log
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lobbes will admit to committing cardinal sin of not fully reading the cuntoo bootstrap scripts before my first run-through (which trinque rightfully whacked me over the head for)
lobbes: however on second run-through I indeed went back to read the scripts in tandem with the gentoo handbook (so as to actually understand what was going on) and produced a bootable genesis that verified >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/ ☟︎
mircea_popescu: here's the thing with this reading business : most things are read on the second pass. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: as i sit here now, there's things around me i've never read. serial numbers on smoke detectors, handling and caring labels on rugs, brand names on plaster and wall insulation facing inside, towards the wall. i am not about to tear the place apart to read all possible strings around me. i might, ~if need be~, of course. but not before.
mircea_popescu: this is exactly cosubstantial with the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919401 inquiry : "reading everything aforehand" as a strategy is just as dysfunctional as any other idealism aka premature optimization. there's a fucking reason republican doctrine is "do it by hand first, automate later, and those parts that actually need it and benefit from it, rather than randomly and abstractly like the pantsuit do". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 21:28 trinque: or is this "in six years time we'll have systems that work"
mircea_popescu: because the republic's a practice, not a "narrative" aka daydream. fundamentally, what distinguishes us from the github hipster / foss moron / entire collected pile of avortons looking for their abortion from "the bay area" & portland to eudemocracia and beyond is that we don't read on the first pass, BUT ON THE SEC
mircea_popescu: OND.
mircea_popescu: whereas usg.blue reads not-at-all, never ever no matter what ; and usg.red reads always-aforehand. both of these idiocies, equally idiotic as they find themselves, are therefore always found in some uneasy truce. but you can't properly notate "read on 2nd pass" as "didn't read" or "won't read".
mircea_popescu: and so no, what worries me isn't that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919296 ; what worries me is htat the last item in http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22trinque.org%22 is from 2018, and that trinque.org doesn't load today like deedbot.org didn't load yest, when i wanted to check the helpfile and ended up loading it from archive.is ; ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 18:07 trinque: I noticed that not a soul read the scripts that bootstrap cuntoo
mircea_popescu: what worries me is this approach whereby a) things tend to be discussed in response to some kind of prodding, and b) while that feeling lasts, only to c) fall back into an eerie silence within a few hours or maybe days, for WEEKS AND WEEKS AND MONTHS AND YEARS AT A TIME!!! ☟︎
mircea_popescu: rather than in the normal, and correct manner in which things are discussed, as they are noticed, to get to their bottom, which is then gotten to and marked as such and things move on, with the bottom in question an ever-reliable reference always at the ready for having been correctly found, and always visible just under the skin of things, for having been correctly found.
mircea_popescu: and this paroxistic-avoidant approach worries me universally, phf is stuck in the exact same rut, for instance. i have never in my life seen this approach to things work. not once, not FUCKING ONCE, and this is all the more indicative as it's one of the most commonly deployed broken strategies.
diana_coman: re reading of stuff I guess there is also the difference between one reading and full load-in-the-head; it struck me that people would want others to do more load-in-the-head of what they produce so as to get finer-detail feedback
mircea_popescu: this is always a crapshoot.
mircea_popescu: i mean, i would also like people to do more loading-into-head of whatever their native language is, so i could get better movies, music lyrics and music videos, books, blog articles and everything else.
mircea_popescu: but... what can you do. it's a crapshoot, you know this going in.
mircea_popescu: in any case the "i am of the republic, i will now base my self worth on the qty and amt of loading-in-head my works get" is, as of yet, a recipe for eternal sadness. this is a new rather than old republic.
diana_coman: what I don't understand is why not ask specifically if one would like detailed feedback on some bit/part they struggle with
diana_coman: oh, I don't know if it's re self-worth; rather interpreting the "not fully load-in-head" as "not read"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, this is like slavegirl saying "i don;'t understand why not ask detailedly for tongue movements and assorted shenanigans". she gets punished if jher bj is subpar because i don't have the fucking patience to micromanage blowjobs. it'd be like writing the book im about to read, if i wrote it what sorta discovery is this!
