1714 entries in 0.903s
mircea_popescu: it's unclear if that language reduces then to
ada, but i suspect not.
mircea_popescu: you know, data type. that i can put in an
ada-like manual and write a compiler for.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-03 23:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in re
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-06#1515745 << we've completed tests and confirmed we can actually link
ada code. i'm thinking, prolly the best way is to make an official and definitive tmsr-rsa ~in
ada~ as a v root ? or hows's your general numeric thing coming along and more importantly what's it written in ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in re
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-06#1515745 << we've completed tests and confirmed we can actually link
ada code. i'm thinking, prolly the best way is to make an official and definitive tmsr-rsa ~in
ada~ as a v root ? or hows's your general numeric thing coming along and more importantly what's it written in ?
☝︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: the whole point of stupid, yes, "let's make
ada work in php!"
scoopbot: AdaPilot - The Open Source
Ada-ARM Autopilot Project
trinque: well, I took CL so you'll have to in
ada.
mod6: This sort of leads us back to the original question: to
Ada, or not to
Ada.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol, what, you mean they moved from py ? to what,
ada ?
phf: only acceptable solution is 200 lines of
ADA, that you can run on dos (equivalently baremetal) and needs www interface
mircea_popescu: and the supersecret future plan of factory -> vsli ->
ada -> lisp -> scheme / numeric algebra / stuff is busted open by careless accidental coversations in a public channel
a111: Logged on 2016-03-12 00:40 mircea_popescu: (actually, amusingly enough, swift docs date from just about the era
ada was fashionable. there was such a time - just like that time in the 90s when everyone was eager to implement linux-y things and you didn't really have to sell it at all, whole cities just switched for no reason)
mod6:
Ada 2012 Reference Manual. Language and Standard Libraries: International Standard ISO/IEC 8652/2012 (E) (Lecture Notes in Computer Science / Programming and Software Engineering)
mod6: <+asciilifeform> in other nyooz, my '
ada 2012 ref man.' is here. << that's neat. thought we were leaning towards the '95 standard?
☟︎ shinohai: I'm ready. Thanks to mats I am not worried about space constraints any longer. Gonna try and order some
Ada materials soon and get up to speed with you guise.
mod6: Ok, so i had to re-read all of that so im finally caught up here.. i didn't even consider interleaving
ada with C really. i dunno why, i was just thinking it would just be its own separate deal.
mircea_popescu: what, whne you were raving about
ada the specified, what did you think i read, exactly this, "oh, he hopes and wills to make the whole chain"
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the iB : there's a number of very valuable ideas, at least in my eyes, that discussion throughout has brought out. yes the sha thing discussed on trilema ; also -
ada, linked into the c, and slowly driving out the c, much in the way the vermin try to drive out say x11 or rsa etc.
mod6: as
Ada. We've all kicked it around a bunch about the lang, and I'm not sure we're all sold on
Ada. But seems like a step in the correct direction overall.
phf: maybe if i wrote it in
ada, it'd be boing 747 on the first try
mod6: Say that the reward half is in july... seems hard to figure we could have anything meaningful written in
ada by then at all.
mod6: mircea_popescu: anyway, re: retooling to
ada; I think my overall thought was, get v054 complete, in its classic form. Then move along to
ada perhaps. But then there's still the question surrounding your suggested changes. Should be done in cpp ala classic? Or full re-write including your changes?
mod6: (04:07) <+ben_vulpes> mod6: i have a trashy pdf copy of dodrill's 95
ada instructional material. lmk if you want a copy. << sure! hit me with a link or we can talk in pm if you wanna exchange in other method.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: mod6: i have a trashy pdf copy of dodrill's 95
ada instructional material. lmk if you want a copy.
☟︎ mod6: asciilifeform: this guys introduction to
Ada looks like a really good tut.
mod6: asciilifeform: thanks for the
ada link
mod6: good convo today re:
ada/c/math machine, etc.
mircea_popescu: "
Ada.Text_IO is a "package" that comes with
Ada. (In
Ada 83, the package name is just Text_IO, and for compatibility,
Ada 95 also accepts the shorter name.) We'll learn more about packages later."
mircea_popescu: anyway, re earlier discussion, i guess it'd be worth belabouring the point that nothing therein contained is an argument against using
ada. it's still a great technical solution, for bounds checking, for other reasons, it's still a great practical solution, for native linkability with c object code, for other reasons. same stands for scheme, still best option for a scripting language for bitcoind.
phf: it's a philosophical discussion, and mp, not being a programmer, is realizing that
ada or c or .. is not actually it from where he stands, doesn't mean can't be used, just not magick.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: it is, in places such as
ada, "must use contiguity" the EXACT equivalent of "my ai program thinks because the procedure is called <<understanding>>"
mircea_popescu: to the question "why did they not define EVEN correctly, eschewing this problem they perceive with mod" you answer that "
ada is a civilized lang like commonlisp and there is NOT a presumption that integers are machine words !". This objection, if accepted as the correct response, ALSO invalidates using, say, XOR, and for the same reason.
mircea_popescu: the problem is this : in
ada manual it is said, "So we see that the predicate in the subtype Even cannot be a static predicate because the operator mod is not permitted with the current instance. But mod could be used in an inner static expression." ; it is further said "and, in addition, a call of a Boolean logical operator and, or, xor, not whose operands are such static predicate expressions, and, a static predicate expres
mircea_popescu: so then are you saying
ada shouldn't allow either mod or > ?
phf: asciilifeform: recall that i spent probably most time here on tinyscheme going as far as writing swank integration and unreleased bignums, i'm saying that you go through phases of "this is how we solve bitcoin". i grok the value of
ada, and i grok the value of scheme, but neither are alternative-less. in fact with the amount of skill available, simply hacking on btc consistently we would've been further along
phf: alf is deeply infatuated at the moment with
ada, so you should wait a few months :p
mircea_popescu: recall what our dispute (of sorts) re
ada ended up resolving as ? "hey man - it may pretend it's not like c - but it's like c".
mircea_popescu: so thinking about it, phf really deflated my article. fact remains : cpu is cpu, it will do what it will do. whatever the fuck you call what it does, it's what it does. yes
ada is well mistaken to speak wrong mathematics, but then again it's not a mathematics shop. you want to use your lengthier, thicker and more nodular math cock to mock the poor engineers, go ahead, but the fuck it does.
mod6: been trying to plow through sicp and that compiler book. and
ada.
phf: lisp's answer is given von neumann what's most flexible model,
ada's answer is given von neumann how do we put enough constraints that there are runtime reliability guarantees
mircea_popescu: "While range specifications are very useful, they are also highly limited in their usefulness.
Ada ranges must always be contiguous. This means that you cannot specify an integer data type of only even numbers, for instance. Even numbers are not contiguous."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you explain the concept of "contiguity" as seen in this
ada spec discussion ?
phf: well, incremental improvement on
ada doesn't seem like a particularly interesting problem, thing comes with a lineage, wirth's pascal, modula, oberon;
ada fits into that ecosystem, so simply going over wirth's research you can find a lot of existing ideas for
ada improvements
PeterL: asciilifeform could you make a "right thing" that is better than
ada?
mircea_popescu: and yes, the more i hear about
ada the more i like it, or properly speaking the more it sounds like right thing.
mircea_popescu: phf: well, so far i've succeeded in breaking annotations phf: or maybe not phf: well, something's working anyway <<< bwahahaha check out the
ada-lisper at work! :D