log
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asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trilema lotto .
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know i coincidentally had just that tab open ?
asciilifeform: lol
mp_en_viaje: but i'll see your modern africa and trade you historical america
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923138 << yep, it's what's inhibiting my otherwise natural and arguably required "holy shit wtf is this weird, stop now" reaction. ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 16:38 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923088 << the circular situation of gnat , where 'need gnat to build gnat', is the third reason for the mips approach -- arch with 100 fixed-length instructions, simplify the eventual rewriting of backend so can ditch gcc dep.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923146 << sad fact of the matter, ballas has significant advantage over naggum on purely procedural grounds -- had enough fucking sense to make himself blog. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 16:42 asciilifeform: e.g. old man naggum -- evidently moar 'alive' nao than when alive..
mp_en_viaje: much like viktor vs anatoli situation, come to think of it.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-18#1923194 << if mp_en_viaje or anyone else can think of less ugly pill for described problem, i'm all ears, cuz indeed this one's barbaric ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-07-18 04:09 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923138 << yep, it's what's inhibiting my otherwise natural and arguably required "holy shit wtf is this weird, stop now" reaction.
asciilifeform: ftr i want to see x86 and arm die , properly, and cremated, they belong in same place as winblows. srsly wtf, picture 'alphabet' of 700 symbols, that's x86..
asciilifeform: or what even means to audit a binturd in arch where jumping into middle of instruction is permitted.
asciilifeform: or the nightmare of endianized byte-addressing permitted in ~every~ inst that refs mem. ( again x86. )
asciilifeform: at some pt somebody's gonna have to audit a snapshot of bin gnat. which wouldja rather ? ☟︎
asciilifeform to bed
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-8-characteristics-of-family-annihilators-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - 8 Characteristics of Family Annihilators. Adnotated.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-abusive-teens-force-their-girlfriends-to-get-pregnant-dont-let-the-truth-get-in-the-way-of-a-good-story-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Abusive Teens Force Their Girlfriends To Get Pregnant! (Don't Let The Truth Get In The Way Of A Good Story). Adnotated.
feedbot: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/07/unrolled-x86_64-assembly-multiplication-for-updated-to-ch-14-ffa/ << bvt's backtrace -- Unrolled x86_64 Assembly Multiplication for updated to Ch. 14 FFA ☟︎
phf: mp_en_viaje: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZPWlp/?raw=true
girlattorney: hi
mp_en_viaje: ello
mp_en_viaje: phf, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qKDZF/?raw=true
phf: mp_en_viaje: ack, plan works
phf afk
mp_en_viaje: cool.
girlattorney: so, tried with many attempts to restart TRB and hoping it could fully sync. No fucking way. And at every shutdown (with ctrl - c) always a painful writing process of at least 50 gb, taking 30 minutes or so
girlattorney: It's almost like TRB telling me: you're too poor to spend your time trying running me, do something different in your time
asciilifeform: girlattorney: who do you have in your -addnode list ?
girlattorney: every pal listed on thebitcoin.foundation
girlattorney: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html
girlattorney: and even if i was stuck a dozen of blocks behind the general block height, the connection with the other peers was still present, just producing garbage in debug.log
asciilifeform: girlattorney: post the garbage ?
girlattorney: well, mempool rejected transactions etc...
asciilifeform: girlattorney: didja read the log re subj ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 14:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922586 << ftr , is because of >> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922649 .
girlattorney: yes, still don't be able to catch the latest blocks
girlattorney: and the amount of writes that TRB does with or without swap is insane
asciilifeform: by how many behind ? and from where do you know the current height ?
girlattorney: bitnodes + a friend node running core
asciilifeform: re writes, bdb sits the index on disk, so naturally writes
girlattorney: bdb sits the index on disk, that's ok, but i got the impression that to archive 1MB it needs to write like 1GB
asciilifeform: girlattorney: if this were in fact the case, my ssd would live for a week and not 2yrs.
asciilifeform: ditch the virtualhosting thing.
girlattorney: the pc is mine
girlattorney: no virtualhost
asciilifeform: girlattorney: can you describe exact setup ? (i.e. how determined '# writes', how disabled swap)
girlattorney: i determine the writes using iotop
girlattorney: i disabled the swap by not having it
girlattorney: i'm very near to setup my blog to post screenshot and other stuff about the setup
asciilifeform: girlattorney: post plz your last half MB or so of trb log
girlattorney: ok just a moment
girlattorney: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/pUDEt/?raw=true
asciilifeform: that's nowhere near half MB..
girlattorney: just like the one that i posted repeated till half MB
asciilifeform: repeated?!
girlattorney: with same lines over and over
girlattorney: (ERROR: BANNED, etc...)
asciilifeform: this is not 'same' lol
asciilifeform: i wanted to see when was last time you got block, and from where
girlattorney: i think that half MB won't be enough
girlattorney: cause it got stuck for many hours
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lemme know if you want this thread moved to #a
girlattorney: maybe with grep i could scratch something
mp_en_viaje: if she'll follow you why not.
asciilifeform: threatens to be long and uninteresting to erryone else.
girlattorney: this channel it's for what specifically?
mp_en_viaje: the lordship.
girlattorney: i think that the large number of writes could be a problem in the long term
asciilifeform: thread moved to #a .
