▁▁▁⏐︎ 5644
phf: asciilifeform: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/seals/ ask mod6, but i suspect that both were reground, and you didn't resign either since that happened
phf: also ben_vulpes was redoing his patches for technical reasons
asciilifeform: phf: wai wat
phf: ha
phf: a111 can't even
asciilifeform: http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/11420140210147.jpg << oblig.
phf: asciilifeform: well, if you look at the seals folder you'll noticed that your sigs for the two patches are not there either, nor do i have them in my backup. since i remember meticulously going over mailing list and collecting vpatches and sigs, then correlating them to what mod6 had, then ... etc. etc. i suspect that there's some reason for why they are missing but i don't remember what it is. i suspect that it has something to do with regrinds t
phf: hat happened at some point?
mod6: phf: if you're talking about 'malleus_mikehearnificarum' and 'programmable-versionstring' then you'd be correct. they were reground, and never resigned by alf.
asciilifeform: hm.
mod6: in fact, i think you said that you wouldn't sign them.
asciilifeform: waiwat
asciilifeform: link?
mod6: i dunno, it was back in the day.
asciilifeform: i'd like to know if i actually said such a thing
mod6: im not gonna worry about it. i went through some pain to get them exactly reground correctly, you checked them (iirc) and said they were "correct." but that was pretty much the end of it.
asciilifeform: i will sign.
mod6: i don't have time to dig it up. but.. i might be mis-remembering
asciilifeform: where was that hopper phf made, again
BingoBoingo: I think I vaguely remember. Something, something, makework, may have been argument
mod6: anyway, please, check out the reground ones, make sure they look good, and if you feel good about 'em, send me a sig :]
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160910/#520 << sounds good, actually.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160911/#11 << mice come back to biteche!
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-11: [00:18:10] <asciilifeform> hm.
phf: asciilifeform: just wotpaste'em to channel
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/extracting-and-hashing-bitcoin-block-headers << CH - Extracting and Hashing Bitcoin Block Headers ☟︎
mircea_popescu: phf does a111 autoprocess patches from chan or do you just do by hand ?
phf: mircea_popescu: i just do it by hand ☟︎
mircea_popescu: a very greedy patchatron might be a good idea eventually.
phf: true, but right now the number of patches is so low i go out of my way to grab anything i can find anyway
mod6: this is a good thing.
mod6: it takes time to read through these things and validate their correctness.
mircea_popescu: honestly, i think the people who abstract-and-code are idiots anyway. first, you do it by hand. then, you automate what you did. this way a) end up with something that actually works, and even without much design skill is well designed, by mother nature's help ; b) avoiud the trap of "i spent five engineer hours to save myself thirty three minutes of secretarial work over the course of ten years." ☟︎
BingoBoingo: THe ability to do 30 continuous minutes of secretarial work ought to be up there with the ability to load a half ton of topsoil into a truck as a bare minimum requirement for employabilitit
mircea_popescu: and of course the "256 bytes that changed the world" thing referenced from one raddcliffe's "codesupository" blogspot blog is gone.
mircea_popescu: "It is important to note that it is possible that instead of finding the magic ID, you instead find a bunch of zero bytes. In my own copy of the blockchain I have encountered a case when parsing through a .dat file, where the header is missing. Instead there is a large block of zero bytes and then the blockchain picks up again later. I don't know why/how this occurs." ☟︎
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539363 << i could've sworn there was a hopper i could drop into ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 00:40 phf: mircea_popescu: i just do it by hand
mircea_popescu: i vaguely recall this too, but maybe it was a temporary thing
asciilifeform: possibly.
mircea_popescu: of course !#patch http://blabla works
asciilifeform: waiwat
asciilifeform: that exists ?
asciilifeform: what's it connected to ?
mircea_popescu: no i mean. ~could work~.
asciilifeform: ah - yes.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539371 << such cosmic ray ! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 00:47 mircea_popescu: "It is important to note that it is possible that instead of finding the magic ID, you instead find a bunch of zero bytes. In my own copy of the blockchain I have encountered a case when parsing through a .dat file, where the header is missing. Instead there is a large block of zero bytes and then the blockchain picks up again later. I don't know why/how this occurs."
