log
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pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu then a dayjob keeper is me!
mircea_popescu: lemme tell you a joke.
pete_dushenski: k
mircea_popescu: if you ever meet a hungarian speaking foreign languages you just met a jew.
jurov: lol
mircea_popescu: hehehe.
pete_dushenski: haha!
pete_dushenski: i wonder what other peoples/nationalities this heuristic might apply to...
pete_dushenski: heuristic/funny
mircea_popescu: funnyristic.
pete_dushenski: aka stereotype ;/
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 341706 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 1013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 45251697037.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.64029
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/bitbet-sbbet-january-2015-statement/
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu thanks for the translations :D
mircea_popescu: yw
jurov: btw, are the pogosticks supposed to accept outside connections? if they're plugged into home routers then we need upnp then
jurov: and it was the first thing excised... it will ran as standalone daemon, i guess
jurov: *run
jurov: the upnpnp deamon, i mean
mircea_popescu: i doubt someone who has the werewithal to get the pogo going needs me to unpnp him
mats: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 237.8, Best ask: 238.94, Bid-ask spread: 1.14000, Last trade: 237.79, 24 hour volume: 15989.25963627, 24 hour low: 221.79, 24 hour high: 241.98, 24 hour vwap: 229.507388939
mircea_popescu: !up kobud
pete_dushenski: I think that in the old days where the financial system was not too developed, the only way to develop a new idea was to be born rich, to have resources and use them. Today and increasingly so to the extent the financial system works well, you can start a company, apply an idea, or even run large companies even if you are not born rich and don't have a lot of money.
pete_dushenski: ^today apparently = neobee
trinque: lol
pete_dushenski: and this is a good thing!
trinque: today as back then, you can bootstrap yourself so long as you're prepared to lay brick by hand for a half decade
pete_dushenski: unless the vc fairy sprinkles some dust on you while you're sleeping
pete_dushenski: then it really only takes a few minutes
thestringpuller: trinque hah; you are going to treat your robots like people?
mircea_popescu: it can work, sure.
pete_dushenski: and 11 year olds can give ted talks on how to fix the world
mircea_popescu: similarly, in the old days when you were born a maid, you were going to be a maid even if you were really pretty.
mircea_popescu: now you can also be a pop singer.
trinque: pete_dushenski: the vc fairy wanted 67% of my business
trinque: I told him to fuck off
pete_dushenski: lol
pete_dushenski: that's an aggressive ask eh
mats: heh
mircea_popescu: it's not common to allow founders control in the financed vehicle, principally because founders usually fuck it up.
mircea_popescu: cases like spolski's are the exception.
mats: unconfirmed report of someone trying to root an ubuntu luser idli g herr
mats: agh, mobile. idling here.
mircea_popescu: how did it go ?
mats: guy went to sleep before i got more details, im going to put up a vulnerable box later and see what happens
mats: get a cloak, people
trinque: heh I wonder how many servers just got ssh'd into
danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/kyuupichan/status/562411554583244801
assbot: Haha. "Please use the shared hairdryers only for the hair on your head. Thank you for your cooperation." http://t.co/49FIEB4iKo
mircea_popescu: trinque some ubuntu vuln reported or something ?
trinque: not to my knowledge
trinque: I tend to assume things like znc are riddled with holes
trinque: could be something along those lines
mircea_popescu: "The turn of the cultural left to Twitter is a reflection of its weakness on university campuses, not its strength. Today’s intra-left fights over cultural identity are not the birth pangs of a dangerous new radical left elite of cultural enforcers. They’re the product of anger and economic powerlessness, the unanticipated result of the hollowing out of humanities on university campuses, and the parlous state of in
mircea_popescu: tellectual journalism. "
mircea_popescu: ha!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5000 @ 0.00096956 = 4.8478 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: i tell you, within twenty years if that as much as having been interested in the left will be a hanging offense.
mircea_popescu: "This is in turn leading to an (unsustainable) proliferation of cultural commentary, some of it unreadable, but much of it sharp and interesting. Much of this commentary is understandably driven by spleen. Impoverished freelancers and adjunct intellectuals, scraping out a living from commuter teaching and dead end jobs, are angry when they look at the comfortable positions that a previous generation of humanities intel
mircea_popescu: lectuals had, and that they never will. They won’t ever have good jobs. They do have Twitter. But that’s nearly all that they do have or are likely to have any time soon."
mircea_popescu: that's quite right : nobody ovulating today will get as far as sara mccune.
mircea_popescu: even Leah McGrath Goodman's poverty will be relatively a high mark.
mats: http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2012-3411
trinque: mats: this was the guy's issue?
mats: yeah
mircea_popescu: just a dos ?
trinque: way different than "rooted"
mats: looks p benign
asciilifeform: jurov: if they're plugged into home routers then we need upnp then << why????!? every home router ever made, even utter garbage, lets user open ports the normal way
asciilifeform: fuck upnp.
mircea_popescu: esp since... well... so dnsmasq will get killed by kernel
BingoBoingo: systemLulz https://twitter.com/lusis/status/562288488952107008/photo/1
assbot: man I'm glad the systemd devs all have SSDs. http://t.co/92rGdSitBF
asciilifeform: not just for what it is, but for how it's implemented. (metric shit-ton of xml garbage, book-length standards doc)
mats: i need coffee
mircea_popescu: is dnsmasq even standard in ubuntu ?!
jurov: i have never seen anyone except myself opening ports the normal way
trinque: mircea_popescu: it's part of the awful libvirt wad
mircea_popescu: jurov that may be a function of social circle!
trinque: handles IPs and whatnot on the virtual networks
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the only way to develop a new idea was to be born rich << or... take it. chingis khan style.
jurov: i won't contend that
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in retrospect, the efforts of those shitgremlins to shoehorn xml into things are so lulzy.
mircea_popescu: it's dead anyway, but hey, well done guise, at least you went blind on code.
asciilifeform: root an ubuntu luser idli g herr << lol, time for honeypots
jurov: jus' saying i don't have anyone to give pogostick to.
mircea_popescu: the reports of mark twain's rooting seem grossly exaggerated.
jurov: people who know how to open ports either do have a node or can't be arsed to even for free
mircea_popescu: jurov you can just drop one in local library.
mircea_popescu: they will... never figure it out.
mircea_popescu: considering what it costs...
mircea_popescu: lol i have spinning disks.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, much easier to destroy.
asciilifeform also runs spinning disks
asciilifeform: i don't know any serious computer user who does not have a multitude of spinning disks at all times.
mircea_popescu: but then again it works out : we're not systemd devs.
jurov: if i do, then i'll add upnp anyway. just fyi.
asciilifeform: jurov: you know, upnp can run as a separate daemon
mircea_popescu: jurov not a crime. but you could also just 192.0.0.1 and typeadmin admin
asciilifeform: jurov: absolutely no reason to build it into bitcoind, ever
jurov: yes, as a separate daemon
asciilifeform: even if you absolutely need it somewhere (e.g., bitcoind as malware payload)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it occurs that at 4mb, nodes can be run as virii by now without problems
asciilifeform: 4mb on arm
mircea_popescu: especially since usgavin has made space double and bandwidth expand
asciilifeform: ~1.2 compressed
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: the blockchain is the bulk of the footprint, quite obviously
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000043.html << asciilifeform, thanks for this. this goes along with some of the trouble we've been seeing over the last 72 hours.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AlKumo )
asciilifeform: the proggy itself has never been large in comparison
asciilifeform: mod6: trouble << do tell
mod6: in a wide variety of ways, and it's not consistant, we've been having issues getting past the last checkpoint block (more often than not): 168,000
mod6: one sec, i have a matrix for what we've tried.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik windows doens't mind secret partitions.
mod6: we're still testing this out... but i/we haven't encoutered anything like this until just this past 72 hours:
mod6: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=0Mdd9zrL
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AlKIdk )
mod6: we're interested to see if anyone running: v0.5.3 + patches {1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, & 6 (db_config) } runs into the same issues.
mod6: also, v0.5.3. + patches {1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7} (which includes the version update)
mircea_popescu: A Person Paper on Purity in Language << i don't grok wtf this is supposed to be.
mod6: we also note that if you do remove checkpoints, obv, this is no longer a problem.
mod6: but, its weird, because a week ago i ran a full sync of: v0.5.3 + {1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6} and sync'd just fine, as you can see in the matrix notes (was able to send/receive here: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=FSA9gxs8)
assbot: Pastebin.com Unknown Paste ID ... ( http://bit.ly/1AlM47Z )
mod6: and TomServo was able to run with the following config and just achieved full sync: v0.5.3 + {1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7}
PeterL: what do the checkpoints do?
mod6: so, like we were saying, its not consistant. and perhaps we need to point directly at v0.5.3 nodes... not sure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't grok wtf this is supposed to be << was written when the whole 'pronoun warrior' thing was brand new
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is (i thought this was very obvious) a spoof on subject
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but looky : "Perhaps this piece shocks you. It is meant to. The entire point of it is to use something that we find shocking as leverage to illustrate the fact that something that we usually close our eyes to is also very shocking. The most effective way I know to do so is to develop an extended analogy with something known as shocking and reprehensible. Racism is that thing, in this case. I am happy w
mircea_popescu: ith this piece, despite-but also because of-its shock value. I think it makes its point better than any factual article could. As a friend of mine said, "It makes you so uncomfortable that you can't ignore it." I admit that rereading it makes even me, the author, uncomfortable! Numerous friends have warned me that in publishing this piece I am taking a serious risk of earning myself a reputation as a terrible racist. I
mircea_popescu: guess I cannot truly believe that anyone would see this piece that way. To misperceive it this way would be like calling someone a vicious racist for telling other people "The word 'nigger' is extremely offensive." If allusions to racism, especially for the purpose of satirizing racism and its cousins, are confused with racism itself, then I think it is time to stop writing."
mircea_popescu: a) it does not shock me.
mircea_popescu: b) it is simply very bad writing.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing of depth in there, it;s just the usual libertard tedium.
mircea_popescu: and yes, women and men are structurally different, and will never be the same.
mircea_popescu: not in the way white men and black men are superficially different
mircea_popescu: but quite in the way your pony is not your dog.
mod6: PeterL: well, one thing they do, is prevent spam from bogus blocks from old timestamps: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/main.cpp#L1442
assbot: bitcoin/main.cpp at v0.5.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1CoQMyA )
asciilifeform: mr h was trying, as a young academic in usa, to troll liberasts without being stoned to death immediately
mircea_popescu: he seems to be proposing the notion that saying she when i mean a cuntbearer is about as bad as inventing a special ble pronoun to denote a guy's color
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and it reads as the usual tedium because it -was- same, with words swapped
mircea_popescu: well here's the thing : i don't happen to give a shit about the guy's color
mircea_popescu: but i'm not particularly interested to discuss anyone outside of their gender.
asciilifeform: at any rate it was a mega-troll in gringolandia
mircea_popescu: which is why english, latin and every other language has a gender pronoun and declension.
asciilifeform: if does not work outside - unsurprising
mircea_popescu: i guess anything can be a mega troll there.
asciilifeform: 'seinfeld effect' case.
mircea_popescu: such a dumb premise tho. "i will write very bad prose, which will prove to you that sensible is shocking!!!1"
asciilifeform: cuntbearer << can't help but imagine this as something like a cupbearer
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda what's meant.
mircea_popescu: and somehow this gets conflated with marital status ? who the hell cares if the woman's "married" whatever that even means.
asciilifeform: mod6: not once have i seen the wedge at 168000
asciilifeform: with any of our 0.5.3 derivatives
mircea_popescu apologizes for all the spam in the more important discussion.
asciilifeform: the 'bastard' variant will wedge, however, for up to an hour (in my experiments)
asciilifeform: when it encounters a shit-feeder
mircea_popescu: mod6 i didn't see a 168000 exactly freeze either, ever
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: not once have i seen the wedge at 168000 << us either, until 72 hours ago
asciilifeform: why no more than hour, i do not know - either good fortune, or their connection flakes out (see former), or ?
mod6: hmm.
asciilifeform: mod6: also note that the hardcoded seeds do not come into play unless irc fails
asciilifeform: (presently irc is there and enabled)
mod6: yeah, gotcha.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if memory serves there'sa cutoff that severs unproductive connections after an hour.
asciilifeform: that'd be it then
asciilifeform: mod6: post your debug.log
asciilifeform: mod6: for the wedge
mod6: so if anyone else sees any wedging on a checkpoint block like the following, let me know right away, pm me if required: http://dpaste.com/1N3NPT9
assbot: dpaste: 1N3NPT9 ... ( http://bit.ly/1AlPffR )
mod6: asciilifeform: there is a snippit in the matrix one. not sure if I have a full one still.
mod6: i probably do, but I'm making a fresh sync now.
asciilifeform: aha found it
mod6: will have a fresh one in an hour or two
asciilifeform recites kakobrekla's sacramental 'did somebody molest the britneychain'
mod6: i was getting pretty paranoid at first.
mod6: had a tinfoil hat on and everything heheh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41350 @ 0.00037014 = 15.3053 BTC [+]
mod6: got 100k blocks to go until i probably re-wedge @ 168k
mod6: one time i got wedged at like 27,5XX !?
mod6: this was on Saturday night.
mod6: but then i applied the rm_checkpoints patch and then it continued on np.
asciilifeform: mod6: make a copy of .bitcoin shortly prior to wedge
mod6: ok will do.
mod6: We wanted to collect as much data as possible before we let other know in #b-a. Hence the delay until now.
mod6: I wasn't fully sure that it wasn't our build script or something wonky screwing it up... but a hand-build showed the same result.
asciilifeform: not proclaiming a molested britneychain as proven fact yet, but if it had been, it would look rather much like this.
mod6: i've got mutiple good v0.5.3 chains saved, but ... just was regression testing to ensure full sync with the v0.5.3.1 patch before release sign & cut
mod6: lo and behold..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, i keep old nodes and old chains.
mircea_popescu: it must be some sort of local issue.
asciilifeform: mod6: this'd be why i objected to zapping the checkpoints thing wholesale. now, programmable checkpoints - by all means.
asciilifeform: config file - where they belong.
asciilifeform: just say no to hardcoded magic numb3rz.
mircea_popescu: code is not for data. data is not for code.
mod6: yeah. that's the new plan. all magic numbers in a config file.
mircea_popescu: mod6 wasn;t it the old plan ?!
mod6: or, at least, we'll start with that.
mod6: yeah, well, still is the plan i should say :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: guess who also keeps vintage blockchain around
asciilifeform: and i doubt it's just 2 of us
mircea_popescu: i don't just "keep it around', it's what i actually use.
asciilifeform: all molestation of britneychain is necessarily localized phenomenon
asciilifeform uses, when uses anything at all
mircea_popescu: and yeah pretty sure we're not the onlyones. not by a longmargin.
asciilifeform keeps a number of editions going
mod6: hmm, but yeah, really /was/ weird that it was inconsistant.
mod6: i.e. TomServo having total success, and ben & I having weding problems.
mod6: and we were using same build scripts .. and me building by hand even once.
asciilifeform uses bitcoin as a scientific toy, curio, but if he had been firing it in anger for years as mircea_popescu had, would have finished own implementation eons ago
mircea_popescu: btw, since you were asking ( a while ago) : found the oldest src set, monday may 21st 2012
mircea_popescu: you still want it ?
asciilifeform: yes!
asciilifeform: sign, post
asciilifeform: to jurov's turdatron, say
asciilifeform: as big fat gz
mircea_popescu: not big at all, 4 mb ish
asciilifeform: bombs away.
danielpbarron: height=176772 << no wedge here
mod6: what's your build?
asciilifeform: i'd love to know what blocks are in the molestation set.
danielpbarron: mod6, the one asciilifeform compiled
mod6: is it the portotronic?
danielpbarron: yeah
danielpbarron: the bastard one
mod6: yeah, totally different beast
asciilifeform: is some joker trying to euchre in on satoshi's goodies.
asciilifeform: one diddled node at a time.
mod6: but danielpbarron: good to know tho. thx.
mod6: we must get this patched RI repeatable (and it was before a few days ago) before we can cut release.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how doers this work, email to address, gz in attachment, clearsigned text as email body ?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: as described in http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyUhn4 )
asciilifeform: attach foo.gz and foo.gz.sig
asciilifeform: for all foos
asciilifeform: body of msg is a cleartext signed pgpgram
asciilifeform: that's it (unless jurov has some other weird constraint in there we haven't yet discovered)
asciilifeform: (x.y.sig is an ascii-armoured detached sig of the usual variety)
asciilifeform: mod6, danielpbarron: in case this wasn't clear, my armv5 build still has the checkpoints (other than orphanage burner, only the basic patches are in)
asciilifeform: this is kinda why i was reluctant to distribute binaries - i want everyone to know precisely what they're eating
asciilifeform: and this is quite impossible with binaries
asciilifeform: (it's hard enough with src)
mod6: yeah, i wanna re-iterate here, all of the wedging issues ben and I had were /with/ checkpoints included. if we apply the rm_checkpoints patch, no longer a problem.
asciilifeform: aha
punkman: just sent a patch to the list, wonder if it'll go through
danielpbarron: i'm just running that one while i figure the compile out
danielpbarron: i have 2 more units to try other things on
mod6: 130k...will stop @ 150 and backup .bitcoin/*
asciilifeform: punkman: looks like not
asciilifeform: punkman: generally works within a few sec. when works
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/02/mtgox-parent-company-tibanne-enters-bankruptcy/
mircea_popescu: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000043.html << pretty sad.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyVf2L )
mod6: well, but also, i like i was saying, it's inconsistant. because TomServo has checkpoints included and he got through the gauntlet, and I did as well lastweek before the version patch.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's sent, jurov let me know what i fucked up
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, yours eaten too
mircea_popescu: i probably didn't do it right.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i posted that earlier today. observe: if the hardseed list were actually used with any frequency, we would have noticed the scarcity of still-usable seeds therein ages ago
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as it is, it's a fallback after dns (snipped in patch i proposed last night) and irc mechanizms.
mircea_popescu: except... i kept saying it and saying it since ages ago ?
asciilifeform: i assume mircea_popescu did similar experimet.
asciilifeform: nt
mircea_popescu: always handwaved away by teh power rangers, but hey, you don't end up at the bottom of my shitlist by being responsive and responsible.
asciilifeform: i'm a bit curious how their seed blob is generated
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/no-such-labs-teases-future-developments/
mircea_popescu: all the people who act all shocked when gavin & co can't get enough credit to write a hello world in basic fail to recognize about two years of history trying to gently nudge, then educate, then eventually beat the idiots into some sort of shape
asciilifeform: one interesting way would be, resources permitting, a massive ipv4 post scan for 8333...
asciilifeform: *port
asciilifeform: scan
mircea_popescu: what resources do you need ?
punkman: https://www.shodan.io/search?query=port%3A8333
assbot: Shodan ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyW9vY )
mike_c: probably just culled from bitcoin-seeder, no?
punkman: fiddy bucks for shoddan
mircea_popescu: there's only 4bn ips
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo dear glub man
asciilifeform: teases, lol
BingoBoingo: So many teases
mircea_popescu: punkman you got an account ?
BingoBoingo: ;;ud glub
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you actually want to see this done, and have not yet done it?
