tmsr - Log 2017-08-21

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hanbot: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-8-20#186825 << http://trilema.com/2013/romanias-new-right/ probably better reference.

mike_c: !~later tell Birdman here's a new version:

jhvh1: mike_c: The operation succeeded.

mike_c: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Rdydw/?raw=true

mike_c: This only identifies hands where someone put money in the pot and wasn't in the summary. Cuts it down to 1,591 bad hands out of the 300k

mike_c: I can't actually fix the numbers for you, because the numbers are wrong. Note in the example how it says the small blind was 1 million and change.

mike_c: But that should get you the hands you are interested in.

mike_c: asciilifeform - closed turd client was necessary because I didn't think this would even work, and it was one time thing. so not worth investing time in vs. spinning up VM and then destroying it.

mike_c: !!up Birdman

deedbot: Birdman voiced for 30 minutes.

Birdman: yeah for some reason i think it lists the blind number instead of just what the blind is. that must have been the one million and change blind posted

Birdman: but this is still really helpful helpful, so no luck on listing the hand winners ?

mike_c: you mean fixing the amounts? no, not with all the corrupted numbers in there

Birdman: no the amount but the name that one

Birdman: won*

mike_c: Uh, sure, that's easy. Just for the bad hands you mean?

Birdman: yes

mike_c: !~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Rkg8q/?raw=true

jhvh1: mike_c: The operation succeeded.

Birdman: right now it lists the players that left right?

mike_c: it lists the missing player(s)

Birdman: ah yeah, did i request that, i dont know why i would lol, its the winners of the hands i need to de clutter

mike_c: Birdman: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/fYi4o/?raw=true

Birdman: thanks!

phf: i went reading slime/swank pull request conversations on github (i know my mistake!) and it's all the usual wreckers there.

phf: fare: "I'm all for supporting old implementations (we support Genera, furgossake), but that's very different from supporting an old ASDF. ASDF was designed to be self-upgradable precisely so that the way to deal with an old ASDF is to upgrade it." ☟︎

phf: "Can we declare ASDF < 2.26 dead? Actually, if we can also declare 2.26 dead and say everyone has ASDF 3, that's even better."

phf: from "SBCL: use weak hashtables for thread accounting" attila-lendvai "it's not backwards compatible with old SBCL versions, but SBCL has proper weak hashtable support for several years now"

phf: from "Change some defaults to more reasonable values" attila-lendvai "the key bindings in the connection list are currently very dangerous when using with production systems, e.g. killing the connected lisp is bound to a mere C-k."

phf: and on and on and on. march of progress ☟︎

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701357 << ftfy "ASDF __3__ was __re__designed to be self-upgradable __by me__ precisely so that etc" ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 03:05 phf: fare: "I'm all for supporting old implementations (we support Genera, furgossake), but that's very different from supporting an old ASDF. ASDF was designed to be self-upgradable precisely so that the way to deal with an old ASDF is to upgrade it."

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701331 << for the curious http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9209/culianu.html ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-20 23:50 phf: one, Ioan Culianu, who was in turn killed in 91, some say over his criticism of romanian right, but of course we all know that he was dispatched by the occult interests over his research in that field.

mircea_popescu: hanbot yeah that's a point.

BingoBoingo: Laments from the deaf http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8704

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701361 << hey, it's not like herdemocracy happens on accident. insistently, persistently built why whole swathes of shitheads. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 03:11 phf: and on and on and on. march of progress

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701362 << this probably captures the "stealing by name" pantsuit doctrine best. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 03:13 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701357 << ftfy "ASDF __3__ was __re__designed to be self-upgradable __by me__ precisely so that etc"

mircea_popescu: phf fwiw, culianu was actually killed by the national-socialist PCR (romanian communist party).

mircea_popescu: anyway, eliade's iron guard affiliations are very far from a little known fact. i'd wager more people know about that than ever read any of his books, let alone understood such.

mircea_popescu: and maitreyi is mandatory reading in highschool!

