mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you got a link to that hacking course thing that was crypto oriented ?
mircea_popescu: i been looking for it magically can't find it. the one that had the rsa break in the last fascicle
mircea_popescu: nono it was a course, you were supposed to email your results
assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 15:50:28; artifexd:
http://cryptopals.com/ <- some nice lessons teaching how crypto works, how to attack it, and how easy it is to screw it up
mircea_popescu: stupid fucking name. anyway, towards the end there's some good foundational stuff. perhaps not directly useful for the purpose at hand, but very good to get your head swiveled in the right position
artifexd: I will pause coding to read "Malicious Crypto" and finish the course. I'll report back when I'm done and made a decision re: golang's crypto libraries.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00044297 = 17.9846 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50187 @ 0.00044223 = 22.1942 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00043747 = 20.5611 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37413 @ 0.00043704 = 16.351 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34624 @ 0.00043262 = 14.979 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48500 @ 0.0004291 = 20.8114 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13876 @ 0.00042036 = 5.8329 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: anyway, the wot has been forked into assbot and is running now
kakobrekla: that means we are no longer depended on gribble
kakobrekla: as ascii pointe out, session is bad so there is no more that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea is to import gribble's wot but mark it as gribble's, and allow others to import assbot's wot.
mircea_popescu: i'll get on nano's case to see if he's willing to put it all into gribble.
kakobrekla: for example, i have upped myself via pm, yet;
kakobrekla: !verify assbot:kakobrekla.rate.mircea_popescu.-10:61751f23d45137825f4ecd78de4a6afb42d01c5d9c6b802b6ec6f4b135e47504
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 3 to -10 with note: scammer
mircea_popescu: this is almost as if someone sat down and thought about it.
kakobrekla: !v assbot:kakobrekla.rate.mircea_popescu.5:1676039169b957f6a18439b6daeade5919887f01b82d832f7b01e7e97885216c
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from -10 to 5 with note: good fella
assbot: You rated user mircea_popescu on 16-Dec-2012, with a rating of 5, and supplied these additional notes: good fella.
kakobrekla: !changekey CB39A1B24F01ADE0A597552D70C68A9048079D7A
kakobrekla: !v assbot:kakobrekla.changekey.cb39a1b24f01ade0a597552d70c68a9048079d7a:f08dfbbdc1e3292ded6d3e8072857f50c284aa922832b4329354bd5cb54b45c7
assbot: Key 48079D7A / "test test <test@test>" successfully imported.
assbot: New key fingerprint for kakobrekla is: CB39A1B24F01ADE0A597552D70C68A9048079D7A
kakobrekla: !changekey 27C3CE9A20851312F086268C27AF75321F2489E8
kakobrekla: !v assbot:kakobrekla.changekey.27c3ce9a20851312f086268c27af75321f2489e8:bfef481697fe5e3612c388f8d894f2d1d624e57cf99c1545f9a65b98ce076a62
assbot: No changes, key already exists.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu what do you mean 'source' ?
kakobrekla: ah forgot to mention, otps can be executed out of order, but they are valid only for 15 min
kakobrekla: and you dont have to be on chan to use it.
kakobrekla: also if we downrate someone to l2=0 you should be able to !down immediately now, although i havent tested it.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla as in, if the rating was given via here, or imported from gribble's db
mircea_popescu: would be useful. then we have gribble-assbot talk to each other via diffs
kakobrekla: ah and another detail, if you noticed there is no place to specify your 'wot' nick
kakobrekla: which means you irc nick is your wot nick
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.00042168 = 17.0359 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: You rated user kakobrekla on 03-Mar-2013, with a rating of 5, and supplied these additional notes: too much stuff to list. inquire within..
kakobrekla: yeah your political strike was totally worth it.
PeterL: so the link is different every time?
kakobrekla: you can request 10 commands, take them all at once to airgap
mircea_popescu: yeah the old way had the advantage of automation, but this has the more significant advantage of airgap
kakobrekla: i could do /otps/$nick and list active ones
mircea_popescu: can't hurt. leave all these for a 2nd version down the road.
PeterL: having the same for voice would make it so our scripts from gribble would be easily convirtable
☟︎ mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo / cazalla pls to write-up this truly momentuous development.
cazalla: i have birthday guests in the next 30m so if BingoBoingo can otherwise i'll catch up on logs this evening and write up whatever it is that needs doing
cazalla: mircea_popescu, not mine, my son's first birthday :)
cazalla: not really, these 20 odd people are going to mess up my clean home :\
danielpbarron: if i'm session authed with gribble and someone hacks my irc, they can change my key
cazalla: anyway.. shower time and then to play host and patriarch, bbl
danielpbarron: i figured that was why you always logged out when not chatting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00043393 = 12.8877 BTC [+] {2}
PeterL: does assbot log ratings changes anywhere?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70150 @ 0.00041356 = 29.0112 BTC [-] {6}
kakobrekla: whats next, a nuclear sub delivered 2 days before your order while paying you 500$?
assbot: You rated user assbot on 12-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Nice ass & face bot..
mircea_popescu: !rate assbot 10 Nuclear sub delivered 2 days before order while paying me $500
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.assbot.10:e33f37ce0c6349c2ff073951a8cd8907102c1ccbe4996cad4061ed1e6fc1d310
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for assbot from 1 to 10 with note: Nuclear sub delivered 2 days before order while paying me $500
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo / cazalla pls to write-up this truly momentuous development. << lemme catch up on what the news is and I'll hammer something out.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2015 00:48:07; mircea_popescu: [source] =>
kakobrekla: others will be assbot sourced automatically from now on.
kakobrekla: btw this line kept going through my head while coding
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 04:03:56; asciilifeform: trust is simply an obsolete, pre-scientific word.
kakobrekla: but then i forgot to ask wtf am i to do.
BingoBoingo: Who all collborated on asswot? Did you do it all kakobrekla?
mircea_popescu: so ima send a btc to assbot's 1B6NP9eb4RKy9tRrXYCJnNcenZkrt5Q2gb
mircea_popescu: trust is good. what, fucking is also an obsolete, pre-scientific word. slides right down nevertheless.
