476 entries in 0.637s
ben_vulpes: i see
manifest draf, art car parade, and then the cuntoo instapper
spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-02#1820283 <-- reading this thread, it just occured to me: is there a convention re. directory structure? the implicit one (in my own head at least) was that each project lives under its own top-level directory (e.g. b/ircbot, b/ffa, b/eucrypt, where b is the press tree). so then does the
manifest reside in b/project_name_toplevel_dir/
manifest?
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-06-02 20:02 mircea_popescu: for instance i can't even tell whether hanbot's mp-wp genesis includes a
manifest atm, by virtue of it not even being on btcbase.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, do you mean adding a
manifest to eucrypt or what exactly?
mircea_popescu: alright, plox trinque write a v
manifest specification, so it can be linked to for the future.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 16:26 mircea_popescu: trinque, what's your stance here, do you particularly want to implement a grapher /
manifest / generally fix a v ? not really ?
mircea_popescu: for instance i can't even tell whether hanbot's mp-wp genesis includes a
manifest atm, by virtue of it not even being on btcbase.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i want a link point for "hey, i gotta include
manifest ?!" queries which will keep flowing ; no doubt.
spyked: mircea_popescu, the rss bot would branch the ircbot tree then. if trinque or mircea_popescu see any reason for adding rss bot on top of ircbot, I see no reason not to, but it would be disjoint item (i.e. only file changed would be
manifest)
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "up" and "down" may not be as firmly
manifest as you personally imagine. postmodernism is bizarro world, up is down, they say hello when they leave...
hanbot: i dunno, i think the best thing they can hear about homework is that they're so special they don't need to do it. their unicornity shall
manifest, and better to retain/don the woolies of youth to maximize the potential for manifesting firstbestbiggest.
trinque: there's a
manifest in the deps dir
phf: well,
manifest is in the vtools project, but there's no programmatic support for it, because it's not even clear to me what sort of programmatic support might be needed. as it stands anyone is free to add or not add a
manifest to their particular graph. the result of this experiment is that
manifest works, you can see its output on the site. problem that we have is the need for a smarter grapher, the solution to which might just be "if it hurts when yo
mircea_popescu: trinque, what's your stance here, do you particularly want to implement a grapher /
manifest / generally fix a v ? not really ?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 06:55 mircea_popescu: is the
manifest issue fixed ? is the graphing done ? am i what, going to lose v now because i'm too polite to yell, and left to your own devices you're just going to break it, permanently, obscurely, and forget about it ? or what's the fucking logic here.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-30 23:52 phf: well, i'm now convinced that
manifest is an elegant, minimally invasive solution. i'll try it in a regrind.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 04:33 mircea_popescu: how about a convention whereby all new genesises must contain a
manifest.genesis file, which file will be constantly patched on each patchj, no exceptions, by adding a line which reads : "This is patch #x and the codebase hash is blabla".
mircea_popescu: is the
manifest issue fixed ? is the graphing done ? am i what, going to lose v now because i'm too polite to yell, and left to your own devices you're just going to break it, permanently, obscurely, and forget about it ? or what's the fucking logic here.
☟︎ mod6: but hey hey! trinque: if you're sitting on some patches for this, please send along when you get the
manifest part working.
trinque: I'm blocked on not having the
manifest, so next on my plate is to regrind every patch with a
manifest entry.
danielpbarron: 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made
manifest, that none of them were of us.
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:19 :: Because that which may be known of God is
manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
phf: mod6: the graph on btcbase vtools is the only way it can possibly press. either the left branch or the right branch. changing the order, or introducing the patches from left into right, or right into left is going to break
manifest.
mod6: if I press either path, i blow up on the
manifest.
mircea_popescu: phf it's incomprehensible to me as the
manifest.txt varies wildly.
phf: well, i'm now convinced that
manifest is an elegant, minimally invasive solution. i'll try it in a regrind.
☟︎ phf: with
manifest we're basically saying "there's going to be one file, which is going to establish the one true chain, and all these other files are just hanging by the side"
phf: hmm,
manifest's hash though solves the same problem, we're essentially driving the graph by
manifest hash chain, and the other files in patch are for additional culling
mod6: more generally: is a
manifest part of a code-base
phf: ultimately it doesn't matter what's inside
manifest, as long as its hash is unique, e.g. it's append only log that requires >1 byte of change in each vpatch
mircea_popescu: i expanded on that to allow comments in the
manifest, in the spirit of literate (
mircea_popescu: the trinque original (which im too lazy to dig out atm) was "concatenate your whole codebase, hash it, add the resut on a new line of
manifest.txt" pretty much.
phf: like i said, i understand the problem, i'm not sure of the solution, because ~i~ have not attempted to tackle it. for example i suspect that the
manifest might be problem specific, i.e. what you put there is informed by the shape of the tree you're trying to create.