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sounds more like dood is taking a (dramatic) vacation than anything.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Likely he's in a high noise bubble

phf: well, tbh i only just learned that the two knew each other. evola is mentioned in eliade's books, but only in connection to his books on subj, like "the yoga of power" and his study of pali canon

phf: and the introductions to eliade's book don't go into apologism (unlike evola books, all the english translations require an mandatory disclaimer, that he was a racist, but only a little!1)

phf: in other words i'm slowly discovering that there's life west of moscow, but before you hit berlin :o

mircea_popescu: lmao

mircea_popescu: for the record, most of what orcs (ie, americans, russians, etc) think when they imagine "Great Ole European CULTURE!!" is actually exactly between moscow and berlin : 100% spritz and http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-09#1195397 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-07-09 18:44 asciilifeform: !s царь-государь

mircea_popescu: there was one major cultural power in the time uncultivated minds can furthest think back to, a time whose murmurs come to them through the great-grandparents, and that time wasn't napoleon 3's paris. it was vienna.

mircea_popescu: phf also worth bearing in mind that point re introductions in the rothbard series. people more recent than the author daring to pen introductions are the exact equivalents of herostratus ; and to be treated no better.

deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/08/minor-pantsuit-apologizes-for-crime-against-trump/ << Qntra - Minor Pantsuit Apologizes For Crime Against Trump

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wasn't serious, she put no btc on it.

BingoBoingo: Well, zher democracy can't be that serious if they can't hold the line

mircea_popescu: i thought that was the whole slippery point of zher, that there's a hole not a line.

BingoBoingo: They can't even bend their own to follow the groupthink when targeted for the minute of hate

BingoBoingo: Anyways, obeasts don't have proper holes. Gravity and all that.

mircea_popescu: meanwhile in "no means yes" news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/21c5230f077f68c7f921beb9c304ffc9/tumblr_nwcnedWJl41thkzd8o1_500.gif

BingoBoingo: Holes collapse on themselves

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo are you thinking of gas giants ?

BingoBoingo: Means Means Anal!

BingoBoingo: Hamplanets!

BingoBoingo: Gas giants are what happens when you take hamplanets to Applebees

mircea_popescu: lol

deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/a-face-in-the-crowd/ << Trilema - A Face in the Crowd

BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-friday/ << Remember

BingoBoingo: Serious petrofood stink with those gas giants

BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2017/a-face-in-the-crowd/#comment-122723 http://nation.foxnews.com/?q=health-care/2010/09/08/obamacare-destroys-andy-griffiths-approval-rating

mircea_popescu: lol!

mircea_popescu: eh wtf he cares, old fart with santa monica house.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo amusingly, the "welfare state" / entitlement program is actually discussed in the film!

BingoBoingo puts on list to see

mircea_popescu: griffith is against. matthau comments importantly that "at least he has the courage of his ignorance".

BingoBoingo: After tomorrow's obligatory watching of dragon consuming sun.

mircea_popescu: matthau being a great actor and an utterly iconic libertard imbecile.

mircea_popescu: and in other "us entrepreneurship" aka "the incredible productive assets and unlimited human ingenuity existing in America?", i give you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyw3lZ8Jw7E

spyked: phf, asciilifeform: re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1701146 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701180 <-- thanks for all the refs. my initial plan was to start from whatever SECD papers I could find and better understand architecture specifics. ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-19 23:57 phf: fwiw, if the goal is to put an existing lisp machine onto an fpga, then i don't think macivory is a particularly good target. the goal would be to run Genera, which is severely lacking sources for critical components.

a111: Logged on 2017-08-20 00:51 asciilifeform: failing this, could start with cadr and slowly backport bolix envir.

spyked: also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read. ☟︎☟︎

spyked: !~later tell mircea_popescu re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701196 <-- yah, but does protecting the "proles" from own stupidity even make any sense as a statement? sorta relates to idea on Trilema on whether the empire wanted to arrive to this point (can't find it right now). enfranchisement of the stupid directly lead to that. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-20 01:23 mircea_popescu: !~later tell spyked http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/062-greenspan-assault-on-integrity.html << the problem with this view is that the pantsuits correctly intuit that all the imbeciles they enfranchised are sitll imbeciles. consequently it would be no harm to a business' reputation to sell them iguanas on a stick and call it prime beef. they will never know ; and casual perusal of tardstalk "investor" as well as "community disc

jhvh1: spyked: The operation succeeded.

