mod6: <+shinohai> It's like a colossal shit that won't flush. << haha
gribble: Current Blocks: 421364 | Current Difficulty: 2.1349250110751337E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 423359 | Next Difficulty In: 1995 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 9 hours, 20 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
jurov: "Masha Market - Everything for health - Tea, Vodka, Books"
thestringpuller: "I've noticed a trend with these guys. They're too dumb to even know they are clowns. Well I guess they're focused on the present and not the future. Money counts for these guys. He's nothing but a banker selling btc." and has reply >> "Dunning–Kruger effect" It's odd reading comments like that on reddit.
thestringpuller: Also they are nailing the doors shut on Ether tomorrow until "clear winner": "As a Poloniex customer, you do not need to do anything. The migration will occur automatically, and your full balance of Ethereum will be transferred to the winning chain. Keep in mind that as we near the fork, we will be temporarily disabling deposits and withdrawals in preparation for the migration process. Trading will continue to operate as normal during
☟︎ mircea_popescu: so the way deculturation works is, derp comes to tmsr, makes statements, which belie assumptions, which are explicitly stated BY someone in tmsr for the first time in derp's experience, and then rejected explicitly. sometimes a cause is presented, but this is not particularly "better" than none being offered. the burden is on the derp ANYWAY.
mircea_popescu: obviously, most derps are, owing to fundamental genetic insufficiency, unable to handle the plain statement of their assumptions. these, we call cattle.
mircea_popescu: a few of them, recently called the "hopefuls" but otherwise simply the incarnation of evil, are capable of handling the statement of their assumptions, but are unwilling to separate themselves from what "they want", which is usually stupid but that's not something they're prepared to face.
mircea_popescu: this is always and everywhere personal failure, sometimes a forced mistake (like the female's universal "wanting kids to survive", which is stupid but nevertheless part of her ample array of genital curses)
mircea_popescu: something that may appear as a subcase but i believe is not (not that the dispute is all that relevant) and in any case is more numerous is the jwz : the fellow that "just wants to" keep right on being lazy.
mircea_popescu: laziness is a natural want, and unavoidable. (no, wanting your children to survive is not natural, but perverse, and a major part of what makes kant's timber crooked.)
mircea_popescu: so to sum up, the process is more like washing than anything else. gunk removal.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller and if there's two chains surviving, customer gets one poloniex gets to keep the other ?
mircea_popescu: not that it's much of a concern, there's exactly ONE customer doing eth on poloniex. but as a theoretical thing.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "In addition, for those interested in keeping their tokens from the losing blockchain as a keepsake, we will support a one-time withdrawal of the deprecated tokens, provided that the losing chain is still functional when you attempt a withdrawal. Specific instructions on how to access your tokens on the old chain to follow."
thestringpuller: If shit really hits the fan with the hardfork, the doors are nailed shut indefinitely.
thestringpuller: shinohai: they added steem to poloniex. shit is bubbling. i wish there was enough liquidity to go short. this is the ultimate bubble.
jurov: logs were prolly decultured
mircea_popescu sees in the scrollback that the fact of there being no log has already been mentioned :D
mircea_popescu: anyway, the code || ideology parallel should be pretty obvious. yes people run other [from their wot] people's text, but this is neither obligatory nor particularly encouraged. on the contrary, with ideology as with code as with "wot maintenance best practices" and as with any other text, heterogeny is the key to victory.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, since i apparently fell in a barrel of reading old history, fellow describing "the cruelty" of mehmed 2 : "for some books stolen from his secretary he punished an entire village to be moved to asia ; for a stolen watermelon he took the life of a suspected janissary, and he did not back down from killing with his own hand the most adored being in the harem, who had shackled him with her exceptional beauty to the p
mircea_popescu: this item is not found in anglo historiography apparently.
mircea_popescu: but the principle of the thing. "if you love her set her free" apparently means something else in ottoman turkish.
mircea_popescu would have simply sold the girl, but then again /me is no turk.
shinohai: Logged 7-19-2016 08:39 +thestringpuller shinohai: they added steem to poloniex. shit is bubbling. i wish there was enough liquidity to go short. this is the ultimate bubble. <<<only teh American exchanges I see
mircea_popescu: you should read the poetry of the time, they were pretty drunk on a sort of adolescent male idealism perhaps best rendered as sportsfan-hiphop in today's terms.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and yet they gave the nobles caftans, ie, "here's this holy piece of clothing, worth so much more than the fabric and cut to you because i'm giving it"
mircea_popescu: with a little training they'll be more of a tool of state than the dubious religion
mircea_popescu: (mehmed, like most other sultans, was a bit of an atheist)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so. culture makes more sense, on average, than any bit of engineering.
mircea_popescu: the basic, and really only, rule of hermeneutics is : that then you've understood a text when, far from its shortcomings appearing inexplicable errors, they become the actual pillars upon which the damned thing is constructed, and what originally seemed to you sensible and structural takes its true place as accidental.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as "why is e < 3??" "no reason" in nature, and from there in engineering. there isn't really such a thing in society, and from there in culture.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except who did any political business among the baths and wet tits ?! not really how it worked ; presuming the girl's not accepted back in... which is perhaps where the rub is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here, beyazit ordered paintings made for his father by bellini (sent from venice at sultan's request) sold in the bazaar and enough with this dumb shit.
mircea_popescu: truly odd this theory, that they'd sell the paintings but not the girls.
gribble: Current Blocks: 421426 | Current Difficulty: 2.1349250110751337E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 423359 | Next Difficulty In: 1933 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 12 hours, 48 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
deedbot: webbyz voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: iKant voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: webbyz may not $up deedbot
mircea_popescu never likes the results, but perseveres reading orlov linked material.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno about his nonsense. every (admittedly, large, expensive) boat i've been in had detachable pannels. you first take the shit OFF, then fuck with the pipes gauges etc in the normal manner. yes it takes 3x as long as if you were doing house plumbing, but that's about it.
