mircea_popescu: well... i guess specifics of this will be tied to specifics of that.
mircea_popescu: hm. im guessing we'll get together with diana_coman and write a spec ? unless you want to propose one ?
mircea_popescu: currently the "what happens past key generation" and "there's an otp" part is left pretty loophole-y
mircea_popescu: i'm also not entirely certain a symmetric cypher or perhaps hash-and-rehash scheme won';t be better.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so im thinking here, without a byte/sec sort of idea of what messaging is liable to look like, we can't really spec anything anyway.
☟︎ deedbot: pepegrillo voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 00:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so im thinking here, without a byte/sec sort of idea of what messaging is liable to look like, we can't really spec anything anyway.
mircea_popescu: that part is not hard : a) you get a client ; b) you write it a drop-in wrapper for the messaging - this should be one function/class + the keygen. the same class should be used by server the same way, which we'll do the integration of.
mircea_popescu: basic cryptoquestion i do not expect an answer to : is there a way to evaluate strength loss by hash pass in a scheme where otp is hashed and the hash used as next pass otp, for N passes of this ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, it's ok that there isn't : there ALSO isn't a way to evaluate strength loss due to "rng" starvation.
mircea_popescu: so it's impossible to make a rational decision here, from both ends. win-win, as they say.
mircea_popescu: if he decyphers the 12th in a 12pass scheme he gets 1 message.
mircea_popescu: anyway because messages are highly structured to begin with, there's a whole lotta attacking surface available.
mircea_popescu: (a large part of this project is me trying to field-evaluate crypto schemes in the first place)
shinohai: has anyone checked the rng for the new blockchain.info `wallet`
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i'm not discussing here "a way to community consensus". the question is quite specific : given 12 passes, tell me how much strength i lose adding a 13th.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm more concenred about obviously-not-working in practice. same principle as phuctor, really.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in order for management to make decisions, all items must be put in the form a > b.
mircea_popescu: i didn't mean it that way. i meant, all items must be reduced to TWO scalars.
mircea_popescu: in this case : here is the security loss from adding a 13th step to the 12 step scheme : 79. here is the security loss from not adding it, because rng starvation : 45.
mircea_popescu: only in this context the decision to "add it" or "not add it" can be said to make any sort of fucking sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re glue, we'll be able to run a test server for it anyway.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: chick from earlier says to `profoundly thank you`
shinohai: actually she was a very nice lady
deedbot: dvsdude voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-05 19:25 mircea_popescu: i gotta stop drinking.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how does the server rental fee make sense as "intangibles and goodwill"?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: also latest s.nsa posting missing s.nsa wptag
trinque: phuctor's a free public service innit
trinque: in other lol today I discover that emacs tries to ssh to host.does.not.exist at every start
trinque: yeah, hamhanded probing for whether you have ControlMaster support in your ssh
trinque: you'd like to think your machine will with default settings not take it upon itself to diddle the network
trinque: but you know, 2016, great progress
trinque: and the fucking bug is "mom my toy is too slow" not "HOLY FUCK THIS TOUCHES THE NETWORK WITHOUT BEING ASKED"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: sure, this is likely a misunderstanding of "intangibles and goodwill" as an asset.
mircea_popescu: well, if you cash your paycheck and don't spend it, it's cash. if you spend it to buy a pair of shoes, you have a tangible asset. if you spend it to buy a round for all your friends, it's goodwill.
mircea_popescu: the difference being that the tangible you can turn back to cash whenever you want to ; whereas the intangible you gotta wait for it to decide on your own.
ben_vulpes: 3% of s.nsa's balance sheet amounts to "sweet parties we have thrown" by that reading
mircea_popescu: anyway, the whole job of valuating a public corp reduces to adding the proper factors to those 3 categories.
mircea_popescu: how much cash, how much asset and how much goodwill does apple have ?
mircea_popescu: anyway. the scheme is both correct and very, VERY fucking scary to "start-ups", because within 12 to 18 months, ~100% of all their capital turns to "sweet parties we have thrown". which is a sad reality they dun wanna look in the face, especially not while trying to get someone/anyone to give them moar money.
mircea_popescu: the sort of "salaries" start-ups pay have more in common with greenmail than with the proper concept of salary.
mircea_popescu: i've yet to see a start-up engage actual labour, in the classical sense of this term.
mircea_popescu: ie, labour is when you engage a stable of cowsies to die in your stable, circulating company scrip between the company store and the company workshop. then wages actually contribute to assets.