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Glub&defid=4862930 | Tipping a narrow necked bottle of olive oil upside down in an attempt to pour a greater quantity which results in a "glub" sound as air fills the bottle replacing the  ...
asciilifeform surprised
asciilifeform: ud is wrong
asciilifeform: that's 'glug'
asciilifeform: ask any chemist!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can i get some public/private separation here!
asciilifeform: lul
punkman: mircea_popescu: no
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it needs roughly same resources as a good spamatron
mircea_popescu: it doesn't really need as much.
decimation: so are there actually isps that filter port 8333 or was that just made up bullshit?
mircea_popescu: made up bs.
asciilifeform: decimation: i can't speak for the whole planet, but nothing i've used in usa filters incoming except in the sense of -all- incoming being denied by wireless providers
mircea_popescu: i mean, obviously, an idiot will exist for whatever idiocy. pretending that "transsexuals are hot now" is just trannie wet dreamin'.
asciilifeform: outgoing - port 25 typically dropped where i live
asciilifeform: on account of winblows/spam
asciilifeform: actually i must revise above. winblows 445 incoming is often zapped
asciilifeform: on account of idiots/smb
decimation: re: hedge funds & banks manipulating pr << one wonders if they are trying to jawbone bitcoin down in order to buy in, or kill?
asciilifeform: https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/masscan
assbot: robertdavidgraham/masscan · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyX2EU )
mircea_popescu: decimation the two aren't really distinct.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah port 445 is amusing. I remember years ago when you could 'hack' by clicking 'show network neighborhood' on winblows
asciilifeform: decimation: esp. fun on defective WANs like cablemodem
decimation: I wonder if anyone has attempted to hack around with docsis at the physical layer
asciilifeform: decimation: answer's yes
asciilifeform: decimation: i'm aware of work re: 'uncapping' (cheat for bandwidth augment) but also proper pwnage of modems
asciilifeform: i can't say that i've kept up with the work on the subject
decimation: supposedly traffic on the wire is encrypted
decimation: but I don't know if the spec is open
asciilifeform: decimation: i haven't a clue, but generally a mass-produced gadget in usa -never- used proper public key crypto
decimation: ah is open http://www.cablelabs.com/specs/specification-search/?cat=docsis&scat=docsis-3-1
assbot: CableLabs » Search Specifications Library ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyXpPL )
asciilifeform: if uses civilized rsa at all, it is with ludicrously shrunken key lengths
decimation: apparently docsis 3.1 uses 2048-bit rsa for the device, 4096 for the root ca
mircea_popescu: that is not bad ?
asciilifeform: aha so ssl-style sc4m
asciilifeform: decimation: i can't be arsed to wade through spec, but didja find who generates key?
asciilifeform: i.e. is it baked in at factory
asciilifeform: or crapped out on powerup
decimation: device key?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: and, what gets used as the block cipher ?
asciilifeform: (aes? what length)
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106657 @ 0.00038332 = 40.8838 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99203 @ 0.00039021 = 38.71 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: punkman: i specifically did not mean 'use publicly available site which may or may not actually scan in the way printed on the box, and may or may not censor or otherwise diddle shown results'
asciilifeform: fiddybucks or otherwise
asciilifeform: and once scanned, the logical next step is to query versions
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 185750 @ 0.00036981 = 68.6922 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: and, if gargantuan pipes can be had, to query addr lists and then graph wizardry
asciilifeform: (e.g. find clusters, cliques, esp. ones with peculiar behaviour)
asciilifeform: for a less-than-gargantuan pipe, this scales down in the obvious statistical way.
mircea_popescu: aws is cheap enough.
asciilifeform: iirc, the latest phoundation edition is able to use ipv6
asciilifeform: but probably safe to ignore these
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not sure if aws will even put out raw packets
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see the linked 'mass scan' readme.
asciilifeform: (it uses custom tcp stack)
asciilifeform: and prefers to diddle a physical NIC directly, even.
asciilifeform: can also scan the old-fashioned way but then add two or three zeros to time required.
asciilifeform: also it absolutely has to happen from outside usa, for reasons
asciilifeform: (or in usa, but not own box)
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/elnathan/status/561822765402324994
assbot: Our thoughts are also with the measles-ravaged country America. I hope we are screening them before they come to Africa.
asciilifeform: lol!
BingoBoingo would not be surprised if traveler leaving US get quarentined for "Health Screenings" in the not to distant future.
BingoBoingo: If not already a thing.
Vexual: even if just to check if your dna is the same as when you arrived
asciilifeform: or what interesting antibodies you've come back with
Vexual: tru dat
asciilifeform: (for non-u.s. folks: the harshest searches are reserved for folks flying -in- at present)
punkman: asciilifeform: question is where to host massscan instance
asciilifeform: punkman: got a 10Gb/s pipe somewhere in asia ?
decimation: asciilifeform: docsis 3.1 uses aes-cbc 128-bit keys
asciilifeform: on physical (specifically not vps) machine
asciilifeform: decimation: ahahaha there we go
asciilifeform: toy crypto - it's not just a bad idea, it's the law! (TM)
decimation: ah "The CM MUST have two factory installed CM Device Certificates (and their associated private keys). The CM MUST have a CM Device Certificate installed that is issued from the new PKI. The CM MUST have a CM Device Certificate installed that is issued from the legacy PKI. The CM MUST have the same RSA public key in the CM Device Certificate as the RSA public key in the BPKM Attributes depending upon which CM Device Certificate is
decimation: used for authentication. The CM MUST use the CM Device Certificate issued from the new PKI when authenticating with a DOCSIS 3.1 or higher CMTS. The CM is to use the CM Device Certificate issued from the legacy PKI when authenticating with a DOCSIS 3.0 or older version of DOCSIS CMTS."
decimation: CM = "Cable Modem"
asciilifeform: -and- device keys generated in factory!
punkman: btw the patch that got lost in the tubes: http://dpaste.com/2EG2F1K.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz1zav )
punkman: removes cpumining functions
asciilifeform: punkman: lemme guess, snipped miner
asciilifeform: punkman: i actually must confess that i disagree
decimation: don't worry little consumer, your device uses 'military grade crypto'
asciilifeform: this is, recall, a -reference- implementation
decimation: we'll keep the keys though thanks
asciilifeform: punkman: hence ought to contain an example of miner.
asciilifeform: even if it is worthless in practice
decimation: lol "The CM MUST be able to process certificate serial number values containing 20 octets or fewer. The CM MUST accept certificates that have serial numbers that are negative or zero."
asciilifeform: but idea being, if dropped on alpha centauri with the RI, ought to be able to start using bitcoin immediately
asciilifeform: this means miner is in.
Vexual: japanese torrentboxes are abundant
decimation: asciilifeform: surely the miner need not be part of the same binary turdball?
asciilifeform: Vexual: has to be a *physical* box
asciilifeform: decimation: sure, can be outside
Vexual: im sure they are
asciilifeform: decimation: but imho it is unwise to throw away satoshi's miner so lightly
decimation: aye, the cpu mining code can come with
asciilifeform: satoshi's miner is valuable for the same reason as the rest of that piece of shit
punkman: asciilifeform: yeah I'm not sure it should be removed, the foundation shall decide. it was good for practice anyway
asciilifeform: i.e. it was written before bitcoin was valuable.
decimation: asciilifeform: in general, docsis is a "reference implementation" of usg crypto, complete with fips standards etc.
asciilifeform: decimation: surprised ?
Vexual: if youre making a node box, youd better have somewhere to plug in a miner
decimation: well, the amusing part is the key escrow
asciilifeform: Vexual: well, 'Get Work'
asciilifeform: decimation: the funny part isn't any of this, but that wtf is the point, isp has plaintext of your packets necessarily, anyway
asciilifeform: the escrow can have -only one- purpose - to let nice folks at usg forge packets as 'provably' from your house.
asciilifeform: !s toilet tank
assbot: 9 results for 'toilet tank' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=toilet+tank
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah presumably if they wanted the packets they would just squeeze the ip stack at the isp
asciilifeform: ergo it is for -writing- not reading.
asciilifeform: reading - already trivial
decimation: well, there's another agenda here too
decimation: cable companies don't want mickey mouse crypto to cause some kind of pr incident
asciilifeform: there is also the matter of guaranteeing that the equipment cannot be repurposed for any sane use
asciilifeform: e.g., abroad
decimation: your traffic is for the eyes of those who are authorized to have it
asciilifeform: ^ that comes from isp tap, no need for diddled modems
decimation: aye. but the problem with this system is that they have put all their eggs in the manufacturer's basket
decimation: who keeps that keylist?
asciilifeform: there's another aspect, also
asciilifeform: there is a tradition in usa of 'deniable' snooping
asciilifeform: where the tap is placed surprisingly close downstream to the 'last mile'
BingoBoingo: http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/heartbleed-in-rust << implied lolz
assbot: heartbleed in rust ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz2WFT )
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> can also scan the old-fashioned way but then add two or three zeros to time required. << yes, but cheap enough :)
asciilifeform: decimation: i wonder if the device keys have even been 'phuctored' ever.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not certain that a scan taking >year is worth much
mircea_popescu: eh fuck em, cloud speeds double every half year.
mircea_popescu: trivial on this basis to show it will be < 1 year
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: no matter what other numbers are involved.
mircea_popescu: don't lol mr, my work on this topic has been reviewed by internet csseconomists and other lolexperts. plus oleg leganza.
asciilifeform: decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-08-2014#813119 << old thread, relevant ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-08-2014 03:56:01; asciilifeform: there is also the tired, old, mundane 'there is a kilo of cocaine in your toilet tank' theorem.
asciilifeform: there is a whole not-very-well-hidden world of what one might call 'cardinal richelieu' ('...six words of the honest man!') infrastructure, waiting for command from usg to send 'd34th thr34tz!!!1111!!!' to some crowned head that are Provably!111! from your house, when the time comes
mircea_popescu: kinda why one should not waste time.
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
mircea_popescu: send'em while you still can.
asciilifeform: oh it'll send by itself, lol
asciilifeform: with finest grammar, from content farms in philippines
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/02/ubs-groups-cio-wants-to-throw-bitcoin-under-the-buss/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check out this funny happenstance : once bb dropped the philippines bomb ? 20 mb thread suddenly of no further interest, off first page etc.
mircea_popescu: the best part of tradecraft is that it is so god damned hard to do well.
asciilifeform: see also the reddit incident
asciilifeform: same deal, no?
mircea_popescu: it's just this font of lulz, like, hm... quintessentially american to me.
mircea_popescu: lemme dig up that woman.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2010/literara-este-grea/ << julia a moore.
assbot: Literara este grea pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz528X )
asciilifeform wonders whether, if mircea_popescu offered a bounty, one of the flunkies would walk in with 'smoking gun' dirt
mircea_popescu: this was a simple woman who couldn't write, that infatuated herself with the notion that she can produce poetry
mircea_popescu: was a great amusement for a little bit
mircea_popescu: but she persevered. the exact manners in which she persevered are, to me, the best summary of the american spirit that can be had.
asciilifeform: i was expecting a reference to the maths girl
mircea_popescu: a) claimed that the poor arrangement / band / etc were the reason people "didn't like" her 2nd performance.
mircea_popescu: the move from "laughed their ass at me" to "didn't like" ? blaming the band ? here : http://trilema.com/2015/have-some-chocolate-cake/#comment-111925
assbot: Have some chocolate cake. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz5gge )
mircea_popescu: but then, for it doesn't end there! then she confronted teh comedy goldminers by saying that "they each paid a quarter to see a fool, but she's been paid 50 bux and sees a roomfull of fools"
mircea_popescu: right ? TOTALLY TURNED IT ON THEM WITH HER WITS
mircea_popescu: but then!!11 for it has a c. then her husband , who you know, was hoping to be able to enjoy a drink in a bar without being laughed into the ground sometime before he dies completely forbade any further writings
mircea_popescu: under pain of beatings and so forth.
mircea_popescu: so she stopped writing ~poetry~. and instead wrote a miserable novel
mircea_popescu: about a farmer. who was in debt. who was married to a marry sue, whose published novel saves the farm.
mircea_popescu: it's this particular concoction of the forcible solipsism of crusoe with the narcissism of a fifteen year old boy that grew up alone among cows, with the desperation of a dying beggar on the dark side of the moon.
mircea_popescu: and if you look at the place's history... those wolves that ate boston... their teeth are still visible in the striations of the skins of these people.
asciilifeform: ^ usa in one page
asciilifeform: !b 16
assbot: Last 16 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2AWRM6H.txt )
decimation: decimation: i wonder if the device keys have even been 'phuctored' ever. << "CMs MUST store and maintain the CM Device Certificate RSA private/public key pairs. The CM MUST store the CM Device Certificate private keys in a manner that deters unauthorized disclosure and modification. Also, CMs SHOULD prevent debugger tools from reading the CM Device Certificate private key in production devices by restricting or blocking physical
decimation: access to memory containing this key."
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934517.0 seems you've been superseded
assbot: Introducing new "the only official foundation of Bitcoin" [sign up as president] ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz6wQr )
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> it's this particular concoction of the forcible solipsism of crusoe with the narcissism of a fifteen year old boy that grew up alone among cows, with the desperation of a dying beggar on the dark side of the moon. << ahahaha best review evar
mircea_popescu is kind-of surprised anyone agrees
mircea_popescu: i thought this was highly personal and entirely idiosyncratic a view
asciilifeform: 'We, the true "only official foundation of Bitcoin" declare ourselves the new leaders. Our main goal will be hookers and blow for everyone! Our main concern will be beer and Bitcoin of course. We will represent the bitcoin community from now on in the correct way to the outside world and all important people need to bow to us and bribe us to get a foot in the door. It will also be lucrative for the people in power to infiltrat
asciilifeform: e us so they can be the true leaders of the bitcoin community too.' << win
mircea_popescu: ikr?
asciilifeform: 257458.
mircea_popescu: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/316/303/2ae.jpg << for the record, satoshi also co-authored the original not-a-mary-sue
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz8ekX )
pete_dushenski: cazalla "negative media attention Bitcoin reguarly receives in the media" << regularly
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2015/02/ubs-groups-cio-wants-to-throw-bitcoin-under-the-buss/ << lol ubs wants a "blockchain technology" separated from bitcoin
assbot: UBS Group's CIO Wants To Throw Bitcoin Under The Buss | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz8Xm4 )
mircea_popescu: there you go, who asked if to own or to burn ? to this.
asciilifeform: wasn't that an old idiocy ?
asciilifeform: at least a few months?
mircea_popescu: if ubs wasn't so very bankrupt, it'd even matter more.
asciilifeform: i distinctly recall hearing of it before
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nobody lost his job as ubs cio by doing old idiocy
cazalla: asciilifeform, this one is new but UBS have mentioned it before
cazalla: pete_dushenski, ty
pete_dushenski: np
decimation: didn't some ubs guy jump out a window a few years ago
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: famous street-pizza kitchen
decimation: I'm thinking of zurich insurance
Vexual: if anyone patents blockchain, its because fuck
Vexual: einstein would be sitting there, drunk as fuck in austria, thinking, "nah thats the same shit"
asciilifeform: let'em patent sky, earth, sea
asciilifeform: own arses.
mircea_popescu: ideally they patent the particular way in which they suck my cock.
mircea_popescu: so there's no confusion if i'm gettingserviced by oliver bussmann or by his mom.
Vexual: lol
asciilifeform: 'the bus, mmm, broke down, mm. -we're- the bus now.' --- 'bangbus'
decimation: asciilifeform: re: 'drugs in toilet' << the simple version is 'ur bezzlars be our bezzlars now!' http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/gun-businesses-seek-ways-to-survive-while-denied-basic-business-services/
assbot: How The Federal Government Puts The Screws Into Gun Businesses | The Daily Caller ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz9PHf )
decimation: "The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee released a report last month showing the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) targeted gun dealers and other businesses like payday lenders and pawn shops as illegal operations, and pressured banks to halt dealing with these businesses. The administration’s program is now known as Operation Choke Point, which is run by the Departments of Justice and Treasury."
mircea_popescu: i can;t wait for when it's not about the block size but about the total bitcoins, and it's noit about "saving africa" but about saving ubs, and the howlers are not on the forum but on every tv screen,
mircea_popescu: telling them to get fucked THEN will be much lulzier.
mircea_popescu: decimation pity they don't have the backbone (and leadership) to start a cash only program, and publicly denounce banking as a scam.
mircea_popescu: then start shooting police officers coming to steal the cash.
mircea_popescu: make a steak out of the whole thing.
Vexual: ayo
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see the old threads re: nontriviality of hooking up to cash world from scratch
decimation: usg ought to be careful with pushing this kind of shit, you don't want the little people to become confused about banking
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e.g., everybody in the store would need to move to that planet
asciilifeform: and someone would still have to come up with electronic bezzlars to pay tax with - or the tax squads descend
mircea_popescu: the nontriviality there is a little ofsometing else. the thought process of "she's a total bitch, let me try and work with her nevertheless" is responsible for more unhappy marriages than any other thing.
Vexual: i like the art deco font, reminds me of a time i can't possibly remember
asciilifeform: well that's usg.
mircea_popescu: not the right approach. bitch talks back, she gets slapped. she starts crying, she gets beaten. she screams, she gets cut loose.
Vexual: and a days folding money might fit in the back pocket
mircea_popescu: government is the bitch. the slightest getting in your way must be met with disproportionately escalated response until it either dies or gives up.
mircea_popescu: this is how small government is both obtained and maintained, and this is how a country that actually works is preserved.
mircea_popescu: and fwiw a principle i studiously observed throughout my life and in all aspects so far. cop wants to bitch about tickets, his department can enjoy thirty eight different lawsuits.
mircea_popescu: and it goes from there.
decimation: in this metaphor, us citizens are henpecked betas?
asciilifeform: 'maintain small government' is like 'maintain small tumour.'
mircea_popescu: decimation quite.
Vexual: do you pay the tickets for your limo mp?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more like "maintaining your penis in a state where it's enjoyable without ruining your life"
mircea_popescu: Vexual i dun limo.
Vexual: walking is good
decimation: the problem is that the vector usg uses is civilization-destroying. essentially "obey the law" becomes more of a farce until it becomes a laughing matter
asciilifeform: 'I can’t use Amazon, because they prohibit the majority of my products.' -- plenty of small-arms related junk on 'amazon'
mircea_popescu: shoot it.
asciilifeform: just not the boomsticks themselves (regulated)
asciilifeform: nor gunpowder.
mircea_popescu: the usg has no priviledged relationship with the law. it's a poor mockery thereof.
mircea_popescu: we've made more good law here in the past year than the us congress in the past decade.
asciilifeform: 'Karrasch also found he could not use the popular accounting software QuickBooks to pay receipts because of the nature of his business.' --- enjoy 'the cloud' !
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: wait. you could buy a kalash from karrasch ?!
kakobrekla: https://i.imgur.com/6EaciKa.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dzbblv )
decimation: '“Google could be doing business with firearms businesses. The thing is they won’t because of their stance [against firearms]. I can’t advertise on Google. I can’t advertise on Facebook. I can’t use Amazon, because they prohibit the majority of my products. I closed down that account over a year ago, and I still get notices from them, regardless of the emails I sent to them telling them that I’m not selling with them.”
