⏐︎ 14968
BingoBoingo: Smell the onion http://pando.com/2014/11/14/tor-smear/
assbot: How leading Tor developers and advocates tried to smear me after I reported their US Government ties | PandoDaily
mircea_popescu: interesting. now that's qntrable.
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/533772800516161536
assbot: This onion, it smells! http://t.co/OWgxjuDF1F /hashtag/tor?src=hash /ioerror
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-lulz-of-today-ddos-attacks-ransom-notes-tor-anonimity-and-other-faits-darmes-of-the-retarded-generation/
assbot: The lulz of today : DDoS attacks, ransom notes, Tor anonimity and other faits d’armes of the retarded generation pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: oddly related, BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: "You'll find the core developers are detached and very different to their users. As a developer of software myself I would find it disheartening if the bulk of my users were jerks like /r/bitcoin."
mircea_popescu: look at that, lol.
mircea_popescu: it's visible from something awful!
BingoBoingo: Yeah. Honestly at this point I just don't see many "Bitcoin Developers" actually being very attached to Bitcoin. The "Gavin wants to quit, but doesn't want to say so" hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: well, gavin wants to quit but he can't.
mircea_popescu: the "satoshi costume" is just a start, he'll wear a dead deer if it comes to it.
BingoBoingo: No shortage of those around here. Can't go for a drive of anylength without spotting venison on the roadside.
mircea_popescu: there's some super-paleo people who eat roadkill
BingoBoingo: Sure. I mean the fresh one's are probably safe, but possessing one without a tag for it... Probably safer to drive around with a trunk full of cocaine.
BingoBoingo: In terms of the legal implications.
BingoBoingo: "Conservation Police" here get to do warrantless searches.
mircea_popescu: o rly ?
mircea_popescu: prison 4 lyf for eating roadkill ?
BingoBoingo: yeah. Conservation police find the cocaine... fruit of the poisonous tree, though probably still having problems.
BingoBoingo: Not for life, but problems. The require for deer the same tag per deer required for hunting them.
mircea_popescu: and why does anyone care what they "require" ?
BingoBoingo: Only so many roads with enought traffic for reliable roadkill. The 5-0 has to take the roads too. The time it takes to drag the deer into a safe tarp and wad it up so the car's interior doesn't look like the scene of a homicide...
mircea_popescu: no dude, not like that. for all the "knife subctulture" or we it is, people spending more money and time with knives than they're worth...
mircea_popescu: just keep camping gear in the back, skin and cook the thing on the spot.
mircea_popescu: call friends to bring beer
mircea_popescu: get out before evening
BingoBoingo: Aha.
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/coinbase-rumoured-to-raise-50-million-bezzlars-down-from-150-million-bezzlars/
assbot: Coinbase Rumoured To Raise $50 Million Bezzlars, Down From $150 Million Bezzlars | Qntra.net
mircea_popescu: awwww
BingoBoingo: I'm considering this problem in terms of where the deer are is, is on the side of the "main regional thoroughfare" normally. Because undeveloped colony.
BingoBoingo: Two lane road steady flow of cars. most hours
mircea_popescu: incidentally, am i the only one that finds it just a little amusing that torproject.org actively promotes the use of pdfs to encapsulate information that otherwise should be in a textfile or simple post ?
BingoBoingo: ie. on one end of the "highway" is the seat of county X, on the other end the seat of county Y
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You'd probably be the only one in some other channel.
mircea_popescu: i guess so.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so basically not practical to just pull off road or what ?
BingoBoingo: You jsut don't have a great window ever to do it quietly under cover.
BingoBoingo: Consider this stretch of road https://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=U4aSnIyhBFNIJ3A8fCzUmaVIwyWq6RtIfB4QKiGq_w,LR8A3wsCX4O7WF8-Cb8aigY6iTF1FIBrcYw-yVrSAavWXtZ5NfG6OeE9qFNtVdMDhkNnFpmhOfI2PU3QsUWW8TFXwtA8KEdiXYSgqm9znAZCKo6cBIrHDLz430KxyNObA--GQCnxFjo-vjNVDgvuK_qdZQ,oiRvm6TLtMPKeIbqUE9FRzURnfIRIDWBlGt2jTM-5OK0ssLA8uXFkOjq-5VkzSBz6sarVJ1YPhc0bZhwS56IZ8L_31klCsxLt-sUUr-27DWv1-qczcsFi27rvooqO8cwvhenztfmuYMKZgzEXsdEB_ZtKlfUoFLgNZuvqX3J3t
assbot: Error 400 (Bad Request)!!1
BingoBoingo: T-cHnyGuZg5bcKBN5AKZQGikn4UXWSael2cfWuu8GPZMT8qTuiE--sgR0IMGZMZhEMZJLy_F7b1V52hgFCijS5ioQbrvA7j3MDZZadhYolJmG8nKy5o6FTGJTwogtdmRCZVw&h=200&w=555&scale=1
BingoBoingo: http://dpaste.com/2DR6XPG << Fucking textbining a url
assbot: dpaste: 2DR6XPG
mircea_popescu: because google.
thestringpuller: ;;seen cazalla
gribble: cazalla was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 minutes and 48 seconds ago: <cazalla> http://qntra.net/2014/11/coinbase-rumoured-to-raise-50-million-bezzlars-down-from-150-million-bezzlars/
cazalla: i'm here, what's up thestringpuller
thestringpuller: sorry not at a pc. cant read logs.
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/Salondotcom/status/533758402934345728 << More with the shirt from people who went from serious talk of prison rape to articles on how fat people get made fun of maor.
assbot: Hey, misogynists: The shirts that scientists wear is just as important as sending spacecrafts to comets
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: is that like a parody ?
BingoBoingo: I think it is actually whatever derp runs Salon's twitter Saturday nights
mircea_popescu: i suppose im the only one bothered by the ebonics coming out of salondotcom ?
mircea_popescu: or is the us so poor these days that a plurality of shirts is verbally inconceivable ?
BingoBoingo: I think it's the hint of ebonics coming to dominate the USian pidgin
mircea_popescu: just like they decided a decade ago to randomly use she instead of the canonical pronoun,
mircea_popescu: now they're going to randomly put is instead of are and so forth ?
mircea_popescu: dun wanna be too cultumancated, lest anyone can tell the orcs apart from the elves ?
BingoBoingo: I don't see much other in the way of explanations unless the literate are embargoing them.
BingoBoingo: lulz at the reddit writeup on Thermos https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mei83/for_the_amount_of_money_that_theymos_is_paying/
assbot: For the amount of money that Theymos is paying for new forum software, we could run a bitcoin commercial during the Super Bowl. : Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: "Gavin Andresen's salary as the full time lead developer of the entire bitcoin protocol is $209k a year."
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: if there ever was proof positive that crime doesn't pay, gavin's income is it.
mircea_popescu: he could probably make more begging where he lives, and being a professional beggar would actually be much more respectable and honorable than being bitcoin's 5th column.
BingoBoingo: At that income level Gavin's basically in the trap doctors find themsevles when they realize they hate draining abcesses, but their only other prospect is long haul trucking.
BingoBoingo: Except doctors can count on the MRSA spider always targeting junkies, while Gavin is at the whims of Vessennes burn rate http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/11/mrsa-2/
assbot: Devious MRSA Spider Bites Yet Another Antecubital Fossa; Remains at Large | GomerBlog
PeterL: mircea_popescu: fixed the blog site
mircea_popescu: a cool
mircea_popescu: PeterL so what about scoopbot uptime ? what keeps taking it down ?
PeterL: well, it was not set up to reconnect if it lost the connection
PeterL: I have been working on adding threading to monitor the connection
PeterL: but I have never done anything quite like this, so I am learning as I go
mircea_popescu: but do you know how it dies ? anything in the logs ?
PeterL: I am still not sure why it is dying
mircea_popescu: are you running it on a linux box ?
PeterL: yes
mircea_popescu: until myserver; do echo "Server 'myserver' crashed with exit code $?. Respawning.." >&2 sleep 1 done ?
mircea_popescu: then look in stderr see what codes pop up
mircea_popescu: you can just grep for "crashed with exit code" or w/e
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1298 @ 0.001195 = 1.5511 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : another thing systemv does badly : it tries to restart stuff based on pidfiles.
undata: what are the irc bots around these parts based upon?
mircea_popescu: generally supybot
undata: shameless friend plug: https://github.com/kyleterry/tenyks
assbot: kyleterry/tenyks · GitHub
undata: that thing's pretty good, used in another channel
mircea_popescu: what is it, go ?
mircea_popescu: there was also a ruby one but i dont recall right off what.
undata: mircea_popescu: yeah, the core is written in go, then services in whathaveyou
RagnarDanneskjol: that tenyks is very nicely done
undata: RagnarDanneskjol: I'm sure he'll enjoy hearing that.
decimation: if gavin is a pauper than I'm in the poor house
BingoBoingo: decimation: No, they feed, clothe, and work you at the poor house. Also curfews and such.
decimation: I wonder how many commits he has to make per week to keep his salary
decimation: can he take a few months off like ascii dreams?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's not a bad theory in any sense. got any policy proposals based on it ? << beyond 'open a physical empire where we can all defect to and die like men in the janissary corps' - no useful idea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not from my puny brain.
decimation: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2014/11/14/russian-state-television-shares-fake-images-of-mh17-being-attacked/?PageSpeed=noscript
assbot: bellingcat - Russian State Television Shares Fake Images of MH17 Being Attacked
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: however, ben himself wants a tower of hydrocarbons. and if he gets it, he'll want something else. << actually, afaik what he was speaking for is my escape rocket metaphor.
undata: asciilifeform: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_for_Employment_and_Economic_Development_%28Honduras%29 ??
assbot: Zone for Employment and Economic Development (Honduras) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the discussion was not about 'enough money', but about the distinct and clearly identifiable phase transition where your time becomes 100% your own
ben_vulpes: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wedged-blockchains/237902.tar.gz.00 , https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wedged-blockchains/237902.tar.gz.01 for those looking to wedge a blockchain of their own
asciilifeform: e.g. 'taleb mode'
decimation: asciilifeform: maybe you can get a job at the 'bitcoin foundation' for $209k
asciilifeform: or, alternatively, in the other direction of spectrum, perelman mode.
asciilifeform: decimation: or city dogcatcher, lol
decimation: ah thanks ben
decimation: asciilifeform: actually many cops make near $200k with overtime
asciilifeform: decimation: but they have to work.
asciilifeform: as in, physically go places and do things
decimation: well, 'work'
decimation: true
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think anyone here has trouble getting money by working.
decimation: if you watch 'the wire' one would believe that a possible option would be to sit in your car on the highway and get drunk
asciilifeform: if you watch the right televised strange, one could believe that one possible option for space flight is to light one's farts.
decimation: heh
ben_vulpes: decimation: i'm inching up on 252450, will post more as i gin them up
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i suspect that there is nothing magic about that block
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but simply happens to be when my box exhausted ram from leakage and began to fandango on the db.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah if it is a memory stop it is probably hardware specific
asciilifeform: decimation: wasn't a memory stop as such
decimation: ben_vulpes: what platform are you working on?
ben_vulpes: debian 6
asciilifeform: decimation: but at one point exhausted ram, but blockchain remained wedged upon restart
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> decimation: i don't think anyone here has trouble getting money by working. << I was not able to secure seasonal retail work again this year. I suspect I'm already on a list to "have problems"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo is trying to retain some dignity (has not yet fallen into programming, for example)
undata: bah, sling php, get dollars
undata: better than folding shirts
decimation: I had a lawyer friend who used to be a prosecutor near asciilifeform. He was told not to frequent the local fast food joints because of the poulation of ex-convicts
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. << do elaborate. should all of us but you & kako pack up? or some other thing implied
BingoBoingo: I think I've mentioned here before that after grad school I worked at McDonalds for ~6 weeks to break local kids spirits.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'd love to confirm that for you
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: how did you resist the army?
decimation: right, and in a related point - if $209k per year makes one a pauper, how much is the real bitcoin foundation going to pay?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Too neurologically interesting to enlist.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. << do elaborate. should all of us but you & kako pack up? or some other thing implied << I believe for the rest #b-a is Frankenstein's attic laboratory
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: when working as an r&d contractor grunt, i met plenty of folks in uniform happily 'flying the mahogany bomber'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they mostly had uni degrees though
decimation: asciilifeform: me too. if cards are played right, most mil can write their own tickets in contract jobs
decimation: also military benefits are incredibly generous considering the level of education of most enlisted
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: My brain caught fire a bit too early. When medical records came up post ASVAB offers of pick your field turned into, "trust us, we'll find a nice place for you"
asciilifeform: arrakis os << yet another 'c' microkernel os. snore. snore...
asciilifeform: when will the academics finally starve.
