⏐︎ 8912
asciilifeform: !up RagnarDanneskjol
asciilifeform wrestles with dilemma of whether he should open up his 90 or so percent implementation of mircea_popescu's RFP
asciilifeform will then end up stuck with doing actual werk
asciilifeform fesses up that he worked on it, on and off, for some months, so as to have a 'killerapp' application for cardano when the latter is unwrapped
RagnarDanneskjol: was just telling ASCII that I understand nano is on vacay for a few days, also altgribble is avail for bcauth but not gpg ☟︎
asciilifeform: altgribble ?
kakobrekla: "sir, we are out of potato, but we can offer some fresh shit. its on the house."
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/201YNCP.txt )
asciilifeform: !b 2 ✂︎
RagnarDanneskjol: Yea in -OTC... Its run by someone else using cached
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.0006284 = 9.2689 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20346 @ 0.00062752 = 12.7675 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: ;;bc,stts
mod6: 404 Gribble Not Found
mod6: forgot heh
BingoBoingo: Does anyone know if https://blockchain.info/address/1JoktQJhCzuCQkt3GnQ8Xddcq4mUgNyXEa is the Bitstamp cold address?
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1JoktQJhCzuCQkt3GnQ8Xddcq4mUgNyXEa ... ( http://bit.ly/1AxTWl5 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18500 @ 0.00062534 = 11.5688 BTC [-] {2}
xanthyos: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6oC15SIcAAsysI.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wfyw79 )
kakobrekla: !up Chiyo
BingoBoingo: !up svetlana
kakobrekla: !up wc-
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00078499 = 1.9625 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/01/bitstamp-wallet-now-officially-hacked/
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: You are quoted again for who knows how many words this time.
kakobrekla: aha :)
kakobrekla: qntra down ?
BingoBoingo: Looks like it.
kakobrekla: i suspekt ddos is back on chan as well
ben_vulpes: all-channel attack, huh?
BingoBoingo: Well, at least I published the thing so it will be visible eventually.
kakobrekla: ddos on chan confirmed :)
BingoBoingo: Fuck it IRC is too advanced to be safe. We need to do baudot over ULF. 10 MW minimum to get voice.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo will enjoy my comment on trilema then (when that site is back...)
mircea_popescu: eh what, again ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your site appears to be down
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Oh just DDoS is back on everything it seems
mircea_popescu: mkay, looking into.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44700 @ 0.00062635 = 27.9978 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "Your store/business has been published on our bitgazetteer.com website." heh.
mircea_popescu: "i know, whatsapp got 200 bn for essentially spamming, why wouldn't we!"
kakobrekla: ok
kakobrekla: fasten your seatbelts
kakobrekla: [02:23:50] <svetlana> cloaking is NOT the solution to the problem.
kakobrekla: [02:24:05] <kakobrekla> how is it not?
kakobrekla: [02:24:11] <kakobrekla> if everyone is cloaked noone can be ddosed
kakobrekla: [02:25:27] <kakobrekla> freenode is broken by default as it will show your ip plainly
kakobrekla: [02:25:49] <svetlana> it is rather trivial to look through cloaks (chanserv can, and anyone can query chanserv with various cidrs and ask whether people match).
kakobrekla: !up svetlana
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: let's start with something simple. who is svetlana.
svetlana: Hi.
mircea_popescu: ello
svetlana: I might suggest not using cloaks as the solution here. Using cidr entries in access list, and /cs why, it's quite trivial to look through them. We don't want to "teach" whoever is ddosing here that -- he'd keep doing his thing.
asciilifeform: what is the suggested solution (other than '+i' which was discussed at one point, bitter pill)
svetlana: Instead, get affected people to check their router logs and get more details about the attack.
asciilifeform: svetlana: i got a massive packet dump, and so has kakobrekla ☟︎
asciilifeform: svetlana: standard ntp and ssdp 'amplification' attack
mircea_popescu: and "more details" will do what ?
svetlana: asciilifeform: It is not rather dumbly from a single IP, is it?
asciilifeform: svetlana: not familiar with term 'amplification attack' ?
svetlana: No.
BingoBoingo: svetlana: It is some asshole herding wayward machines
BingoBoingo: routers, servers, the occasional 10 kilo wordpress sites
asciilifeform: svetlana: perhaps you know it under another name. attacker sends spoofed packets to a series of machines, usually misconfigured routers and embedded systems of other kinds
asciilifeform: these reply with N bytes for each spoofed byte sent, hence term 'amplification'
asciilifeform: but they reply to the spoofed address (victim's) rather than attacker's.
svetlana: If the details that you have are not sufficient (which is somewhat often the case), we have to apply discretion and judgment to figure out who it is (before +i, it might make sense to use +r and see if it makes things stop).
mircea_popescu: svetlana so far, we still don't know who you are.
asciilifeform: aha, suggestion is that we occupy ourselves with a permanent game of whack-a-mole.
svetlana: I am from another channel where wc- was complaining about the issue. Couldn't suggest anything but not perceiving cloak as the solution, to him.
mircea_popescu: this is all nice and good, however...
mircea_popescu: the parcimonious approach is to regard you as grossly unqualified to comment on that topic.
mircea_popescu: so far you're not doing much to change that.
BingoBoingo suggests a "Russian Woodpecker" in every back yard...
asciilifeform feels mind utterly boggled at this offer of 'help' of the 'have you tried plugging it in' variety.
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/275CDS1.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 4 ✂︎
asciilifeform: 'hello fellow dog, you must also be a dog for every living thing is a dog; what kind of dog are you'
decimation: I'm a horse
mircea_popescu: a hoarse dog.
decimation: asciilifeform: more evidence that your wot-router idea is needed, at any rate.
BingoBoingo: I'm mange
asciilifeform: decimation: see also mircea_popescu's article.
mircea_popescu: well, in half an hour or whatever
mircea_popescu: anyways, cool to be back to normal.
decimation: mircea_popescu: apparently mr. ddos took your 'unreliable' remarks personally
mircea_popescu: <ascii_modem> that or he read the log and picked the parts he liked << i dunno where i stole it from tbh.
decimation: he wants to provide us with his own special brand of discipline free of charge
asciilifeform: it's a thing that's been crying to have itself done for a good twenty years.