BingoBoingo: ^ And on that note I'm headed out for a bit.
kakobrekla: updated the welcome message (took out gribble part) and removed ddos warning , i think its gone again?
artifexd: Snowden worked at the NSA until June 2013. GPG 1.4.13 was committed on 2012-12-20. GPG 1.4.14 was committed on 2013-07-25.d
artifexd: mircea_popescu: 1.4.13 is acceptable and 1.4.14 is not, correct?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37657 @ 0.00043023 = 16.2012 BTC [+]
artifexd: I believe the point is that Snowden didn't say gpg was compromised. However it could have been compromised since he left. Only mircea_popescu knows mircea_popescu's motivation for that spec though.
artifexd: That is what I'm looking at right now.
kakobrekla: its not like changelog will say "hax was inserted here"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41550 @ 0.00042089 = 17.488 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: artifexd it's not a strict thing, more like a general consideration. i doubt they managed to react fast enough to do much to 4.14
mircea_popescu: anyway, the point is that gpg was widely used for the snowden leaks. this indicates that a major player trusted it, and was right in so doing ; and suggests a major target for that reason alone.
kakobrekla: meh snowden leaks could just as well be disinfo
mircea_popescu: i know for a fact the usg did not know what was in the leaks until their press agents told em
undata: asciilifeform: apparently this google device on my desk is impenetrable. who knew
undata: I'll stop worrying when it automatically opts me back into location history tracking
danielpbarron: such a thing is not possible; there needs to be an arbiter to decide if a bet has resolved yes or no
danielpbarron: decentralized bitbet like counterparty is decentralized mpex; just replaces the infrastructure (with something worse)
thestringpuller: or maybe everyone is a puppet of some sort. that's a little beyond me tho
danielpbarron: of course it's disastrous; it's like giving the -otc folk power based on their total rating score (which they build up through trivial deals)
thestringpuller: isn't this classic dilemma of selling soul for some benefit/value
thestringpuller: he sold shares in non existant broker bitcoin selling thing compan
danielpbarron: what with all the hard fork drama, i'd say anything that can be kept centralized should probably remain centralized
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i think the hardfork drama is fundamentally seeing split, or cold war in bitcoin
thestringpuller: ofc, but USG coin that is used to also do what? annoy us out of our money like some comcast nonsenese?
danielpbarron: "I am slowely being impaled on a sharped stake. Ask me anything."
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I do not see how anyone will contribute to usgavincoin when Buterin's waterfall explodes right after inception.
thestringpuller: Spend X money to build hoover dam and it explodes less than a year while runnign?
thestringpuller: But isn't this like someone trying to power a water wheel by simply running up stream with buckets of water they collect downstream?
danielpbarron: there are plenty of people who are so focused on "mass adoption" as a priority that they will compromise any and all aspects of bitcoin to further that goal; what would get more mass adoption than endorsement from USG?
thestringpuller: i can only imagine poor peon running up stream trying to keep water wheel moving
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: re: mass adoption << I always felt people wanted mass adoption so price raises.
thestringpuller: starving marvin in kenya buys a bitcoin with his 50000 kenyan shillings he saved up over the course of 5 years...
danielpbarron: i don't think they are so rational; i suspect it has more to do with "going viral" like a clever youtube video, and having been in on it before it was trendy
thestringpuller: i never understood when going viral became the equivalent of becoming valuable...
thestringpuller: but in all srsns, i thought the "popularity contest" died out by the end of high school
thestringpuller: 22:13 <+asciilifeform> i have said before that an official usg altcoin is
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (and that there is another one, where it wasn't. but i think we did this one before) << like 5 or 7 times.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: such a thing is not possible; there needs to be an arbiter to decide if a bet has resolved yes or no << easier to "invent" stuff than understand stuff. just like it's easier to write new code than understand coding.
mircea_popescu: "whenever misreporting an event is worth more to your stake than it costs to buy back the lost reputation, you misreport the event. decentralized selective scamming ftw!"
mircea_popescu: "others will not readily understand how our implementation of 3 card monte is an implementation of 3 card monte, giving us an exploitable knowledge asymmetry - which makes this exactly an altcoin, which is why it's sensible to pretend we're like bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: this is how athero was able to launch ziggap << not a very good example. he had amassed trust over time, and likely at a higher cost than what he made out of it. the controlling factor there was "insane guy stopped taking his pills one day."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00041938 = 2.5582 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i couldn't find good example on top of head. but was jist of it received?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: gavincoin's probably it. << no. in typical fashion they're trying to play it "anonymously". ie, not official.
mircea_popescu: it really gets them the worst of both worlds, but hey, it's what committees get. no actual men there to take charge.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: there are plenty of people who are so focused on "mass adoption" as a priority that they will compromise any and all aspects of bitcoin to further that goal; what would get more mass adoption than endorsement from USG? << it could become a new brand of tide.
xiando: I would prefer if they don't endorse that or anything and leave it alone.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47850 @ 0.00041938 = 20.0673 BTC [-]
xiando: I know, but I don't have to like it. :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58803 @ 0.00042896 = 25.2241 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: so there's a small statue in buenos aires with a san martin quote i absolutely love.
mircea_popescu: "De lo que mis granaderos son capaces, solo lo sé yo. Quien los iguale habrá. Quien los exceda - no."
mircea_popescu: "what my grenadiers are capable of, only I know. their equals might be found. their superiors - no."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26924 @ 0.00045486 = 12.2467 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45650 @ 0.00046921 = 21.4194 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: hory shit i had to pay half a tent of a bitcent in tx fees. HODL EVERYTHANG!!! MUST INCREASE BLOXSIZE PLOX!
decimation: I find the 'go' rant amusing. Would asciilifeform similarly object to python? I believe it can run on mips
decimation: I wouldn't call it 'hate' as much as 'utterly uninterested'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00044949 = 10.3832 BTC [-]
decimation: I just can't imagine a future in which I will need to learn 'go' for work or pleasure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50422 @ 0.00047596 = 23.9989 BTC [+]
decimation: is this the paper in question? cryptome.org/2013/09/klepto-crypto.pdf
decimation: ah I see that link only has a few pages of the book
mircea_popescu: "Brothel for Slaking Intellectual Lusts" anyone here actually played planescape : torment ?
