log
447 entries in 0.849s
asciilifeform: ( ada params are a moar complicated matter than ffa might suggest: when reading heathen proggies you will encounter such things as 'aliased' i.e. pointerola , and related items. )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there is no 'constructor' in ffa . and FZ_Clear does exactly as printed on the box
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to intern http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mpi/ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch.benvulpes.sig
asciilifeform: in other noose, congrats to ben_vulpes , http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18420 << 2nd ffa ch1 graduate
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to intern http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch.peterl.sig
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18418 << congrats to PeterL, the first (self-proclaimed, but there ain't gonna be any other kind, i dun run a usg-style school, 'diploma' is a matter of yer own conscience) ffa ch1 graduate .
PeterL: asciilifeform: I have succesfully built the FFA chapters 1-3 (on this here mac), and they give the expected respones using the included demo.
PeterL: I tried to press the ffa with the mod6 v, and I am getting this error: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/30JHp/?raw=true
PeterL: so I was trying to follow the ffa series, started at loper-os, followed the link to v, ended up at http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000200.html and I am getting <title>404 Not Found</title> when I tried to download the links in 0x02, did I do something wrong or am I not looking at the most up to date v source or what?
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to update ffa in /patches , ty
asciilifeform: observe that in e.g. ffa , used nonempty placeholders.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a cmachineism -- 'hey this register CAN haz a 0 in it, ergo lengths of 0 are permissible'. observe that i banished this idiocy from ffa planet
a111: Logged on 2017-12-10 21:23 nocko: I was linked to FFA guide, started looking around and am now here. I cannot say that I yet have half an idea what's going on... but hello.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-11 19:56 asciilifeform: incidentally folx: each of you who considers himself 'graduate' of an ffa chapter, consider signing
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-14#1751375 << i'ma proclaim : will host all sigs for 'ffa graduates' ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-11#1749492 ) in my l1+2 . 'hall of fame'!11☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 22:00 diana_coman: mod6, more FFA tests sounds good to me; slightly related: is there any protocol/preferred approach for publishing signatures to someone else's patches?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 22:00 diana_coman: mod6, more FFA tests sounds good to me; slightly related: is there any protocol/preferred approach for publishing signatures to someone else's patches?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 21:54 mod6: (I've been working off an FFA that's like... at least 3-4 months old.)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 22:22 mod6: diana_coman: there is a 'mirror' feature in my V. But there is a limitation, it has a URL to the root mirror baked in. Perhaps next release this will be fixed and can take a root mirror as a parameter. This way, you could set up your own root mirror/mirrors for eucrypt or for stan's ffa.
mod6: diana_coman: there is a 'mirror' feature in my V. But there is a limitation, it has a URL to the root mirror baked in. Perhaps next release this will be fixed and can take a root mirror as a parameter. This way, you could set up your own root mirror/mirrors for eucrypt or for stan's ffa.
diana_coman: mod6, more FFA tests sounds good to me; slightly related: is there any protocol/preferred approach for publishing signatures to someone else's patches?
mod6: (I've been working off an FFA that's like... at least 3-4 months old.)
mod6: I also want to spend a few minutes here soon and adapt my FFA unit tests to the vpatches that stan has released thus far.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-11 21:56 mod6: <+asciilifeform> incidentally folx: each of you who considers himself 'graduate' of an ffa chapter, consider signing << fwiw, I have held back signing on ch1 since I can not still build it out of the box, successfully.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> incidentally folx: each of you who considers himself 'graduate' of an ffa chapter, consider signing << fwiw, I have held back signing on ch1 since I can not still build it out of the box, successfully.
asciilifeform: ffa series is as much a course in vtronics, as in arithmetics.