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> Microsoft shut down their captcha service, which was causing that problem on the eulorum wiki. << YOUR PAIN IS YOUR OWN PUNISHMENT
mircea_popescu: heretick!
mircea_popescu: decimation it's still not very reliable, who gets 1-5th of january off.
mircea_popescu: not to mention the poor showling last year.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is convenient because i didn't really feel like writing reports tonight, and asciilifeform still's not sent me his mail, so
mircea_popescu: tomorro is another day!
asciilifeform just got back to his cockpit actually, a few hrs ago
mircea_popescu: mike_c: and it is not unusual for it to catch humans << on the plus side, i get about 10-20 pieces of spam a day, which are pretty much all handcranked. the attepts are well in the 1000s/hr. on the - side, occasionally people complain about having to redo a comment / having lost a comment in the depths.
mircea_popescu: how often has it happened ot you ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: anyone learn the fate of nanotube yet ? <<< no. i was waiting for some kind of logs to surface, but seems nothing.
asciilifeform: so far just this tidbit, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-01-2015#966268 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 06-01-2015 00:06:29; RagnarDanneskjol: was just telling ASCII that I understand nano is on vacay for a few days, also altgribble is avail for bcauth but not gpg
asciilifeform: where he got this notion - he did not say.
mircea_popescu shrugs.
mircea_popescu: " that when wot is taken seriously by intelligent and resourceful enemies, it will be rather late." << so how late is it /
asciilifeform: !up RagnarDanneskjol
BingoBoingo: Well, if captured I am ready to be absolutely worthless.
asciilifeform: 'не стреляйте, я знаю секреты' << from unofficial, unwritten nato phrasebook.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, trilema back, which comment or what ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i sent in a comment re: 'ircd' article a few hrs ago.
mircea_popescu: a ok. http://trilema.com/2015/open-a-better-ircd-rfc/#comment-111175
assbot: [OPEN] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DcuMuK )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32700 @ 0.00063266 = 20.688 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: "The enemy can diddle IP any way he likes," << sure, but that's why salt is there.
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate the purity of your vision, but i'd rather have this work on current hardware. what else is there ?
asciilifeform: enemy cannot hijack session by spoofing packets, but can get really annoying
mircea_popescu: how ?
asciilifeform: dos
mircea_popescu: gimme like a scenario.
mircea_popescu: nope. port just ignores him.
asciilifeform: expends cpu cycles on doing so
asciilifeform: at any rate, no magical hardware needed!
mircea_popescu: providing he finds your ip (which i doubt), you can just switch it too.
mircea_popescu: for that matter i envisage most people using this on multiple ips
asciilifeform: the hello-in-udp-mtu lives happily on existing linux/commonplace archs
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't be against this being implemented in udp in any case.
asciilifeform: no need to keep track of ips, and to marry the notion of 'origin address'
mircea_popescu: just, needs an extra engineer.
asciilifeform: the other nice thing re: udp is that a connectionless/stateless protocol frustrates traffic analysis very well.
asciilifeform: in my 'error coding' scheme, the station transmits at all times.
asciilifeform: anyone who wants to receive the current pubmessage snapshot can start listening at any point, and will eventually end up with it
mircea_popescu: somebody up svetlana kthx
asciilifeform: after approximately 1.03N bytes for a payload originally length N
asciilifeform: !up svetlana
asciilifeform: why mircea_popescu had to ruin my surprise gift to the fine folks of #b-a. i was gonna roll that thing out with cardano.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/23BVBB2.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 1 ✂︎
asciilifeform: now one of you lot will end up having to write it!
mircea_popescu: well cuz i didnt know, cuz someone didn't tell me
asciilifeform: from scratch.
mircea_popescu: cuz no mail apparently.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu does not like surprise
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: at any rate, i did bring it up in here on a few occasions. but did append the gotcha, 'not ready for battlefield because little time' - which is presently true
asciilifeform currently failing to load mircea_popescu's site, but believes that somewhere it works
mircea_popescu: ;;isup beh
mircea_popescu: well, it works on MY SYSTEM
asciilifeform: i still want that fpga that evolves to live in one particular floor tile of your cellar.
kakobrekla: it doesnt work.
asciilifeform: when the moon is just waning.
kakobrekla: svetlana here is butthurt and types in wrong (mine) window http://dpaste.com/131FHBZ.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1tEs8Fx )
kakobrekla: please svetlana if you have anything to say, here instead.
svetlana: I didn't think that discussing non-bitcoin stuff here is very welcome, but if you want me to stop talking with you in /msg I'm fine with that :)
kakobrekla: its very welcome as long as its not nonsense.
BingoBoingo: svetlana: You'd e surprised how infrequent specific BTC talk is here
svetlana: isn't vpn distributed? I'm rather surprised at that reaction
svetlana: I don't expect it to be very easy to attack ...
thestringpuller: cazalla: you around?
cazalla: mebe, no time for pokemon atm though
BingoBoingo: svetlana: Specific VPN's are centralized
cazalla: bit bored of it atm tbh, might take a little break from it and come back to it in a few weeks
svetlana: I'll get someone to write a good guide on the bitcoin wiki (I'm not good at this subject and I found someone who is better)
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla asciilifeform slow, but i see it. anyway, eventually derp will run out of juice in an hour or whatever xmas money affords and that's that.
kakobrekla: you think it lizards ?
kakobrekla: svetlana vpn is not much better than a bnc and tor wont fly here.
kakobrekla: whats next, sending people to ircloud ?
BingoBoingo still waits for avians to depose lizards
mircea_popescu: all this emotion talk, surprises, expectations, feelings and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: is it women in tech day or something ?
svetlana: irccloud is pretty central; I'll disappear for a bit, thanks for bearing with me
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, it is this years's Derp spores beginning to emerge from the damp log.
BingoBoingo hopes these sutures heal without much of a scar.
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/01/bitstamp-wallet-now-officially-hacked/
assbot: BitStamp Wallet Now Officially "Hacked" | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1tEtgJ6 )
thestringpuller: elon musk is doing an AMA http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2rgsan/i_am_elon_musk_ceocto_of_a_rocket_company_ama/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10624 @ 0.00063471 = 6.7432 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: o wow so it was "hacked" eh ?
mircea_popescu: not fractional reserve or anything.
BingoBoingo: Yeah, they claim to be able to over all, but they admit to 18k + "gone"
mircea_popescu: and they can cover 5mn+. through the process of what ?
BingoBoingo: On Coindesk of course. Never on their official site
mircea_popescu: they're not worth 5mn.
mike_c: <@mircea_popescu> how often has it happened ot you ? << I like your system. But diana was proposing it as bulletproof or panacea for all ills.
mike_c: of which it is neither
mircea_popescu: mike_c was more curious trying to keep track of that eternal "nobody complains so no problems" thing
mircea_popescu: afaik it works fine, but then again how do i know.
mike_c: that is a much bigger problem on the wiki. For you, you will get x comments and know there are 10x problems
mircea_popescu: "A total of 18,867.62695929 BTC were moved from BitStamp's hot wallet"
mircea_popescu: maybe i'm confused.
mike_c: I will get 0 comments and have no idea how bad the problem is.
mircea_popescu: but wtf is 18k doing in a hot wallet.
mircea_popescu: mike_c that's a point.
mike_c: s/comments/complaints/
kakobrekla: the wallet is cold only if its empty, doh.
mircea_popescu: "BitStamp surpassed Mt Gox is trading volume in 2013, largely on the strength of its not being Mt Gox."
mircea_popescu: well... fixed that.
thestringpuller: is qntra down for anyone else?
mircea_popescu: kako sounds so angry in interviews. you gotta relax for teh press man!