decimation: apparently usg has decided to greatly limit (not completely stop) civil forfeiture at the federal level
decimation: outgoing attorney general Holder wants to 'make a legacy'
assbot: Holder limits seized-asset sharing process that split billions with local, state police - The Washington Post ... (
http://bit.ly/1ynDEMM )
decimation: well, it certainly curtails one form of civil forfeiture at the federal level, leaving a vacuum that can be filled at the state level, if the states so desire
mircea_popescu: ah you're right. originally i read it as "we'll just keep more of it".
mircea_popescu: btw decimation assbot now allows wotization, pm it !up
ben_vulpes: what are the semantics for working with asswot?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell manamex you're joining channels and then applying your cloak. FYI.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00047268 = 9.2645 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47100 @ 0.00047621 = 22.4295 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes like in chan ? pm it !up it responds with otp, pm it !v otp
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
kakobrekla: what do you mean it doesnt work ben_vulpes ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71107 @ 0.00047967 = 34.1079 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: PING 185.34.216.71 (185.34.216.71) 56(84) bytes of data.
mircea_popescu: 64 bytes from 185.34.216.71: icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=252 ms
mircea_popescu: 64 bytes from 185.34.216.71: icmp_seq=2 ttl=49 time=248 ms
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform washington post = newspaper in the sense projects = neighbourhoods.
ben_vulpes: "newspaper" in the trad'l sense of "town rag" still exists in various municipalities. "grey lady", not so much.
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.kakobrekla.3:71dbfce4f8bb960b54b95894d306db892a6f30da3fc5776c31b3ef6f2f45b0c4
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to 3 with note: wot steward
mircea_popescu: apparently wikipedia deleted a page discussing the "forward" as a generic name for socialist publications after someone mocked obama for it.
decimation: asciilifeform: lol so apparently reddit is where bums hang out?
decimation: the other amusing point that the article fails to bring up: if the 'poor' must pay to live in a dense shitty city, why not move to the country?
mircea_popescu: the poor flock to the city since the times of rabelais for the same reason : you can eat without working there.
decimation: if living off gov't checks anyway, wouldn't a trailer park somewhere stretch the bezzlars?
decimation: but the basic bitch here reminds me of something like 'heavier things are heavier'
decimation: of course someone with a spare $bil to invest in a sony movie (for example) will make $0.5 bil profit
decimation: having fifty bux means your investment options are limited to your own stomach
mircea_popescu: you know you can buy stocks online these days on about 1k i think ?
decimation: what are you gonna do? buy shares of wal-mart and hope they go up 100x?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31129 @ 0.00047521 = 14.7928 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: decimation why 100x ? you proposed a 1bn - >1.5 bn deal.
decimation: even in that case, it's gonna take awhile before walmart stock goes from $1k to 1.5k
mircea_popescu: En l'an de mon trentiesme age, que toutes mes hontes j'euz beues, ne du tout fol, ne du tout saige non obstant maintes peines eues, lesquelles j'ay toutes receues soubz la main Thibault d'Aucigny ...
mircea_popescu: S'esvesque il est, signant les rues, qu'il soit le mien je le regny.
mircea_popescu: decimation films are some of the most risky investments out there you know.
decimation: yeah I'm using it as a somewhat poor example. my main point is that having $x mil to 'invest' allows one to bend over and pick up stuff that bums have no access to
mircea_popescu: there is no significant advantage to size, and a serious problem to it.
mircea_popescu: buffett oft dwells on the matter : it's easy for krill to find a good meal, on account of being small. not so easy for whale.
decimation: I suppose the principle at work here is that once one has $x, one finds no portion of x to be 'spare'
mircea_popescu: decimation in any case spare works better at smaller size.
mircea_popescu: essentially the principle being that you may find excellent "best actresses/cocksuckers", but not really "2nd best actresses/cocksuckers" in proportion.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the cheapo stock houses make a killing by charging xx usd / trade << iirc it's about a dime/a quarter per lot, which lot is usually 1k shares, which can easily be 100k usd.
mircea_popescu: yes, much more than say the specialst pays (specialist doesn't pay). this is inconsequential.
decimation: well, it would be a big deal if you day trade all day
mircea_popescu: decimation a horrible deal. imagine all the noise you'd be pouring into the market.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there are at least a dozen honest online brokerages.
mircea_popescu: retail is SUPPOSED to be front run for crying out loud.
decimation: asciilifeform: sure, but you are generally talking about pennies per share
decimation: because that's where the trade bots put their earnings
mircea_popescu: to acquire a portion of the productively outlayed capital i nthe country.
ben_vulpes: <decimation> [] outgoing attorney general Holder wants to 'make a legacy' << just look for the "apparent pedophilia rate" as evidenced by "he had kiddie pr0nz" to go up.
decimation: suddenly everyone will be serious drug runner/terrorist/pedo
decimation: in some states (illinois) you must register all your guns with the state
assbot: Watch Reid Wiseman's Vine "Even a 50kg mass does the same flipping maneuver. “Wild” to me! #science #SpaceVine" ... (
http://bit.ly/1Civp1R )
decimation: it's pretty obvious that the guy is a control freak who gets off on forcing his way
decimation: "So we started writing Systemd, and Red Hat didn’t like it at all. Red Hat management said: no, we’re going for Upstart, don’t work on that. So I said, OK, I’ll work on it in my free time. Eventually Red Hat realised that the problems we solved with Systemd were relevant, and were problems that needed to be solved, and that you couldn’t ignore them."
undata: decimation: I wasn't aware of that particular detail
undata: tragic; upstart is a much simpler alternative
decimation: "So anyway, long story short, we came to the conclusion that Upstart is conceptually wrong, and it moved at glacial speeds. It also had the problem that Canonical tried very hard to stay in control of it. They made sure, with copyright assignment, that they made it really hard to contribute, but that’s what Linux actually lives off. You get these drive-by patches, as I would call them, where people see that something is broken, or
decimation: something could be improved. They do a Git checkout, do one change, send you it and forget about it."
