leaving.
Mocky: i have no objection to that line of thinking
mircea_popescu: basically the discriminant there was "decided to staay or leave ? if stay, x, if leave, dunno, maybe go to paraguay see if can help bingo get that hardware shop off the ground or something"
mircea_popescu: (i kinda suspect BingoBoingo would do a lot better with a partner on the grounds, tbh)
mircea_popescu: uruguay*
Mocky: staying in mordor for now.
mircea_popescu: aite, well, see what works for you!
Mocky: is this that evanglism thing? http://btcbase.org/log/2014-05-15#675799 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-05-15 04:08 benkay: http://www.followthecoin.com/dogepdx-portlands-biggest-dogecoin-party/
mircea_popescu: naah.
mircea_popescu: the original discussion was, sec lemme find it...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-03#1359583 << there. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-01-03 12:57 mircea_popescu is contemplating paying for some kegers.
Mocky: ahh, thx
mircea_popescu: the context was, some farmers were disputing usg's territorial claim, and it'd have been a decent opportunity for some keks. free beer, collegiate sluts, get a party going, let the landsknecht deal wirth it
mircea_popescu: (same exact blueprint that's working quite so splendidly to embarass french pantsuit these days, exactly)
mircea_popescu: item crumpled over absent grassroots. not that it's hard to remedy : get a church registered, organize donation campaigns, get some real estate and run events off it, there you go.
mircea_popescu: the place is quite ripe for it, on one hand lots and lots and lots of useless and idle youth, on the other hand large paper fortunes desperate for some protection. can very well get paid to "protect the household" while selling tickets to rape the wife, it's 100% a opera buffa sorta sittuation.
Mocky: "go to qatar" "start a church" ... crazy shit I tell you
mircea_popescu: all that's needed is the proper an' adequate supply of pippins der kurzen
mircea_popescu: Mocky, i'm just laying it on the table, plainly. i'm not trying to force you into nonsense.
Mocky: I only say that because on some level it appeals
Mocky: what's pippins der kurzen?
mircea_popescu: yeah. but the contrary consideration's certainly sound, "let's do things in the order they can be done in, as opposed to any other."
mircea_popescu: Mocky, pepin the short was the original carolingian king of the franks. started career as exactly that, "being paid to guard the household while selling tickets to rape the wives"
mircea_popescu: "mayor of the palace", whatever.
Mocky: I had a dream 3 nights ago that I walked down a row of 4 houses and banged on each door as I went past yelling "send our your oldest girl" and the doors all opened and 4 female lions came running out as if to chase and attack me. But I stared them down and told them they are with me now. Apparently they were talking lions because they all said "ok" and then followed me as I walked off.
mircea_popescu: is this you trying your hand at mosesing ?
Mocky: actual dream. and now i'm heading to bed
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm sure you can get decent chunks of dubaloos directly from fiat "government" for "outreach work with disadvantaged youth".
mircea_popescu: same exact youth that then go and bludgeon police into the ground. rinse, repeat, scale up, take over.
mircea_popescu: and nighty-night.
mircea_popescu: and for the rotaku club : https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/A_zecea_muz%C4%83 (one of caragiale's best satires, utterly destructuring "modern" world.)
BingoBoingo: Local cop shop burglarized: https://archive.is/Tbxb5
billymg: Mocky: i plan to have my recent remove-tinymce patch updated to go on top of hanbot's this weekend, if you'd like to use for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1904998 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-27 00:55 Mocky: I'm going to finish moving my blog over to mpwp this week. I expect I'll need some pizarro assistance for go-live. Then Imma post remaining handful of Qatar posts, including video of my address to Doha derpchain gathering.
billymg: a freshly pressed copy of the divergent patch found here http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mp-wp&search= has been running on my blog since sunday though
billymg: and i did pretty thorough local QAing before publishing, but having more testers would be great
mircea_popescu: billymg, if you're happy with it, one thing you could do is patch your testing suite as an alternate patch off mp-wp genesis ; this way people looking to test can just use it (and patch atop it if need be) rather than write from scratch. ☟︎
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: Sent 2 hours and 53 minutes ago: <spyked> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mtpZa/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: same goes for whoever else has a good testing suite for whatever they're maintaining : publishing a "devel" branch, including testing and whatever else tooling in that vein is certainly a legitimate use of forking the v tree.
mircea_popescu: this way, someone looking to test presses to both heads and voila. it has the potential to significantly improve the quality of testing done, both in the sense of total and highwater mark.
mircea_popescu: mtpza, srsly ?
mircea_popescu: i guess it wasn't mtpzd, at least....