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller for a selected few.
thestringpuller: ah. dat ddos
kakobrekla: that is taken from forums from years ago?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla oh i thought it was new. mah bad.
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Yeah, last June
kakobrekla: forums really pissed me off.
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: If you want to write a "Bitstamp always sucked piece" Qntra could run it.
kakobrekla: now that im banned im just depressed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43200 @ 0.00064132 = 27.705 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: You know desoxyn is a hell of an anti-depressant
mircea_popescu: "the smaller sum of 18,000 BTC missing presents a still more onerous obstacle than Mt Gox faced in absolute terms as that many Bitcoin are largely unavailable to most people at any price denominated in national currency."
mircea_popescu: definitely to people without a wot.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo stop getting my casino cookie guy hooked on sugars.
kakobrekla: actually not reading chan to be reminded how all sucks helps as well.
BingoBoingo: Even with. With WoT you'd still likely need a more tangible item to trade for that many than $$$$... Prolly Plutonium would do.
mircea_popescu: poor kako. everyone sucks, and then he gets depressed and teh woman offers to suck him...
BingoBoingo: Space ship might barely do.
thestringpuller: Plutonium gives you ball cancer.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Apparently you aren't supposed to use the powder for that.
asciilifeform: lol, emotions!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-10-2014#864590 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-10-2014 17:47:47; *: asciilifeform has only a simple four-bit feelings register (sloth, avarice, lust, wrath)
BingoBoingo: So this internet of things... What the fuck is not intuitive enough about how a stove works already.
thestringpuller: Dude i know
thestringpuller: the CEO of the company I'm at keeps using that word all the time
thestringpuller: "We are ready for the internet of things"
thestringpuller: "The internet of things this, and that"
thestringpuller: i hate it more than "The cloud"
asciilifeform: not everyone can afford golden toilet, but anyone can have a throne with ipv6.
asciilifeform: or something like that.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: bona fide throne has homo sapien to catch turds with mouth
BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/supreme-court-justice-second-guesses-decisive-vote-in-gaming-free-speech-case/ <<lol
assbot: Supreme Court justice second-guesses decisive vote in gaming free speech case | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1tEwMU4 )
decimation: svetlana: why doesn't someone fix the 'problem' with cloaks by re-writing ircd into something sane?
decimation: http://www.itworld.com/article/2864675/new-lie-detector-relies-on-fullbody-suit-for-better-accuracy.html << lol these guys want to sell gimp suits for hazing usg employees
assbot: New lie detector relies on full-body suit for better accuracy | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1tExxwi )
asciilifeform: decimation: await the next version, resembling 'iron maiden' ?
cazalla: thestringpuller, didja know even pokemon has cloud storage for pokemans with the pokemon bank
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, it has 99% accuracy!!!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00065173 = 36.8879 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: cazalla: ya. since black and white I thought
cazalla: not the app one you download but the paid monthly service, i thought it was more recent but perhaps i am wrong, i bow to your knowledge as a pokemon master
thestringpuller: lol i'm not pokemone master
thestringpuller: not since 99'
thestringpuller: '99 ***
mircea_popescu: decimation there's a fundamental difference between those who use tools and those who make tools.
decimation: what about those who make 'tools'?
mircea_popescu: take a week to work in say a supermarket or something. the helplessness of common postmodern man (well, mostly woman) is impressive.
mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/mhmhnATj << tales from the ddos.
assbot: 10 2 1 5 220 - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1tEz7hO )
decimation: interesting, from singapore
mircea_popescu: teh qty of work poured into it is kinda lulzy.
decimation: can you see if it is actually http traffic or is it more pnp reflection?
mircea_popescu: <assbot> New lie detector relies on full-body suit for better accuracy | ITworld << makes me think... most dudes think they know fucking...
mircea_popescu: maybe it should be dildo.
mircea_popescu: decimation no it's http.
mircea_popescu: - - [05/Jan/2015:09:16:48 -0500] "GET etc
BingoBoingo: At this rate actual IPv4 addresses will never be exhausted. too many are simply occupied atm by lusers and spammzors
mircea_popescu: or derps.
mircea_popescu: ipv4 "not being enough" is a sad symptom of letting too many people in.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like "there are not enough places in college for all the kids"
mircea_popescu: backwards.
BingoBoingo: Except now there are too many places in college for the kids, because people dun wanna go no moar.
mircea_popescu: also that.
mircea_popescu: so practical macroeconomics exercise. venezuela, which is in the shitter, quotes the dollar officially at 12 bolivars. meanwhile, black rate is ~170.
mircea_popescu: the govt is considering yielding, and bringing the official bolivar to 50ish.
mircea_popescu: should it do that, what's the likely evolution of the black market rate ?
mircea_popescu: http://cachecdn.cdnhost2000xl.com/tthumbs/2/27145.jpg and a vignette to help the thinking process along.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xzeE34 )
BingoBoingo: Well, I imagine dilemma isn't too different from my present ability to buy a gallon of gas for $2 because America is dumping its entire oild reserve now to try to fuck Russia in this moment.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39050 @ 0.0006564 = 25.6324 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/lGxKLnX.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xzfNr8 )
BingoBoingo: lol
decimation: http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/05/blowback-on-the-saudi-border-senior-general-killed/ << us isn't dumping oil, saudi arabia is, and not doing too well
assbot: The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Blowback on the Saudi Border – Senior General Killed ... ( http://bit.ly/1BCgjnJ )
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Old lead mining town there. Can't expect much brightness there.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00066138 = 22.0901 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: !up svetlana
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10281 @ 0.0006555 = 6.7392 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up nubbins`
nubbins`: well hello
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4870 @ 0.00066186 = 3.2233 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: hello nubbins`
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00064031 = 9.6367 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00063731 = 4.493 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: decimation amusingly enough pretty much everyone is selling under production
mircea_popescu: but they're not stopping.
mircea_popescu: now, why that is...
mircea_popescu: if anyone cares, there was another ddos bout, but it didn't do anything.
kakobrekla: wai you get all the fun
kakobrekla: :(
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00062519 = 3.0009 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i guess cause i'm taller ?
kakobrekla: not by that much...
mircea_popescu: maybe it's first past the pole.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00063731 = 10.9936 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00066266 = 19.1509 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: o look, nubsy
mircea_popescu: finally found the internet end of the cable ?
mircea_popescu: o look, another one lol.