decimation: he tries to make a halfass technical argument against Upstart, and then whines that it's hard to make commits
decimation: later on he describes people who like systemd as "progressive" and those who reject it as 'conservative'
undata: well that lays bare the abstractions rolling around in that gourd, doesn't it
mircea_popescu: "Few pieces of software in history have been so fiercely debated as Systemd. "
mircea_popescu: ". It’s growing all the time and now handles logging, device hotplugging events, networking, scheduled actions (like Cron) and much more. Almost every major Linux distribution has adopted Systemd, but there are still some unhappy campers out there,"
mircea_popescu: the lulz is so thick, considering the playbook is identically replayed with the gavincoin
mircea_popescu: course, the prospect is a lot grim-er for linux, but hey.
mircea_popescu: "in the most superficial level, some used -h for help, and others ––help. It’s not uniform." << i can't name a tool that doesn't actually honor both.
mircea_popescu: but a fuckwit 20something discussing how "people have not played with unix at all" is, indeed, amusing.
mircea_popescu: LP: Yeah, and this is great – these are the people you want to have, because the vast majority of patches are actually of that kind. "
mircea_popescu: "because they have no political power - and that's what you want, a lot of lemmings"
mircea_popescu: anyway. there's nothing wrong with the people who didn't belong in foss in the first place finding their own way out, just like there's nothing wrong with the people who have no business in bitcoin finding their own way out.
mircea_popescu: kinda why "adoption" is meaningless. i don't care for anyone to "adopt" anything i do. i might care if they change to fit to it. but otherwise, good fucking luck, there's no value in having a bunch of pacific islanders speak english as if it were the retarded language they spoke before.
mircea_popescu: giving inept infantrymen good horses doesn't create an elite cavalry regiment, it just creates a lot of injured horses. giving stupid people smart things doesn't make them smart. it'll just make a lot of broken smart things.
mircea_popescu: in any case, the entire lennart gambit is that "actually smart people won't be able to find each other in our sea of lemmings"
mircea_popescu: kinda why stuff like the wot-foss i was discussing and even gossipd are so important
decimation: well, apparently he confirmed that redhat was itself a ship of lemmings, looking for a lemming-king, and lennart was their man
mircea_popescu: but also why a certain attitude to ineptitude, from the "affirmative action", "wopmen in tech" "don't say nigger" all the way to stupidities like the equalitarism in freenode's policies is so very important. and why linus' "fuck you" is such a major thing.
mircea_popescu: it's not gratuitous, all this. it provides a very valuable signal, both to the inferior and to the superior.
mircea_popescu: every time you see someone being stupid, piss on his face. this is important for them, and it's important for me.
mircea_popescu: tolerance is not the answer to any question worth asking, and it does not serve any purpose other than the general drowning in shit. which is not a desirable outcome in any case.
mircea_popescu: better off if half the "community" gets upset and moves on to collecting bugs or digging trenches or whatever, than if programming becomes a sort of passtime for trench diggers and worm afficionados.
assbot: APRECIERE FRANC ELVEȚIAN: Război cu stenograme Ana Birchall - Andreea Paul | DC News | De ce se intampla ... (
http://bit.ly/1IT3Xu0 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00047521 = 7.9598 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: (romania, unlike the us, actually keeps track of unserviced retail debentures)
ben_vulpes: does anyone know when the transaction index was added?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29000 @ 0.00047473 = 13.7672 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14586 @ 0.00047934 = 6.9917 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22014 @ 0.00048133 = 10.596 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3084 @ 0.00066737 = 2.0582 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48186 @ 0.00048133 = 23.1934 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19794 @ 0.00048133 = 9.5274 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67250 @ 0.00048747 = 32.7824 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83100 @ 0.00048144 = 40.0077 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65200 @ 0.00048075 = 31.3449 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55503 @ 0.00049 = 27.1965 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.125 = 1.25 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22350 @ 0.00048826 = 10.9126 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00049 = 6.223 BTC [+]
mats: greek bank run, excluded from QE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36400 @ 0.00049025 = 17.8451 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 15-01-2015 21:14:09; kakobrekla: ^^ re chf, a few folks committed suicide today cause of it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31676 @ 0.00049095 = 15.5513 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16198 @ 0.00048816 = 7.9072 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33465 @ 0.00048797 = 16.3299 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7071 @ 0.00049327 = 3.4879 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29879 @ 0.00049538 = 14.8015 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66400 @ 0.00048603 = 32.2724 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: there's a deep hypocrisy here somewhere. apparently the usg entities who are involved with foreign surveillance couldn't possibly do their jobs if they were subject to 'regulation', but of course regular people trying to say, transact bitcoin, have no such reprieve
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.0004847 = 4.6531 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48550 @ 0.00049745 = 24.1512 BTC [+] {2}
davout: so, re yesterday's convo about go and c it occurs to me that b-a will eventually have to have a reviewed & signed code repo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14293 @ 0.00048366 = 6.913 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this occurs to you through having read the logs re the new github model / how the bitcoin foundation works or independently ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22019 @ 0.00047979 = 10.5645 BTC [-] {2}
davout: well, you can't really build a good house without good bricks
mircea_popescu: read the log thread in question tho, it's instructive. about how the point is to have code signed for having been read.
davout: you don't refer to yesterday's convo do you?
davout: meant yesterday's log as it seems it has come up quite a few times already :D
assbot: Logged on 10-09-2014 11:54:21; mircea_popescu: other than proper cryptography for all foss, as discussed coupla days re gentoo overlays etc, i would fucking love for all lines of code to come with a counter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25821 @ 0.00047875 = 12.3618 BTC [-]
davout: it appears that if we want to make a proper apple pie from scratch we'll have to invent the universe first
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20000 @ 0.00005363 = 1.0726 BTC [+] {12}
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2015 01:06:05; PeterL: having the same for voice would make it so our scripts from gribble would be easily convirtable
davout: i have nfi what kind of workload it would represent to make some linux fork that's entirely reviewed, assume it'd be pretty massive
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla : can assbot match 32 char strings as keyids instead of names ?
mircea_popescu: so stuff like <mircea_popescu> !gettrust mircea_popescu 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452
mircea_popescu: <assbot> 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 is not registered in WoT.
