mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938022 << emerging sync language from the fact we use bots, rather than not. mindblowing.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938036 << nor do you give a shit, seeing how the lines aren't indexed.

mircea_popescu: loggers as extant suffer from being built manalone style, from scratch, as such the only possible in-page selection is an ad-hoc (but very functional, as it happens) by-line.

mircea_popescu: whereas on trilema you have the whole power of the mp-wp selectylanguage at your disposals, you don't need the line numbers because you can just select w/e actually interests you

mircea_popescu: this whole pile is however a massive lesson in evolution-vs-design thematics & tropes ; that "the function creates the organ" is musky throughout ; the blogger's retrospect ("had i not done x it'd never have occured to me to do y") omnipresent ; and so following.

mircea_popescu: consider both the positive (no convergence language'd ever have emerged out of "oh, phf did excellent job with logger") and the negative (without "we have these loggers, how do we sync them" nobody'd have ever understood why mp-wp is a better display mechanism than "this shit i just brewed").

mircea_popescu: the problem with people isn't a problem with people, but with infinities : realia is somewhat infinite ; idealia is MUCH more infinite than that (whole thing neatly mirrors the cardinality of power sets, actually).

mircea_popescu: for this reason any imanentization (ie, mapping of concepts into reality) will revolve around a "paradigm" / wilful blindness of some kind. "how could i not think of that" is always lulzy -- if you thought of everything your head would explode. and that's a literalism : if you somehow fit all states of its own emptiness into a glass it'd go boom.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938040 << this made entirely 0 the fuck sense, what the fuck, if you miss a line thereby the int'l dateline changes ?!

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938042 << namely.... maybe two ? wtf.

mircea_popescu: and why the fuck flatfile intermediary anywya, what is this, medieval clockwork ?! what's it needed for ?!

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938046 << are you fucking kidding me, how the fuck are old logs not read-only even anyway ?!

mircea_popescu: this has easily been the weirdest wtf... uncleaned coffee mugs invaded by ergot or what the hell's going on here

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938058 << this is an insane problem to solve. if all you're trying to delineate is "mircea popescu", then how about linking to the whole page ; otherwise, it was ~something the man said~, which gives rise to both the need to point to it specifically, and to the method of doing just that.

mircea_popescu: you can't need to point specifically to my name generally.

mircea_popescu: ie, if "selection doesn't work for me" "why not ?" "because what i want to select recurs", give some thought whether indeed "selection is broken and should be fixed". WHY do you want to select something THAT RECURS, and recurs so much it actually doesn't allow you to extend the context slightly, one character at a time, resolving your problem ?

mircea_popescu: maybe what you're trying to select isn't something you should be selecting as part of what you're trying to do because what you;re trying to do is actually broken upstream. ODDS ARE.

mircea_popescu: god put ~exactly no clues~ permitting one to bootstrap out of the ~necessary~ d-k recursion. god put no such clues in ~deliberately~, and god also made it necessary in the first place. because god's an asshole.

mircea_popescu: the only available support for such bootstrap is this kind of indicia, "why are my self-perceived needs conflict with my betters' designs". it could, surely, be the case they're fucked in the head. i'm sure they often are.

mircea_popescu: nevertheless -- not all problems one can persuade himself into perceiving are actually worth solving.

mircea_popescu: there's exactly no need to "stop rape", for instance. "being special" (defined as, "never being raped") is not some kind of "universal right of womanhood". no woman's born entitled to be special, she's born to be used, like any other blade of grass on this here GREEN earth. that specialdom may arise, as a mist, RETROSPECTIVELY, is one thing. but the problem needs no "solving" -- you don't wanna take the cock, don't. see ho

mircea_popescu: w far that gets you and bother whoever cares about it.

mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, surprise sex is inconvenient" "yes, i'm sure it is"

mircea_popescu: "i thought this was uncontroversial" "yes, that's how it usually goes."

mircea_popescu: the persuasive universe is actually very much like a fungal infection of the mind : it grows nicely, i'm sure, but in so doing it misuses a fundamental other thing, that actually has a function independent of ever-growing fungal blather.

mircea_popescu: the dichotomy between the subjective life of the subject and the demands of the outside structure ~is creative~. this is specifically the mechanism through which it is creative : "i wonder why it is i want something that these idiots didn't put in". one possible outcome of a correct such evaluation is, indeed, "jesus fuck they're idiots". however, ANOTHER possible outcome is the ~EXTREMELY~ valuble bootstrap out of d-k rec

mircea_popescu: ursion.

