mircea_popescu: if you ever meet a hungarian speaking foreign languages you just met a jew.
pete_dushenski: i wonder what other peoples/nationalities this heuristic might apply to...
gribble: Current Blocks: 341706 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 1013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 45251697037.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.64029
jurov: btw, are the pogosticks supposed to accept outside connections? if they're plugged into home routers then we need upnp then
jurov: and it was the first thing excised... it will ran as standalone daemon, i guess
jurov: the upnpnp deamon, i mean
mircea_popescu: i doubt someone who has the werewithal to get the pogo going needs me to unpnp him
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 237.8, Best ask: 238.94, Bid-ask spread: 1.14000, Last trade: 237.79, 24 hour volume: 15989.25963627, 24 hour low: 221.79, 24 hour high: 241.98, 24 hour vwap: 229.507388939
pete_dushenski: I think that in the old days where the financial system was not too developed, the only way to develop a new idea was to be born rich, to have resources and use them. Today and increasingly so to the extent the financial system works well, you can start a company, apply an idea, or even run large companies even if you are not born rich and don't have a lot of money.
trinque: today as back then, you can bootstrap yourself so long as you're prepared to lay brick by hand for a half decade
pete_dushenski: unless the vc fairy sprinkles some dust on you while you're sleeping
thestringpuller: trinque hah; you are going to treat your robots like people?
pete_dushenski: and 11 year olds can give ted talks on how to fix the world
mircea_popescu: similarly, in the old days when you were born a maid, you were going to be a maid even if you were really pretty.
trinque: pete_dushenski: the vc fairy wanted 67% of my business
mircea_popescu: it's not common to allow founders control in the financed vehicle, principally because founders usually fuck it up.
mats: unconfirmed report of someone trying to root an ubuntu luser idli g herr
mats: agh, mobile. idling here.
mats: guy went to sleep before i got more details, im going to put up a vulnerable box later and see what happens
mats: get a cloak, people
trinque: heh I wonder how many servers just got ssh'd into
trinque: I tend to assume things like znc are riddled with holes
trinque: could be something along those lines
mircea_popescu: "The turn of the cultural left to Twitter is a reflection of its weakness on university campuses, not its strength. Today’s intra-left fights over cultural identity are not the birth pangs of a dangerous new radical left elite of cultural enforcers. They’re the product of anger and economic powerlessness, the unanticipated result of the hollowing out of humanities on university campuses, and the parlous state of in
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5000 @ 0.00096956 = 4.8478 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: i tell you, within twenty years if that as much as having been interested in the left will be a hanging offense.
mircea_popescu: "This is in turn leading to an (unsustainable) proliferation of cultural commentary, some of it unreadable, but much of it sharp and interesting. Much of this commentary is understandably driven by spleen. Impoverished freelancers and adjunct intellectuals, scraping out a living from commuter teaching and dead end jobs, are angry when they look at the comfortable positions that a previous generation of humanities intel
mircea_popescu: lectuals had, and that they never will. They won’t ever have good jobs. They do have Twitter. But that’s nearly all that they do have or are likely to have any time soon."
mircea_popescu: that's quite right : nobody ovulating today will get as far as sara mccune.
mircea_popescu: even Leah McGrath Goodman's poverty will be relatively a high mark.
trinque: mats: this was the guy's issue?
trinque: way different than "rooted"
mircea_popescu: esp since... well... so dnsmasq will get killed by kernel
jurov: i have never seen anyone except myself opening ports the normal way
trinque: mircea_popescu: it's part of the awful libvirt wad
trinque: handles IPs and whatnot on the virtual networks
jurov: i won't contend that
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in retrospect, the efforts of those shitgremlins to shoehorn xml into things are so lulzy.
mircea_popescu: it's dead anyway, but hey, well done guise, at least you went blind on code.
jurov: jus' saying i don't have anyone to give pogostick to.
mircea_popescu: the reports of mark twain's rooting seem grossly exaggerated.
jurov: people who know how to open ports either do have a node or can't be arsed to even for free
jurov: if i do, then i'll add upnp anyway. just fyi.
mircea_popescu: jurov not a crime. but you could also just 192.0.0.1 and typeadmin admin
jurov: yes, as a separate daemon
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it occurs that at 4mb, nodes can be run as virii by now without problems
mircea_popescu: especially since usgavin has made space double and bandwidth expand
mod6: in a wide variety of ways, and it's not consistant, we've been having issues getting past the last checkpoint block (more often than not): 168,000
mod6: one sec, i have a matrix for what we've tried.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik windows doens't mind secret partitions.
mod6: we're still testing this out... but i/we haven't encoutered anything like this until just this past 72 hours:
mod6: we're interested to see if anyone running: v0.5.3 + patches {1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, & 6 (db_config) } runs into the same issues.
mod6: also, v0.5.3. + patches {1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7} (which includes the version update)
mircea_popescu: A Person Paper on Purity in Language << i don't grok wtf this is supposed to be.
mod6: we also note that if you do remove checkpoints, obv, this is no longer a problem.
mod6: but, its weird, because a week ago i ran a full sync of: v0.5.3 + {1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6} and sync'd just fine, as you can see in the matrix notes (was able to send/receive here:
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=FSA9gxs8) mod6: and TomServo was able to run with the following config and just achieved full sync: v0.5.3 + {1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7}
PeterL: what do the checkpoints do?
mod6: so, like we were saying, its not consistant. and perhaps we need to point directly at v0.5.3 nodes... not sure.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but looky : "Perhaps this piece shocks you. It is meant to. The entire point of it is to use something that we find shocking as leverage to illustrate the fact that something that we usually close our eyes to is also very shocking. The most effective way I know to do so is to develop an extended analogy with something known as shocking and reprehensible. Racism is that thing, in this case. I am happy w
mircea_popescu: ith this piece, despite-but also because of-its shock value. I think it makes its point better than any factual article could. As a friend of mine said, "It makes you so uncomfortable that you can't ignore it." I admit that rereading it makes even me, the author, uncomfortable! Numerous friends have warned me that in publishing this piece I am taking a serious risk of earning myself a reputation as a terrible racist. I
mircea_popescu: guess I cannot truly believe that anyone would see this piece that way. To misperceive it this way would be like calling someone a vicious racist for telling other people "The word 'nigger' is extremely offensive." If allusions to racism, especially for the purpose of satirizing racism and its cousins, are confused with racism itself, then I think it is time to stop writing."
mircea_popescu: there's nothing of depth in there, it;s just the usual libertard tedium.
mircea_popescu: and yes, women and men are structurally different, and will never be the same.
mircea_popescu: not in the way white men and black men are superficially different
mircea_popescu: he seems to be proposing the notion that saying she when i mean a cuntbearer is about as bad as inventing a special ble pronoun to denote a guy's color
mircea_popescu: well here's the thing : i don't happen to give a shit about the guy's color
mircea_popescu: but i'm not particularly interested to discuss anyone outside of their gender.
mircea_popescu: which is why english, latin and every other language has a gender pronoun and declension.
mircea_popescu: such a dumb premise tho. "i will write very bad prose, which will prove to you that sensible is shocking!!!1"
mircea_popescu: and somehow this gets conflated with marital status ? who the hell cares if the woman's "married" whatever that even means.
mircea_popescu apologizes for all the spam in the more important discussion.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i didn't see a 168000 exactly freeze either, ever
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: not once have i seen the wedge at 168000 << us either, until 72 hours ago
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if memory serves there'sa cutoff that severs unproductive connections after an hour.
mod6: so if anyone else sees any wedging on a checkpoint block like the following, let me know right away, pm me if required:
http://dpaste.com/1N3NPT9 mod6: asciilifeform: there is a snippit in the matrix one. not sure if I have a full one still.
mod6: i probably do, but I'm making a fresh sync now.
mod6: will have a fresh one in an hour or two
mod6: i was getting pretty paranoid at first.
mod6: had a tinfoil hat on and everything heheh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41350 @ 0.00037014 = 15.3053 BTC [+]
mod6: got 100k blocks to go until i probably re-wedge @ 168k
mod6: one time i got wedged at like 27,5XX !?
mod6: this was on Saturday night.
mod6: but then i applied the rm_checkpoints patch and then it continued on np.
mod6: We wanted to collect as much data as possible before we let other know in #b-a. Hence the delay until now.
mod6: I wasn't fully sure that it wasn't our build script or something wonky screwing it up... but a hand-build showed the same result.
mod6: i've got mutiple good v0.5.3 chains saved, but ... just was regression testing to ensure full sync with the v0.5.3.1 patch before release sign & cut
mod6: yeah. that's the new plan. all magic numbers in a config file.
mod6: or, at least, we'll start with that.
mod6: yeah, well, still is the plan i should say :)
mircea_popescu: i don't just "keep it around', it's what i actually use.
mircea_popescu: and yeah pretty sure we're not the onlyones. not by a longmargin.
mod6: hmm, but yeah, really /was/ weird that it was inconsistant.
mod6: i.e. TomServo having total success, and ben & I having weding problems.
mod6: and we were using same build scripts .. and me building by hand even once.
mircea_popescu: btw, since you were asking ( a while ago) : found the oldest src set, monday may 21st 2012
mod6: is it the portotronic?
mod6: yeah, totally different beast
mod6: but danielpbarron: good to know tho. thx.
mod6: we must get this patched RI repeatable (and it was before a few days ago) before we can cut release.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how doers this work, email to address, gz in attachment, clearsigned text as email body ?
mod6: yeah, i wanna re-iterate here, all of the wedging issues ben and I had were /with/ checkpoints included. if we apply the rm_checkpoints patch, no longer a problem.
punkman: just sent a patch to the list, wonder if it'll go through
danielpbarron: i'm just running that one while i figure the compile out
mod6: 130k...will stop @ 150 and backup .bitcoin/*
mod6: well, but also, i like i was saying, it's inconsistant. because TomServo has checkpoints included and he got through the gauntlet, and I did as well lastweek before the version patch.
mircea_popescu: except... i kept saying it and saying it since ages ago ?
mircea_popescu: always handwaved away by teh power rangers, but hey, you don't end up at the bottom of my shitlist by being responsive and responsible.
mircea_popescu: all the people who act all shocked when gavin & co can't get enough credit to write a hello world in basic fail to recognize about two years of history trying to gently nudge, then educate, then eventually beat the idiots into some sort of shape
mike_c: probably just culled from bitcoin-seeder, no?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can i get some public/private separation here!
decimation: so are there actually isps that filter port 8333 or was that just made up bullshit?
mircea_popescu: i mean, obviously, an idiot will exist for whatever idiocy. pretending that "transsexuals are hot now" is just trannie wet dreamin'.
decimation: re: hedge funds & banks manipulating pr << one wonders if they are trying to jawbone bitcoin down in order to buy in, or kill?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah port 445 is amusing. I remember years ago when you could 'hack' by clicking 'show network neighborhood' on winblows
decimation: I wonder if anyone has attempted to hack around with docsis at the physical layer
decimation: supposedly traffic on the wire is encrypted
decimation: apparently docsis 3.1 uses 2048-bit rsa for the device, 4096 for the root ca
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106657 @ 0.00038332 = 40.8838 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99203 @ 0.00039021 = 38.71 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 185750 @ 0.00036981 = 68.6922 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Our thoughts are also with the measles-ravaged country America. I hope we are screening them before they come to Africa.
