spyked: feedbot is back online, sorry for the downtime (biannual unplanned power outage at house mogosanu)
spyked will be offline for most of today, so if this happens again will have to torch the local enel offices or something
diana_coman: spyked: lol, you're setting a bounty there!
spyked: srsly tho, I have no complaints about the service most of the time. but the few times power goes down, it has to be intermittently and with spikes
diana_coman: but you know, if the "few times" when it goes down it fucks your electronics, I have no idea how you get to "no complaints"
spyked: indeed. that happened some years ago (burned a disk), which is when I decided to at the very least ups.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, and in an unexpected turn of events, your pages are now inspiring trilema articles.
diana_coman: he can't complain he didn't get feedback :D
diana_coman: but ftr, the fact he writes those in parts is because I set him to do that (as a cure to wasting time otherwise).
mircea_popescu: just drove stylistic choice of form, as it happens convenient.
mircea_popescu has a ready list of many titles, none of which MEAN anything
BingoBoingo: Goes with being located at an extreme point on the map. All I gotta do is wave North and everyone's covered within a reasonable margin of error, Porteños notably outside the salutation.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: ah, I was waiting on you and you were waiting on me?
diana_coman: 3. cumulative effect of various bits and pieces stuck/stalling
diana_coman: at 4 I mean esp given the fact that the server code is sensitive
diana_coman: this would be my list, let me know if I should detail any point in there.
mircea_popescu: are you basically spent in that you've said your piece there and you'djust be stuck reiterating ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I can add detail if/where needed but atm I don't have something I see to add there.
mircea_popescu: on one hand, i think it really should not be our preoccupation as s.mg. it's not actually important enough.
mircea_popescu: more broadly what i'm thinking to do is let bvt continue his work on kernelization, because a) the current kernel randomness code is pure shit and b) using a serial interface as the standard is perfectly fine
mircea_popescu: then as need be use either the historical fg, an upgraded item, or basically speaking ~anything else.
mircea_popescu: once the kernel has a tty hole in the right place, and the right place is under republican control, i'd say the goal has been done well.
mircea_popescu: the choice before me here is strictly to either a) tell bvt to desist, as the kernel is too cool to be touched by our derpy hands ; or else b) have some kinda process to use custom, bespoke, patched kernels.
mircea_popescu: this is a fact, and i ain't choosing a while calling this republic.
diana_coman: not like s.mg hasn't provided service to the republic so far otherwise.
mircea_popescu: now practically, seems cuntoo is (by far, actually) the least mangy dog in that horse stable, so i guess we're in the business of making it a horse.
mircea_popescu: can you actually boot the server on cuntoo as things stand ?
diana_coman: I'm rather relieved to hear that because indeed, cuntoo is the best candidate I see so far
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: not until I get rid of cs or move it to gnat and build it statically
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: what do you mean exactly by "boot the server"? (and which one: production or dev?)
mircea_popescu: well, either, both. you know, run them, what exactly could be involved here ? does your car work or is it just drawn
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: atm as they are none will boot because none are fully statically linked.
diana_coman: so if we go that route, this would be the first thing to sort out
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: that is AMD with dulap-gentoo aka proto-cuntoo aka NOT fully statically linked
diana_coman: are you confusing amd with cuntoo or what am I confusing here?
mircea_popescu: i asked if you can boot on cuntoo, you said no. i asked if you can boot at all, you said also no. i verified why no when you said yes prior, turns out you can boot at all, gotta use proto-cuntoo
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-06 11:31:53 mircea_popescu: can you boot the server as things stand at all ?
diana_coman: to fully clarify: I can boot both/either servers on dulap-gentoo on either amd or intel hardware
mircea_popescu: and you verified you can actually deploy this proto cuntoo on various hw, so we're good here : as to 1, smg will use proto-cutnoo until can switch to cuntoo ; and meanwhile ima see what trinque has to say re cuntoo and try to get bvt to patch against it and so on
diana_coman: yes; so we keep then to frozen proto-cuntoo with an idea to hopefully be able to move on to cuntoo when that is ready + we have everything statically linking.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: my main question here would be whether it's worth this intermediate proto-cuntoo step
diana_coman: maintaining the frozen dulap-gentoo recipe + all and deploying that + still having afterwards to make the switch to cuntoo when it's ready
diana_coman: on the plus side, we have something that works so there's no beating that
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: are we fine with cs as-is on client side? there are 2 aspects there: 1. dynamically linked 2. the dependency on jam/ftjam and all that
diana_coman: if we need to move it anyway, we need to move it and so ...