mod6: i've been thinking about the
manifest thing for a while... and I'm not sure about it... seems like it'd get hairy. and would require versioning in and of itself. however, if we had a sample to look at, might be easier for me to grok.
phf: though a
manifest could be used as a kind of assert during press, as long as it doesn't rely on filenames. (i believe the idea of putting antecedent vpatch's hashes into
manifest floated around)
phf: i don't understand the solution. i've spent significant amount of time writing various graph walking algorithms to feel like without an set of experimental patches it's hard to have a solution that actual address the underlying complexity. what i wanted to see from trinque or whoever's attempting to solve this problem, is an actual attempt to construct a press tree with a
manifest file that does what they want, to ensure that the approach actual solves
phf: trinque: can you produce a sample then? i don't want to implement your idea, having only vague understanding of how it's supposed to look. there's been many discussions in the log as to what the actual
manifest contents should include
phf: a as to what format the
manifest supposed to be. i didn't realize that the idea is that vtools tree was supposed to be the first one to experiment with it
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791280 << it's an oversight. i thought that the idea is that my vdiff/vpatch support programmatically whatever
manifest format we come up with, but somebody demonstrates how it's supposed to work first. it's not hard to regrind existing tree, manually add a
manifest, and then see how it looks on a graph. for some reason i thought that trinque has that experiment in his pipeline, since he also seems to have a clear ide
☝︎ spyked: thanks mod6. I wonder if it's one of those cases that spawned the discussion which led to the idea of a
manifest file. in any case, it looks like the patch above (vdiff_lib_xalloc_static_xnmalloc) can have multiple children.
mircea_popescu dug it up ye ancient
manifest. there's 112 A3 and 10 A1s, of which iirc jurov got a dozen back then, so i assume there's 76 and 10 left ; and 24 a3s with phf. ie a coupla grand in today's fiats.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-04 16:38 asciilifeform: i actually have a pcengines apu1 ( 2G version ) with the sage header soldered on, and sageprobe, that i am adding to the cargo
manifest mircea_popescu: "process my data with the press X as identified from your
manifest, i don';t trust X'"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah, we're actually saying the exact same thing, i misunderstood what
manifest you had in mind.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:07 asciilifeform: then it oughta be in sections, and the sections in small
manifest. merkle-style.
mod6: asciilifeform: 'sane
manifest' =~ <+asciilifeform> then it oughta be in sections, and the sections in small
manifest. merkle-style. ?
trinque: even
manifest doesn't need to churn that much, but can sure.
trinque: lets say you use your "magic file" for mirroring,
manifest, then what when the
manifest is very large?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 04:45 mircea_popescu: genesis.
manifest apeloyee: hence the hash-
manifest proposals
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 04:52 trinque: why not have one file,
manifest, and you edit it, then vdiff the whole shebang.
trinque: if an automatic
manifest comprised of hashes of all items in project, it reduces to the $concatHashBefore and $concatHashAfter
trinque: why not have one file,
manifest, and you edit it, then vdiff the whole shebang.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: question then becomes how to get the patchtitle into .
manifest mircea_popescu envisaged the genesis.
manifest as wholly mechanical item, just a patch-per-line count of patches, no space to adlib.
trinque: hm. the
manifest also gives you a place to name blobs.
trinque:
manifest can be the patch header nearly as is
ben_vulpes: hash of the patched codebase including the patched
manifest with hash of patched codebase in it?
mircea_popescu: how about a convention whereby all new genesises must contain a
manifest.genesis file, which file will be constantly patched on each patchj, no exceptions, by adding a line which reads : "This is patch #x and the codebase hash is blabla".
☟︎ trinque: digest produces a new
manifest of hashes for the distfiles mentioned in the ebuild
mircea_popescu: trinque well, many things are wrong with it. for instance, plenty of girls never encountered a male centered enough to be able to
manifest for.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't specifically need a
manifest, as per discussion (have you been reading the discussion ?) ; can just follow the hashes.
mircea_popescu: now, as it happens said behaviour is a terrible strategy in postmodernity (basically,
http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-21#727929 ie you'll lose out on EXACTLY the long tail SV.VC can not afford to lose) ; but the remnants of a pre-modern time
manifest in the lowest forms of culture -- such as disney films ; and passive socialization.
☝︎ mircea_popescu: ands in other lulz, every time there's a major usd devaluation event, a new crop of
http://trilema.com/2013/the-story-of-pointless-and-witless/ "joins" in the sense of "flips a bit inside own head from self-importantly ''ignoring'' bitcoin to just as self-importantly ''being involved'' in bitcoin, as if either bit state or the act of flipping can possibly matter in any manner" and then set to "fixing" their
manifest inadequac
mircea_popescu: ie, there's nothing capitalist about it whatsoever ; capitalism does order the disordered symbols in similar manner as longhand does, as an act of civilisation and a point of
manifest superiority pointedly absent from the work (or generally ustardian mentality today)