BingoBoingo would not be surprised if traveler leaving US get quarentined for "Health Screenings" in the not to distant future.
Vexual: even if just to check if your dna is the same as when you arrived
punkman: asciilifeform: question is where to host massscan instance
decimation: asciilifeform: docsis 3.1 uses aes-cbc 128-bit keys
decimation: ah "The CM MUST have two factory installed CM Device Certificates (and their associated private keys). The CM MUST have a CM Device Certificate installed that is issued from the new PKI. The CM MUST have a CM Device Certificate installed that is issued from the legacy PKI. The CM MUST have the same RSA public key in the CM Device Certificate as the RSA public key in the BPKM Attributes depending upon which CM Device Certificate is
decimation: used for authentication. The CM MUST use the CM Device Certificate issued from the new PKI when authenticating with a DOCSIS 3.1 or higher CMTS. The CM is to use the CM Device Certificate issued from the legacy PKI when authenticating with a DOCSIS 3.0 or older version of DOCSIS CMTS."
punkman: removes cpumining functions
decimation: don't worry little consumer, your device uses 'military grade crypto'
decimation: lol "The CM MUST be able to process certificate serial number values containing 20 octets or fewer. The CM MUST accept certificates that have serial numbers that are negative or zero."
Vexual: japanese torrentboxes are abundant
decimation: asciilifeform: surely the miner need not be part of the same binary turdball?
decimation: aye, the cpu mining code can come with
punkman: asciilifeform: yeah I'm not sure it should be removed, the foundation shall decide. it was good for practice anyway
decimation: asciilifeform: in general, docsis is a "reference implementation" of usg crypto, complete with fips standards etc.
Vexual: if youre making a node box, youd better have somewhere to plug in a miner
decimation: well, the amusing part is the key escrow
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah presumably if they wanted the packets they would just squeeze the ip stack at the isp
decimation: cable companies don't want mickey mouse crypto to cause some kind of pr incident
decimation: your traffic is for the eyes of those who are authorized to have it
decimation: aye. but the problem with this system is that they have put all their eggs in the manufacturer's basket
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> can also scan the old-fashioned way but then add two or three zeros to time required. << yes, but cheap enough :)
mircea_popescu: don't lol mr, my work on this topic has been reviewed by internet csseconomists and other lolexperts. plus oleg leganza.
assbot: Logged on 28-08-2014 03:56:01; asciilifeform: there is also the tired, old, mundane 'there is a kilo of cocaine in your toilet tank' theorem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check out this funny happenstance : once bb dropped the philippines bomb ? 20 mb thread suddenly of no further interest, off first page etc.
mircea_popescu: the best part of tradecraft is that it is so god damned hard to do well.
mircea_popescu: it's just this font of lulz, like, hm... quintessentially american to me.
mircea_popescu: this was a simple woman who couldn't write, that infatuated herself with the notion that she can produce poetry
mircea_popescu: but she persevered. the exact manners in which she persevered are, to me, the best summary of the american spirit that can be had.
mircea_popescu: a) claimed that the poor arrangement / band / etc were the reason people "didn't like" her 2nd performance.
mircea_popescu: but then, for it doesn't end there! then she confronted teh comedy goldminers by saying that "they each paid a quarter to see a fool, but she's been paid 50 bux and sees a roomfull of fools"
mircea_popescu: but then!!11 for it has a c. then her husband , who you know, was hoping to be able to enjoy a drink in a bar without being laughed into the ground sometime before he dies completely forbade any further writings
mircea_popescu: so she stopped writing ~poetry~. and instead wrote a miserable novel
mircea_popescu: about a farmer. who was in debt. who was married to a marry sue, whose published novel saves the farm.
mircea_popescu: it's this particular concoction of the forcible solipsism of crusoe with the narcissism of a fifteen year old boy that grew up alone among cows, with the desperation of a dying beggar on the dark side of the moon.
mircea_popescu: and if you look at the place's history... those wolves that ate boston... their teeth are still visible in the striations of the skins of these people.
decimation: decimation: i wonder if the device keys have even been 'phuctored' ever. << "CMs MUST store and maintain the CM Device Certificate RSA private/public key pairs. The CM MUST store the CM Device Certificate private keys in a manner that deters unauthorized disclosure and modification. Also, CMs SHOULD prevent debugger tools from reading the CM Device Certificate private key in production devices by restricting or blocking physical
decimation: access to memory containing this key."
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> it's this particular concoction of the forcible solipsism of crusoe with the narcissism of a fifteen year old boy that grew up alone among cows, with the desperation of a dying beggar on the dark side of the moon. << ahahaha best review evar
mircea_popescu: i thought this was highly personal and entirely idiosyncratic a view
pete_dushenski: cazalla "negative media attention Bitcoin reguarly receives in the media" << regularly
mircea_popescu: there you go, who asked if to own or to burn ? to this.
mircea_popescu: if ubs wasn't so very bankrupt, it'd even matter more.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nobody lost his job as ubs cio by doing old idiocy
cazalla: asciilifeform, this one is new but UBS have mentioned it before
decimation: didn't some ubs guy jump out a window a few years ago
Vexual: if anyone patents blockchain, its because fuck
Vexual: einstein would be sitting there, drunk as fuck in austria, thinking, "nah thats the same shit"
mircea_popescu: ideally they patent the particular way in which they suck my cock.
mircea_popescu: so there's no confusion if i'm gettingserviced by oliver bussmann or by his mom.
decimation: "The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee released a report last month showing the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) targeted gun dealers and other businesses like payday lenders and pawn shops as illegal operations, and pressured banks to halt dealing with these businesses. The administration’s program is now known as Operation Choke Point, which is run by the Departments of Justice and Treasury."
mircea_popescu: i can;t wait for when it's not about the block size but about the total bitcoins, and it's noit about "saving africa" but about saving ubs, and the howlers are not on the forum but on every tv screen,
mircea_popescu: decimation pity they don't have the backbone (and leadership) to start a cash only program, and publicly denounce banking as a scam.
mircea_popescu: then start shooting police officers coming to steal the cash.
decimation: usg ought to be careful with pushing this kind of shit, you don't want the little people to become confused about banking
mircea_popescu: the nontriviality there is a little ofsometing else. the thought process of "she's a total bitch, let me try and work with her nevertheless" is responsible for more unhappy marriages than any other thing.
Vexual: i like the art deco font, reminds me of a time i can't possibly remember
mircea_popescu: not the right approach. bitch talks back, she gets slapped. she starts crying, she gets beaten. she screams, she gets cut loose.
Vexual: and a days folding money might fit in the back pocket
mircea_popescu: government is the bitch. the slightest getting in your way must be met with disproportionately escalated response until it either dies or gives up.
mircea_popescu: this is how small government is both obtained and maintained, and this is how a country that actually works is preserved.
mircea_popescu: and fwiw a principle i studiously observed throughout my life and in all aspects so far. cop wants to bitch about tickets, his department can enjoy thirty eight different lawsuits.
decimation: in this metaphor, us citizens are henpecked betas?
Vexual: do you pay the tickets for your limo mp?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more like "maintaining your penis in a state where it's enjoyable without ruining your life"
decimation: the problem is that the vector usg uses is civilization-destroying. essentially "obey the law" becomes more of a farce until it becomes a laughing matter
mircea_popescu: the usg has no priviledged relationship with the law. it's a poor mockery thereof.
mircea_popescu: we've made more good law here in the past year than the us congress in the past decade.
decimation: '“Google could be doing business with firearms businesses. The thing is they won’t because of their stance [against firearms]. I can’t advertise on Google. I can’t advertise on Facebook. I can’t use Amazon, because they prohibit the majority of my products. I closed down that account over a year ago, and I still get notices from them, regardless of the emails I sent to them telling them that I’m not selling with them.”