mircea_popescu: which is also why start-up paying anything but warrants/options/stock is primo nonsense. but then again a no-nonsense approach would shut off most of the morti di fame who like to pretend they're participating in the economy, as they'd have to get proper jobs instead of aspie-ing all over town.
ben_vulpes: this greenmail notion is entirely unrealistic, shares allocated to "enginering" are utterly trivial compared to investment tranches, and shartup operators routinely reneg on non-dilution clauses for staff.
mircea_popescu: but the "employees" are still paid chiefly to not go to the "competition".
mircea_popescu: also i find now that the webternet is retarded. investopedia definition for instance is pretty nonsensical. i guess pinoy everywhere.
mircea_popescu: anyway. greenmail is an antieconomic activity, in the sense that management group A divests capital goods in order to pay management group B to no longer pretend like it could do a better job of managing said capital goods.
mircea_popescu: like, if ethereum-classic created some dilutive ethereum coins to pay off random idiots to run their chain instead of the ethereum-fork. or vice-versa.
mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, is just as common in scamcoins as it is in scamcorporations aka vc-whatever. "premine", ie, reserved-greenmail.)
gribble: Current Blocks: 423920 | Current Difficulty: 2.0189321085305896E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 425375 | Next Difficulty In: 1455 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 567.36, vol: 6223.64827465 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 570.0, vol: 2594.70548 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 561.91158, vol: 76412.05880000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 572.33, vol: 1077.58913538 | Volume-weighted last average: 562.677707037
mircea_popescu: possibly one of the more depressing activities available in contemporaneity is checking out the portofolio of one of those "artist" photographers that in practice survives out of taking wedding pictures. i don't mean the friend-of-the-bride etsy idiot that DOESN'T survive. i mean the dude who keeps a steady stream of work enough to feed a family, provided that family somehow decided to do on half the income of a plumber becau
mircea_popescu: se daddy's artistique. hopefully the wife fucks around with a non-beta. but anyway :
mircea_popescu: all of them are ooooobviously "speshul". except... all of them are obviously the same fucking thing, the fuck are you gonna do out of a dork who doesn't own suits and a rando girl in a white gauze marshmellow ? within an acceptable budget ?
mircea_popescu: there's only so many ways you can anchor gauze in a tree so it appears windblown.
mircea_popescu: "if i can't comfortably lift the girl in the air, maybe it's time to work out! or maybe it's time to find another girl!" thought no groom ever. "if my wedding threatens to look exactly like the wedding of every other bourgeois idiot, maybe it's time to take off the dress" thought every bride ever, AND THEN CHICKENED OUT ON IT. etc etc.
mircea_popescu: and then that "trash the dress" bullshit. looks exactly like a donna dolore set for the first two minutes, then it turns out the director isn't present and shit goes downhill from there.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform currently eulora messages exchanged between client and server are between 43 and 2048 bytes (really upper limit and rarely seen); this being said, the current system of messages/ exchanges between eulora client and server is quite a mess from many points of view, so it's set to be changed too
diana_coman: from the server to the client mainly; the other way around is much less, below 10
mircea_popescu: so for an average message size of say 600 bytes, the server on average sends 800 messages to the client each second, and the client back about 1-200. that sound right ?
mircea_popescu: meh wait, i did the 8 conversion the wrong way. 50kbps ~= 10 messages / s if they average 600bytes each
diana_coman: aha; might be worth mentioning too that average can be dubious, since you'll get more likely spikes when lots of things happen where you are and otherwise some very low regular exchanges
mircea_popescu: and by the revision we're doing we hope to cut this... in half ? by 90% ?
diana_coman: hm, kind of hard to say before having done at least some sort of concrete start on this; at this moment I'd say half more as a guess than an estimate
mircea_popescu: ok. so the reasonable move here would be to spec this to transport 10kbps from client to server ; in chunks no longer than 2048 and no shorter than 32.
mircea_popescu: not a serious problem, i really intend to simply include a chat client. didn't mention this in the fls, but... all comms should be over irc anyway.
mircea_popescu: with the possible exception of pm, which should be a separate function, and point-to-point. (ie, client encrypts to dest's key, not to server's key)
mircea_popescu: if we actually go with a 12-pass hashing method, this then will require > 8kb of entropy/second from the client, which isn't possibru without dedicated rng fountain.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, as long as the input isn't actually fucking 0... maybe urandom can survive with this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's your call, because the matter is quite acute : is it a safer system to demand 8kb entropy/second and hash 12 times ? or to demand say 128bytes/second and hash 768 times ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in other news holy shit ffmpeg is a fine example of how not to do a -h switch. it overruns default terminal buffer!