mircea_popescu: engineering took a sharp turn to sanity sometime in the 80s wrt to this sort of "vacuum spherical chicken" issue.
mircea_popescu: to quote : "Boat plumbing systems are virtually never designed with ease of maintenance in mind; mostly they are an afterthought, not so much engineered as crammed together in any space that’s available. A very common problem is that working on them requires the use of tools—screwdrivers, channel locks, sockets with ratchets—but there is no room to wield these tools in the normal manner, and just about every operation r
mircea_popescu: equires one to become a contortionist. Another common problem is lack of space for both the arm (with which to work on things) and the head (with which to look at what you are doing), meaning that much of the work has to do be done “by Braille.”
mircea_popescu: this sounds very much like an item made pre 1980 than post 1990.
mircea_popescu: i also sailed proper sailboats ; which have no plumbing. under discussion here, both from the introduction of the article you quote, and from his "live in boat" general outlook, are pointedly NOT sailboats.
mircea_popescu: i also never attempted to live in my shoes, or judge shoes by how "livable in" they are.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, that's nonsense, no saving it. fuck, sailboat with plumbing ? wut ?
mircea_popescu: see, a sailboat, ie, the thing you run sail and rigging championships etc with ? that thing has no generator, because it's heavy. most have no engine either, except where legally required on occasion, and the presence of engine is disdained universally. etc.
mircea_popescu: best i can discern from the unexpected in this latest convo, he's trying to do something that makes no sense for the market, a sort of ostrich-camel of epic proportions.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no "practical instrument" that is the unworkable cross between a hammer and a screwdriver.
mircea_popescu: you may be interested ; but the market for "sailboat" is composed of people who already own say a race horse, or sponsor a speed racing team etc ; they're ready to spend by the million.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the market for "boathouse" is composed of people who already own townhouse in large town ; also prepared to spend by the million.
phf: sailboat != boat with sail
mircea_popescu: phf i have nfi what any of the terms mean as used, for the record. we're in plebeconfusionland.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the ibm example isn't so good. the sort of phenomena that were conquered to produce the 1k chickens 1950-1990 are very fucking different from the sort of phenomena the boat has to encounter,
mircea_popescu: and which has not produced any sort of improvement EVER!
mircea_popescu: for the record, the hull design style of the vikings STILL IS! to this day! the best, fastest and so on.
mircea_popescu: the improvement plastics and composites (current generation, EXPENSIVE!) offer over selected historical wood is marginal, if at all present.
mircea_popescu: nothing like the advantage doped silicone offers over old galene/lead whatevers.
mircea_popescu: people use plastic because cheaper plastic is cheaper than cheap wood, and there better.
mircea_popescu: expensive wood is not a case of "hey, x team can never win, cedar lol"
phf: nah, there was that other guy who built a computerized nomadic boat house (i think he started with a computerized recumbent bike in the 80s) and unlike orlol he actually documented his process very extensively
trinque: sounds like resigning to die, but then not having the dignity to eat the bullet
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: the latter
phf: well, it has both sail and diesel
phf: and the problem he was trying to solve is a lot closer to what you want to achieve, i.e. put lab on water, rather than recreate the lifestyle of late 6th century pirate nomads or whatever
☟︎ phf: with corresponding required capital investment
trinque: if you've reached the point where the world has beaten you back to being willing to live in a shipping container, why live?
☟︎☟︎ trinque: this guy's got a lab, what, to continue taking part in the same world he can't stand?
☟︎ phf: trinque: it's techno nomad, it's a thing. microship guy doesn't really try to solve same problem as orlol, it's all different people with personal interests and agendas that don't necessarily compose into a single stereotype
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:48 asciilifeform: iirc no one ever even ~tried~ the 'optimize for cost, survival boat' design prior.
mircea_popescu: far be itfrom me to insult your boyish dream of independence ; but let it be said that boats are boats and have been so for a long time now.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, recorded performance in both the time of venice owning the mediteranean and of portuguese empire in south china sea is not currently met by "performant" plastic boats.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look, there's nothing wrong with this principle in principle, but electric performance and hydrodynamic performance are not the same thing
mircea_popescu: look at tables of materials, comparing say young modulus and resistivity.
mircea_popescu: different phenomena, with the former much narrower for good physical reasons.
mircea_popescu: yes, wood makes a very poor cpu ; lead sulphide better ; silicone-germanium mix even better.
mircea_popescu: yet! wood makes fine boat ; some plastics cheaper, some composites somewhat better much more expensive. that's it.
mircea_popescu: it just seems so, until and unless you try to ... you know, emplace a cannon on it. "shit, it slides!!"
trinque: phf: there's a contradiction in someone that just wants to techmology, doesn't want to have to talk to anyone. Technology is a social enterprise; if social conditions are that bad, there are problems more fundamental than "can't have real computer" and such.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can calculate the energy cannon firings release per firing. that goes into melting your platform.
trinque: asciilifeform: you can select now
phf: trinque: you're making assumptions about these other people from what asciilifeform is saying
trinque: phf: mostly speaking to that, yes. this guy with the $maxint boat probably spends plenty of time off it too
phf: even orlol made a point a few times that he boats not because end of world, but because it's in his nomadic nature. that's distinctly not what asciilifeform is trying to do
trinque: could make sense. I'm a city creature.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's 'sailboat' is a racing yacht. orlov's is a (mostly) wind-powered antisocial survival capsule.
mircea_popescu: this is in no substantial way different from the "Reisistance through culture" of the soviet "intellectuals" aka schmucks.
mircea_popescu: no, has nothing to do with you. we're discussing boats not your person hiar.
mircea_popescu: no matter how sad you are, hair's not gonna jump off the scissors and back on your head ; no matter how emo you are, ocean still won't suddenly become a space allocator working as you want it to.