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ahahaha scammer cuts loose already introducing new scam ?
mircea_popescu: this may be one of the first ones that has made a profit.
mircea_popescu: he should start doing actually roi able advertising. create a festival. say in the place where they stole that guy's cattle grazing.
mircea_popescu: stop pussy-fucking-footing all around the broken, shattered remains of a thing that no longer exists.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform << <mircea_popescu> then start shooting police officers coming to steal the cash.
mircea_popescu: what exactly are they gonna do ? feed you for the next 30 years ? big whoop.
mircea_popescu: people need to seriously stop worrying about imaginary hobgoblins.
mircea_popescu: so what's the problem, if half a million people shoot half a million cops, they're going to build you a special country club and keep you there with all your friends ?
mircea_popescu: ie, less than the fucking effort to build the cardano.
mircea_popescu: heh. people keep derping about the 1% but don't really want to be teh 1% eh ?
mircea_popescu: fine. just as long as we all stop pretending like this is "impossible" and we understand that it's quite possible, perfectly feasible and practically effective.
mircea_popescu: then it can be a "but i dun want to" and everyone can go home happy.
decimation: mircea_popescu: but you said the same plan would not have worked for Louis XVI
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 05:34:16; mircea_popescu: decimation suppose you were king, and ordered the leningrad of paris. what then ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the principal problem of the byznatines was their cowardice
mircea_popescu: decimation you see the difference between being king and being, allegedly, a nation ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pattern is actually not required in insurection. determination only requisite ingredient, carries day.
mircea_popescu: decimation they're in fact the opposite sides of the same coin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform everything ever seems one thing until it isn't. you know ?
mircea_popescu: because the aliens aren't about to land with platinum visas for everyone.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, to revisit this point : the byzantine generals problem is specifically and exactly mathematically formalised cowardice.
mircea_popescu: this is what cowardice is : the consideration of meta.
mircea_popescu: you see a nail go "don't hit me unless i actually go in the wall" ?
mircea_popescu: fuck you, you're a nail. whether you drive or bend, you're getting hit.
cazalla: au beginning to cut interest rates today
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean after the austrian monarch was deposed ? in a negotiated peace ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform were you thinking 1907 ? i dun see the 1848 angle in any light.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, maybe, but i read demand for au minerals has tanked too
decimation: the problem from the rebel's point of view - does his rebellion tend to empower gentlemen planters, or lenin, danton, and their ilk?
Vexual: no versions, only talk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not grasp how one could see the 1848 revolts as failed.
mircea_popescu: decimation the error is to imagine lenin, dalton and gentlemen planters are some sort of ilk.
mircea_popescu: sure, but a scientific enterprise in no way related to generating seedlists.
decimation: asciilifeform: looks like we are gonna have to invent our own dns :/
mircea_popescu: whosoever wants to run one looks at our list, or if not at whatever list he feels like.
decimation: should the nodes ship with a 'cannon' blockchain?
mircea_popescu: if you buy a coffee grinder it does not work out of the box unless pre-filled with beans ?!
mircea_popescu: the fact that someone has a port open matters about as much as the fact someone scribbled something on github/wikipedia/we
mircea_popescu: there is no burden that i can conceive where one's held to ship with prefilled config files.
mircea_popescu: irrespective of what the consumer may have come to expect.
mircea_popescu: uness you're shipping them to your mother, in which casse, put there w/e you want to put there.
Vexual: most noders will ahve interetz
mircea_popescu: so you expected to get gurls address and ship directly ?
mircea_popescu: the solution is perfectly there. here's the hole. here's a peg you may put in there. or else stick your own cock or a bottle of coke
mircea_popescu: i don't see the letter dns servers perceive any need for putting my fucking ip in their list anywhere.
mircea_popescu: it's lightweight, large and dependable. all the qualities the dns letters don't actually have.
mod6: basically wedged at 168,000: just waiting for it to error out.
mod6: yeah. really weird.
Vexual: ascilifeform: you'll consult satoshi?
decimation: even if we want to start a backbone of little pogos, it won't be easy to keep track of ips
decimation: how many of pay for static ip services?
mircea_popescu: think about it : if it won't be easy to keep track of ips it follows it's no longer a chokepoint.
mircea_popescu: (also bear in mind these aren't really supposed to ever power down)
decimation: perhaps the node can walk jurov's turdatron for specially marked (and signed) emails
mod6: this is strange, last like 5-6 times i got wedged at 168,000 it errored out pretty quickly (like the snippit in the matrix doc), but now, taking a good while...
trinque settles in for a few hours of deedbot hacking
decimation: do nodes query other node's connections?
trinque: maybe when the deturdulation is all said and done, the act of programming against the thing can be improved as well
mod6: still no error?! wth
trinque: select id from transaction_output except select output_id from transaction_input
trinque: magic! the dream of the 70s!
mod6: well, sooner or later this turd is gonna fail
trinque: I look at this api and say "surely there are not this number of core abstractions..."
mod6: i'll put together some log snippits when it does
trinque: rdbms is for modeling problems; best tool there is for that
trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke
trinque: "sorry database, I don't know the data I want by name. You're supposed to tell me that..."
trinque: I think I'll just give deedbot an out to spend and when it's depleted it's done, insert another please
trinque: the problem with that approach is splits
trinque: *the problem with not recalculating all spendable outs each time and then picking one
trinque: which, is one confirmation even enough to deal with that?
trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork?
☟︎ trinque: asciilifeform: rdbms is the surgical one, I hope
trinque: now I understand why some idiot did a "crypto coin in couchdb"
trinque: not like couchdb is any worse than any other of these
trinque: turns out a lot of the code we wrap these kv stores in looks a lot like shitty constraints, shitty transactions, shitty referential integrity, etc
trinque: but that should be reinvented each time because speed
fluffypony: trinque: the worst is when they create a "fast, distributed key-value store" and then a couple of years later they get pressured into adding "fully atomic transactions" which ends up needing consistency, and so that becomes "full ACID support", and then fast-forward a few years and you have them inventing a "SQL-like query language"
fluffypony: and they're two steps away from having re-invented an RDBMS
trinque: fluffypony: yeah, the things ether are useless or are shitty SQS
trinque: and when you're working on something that potentially involves the wealth of goddamn kings...
trinque: lets not invent a database poorly as part of the problem
fluffypony: "but WaffleDB is so much faster than mysql!" - which is a great argument if you're counting pageviews or storing log entries
trinque: heh I like the line from the "mongo is webscale thing"
trinque: about writing to /dev/null because obviously that'd be insanely fast
trinque: the whole document store thing too, that's just looking at the net, accepting it as gospel
trinque: then saying well fuck, since documents are right, obviously, lets do that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 252150 @ 0.000391 = 98.5907 BTC [+] {4}
fluffypony: asciilifeform: "waffle" is my go-to when I talk hypotheticals...WaffleCoin, WaffleOS, WaffleDB
mod6: i guess maybe one other time it ran a long time like this until it ran out of memory and blew its brains out
trinque: fluffypony: there'll be one eventually
trinque: "inventing" a new "database" is just like farting out an altcoin these days
trinque: nevermind the 40 years of research that culminated in modern rdbms
fluffypony: at least when they "invent" a new database they can invent silly architecture without caring about cryptography...the amount of retarded cryptography in the altcoin space is scary
mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there
trinque: fluffypony: when I finally learned lisp it was the same feeling towards every other scripty language
trinque: who in the fuck let these bastards steal fire from the gods, and why wasn't I told about this?
trinque: fluffypony: bilderberg is right
trinque: why don't they just invite the phoundation to the real one
trinque: they can discuss how best to attach bitcoin to the side of a sinking ship
punkman: there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up.
punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?"
punkman: granted, I'm not in drone country and the paranoia feels a couple decades early.
cazalla: i dunno, "goodbye" sounds a bit prophetic, i'd be getting the tinfoil hat and shotty, parachute at the ready
punkman: (actually says "Goodbye", not translated, with a somewhat american accent)
cazalla: mebe telemarkets and auto dialer couldn't find anyone free at the call centre to put you through to
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $40 before Mar 2015"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1096/ Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 26(Y):74(N) by weight. Total bet: 8.65433047 BTC. Current weight: 34,443.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $30 before April"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1112/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.99351 BTC. Current weight: 85,744.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1649 @ 0.0009468 = 1.5613 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 159 @ 0.00637779 = 1.0141 BTC [-]
jurov: uff.. three discarded msgs from btc-dev?
gribble: Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@impr-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net', is not identified.
jurov: nah, querying by key id is bad idea anyway
punkman: jurov, any idea why my msg was dropped?
assbot: 8 results for 'wot database' - #bitcoin-assets search
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3350 @ 0.00094179 = 3.155 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was not able to determine why sig is bad. pls pastebin the original
jurov: punkman: your email client wordwrapped the clearsigned text, i was able to undo it
jurov: everyone PLEASE either wordwrap text before signing, or attach it as file so that email client as no chance to munge it (you can leave empty body then)
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 05:11:42; trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork?
chetty: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :)
punkman: ^ if the block the bundle tx ends up in disappears, I think best idea is to make new tx
punkman: can't even find option to turn it off.
mod6: oh yeah, i stopped it for now. i'll mess with it later tonight.
assbot: RFC 2045 - Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) Part One: Format of Internet Message Bodies ... (
http://bit.ly/1DAS76v )
jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of user interfaces that display these messages which may truncate, or disastrously wrap, the display of more than 78 characters per line" OMFG
jurov: if attached, it will get converted into quoted-printable or such. but few email clients are able to do it with body, too
jurov: imma using the phrase "it got disastrously wrapped" from now on
PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website.
PeterL: good morning coderwill
PeterL: usually "good day" is what you say when you leave, not with hello ;)
coderwill: hehe, I know a few latin americans that might disagree w/ that sentiment.
coderwill: that's an interesting question - I would say yes, but that I debate whether or not that is actually English or a regionalism
coderwill: If you ever read or listen to Alan Watts this topic gets really subjective. :)
PeterL: jorov: if messages get disastrously wrapped, could your program automatically unwrap them?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00038822 = 2.4846 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132800 @ 0.00038242 = 50.7854 BTC [-]
artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections.