mircea_popescu: nah. everyone's responsible for what he eats. server makes otps for itself ; client for itself.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform good thing they "solved" the old mechanical lock problems then huh! viva progess & technology.
mircea_popescu: (in other lulz : ro admits both technologie and technologeala as imports for "technology". the first is commonly used ; the latter is a portmanteau of tech and ologeala, which is the noun describing the "fact of having been made olog, ie, unable to walk". quite appropriately.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, not most of them, because intelligent people are lazy and cowardly.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's an academy. it is very much vessenes-style ; and always has been.
mircea_popescu: i used to regularly humiliate them for their sheer ignorance, back in the days i almost cared.
mircea_popescu: so frequent in fact the manufacturers introduced a special category of "not new, but as-new" to cover for it.
mircea_popescu: "this is a car sold without the intent of its owner". to answer the perennial tyre-kicking question of "so why're you selling it"
mircea_popescu: can't say i'm entirely opposed to the idea. then i can just log into facebook backend, direct selected womenz to preferred fuckpad ?
mircea_popescu: in general tehnologeala weakens the consumer ; advantages the gangster. except of course in practice it works to split the gangster into levels of consumerism.
mircea_popescu: ie, what street toughs will there be once there's no policemen ?
mircea_popescu: contrary to what the state likes to claim, it is always "law enforcement" that creates "the criminal element" ; never the other way around. first there was a police, then there was a "law breaker"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mno. law can exist without "law enforcement". to equate the two is very much part of the statal delusion.
mircea_popescu: let's carry the discussion in terms of tax, always and everywhere the most nevralgic point of the statal model.
mircea_popescu: the republic manages to extract tax without a tax extractor.
mircea_popescu: this is important. qualitatively it is exactly as much a state as any usg flavour. the discussion may be carried in quantitative terms,
mircea_popescu: but the problem is that even here the republic wins : the tax it collects is an optimum on the capital allocation curve
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the church-state difference is entirely hallucinatory in nature.
mircea_popescu: no, in the sense of any ethics (ie, an attempt to implement morals) is equal to any other.
mircea_popescu: the difference between "don't ever fuck a girl in this building, nor drip candle wax on her bare tits while she kneels on this particular wood plank" is no different from "don't call fat people niggers and don't park where that drawing is"
mircea_popescu: then again i spent some time dripping wax on bare tits in 5 century old euro churches, also.
mircea_popescu: but go ahead, illustrate this difference between "a state" and "a church", i'm all ears.
mircea_popescu: more to the point, the "classical village" is an entity that survived fine with a dazzling array of law and regulation that a) exceeds in complexity modern codes and b) was entirely oral in nature while at the same time having... no police. at all, i mean. none. zip.
mircea_popescu: eventually a "king's representative" showed up, and this event marks the end of the classical period, and the start of the modern, ie decay.
mircea_popescu: what's your definition for "brainwash" and how do you distinguish it from "education" ?
mircea_popescu: have you been brainwashed into disbelieving there's as many points in a line as in a plane ?
mircea_popescu: what's the intent of your mother teaching you to not piss the bed ?
mircea_popescu: her intent is that if she manages, your father won't have to kill you.
mircea_popescu: which is dangerous, because if she's picked as well as orwell's dumb whore of a mother picked, the derp won't even try it he sucks so bad.
mircea_popescu: note that it's VASTLY a more common problem for boys, and ~in civilsiation~ than it is for girls.
mircea_popescu: the reason is that nature explores in the male not in the female ; and consequently there's much more variance in the male than in the female ; and because they're all kept alive...
mircea_popescu: what's the mechanism for allergies ? shitty immune system. how about autism ? etc.
mircea_popescu: "shitty" in this context strictly means "inadequate to current circumstance"
mircea_popescu: it can't mean anything more/above that ; there's no absolute shitty.
mircea_popescu: in which sense, while mediatory strategies exist, working through modifying the environment - the fact that it needs modifying has not been resolved ; and so the genotype is still shitty.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'less sweat for repo man' ? << likely
mircea_popescu: so i think i invented a new cocktail. you cut up a fresh ripple pineapple, into small chunks. you pour an inch of fine cognac into an old style whiskey glass. you proceed to dip the chunks and eat them.