BingoBoingo: In agriculture department academics never starve.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what was the offered place? ball turret gunner?
decimation: lol
decimation: I think the last of those were phased out in the 60's
asciilifeform behind the times
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Post asvab pre-medical write up offers involved language school or medical/technical fields, after when "trust us" I began suspecting "cooks assistant" and latrine crew
asciilifeform: language school or medical/technical fields << what were you hoping to become instead ?
decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52_Stratofortress << ' removal of the tail gun in 1991' wow later than I thought
assbot: Boeing B-52 Stratofortress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I probably would have signed for those. But... shift in tenor came when time to draft actual contract.
decimation: BingoBoingo: did they make you take the mmpi?
decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Multiphasic_Personality_Inventory
assbot: Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: decimation: I don't remember that one specifically, but... pretty sure bring a folder of medical records is a part of what did in my chances for interesting stuff. Amazing what a trip to the wrong part of the hospital can do for your prospects
undata: BingoBoingo: do the wrong drugs as a kid?
asciilifeform: can he take a few months off like ascii dreams << when did i ever say 'few months'
asciilifeform: 'few months' is about as useful as 'few thousand usd'
asciilifeform: which is to say, not really at all.
undata: BingoBoingo: not an insult; I've heard horror stories of kids tripping, getting hauled into the psych ward
BingoBoingo: undata: Nah. Some people's brains don't self regulate well. Maybe it's genetic, maybe it was West Nile.
undata: ah, that'll do it too
BingoBoingo: I got my school bezzel so probably actually netted more value in the end.
undata: when I was younger a doctor put me on an antipsychotic for a bit due to "depression"
undata: a second doctor bothered with blood work and I was merely low on a few vitamins
undata: american medicine is a scam
decimation: asciilifeform: you would like to be more like maxwell?
BingoBoingo: I'm not a big fan of antipsychotics, make me feel like Micheal J Fox. Anticonvulsants though, particularly lamotrigine... do my brain well
asciilifeform: decimation: the example i usually offer is n. taleb
asciilifeform: decimation: because he is familiar to the folks here
undata: BingoBoingo: yeah, if things like diet and exercise don't help, there are always actual neurological issues to consider
decimation: yeah. actually the first one that came to my mind was Don Colacho
undata: hard to trust diagnoses with a pfizer clock on the wall
BingoBoingo: undata: Well, I tend towards generics. Recently though ETOH has been the anticonvulsant of choice.
decimation: http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2011/03/2921.html
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #2,921
BingoBoingo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_head_syndrome << most interesting event I've had with regularity. Not interested in Clomipramine at all though because I like getting boners.
assbot: Exploding head syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gentoo << complicated. the lead dev surrendered to microshit (literally) some years ago, and it's been run by a skeleton crew ever since, with numerous high-profile catastrophes (of the 'your machine is suddenly rendered unusable by a perfectly innocent-looking action' variety) -- but there is -no- adequate replacement to this day.
undata: asciilifeform: hm, hasn't been my experience
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to some extend it exactly mirrors the bitcoind situation - in that every serious user more or less has his own private fork.
undata: anecdotally speaking
asciilifeform: undata probably updates his box
undata: ah, that I agree with, but that's part of the beauty
undata: maybe not for everyone for the same reason
decimation: asciilifeform: I thought mr. robbins quit and started his own gentoo fork?
decimation: http://www.funtoo.org/Welcome
assbot: Funtoo
BingoBoingo: Ah, funtoo, the bring your own kernel adventure
asciilifeform never tried 'funtoo', cannot speak for it
decimation: http://www.funtoo.org/Funtoo_Linux_FAQ << "Part of the distinctiveness of Funtoo Linux is its dependency-based OpenRC init system, so changing this would make it something other than Funtoo Linux. So we do not support systemd as part of Funtoo Linux. "
assbot: Funtoo Linux FAQ - Funtoo
undata: I can attest to gentoo granting you the right to blow your hand off at every step
undata: but also to a well-tuned gentoo install feeling a lot like a well-tuned emacs
asciilifeform: undata: i still haven't forgiven the xorg thing
undata: "ah, this is precisely what I wanted"
asciilifeform: well yes.
asciilifeform: this is why folks use it.
decimation: asciilifeform: you mean the move from x11 to xorg?
asciilifeform: but the cost, for people who did not spend the last decade with it, is high.
decimation: running gentoo certainly gives you a motvation to scale down the lines of code in your system
decimation: I remember running with KDE 10 years ago and dreading the 24 hour compiles
asciilifeform: lol kde
decimation: kde used to not be a steaming turdpile
asciilifeform regards all mousy wm as turd
BingoBoingo remeber running it of FreeBSD at work in 2004
undata: with a relatively modern machine the compile time isn't so bad
decimation: but instead of being the 'adult' alternative to gnome, kde surrendered to idiocy
ben_vulpes: gentoo quest
undata: and you get to make decisions like turning on stack protector and whatnot
BingoBoingo: decimation: Well, the KDE problem is they went from desktop environment to software development club in the bad way
decimation: yeah. I remember using slackware 3 on my old 486, and barely getting X to run - and also wondering what its point would be
asciilifeform: incidentally, try this today.
asciilifeform: you'll get nowhere.
decimation: asciilifeform: you mean making aggressive compiler optimizations?
asciilifeform: i know of no setup where it is possible to set up even a very decent 486 in such a way that it can be used for serious work today.
asciilifeform: tried it personally, and put in a good effort, a year or so ago
decimation: yeah. I was able to get plenty to run back in in the mid 90's
asciilifeform: the main culprit is the www crud
asciilifeform: as recently as 2004, you could.
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
asciilifeform: a recent openbsd (what i eventually settled on for that machine) consumes virtually the whole 64m.
decimation: asciilifeform: did you have 'compuserve' back in the day?
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: not 'aol' either
asciilifeform: never even saw them alive.
undata: decimation: ah I had that
asciilifeform: bbs-en - yes
undata: I vaguely remember gopher sites as a young kid
decimation: compuserve was kind of a giant bbs
asciilifeform: yes, but for money.
asciilifeform: and with lamers
BingoBoingo remember AOL for the copious coaster they mailed
decimation: yeah there were free forums as I recal
devthedev: I wasn't even alive during the days of CompuServe
asciilifeform: i liked the aol floppy disks.
asciilifeform: although they were shoddy
decimation: BingoBoingo: I had a friend who would call aol every day for a new 'demo floppy'
decimation: he accumulated a pile
decimation: later they switched to cds
asciilifeform: i still have 'doom' on a stack of aol floppies somewhere.
BingoBoingo: Oh, we never got their attention until the CD era
decimation: back in my youth I actually ran a tcp/ip node on an 8086
BingoBoingo: Though CD's make for poor coasters in practice
decimation: it was connected to a radio modem and managed to pass tcp to other ham radio operators
decimation: ran this >> http://www.ka9q.net/code/ka9qnos/
asciilifeform: my point earlier was that code bloat is ubiquitous and pestilential and finally made the old hardware unusable with software of even moderately distant (starting '05 or so) vintage.
BingoBoingo: They distribute moisture too evenly over the surface so that it manages to still contact the tabletop
decimation: I bet you could still run 'lynx' on a 486
asciilifeform: 'lynx' - yes.
asciilifeform: and that's more or less it.
decimation: the question is - what have we 'bought' for all this bloatware?
asciilifeform regular user of 'lynx', perhaps one of ten left...
BingoBoingo: This is reminiscent of how Mac OS 9 is less viable on the Internet than OS 7.5.1
decimation: I recall using netscape 1.0 and the user experience was pretty much the same as firefox 30
asciilifeform: aha.
decimation: asciilifeform: I use elinks occasionally
asciilifeform: in most ways - better. because less retardation in the payloads.
decimation: right, no javascript, just html and pictures
BingoBoingo: The problem with Mac OS 8 and later is that it tempts with the fatally broken.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i know of no serious difference between 7.5 and 8
decimation: BingoBoingo: my experience with macs pre OSX were all macos 8 and 9 - and they both sucked ass
decimation: at least with the shitware I was running, they would regularly crash
decimation: and take down the whole machine
asciilifeform: aha, 'cooperative multitasking'
decimation: heh yeah exactly
asciilifeform: (9 was to have memory protection, but the brass over-ruled it)
decimation: one wonders what would have happened if apple actually went down the lisp machine route
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: While 8 could be forced onto Pre-RISC macs, the result is, and I emphasize IS, never pretty.
BingoBoingo: "Apple" never had a chance at that.
asciilifeform is not particularly in love with the 68k
decimation: I remember having to program a 68k variant microcontroller in school, wasn't too bad
BingoBoingo: It was on the Ti-89 I had and the computer I acquired in the same window of time. My affinity is probably mostly through familiarity
decimation: 68hc12 as I recall
asciilifeform: profanity65 << pure genius.
decimation: lol
BingoBoingo suspects there are more similarities between http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=400548341 and Bitcoin than many might suspect.
assbot: Missouri Tigers vs. Texas A&M Aggies - Box Score - November 15, 2014 - ESPN
asciilifeform: unfortunately BingoBoingo may be the only man alive who can see this similarity
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I consider it the privledge of being neurologically deviant
BingoBoingo: The cost of waking up occasionally with a bout of exploding head is an acceptable cost.
decimation: BingoBoingo: is that 'painful'?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Not "painful" as in pain pain. More like having a strong electrical current between your temple and ear while your legs cramp in a way that might need ice in the morning. More discomfort than pain proper.
decimation: that sounds unpleasant, for sure
BingoBoingo: Eh, you get used to it. After about the 5th time when you get rather sure you aren't dying it's not hard to just go back the fuck to sleep by waiting it out.
asciilifeform: if $209k per year makes one a pauper << consider applying my ad hoc formula: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-10-2014#869923 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 13-10-2014 01:35:27; asciilifeform: rephrase, if you like, as 'unit of discretionary income per unit of lost free time.' ☟︎
asciilifeform: ^ this, afaik, covers all edge cases
asciilifeform: for example, gavin, a paid shill, has no free time (he is not his own man)
asciilifeform: a mental patient, likewise
asciilifeform: implied divisions by zero - intentional.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> unfortunately BingoBoingo may be the only man alive who can see this similarity << So the most superficial similarity is the media narrative. A&M is perenial legit title contender while MIZ accidentallied the SEC east championship last year and accidentally is in the lead to win it again this year.
decimation: asciilifeform: do you think gavin works 40 hours per week on the git repo?
asciilifeform: ^ may as well be in chinese
asciilifeform: (BingoBoingo)
asciilifeform: decimation: that was not the point
asciilifeform: decimation: but that he is not actually free to, for example, do a 'decent' bitcoind
asciilifeform: handler - would not approve.
asciilifeform: his pay is in fact contingent not only on 'playing ball' but continued usefulness to handler
asciilifeform: which is not guaranteed
decimation: well, the bigger point - do we really think his 'foundation' is going to last that long anyway?
decimation: so while he might be able to skate for a few years, later he's a pauper in retirement living on government cheese
asciilifeform: if it were to implode, the shills will be placed into similar roles elsewhere
asciilifeform: assuming they have not fallen into official disfavour by then.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So there's a media narrative when team A is having a horrible year that supposed they were good enough to win if only the competition wasn't so strong. But the narrative for Team B is that they are so miserable and wouldn't be winning if only their competition wasn't so weak. And then teams A and B finally meet and in the game B actually maintains a position of superiority.
decimation: at any rate, I get you point, but you realize that the number of folks who are 'free' by your definition are probably less than a few thousand in the us
asciilifeform: decimation: possibly even fewer.
asciilifeform: although how could i possibly know.