mircea_popescu: neways, enough excitement for one night. laters!
punkman: asciilifeform: not everyone can afford golden toilet, but anyone can have a throne with ipv6. << relevant http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2014/31c3_-_6370_-_en_-_saal_g_-_201412281900_-_internet_of_toilets_-_tbsprs.html#video
assbot: C3TV -Internet of toilets ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD7KNm )
asciilifeform: quotes the dollar officially at 12 bolivars. meanwhile, black rate is ~17 << mega-lol!! >> at one point, iirc, 'vanity' exchange rate of soviet ruble was 12 per usd.
asciilifeform: (yes, people found ways to 'milk' it.)
asciilifeform: https://books.google.com/books?id=Ut_0AgAAQBAJ&lpg=PA44&ots=uzdXPijFi9&dq=ruble%20vanity%20exchange%20rate&pg=PA44#v=onepage&q=ruble%20vanity%20exchange%20rate&f=false << herr orlov's recollections
assbot: The Five Stages of Collapse: Survivors' Toolkit - Dmitry Orlov - Google Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMOThs )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16487 @ 0.00066355 = 10.9399 BTC [+]
punkman: http://www.routercheck.com/2014/08/14/major-problems-tr-069/ http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2014/31c3_-_6166_-_en_-_saal_6_-_201412282145_-_too_many_cooks_-_exploiting_the_internet-of-tr-069-things_-_lior_oppenheim_-_shahar_tal.html
assbot: Major Problems with TR-069 - RouterCheck ... ( http://bit.ly/1HDc5QC )
assbot: C3TV -Too Many Cooks - Exploiting the Internet-of-TR-069-Things ... ( http://bit.ly/1HDc671 )
punkman: so where do I get real router again?
punkman: or rather PCI dsl modem
asciilifeform: 'openwrt' etc, on hardware of reasonable vintage
asciilifeform: build - personally.
asciilifeform: (this gets you over the arguably low bar of having the router be no more exploitable than the machine(s) it is connected to...)
punkman: as in old router/modem thingy?
asciilifeform: as in something that doesn't have a multitude of undocumented internal sub-cpu cores running fuck knows what
asciilifeform: (see earlier 'arm' threads)
asciilifeform: must remind readers that your machines are as 'real' - or unreal - as you are.
asciilifeform: would you buy an x86 pc box and use it with the factory-installed softs? no? then why would you do this with router ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26406 @ 0.00066355 = 17.5217 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4535 @ 0.00065246 = 2.9589 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29515 @ 0.00066764 = 19.7054 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12467 @ 0.00066934 = 8.3447 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00067046 = 5.7995 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10733 @ 0.00066982 = 7.1892 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00063473 = 12.5042 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet created: "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $40 before Mar 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1096/
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $40 before Mar 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1096/ Odds: 96(Y):4(N) by coin, 96(Y):4(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.12 BTC. Current weight: 99,703.
cazalla: BitBet.us - Rejected - that feeling of failure :\
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00062865 = 7.3552 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00062519 = 14.3794 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8006 @ 0.00062865 = 5.033 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00062892 = 12.0124 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14244 @ 0.00062903 = 8.9599 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.0006405 = 14.6675 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8906 @ 0.00063521 = 5.6572 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00062969 = 2.1095 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00062519 = 8.8464 BTC [-]
cazalla: woohoo, go to shops, find an intact tower on side of road otw back
cazalla: "property of IBM Australia Credit Limited"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00062687 = 9.215 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.00062519 = 4.1575 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23193 @ 0.00062446 = 14.4831 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22722 @ 0.00063318 = 14.3871 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2375 @ 0.00079899 = 1.8976 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00065028 = 2.0484 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00064844 = 12.2555 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00062913 = 5.2847 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29400 @ 0.00062236 = 18.2974 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: ;;later tell jurov re: dec. qntra shares http://dpaste.com/3FJ1DGC
assbot: dpaste: 3FJ1DGC ... ( http://bit.ly/1DtDBNU )
mike_c: oh. doh. stupid gribble
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2678 @ 0.00061857 = 1.6565 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29300 @ 0.00061615 = 18.0532 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39822 @ 0.00062137 = 24.7442 BTC [+] {2}
TomServo: !up nubbins`
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37715 @ 0.0006136 = 23.1419 BTC [-] {3}
thestringpuller: nubbins`!!
thestringpuller: sir nubbins` returns for the btc apocalypse
nubbins`: greetings, fellow wealthy elite
TomServo: !up Naphex
Naphex: thanks
thestringpuller: how goes it nubbins` curator and creator of dee arts
TomServo: !up nubbins`
TomServo: nubbins`: if you're still wanting to see your work in the wild, here you go: http://i.imgur.com/EAXAWHL.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1tM62GS )
nubbins`: busy
nubbins`: oh, right on!
nubbins`: #52, that's pretty low
nubbins`: in fact, #2 from the publicly-available ones :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00061287 = 9.8059 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00063966 = 14.8401 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: glad to know you haven't been kidnapped by terrorists mr. nubbins`
jurov: mike_c thanks!
nubbins`: or have i
mike_c: yw. a few bitcents in the tip jar :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00061287 = 5.1481 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;later tell mircea_popescu care to send qntr shares over?
mike_c: gribble is still dead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10429 @ 0.00063966 = 6.671 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00063391 = 16.2598 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15523 @ 0.00063966 = 9.9294 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 155 @ 0.00670182 = 1.0388 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 127 @ 0.00807821 = 1.0259 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21971 @ 0.00064356 = 14.1397 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18244 @ 0.00063088 = 11.5098 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: jurov: http://dpaste.com/1BV7FCV
assbot: dpaste: 1BV7FCV ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfTV7U )
BingoBoingo: Thx
BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: ty :)
jurov: BingoBoingo: good but it needs a destination
jurov: it's the same as last month?