PeterL: new voicing model, we still have to join #b-a before verifying otp
mircea_popescu: davout depends how much crap you're wiling to hoist overboard.
PeterL: kakobrekla: are you pointing out my horrible spelling? :)
mircea_popescu: the workload pain will probably be far exceeded by the cries of horror of the large hordes of nobodies that can no longer "innovate", in the sense their gunk is no longer included in repos
kakobrekla: <PeterL> new voicing model, we still have to join #b-a before verifying otp < yes, no session, recall?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla 2.1. Bot extracts the signature keyid through a process homologuous to gpg -v -v
mircea_popescu: 2.2. Bot makes a request to assbot via pm, of the format ;;gpg info --key <key currently
mircea_popescu: that way, it wouldn't have to do two steps, just directly gettrust to a keyid.
PeterL: well, for gribble I have script that runs curl and gpg and pastes the result
PeterL: for assbot, now I have to use the mouse to highlight the new link, and type the commands
PeterL: too early, can't read yet
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> how does it simplify ? << dja see what i mean ?
mircea_popescu: i want !gettrust to match any 32 char string as a key rather than a name
mircea_popescu: so that !gettrust mircea_popescu 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 responds with "trust from mircea_popescu to mircea_popescu : so an so"
PeterL: !rate kakobrekla 3 Runs AssWoT, other cool stuff
PeterL: !v assbot:PeterL.rate.kakobrekla.3:ad06b594522d33faffcdf84b870db76a3fbd1fcda55e860ddec83a58b3864168
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 2 to 3 with note: Runs AssWoT, other cool stuff
PeterL: is scoopbot still running? -hi
decimation: or to be more precise, he failed to make remarks when asked the question
decimation: other than vague "we work with companies who also have families", which is exactly the same argument one gets from the local mobster I presume
mircea_popescu: decimation have you seen the "toasting the queen" thing ?
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu perhaps is even easier if i just allow for w.b-a.link/trust/key1/key2/json ?
mircea_popescu: decimation he goes to toast the queen. the athem's going on so queen ignores him.
mircea_popescu: lotta hay made out of how "the queen snubbed obama'. but the guy's just not very aware. which looked to me like a very very tired man that's being constantly pestered with advice and requirements by about 9 spinster women.
kakobrekla: assbot is 7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60869 @ 0.00048599 = 29.5817 BTC [+] {4}
decimation: yeah, actually from his rambling answer in the linked youtube (starting 45:30), there's very little evidence obama is even aware about the 'backdoor encryption' issue at all
mircea_popescu: and it's not how you ask the president that question, either.
decimation: well, certainly it ought to be something he answers in writing, in detail
decimation: the trouble is there's no method to compel an answer
mircea_popescu: this is roughly the equivalent of a company with 10k cab fleet having famously a weak alternator, and some reporter asking the CEO "what about the spinny trick ?"
mircea_popescu: that's not what you say. you say, "as you may be aware, because this so and so weakness in this part of the engine that does that and this, some drivers are so and so.". guy needs an intro.
mircea_popescu: no, there shouldn't be a way to compel an answer. wtf ?!
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla can there be a /n after each otp before encryption pls.
mircea_popescu: currently it bleeds into teh bash. dun wanna put an "echo "/n"" in there .
decimation: well, there's an issue of policy here, which is "is a us person allowed to communicate in a manner outside the possibility of usg interception?"
decimation: because the implication of both cameron's and obama's answer is "no"
mircea_popescu: because that's why we go to school : so we can present our inquiries in such a way that OTHER PEOPLE can fucking grok wtf we want to know
decimation: and that appears to completely contradict constitutional and court precedent
mircea_popescu: decimation i bet you the guy does not even currently ~KNOW~ that that's what's being discussed.
decimation: cameron clearly does, but obama gave no evidence of it
mircea_popescu: because fucking aspie autistic idiot kids + total incompetent "women in journalism" ask dronign, meaningless questions
decimation: note that there are people who could ask such questions
assbot: Women's College Cancels 'Vagina Monologues' Because It Excludes Women Without Vaginas - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... (
http://bit.ly/1KSjjTd )
decimation: but the press corps is carefully selected to exclude them
mircea_popescu: camweon's a total heel. i have nfi whatabout england produces such contemptible sacks of shit. i thought blair was an exception, but apparently he was just a harbringer.
mircea_popescu: PeterL obviously, the idiocy's own internal logic is its downfall. kinda the problem with all insanity.
decimation: because the civil service would exclude access to that journalist's organization
chetty: !v assbot:chetty.up:ef543cc75b665e6c256ba24daf682446e46a10a97d497ef0f6258a61671a362
assbot: Invalid verfication string.
PeterL: somebody is trying to hack into chetty's account?
chetty: what my key has been hax
mircea_popescu: it's the missing /n at en of otp giving all sorts of people hell
mircea_popescu: because gotta recover the end of the key from their bash string
decimation: cameron said "as technology develops, as the world moves on, we should try to avoid safehavens that can otherwise be created for terrorists to talk to each other"
assbot: Invalid verfication string.
decimation: perhaps that quote should be gossipd's motto
mircea_popescu: decimation: there's a deep hypocrisy here somewhere. apparently the usg entities who are involved with foreign surveillance couldn't possibly do their jobs if they were subject to 'regulation', but of course regular people trying to say, transact bitcoin, have no such reprieve << well, usg entities that deal in bitcoin do have such reprieve currently ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55000 @ 0.00047492 = 26.1206 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: some elements of usg would claim otherwise
mircea_popescu: heck, the us scammer office (previously marshall's office) doesn't have to answer foia if it doesn't feel like it, and can even lie in public statements.
decimation: in theory, usg has no legal immunity (from criminal courts), but in practice it clearly does
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu check new line if fixed?
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
assbot: You can not rate yourself.