BingoBoingo: And in the course of writing that Mizzou leads Texas Ass&Mouth 34-20 now because they scored another touchdown.
decimation: certainly the inflationary currency, the confiscatory taxation, and the expense of home and bread combine to make this lifestyle nearly impossible in the us
asciilifeform: decimation: however, there is perhaps a million people in usa who, if they were to suffer some form of 'brain parasite', could easily jump the border and live this way on the capital they could smuggle out.
decimation: yeah that's probably true
asciilifeform: the capital controls being slowly worked in, are mainly to guard against this.
decimation: a portion of them are doing exactly that every year
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/JoseCanseco/status/533406823152226305
assbot: My finger should have been amputated from the beginning. It was very loose with no bone to connect it.it was also smelling really bad.
BingoBoingo: And twitter censored the picture of the actual necrotic finger
asciilifeform: did i miss something? how did we get to gangrene ?
asciilifeform reads log
asciilifeform: or was this something to do with the sportsmen
ben_vulpes: non sequitur by my read
asciilifeform: ah
decimation: asciilifeform: I found some amusing info: https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2014/11/15/doug-williams-indicted-for-teaching-how-to-pass-a-polygraph-test/
assbot: Doug Williams Indicted for Teaching How to Pass a Polygraph Test | AntiPolygraph.org News
asciilifeform: aha that was in here earlier i think
asciilifeform: and indictment was on 'cryptome' last night.
asciilifeform: peculiarly corrupted fax scan, too
asciilifeform: much snow.
decimation: apparently the detail there is that all of the 'evidence' was collected by undercover cops
asciilifeform: as different from virtually everywhere else?
decimation: so basically they are going to try to convict this guy for training people pretending to be people who take usg's pseudoscience seriously
decimation: This lead me to this guy http://www.c-span.org/video/?200264-1/book-discussion-true-believer
assbot: Book Discussion True Believer | Video | C-SPAN.org
asciilifeform: he's being zapped for 'lèse-majesté'.
asciilifeform: big fat surprise.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: He was the sportsman in the 1990's shot his finger off a few weeks ago. Reattached. "Modern Medicine" has problems.
asciilifeform: they preferentially target the retarded for prosecution, big news.
decimation: so an actual usg spycatcher actually caught found that the polygraph actually hindered his investigation
decimation: asciilifeform: it would be more honest if usg made its agents walk on coals and swear secret loyalty to the civil service - it would be much more honest and straighforward
asciilifeform: decimation: aha but the 'scientific' flavour.
asciilifeform: see also: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772419 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2014 17:35:40; asciilifeform: the one common anthropological thread i see here is that most governments insist on some 'national' symbolic meaning in their chosen means of execution. e.g., the french guillotine across all five 'republics'
asciilifeform: (different thread, similar concept)
decimation: asciilifeform: there was another interesting story on that site: https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2014/10/15/federal-polygraph-school-gave-countermeasure-information-to-polygraph-company/
assbot: Federal Polygraph School Gave Countermeasure Information to Polygraph Company | AntiPolygraph.org News
decimation: apparently usg agents are zealously evangelizing their 'secret' polygraph faith around the world
asciilifeform: incidentall,y
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/lpIrYSr
assbot: 'Grass' Model 79 D - Imgur
asciilifeform: ^ saw this alive in a university surplus shop last week.
asciilifeform: apparently they are common as dirt
asciilifeform: and nobody wants the crud - computerized eeg is pocket-sized
asciilifeform: this is a standard usg 'lie detector.'
asciilifeform: iirc it was going for fiddybucks or so.
asciilifeform: complete with chart printer.
decimation: lol that would be amusing as a party trick
asciilifeform: someone who wants to make a spy drama film, will buy it.
asciilifeform: for any other purpose, quite useless.
decimation: asciilifeform: you could probably get grant money from usg if you were a scamademic
asciilifeform: the physical workmanship of the knobs, etc. - was superb.
asciilifeform: decimation: i was drummed out of scamademia many years ago.
decimation: yeah that's all 'mil-spec' hardware, with the 'round' connectors
asciilifeform: superbly machined aluminum, brass knobs.
asciilifeform: very satisfying 'click', too
asciilifeform: i suspect the theatrical aspects demanded this.
decimation: you should have bought it for the rotary switches
asciilifeform: vita brevis.
decimation: yeah only someone attending to 'serious business' would have a setup like that
decimation: imagine the mind of the 'interviewee': surely usg wouldn't spend bezzlars on those fine knobs if this wasn't serious business
asciilifeform: this is perhaps the 3rd time i see one of these for sale, too
asciilifeform: (in person, not even counting 'ebay')
asciilifeform: there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of them around here.
decimation: do you have a favorite 'junk dealer' in the dc area?
asciilifeform: a number of them.
decimation: I know that there are many scavengers who survive on reselling usg surplus
asciilifeform: yes.
decimation: related: " The revolutionary does not discover the “authentic spirit of the revolution” except before the revolutionary tribunal that condemns him." http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2010/08/1665.html
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #1,665
asciilifeform: if you come across one, know that usg mandates disk sanitation pre-surplus, but no such law is enforced on contractors...
decimation: asciilifeform: I think it depends if there was anything 'secret' on the drive - in that case it probably must be destroyed
asciilifeform: statutorily - yes
decimation: but for that reason most contractors are reluctant to 'donate' their hardware in such a way
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform action like what ?
asciilifeform: like installing updated video board driver
asciilifeform: (if re: gentoo)
mircea_popescu: but i mean... rendered unusalbe as in you can't get a terminal on your monitor
asciilifeform: as in, can't get x
mircea_popescu: not as in, well the hdd's wiped and the bios randomly rewired
mircea_popescu: right
mircea_popescu: that's endemic with x.
asciilifeform: it's pestilentially endemic with any tall dependency stack.
asciilifeform: knock out brick from bottom - all falls.
decimation: the pile of chairs gets mighty fragile
undata: set proper VIDEO_CARDS, emerge -avuDN @world, config kernel, reboot
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suppose the "so ssh then" only works for people who youi knw, actually own multiple computers
mircea_popescu: ie, 1% of the 8bn
asciilifeform: that was decade ago
decimation: or 'use serial port'
asciilifeform: now, anyone with access to a skip owns arbitrarily many
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: but if you think keeping one gentoo box around is work, try five.
mircea_popescu: anyway, what i said was, to noobs looking at linux
undata: I don't do any more work administrating mine than debian.
mircea_popescu: i guess ubuntu 10.04 could be the alternative.
asciilifeform: at any rate, no box i ever owned was rendered entirely unbootable by a braindamaged gentoo
asciilifeform: one can always get a text tty
mircea_popescu: problem is, yoyu get them on ubuntu, next you know they think it's windows and update
mircea_popescu: next you know they ARE on windows.
asciilifeform: although destroying sole means of network connectivity and ending up snaking a ppp link across room, is good times
decimation: purists avoid 'vga' console for serial term
asciilifeform: vga for serial, wat
asciilifeform: probably meant 'text mode' tty ?
asciilifeform: as in, the one normal people see on boot
decimation: no I mean no video card, serial tty only
asciilifeform: aha
decimation: some bioses support this
asciilifeform: well, you only need bios support to access the bios menu this way
decimation: true.
asciilifeform: otherwise any reasonably-civilized os will do
decimation: the vga console code on linux still sucks after all these years
asciilifeform: i and probably everyone else here has owned plenty of boxes with no video output hardware at all.
decimation: many folks trying to get low latency ditch it
undata: asciilifeform: I'm surprised you don't like gentoo, given you tend to advocate actually knowing what your computer's doing, and why
asciilifeform: i use gentoo exclusively.
undata: asciilifeform: ah! then you have every right to hate it.
asciilifeform: or, almost exclusively (got a few bsd boxen around)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: as in, physically go places and do things << dunkin donuts ?
decimation: I might try 'funtoo' if he is serious about no systemd
mircea_popescu: im bashing that exchange lol
mircea_popescu: "o, then you have every right to hate it" lmao
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even if the work of a policeman consisted solely in going to a doughnut shop and eating a kg of garbage every day, so long as he -must- -- that is still work.
asciilifeform: as in, arbeit macht frei.
mircea_popescu: yes yes, i know whatcha mean.
asciilifeform: i was unaware that gentoo was on 'hate radar' for folks who aren't using it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: decimation: but at one point exhausted ram, but blockchain remained wedged upon restart <<< speaking of this, there's an option to close with detached bdb
mircea_popescu: this is useful if you keep stopping every x blocks, backuping bdb files
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ^
decimation: mircea_popescu: you mean running bdb as a separate process?
mircea_popescu: no no, bitcoin itself can close in such a way so as to not leave its own state crud crudely saved
mircea_popescu: this would seem to sane minds the only way to close, but then it "took too long", so...
decimation: ah I see
decimation: which would help differentiate between 'wedged bitcoind state' and 'wedged bdb state'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. << do elaborate. should all of us but you & kako pack up? or some other thing implied << well, i know you self-motivate by refusing to see some degrees, but there are some degrees.
asciilifeform: let's have the cold equations
asciilifeform: which degrees ?
cazalla: this fkn conference i'm streaming.. "cold storage is out dated, it's about multisig now".. where do you see bitcoin in 20 years time? "something like email where you can instantly send value over the internet"
asciilifeform genuinely curious
mircea_popescu: consider the case of the various chicks that came to show their tits for .1 btc
asciilifeform: cazalla wallowing with the eagles, lol
mircea_popescu: they didn't stick around. why this ?
mircea_popescu: one explanation, that persuades me, it's because they dun have the time to. because they gotta work.
asciilifeform: on account of having exhausted the fountain ?
asciilifeform: if they could get the .1 again and again - perhaps would
mircea_popescu: the fountain's still going.
mircea_popescu: well, the .1 ain't, in my mind, the actual larger half.
asciilifeform: iirc you only paid per set of tits ?
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: and each gurl shipped with 1 set.
mircea_popescu: but consider other example : http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/
assbot: Internet story pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: 2nd quote most relevant.