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Win
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ahahaha scammer cuts loose already introducing new scam ?
mircea_popescu: jesus these idiots.
mircea_popescu: this may be one of the first ones that has made a profit.
mircea_popescu: in a year or two
kakobrekla: quite amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
BingoBoingo: "wrecking ball"
mircea_popescu: decimation see, this is the whine of an idiot.
mircea_popescu: he should start doing actually roi able advertising. create a festival. say in the place where they stole that guy's cattle grazing.
mircea_popescu: give people free ammo. sell guns for cash only.
mircea_popescu: make a point about how the enemy IS THE ENEMY
mircea_popescu: stop pussy-fucking-footing all around the broken, shattered remains of a thing that no longer exists.
asciilifeform: cash << guess who'll be waiting for the cash car on the interstate.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform << <mircea_popescu> then start shooting police officers coming to steal the cash.
mircea_popescu: what exactly are they gonna do ? feed you for the next 30 years ? big whoop.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your advice makes the same amount of sense as solzhenitsyn's
asciilifeform: which is to say, a good bit of
asciilifeform: but who will take it.
mircea_popescu: i dun recall what that was ?
asciilifeform: !s solzhenitsyn axe
assbot: 8 results for 'solzhenitsyn axe' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=solzhenitsyn+axe
mircea_popescu: a yeah.
decimation: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/surveillance-national-rifle-association-cars-license-plates/2015/01/28/id/621159/ << " The National Rifle Association is investigating reports that a leading federal agent proposed using license-plate readers to scan vehicles at gun shows as part of a gun-trafficking crackdown."
assbot: US Car-Spying Plans Included Parked at Gun Shows, WSJ Says ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dzcfpo )
mircea_popescu: people need to seriously stop worrying about imaginary hobgoblins.
mircea_popescu: so what's the problem, if half a million people shoot half a million cops, they're going to build you a special country club and keep you there with all your friends ?
mircea_popescu: o noes!
Vexual: i log numberplaltes
asciilifeform: half a million people shoot half a million cops << lol
asciilifeform: are there even half a million in north a.
mircea_popescu: takes < 1 man year.
mircea_popescu: ie, less than the fucking effort to build the cardano.
asciilifeform: this is basically solzhenitsyn's theorem
Vexual: noone to call
asciilifeform: and the reason why 1 machinegunner can guard 500 prisoners
mircea_popescu: heh. people keep derping about the 1% but don't really want to be teh 1% eh ?
mircea_popescu: fine. just as long as we all stop pretending like this is "impossible" and we understand that it's quite possible, perfectly feasible and practically effective.
mircea_popescu: then it can be a "but i dun want to" and everyone can go home happy.
asciilifeform: 'The DEA has designed this program to assist with locating, identifying, and seizing bulk currency, guns, and other illicit contraband moving along the southwest border and throughout the United States.'
asciilifeform: ( http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cars-database-Drug-Enforcement-Administration-license-plates/2015/01/27/id/620928 )
assbot: US Spying On Millions of Cars on Major Highways: Wall Street Journal ... ( http://bit.ly/1DzcRLO )
decimation: mircea_popescu: but you said the same plan would not have worked for Louis XVI
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever have a ru physics textbook with the jumping chinese example ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fraid not. decimation quote me ?
asciilifeform: 'if the chinese were to jump from stools 1 metre heigh upon hearing the signal over the radio...'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the rebellion thing is not a cowardice problem as such but actually a byzantine generals problem.
mircea_popescu: 'how many chinese women woud orgasm ' ?
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#919421 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 05:34:16; mircea_popescu: decimation suppose you were king, and ordered the leningrad of paris. what then ?
asciilifeform: suicidal courage is but one solution to the byzantine generals conundrum
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the principal problem of the byznatines was their cowardice
asciilifeform: and not an especially effective solution
mircea_popescu: decimation you see the difference between being king and being, allegedly, a nation ?
asciilifeform: as it does not guarantee that the 'generals' march simultaneously or in any useful pattern at all
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pattern is actually not required in insurection. determination only requisite ingredient, carries day.
asciilifeform: usa is a proverbial 'glass house'
mircea_popescu: decimation they're in fact the opposite sides of the same coin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform everything ever seems one thing until it isn't. you know ?
asciilifeform: in which few, other than obvious idiots and easily controlled orcs, care to 'throw stones'
asciilifeform: how many folks in usa can survive a month w/out 'business as usual' (mains, fuel, water, just-in-time deliveries to local 'food' shops)
mircea_popescu: so then why so many peoples in the usa bitch!
asciilifeform: same reason a fella sitting on the stake 'bitches'
mircea_popescu: yeah well it gotta be one or the other.
asciilifeform: sitting on a sharpened pine tree fsckinghurts
mircea_popescu: because the aliens aren't about to land with platinum visas for everyone.
asciilifeform: who can disagree.
mircea_popescu: but i guess we can wait :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, to revisit this point : the byzantine generals problem is specifically and exactly mathematically formalised cowardice.
mircea_popescu: this is what cowardice is : the consideration of meta.
mircea_popescu: you see a nail go "don't hit me unless i actually go in the wall" ?
asciilifeform: so, let's take the malcontents of europe circa 1849.
mircea_popescu: fuck you, you're a nail. whether you drive or bend, you're getting hit.
cazalla: au beginning to cut interest rates today
asciilifeform: more courage would have made a difference ?
asciilifeform: or - coordination.
asciilifeform: and knowing what the hell they're doing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean after the austrian monarch was deposed ? in a negotiated peace ?
mircea_popescu: everyone got paid in 1848.
cazalla: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=AUD&to=USD just jumped off a cliff too lol
assbot: XE.com - AUD/USD Chart ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dze1XE )
asciilifeform: '48 rather
mircea_popescu: cazalla may be good for exports :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform were you thinking 1907 ? i dun see the 1848 angle in any light.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, maybe, but i read demand for au minerals has tanked too
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking of the mostly failed revolts in fr, elsewhere
decimation: the problem from the rebel's point of view - does his rebellion tend to empower gentlemen planters, or lenin, danton, and their ilk?
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000044.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DzfJYX )
asciilifeform: ^ i would much like to see that mega-portscan happen. it is really the only sane way to generate a proper seedlist.
asciilifeform: random selection of nodes from whole planet.
asciilifeform: zap whatever compartments and cliques may have formed naturally (or unnaturally...) in the graph.
asciilifeform: or are we to believe that a protocol carried 100% in cleartext, on unique tcp port - is not being molested ?
asciilifeform: (proofofwork is not a magical pill against every conceivable form of molestation, only the immediately profitable forms)
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
asciilifeform: note that enemy has all the portscans he can ever wish for.
asciilifeform: enough to eat with arse.
asciilifeform: whereas normal people are stuck wondering how many public btc nodes, and afaik there is not a believable public number anywhere
asciilifeform: nor any believable public data on versions.
Vexual: no versions, only talk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not grasp how one could see the 1848 revolts as failed.
mircea_popescu: decimation the error is to imagine lenin, dalton and gentlemen planters are some sort of ilk.
mircea_popescu: they're not.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how is a portscan sane ?
mircea_popescu: no, the sane way is wot signed seed list.
asciilifeform: well yes
asciilifeform: but derived how?
asciilifeform did not suggest that a node carry out the scan!
mircea_popescu: derived by "here is the ip of my pogo"
asciilifeform: but that it be performed, now and again, as a scientific enterprise
mircea_popescu: sure, but a scientific enterprise in no way related to generating seedlists.
asciilifeform: ip of my pogo << that'd mean having these identify selves to one another specifically
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: it's what deedbot is for, among other things
asciilifeform: and introduces a central point of choke
mircea_popescu: nope.
asciilifeform: (to whom, precisely, are they to speak?)
mircea_popescu: hm?
asciilifeform: say i were to prepare a crate of pogos today
mircea_popescu: ok.
asciilifeform: whence should they look for seeds ?
decimation: asciilifeform: looks like we are gonna have to invent our own dns :/
mircea_popescu: they should look for seeds in their config file.
asciilifeform: but what is to be found there ?
decimation: asciilifeform: blockchain telegraphy?
asciilifeform: i will not know where the contents of the crate will be plugged in
asciilifeform: decimation: that needs a blockchain!
asciilifeform: decimation: catch22
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not your job to know!
asciilifeform: well, when filling the crate, what is to be placed in the configs?
mircea_popescu: whosoever wants to run one looks at our list, or if not at whatever list he feels like.
mircea_popescu: nothing.
asciilifeform: so these are not working nodes out of the box.
asciilifeform: should have specified.
decimation: should the nodes ship with a 'cannon' blockchain?
asciilifeform: canon?
Vexual: torrent of data
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, they are working out of the box.
mircea_popescu: if you buy a coffee grinder it does not work out of the box unless pre-filled with beans ?!
asciilifeform: to backtrack, my earlier suggestion was to ship them with a basic list (a few hundred addrs)
asciilifeform: derived via port scan.
mircea_popescu: fuck democracy.
asciilifeform: i.e. random sampling of planet
asciilifeform: not for 'democracy' but for 'nothing-up-me-sleeve'
mircea_popescu: the fact that someone has a port open matters about as much as the fact someone scribbled something on github/wikipedia/we
asciilifeform: (term of art from crypto world)
asciilifeform: it's like collecting random sample of water from sewer
asciilifeform: sometimes - done
mircea_popescu: there is no burden that i can conceive where one's held to ship with prefilled config files.
mircea_popescu: irrespective of what the consumer may have come to expect.
asciilifeform: well then user has to fill it up.
mircea_popescu: uness you're shipping them to your mother, in which casse, put there w/e you want to put there.
mircea_popescu: of course.
asciilifeform: for some reason i thought we were still thinking in the 'gifts to gurlz at parties' train of thought
Vexual: most noders will ahve interetz
mircea_popescu: we were, yes.
mircea_popescu: so you expected to get gurls address and ship directly ?
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: well ?
asciilifeform is a firm student of 'the best machine is no machine' and like the solution of not even having a solution to the 'what seeds' thing
asciilifeform: however this leaves the 'what seeds' question open still.
mircea_popescu: the solution is perfectly there. here's the hole. here's a peg you may put in there. or else stick your own cock or a bottle of coke
asciilifeform: but there are 1000 holes, and one cock
mircea_popescu: why one cock again ?
pete_dushenski: scoop for superbowl viewers at home: http://www.contravex.com/2015/02/03/meta-metastasis-or-how-a-dancing-shark-jumped-the-shark/
assbot: Meta-metastasis, or how a dancing shark jumped the shark. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/16p47gY )
asciilifeform: well, perhaps not one, but... 7? (therealbitcoinfoundation)
mircea_popescu: ok... ?
pete_dushenski: did anyone else see right through the meta-sharks ?
asciilifeform: but presumably we aren't trying to build a closed parallel universe
asciilifeform: with only our nodes
pete_dushenski: and now dinner time, cheerio!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not specifically. we don't really care.
mircea_popescu: once bootstrapped nodes talk to nodes, what.
Vexual: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?pli=1#inbox/14b4daf267842035
Vexual: dang
asciilifeform: l0l
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y0svixmS4w
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: outside-world addrs will not spontaneously appear in a cliquegraph
mircea_popescu: vice-versa.
asciilifeform: so we sit, waiting for all-comers to plug in? sure.
mircea_popescu: clique appears in outside world.
mircea_popescu: that's the idea isn't it
asciilifeform: ^ werks
mircea_popescu: an actual backbone for the bitcoin txn
mircea_popescu: i don't see the letter dns servers perceive any need for putting my fucking ip in their list anywhere.
asciilifeform gets idea
mircea_popescu: it's lightweight, large and dependable. all the qualities the dns letters don't actually have.
mircea_popescu: well, they are dependable, but still.
asciilifeform: 'muhammed will not go to mountain, let mountain go to muhammed'
mod6: basically wedged at 168,000: just waiting for it to error out.
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: this is pretty fucking weird mod6
mod6: yeah. really weird.
Vexual: ascilifeform: you'll consult satoshi?
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-YCwARjLLA
decimation: even if we want to start a backbone of little pogos, it won't be easy to keep track of ips
decimation: how many of pay for static ip services?
mircea_popescu: think about it : if it won't be easy to keep track of ips it follows it's no longer a chokepoint.
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rDWEMZG0lE
mircea_popescu: it really is better designed dns.
mircea_popescu: (also bear in mind these aren't really supposed to ever power down)
Vexual: duly noted
mircea_popescu: an' with that, i bid you a good night!
decimation: perhaps the node can walk jurov's turdatron for specially marked (and signed) emails
asciilifeform: decimation: turdatron is a central point of failure
mod6: this is strange, last like 5-6 times i got wedged at 168,000 it errored out pretty quickly (like the snippit in the matrix doc), but now, taking a good while...
trinque settles in for a few hours of deedbot hacking
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has the right idea - deliberately underspecify the seed list
asciilifeform: those of us who choose to run public nodes - can
decimation: do nodes query other node's connections?
asciilifeform: decimation: as part of the traditional protocol, yes
decimation: ah, well that might work then
decimation: !down decimation
trinque: maybe when the deturdulation is all said and done, the act of programming against the thing can be improved as well
mod6: still no error?! wth
trinque: select id from transaction_output except select output_id from transaction_input
trinque: magic! the dream of the 70s!
asciilifeform: trinque: this is after nubbins` prints the book
trinque: sure
mod6: well, sooner or later this turd is gonna fail
trinque: I look at this api and say "surely there are not this number of core abstractions..."
trinque: the fuck is this?
mod6: i'll put together some log snippits when it does
trinque: rdbms is for modeling problems; best tool there is for that
trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke
trinque: "sorry database, I don't know the data I want by name. You're supposed to tell me that..."
trinque: I think I'll just give deedbot an out to spend and when it's depleted it's done, insert another please
asciilifeform: trinque: chisel is not simply a very thin and unpleasant hammer.
asciilifeform: no matter how many times abused
trinque: the problem with that approach is splits
trinque: *the problem with not recalculating all spendable outs each time and then picking one
trinque: which, is one confirmation even enough to deal with that?
trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork?
trinque: asciilifeform: rdbms is the surgical one, I hope
trinque: now I understand why some idiot did a "crypto coin in couchdb"
trinque: not like couchdb is any worse than any other of these
trinque: turns out a lot of the code we wrap these kv stores in looks a lot like shitty constraints, shitty transactions, shitty referential integrity, etc
trinque: but that should be reinvented each time because speed
fluffypony: trinque: the worst is when they create a "fast, distributed key-value store" and then a couple of years later they get pressured into adding "fully atomic transactions" which ends up needing consistency, and so that becomes "full ACID support", and then fast-forward a few years and you have them inventing a "SQL-like query language"
fluffypony: and they're two steps away from having re-invented an RDBMS
trinque: fluffypony: yeah, the things ether are useless or are shitty SQS
trinque: *SQL
trinque: and when you're working on something that potentially involves the wealth of goddamn kings...
trinque: lets not invent a database poorly as part of the problem
fluffypony: "but WaffleDB is so much faster than mysql!" - which is a great argument if you're counting pageviews or storing log entries
asciilifeform misread as 'Waffen DB'
trinque: heh I like the line from the "mongo is webscale thing"
trinque: about writing to /dev/null because obviously that'd be insanely fast
fluffypony: 100% in-memory, never spools to disk
fluffypony: just don't ever restart
trinque: the whole document store thing too, that's just looking at the net, accepting it as gospel
trinque: then saying well fuck, since documents are right, obviously, lets do that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 252150 @ 0.000391 = 98.5907 BTC [+] {4}
fluffypony: asciilifeform: "waffle" is my go-to when I talk hypotheticals...WaffleCoin, WaffleOS, WaffleDB
mod6: i guess maybe one other time it ran a long time like this until it ran out of memory and blew its brains out
trinque: fluffypony: there'll be one eventually
fluffypony: no doubt
fluffypony: then I'll have to stop using the name
trinque: "inventing" a new "database" is just like farting out an altcoin these days
trinque: nevermind the 40 years of research that culminated in modern rdbms
asciilifeform: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D86C3s )
asciilifeform: ^ interesting
fluffypony: at least when they "invent" a new database they can invent silly architecture without caring about cryptography...the amount of retarded cryptography in the altcoin space is scary
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: phoundation claims their 512 hardseeds are selected therein
asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/7b879d3493e5b51c60522f71657941bd62e29334/contrib/seeds/README.md
assbot: bitcoin/README.md at 7b879d3493e5b51c60522f71657941bd62e29334 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1D86D7A )
mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there
trinque: fluffypony: when I finally learned lisp it was the same feeling towards every other scripty language
trinque: who in the fuck let these bastards steal fire from the gods, and why wasn't I told about this?
asciilifeform: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0FPDE7Y.txt )
fluffypony: lol
mod6 bed
fluffypony: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-elite-meet-secret-island-bilderberg-style-retreat/
assbot: Bitcoin Elite to Gather on Secret Island for Bilderberg-Style Retreat ... ( http://bit.ly/1D87w03 )
fluffypony: lulzy
trinque: fluffypony: bilderberg is right
trinque: why don't they just invite the phoundation to the real one
fluffypony: lol
fluffypony: they're not cool enough
trinque: they can discuss how best to attach bitcoin to the side of a sinking ship
fluffypony: BarnacleCoin
fluffypony: no no wait, BarnacleChains
trinque: heh
asciilifeform: jurov: for shame.
asciilifeform: jurov: i post a mega-study of phoundation's nodes and your turdatron swallows it
asciilifeform: jurov: without so much as a burp.
asciilifeform: now,
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/this_is_lame.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/16ps5J3 )
asciilifeform: ^ because who knows when he'll wake up
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
asciilifeform to sleep
Vexual: gnight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XklVahMDm1A
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g12f7uDIGZc
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCGbNFFqxS4
punkman: there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up.
punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?"
punkman: granted, I'm not in drone country and the paranoia feels a couple decades early.
cazalla: i dunno, "goodbye" sounds a bit prophetic, i'd be getting the tinfoil hat and shotty, parachute at the ready
punkman: (actually says "Goodbye", not translated, with a somewhat american accent)
cazalla: mebe telemarkets and auto dialer couldn't find anyone free at the call centre to put you through to
cazalla: telemarketer
punkman: cazalla: yeah most likely
punkman: !up The20YearIRCloud
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $40 before Mar 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1096/ Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 26(Y):74(N) by weight. Total bet: 8.65433047 BTC. Current weight: 34,443.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $30 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1112/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.99351 BTC. Current weight: 85,744.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1649 @ 0.0009468 = 1.5613 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 159 @ 0.00637779 = 1.0141 BTC [-]
jurov: uff.. three discarded msgs from btc-dev?
jurov: kakobrekla: is there a database? or any way to query http://w.b-a.link by keyid?
jurov: !ident assbot
jurov: !ident jurov
jurov: ;;ident jurov
gribble: Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@impr-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net', is not identified.
jurov: i have found this but it won't work with short key ids: http://w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4/json
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zafFiK )
jurov: nah, querying by key id is bad idea anyway
punkman: jurov, any idea why my msg was dropped?
punkman: jurov, re:database http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-01-2015#983005 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2015 05:25:29; kakobrekla: whoever was asking for wot db dumps http://files.bitcoin-assets.com/wot/
jurov: and i was trying things like http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=wot+database
assbot: 8 results for 'wot database' - #bitcoin-assets search
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3350 @ 0.00094179 = 3.155 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was not able to determine why sig is bad. pls pastebin the original
jurov: punkman: your email client wordwrapped the clearsigned text, i was able to undo it
jurov: everyone PLEASE either wordwrap text before signing, or attach it as file so that email client as no chance to munge it (you can leave empty body then)
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2015#1004094 <<< transactions usually make it accross chain forks ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 05:11:42; trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork?
chetty: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :)
punkman: ^ if the block the bundle tx ends up in disappears, I think best idea is to make new tx
punkman: fukken wordwrap!
punkman: can't even find option to turn it off.
jurov: which client?
punkman: squirrelmail
mod6: wow this thing ran all night wedged @ 168,000: but didn't die http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=384mvxXm
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DARIRw )
mod6: wtf
mod6: anyway, later.
mod6: oh yeah, i stopped it for now. i'll mess with it later tonight.
davout: re e-mail word-wrapping -> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2822#section-2.1.1
assbot: RFC 2822 - Internet Message Format ... ( http://bit.ly/1DARU33 )
davout: what looks like the correct solution -> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2045#section-6.7
assbot: RFC 2045 - Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) Part One: Format of Internet Message Bodies ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAS76v )
jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of user interfaces that display these messages which may truncate, or disastrously wrap, the display of more than 78 characters per line" OMFG
punkman: just piles of stupid
jurov: if attached, it will get converted into quoted-printable or such. but few email clients are able to do it with body, too
jurov: imma using the phrase "it got disastrously wrapped" from now on
davout: kek
PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website.
coderwill: Hello, good day/evening all!