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.kakobrekla.1.7:b40b7beddd0f6b2f45874cb24cdb3dcd9c051c5c9727a4b306b1f115729982a0
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 5 to 1.7 with note: hurr
PeterL: !rate decimation 0.1 marginal
PeterL: !v assbot:PeterL.rate.decimation.0.1:17d02404cae9e530dcd5e82a06dad23963c9560e9b0530d785bd01da78a11710
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 0.1 for decimation with note: marginal
PeterL: so, if somebody has < 1 L2 rating, they don't get voice? or it just has to be > 0?
kakobrekla: no, it did not work, comment is unchanged
mircea_popescu: !rate kakobrekla 5 too much stuff to list. inquire within..
assbot: You rated user decimation on 17-Jan-2015, with a rating of 0, and supplied these additional notes: marginal.
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.kakobrekla.5:4854d908f615d0a4735169e307d17352740d17b15f4608f0200d018f6683baad
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 2 to 5 with note: too much stuff to list. inquire within..
PeterL: so it lets you input a fraction, but converts to int?
kakobrekla: why are you asking me, do you think i know ?
davout: b-a is so mean, kakobrekla makes something nice, everyone tries to break it
PeterL: the more we disclose now leaves less suprises later
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 144 @ 0.00734105 = 1.0571 BTC [-]
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
fluffypony: "The alert key will be raised by Gavin"
fluffypony: don't worry guize, Gavin will save err'one
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.00069999 = 1.4 BTC [-]
PeterL: hi Panadol______ , what brings you here today?
mircea_popescu: we stand against dns and against govt-sponsored pki schemes. their combination is not likely to resolve that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00048985 = 10.2869 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: i awoke to sewage leaking around the bathtub plug actuator
mircea_popescu: "I've lived in filth, I've lived in sin, but I still smell cleaner than the shit you're in"
gabriel_laddel: Any #-assets members who will admit to being a fan of supreme commander or total annihilation?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00049959 = 12.8395 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: supreme annihilation's a pretty fun game
mircea_popescu: actually the supreme commander thing looks pretty slick.
gabriel_laddel: they're in the same vein of games such as diablo I&II, baulders gate, path of exile etc. Not in terms of gameplay, but overall attention to detail and cohesive structure.
mircea_popescu: they look more like tower defense / dune2 sort of thing to me /
undata: ben_vulpes: we have a buddy with an extensible IRC bot; how's that raw tx backport coming?
undata: er archaeology and re-implementation
undata: actually, it appears it would only have to be aware that a tx has occurred, not send any
ben_vulpes: undata: if you're interested in implementing, talk to MP for the spec
ben_vulpes: i don't really know how the transmission of btc is supposed to work for the thing
undata: it'd be neat if the thing paid its own bills out of its fees on some btc vps
ben_vulpes: probably want to decouple bot from funding actions
ben_vulpes: tx backport archaeology's an interesting thing
ben_vulpes: i'm starting to see some of the rationale behind the wallet paradigm - creating transactions for signing requires being able to retrieve arbitrary transactions from the blockchain
ben_vulpes: far easier for the people working on it at the time to make some silly assumptions about what txns a user would want to sign, and then keep those txns on hand
ben_vulpes: creating a raw transaction requires having the previous transaction in hand in full at runtime, so as to extract the pubkey from the previous transaction
ben_vulpes: while this isn't *strictly* necessary, it's how things work now.
ben_vulpes: i don't know that a bitcoind would be able to verify a transaction without access to the full inputs
danielpbarron: i thought all you need to know is the tx id of the outputs you want to use, the private keys of the coresponding addresses, a destination, and an amount
ben_vulpes: to verify that you've created a valid transaction, you have to have the entirety of the previous output on hand to examine the public key
ben_vulpes: otherwise you just sign hash of txn, index in txn, and have no way to double check that you produced a valid signature corresponding to the pubkey to which those funds were transmitted originally.
ben_vulpes: (one can sign anything at any time - that's not the problem. the problems crop up in a) knowing the sigs are valid and b) the multi-input, multi-privkey transaction generation use-case: how am i to know which privkeys are to be used to sign which inputs, and furthermore [and somewhat recursively] how do i know those signatures to be valid?)
danielpbarron: the one that goes with the pubkey of the output right/
ben_vulpes: how do i get the pubkey for a given output?
ben_vulpes: say i have the transaction hash (aka txid) and output index - how do i get the pubkey those coins were sent to?
danielpbarron: this is for deedbot right? don't you already know what the last pubkey was?
danielpbarron: oh well yeah you need to know the whole blockchain to verify a tx in that case
danielpbarron: i tried to make a raw tx once, got rejected by my own node for having too small a fee
ben_vulpes: "whole blockchain" << and more specifically, a trivial lookup of txids
ben_vulpes: brain now contains c++, not sure if improvement
ben_vulpes: <danielpbarron> i tried to make a raw tx once, got rejected by my own node for having too small a fee << heinous
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52300 @ 0.00050221 = 26.2656 BTC [+] {3}
davout: danielpbarron: iirc with the raw tx thing you can send zero fees without problem, there's however a safeguard against sending a massive fee
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.125 = 1.125 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> danielpbarron: make sense? << yes, that's what that is.
undata: davout: it's ruby; let them have it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55900 @ 0.00048731 = 27.2406 BTC [-] {2}
davout: undata: i like ruby :)
ben_vulpes: nevermind that them/their is actually incorrect grammar if not used in reference to more than one person
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45900 @ 0.00048471 = 22.2482 BTC [-] {2}
davout: ben_vulpes: wasn't sure about that, I assumed a weakness in my own english since no one brought that up, but it did sound slightly weird, thanks for clearing it up!