mircea_popescu: "can man live on mars" is engineering question ; "can man live on mars to escape lost love" is not.
phf: i think ascii would benefit best from building Nautilus. spacious, has lab, has pet, mostly as away from humans as possible, can defend itself from government and pirates. an entirely imaginary device
mircea_popescu: and the answer is that "yacht" only exists in mind of people too poor to have experience with the matter ; and otherwise it's a number of discrete items you're invited to pick amongst.
phf: well, it was victorian equivalent of fucktoy, mostly just lots of talking and showing off :>
mircea_popescu: did you poke nose in the sense of actually spending any sort of time on water ?
mircea_popescu: cuz the idea that you'd want to, in preference of, say, prison, is entirely shocking to me.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prison is right there with monastery. no people.
mircea_popescu: phf i have no recolection of this. testament to my interest in female anything aged 12, when i read jules verne.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform any serious one. and if they put you in general population, slit a throat or two, you'll get solitary and be happy.
phf: mircea_popescu: huh, i checked the plot and i was wrong, i was convinced that the protagonist was a lady
mircea_popescu: only land lubber could conceivably have this notion of the sea, as a sort of commodified milk in carton in fridge.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:48 asciilifeform: i suspect that mircea_popescu pisses on 'quidnon' for reasons which have nothing to do with hydrodynamics or metallurgy
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 16:05 mircea_popescu: cuz the idea that you'd want to, in preference of, say, prison, is entirely shocking to me.
mircea_popescu: no, no. on one hand, i see your approach to be fundamentally flawed, for lack of experience. this is a practical consideration. on the other hand, i suspect the flaw may not be accidental, but proceed from psychogenic cause, which is unclear to me.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's not a matter of how to make green a prime number. it's more of a matter of "how to make cryptographic rng work from a seed".
mircea_popescu: there's fundamental breakage underlying this being "conceptualized" as a problem in the first place.
mircea_popescu: hence the obvious connection to the adventures of captain nemo, as retold by verne.
mircea_popescu: if we'll colonize, it'll likely be venus before mars, and it'll likely be through planetary scale atmospheric intervention rather than "domes" wtf be those.
mircea_popescu: fiction may contain the emotions of the author, as a point for his compatriots to fixate on and navigate what otherwise is endless, meaningless, the sea of representation.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the transport vessel is a case of dome much in the way spontaneous healing of aids is a case of divine grace.
mircea_popescu: this isn't really how transport vessels work, except for a subset of young males.
mircea_popescu: the nuke sub is exactly an item with no utility or human interest, built under the PRETEXT of a "nuclear war", which is another fiction trope with not much real anchorage (as discussed in some trilema article).
mircea_popescu: upon practice, it turns out that... people dun wanna be there.
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want TO LIVE IN YOUR FUCKING CAR, communitng forever for the rest of your life, yes ?
mircea_popescu: EVEN IF i fucking armored it and added a thermoplonjon thing.
mircea_popescu: (they're lost in space, the histrion takes a shit, which flies towards the foil ; "accept Gusti in your life!")
mircea_popescu: "i swear it came out by itself! i didn't even push! it has a mind of its own! let's call him gusti!"
mircea_popescu: "look how it leaves... like a child his house.... go gusti! follow your dreams! you too could, one day, be president!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform women shit shits into the world, which follow their dreams and could one day be president. accept gusti in your life!
mircea_popescu: but to my eyes, it;s more a case of "i want impossible item" "why ?" "because of strange notion" "Wouldn't it be cheaper to..." "fu demigod, it is true humanity to do the impossible ; takes demigod to accept the obvious!"
mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely sure this is that different from that.
mircea_popescu: there was a technical counter there, as here ; it was abandoned upon your surrender. what was left were there as here "philosophical" let's say items, which lacking any proper substance can continue indefinitely.
mircea_popescu: why do you think it is a fundamental problem with only SOME things is beyond me.
mircea_popescu: if you're poor your only hope of survival is the swarm. this is a point of fact, and why peasants and hunters flocked to town to be poor there.
mircea_popescu: this is the definition of poverty, nude and rude : incapable of surviving on own.
mircea_popescu: demographically, rather than as a work of fiction, the push west was a push towards the highly concentrated san francisco.
mircea_popescu: do we revisit the egyptian household thread from last week ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-03 17:48 mircea_popescu: there's ONE thing the middle eastern guy has that white man can't replicate, and that is, a stable, and here i kid you not, a stable, of dozen+ pliable obedient females WITH offspring.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-03 17:44 mircea_popescu: for the anthropologist, god damned fascinating, they're like a family-sized snail building its conch.
mircea_popescu: you said "but still". that's denial. and worse - a disawoved denial.
mircea_popescu: oregon trail consisted of ? man and woman and grown children and the grown women's boyfriends and and and and a dog@!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it is or if it isn't is your choice to make ; but don't go around showing me your holy amulets that prevent leg breaking.
mircea_popescu: i don't think trying to formulate it is madness ; i do think that the orlov formulation is ridiculous at best.
mircea_popescu: actually, further - i think that attempts to solve it on those lines will cost the attempter his life and sanity for no benefit. in other words - i say orlov is a scammer.
mircea_popescu: i'm not directing this at him. he is whatever, i dun care. but from YOUR perspective, he works practically as a scammer. you know how donner party ended up in the spot where they ate each other ?
mircea_popescu: and yes, the derp was broadly correct, itwas "in that general direction" and so forth. but omfg patch of salt!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform asking "What is the minimal money necessary" is like asking "what is the minimum current draw of useful appliance". it depends neh ? for the money orlov already spent on his pretense (boat, authorship, whatever), egyptian native could have lived entire life happily in the circumstance of "the company of other bipeds being wholly SELECTABLE".