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/apocatastasis/ << Trilema -- Apocatastasis
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/iran-detains-tanker-for-smuggling-fuel-in-persian-gulf/ << Qntra -- Iran Detains Tanker For Smuggling Fuel In Persian Gulf
girlattorney: another question that i think belong here. Tried to read the logs but haven't found enough clarity. When Bitcoin should scale the blocksize?
girlattorney: and is there a consensus about how much it should be raised?
asciilifeform: girlattorney: see mp_en_viaje's http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/ .
girlattorney: thanks
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, can has link to your original lohatronarticle ?
asciilifeform: 1s
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1446 .
mp_en_viaje: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1446 found ya!
mp_en_viaje: ty!
girlattorney: From the article i read "In any case, a word to the wise : if you are designing ASIC chips, and you are not including the possibility of feeding a bitfield like this in blocks, you are deliberately ensuring failure not just for yourself, but for your customers as well. This change WILL eventually come in, start planning accordingly, today. ["
girlattorney: but i see the article is from 2016
girlattorney: what i'm missing?
mp_en_viaje: what do you mean missing ?
mp_en_viaje: in other lulz, anyone recall the 1918 narkomprod trying to "organise the peasants" into an orange revolution, only to discover that, contrary to marxism-leninism, poor peasants do not actually hate rich peasants ; not to mention have exactly the same interests.
BingoBoingo: girlattorney: You aren't missing much. The protocol isn't changing any time soon for reasons largely explained by handicaps inflicted by Mandarin language's tendency to try insulating against the future.
girlattorney: First of all, do you really expect millionaire businesses such as bitmain or bitfury to support a fork that instantly invalidates many millions of already-in-production ASICs?
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, nobody asked them anything ; not in 2013, not in 2016, not now and not for the foreseeavble future.
mp_en_viaje: they do what they're told.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: older article re subj, with illustration of the business end of the punishment weapon.
girlattorney: Also, what's the problem in the nodes not being rewarded from being just nodes? If I want to run a serious business I'll need a node, otherwise i can stick with a third party wallet such as primedice or deedbot
asciilifeform: girlattorney: problem, as such, is that right now there are maybe two dozen btc nodes (actual, working ones, w/out segshitness etc) and most of'em belong to the folx here.
asciilifeform: and 99,999...% of their cpu cycles spent rejecting rubbish from the 9000 'nodes' running nsaware.
BingoBoingo: At present its too easy for Bezos customers to spin up things that superficially act almost like nodes.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pseudonode
asciilifeform: ( other half of problem is -- miners mining w/out actual working node. but this is elaborated in the logs, will not repeat )
BingoBoingo: "To the network, PseudoNode behaves the same way as a full node by relaying transactions, blocks, addresses, etc. However, unlike a normal full node, PseudoNode does not verify data (txs & blocks) itself. Rather, PseudoNode relies on neighboring peers (with configurable confidence levels) to do the verification on PseudoNode's behalf. As a result, PseudoNode is very lightweight."
girlattorney: but let's say the following: you get a core (prb) node, you set a minrelaytxfee very high, so you don't propagate at all, just include what new blocks have because you have to (to stay up to date)
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/pulpit-lobby-hounds-circle-k-into-retracting-romantic-deal-offered-for-secretary-day/ << Qntra -- Pulpit Lobby Hounds Circle K Into Retracting Romantic Deal Offered For 'Secretary Day'
girlattorney: you use just legacy addresses
girlattorney: you still are on a core node, but even if you aren't completely ignoring segwit shit, you aren't touching it directly
asciilifeform: girlattorney: will still be banned by any working trb node, on acct of sending nonclassical protocol cmds (bloom filter garbage etc)
asciilifeform: and correctly.
BingoBoingo: Also recent NSAware nodes insist on encrypted tunneling to connect to other nodes
BingoBoingo: Nevermind the things nodes pass to other nodes are not the seekrit things
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lol, hearn's old thing , the cocktail where tried to slip heartbleed in
girlattorney: BingoBoingo can you rephrase about tunneling? Do you mean they use ssl to connect?
asciilifeform: girlattorney: are you familiar with the actual purpose of sslism ?
