asciilifeform: re emacs scriptolade -- really gotta keep it clean, for, if nuffin else -- the fact that it uses a 1970s style lisp where 'stop-the-world gc' is in use , not really meant for heaviweight programmatism
asciilifeform: trinque: aa, so you jettisoned some scriptolade, rather than emacs per se. i misread.
asciilifeform: for instance, asciilifeform has '9000' processes on this and other boxen, where uses 'screen+bash+etc for tards' even though theoretically 'could emacs' ( see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869024 ) , because they ~must not crash~ and emacs is unthreaded and hosable☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: in point of fact there are serious design flaws in emacs that make dog/flea separation extremely difficult. but iirc we already had that thread not long ago.
asciilifeform: i can't think of any reason to tolerate. but i also dun have a from-the-ground replacement for emacs per se.
asciilifeform: if maggot had never found emacs, as most do not, will maggot on top of sumthingelse.
asciilifeform: that'd be 'calc', a diff emacs plugin.
asciilifeform: trb, emacs ( might be hard cookie, but gotta ) , various engineering tools
asciilifeform: so looking to put colour emacs in there or wat
asciilifeform: theoretically i'd rather have 1 pedal instead of 2, but emacs aint stable/uncrashable enuff for me to comfortably move in
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-02#1869016 << this is prolly a neato item but (to the possible surprise of some people) asciilifeform doesn't 'live in emacs' in the sense of using it for things that ain't files-on-disk editing☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: aaand that's if you can coax emacs into not wasting the 1st and last cols.
asciilifeform: i'd very willingly trade my coloured emacs for 1bit b&w thing, at least on sunny day.
asciilifeform: a ~1s redraw would moar than suffice for emacs.
asciilifeform: i dun recall asking for 'use THIS .emacs' lol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855080 << i stole the notion , in slightly modified form, from knuth. the logic is, decrementing versions, with finite initial N, support a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851362 flow , where 'if you fucked it N+1 times , nao forced to call proggy something else' -- specifically in opposition to the heathen plague of runaway ver nums (e.g. linux kernel, emacs, firefox, etc)☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: so, you won't be running emacs on it, no.
asciilifeform: ( you won't play 'doom' on a 1hz monitor, but e.g. emacs , will work )
asciilifeform: it's a pile of shit, just like emacs, kernel, gcc, all the rest of the sad sack of shit errybody is stuck using.
asciilifeform: trinque: i can only assume that 'make emacs unrunnable on this' was specific objective
asciilifeform: even got x running, and entirely unmodified emacs, browsers, etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see binaries as a cache for src . ( exactly in fact how emacs sees it. ) and thereby i have approx same interest in downloading and running bins built by ~others~ , as in stuffing food they have pre-digested somehow into my own gut, bypassing mouth
asciilifeform: the 2 major ones i specifically recall in logs were 'screen' and emacs
asciilifeform: compared to, e.g., trb reactor dismantlement and rod replacement , re-creating the useful part of emacs is light work.
asciilifeform: yes. tho currently toolbox consists of rusty old emacs, and ~barehands.
asciilifeform recently had lengthy emacs convo with asciilifeform's brother, greybeard incurable emacsist , re 'yes we will ditch the autoinstallable packets' . initially horrified, then it dawned on him
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the main q is not re how many, but whether there is an 'emacs'-like boojum among'em. buildroot will just as happily build 9000 deps as 1.
asciilifeform: generally speaking unless one or moar of your deps is weird in the 'emacs' way (i.e. does something obscene with glibc-specific pheatures) it's a straight mechanical job, like rotor.
asciilifeform: phf: i thought you had a working dos emacs..?
asciilifeform: 'In the tricky middle ground of 95-96%, his position would depend on why builds were non-reproducible, as there are a few valid reasons for this to happen. In response to another question, he said that two good reasons for a non-reproducible build were packages that build inside their own virtual machine, such as Emacs, and security packages with signing keys such as secure boot. ' << lolwaaat
asciilifeform: ergo the keeping of linux, emacs, etc on life support.
asciilifeform: emacs lives on because it is a kind of oasis
asciilifeform: re 'manifest matter at will' : in early 2000s asciilifeform grasped the mega-problem , that programming ain't actually hard, except for stripping away the monkey shit produced by 50 yrs of monkey. 'i want a sane emacs' turned into 'sane prog lang' and quickly 'sane os' then 'sane iron' , and afaik this actually the inevitable correct cut, rather than caprice
asciilifeform: same thing as in the earlier emacs thread
asciilifeform: iirc there is a wwwtron , of a kind, built into emacs; it is in roughly the same condition as climacs.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. for an infinite loop in sbcl, to not hose emacs )
asciilifeform doesn't, because does not particularly like the 'emacs hosed, all machine may as well reset' dynamic
asciilifeform: out of curiosity, do we currently have folx who irc via emacs ? ( ben_vulpes ? )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you dun do it in emacs, tho, afaik ?
asciilifeform: ( tho i can picture a hypothetical commonlisp-emacs that doesn't ever need to socket , because has compiler inside, like ye olde borland )
asciilifeform: ( even on my opteron, emacs is still a ~five second load , note )
asciilifeform: ( and, just how much loss of load speed are we talking about, if it is thrown out entirely, and emacs gets to compile ~all~ of its elisp erry time it loads ? )
asciilifeform: trinque: recall, there was a headache with emacs on musl
asciilifeform: will be gnarly if cuntoo dun build grandfather-emacs without major butchery.
asciilifeform: slightly upstack -- even if mircea_popescu were to proclaim 'we gotta have climacs', ~100% of the work will be done ~in~... emacs
asciilifeform: theoretically no good reason to keep it. aside from the fact that current body of emacs is largely composed ~of~ it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: slime is an emacs 'mode' for working with commonlisp.
asciilifeform: phf: if slime and ada mode can be made to run, it'll be a livable emacs per my lights.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: emacs is a 'modal' system, i.e. every programming language gets a mode, implemented as a set of elisp proggies, that completely changes the behaviour of the editor to (ideally) make it entirely suited to writing that particular form of text
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my current understanding , is that each emacs user alive , at some time in his life, took the thing and whittled away the spikes that his particular hands fell on most often.
asciilifeform: jurov: of all the sharp edges emacs indubitably has -- i have yet to witness this one.
asciilifeform: in so far asciilifeform is concerned, the 'universal' workstation is emacs-in-ratpoison.☟︎
asciilifeform: we had no fewer than 3 'emacs is duct tape' threads here.
asciilifeform: trinque: 'which emacs?' prolly deserves a thread. lessee what phf says, i bet he has an earlier one than mine
asciilifeform: btw trinque which emacs is in your ebuildtron ?
asciilifeform: phf: dun look at me, my emacs bin reads 8 Apr 20 2013
asciilifeform: xemacs has 0 to do with the emacs e.g. asciilifeform today runs under x11.
asciilifeform: i pointedly do NOT agree that 'having to use an external tool like cp command' is a problem. for fuckssake you have to use a non-vtron tool to edit the coad ! vtron dun replace emacs.
asciilifeform: emacs per se is nothing to write home about, it is full of gnarly archaicisms , and the default keymapping will, as naggum described, destroy your hands , unless you fix it