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> (i kinda suspect BingoBoingo would do a lot better with a partner on the grounds, tbh) << I suspect similar ☟︎
mircea_popescu: well in the meanwhile stop burning so much incense on the melancholy temple. idle hands an' all that!!
BingoBoingo: Well, walks are getting easier now that the wind and chill is clearing the locals off the riverwalk
mircea_popescu: it's started here, the wind. it'd be tornado level anywhere else, it freely moves the damned car on the highway, "what the fuck, is my direction shot what the fuck is this ?!" "just windy" "holy shit!"
BingoBoingo: The extremes were more extreme back on the plains of old country, but here the baseline level of air movement is quite a bit higher.
mircea_popescu: !!up grangerstranger
deedbot: grangerstranger voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: grangerstranger, who the hell are you then ? ☟︎
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: fwiw everything I published v-versioned has the tests included as a subdir with its own .gpr file and all that; I'm not sure a fork of the V-tree is really needed for this (i.e. deleting a whole dir is easier than maintaining a for as far as I see it atm).
diana_coman: a fork not a for, lol
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, word. it's more a thing for something like mp-wp, which is a sort of enduser app so to speak, than something like eucrypt that's basically a library, or in any case a building block intended for use in forging.
diana_coman: I can see it, yes.
diana_coman: re grangerstranger it's really that those never talking actually are ghosts even if poked? what a surprise
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, there's a pronstarlet the naming reminds me of.
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/kimmygrangerxxx
diana_coman: eh, what's to stop stealing internet names if images is too hard; but anyway.
mircea_popescu: nothing, certainly.
diana_coman: "Dudes are out here going to the gym to only work out their arms and chest and constantly skip everything below their torso." aahaha
diana_coman: in fairness though,I'd say it's untrue: there's LOTS of dicking around so they...try!
mircea_popescu: easy enough to check, on the other side. but yes, chick's a cut above the usual dickowsy.
mircea_popescu: "My friends: We really need to start talking nicer to eachother 4 minutes later: “You really are a stupid ass bitch”"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik 'granger' is today an agricultural gear supplier in usa . ( named after 19th c union thing of some variety )
asciilifeform: so entirely generic string .
mircea_popescu: it was a fleeting momentary thought! such as occurs in my box occasionally! i'm not proposing marriage over here!!1
grangerstranger: what about me?
grangerstranger: unfortunately i got named by friends and it just kinda stuck
asciilifeform: grangerstranger: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905120 . very specific q. got answer ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-27 17:49 mircea_popescu: grangerstranger, who the hell are you then ?
mircea_popescu: grangerstranger, what do you do for a living and why are you here would be decent starting points.
grangerstranger: im a magical being
grangerstranger: network security
mircea_popescu: a ok.
mircea_popescu: !!down grangerstranger
asciilifeform: gotta wonder re the thought process. door clearly marked 'If you don't know where you are, you shouldn't be here.' eh . ☟︎
mircea_popescu: no markings are clear in modern democracy. it's written in the constitution : everyone is to be idemnified for all things they do not read. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: ^ Pretty much the divide between Republic and the outside
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/lavare/ << Trilema -- L'avare
asciilifeform: in other noose ! http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6rnvA/?raw=true << prelim. smoke test of ch18 example 2048b prime gen. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/USsFD/?raw=true << sample output with timing. all the primes pass on e.g. wolfram's , if anyone has a favourite 3rdparty litmus, plox to try also when ch18 posted.
asciilifeform: on avg. takes 1 - 50 (worst so far) sec. on the 'standard' test box.
asciilifeform: will post coupla moar outs momentarily.