diana_coman: if we might squeeze without, it's a whole lot of effort&time not poured in there
mircea_popescu: as far as just the server is concerned, does it even use cs for anything ?
diana_coman: to answer your q as stated: I can move it but it will take a lot of effort and time (atm I don't have a clear estimate for it but I doubt it's less than a month given all deps)
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: production server "uses" cs because it's intertwined with it (uses data types and the like)
diana_coman: dev server I was gradually extracting CS out of it but I'm not done
mircea_popescu: but it's not a proper dependency, just data types nonsense, classes etc, like with the sad "int" nonsense of yore ?
diana_coman: and otherwise there is no point to using cs on server as far as I can see; wtf does the server need a graphics engine
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I would say it's a most improper dependency really
mircea_popescu: so i suppose this is the first actionable we unveil here : ima want an estimate on a) how long to divorce dev server from cs ; and b) how long to move client cs on cuntoo.
diana_coman: there would be perhaps some bits like movement calculation but there is no possible reason I can see for that to pull in the whole cs or something ffs; ie it can be done separately, why wouldn't it.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-06 11:41:51 diana_coman: maintaining the frozen dulap-gentoo recipe + all and deploying that + still having afterwards to make the switch to cuntoo when it's ready
diana_coman: cs is the same btw, there is no client-cs and server-cs
mircea_popescu: steam TO THIS DAY has recurrent bugs consisting of completely broken installs produced by failing to upgrade its own fucking lbiraries.
mircea_popescu: people don't like it, people come here ask how to help
like good doobies, thing's fixed in no time. otherwise people are more then welcome to go fuck their ugly mothers / cluck on facebook until they fall over.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, it's the same pile of junk ; but it's very different in terms of utility / justification for impac tin my mind is all.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: ah, I see; I suppose the thing is that cuntoo is currently a server-side system really (no X)
mircea_popescu: i'm not even necessarily sure that i want to push it into the gfx stack.
diana_coman: so in this sense there's currently little reason to sink time into porting cs
mircea_popescu: god knows my being an engineer slated for that went instead to be stupid.
diana_coman: all right; I'm all for *not* taking on yet another pile of wtf
mircea_popescu: i'm also not at all sure i want to dictate os or userland/tooling for people running clients.
diana_coman: if only people would start running their own clients!
diana_coman: nobody would dictate them anything for sure.
mircea_popescu: or if only people would start running in general, as opposed to the current decerebrated snailcircle. w/e.
diana_coman: yes; /me read through s.nsa historical reports so got enough of that for today.
diana_coman: anyways, so proto-cuntoo for server side and there's no futzing needed there
mircea_popescu: so, basically, the way this is going is, server on protocuntoo for now and cuntoo in the future ; and ~demo~ client on proto-cuntoo and let the community make whatever it wants.
diana_coman: I will however look into how long it would take to ditch cs on dev server
diana_coman: but no real need to spend time on looking at moving cs, is there?
mircea_popescu: the decision whether cuntoo is to be headless or x-headed has not yet been made.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: would the demo client be text-only then or what?
mircea_popescu: so, basically, the way this is going is, server on protocuntoo for now and cuntoo in the future ; and ~demo~ client on ubuntu/whateverthefuck, dynamic hell and let the community make whatever it wants.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: it might be useful to go through the list of things perhaps
diana_coman: other than the os since that is at least decided for now, there would be:
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: we have eucrypt that generates the rsa keys and serpent and all that client and server need; we however do not have (and it was supposedly in discussion/waiting/etc) a clear way to store them securely; let me dig log ref
ossabot: Logged on 2019-01-13 09:29:50 mircea_popescu: ad interim the draft is, that the client stores all the keys (rsa, serpent, whatever) one per line, the rsa ones in republican format, the rest unspecified as of yet, in a file called keys.tmsr encrypted by the rsa key of the client.
mircea_popescu: the way this is going is that serious player will have dedicated box for eurlora anyways. there's little diff between disk and ram for as long as one uses dedicated box.
diana_coman: so stored in plain text and that's that, correct?