mircea_popescu: it's valuable because it is rare, and because it is, quite pointedly, going against god's own plans with you.

mircea_popescu: if one just goes by the persuasion tradewinds, this lever's permanently stuck to position one ; and ridiculous nonsense flows downstream, superficially visible as "old men in power have been behaving badly" or w/e currently fashionable cri de guerre of the retard camp.

mircea_popescu: this isn't actually the problem though ; as well documented on trilema, the effect on powerful old men an' their behaviour of the tavern wench consensus is still the nil it's ever been.

mircea_popescu: the subjective paralysis is actually the problem. participating in the tavern wench chorus as to how bad your owner is prevents you from fucking thinking, or growing the fuck up (the two being related).

mircea_popescu: and participation ~doesn't take all that much~. that's why it exists, after all, because it's easy, because it is in fact even easier than the very little use them powerful old men behaving badly might put a dumb wench towards.

mircea_popescu: in fact, all it really takes is this conviction that a problem once perceived's thereby an' therefore also a problem that needs solving. NOT SO.

mircea_popescu: it could be, of fucking course, there's no denying that. but there's another step in there, and not to be skipped over.

mircea_popescu: and it can not even be explained JUST HOW!!! creative that thing that's creative actually is. let's look at one example : mp is, as a factual matter, the one who needs most things not put in. mp apparently needs to walk his bitches on a leash downtown, which romania doesn't even have words for, every newspaper in the country must drop whatever it was doing, selling cheap chinesiums, to talk about mp's weird needs now, and

mircea_popescu: how it all relates to the system.

mircea_popescu: erryone's happy with a girl to worship at home, just put her into this one shrineroom and worship there now and again ; mp apparently needs multiple (what! how!) and ~somehow even manages this~, for years, decades, it's not a wish-perceived fantasy, he lives like this ?!

mircea_popescu: yet mp is also the ~least~ angry at "the system". how the fuck could this be ? is mp insane ? if everyone's so fucking pissed off over epsilon, "they gave us 9000 things but we're missing like... three. burn it all down", what the fuck's mp supposed to say, he has to have his fucking food flown in / slave made, and clothes flown in across the world and everything else.

mircea_popescu: yet strangely mp doesn't mind nearly as much as the bottom centile of the "red pill" crowd. how the fuck ?! is it because he's a jew that he doesn't suspect jews are in charge ? what the fuck's going on here ?!

mircea_popescu: ~the dichotomy is creative~. we don't have many (in the sense of : not any) alternative leverage points available. gotta use what's there.

mircea_popescu: in fact, the reason i take the time to explain how various shits work, unpopular as they may be, is because i put the time in to actually understand how they do in fact work ; and i did that not because i was bored, or because i was desperate to find something to pour some of this time into, i have like a well of time at home and it's overflowing so you gotta put some in all availavble receptacles or else it floods the hou

mircea_popescu: se, so i have 500 gallon jugs with time lying about.

mircea_popescu: no, tis outta respect. i will take the time to type something out, an old poem, whatever, for similar reasons : some things are worth it. and they get worth it through occasionally, ever so occasionally, doing you that rare and radiant wonder of a favour, where "it turns out" aka you finally deign to fucking notice you were doing something stupid.

mircea_popescu: o hai diana_coman

mircea_popescu: not this decade

mircea_popescu: will need moar beard for crossing the 500 line threshold.

mircea_popescu: neways, ima go for a walk. bbs.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938061 << this is a long standing problem (not kidding, i been pondering "how to display logs" for a LONG time). generally it seems to me preferable to preserve the original prosody of the author (because yes, this is what this is, "how to break into lines", duh, ancient greek issue)

mircea_popescu: unlike "poetry" ie the socialist shit, where "things look a certain way" with 'verses" (and i'm stuck ha;lf the time dropping it altogether, because it's better absent than fucked), our prosody is actually interesting.

mircea_popescu: which is why generally when rendering log i tend to preserve nametags per line and the original lines (though not always) and instead insert extra line breaks now and again to paragraph it up.