mircea_popescu: i say this on the basis of actual experience, not as a matter of "i imagine boats sometime when i'm frustrated"
mircea_popescu visited sufi, was admitted, first person to be admitted in ~decade.
mircea_popescu also visited coptic monastery ; we were the first visitors since summer.
mircea_popescu: they were not on any map ; owing perhaps to the happenstance egyptians generally dunno wtf map is, but perhaps not just.
mircea_popescu: anyway, also visited (danish iirc ?) archeological camp, abandoned since 1986.
mircea_popescu: there's tons of these. you could go live in a fucking tomb and probably die of natural causes before they'd even find out.
mircea_popescu: the cairo museum is overflowing with items stacked 5 deep.
mircea_popescu: hence it comes down to money. not random amulet, be it boat, dome or kryptonite.
mircea_popescu: and understand - this is the fundamental boyishness here. "father, how should i be a powerful lord ?" "have many friends" "i'll just build a strong castle"
mircea_popescu: the only definition of "powerful lord" is "he who can exclude others".
mircea_popescu: there is EXACTLY no other ; and the main issue of the war of troy was, "who the fuck does agamemnon think he is!"
mircea_popescu: a change from, "who the fuck does this priam think he is"
mircea_popescu: the momeny you've defined your aim as "to exclude others", you have therefore and inseparably defined your goal as "i wish to be powerful lord"
mircea_popescu: and yes, it comes with the gunk - once you are powerful lord for yourself, you gotta also select others for which to be, or else make enemies.
mircea_popescu: so you'll store your apparata ; plus three princesses and some stolen fenders.
mircea_popescu: hence my observation that the problem is psychogenic in nature.
mircea_popescu: whenever you end up with a problem which has no real roots, you therefore have a problem which... has no real roots.
mircea_popescu: that's a different thing. all non-problems are non-psychogenic.
mircea_popescu: anyway. problems, like f(x)=some polynomial, either have or don't have real roots.
mircea_popescu: if they do, are solvable in practice. if they don't, you're advised to fix your head.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> possibly answer is, be small king. far away <<< this is quite lulzy, you know. "i want a center of a circle that's squarer and closer to the margin"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:49 trinque: sounds like resigning to die, but then not having the dignity to eat the bullet
mircea_popescu: you know, sultan ordered "an army as strong as the one which took constantinople" be assembled to deal with this guy once and for all. after not doing so well for a long time eventually cornered him against a mountain, where vlad told his men that neither capture nor death of famine beign fitting of warriors, how about we go into their camp and fucking rape them.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505518 << strangely enough, none of the kids playing history (with the abundance their forefathers so imprudently assured them) realise that "hey, things are linked, a boat like this means i gotta sleep with a schmitar under pillow!"
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:51 phf: and the problem he was trying to solve is a lot closer to what you want to achieve, i.e. put lab on water, rather than recreate the lifestyle of late 6th century pirate nomads or whatever
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the man's own words, "he who thinks of death best not follow me"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:52 trinque: this guy's got a lab, what, to continue taking part in the same world he can't stand?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:54 phf: trinque: it's techno nomad, it's a thing. microship guy doesn't really try to solve same problem as orlol, it's all different people with personal interests and agendas that don't necessarily compose into a single stereotype
trinque: mircea_popescu: science is still a matter of conversation with others
trinque: wasn't saying "for" but "how"
mircea_popescu: (1469 captain general of venetian navy, no naval experience, guy being a lawyer and orator at papal court. chose to pretend like he knew his shit, cost venice its head eventually.)
trinque: guy in a monastery still writes letters
mircea_popescu: depends tho, some parts of science are nonconversational. it's a mixed bag.
mircea_popescu: perhaps tycho brache / keppler is the best example of this duality.
mircea_popescu: brache was, famously, so incapable of social intercourse he couldn't leave a banquet and died of a busted bladder.
trinque: I suspect people who can't find *anyone* to tolerate of a sort of gabriel_laddelism, i.e. if I stay up for 48hrs on tab cola I can rewrite gentoo portage fastrrrr
trinque: but then, asciilifeform could gossipd from his water-tomb I'm sure, so there's that.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 16:54 asciilifeform: this begs the question. yes, you need money. just as you need rocket to get to mars. but ~how much~ and what vector.
mircea_popescu: but the % varies - at the heyday of the empire, during trajan, burebista's 200+ tons of gold were not enough ; centuries later, a few % of that sufficed for an entire dynasty of paleologai
mircea_popescu: "if my answers scare you, time to stop asking scary questions"
mircea_popescu: otherwise, in common terms the problem is solved : 4 room floating apt can be had used in good condition for a coupla mil.
mircea_popescu: actually he bought a jet not a mig ; it was a few hundred not mil ; and it's not a terribru investment.
mircea_popescu: depends how much he flies it. but good engines, like good everythging - no longe rmade
mircea_popescu: on the planet where the guy he bought it from paid 15% what it cost in 2014
mircea_popescu: anyway ; floating apartment is not much worse for maintenance than car.
mircea_popescu: "pointedly not it", chiefly because you're trying the oldest trick in the poorfag's book, which is to say to NAME his target according to the conventions of trade, but to secretly expect it to satisfy his metaphysical expectations.
mircea_popescu: which is why it's always cheaper for merchant to cater to old dutchess than to young upstart wife.
mircea_popescu: it pointedly does everything you openly admit you want ; and fails to do all the things you want but disawov, such as "it should be a grownup for me".
mircea_popescu: well, figure out what you eat in a year ; plus all the things you might want but won't eventually eat.
mircea_popescu: suddenly your item is not a mere boat but a fucking battleship.
mircea_popescu: fresh water, at a gallon a day per head, means if you're actually alone a deux, 4 tons just that.
mircea_popescu: i suppose you could not wash for an entire year, a la rms...
mircea_popescu: your sail will power a seawater processing plant now ?
mircea_popescu: so you'll drink piss just so as to not have to listen to the neighbours fuck ?
mats: and then you get to enjoy hot racking with the crew
mats: like sitting on a freshly warm toilet seat, with less ick factor
mircea_popescu: course, it's always my womenz that warmed it, might be a factor.
mats: it's a fleeting, intimate moment with a stranger, in my case
mats: asciilifeform: I read the thread but didn't see a number, what did you arrive at?
mats: so, over or under ten?