mircea_popescu: i was just trying to get BingoBoingo 's links and noticed.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: repo tends to have business end hidden and quickly self loads vehicle onto carriage.
jurov: but of course, C++ object instantiation documented and used in crystalspace is avioded in lieu of homebrew mess
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Usually mounted to truck frame under truck bed, or inside truck bed. Instead of toolboxes composing sides of bed as on "friendly" tows, most repos no have factory bed of lookalike
BingoBoingo: Pretty much the only reason any Americans still have "their" cars appears to be that their cars suck
jurov: yea, no two C++people can agree on common string implementation.
ben_vulpes: does a1111 self-shutdown every 24 hours?
trinque: if I can get sasl to work I will have an afaik perfect bot
trinque: right now after I issue AUTHENTICATE PLAIN the thing times out
trinque: relatedly I've read cl-irc and the thing is a haphazard mess
trinque: asciilifeform: I mean perfect in the latter sense
trinque: all problems mine has involve the various nickserv states; sasl auth solves that
trinque: the thing just establishes a connection and shits messages into db, reads messages to send from db
trinque: broke all the code for the commands into their own thing which interacts with the db
trinque: 230 lines now with maybe 100 of that being nickserv logic I haven't deleted yet
trinque: ben_vulpes: some character named Jochen Schmidt apparently
ben_vulpes: "There's a possibility they may not be the only ones that are doing this, but right now we feel if they are the only ones that are doing this, with this arrest we hope we will be able to curb the amount of thefts occurring," said Woods. << quote i'd meant to drop last night re the carlol
phf: ben_vulpes: like clockwork. i will do the tmsr thing and claim that wreckers are blackholing teh server
mircea_popescu: enemies of the revolution everywhere! must stay vigilant, comrades!
phf: i'm thinking of moving it to cock box, but i doubt that's going to be better, since the policy there sets it up to be an attack box
ben_vulpes: wait, what does the box location have to do with anything?
ben_vulpes is dreadfully curious about the actual failure mechanism at work here.
phf: ben_vulpes: it times out
shinohai: "To clear up confusion, 17.5k ETC was replay attacked on Coinbase (~$40k USD)"
phf: the bot disconnects when ping/pong delay exceeds 30 seconds
phf: asciilifeform: how's cardano going?
mircea_popescu: shinohai that's why the confusion took a week to clear ? because it wasn't 4,5 mn eth coins ?
mircea_popescu: he's wasting his time hopelessly trying to catch up to my ho count while he's still young, that's why.
phf: well, unfortunately i don't have S.LOG to make monthly excuses to shareholders in. log upkeep is like the janitorial work of tmsr, doesn't even come with a promise of future millions
phf: best case scenario, i'll just lose my shit like kako
phf: why don't i lose my shit like kako?
phf: i don't grok the business strategy of "here's the project i'm working on, it lost x btc so far". cardano had a deliverable, that could be sold, everything else seems to be "tmsr marketing"
mircea_popescu: what's that to do with anything ? bitbet had a model, that had a model, this had a model, what's it to you ?
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm not asking him questions because i hate him. i'm asking him questions because i'm nice!
phf: mircea_popescu: i will have to think about it, because to be honest i've not given it any thought. i'm not immediately seeing a cause for it though
mircea_popescu: it's not like alf is magic and phf is unmagic. come up with something. preferably that'd make sense.
mats: how could you monetize that? trilema credits for s.log?
shinohai builds a printing press that makes wptrons and gets listed on mpex
shinohai: distribute shares to holders by number of words ala qntra? xD
mircea_popescu: deedbot is probably closer to becoming a paid service on those lines, it's just mostly deliberate decision to not push it that way yet. which is sensibru.
phf: yes, yes, keep talking (/me counts words)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i believe him when he says, "i've simply not thought about it". which is the beauty of tmsr, gets people thinking about things.
mircea_popescu: anyway. eulora made i dun recall, some tens of btcs selling its product so far. bitbet took in i dun recall idem, but maybe a few hundred to a thousand selling its product ?
mircea_popescu: neither of these have so far produced a unit of whatever they produce for less than they sold it for. this is obviously unsustainable ; but also not necessarily a killer early on in new markets.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for ~same reason "colored coins" in all their nutty variants all the way to "the dao" dun work in practice.
mircea_popescu: there isn't ai. and it costs too damn much to actually hand-eval contracts.