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: put it another way : if i didn't think the .1 is the smaller half, i wouldn't be giving it out in the first place.
asciilifeform: if here 1 -> 2 continued to 2 -> 4 -> 8 -> ... ... maxint - then yes, interesting
asciilifeform: if a successful las vegas roll - less so.
mircea_popescu: so, degrees. for most chicks, the cheese dispensed by the cheese dispenser is all there is.
mircea_popescu: for some chicks, the fact that how the shot does a cheese dispenser work ?! is a more pressing question.
undata: this is such a strangely wonderful place
mircea_popescu: so there are degrees. yes, everyone in the bezzle is in the bezzle.
mircea_popescu: some guys work three jobs to try and get the kid in school where he can work in a sv startup. this is a degree of improvement.
mircea_popescu: then maybe one day the kid gets to the point where he even has the freedom to consider wtf he's doing. further degree.
mircea_popescu: plenty of degrees.
undata fist bumps with ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: plenty of degrees. but, i can't help but notice phase transitions in the space.
mircea_popescu: to restate : if you rent's due and you're short you should not be here chatting, you should be putting out that fire.
asciilifeform unaware of this being a thing for any of the people still here
mircea_popescu: well it's all i meant, rly.
mircea_popescu: im sure the various "give us 1 btc or else !!1" kids were in exactly this position.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen sdffsd
gribble: sdffsd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 hours, 19 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <sdffsd> Mircea, I can't access mpex.co, what's going on?
mircea_popescu: no further than today.
asciilifeform: i still can't fathom 1 being the magic number in there
decimation: like our little extortionist friend
asciilifeform: why not extort, say, 10? 100?
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how hope works.
mircea_popescu: and since you mentioned moiety, from what i understood that was exactly her position.
asciilifeform: starvation?
mircea_popescu: well she had to figure out rent
mircea_popescu: i tried to onlinehire her but for some reason she lacked the drive or w/e.
mircea_popescu: maybe internets just noit her thing
asciilifeform: for some reason i thought it actually happened
asciilifeform: but didn't suffice
asciilifeform wasn't there
asciilifeform vaguely recalls an apparatus involving telephony, where moiety was paid per minute, but few folks called
mircea_popescu: part of the problem is, the internet (and esp my stuff) is very self-directed
mircea_popescu: many people are used to micromanagement, under relentless pressure from a pointless class that wants to justify its existence
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's unrelated.
asciilifeform: ah hm ok. i don't think the other thing was public
mircea_popescu: even today i have plenty of handcrankled tasks for the aspiring slavegirl. never a shortage of that. what's of shortage is teh ppl to disciplinedly work, erry day, hour after hour.
decimation: After seeing work exploit and demolish the world, laziness seems like the mother of the virtues. (#2,053)<< http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2010/10/2053.html
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #2,053
mircea_popescu: decimation sure, great. no complaints may then be entertained about needing stuff tho.
mircea_popescu: laziness is a virtue of the well provisioned.
asciilifeform: micromanagement << most folks around here used to it, but i always imagined they would profit from its removal
decimation: heh good retort
asciilifeform: sparrow in the park may be used to children throwing stones at it
asciilifeform: doesn't mean it needs the stones for anythig
asciilifeform: n
undata: decimation: having been convinced that the walls of my country are going to fall in, I've got all the motivation I need
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tell you what : teenager is used to seeing girls in his class dressed, imagines he'd ben efit from the removal of the clothes.
undata: I think plenty more subconsciously know the same, and are hiding in distractions
mircea_popescu: should that actually happen, teenager would run and hide in a corner.
decimation: asciilifeform: for myself, I find working with an engage colleague to be much more motivating than a boss yelling
mircea_popescu: decimation the tora study model eh ?
mircea_popescu: im kinda curious what comes of the ben_vulpes - mod6 pairing in this vein.
asciilifeform: folks who have not boiled in the cauldron cannot fathom the kind of hells that exist. i once worked in a salt mine where scores of people dredged 'reddit', illicitly, all day.
asciilifeform: many years ago.
asciilifeform: (when it was almost readable)
mircea_popescu: sooo! degrees!
undata: asciilifeform: hey man, I shoveled actual cow shit as a summer gig long ago
undata: it's good for you
asciilifeform: undata: a fellow i work with spent his childhood (india) in cow shit detail. fuel for the local cremation pyre.
asciilifeform: had some interesting stories.
decimation: yeah, in the old west where trees were lacking, cow shit was firewood
undata: amazing how you lose sense of the smell
mircea_popescu: doesn't that make him whatever that caste is ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oddly enough - brahmin, entirely unsullied by this
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: somehow there was an exception for children doing chores
decimation: I think you are thinking of dalit
asciilifeform: so long as human turds not involved - ok.
cazalla: any takers for http://www.findbitcoinjobs.com/jobs/20347-risk-investigator-at-coinbase ? can double as a mole for qntra
assbot: Risk Investigator at Coinbase | Bitcoin Jobs
asciilifeform: human turds -> dalit
asciilifeform not expert on the mechanics whereby cow shit does not count as shit
undata: cows being holy or somesuch?
asciilifeform: well yes.
undata: I can firmly attest they are not
mircea_popescu: maybe it's because it tastes good.
mircea_popescu: indians are nuts.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in parts of near east, folks mix it into chewing tobacco.
asciilifeform: don't ask me why.
mircea_popescu: nuts.
mircea_popescu: cazalla im sure one'd have to sign whatever.
undata: asciilifeform: humans will imitate goddamn anything
asciilifeform: don't advertise for a 'stierlitz' in a public channel...
cazalla: mircea_popescu, this job actually coincides with the fraud i reported on weeks ago to which they never responded, i'm writing it up
asciilifeform: (folks will bite but not the ones you want)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: teenager would run and hide in a corner << puzzling over this. why would this happen ?
mircea_popescu: why. because nothing is as scary as cunt, that's why. try it sometime.
asciilifeform often wonders if mircea_popescu is logged in from mars. or if asciilifeform is, himself.
mircea_popescu: why do you think you take the bitch to the dog, not vice-versa ? males are shy.
cazalla: you take the doe to the buck too!
cazalla: sometimes to doe mounts the buck
mircea_popescu: ^
cazalla: the even
asciilifeform: cazalla breeds radiation-damaged deer in butugychag ?
undata: that even sounds like a soviet labor camp
asciilifeform: it was.
cazalla: asciilifeform, i wish, just rabbits but i'm sure you know this
asciilifeform: but also a region.
asciilifeform: aha rabbits.
asciilifeform: damaged by what?
asciilifeform: or is this normal for the species
decimation: Frustration is the distinctive psychological characteristic of democratic society. Where all may legitimately aspire to the summit, the entire pyramid is an accumulation of frustrated individuals. http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2010/05/1110.html
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #1,110
mircea_popescu: its normal for all mammal species yo.
undata: asciilifeform: mining uranium without gear, no less. brutal.
cazalla: asciilifeform, you DO know i raise rabbits right? *here comes cazalla and his rabbits talk again*
asciilifeform: aha yes i recall.
asciilifeform: good picture of heads
asciilifeform: (what do you usually do with those?)
cazalla: compost it all
decimation is dreaming of building a colacho-bot which attempts to provide the appropriate aphorism for the conversational mood
cazalla: i wanted to make snow camo but who has the time
asciilifeform: i think ilkka kokkarinen had a colachobot
decimation: lol he has a book http://www.amazon.com/The-Wingnut-Musings-Ilkka-Kokkarinen/dp/1468166816
assbot: The Wingnut Musings: Ilkka Kokkarinen: 9781468166811: Amazon.com: Books
asciilifeform: that book is all that's left of him.
decimation: it sounds pretty good
asciilifeform: i own it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: i know of no setup where it is possible to set up even a very decent 486 in such a way that it can be used for serious work today. <<< sarge ?
asciilifeform: he is/was a finnish emigre, working as a comp sci prof in canada. was hounded off the net by 'outraged mass' for moldbuggery.
asciilifeform: not once, but twice.
asciilifeform: first time, made to recant, threatened.
asciilifeform: then came back. then, disappeared again, taking all of his materials with him, this time - for good, apparently.
decimation: he should come on here
decimation: foesti has a review http://foseti.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/review-of-the-wingnut-musings-by-ilkka-kokkarinen/
assbot: Review of “The Wingnut Musings” by Ilkka Kokkarinen | Foseti
asciilifeform: ilkka.kokkarinen at gmail
mircea_popescu: hanbot mail the man would you.
asciilifeform: tried to contact him 2 yrs. ago, he said 'shoo'
asciilifeform: or the like
asciilifeform: i have the dead tree book, it's a 'best of' his blog
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: and that's more or less it. << notice that bitbet, mpex, trilema, qntra, logs etc all work on lynx.
asciilifeform: foseti and a few other guys have warez scans
asciilifeform: ask'em.
asciilifeform: he was a die-hard poker player and loved applying the metaphors to, well, relevant things.
asciilifeform: also a very decent mathematics handler.
asciilifeform: blog was called 'fourth checkraise'
mircea_popescu: decimation: asciilifeform: do you think gavin works 40 hours per week on the git repo? << do you suppose captive whore in thai illegal brothel works 40 hours per week ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sarge << i don't consider non-source-based distro as suitable for serious work
mircea_popescu: what fucking difference does it make how many nominal hours teh slave works.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was sorta my point in reply
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sarge source was released no /
asciilifeform: source released != source-based distro
asciilifeform: msdos source also 'released'
asciilifeform: and win2k.
asciilifeform: 'source based distro,' classically, is when nothing (other than bootstrap compiler & kernel, thomson says hello) gets on the box without being built there.
asciilifeform: normally this is at least minimally mechanized.
asciilifeform: because vita brevis.
asciilifeform: ilkka's book << notice he pulled the 'kindle' version also.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure you could, and still can, do this with deb 3.1
asciilifeform: and the printed one was a 'print on demand', there was no actual reason to zap it
asciilifeform: except that he was frog-marched.
asciilifeform: this is what means 'not free man'
asciilifeform: he skipped red finland to end up in... this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if it were to implode, the shills will be placed into similar roles elsewhere <<< pretty miuch this.
mircea_popescu: which is why career anlysis is such a powerful tool,
asciilifeform: and attribution of works.
mircea_popescu: and which is why as BingoBoingo pointed out earlier, when touched there they react. (the tor people in that case)
mircea_popescu: it's the one place it hurts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yup, but until being "invented" here that really never existed.
asciilifeform: and we watched herr dingledine give private performance for nsa.
asciilifeform: a year ago.
asciilifeform: ferglubssake we didn't invent pgp.
asciilifeform: but in practice - this.
mircea_popescu: "attribution", not pgp
asciilifeform: !s three-man system
assbot: 1 results for 'three-man system' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=three-man+system
asciilifeform: invented by, afaik, herr korolev.
asciilifeform: attribution.
mircea_popescu: the idea that what you do wil come back to haunt you is very much mpoe[-pr], as far as the bitcoin, and generally the "entrepreneurial" spaces are concerned.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922643 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:27:45; asciilifeform: there was a three-man system
mircea_popescu: swanson's "that's not how normal debates work" is just an echo of that.
asciilifeform: one day we produce a koraktor, wrapped in sc4mz0r pelt cover, 'the art and science of hunting shitgnome'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well that's why the quotes. obviously it's an ancient idea, and no invention whatsoever.
asciilifeform: or 'malleus scamificorum' alternatively.
mircea_popescu: but this doesn't change the fact that nobody did it, nor does it change the fact that i'm principally hated for that reason, my agents have been principally hated for that reason
mircea_popescu: and this chan is called a cult, or anything else bad!111 for that reason.
