mircea_popescu: davout everyone can now be a "developer". even idiots.
davout: mircea_popescu: o hey, what are you referring to?
mircea_popescu: the "o look mom, i made a github commit. it changes the spelling of comments" thing
mircea_popescu: PeterL there's a difference between the innocent and the stupid.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22950 @ 0.00050894 = 11.6802 BTC [+] {2}
davout: ah, yea lol, i had a look to see if this chick had any other commits on the project, seems like it's her sole 'contribution' to the whole thing
mircea_popescu: whole slew of these, the cleaning lady wants to be "part of the team" nao.
davout: by this account i'm a core contributor to bitcoin too, i reset testnet once, fuck it
mircea_popescu: PeterL weren't you a biochemist by trade dabbling into code as a hobby recently ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they don't have cleaning ladies in the classic sense, which is why conde nast is writing memos to the "journos" about keeping the place clean.
mircea_popescu: apparently nobody heard of a "shut.the.fuck.up.and.hire.cleaning.crew.cheapskates."
mircea_popescu: same here, but who the fuck knows what they do in the soviet republic of san francisco.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: keyids are evil << yeh davout. stop thinking about short keyids bs.
davout: well, i was just reading about them in the deedbot spec
davout: i'll let you read the convo
davout: it does, it doesn't however return fingerprints
davout: that implies you have the key in your keyring
davout: asciilifeform: well, keyid is a part of the fpr afaik
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform keyid is the last 16 chars of the 40 char fignerprint. and then there's an 8 char shit too. neither of these last two are any good, but hey, "usability". crap.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: the point is MAPPING is bad << he understands.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.0005114 = 4.2702 BTC [+] {2}
Apocalyptic: mircea, what is your pastebin supposed to show ?
davout: if you don't have the key in your ring it won't know the fpr
Apocalyptic: it does show "Primary key fingerprint: 6160 E1CA C8A3 C529 66FD 7699 8A73 6F0E 2FB7 B452" because you have you own key in your keyring obviously
mircea_popescu: davout if you don';t have the key you can't verify signatures, dork!
davout: lol, deedbot isn't supposed to verify sigs amirite
Apocalyptic: well this was the whole point of the discussion
Apocalyptic: and according to davout it's not supposed ot verify
mircea_popescu: well apparently it just became required to verify cause otherwise it can't talk to assbot.
davout: mircea_popescu: with the fingerprint for a key it could simply do what you said wrt requesting trust data as a json blob from the w.b-a.link thing
davout: s/for a key/for a sig/
mircea_popescu: davout but assbot won't respond unless he queries by fingerprints.
davout: yea that's the whole problem
mircea_popescu: IF gpg doesn't put out full fingerprints for verified keys, then gpg is broken
mircea_popescu: gpg: Signature made Sat 21 Aug 1999 07:04:31 PM ART using DSA key ID 8ACE3E79
davout: the crux is 'verified keys', if deedbot doesn't maintain a full keyring at all times it can't pull fingerprints
davout: this sounds a bit overkill to me
mircea_popescu: feel free to fork and fix the gpg key verification process so it reports fingerpritns properly not wtf it's doing now.
davout: gpg can't know the fpr for a key it doesn't have, the information isn't part of the signature packet
Apocalyptic: mircea, note that neither the "-v" nor the "--with-fingerprint" flags are required to get the fingerprint line displayed
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2015 22:34:54; davout: asciilifeform: yeah, that's what i was reading, it mentions user ids in the subpackets spec, but i'm unsure whether that includes an actual key fingerprint, i tend to understand that it doesn't
mircea_popescu: dude rms, you saved 24 bytes aren't you a smart fucking cookie.
mircea_popescu: davout only possible workaround seems keeping the lordship keys.
PeterL: would it be hard to maintain a keyring with all us in it?
mircea_popescu: which i guess is not that bad, seeing how it also solves the problem of the untrustworthy pgp-sks etc
davout: anyway, my point wrt to deedbot is that it's supposed to be used by ppl with L1/L2 trust, it doesn't need to check gpg signatures, so let anyone with +v in -assets use it, do away with the requirement that a keyid belonging to someone in assbot's wot be presented or maliciously hammered into the message
mircea_popescu: so i guess ima have to modify the spec instead of finishing my "on terrorism' article.
mircea_popescu: davout how do you propose to query assbot for l1/l2 inclusion ?
davout: whoever has voice in -assets shall be deemed worthy to notarize
undata: this was my entire rant
davout: greatly simplifies the problem, don't see too much downside to it, and we're eventually moving to gossipd anyway
mircea_popescu: i give voice to all the whores, not to mention all sorts of known usg agents
PeterL: but you would still need keys to verify deed signatures?
undata: why should gpg exist; irc is apparently all we ever needed
davout: and notary would be connected through asswot's gossipd's node anyway
PeterL: oh, do deeds even need to be gpg signed?
undata: mircea_popescu: I am being facetious, and argued earlier for sig verification
davout: let whores timestamp some blobs now and then i say
undata: I'm hacking on something now, but will wait for an updated spec
PeterL: why sign if you are not verifying?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00050843 = 5.5419 BTC [-]
davout: undata: you fail to comprehend that it's not deedbot's job to certify to a third party that the contract is signed by an identified party, gpg already does that
davout: wrt to your earlier example of me scamming you, anybody can verify i signed the contract by using gpg itself
undata: davout: its output should be the history of valid deeds, not "that which a rubber stamp has touched"
davout: why the hell would it need deedbot to testify to that too ?
undata: god... do the proceedings of court note that a pidgeon shat on the window?
undata: have you ever been to a notary?
davout: why do you absolutely want to shoehorn your conception of a notary into deedbot?
undata: do you know what a deed is?
undata: or why one has it observed by a 3rd party?
davout: we don't need Z to witness that X and Y signed a contract together, because any party can and will use GPG
davout: and properly verify that fact
davout: why would Z's word add any value to the information GPG outputs?
punkman: it doesn't really, but it's useful nonetheless
undata: keeps the published bundles down to a size that is manageable
undata: keeps it from being filled with useless crud with invalid sigs
davout: wtf is this size bzns?
undata: size for hands and eyeballs to verify
Apocalyptic: <undata> keeps it from being filled with useless crud with invalid sigs << this sounds pretty reasonable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00050726 = 7.6596 BTC [-]
punkman: davout, I'll just say that there were many cases with invalid signatures posted as deeds
davout: the whole point here is to let ppl with L2/L1 trust timestamp stuff
mircea_popescu: the point is to let them create and let the whole world trust and be able to verify.
davout: what is privilege if not the differentiation from the un-privileged?
undata: mircea_popescu: I read the payment as coming from the party wanting a signature, not the bot?
undata: seems fair to me; pay per use
mircea_popescu: but dun worry about it, i seeded the prev one an' ill seed this one too.
mircea_popescu: davout it gotta be one way. if there's four people and they fuck in two subsets of twos, that's segregation. if there's one that fucks all other three but the rest only jack off, that's privilege.
mircea_popescu: is "and pushes it to public repositories" a point of contention ?