Apocalyptic: looks like a valid "singular they" to me, "valid" in the grammatical sense
ben_vulpes: it's only ever pushed by "anti sexists"
ben_vulpes: a plural cannot by definition be a singular thing.
ben_vulpes: if you don't know the gender, say "his or her"
punkman: ben_vulpes, I think "their/they" was being used long before the queers adopted it
ben_vulpes: "pushed by" not "initiated by". furthermore, doesn't make the usage somehow acceptable.
ben_vulpes: not that anyone should expect a "developer" to understand how to write english well - it's hard and takes a lot of dedicated study.
ben_vulpes: as someone somewhere once said "i don't hire developers who spell well, i hire developers who mispell consistently."
davout: kakobrekla: would it be hard to make links such as w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/291237F37A2C023CADBED52513288EAB01713428/json work with keyids as well as fingerprints?
davout: yea, i was reading gpg's rfc yesterday and found out that they aren't supposed to be relied upon for unicity
kakobrekla has nfi why nano keeps keyid field in his db
davout: thing is, i was also reading mp's deedbot spec, the part i was wondering about was the "extract keyid from signed message, and use it in w.b-a.link URL"
davout: kakobrekla: "nfi why nano keeps keyid field in his db" <<< if you keep the fingerprint you're automatically keeping the key id as far as i understand since the key id is simply the second half of the fpr
davout: "replace keyid with fp ?" <<< sure, but how do i get the fpr from a signed message? gpg -v -v will just return the key id
davout: that would work when listing keys, i can't seem to get it work when piping a clearsigned msg to "gpg -v -v --fingerprint"
undata: ben_vulpes: them being the feminists you pedant
kakobrekla: davout idk worst case some awk and pipes ?
undata: ben_vulpes: hah oh the commit
davout: punkman: doth not work
undata: as for english as I delve into a few other languages on duolingo I find my native tongue ever more horrifying
undata: a shantytown cobbled together with the leftovers of other cultures
davout: if i don't have the key in my own keyring it doesn't seem possible to extract the fingerprint from a signed message
undata: however thouse german articles are going to do me in
kakobrekla: davout you can search keyserver perhps, but starting the search wherever with keyid instead of fp is not best idea
Apocalyptic: davout, yeah but anyway you would have the key in your keyring since you have to validate the sig
davout: it's always possible to query gribble to get the mapping, but that seems... suboptimal
punkman: davout, there is some combination of options that will do it for sure, you can look in python-gnupg
undata: davout: you're not going to write it in ruby are you?
davout: Apocalyptic: "you have to validate the sig" <<< no i don't think so
undata: I've got a friend with a decent golang bot on github
Apocalyptic: davout, wait, so you're going to publish the deed without checking the signature is legit ?
davout: Apocalyptic: yeah, i think mp mentioned somewhere that verifying the sig is not necessary
undata considers the silence an affirmative...
punkman: pretty sure it has to be verified
davout: kakobrekla: i agree, it's bad if you rely on keyids to actually identify the key, but if you output the actual full fingerprints in the returned json one can make an educated choice
davout: punkman: mebbe i'm wrong here, lemme try and find a reference
Apocalyptic: sounds to me like a dubious choice but heh, if mp sez so
Apocalyptic: I can see a quite unpleasant spam attack otherwise
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 00:59:50; mircea_popescu: this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya
kakobrekla: you mean you input keyid and i output fp
kakobrekla: you still need to check i didnt give you garbage no
davout: yeah, i put fpr or keyid in url, you spit out the fpr, actually no that's dumb
undata: you'd write the deed bit as a plugin
punkman: (some updates and docs coming in next couple days)
kakobrekla: decoupled bot means that the connection process is seperate from all others
davout: what *is* specified is that the bot must verify that the signer has L1/L2 assbot trust, looks like this can't be verified correctly without either relying on a keyid as an actual key unique identifier OR keeping a synchronized keyring and actually verifying the signature
undata: kakobrekla: yes, that's what I meant
undata: the networking core is one thing, and plugins communicate with that over redis
undata: plugins can be started and stopped independently of the core
punkman: kakobrekla: can haz asswot dump?
kakobrekla: punkman ill set up a daily dump to files.b-a
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00049101 = 12.2753 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: davout, so you're taking the deedbot project ?
undata: to summarize what's desired, the bot accepts signed documents from wot members in good standing only, publishes them by burning a small amount of btc and uploading to a site?
davout: Apocalyptic: i've started poking at it yep
davout: undata: it doesn't burn the bitcoins
davout: other than that your understanding seems correct to me
undata: the hash is the privkey
undata: seems like the parties wishing to publish should provide coin to the deedbot operator
davout: not really sure why it has to be restricted to asseteers but w/e
undata: davout: the deeds are presumably for business arrangements
undata: the wot is an excellent tool for making good decisions about establishing those
davout: oh, and it's ppl who have L1/L2 trust from assbot, a subset from the wot members sez the spec
davout: undata: "the wot is an excellent tool for making good decisions about establishing those" <<< sure, but i'm not sure why the notarization *tool* would enforce that, i defo don't feel strongly enough about it to argue the point either way
undata: davout: not my rationale; speculating on what it might be
Apocalyptic: davout, re "looks like this can't be verified correctly without either relying on a keyid as an actual key unique identifier OR keeping a synchronized keyring and actually verifying the signature" I suspect there actually is, playing with the source atm
Apocalyptic: grep "get_short_fingerprint" in verify.c and see the related call get_fingerprint_hexstring() which supposedly could get the full fp
davout: Apocalyptic: looking at the rfc to see the clearsigned message structure
davout: Apocalyptic: RFC 5.2.2 sez a signature packet contains "Eight-octet Key ID of signer"
davout: so basically the options are
davout: - alter spec and add a gribble dependency
Apocalyptic: I wonder what the behaviour is if you have two pubkeys in your keyring with the same eight bytes key id and you're trying to verify a message
davout: - maintain a full asswot keyring on deedbot's server
davout: - not give a fuck about who signed a to-be-notarized blob
davout: - allow unsigned blobs to be notarized
davout: - the last option is kakobrekla getting some moar work
Apocalyptic: punkman, thanks for the link, but I mean that there should be something in the clearsigned message structures that clearly identifies the key that produced it
punkman: I think there is, but not 100% sure
Apocalyptic: well according to what davout said there is just the 8 bytes
Apocalyptic: which is clearly not a canonical identification
Apocalyptic: I confess that surprises me, had imagined the full fp would be somewhere
davout: looked at version 3 signature packets, mebbe version 4 includes them
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 175 @ 0.00651001 = 1.1393 BTC [+]
davout: the version 4 signature subpacket spec isn't that clear to me, maybe asciilifeform has some insight
davout: kakobrekla: is there a way to easily get an array of asswotted fingerprints?