☟︎ trinque: I admit I was googling solar yachts only yesterday
trinque: seems like if you're wiling to go about 7-10kts there are a few
thestringpuller: so i'm using suds with python. i'm looking at the package maintanence and the mailing list. anyhow when an opensource project dies, can you just be like "i'm forking this and doing it"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:52 trinque: if you've reached the point where the world has beaten you back to being willing to live in a shipping container, why live?
phf: i'd live on a sub, if it had those 1970s stage set rooms with giant windows through which you can observe underwater marine life, but which you can also close if you're being attacked by the establishment
☟︎ trinque: gonna have to build rapture
phf: too libertarian for my taste, proud people of short stature standing tall
trinque: > plenty of room to be 'lost' inside
trinque: that was probaby *my* escapist fantasy leaking in
trinque: less shipping crate and more crypto-babylon
trinque: phf: sure sure, just the physical thing without the Rand
phf: asciilifeform: have you read hakim bey's "pirate utopias"?
phf: or find some underwater grotto on one of less inhabited greek islands, seal it, etc.
shinohai: We already have orbitlab up there
phf prefers james bond solutions
trinque: no good, sealab blows up once an episode.
ben_vulpes: trinque: not triggered, but definitely amused.
ben_vulpes: when the problem domains are simple, the solution proposed appears to work. in reality, as *tard mgmt demands more features, flexibility, reports, etc, the complexity of maintaining and extending under the frameworkreich becomes more and more costly, a thing not necessarily apparent to anyone who hasn't suffered the saga or who doesn't think in terms of complexity minimization from the get-go.
ben_vulpes: i believe that you're familiar with this?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:52 trinque: if you've reached the point where the world has beaten you back to being willing to live in a shipping container, why live?
mats: the certified firmware."
phf: WIFI is so that you can talk between your WINDOWS 10 PC and your COMCAST ROUTER, duh
mats: let em try to stop, its an excellent expenditure of funds
mats: .cn is happy to churn em out all the same, no?
mats: i recall the issue being about power transmission
mats: i'm reading the document and it doesn't explicitly say anything about the firmware
mats: >An applicant must describe the overall security measures and systems that ensure that: 1. only properly authenticated software is loaded and operating the device; and 2. the device is not easily modified to operate with RF parameters outside of the authorization.
mats: 1 is so ridiculously vague that it doesn't mean anything to me
mats: authenticated by who?
mats: seems to me manufacturers are taking a generous interpretation to this in order to accelerate obsolescence
mats: i don't see the tendril at work here
mats: same old profit seeking motives.
mats: fuck that thing. took me almost an entire day to reflash, first go around
mats: too many revisions, and i don't think wrt54gl was available then
pete_dushenski: "If you work at Goldman Sachs in New York City and you want to tie up a woman and then have sex with her, there’s a good chance you’ll first have to speak to Rita. She’ll insist on calling your office, speaking to the switchboard operator, and being patched through to your desk. Then she will want to check out your profile on the company website and LinkedIn. She’ll demand you send her message fro
pete_dushenski: m your work email, and require a scan of either your passport or driver’s license. And you will comply." << y u no pgp rita ?
pete_dushenski: "“I am looking to weed out police and crazies,” she said. She estimates that only one in four potential customers ultimately passes. Those who do win some time with a professional escort/dominatrix, but it comes at a hefty price: Each hour can cost up to $800, and Rita’s cut is 30%." << steep!
☟︎ mats: dunno that you can buy an hour's stay in a shoebox for $800 in nyc
pete_dushenski: if it's only once or twice a month, a guess it's not that steep. and probably no more than a dinner for two at iron chef's resto in manhattan...
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 16:21 asciilifeform: i would happily live in a truck if the truck could be teleported into a parallel space with 0 people by push of a button.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: based on observations in the wild, if they were told to go there they would.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What and how are immaterial, likely will be solved for them.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 12:16 thestringpuller: Also they are nailing the doors shut on Ether tomorrow until "clear winner": "As a Poloniex customer, you do not need to do anything. The migration will occur automatically, and your full balance of Ethereum will be transferred to the winning chain. Keep in mind that as we near the fork, we will be temporarily disabling deposits and withdrawals in preparation for the migration process. Trading will continue
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: walls are kinda thin and flimsy for that purpose. the orcs with 'strong retard' muscle will bust through those barriers like a steam train through a sheet of tin foil.
pete_dushenski: "In Austin, Minnesota, another Kmart was turned into offices for Hormel, as well as a giant Spam Museum." << lol!
pete_dushenski could never understand his father's interest in spam. perhaps curio, perhaps rekindling of some memory, but it was always in house.
BingoBoingo: Srsly? He seems to put most of the book content on blog.
BingoBoingo: I kinda though his formula was most text on blog, book offers a bit of extra.
BingoBoingo: Anyways Orlov's plumbing problem is that when making the boat it should have been a primary rather than secondary consideration. Also wtf, hoses? Rigid copper seems like it would be much better for that application if boar design allowed for sanely routing pipes.
BingoBoingo: because they have just enough flex to not break and because unlike hoses do not break just because time passed.
BingoBoingo: Of course, but even nice hoses abrade when movement happens.
BingoBoingo: AHA, but Orlov makes a point of NOT using that.
BingoBoingo: And hell PEX "hose" also likely would work.
BingoBoingo: PEX is nice because you can supply every fixture from single manifold without fittings between manifold and fixture.