PeterL: wouldn't keys already be public when registering with assbot?
davout: mircea_popescu: well, now the bot needs a key too :-)
mircea_popescu: PeterL idea kinda is to make a further record of people's sigs, help guard them against mitm and other nefariousness. but as davout points out, now the bot needs a key.
PeterL: did it not have a key before?
mircea_popescu: which makes shit more complicated. however, it also makes shit perhaps better defensible ? i dunno.
davout: i don't really see a use for that
davout: and if the signature on the blob is required only for access control, maybe it's be better to leverage asswot's functionality directly
mircea_popescu: davout nah, it's required for inclusion in bthe actual deed.
davout: as in 'wanna timestamp some stuff? fine, verify with and otp"
davout: say i want to timestamp a contract i made with someone also in the L2 group as nested clearsigns, i doesn't really matter which signature is checked by deedbot, right?
davout: yeah well, i wanted to point out that it didn't really prevent anyone from checking the inner sig at home
davout: i just fail to see a good reason to make the signatures mandatory, outside of access control that is
mircea_popescu: so that someone in 3714, with nothing but an inscription of deedbot's deeds, can verify our contracts just as well as we can.
mircea_popescu: this is the point of notarization : making the acts of men equal to the acts of god.
davout: maybe we'll want to timestamp something else than contracts is what i'm thinking
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform factorization trivially defeated by better key putting it into record :(
PeterL: you can timestamp whatever you want, as long as gpg signed first
davout: that's how is spec'd yes :-)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but suppose your 4kb key is factorized. this matter is discovered by joe on june 19th, 3211. he signs, with his 64kb key, a note saying so.
mircea_popescu: now, come 3714, it will be clear that uses ulterior to 3211 are null. but it will also be clear that uses prior to say, 3200 will still hold
davout: asciilifeform: also if you see a message signed with your key, and timestamped 200 years after your first timestamped message you can reasonably assumed it's been broken
davout: say i timestamp sth in 2014
davout: any timestamping after 2114 is null and void, problem solves itself
PeterL: I don't suppose people pass keys down to their heirs?
undata: davout: this business of making assumptions is not how it's done...
davout: PeterL: well, sign something to this effect, otherwise timestamps are inherently suspicious, esp. if factorization is possible given state of current technology
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.00050035 = 25.5179 BTC [-] {2}
davout: undata: which assumption are you referring to?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.125 = 1.375 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <PeterL> I don't suppose people pass keys down to their heirs? << people well might.
mircea_popescu: what exactly is inheritance if not this, fundamentally, inheriting father's FIRM. ie, signature.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00050949 = 8.8651 BTC [+] {3}
undata: asciilifeform: still seems father would sign a public statement granting his possessions to a son
undata: asciilifeform: I was agreeing :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26898 @ 0.00049826 = 13.4022 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can't forge past because you can' register old deeds.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, the notary blockchain stamping mechanism.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6902 @ 0.00049826 = 3.439 BTC [-]
undata: mircea_popescu: I get "No data" from the link in your spec article, and when I substitute my key's fingerprint
mircea_popescu: w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4/json
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61600 @ 0.0005047 = 31.0895 BTC [+] {3}
undata: mircea_popescu: ah right, two parameters makes sense; the article has one
undata: the spec intends assbots fingerprint is one param?
mircea_popescu: you're supposed to replace the other one with the key you're looking for
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67400 @ 0.00048005 = 32.3554 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00047837 = 7.4626 BTC [-]
cazalla: rate Rozal -3 threatened to rate me -10 because he doesn't understand how the WoT actually works, see
http://pastebin.com/PABNbsex for conversation, offered to then pay me to remove the -1 earning him a -3
cazalla: ah, clearly i gots to learn the new assbot rules, been a little busy
cazalla: oh, that's right :) all good, did it in pm now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51166 @ 0.00047822 = 24.4686 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: one wonders how much of this kind of thing he has left in 'reserve'
PeterL: and is it just going to get juicier as time goes on?
decimation: actually the 'bios erasure' thing calls to mind this news story back in 2013
decimation: asciilifeform: right, but it is amusing to look at the sudden panic over 'evil foreign erasure virus' when that's exactly what they have been working on (apparently)
decimation: or email address, that we can't penetrate that, that's a problem.""
mircea_popescu: it prevented the middle east issues for well over 5 centuries.
mircea_popescu: thus accomplishing more than western europe + north america, by a damned sight.
mircea_popescu: whenever people like taleb think of peace in their homeland,
mircea_popescu: they're really thinking of something that was utopia pre and probably post osmanli.
undata is in progress haggling a new computer out of lenovo
undata: asciilifeform: I'd not mind if you hurried up making a computer that works for me :D
decimation: did you ask him who had to pay for the backup UPS
cazalla: mircea_popescu, anything that's good, does
decimation: my understanding is that verzion 'gives' you an ups that you must maintain
decimation: right, but who replaces the inevitable dead battery?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57750 @ 0.0004784 = 27.6276 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: in the past, with copper, this was the phone company's responsibility
decimation: I've heard that once verzion runs fiber to your premises, they typically take the time to rip out the old copper wire
decimation: because they don't want to be held to 'common carrier' standards of common access and maintenance
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is weird. in romania they keep the end battery on the pole next to you
mircea_popescu: and it's still illegal to fuck with the copper in yurp.
decimation: in the past, the copper wires were 'powered' by the telephone company in its central office
mircea_popescu: cazalla i skimmed it. dude's begging you and errything. he's nobody i heard of, prolly some noob.
cazalla: but he has so many ratings from otc from all his $5 buys!
decimation: not for any technical reason, but because of the assorted pile of usg policy & requirements that apply to 'common carrier' services like telephone
cazalla: anyway, he came looking for me, not me him, just as easy to neg rate him and move on with it
mircea_popescu: decimation imo destroying the copper infrastructure is even dumber than destroying the family infrastructure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00047726 = 20.8801 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 02-05-2014 21:22:05; asciilifeform: copper is expensive - not merely the metal, but maintenance - keeping water out of the cable ducts, etc. the telcos would hurry to be rid of it even the removal did not speed the arrival of arsenet.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure most landline infrastructure in eastern europe has never been maintained in any sense since at least 1985
mircea_popescu: was that the one when they drenched the vaults ? lost ~10 trn worth of old paper ?
decimation: asciilifeform: actually I thought there were areas where they 'gave up' and decided not to rebuild any phone system
mircea_popescu: decimation i doubt they would meet my definition. things like "every boy under 16 must have 4 acres of forested hillside and a dog"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc it's one of those where existence is mandatory but no-one's responsibility. so...
assbot: Disaster, meet opportunity: Verizon's plan to push wireless on copper landline customers | The Verge ... (
http://bit.ly/1IQnsFx )
decimation: asciilifeform: there are at least two main reasons for this: 1.) it is illegal to 'telemarket' to mobile phones and 2.) landlines are billed at outrageous rates
decimation had a landline for years, became enraged that a $2 per month service became $40 after taxes & fees
mircea_popescu: "famine is a disaster that opens the door to opportunity : you can swallow knots!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11444 @ 0.00047709 = 5.4598 BTC [-]
decimation: \me wonders if lizzard hitler's purpose with these releases is simply to distribute digital contraband for later reckoning
mircea_popescu: who the fuck woud be stupid enough to use a protocol for this job ?!
mircea_popescu: that's actually the difference between artist and script kiddie.
mircea_popescu: that's basically the long and the short of it. nsa = national scriptkiddie association. a glorified derp club.
kakobrekla: skriptkiddies in your gpg sigs messing with your keyid.
decimation: asciilifeform: what about the meta-nsa part?
mircea_popescu: davout: Apocalyptic: RFC 5.2.2 sez a signature packet contains "Eight-octet Key ID of signer" << seriously in shock/denial about this.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00047677 = 2.7176 BTC [-]
PeterL: might as well put their initials instead of signing their name
mircea_popescu: decimation yes but a single watsapp "could buy all of russia".