PeterL: good morning coderwill
coderwill: thanks
PeterL: usually "good day" is what you say when you leave, not with hello ;)
coderwill: hehe, I know a few latin americans that might disagree w/ that sentiment.
PeterL: using English?
coderwill: that's an interesting question - I would say yes, but that I debate whether or not that is actually English or a regionalism
coderwill: If you ever read or listen to Alan Watts this topic gets really subjective. :)
punkman: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/01/29/you-can-earn-13000-a-year-selling-your-poop/
assbot: You can earn $13,000 a year selling your poop - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/18KhJUR )
PeterL: jorov: if messages get disastrously wrapped, could your program automatically unwrap them?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00038822 = 2.4846 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132800 @ 0.00038242 = 50.7854 BTC [-]
artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections.
PeterL: which language are you writing it in?
artifexd: Go
lobbes: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html << I see y'all went for the 'hacker-green-and-black' after all
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z7YzgA )
jurov: lobbes, have you seen http://mpex.co/?r=1 ?
jurov: PeterL: asciilifeform's email had about hundred lines. if you make me a code that can unwrap them right in polynomial time...
mircea_popescu: trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke << you don't understand the power ranger power range!
mircea_popescu: berkley db WAS NO GOOD because not modern enough. key value stores not a problem. those are good.
mircea_popescu: trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork? << things can't end up detimestamped in the first place.
mircea_popescu: tx is either in the main chain or in the mempool. the forks/orphans/we are irrelevant.
lobbes: jurov: aha, I had not for some time. I'm digging the new look
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: "but WaffleDB is so much faster than mysql!" - which is a great argument if you're counting pageviews or storing log entries <<< yeah, which is a great argumrent too bad it's irrelevant.
jurov: http://blogs.enterprisedb.com/2014/09/24/postgres-outperforms-mongodb-and-ushers-in-new-developer-reality/ incidentally.
assbot: Postgres Outperforms MongoDB and Ushers in New Developer Reality « The Postgres Blog from EnterpriseDB ... ( http://bit.ly/1AomvD3 )
jurov: "new reality" my ass.
mircea_popescu: no, it is. new "web" reality.
mircea_popescu: ie, the reality produced by the "consensus" of the "community" of "developers" on twitter.
thestringpuller: jurov: yea. that was a really big story when it first came out. A lot of people started migrating of mongodb
thestringpuller: d00d in office used to joke about the mongodb coffee mugs they had given us
thestringpuller: "I'm going to drill holes in the bottom of all the mugs to illustrate a point"
mircea_popescu: mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there << no. look at that shit!
mircea_popescu: there are 1433 nodes with 90% uptime
jurov: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/24JKHJD.txt )
mircea_popescu: there are 323 nodes with 99% uptime.
mircea_popescu: and just 60 with 99.9% uptime.
thestringpuller: MP where are you getting these stats?
mircea_popescu: people keep derping about uh oh, 7k nodes. BULLSHIT. we're down from 270k to 61.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller http://log.b-a.link/?date=03-02-2015#1004122
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 05:21:45; asciilifeform: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
mircea_popescu: and whilke this massacre's going on, "uh oh, 20mb blocks, it will work fine"
mircea_popescu: gavin's mother on black cocks will work fine.
jurov: https://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/201011111141.jpg lil' gavin
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AonRha )
mircea_popescu: "economic lolexperts in webeconomies have reviewed the fact that they have nfi what's what , what matters and where to look"
mircea_popescu: according to the five year old, the burning house is no immediate cause of concern, he has his teddy.
thestringpuller: MP how was this list created?
thestringpuller: or is that ALF question?
asciilifeform: jurov: if i attach it as attachment, will it display as normal message in turdatron (special case rule ?)
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller go to -dev ask sipa
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: see this_is_lame.txt
mircea_popescu: why ask me!
jurov: yes, clearsigned texts display directly in archive
asciilifeform: ^ that in fact was the letter that turdatron swallowed
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/this_is_lame.txt << copy
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1uUg9V0 )
jurov: ok, lemme see diff
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i read that off the mail list ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no you didn't
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you read the 'go for tea' letter
asciilifeform: (there's a few lines of code from that one in here)
mircea_popescu: what im not halucinating i saw a oh diff similar one ?
jurov: alf, presumably your email client did this:
asciilifeform: 10 whole lines were same, i think
jurov: < 1.33.197.110:8333 1 1422939389 99.99% 99.40% 99.29% 87.54% 74.50% 341734 00000001 70001 "/Satoshi:0.8.6/"
jurov: > 1.33.197.110:8333 1 1422939389 99.99% 99.40% 99.29% 87.54% 74.50%
jurov: > 341734 00000001 70001 "/Satoshi:0.8.6/"
mircea_popescu: why are we calling him alf again ?
asciilifeform doesn't know
jurov: why not?
mircea_popescu: trinque: who in the fuck let these bastards steal fire from the gods, and why wasn't I told about this? << but... http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GreenspunsTenthRuleOfProgramming
assbot: Greenspuns Tenth Rule Of Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1uUgLKi )
mircea_popescu: jurov sure but i thought there was some funny story involved
jurov: !s alf
assbot: 40 results for 'alf' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=alf
asciilifeform: incidentally, i have no idea who sipa is, but does appear to do much of the gruntwork in phoundation's bitcoind
mircea_popescu: o hey good idea. why didn't i think of that!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pieter wuille. one of the more sane people involved.
asciilifeform: looks vaguely east asian in his github icon
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: currently doing something on sillycon funds with gmaxwell as a public whore.
asciilifeform: seems like he wrote most or all of the post-0.5.3 stuff that actually works
asciilifeform: e.g., the stuff i backported
mircea_popescu: yes, a supermajority. bluematt did mopst of the post 0.5.3 testing that's not retarded,
mircea_popescu: and there;'s a coupla more folks i wouldn'
mircea_popescu: t negrate on sight
asciilifeform: uptimes << who is surprised ?
mircea_popescu: who with a clue is ever surprised by the facts of any matter in discussion ?
asciilifeform: by definition, lol
mircea_popescu: but the point is, since some of the brighter young minds on forum have taken to reading the logs, pointing out the plain obvious now and again is god's work
asciilifeform: ergo the experiment described in this_is_lame.txt - probably did not say anything new to the folks here, but may benefit the students
jurov: phoundation's seeds replaced with this_is_lame.txt, distributed
jurov: mircea can do the same to get his email out
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000046.html << ty jurov
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoqAY2 )
mircea_popescu: jurov im reading the logs see why my email died, haven't gotten therer yet but will presently.
mircea_popescu: "All programs have been written, and that program is Lisp. With perfection already attained, implementation is left to the ignorant who do not already know the truth of this." << shit, now i know why i don't code.
mircea_popescu: "solved problem'
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: no no wait, BarnacleChains << win.
asciilifeform: 262474.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: jurov: without so much as a burp. << you knoiw you keep saying this, but it's an email drop. how would you want it to burp ?
mircea_popescu: if it did, how would you hear it.
asciilifeform: it has no mouth
asciilifeform: cannot burp
asciilifeform: but frustrating.
mircea_popescu: short of implementing the phantomcircuit hack and emailing everyone who ever emailed it anythging the whole error log every time
asciilifeform: at least we oughta bake a 'lint' for these msgs
asciilifeform: i'll probably do it
mircea_popescu: punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?" << just checking the line's still live.
thestringpuller: !s this_is_lame.txt
assbot: 1 results for 'this_is_lame.txt' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=this_is_lame.txt
TomServo: I noticed a fully-synced node maintains its IRC connection. I was curious if that's desirable, and also if that means you're made a candidate to fill other nodes?
jurov: asciilifeform: how do you propose the lint would work? run on saved mailbox?
mircea_popescu: TomServo the latter yes.
jurov: in any webmail, you can save the finished message as draft and then try to gpg verify the text. that should take care of 90% of above problems
mircea_popescu: jurov http://pastebin.com/eYVsfbYD << pastebin of original
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 The enclosed 1386667 bytes f - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoubVU )
mircea_popescu: chetty: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << better than darmkail and other bs at any rate.
mircea_popescu: punkman: ^ if the block the bundle tx ends up in disappears, I think best idea is to make new tx << no. there's exactly no reason for deedbot to have block awareness. if the tx disappears, it should not notice.
mircea_popescu: so that we will.
mircea_popescu: jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of <<< specification made to accomodate the implementation. welcome to the world of braindamage, or where do you think civil engineers that flunked go ? computer science!
mircea_popescu: "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever.
mircea_popescu: PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website. << not substantially different from the "scan the web" notion. more democracy.
mircea_popescu: a node of unknown provenance doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: would you eat a chunk of cheesy-looking substance you found on the sidewalk ?
trinque: punkman: "droned" << heh, I just got a call from a weird number saying they received a package addressed to me
trinque: ...anthrax!
mircea_popescu: why then would you read nobody's opinion in the newspaper or try to digest a random chunk of online nonsense.
trinque: mircea_popescu: and apparently http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GreencoddsTenthRuleOfProgramming
assbot: Greencodds Tenth Rule Of Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1AowacR )
mircea_popescu: jurov btw i can guarantee my client did no skullduggery to the email. i have the outgoing saved as sent by the mta.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i am suprised list has nothing under 0.8
thestringpuller: does this mean phoundation is trying to hijack nodes?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it
mircea_popescu: 's not a very good list.
thestringpuller: Iterpret the results for me
jurov: mircea_popescu: your pastebin doesn't verify
mircea_popescu: eh get out ?!
jurov: show raw, saved it and... bad sig
mircea_popescu: jesuswtf
mircea_popescu: well... resigning
mircea_popescu: ok my client is doing some unspecified mangling somewhere wtf.
mircea_popescu: jurov resent, with signed material attached as file. still nothing there apparently.
mircea_popescu: artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections. << sounds pretty good.
asciilifeform: jurov: lint would be run locally. by the rest of us.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ErikNaggum << check that out.
assbot: Erik Naggum ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoA2uh )
mircea_popescu: funny how things change. "PaulGraham's evil twin." ? rly ?
asciilifeform: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project << would have to be present at every hop of the message. a direly implausible project, sadly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just let it SEND what you want.
mircea_popescu: you know ? i'm all ready to go back to bang paths over here.
TomServo: he railed against using period << ?!
mircea_popescu: just as long as i get back the control, i see no problem with !derp!herp!router!alf
asciilifeform: "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever. << the space scuttle was, according to legend, sized so that the typical american bridge could safely pass it. likewise legend holds that this was just short of true, and many bridges (not to mention roads) had lives considerably shortened by the scuttle
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean the shuttle ?!
asciilifeform: aye
mircea_popescu: it lands at an airport like everything else dunnit ?
TomServo: "Whoever decided to use the semicolon to end something should just be taken out and have his colon semified. (At least COBOL and SQL managed to use a period.)" heh
asciilifeform: the tanks
asciilifeform: had to travel
asciilifeform: for political reasons - full
asciilifeform: then it was assembled and launched
asciilifeform: every time.
asciilifeform thought this was commonly known
asciilifeform: perhaps not outside of gringolandia
mircea_popescu: oh oh
mircea_popescu: TomServo i dunno why he's so strung up on it ; semicolon is perfectly fine way to end things ; it also happens to be the traditional english ending of "separable entities that are for ulterior reasons strung together".
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
TomServo: Came across that looking for a tirade against the period - asciilifeform any help?
asciilifeform: TomServo: can't recall such a thing
the_scourge: rehi
the_scourge: need to put a warning about needing a cloak in this chan :)
asciilifeform: we used to have one
asciilifeform: then ddoser took a vacation, it sorta vanished
the_scourge: um... recently? as in the last 5 hours? :)
the_scourge: i JUST got ddos'd once last night and twice earlier today
asciilifeform: then we can presume he's back in business.
the_scourge: yes very much so
mircea_popescu: more like back in hobby.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: didja measure?
the_scourge: and it was one of the more impressive ones i've ever seen, and i used to see top quality ones on a daily basis
the_scourge: asciilifeform: it totally saturated at least 2 full gigabit fibre terminii
mircea_popescu: packet count is more on point.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: from packet dumps taken by myself and at least 2 other folks here, appears that mr. ddos uses mainly 'amplification' method (ssdp, ntp)
the_scourge: but what's most interesting is the shape of the traffic and the packets... i was plugged into a sub-campus and it would appear that it was using dynamic discovery protocol over http for amplification (using any device that supports it)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73600 @ 0.0003716 = 27.3498 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: it is actually a bit hard to take a proper capture of ddos (as in, all or even most of the packets) with common equipment
the_scourge: yes it was ssdp, i couldn't remember (brain fart and i'm home chilling)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: the network guys at $my_client are actually top-notch
asciilifeform: well sure
asciilifeform: but that's what makes it a dos
asciilifeform: overwhelms routing equipment
the_scourge: they brought a wireshark dump over to my desk
asciilifeform: you end up with, at best, a statistical sample
the_scourge: asciilifeform: oh yah totally
asciilifeform: the_scourge: would you care to post it publicly ?
the_scourge: i didn't ask for the USB stick
mircea_popescu: cool story bro.
the_scourge: this is a paying client. even though everything pointed to me being targeted, i still didn't want to make more noise than i already had
asciilifeform: we have at least two posted by regulars - one that was entirely ssdp (from buggy upnp in consumer routers) and another that was mostly ntp (likewise misconfigured embedded electronics)
the_scourge: oh weird
the_scourge: this definitely had ntp as well
asciilifeform: the_scourge: i've discovered that cellular modems, at least in the way they are operated in usa, are immune to this type of ddos.
asciilifeform: funnily enough
asciilifeform: (they are nearly useless for everyday life)
the_scourge: and sadly i was on a VERY VERY VERY large very flat network with more class A IPs than ... almost any other entity on the planet. and lots of buggy ssdp routers all over the place 'cause of the (phys) architecture
asciilifeform: the telco drops anything at all coming your way that isn't part of a tcp connection you established earlier
jurov: mircea_popescu: the email is out, after a bugfix (to account for application/pgp mimetype properly)
mircea_popescu: this is how it's supposed to work anyway
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yah we ended up having to use another contractor's LTE just to try to google some of the fingerprints
mircea_popescu: jurov yay!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000047.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoEjhi )
the_scourge needs to get LTE of some kind but is a bit of a nutter about that kinda shit
mircea_popescu: jurov uh but how do i fin the file ?
mircea_popescu: o nm lol
mircea_popescu: found it.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: LTE << what country ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ty!
mircea_popescu: !up sergiohlb
the_scourge: asciilifeform: UK for most business needs
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news, i dreamed up a new licensing model which teh foundation and us generally might wish to consdier.
mircea_popescu: ima write it up and lookingforward to comments.
the_scourge: also, north america sometimes. but right now i just need a UK dongle that has chinese backdoors instead of american
the_scourge: do the russians make LTE hotspots? they've started making smartphones with e-ink, but it's a shame i didn't hear about it until after i went off of smartphones entirely
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'sparkfun corp.' sells a lte simcard good for 6 months, ~80 usd
asciilifeform: usa-only iirc
asciilifeform: the_scourge: huawei corp makes lte modems
asciilifeform: !rate the_scourge 1 new blood, seems like a reasonable fella
assbot: the_scourge is not registered in WoT.
the_scourge: assbot is a liar
asciilifeform: get in wot the_scourge
asciilifeform: rly?
the_scourge: i thought i was... one sec
the_scourge: oh wait, i've only set up my gpg key, do i need to associate a bitcoin address as well?
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: gpg suffices
asciilifeform: are you logged in under same nick ?
the_scourge: 16:45 <gribble> You are now authenticated for user the_scourge with key 300A9F6A3D0564B4
the_scourge: ^ yes
asciilifeform: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php?nick=the_scourge
assbot: #bitcoin-otc gpg key data ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoFYDR )
PeterL: aha, needs to be assbot
asciilifeform: kakobrekla, is the_scourge in the new assbot wot ?
the_scourge: oh of course
the_scourge: do i just do the same dance with assbot?
the_scourge: the docs made it seem like assbot used the otc WOT
PeterL: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
assbot: irc_bots:assbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1vn4pjB )
asciilifeform: the_scourge: not long ago, kakobrekla finished a rework of wot. so there are a few hiccups
asciilifeform: try the '!register' function
the_scourge: with.... gribble?
asciilifeform: with assbot
asciilifeform: see the earlier link
chetty: That’s right — 77 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds in the new survey could not name even one US senator in their home state
asciilifeform: chetty: expect this number to reach 99+ as the residual fucks given re: political apparatus waft away
chetty: more than nine in 10 of the 18- to 34-year-olds plan to vote in the 2016
trinque: how hard is it to pick a favorite color out of two?
asciilifeform: chetty: a good many otherwise well-informed, educated folks in late ussr could not name very many muppets either
chetty: well it has rather ceased to matter, get screwed by the red or by the blue, who cares
asciilifeform: folks enjoy the ritual of 'choosing' left- or right-handed thread on the screw
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seems like your post was originally rejected by turdatron because it did not contain a machine-readable signature for the tarball
asciilifeform: your statement that said tarball must not be used except for research should have gone into the signed message body
asciilifeform: turdatron wants a machine-readable standalone sig (just the --pgp-- block) for every attachment.
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it's not in the signed body where did you get it from ?