diana_coman: uhm, there seems to be something out of sync in there; perhaps you are right and the problem is one of wrongly-attached self-worth though I did not see it that way
diana_coman: in which case yes, what specific ask
diana_coman: I rather saw it as "can't do this alone, need help but won't ask because it should come naturally"
mircea_popescu: not sure that's all that different
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: hm; to make it clear what I mean re loading-in-head - arguably if I had fully loaded-in-head the scripts, I should have found http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901339 myself, right? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-10 21:39 trinque: scripts/make_portage_tree.sh << line 14, I do string-munging on the path that's specific to my own filesystem layout
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, i suppose in a very theoretical, idealized sense. in practice however... what are we to conclude on the basis of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-04#1884426 ? that neither i (nor anyone else here for that matter) had diffraction loaded in head ? the wave model of energy ? what exactly ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-04 17:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck didn't i think of that.
mircea_popescu: this pov is even voiced, but always in a chiding tone in training environments. it has its place there, but i dunno how practicable it is in the general.
mircea_popescu: there's this lengthy list of examples of people coming to grief through the process of "that mp so dumb, dun even know how to horseride a shirt" or w/e such.
mircea_popescu: responsibility is a fine and great thing indeed ; but it's not mechanizable, as part and parcel of why we have a wot as it is rather than as the lulzentreprise everyone else imagines it to be.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, more practically, are we running cuntoo latest or what is the situation there ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: did i miss some articles ?
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919220 <-- well, I can't in all good faith sign and publish the item before I understand it well enough to maintain it myself -- for the same money, I could just claim "use the version on shithub" and be done with that. I agree 100% that I should do small regular updates, but in this case breaking the thing into its constituent parts is the challenge, and "hunchentoot arc ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 13:57 mircea_popescu: the sort of "before publishing, I'm making sure" idiocy is exactly, but i do mean exactly, of the same substance as the fat girl's "this donut has no calories". it uses the exact same parts of the brain in the exact same way.
spyked: hitecture" is actually next blogpost in the works.
mircea_popescu: aite.
mircea_popescu: there's no rule you must publish the signed thing. you can publish 11 drafts before signing, what of it. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: you also can publish on your own fucking schedule, just don't hang yourself in your own petard.
spyked: but more specifically: the code I've stolen works so far, I have it serving an instance of thetarpit plus a somewhat-working experiment doing dynamic stuff PHP-style. but there's a lotta complexity in the work distribution code that has me going "wtf". perhaps one good task would be to implement a worker-pool thing, similarly to what apache has.
mircea_popescu: how do you work, do you have this codepile loaded up in some sort of management interface ? does it permit adnotation ?
spyked: for the moment all my notes are in a text file that's going to grow into a blogpost as soon as it has a head and a tail
spyked: line-per-line annotation sounds like a neat idea, but I don't have anything like that going
mircea_popescu: well, you know like suppose hutchentoot was http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/
mircea_popescu: now admire what i can do : http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/#selection-13.14-37.22 << this part is boring ; http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/#selection-41.0-57.15 << this part is a quote ; http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/#selection-61.0-65.37 << this part is about bitcoin ; http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/#selection-65.37-89.175 << i have no fucking idea wtf this is.
mircea_popescu: can you do this in some manner ? so people can follow your work if they can be arsed to import the same ide / cms ? (here, it's a bit of js, and a browser, that entire stack)
mircea_popescu: and so some other guy can go "that nfi part is just a discussion of so and so, like this" and so on ?
mircea_popescu: because it occurs to me that ~if~ you publish your codebase you're working on, and if your blog works correctly in the mp-wp sense, then therefore you get all this for free, just make a metapost.
mircea_popescu: or alternatively, there's all sorta greatness, phf has a perfectly workable code metadiscussion system on btcbase, jurov had a ver yworkable one for earlier trb work and so fucking on.