PeterL: let me sign this important legal documet: "X"
PeterL: yeah, I know it is not quite the same thing
mircea_popescu: i guess most initial combos have about 10ish mn possible representatives.
decimation: one wonders how much of that list is simply parlor tricks vs. 'fired in anger'
decimation: the implication of your statement being that the office even has a coherent agenda
mircea_popescu: dude, they're selling themselves as something more than "zack & miri make an agency"
PeterL: sharks, with frickin lazer beams attached to their heads
mircea_popescu: and they are teh premier unemployable math grad student cemetery.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49700 @ 0.00047436 = 23.5757 BTC [-] {3}
decimation: asciilifeform: of course, said 'pill' couldn't have been 'fired in anger' either? don't need higher math to understand the implications
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35127 @ 0.00046975 = 16.5009 BTC [-] {2}
Adlai: SQUEAMISHOSSIFRAGE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.00047689 = 13.3052 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai: congratulations on replacing the WoT's centralized point of failure with another centralized point of failure!
Adlai: dunno, i authed with gribble as usual, then messaged assbot !up, and had to auth with him as well
Adlai: (this is why my joke came three minutes late)
mircea_popescu: Adlai that's the idea. looky here : gribble/wot was created a few years ago,. when btc was worth nothing and nobody bothered distinguishing between taaki and gavin.
mircea_popescu: then bitcoin became more valuable than all of san francisco combined
mircea_popescu: nanotube's idea was to re-create the wot as a p2p thing of sorts, and he's been working at it for a while, but hey. it's hard.
mircea_popescu: my idea was to simply network a bunch of centralised gribbles.
Adlai: won't gossipd mitigate this to some extent?
Adlai: using a wot to reduce spam/noise
mircea_popescu: well, once completed gossipd actually is a fully decentralized wot keeper, sure.
Adlai: maybe you should've called it cssipd
Adlai: it's subtle but you'll get it eventually :)
felipelalli: qntra.net for me is the more serious and reliable source of information about bitcoin nowdays, there is something similar?
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2015 23:35:28; mircea_popescu: that pretty much means c - only you realise ?
Adlai: don't rum and logs
Adlai: btcmiami is a disappointment, we were robbed of our chance to hear the great garza speak
Adlai consoled himself by asking the nice salespeople at the paybase booth whether he could point his mining hardware at zenpool
mircea_popescu: what's gavin dressed up as this time ? perianne boring ?
Adlai: hey now, bfl miners exist, i have one as a doorstop since it doesn't work anymore
Adlai: well the conf did yield one good thing, a new idiom: "bullshit bingo"
decimation: Adlai: had you ever been to miami before? how did it strike you?
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> i wasn't probably ever cing to get it. << you fucks, in five years nobody's going to be able to read the logs who hasn't been here for six lol
Adlai: hanbot: s/go/c/pls
Adlai: and they should be able to get it, the context is right there
Adlai: decimation: first time here. this may be the most touristy place i've ever visited
decimation: first time I went there it struck me as a shithole
mircea_popescu: coming from someone who lives in israel... that's pretty damning.
decimation: except for the tiny skin of civilization near the water, the city is a giant slum
mircea_popescu: whole country is essentially a "we were too cheap to actulaly build the disneyland but we're selling tickets to it anyway"
Adlai: not just israel, tel aviv. so SoBe be worse.
mircea_popescu: Adlai btw saw a sight today in ba jewish quarter. guy with proper astrakhan hat, plus two kids in full costume.
mircea_popescu: you know the ones where wearer looks like he's put a cake on his head ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14747 @ 0.00046904 = 6.9169 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc my history, the thing was actually invented by volga tatars
Adlai: in the (badly remembered, can't be bothered to watch all his youtube videos to find the exact) words of the great Pat Condell: "they'd rather the world returned to the stone age, aside from a brief excursion into seventeenth century poland for some clothes"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a proper russian hat is about there also. sable or w/e.
Adlai: orthodox jewish women don't get to wear the fancy stuff
Adlai: they have to cover up, although not as much as the cousins
Adlai: they have these hideous hair covering things
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is to be tried. deck the nude chicks in fox, sable, hermeline, etc. wear blindfold. have fun.
mircea_popescu: expensive fur is expensive for very good reasons that can't really be grasped fully untill you rub your cock on it.
Adlai: we'll leave the zoophilic overtones as an exercise to the astute log-reader
mircea_popescu: today we learn hermeline is actually stoats in english.
aabtc: brutal market lately
mircea_popescu: a) ibm is a real estate agency ; b) proof of concept = vaporware ; c) buzzword-buzzword-something-buzzword.
Adlai: also, coindesk publish press releases as articles in return for money
Adlai: (not that most other "news" sites, on all topics, don't do this)
mircea_popescu: Adlai the worse part being that they're innocent enough to not know that's a dumb business model.
mircea_popescu: davout: "Implementations SHOULD NOT assume that Key IDs are unique", so let's just include that in the signature packet. derp << no, seriously.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44623 @ 0.00048022 = 21.4289 BTC [+]
Adlai: seems to be working well for them so far, guy at the conference said that coindesk is a reliable news source so it must be
Adlai: ("i use coindesk and zeroblock. the forums and reddit are good for laughs, but have lots of trolls and altcoins")
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: original pgp was not an apparatus for one-off deals with strangers, but something to use between friends, as i understand. << what you say is accurate, but doesn't excuse. suppose i knock up a girl, and the blastule in her folds goes "hey, daddy's cock was crooked, so let's make the baby's cunt crooked too. nothing like baking in random assumptionbs for no good reason!"
Adlai: original btc was an experiment, doesn't excuse treating it as "just an experiment" nowadays
mircea_popescu: undata: because terrorists can't find an old copy of gpg? << gun laws aren't predicated on the theory that criminals can't find a gun.
mircea_popescu: they're predicated on the theory that ustardian faggots really enjoy the feeling of a stretched rectum, and politicians are essentially whores : in the business of pleasing the customer with the least possible effort.