asciilifeform: i keep forgetting what knobs the heathens lack
asciilifeform: in this case, evidently, '--verifyall'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, the code he's using (bitcoin qt! dude's a total eth-dork) is really shitty.
mircea_popescu: "Another important note needs to be made here. The block-length is *not* equal to the amount of data in the block! Meaning, after you read the last entry in a block, that offset often can be, and will be, *less* than the total length of the block reported. Your parser must take this into account and seek the file pointer to wherever the next location in the file is indicated by the block length value." << another example
mircea_popescu: "does this mean media wastage ?" "wut"
asciilifeform: this is illustrated in my blkcut.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: blkcutting is O(N).
asciilifeform: because tards.
mircea_popescu: kinda why i'm reading through this spec ben_vulpes dug up.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539361 << aaah ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 00:36 deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/extracting-and-hashing-bitcoin-block-headers << CH - Extracting and Hashing Bitcoin Block Headers
asciilifeform: binary-types rocks.
mircea_popescu: yea
asciilifeform: i learned of it from naggum.
asciilifeform: it is interesting because it illustrates the CORRECT way to do 'formats'
asciilifeform: i.e. to specify the relationship between the bits and the logical meanings thereof.
asciilifeform: ada has similar mechanism also.
asciilifeform: after learning this, orcish code where SEPARATE 'eaters' and 'shitters' for binary turdolade are seen, turns the stomach.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes gives a marvelous example of binary-types usage in subj link.
mircea_popescu: this guy is pissing me off.
asciilifeform: who the hell is ratcliff anyway
mircea_popescu: one of.
asciilifeform: snore of an article. ~everything in there is easier found in the code.
asciilifeform: who, i wonder, is the intended reader of this.
mircea_popescu: no but his considerations on the subject of time!
mircea_popescu: his oppinion
mircea_popescu: motherfucker...
asciilifeform: where's that
mircea_popescu: grep for "government work"
asciilifeform: 'I do not know why Satoshi did not decide to include a transaction time stamp. It's only 4 bytes, and it is a valuable piece of information that people really need access to. For now, all you can do is use the timestamp of the block and hope that's close enough for government work. And by government work, I mean close enough for tax and accounting purposes. Since the value of bitcoin is very volatile and can go up and down by mas
asciilifeform: sive amounts over a short period of time, clearly this coarse and inaccurate timing value is woefully inadequate.' << ?
mircea_popescu: few paragraphs around there yes
asciilifeform: i dun get it. what would be the use of a tx timestamp
mircea_popescu: anyway. all these variable length integers are a fucking eyesore.
asciilifeform: they certainly have 0 justification in bitcoin
asciilifeform: srsly, to reduce space taken up by 32-bit nulls
asciilifeform: is all they really do there.
mircea_popescu: make a pile of fixed output hashes, construct a variable length format to hold it all
mircea_popescu: what fucking school of retards is this.
asciilifeform: it isn't pgp where you might have a 16384-bit key or a 1024 etc.
mircea_popescu: and moreover, if you DO variable length, then do proper fucking variable length. everywhere.
asciilifeform: even THERE ordinary run-length compressor would solve same problem
asciilifeform: without cluttering up the bottom logic layer.
asciilifeform: think about it.
mircea_popescu: no, i know./
asciilifeform: why do folks force compression into bignumatron ?
asciilifeform: quite the mystery to asciilifeform .
mircea_popescu: because they were raised by a single woman married to a single man in a house with a single room, one chair and one teacup.
asciilifeform: eh plenty of functional folk grew up in single-hut, single-cow etc. pre-ww2 ru etc.
mircea_popescu: yes ; but the ones that didn't turn out functional didn't because of it ; the ones that did, they did in spite of it.
mircea_popescu: "plenty of smart people on ivy league campuses" "sure, and plenty of happy jews in auschwitz."
asciilifeform: auschwitz had > notable graduates as harvard, in the period it existed.
asciilifeform: jack tramiel, for instance.
mircea_popescu: so i hear.
asciilifeform: you can tell something interesting about modern usa that it fellates steve jobs but not jack tramiel.
mircea_popescu: wasn't on tv.
asciilifeform: tramiel is sorta like that cartoon co. manager mircea_popescu described in old article
asciilifeform: what was his name...
asciilifeform: the 'not sexy but works' fella
mircea_popescu: quimby
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: him.
asciilifeform: $s tramiel
a111: 15 results for "tramiel", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tramiel
asciilifeform: ^ looks like we had thread.
asciilifeform: to revisit this wonderful digression, i've long suspected that the notion that 'great conditions' are great for output, and 'harsh gulag' - not, is not exactly true.
asciilifeform: consider the sharashka folk, etc.
mircea_popescu: what are you talking about. it is exactly false.