BingoBoingo: girlattorney: It's been a while since I looked into it, but I believe if the version string on a peer is greater than X, they insist on SSL'ing
girlattorney: asciilifeform i know that it's centralized. A couple of CA that runs the game
asciilifeform: girlattorney: that's half the story, yes. other half it that it's ~100MB of unauditable obfuscated-c liquishit.
asciilifeform: !#s heartbleed
a111: 159 results for "heartbleed", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=heartbleed
asciilifeform: ^ see also.
girlattorney: thanks
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-academics-hide-drug-company-payments-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Academics Hide Drug Company Payments. Adnotated.
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje i'm re-reading the messages, what do you mean by saying this? http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922517 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 11:19 mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, your notion of identity is not adequate for the situation you're dealing with.
girlattorney: i was asking about where a TRB node fetch the blocks, if all of the TRB nodes are only interconnected with themselves
asciilifeform: girlattorney: simple logical inference (there's a number of publicly advertised trb nodes; most of'em agree with heathendom re the height) points to : no, not 'only with themselves' dunnit.
BingoBoingo: Playing with the version string on a TRB node is the fastest and simplest way to change the sorts of peers your node encounters in the wild
asciilifeform: answr to given puzzle is very simple -- most of the supposed btc net, consists not of nodes, but of equivalent to sand in engine's crankcase.
asciilifeform: most -- but not all.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fwiw none of the nodes i've operated were ever set to masquerade as prb (other than in the 0.9999... aspect)
asciilifeform: blocks -- still arrive.
girlattorney: but i could argue with this: when i do bootstrap a core node, it actually get fed from other core nodes
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I notice when I drop the version number down enough I'll get a wider number of version strings in my peerslist
asciilifeform: girlattorney: 'core' (aka prb) when bootstrapping, asks randomly selected peer for 'headers' and eats'em on faith. afterwards does same with blocks (none of which it bothers to actually verify, in the traditional sense)
girlattorney: so i can effectively say that i'm receiving blocks from other nodes, they aren't just connecting and stay silent. They are sending me blocks.
asciilifeform: this gives illusion of 'fast sync'
BingoBoingo: <girlattorney> but i could argue with this: when i do bootstrap a core node, it actually get fed from other core nodes << During initial sync trb wants to receive blocks in order while core will intentionally spray blocks out of order
asciilifeform: girlattorney: see also earlier thrd, and past . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:52 asciilifeform: trb, unlike prb, does not accept blocks 'on credit' (i.e. ones for whom the antecedent block is not yet on the disk)
girlattorney: asciilifeform i'm aware of the fast sync part. Just saying that when i sync a node i actually get data from other prb nodes. I'm not getting garbage or errors, and I think (not being technically able unfortunately) that you could modify prb to verify all the blocks, and eventually discard the excess if I reecived them in sprayed order
asciilifeform: girlattorney: 'discard excess' in trb algo is ANYTHING received when its antecedent is absent.
asciilifeform: this includes e.g. a block whose parent was not yet seen; a tx whose antecedent input(s) not yet seen .
asciilifeform: prb had 'orphanage' mechanism where it accepted antecedent-less inputs 'on faith'. this opens node both to memory exhaustion and algorithmic complexity attack (i.e. crafted input can prompt machine into wasting arbitrary amt of memory, + arbitrary amt of cpu cycle walking it)
girlattorney: asciilifeform that's nice to hear, so it has been kept simple for the sake of security, correct?
asciilifeform: i personally removed this nonsense, as 1 of the opening shots of trb story.
asciilifeform: the obvious cost is somewhat slower from-empty-disk sync. cuz, naturally, nao you can only process block in strict order.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: prb will in fact happily eat and relay crafted malformed blocks . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-30 18:16 asciilifeform: more interestingly, there was even 1 of 10/30/18 17:05:41 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED from peer 213.148.193.153
asciilifeform: and nonsensical tx.
asciilifeform: ( not to mention, even when relaying actual bitcoin blocks & tx, blows gigatonnes of bandwidth on nonsense inserted by wreckers as prelude to their bigblockism scheme of '15 , e.g. bloomism )
girlattorney: could be written on trb a feature that enable / disable mempool?
girlattorney: for a saner bootstrap?
asciilifeform: girlattorney: there is not currently such a knob. no one has felt pressing desire for it; if you wanna submit patch -- folx will read.