BingoBoingo: Old garden hoses though, especially the less common 3/4" are wear items even when situated in positions where wear seems unlikely.
BingoBoingo: Yes, PEX has problems when not buried in wall.
BingoBoingo: But anyways Rigid copper is king because easy to work with
BingoBoingo: On boat you can have big bag of "sharkbites" and skip torch.
jurov: duct tape everything!
BingoBoingo: sharkbites is this brass encased o-ring push to connect deal. rather handy
BingoBoingo: those, tubing cutter, crescent wrench, channel locks, and emery cloth offers minimal space plumbing toolkit
BingoBoingo: Well when initially building boat do solder connections when you have the space to do so.
BingoBoingo: tubing cutter that demands more than 1-1/2" swing radius sucks
BingoBoingo: Submarine without lathe is likely impossible
BingoBoingo: One can not imagine all possible fittings that might be required in underwater plumbing.
BingoBoingo: Also how does one make a valve with just a threader?
Framedragger: wonder what tmsr thinks of ipython notebooks. basically you go to website and are presented with python interpreter, and a ready-made list of commands for graphing, doing stats etc. thinking of doing one of these for some initial ssh keyset analysis. nothing too serious at all
☟︎☟︎ Framedragger: presumably said website would have the raw data as a module or somesuch
trinque: no one will stop you from using the tools you like. we've already got cl, python, perl, shell script, et al, floating around various places
Framedragger: thought, maybe there's some elephant-in-the-room reason for avoiding it :p
trinque: well, python's a shitty language.
Framedragger: as a sworn lisper (well presumably) trinque, what do you make of haskell, out of curiosity?
trinque: plenty of that in the logs
trinque: $s from:asciilifeform haskell
trinque: ben_vulpes' pastinator strikes again?
ben_vulpes: previous line in some other buffer or what?
ben_vulpes not involved in any sort of binding arbitration
Framedragger: ben_vulpes' subconscious is tapping into his tty
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: probably has better binding arbitrartion jokes than i in any case
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:09 Framedragger: wonder what tmsr thinks of ipython notebooks. basically you go to website and are presented with python interpreter, and a ready-made list of commands for graphing, doing stats etc. thinking of doing one of these for some initial ssh keyset analysis. nothing too serious at all
phf: ipython is a handy python repl thing, but i think it was some people's first repl, so it turned into reinvention of clim presentations. problem is it's entirely useless without third party libraries for any kind of large scale data analysis, because core python is limited. where's the landscape of python scientific libraries is a constantly changing mess.
Joshua-I: afaik ipython has a similar api to a lot of stats / machine learning suites
Joshua-I: I'm doing this program online that uses it. Gets the job done
Joshua-I: I might not use it for more specific analysis tho
trinque: yes, and yet phuctor www is python
trinque: sure, I'm not criticizing it
trinque: some things benefit from expediency and we as yet lack the republican computing platform
phf: Joshua-I: i don't know what "same api" means, in this case. ipython is an enhanced ~repl~, but the code that you write with it constantly changes, because can't just load data set into a python array. need to use numpy, etc.
trinque: tbot here is perl, trb builder is either sh or Makefile
trinque: aha, so guy might as well do some work as long as he knows he is not making statements about how computing is to be done.
trinque: that said wtf is wrong with the lisp repl for a "notebook"
trinque: gabriel_laddel was supposed to be building just this
phf: you look at ipython code now, read tutorials and you think to yourself "oh this makes sense, it is nice", but over the course of 5 years scientific computing with python went through 3 or 4 different suits. that's an unreasonable amount of cognitive overhead, considering that mathematica now supports all the same primitives that mathemaica in '95 did
☟︎ Joshua-I: trinque: it's pretty impressive to see in person
trinque: I do not benefit from tales of secondhand wonder !!!1!!
Joshua-I: phf: eh I might be over abstracting because I tend to just jump from concept to api so I can get something done sooner rather than later
Joshua-I: Like some arbitrary mapping of math -> programming api
phf: Joshua-I: you make it sound like being sloppy with your tools is a good thing :)
Joshua-I: phf: it is if you want the goods
phf: Joshua-I: sure, that's why i use intellij for work, but i will not talk up the virtues of intellij like it's a good thing, which is what you're doing
phf: somehow the separation between the two is totally alien concept to a lot of people who run into tmsr machine. "i eat shit, therefore it's good for everyone". we too sometimes eat shit, but we have good sense to know that it might not be the best thing
Joshua-I: phf: it's not like consistency and rigor are foreign concepts to me just adding in some comments on the other side of the conversation
phf: Joshua-I: you didn't understand what i said, and i have neither interest nor time to explain myself
trinque: $gettrust deedbot Joshua-I
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
Joshua-I: trinque: I'd advise seeing it for yourself as it may be the only way to convince you
Joshua-I: trinque: my powers are quite limited as you can see here
jurov: is there any language capable of running 20yo code?
phf: pascal, less so than above languages, but still more so than even C, since it has a standard notion of pascal machine. C can do 20 year old code, but within some narrow scope of posix, or more like "unix"
☟︎ jurov: re: common lisp - i'm curious, is there any 20y code still worthwhile to run now?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 21:02 jurov: ibm ships own jvm, too
jurov: i dunno, i had a life as java developer, ibm jvm was superior on linux and ran both eclipse and our project fine
jurov: but we disgress, thanks for examples!
jurov: lol i was the only dude on the team with the setup
jurov: since i was sysadmin hybrid
jurov: everyone else was oracle+win
jurov: yes, there was a gui
jurov: eh, i run into this with common lisp all the time
jurov: well, after light usage i found bugs in core functionality in ecl, like it ignored *TRACE-OUTPUT*
jurov: so i'm rather sceptical about whole affair
jurov offers to asciilifeform classical vacuum cleaner with edison screw plug
jurov: it was *the* standard at some time
jurov: i remember seeing electrical irons with it
deedbot: Joshua-I voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: well, if you count it going to like 5 celsius ONE NIGHT and otherwise being a very balmy lower tens thing winter,
Joshua-I: So do you miss longer, colder winters?
mircea_popescu: looky, if i missed everything i cared for and don't currently have it'd be an endless funeral+wake over here.
mircea_popescu: it never rains in egypt. that was nice. not in suitcase. it never gets hot in northern transylvania. also. i dun have either bosphorus or golden horn. the list is long
mircea_popescu: every time i leave someplace there's a bunch of girly tears left behind, you know ?