BingoBoingo: Yeah
pete_dushenski: lol this is the random trilema post that just popped up for me: http://trilema.com/2013/any-questions/
assbot: Any questions ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfWiaJ )
pete_dushenski: ^fitting
mike_c: oh i miss mpoe-pr: "Yes, for as long as you don't try to take them out they're safe."
pete_dushenski: those years in the trenches...
pete_dushenski: mike_c so anything exciting in the pipeline for btcalpha ?
mike_c: much improved bitbet analyzer coming soon. it is being stubborn about getting finished, but it will happen.
pete_dushenski: a nice
pete_dushenski: i've used it a few times
pete_dushenski: can't say it terribly influenced my decisions, or if it did, not for the better.
mike_c: hehe. more betting!
pete_dushenski: the optimised tangent always encourages what is imo over-betting
mike_c: well, the "correct" amount to bet depends on what you think the % chance of the event happening is.
pete_dushenski: "pot odds"
mike_c: the new analyzer will tell you how much to bet based on your input of % of event happenning.
pete_dushenski: heh i like the sound of that
pete_dushenski: mike_c don't suppose there's been any bidders for wol eh ?
mike_c: nope
pete_dushenski: what did it cost to build ?
pete_dushenski: roughly
mike_c: six months of my life and $5k?
pete_dushenski: let's say you're worth $100k per year? so $55 k.
mike_c: i am worth much more than that.
pete_dushenski: lol this we know ;)
mike_c: (not that i'm bitter)
pete_dushenski: but your net worth != your hypothetical salary either
pete_dushenski: your salary would be based on your skills as applied to this project
mike_c: how much do you think it would cost to hire someone to build something like that and trust that it would be done well?
mike_c: your estimation was $50 / hr. I doubt that is the case.
pete_dushenski: well a decent lawyer is $350/hr
pete_dushenski: let's say we're talking that level of professionalism
mike_c: that is excessive. call it $100/hr.
pete_dushenski: ok, so wol is $105k.
mike_c: feels right
pete_dushenski: hm ya
pete_dushenski: surprisingly close to the ~500 btc ipo
pete_dushenski: if you have $200 btc, which we almost do
pete_dushenski: but of course the cost to build doesn't equal the value of the finished product
pete_dushenski: a useful product should be valued much higher, a useless product much lower
pete_dushenski: anyways, now we know that mike_c is $100/hr!
mike_c: don't believe it. i'm not for hire :)
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3XHEG1P.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 2 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: http://i61.tinypic.com/aczr6x.png < lol
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dg3cMZ )
mircea_popescu: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2015/01/xoom-corp-fraud-30m-corporate-cash-cfo.html cazalla / BingoBoingo
assbot: Xoom Corp. CFO resigns after fraudsters steal $30.8M in corporate cash - San Francisco Business Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dg3uDG )
mircea_popescu: pity i hadn't made a derp for THIS one.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: ^fitting << hehe not bad eh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14297 @ 0.00062758 = 8.9725 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: prescient!
mircea_popescu: lol.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11628 @ 0.00065027 = 7.5613 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: i guess the largest shock to noobs is swallowing the actual history of mp-*, as it was.
mircea_popescu: too livresque for reason.
mircea_popescu: jurov: ;;later tell mircea_popescu care to send qntr shares over? << aye.
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/01/remittance-company-xoom-loses-corporate-cash-to-fraud/
assbot: Remittance Company Xoom Loses Corporate Cash To Fraud | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1IlQryE )
mircea_popescu: check that out, this new year was 1420070400. at some point during ny eve it crossed 1,42 trillion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14256 @ 0.000655 = 9.3377 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo if you add another whole paragraph about how dollars are inherently unsafe, used by terrorists and probably not going to "make it", culled directly from the idiocy spewed by idiots about btc
mircea_popescu: i'd love you long time.
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/01/remittance-company-xoom-loses-corporate-cash-to-fraud/
mircea_popescu: should be standard practice for any article mentioning fiat. the msm is doing it to us, obviously we'll be doing it to them. let teh public pick up the pieces.
BingoBoingo: k
pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/Sathnam/status/552395263655280641
assbot: Love how Zuckerberg talks about books as if they are funky new app he has discovered. From /thetimes http://t.co/rum1YGcSt8
pete_dushenski: and i'm off. cheers!
mircea_popescu: i really don't think they should be called books properly.
mircea_popescu: clearly they infringe on facebook intellectual propertahs.
BingoBoingo: updated
mircea_popescu: i dun think it saved or something ?
BingoBoingo: I didn't add much this time. Gotta think of more lines for future fiat articles.
mircea_popescu: yeh not very good.
mircea_popescu: mainly because it somehow elides that the problem is the dollar.
mircea_popescu: anyway, too lazy to go into the 2012-2013 collection of "media" derpage.
BingoBoingo: Takes time to get the venom ready. There's bound to be other stories to dip in the venom when its ready.
mircea_popescu: tis a point hehe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25925 @ 0.00065029 = 16.8588 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me... it must suck to be a lesbian. i mean a real one, the whatever, .4% demographic.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/mpex-smpoe-december-2014-statement/
mircea_popescu: not only are your odds of finding a like minded soul vanishingly tiny, but you're deluged in all the fat idiots who think that they may "hate men", as something that's at their disposal, and it's your job and obligation to humor them, because "you're different".
mircea_popescu: and will raise hell if you dare observe that they're the same stinky, unbearable, impossible idiots that men think they are, pretending lesbianism is not a magical cure.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile gay men have for one thing five to ten times as many legit other gay men to meet, and looser dudes make up "men going alone" clubs instead of deciding they're now gay and the gay community must turn itself into mcdonalds to accomodate them.
thestringpuller: cazalla: back yet?
bitstein: Gavin just posted this. Thought y'all would be interested: http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2015/01/looking-before-scaling-up-leap.html
assbot: GavinTech: Looking before the Scaling Up Leap ... ( http://bit.ly/1xOTk8l )
asciilifeform: axe-time, sword-time, coming closer
mircea_popescu: i can't be arsed to read blogspot junk.
mircea_popescu: maybe if someone important said something. maybe.
TomServo: What would Gavin be referring to when he says "the reference implementation"?
mircea_popescu: systemd, perhaps.
TomServo: heh
mircea_popescu: i dunno that they have much other reference.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, gavin hasn't been making any sense for a long time now.
TomServo: Yes, and reading this makes that ring even more true.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla check out the power and influence of bitbet. so, there's http://bitbet.us/bet/962/obama-approval-rating-over-45-in-2014/
assbot: BitBet - Obama Approval Rating over 45% in 2014 :: 0.16 B (53%) on Yes, 0.14 B (47%) on No | closed 2 weeks 5 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1xOWMjn )
mircea_popescu: now check out gallup : http://www.gallup.com/poll/116479/Barack-Obama-Presidential-Job-Approval.aspx
assbot: Presidential Approval Ratings -- Barack Obama | Gallup Historical Data & Trends ... ( http://bit.ly/1xOWN76 )
mircea_popescu: NEVER throughout the year has it been over 45
mircea_popescu: except they shoved a 46 in there at the end for the first week of 2015. which, of course, includes three days of 2014.
mircea_popescu: this was a coincidence, right ? and gallup actually conducts its polls, like irl, right ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00061584 = 10.6232 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu achtung
mircea_popescu: hm ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu incoming pgp
mircea_popescu: coolness.
kakobrekla: yes, the power of coincidence is great power.