PeterL: which language are you writing it in?
jurov: PeterL: asciilifeform's email had about hundred lines. if you make me a code that can unwrap them right in polynomial time...
mircea_popescu: trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke << you don't understand the power ranger power range!
mircea_popescu: berkley db WAS NO GOOD because not modern enough. key value stores not a problem. those are good.
mircea_popescu: trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork? << things can't end up detimestamped in the first place.
mircea_popescu: tx is either in the main chain or in the mempool. the forks/orphans/we are irrelevant.
lobbes: jurov: aha, I had not for some time. I'm digging the new look
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: "but WaffleDB is so much faster than mysql!" - which is a great argument if you're counting pageviews or storing log entries <<< yeah, which is a great argumrent too bad it's irrelevant.
assbot: Postgres Outperforms MongoDB and Ushers in New Developer Reality « The Postgres Blog from EnterpriseDB ... (
http://bit.ly/1AomvD3 )
jurov: "new reality" my ass.
mircea_popescu: ie, the reality produced by the "consensus" of the "community" of "developers" on twitter.
thestringpuller: jurov: yea. that was a really big story when it first came out. A lot of people started migrating of mongodb
thestringpuller: d00d in office used to joke about the mongodb coffee mugs they had given us
thestringpuller: "I'm going to drill holes in the bottom of all the mugs to illustrate a point"
mircea_popescu: mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there << no. look at that shit!
mircea_popescu: people keep derping about uh oh, 7k nodes. BULLSHIT. we're down from 270k to 61.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and whilke this massacre's going on, "uh oh, 20mb blocks, it will work fine"
mircea_popescu: "economic lolexperts in webeconomies have reviewed the fact that they have nfi what's what , what matters and where to look"
mircea_popescu: according to the five year old, the burning house is no immediate cause of concern, he has his teddy.
jurov: yes, clearsigned texts display directly in archive
jurov: ok, lemme see diff
mircea_popescu: what im not halucinating i saw a oh diff similar one ?
jurov: alf, presumably your email client did this:
jurov: < 1.33.197.110:8333 1 1422939389 99.99% 99.40% 99.29% 87.54% 74.50% 341734 00000001 70001 "/Satoshi:0.8.6/"
jurov: > 1.33.197.110:8333 1 1422939389 99.99% 99.40% 99.29% 87.54% 74.50%
jurov: > 341734 00000001 70001 "/Satoshi:0.8.6/"
mircea_popescu: jurov sure but i thought there was some funny story involved
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pieter wuille. one of the more sane people involved.
mircea_popescu: currently doing something on sillycon funds with gmaxwell as a public whore.
mircea_popescu: yes, a supermajority. bluematt did mopst of the post 0.5.3 testing that's not retarded,
mircea_popescu: who with a clue is ever surprised by the facts of any matter in discussion ?
mircea_popescu: but the point is, since some of the brighter young minds on forum have taken to reading the logs, pointing out the plain obvious now and again is god's work
jurov: phoundation's seeds replaced with this_is_lame.txt, distributed
jurov: mircea can do the same to get his email out
mircea_popescu: jurov im reading the logs see why my email died, haven't gotten therer yet but will presently.
mircea_popescu: "All programs have been written, and that program is Lisp. With perfection already attained, implementation is left to the ignorant who do not already know the truth of this." << shit, now i know why i don't code.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: jurov: without so much as a burp. << you knoiw you keep saying this, but it's an email drop. how would you want it to burp ?
mircea_popescu: short of implementing the phantomcircuit hack and emailing everyone who ever emailed it anythging the whole error log every time
mircea_popescu: punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?" << just checking the line's still live.
TomServo: I noticed a fully-synced node maintains its IRC connection. I was curious if that's desirable, and also if that means you're made a candidate to fill other nodes?
jurov: asciilifeform: how do you propose the lint would work? run on saved mailbox?
jurov: in any webmail, you can save the finished message as draft and then try to gpg verify the text. that should take care of 90% of above problems
mircea_popescu: chetty: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << better than darmkail and other bs at any rate.
mircea_popescu: punkman: ^ if the block the bundle tx ends up in disappears, I think best idea is to make new tx << no. there's exactly no reason for deedbot to have block awareness. if the tx disappears, it should not notice.
mircea_popescu: jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of <<< specification made to accomodate the implementation. welcome to the world of braindamage, or where do you think civil engineers that flunked go ? computer science!
mircea_popescu: "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever.
mircea_popescu: PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website. << not substantially different from the "scan the web" notion. more democracy.
mircea_popescu: would you eat a chunk of cheesy-looking substance you found on the sidewalk ?
trinque: punkman: "droned" << heh, I just got a call from a weird number saying they received a package addressed to me
mircea_popescu: why then would you read nobody's opinion in the newspaper or try to digest a random chunk of online nonsense.
mircea_popescu: jurov btw i can guarantee my client did no skullduggery to the email. i have the outgoing saved as sent by the mta.
jurov: mircea_popescu: your pastebin doesn't verify
jurov: show raw, saved it and... bad sig
mircea_popescu: ok my client is doing some unspecified mangling somewhere wtf.
mircea_popescu: jurov resent, with signed material attached as file. still nothing there apparently.
mircea_popescu: artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections. << sounds pretty good.
mircea_popescu: funny how things change. "PaulGraham's evil twin." ? rly ?
mircea_popescu: you know ? i'm all ready to go back to bang paths over here.
TomServo: he railed against using period << ?!
mircea_popescu: just as long as i get back the control, i see no problem with !derp!herp!router!alf
TomServo: "Whoever decided to use the semicolon to end something should just be taken out and have his colon semified. (At least COBOL and SQL managed to use a period.)" heh
mircea_popescu: TomServo i dunno why he's so strung up on it ; semicolon is perfectly fine way to end things ; it also happens to be the traditional english ending of "separable entities that are for ulterior reasons strung together".
TomServo: Came across that looking for a tirade against the period - asciilifeform any help?
the_scourge: need to put a warning about needing a cloak in this chan :)
the_scourge: um... recently? as in the last 5 hours? :)
the_scourge: i JUST got ddos'd once last night and twice earlier today
the_scourge: and it was one of the more impressive ones i've ever seen, and i used to see top quality ones on a daily basis
the_scourge: asciilifeform: it totally saturated at least 2 full gigabit fibre terminii
the_scourge: but what's most interesting is the shape of the traffic and the packets... i was plugged into a sub-campus and it would appear that it was using dynamic discovery protocol over
http for amplification (using any device that supports it)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73600 @ 0.0003716 = 27.3498 BTC [-]
the_scourge: yes it was ssdp, i couldn't remember (brain fart and i'm home chilling)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: the network guys at $my_client are actually top-notch
the_scourge: they brought a wireshark dump over to my desk
the_scourge: this is a paying client. even though everything pointed to me being targeted, i still didn't want to make more noise than i already had
the_scourge: and sadly i was on a VERY VERY VERY large very flat network with more class A IPs than ... almost any other entity on the planet. and lots of buggy ssdp routers all over the place 'cause of the (phys) architecture
jurov: mircea_popescu: the email is out, after a bugfix (to account for application/pgp mimetype properly)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yah we ended up having to use another contractor's LTE just to try to google some of the fingerprints
the_scourge needs to get LTE of some kind but is a bit of a nutter about that kinda shit
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news, i dreamed up a new licensing model which teh foundation and us generally might wish to consdier.
the_scourge: also, north america sometimes. but right now i just need a UK dongle that has chinese backdoors instead of american
the_scourge: do the russians make LTE hotspots? they've started making smartphones with e-ink, but it's a shame i didn't hear about it until after i went off of smartphones entirely
assbot: the_scourge is not registered in WoT.
the_scourge: oh wait, i've only set up my gpg key, do i need to associate a bitcoin address as well?
the_scourge: 16:45 <gribble> You are now authenticated for user the_scourge with key 300A9F6A3D0564B4
PeterL: aha, needs to be assbot
the_scourge: the docs made it seem like assbot used the otc WOT
chetty: That’s right — 77 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds in the new survey could not name even one US senator in their home state
chetty: more than nine in 10 of the 18- to 34-year-olds plan to vote in the 2016
trinque: how hard is it to pick a favorite color out of two?
chetty: well it has rather ceased to matter, get screwed by the red or by the blue, who cares
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it's not in the signed body where did you get it from ?
jurov: it should show body
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no message body cause when i put it in the body it got mangled to hell
mircea_popescu: anyway, explain to me like i'm slow, there's a problem with the thing as presented ?
mircea_popescu: you get a hash of the file and an explanation of purpose in the signed attachment, seems reasonable ?
jurov: mircea_popescu: it is supposed to show directly the clearsigned text that was used to validate the message
jurov: regardless of any other attachemnts
mircea_popescu: jurov can convention be that if body is empty 1st attachment = body ?
jurov: yes, that's what i'm doing. it just insists that application/pgp is not text
mircea_popescu: well it is not text, technically, because you can also send it as binary.
mircea_popescu: should i force clearsigned material be saved as .txt ?
jurov: wait, you can clearsign in binary?
mircea_popescu: nope. but i could have, and the file'd have been .asc too
jurov: yes, saving it as txt would help. but best to fix it for once.
the_scourge: will assbot search long keyids on keys.gnupg.net?
mircea_popescu: it's not me trying to build a parallel, closed universe.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: who was asserting that there were nodes < v0.8
the_scourge: why would they select such a node? surely no reason other than "this operator is keeping up to date" would need to be given
the_scourge: i'm being a mong with this !register command
the_scourge: i've given it my long key id... it says invalid (so quickly i have a hard time believing it even did a search)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1637 @ 0.00096996 = 1.5878 BTC [+] {2}
the_scourge: idk man i appreciate your sleuthing and keep it up but holding the btc foundation's feet to the fire will NEVER work
the_scourge: like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago
the_scourge: well i take it your goal is to prevent nefarious hijacking of bitcoind, done in such a way that everyone upgrades and long after it is realized that the network is resultingly compromised?
the_scourge: which, the seed nodes would be a good vector for such a thing
the_scourge: ok, but public opinion will determine who uses what version/implementation of bitcoind, and a seed node can be packaged with said distribution
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes mod6 ^ does that sound like something teh foundation might support ?
the_scourge: is the experiment discussed in last night's logs?