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4yRiK/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5NJ3N/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0jyWs/?raw=true .
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/eCTfy/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gmIsx/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3184T/?raw=true .
asciilifeform: ^ 6 shots .
asciilifeform: grr, timings didn't make it in; range from <1 to 70sec
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman , et al ^ plox to comment .
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, what am i commenting on ?
asciilifeform: if the q returned a null, not problem, lol
asciilifeform: example is to illustrate style, i did not particularly doubt that it'd work as described .
mircea_popescu: i dun see the problem, so it takers a minute. current gpg takes as much, and ssh which doesn't is sucja cryptojoke as to not be worth the mention.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/my-very-own-never-before-published-slut-famous-crab-dip-recipe/ << Trilema -- My very own, never before published, slut-famous, crab dip recipe
asciilifeform: the carryaway is that ( with operating fg ) it'll take <2min to bake a 4096bit key .
asciilifeform: on current ffa ( i.e. no asmisms )
mircea_popescu: nb.
asciilifeform: it's ~= the figure i predicted on napkin, but nao has experimental confirm.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, koch takes approx same time, and that's with him not using rng witnesses at all iirc...
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: prolly on acct of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2906 -ism
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ssh iirc uses ellipticisms by default, so whole own category of joak
asciilifeform: grr, earlier typo, not ~1s fastest of course, but 16 , lol
asciilifeform: ~16 - ~70 range.
asciilifeform: granted for actual key will want also random e , and will reject some p,q,e triples based on the obvious rule
asciilifeform: ( so i expect will be ~7 min. or so per 4096b key, on iron of this horse )
asciilifeform: for thread-completeness, will add that it is possible to speed up the algo by giving not only 1 'primorial up to width' but it and then whichever number of product(n+1th-prime ... n+i-th prime) that yet again fit in the width, and so forth, for any desired # of small primes, for the initial sieve
asciilifeform: to reduce the # of sad candidates that m-r ends up eating
asciilifeform: ( naturally at no point will the algo complete faster than the time eaten by the given # of m-r rounds specified )
asciilifeform: tbh i cannot however think of when or where i would say 'ugh, 10min is too long for baking a 4096b key'..
asciilifeform: ( when 1st started ffa, was quite ready to live with 'keygen takes hour+' ftr )
asciilifeform: diana_coman back in the day posted old-style mpi timings but i do not know on what irons so cannot readily compare .
asciilifeform: 'A relatively short test run obtained 40 random primes of 2048 bits each in 13274 seconds in total (3.7 hours) meaning on average 331.85 seconds per prime (~6 minutes).'
asciilifeform: ( also had 'an average of 9.78 seconds per M-R run' , on again i dun presently know which irons )
asciilifeform: tho unless i misread, that ^ figure included 16 iterations thereof, rather than 1
asciilifeform: ( in asciilifeform's demo, proggy halts when candidate passes 32 rnds )
asciilifeform: aanyways i expect that when diana_coman gets to eating ch18, we can compare properly .
diana_coman: asciilifeform: timings sounds good to me; I have it on the list to get some timings for comparison when I get to eat full FFA, yes; atm though I can tell for sure that 10 minutes for generating key is both fine and rather fast even.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: no rush, we'll find out how compares on given $iron when you get around to 18 .
diana_coman: on that d1 intel from http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/28/zcx-vs-sjlj-data-set/#selection-113.0-113.85 the tests of eucrypt that generate a key pair take at times ~20 min, just to give an idea ☟︎
asciilifeform: that's substantially faster box than mine ftr
asciilifeform: ( mine, used as ref for all ffa figs, is opteron 2393SE @ 3.1G )
asciilifeform: i also built at various points on a heathen i7 (2.8G) and there runs ~2x faster across the board, ftr
asciilifeform: ( the latter not used for any of the published tests, but to simply gauge the effect of 'modern' x86isms . fwiw does have constant-time mul etc )
asciilifeform deliberately uses oldest opteron in the torture room as 'standard ffa gauge' , if wasn't obv.