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150203/header-bitcoin-src-21may2012_8b34d7ebf677c0fb6434ef87c18492857af9e391.asc
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2rFDD )
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000047.html << i think jurov slipped this through manually. there is no message body, signed or otherwise
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2rNDa )
jurov: yes, on it
jurov: it should show body
asciilifeform: jurov: that's not the problem i'm talking about. rather, the fact that turdatron could not possibly have processed this message on its own.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no message body cause when i put it in the body it got mangled to hell
mircea_popescu: anyway, explain to me like i'm slow, there's a problem with the thing as presented ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: turdatron, as originally built, expects a pattern like this: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000040.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2s5dh )
mircea_popescu: you get a hash of the file and an explanation of purpose in the signed attachment, seems reasonable ?
jurov: mircea_popescu: it is supposed to show directly the clearsigned text that was used to validate the message
asciilifeform: there is (optionally) message body; then, for each attachment, there is a detached-sig
mircea_popescu: jurov oh as opposed to attached ?
jurov: regardless of any other attachemnts
mircea_popescu: oh i c
mircea_popescu: jurov can convention be that if body is empty 1st attachment = body ?
mircea_popescu: (somehoiw i thought this was the case)
asciilifeform: i think jurov is working on that one
mircea_popescu: aha okies.
mircea_popescu: poor jurov, he's getting stretched here.
jurov: yes, that's what i'm doing. it just insists that application/pgp is not text
asciilifeform: this was, afaik, the only known answer to the mutilations
mircea_popescu: well it is not text, technically, because you can also send it as binary.
mircea_popescu: should i force clearsigned material be saved as .txt ?
jurov: wait, you can clearsign in binary?
mircea_popescu: nope. but i could have, and the file'd have been .asc too
jurov: yes, saving it as txt would help. but best to fix it for once.
mircea_popescu: (i imagine it goes by file extension)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000046.html << comments/thoughts ?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2t25m )
the_scourge: will assbot search long keyids on keys.gnupg.net?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not surprised in the slightest ?
mircea_popescu: it's not me trying to build a parallel, closed universe.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: purpose of experiment was to demonstrate the fact of.
asciilifeform: (said universe)
mircea_popescu: yup. and in that it succeeds.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: who was asserting that there were nodes < v0.8
asciilifeform: the_scourge: no one.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: but i was digging for proof that a) there are < 0.8 nodes in the candidate list b) none were selected
asciilifeform: and found it.
the_scourge: oh yah i see
asciilifeform: punkman et al: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000048.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2uqEV )
the_scourge: why would they select such a node? surely no reason other than "this operator is keeping up to date" would need to be given
asciilifeform: the_scourge: if, say, it were a random selection
the_scourge: reading
asciilifeform: the_scourge: the only genuine oddity is that the selection process was not described
asciilifeform: or, at the very least, i was not able to find such a description
asciilifeform: in their published material
asciilifeform: if it is in there after all - i'd appreciate a pointer.
the_scourge: right
the_scourge: i'm being a mong with this !register command
asciilifeform: my current working hypothesis is that the 512-list contains 'stratfors' or similar animals
asciilifeform: little burrowing underground animals
the_scourge: i've given it my long key id... it says invalid (so quickly i have a hard time believing it even did a search)
asciilifeform: kakobrekla ^
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1637 @ 0.00096996 = 1.5878 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ask kakobrekla when he awakens
asciilifeform: he is the author of assbot
the_scourge: cool thanks
the_scourge: idk man i appreciate your sleuthing and keep it up but holding the btc foundation's feet to the fire will NEVER work
asciilifeform: what means 'work' in this context
asciilifeform: ?
the_scourge: like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you will find that one of the more interesting ideas we run with in #b-a is that public opinion isn't a particularly interesting concept re: bitcoin
asciilifeform: it's rather like public opinion of the atomic bomb
the_scourge: well i take it your goal is to prevent nefarious hijacking of bitcoind, done in such a way that everyone upgrades and long after it is realized that the network is resultingly compromised?
asciilifeform: not especially enthusiastic, but it doesn't keep the neutrons in
the_scourge: which, the seed nodes would be a good vector for such a thing
the_scourge: ok, but public opinion will determine who uses what version/implementation of bitcoind, and a seed node can be packaged with said distribution
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2015/a-new-software-licensing-paradigm/ <
assbot: A new software licensing paradigm pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2vwAL )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes mod6 ^ does that sound like something teh foundation might support ?
asciilifeform: the protocol is sufficiently well-designed, and vintage nodes sufficiently abundant (esp. among miners) that said hijacking presents little more than an annoyance at present (see mod6's experiment last night.)
the_scourge: is the experiment discussed in last night's logs?
asciilifeform: but it does not follow that, if you can hear mice in the walls but have not yet discovered their turds in your cupboards - mice are harmless and ought to be let alone
asciilifeform: the_scourge: yes
mircea_popescu: <the_scourge> like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago << public opinion only matters in fiat backed worlds.
mircea_popescu: in gold backed words, that game wasn't lost, nor was it ever played.
the_scourge: right so you're saying nefarious things are being attempted but the attempts are hopeless even within the main branch of blockchain
mircea_popescu: part of why we're here is exactly that : making paper money impossible -> making the welfare governments impossible -> making the "public oppiunion" impossible -> undo the numerous errors of the 20th century.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: right, i was talking about the world at large. you can stick a fork in journalistic integrity, it's done
the_scourge: er, maybe i blame the mob more than their journalists... whatever
mircea_popescu: you can also stick a fork in "representative democracy" equally done.
the_scourge: 20th century? a bit myopic? otherwise i agree
mircea_popescu: jurov o splendid, i got a mod notice and everything. i like how this works.
mircea_popescu: !up Jrum
the_scourge: wanting to undo the new deal and sufferage etc only makes you a slightly redder republican, or a backbencher tory
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
mircea_popescu: im neither. i'm a fucking guelph. that's a white flag you see behind, and the battle is for imperial immediacy not bs.
the_scourge: ok, so other than the microscope paper (which is a bit high-level) what exactly can/should/could be done with bitcoin itself? why not just skip to working on the other stuff and let the existing bitcoin maintainers work out their shit. there are plenty of people who oppose the foundation already
asciilifeform: which is the 'other stuff'
the_scourge: imperial immediacy ... gonna have to look that one up :)
asciilifeform: particle physics ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i propose name 'piratic license'
the_scourge: asciilifeform: comms, hardware, 'corporate' governance, sovereignty techology
asciilifeform: or, if you prefer something more orcish, the hajduk licence.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: this means bitcoin in much the same way that computing means semiconductor.
the_scourge: admittedly, that last one consists of 'shit that already exists' - small unit tactics. but a lot of it is high-tech and needs work
asciilifeform: bitcoin - the actual bitcoin, that, contrary to popular notion, still functions - is the semiconductor for all of these.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, let them come up with that.
chetty: when did Erik Voorhees get to be a 'VC' ?
mircea_popescu: name should be based on the actual world not on the current
mircea_popescu: chetty perhaps once stalin gave him a license ?
the_scourge: a victoria cross ... omg
asciilifeform likes names based on distant pasts
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the notion that anyone works on bitcoin or in any manner relevant to bitcoin outside of this channel is laughable on its face.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'vc' around here typically refers to the american financial term
the_scourge: cool, can you clarify? i like prose so feel free to link
asciilifeform: 'venture capital'
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i know i make good joke!?
asciilifeform: it's more sad than funny
asciilifeform: though i prefer 'vulture capital'
chetty: well last I heard he was a convict, so I guess we know who is greasing his palm
mircea_popescu: never went to trial did he ?
asciilifeform: chetty: iirc he was fined in a civil court
chetty: plea afaik
asciilifeform: more like a traffic violation (with bigger numbers) than a criminal matter
asciilifeform: but - ianal!
asciilifeform: in ru world this is called 'administrative penalty'
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: can you elaborate on your assertion? i don't like making assumptions
chetty: riiight, and I am sure he will now be a good boy
asciilifeform: (possible criminal complaint if you don't pay, and referred to collections apparatus as a civil debt)
mircea_popescu: the_scourge which one
the_scourge: "the notion that anyone"
mircea_popescu: seems pretty plain.
the_scourge: ok well define 'bitcoin' then in the context... like it or not LOTS of people are working on lots of implementations which lots of people are using/will use
the_scourge: so if we're talking about the main fork of the chain, then... idk you have to ellaborate
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you may be aware that bitcoin network does not function by 'vote' of the nodes.
asciilifeform: but in a rather different way
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/a-new-software-licensing-paradigm/
mircea_popescu: define bitcoin ?! any and all blockchain based, mining enforced, elecrtronic currencies.
kakobrekla: the_scourge see pm.
mircea_popescu: the particulars are discussed in http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IGVwSi )
mircea_popescu: the generals are that you can have only one monetized good
mircea_popescu: all the others are derivatives of its monetization, they can't have their own.
the_scourge: i read that article, it seemed to be saying that smaller POW protocols would always be subject to hardness attacks
mircea_popescu: more generally, that nothing other than bitcoin can really exist
asciilifeform: see also the works of tom schelling
asciilifeform: (game theorist)
mircea_popescu: or whatever, five centuries of macroeconomics discussions.
asciilifeform: n centuries of geometrywank < euclid
mircea_popescu: they just hold some sentimental appeal for me :)
mircea_popescu: sorta like redditard'd go "see collected manga works" or w/e.
the_scourge: right, but for the issue at present: POW will always be vulnerable to hardness attacks, because there are bad?unlikeable?big? people in the world who can do a lot of work and ruin the fun for everyone, even if we ignore their fork of the chain. btc got very lucky in that it slipped under the radar, but that will never happen again in history. the wardens have been alerted
the_scourge: am i ... doing it justice? so far?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin stable state is where > 50% of all energy generated on planet earth goes to mininmg.
the_scourge: right
mircea_popescu: and it won't be "the wardens"
mircea_popescu: the wardens are dead. the invisible hand however... myeah.
mircea_popescu: you can always derive a profit by attacking unmonetized goods, or rather ; by exploiting the false claim of anyone putting forth an unmonetized good as money.
mircea_popescu: as soros proved for the benefit of the bank of england.
mircea_popescu: which is why i don't particularly mind gavin trying to create a scamcoin, nor whatever "public oppinion" support he may muster.
mircea_popescu: more money is always welcome.
ben_vulpes: ah jesus
ben_vulpes: over a thousand log lines
mircea_popescu: good stuff too.
the_scourge: !rate kakobrekla 1 helped me register
assbot: the_scourge is not registered in WoT.
ben_vulpes: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1NY6W1Q.txt )
ben_vulpes: humbug.
the_scourge: wut
asciilifeform: the_scourge: gotta be in wot and logged in to press that button
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
the_scourge: yah ... i thought i was (again)
kakobrekla: err, there is no session to be 'logged in'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there;s no logged in
asciilifeform: else every sp4mz0r would be rated $maxint
mircea_popescu: damned.
asciilifeform: well authenticated
mircea_popescu: mnop :D
kakobrekla: neg
mircea_popescu: yay!
kakobrekla: stfu
the_scourge: !rate kakobrekla 1 helped me register
assbot: You must be rated before you can rate.
kakobrekla: aha!
kakobrekla: see, it works.
the_scourge: yay!
trinque: m-my blockchain... 'tis to the 18th of the present month!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 200 @ 0.0056089 = 1.1218 BTC [-] {9}
the_scourge: grrr it was UX issues ... tmux buffers + whitespace.... more excuses, more excuses
mircea_popescu: trinque pogo ?
asciilifeform: !rate the_scourge 1 new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/2eb0c3750b5032de
kakobrekla: asciilifeform each auth-worthy command gets otp
trinque: mircea_popescu: having read logs it seems like everything I was worrying about regarding timestamp-transactions is moot
mircea_popescu: ye
the_scourge: !rate kakobrekla 1 top man
assbot: You must be rated before you can rate.
the_scourge: er apparently having a 1 isn't good enough to give it away
kakobrekla: he must !verify first
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.the_scourge.1:97ebe29eec56db08f42ab0fbddfb4b60375c862c3ec0412baac3b1e9b0f39e28
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently
trinque: ben_vulpes and I were talking about blockchain forks when last we hacked it up, but I guess that does not mean transactions will have to be retransmitted?
kakobrekla: now you can.
kakobrekla: the_scourge ^^
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1906 @ 0.00096996 = 1.8487 BTC [+] {2}
the_scourge: !rate kakobrekla 1 top man
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c2b4494d56bfaf0
thestringpuller: so will raising VC capital soon be viewed as a negative sign for a company
mircea_popescu: depends where.
trinque: mircea_popescu: this blockchain is for deedbot
mircea_popescu: trinque a cool
thestringpuller: well sometimes it seems "blah raised x money" and you're like "why do they need that money so badly? Are they having trouble staying alive?"
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you can now self-voice, as described in the assbot manual (message it with !up)
thestringpuller: !up Jrum the_scourge
trinque: I thought I was going to have to re-chew the blockchain up from first funding each time to see whether "new shit had come to light"
thestringpuller: !up the_scourge
the_scourge: uh, i verified but assbot didn't announce it in here...
the_scourge: is it ok to verify in channel or is that too chatty
mircea_popescu: generally you send assbot !up in a pm
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: there is too much serial raising of funds. like its a mental illness or something.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you ever read that crooked timber tyhing about the bezzle was in log yest ?
trinque: thestringpuller: its like a fractured version of central economic planning
mircea_popescu: very good summary of a lot of problems.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if a leprous beggar could rent out space in his necrotic arsehole by the hour, to several clients in parallel, why wouldn't he
mircea_popescu: trinque quite exactly. accidental central planning and laika is alone in the control center.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i have not.
trinque: was talking with someone the other day about how the american system of govt is a shattered sovereign
trinque: I hadn't ever thought about it in those terms before
asciilifeform: trinque: that was moldbug's notion
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: oh i see!
the_scourge: in VC news, maidsafe got 19mil ... wtf
asciilifeform: trinque: he believed in 'conservation of sovereignty' (as if energy)
the_scourge: for a bunch of scottish guys to buy their porridge with... really?
mircea_popescu: http://crookedtimber.org/2013/11/21/ <<> read it. best primer of macroeconomics for noobs i ever saw.
assbot: 2013 November 21 — Crooked Timber ... ( http://bit.ly/1EDJb3H )
trinque: asciilifeform: interesting; is he worth reading?
trinque: I've seen him mentioned
asciilifeform: trinque: it depends
asciilifeform: trinque: try reading
the_scourge: trinque: imho, very worth reading
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is this similar to female who rents out womb for having babies for infertile couples?
trinque: k
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: neh, that's honest work
mircea_popescu: the_scourge who are you anyway ?
the_scourge: i've just finish reading all of his non-bitcoin and non-economics posts (those are two things he ... isn't that brilliant with)
the_scourge: thestringpuller: also, probably best to avoid parallel womb renting
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: well what do you want to know
mircea_popescu: the suspicion being that perceived brilliance in other fields may be more the newspaper memory hole than his own merit.
mircea_popescu: the_scourge what do you do for a living, and what sort of education do you have basically.
the_scourge: erm well i work for myself doing ... what is interesting/profitable. was market data kernel tuning, then perl coding, now more 'devops' stuff
adlai: "market data kernel tuning"?
adlai: kernel as in trick?
the_scourge: in another life it was all systems programming etc but then i decided to go to the UK and join the Royal Marines... really really long story
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: leprous beggar sounds more like undead beggar in your instance then.
the_scourge: kernel as in... the linux kernel
adlai doesn't see the connection between "linux kernel" and "market data", but if that's interesting/profitable, glhf
mircea_popescu: i c.
the_scourge: and for education... fuck that seems like a long time ago but among other things i did a masters in ancient philosophy, languages and regilion. studied greek and aramaic and history as well
the_scourge: to be honest i just did the studies to get away from computers for a few hours a day.... also to answer the big questions in life
the_scourge: meh
mircea_popescu: !rate the_scourge 1 легальные резиденты
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/299ccbef20419f24
the_scourge: adlai: oh, i should have said there was custom hardware involved. and 48 core bulldozer CPUs (bad decision, but made before i arrived)
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.the_scourge.1:33e0ab5465f7642a6e1ae13ba6bbb73a29cd777a865ced5b2dfb9dd7a56197ab
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: легальные резиденты
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l!
the_scourge: hence, the kernel tuning. csets etc
the_scourge: um what's the best way for me to find out what that says
thestringpuller: ask alf
asciilifeform: ask ru dictionary
thestringpuller: legal residents or something says google
thestringpuller: #amiclose ?
mircea_popescu: quite.
thestringpuller: ^- that's what she said
the_scourge: right so translation helped. and i knew there was a reason i still keep a urxvt instance running, even though it's horribly bloated
the_scourge: *didn't help
kakobrekla: as requested, have some lulz http://dpaste.com/1AZP655.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2Ceqg )
thestringpuller: Qntra material
the_scourge: adlai: to be honest my time doing the market data, i was more focused on getting an inside education on the more... interesting things in the financial markets, than stacking my CV with kernel/ASIC achievements. and in that regards i came out quite well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120650 @ 0.00038193 = 46.0799 BTC [+] {2}
the_scourge: have avoided certain markets ever since :)
thestringpuller: cazalla or BingoBoingo awake?
mircea_popescu: aww coin telegraph goiung teh way of what was the one they kept pushing, that was supposedly big ? also coin something
ben_vulpes: <punkman> [] there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up. << calling to find people who pick up
mircea_popescu: coidesk!
ben_vulpes: <chetty> [] email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << gnus, part of emacs, has worked for probably longer than i've been alove
ben_vulpes: alive*
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: in your soros example, what is the unmonetized commodity? surely not the gold
mircea_popescu: the pound.
the_scourge: sorry, i was going to ask earlier but... shit happened
the_scourge: right
the_scourge: the pound gets 2/3 qualities, close but no cigar
mircea_popescu: at the time the pound was on the receiving end of german rape.
the_scourge: i know the story
mircea_popescu: aite.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] why are we calling him alf again ? << Ascii Life Form?
mircea_popescu: oh oh!
mircea_popescu: good1
the_scourge: i was thinking about this the other day ... some smart people say that if there is not secondary use (no matter how minor, compared to the total volume) then something cannot be monetized
the_scourge: and... that assertion is true until proven false
mircea_popescu: that assertion is false.
mircea_popescu: paper dollars have no secondary use.
the_scourge: nothing has ever been monetized successfully that couldn't be turned into swords or necklaces or circuitboards or compressors (or eaten but i'm going back a ways now)
asciilifeform: the_scourge: what's the secondary use for a benjamin? cocaine straw ?
ben_vulpes: toothcoin!