Apocalyptic: wtf blogspot doesn't load at all without js, seriously... bitstein could you post a text pastebin ?
bitstein: http://pastebin.com/YfQLnKQz
assbot: Looking before the Scaling Up Leap - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1xBMVyG )
Apocalyptic: thank you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5575 @ 0.00062973 = 3.5107 BTC [+]
jurov: BingoBoingo thestringpuller : qntra shares transferred
mircea_popescu: scoopbot -fetch
mircea_popescu: !echo scoopbot -fetch
mircea_popescu: hm.
thestringpuller: jurov: thank you
mircea_popescu: bitstein thanks for the pastebin.
kakobrekla: heh, i sent some ppl to check the logs sometimes, mostly i get back "what language is this, english?"
mircea_popescu: i guess it's time to write a post about all this.
bitstein: You're welcome
rithm: 20mb blocks eh
rithm: 200mb blocks even
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/oil-theory/
thestringpuller: lol scoopy scoopy doo
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: do we have to bring our own pitchforks or will they be provided for us?
asciilifeform: own
kakobrekla: >Oil does not come out of the ground naturally,
asciilifeform: presently true
kakobrekla: well it was discovered by coming out of the ground naturally.
asciilifeform: was.
mircea_popescu: wtf was the buterin scamcoin called, eleuterium ?
mircea_popescu: eleusys ?
asciilifeform: 'etherium'
mircea_popescu: a ty
Apocalyptic: wasn't it "ethereum" ?
TomServo: Yes.
asciilifeform: hm
kakobrekla: oh wow they had 8 POC implementations so far.
kakobrekla: they will run out of money by the 60th.
TomServo: Another 2k or so left their wallet recently, incidentally.
kakobrekla: how much left?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19387 @ 0.00063255 = 12.2632 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: they will be resupplied as long as derps have money I fear
kakobrekla: left to leave
asciilifeform: waterfall.
kakobrekla: i doubt they will get resupplied tbh
TomServo: 17,521.36256657
Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, wait for the new exclusive presale of new ethers, -50% NOW !
TomServo: Only gone down from the 27,000ish peak around Sep 1
kakobrekla: muh.
asciilifeform: i dare to suggest a possible term for another thing the ethereum folks do; 'chump fracking'
asciilifeform: just as in hydraulic fracturing, foreign substance is pumped into the earth to liberate the goods,
kakobrekla: which is ?
asciilifeform: synthetic chumps (btc stolen by usg organs) is pumped into eth
kakobrekla: paper btc
kakobrekla: ?
asciilifeform: not only to drive waterfall directly, but to create an appearance of a 'happening', 'hot' chumpatron
asciilifeform: and bring in the naturally-occurring but recalcitrant chumpers.
kakobrekla: as far as i understand sibert now runs paper fund
kakobrekla: silbert*
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13231 @ 0.00061737 = 8.1684 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: how much did he have under his belt anyway, 20k, 200k ? i forgot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9681 @ 0.00061415 = 5.9456 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo / cazalla : http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/
assbot: If you go on a Bitcoin fork, irrespective which scammer proposes it, you will lose your Bitcoins. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgNTE2 )
TomServo: Found a coidesk article from April saying 100k
mircea_popescu: sort-of news.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> as far as i understand sibert now runs paper fund << kinda my understanding as well. but hey, if his customers are happy with it...
mircea_popescu: oh and bitstein ^
mircea_popescu: now if mod6 an' ben_vulpes + whoever else can contribute get snappy with the actual foudnation work, the beheading of gavin's pretense will come exactly in time for a smooth transition to a muchly superior alternative.
asciilifeform feels guilt re: mod6-vuples foundation, almost like it were a bastard son he can't quite afford to feed
mircea_popescu: i dun imagine they'll pretend like they "tested" it in less than a few months, so there's still a season i'd guess.
asciilifeform is sitting on a shameful quantity of unfinished patches for their apparatus
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu: which one(s) of you is even doing the merges, anyway ?
mircea_popescu: i thought jurov
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: wasn't he maintaining the list an errything ?
asciilifeform: list, yes. wasn't sure about the tree itself
asciilifeform vaguely recalls ben_vulpes having wangled together an autobuilder of sorts
mircea_popescu: ah
mircea_popescu: and, of course, much like in the case of the "ethereum short" nobody actually bought, here is me looking for counterparties willing to buy gavin-bitcoins on the understanding that the transaction will only be valid on the gavin fork, but not in actual bitcoin.
asciilifeform: the 'gaw' crap boggles my mind. how is this shit even still possible.
mircea_popescu: ideally 1k+ piles.
asciilifeform: it has to be chump fracking.
mircea_popescu: yes, it is.
kakobrekla: gaw is not usg powered
kakobrekla: just greed.
asciilifeform: on the contrary, synthetic chumpfracking fluid is a usg product.
mircea_popescu: stupidity i thought, but yes.
mircea_popescu: who implied us powering ?
kakobrekla: ascii did with the fracking.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, they're naturally that clueless.
mircea_popescu: i mean if you must, in a very 3rd hand way, "through ruining public schools" or w/e.
asciilifeform: from whence come the mass of idiot coin, though
mircea_popescu: what brings you over mquin ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from the fertile union of a very strong "must succeed" ideology and a very narrow "math is hard" cluelessness.
mquin: mircea_popescu: we seem to be getting questions about this channel and cloaking quite regularly lately
mircea_popescu: !s from:t
assbot: 19 results for 'from:t' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3At
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/
mircea_popescu: there's the previous discussion with t[homas] ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, includes a pastebin of the #freenode discussion etc.
kakobrekla: so if the majority of miners accepts the fork mpex is out of luck ?
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: if a majority of miners accepts the fork they still have to relay and mine all my txn.
mircea_popescu: for as long as there's one miner that doesn't, however...
kakobrekla: aha youll open a pool.
mircea_popescu: this is one of those requiring absolute consensus.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla all i need really is a tiny miner. even gpus will do.
mircea_popescu: heck, if 99% of miners move to the fake chain all the better - lower real diff for a while.
mircea_popescu: the fake coins they mine won't actually be worth anything once the fake chain dies. sort-of longest orphan block in history.
kakobrekla: vs the gpu miners :)
mircea_popescu: hey, this is what people with gpus wanted all along, right ? a chance to mine again.
mircea_popescu: if any of the asic farms is stupid enough to update (which is sort-of doubt, but hey, stupidity is bottomless) then they get their wish.
asciilifeform: 'lenin is young again!' (tm)
mircea_popescu: notably, at absolutely no cost. it's like a gift.
kakobrekla: i dont think asics needs upgrading
mircea_popescu: who can say no to gifts.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla "upgrading" in the limited sense of building on a 1mb+ block.
mircea_popescu: which no miner currently does.
kakobrekla: yes but switching is not something that takes time or resources.
mircea_popescu: well no, switching doesn't. but mining in the dead chain takes as many resources as you're willing to throw at it.
kakobrekla: for pool op is something like apt-get update and done
mircea_popescu: might as well mine the wall.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, if anyone wants to make a pool for the purpose that can't hurt anything.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2015/open-a-better-ircd-rfc/#comment-111208
assbot: [OPEN] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgUhLt )
mircea_popescu: artifexd ya was just looking for you in the list lol
artifexd: I have decided that I like this ircd project.
mircea_popescu: o hey.
mircea_popescu: can you actually do it ?
artifexd: I like it to the point of being willing to commit time to do it.
mircea_popescu: am i s/open/artifexd/ ?