asciilifeform: ftr rk is effectively 2x, as measured, slower than this gauge box , on ffa.
asciilifeform: i expect that as moar folx eat ffa, we will have moar empirical figs to compare.
asciilifeform: fwiw 'speed of ffa' for applications involving modexp ( rsa keygen & enc/dec ) hinges ~entirely on speed of the multiplier unit in $iron .
asciilifeform: ( troo from ch14b and up )
asciilifeform bbl,tea
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/lavaro/ << Trilema -- L'avaro
Mocky: billymg: if your tinymce patch is ready this weekend I'll test it with my setup. ☟︎
Mocky: I may end up having a follow up vpatch for mpwp as well
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/03/british-soldier-faces-charges-over-friendly-fire-in-video-game-exercise/ << Qntra -- British Soldier Faces Charges Over Friendly Fire In Video Game Exercise
BingoBoingo: ^ From Spreadsheets in Space to Field Exercises in Spreadsheets!
mircea_popescu: whole tower of shit's derealizing at a shocking rate.
BingoBoingo: Seriousky, all that's left is shit and graft fulfilled with more shit
asciilifeform: in other noose, 100 shots of that 2048bit-prime baker : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DjaVe/?raw=true ; min=13, max=299, avg=61, median=47 (seconds) .
asciilifeform: ( same params, i.e. pronounced prime if passes m-r with 32 rng-shat witnesses )
BingoBoingo: In still other news, US sheep herd hits an all time low.
asciilifeform: ( for n00bz -- prime gen parallelizes, obv., over as many cpu as you have. but ffa per se does not use threads, tho it can be run inside threads with no added headache )
asciilifeform: 4**(-32) ~= 5.4210e-20 , probability of fatal misfire for 32 rounds of m-r
asciilifeform: i.e. if you run somehow 1 per sec, will eat a coupla dozen moon-size asteroids prior to getting misfire..
mircea_popescu: provided, of course, the witnesses aren't correlated.
asciilifeform: obv
asciilifeform: or rad event in yer irons, also fairly high prob regardless of how you baked rng
asciilifeform: ( high in comparison with the naked 4**-x that is )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interestingly, iirc even to bake 32 liars (having control of the witnesses, presupposes) that 1) all diff 2) work for some n -- is open problem atm
mircea_popescu: afaik there was constructive approach
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you recall where, plz link
mircea_popescu: but also afaik, it doesn't work with "and all same size"
asciilifeform: nah i'd be satisfied with 'here's n, and here's 32 unequal m-r liars for n'
asciilifeform: i recall digging for this, and instead finding conjecture that no canhaz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's eg ~20mn carmichael numbers under 10^20 ☟︎
asciilifeform: carmichaels dun have much to do with m-r
asciilifeform: ( it's fermat that chokes on'em )
mircea_popescu: yes ; but by analogy i expect it's possible you have some m-r liars up to the large (4096 bit is a large number) numbers we're dealing wqith
asciilifeform: in m-r, for prime p, 3/4 of the integers are troof-tellers for p
asciilifeform: *at least 3/4
asciilifeform: usually much moar
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/gambit/ << Trilema -- Gambit
mircea_popescu: the problem's converse : construct k integers that are false witnesses for the primality of the pq product.
asciilifeform: ( troof-teller i.e. correctly triggers m-r's 'this is composite' litmus )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: takes same time as to find m-r false witness for anyffing else
asciilifeform: i.e. throw p*q in m-r , with random witness, and see if correctly outputs 'composite'
asciilifeform: rinse, repeat
asciilifeform: q is whether there is a better algo
mircea_popescu: ima have to dig this up, pretty sure i read up on this (very limited) mewthod of constructing m-r false witnesses for a two-primes product.