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: they're not monetizable (paper dollars) - just like the pound
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: the pound was mini-usd at the time eh.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: why, then, were cowrie shells demonetized ?
the_scourge: nothing holds their value other than the force of the issuer's military. i served in one of them
asciilifeform: the_scourge: but why does a particular army demand to be paid in one thing and not another ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a word in your ear about "cowrie shells" : it is possible they were ever used for money. it is also possible libertard anthropologists created the pious fraud of "retarded non-white peoples also have some semblance of intelligence".
the_scourge: because they're brainwashed into supporting a certain nation (the issuer)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik the post-slavetriangle use of said shells is a reasonably proven fact
asciilifeform: earlier? can't say
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the way i understand, they were an early proxy slavecoin.
the_scourge: there is a lot you can learn about finance by signing up to be a uniformed tough guy for one of the big two, with your head already fully unplugged
asciilifeform: the_scourge: as a boy i was fond of reading ungodly quantities of ww2 minutiae. and i remember marvelling that the luftwaffe had to pay xxx reichsmarks, for, e.g., a v2 rocket. 'why did nazis have to pay for things,' i asked.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that merely the fact of exchanging "Shiny" for "cunt" might well be reported as "monetary shiny" by some people and 'loads of fun whee' by some others.
the_scourge: from personal experience, it's so fucking annoying though the best of us could only last a short while on the inside
asciilifeform: 'couldn't they just command it delivered'
asciilifeform: but then you learn that other aspects of physical world exist
mircea_popescu: they did, kinda. cowries played the role in africa that opium played in china
mircea_popescu: ie, earlier european governments understood the problems of unbalanced trade, and invented balancers.
mircea_popescu: but weren't stupid enough to accept the balancers as their own currency.
the_scourge: unless someone can remind me what the point of the original shells comment was, we drop it :) ?
the_scourge: the reich is interesting... oil was a big issue for them
asciilifeform: the_scourge: we have mats and adlai here, also former (or possibly reverse) army men in various corners of usa vassal empire
the_scourge: yah, i would hope putin has his historians working overtime right now
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you might enjoy reminiscing with them
adlai: "reverse"?
asciilifeform: reserve
asciilifeform: damn
adlai: ah yes
asciilifeform cleans keyboard and fingers
the_scourge: oh yah apparently mats is predisposed right now i tried pinging him a while ago
asciilifeform: the_scourge: point was the 'monetization' hypothesis
the_scourge: adlai: i'm one of those damn tea drinkers. well actually i'm not but w/e
asciilifeform: the_scourge: that king cannot simply order arbitrary objects monetized, or forgo the use of money entirely
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: will respond on seeds and licenses later
adlai still hasn't gotten paid for his reserve duty, but doing this requires physical presence at various government bureaus that keep excessively sane hours
asciilifeform: (to the latter, there are some possible exceptions, see the ancient inca empire)
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] 'vulture capital' << i'm surprised you're not making the easy poo joke here too
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yes, yes they can. hitler couldn't because his guys were getting beaten by our guys
mircea_popescu: lol "yes we can'
mircea_popescu: glwt.
the_scourge: you can monetize ANYTHING with enough mind control and military. post bretton woods, that's all we've been doing!!!
asciilifeform: the_scourge: better example - 1918, lenin's boys experimented with cancelling money.
asciilifeform: didn't last long.
asciilifeform: because it was pure idiocy. just as proclaiming a switch to edison's dc mains grid would've been.
adlai: the_scourge: what did you serve in?
the_scourge: adlai: reserve? were you in at some point?
adlai: three years
the_scourge: full time?
adlai: "various corners of usa vassal empire" = IDF, in my case
the_scourge: asciilifeform: right, that's probably a stretch too far from reality. but USG and HMT and BoE have been doing the fiat thing for a while now, and that's just one step less crazy
adlai: so yes, three years, full time, and reserve duty for the extent of my healthy adult life (unless/til i move out of the country)
adlai: !up the_scourge
mircea_popescu: hard times in the international diabetes federation :D
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'the fiat thing' ever tries, if you notice, to walk the fine line between scam and outright expropriation/dekulakization
the_scourge: oh cool i was going to join the IDF but they said i was too old
adlai: the_scourge: now that mp gave you legal residency, you should be able to !up yourself in PM with assbot, and that lasts as long as you're connected to the channel
the_scourge: which was retarded i was working on a kibbutz as a lifeguard and i was tearing up guys on their weekends on runs/workouts
nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> <mircea_popescu> [] why are we calling him alf again ? << Ascii Life Form? <<< nod, gw
nubbins`: ;;google a.l.f.
gribble: ALF TV | The Official Unofficial ALF Fan Site!: <http://www.alftv.com/>; ALF (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(TV_series)>; ALF (TV Series 1986–1990) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090390/>
the_scourge: adlai: thanks, done
adlai: expecting anything short of retardation from a bureaucracy the size of the idf is hopeful at best
the_scourge: adlai: what unit were you in? you can reply in hebrew, no worries
adlai: http://dpaste.com/1AZP655.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2EJsE )
adlai: pastefail
adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7fj97-UckI
assbot: MLRS - STEEL RAIN/BLACK RAIN - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2EI86 )
asciilifeform: adlai: american version of 'katyusha' ?
adlai: very, very, very americanized
adlai: more bomblets! more rockets! firing faster! from a bigger vehicle! with better treads! etc
asciilifeform: for 75x the price
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in their defense, they can actually use it
adlai: eh well.
asciilifeform: i could used a golden toilet too
the_scourge: adlai: i don't even know what unit that is
the_scourge: i was interested in shesh shesh tesha at the time :D
adlai: oh to be so young and patriotic again!
mircea_popescu: haha you were ?
adlai: mlrs is just a regular battalion in the army, but it used to be a special unit like that one... so there was this massive cognitive dissonance, where the higher up the officer, the more elite they thought their unit was
adlai: but the soldiers themselves were just your average shmuck
the_scourge: or shayetet13 - i wasn't young or patriotic ... and i wasn't when i got a good slot in the british military. i was having the same thoughts as moldbug, but instead of blogging about it i decided to become as deadly as possible in as short amount of time as possible
the_scourge: and actually it was about a year before he started blogging
adlai: not having actually been in such units, i'm speaking from impressions of people who were - but it seems as though the army trains people to be useful to the army, and any personal benefit that people got out of these units was mainly due to their own efforts to better themselves
mircea_popescu: that's pretty much what it is.
the_scourge: adlai: 1. i tried very hard before, during and after to get as much tactical benefit as possible. 2. you're right, and in retrospect i could have done equally well by making shedloads of money and shooting a lot, training a lot, hiring and doing private training
the_scourge: but that's REALLY fucking expensive and at the time the income streams were trickling a little
the_scourge: less than normal
adlai: heh well some kinds of training, you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them
adlai: dunno which legends you've heard about what they do to 'break' people in elite units
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00094379 = 2.3595 BTC [-] {11}
the_scourge: adlai: for those things, if you can make yourself do them, then you're better off than if batshit insane men force you to do it, under threat of bodily damage
the_scourge: but again, before, i didn't even know what those things were. it's more than just crawling through broken glass for miles. there are a lot of subtle nuances
mircea_popescu: <adlai> you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them << not if you're a woman, wink wink
the_scourge: it's interesting how the israeli culture generally knows about some of these nuances. the bootneck culture lives and breathes them and i don't think i could have bought that for any price
asciilifeform: the_scourge: describe, for the benefit of folks in barbaric faraway lands, some of these nuances.
the_scourge: it's the ability to keep your dignity no matter what.
adlai isn't sure 'dignity' is what's at stake
mircea_popescu: the israeli dignitary force.
adlai: asciilifeform: i've heard stories ranging from having your nose broken, to being strung up like a pig over an open fire, to having your 'captors' alternate between putting your gun barrel up your ass and in your mouth - all of this to get you to 'break' and reveal a secret
the_scourge: so, they do things like, you spend 2 weeks on an excercise, march 12 miles into the 'theatre' with 65lbs on your back, dig holes in the ground all night, and then lie in them (saltwater) and defend them, and then do full dignified kit inspection, ready to do a multi-unit ambush/assult all night
adlai: the_scourge is describing approved exercises. i'm describing legends about what happens in elite units outside the approval and regulation of the main army bodies.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: had to travel << Land on one side of the country ride to the other on occasion even.
the_scourge: adlai: right, for SERE training, it gets a little weird
adlai: as far as approved exercises go, the worst i had was a week spent with a single day's food ration, most of which was spent in full NBC gear
asciilifeform: adlai, the_scourge: all of these sounds like traditional military exercises
PeterL: mircea_popescu: "You do not have, nor you can ever acquire the right to use, copy or distribute this software" << should be "nor can you ever"
the_scourge: erm yah what bootnecks do it public knowledge i mean bear grylls does videos about the weird stuff
mircea_popescu: PeterL right you are.
adlai joined the army right after a major push for increased transparency in the ritualized torture of new recruits, so the crazy stuff only happens in crazy units these days
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i was trying to get to the nuances. not the shocking shit
asciilifeform: but who, exactly, finds the ritual torments of recruits - shocking ?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: and i'm doing a bad job of it, to be honest i've never been asked and i've never tried externalizing it
adlai: asciilifeform: mothers.
asciilifeform: adlai: that'd be it
the_scourge: asciilifeform: tormenting nods - not the shocking stuff
asciilifeform: in ru army it is not uncommon for new recruits to be beaten to death
asciilifeform: no one is entirely surprised
asciilifeform: (afaik)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: such 'training' is orthoganal to tactical success
mircea_popescu: rather uncommon by now.
trinque: the_scourge: but directly aligned with being enslaved eh?
adlai: this still happens occasionally, but whenever it's in a regular (non-elite, anybody-can-join-and-who-asked-you-anyways) unit, these days, the unit gets disbanded, officers decomissioned, etc
asciilifeform: the_scourge: tactical success, as i think it well known, is not the only thing expected of a soldier
the_scourge: trinque: not sure if it's a mechanism or a byproduct ;)
asciilifeform: there is also the mechanical aspects of obedience - or unit cohesion, if you like
adlai: well and if you want to prepare your men to die in battle, they better die in training first, no?
asciilifeform: but everyone knows this
trinque: the_scourge: seems the enslavement of soldiers has to do with the necessity of keeping them loyal/taking orders
mircea_popescu: not nearly as orthogonal as all that, for that matter.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: this is true of many places. i was lucky in that i was in a place where they glorified individual thinking, as much as possible
trinque: or... why would so many listen to so few were they not slaves?
nubbins`: asciilifeform so how 'bout running a node on the NEW raspi ;p
asciilifeform is not a soldier, but can hardly imagine an army having more use for 'individual thinking' at the platoon level than a dog has for beets
the_scourge: trinque: you are (generally) correct, i was just saying in the russian army, i think some of the weird shit was a result of the slavery
trinque: nubbins`: put a quarter in the swear jar
adlai: drill sergeants on individual thinking: "if there's any doubt, there is no doubt", which eventually became "if you started thinking, stop"
nubbins`: duod you could compile it for win10.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: if you'd like to run node on cpu with closed turdcore running closed turdblob at all times, at 3x the cost of 'pogo' - be my guest
asciilifeform: and for win10 too while at it.
adlai: there's 10 now?
adlai needs to get out of emacs someday
nubbins`: ehh who knows
nubbins`: raspi folks are touting it
mircea_popescu: winten!
nubbins`: now sure if it's "here" or "coming"
nubbins`: who the fuck cares anyway?
asciilifeform doesn't
the_scourge: trinque: for an example of what i mean, watch the russian throat slitting vidoes... not tactically strong
nubbins`: imagine someone using windows on an embedded device
nubbins`: imagine making that choice
asciilifeform: nubbins`: phun phact. usg, incl. all branches of military, love win-ce.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: because 9 wasn't good enough!
trinque: having been late to every party in the last decade, msft will now reinvent itself by being late to free!
nubbins`: asciilifeform no big surprise there
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: trinque the thing is tho, by now "free" is wholly captured.
asciilifeform: '9' did not happen because, apparently, 'windows 9' was pattern-matched by various existing code as being in the windows 95, 98, 'me' class
trinque: the_scourge: I think it's a bit of a problem to expect anything other than barbarism from those trained to execute it at industrial scale
nubbins`: i have a handheld gps unit that runs wince
asciilifeform: and therefore skipped
mircea_popescu: so they have little choice
the_scourge: asciilifeform: what's your take on the linuxino boards?
asciilifeform: microshit's denials only cemented the truth of this rumour
nubbins`: it's so shitty you actually have to remove the hyphen
asciilifeform: the_scourge: have not tried personally
the_scourge: other than the chipset, pretty good architecture though?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'pogo' was suggested (iirc, i suggested it) purely on account of cost (and the fact of chassis and power supply being included in the cost, pre-assembled)
asciilifeform: 18 usd for 'sata' version, 13 without
asciilifeform: try beating that.
fluffypony: ok
fluffypony gets out his whip
the_scourge: asciilifeform: wait, what? what are we making requirements for?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: experiment with a minimal-cost bitcoin node
the_scourge loves specing out low-power applications
asciilifeform: running therealbitcoin.org node.
the_scourge: standalone or like that coffeewarmer thing?
asciilifeform: standalone
asciilifeform: mains plug, ethernet.
the_scourge: how would you get an asci into a pogo
the_scourge: does it have sata?
asciilifeform: this is not a theoretical thing, it is happening now
the_scourge: er and that... yah
the_scourge: woah *wanders off to find a wiki somewhere
nubbins`: node, not mining unit 8)
asciilifeform: ('pogoplug' is a small 'arm' device originally sold as a minuature nas. see #b-a logs.)
nubbins`: hm, did i order a pogo?
nubbins`: !s buying from:nubbins`
assbot: 318 results for 'buying from:nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buying+from%3Anubbins%60
adlai: using !s to extend your memory of others' words, sure. extend your memory of others' actions, sure. ... but of your own actions!?
nubbins`: oh, no, i did. right on.
the_scourge: yah i was going to buy a pogo for nas work at home. but then i spent $way_too_much_fiat and built a xeon one instead
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: more like a traffic violation (with bigger numbers) than a criminal matter << Basically this is my read of the Erik situation. Govt settled because all they could get was the headline and token cash.
nubbins`: adlai it's all a fog
adlai finds himself wishing for !s in irl conversations now
the_scourge: ok i'm looking on that site for a wiki... where can i find out > why nodes, and not miners?
adlai: it's gotten me grepping a lot more though, which is good
nubbins`: the_scourge because mining at the personal level is retarded, but running a node is not.
mircea_popescu: adlai the same process ruined me for books. i'm like "fucking paper no grep"
the_scourge: what's the benefit to running a node? having the whole blockchain?
asciilifeform cheats by maintaining a grep-able copy of most books
nubbins`: the_scourge among other things, yes
asciilifeform: to go along with the dead tree
mircea_popescu: the_scourge generally the advice given to noobs is to read the logs for six months to a year.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: greppable?? in what format?
mircea_popescu: think of it as a sort of "crawling through glass".
asciilifeform: the_scourge: generally, ascii
nubbins`: ;;google saw needle pit
gribble: Saw II Needle Pit - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbviirWLCQg>; Saw 2 (5/9) Movie CLIP - The Needle Pit (2005) HD - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CAQ0iZKP08>; SAW II making of The Needle Pit Scene - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx472xleOOQ>
asciilifeform: (well, utf-8. a good deal are in non-latin script)
nubbins`: ^ think of it as this
mircea_popescu: whatever you think of it as, stfu and go do it now.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs
asciilifeform: what's the benefit to running a node? << start with the fact that if you haven't a node, you aren't using bitcoin.
adlai: my book-buying process (when i'm in an actual bookstore and can flip through the book) is made or broken by the quality of the index
nubbins`: incidentally, that scene is why i stopped watching Saw movies
the_scourge: i'm a bit more interested in asciilifeform's book buying process right now
mircea_popescu: adlai still. even people with good indedices, what are they going to put in there ? can't make it half the book.
asciilifeform: without node, you are stuck asking someone with a node to use it for you (or, more commonly, he merely pretends to)
the_scourge: yah
asciilifeform: the_scourge: learn ru, bookz immediately become something you get for free, instantly, and in grepable plain ascii.
the_scourge: last time i was involved, people had the same concerns, but on the miner side of things
adlai: mircea_popescu: right, it's more that i'll find some really interesting book, get all excited about reading it, and then change my mind when i see a three page index
asciilifeform: adlai: obligatory naggum >>>> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3242392313780400@naggum.no.html
assbot: Re: "Well, I want to switch over to replace EMACS LISP with Guile." - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1x8GkHh )
mircea_popescu: guile!?
nubbins`: from street fighter
asciilifeform: ^ post was not actually about guile
asciilifeform: (naggum fought a long usenet war against 'scheme' fanatics. 'guile' is a scheme interpreter.)
mircea_popescu: anyway.
adlai: the only good thing i have to say about scheme is that it's abstruse enough that sometimes college students pay me to write it for them :)
mircea_popescu: complex specs are in no sense better. the only thing a very complicated spec shows is that the designer did not understand the overwhelming importance of not specifying.
mircea_popescu: that's the main task of spec work : avoiding doing anything as much as humanly possible.
the_scourge: adlai: 'college students' < doesn't tell us anything
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's how you end up with 'the spec is the implementation' crapolade
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope!
adlai: the_scourge: "people who work a part-time job so they can fund another person's part-time job doing their homework"
asciilifeform: not that a spec arrived at via the usual idiot committees is any better
mircea_popescu: that's how you end up with small programs that do clear things and without a userbase that "has come to expect"
asciilifeform: but the only proper spec is a) actual spec b) fits in head c) because was created by actual person
asciilifeform: (or at most, two or three)
mircea_popescu: i defy you to find a spec anywhere in use in the shitstack today that manages to not include things it really has no business specifying.
mircea_popescu: and the problem is even more visible in dictionaries (as definitions are simply the specifications of words). never is it the case a dictionary manages to not include extraneous nonsense in the soup
mircea_popescu: take the http://dictionary.cambridge.org definition of dictionary :
assbot: Cambridge Free English Dictionary and Thesaurus ... ( http://bit.ly/1ApcRQM )
mircea_popescu: "a book containing the words of a language alphabetically arranged, with their meanings etc"
mircea_popescu: leaving aside that there's no etc allowed ; A BOOK ? why the fuck is it a book.
mircea_popescu: it's not a book, it's a list. and it doesn't have to be alphabetically sorted.
mircea_popescu: dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations."
adlai: a little relevant, and then i must break scalpl manually if it won't do so of its own accord: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOXQo7nURs0
assbot: Experience the power of a bookbook™ - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Apd6Ls )
mircea_popescu: there's not even any need to specify it actually contains definitions. the quality of the definitions distinguishes a good implementation from a bad one and that's all.
asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/g9JHAAjp
assbot: #b-a student excerpt - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1x8Kr6j )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
asciilifeform learns to explain things possibly
mircea_popescu: i see little in there other than "agend desperate to create personal raport as attempts to control teh public venue aren't working for ununderstood reasons that look scary."
the_scourge: i wish i had saved my credit for you asciilifeform
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't much care if all the n00bs are american generals. let'em learn a little.
mircea_popescu: sure, no broblem.
asciilifeform: i only dislike them when they're annoying and illiterate.
mircea_popescu: earnest effort never killed anyone. except of course in soviet russia.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: true but we all bring different things to the table, i could write a book on NRx history, philosophy etc: that is proof of hard work done
nubbins`: hey now
nubbins`: we all don't bring something to the table
mircea_popescu: "could" is usagitalk.
the_scourge: which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical
mircea_popescu: nubbins` except lasers.
nubbins`: o o right
the_scourge: does assbot have a glossary? for things like usagitalk?
punkman: yes it's called logs
asciilifeform: the_scourge: the concept of 'proof of work' as it pertains to bitcoin is a very well-defied, mechanical thing. as in, machine-verifiable.