Adlai: another quote from miami: "bitcoin is the only technology with a price feed". me: "bullshit, bitcoin has no price feed, although each person in this room has their own slightly differing one"
undata: mircea_popescu: the unending theatre can be maddening
Adlai: (this was in a comparison of bitcoin to tcp/ip or smtp... "you can't short SMTP when your inbox takes forever to load"
mircea_popescu: people this stupid should really be put to some sort of use.
kakobrekla: re conference , im disappointed to find out chief scammer did not show up
mircea_popescu: check it out asciilifeform , one step closer to slavecoin
Adlai: just didn't have a presentation
Adlai: he's here along with lady and the goons
Adlai: at first i was so glad, "ah, some diversity in the conference patrons!"
Adlai: and then i recognized his hairdo
Adlai: and realized the roles of his entourage
Adlai: phone died, no pics. maybe tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: how tall is she ? cup size ? natural ? cheap dress ? tall enough heels ? can she walk on em ?
Adlai: i'm pretty sure there are pics of his family on reddit, probably posted by some angsty idiot after realizing he'd never get his hashpoints back
mircea_popescu: "I am so proud of my wife Sandra! She is such a hard working women!"
Adlai: hmmmmmmmm that sandra does not look like the lady i saw with him
Adlai: but money does wonderful things, like surgery for the lady AND the mistress!
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you don't understand how the baptist worlkd works!
Adlai: genius at work is not "jeff garza", unless he's another one of these namechanging shapeshifters
Adlai: but if you're gonna pick a new scammername, why take "josh"? that one is already taken...
assbot: How the other half lives, or Michael O. Church is a scummy fuckwit pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1IQLxvL )
mircea_popescu: i give you even money she's contributing to open source projects, doing his/their substitutions.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i'm kinda waiting for the moment when broken code is defended as "different perceptions of software". why should it fixed ? it's not a bug, it's a rights issue!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the misshapen face seems more concerning. haircut easy to fix, buzzcut still required for moloday a
mircea_popescu: teenager's affiliation is worth about the same governmental promises are worth.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56050 @ 0.00046933 = 26.3059 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Spending all your time figuring out what kind of “-ism” you and your friends believe in so that you can call each other “whatever-ists” is no way to improve the world. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1IR2fv3 )
pete_dushenski: ha well these neoreactionist kids are pretty darn confused so it'd be a fair reflection of that
pete_dushenski: like us with no interest or understanding in the workings of power, economics, or politics
pete_dushenski: "neoreaction is a specific discovery of the arrow of time, within the field of political philosophy. It learns, and then teaches, that the way to get out cannot be the way we got in."
mircea_popescu: well the quote salad certainly doesn't seem to mean anything
pete_dushenski: i spent a bit of time trying to grok them since they came across my desk this week and it's really quite challenging to find much positive in their thinking
pete_dushenski: but some of them seem to enjoy contravex so there's that
mircea_popescu: well, by now more brands than people, so... not to worry.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu the number of brands these kids have is... shocking
pete_dushenski: apparently there's even something called neocameralism
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: have you read jaynes' original?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes biz is going well. would be better with van ads ;)
ben_vulpes: haw, ain't no money in advertisements.
ben_vulpes: biz biz tho - how is it? buy any bonds?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes nah, not really into that fiat thing, was really more just curious how easy/hard it'd be,
ben_vulpes: just out of curiosity, how do you procure bezzlebuxx?
pete_dushenski: rounding corners and squeezing opportunities, to be as vague as humanly possible
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes my guess is either he's running a high end brothel out of the preppy sluts he grew up with, or else he's living off teh fambly fortune.
ben_vulpes: my bet is that the cars blog poops out the odd benjamine
ben_vulpes: (that's what they call it in french canada, right?)
ben_vulpes: you'll offend mircea_popescu's linkrot sensibilities
ben_vulpes: till you got kicked off the circuit lol
pete_dushenski: plus, i sorta got myself banned from a few press fleets after failing to tow the party line..
ben_vulpes: but hey "tow the party line" at least you got a decent pun out of it
ben_vulpes: at least you're not stooping so far as to toe the clutch
ben_vulpes: <assbot> [] Venture Capital investment in Silicon Valley hits dot-com boom levels • The Register ... (
http://bit.ly/1IQpMME ) << task for eager student: calculate ROI for each VC firm based on known investments and exits
ben_vulpes: easymoad: just use crunchbase, propose a decent discount factor
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes better task : a dead pool / fucked company blog & stuff
pete_dushenski: "Neoreactionary socio-political solutions are ultimately Exit-based. In every case, exit is to be defended against voice. No society or social institution which permits free exit is open to any further politically efficient criticism, except that which systematic exit selection itself applies. Given the absence of tyranny (i.e. free exit), all forms of protest and rebellion are to be
pete_dushenski: considered leftist perversions, without entitlement to social protection of any kind." << i can't make this shit up
ben_vulpes: a new fucked company presumes someone who can "write" scathing..."blog posts"
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski that is actually a valid point. certainly what i've been doing / saying.
mircea_popescu: take a simple example. "dude, get out of the us." "no, i'm going to write my senator."
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] not without seven oceans' worth of parallelconstructiony-plausibledeniability << what was that apocryphal "nazi" dropped out of the plain with "papers" again?
ben_vulpes: the shop is considering entering a local "hackathon"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu basically, ignore the current institutions and their pretenses at anything, develop a new system exterior to it
ben_vulpes: notion being: show up; don't pitch; build hilaribad thing; present like seasoned shartup pros; clean up
mircea_popescu: also all that talk about unsheating your own conscience / not constructing your mental process as a reaction to bs / etc.
ben_vulpes: problem being nobody involved can figure if anyone involved with the charade will actually increase deal surface area
ben_vulpes: (in weird metaphor where shop has tentacles in gulf stream of deal flow)
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] Adlai that's the idea. looky here : gribble/wot was created a few years ago,. when btc was worth nothing and nobody bothered distinguishing between taaki and gavin. << oh we're distinguishing between taaki and gavin nao
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: show up at amateur hour, crush competition with "fart app", accrue reputation points to drive dealflow.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes sure. one's mentally retarded. the other's nefarious.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: we can't tell if the nefarious plan is retarded though.
mircea_popescu: and they both get killed. one tries to live off it tho. the other's just dumb.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: hey man this is america, land of the scam.
ben_vulpes: have you learned nothing from clements?!