asciilifeform: the 'reject peers sending garbage' mechanism is also mine. trb did not always have it. i submitted it for inclusion to mod6's flagship after determining that it results in substantially improved performance across the board (i.e. peers sending bloomism are, statistically, an unlikely source of the-next-block) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 19:46 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/malleus_mikehearnificarum
girlattorney: as already told: i appreciate that TRB exist even if i still not able to using it. However reading logs when syncing has been a pain and i thought that mempool during syncing could create just overhead
asciilifeform: it does.
asciilifeform: the other side of the medal, is that a trb node spends only small portion of its life in initial sync.
girlattorney: 28 days...
asciilifeform: ( often -- 0, people tend to stand'em up via eatblock )
girlattorney: if you have no wot, and you are on your own, and you rely on the goodwill of the republican nodes, currently you wait 28 nodes
asciilifeform: girlattorney: my current personal node was synced from-empty in '17, and running 24/7 since. (prior -- dead ssd. prior -- another 2y of continuous operation.)
asciilifeform: so the 6 or so wks the sync takes, in this timeline are not imho significant.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: there is not an escape from 'need wot'. consider, you had to get the proggy from somewhere.
girlattorney: asciilifeform fair point and i hope in similar uptimes.
asciilifeform: this is summary of why asciilifeform did not break back to try to optimize initial sync.
asciilifeform: (it can be improved, potentially, but is very difficult to do without compromising integrity under concerted attack. and 'concerted attack' has been going 24/7 since late '14... )
girlattorney: asciilifeform, about the blocksize once again: is there a real need on increasing over 1MB? since every "consensus" then create political debate with one horseman speaking for many, wouldn't be on the safe side just stay conservative till fees don't skyrocket permanently?
asciilifeform: girlattorney: the supposed 'need' is 100% manufactured psyop, yes.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: mp_en_viaje covered the subj in very pedantic detail.
mp_en_viaje waves
asciilifeform gotta go and do chore; girlattorney : mp_en_viaje can answer most of these q's much better than i, supposing he has time atm .
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: asciilifeform does the mp-wp install on a shared account with pizarro work with multiple authors?
mp_en_viaje: well, i;m writing, but that notwithstanding, the answer's generally gonna be "read some stuff"
girlattorney: thanks
girlattorney: i have enough material to read for a couple of days
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: It appears to work with multiple authors.
girlattorney: asciilifeform will try tomorrow to troubleshoot on the other channel
diana_coman: cool stuff, thank you BingoBoingo ; I'll give this a bit more thought to figure out if blog is best or enough but in principle it seems I'll have to park young new hands somewhere public so they can do their homework and atm I'm considering a shared account on Pizarro - would this be ok with Pizarro or do you see some problem with it/would rather not?
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, you mean in preference of using your chan ?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I don't see where it would cause a problem.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: no, not in preference; but so they write there their "I plan this; I did this; here's what is wrong and what is fine"
diana_coman: basically the non-discussion but reporting thing
diana_coman: since otherwise they go on github "blog" or whatevers, what sense is there
mp_en_viaje: a yes.
mp_en_viaje: sounds like a good idea really.
BingoBoingo: mp-wp has a user management feature. As long as they are interacting with the shared account through mp-wp they shouldn't be setting up irc bouncers to draw aggro by evangelizing Pantsuited tonterias
diana_coman: basically if they aren't yet old enough to have their blog fine, they can share the classroom blog, what
diana_coman: cool, I'll mull it over a few more days and I'll get back to you
mp_en_viaje: im pretty sure you can use mp-wo that way, yes.
BingoBoingo: Seems like a work oriented take on http://trilema.com/2014/the-boy-blog-network/
mp_en_viaje: this even exist[ed] on trilema : http://trilema.com/2009/predosloviie/ was originally published by an imaginary alt-author, Sf. Lefterie Mucenicul
mp_en_viaje: if you remember that
diana_coman: I knew I did it before but on standard wp and I hadn't looked at mp-wp
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/birds-birds-birds-just-lookin-for-some-sugar-birds-birds-birds-just-lookin-for-a-crumb-ta-na-na-na-na-na/ << Trilema -- Birds, birds, birds, just lookin' for some sugar... birds, birds, birds, just lookin' for a crumb... ta na na na na na
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/power-rangers-move-to-deperson-peter-todd-using-vague-allegations-of-sexual-misconduct-device/ << Qntra -- Power Rangers Move To Deperson Peter Todd Using Vague Allegations Of 'Sexual Misconduct' Device
BingoBoingo: ^ In what the power rangers are up to (Living in terror of the XY Pink Ranger, Vivir in Mierda(TM)(R))
mp_en_viaje: keks
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677707 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 17:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677323 << implying someone'd want to ; which...
mp_en_viaje: lulcows, you know...
asciilifeform: lol! was todd the fella with price on his head ? or was another
asciilifeform: and wasn't isidora whatever the same chix who took Framedragger down to bottom of the sea ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Another
BingoBoingo: Yes an no. Yes Framedragger, no chix... XY thing
asciilifeform: 'An anonymous complaint was submitted to the MIT Bitcoin Expo in March for allowing Todd to speak' << 'по просьбе трудящихся'(tm)(r) !