mircea_popescu: alternative schemes may be devised, but it's not a simple "let's just mechasmush everythin together" sorta level of consideration.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938065 << sadly this is a html breakage. the options are delineated in article : either use span and not cross paras, or else use div and end up with an extra newline.

mircea_popescu: until html replacement, this is the limit

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938067 << so the idea is that the flatfile is part of the orig logger ? i misread, i thought it's novel addition.

mircea_popescu: which'd have made no sense.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938075 << right, that one.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938078 << now this is so ; i'm quite happy we found out about it actually.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938080 << there's no good way to "knob" this.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938084 << imo this sounds like a good idea in theory, but is not a good idea in practice. the reason for the difference is that the links as we use them now are ~fixed length~ AND ~fixed format~, something the quotes can never be. they are BETTEr like this than like that because the fix-* is the more important attirbute in thsi context.

mircea_popescu: a car-plane is not more compact than a set of car, plane ; nor is it "more intellectually accessible". it's true the manual

mircea_popescu: s 60% the length ; but this is not the be-all end all of intellectual accessibility.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938089 << it was my fucking spec, wtf.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938091 << this still happens ; it has its functions.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938096 << altogether not clear to me any actual retardation's in fact been identified, which may have something to do with it.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938099 << hey, trilema has a romanian chunk. ~doesn't bother anything~.

mircea_popescu: meanwhile in local lulz : "what was that much better post office here called ?" "you mean prioripost ?" "that's right, apriori post!" "no, no, just prioripost. though... damn..."

mircea_popescu: think abougt it, isn't a priori post something you'd want ? :D

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938106 << well, trilema doesnt have this problem, because, of course, d. Tr.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938119 << even there, you'll have to name the days ~something~, which reduces to naming them the date, meaning that your select will only work if the line is IN tjat date.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938134 << can be "easily fixed" in theory because it was dumped in mechanically ; but won't be easily fixed in practice because fu, i'm not changing trilema articles once published.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938136 << this is quite the idea. i have no expectation trilema log and whoever else's such log be machine-identical.

mircea_popescu: let people people it up, w/e.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938140 << you're approaching this from a very bizarro view where you don't seem to be aware what blogs are.

mircea_popescu: if i make the log say X on my blog, that's my fucking priviledge, it exists on my authority.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938151 << there is such a thing implemented, specifically in the auctionbot spec for #eulora (say your line on the hour but only if there's been chatter since last saying). something very similar can also work here, "a new day starts when there's been silence for x time"). while clocks drift, they don't also diverge, not on the sort of scales here contemplated.

mircea_popescu: i dunno that i'd want this ; but the experimentally inclined may find it interesting to explore

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938159 << you have a certain sort of impulsive dr hyde lying inside, prone to all sorta these out of a specific set.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938169 << quite. i intend it to be pilot plant for standalone, i'm specifically curious how bad "the bad" is gonna turn out to be.

mircea_popescu: o wowz, finally caught up!

mircea_popescu: meh, this half-expressed back and forth spec.

mircea_popescu: trinque, here's the complete story :

mircea_popescu: there's two lobes to qualify for voice in a castle : EITHER 1.(rating above x by the castle owner) OR 2.(sum rating over y by his lordship as he defines it.)

mircea_popescu: 1 must be on for there to be a voice model in the first place. #trilema was traditionally 1 on, 2 on, x = 0, y = 0. with this castle update #trilema is moving to 1 on, 2 off, x = 1, y = undefined.

mircea_popescu: in order for this system to retain its utility throughout the board, i believe the whole array should be offered to castle owners. thus for deedbot to manage voicing in a castle the owner would have to specify the castle name, what x value he wants, whether lobe 2 is on and if so what threshold y to be used.

mircea_popescu: i kept dithering back and forth in here because i stupidly never sat down to draw this all out properly and review history etc. but now i have, and that's the story.

mircea_popescu: the owner doesn't have to specify WHO is his lordship, because the bot just looks at who he rated 9.

mircea_popescu: that'd be the whole story.

mircea_popescu: right.

mircea_popescu: not that i'm against sync-able loggers. but i don't believe all loggers MUST be thusly.

mircea_popescu: or to put it another way : a logger confronts the dilemma if whether to sync with history or with other loggers. i don't believe there's need for a rule, it can stand as such.

mircea_popescu: that it is. and i would be concerned if there was no synced logger, too.