asciilifeform: devils - hate crucifix, yes
asciilifeform: how could they not.
asciilifeform: what does true hate even mean, if not this.
mircea_popescu: cause nothing is so fucking evil as you know, someone digging up on trilema, coming up with meni rosenfeld's name, now the scumwipe can't go around pretending like you know
mircea_popescu: "hje's been in bitcoin". "o, but doing what ?" "nevermind that!!!"
asciilifeform: surprising he'd use the name again.
asciilifeform: no one cancelled, even, 'google.'
mircea_popescu: most of them didn't realise this attribution doohickey even exists.
mircea_popescu: which is why, "invention". apparently it is.
mircea_popescu: to this day, and shockingly, i write about church ? ppl are "oh, you're jealous"
mircea_popescu: it doesn't even manage to pierce the dielectric between their ears that no, im jus saving it for later.
asciilifeform: l0l!!
mircea_popescu: somehow this is not a possible concept.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2FGT98Y.txt )
asciilifeform: !b 2 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: for a while i used to say it (back when i was dealing with romanians). it did... exactly zero difference.
cazalla: hate to say it but.. qntra? ddos?
mircea_popescu: and it's vastly pervasive. average us politician will not understand that his voting record is a matter of... record!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: note also my observation last week, that i intensely suspect 'google usenet archive' was zapped not on account of any accident
asciilifeform: but precisely because attributability.
asciilifeform: and the devils who fear.
undata: cazalla: looks down here
joecool: it's been up and down for past day
asciilifeform: but anyone who thought that a 'library of alexandria' was safe in the hands of the likes of 'google' - was a fool from the start.
joecool: asciilifeform: what's up with google's archive?
asciilifeform: joecool: of 'usenet.' no longer searchable.
asciilifeform: try it.
asciilifeform: is it really possible that i'm the only one who noticed ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2010/politica-adevarata/ << just consider that.
mircea_popescu: coburn actually has to TELL people, that attribution is a thing.
mircea_popescu: and they're like, you know, a buncha barbarians confronting microorganisms.
mircea_popescu: "if you don't wash your hands you get dysentery" "really ? .... hmm.... maybe, but i tihnk it's the will of god... i have my amulets with me..."
asciilifeform: lol!
mircea_popescu: cazalla as per usual.... i see it jus' fine.
undata: mircea_popescu: I can't pull up trilema here either
mircea_popescu: undata somehow im still getting spam comments tho
joecool: asciilifeform: seems to work for me?
asciilifeform: works
asciilifeform: or, hm, now - no
joecool: i just went to groups.google.com and ran a search and it popped up a few usenet newsgroups and some results mostly from usenet
asciilifeform: try something '90s
asciilifeform: but not '80s
asciilifeform: ('early usenet archive' is separate gizmo there)
joecool: are you talking about the dejanews archive?
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forumsearch/psmith9626
asciilifeform: ^ example
asciilifeform: should be ~30,000 posts
asciilifeform: zero.
mircea_popescu wasn't there, doesn't care anymore about this primitive tribe than about any other primitive tribe that was swallowed b y history.
mircea_popescu thinks if it didn;'t suck it'd have left artefacts.
asciilifeform: it left artifacts.
asciilifeform: mainly on various people's disks.
mircea_popescu: tough.
mircea_popescu: civilisations are judged by what remains, not by what they once were.
asciilifeform: well yes.
asciilifeform: http://yarchive.net
asciilifeform: ^ example of what remains.
asciilifeform: easily worth ten thousand of today's internets put together.
asciilifeform: and that's just one man's archive.
asciilifeform: going right back to 'attribution' point - these libraries - did not burn.
asciilifeform: they will come out.
asciilifeform: and the destroyers - will pay. one day.
decimation: re: gavin's 40 hr week << I was merely pointing out that if ascii's formula is (freedom hrs)/(work hrs), then gavin might have a good score
asciilifeform: his score is nil
asciilifeform: because he is never free.
asciilifeform thought he explained this
decimation: his 'free hours' are an illusion, agreed
asciilifeform: hence zip.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and the destroyers - will pay. one day. << aite!
mircea_popescu: i was mostly giving you a hard time :D
decimation: I note that our volunteer testers seem to have left whatever routing tables they were messing with alone
decimation: I wrote too soon, qntra and trilema are both down for me now right now
mircea_popescu: lmao this stuff...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: decimation: possibly even fewer. <<< he likes a short thing lol.
asciilifeform: re: ilkka: >> http://isteve.blogspot.com/2006/09/16-volts-silenced-by-his-university.html << the demise of his first site
asciilifeform: (discussion thereof)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: this is a standard usg 'lie detector.' << the funny thing is, i dunno if the scientologists copied the ohmmeter after the usg "lie detector", or vice-versa, the fbi is tring to find yout tethans
decimation: mircea_popescu: maybe if they are short polygraphers usg asks some local scientologists to sub in
asciilifeform: late 19th c. physiologists discovered skin conductance meter (as sanctified by 'scientology')
joecool: asciilifeform: heh yeah i ran some other searches I knew worked before (like linus's first linux announcement on comp.os.minix), it's gone
asciilifeform: the 'polygraph', as the name implies, combines several instruments (eeg, ekg, conductometer)
decimation: to be fair, there is some science in the sense that it detects parasympathetic activation
asciilifeform: that is the apparatus pictured in the photo
decimation: but the problem is this has nothing to do with truthsaying
asciilifeform: about the same thing that hot coals ordeal has to do with 'truth.'
mircea_popescu: joecool funny how that goes, right ?
decimation: as asciilifeform mentioned in the past the operative effect is to filter for 'cold' psychopaths
decimation: or at least very meek and compliant folks
asciilifeform: and in general for folks who don't give a flying fuck
mircea_popescu: ;)
asciilifeform: or those with naturally 'immobile' vital signs
asciilifeform: etc.
joecool: mircea_popescu: i'm just surprised nobody else wrote about it, i doubt they get huge volume searching for things, but still, nothing mentioned about it
mircea_popescu: news at 11 : good pokerface is good pokerface.
asciilifeform: incidentally, you don't need the jailed quack to 'study lie detector'
mircea_popescu: joecool this is my broader point. a stupid language deserves its own stupidity.
asciilifeform: fiddybucks buys you all the components, in a manageable pocket size.
mircea_popescu: english is in this sense quite stupid.
asciilifeform: ask 'biofeedback' aficionados.
decimation: there is probably some amusement to be had in experimenting with such things
asciilifeform: decimation: there are folks who do it for a hobby.
asciilifeform: http://hardwick.fi/ilkka/16v0830.htm
asciilifeform: ^ ancient backup of 'sixteen volts', kokkarinen's first site.
decimation: from the senior usg 'stendartendfurher's
asciilifeform: nm, borked
mircea_popescu: ddos ?
asciilifeform: nah, just incomplete
asciilifeform: there is a mostly full one. somewhere.
decimation: from the senior usg Standartenführer's point of view, the polygraph is an ideal device to filter the workforce into compliant sheep and stone cold thugs
mircea_popescu: The brilliant Finnish-Canadian computer science professor / blogger Ilkka Kokkarinen has taken down his popular blog, presumably to keep his job after his campus newspaper noticed his heterodox views. His skepticism about the intellectual consistency of lesbian-feminist theory and practice would appear to have been his biggest crime. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: "After being alerted by The Ryersonian, computer science chair, Alireza Sadeghian said the department neither accepts nor condones Kokkarinen’s views."
decimation: right, we need to get him here
mircea_popescu: wait. how does a computing dept accept or not accept views in other fields ?
decimation: maybe he can port bitcoind to forth
mircea_popescu: like... does the geography department accept grammar ?
mircea_popescu: what sort of ignarous barbarity is this!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was taken to политотдел.
mircea_popescu: !up nacci
asciilifeform: loper-os.org/pub/ilkka.zip
asciilifeform: afaik the only copy on the net.
nacci: hey
asciilifeform: (presently)
asciilifeform: (note, this is 'sixteen volts,' his early site. not 'fourth checkraise')
mircea_popescu: Clearly, Professor Kokkarinen was naive to use his own name when he switched his blog from Finnish to English <<< mp considers just how great his power is.
mircea_popescu: i switched from romanian to english jus' fine.
mircea_popescu: ello nacci. who're you ?
nacci: just another bloke
decimation: mircea_popescu: to be fair, you didn't have a tenured position in a nato colony
mircea_popescu: but... wait. i make more than whatever tenured prof makes.
mircea_popescu: and i can read, just like him.
mircea_popescu: how is this comparison against me ?
decimation: heh yeah that's why he needs to be here
decimation: you see, he has 'loyalty'
decimation: I guess
mircea_popescu: and i dare think if he had a tenured position this would have been a non issue
decimation: well that's a good point, he probably didn't
mircea_popescu: since that's what tenure is. "o you don't like me ? fuck you and get lost."
asciilifeform: tenure doesn't actually exist in angloworld now.
asciilifeform: any more than property.
decimation: tenure exists if you are willing to push the multicult
asciilifeform: (it being a kind of property right, traditionally - fat surprise.)
nacci: nepotism trumps tenure
mircea_popescu: decimation for the record, as one coming from an actually multicultural world, i am both offended at the misuse of the term and would pray you don't discard an actually superior mode of human life
decimation: heh
mircea_popescu: just because some fucktarded barbarians in a colony think that cowboys in sheets = latins.
asciilifeform: 'Physicist Steven Jones, who first pointed to the use of thermite in the destruction of the two towers had to agree to having his university buy out his tenure or his university was faced with losing all federal financing.' << example from herr orlov. ( http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/09/911-after-13-years.html )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i tell you, if i was the provost i wouldn't have made the offer.
mircea_popescu: let the fucking feds cut off financing.
mircea_popescu: this is like, russian orthodox church vs tsarate already.
asciilifeform: and recall how that went.
mircea_popescu: so what if it did ?
asciilifeform: obligatory:
asciilifeform: !s solzhenitsyn axe
assbot: 4 results for 'solzhenitsyn axe' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=solzhenitsyn+axe
mircea_popescu: fuck that. the freedom you like is built on a certain kind of disinterest in effects.
asciilifeform: except everyone, i think, knows this
asciilifeform: swinging the axe - another matter altogether.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
mircea_popescu: i dun see it.
mircea_popescu: nothing easier in the world than "fuck you and get lost."
mircea_popescu: srsly.
asciilifeform: notable historical case study is treblinka uprising
asciilifeform: notable for being the only major one inside the barbed wire
asciilifeform: (unless counting warsaw ghetto)
mircea_popescu: or in the cinematic version, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r-vu-l8mLE
asciilifeform: iirc, the magic ingredient - no women
mircea_popescu: funny how that goes huh ?