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, do you happen to recall the discussion re psychoactives, where i was like "whatever, trying to optimize your kernel by hitting cpyu with large hammer"
asciilifeform: hmm
asciilifeform: there was a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-11#1641789 but iirc was earlier thrd ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-11 00:14 mircea_popescu: cocaine is the eminent example. it FEELS like it does things to you. it does not therefore HELP.
asciilifeform: i think earliest discuss. was http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-25#808006 . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-08-25 03:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's valid. a) erdos doesn't get his guidance from youtube ; b) most people taking it will scrub.
mp_en_viaje: i think it was a 2015-2016 era item, possibly involving g_l either personally or in being
mp_en_viaje: anyways. in other news ima be having brunch with phf tomorrow, if anyone wants me to hit him in the head for any reason let me know, i hear he's partly incapacitated anyway so it's the right time.
asciilifeform: the, i think, canonical g_l 'performance dopes' thrd . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 19:02 gabriel_laddel: gtfo or do more drugs
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: imho the hammer analogy is poor, tho -- i've 'optimized cpu' with... grinder (polish heat sink), other folx -- with liquid n2, etc. 'barbaric' manipulation can in some cases optimize fine mechanism . for some value of optimize.
asciilifeform: chemist & ex-auschwitz fella primo levi had an essay, actually , re where errything a chemist does is 'elephant watchmaker' , i.e. 'blunt' manipulations which add up to desired effect on microscopically fine subject
asciilifeform: ( the typical g_l, as i understand, aint 'watchmaker elephant' , tho, but rather ordinary elephant. but this is possibly separate point. )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: so wait, isidora was a pseudo-chix ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: AHA
asciilifeform: had nfi
asciilifeform: how does make 'sex scandal' with faux chix..?
BingoBoingo: Neither did I
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: how discovered this ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> how does make 'sex scandal' with faux chix..? << Faux chicks create drama over the attention they aren't getting
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is in the linked, archived piece
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-acadia-gives-up-on-adp-104-maybe-it-shouldnt-have-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Acadia Gives Up On ADP-104 -- Maybe It Shouldn't Have. Adnotated.
asciilifeform: 'transgender cryptographer' lol
BingoBoingo: Unless the subject looks like Buck Angel, the man with a pussy or transmayogender... safe assumption is trans means pseudochick
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-18#1923208 << notbad -- 4+ 4096bit modexp / second ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-07-18 14:29 feedbot: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/07/unrolled-x86_64-assembly-multiplication-for-updated-to-ch-14-ffa/ << bvt's backtrace -- Unrolled x86_64 Assembly Multiplication for updated to Ch. 14 FFA
asciilifeform: ( supposing 50% padding to payload -- this'd be 1024 bytes/sec of payload, i.e. quite enuff for a (compressed) voice conversation in realtime, say. )
asciilifeform: using pure rsa.
asciilifeform: == 8192 baud, if you like.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, sure, can. but can doesn't scale to will, and you ALWAYS know the difference.
asciilifeform: re which
mp_en_viaje: eg, i can'd my own brain earlier, by taking a sulpha rather than having a cold.
asciilifeform: aa aaa the prev thrd
asciilifeform: i thought was re 8192baud
asciilifeform: lol
mp_en_viaje: hurr durr, but this very much isn't equal to "ima lick all toads and see what happens"
mp_en_viaje: because when can, you already know in advance what happens.
asciilifeform: i think even g_l folk know, roughly, in advance, what will be effect
asciilifeform: ( in some industrial applications -- actually do not know in advance. in usa there is a 'national library of compounds' , coupla million synthetic rubbishes that literally no one had even fed to amoeba, much less to man. at one time asciilifeform's work consisted of uncrating $compound-of-the-day and brute force testing in vitro. but afaik dope people do not work from 'library', but from old 'mature tech' . )
asciilifeform: ( funnily enuff , these same featured in the 'glove incident'. so occasionally 'in vivo' tested inadvertently.. ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2013-11-13 14:22 asciilifeform: finally i notice she's wearing latex gloves.
mp_en_viaje: in other lulz, apparently there does exist a neuroleptic that promotes weight loss rather than gain (molindone). had nfi.