mircea_popescu: consider the complexities involved also. what if there's a serious dispute re log ? what do we all do, we each fall back on whatever private irclogs we kept, eys ? and conceivably even have a party split, x-y-z see Q, k-l-n see P.

mircea_popescu: the situation where there's both unchanging loggers and syncing loggers is in fact more stable wrt that sort of challenge.

mircea_popescu: and, my reasoning goes, since im doing this ANYWAY, might as well have a public, published version.

mircea_popescu: i am pretty sure nobody here ever thought before to ~edit~ their irclogs for ~any reason~.

mircea_popescu: (subsidiarily, i also want to select inside a logline maybe twice aweek, which is hundred of cases by now)

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, font doesn't do what you think (not addressable) ; table is clunkier div. can do either of course, up to you.

mircea_popescu: but the problem's of primitives not wrappers ; nobody on the fucking w3c commission ever had any actual usecases in mind. just shit.

mircea_popescu: there's no "clean span". there's either span-borken-thus or span-borken-that.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938308 << this isn't nearly as universal as all that. going by my own practice, sometimes i paraphrase, sometimes i footnote... but the whole discussion's more a case of "when bird flies, wings move, why not airplane". cuz not everything's a bird, what.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, no, there's no way to do it with any number of tags. the problem is exactly as described : spans that can span any subset of the characters insert a spurious line feed ; spans that do not insert spurious line feed can not span any subset of the characters but only some.

mircea_popescu: yes. "a one cell table" is just a clunkier div. and the problem with div (instead of span) is that it... breaks the line where it starts.

mircea_popescu: the thought manifestly never fucking occured to the muppets, "chief among the jobs of any uniform resource locator is to expose a manner to reference arbitrary subsets of the resource once located ; at the very least ONE CONTINUOUS SUBSET)

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, if you select whole paragraphs and them only, you can get away with div at very minor cost (ie, there may be slight diff between "normal" para and selected on some browsers)

mircea_popescu: the problem here is that select behaviour is social, and implementing a weird select for your blog is likely to cost more in that than in provides in whatever it provides

mircea_popescu: i dun imagine paragraph-select is how people expect to use it.

mircea_popescu: moreover, if that's all you want, you could just add per-para anchors with some tiny tweaking of the mp-wp

mircea_popescu: then no select is even needed, like the bible, #168

mircea_popescu: then no select is even needed, like the bible, #168:35 goes directly there

mircea_popescu: because it can only do whole paras at a time, neh ?

mircea_popescu: what you ~could~ do for your usecase, usefully, would be to add a, say, ?a=alf switch, such that when a=alf, every paragraph gets a chapter anchor and every sentence therein gets a sentence anchor, and then alfblog.org/?a=alf#137:37 takes one directly to paragraph 137 verse 37

mircea_popescu: why not ?

mircea_popescu: yes well ideally what you call "a lang" comes with pre-written formatters

mircea_popescu: and if it doesn't, i daresay the problem's not your slaves.

mircea_popescu: myeah

mircea_popescu: what can i tell you my bruther, we got problems.

mircea_popescu: they chiefly come in large drums of "everyone coming before was a fuckhead"

mircea_popescu: the sadness about this sorta job is that it's eminently not noobworthy.

mircea_popescu: this is retiring whitebeard sorta work.

mircea_popescu: except of course all the old farts are completely moroning hellspawn a la jwz, rms, ers, etcetera

mircea_popescu: as useless as dogvomit

mircea_popescu: anyway, back to it : html was written by people who had not even a cursory familiarity with what resource location might even mean. consequently, there is no actual way to locate subsets within resources, even if continuous. the only available primitives are, either spurious linefeed, or else partial selects.

mircea_popescu: (called "block" and "inline elements" in-universe)

mircea_popescu: chet was even on the committee back in like 2000

mircea_popescu: when you know, people still inexplicably imagined they could help

mircea_popescu: o yes.

mircea_popescu: problem with smart, educated, english-speaking kids is that they'll believe anything.

mircea_popescu: diana_coman, http://www.thimbronion.com/ dun resolve fwiw

mircea_popescu: diana_coman, was linked from his own article, i dunno

mircea_popescu: diana_coman, well, i dunno about redefined. rated 9 here aka l1

mircea_popescu: meanwhile it looks like ima have to review the trackback model also, as it turns out the new select style can spam trackbacks ( http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-131559 and on)

mircea_popescu: aha