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: well the common pattern is "show up! recruit t34m! build thinger and or slideshow depending on what your idiots can muster!"
punkman: ben_vulpes, what kind of company is running it?
ben_vulpes: notion is to skip recruitment phase and just go directly to winning "competition" for arcane local rep
pete_dushenski: the "exit" terminology threw me off a bit but i certainly subscribe to the approach
ben_vulpes: local calendars are trivially trollable, in the fishing sense.
punkman: well don't go to random hobo's hackathon what's the point
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28950 @ 0.00047072 = 13.6273 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: coming to ars this spring?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes friends just haaaad to get married that weekend
mircea_popescu: (women that spent their adolescent years being fucked with their backs on the same car = bonnet sisters)
ben_vulpes: <Adlai> [] maybe you should've called it cssipd
ben_vulpes: there've been a few bottles of wine, pete_dushenski
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform [] has never worn or so much as touched a hat made from a rarer animal than rabbit << i cap out at elk
ben_vulpes: christmas for me entails chinese food and skiing
pete_dushenski: i was inelegantly saying that i too have spent a good number of christmas and boxings days on the slopes
ben_vulpes: my parents tried to appease us with seven nights of tchotchkes
ben_vulpes: "FUCK THIS WHY AREN'T WE AT THE CABIN"
ben_vulpes: "no but channukah's not supposed to be a materialistic holiday, it's about murdering the roman--"
pete_dushenski: "not until you've murdered your romans and finished your greens, benny"
ben_vulpes: my mom was actually one of those disappointed radicals from the sixties
ben_vulpes: "first, say 'all cops are filth', and then i'll consider taking us up the hill in the morning."
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] "apple is not a technology, apple is a vision" << oh jesus 51% sent me a bill to review in apple's proprietary spreadsheet format today
ben_vulpes: i'm still on 10.9, which has an outdated version of Pages
ben_vulpes: which cannot open "modern" "Pages" files
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2929 @ 0.00046904 = 1.3738 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: time to get a personal computer for sanity and a work computer for insanity, neh?
ben_vulpes: i'm fighting iTunes' desire to back my phone up in triplicate (a 45GB project) to maintain a reasonably empty hdd
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i'm not buying a non-Apple mobile computer
ben_vulpes: anyways, blew my stack on any number of fronts and then had to soothe 51% and myriad bystanders down.
pete_dushenski: hey i'm not about to come over there and make you do anything you don't wanna do
pete_dushenski: but just remember that in neoreactionary land, you can always exit
ben_vulpes: what are you running, windows on ferrari?
ben_vulpes: hang on i have to find the "my eyes rolled so far back they got stuck" emoji on this osxboard
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] i give you even money she's contributing to open source projects, doing his/their substitutions. << "she"?
ben_vulpes: well pete_dushenski since it's just you and i...
ben_vulpes: i can't imagine you're much of a follower
ben_vulpes: i'll need more than a few days of practice
ben_vulpes: alternatively, come to portland this summer in your downtime
fluffypony: M$ really has become a different beast
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00046886 = 8.0175 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: fluffypony: "It will be so worth it,” enthuses Uhlenhuth. << downright lovecraftian, this
ben_vulpes just watched too much LFMGD, now must flop organs around hausbox
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49800 @ 0.00046849 = 23.3308 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59213 @ 0.00046579 = 27.5808 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64650 @ 0.00045876 = 29.6588 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25099 @ 0.00045472 = 11.413 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50400 @ 0.00044744 = 22.551 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00044512 = 3.65 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72375 @ 0.00044338 = 32.0896 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2736 @ 0.00044234 = 1.2102 BTC [-]
fluffypony: so basically when breaking the law, just claim that it's "art"
fluffypony: brb going to rob a jewellery store for a piece I'm showing at the end of the year
punkman: “The police were there specifically because of the ecstasy. For us, it is important that no one be able to get their hands on it.”
fluffypony: yeah I'm talking about the artist's reaction - "We believe that the confiscation is an unjustified intervention into freedom of art."
fluffypony: oh and Google finally killed off Glass (although I don't suspect they'll stop the research into wearables)
☟︎ fluffypony: pity, I was really looking forward to looking like an absolute tool in public all while filming everyone
punkman: older cars without wifi and assorted shitgnomery are gonna be valuable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.0004487 = 9.5573 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.0004487 = 17.2076 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00045567 = 18.1357 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00044758 = 16.4709 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81600 @ 0.00045535 = 37.1566 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00044758 = 13.5841 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10708 @ 0.00044234 = 4.7366 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28617 @ 0.00043979 = 12.5855 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24233 @ 0.00043183 = 10.4645 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.13 = 1.04 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50362 @ 0.00044674 = 22.4987 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58400 @ 0.00042984 = 25.1027 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 18-01-2015 11:38:55; fluffypony: oh and Google finally killed off Glass (although I don't suspect they'll stop the research into wearables)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35600 @ 0.00043643 = 15.5369 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.1295 = 1.295 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.1295 = 1.295 BTC [-]
Zarathul: hi everyone, BingoBoingo thanks for the voice
Zarathul: I'm developing a lightweight MMORPG with crypto economy. and I'm looking for some feedback and alpha testers
Zarathul: we're going to do a common pool of winnings, for Bitcoin tipping/cash-outs, similar to Sarutobi
Zarathul: and we're working on making the in-game assets become crypto-assets
Zarathul: hence, I thought this channel would be suitable to ask for feedback
Zarathul: anyone interested in taking a look? yes/no/maybe :)
assbot: Zarathul is not registered in WoT.
Zarathul: yes, we're familiar with what they're doing. I'm not sure we'll go too much in the sandbox direction
kakobrekla: anyway you should prolly check in with mircea & s.mg
kakobrekla: and while he isnt here, you can get registered in the wot or something
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25552 @ 0.00044414 = 11.3487 BTC [+] {2}
Zarathul: didn't get a chance to talk, looking fwd to it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14048 @ 0.00045292 = 6.3626 BTC [+]
Zarathul: in the next major update, the yellow coins will be Satoshis, and the hexes will be crypto assets
kakobrekla: i wonder what will you do if anything with bots?
Zarathul: yeah, unsure :) it is an issue
Zarathul: but not a problem we've had yet, we're pretty early
Zarathul: so, there must be some game design workaround
kakobrekla: myea the 1 wheel car design also doesnt have problems until on road.
Zarathul: I was wondering what the community thinks about crypto games with Bitcoin withdrawal and playing for crypto assets. and if they would play TakeOver
Zarathul: but it seems Sunday is not the most active time around this channel :)
Zarathul: ok, I guess I'll try again later
BingoBoingo: It might take a day or two for people interested asking questions to get to this part of the conversation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00044011 = 8.9782 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Adlai: Keep an eye out for anything qntrable at this thing.
xanthyos: Zarathul: looks like it has potential
xanthyos: correlate in-game gold for satoshis
xanthyos: i'd like to play monopoly with #b-a members if we could figure out a place to do the dice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00045292 = 5.6615 BTC [+]
xanthyos: TomServo: care to play monopoly? we can use our own boards and everyone gets to be the car
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70150 @ 0.00043691 = 30.6492 BTC [-]
Adlai: BingoBoingo: garza's talk got cancelled, so i'm spending most of my time "networking"
kakobrekla: garza's talk got cancelled < scammer decided not to scam? what a scammer.
xanthyos: once your reptutation is that of a scammer the only way to continue scamming is not to scam and in doing so defy expectations; that being the scam.
Adlai: he's still here, paybase/hashnest logo everywhere, giving out free polo shirts at their booth, kickoff party had a giant paybase logo on the side of the hotel
Adlai: actually i didn't see him at the conference itself yesterday, but his goons from the kickoff party were hanging around, so i'm guessing he was there too
Adlai: so, while i'd love to write some english words, my time over the past two days has been spent speaking words and writing code, and today will likely be no different
assbot: Logged on 18-01-2015 08:29:31; ben_vulpes: Adlai: coming to ars this spring?