mircea_popescu: <the_scourge> like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago << public opinion only matters in fiat backed worlds.
mircea_popescu: in gold backed words, that game wasn't lost, nor was it ever played.
the_scourge: right so you're saying nefarious things are being attempted but the attempts are hopeless even within the main branch of blockchain
mircea_popescu: part of why we're here is exactly that : making paper money impossible -> making the welfare governments impossible -> making the "public oppiunion" impossible -> undo the numerous errors of the 20th century.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: right, i was talking about the world at large. you can stick a fork in journalistic integrity, it's done
the_scourge: er, maybe i blame the mob more than their journalists... whatever
mircea_popescu: you can also stick a fork in "representative democracy" equally done.
the_scourge: 20th century? a bit myopic? otherwise i agree
mircea_popescu: jurov o splendid, i got a mod notice and everything. i like how this works.
the_scourge: wanting to undo the new deal and sufferage etc only makes you a slightly redder republican, or a backbencher tory
mircea_popescu: im neither. i'm a fucking guelph. that's a white flag you see behind, and the battle is for imperial immediacy not bs.
the_scourge: ok, so other than the microscope paper (which is a bit high-level) what exactly can/should/could be done with bitcoin itself? why not just skip to working on the other stuff and let the existing bitcoin maintainers work out their shit. there are plenty of people who oppose the foundation already
the_scourge: imperial immediacy ... gonna have to look that one up :)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: comms, hardware, 'corporate' governance, sovereignty techology
the_scourge: admittedly, that last one consists of 'shit that already exists' - small unit tactics. but a lot of it is high-tech and needs work
chetty: when did Erik Voorhees get to be a 'VC' ?
mircea_popescu: name should be based on the actual world not on the current
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the notion that anyone works on bitcoin or in any manner relevant to bitcoin outside of this channel is laughable on its face.
the_scourge: cool, can you clarify? i like prose so feel free to link
chetty: well last I heard he was a convict, so I guess we know who is greasing his palm
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: can you elaborate on your assertion? i don't like making assumptions
chetty: riiight, and I am sure he will now be a good boy
the_scourge: ok well define 'bitcoin' then in the context... like it or not LOTS of people are working on lots of implementations which lots of people are using/will use
the_scourge: so if we're talking about the main fork of the chain, then... idk you have to ellaborate
mircea_popescu: define bitcoin ?! any and all blockchain based, mining enforced, elecrtronic currencies.
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1IGVwSi )
mircea_popescu: the generals are that you can have only one monetized good
mircea_popescu: all the others are derivatives of its monetization, they can't have their own.
the_scourge: i read that article, it seemed to be saying that smaller POW protocols would always be subject to hardness attacks
mircea_popescu: more generally, that nothing other than bitcoin can really exist
mircea_popescu: or whatever, five centuries of macroeconomics discussions.
mircea_popescu: sorta like redditard'd go "see collected manga works" or w/e.
the_scourge: right, but for the issue at present: POW will always be vulnerable to hardness attacks, because there are bad?unlikeable?big? people in the world who can do a lot of work and ruin the fun for everyone, even if we ignore their fork of the chain. btc got very lucky in that it slipped under the radar, but that will never happen again in history. the wardens have been alerted
mircea_popescu: bitcoin stable state is where > 50% of all energy generated on planet earth goes to mininmg.
mircea_popescu: the wardens are dead. the invisible hand however... myeah.
mircea_popescu: you can always derive a profit by attacking unmonetized goods, or rather ; by exploiting the false claim of anyone putting forth an unmonetized good as money.
mircea_popescu: as soros proved for the benefit of the bank of england.
mircea_popescu: which is why i don't particularly mind gavin trying to create a scamcoin, nor whatever "public oppinion" support he may muster.
assbot: the_scourge is not registered in WoT.
kakobrekla: err, there is no session to be 'logged in'
assbot: You must be rated before you can rate.
trinque: m-my blockchain... 'tis to the 18th of the present month!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 200 @ 0.0056089 = 1.1218 BTC [-] {9}
the_scourge: grrr it was UX issues ... tmux buffers + whitespace.... more excuses, more excuses
kakobrekla: asciilifeform each auth-worthy command gets otp
trinque: mircea_popescu: having read logs it seems like everything I was worrying about regarding timestamp-transactions is moot
assbot: You must be rated before you can rate.
the_scourge: er apparently having a 1 isn't good enough to give it away
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently
trinque: ben_vulpes and I were talking about blockchain forks when last we hacked it up, but I guess that does not mean transactions will have to be retransmitted?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1906 @ 0.00096996 = 1.8487 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: so will raising VC capital soon be viewed as a negative sign for a company
trinque: mircea_popescu: this blockchain is for deedbot
thestringpuller: well sometimes it seems "blah raised x money" and you're like "why do they need that money so badly? Are they having trouble staying alive?"
trinque: I thought I was going to have to re-chew the blockchain up from first funding each time to see whether "new shit had come to light"
the_scourge: uh, i verified but assbot didn't announce it in here...
the_scourge: is it ok to verify in channel or is that too chatty
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: there is too much serial raising of funds. like its a mental illness or something.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you ever read that crooked timber tyhing about the bezzle was in log yest ?
trinque: thestringpuller: its like a fractured version of central economic planning
mircea_popescu: trinque quite exactly. accidental central planning and laika is alone in the control center.
trinque: was talking with someone the other day about how the american system of govt is a shattered sovereign
trinque: I hadn't ever thought about it in those terms before
the_scourge: for a bunch of scottish guys to buy their porridge with... really?
trinque: asciilifeform: interesting; is he worth reading?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is this similar to female who rents out womb for having babies for infertile couples?
the_scourge: i've just finish reading all of his non-bitcoin and non-economics posts (those are two things he ... isn't that brilliant with)
the_scourge: thestringpuller: also, probably best to avoid parallel womb renting
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: well what do you want to know
mircea_popescu: the suspicion being that perceived brilliance in other fields may be more the newspaper memory hole than his own merit.
mircea_popescu: the_scourge what do you do for a living, and what sort of education do you have basically.
the_scourge: erm well i work for myself doing ... what is interesting/profitable. was market data kernel tuning, then perl coding, now more 'devops' stuff
adlai: "market data kernel tuning"?
adlai: kernel as in trick?
the_scourge: in another life it was all systems programming etc but then i decided to go to the UK and join the Royal Marines... really really long story
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: leprous beggar sounds more like undead beggar in your instance then.
adlai doesn't see the connection between "linux kernel" and "market data", but if that's interesting/profitable, glhf
the_scourge: and for education... fuck that seems like a long time ago but among other things i did a masters in ancient philosophy, languages and regilion. studied greek and aramaic and history as well
the_scourge: to be honest i just did the studies to get away from computers for a few hours a day.... also to answer the big questions in life
the_scourge: adlai: oh, i should have said there was custom hardware involved. and 48 core bulldozer CPUs (bad decision, but made before i arrived)
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.the_scourge.1:33e0ab5465f7642a6e1ae13ba6bbb73a29cd777a865ced5b2dfb9dd7a56197ab
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: легальные резиденты
the_scourge: um what's the best way for me to find out what that says
the_scourge: right so translation helped. and i knew there was a reason i still keep a urxvt instance running, even though it's horribly bloated
the_scourge: adlai: to be honest my time doing the market data, i was more focused on getting an inside education on the more... interesting things in the financial markets, than stacking my CV with kernel/ASIC achievements. and in that regards i came out quite well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120650 @ 0.00038193 = 46.0799 BTC [+] {2}
the_scourge: have avoided certain markets ever since :)
mircea_popescu: aww coin telegraph goiung teh way of what was the one they kept pushing, that was supposedly big ? also coin something
ben_vulpes: <punkman> [] there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up. << calling to find people who pick up
ben_vulpes: <chetty> [] email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << gnus, part of emacs, has worked for probably longer than i've been alove
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: in your soros example, what is the unmonetized commodity? surely not the gold
the_scourge: sorry, i was going to ask earlier but... shit happened
the_scourge: the pound gets 2/3 qualities, close but no cigar
mircea_popescu: at the time the pound was on the receiving end of german rape.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] why are we calling him alf again ? << Ascii Life Form?
the_scourge: i was thinking about this the other day ... some smart people say that if there is not secondary use (no matter how minor, compared to the total volume) then something cannot be monetized
the_scourge: and... that assertion is true until proven false
the_scourge: nothing has ever been monetized successfully that couldn't be turned into swords or necklaces or circuitboards or compressors (or eaten but i'm going back a ways now)
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: they're not monetizable (paper dollars) - just like the pound
the_scourge: nothing holds their value other than the force of the issuer's military. i served in one of them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a word in your ear about "cowrie shells" : it is possible they were ever used for money. it is also possible libertard anthropologists created the pious fraud of "retarded non-white peoples also have some semblance of intelligence".
the_scourge: because they're brainwashed into supporting a certain nation (the issuer)
the_scourge: there is a lot you can learn about finance by signing up to be a uniformed tough guy for one of the big two, with your head already fully unplugged
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that merely the fact of exchanging "Shiny" for "cunt" might well be reported as "monetary shiny" by some people and 'loads of fun whee' by some others.
the_scourge: from personal experience, it's so fucking annoying though the best of us could only last a short while on the inside
mircea_popescu: they did, kinda. cowries played the role in africa that opium played in china
mircea_popescu: ie, earlier european governments understood the problems of unbalanced trade, and invented balancers.
mircea_popescu: but weren't stupid enough to accept the balancers as their own currency.
the_scourge: unless someone can remind me what the point of the original shells comment was, we drop it :) ?