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2015/open-a-better-ircd-rfc/#comment-111210
assbot: [OPEN] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgV4fg )
asciilifeform: answerd
artifexd: Would you like to discuss in here or keep it in the comments?
asciilifeform believes that the scheme as originally described is disastrously mistaken
mircea_popescu: coments best!
artifexd: mircea_popescu> am i s/open/artifexd/ ? << huh?
rithm: port 1337 tho kinda elitist don't you think
TomServo: Nah, just leetist
rithm: 7000 would be more in line as a "standard" irc port with security
asciilifeform: but this isn't irc !
TomServo: a port is a port
rithm: riiiight
asciilifeform: has no one actually -read- the thing ?
artifexd: mircea_popescu> can you actually do it ? << There are mad amounts of detail to work out. That said, yes. I can do it.
rithm: so it's a new rfc and interoperability means nothing
rithm: i forgot it's unicorn land please continue
kakobrekla: i think the idea is to fix shit, not make it more beautiful.
rithm: seems like centralized mechanism to prevent mitm, really only becomes decentralize with more /links
asciilifeform: centralized ?
asciilifeform: rithm: did you actually read mircea_popescu's article ?
rithm: i think i'm looking at it now
punkman: hilarious uncloaking exploits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1OHO4FJvKs
assbot: DerbyCon 3 0 2306 Uncloaking Ip Addresses On Irc Derek Callaway - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgWMx6 )
mircea_popescu: artifexd am i editing the thing to reflect you're doin' it.
rithm: b. A list of IPs
rithm: the "thing" scales with /links to other "things"
mircea_popescu: <rithm> port 1337 tho kinda elitist don't you think << yes, i do.
rithm: so the client is the server in this scenario or not? is it more p2p or not because i'm not seeing this definition in the language
punkman: (and some text related to video http://decal.sdf.org/spotfedsonline/ )
assbot: Spot The Fed: Online Edition ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgXcDI )
rithm: traditional irc is clinet/server but this isn't irc
mircea_popescu: there is no "Server"
mircea_popescu: much like in bitcoin, some will run larger clients which people can reliably connect to.
mircea_popescu: but they'd still be running the client code, more or less.
rithm: if it scales verically like "interaction" with this thing creates a new "server" then that doesn't sound centralized
mircea_popescu: <rithm> so it's a new rfc and interoperability means nothing << interoperability with what ?
asciilifeform: active thread on mircea_popescu's site, btw
rithm: not that architecture, but I'm not reading that definition on trilema
rithm: TFA title says ircd but it's not something to interoperate with any known ircd correct
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00061415 = 5.4659 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: correct.
asciilifeform: perhaps misleading title, 'better ircd', i admit i almost postponed reading it when first saw on account of this
mircea_popescu: ftr, the car was called "a better horse buggy" originally.
punkman: forward secrecy would be nice if possible
mircea_popescu: if one doesn't buy into the entire "branding, even if or especially if before the fact" one's stuck with this. i don't mind it so much.
mircea_popescu: punkman forward secrecy is a one on one affair, mostly. the salt is supposed to implement as much as it's possible, and the lack of signatures.
mircea_popescu: perhaps i don't actually see the whole ball there tho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i argue that all transmissions must be signed, if this is to be the thing it is really meant to be.
mircea_popescu: but seriously, let's move all discussion on the article, otherwise it'll be hard to fish from logs later on
mircea_popescu shall make further responses there.
mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rk3it/score_so_far_gavins_fork_0btc_mps_fork_killer_1/ << lol ty mr hahs, whoever you are.
assbot: Score so far: Gavin's fork, 0BTC | MP's fork killer, 1 million BTC? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgYLBR )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/ << updated.
assbot: [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgZHpO )
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> heck, if 99% of miners move to the fake chain all the better - lower real diff for a while. << why if 99% of miners move onto that chain, would anyone ever move off?
mircea_popescu: because they can't spend the fake btc they "mined"
mircea_popescu: (i don't mean technically, i mean financially, nobody's accepting it for value)
jurov: but if 99% of miners move to the fake chain, then it will take years till difficulty adjusts.. or we§d have to fork it and adjust anyway
mircea_popescu: from the perspective of the blockchain, the situation is identical to "what woud happen if 99% of miners turned their rigs off"
mircea_popescu: well... nothing ? once they turn them back on they can mine again.
kakobrekla doesnt have great hopes for this upcoming blockchain size war.
Apocalyptic: jurov, good point
jurov: and how it comes financially? suddenly the garzikcoin stop being excnaged for stuff cuz mircea said so?
jurov: *exchanged
mircea_popescu: no, just, mircea's bitcoin in its gavin aspect is being sold. so miners of gavin chain will have to compete with that.
punkman: btw the irc services library used by freenode is EOL'd
punkman: "There will not be another release cycle after Atheme 7.2. We encourage the community to fork Atheme and choose the most suitable forks to drive IRC forward. To this end, we will maintain Atheme 7.2 as a suitable base for forking until October 31, 2015, with all services terminating on October 31, 2016."
mircea_popescu: and merchants accepting it will have to somehow finance the risk, too.
Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, as in you doubt the outcome will be in favour of b-a ?
mircea_popescu: i kinda doubt they actually have the guts to go through with it,
mircea_popescu: but hey.
mircea_popescu: you don't always get the maximal fun out of situations.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, artifexd, other interested folks: http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/#comment-111218
assbot: [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dh3OC1 )
mircea_popescu: jurov that 99% figure is mostly a joke. look at the exchanges as they are, think what even a 50k wall would do at say 30 usd per. how exactly are thjose 99% of miners going to finance operations for a week when their block reward is worth ~750 bux ?
mircea_popescu: at best gavin will manage to crush the gavin-bitcoin to whatever it was in 2012 and that's that.
mircea_popescu: nobody's pouring out peta hashes for free for weeks on end.
jurov: you mean you will dump 50k gavins?
mircea_popescu: i will dump all my bitcoin, on the gavin fork.
kakobrekla: you know why we have miners?
artifexd: asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: show teh us how dumping's actually done. what, dja have any idea how long i pined for an opportuniy to play the easy side of this game ?
kakobrekla: cause they cant do math.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeah, right.