Adlai likes the idea of a conference where pitching is forbidden by default
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34218 @ 0.00045422 = 15.5425 BTC [+] {2}
TomServo: xanthyos: Perhaps another time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65752 @ 0.00043806 = 28.8033 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14348 @ 0.00045013 = 6.4585 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51150 @ 0.00043259 = 22.127 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44756 @ 0.0004348 = 19.4599 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16896 @ 0.0004348 = 7.3464 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;later tell mircea_popescu deposits pls
jurov: i should prolly make a bot
jurov: for reminding mircea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26750 @ 0.00045765 = 12.2421 BTC [+]
gribble: Error: "2d6" is not a valid command.
mod6: we should be playin craps
mod6: any idea why one would want to remove Orphans from the map randomly instead of consecutively?
mod6: what's the benifit here?
jurov: tried to blame it?
mod6: naw, just (stupidly) trying to understand danebramige
mod6: anyway, im looking at this stuff way up in 0.9.0 because im still trying to get a read on why when you sync the blockchain from genesis to current the R.I. chews through all of its memory until it causes a SIGKILL from out of memory.
mod6: im looking into these mapOrphanBlocks data structures as they basically go unchecked for size in 0.5.3.
jurov: they decided to keep only 750 orphans and thus had to come out with algo to prune them
mod6: so we /might/ need to add something similar... but im not positive that this is actually the issue yet.
jurov: if they didn't chase the performance and went with real database, one'd just create another table for orphans
mod6: i added some debug code to main.cpp and am now syncing the chain, seeing how many orphans are in the map, every time it finds an orphanblock in ProcessBlock
mod6: XXX ProcessBlock: mapOrphanBlocks.size(): 4206
jurov: how long is one entry?
mod6: it goes up and down a bit, but has been hovering in around 4k orphans.. im at about 185xxx blocks
mod6: haven't added anything for that yet.
mod6: we do know that it must be < 1Mb
jurov: regardless of if it is the case, is it feasible ddos scenario to generate lots of orphans for old blocks?
mod6: so there was a check in 0.5.3 that requires checkpoints for this, which i removed in the rm_checkpoints patch
mod6: which is that block
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: "not until you've murdered your romans and finished your greens, benny" << hahahaha
mod6: and in forward versions, there are a variety of other checks for orphan spam other than that.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: what are you running, windows on ferrari? << bwahahaha these two. should be cuffed together, endrunkened to 115% and dropped on a sound stage.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00045488 = 14.1695 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: microsoft_moves_major_projects_to_github/ << heh. github as-is is actually precisely fit for microsoft.
mircea_popescu: ms has not become a different beast. what used to be foss has decayed to the level one can't distinguish it from microsoft anymore.
mircea_popescu: “On the morning of January 12, the day after the three-month exhibition was closed, the public prosecutor's office of St. Gallen seized and sealed our work. It seems, the purpose of the confiscation is to impede an endangerment of third parties through the drugs exhibited by destroying them. This is what we know at present. We believe that the confiscation is an unjustified intervention into freedom of art.”
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: so basically when breaking the law, just claim that it's "art" << you will notice that they merely bought random items. this illustrates the solid point that the notion that buying items can be made illegal implies buying itself was made illegal, through this randomness device.
sgornick: mircea_popescu, Yes, I can successfully !up in a PM to assbot to get voice.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony there's a lot of challenges to the quaint notions of what the state has the authority to do to be brought through deploying the much more widely avaialble powers of math. situation somewhat similar to, while currently a government may claim for itself the right to legislate as to the albedo of undiscovered stars, once they're discovered that's gone.
mircea_popescu: sgornick tbh, it's kind of how it goes, that various social media heads put up on whatever social media thing bits and pieces of what they've read in year-old logs here.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: that's an entirely separate issue to "I choose to live in your house and abide by your rules...except when it doesn't suit and I can just claim 'art' instead"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony it is the government that lives in their house, not vice-versa.
fluffypony: artists don't have particularly big guns ;)
mircea_popescu: and if you recall, i'm actually against "free drugs". but that doesn't change they don't have much of a logical standpoint.
mircea_popescu: to use the "on terrorism" apparatus, obviously a state can try to support itself on both process of law and terrorism. some, like stalin's , actually succeeded. it's dubious one can succeed without a stalin to o it tho. i dun see bureaucrats were ever born able to pull it off.
mircea_popescu: *: Adlai actually got to use it once, since it's useless for selfies, which the glasshole required << all you need's a mirror neh ?
mircea_popescu: Zarathul: I'm developing a lightweight MMORPG with crypto economy. and I'm looking for some feedback and alpha testers << ever heard of s.mg ? also, iirc DreadKnight is doing something similar.
mircea_popescu: you could prolly also say hi in #eulora (s.mg's mmorp in development irc room)
Adlai: all you need's a mirror neh ? << but then your selfie immortalizes you a glasshole
mircea_popescu: shoot a bullet hole through mirror, take your pic, title the result "glasshole through looking glass with hole"
Adlai: thx for fucking up !b 2
mircea_popescu: i guess once bitcoin fails i'll run a slavegirl harem / art collective.
pete_dushenski: adlai pretty sure there's ways to grab text and submit for bashage ;)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how social works work. so : if anyone can get one, it's ok. if it becomes apparent not everyone will have one, it's not.
Adlai: if it can't be done thru assbot i don't wanna hear about it
mircea_popescu: if the fashion looks like it doesn't have the steam, backlash prevails.
pete_dushenski: it's not clear to me why everyone couldn't have a glasshole
mircea_popescu: which is why the notion that social discussion is argument driven is just so much rubbish. which is why conde nast wants reddit and the new york times moved to publishing pics and tweets.
Adlai always thought "glasshole" was less about carrying a camera everywhere, more about constantly having your screen open
mircea_popescu: right, but the headcount that'll NEVER wear them is large enough
pete_dushenski: but the knock-off market, like that for lv purses, should fill that demand
mircea_popescu: consider how it works. take an island of 100 people, of which 5 boys and 6 girls under 30, 10 boys and 11 girls under 40. now, one day the fashion is for girls to wear clothes with a hole over left nipple, so it's always exposed.
mircea_popescu: 15 boys like this. if 9 girls hate it, it'll become a "civil rights" issue, but happen anyway.
mircea_popescu: note obviously that all this applies to flat, ie, non hierarchical situations, like what to wear.
mircea_popescu: in hierarchical situations, once ford decides to order his lieutenant to mine a hill because he sees rust on it,
mircea_popescu: all it takes there is one. one jobs for everyone from samsung to chinaxxx to make ipads
mircea_popescu: which is why teenaged girls with little sex experience but nice tits and barbiedoll face tend to go into "fashion design", whereas fat dudes with an acne problem tend to flock to busienss school.
mircea_popescu: actually i guess it's mostly "pr" now. same deal, "you need css for your website, you need tanga slips for your barbie"
mircea_popescu: too many people dislike them, so they'd never make it.