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg
mircea_popescu: worst thing you can do for kids is make it easy for them
asciilifeform: vs modern american engineer who gets 28 flavours of ice cream in company cafe.
mircea_popescu: holy shit apparently this guy's cca 2014 windoze prb stores blockchain in 128mb files, 100+ of them by that point ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: after the leveldb thing aha.
mircea_popescu: nuts.
mircea_popescu: iirc windows doesn't handle more than 64k files per directory ? neh ?
asciilifeform: 575 of these by now.
mircea_popescu: !~calc 2*16 * 128 * 2*20
asciilifeform: ( i still have one of these things going in the dungeon )
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 2*16 * 128 * 2*20 = 163840
mircea_popescu: !~calc 2**16 * 128 * 2**20
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 2**16 * 128 * 2**20 = 8796093022208
mircea_popescu: so hard limit at 8tb ?
asciilifeform: seems like.
mircea_popescu: but this is ... insane ?
asciilifeform: sanity on winblows is precious as rubies.
asciilifeform: ain't much of it to be had.
mod6: more, i'd say.
mircea_popescu: rubies aren't that rare.
mod6: ya
mircea_popescu: a good fuck is ~= equivalent.
mircea_popescu: "Binary-types is *not* helpful in reading files with variable bit-length code-words, such as most compressed file formats. It will basically only work with file-formats based on 8-bit bytes (octets). Also, at this time no floating-point types are supported out of the box. The ieee-floats library might be useful."
mircea_popescu: aaahem.
asciilifeform as a small kid thought that laser ~demanded~ ruby, and that this was the reason why there were not lasers everywhere in orc household
mircea_popescu: we were just wondering why, right ? well, here's a coincidental why : this way, it dun work natively with lisp
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not especially hard to bolt on variable fields.
asciilifeform: ( perhaps next lunchtime project for ben_vulpes )
mircea_popescu: i'm an anthropologist! i look for these things!
asciilifeform: the seeker - will find. aha.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ingress and egress, if you wish. though they refer to entrance and exit by willing agents under their own power.
asciilifeform bbl, meat
pete_dushenski: shinohai, phf, ben_vulpes would one of you gents be do kind as to pass along a signed copy of the wp-mp pkg ?
pete_dushenski: so kind*
pete_dushenski: "A U.S. government safety agency on Friday urged all consumers to stop using Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phones, which are prone to catch fire, and top airlines globally banned their use during flights.
pete_dushenski: " << safety first kids
pete_dushenski: usg.aapl badly needs the negative press for its primary opponent as iphone 7 plus is set to launch with ~no useful upgrades other than double-lensed camera.
pete_dushenski: how convenient.
pete_dushenski: "Pence and his wife, Karen, reported adjusted gross income over the 10 years ranging from about $113,000 last year to over $187,000 in 2009, while the effective state and federal tax rate ranged from a low of just over 10 percent in 2013 to a high of 16.5 percent in 2014, the figures show." << in other news, this is not a bad tax rate for a us middle classman from indiana, really. vp pence is either a
pete_dushenski: donation machine or a write-off machine.
pete_dushenski: for comparison, "Clinton's running mate, U.S. Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, along with his wife, Anne Holton, released 10 years of tax returns at the same time in August. They paid a federal effective tax rate of 20.3 percent on income of about $313,000 in 2015."
pete_dushenski: http://archive.is/J86hJ << speaking of problems chez one infinite loop drive, "Apple changed the focus of the project, shifting from an emphasis on designing and producing an automobile to building out the underlying technology for an autonomous vehicle."
pete_dushenski: if this isn't pure carcoin 2.0 except with "underlying autonomous technology" instead of altcoin 2.0 "underlying blockchain technology", i don't know what is. top kek.