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations." <<< why does it have to be exhaustive?
adlai: !s jargon
assbot: 24 results for 'jargon' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jargon
trinque: asciilifeform: this student appreciates the pasted lesson
asciilifeform: the_scourge: if you do not know this, you are far behind in your studies
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the only thing that makes you go "this isn't a fucking dictionary" is if you look for a word that should be in but isnt
asciilifeform: *defined
nubbins`: by that measure, i've got 3,000-page beasts that are not dictionaries
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: note that they usually explain their limitations. "A dictionary of 1900 London argot" won't contain nixonisms
nubbins`: and a page from a word-a-day calendar with the word "grok" defined, that occasionaly *is* a dictionary
adlai: my dad has not one but TWO dictionaries that require a magnifying glass to read the copy
mircea_popescu: however, the absence of "chthulhu" from there will be regarded as prima facie proof that the word in question was in fact not 1900s london argot.
adlai: old school OEDs
[]bot: Bet created: "BTC to rise vs USD in February" http://bitbet.us/bet/1114/
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: jargon studies? i did read the jargon file front to back if that's what you mean. long long time ago though
nubbins`: ;;google dictionary of newfoundland english
gribble: Dictionary of Newfoundland English Online: <http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/>; Alphabetical Index: Dictionary of Newfoundland English: <http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html>; Search: Dictionary of Newfoundland English: <http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d8ction.html>
mircea_popescu: and now im off to trilemize the dictionary/spec discussion, if anyone wants to be in ask now.
adlai: the_scourge: generally doing a log search via !s or http://search.bitcoin-assets.com will help you find context for words or ideas that seem out of place
assbot: Search the #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: mp quote me saying some people don't bring shit to the table
nubbins`: it helps to add context
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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sure
mircea_popescu: lol
nubbins`: try to incorporate the word "sleeveen" into the article as well
mircea_popescu: why sleeveen ?!
the_scourge: adlai: thanks i'll start doing that :)
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: it's in the dictionary of newfoundland english
punkman: asciilifeform: satoshi's miner is valuable for the same reasonas the rest of that piece of shit << is it valuable? I thought the goal was to replace satoshi's hairballs.
nubbins`: and generally when one is called a sleeveen, one does not know how to take the insult, due to being wholly unfamiliar with its definition and usage
asciilifeform: punkman: replace -after- fully understood.
asciilifeform: before can be understood - must be fully pinned down.
nubbins`: ive seen members of parliament call each others sleeveens with impunity because the speaker of the house didn't know wtf it meant.
BingoBoingo: From the New Oxford English Dictionary database https://twitter.com/Blacktric/status/562442413520982016/photo/1 (Maybe exaggeration of source)
assbot: Sarah butts pulls up a chair at the sissy faggot crossdresser tea party. http://t.co/CImMm6APi9
asciilifeform: punkman: try to understand why the pedigreed 0.5.3 has special status.
punkman: asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo?
punkman: (compared to 0.10)
BingoBoingo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B84yZODIgAASyIc.jpg:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ApgupE )
nubbins`: rotophobe sounds better
asciilifeform: punkman: try reading 0.10 some time. much of the original mechanisms - mutilated beyond recognition, or missing entirely.
asciilifeform: it isn't just a matter of crud removal, after 0.8 or so
kakobrekla: punkman alfs argument is coins were worthless hence lesser chance of molestation
asciilifeform: unless satoshi, the enemy, or both - were soothsayers
asciilifeform does not include voodoo in engineering analysis
punkman: well that's what we want to do, mutilate the hell out of it. just in different direction.
asciilifeform: punkman: i suspect that 'gold standard' will remain largely satoshi-based for a very long time.
kakobrekla: seems more like purification instead of mutilation
asciilifeform: as in literally, any node that would result in a kg or more of Au equiv. lost if it were to hiccup
punkman: as for moving satoshi cpuminer to different binary, it's gonna need to use the "getwork" avenue, so I'm guessing that'd be a significant rewrite
kakobrekla: have it built in, but optionally as separate patch?
asciilifeform: punkman: hence why i suggested letting it alone for now.
punkman: you know what'd be great? some sort of "bitcoind c++" reading guide.
asciilifeform: punkman: moving it to separate src file? sure
kakobrekla is unaware of how badly scattered the mining code is
punkman: for visual inspection https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin/commit/a2745ff00110400f50966f92f8d155583eb0a3d8
assbot: first pass mining-snip · a2745ff · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ApiWMW )
asciilifeform: punkman: gnarly. not only cppism but 'boost', 'bdb'
mircea_popescu: there we go.
punkman: asciilifeform: yeah separate file seems like a good idea
asciilifeform: does somebody feel like writing a similar graphical visualizer for our patches ?
mircea_popescu: <punkman> asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo? << because it's actually before the "bitcoin is important" point of no return.
asciilifeform did try to explain this in the devlist
asciilifeform: ( http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000048.html << for record )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Apjkv4 )
thestringpuller: "C++ 99.5%"
asciilifeform: 0.5% silica gel.
thestringpuller: "C 0.5%"
thestringpuller: lolololol!!!!!!
asciilifeform: and food dyes.
jurov: no corn syrup?
mircea_popescu: hey, is hfcs on spirulina a vegetarian breakfast ?
punkman: why not
punkman: there is that whole "may contain traces of pig cocks" thing, but meh
nubbins`: "The U.S. National Library of Medicine said that spirulina was no better than milk or meat as a protein source, and was approximately 30 times more expensive per gram."
mircea_popescu: spirulina ?
nubbins`: 10/10 would buy
asciilifeform: sea cabbage ?
mircea_popescu: reminds me of that organic paper story.
nubbins`: spirulina seems to be straight-up bacteria
nubbins`: hey, we use 100% real paper
mircea_popescu: i thouyght it was an algae
mircea_popescu: The algae has actually been tested and successfully grown in human urine at 1:180 parts. After 7days, 97% of NH4+-N, 96.5% of total phosphorus (TP) and 85–98% of urea in the urine (ca. 120-diluted) were removed by the microalgae under autotrophic culture (30 °C).
mircea_popescu: this is just a conspiracy to drink more piss, isn't it.
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: it's an "algae"
nubbins`: altho apparently this is a misnomer, as it's actually prokaryotic
BingoBoingo: "cyanobacteria" to be specific
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/mps-rant-on-specification-work-as-to-why-all-dictionaries-suck-a-challenge-for-you/
nubbins`: we're reaching dangerous levels of fake bio knowledge
asciilifeform: this is just a conspiracy to drink more piss, isn't it << 'eat recycled food! it's good for the environment, and ok for you!'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2187 @ 0.000944 = 2.0645 BTC [-] {12}
asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2015/02/ubs-groups-cio-wants-to-throw-bitcoin-under-the-buss/#comment-9224 << l0l
assbot: UBS Group's CIO Wants To Throw Bitcoin Under The Buss | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DuEO73 )
asciilifeform: although what is this preoccupation with 'the unbanked'
mircea_popescu: guess.
mircea_popescu: lecherous if impotent old men have a comparable preoccupation with "the unfucked"
asciilifeform: it's a usg newspeak term that encompasses not only paupers, who have no business in a bank regardless, but also folks resisting bezzle who consciously stay out of bank
asciilifeform: so rather it's like... does english even have a word for 'unchristed' ?
asciilifeform: 'heathen' ?
asciilifeform: from perspective of priests
the_scourge: spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D
asciilifeform: in the sense of 'folks we haven't gotten a good shot at christing yet'
mircea_popescu: incas.
asciilifeform: некрещеные
the_scourge: as for it being more expensive... what a retarded thing to say. even for USG
asciilifeform: aha, i found it...
asciilifeform: unchurched.
trinque: that has to be a new term
trinque: like "unbanked"
asciilifeform: trinque: it isn't
the_scourge: no, unchurched is common parlance
adlai: unchurched, noun: a computer which does not use church numerals
the_scourge: it's part of a jargon from a very different community
asciilifeform: 'webster' claims 1657 as first known usage.
trinque: bleh
asciilifeform: adlai: l0l!!
mircea_popescu: isn't that unchurned ?
the_scourge: Who is Irdial? good argumentation style he has
asciilifeform considers getting paper dictionary out of its crate
the_scourge: except for the end. kinda gets distracted by shiny misdirection :)
BingoBoingo: <the_scourge> spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Must go in mouth. Even raw I digest fine.
BingoBoingo keeps paper dictionaries on shelf
BingoBoingo: <the_scourge> spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Also even though "complete" spirulina in low in some more important amino acids
the_scourge: BingoBoingo: second point, valid. however, getting the meat in your mouth is 1/10th the battle
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BingoBoingo: How hard is carve animal, insert pieces in mouth?
the_scourge: i mean, the digestive effort
the_scourge: basically spirulina, the advantage is you have to break down one cellular wall and you have mitochondria, meat is a MUCH harder process
BingoBoingo: Digestive effort is easy. Small intestine gets pumped full of all the right enzymes to process animal protein
the_scourge: and hey i'm of the "catch and eat it raw" line of thought as well, it's just that from a scientific look, spirulina does require a lot less investment
BingoBoingo: Mitochondria is not everything. with steak you pop cellular membrane and start tearing a part long chains of proteins
the_scourge: when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain
thestringpuller: oooh yay biochemistry
the_scourge: i'm not disagreeing with you. i eat lots of meat. when i lived in a freer countries, i shot most of what i ate. you're preaching to the choir here but there are huge benefits to some of the more accessible forms of protein
thestringpuller: ATP is my favorite biomolecule of all time
BingoBoingo: the_scourge> when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain << More likely shrunk as meat became nutrient fire or not. Most carnivores have short GI tracts because meat digest faster than comlex plant matter. Cell walls are a bitch to break.
the_scourge: BingoBoingo: yes, moving to meat was a benefit in itself
thestringpuller: ATP Snythase is my favorite protein by far
thestringpuller: obligatory: https://chubbyriceball.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/atp-synthase2.png
the_scourge: thestringpuller: get on topic. if you like biochemistry, tell me what is the cost of breaking spirulina cellular walls. now :)
thestringpuller: it's not about energy exerted in that case it's about the cost to build the proteins/enzymes to break them down :P
thestringpuller: mitochondria are the shit cause they make ATP so efficiently
thestringpuller: and its a fucking mystery why the fuck they even exist
the_scourge: in animals, we know
the_scourge: ever heard about babies who don't have good mitochonria during antenatal development? not good
thestringpuller: i was talking about evolutionary. the selection process of how they end up in cells
thestringpuller: or at least "complex cells"
the_scourge: which is why we're going to get 3-parent babies soon. which is bullshit it's just a mother, father + a different woman's mitochondira
ben_vulpes: <the_scourge> mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs << some lol. the point is that you've gotta pick up the variety speak, and that comes from reading logs in near-real-time for six months, not "some" or "a few" or "the ones i found interesting and/or easy"
BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: ah thanks that makes sense. lurking is necessary anywhere you go. i thought he meant dead logs
ben_vulpes: those help too.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes also in the news, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhyWeHateLisp
assbot: Why We Hate Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/18LfXTk )
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: if you do it right, you'll find yourself searching through the dead logs for further context.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: news?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: the_scourge: Not a bad log day to start on http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-12-2013#411276 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-12-2013 13:34:41; bitesak: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1s9g0c/mtgox_is_doing_its_instant_replay_bug_again/
the_scourge: also in the news, ward migrated his wiki to fedwiki
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the logs are actually linked in the topic. and the variety speak is http://trilema.com/2013/youre-gonna-have-to-learn-that-variety-speak/
assbot: You're gonna have to learn that variety speak pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18Lg0Pf )
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: not only fedwiki, but it's also got all sorts of css and javascript
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: scouting around
ben_vulpes: ward cunningham's a cool dude
ben_vulpes: seen it all, still works in the trenches
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: if you know an implimentation of fedwiki that doesn't have js, let me know
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: i don't fuck with any of that stuff.
ben_vulpes: collaborating with randos is for the birds.
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: i've been in on his weekly hangouts a few times, very very cool times
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: dude i was working on it when i still believed in randos. a long time ago
ben_vulpes: i infrequently find myself drinking in his proximity. mostly f(how often i'm at new relic)
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: plus, the technology could probably be adapted for closed communities
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: what's youre connection to newrelic?
mircea_popescu: diff between c2 and fedwiki is that well... fedwiki dun work.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc
thestringpuller: << stop blowing my mind
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: they have an office nearby at which i drink occasionally
mircea_popescu: is that citizen global thing ?
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: It's true. Mitochondria have their own different DNA from their hosts and their hosts use them as a dependency
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: i like the branch and fork model. and we do need a non-code collaboration toolset built around that model. and we know that model works for closed communities, dictatorships and everything else
mircea_popescu: who's we ?
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y << harvard being somewhat useful rather than handing out A's to the females who are best in bed.
ben_vulpes: <the_scourge> which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical << bwahahahat?
thestringpuller: different cellular structures animated realistically, but colorized for distinction
lobbes: I leave to code for an hour and the conversation has moved from grepping, to dictionary specs, to biochemistry. Several of the reasons I love this channel
mircea_popescu: no nudes today tho ;/
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes a whole lot of "hei guise, wheel!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 193996 @ 0.00038159 = 74.0269 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19154 @ 0.00038415 = 7.358 BTC [+]
nudebot: http://ww2.nudesportsblog.com/updates/lesbiansportvideos/elena_nadia_01b_big.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kp8tB6 )
ben_vulpes: to the logs witcha, the_scourge
BingoBoingo: Ah, the weird old days http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-12-2013#411327 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-12-2013 16:09:18; dexX7: looks they are serious with "50 new listings in one year"
mircea_popescu: which meanwhile exploded scam was this ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Hovelcocks
mircea_popescu: o i thought btcetc
mircea_popescu: ;;seen dexx7
gribble: dexx7 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 33 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 5 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <dexX7> i think i can up myself
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: what did you find funny about my PoRealWork comment?
BingoBoingo: So... Ulbricht trial is already done with closing statements...
mircea_popescu: bets on how long jury takes ?
BingoBoingo: Hard to say. Instructions delivered tomorrow. Today was also first day of defense testimony...
mircea_popescu: well if it were easy to say it wouldn't make much of a bet.
BingoBoingo: Right.
thestringpuller: is there a bitbet for if he gets convicted or not?
mircea_popescu: lol that's not hard to say.
BingoBoingo: I'd consider putting 0.5 BTC on under 3 hours. Worried about holdout juror or jurors.
thestringpuller: lol "The jurors are instructed not to look at bitbet" - says the Judge.
mircea_popescu: ima put a btc on "over 6 hours", how about that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'll take that with 1 BTC for under six hours.
thestringpuller: oooh over under
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo make it.
asciilifeform: watch preet let him slip, just to win the bet.
mircea_popescu: yeah right.
asciilifeform: massively-distributed bakshish, lol
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you can even blatantly abuse your journalistic position to make moar comedy gold.
thestringpuller: super retarded judge if bitbet influences the trial
thestringpuller: or more just "powerless judge"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/1FQFE2M
assbot: dpaste: 1FQFE2M ... ( http://bit.ly/1KpaL38 )
mircea_popescu: they still seclude juries neh ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo make it i mean on bitbet
mircea_popescu: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-30/inheriting-grandma-s-house-comes-with-tax-bill-under-obama-plan <<< this is of particular interest to adult bitcoiners.
assbot: Inheriting Grandma’s House Comes With Tax Under Obama Plan - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1KpaSfd )
thestringpuller: they try to, hence what I said about judge in future may instruct juries to stay away from bitbet
mircea_popescu: specifically : if you bought 1k btc at $10, and you die when it's $1000, usg wants about 400`000, in usd.
mircea_popescu: then, should your inheritor sell it when it's $10`000, usg wants further capital gains tax. not on 9k, but on $9990
thestringpuller: sounds like a scam
mircea_popescu: anything to prevent that ol' capital acumulation thing.
thestringpuller: this is why rednecks bury gold here in the confederacy
mircea_popescu: anyway, best gift for bitcoin he could have ever made.
mircea_popescu: i can scarcely comprehend why anyone would leave his heirs anything but btc.
mircea_popescu: it is untaxable, after all.
thestringpuller: cause the executor of the will is a scammer?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: submitted, funding tx sent
BingoBoingo hopes his Austrialian Open bad luck streak ends
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: big fat news, usa is simply moving to the taxation system customary in most of the orcish world - levy exorbitantly high tax, and hope it makes up for spotty collection
thestringpuller: Don't you get sent to jail in the US if you don't pay taxes for X amount of time.
asciilifeform: (mircea_popescu probably knows something about the argentinian tax, even if he has not seen it in person)
thestringpuller: I.e. wesley snipes
thestringpuller: IE Lauryn Hill
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ianal, but it is not the mere act of not paying, but what they consider to be an attempt to weasel out of having the tax assessed or collected, that constitutes the offence in the usa penal code
thestringpuller: that's how they got Al Capone. "Tax Evasion"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform personally, i dun knowmuch an' i dun care much.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik they fit the standard orc pattern.
mircea_popescu: im sure they murder whoever dares open a pizzeria.
mircea_popescu: since i'm not in the pizzeria business... fuckall i care.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: the price of US passport is paying income tax wherever you live.
thestringpuller: US passport: Tax Curse, -10 from wealth
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: just like north kr.
the_scourge: i.e. peter schiff's dad
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: always portraying the state as the retarded mafia
asciilifeform: afaik no one expat has yet been brought back in a cage for not paying. but i'm told that certain foreign banks will avoid you if they learn you have u.s. citizenship.
mircea_popescu: well it is...
cazalla: how long until tax man comes to you and says, i'm a reasonable guy, i'll accept payment for your taxes in bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: quo warranto?
mircea_popescu: does he have like a gpg signed thing from ben_vulpes or something ?
cazalla: i'm not implying he would have the authority, just when taxman might begin to believe he does
asciilifeform: http://www.scientificgamer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/civ1.jpg << obligatory
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18Ll85N )
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i thought they'd flag your passport if you get IRS audited and charged for evasion? (though I guess this is more a dice roll if it occurs to an individual)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if charged for so much as jaywalking
mircea_popescu: cazalla im sure it'll be something like "bitpay paid 500k usd to franchise owner" thing
thestringpuller: chetty was saying she was still paying US taxes (or maybe I recally incorrectly)
BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 17 minutes and 16 seconds
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yo, if this bet stays open until the fucking 6th, and it ends at 100k...
mircea_popescu: it'll just get flooded.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the basic reason why u.s. tax is generally easy to enforce, is that most u.s. folk who have money are rich specifically in usg-controlled scrip or pseudo-realestate or the like
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have no idea for a better spec.
asciilifeform: that can be confiscated by flipping a switch
mircea_popescu: k sec
BingoBoingo: Given BitBet's minimum time constraints
danielpbarron: thestringpuller> US passport: Tax Curse, -10 from wealth << why i can't attend conference
asciilifeform: so, the chump can travel wherever he wants, to zimbabwe if he likes, but if we were to rock the boat - a bureaucrat flips the switch, and -bam- - he's a pauper.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform worked pre btc anyway.
mircea_popescu: o look at that, the tax break for repatriating corp profits? aolso gone.
mircea_popescu: i guess butthurt at it not having worked at all because well... nobody wants their money inside the beast.
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHU6YLC0RvE
assbot: FALSA AMNISTIE - JEAN MOSCOPOL - ANTICOMUNIST - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18LlDwN )
[]bot: Bet created: "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" http://bitbet.us/bet/1115/
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" http://bitbet.us/bet/1115/ Odds: 0(Y):100(N) by coin, 0(Y):100(N) by weight. Total bet: 1 BTC. Current weight: 100,000.
BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: ty bb
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: worked pre btc << still works on all but the l33t35t d00dz, who don't need a bank for anything, are entirely untainted by usa-juice, etc
mircea_popescu: you can use banks just fine.
asciilifeform: bank gets a call - 'mr. x is a dangerous terrorist. is this a terrorist bank?'
mircea_popescu: caller gets response, "nem tudom"
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Russian Index RTS to drop under 500 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1109/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 35(Y):65(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.0574767 BTC. Current weight: 51,537.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to top $1500 before 16 May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1106/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.3 BTC. Current weight: 82,128.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1108/ Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.47696636 BTC. Current weight: 71,999.
mircea_popescu: respectively "please direct any inquiries to the central bank of china / putin / etc"
asciilifeform: unless account holder is high in putin-wot, he might begin to have problems, no ?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> does he have like a gpg signed thing from ben_vulpes or something ? << pardon?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Foundation tax receipt
ben_vulpes: we don't issue such.
ben_vulpes: one of those zero, one, infinity things.
ben_vulpes: if enforcement's impossible...don't enforce.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" http://bitbet.us/bet/1115/ Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 100,000.
hanbot: good to know in case taxman shows up claiming otherwise :D
asciilifeform: i've said it before, but will say again, if 'humane' paper tax collection falls apart (and it seems that eventually must) - the old-fashioned door-to-door shakedowns will return
ben_vulpes wonders if this ddosser can be coerced into attacking arbitrary people in arbitrary channels
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: poverty looks good on me.
BingoBoingo: Or arbitrary things
asciilifeform: the algorithm for sniffing out faux poverty is also not a deep secret, nor especially new
asciilifeform: 'mr x, you're a registered pauper, but is that a first class air ticket you're holding? where'dyagetthat'
asciilifeform: the above is not a statement of 'history is a boot stomping on a human face forever', but a testable hypothesis about actual near-future observables.
hanbot: was a funny case of that in romania. prime minister, very corrupt, "from my auntie!"
asciilifeform: 'let's meet the auntie'
pete_dushenski: never hurts to have a rich uncle
asciilifeform: in the orcish world, if you've paid your bakshis / filed mircea_popescu-style 38 lawsuits against city hall / etc. - you're golden
hanbot: auntie had passed...
trinque: w-w-won it in vegas?
pete_dushenski: found on floor with name on it, hey ppl win the lottery all the time!
pete_dushenski: hanbot or in tahiti without cell or email
hanbot: huh?
trinque: better to just give unto bezzledom what is bezzle
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#546880 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#546881 << obligatory ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: 'american does not believe the man in the uniform to be a bandit, with whom one can come to an understanding. he believes him to be a robot, who must be feared. american law enforcers are able to, by pressing on the keyboard of a multitude of laws and regulations, 'transmute' the most insignificant peccadillo into a monstrous deed. FBI did not need to beat up Monica or toss into her purse heroin or am
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: The giving of false testimony - a crime, seen in Russia as small change - in the U.S. can lead to 26 years of prison. The fact that, in essence, the matter concerned a young girl who did not wish to admit her love affair with a married man, interests no one in the U.S. The principle of the machine is: do it [the crime] - receive. [consequences] the machine is merciless and incorruptible.'
pete_dushenski: @nntaleb: In 80s terrorists captured 4 Russians in Beirut.Russians kidnapped 10 relatives of terrorists, sent body parts.Nobody since messed wRussians
asciilifeform: really, nobody?
trinque: not once
pete_dushenski: usa locks up girls, refuses to "negotiate with terrorists"
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform well ... chechens
pete_dushenski: pt 2 of taleb's note was "in leb/syr"
pete_dushenski: more digestible when the claim is geographically isolated
asciilifeform: trinque: better to just give unto bezzledom what is bezzle << consider the implications of the well-known u.s. court case Wickard v. Filburn.
asciilifeform: which is, as good as any, a demarcation point for the birth of modern usg
asciilifeform: the one that lays claim to every drop of water in the sea, every grain of sand on land, etc.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell peterl http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ << borked
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18LoYMm )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the case was resolved in favour of 'subject, you are meat and we own you'
trinque: asciilifeform: right, I assume they can and will warp reality to suit them as needed
asciilifeform: there was no rebellion, note, then, when it was vastly more realistic
asciilifeform: than today
asciilifeform: nor was there anything more than picketing when fdr pissed on ww1 vets demanding their pensions
asciilifeform: well, first hoover, then fdr
asciilifeform: but this is well known.
trinque: this brings to mind again my (hardly novel) thought that the usg is a shattered sovereign, rather than the absence of one
pete_dushenski: for the greater good(tm)
trinque: in that the ruler clearly always has the power to sort of speak declaratively about reality, and he/it will be mostly believed, or at least ignored
trinque: if that exists, in other words, humans are wired to mostly receive their understanding of what is real from authority, this mode of "state" is exceptionally irresponsible
trinque: did any of that parse?
pete_dushenski: sure, except for how it might be seen to be "irresponsible"
pete_dushenski: people are religious
trinque: pete_dushenski: this form of govt does not broadcast a coherent model of reality
pete_dushenski: whether they pray to the state or science or the church is a matter of fashion
pete_dushenski: nor can they
trinque: pete_dushenski: I am saying that this religion is irresponsible
pete_dushenski: nor can anyone
pete_dushenski: it's not clear to me that reality is digestible below a certain level of intelligence
pete_dushenski: what's reality? it's all perspective
trinque: pete_dushenski: I think we'd agree then. I'm saying the OS that's being distributed is a mangled hack
trinque: sure one can't apprehend reality in some objective way
pete_dushenski: it's a pretty naive os to be sure
trinque: but some confucianism for the peasants never hurt
pete_dushenski: this os is definitely in the first! biggest! best! vein
pete_dushenski: we all have to believe in something, some moreso than others
trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model
trinque: yep
pete_dushenski: the less critical capacity, the more articles of faith
trinque: one cannot just give up modeling at that point
pete_dushenski: trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model << curious, when ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform door to door shakedowns are incompatible with the present day usg.
mircea_popescu: hanbot lol nastase. totally. he did end up in jail tho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still don't understand why
mircea_popescu: btw : he only ended up in jail because he was a politician, and poiliticians exclusively are required to DECLARE their fortune.
mircea_popescu: otherwise ordinary romanian can just go "where from ? your mother paid me."
pete_dushenski: lol
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> which is, as good as any, a demarcation point for the birth of modern usg << more like the birthplace of the central planning element thereof. "we affirm congress has the authority to central plan economic activity"
mircea_popescu: the fed was similarly, except re finance.
trinque: pete_dushenski: I just spent a long time sitting once upon a time
mircea_popescu: centralism is ever the temptation of the stupid and the lazy, for very good game theoretic reasons : they know that greatness won't be oozing out of them personally any time soon. perhaps if it were all put into this box then it may ooze it ?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> well, first hoover, then fdr << the pissing on veterans is a universal sport. this is why being a soldier is dumb, being a mercenary is better.
asciilifeform: i can think of at least four separate incidents where usg armies loudly, publicly, beat and often fired on assemblies of veterans
mircea_popescu: <trinque> sure one can't apprehend reality in some objective way << if this is true, how come gavin's not getting what he wants ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu centralism would be that eretz israel geese in a barrel thing again
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why to which point ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski so it would.
trinque: mircea_popescu: if there is an objective mode of being, I am further down the mountain than it
mircea_popescu: not the same as you said before :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: showing that the grunts were, practically speaking, automata who will do precisely as instructed.
mircea_popescu: well for that matter the pioneers fired on the british.
asciilifeform: whatever 'spirit of rebellion' there was in usa, was exterminated in civil war.
mircea_popescu: all a matter of context, who fires on whom
mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/1115/silk-road-deliberations-over-6-hours/ << if anyone wants into this, bout 12 or so hours left.
assbot: BitBet - Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours :: 1.04 B (50%) on Yes, 1.06 B (50%) on No | closing in 1 day 55 minutes | weight: 100`000 (100`000 to 100`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/18Lr9j3 )
asciilifeform: a leap of conjecture - modern usg began to take shape once the last folks who remembered pre-civilwar usa were gone.
mircea_popescu: why do you think memory is important ?
asciilifeform: just like today's phase transition in decay largely consists of the pre-60s greybeards exiting the stage.
asciilifeform: not memory specifically
mircea_popescu: a woman that remembers her time as queen of sheeba and a sow that remembers the greatness of mud make just as good mates for a hog mounting humiliation porn thing.
asciilifeform: in a seriously broken culture, generation n does not really pass to gen. n+1 the sense of being part of the same thing
asciilifeform: or whatnot
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or else from where comes 'homo redditicus' ?
asciilifeform: orlov refers to him as 'homo sapiens lite'
mircea_popescu: from their mother's cunts ?
mircea_popescu: children are born grimy, what.
BingoBoingo: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BARBECUED_HIGHWAY_CHICKEN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
assbot: News from The Associated Press ... ( http://bit.ly/18LrwKe )
mircea_popescu: aahahaha
mircea_popescu: waiting for the milk + cookies crash
asciilifeform: 'Joe Angelo, a decorated hero from the war who saved Patton's life, approached him the day after to sway him. Rather than accept and listen to the man whom he had decorated himself for his bravery under fire, Patton coldly rejected him and stated "I do not know this man. Take him away and under no circumstances permit him to return."' (pediwik)
cazalla: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trinity-students-think-bitcoin-regulator-could-put-business-185046897--finance.html#kESZasb "They believe a Bitcoin ‘credit-check’ database, in which potential business partners could scope each other out, could be the answer." lol
assbot: These Trinity students think they may have solved the Bitcoin problem - Yahoo News UK ... ( http://bit.ly/1uVnaoC )
trinque: mircea_popescu: you have a hell of a way of provoking a cascade of thought/reflection with a single question
mircea_popescu: i sit on the gigantic shoulders of logs.
trinque: perhaps we find objective truth when we bump into it, so to speak
asciilifeform: cazalla: lol, the black/white-lists crapolade never ever goes away.
mircea_popescu: right ? whether ou find it or not, it's always there to fuck oyu over the mouth. with a stick.
trinque: gavin can't have shamcoin because bitcoin does not work that way, too bad
cazalla: asciilifeform, anything ever come of yifu's black/white list?
mircea_popescu: trinque but "how do you know", after all, if opinion enacted reality (or properly, if there were no objective reality past opinions) then his gambit would actually work.
asciilifeform: cazalla: no idea
asciilifeform: trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#986522 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 19:43:16; asciilifeform: chetty: ''Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say anything. O'Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection: 'For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to assume that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions upon millions of kilometres away. But what o
pete_dushenski: cazalla not that i've heard of either
trinque: this calls into question whether the interaction between sovereign and subject is one of the dispensation of a (hopefully better) OS, as I stated, or whether he is rather to be a force of nature which is so, regardless of what winblows they're running
mircea_popescu: whats an os anyway
trinque: as I think about it, mostly a fairy tale that extends the reach of foot-soldiers to nightmares
asciilifeform: trinque: and the whole concept of everybody getting their mental firmware from the palace, rather than from organic hierarchy that's been around for millenia, is a 20th century evil
trinque: I was thinking of it in terms of "go read these books" and "you know, don't steal that guy's potatoes"
trinque: asciilifeform: yep, that would make sense
trinque: "the state is everywhere"
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.
mircea_popescu: exactly antitethical to how wots work, incidentally. because coherence is the only possible attacxk against a wot.
asciilifeform digs in log, fails to find, mircea_popescu's line about state-imposed star topologies
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/ is prolly too opaque
assbot: Advanced WoT course : how the WoT is attacked, and how it defends itself. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18LsZQQ )
mircea_popescu: but the idea being that sybil attacks succeed when and only when the nodes are too agreefull.
pete_dushenski: yifu seemed to go completely dark after that escapade
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recurring theme on trilema and here, but most recently http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-01-2015#998181 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:50:13; mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha ^^^ here we go.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.00094254 = 1.8851 BTC [-] {9}
mircea_popescu: good companion for http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/
assbot: Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18LtkTG )
asciilifeform: we're still at a point where a great many people alive would need a time machine tour to be convinced of anything like civilization being possible without state-at-center
mircea_popescu: "why vote for women ? because if women spend more time talking to the state and less talking to their husbands, the state will be stronger and society weaker"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, this was a strongly held byzantine notion, too.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: certainly. it wasn't like it requires the transistor.
mircea_popescu: all it requires is other peopel's wealth.
mircea_popescu: to this day i suspect xiaoping's plan was exactly 1. industrialise through giving away the products to the west. within half a century you will have the industry and they will have collapsed.
asciilifeform: 'Thirty years ago the Blimp class was already losing its vitality. The middle-class families celebrated by Kipling, the prolific lowbrow families whose sons officered the army and navy and swarmed over all the waste places of the earth from the Yukon to the Irrawaddy, were dwindling before 1914. The thing that had killed them was the telegraph. In a narrowing world, more and more governed from Whitehall, there was every year l
asciilifeform: ess room for individual initiative. Men like Clive, Nelson, Nicholson, Gordon would find no place for themselves in the modern British Empire. By 1920 nearly every inch of the colonial empire was in the grip of Whitehall. Well-meaning, over-civilized men, in dark suits and black felt hats, with neatly rolled umbrellas crooked over the left forearm, were imposing their constipated view of life on Malaya and Nigeria, Mombasa and
asciilifeform: Mandalay. The one-time empire builders were reduced to the status of clerks, buried deeper and deeper under mounds of paper and red tape. In the early twenties one could see, all over the Empire, the older officials, who had known more spacious days, writhing impotently under the changes that were happening. From that time onwards it has been next door to impossible to induce young men of spirit to take any part in imperial a
asciilifeform: dministration. And what was true of the official world was true also of the commercial. The great monopoly companies swallowed up hosts of petty traders. Instead of going out to trade adventurously in the Indies one went to an office stool in Bombay or Singapore. And life in Bombay or Singapore was actually duller and safer than life in London. Imperialist sentiment remained strong in the middle class, chiefly owing to family
asciilifeform: tradition, but the job of administering the Empire had ceased to appeal. Few able men went east of Suez if there was any way of avoiding it.'
mircea_popescu: best one point plan for world domination i ever heard. plus it worked.
asciilifeform: (orwell's 'lion and the unicorn')
asciilifeform: yes, long, but dropped here for record.
asciilifeform: telegraph - major boost to the disease.
mircea_popescu: only in a sense.
asciilifeform: it made palatial micromanagement of an empire at least thinkable.
asciilifeform: before - it would have been caligula-grade lunacy
mircea_popescu: early internet - boost of disease, mature internet - cure
mircea_popescu: consider the doomed nature of centralism. so louis defeudalized france, forced the nobles away from their estates and relevancy, captive at versailles. fifty years later his heir was being decapitated, and the system collapsed.
mircea_popescu: a system, mind you, that had supported nine centuries of previous monarchs just fine
trinque: I read that article re: representative democracy, but it's clarified in the context of the current conversation
mircea_popescu: through horror of all type , famine, plague, rebellion, invasion, everything possible, thinkable and unthinkjable
mircea_popescu: all it took was merlin i mean mazarin
trinque: this experience of finding oneself to be using old concepts to try to label new data in the present was sort of what I was trying to describe with the meditation experience
mircea_popescu: and i'll take any bet that feudalism as promoted by b-a will take the piss, vinegar and cockroach guts out of any alternative, startingwith the usg
mircea_popescu: and ending with whatever the chinese will come up with at the final end of it.
trinque: I think sitting there I realized the fact of my own existence for the first time
trinque: as a sort of direct, sensory thing
mircea_popescu: lol careful not to fall in.
trinque: rather than a wad of concepts I believed
asciilifeform: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/215PTRS.txt )
asciilifeform enjoys mircea_popescu's optimism but cannot as easily partake in it, from the prison-without-doors
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://trilema.com/2013/if-youve-seen-that-many-pornstars/
assbot: If you've seen that many pornstars... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1uVq24S )
mircea_popescu: "This, I submit, is on its own sufficient proof that pornography is a wholesome, socially representative activity, whereas both cinematography and fashion are (by comparison at least) pernicious and very, very false. And that which is false can never be art, irrespective of all pretense to the contrary."
asciilifeform: related: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/02/quite-few-of-those-currently-inhabiting.html
assbot: ClubOrlov: No escape ... ( http://bit.ly/1uVqnEC )
asciilifeform: ^ this article exemplifies everything i personally most dislike about herr orlov.
asciilifeform: why, i wonder, did he pick the indians as an example of 'the true path' and not, say, a stray dog ?
asciilifeform: he knows full well that it is every bit as possible to transform from what a civilized man is to a stray dog as to the indian.
asciilifeform: orlov himself is in no hurry to trade his computer for a spear.
mircea_popescu: he probably got a little horny for the nude girl at dating age
mircea_popescu: not so for any dog.
mircea_popescu: ;;google beautiful savage
gribble: Beautiful Savage Magazine — Art, Fashion and Lifestyle Magazine: <http://beautifulsavage.com/>; Submission Guidelines » Beautiful Savage: <http://beautifulsavage.com/submissions/>; Beautiful Savage | Facebook: <https://www.facebook.com/BEAUT1FULSAVAGE>
mircea_popescu: hm mybad
mircea_popescu: ;;google nubile savage
gribble: Main/Nubile Savage - Television Tropes & Idioms: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NubileSavage>; Playing With/Nubile Savage - Television Tropes & Idioms: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PlayingWith/NubileSavage>; The Nubile Savage | History Today: <http://www.historytoday.com/michael-sturrna/nubile-savage>
asciilifeform: orlov plugs straight into 4+ centuries of 'noble savage' crap
BingoBoingo: http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/01/mo_man_arrested_after_telling_black_waitress_he_wanted_to_show_her_where.html
assbot: Mo. Man Arrested After Telling Black Waitress He Wanted to Show Her Where He ‘Hung’ Her Grandpa - The Root ... ( http://bit.ly/18LvNxo )
asciilifeform: 'Tommy Dean Gaa, of Maryville, reportedly told the waitress, after she asked if he wanted wheat or white toast, that he was prejudiced and therefore would take white toast, according to a probable cause statement viewed by the Maryville Daily Forum.'
asciilifeform: obligatory sov. joke:
asciilifeform: winnie pooh walks into a butcher's shop, asks 'got mortadella' ? answer, 'sure' winnie pooh draws a submachinegun and spins round, round, round with it, mowing down everything that moves: 'for piiigleet!'
mircea_popescu: every asshole in a dinner is newsworthy now ?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: LOL
thestringpuller: I'm telling you. Quit your day job and become stand up comedian
mircea_popescu: dude could be a pretty rand standup comedian.
mircea_popescu: rad*
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever tried it ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Apparently. "Outrage fatigue"
asciilifeform: mortadella? sure
BingoBoingo: I imagine asciilifeform's object as similar to kakobrekla's objection. Involves going outside.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stand up comedy
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: it's usually practiced indoors...
asciilifeform: not unless everyday life counts.
mircea_popescu: it's like going to a bar, except free drinks
asciilifeform: (and where i live, it might)
asciilifeform: 'all the world's a stage' or how did it go.
mircea_popescu: nah, it went
mircea_popescu: Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player. That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and
mircea_popescu: something.
BingoBoingo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/hes-got-a-downton-abbey-inspired-office-but-rep-aaron-schock-wont-talk-about-it/2015/02/02/1d3f1466-ab1f-11e4-abe8-e1ef60ca26de_story.html?postshare=4811422934264510
assbot: He’s got a ‘Downton Abbey’-inspired office, but Rep. Aaron Schock won’t talk about it. - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/18LxrPC )