asciilifeform: incidentally folx: each of you who considers himself 'graduate' of an ffa chapter, consider signing
asciilifeform: in other lulz, ffa series has been very, very, well... loaded? ( 'read' is not the word, i have nfi if anybody other than apeloyee read it )
nocko: I was linked to FFA guide, started looking around and am now here. I cannot say that I yet have half an idea what's going on... but hello.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-09 20:12 TomServo: heh FFA Chapter 2 is #1 on hacker news at the moment
a111: Logged on 2017-12-09 20:12 TomServo: heh FFA Chapter 2 is #1 on hacker news at the moment
TomServo: heh FFA Chapter 2 is #1 on hacker news at the moment
asciilifeform: btw here's a phunphakt for ben_vulpes : ffa cannot be used as-is on ppc. ibm in infinite whizzdom made their mul instruction nonconstanttime.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-09 01:36 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-08#1748872 << http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch2_logicals thanks for letting me know
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-08#1748872 << http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch2_logicals thanks for letting me know☝︎
asciilifeform: and per the comments in ffa ch1, 2017 actually fixed inlining
asciilifeform: ( what was asciilifeform going to do with mpi ? there was plan, for 1 further cut, of the logger and the allocator. but i put it in cold storage when began work on ffa . )
asciilifeform: you are using gcc for a linker, neh. it takes arbitrary paths ( observe how i did it in ffa ch.1, it was deliberately illustrative )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-07#1747976 << interestingly gprclean ( part of gprbuild system , illustrated in ffa ch1 ) actually-worx (unlike, pointedly, gnumake's)☝︎
asciilifeform: same goes for ch1 of ffa, incidentally.
mircea_popescu: inb4 ffa.diff reimpl
mircea_popescu: atm there's bot, lam-par (terrible name), fg, mpi and ffa.
diana_coman: ftr I used mod6's vtron on ch1 of ffa and it worked perfectly fine
a111: Logged on 2017-12-05 23:44 asciilifeform: 'p' stack machine ( to be featured in last episode of ffa series ) is a demo of sane ( e.g. demonstrably-correct and bounded , yet usefully complete operator set ) code execution.
asciilifeform: the thing ffa enables, is to make the 'this-here program takes known number of cycles, and known total bitness of memory' guarantee into an actually feasible thing.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-14#1298929 << first, afaik, public mention. pre-dates ffa.☝︎
asciilifeform: 'p' stack machine ( to be featured in last episode of ffa series ) is a demo of sane ( e.g. demonstrably-correct and bounded , yet usefully complete operator set ) code execution.
asciilifeform: whole of ffa, in fact,
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 18:08 asciilifeform: diana_coman: you do have a point , though, an ffa that is an ideal mathematical description of every relevant bound, would look slightly different from the ffa i actually have, that has to actually run on idjit cmachine iron in something like real time.
asciilifeform: i've been thinking about abolishing function overloading in ffa. ( there is apparently even a pragma for cementing it )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-05 21:18 apeloyee: I'd like to ask asciilifeform to document the parameter ordering convention in ffa. chapter 1 is straightforward, but the various shifts posted earlier seemed to have their parameters in order which I don't understand.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746857 << plz to be very very specific ? link to specific lines, using http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/☝︎
apeloyee: but ffa itself, from what I've seen, does not do that.
apeloyee: I'd like to ask asciilifeform to document the parameter ordering convention in ffa. chapter 1 is straightforward, but the various shifts posted earlier seemed to have their parameters in order which I don't understand.
asciilifeform: now that i think about it, if i were mircea_popescu , ffa would have gone more than simply twice as fast, it takes considerable time to reload the problem into head , after a long dive into the saecular sewers
asciilifeform: ftr i spent more time, hour for hour, on ffa in past yr than among the heathens.
asciilifeform: or for that matter http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746561 aka 'why do you not only take year+ to ffa but why not also do it while living in a tent under a bridge'☝︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not very clear to me how your x=y things work, BUT, if you had told me in 2016 that you intend to delay c-s ada impl by 1-2-n years to wait for ffa i'd have told you symmetric cipher really dun need ffa for any reason and eulora won't wait into 2018 for it etc.
mircea_popescu: yes ; but can you appreciate how ffa is a lot more apt for tmsr-rsa than for a simm cipher ?
mircea_popescu: when you think "hey, ima do the right thing, spend two years making ffa" you make some decisions. they're fine and good, inasmuch as they're yours. but to be decisions, they're the choice of something over something else.
mircea_popescu: but that discussion was re absent submission to cipher contest ; not re your work making the ffa item you came to the conclusion is generally necessary.
asciilifeform: for what did mircea_popescu think ffa is made ?
asciilifeform: in the process of writing one on top of my mpi, i realized that the approach is unsound, and will eventually get people killed. so went straight to what became ffa.
mircea_popescu: what happened to "god damned it, i can't do this c-s i was going to do for the cipher comp because no ffa" ?