pete_dushenski: "we realised that we have no business in bitcoin/auto industry so we've elected to take the easier road of pretending that our deep reserves of offshore cash can be used for anything other than mattress stuffing. if you don't mind, we're just going to plug our ears now LALALALALALA"
phf: one floppy netbsd https://github.com/user340/fdgw2
phf: there was some old obscure reason why we ditched openbsd. i think it was driver support on that backup gardget
phf: err netbsd
asciilifeform: phf: aha, it wasn't 'we', it was just me.
asciilifeform: i even built trb for it.
asciilifeform: but it wouldn't pogo - not without writing the nand flash driver from ~scratch.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: shoot! yeah. wanted an ingest/??? pair but flubbed it.
ben_vulpes: the wisdom of asciilifeform's eat/shit is now apparent.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i just got the php off my hands, man
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: and it appears that i no longer have the original tgz. shinohai ?
mircea_popescu: in other news good god is anne holton ugyl.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: no worries
mircea_popescu: phf who ditched bdsm ?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> in other news good god is anne holton ugyl. << omg ugh. yah, she's beat.
mod6: ben_vulpes has signed all the patches currently available at the foundation: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/9z89i/?raw=true
mod6: his seals have been placed with the others in: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/seal
mod6: damnit, ignore that url ^
mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/seals/
mod6: is the one ^
pete_dushenski: !~later tell thestringpuller sorry for the delay, fire over the caddy pics when ready!
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: still not clear why it's a 'dilemma' but perhaps time will tell.
pete_dushenski: http://takimag.com/article/life_de_bois_theodore_dalrymple/print#axzz4JvSqDyZi << and now, your moment of langue de bois, fresh from the world of usg.med
pete_dushenski: buffer 3
pete_dushenski: lol
pete_dushenski: g'nite y'all
BingoBoingo: !!up wyrdmantis
deedbot: wyrdmantis voiced for 30 minutes.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-10#1539132 << hm can you point to an example? couldn't find one ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-10 03:58 mircea_popescu: Framedragger log rendition of jhv includes >; and > in the url ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: thanks for writing that design document.. http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-118965 (nothing new i guess, but just a request for clarification so to speak, and trying to argue both sides, to an extent)
mircea_popescu: ahhh such lovely weather ; sunny, balmy...
mircea_popescu: such a pity argentina is inhabited by argentines.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160910/#217 < example.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-10: [03:36:56] <jhvh1> mircea_popescu: Hrotsvitha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrotsvitha>; Hrotsvitha von Gandersheim - Women's History - About.com: <http://womenshistory.about.com/od/medgermansaints/p/hrotsvitha.htm>; Hrotsvitha of Gandersheim – FREE Hrotsvitha of Gandersheim ...: <http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3446400099.html>
shinohai: !~later tell pete_dushenski Sure I can put you a signed copy of wp-mp up on my site if you still need.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: an' honestly, tis a pleasure to have who to write such stuff for ; far exceeds any sort of inconvenience in the writing.
mircea_popescu: then again i dun think i'm the only one.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other lulz,
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1737 * 2.4 * 1.5 * 60 = 375192.00000000006
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: 1737 * 2.4 * 1.5 * 60 = 375192.00000000006
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1737 * 2.4 * 1.5 * 60
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1737 * 2.4 * 1.5 * 60 = 375192.00000000006
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ingest is angloabomination born 1500s ; technically it'd be exgest but incomprehensible because barbarians not systematical. anyway, ingest comes from gestus, gerere, which means to carry ; hence gestant female ie pregnant and so on.
mircea_popescu: i suppose ingest/excrete would be the english dysfunctional-but-best pair.
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1lWb
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in foreign news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/c56131990e0970f96eb97df6b794ef42/tumblr_mu97cfMTD41qewacoo4_r2_1280.jpg
shinohai: I wonder if those turtles are infected with Baracktrema obamai
mircea_popescu: http://sameatschildren.tumblr.com/post/45962915522/do-it-now-guide-to-proper-bra-fit-and-measuring << not altogether a bad guide ; but the part where even usians figure out their everything is practically useless, often harmful and in any case shouldn't be used might make it into a BingoBoingo xtend ?
mircea_popescu: mostly for teh lulz.