spyked: oh I see. I could do something like that, as in http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08b-feedbot-ii.html#selection-150.0-167.116 . but IMHO the btcbase referencing style makes more sense for code
mircea_popescu: this "here i sit, my eyes intelligent, my expression absent" situation's for the birds.
mircea_popescu: spyked, i have no stylistical qualms, it's just an example of phisiology. use whatever works best, sure.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i shall bbl.
spyked: this makes perfect sense, I'ma do that for my next code-report.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919625 - s.mg test is running proto-cuntoo (non-musltronic) so not latest, no; there was this http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-27#1875228 and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901069 ; as long as there is the CS dependency still on server, a move to static & musltronic only is also likely to be a lot of work. ☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 08:49 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, more practically, are we running cuntoo latest or what is the situation there ?
a111: Logged on 2018-11-27 18:11 diana_coman: trinque, that looks great; if I understand correctly, the archive there contains the means to a. install cuntoo b. make the genesis of cuntoo/portage that could in principle be used to move an existing gentoo to cuntoo; is this correct?
a111: Logged on 2019-03-09 22:45 trinque: the remainder of work here is resolving this issue (I have not had) with paths, after which we can start producing ebuilds for novel republican work atop the genesis.
diana_coman: so far other parts took priority (smg comms and client) but at least my understanding was that there is work being done further on cuntoo, I had no idea that it was stuck waiting on more intensive use or something
mp_en_viaje: well, that's what i thought as well.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, but basically, it's running the same thing from 2018 ; and the reason it doesnt move is that a) we couldn't give less of a shit about ebuilds while b) we can't easily change the pile of dependencies to live with musl and so yet haven't.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, seems in the ripe silence of lack of activty all sorta things grew disjointed an' out of sync.
mp_en_viaje: always a nice discovery to make.
diana_coman: quite.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919593 << perhaps "not read" was overkill on my part. apologies to lobbes and hanbot ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 00:03 lobbes: however on second run-through I indeed went back to read the scripts in tandem with the gentoo handbook (so as to actually understand what was going on) and produced a bootable genesis that verified >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919603 << for my part, this directly correlates to irl rope-pushing without which I wouldn't have what on which to type. this is perhaps disqualifying, and I'll leave that for others to say. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 06:57 mircea_popescu: what worries me is this approach whereby a) things tend to be discussed in response to some kind of prodding, and b) while that feeling lasts, only to c) fall back into an eerie silence within a few hours or maybe days, for WEEKS AND WEEKS AND MONTHS AND YEARS AT A TIME!!!
mp_en_viaje: it's not disqualifying on its own, but why does it correlate ?
trinque: broadly, because I haven't yet extracted enough of the inflationary fruits of the former into coin.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919601 << hosted on the box BingoBoingo swapped IP, will get it updated ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 06:55 mircea_popescu: and so no, what worries me isn't that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919296 ; what worries me is htat the last item in http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22trinque.org%22 is from 2018, and that trinque.org doesn't load today like deedbot.org didn't load yest, when i wanted to check the helpfile and ended up loading it from archive.is ;
mp_en_viaje: yes but look, is the idea here that for the past whatever, 4-5 months you have been ~so busy~ that not only you had no time to say things about your work on gentoo, but also somehow ended up isolated into yourself among sadnesses about how nobody reads and such ?
mp_en_viaje: obviously, on some level, there's only so many hours in the day, whether one works or doesn't, still there's a finite time.
mp_en_viaje: but is there absolutely no more to it ?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914461 << this wasn't a throwaway comment, nor was it an insult to anybody. lords, or simply strapping dudes looking to score, better be holding coin at the end of the day. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 23:17 trinque: republic is scant of profit centers
mp_en_viaje: quite.
trinque: the cumulative work on gentoo was wasted cycles if portage is undesired, as most of the work was around capturing portage in a given state
trinque: that's not anyone's problem but mine, but pointing at it illustrates what I'd like to avoid repeating
mp_en_viaje: trinque, wouldja hang on a minute here ?