Joshua-I: How distant is it for you now?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not a bad place. of course, these days... Joshua-I sorry wut ?
mircea_popescu: but if one is going to live in a large human anthill, byzantium prolly a better choice than more modern atrocities.
Joshua-I: Just wondering if you still yearn at all for the winter
mircea_popescu: (funny enough, winter in romanian is iarna ; reads almost exactly like english "yearn")
Joshua-I: I'm definitely projecting then :)
Joshua-I: I have broad taste in that area. Let me think on it a minute
mircea_popescu: by that criteria buenos aires spring is about 10 months long.
mircea_popescu: it is the strangest thing, i used to think mosquito is the sort of beast that either doesn't exist or else is abundant
mircea_popescu: i imagined they must be spraying, but then again i never saw either flight or land crew doing in.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 17:46 asciilifeform: ( did mircea_popescu ever build that mega-toilet ??)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 17:50 mats: so, over or under ten?
mircea_popescu: i'm also certain it wouldn't be worth having ; but that's a different story.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 17:54 asciilifeform: trinque: you will find that the machines are not designed for permanent life aboard, or to survive winters.
mircea_popescu: if your idea of winter is "no ice floating", then most ships will survive such.
mircea_popescu: (yes, i'm pretty much convinced that IF you actually wanted to do what is here contemplated, a wooden structure is the best choice.)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 18:08 phf: i'd live on a sub, if it had those 1970s stage set rooms with giant windows through which you can observe underwater marine life, but which you can also close if you're being attacked by the establishment
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 18:11 asciilifeform: the problem i was futilely stabbing away at is 'how to be independent of homo homini lupus est'
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505981 << but this thing where "build in environment with large cost" is not a solution, because the enemy incurs the cost only when visiting whereas you incur the cost permanently. so this is, strategically, a nonstarter, whether the medium is mars or ocean or w/e.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 18:12 asciilifeform: there may be other solution.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have never heard of anyone practicing that solution nor would i think too much of their head tbh.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 18:24 phf: asciilifeform: it's a totally speculative exploration of north african pirate city states during the age of exploration
http://hermetic.com/bey/pirate-utopias/ it might appeal to your romantic nature
mircea_popescu: spanish tried to attack him on land, etc a whole conundrum
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski this fellow is original'\s younger brother nd no, they were ottomans.
mircea_popescu: anyway, point being they were "pirates" in the sense erdogan is "embattled". a matter of the foreign press and no more.
pete_dushenski: aha. barbs supplanted venetians (and i spanish) on the mediterranean... that's right.
mircea_popescu: that is one point ; the point im making however is that they weren't pirates in the sense you're not a penis. part of what they did, of fucking course, given the geography. but they were otherwise just as much a normal country as say albania.
mircea_popescu: the original - perhaps. the one im discussing here, very much a normal pasha. who happened to have a port in his lands.
pete_dushenski just received email with marketing photos from winnipeg architect with sha1 checksum(!). not sha512 but still highly unexpected.
mircea_popescu: to take the matter home, you could say nelson was a pirate rather than a lord ; or better yet that kelvin was a scientist rather than a lord. but these people principally did the thing in question ; whereas the african states principally did subsistence farming and small manufacture.
pete_dushenski: speaking of somali pirates, the recent 'captain philips' film with tom hanks was the most pallid agitprop in that direction
mircea_popescu: they weren't pirate states in the way florence or venice were.
mircea_popescu: the other way to put it is that piracy is what happens when people who don't want to think about the sea decide to think themselves cooler than their neighbours who do like to think about the sea.
mircea_popescu: it's a fundamental mechanism of putting the inept but uppity in place.
mircea_popescu: "british" doesn't exist here. albion was a failed state bought wholesale by the dutch who then used it as naval stage base.
mircea_popescu: spanish did not. portuguese did, and they built an empire out of it.
mircea_popescu: but for the spanish, atlantic was "fly over zone", and as you say, they'd have loved to "separate it".
mircea_popescu: symptomatically, the spanish solution was "make larger ship"
mircea_popescu: (obviously, king mircarlos the 5th would have simply ordered one man rowboats be made and sent every man in one to go to fucking galapagos and return. but then again...)
mircea_popescu: they misperceived the sea, much like you do, much like people who don't sail generally, as a "empty" space.
mircea_popescu: dynamic equilibrium. wherever you take your bleeding husk, piranhas follow.
mircea_popescu: if the sheep found a way to graze on rafts, the wolves would ride around in speedboats.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: mass has ~nothing to do with it though. YOU are the target, personally. for as long as you're the sort that wants to be a king without a crown, there's going to be a preditor chasing you around.
mircea_popescu: you think every white man going there became the master of the what, indians ? negroes ?
mircea_popescu: you have any idea how many white women lived their days as the junior slave in indian fambly, after their husband was dispatched ?
mircea_popescu: looky : every time you find this imaginary space where thermodynamics doesn't apply, it's not that you've found a space where thermodynamics doesn't apply as much as you've deluded yourself in some manner to ignore some obvious wrinkle.