the_scourge: the reich is interesting... oil was a big issue for them
the_scourge: yah, i would hope putin has his historians working overtime right now
the_scourge: oh yah apparently mats is predisposed right now i tried pinging him a while ago
the_scourge: adlai: i'm one of those damn tea drinkers. well actually i'm not but w/e
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: will respond on seeds and licenses later
adlai still hasn't gotten paid for his reserve duty, but doing this requires physical presence at various government bureaus that keep excessively sane hours
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] 'vulture capital' << i'm surprised you're not making the easy poo joke here too
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yes, yes they can. hitler couldn't because his guys were getting beaten by our guys
the_scourge: you can monetize ANYTHING with enough mind control and military. post bretton woods, that's all we've been doing!!!
adlai: the_scourge: what did you serve in?
the_scourge: adlai: reserve? were you in at some point?
adlai: "various corners of usa vassal empire" = IDF, in my case
the_scourge: asciilifeform: right, that's probably a stretch too far from reality. but USG and HMT and BoE have been doing the fiat thing for a while now, and that's just one step less crazy
adlai: so yes, three years, full time, and reserve duty for the extent of my healthy adult life (unless/til i move out of the country)
mircea_popescu: hard times in the international diabetes federation :D
the_scourge: oh cool i was going to join the IDF but they said i was too old
adlai: the_scourge: now that mp gave you legal residency, you should be able to !up yourself in PM with assbot, and that lasts as long as you're connected to the channel
the_scourge: which was retarded i was working on a kibbutz as a lifeguard and i was tearing up guys on their weekends on runs/workouts
nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> <mircea_popescu> [] why are we calling him alf again ? << Ascii Life Form? <<< nod, gw
adlai: expecting anything short of retardation from a bureaucracy the size of the idf is hopeful at best
the_scourge: adlai: what unit were you in? you can reply in hebrew, no worries
adlai: very, very, very americanized
adlai: more bomblets! more rockets! firing faster! from a bigger vehicle! with better treads! etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in their defense, they can actually use it
the_scourge: adlai: i don't even know what unit that is
the_scourge: i was interested in shesh shesh tesha at the time :D
adlai: oh to be so young and patriotic again!
adlai: mlrs is just a regular battalion in the army, but it used to be a special unit like that one... so there was this massive cognitive dissonance, where the higher up the officer, the more elite they thought their unit was
adlai: but the soldiers themselves were just your average shmuck
the_scourge: or shayetet13 - i wasn't young or patriotic ... and i wasn't when i got a good slot in the british military. i was having the same thoughts as moldbug, but instead of blogging about it i decided to become as deadly as possible in as short amount of time as possible
the_scourge: and actually it was about a year before he started blogging
adlai: not having actually been in such units, i'm speaking from impressions of people who were - but it seems as though the army trains people to be useful to the army, and any personal benefit that people got out of these units was mainly due to their own efforts to better themselves
the_scourge: adlai: 1. i tried very hard before, during and after to get as much tactical benefit as possible. 2. you're right, and in retrospect i could have done equally well by making shedloads of money and shooting a lot, training a lot, hiring and doing private training
the_scourge: but that's REALLY fucking expensive and at the time the income streams were trickling a little
adlai: heh well some kinds of training, you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them
adlai: dunno which legends you've heard about what they do to 'break' people in elite units
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00094379 = 2.3595 BTC [-] {11}
the_scourge: adlai: for those things, if you can make yourself do them, then you're better off than if batshit insane men force you to do it, under threat of bodily damage
the_scourge: but again, before, i didn't even know what those things were. it's more than just crawling through broken glass for miles. there are a lot of subtle nuances
mircea_popescu: <adlai> you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them << not if you're a woman, wink wink
the_scourge: it's interesting how the israeli culture generally knows about some of these nuances. the bootneck culture lives and breathes them and i don't think i could have bought that for any price
the_scourge: it's the ability to keep your dignity no matter what.
adlai isn't sure 'dignity' is what's at stake
adlai: asciilifeform: i've heard stories ranging from having your nose broken, to being strung up like a pig over an open fire, to having your 'captors' alternate between putting your gun barrel up your ass and in your mouth - all of this to get you to 'break' and reveal a secret
the_scourge: so, they do things like, you spend 2 weeks on an excercise, march 12 miles into the 'theatre' with 65lbs on your back, dig holes in the ground all night, and then lie in them (saltwater) and defend them, and then do full dignified kit inspection, ready to do a multi-unit ambush/assult all night
adlai: the_scourge is describing approved exercises. i'm describing legends about what happens in elite units outside the approval and regulation of the main army bodies.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: had to travel << Land on one side of the country ride to the other on occasion even.
the_scourge: adlai: right, for SERE training, it gets a little weird
adlai: as far as approved exercises go, the worst i had was a week spent with a single day's food ration, most of which was spent in full NBC gear
PeterL: mircea_popescu: "You do not have, nor you can ever acquire the right to use, copy or distribute this software" << should be "nor can you ever"
☟︎ the_scourge: erm yah what bootnecks do it public knowledge i mean bear grylls does videos about the weird stuff
adlai joined the army right after a major push for increased transparency in the ritualized torture of new recruits, so the crazy stuff only happens in crazy units these days
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i was trying to get to the nuances. not the shocking shit
the_scourge: asciilifeform: and i'm doing a bad job of it, to be honest i've never been asked and i've never tried externalizing it
adlai: asciilifeform: mothers.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: tormenting nods - not the shocking stuff
the_scourge: asciilifeform: such 'training' is orthoganal to tactical success
trinque: the_scourge: but directly aligned with being enslaved eh?
adlai: this still happens occasionally, but whenever it's in a regular (non-elite, anybody-can-join-and-who-asked-you-anyways) unit, these days, the unit gets disbanded, officers decomissioned, etc
the_scourge: trinque: not sure if it's a mechanism or a byproduct ;)
adlai: well and if you want to prepare your men to die in battle, they better die in training first, no?
trinque: the_scourge: seems the enslavement of soldiers has to do with the necessity of keeping them loyal/taking orders
mircea_popescu: not nearly as orthogonal as all that, for that matter.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: this is true of many places. i was lucky in that i was in a place where they glorified individual thinking, as much as possible
trinque: or... why would so many listen to so few were they not slaves?
nubbins`: asciilifeform so how 'bout running a node on the NEW raspi ;p
the_scourge: trinque: you are (generally) correct, i was just saying in the russian army, i think some of the weird shit was a result of the slavery
trinque: nubbins`: put a quarter in the swear jar
adlai: drill sergeants on individual thinking: "if there's any doubt, there is no doubt", which eventually became "if you started thinking, stop"
nubbins`: duod you could compile it for win10.
adlai needs to get out of emacs someday
nubbins`: now sure if it's "here" or "coming"
the_scourge: trinque: for an example of what i mean, watch the russian throat slitting vidoes... not tactically strong
nubbins`: imagine someone using windows on an embedded device
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: because 9 wasn't good enough!
trinque: having been late to every party in the last decade, msft will now reinvent itself by being late to free!
nubbins`: asciilifeform no big surprise there
mircea_popescu: trinque the thing is tho, by now "free" is wholly captured.
trinque: the_scourge: I think it's a bit of a problem to expect anything other than barbarism from those trained to execute it at industrial scale
nubbins`: i have a handheld gps unit that runs wince
the_scourge: asciilifeform: what's your take on the linuxino boards?
nubbins`: it's so shitty you actually have to remove the hyphen
the_scourge: other than the chipset, pretty good architecture though?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: wait, what? what are we making requirements for?
the_scourge: standalone or like that coffeewarmer thing?
the_scourge: woah *wanders off to find a wiki somewhere
adlai: using !s to extend your memory of others' words, sure. extend your memory of others' actions, sure. ... but of your own actions!?
the_scourge: yah i was going to buy a pogo for nas work at home. but then i spent $way_too_much_fiat and built a xeon one instead
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: more like a traffic violation (with bigger numbers) than a criminal matter << Basically this is my read of the Erik situation. Govt settled because all they could get was the headline and token cash.
adlai finds himself wishing for !s in irl conversations now
the_scourge: ok i'm looking on that site for a wiki... where can i find out > why nodes, and not miners?
adlai: it's gotten me grepping a lot more though, which is good
nubbins`: the_scourge because mining at the personal level is retarded, but running a node is not.
mircea_popescu: adlai the same process ruined me for books. i'm like "fucking paper no grep"
the_scourge: what's the benefit to running a node? having the whole blockchain?
nubbins`: the_scourge among other things, yes
mircea_popescu: the_scourge generally the advice given to noobs is to read the logs for six months to a year.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: greppable?? in what format?
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs
adlai: my book-buying process (when i'm in an actual bookstore and can flip through the book) is made or broken by the quality of the index
nubbins`: incidentally, that scene is why i stopped watching Saw movies
the_scourge: i'm a bit more interested in asciilifeform's book buying process right now
mircea_popescu: adlai still. even people with good indedices, what are they going to put in there ? can't make it half the book.
the_scourge: last time i was involved, people had the same concerns, but on the miner side of things
adlai: mircea_popescu: right, it's more that i'll find some really interesting book, get all excited about reading it, and then change my mind when i see a three page index
adlai: the only good thing i have to say about scheme is that it's abstruse enough that sometimes college students pay me to write it for them :)
mircea_popescu: complex specs are in no sense better. the only thing a very complicated spec shows is that the designer did not understand the overwhelming importance of not specifying.
mircea_popescu: that's the main task of spec work : avoiding doing anything as much as humanly possible.
the_scourge: adlai: 'college students' < doesn't tell us anything
adlai: the_scourge: "people who work a part-time job so they can fund another person's part-time job doing their homework"
mircea_popescu: that's how you end up with small programs that do clear things and without a userbase that "has come to expect"
mircea_popescu: i defy you to find a spec anywhere in use in the shitstack today that manages to not include things it really has no business specifying.
mircea_popescu: and the problem is even more visible in dictionaries (as definitions are simply the specifications of words). never is it the case a dictionary manages to not include extraneous nonsense in the soup
mircea_popescu: "a book containing the words of a language alphabetically arranged, with their meanings etc"
mircea_popescu: leaving aside that there's no etc allowed ; A BOOK ? why the fuck is it a book.
mircea_popescu: it's not a book, it's a list. and it doesn't have to be alphabetically sorted.
mircea_popescu: dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations."
mircea_popescu: there's not even any need to specify it actually contains definitions. the quality of the definitions distinguishes a good implementation from a bad one and that's all.
mircea_popescu: i see little in there other than "agend desperate to create personal raport as attempts to control teh public venue aren't working for ununderstood reasons that look scary."
the_scourge: i wish i had saved my credit for you asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: earnest effort never killed anyone. except of course in soviet russia.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: true but we all bring different things to the table, i could write a book on NRx history, philosophy etc: that is proof of hard work done
nubbins`: we all don't bring something to the table
the_scourge: which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical
the_scourge: does assbot have a glossary? for things like usagitalk?