mp_en_viaje: the point was to get it in a ~state~. something to start actual decrufting work from. portage itself is mostly a raft for navigating the phenomenology of fosstardation
mp_en_viaje: what it does is, give some measure of anti-friability to the everchange.
mp_en_viaje: neh ?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919413 << indeed ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 21:34 trinque: my intent here has been to stablize the workbench and then make a *hard* break with the whole stack
mp_en_viaje: right. so portage might be the pipe that got you your galon of linux. but that is what you wanted -- not the faucet, but the galon. ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: whole fucking interest for us here is to do ~something~ (not entirely known what exactly yet) so that we... don't fucking need portage ever again.
mp_en_viaje: or any thing like it.
trinque: we agree. I contend that folks are going to have to build e.g. v, gnat, in order to move forward, which is why I'm asking for ebuilds
trinque: it's a call for a proper camp, not a settlement
trinque brb
feedbot: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/06/unrolled-assembly-squaring/ << bvt's backtrace -- Unrolled x86_64 Assembly Squaring for Ch. 12 FFA ☟︎
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919658 << naw, I took no personal offense. Only pointing out that I understood cuntoo is not a $ubuntu-installer item ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 17:39 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919593 << perhaps "not read" was overkill on my part. apologies to lobbes and hanbot
lobbes: s/cuntoo is/cuntoo bootstrap scripts are/
feedbot: http://pizarroisp.net/2019/06/23/pizarro-isp-june-23rd-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP June 23rd Update
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in peanut gallery, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-19810 ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919559 << the obv. problem is that in unixtardation land, to build certain proggies requite yet others to be already built. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 22:34 mircea_popescu: whereas implicit v-ism would be "all code is made one pile, then built once and linked, and that's it".
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919567 << interestingly, i got his to boot, simply required xor eax, 0x3 where byte addressing used, 1 opcode. (not needed for generic linux built by sane people, but i dun have one yet for mips ) ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 22:46 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919282 << this is such sad nonsense...
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919583 << asciilifeform doesn't publish products that require rubber bands. ( this is a double-edged sword, asciilifeform has large pile of items he does not consider publication-grade, and hasn't the resources to bring up to it, but can live with this ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 23:17 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919311 << i think this is running in the wrong direction. just more shit to break / require rubber bads / touching just so and etc.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919585 << i was thinking from ' mircea_popescu's uci ' angle. ( btw anyone familiar with linked item ?? did it work ? ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 23:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919322 << one of the corps red hat bought and buried was arguably getting close.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919594 << can't speak for others, but often enuff asciilifeform needs 2-3 log passes to grasp $thread ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 06:44 mircea_popescu: here's the thing with this reading business : most things are read on the second pass.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919631 << iirc i pasted 100+ drafts of various ffa moving parts, before genesised any ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 09:41 mircea_popescu: there's no rule you must publish the signed thing. you can publish 11 drafts before signing, what of it.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... ) ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 18:00 mp_en_viaje: right. so portage might be the pipe that got you your galon of linux. but that is what you wanted -- not the faucet, but the galon.
asciilifeform: i.e. when building new proggies, have had to do it 100% by hand ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919686 << pretty interesting. bvt : i'ma work through these when i finish with keccakism components ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 18:45 feedbot: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/06/unrolled-assembly-squaring/ << bvt's backtrace -- Unrolled x86_64 Assembly Squaring for Ch. 12 FFA
asciilifeform: i admit, expected a little moar speedup from asmism, so pretty curious why < 2.5x as it is
asciilifeform: btw, in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919704 , e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796255 thrd ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 21:34 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... )
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 15:29 asciilifeform: speaking of which, apparently AS OF TODAY gentoo portage latest ver DEMANDS gpg2.
bvt: asciilifeform: perhaps i could get a bit better performance after scrutinizing multiplication code a bit; however i don't think it'll get much faster with current code structure
bvt: now, sse could theoretically help, but there is a question of whether sse operations are constant time (in each generation of intel cpus)
asciilifeform: bvt: which see ops ?