asciilifeform: cuz this one is 'geological'
mircea_popescu: the principal problem with it was that they ended up large.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that'd entirely fit the bill, if you find it
asciilifeform: esp. if it runs in human time
asciilifeform: then can say 'enemy who fed you a magic p, and then 32 selected witnesses, can lead you off cliff'
mircea_popescu: there is ~some~ overlap between carmichael and m-r (eg 1729 is a pretty reliable flase witness).
asciilifeform quite interested in conceptual diddles on m-r in light of phuctor
mircea_popescu: in fact m-r is a sorta upgraded fermat
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the operative diff is, 3/4 is lower bound. i.e. there aint a composite where 3/4 of the integers aint proper witness.
mircea_popescu: i just me4ant formally, p ^ n-1 = 1 vs p ^ (n-1)/2 = +-1
asciilifeform: somehow enemy gotta feed you errything other than those 3/4..
mircea_popescu: finding the nontrivial square roots of 1 modulo n is a hard problem ; but constructing some is not. anyway, not right now in the best form to go through archives but will see to this.
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu , plox to post if/when find
mircea_popescu: you're in luck!
mircea_popescu: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747717185710425
asciilifeform: neato ( tho could've sworn nao that we had it in log... )
mircea_popescu: dood actually lists a 400 digit number to which ~300 items are strong liars
mircea_popescu: (bases of a)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it wouldn't surprise me if we did, no.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dun suppose you have the text lying around?
mircea_popescu: packed somewhere im sure, but im not gonna proceed extracting rightnao.
asciilifeform: aite, if anyone finds, plz post
asciilifeform: iirc i saw this item at some pt, and fella really did bake a p that 'passes m-r' for buncha ~small~ bases
asciilifeform: ( as used in kochisms )
asciilifeform: what'd be interesting is to find algo that bakes a large composite n , and shits forth arbitrary # of 'plausible-looking' large but false witnesses
asciilifeform: ( even moar interesting, would be to find litmus for some variant of this being in use, then could point it at phuctor collection & pull trigger )
mircea_popescu: in more practical terms : about 1/4 of products of strong liars are also strong liars, which is another constructive direction.
mircea_popescu: ie, you don';t have to try "all", but do try all mutual products of all known carmichael numbers.
asciilifeform: iirc it is how the linked item worked
asciilifeform: or something quite like
asciilifeform frustrated, could've sworn he saw it with own eyes at some pt
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/03/27/peso-watch-march-2019/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Peso Watch March 2019
mircea_popescu: the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905222 item is relevant, because if you were to enumerate the pairs you'd be looking at 20mn!/2!(20mn-2)!, which is truly a staggering nuymber, of possible liars of a size up to 10^40 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-27 23:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's eg ~20mn carmichael numbers under 10^20
mircea_popescu: but even taking a small selection among these to produce a sieve, and then churning a bunch of composites through it, might produce some lulz.
asciilifeform: all of this , as i understand, only is interesting if enemy knows (or can set) which will be your witnesses. cuz by basic m-r , 3/4 of possible inputs for witness will still give correct diagnosis of compositude
mircea_popescu: all of this is only interesting if enemy can set your witnesses, correct.
mircea_popescu: i thought that's what we were looking at.
asciilifeform: right
asciilifeform: in koch for instance.
asciilifeform: will be lulzy if we end up finding that koch's 'whitener' actually optimizes for sad N
mircea_popescu: another piece of the puzzle is that while small numbers are ~perfect~ witnesses for up to a certain value, they become terrible witnesses thereupon, which is why small witnesses are useless in crypto
mircea_popescu: (and also why the usual crowd of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-02#1883944 systematically push them) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-02 18:57 mircea_popescu: what's hilarious is the ever-present http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/#selection-154.0-157.103 whereby they'll imaginarily seat themselves in my seat and start spewing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 slash assorted nonsense about "homebrew crypto" lalala.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall, the derpcrypto folx use not only small, but ~fixed~ witnesses, lol
asciilifeform: ahahaha the 'ohnoez , homebrew crypto' people
asciilifeform is almost surprised none of'em left comment in ffa series, 'bbbut didntcha read in schneier, you oughtnt homebrew crypto!11'