mircea_popescu: NOT that it makes a difference, the client key will still be there.
diana_coman: ie why use the client key if anyway there too, not much to it
mircea_popescu: look, practically : either we ask the user to remember a password, or else we ask the user to secure a token/
diana_coman: tbh (and possibly outside S.MG's direct scope) I don't get exactly why don't we have already a command line replacement to gpg, ugh
mircea_popescu: because great scientists are discovering great science
mircea_popescu: YEARS they've been at it, and they have earned all this respect with their useful anal work.
diana_coman: my thought was that if *that* was done, the above bootstrapping thing would have ended up getting more attention and thus possibly moving on as well; but this is why I said possibly outside S.MG scope
mircea_popescu: nope, bitcoin has plaintext wallet for years, something i criticized very harshly.
diana_coman: all right; so at any rate, not an issue for S.MG, it will proceed with how things stand and that's that.
mircea_popescu: i'm too lazy to search right now for the article where some power ranger shiothead was "offering to reimplement mpex"
mircea_popescu: hanbot, see if you can find it, iirc was back in mpoe-pr days
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, people use all sorta lulz, "encrypted drives" whatever nonsense. it's a ridiculous state of affairs, but it's what we god, what can we do.
diana_coman: tbh this particular bit with the keys was/is the *main* itchy thing because it feels ridiculous really; I'm doing "encryption" there every which way and then the keys are plain text; but wtf.
mircea_popescu: next item, moving files in v ?! WHAT THE FUCK phf fixed this as the only thing he did in like 3 years.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: not as far as I know; it was always *not done* but always popping up in people's memory as "working"; except every time I wanted to *move* a file rather than have it del/add, it turned out that ...no.
diana_coman: now if someone has the proof I'm being an idiot on this, please step forwards and hit me with it, I'll be very glad.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, nah, 2015ish item, dork in question was very specifically asciilifeforming all over himself, "oh, will take mp out"
diana_coman: granted, this is relatively small snag for S.MG, not like eulora can't go on without it but it's annoying esp because of this "seems to have been done"
mircea_popescu: we will have to prorogue this issue for some log reading, because wtf.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-07-21 08:57:32 diana_coman: hm, current vtools still don't handle move of files or what am I missing here? I made a simple test with moving one file to a different location and as far as I can see, it's still delete + create, no move
mircea_popescu: for that matter, is there even an actually working vtron ?
mircea_popescu: or the usual byproduct of the undisturbed existence of "engineer" cunts, ie, a pile of cvasi-working shitballs ?
diana_coman: at any rate, my current understanding for S.MG is that it will proceed with what there is and as such the bulk of work stems mainly from the graphics & ironing out the smg comms + new client (plenty there to do but at least I know what I'm looking at)
diana_coman: that seems to be referenced/found by people and hence used
mircea_popescu: aite. we shall talk again about move later this week then.
diana_coman: those two were most snagging from not-directly-eulora; the rest is mainly the complexity with the graphics & cs
diana_coman: I still had to dive into CS's "shaders" and so at least I know better what those are and how they come into play but that can be written up as it is and taken from there
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: this is added on my tree, I didn't yet get to sign it
diana_coman: I don't use that init command but at any rate, it's fine as far as I looked at it first pass
mircea_popescu: now as to 4 : i'd obviously like the server back up as soon as possibru.
mircea_popescu: getting a coupla boxes somewhere in the sense of amateurship so dear to the previously tolerated morons is the least of our troubles.
mircea_popescu: is the stuff in a shape you want running publicly as we stand ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: the production server has been running before and it can run again as it is; the issue there is really the one concerning access to the code if we just put it ~anywhere.
mircea_popescu: but in principle, there's no good dev-side reason to delay.
diana_coman: (the dev server can run but won't do anything for current client)
mircea_popescu: it's not, in other worse, a case of "wait just this short interval, will do new release" etc
mircea_popescu: aite, well, not like there's any games one can play (i fucking looked, i'm back to playing antique 2000 era stuff, steam's dead, kongregate's dead, everything's fucking dead. half the links on mmorpg.com lead to dead / domain for sale / nonsense items, the other half to steam crap, it's just... gaming's fucking dead, everyone just clucks on derpy facebook fake traffic numbers generators, as fucking if 5k reloads/second
mircea_popescu: in some dumbphone game equate to trilema article reads)
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: just to make sure re order of my next steps here:
diana_coman: first I'll do now the estimates re ditching cs from server (dev)
diana_coman: and after that I go back to client graphics & comms (+server side ofc, but that is waiting on comms protocol atm)
diana_coman: ofc in between there will be setting the server up whenever we have where
mircea_popescu: aite. there'll be a brief excursion in there to get the prod server back up, but yes.