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: so now... tell me. did it matter how fucking pretty the women were ?
asciilifeform: nein. only that they were already dead.
mircea_popescu: whether young or old ? slutty or annyoing ? big tits or small ? pert or loose ?
mircea_popescu: did not. exactly.
mircea_popescu: in some circumstances, listening to the women is a bad idea.
asciilifeform: the way historians seem to present it, it was less 'listening' and more 'no hostages'
asciilifeform: when 'they'll xxx my mother, sister, wife' - folks hesitate to swing axe
mircea_popescu: hostages ? someone has to first care
asciilifeform: when mother, sister, wife - buried - they swing axe with the grace of ballet dancer.
mircea_popescu: caring has its place. that place is not "everywhere all the time"
asciilifeform was not in treblinka, knows only what the contemporaries saw fit to write down
asciilifeform: the folks blessed with the talent of 'not care' on-demand - probably tended to not end up behind the wire in the first place.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: and the folk that muck a hand the moment it can't win don't tend to end up in the bottom half of the poker tourney either.
asciilifeform: see also http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2008/09/survival-of-nicest.html (solely for the quote from seagrave's 'castaways')
asciilifeform: esp. last paragraph.
asciilifeform has the book, it is lovely
asciilifeform: recommends especially to BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: and other aspiring 'mad maxes'
asciilifeform: err, e. leslie
asciilifeform: (seagrave wrote only foreword)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: bitcoind stop detatch?
ben_vulpes: i'm digging, but hints would be lovely
asciilifeform: www.mediafire.com/download/df86bg0f9lbxx2n/wingnut_musings.pdf
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/coinbase-seeking-a-risk-investigator/
assbot: Coinbase Seeking A Risk Investigator | Qntra.net
asciilifeform: ^ ilkka's book. mutilated but readable.
ben_vulpes: cloudflare now preventing me from getting at en.bitcoin.it
ben_vulpes: watch it come back without any reference to detachdb...
ben_vulpes: is there an en.bitcoin.it mirror anywhere?
RagnarDanneskjol: http://dump.bitcoin.it/
assbot: Index of /
ben_vulpes: (just paranoia i suppose)
mircea_popescu: cazalla BingoBoingo others : ok, i *think* the bad routing thing may be fixed.
mircea_popescu: pls to let me know furiously if more further problems later on.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, working again here
ben_vulpes: http://94i30.net/wp-content/bitcoin-p2sh/bitcoin-detachdb.php << for lulz ☟︎
assbot: Bitcoin Detachdb | Bitcoin P2sh
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes : "Explanation of -detachdb (and the new “stop true” RPC command): The Berkeley DB database library stores data in both “.dat” and “log” files, so the database is always in a consistent state, even in case of power failure or other sudden shutdown. The format of the “.dat” files is portable between different versions of Berkeley DB, but the “log” files are not– even minor version differ
mircea_popescu: ences may have incompatible “log” files. The -detachdb option moves any pending changes from the “log” files to the “blkindex.dat” file for maximum compatibility, but makes shutdown much slower. Note that the “wallet.dat” file is always detached, and versions prior to 0.6.0 detached all databases at shutdown."
mircea_popescu: turns out this is a moot consideration in your case.
ben_vulpes: yeeeeeah.
ben_vulpes: 's what i suspected at least.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ilkka.txt << herr kokkarinen's 'musings', deturdified.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ty for that.
ben_vulpes: lovely asciilifeform
asciilifeform: this is the book, which was a 'best of' (in his view) of his last site, 'fourth checkraise.'
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ever considered releasing asylum as a pay-per-dl?
mircea_popescu: to compete with the current, "free" ?
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/i-wrote-a-book/ << click 1st link.
assbot: I wrote a book… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ben_vulpes: trilema credits are free nao?
asciilifeform: i think they want the cover & the turkish bubblegum smell.
ben_vulpes shrugs
mircea_popescu: "free" yo. not free.
ben_vulpes: if the author endorsed approach is to copy the damn thing off his website...
mircea_popescu: anyway, your pay-per-dl comes to like 2k satoshi if you do it in one go, or else free if you take what was it, 5 weeks.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what are you trying to accomplish ?
RagnarDanneskjol: its actually being circulated among some hollyweird people at present fyi
ben_vulpes: i'm actually thinking about bitcoin databases so nothing w/r/t asylum
ben_vulpes: honestly i'd just rather have it on my kindle than flip through whatever's in the mail
mircea_popescu: meh, i dun wanna support x or y's closed platform.
ben_vulpes: "versions prior to 0.6.0 detached all databases at shutdown." << explains hilariously slow shutdowns
asciilifeform: how often does a sane person shut down 'bitcoind' anyway?
asciilifeform: next, what, want fast reactor shutdowns?
mircea_popescu: "shut down"
mircea_popescu: didn't you shut yours down a number of times ?
asciilifeform: for debuggery - aye
mircea_popescu: /alias shutdown kill -9
asciilifeform: incidentally this is why a correctly-implemented blockchain db is isomorphic to a 'journalling' file system.
mircea_popescu: im not sure why bdb is trying to be both
asciilifeform: so that 'kill -9'-style death is always the correct behaviour.
asciilifeform: and in no case can result in inconsistent state
ben_vulpes: in any event i've gotten the thing to 240000
ben_vulpes: i'll be quite amused if i fail to wedge it
asciilifeform: what's it running on?
ben_vulpes: mod6 is perusing the tens of thousands of lines of excised code
ben_vulpes: debian on some virtualization layer
asciilifeform: ah, wai, wat
asciilifeform: excised what?
asciilifeform: tens thousands lines?
ben_vulpes: i exaggerate
ben_vulpes: :P
mircea_popescu: "The only thing women clearly do better without men is raise the next generation of criminals."
mircea_popescu: bwahhha ok not bad.
asciilifeform: herr kokkarinen made a point never to write an essay more than 1 paragraph or so in length.
asciilifeform: whole thing can be 'eaten' in an evening.
mircea_popescu is apparently of the opposing school.
mircea_popescu: i remember the times i could say an article in five pages
mircea_popescu: vaguely.
asciilifeform: why ilkka did this - i do not know. some necromancer here can perhaps resurrect him and ask.
mircea_popescu: if you take the 94 million kulaks, capitalists, dissidents and other groups of people that socialists murdered in the twentieth century, and punch the numbers into a calculator, the average number of victims per hour equals almost exactly the one-hour kill count of Anders Breivik. Just imagine how absurd it would be if, instead of being captured and neutralized, Anders were simply allowed to keep killing people day and
mircea_popescu: night until the twenty-second century dawns. And yet such an absurdity practically defined the twentieth century.
mircea_popescu: "socialism doesn't kill people" :D
mats_cd03: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00042212 / 0.00043058 / 0.00044033 (585026 shares, 251.91 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.0005235 / 0.00065245 (7865451 shares, 4,117.57 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00066873 / 0.00081111 (23548921 shares, 15,748.02 BTC)
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/11/this-onion-it-smells-inherent-hazards-of-the-tor-network/
assbot: This Onion, It Smells: Inherent Hazards of the Tor Network | Qntra.net
ben_vulpes: have 0.5.3 blockchains at 240001; interested researchers may request links.
ben_vulpes: next checkpoint 245000
BingoBoingo: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3986911
assbot: Tor: This Onion Smells - Slashdot
fluffypony stretches
BingoBoingo: How's Rhodesia?
fluffypony: still in the USA
fluffypony: flying to LA tomorrow, sleep over one night, then back to SA on Monday via Dubai
BingoBoingo: Ah, cool.
fluffypony: Vegas was fun, saw the Blue Man Group for the first time and they were awesome
fluffypony: also the production quality on La Rêve was insane
BingoBoingo: Vegas, where entertainers never really die... until they... actually die
fluffypony: lol yeah
BingoBoingo: Well, their choices are what? Vegas or Branson?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 2083 @ 0.0012 = 2.4996 BTC
BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=reptillians+on+earth << lulz
assbot: reptillians on earth - YouTube
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so it passed wedgespot ?
BingoBoingo: !up twentydollarbill
punkman: http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/15/as-developers-depart-google-glass-is-ready-to-become-this-eras-segway/
assbot: As Developers Depart, Google Glass Is Ready To Become This Era’s Segway | TechCrunch
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2gKqwmCcAAkIsc.jpg
punkman: https://twitter.com/Ghetto_CNN/status/532972951407439874
cazalla was raised a joho
cazalla: you think bitcoin makes you an outsider, you have nfi
cazalla: anyway, that is not joho propaganda punkman
punkman: what'd you expect from CNN
punkman: cazalla: did you ever do the door-to-door thing?
cazalla: punkman, yeah countless times plus fkn wednesday night book study, sunday talks and worse, assemblies
punkman: pretty rare around here, but I've seen the odd flyer
cazalla: rare here as well, when i was around, my parents each lost a brother within 6 months so that opened the door for the jws to get their hooks in with the paradise earth bullshit
cazalla: araound 5 i mean
cazalla: you know what kicked off us leaving? doom and rise of the triad
cazalla: once i hit my teens and refused to go and was willing to take a beating if it meant i could play doom, domino effect kicked in and family stopped going
punkman: http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/14/bernard-von-nothaus-of-liberty-dollar-ha
assbot: Bernard von NotHaus of Liberty Dollar Has His Motion for Post-Conviction Relief Denied, Will Face Sentencing - Hit & Run : Reason.com
cazalla: !up bitbethelp
bitbethelp: this bet was resolved incorrectly, 1 sec
bitbethelp: http://blasze.tk/A1KGCV
assbot: BitBet - Republicans win majority of the U.S. Senate :: 1.3 B (58%) on Yes, 0.93 B (42%) on No | closed 1 week 6 days ago
bitbethelp: just so you know, dd4btc is a tard
bitbethelp: http://blasze.tk/U12CYI
assbot: Open Port Check Tool - Test Port Forwarding on Your Router
bitbethelp: interesting way assbot is using to cloak its ip
BingoBoingo: !down bitbethelp
BingoBoingo: ;;isup thedrinkingrecord.com
gribble: thedrinkingrecord.com is down
BingoBoingo: Oh well. It was a good run.
thestringpuller: what happened?
thestringpuller: are they ddosing the drinking record?
BingoBoingo: Sure, but no big
thestringpuller: you haven't gone to bed yet?
BingoBoingo: Uptime is what it is
thestringpuller: dat uptime
BingoBoingo: I'm up learly today
BingoBoingo: !up bitbethelp
bitbethelp: fivezerotwo here fyi
BingoBoingo: Ah
cazalla: bitbethelp, you misrepresented yourself to me
bitbethelp: cazalla, correct! this is what /b/tards would call "social engineering"
bitbethelp: herpderp
cazalla: to what end? you didn't gain anything
thestringpuller: http://i.imgur.com/2oMV0Nv.jpg << hey look thermos is well being thermos
punkman: bitbethelp: are you also the guy that claimed to have a bitbet hack a while back?
bitbethelp: cazalla, nor did I lose anything. it's not about the attempts where you don't get anything, but the attempts you succeed.
bitbethelp: punkman: no
cazalla: bitbethelp, well, you're 0 for what must be 1000+ attempts to get paid at this point
bitbethelp: cazalla, lol
thestringpuller: the only way to get paid in this channel is to do work :P
bitbethelp: say one line and you can mislead people on your intent
bitbethelp: here's a tip: people who want to get paid send along an address, like that dd4bc tard
punkman: guess the lulz are payment enough
cazalla: beggars can't be choosers
punkman: https://twitter.com/replicakill/status/520819622560276480/photo/1
assbot: The four F's. http://t.co/eLktxGSBQk
bitbethelp: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
bitbethelp: nope, it isn't
bitbethelp: so, cazalla, what's your plan on running qntra when it's going to be down 7x24 if it gets any sort of traction?
cazalla: bitbethelp, having a beer, cunt!
bitbethelp: when operating a website you need to consider advanced persistent threats, such as yours truly
cazalla: bitbethelp, you give me the excuse i need to drink so have at it
bitbethelp: lel
BingoBoingo: Qntra really doesn't look down at all from here
cazalla: you're not a threat, you're are like the buzzing of flies
bitbethelp: BingoBoingo, you're the very minority http://check-host.net/check-report/4f3ffc
cazalla: you best find other targets bitbethelp
punkman: mpex is a much better target
bitbethelp: punkman, why so, it's used by 10 people tops
cazalla: why would anyone pay you to stop then bitbethelp ?
bitbethelp: cazalla, why do you still have this assumption i'm trying to extort you into paying me?
cazalla: than why are you doing this?
cazalla: then even
cazalla: see what you made me do bitbethelp, you made me drink all this beer
bitbethelp: maybe you could pay me to find out, lel
cazalla: do you take paypal?
bitbethelp: sec
mircea_popescu: * cazalla was raised a joho << o.O
cazalla: mircea_popescu, didn't mean i had to believe it
mircea_popescu: i never met one b4.
mircea_popescu: bitbethelp> cazalla, nor did I lose anything. it's not about the attempts where you don't get anything, but the attempts you succeed. << what is this fucktardry, srsly.
bitbethelp: every successful attack takes lots of attempts, some fruitless
mircea_popescu shrugs.
mircea_popescu: punkbot lol mating. apparently, every successful writing takes lots of attempts, some of which are... muitless.
assbot: manamex +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
BingoBoingo: !up manamex
manamex: BingoBoingo thanks
BingoBoingo: Sup?