Framedragger: [oh shit, mkj suddenly went from 16gb disk space available to 0; bear with me]
Framedragger wonders if it's the trilema-following bot army. will check
shinohai: !!up Medow
deedbot: Medow voiced for 30 minutes.
Medow: $register C42CCE7D70E6BE1E03CF74EFE21B028A61FD2B37
shinohai: Medow: do it again but replace `$` with !!
mircea_popescu: hm i thought the wiki got updated.
Medow: !!register C42CCE7D70E6BE1E03CF74EFE21B028A61FD2B37
mircea_popescu: Framedragger toldja.
deedbot: Import failed for C42CCE7D70E6BE1E03CF74EFE21B028A61FD2B37.
mircea_popescu: Medow did you upload key to sks servers ?
Medow: No , i didn't
Framedragger: (crazy. i'm dumping the contents of vim buffer through the literal ssh terminal, by hand, 'cause i can't save them and i need to. good times!)
mircea_popescu: ah do that then
shinohai: I got him covered on that mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: cool
asciilifeform: happy terrorism day, gentlemen.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger this is where wizards learn their wizardry craft! BY FIRE.
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-118967
mircea_popescu: you know it pings me nao automatically alf!
asciilifeform: neato.
mircea_popescu: trinque made it subscribeable.
shinohai: mircea_popescu Framedragger this is where wizards learn their wizardry craft! BY FIRE. <<< never a truer statement has been uttered.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: no objections!! this is good stuff. can't see home partition under `mount` - disk subsystem appears to have failed. (so unfortunately may not be due to bots - yet; OR.. things are even more ominous, in which case, fun!)
Framedragger: so apparently the hosting provider which i've been paying since 2008 without sweat just went down. like, i can't load their homepage and client area. they better have a good explanation for entire cluster going down
Framedragger: gonna learn to host tmsr stuff separately from $random_websites_for_relatives_etc , too; collateral damage much
Framedragger: if they send me a letter saying "our network got fucked due to ddos initiated at your ip" imma laugh
asciilifeform: in other noose, boeck delivers!1111 >> https://threatpost.com/number-of-devices-sharing-private-crypto-keys-up-sharply/120379 << guess of what there is 0 mention, etc.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/faRIr << and somehow we missed this gem. 'Trading in the stock of medical device manufacturer St. Jude Medical was halted Friday afternoon after a dramatic drop in its value. That drop was triggered by news of alleged vulnerabilities in the company's cardiac care devices. The vulnerability was disclosed not in a report by the company, but by security researchers partnered with Muddy Waters Capital, an investment fi
asciilifeform: rm that had "shorted" St. Jude's stock on the information in order to profit from a drop in the stock's value. The researchers at the security firm MedSec chose to take this route to disclosure, MedSec CEO Justine Bone said, to "ensure that St. Jude Medical responds appropriately and with urgency." The partnership with a short-seller is a fundamental departure from the established approach of responsible disclosure normally taken by
asciilifeform: researchers. But it also represents an approach that bypasses the sort of legal maneuverings and threats, suppression of information, and inaction that have been experienced by researchers who have discovered vulnerabilities in other products. Researchers who discovered a vulnerability in Volkswagen electronic engine locks, for example, were forced to withhold a paper for two years through a court injunction filed by the automaker in
asciilifeform: 2012.'
asciilifeform: betcha usg is as we speak in the process of writing the ban on 'hackinsider trading' or whatever claptrap.
Framedragger: [lol, massive outage of servers (http://gedimai.iv.lt/?id=493) - "we hereby inform that presently the majority of our network nodes are experiencing issues [read, are +/- down]; therefore the servers behind said nodes may be unreachable." i'll bitchslap them after they recover ☟︎
Framedragger: ]
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: but yes, there's ~no application one can work on that is going to be as seriously high demand as doing stuff here. people go through entire careers in corporate computer science without ever encountering the sort of omgwtfbbq you get for two week's stay.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu and everyone, so just in case it was unclear, everything to do with mkj.lt is down 'cause (apparently, as of now) the network is down. cause as of yet unknown, as they've confirmed when i called. the system also helpfully informs me that server is using 64.50 GB out of available 10.00 GB, and the free disk space available ("-54.50 GB") is less than the recommended free space amount. things shall be migrated, i will however wait fo
Framedragger: r them to recover, and meanwhile i'm off to a punk concert. ttyl.