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations." <<< why does it have to be exhaustive?
trinque: asciilifeform: this student appreciates the pasted lesson
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the only thing that makes you go "this isn't a fucking dictionary" is if you look for a word that should be in but isnt
nubbins`: by that measure, i've got 3,000-page beasts that are not dictionaries
mircea_popescu: note that they usually explain their limitations. "A dictionary of 1900 London argot" won't contain nixonisms
nubbins`: and a page from a word-a-day calendar with the word "grok" defined, that occasionaly *is* a dictionary
adlai: my dad has not one but TWO dictionaries that require a magnifying glass to read the copy
mircea_popescu: however, the absence of "chthulhu" from there will be regarded as prima facie proof that the word in question was in fact not 1900s london argot.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: jargon studies? i did read the jargon file front to back if that's what you mean. long long time ago though
nubbins`: ;;google dictionary of newfoundland english
mircea_popescu: and now im off to trilemize the dictionary/spec discussion, if anyone wants to be in ask now.
assbot: Search the #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: mp quote me saying some people don't bring shit to the table
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nubbins`: try to incorporate the word "sleeveen" into the article as well
nubbins`: it's in the dictionary of newfoundland english
punkman: asciilifeform: satoshi's miner is valuable for the same reasonas the rest of that piece of shit << is it valuable? I thought the goal was to replace satoshi's hairballs.
nubbins`: and generally when one is called a sleeveen, one does not know how to take the insult, due to being wholly unfamiliar with its definition and usage
nubbins`: ive seen members of parliament call each others sleeveens with impunity because the speaker of the house didn't know wtf it meant.
punkman: asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo?
kakobrekla: punkman alfs argument is coins were worthless hence lesser chance of molestation
punkman: well that's what we want to do, mutilate the hell out of it. just in different direction.
kakobrekla: seems more like purification instead of mutilation
punkman: as for moving satoshi cpuminer to different binary, it's gonna need to use the "getwork" avenue, so I'm guessing that'd be a significant rewrite
kakobrekla: have it built in, but optionally as separate patch?
punkman: you know what'd be great? some sort of "bitcoind c++" reading guide.
kakobrekla is unaware of how badly scattered the mining code is
punkman: asciilifeform: yeah separate file seems like a good idea
mircea_popescu: <punkman> asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo? << because it's actually before the "bitcoin is important" point of no return.
punkman: there is that whole "may contain traces of pig cocks" thing, but meh
nubbins`: "The U.S. National Library of Medicine said that spirulina was no better than milk or meat as a protein source, and was approximately 30 times more expensive per gram."
nubbins`: spirulina seems to be straight-up bacteria
mircea_popescu: The algae has actually been tested and successfully grown in human urine at 1:180 parts. After 7days, 97% of NH4+-N, 96.5% of total phosphorus (TP) and 85–98% of urea in the urine (ca. 120-diluted) were removed by the microalgae under autotrophic culture (30 °C).
mircea_popescu: this is just a conspiracy to drink more piss, isn't it.
nubbins`: altho apparently this is a misnomer, as it's actually prokaryotic
nubbins`: we're reaching dangerous levels of fake bio knowledge
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2187 @ 0.000944 = 2.0645 BTC [-] {12}
mircea_popescu: lecherous if impotent old men have a comparable preoccupation with "the unfucked"
the_scourge: spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D
the_scourge: as for it being more expensive... what a retarded thing to say. even for USG
adlai: unchurched, noun: a computer which does not use church numerals
the_scourge: it's part of a jargon from a very different community
the_scourge: Who is Irdial? good argumentation style he has
the_scourge: except for the end. kinda gets distracted by shiny misdirection :)
BingoBoingo: <the_scourge> spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Must go in mouth. Even raw I digest fine.
BingoBoingo: <the_scourge> spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Also even though "complete" spirulina in low in some more important amino acids
the_scourge: BingoBoingo: second point, valid. however, getting the meat in your mouth is 1/10th the battle
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BingoBoingo: How hard is carve animal, insert pieces in mouth?
the_scourge: basically spirulina, the advantage is you have to break down one cellular wall and you have mitochondria, meat is a MUCH harder process
BingoBoingo: Digestive effort is easy. Small intestine gets pumped full of all the right enzymes to process animal protein
the_scourge: and hey i'm of the "catch and eat it raw" line of thought as well, it's just that from a scientific look, spirulina does require a lot less investment
BingoBoingo: Mitochondria is not everything. with steak you pop cellular membrane and start tearing a part long chains of proteins
the_scourge: when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain
the_scourge: i'm not disagreeing with you. i eat lots of meat. when i lived in a freer countries, i shot most of what i ate. you're preaching to the choir here but there are huge benefits to some of the more accessible forms of protein
BingoBoingo: the_scourge> when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain << More likely shrunk as meat became nutrient fire or not. Most carnivores have short GI tracts because meat digest faster than comlex plant matter. Cell walls are a bitch to break.
the_scourge: BingoBoingo: yes, moving to meat was a benefit in itself
the_scourge: thestringpuller: get on topic. if you like biochemistry, tell me what is the cost of breaking spirulina cellular walls. now :)
thestringpuller: it's not about energy exerted in that case it's about the cost to build the proteins/enzymes to break them down :P
thestringpuller: mitochondria are the shit cause they make ATP so efficiently
the_scourge: ever heard about babies who don't have good mitochonria during antenatal development? not good
thestringpuller: i was talking about evolutionary. the selection process of how they end up in cells
the_scourge: which is why we're going to get 3-parent babies soon. which is bullshit it's just a mother, father + a different woman's mitochondira
ben_vulpes: <the_scourge> mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs << some lol. the point is that you've gotta pick up the variety speak, and that comes from reading logs in near-real-time for six months, not "some" or "a few" or "the ones i found interesting and/or easy"
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: ah thanks that makes sense. lurking is necessary anywhere you go. i thought he meant dead logs
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: if you do it right, you'll find yourself searching through the dead logs for further context.
the_scourge: also in the news, ward migrated his wiki to fedwiki
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: not only fedwiki, but it's also got all sorts of css and javascript
ben_vulpes: seen it all, still works in the trenches
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: if you know an implimentation of fedwiki that doesn't have js, let me know
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: i don't fuck with any of that stuff.
ben_vulpes: collaborating with randos is for the birds.
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: i've been in on his weekly hangouts a few times, very very cool times
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: dude i was working on it when i still believed in randos. a long time ago
ben_vulpes: i infrequently find myself drinking in his proximity. mostly f(how often i'm at new relic)
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: plus, the technology could probably be adapted for closed communities
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: what's youre connection to newrelic?
mircea_popescu: diff between c2 and fedwiki is that well... fedwiki dun work.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: they have an office nearby at which i drink occasionally
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: It's true. Mitochondria have their own different DNA from their hosts and their hosts use them as a dependency
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: i like the branch and fork model. and we do need a non-code collaboration toolset built around that model. and we know that model works for closed communities, dictatorships and everything else
ben_vulpes: <the_scourge> which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical << bwahahahat?
thestringpuller: different cellular structures animated realistically, but colorized for distinction
lobbes: I leave to code for an hour and the conversation has moved from grepping, to dictionary specs, to biochemistry. Several of the reasons I love this channel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 193996 @ 0.00038159 = 74.0269 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19154 @ 0.00038415 = 7.358 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 07-12-2013 16:09:18; dexX7: looks they are serious with "50 new listings in one year"
gribble: dexx7 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 33 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 5 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <dexX7> i think i can up myself
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: what did you find funny about my PoRealWork comment?
BingoBoingo: So... Ulbricht trial is already done with closing statements...
BingoBoingo: Hard to say. Instructions delivered tomorrow. Today was also first day of defense testimony...
mircea_popescu: well if it were easy to say it wouldn't make much of a bet.
BingoBoingo: I'd consider putting 0.5 BTC on under 3 hours. Worried about holdout juror or jurors.
thestringpuller: lol "The jurors are instructed not to look at bitbet" - says the Judge.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'll take that with 1 BTC for under six hours.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you can even blatantly abuse your journalistic position to make moar comedy gold.
thestringpuller: they try to, hence what I said about judge in future may instruct juries to stay away from bitbet
mircea_popescu: specifically : if you bought 1k btc at $10, and you die when it's $1000, usg wants about 400`000, in usd.
mircea_popescu: then, should your inheritor sell it when it's $10`000, usg wants further capital gains tax. not on 9k, but on $9990
mircea_popescu: anything to prevent that ol' capital acumulation thing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, best gift for bitcoin he could have ever made.
mircea_popescu: i can scarcely comprehend why anyone would leave his heirs anything but btc.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: submitted, funding tx sent
BingoBoingo hopes his Austrialian Open bad luck streak ends
thestringpuller: Don't you get sent to jail in the US if you don't pay taxes for X amount of time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform personally, i dun knowmuch an' i dun care much.
mircea_popescu: since i'm not in the pizzeria business... fuckall i care.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: the price of US passport is paying income tax wherever you live.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: always portraying the state as the retarded mafia
cazalla: how long until tax man comes to you and says, i'm a reasonable guy, i'll accept payment for your taxes in bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: does he have like a gpg signed thing from ben_vulpes or something ?
cazalla: i'm not implying he would have the authority, just when taxman might begin to believe he does
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i thought they'd flag your passport if you get IRS audited and charged for evasion? (though I guess this is more a dice roll if it occurs to an individual)
mircea_popescu: cazalla im sure it'll be something like "bitpay paid 500k usd to franchise owner" thing
thestringpuller: chetty was saying she was still paying US taxes (or maybe I recally incorrectly)
gribble: Time since last block: 17 minutes and 16 seconds
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yo, if this bet stays open until the fucking 6th, and it ends at 100k...