Anduck: !up bitbethelp
manamex: new here, reading logs
BingoBoingo: Cool
jurov: ;;isup trilema.com
gribble: trilema.com is up
jurov: not from here
punkman: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/us/more-federal-agencies-are-using-undercover-operations.html
mircea_popescu: i always wondered what % of "operations" end when group #1 doing "undercover work" catches group #2.
punkman: indeed
BingoBoingo: I have to assume that's most of what they do now.
mircea_popescu: must suck lol
jurov: bitbethelp accused me of inadequate politeness cuz i did not respond timely to pm and in one breath promised coinbr is next after qntra
jurov: lol
punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdrCsB23GoU
BingoBoingo: !up sdffsd
BingoBoingo: !up Xuthus
decimation: those 'blasze.tk' links he put in the logs are ip loggers, probably trying to find more targets
mats_cd03: lol yes
mats_cd03: i wonder if kako has a proxy for assbot
jurov: ;;isup coinbr.com
gribble: coinbr.com is up
kakobrekla: mats_cd03 i do.
BingoBoingo: assbot has asses of proxy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 900 @ 0.00120197 = 1.0818 BTC [+] {6}
jurov: bitbethelp promised to drain my aws budget.. cleaarly these ddosing redditards did not do the math
kakobrekla: cant trust a redditard
assbot: manamex +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
BingoBoingo: !up manamex
manamex: got worned by bitbethelp everyone on this channel gets dosed
BingoBoingo: Eh
manamex: let's be it, why would anyone would want to do it, what is the point?
chetty: to act tough
manamex: never mind, not that it matters
BingoBoingo: Eh, kind of just like weather anymore.
asciilifeform: undercover agents << 'the man who was thursday.'
asciilifeform: or even 'a scanner darkly.'
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-10-2014#903730 << ascii reported wedge at 252450 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: got a wedge?
ben_vulpes: not yet.
asciilifeform: how far in?
ben_vulpes: backing up 245000 right now
ben_vulpes: if as you suspect it has to do with the cooccurrence of running out of memory and writing to bdb, i'll have to let it run for a while
asciilifeform: irreproducible bug is best bug.
ben_vulpes: what machine did you run yours on?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: recent 'intel' box with 8g
asciilifeform: (gentoo)
xanthyos: 3 days after buying coinbase bitcoins the progress bar is at the halfway mark
xanthyos: they deliberately slow themselves down to handicap daytraders
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell ragnardanneskjol http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-10-2014#888421 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-10-2014 18:38:56; mircea_popescu: except it should be explicitly exclusive rather than inclusive. "We will NOT work with unqualified third parties, which is to say parties that have not satisfied their log reading and wot presence prequalifications."
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00120366 = 1.2037 BTC [+] {9}
kakobrekla: asciilifeform do you find arm less evil for being risc?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: my dislike of 'arm' has very little to do with the architecture.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: but if you're thinking about the ancient 'risc vs cisc' debate, it isn't really any kind of contest today, as there is no architecture of past 20 yrs. or so design that could really be classified as a 'cisc'
kakobrekla: what, does 'cisc' sticker on the box make it sell faster?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: name a 'cisc' (that is, 'complete', or, in more practical terms, optimized for hand-written asm that is a minimum of pain to write -and- read) chip designed in recent years.
asciilifeform: (why? see http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55 etc)
assbot: Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it.
asciilifeform: no such animal.
kakobrekla: i did say sticker only.
asciilifeform: sticker?
asciilifeform: i must be missing something
kakobrekla: branding?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla is posting through time warp from 1985? i don't recall seeing 'risc' or 'cisc' mentioned on a crate, since, i don't know when
kakobrekla: isnt x86 branded as cisc ?
jurov: it was,2y ago
jurov: 20y ago
kakobrekla: idk
jurov: since pentium it is cisc with risc internals
asciilifeform: x86 is a cisc (interestingly, the internals of modern x86 compatibles are pure risc, with emulation layer for the ancient crud baked on)
asciilifeform: aha, jurov has it.
kakobrekla: aha
kakobrekla: ok
kakobrekla: bastards.
jurov: lol
asciilifeform: move to 'risc' was driven mainly by desire for auto-optimization (pipelining, out-of-order instruction sequencing) in the pursuit of 'fast' (see http://www.loper-os.org/?p=300 ) ☟︎
assbot: Loper OS » Going Nowhere Really Fast, or How Computers Only Come in Two Speeds.
asciilifeform: the only living representative of the cisc school of thought is the x86, which survives purely from symbiosis with microshit
asciilifeform: it also happens to be the worst known such architecture by virtually any conceivable measure.
jurov: i heard it has denser code(closer to c) and thus better cache effectivity
asciilifeform: for folks who are mystified by this thread, a 'risc' (reduced instruction set) cpu is typically one where 'instruction set fits in the back cover of your textbook.'
asciilifeform: if you did computer-anything engineering in school, you probably remember 'mips'
jurov: yes
asciilifeform: one of the things i often, usually to no avail, try to explain to people, is that there is no such thing as 'efficiency.' there is only efficiency -at- something.
jurov: probably efficiency measured in lines of c executed
asciilifeform: so, as described in my 'going nowhere' article, the modern winblows pc is in fact less efficient for virtually any practical purpose than its predecessors two decades earlier, despite a titanic amount of effort poured into the cpu micro-optimizations ☟︎
asciilifeform: there is a kind of 'bezzle' or, more precisely, 'dekulakization' dynamic involved, where cpu designers are really labouring to extend the life of idiot software ecosystem
asciilifeform: whose continued bloat is considered an immutable fact of life
asciilifeform: the dog eats and eats so the fleas can live.
jurov: i once read a piece on what everything is expected of today's text input field - clipboard handling, mouse selection, bidi input, undo/redo, font redering,...
asciilifeform: aha. rob pike.
jurov: if these requirememnts can be solved without heaping code
jurov: ?
jurov: i dunno
asciilifeform: well, if you are thinking of the ones you just stated, as opposed to everything listed in pike's talk,
asciilifeform: they were handily met by, e.g., symbolics lisp machine. mine has 4M of ram installed, which was considered large.
jurov: it has bidirectional input?
asciilifeform: bidirectional as in, e.g., arabic?
jurov: adn subpixel hiting?
asciilifeform: not afaik
jurov: yes arabic
jurov: *subpixel hiting
jurov: derrrrp hinting
asciilifeform: i cannot say for certain what these things would 'weigh' on such a machine, but can definitely bet that they would weigh considerably less (in terms of code complexity or sheer physical space) than on modern arch.
asciilifeform: on account of there being precisely one routine, used by everything on the box, which is responsible for character rendering; another for the input handling; etc
asciilifeform: sorta how a unix box with dynamic libs wishes it worked
asciilifeform: http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/rob/utah2000.ps
asciilifeform: ^ rob pike's talk, for those who never read
jurov: that hangs on presumption that list somehow magically prevents parallel standards/reimplementations
jurov: *lisp
asciilifeform: it wasn't the lisp actually
jurov: so that no X11-like explosion of toolkits would occur
asciilifeform: (for some odd reason, folks ignore the fact that 'symbolics' os happily ran fortran, pascal, ada, and yes, even c - code - on same box, and the proggys could share data structures)
asciilifeform: native os was implemented in 'zetalisp', a symbolics-proprietary predecessor of modern common lisp, yes.
jurov: okay i did not mean lisp as such, but the architecture as a whole
asciilifeform: jurov: it is always possible to crap in the kitchen. but folks who own a toilet, typically do not.
asciilifeform: once you remove the overwhelming incentive to do stupid things, you generally see less of them.
jurov: um. i'm not convinced that ever worked
asciilifeform: but even a gift of a solid gold toilet is no guarantee that the recipient of said gift won't prefer the kitchen sink.
asciilifeform was going to link jurov to kalman reti's film about smbx machine, but noticed that it was recently censored.
asciilifeform searches for backup
jurov: i have seen it when you linked it recently
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: it is by no means a complete picture, but gives the general idea.
asciilifeform: (who censored it, and why? i'd love to know)
mircea_popescu: uh ? what's missing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the film linked in an old post of mine: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=932
assbot: Loper OS » Kalman Reti, the Last Symbolics Developer, Speaks of Lisp Machines.
asciilifeform: http://people.csail.mit.edu/reti/SymbolicsTalk28June2012.m4v ☟︎
asciilifeform: ^ mirror
mircea_popescu: !up bobsiha
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/actual-bitcoin-corporations-abcs-versus-fiat-based-frauds-trying-to-masquerade-as-bitcoin-companies-while-masquerading-as-companies-in-the-first-place-on-the-solid-theory-that-the-general-public-i/
assbot: Actual Bitcoin corporations (ABCs) versus fiat-based frauds trying to masquerade as Bitcoin companies (while masquerading as companies in the first place) on the solid theory that the general public is too stupid to make any difference, this one included, and on the flimsy theory that the general public matters in Bitcoin (FBF-TTMABC-WMACITFP-OTSTTTGPITSTMAD-TOI-AOTFTTTGPMIBs, alphabets for short). pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: ^ titles are not enough for me!
xanthyos: !up thomas_d
Apocalyptic: http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2059
assbot: Shtetl-Optimized » Blog Archive » What does the NSA think of academic cryptographers? Recently-declassified document provides clues
thomas_d: ;;eregister thomas_d BBE4FD4CC1083523
gribble: Error: Could not retrieve your key from keyserver. Either it isn't there, or it is invalid.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: the paper in question is not only of 20 yrs. vintage, but officially released (not in any sense leaked)
mircea_popescu: lol not bad.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: hence, i'd take with 'grain of salt'
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, noted
asciilifeform: 'Desmedt referred to a letter written by Marty Hellman criticizing NIST. I had all but forgotten about Hellman; he has not been active on cryptologic scene in many years, and I've always had doubts about his moral principles (by contrast, I regard Rivest as being above all this dirt).'
asciilifeform: l0l!
chetty: Hellman caught them with their pants down didn't he?
thomas_d: ;;eregister thomas_d BBE4FD4CC1083523
gribble: Error: Could not retrieve your key from keyserver. Either it isn't there, or it is invalid.
thomas_d: Do you usually need to wait a little while after exporting cert to server?
thomas_d: I just did it about 30 seconds ago
thomas_d: ;;eregister thomas_d BBE4FD4CC1083523
gribble: Error: Could not retrieve your key from keyserver. Either it isn't there, or it is invalid.