mircea_popescu spits once more on the fresh grave of "engineers" for good measure
mircea_popescu: never, ye hear me people of the future, NEVER take the cows for people. athena made them cows for a reason.
mircea_popescu: which leads us back to our regularly scheduled programming.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-29 09:46:27 mp_en_viaje: with diana_coman as to the future strategy of s.mg (which normally'd belong in eulora, i suppose, but honestly might as well happen here, not like there's any traffic jam or anything) ; and of course with diana_coman hanbot trinque BingoBoingo lobbes spyked bvt ave1 as to what exactly we still want and we can in fact support going forward.
mircea_popescu: so concretely, lobbes is supposed to deliver that botthing soonish ; you're doing the above, bvt is beating rng into the kernel, BingoBoingo is getting himself out of the 2nd failed reboot of isp
BingoBoingo: BingoBoingo: Right, been managing shareholder expectations re: upcoming auctions.
mircea_popescu: gawd, spyked, two months of irc bots till the end of the year ? srsly ?
mircea_popescu: billymg, what's the mp-wp story, did i miss some updates ?
mircea_popescu: hanbot, you up to date on diana_coman 's castle logs ?
mircea_popescu: an' that leaves of the human hands ave1 an' mocky thoroughly unaccounted for.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I'm still here if there's some q re #o you want me to answer
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, rather, im thinking a backup #o might be a good idea.
hanbot: mircea_popescu i browse, but haven't strictly "kept up". i can spend a day or two getting there tho', what's up?
diana_coman: I'd be very happy to have hanbot there for sure
diana_coman: she anyway covers better than me some areas
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, not that she shouldn' t be in there or anything ; but there's #hanbot, might as well make two of these seeing how yours seems to work
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: ah, I thought she already had hers but mainly aimed at a different demographic?
mircea_popescu: ima just change the current "Nov 04 09:50:24 -ChanServ- [#trilema] To speak here you must be voiced by one of the lords. Talk to asciilifeform , BingoBoingo , diana_coman , hanbot or trinque about it." to a "see #ossasepia or #hanbot" and call it good
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, you mean the blog, bimbo.club ? nicoleci runs that
diana_coman: cool; I'll get around to pop ossabot into #hanbot too then
hanbot: mircea_popescu & c: my channel is/was #trilema-hanbot
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: no, I thought it was just not online.
diana_coman: all right, I'm sure we can coordinate anyway and it'll surely help.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm working on a plan for #agriculturalsupremacy as a castle, but its still too raw to present as a default option on the level of what diana_coman and hanbot can offer.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, besides, you'll have some full time work in actually going through dc lists etc.
BingoBoingo: DC lists, other opportunities to apprentice myself into a career, etc
BingoBoingo: Proposed Pizarro auctions will be published in a few hours with the aim of firing off auction opening commands Friday. Auction opening prices will be done with the reserve as the coin I, personally, am willing to pay for ownership of the auctioned items and lots of items.
BingoBoingo: In other news, the legal sitation on the ground here appears to be nearing resolution.
BingoBoingo: The mircea_popescu method works far better than what I could have done on my own. Thank you.
BingoBoingo: Also their lawyer now isn't their lawyer I apparently mean with
BingoBoingo: *met with. They've apparently spent much. I've spent little. The outcome is not yet clear, but the outcome space is very narrow with clear forked paths. None of these paths presents a danger to my continued presence in Uruguay if that's what the future wants me to do.
mircea_popescu: there's some definite value in making it uncomfortably unpleasant for idiots to continue being idiotic, that's for sure.
mircea_popescu: in fact, that alone's a sufficient winning strategy : tagging stupidity with as much cost as at all possible's all that's really needed.
BingoBoingo: I've made it clear to the lawyers I rather don't expect they are solvent enough to collect anything when I win a suit. I'm more inclined to pass a bulletproof fraud denuncia to the Fiscalia and let them sort it out.