mircea_popescu: there's a ~degree of magnitude gap between what "a bitbet bet cost" and what bitbet charged for one.
mircea_popescu: no. the implication here is that "automated business" will always end in crater, with the size of the crater as a functiuon of how much everyone actually reliedf on the "automated" part.
mircea_popescu: ie, in case of bitbet things worked smoothly because i never trusted the nonsense ; in the case of the dao unsmoothly because the idiots actually tried this "the code is law" nonsense.
phf: asciilifeform: of course i thought about writing bbet, but that means that i can't work on log, or would spend less time on it. to answer question re no reconnect, at some point there was a reason, which i since realized was silly. to now rewrite bot and integration takes time. which i took, now takes time to integrate etc. if i was working on this full time could finish all in a couple of days. as is, i'm literally hacking in a car on
phf: the way back from ocean city
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform creation's cheap ; closure's expensive. what's the cost of making a kid ? depends. do you kill him right after or do you take him to college ?
mircea_popescu: just, all things can be discussed, now you've opened this can, so we're discussing it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to give you one datapoint : out of close to 2k props closed, there were exactly 2 mispaid ones we had to repay. go ahead and create a team of people who a) pick all items within hours ; b) failure rate of 0.1% or less. then report what it costs.
mircea_popescu: quite so. it's a deep problem, i have been toying with for many years, because i never do just one single thing at a time.
phf: asciilifeform: ~one~ thread. every time bot goes down i get a "wtf" treatment from you. bot disconnects because there's a connection issue. it doesn't reconnect because there's no reconnection code. i will fix that eventually. i've said as much every time the subject comes up. so i'm supposed to just work on this shit to a chorus of "loooooog dooooown wtf incompetence"?
mircea_popescu: and bitbet was a particularly promising but ultimately failed attempt to take a bite out of it.
phf: asciilifeform: you are
phf: asciilifeform: there's two problems. one is pedantic, lost messages during reconnect period. one is practical, there's a handful beurocratic steps that needs to take place during reconnect, ensuring you have the right nick, ghosting a stale connection, ensuring that you're authenticated
trinque: yeah, that's why I'm farting around with sasl over here
mircea_popescu: incidentally, we prolly shoulf just publish a standard irc bot basic, a la gribble (which is really just supybot) then v off it ?
trinque: enumerating the states of nickserv is a tangle of weeds
trinque: mircea_popescu: precisely what I'm working on
trinque: this sasl bit is the last thing before I sign a vpatch
phf: mircea_popescu: trinque actually published one, but it's a bit too tied to his particular postgresql requirements
trinque: phf: imma rip that out and provide hooks
phf: (i actually integrated that code into btcbase two weekends ago, which is when i piped up about it. but then i went to ocean city, twice now :> so no free weekend of hacking)
phf: all these stories from mp basement, i feel like i'm missing out
mats: fun fact, the usb smart card reader spec defines a control request for eating cards instead of returning them
mats: there's no guidance for how the reader is supposed to fight if the user resists
mats: the new usb3 standard has a lotta power, could shock a disobedient user real good
mats: virtually all of these i've seen have three glass walls on em
mircea_popescu: anyway, re phf's "of course i thought about writing bbet" : the problem there's not "write the site", thats a trivial task to be done in a brief time by a single competent coder. the problem there, and the reson i'm not pushing for replacement, is "how to administer bets". and until i have a good idea i won't push for this, because it's ~futile as it is, will just pile busywork on some people for no actual benefit.
mircea_popescu: now, if someone either a) thinks they have the bright idea or b) welcome the busywork (not unrational, that's how you learn things) they're welcome obviously.
mircea_popescu: with the caveat that from experience, mike_c's attempt to make a site (and he made a very nice one) to test in practice some theories which we didn't agree on in theory did put a lot of load on him, and possibly in my mind burned the guy out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have the advantage of ready at my beak and call stable of otherwise intelligent, educated and detail-oriented womenz. i can soak up all sorts of unimaginable things the average "vc team" et all couldn't possibly.
mats: whatever happened to the guy that was working on a wot cryptopoker thing
mircea_popescu: not much, sadly. that might be a much better idea for "Something to do", if anyone's looking.
phf: mats: "work" part consistently turns out to be hard :>
mircea_popescu: phf you should see what "make this shit 64 bit uniformly wtf is this" ends up being like.