xanthyos: thomas_d: do it in PM so it doesn't congest the chat
xanthyos: bagels7 had the same error i think
mircea_popescu: thomas_d bout an hour or so
thomas_d: cool
thomas_d: I should introduce myself anyway my name is thomas dick I'm a noob
Apocalyptic: <thomas_d> Do you usually need to wait a little while after exporting cert to server? // yes you do
mircea_popescu: your name seriously is dick ?
asciilifeform: chetty: i've found the letter in question: http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/12.63.html#subj1
assbot: The Risks Digest Volume 12: Issue 63
Apocalyptic: give it 1-2 hours
thomas_d: dick is my middle name
xanthyos: heh
thomas_d: but I go by thomas dick
mircea_popescu: lol
thomas_d: are there any regulations/guidelines on the chatting here, or anything goes?
kakobrekla: so what do you do thomas?
thomas_d: can't see anything in the topic
thomas_d: I'm in an entry-level IT position
mircea_popescu: well the general idea is to spend a while reading the logs
asciilifeform: thomas_d: programmer ?
mircea_popescu: then this and such questions tend to answer themselves.
thomas_d: nah service desk
thomas_d: networks
mircea_popescu: "Don Beaver (Penn State), in another era, would have been a spellbinding charismatic preacher; young, dashing (he still wears a pony-tail), self-confident and glib, he has captured from Silvio Micali the leadership of the philosophic wing of the U.S. East Coast cryptanalytic community."
mircea_popescu: here's a q for you asciilifeform : if i were the big bad and you were my officer in charge of fucking nerdcore up, and the strategy was, "inject a person whom on the basis of sheer animal magnetism can be used to steer things ways",
mircea_popescu: would you hire a man or a woman for this task ?
asciilifeform: depends on the designated chumps, no?
mircea_popescu: supposing you have a person printing machine, can make them up to spec.
asciilifeform: what'd a 'nerdcore' anyway
mircea_popescu: well, the designated chumps, "the U.S. East Coast cryptanalytic community"
mircea_popescu: a nerdcore is roughly what "academia" is : adding words to specified idiocy to make it palatable. it's not a buncha derps, because CORE.
asciilifeform: not being one of the designated chumps in question, i'd ask for a subverted greybeard. but i am not a doctor of chumpatronics, and may be naive here.
mircea_popescu: uh. how'd that work ?
asciilifeform: e.g. schneier
xanthyos: a person printing machine like from kafka's "in the penal colony"
mircea_popescu: ~ on the basis of sheer animal magnetism ~
mircea_popescu: gotta stick to the strat yo.
asciilifeform: i'd have picked him based on his 'street cred' from his service in the '90s crypto wars
mircea_popescu: but thats out of scope.
asciilifeform: if question specifically concerns 'animal magnetism' - difficult to answer. most of the chumpatronic work involved, i doubt would win from this stratagem. i, for instance, have never (to my knowledge) been within musket distance of a live cryptographer (of whatever variety)
mircea_popescu: but we are discussing the nerdcore.
mircea_popescu: you know, like bitcoincore.
asciilifeform: ergo i need to be chumped with paper
asciilifeform: and how many of these chumps are chumped in a lecture hall, and not with paper?
mircea_popescu: i think most.
asciilifeform: seriously?
asciilifeform: how many of the 'tardstalk' folks have seen gavin alive
mircea_popescu: the reason the remnant is so insistent on "real world" vs "trolls" perhaps follows a simple calculation
asciilifeform: i, for example, don't even know what he looks like
mircea_popescu: "we have a this which works and a that which sort-of works and is more expensive"
mircea_popescu: i would bet you 100% have.
mircea_popescu: no exceptions.
asciilifeform: well, not knowingly
mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Silvio_Micali_IMG_0459.jpg << this, incidentally, is whom "leadership" was captured...from.
asciilifeform: for all i know, lizard hitler rides elevator with me every day
asciilifeform does not recall seeing this mug before
mircea_popescu: so basically, not your kind of job ?
asciilifeform: unfortunately not.
asciilifeform: although, now that you mention it,
asciilifeform: reading the ancient 'cryptolog', i can almost hear a tone of voice
mircea_popescu: you can can't you.
asciilifeform: and it sounds very much like certain other persons
mircea_popescu: this is how the fucking problem with "releases" go.
xanthyos: ;;gettrust thomas_d
mircea_popescu: it is functionally impossible to make a release that works for *any* evnetual readers.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user xanthyos to user thomas_d: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=xanthyos&dest=thomas_d | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=thomas_d | Rated since: never
asciilifeform: it isn't even 'cold psychopath' or the like. it is the basic tone of voice of the 'mean gurlz' who are, between sentences, cackling at the 'goodies' their gurlz club is privy to
asciilifeform: vs. the chumpers
asciilifeform: now that this came up, i will say that i have seen this alive
asciilifeform: as in, actual (former) friends who took up the cloak of the beast, and their patterns of speech actually changed.
asciilifeform: similar to how men who have sat in russian prison, have detectably characteristic patterns of speech
asciilifeform: specifically not speaking of vocabulary or idiomatisms here
asciilifeform: but patterns.
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i can imagine only with great difficulty that a usg cryptologist of any actual stature (that is, creator of, or even privy to, a 'crown jewel') would be permitted to make public so much as a newspaper ad for a dog walker, much less a document pertaining to his profession.
asciilifeform: (an internal report marked 'confidential' should be regarded as a public document for the purpose of this statement.)
asciilifeform: 'confidential' is the lowest level of classification in usg.
asciilifeform: about on par with a receipt for pizza at the office.
mircea_popescu: ok, let me put this in a different light.
asciilifeform: the author is likely an 'outer circle' man.
mircea_popescu: out of the 100k or so academics trudging for us-academia-wot, how many are likely to publish their research like i do, on trilema, just like that ?
asciilifeform: kept around, permitted to work on problems in his circle of interests among his own kind, but generally kept away from anything 'jewel'-like.
mircea_popescu: not a matter of "permitted" per se.
asciilifeform: us-academia or 'intelligence komyoonity' ?
asciilifeform: rather different animals
asciilifeform: (similar in some interesting ways, but kept in separate tanks at the zoo)
mircea_popescu: separate but identical ?
asciilifeform: i have personally only taken a swim in the larger tank, the former
asciilifeform: cannot speak for the smaller tank
asciilifeform: but among generic u.s. mathemasturbators, unaffiliated with nsa et al, it is quite common to post 'preprints' on www.
mircea_popescu: anonymously ?
asciilifeform: no, on their official university www, typically
asciilifeform: often, even now, as 'postscript' turds
mircea_popescu: so in short : people who make their living cutting beards are not likely to be seen cutting beards outside of the place where this pays.
asciilifeform: well, they also tend to use their barbershops as homes. in the sense that many academics keep personal blog-type material on the same site.
asciilifeform: (herr kokkarinen, before anyone asks, did not)
asciilifeform: example: http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/purtilo
asciilifeform: ^ met very briefly in meatspace
mircea_popescu: http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/purtilo/Despair/image011.jpg << srsly ?
mircea_popescu: a much better caption would be minsky with his eyes closed.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: i think that actually hangs in the hall where he works.
mircea_popescu: manamex: got worned by bitbethelp everyone on this channel gets dosed << lol we're speshul.
ben_vulpes: ;;isup trilema.com
gribble: trilema.com is up
ben_vulpes: hogwash
asciilifeform: aha dead.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 21 @ 0.09372684 = 1.9683 BTC [+] {10}
ben_vulpes: http://40.media.tumblr.com/07be76749f6cc892986bfae1bce601a2/tumblr_ndjcrgdsNm1u1v4zpo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: reminiscent of bucky fuller's dumps
ben_vulpes: rather.
assbot: thomas_d +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
asciilifeform: !up thomas_d
thomas_d: yo i registered
thomas_d: :)
xanthyos: ;;rate thomas_d 1 known on tinychat for a while. seals with clubs player.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user thomas_d has been recorded.
thomas_d: ;;rate thomas_d 1 real stand-up guy
gribble: Error: You cannot rate yourself.
thomas_d: damn
thomas_d: ;;rate xanthyos 1 good upbringing
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user xanthyos has been recorded.
xanthyos: heh
joecool: ;;gettrust joecool
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask joecool!~joecool@no-sources/joecool. Trust relationship from user joecool to user joecool: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 66 via 38 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=joecool&dest=joecool | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=joecool | Rated since: Thu Apr 28 14:23:15 2011
asciilifeform: http://oddlinuxstrings.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/gpg-binarys-strings
asciilifeform: (especially entertaining in light of the 'strings' bug)
joecool: !s strings
assbot: 517 results for 'strings' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=strings
asciilifeform: joecool: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-10-2014#897906 (and below) ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-10-2014 00:39:54; asciilifeform: http://lcamtuf.blogspot.com/2014/10/psa-dont-run-strings-on-untrusted-files.html
joecool: yeah i see it
decimation: asciilifeform: much more lulzy in that cryptolog is the section on 'TQM'
decimation: "NSA as an institution, however has become a TQM believer, born again in the gospel of Deming"
decimation: !s deming
assbot: 0 results for 'deming' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=deming
asciilifeform: deming is reasonably famous
decimation: deming et. al. were kind of cult 'self-help' experts for managers
asciilifeform: aha.
decimation: this book goes into some detail on the history of the supposed 'efficiency experts' like deming http://books.google.com/books?id=t1IOQWG3hckC
asciilifeform: have not read this, but it appears to 'drink the koolaid'
asciilifeform: and so, of limited interest
decimation: his theory (which is somewhat convoluted) is that us business was ruined in the post-wwII boom because traditional management (in the line-and-staff model) were being replaced by 'staff' instead of competent 'line'
decimation: really, it traces the general breakdown of social heirarchy expounded in the logs
decimation: in fact, there's a parallel between the 'cisc' vs. 'risc' efficiency argument you make (efficient at what?) and the demingites (we make your people more efficient - details unimportant!)
asciilifeform: well, the real boojum (as described, for example, by mircea_popescu) is that the optimization folks did not put the task as 'build $widget using less steel, rubber, hours of slave' but 'build $widget more bezzleprofitably' which usually leads to 'build $widget-prime and try to pass off to chumpers as genuine $widget'
asciilifeform: $widget-prime is normally some debased/inferior version
asciilifeform: !s zamac
assbot: 12 results for 'zamac' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=zamac
asciilifeform: etc
asciilifeform: just about everyone (except the usual suspects) can 'agree to have' the folks cranking out debased fiat currencies, but they are not the only (and possibly not even the most interesting) 'counterfeiters'
asciilifeform: *agree to hate
asciilifeform: one example, randomly pulled out of a hat, is 'solid state hard disk'
asciilifeform: where increased densities are presently being achieved in a way which guarantees a speedier death through ion migration
asciilifeform: but i (or anyone else here) could sit for a week, coughing up examples of this, and not come close to running out
asciilifeform: !s shrinkflation
assbot: 4 results for 'shrinkflation' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=shrinkflation
jurov: you're supposed to throw everything out after x months, didn't you get the memo?
asciilifeform: x minutes
asciilifeform: per latest memo!
undata: how much more "prepared for total war" can ukraine get?
undata: this ww3 cocktease is getting old
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, ssd's are a good example. and note that nearly all manufacturers neglect to make clear how they are driving their flash and what kind fo flash it is
cazalla: i guess ddos is back :\
kakobrekla: down for 2h 18m