mircea_popescu: there's this ancient observation that bright young lads do not "choose their field of research", they merely go with the first direction where they happen to have some success.
pete_dushenski: there's something to be said for having society show you the door early on
pete_dushenski: it's much harder to carve your own niche in this regard as well
mircea_popescu: kinda why it's the job of parents to send the popular girl to live naked with the pigs for a summer , and respectively force the acne boy to dance naked in gay bars the same summer.
pete_dushenski: or it makes them, in which case you now have your retirement plan sorted
mircea_popescu: xanthyos: TomServo: care to play monopoly? we can use our own boards and everyone gets to be the car << i always play the hat!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54700 @ 0.00045942 = 25.1303 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski of course, they might not like you anymore.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu this'd only be a problem if you thought that parents = friends
pete_dushenski: and still, there's no guarantee that they'll like you if you coddle them either
mircea_popescu: Adlai: he's still here, paybase/hashnest logo everywhere, giving out free polo shirts at their booth, kickoff party had a giant paybase logo on the side of the hotel << because "advertisin fixes everything" "we're creating awareness".
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : because somethingawful forums keeps driving people to trilema, i started a banner campaign there.
Adlai: there's a booth at this conference, advertising for another conference. they're giving out free stress balls, those bouncy nerf foam tennisballsized things you can squeeze... over the course of the day, corners get filled up with these garbages
Adlai: they win the best advertising award
mircea_popescu: it produced ~400 clicks in 24 hours. which i imagine it's about 100% of everyone that set eyes on it.
Adlai: what is with everybody and pictures
kakobrekla: i just wanna have something to show when ppl come asking where gaw money went
mircea_popescu: adlai meets girl at party. she drags him to upstairs bedroom. they go at it. after a while, she's "adlai, this fucking sucks!" and he retorts calmly
pete_dushenski: peeople expect the "you are rich, just click here to claim your winnings" shtick, but "you are poor" is just genius
Adlai: "the fact that it attracts so many scammers is a complement to bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: the balls are a complement to your cock ; the wow's you hear are compliments to your cock.
Adlai: this is from jeffrey tucker, the only speaker who hasn't used a slideshow
Adlai: he's just bouncing around on stage waxing euphoric about the rocketship
mircea_popescu: i can see the point anyway. the wasps are a compliment to the grapes and the flies to the dead donkey.
Adlai: if nobody's trying to steal it, it's probably not worth stealing
mircea_popescu: it all depends whether you're waspivorous or shitflyvorous
Adlai: there's a real estate booth here, and a yacht booth. they have nothingc to do with bitcoin except accepting it as payment.
Adlai: doubtful, seen a price ticker lately?
Adlai: they're probably more likely to make a sale if they put up a sign saying they don't take bitcoin
mircea_popescu: mod6: so we /might/ need to add something similar... but im not positive that this is actually the issue yet. << i don't see how concurrent chains would cause memory outages.
mircea_popescu: jurov: regardless of if it is the case, is it feasible ddos scenario to generate lots of orphans for old blocks? << yes.
Adlai: there shouldn't be any problem incorporating headers-first mitigation of that ddos vector
Adlai: "If you think bitcoin people are passionate about bitcoin, you should see how passionate cannabis people are about cannabis"
mircea_popescu: alternatively, you should see how passionate self-mutilating idiots are about "transgender"
mircea_popescu: politicians about lying, journalists about being stupid, on it goes.
Adlai knows a few, not sure how passionate they are about the transition itself
Adlai: it's a rather shitty process
Adlai: lol this guy's roadmap for bitcoin adoption: cannabis, gun dealers, and then "pilates instructors, masseuses, and anybody else who doesn't want to pay a single dollar to the IRS"
mircea_popescu: point being, whoever finds something fundamental and builds his mental representation of life on top of it is going to act like someone who's built his mental representation of life on top of it.
mircea_popescu: Adlai generally a good indication that all he does is smoke pot, and watch dudes firing guns and chicks doing yoga in yoga pants on youtube.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6: so we /might/ need to add something similar... but im not positive that this is actually the issue yet. << i don't see how concurrent chains would cause memory outages. << well, there is a container that holds these orphan blocks unchecked in v0.5.3. if this actually is related to the R.I. chewing through all its ram, perhaps a limit should be introduced.
mircea_popescu: jurov: i should prolly make a bot << it's been up to date ?
Adlai: it's rather refreshing to hear this guy say that most of teh previous talks (xapo et al) are a total waste of time and detrimental to bitcoin
mod6: anyway, i'm gonna keep debugging this thing. will give updates.
mircea_popescu: mod6 but a) a block can no longer be an orphan once the block at the height it disputes has its coinbases spendable ; b) the sum total of orphans to date isn't, if memory serves, 8gb.
Adlai: you guys would like this talk, he just spent ~3 minutes talking about how americans can't read anymore
mod6: ahh ok, well, in relation to "b", i've seen this SIGKILL/OOM problem on a local vm with 1Gb of ram, and an AWS VM with 2Gb of ram.
mircea_popescu: mod6 actually this would be a good datapoint to compute. find out the sum total of orphans to date.
Adlai: "sure, there are people who still buy LPs, audiophiles dedicated to authentic sounds... but the US dollar is more like an 8-track tape"
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 actually this would be a good datapoint to compute. find out the sum total of orphans to date. << noted. will see what I can come up with.
kakobrekla: btw if someone is curious why empty blocks are still mined, its because of network propagation and orphans.
kakobrekla: the math tells them better to drop tx than to take additional risk or an orphan
mircea_popescu: that can't be a problem because internet doubles every year
kakobrekla: for example that 100k usd fury rack was connected to the internet via 3 mobile phone connections back in the day.
mircea_popescu: "Having said that, the main reason I've never heard of him is probably that I mostly ignore Bitcoin current affairs, because its design flaws will eventually kill it. The key ideas behind the technology are epoch-makingly brilliant, but the trouble with any distributed P2P system - the thing that kills most of them in the end - is that for any given design flaw, there are people who benefit from it, and those people wi
mircea_popescu: ll fork the network to keep it. Eventually, the network will cease to have utility because it will be too small and then it will die. The three specific things that will ultimately kill Bitcoin are the limit on the number of coins, the lack of any kind of value anchor, and the absence of compulsory transaction fees. "
mircea_popescu: dude where would we be without bitcoin experts that built their expertise on ignorance!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25322 @ 0.00046409 = 11.7517 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: bless his soul. "bitcoin is bad because no government to inflate it, no government to posture about it, no government to tax it".