artifexd: asciilifeform: I was typing up that exact same idea
mircea_popescu: not what i've been hearing from teh chinese folks on the topic, but w/e, gavin's more than welcome to persevere in his usg-is-the-world delusions.
kakobrekla: they will in fact mine with ev-
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla for how long ?
asciilifeform: the miners in the sealed mine will mine on body fat for as long as they can.
mircea_popescu: 1mn a day. how long ?
akisora: Thanks. I was wondering how things worked here since gribble is offline
akisora: I can't auth on gribble. Not that I have any ratings
mircea_popescu: they work... barely.
kakobrekla: ill just say my guess is better than sexygingers.
mircea_popescu: well sure.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, this "they'll mine at -ev" is from the days of gpus.
kakobrekla: nah.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, miner farms are actually pretty stretched as it is, financially.
asciilifeform: artifexd: http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/#comment-111220
assbot: [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dh5lIy )
kakobrekla: dude, vps is like a dollar a month.
kakobrekla: (for the purpose of bouncer)
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: there are folks about (some even in #b-a) who have a habit of using something other than an actual computer for their daily work (i won't point fingers)
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they will succumb to the temptation of running the entire demon, and not merely a proxy, on the 'bouncer.'
kakobrekla: i thought nobody even has an actual computer.
asciilifeform: doctor will say to patient 'if it hurts, stop doing it'
asciilifeform: but the entire problem is entirely avoidable
asciilifeform: minimal standard of computer for purpose of this thread
kakobrekla: :)
asciilifeform: box that will compile and run an unpretentious posix demon without major handholding
kakobrekla: context always fucks everything up.
mircea_popescu: no kako, it's u! not context!
mircea_popescu: :D
mircea_popescu: jurov this discussion entirely elides the more important point of "why in the fuck would miners even consider a proposal that inflates their main ware".
mircea_popescu: the block rewards keeps going down. how are they going to make money if there's no pressure on txn to pay ? is gavin going to give them it ?
Apocalyptic: this falls to kako's argument "they can't do math"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00064331 = 5.1143 BTC [+]
jurov: we don't know who the damn miners actually are anymore
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic kako's argument needs a "and the govt will print money and give it to them. forever" companion.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, it's as good as the argument that "my horse doesn't need to eat"
mircea_popescu: jurov "we". i kinda do.
jurov: i see. so you are certain these entities are mostly motivated by profit.
mircea_popescu: yes.
Apocalyptic: "rational entities" will be sufficient imo
mircea_popescu: even the statal actors have a limited budget.
mircea_popescu: this war exceeds that.
asciilifeform: the only way enemy could win this hypothetical engagement is if he can set his fork up to 'catabolically break down' the original bitcoin network ( mircea_popescu's army on the board )
thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rji9f/looking_before_the_scaling_up_leap_by_gavin/ << these comments are giving me brain cancer
asciilifeform: say, by engineering a continuous double-spend attempt into normal operation of 'usgcoin' miners
asciilifeform: (double-spend on the 'actual' net, naturally)
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the lulzy part in there is "clearly the thing that's not needed but we kept repeating that it is, is in fact needed. because...uh..."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what'd that do ?
akisora: did Gavin just say there are special rules for coinbase??
mircea_popescu: hm ?
akisora: In the article linked in the reddit thestringpuller posted Gavin said "2. There are special rules for 'coinbase' transactions: there can be only one coinbase transaction per block, it must be the first transaction, etc."
akisora: What the fuck is that? lol
akisora: I don't understand what is going on with that
Apocalyptic: akisora, coinbase transactions, not "Coinbase" the company
mircea_popescu: akisora this was always the case.
akisora: oh okay :)
mircea_popescu: the "coinbase" tx is the tx that pays the miners for the block mined, that 25 btc
thestringpuller: d00d
thestringpuller: my iq is dropping
thestringpuller: i need to stop reading this
thestringpuller: but it's like watching a really bad movie
thestringpuller: you cna't look away
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under 200$ before Feb" http://bitbet.us/bet/1095/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.03161579 BTC. Current weight: 88,975.
thestringpuller: !up hanbot
hanbot: thx thestringpuller
thestringpuller: np
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what'd that do ? << if your estimate in 'this was exceeds that [necessary budget]' is correct - it will do nothing.
asciilifeform: *war
mircea_popescu: perhaps.
mircea_popescu: the us has a lengthy history of getting involved in wars it can't afford
hanbot: BingoBoingo http://pastebin.com/npDQM1iT (re xoom piece)
assbot: Despite Xoom's vague assertion that "it doesn't think that customer data or cust - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1yxYKHX )
mircea_popescu: and the us muppets are currently shivering to death in a "democratic" ukraine that CLEARLY had to have its block sizes increased.
mircea_popescu: so... you never know.
mircea_popescu: i always hope on the side of getting to do some raping. and pillaging.
mircea_popescu: ohai hanbot :D
asciilifeform: 'here's a lesson all must learn: first you pillage, then you burn'
hanbot: hallo!
mircea_popescu: lol@ piece.
mircea_popescu: totally should contrib moar to qntra.
asciilifeform: 'going the way of linux' << depressing
mircea_popescu: depression : just another public service i offer.
asciilifeform: 'wagner: free; cyanide - extra five pfennigs'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14962 @ 0.00064907 = 9.7114 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/music/birthday-dirge-faq/ btw.
assbot: [FAQ] Lyrics for The Birthday Dirge ... ( http://bit.ly/1yy0yAJ )
mircea_popescu: Burn the castle, storm the keep, kill the women, save the sheep.
asciilifeform: 'May your deeds with sword and axe / Equal those with sheep and yaks.'
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-snsa-november-2014-and-december-2014-joint-statement/
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: did a series of small asteroids just hit fleanode or what.
asciilifeform: the node i was plugged into - is dead now.
asciilifeform: (incidentally, at least every other fleanode host has broken 'sasl' auth. learn which ones, if your client has 'auto-connect' to #b-a)
mircea_popescu: "Saudi Arabia shipped 54 percent of its crude oil exports to Asia in 2013, with another 17 percent to the United States, according to Saudi Aramco's annual report. It shipped just 5.4 percent to Europe and 6.7 percent to the Mediterranean. In total, crude exports ran at 6.8 million bpd."
mircea_popescu: "petrodollar" indeed lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sasl is dysfunctional anyway.
asciilifeform: well yes. but it is 'duct tape' for the cloak thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6738 @ 0.00063478 = 4.2771 BTC [-]
asciilifeform makes small 'public service announcement' that, with gribble dead, any one of us present company could be hitler.
asciilifeform: or rather, at any time could have been hitler, but previously the fuhrer would have been required to put in a little sweat and pwn fleanode wholesale, whereas now he just needs to break nickserv
asciilifeform: or just slip in a few packets
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00065281 = 20.4982 BTC [+] {5}