Framedragger: (and ftr hosting a parliament candidate's website on the same server as something to do with tmsr may have been a choice too curious.)
mircea_popescu: aite.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539584 << lel even that link now seems dead. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 15:14 Framedragger: [lol, massive outage of servers (http://gedimai.iv.lt/?id=493) - "we hereby inform that presently the majority of our network nodes are experiencing issues [read, are +/- down]; therefore the servers behind said nodes may be unreachable." i'll bitchslap them after they recover
mircea_popescu: and meanwhile i'm chasing some obscure comment blockquoting bug
asciilifeform: luke-jr (~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr) has joined #trilema << l0l! he's still in business ?!
mircea_popescu: in other lulz & assorted "daily wtf that never happened on the bitcoin network and if it did it's mp's fault anyway", a86c3b4efb1be5862dff6740a16cae83a785e78eb8a81b49c6f3337ca8e0b1cc being high-S got malleated by da3008e8b15d36343bc07c05cf107a7b6d29df0467901401410f8fe0d8c76488 which however... doesn't actually exist. ☟︎
shinohai: O.o
mircea_popescu: lemme know if any of you turn it up anywhere.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/bitcointalk-database-in-the-wild-for-some-time-now-new-forum-software-years-late/ << Qntra - BitcoinTalk Database In The Wild For Some Time Now, New Forum Software Years Late
mircea_popescu: otherwise feel free to you know, stage mock debates/legal proceedings between payment processor ("we sent the txn as contractually obligated") and contracting firm ("we hired you to do the payments, do them") etc etc.
mircea_popescu: the point ~everyone, from the propellerhead ethidiots to yours truly, prefers to not observe the fact that bitcoin can not be part of economic activity as is, because unspecified machinery with unpredictable behaviours are exactly not the substance of contractual agreements. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: there can by definition exist no meeting of the minds on such shaky, arbitrarily shapeshifting terrains.
asciilifeform: eh hey we observed that the bloody thing doesn't reliably work, eons ago
mircea_popescu: yes yes.
mircea_popescu: but then happily continued to act as if it did.
mircea_popescu: for this money, elliot also observed his pussy crushing doesn't work. went right back to it.
asciilifeform mutters something about crash landing on island with clitler
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539596 << fwiw, as far as i can tell, my boxes never saw these. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 16:15 mircea_popescu: in other lulz & assorted "daily wtf that never happened on the bitcoin network and if it did it's mp's fault anyway", a86c3b4efb1be5862dff6740a16cae83a785e78eb8a81b49c6f3337ca8e0b1cc being high-S got malleated by da3008e8b15d36343bc07c05cf107a7b6d29df0467901401410f8fe0d8c76488 which however... doesn't actually exist.
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: either of them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, ok. public internets did however, eg https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/a86c3b4efb1be5862dff6740a16cae83a785e78eb8a81b49c6f3337ca8e0b1cc/ ☟︎
asciilifeform: now that's interesting.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would you care to reveal what you transmitted these with ?
mircea_popescu: notrly.
asciilifeform: well then.
mircea_popescu: but ftr, i only transmitted the first.
mircea_popescu: the 2nd appeared out of unknown parts.
asciilifeform: 2nd from malleatron.
shinohai: Neither show up on the blockchain.info turd
mircea_popescu: anyway ; you probably should have received a copy.
asciilifeform: as with my 5btc leesedol bet a while back, and 1,000,001 folks' other examples.
mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/search/a86c3b4efb1be5862dff6740a16cae83a785e78eb8a81b49c6f3337ca8e0b1cc << sees one, not the other.
asciilifeform: ( i assume mircea_popescu sent out a high-S for scientific purposes )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc 'blockchain.info' rejects all high-S.
asciilifeform: at the door.
Framedragger: [things are back up. also, doing ssh stuff via shitphone sometimes worx.]
Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160911/#199 << ah, scheiße. unfortunately fix involves rewriting part of the log viewer which is based on regex. (to be clear, my fault entirely, of course). will be done - but not instantaneously, am afraid. thanks.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-11: [12:23:35] <mircea_popescu> Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160910/#217 < example.
asciilifeform: incidentally, is anybody other than Framedragger currently following the http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document conversation ? ben_vulpes ? trinque ?
asciilifeform: jurov ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: last reply is queued (contains phuctor link) and probably won't show up in trinque's feeder.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: re. "Enemy can spam the channel but each of his packets can be rejected in ~constant time~" - ahh! that clarifies matters for me. will comment on blog later by PC. ttyl
phf: asciilifeform: i'll read it once the dust settles
asciilifeform: phf: it's more or less deadlocked.
mircea_popescu: regex. guaranteed rewrite. every time.
mircea_popescu: as the australian slut once said to her boyfriend, "roses are red, violets are blue, i'm at mp's house cheating you you eh."
asciilifeform: for anyone who, like phf, has been 'waiting for dust to settle', here's (imho) ~impartial summary: mircea_popescu demands one particular aspect of correct gossiptron: repudiability; and is willing to newjersyize ('best-effort') everything else. asciilifeform demands that the entire thing have strength on par with the basis crypto. mircea_popescu points out that this building demands an escherian, if you will, brick. asciilifeform - d
asciilifeform: isputes this.
asciilifeform: currently it would appear that each is doomed to write own proggy...
mircea_popescu: well, no! here's my version :
mircea_popescu: the matter in dispute is how to handle authentification. one solution is decrypt-challenge. the other solution is signed-hello. i reject signed-hello for a number of reasons, both practical and theoretical, which alf doesn't seem to think much of but which i am satisfied are sufficient to sink any attempt to implement a gossipd on sh. alf purports to reject dc on similar grounds, except i can't find anything like an argument
mircea_popescu: of either kind in his production ; nevertheless he also claims dc is sufficient to sink any attempt to implemnet a gossipd.
mircea_popescu: anyway, discussion of specifix there plox, lest we manage to lose the ~only benefit so far, which is to say that nonsensical as it is, at least discussion is all in one place
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i drop this here in attempt to coax the lazy folk to join us on your www.
mircea_popescu: the silent are not necessarily thereby lazy! mebbe they're trying to understand the otherwise rather complex an' intricate matter in discussion. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: it's been what, two days ? people need time to think.
asciilifeform: hopefully.
mircea_popescu: this said, i see absolutely no problem whatsoever implementing trb nodes on sign-hello.
asciilifeform: i will add that, despite the ~total impasse, this has been the most enjoyable public dialogue i've partaken in, in quite some time.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary, it's how i'd do it too.
mircea_popescu: and for the purveyors of domestic bliss, http://66.media.tumblr.com/a858a8f1b81fa051e6b49f2003f305e5/tumblr_nhytfvUjLo1qecl7ro1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: incidentally, i must also add that there are potentially other solutions ( e.g., zkp auth.) that do not reduce to 'sh' or 'dc'.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539646 << aha. I'm certain all of us have been reading the exchange. (I hope some made use of !!subscribe to do so) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 17:21 mircea_popescu: the silent are not necessarily thereby lazy! mebbe they're trying to understand the otherwise rather complex an' intricate matter in discussion.
trinque will join the discussion when he has something that hasn't been said, and not simply to "make voice heard" or "join the debate"
trinque: asciilifeform: ^
ben_vulpes: it is the most difficult design problem i've seen and i'm still working to wrap my head around both of your positions
mircea_popescu: gossipd requires time.
asciilifeform: trinque: fair'nuff.
asciilifeform: my exhortation here was 'say what has not been said,' not 'moar dakka!' (or however these go.)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i am quite curious re how you would summarize the point of contention in subj thread. ☟︎
asciilifeform: (is it apparent to the naked eye what it is ?)
asciilifeform: unrelatedly,
asciilifeform: as a byproduct of the mega-thread on mircea_popescu's www, i invented a potentially useful item, that probably ought to be shared
asciilifeform: -- an 'all or nothing transform' (term of art) that, unlike, e.g., rivest's, does not rely on the strength of any hash, nor symmetric cipher, nor imposes algebraic structure.
asciilifeform: i'ma post it once i get a couple of spare hours in which to write it up.
mircea_popescu: ha! /me showered, came out with two ideas : an update for article ; and "i wonder if one could come up with a way to do all-or-nothing transforms that are freeform"
mircea_popescu: epic.