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have no idea for a better spec.
danielpbarron: thestringpuller> US passport: Tax Curse, -10 from wealth << why i can't attend conference
mircea_popescu: o look at that, the tax break for repatriating corp profits? aolso gone.
mircea_popescu: i guess butthurt at it not having worked at all because well... nobody wants their money inside the beast.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1115/ Odds: 0(Y):100(N) by coin, 0(Y):100(N) by weight. Total bet: 1 BTC. Current weight: 100,000.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Russian Index RTS to drop under 500 before March 2015"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1109/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 35(Y):65(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.0574767 BTC. Current weight: 51,537.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to top $1500 before 16 May"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1106/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.3 BTC. Current weight: 82,128.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1108/ Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.47696636 BTC. Current weight: 71,999.
mircea_popescu: respectively "please direct any inquiries to the central bank of china / putin / etc"
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> does he have like a gpg signed thing from ben_vulpes or something ? << pardon?
ben_vulpes: one of those zero, one, infinity things.
ben_vulpes: if enforcement's impossible...don't enforce.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1115/ Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 100,000.
hanbot: good to know in case taxman shows up claiming otherwise :D
ben_vulpes wonders if this ddosser can be coerced into attacking arbitrary people in arbitrary channels
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: poverty looks good on me.
hanbot: was a funny case of that in romania. prime minister, very corrupt, "from my auntie!"
pete_dushenski: found on floor with name on it, hey ppl win the lottery all the time!
trinque: better to just give unto bezzledom what is bezzle
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: 'american does not believe the man in the uniform to be a bandit, with whom one can come to an understanding. he believes him to be a robot, who must be feared. american law enforcers are able to, by pressing on the keyboard of a multitude of laws and regulations, 'transmute' the most insignificant peccadillo into a monstrous deed. FBI did not need to beat up Monica or toss into her purse heroin or am
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: The giving of false testimony - a crime, seen in Russia as small change - in the U.S. can lead to 26 years of prison. The fact that, in essence, the matter concerned a young girl who did not wish to admit her love affair with a married man, interests no one in the U.S. The principle of the machine is: do it [the crime] - receive. [consequences] the machine is merciless and incorruptible.'
pete_dushenski: @nntaleb: In 80s terrorists captured 4 Russians in Beirut.Russians kidnapped 10 relatives of terrorists, sent body parts.Nobody since messed wRussians
pete_dushenski: usa locks up girls, refuses to "negotiate with terrorists"
pete_dushenski: more digestible when the claim is geographically isolated
trinque: asciilifeform: right, I assume they can and will warp reality to suit them as needed
trinque: this brings to mind again my (hardly novel) thought that the usg is a shattered sovereign, rather than the absence of one
trinque: in that the ruler clearly always has the power to sort of speak declaratively about reality, and he/it will be mostly believed, or at least ignored
trinque: if that exists, in other words, humans are wired to mostly receive their understanding of what is real from authority, this mode of "state" is exceptionally irresponsible
pete_dushenski: sure, except for how it might be seen to be "irresponsible"
trinque: pete_dushenski: this form of govt does not broadcast a coherent model of reality
pete_dushenski: whether they pray to the state or science or the church is a matter of fashion
trinque: pete_dushenski: I am saying that this religion is irresponsible
pete_dushenski: it's not clear to me that reality is digestible below a certain level of intelligence
trinque: pete_dushenski: I think we'd agree then. I'm saying the OS that's being distributed is a mangled hack
trinque: sure one can't apprehend reality in some objective way
trinque: but some confucianism for the peasants never hurt
pete_dushenski: this os is definitely in the first! biggest! best! vein
pete_dushenski: we all have to believe in something, some moreso than others
trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model
pete_dushenski: the less critical capacity, the more articles of faith
trinque: one cannot just give up modeling at that point
pete_dushenski: trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model << curious, when ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform door to door shakedowns are incompatible with the present day usg.
mircea_popescu: hanbot lol nastase. totally. he did end up in jail tho.
mircea_popescu: btw : he only ended up in jail because he was a politician, and poiliticians exclusively are required to DECLARE their fortune.
mircea_popescu: otherwise ordinary romanian can just go "where from ? your mother paid me."
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> which is, as good as any, a demarcation point for the birth of modern usg << more like the birthplace of the central planning element thereof. "we affirm congress has the authority to central plan economic activity"
trinque: pete_dushenski: I just spent a long time sitting once upon a time
mircea_popescu: centralism is ever the temptation of the stupid and the lazy, for very good game theoretic reasons : they know that greatness won't be oozing out of them personally any time soon. perhaps if it were all put into this box then it may ooze it ?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> well, first hoover, then fdr << the pissing on veterans is a universal sport. this is why being a soldier is dumb, being a mercenary is better.
mircea_popescu: <trinque> sure one can't apprehend reality in some objective way << if this is true, how come gavin's not getting what he wants ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu centralism would be that eretz israel geese in a barrel thing again
trinque: mircea_popescu: if there is an objective mode of being, I am further down the mountain than it
mircea_popescu: well for that matter the pioneers fired on the british.
assbot: BitBet - Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours :: 1.04 B (50%) on Yes, 1.06 B (50%) on No | closing in 1 day 55 minutes | weight: 100`000 (100`000 to 100`000) ... (
http://bit.ly/18Lr9j3 )
mircea_popescu: a woman that remembers her time as queen of sheeba and a sow that remembers the greatness of mud make just as good mates for a hog mounting humiliation porn thing.
trinque: mircea_popescu: you have a hell of a way of provoking a cascade of thought/reflection with a single question
trinque: perhaps we find objective truth when we bump into it, so to speak
mircea_popescu: right ? whether ou find it or not, it's always there to fuck oyu over the mouth. with a stick.
trinque: gavin can't have shamcoin because bitcoin does not work that way, too bad
cazalla: asciilifeform, anything ever come of yifu's black/white list?
mircea_popescu: trinque but "how do you know", after all, if opinion enacted reality (or properly, if there were no objective reality past opinions) then his gambit would actually work.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 19:43:16; asciilifeform: chetty: ''Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say anything. O'Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection: 'For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to assume that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions upon millions of kilometres away. But what o
trinque: this calls into question whether the interaction between sovereign and subject is one of the dispensation of a (hopefully better) OS, as I stated, or whether he is rather to be a force of nature which is so, regardless of what winblows they're running
trinque: as I think about it, mostly a fairy tale that extends the reach of foot-soldiers to nightmares
trinque: I was thinking of it in terms of "go read these books" and "you know, don't steal that guy's potatoes"
trinque: asciilifeform: yep, that would make sense
mircea_popescu: exactly antitethical to how wots work, incidentally. because coherence is the only possible attacxk against a wot.
☟︎ assbot: Advanced WoT course : how the WoT is attacked, and how it defends itself. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/18LsZQQ )
mircea_popescu: but the idea being that sybil attacks succeed when and only when the nodes are too agreefull.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:50:13; mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.00094254 = 1.8851 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/18LtkTG )
mircea_popescu: "why vote for women ? because if women spend more time talking to the state and less talking to their husbands, the state will be stronger and society weaker"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, this was a strongly held byzantine notion, too.
mircea_popescu: to this day i suspect xiaoping's plan was exactly 1. industrialise through giving away the products to the west. within half a century you will have the industry and they will have collapsed.
mircea_popescu: best one point plan for world domination i ever heard. plus it worked.
mircea_popescu: early internet - boost of disease, mature internet - cure
mircea_popescu: consider the doomed nature of centralism. so louis defeudalized france, forced the nobles away from their estates and relevancy, captive at versailles. fifty years later his heir was being decapitated, and the system collapsed.
mircea_popescu: a system, mind you, that had supported nine centuries of previous monarchs just fine
trinque: I read that article re: representative democracy, but it's clarified in the context of the current conversation
mircea_popescu: through horror of all type , famine, plague, rebellion, invasion, everything possible, thinkable and unthinkjable
trinque: this experience of finding oneself to be using old concepts to try to label new data in the present was sort of what I was trying to describe with the meditation experience
mircea_popescu: and i'll take any bet that feudalism as promoted by b-a will take the piss, vinegar and cockroach guts out of any alternative, startingwith the usg
mircea_popescu: and ending with whatever the chinese will come up with at the final end of it.
trinque: I think sitting there I realized the fact of my own existence for the first time
trinque: as a sort of direct, sensory thing
trinque: rather than a wad of concepts I believed
mircea_popescu: "This, I submit, is on its own sufficient proof that pornography is a wholesome, socially representative activity, whereas both cinematography and fashion are (by comparison at least) pernicious and very, very false. And that which is false can never be art, irrespective of all pretense to the contrary."
mircea_popescu: he probably got a little horny for the nude girl at dating age
assbot: Mo. Man Arrested After Telling Black Waitress He Wanted to Show Her Where He ‘Hung’ Her Grandpa - The Root ... (
http://bit.ly/18LvNxo )
thestringpuller: I'm telling you. Quit your day job and become stand up comedian
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Apparently. "Outrage fatigue"
BingoBoingo: I imagine asciilifeform's object as similar to kakobrekla's objection. Involves going outside.
mircea_popescu: Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player. That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and
assbot: He’s got a ‘Downton Abbey’-inspired office, but Rep. Aaron Schock won’t talk about it. - The Washington Post ... (
http://bit.ly/18LxrPC )