asciilifeform: at one pt i also thought this, and looked , and found 0 that seemed applicable
asciilifeform: ( in fact iirc it was bvt who said 'have you looked, there's none' and i did, and found none )
asciilifeform: !!up mp_en_viaje
deedbot: mp_en_viaje voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: intel & amd enthusiastically put in 9000 worthless piece o'shit instructions, but how about a 256-bit multiplier ? nope. evidently Only A Terrorist (tm)(r) would ever ask for such thing.
mp_en_viaje: 1sec
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919691 << ninjashoguns come in many aspects... ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 21:22 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in peanut gallery, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-19810
asciilifeform: adlais, to be exact
asciilifeform: 'i only nao saw this, but Here Is How To Fix!!!'
asciilifeform: it's expected in a small boy, but how grown man gets stuck in that mode, i do not know -- must be sumthing physiological, cns equiv of dwarfism
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919706 << for one reason or another, it's what ~always happens. INCLUDING in "works by itself" ubuntu, as i think i've recently documented beyond all fucking possible degree of intolerable tedium. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-23 21:34 asciilifeform: i.e. when building new proggies, have had to do it 100% by hand
mp_en_viaje: or so i thought at the time ; but maybe the forum really wanted to hear more about how literally nothing can be fucking compiled without rewriting some parts, etc
asciilifeform: 2y ago asciilifeform had roughly same experience with an expensive and supposedly very spiffy chinese usb oscilloscope. purportedly 'worx under linux', but then went and bought an' tried...
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-20#1918982 << latest installment ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-06-20 13:13 mircea_popescu: well so let's see here : i can't play, because after sinking however many hours in chasing dependencies and fixing assorted if widely distributed breakage the end story is that "foss" has managed to really give the whole game away -- there is ONE chain, consisting of play on linux so-and-so using wine-so-and-so on ubuntu this-and-that, and you pray it works -- because if it doesn't work, THAT IS IT, "there was an error" li
asciilifeform: ( spoiler: also demanded 'wine', and with in the end same result as mp's 3d card )
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i recall this.
mp_en_viaje: and i STILL know as close as anything can be known as a matter of fact that the code's fundamentally fine, and some wrapper intermediary is spuriously fucking it up.
mp_en_viaje: for maximal enjoyment of this life.
asciilifeform: fundamental culprit is idjit 1970s os where no meaningful debug (or even localization of eggog) is possible, at least w/out year+ of sweat (that who has resource for?)
asciilifeform: one time asciilifeform had a paid contract to make a (early 2000s) wireless nic (w/ various oddball features for physics experiment) behave under opensores. took entire summer.
asciilifeform: another time, robot. took year+.
asciilifeform: (of all day, erry day, grind)
asciilifeform: could be , asciilifeform's hands grow from arse, and someone else can do 2x faster ? who knows
asciilifeform: in each case, ought to be said, required 100% demolition of 100% of the 'purportedly worx!!' liquishits
mp_en_viaje: currently i suspect something's ni-ing out a shader's pointer. but anyway
asciilifeform: rright but who's gonna attempt debug of 50MB closed turd.
mp_en_viaje: not i.
asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1667, it took coupla months
asciilifeform: err,
asciilifeform patched once a 300kB closed turd, it took coupla months
mp_en_viaje: keks
asciilifeform: aaand that was an item where i found jtag test points that could be soldered & operated
asciilifeform: i.e. single-steppable
asciilifeform: illustrative case where ~not~ found : 'cr50'
asciilifeform: another illustrative case, amd 2015 g-series, where debug contacts disabled w/out magic key ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 15:36 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! pc engines 'apu2' (the board with the intel nics - vs. 'apu1', with realtek) , turns out, is crippled, hdt probe barfs with it, the cpu is reputed to have a drm fuse set.
asciilifeform brb:meat
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/baby-doll/ << Trilema -- Baby Doll
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/06/week-in-review-irans-come-at-me-bro-posture-exposing-usg-empires-impotence/ << Qntra -- Week In Review: Iran's "Come At Me Bro" Posture Exposing USG Empire's Impotence