asciilifeform: it is a brain-meltingly simple algo, somewhat like 'v'; and inverting the transform with partial info is provably equivalent to halting problem.
asciilifeform: i must wonder now if mircea_popescu came out with same item i did.
mircea_popescu: nah i had no workable implementation.
asciilifeform: it remains to be demonstrated rigorously that mine does the job as claimed. which is why i haven't posted it quite yet.
asciilifeform: but yes, it is 'freeform' in the sense where no algebraicism (as in rivest's, or the popular OAEP) is imposed, and the output can be as long and entropic as one likes.
mircea_popescu will gladly read
mod6: <+asciilifeform> incidentally, is anybody other than Framedragger currently following the http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document conversation ? ben_vulpes ? trinque ? << i have.
mod6: well, looks im a bit behind now.
mod6 catches up
danielpbarron: !!subscribe http://danielpbarron.com/comments/feed/
deedbot: danielpbarron subscribed to http://danielpbarron.com/comments/feed/
deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2016/its-better-to-rape-than-to-divorce/ << Daniel P. Barron - It’s better to rape than to divorce.
danielpbarron: !!subscribe http://bravetheworld.com/feed/
deedbot: danielpbarron subscribed to http://bravetheworld.com/feed/
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/hillary-clintons-twin-legs-buckle-where-twin-towers-fell/ << Qntra - Hillary Clinton's Twin Legs Buckle Where Twin Towers Fell
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/09/hillary-clintons-twin-legs-buckle-where-twin-towers-fell/ << Updated already!
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 429349 | Current Difficulty: 2.2075590833037228E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 429407 | Next Difficulty In: 58 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours, 5 minutes, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 598.13, vol: 4934.09455187 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 597.744, vol: 5474.23216 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 605.19, vol: 8992.33187469 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 595.4985, vol: 458276.32550000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 603.22, vol: 809.74956593 | Volume-weighted last average: 595.746528034
phf: asciilifeform: do you by chance have schematics for your model f controller reimplementation? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/7e448afc1e995100d0baf056b881a336/tumblr_ncrdooTK3R1rgqpl0o1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also, rivest's scheme is ordered, i was thinking of an order-indifferent k-1 of k packets sorta thing ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Updated again, prognosis is dim: http://qntra.net/2016/09/hillary-clintons-twin-legs-buckle-where-twin-towers-fell/
mircea_popescu: hey, wait, i thought they were going to nailgun the other one!!11eleventy
BingoBoingo: Nature has its own nailguns too!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539690 << i used cornall's ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 21:39 phf: asciilifeform: do you by chance have schematics for your model f controller reimplementation?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539692 << that'd be the exact opposite of 'all or nothing', neh? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 21:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also, rivest's scheme is ordered, i was thinking of an order-indifferent k-1 of k packets sorta thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what i mean is, iirc rivest just puts key in last packet. there's no reason to have a "last" packet ; why not "one of"
mircea_popescu: thinking being that if the all-xored-with-key packet is specifically known, observer has some advantage in detecting underperforming rng ; but if it's not known then not so much.
asciilifeform: i suspect this is the basic fear that motivates whiteners
asciilifeform: 'they might see my shitrng'
mircea_popescu: very likely.
mircea_popescu: not in defense of shit rngs. but why specify something that needn't be.
asciilifeform: the basic error is same tho
mircea_popescu: hm ?
asciilifeform: it is foolish to design for 'what if my rng silently fails'. it is a 'jesus bolt' failure ☟︎
asciilifeform: as on choppers.
mircea_popescu: this is true. but it's quite sensible to design for "least possible rules"
asciilifeform: or how plane is not designed to do any particular constructive thing should the wings fall off.
asciilifeform: all emphasis re wings is on ~not falling off~.
mircea_popescu: actually modern plane is designed to fly if 3 engines fall off etc
asciilifeform: but 0 wings.
asciilifeform: brb
mircea_popescu: but anyway, i suppose this is neither here nor there.
phf: asciilifeform: ah cool, i think you might've linked that page before
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-13#1163124 was the original thread ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-06-13 03:39 asciilifeform: http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb-web/ibm-capsense-usb.html << anyone here own one of these ?