TheNewDeal: So I aithed through gribble and then assbot is sending me some separate link when I try for !Up. Is it just like the gribble auth process?
mircea_popescu: gribble auth no longer used/required for assbot voice.
jurov: mircea_popescu: it's okay i forgot it's another account. derp :(
mircea_popescu: mebbe i make an android sexbot to come to your place and disturb your thoughts
jurov: imo assbot haunts me sufficiently
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021389 B (Total: 467.74 B). Delta: -1.46 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.0002 BTC [-]
gribble: Nick 'TheNewDeal', with hostmask 'TheNewDeal!~TheNewDea@unaffiliated/thenewdeal', is not identified.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] ben_vulpes so why not bring mom here ? << well now she's full-bore communist. notrly good company for the asshats.
ben_vulpes: think i'll reserve the right to fuck with my mom's head for myself
hanbot: isn't that incestuous?
hanbot: it should be a stranger.
ben_vulpes: winding up one's own mother's an acquired taste.
gribble: Current Blocks: 339544 | Current Difficulty: 4.397166205608958E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 340703 | Next Difficulty In: 1159 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 13 hours, 48 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 42674274810.8 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.95051
ben_vulpes: plus there's a bit of "that's my little brother, only i get to bully him around"
hanbot: she's younger than you?!
TheNewDeal: or just the regular 1/sec/sec traveling pace
mircea_popescu: "and suddenly, totally out of everyone's left field, chtulu"
hanbot: well now i know what my name'll be if i ever wwf
ben_vulpes: i think wrestling is still called wrestling.
mircea_popescu: they basically rebrand it each decade, so 10yos can all have their own.
ben_vulpes: words don't just *lose* their meaning mircea_popescu sheesh
TheNewDeal: just finished Case of Dextar Ward, anyone read that?
mircea_popescu: WWE, was previously known as the "World Wrestling Federation" or "WWF" from 1979 to 2002
TheNewDeal: I think they combined at some point, and then split up again
ben_vulpes: iirc they got sued by the world wildlife foundation
hanbot: lol acronyms are ip nao too?!
TheNewDeal: Actually it looks like they're still contained under one parent company. IPO'd under "WWE" on the nyse
mircea_popescu: Bitcoin 0.8.5 or later is required << apparently p2pool is asshats.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re previous imgur : wtf is that kindergarten shit.
mircea_popescu: nobody there to stand up and tell them where to stick that shit /
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00045488 = 14.3287 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] if the fashion looks like it doesn't have the steam, backlash prevails. << i wonder if Apple has the steel to pull off their watch play.
gribble: Bitstamp | A market order to buy 10000 bitcoins right now would take 2613072.8741 USD and would take the last price up to 400.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 261.3073 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0116 seconds
TheNewDeal: someone just gave me one of those pens with the electromagnetic tip that works with touchscreens, great for reducing fat-fingers
TheNewDeal: not returning results on google. what is it?
ben_vulpes: requires drawing on the retina to work properly imho.
mircea_popescu: i kinda have high hopes once the foldable screens come into their own
ben_vulpes: i thought i was reasonably well acquainted with that thread
ben_vulpes: don't the eyeglass lenses have a focus at infinity problem?
ben_vulpes: as in needing to switch between focusing on something in front of one and focusing on the screen?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34317 @ 0.00046641 = 16.0058 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: anyway, the difference might simply be explained by price. so, if a car costs 20-30k and a supercar 200 to 300k, whereas a jet fighter 20 to 30 mn,
mircea_popescu: it stands to reason tech available to one is not available to the other.
jurov: kakobrekla: assbot definitely stopped reporting divs?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "could cost a penny". well... how'd they make money then ?
davout: mircea_popescu: see you published, nice! reading nao
mircea_popescu: cause idiot females too busy with "transgender friends" and idiot males too busy reading moldbug.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00045449 = 18.0887 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: but same moidel. useful item with market that doesn't exist for public.
mircea_popescu: think about it the other way. a display is merely a display. it works on information. if the information is all in a box, then you're probably not a very good partizan. more of a hacker. "playing the harmonica" so to speak.
mircea_popescu: if the informtion comes on a wire, the eye piece is the least vulnerable place.
assbot: Logged on 22-12-2013 16:56:53; asciilifeform: 'what people “want” is a function of what they learn is available. e.g., do Americans want three-ring binders, and Europeans four-ring binders? or do they want binders and take whatever number of holes they come with? or do they want something that can help them organize their papers and take whatever is available? or do they really want a less cluttered office and ease of storage and retrieval of the
mircea_popescu: partizan infantry is not that much about targeting, or maps.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it'd help the invader more than the partizans.
mircea_popescu: you might, at home, in armchair. and that you can presently do.
mircea_popescu: most targetting needs both eyes. to propose that poking a man in one is doing his targetting a service...
mircea_popescu: first thging you teach idiot kids. "don't close your eye. don't squint"
mircea_popescu: you know ? just like the jet is not a self contained machine.
mircea_popescu: well... then its existence is not where it'd be attacked.
mircea_popescu: thermovisor is only useful at night, and only worn at night
mircea_popescu: (thing does a stereo *ping* in the direction in question)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00045281 = 10.4146 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: undata davout so was one of you two picking up deedbot ?
undata: I'm hacking on it today
davout: i started toying with it a bit, apparently undata too
davout: six implementations later
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as there's really only going to be one, this may be counterproductive. you want it resolved ?
undata: sure, if there's a prefered party that's fine with me
undata: I'm just taking the spec as is, implementing around the go bot afore-linked
davout: i've poured 2~3 hours in it so far, so either way is fine with me
mircea_popescu: ok well, inasmuch undata is new and this isn't really very hard, let him do it then, gain some cred.
☟︎ undata: thanks, figured I'd make myself useful for once
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47200 @ 0.00045553 = 21.501 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40913 @ 0.00044943 = 18.3875 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: hey whose idea was it to prevent the network from relaying transactions outside of the context of blocks and was it really that good of an idea?
davout: undata: i wouldn't mind sharing the work i did so far, but you don't seem so keen on ruby
undata: davout: appreciate it; however nah I'm not
ben_vulpes: getdata is used in response to inv, to retrieve the content of a specific object, and is usually sent after receiving an inv packet, after filtering known elements. It can be used to retrieve transactions, but only if they are in the memory pool or relay set - arbitrary access to transactions in the chain is not allowed to avoid having clients start to depend on nodes having full transaction indexes (which modern nodes do not).
davout: what are you building it in, out of curiosity?
undata: davout: I'd take a peak if you like
undata: davout: probably go, the bot I'm working with is in go
davout: i had all the easter eggs already done :D
undata: the bot comes with example services in python, but I'm prety "meh" on gevent as well
undata: man my spelling has been deplorable today
ben_vulpes: i do not want to drop 3 hours on fiddling my bouncer again.
davout: setting up znc was a painful experience
ben_vulpes: the requirement to configure it through the running instance is batshit
davout: "ohai, i'm a config file, pls to not edit"
davout: kakobrekla: dat thug life
Adlai wonders when system d will begin using systemd
davout: the way i see this whole conundrum evolve is that eventually systemd will be renamed 'ubuntu'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1550 @ 0.00089992 = 1.3949 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00044409 = 9.3259 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32850 @ 0.0004425 = 14.5361 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00044119 = 1.3677 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16508 @ 0.00044611 = 7.3644 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00044443 = 12.4663 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43058 @ 0.00044328 = 19.0868 BTC [-] {2}