phf: oh i've seen that code, so whoever worked on that migration is a saint
mats: i played with the idea but i need an alf (or a coupla years of free time to eat the prerequisite knowledge)
mats: i'm not confident in my ability to write secure crypto
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12162511443944070773219991934677582698468209730498855355911521948607449303537567609416882598773485743668093728963053579135929514188223460244897500435488727 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.61.38 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.61.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+197.221.61.38@mkj.lt>; ' -
http://phuctor.nosuchla ☟︎ deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12162511443944070773219991934677582698468209730498855355911521948607449303537567609416882598773485743668093728963053579135929514188223460244897500435488727 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.63.150 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.63.150 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+197.221.63.150@mkj.lt>; ' -
http://phuctor.nosuc deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12162511443944070773219991934677582698468209730498855355911521948607449303537567609416882598773485743668093728963053579135929514188223460244897500435488727 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.61.38 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.61.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+197.221.61.38@mkj.lt>; ' -
http://phuctor.nosuchla ☟︎ shinohai: i made pokarbot but only plays simple texas hold 'em rules
ben_vulpes: phf: nobody's pushing the incompetence line
BingoBoingo hopes phf unveils S.EX and kind wonders why no one's chosen that ticker yet
shinohai: if i had capital to start a pr0n biz i'd call it that xD
danielpbarron: the poker thing need not be "provably fair" it only needs to have WoT integration -- not unlike Eulora
mircea_popescu: dooglus contributed a lot of solid research to this ; the way he handed it in primedice with the salts and later copied by all the others works fine.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 18:37 asciilifeform: mats: did you (or anybody else...) ever come up with a 'crypto poker using btc' scheme, at all, that relies on protocol (vs promise) ?
BingoBoingo: primedice bought forum ads, dooglus was the ad
mircea_popescu: anyway. decentralized don't enter into it. the way you play is that you have a dealer bot, which selects a string composed as a) "the hash of the latest known block whose height is divisible be 117 and is not in the last 117 found blocks" + b) a server generated salt for the day + c) a player generated salt, to be changed any time a player feels like. then for any dealt hand, the server concatenates a + b + c for each player
mircea_popescu: and hashes the result. this is the "rng". at end of day publishes day's salt concatenations for each played hand.
mircea_popescu: the major problem in poker isn't "fair dealing", it's debotting it. but i have a ready solution for this problem too, and im persuaded it's complete.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: also none of the nonsense of "encrypt face down cards" via elgamal is needed.
mircea_popescu: as green correctly points out, "most of the pointless wank and useless crud in all stem fields were actually just unhappy accidents: the shit that stuck to the floor, walls and all crevices while imbeciles at MIT tried to feed themselves."
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 18:54 asciilifeform: think bbet was doomed by 'gotta send 2 btc tx, one - player's, to play, one - bbet's, to pay bet' ?
mircea_popescu: on the contrary, bitbet made most of its money in retrospect by being canary in mine.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 19:02 asciilifeform: ;;later tell trinque any idea why deedbot sometimes spits out a phuctoring twice ?
mircea_popescu: "A working hostname lookup is a fundamental part of the system. ~Andreas."
mircea_popescu: motherFUCKER! really, bitch ? really ? YOU SAY WHAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 19:01 deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12162511443944070773219991934677582698468209730498855355911521948607449303537567609416882598773485743668093728963053579135929514188223460244897500435488727 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.61.38 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.61.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+197.221.61
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 18:43 deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 12162511443944070773219991934677582698468209730498855355911521948607449303537567609416882598773485743668093728963053579135929514188223460244897500435488727 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.61.38 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.61.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+197.221.61
mats: the tesla hype is real
mats: some idiot experiences a pulmonary event, relies on autopilot to travel ~20mi to hospital, and this is lauded as teh future! disabled people can drive places now! etc
jurov: asciilifeform: guess the rss implementation uses updated tag as primary key, and recent 2 entries have exactly same timestamp
mats: where's the fucking part where this guy (and others - who sleep at the wheel, play jenga, w/e) is found guilty of reckless endangerment?
jurov: consider adding some pseudorandom nanoseconds or such
mats: thing's not fully autonomous, what if he lost consciousness due to low oxygen, and road conditions required human judgment?
mats: lol tokens you can use to buy equity in bitfinex? genius!
mats: asciilifeform: i don't see how any of it is workable tbh
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 18:10 asciilifeform: phf: see, i did not know that you implemented entire stack, always assumed that you had it hanging off znc or the like