davout: punkman: well, you're requesting a public key, so of course it works :-)
undata: the dump seems like the most straightforward thing to me
undata: signed by kakobrekla of course
davout: kakobrekla: if a 24h delay between asswot registration and ability to notarize is acceptable that would work
davout: it still boils down to a fpr <-> keyid mapping tho, not that this is evil _for this particular purpose_ but still
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26850 @ 0.00049379 = 13.2583 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: the problem with signing that dump is automation and keeping the key on boxen
davout: kakobrekla: tbh if verifying the signature on notarized data is not considered necessary i don't think it's a big issue if the dump is unsigned
punkman: davout: you are right, doesn't work with clearsigned message
undata: why is it not necessary to verify signatures before notarizing?
punkman: so I guess v4 sigs don't have fingerprints either
davout: but if you'd be ok with having some API call simply return the array of fingerprints in realtime, that'd be the easiest deedbot-wise :D
undata: davout: isn't the whole point of a notary verifying the identities of the parties involved then verifying that an agreement has taken place?
undata: or have I missed something
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 00:59:50; mircea_popescu: this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya
davout: undata: the notary doesn't enforce the agreement so why bother verifying the signature at all
undata: well he's saying ask gribble
davout: for all i care the bot could hang out in -assets, and notarize whatever is asked from whoever has voice, sounds like the simplest straight-to-the-point approach to me
davout: well, let's light some jasmine candles and talk about our feelings then
undata: so you're going to rely on the IRC protocol and not gpg?
undata: the fuck is the point of even having gpg involved then?
undata: and how does one move the process to another protocol later
davout: because the notary doesn't enforce or verify anything, just certifies that something existed at some point of time
undata: surely one can do better than stamping any turd that comes along
undata: I'm hacking on it as well
davout: the thing is that, whatever turd comes along is necessarily given by someone who has voice in assets, so by very definition, not a turd
undata: davout: because no one ever once was opped in a chan that shouldn't have been
davout: meh, it's not like that person could steal stuff or anything
undata: says the bridge builder to the parties on either side "eh, fuck it, whatever"
davout: i mean, even in that case, what's the worst that could happen? specifically?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3596 @ 0.00068279 = 2.4553 BTC [-] {12}
undata: davout: a notary is not just a person with a clock and eyes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3933 @ 0.0006596 = 2.5942 BTC [-] {21}
undata: part of the service is actually having an idea of what has transpired, sort of renting out your good name
undata: ? and ? did *whatever*
undata: ^not a valuable service
undata: or I'll go sit on a park bench and call myself a notary
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1925 @ 0.00063202 = 1.2166 BTC [-] {2}
davout: look, there is a reason it's called deedbot, and not notarybot, it's none of deedbot's business to know what happened, for all you know the notarized stuff could perfectly be encrypted
davout: what then? you refuse to process it?
undata: two parties presented themselves to me and both said "I agree to whatevers in this blob"
undata: I have witnessed that fact and I sign and note the time
davout: that's not what tell you, they tell you 'this blob existed at that point of time, what's in it is none of your business'
undata: agreeing it existed is an agreement...
undata: you are being dense; go hack
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27509 @ 0.00049673 = 13.6645 BTC [+]
undata: whether it says inside "A owes B his kidney" or "The sky is blue" both can be held to account that they have made the utterance by the existince of the thing
undata: less so if the witness did not bother to verify identity
davout: the point is to timestamp stuff, not hold anyone accountable to anybody other than by the actual parties to the contract, what's so hard about that?
undata: no, it's to timestamp that an agreement occurred between two identified parties
davout: lol, where does the spec even mention a second party?
undata: davout: why are they published?
undata: ... that's not an answer to my question
undata: why does one publish the signed blobs
undata: what's the point of that? in human terms?
davout: umm... to timestamp them
undata: davout: what is the point of publishing a scientific work in a credible journal?
davout: i think we should've stuck to lighting these jasmine candles :-)
undata: davout: lest you have to think about anything other than rubbing some ruby together
undata: the reputation of the orifice matters and is maintained by not shoveling shit out into the public forum
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8391 @ 0.00049623 = 4.1639 BTC [-]
undata: davout: surely you understand that the wot quantifies what a deed may provide historicity
undata: say you and I make an agreement and you fail to execute your side
undata: doesn't our agreement being public and with firm verification of identity bolster my claim among peers that you're a knucklehead?
davout: asciilifeform: yeah, that's what i was reading, it mentions user ids in the subpackets spec, but i'm unsure whether that includes an actual key fingerprint, i tend to understand that it doesn't
☟︎ davout: (pretty interesting read btw)
davout: "Implementations SHOULD NOT assume that Key IDs are unique", so let's just include that in the signature packet. derp
kakobrekla: fuckin key party and assumption of socialization
davout: and i guess even in the case of a keyid collision that has no impact on actual signature verification
davout: that doesn't make much sense to me, how would a maliciously crafted pubkey even verify the signature?
davout: the signature verification would in this case (assuming both keys are in the keyring) yield both a pass and a fail, right?
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
davout: that would be the number of distinct keyids, not sure how practically feasible it would be to bruteforce a collision
Apocalyptic: 2**64 is well within reach of a supercomputer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35709 @ 0.00050049 = 17.872 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: just take the bitcoin network, it performs 2**64 hashes in 60 seconds at current hashrate if I'm not mistaken
Apocalyptic: and that's just for a preimage, if you want a collision the birthday paradox will tell you that you need much less than that
ben_vulpes: <kakobrekla> [] fuckin key party and assumption of socialization << another kakobrekla line worth reposting
davout: well, if you want to pull off an attack on someone you'll want to get a collision with a specific key id
punkman: davout, see cooper-pair link, has various PoCs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11847 @ 0.00048378 = 5.7313 BTC [-]
davout: "sure you can escrow my key, wanna make sure it's mine? just check the keyid"
undata: asciilifeform: after the next attack they'll ram all kind of laws through around weakining crypto
undata: because terrorists can't find an old copy of gpg?
nanotube: kakobrekla: i have no idea why i keep keyid as a separate column in db either. probably something grandfathered in...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.0004938 = 18.715 BTC [+] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: not far-fetched at all
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9154 @ 0.00048378 = 4.4285 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8507 @ 0.00050465 = 4.2931 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65131 @ 0.00048038 = 31.2876 BTC [-] {2}