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry, you're discussing a slice of time worth ~two decades ?
mircea_popescu: let's restate. "i would be very comfortable in a chair that was built just like this collapsing assemblage between seconds 1.3 and 1.45 of the fall".
mircea_popescu: jackson was president 30-38, civil war started 60. you gotta be shitting me.
mircea_popescu: things that dun last WEREN'T THINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!
mircea_popescu: fucking definition of "figment of your imagination" : "that shit ain't gonna last"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:57 asciilifeform: phf: re python: in my view, if you EVER end up breaking a language in such a way that 20 y.o. code cannot run, not only was your lang broken to begin with, but YOUR HEAD was.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 18:55 asciilifeform: mats: and the pigfuckers certainly don't want you and i turning the wifi chip into mesh network etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno man, i one day visited prechristian syria, went to bed with woman, appendage fit perfectly.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman lol what a mess. a) wasn't built by teutons ; b) cantemir the elder was king, not stephen omfg.
diana_coman: I read it that that was precisely the point, lol
mircea_popescu: pity cosbuc didn't write travestys and librettos for burlesque/revue.
diana_coman: truth be told I did not realise it but it might be better to add to the notes probably, to make this clear
diana_coman: then again, how far does this clear thing go in the end
pete_dushenski: "I typically pay $5 to $10 to charge up. Every single station has been, for years, mediocre to terrible. The stations are often broken due to software or hardware problems, and remain out of service for weeks. Competition among electric car drivers for these public charging stations is fierce and intensifying. It’s practically impossible for me to find an open charging station during the day."
pete_dushenski: next thing you know an autonomous car will drive a trunkfull of c4 into the white house
☟︎ mats: i v much enjoy reading about the 'golden age of piracy'
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 18:24 phf: asciilifeform: it's a totally speculative exploration of north african pirate city states during the age of exploration
http://hermetic.com/bey/pirate-utopias/ it might appeal to your romantic nature
mats: oh wait, these are fictional huh
☟︎ mats: anyway, other stuff includes 'Under the Black Flag' by Cordingly, Johnson's 'A General History of the Pyrates', and 'Empire of Blue Water' by Talty
mircea_popescu: diana_coman most likely plaesi, other side of mountain from piatra neamt.
mats: i put a bookmark in the last one and forgot to pick it up again, i'm now reminded to do so
mats: it deals with the v early period where Henry Morgan was busily sacking cities
BingoBoingo wonders what Dr. Foreskin is up to these days
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 19:13 asciilifeform: cheap universal digital radio drives snooping costs to astronomical heights, and threatens to de-emphasize centralized telco antennae
pete_dushenski: another q for tmsr : any recommendations for linux-cpanel webhosts that don't roll over to social engineering attempts ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: for all the effort so far wasted into creating said antennae in bitcoin ; it'd be lulzy if they just lose the extant ones in telecom
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 19:15 pete_dushenski: "“I am looking to weed out police and crazies,” she said. She estimates that only one in four potential customers ultimately passes. Those who do win some time with a professional escort/dominatrix, but it comes at a hefty price: Each hour can cost up to $800, and Rita’s cut is 30%." << steep!
gribble: vc was last seen in #trilema 5 weeks, 2 days, 4 hours, 45 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <vc> Framedragger: I'm cool with port scans, neither me nor my parent host cares
pete_dushenski: has anyone here used cock.li ? please to share experience if so
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 19:49 asciilifeform makes note to self not to buy boatz from BingoBoingo
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:09 Framedragger: wonder what tmsr thinks of ipython notebooks. basically you go to website and are presented with python interpreter, and a ready-made list of commands for graphing, doing stats etc. thinking of doing one of these for some initial ssh keyset analysis. nothing too serious at all
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: What is an ark but a boat that is actually plumbed and wired like a structure and not some duct taped sea gypsy trailer?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:44 phf: you look at ipython code now, read tutorials and you think to yourself "oh this makes sense, it is nice", but over the course of 5 years scientific computing with python went through 3 or 4 different suits. that's an unreasonable amount of cognitive overhead, considering that mathematica now supports all the same primitives that mathemaica in '95 did
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 21:03 phf: pascal, less so than above languages, but still more so than even C, since it has a standard notion of pascal machine. C can do 20 year old code, but within some narrow scope of posix, or more like "unix"
BingoBoingo: Anyways the best land ark is probably going to be one of the many urban brick former Roman Catholic churches on the real estate market. Amenable to fortification.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:42 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506210 << i have no idea why "scientific computing" on the c machine would use anything but c slowly mutating into asm, but then again that's me.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:45 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506249 << 20 year only takes us to 96, which isn't really that far behind. i'd wager about 50% of c code currently doing anything useful was written in the 90s.
mircea_popescu: but the coupla projects of scientific computing i observed, the phases were readily distinguishable : 1. people are excited, they loudly choose "best" hot new stuff, pass along napkin sketches ; 2. the super-duper shit runs into more wrinkles than it's worth, kids are all depresed. at this point the project either dies or management intervenes, gets wizard, wizard takes a weeklong look at it, decides "on the basis of consider
mircea_popescu: ations etc" c is the right tool. strangely, the matter is always considered properly and in context, yet the result always the same.
mircea_popescu: at this point, project either delivers and is done or takes on life of own. if takes on life, then 3. more wizards are added, they slowly asm-ify the loops, inside out.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: also , yes. gaming console really very much like science.
mircea_popescu recalls reading a twenty five line of ret once, throwing hands up, leaving the matter to others.
mircea_popescu: figuring out which was the case was not something i wanted to get involved in.
mircea_popescu: "probably stupid, possibly not, and we're dealing with highly selected folks. fuck."
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:31 mircea_popescu: for all the effort so far wasted into creating said antennae in bitcoin ; it'd be lulzy if they just lose the extant ones in telecom
mircea_popescu: on average distance is, iirc, to the tune of 1k miles.
mircea_popescu: sure, and your neighbour sends them to china. aaanyway.