asciilifeform: no cs worth considering without sane ffa.
asciilifeform: ffa
asciilifeform: i will stand and say, asciilifeform did exactly the Right Thing, prepared , with proper care wartime ersatz ( mpi ) for if ( as turned out to be the case ) proper item ( ffa ) takes years.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 22:30 asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform will submit ffa.rsa to be judged in mircea_popescu's symm cipher contest, supposing the latter is still running
asciilifeform: the original logic is that i want it to appear on every page of http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ .
mircea_popescu: let me take this opportunity to point out to asciilifeform that his first item in the epic ffa write-up was dec 1st. this is dec 4th. wasn't it supposed to be a 1 hour apart publishing or what's going on there ?
asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform will submit ffa.rsa to be judged in mircea_popescu's symm cipher contest, supposing the latter is still running
asciilifeform finally did dig up the first mention of proto-ffa in l0gz : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-09#1479552☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 18:08 asciilifeform: diana_coman: you do have a point , though, an ffa that is an ideal mathematical description of every relevant bound, would look slightly different from the ffa i actually have, that has to actually run on idjit cmachine iron in something like real time.
asciilifeform: ( btw nobody yet asked why ffa is now a standalone-built static lib, rather than as before , a set of sources to be simply dropped into other projects. answer is -- binary audit )
asciilifeform: ( 'ideal mathematically-sufficient' ffa would probably include solely egyptian multiplier, for example. )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you do have a point , though, an ffa that is an ideal mathematical description of every relevant bound, would look slightly different from the ffa i actually have, that has to actually run on idjit cmachine iron in something like real time.
asciilifeform: the genericunit allowed a given running instance of ffa to know the actual ffawidth desired; and to have stricter checks on arguments
asciilifeform: readers may recall that originally ffa was a 'generic unit'
asciilifeform: TomServo: tried ffa ch1 tutorial yet ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: fortunately ffa is an arithmetron not an academitard-designed hashtron, and doesn't ever need to care about bytes, worx in units of machineword.
diana_coman: "Note that endianness is irrelevant, here and elsewhere in FFA" <- FINALLY! esp given my recent keccak-induced headaches on the topic, I am delighted to read this; will dig deeper into ffa ch1 over the weekend
trinque: mega congrats to asciilifeform on his first ffa post, will read soon.
phf: slightly better rendering (will work on padding widths sometime later) http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/ffademo/ffa_io.adb
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform reading this backbreaker of an article i must say i r impresst. exactly what ffa needed, too.
phf: for future log readers http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb?cocks=true (only works in ada though, because)
phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb
phf: asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb ok i've thrown in reserved words
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/fz_arith.adb << coad loox perfectly ok, phf
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis << neato phf !!
phf: colorizer is missing ada support, so i'm slowly hacking in the highlighter http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/ffademo/ffa_io.adb comments and strings so far. i'm going to add keywords now and then leave it be
phf: asciilifeform: i added your ffa, http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=ffa
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf can haz ffa-genesis and subsequent patches inserted into your spiffy patch viewer btcbase.org/patches ??
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6, diana_coman , trinque , ben_vulpes , et al : lemme know if you were able to follow the ffa tutorial ch1. <+asciilifeform> and got the expected result. << will take a look for sure.
asciilifeform: mod6, diana_coman , trinque , ben_vulpes , et al : lemme know if you were able to follow the ffa tutorial ch1.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, ch.1 of ffa article series just about done.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-14 17:24 asciilifeform: ^ which does mean that i'ma have to a) audit the binary when ffa built for use in the field b) patch gcc/gnat not to emit DIV
asciilifeform: ffa.a stripped is 50kB; 'hello world' without anything whatsoever, null procedure, is 3.5MB
asciilifeform: i'ma have to do it after ffa/p tho. but really this is ridiculous, the built binaries are not auditable until we extirpate the ball of nonsense.
asciilifeform: the approach to making a rts ( gnatruntime ) from 0, depicted in e.g. https://github.com/alkhimey/Ada_Kernel_Module_Toolkit works -- but does not result in a ffa-usable rts , because the boundschecking exceptionhandlers are not present.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 18:36 asciilifeform: in other noose, ffa elf on x86-64 with no inlinings and stripped .a , is ~50kB