spyked: phf, slither.io is very similar to agar.io, which was similarly addictive back in the day. killed a lot of hours with it, so from that perspective, definitely wouldn't recommend trying it

spyked: hey valentinbuza. you beat me to /join-ing #trilema. :)

spyked: oh, btw

spyked: !!rate mircea_popescu 4 master of three-lemmas, bludgeoner of sinners

deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7Ygyf/?raw=true

spyked: !!v C629131A95F6D5771C913AE538CFB1B39FB07945A2BD411D3E2ED61EE9DE3A93

deedbot: spyked rated mircea_popescu 4 << master of three-lemmas, bludgeoner of sinners

spyked: !!rate asciilifeform 2 voice of sane computing

deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/u3P5B/?raw=true

spyked: !!v EA5F068678EEE9ECD16B49045910E1F3615062DDD3F9AAD21E52990B3F1F2980

deedbot: spyked rated asciilifeform 2 << voice of sane computing

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701413 << to get the fuck off unix and pc. permanently. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 11:33 spyked: also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read.

asciilifeform: rather than merely paper over them

asciilifeform: a sane comp is a box with NO unix in it, anywhere.

spyked: !!rate valentinbuza 3 fierce hacker, cracker with research mindset ☟︎

asciilifeform: 1 level below, x86/arm/pci,sata,usb, etc play same role as unix and microshit -- accumulated layer of sewage ☟︎

deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WNenm/?raw=true

spyked: !!v 5D865AC4F5962CA4FBA83B49EA73346177A614AD1068AB4638006E5B90F145B1

deedbot: spyked rated valentinbuza 3 << fierce hacker, cracker with research mindset

spyked: asciilifeform, yeha agreed. was wondering whether it's worth using the virtual machine as a starting point.

asciilifeform: inho not

spyked: although I'm expecting the code to have its own hacks

asciilifeform: *imho

asciilifeform: for starters, it is buggy

asciilifeform: ( as in - crashes )

asciilifeform: whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime ☟︎☟︎

spyked: ok, so to sum up; 1. get ice40 fpga; 2. run fpga lisp machine (cadr?); work from that towards symbolics/ivory, or the other way around starting from symbolics. ☟︎

asciilifeform: the other aspect, vlm is a massive bucket of c liquishit, and not at all a compact description of the arch

asciilifeform: spyked: we have loooooong way to go - try and make a ddr controller first ☟︎

asciilifeform: to do this, will need to make world's first ice40+ddr board -- none exist

asciilifeform: and no , NOT a matter of 'take opencores hdl and port'

asciilifeform: you gotta minimize the delay and specify gates MANUALLY for the specific fpga

asciilifeform: after this, comes ethernet

spyked: was trying to get a perspective on things. I haven't dabbled in hardware since 3rd uni year (that was almost 8 years ago). and even then... well, I got a lot to learn.

asciilifeform: spyked: you will find that none of the existing literature is of any help

spyked: asciilifeform, what do you think of minimal baremetal implementation of Lisp (RISC assembly only) on something like a MIPS core? I might be thinking this in too abstract terms, it's definitely not that easy. but I'm trying to find a middle way between working FPGA Lisp machine and Lisp on unix. ☟︎

spyked: bbl

asciilifeform: spyked: i tried this, it's a dead end because papers over idiot hardware rather than replaces. and does not yield hardware sovereignty-- you are at the mercy of the chipmaker's continued making of 100% compatible cpu & peripherals

asciilifeform: and there must be NO non-taggedwords code physically anywhere in the machine.

asciilifeform: and not a single flipflop of state that we didn't consciously put there.

asciilifeform bbl

valentinbuza: hi spyked. I just read the MP blog a week ago :) saw your old comments

asciilifeform: spyked: i spend 7+ yrs on this approach, and my verdict is that 'middle way' is a DEAD END

asciilifeform: you're welcome to spend 7 more. alternatively you can learn from my work.

asciilifeform: a spoonful of unix in a barrel of honey -> barrel of shit .

spyked: asciilifeform, I see. I thought this would be a way to make the problem easier in the short/medium term. but I've had to deal with being at the mercy of X myself at another level so this makes sense.

mod6: mornin'

asciilifeform: heya mod6

mod6: how goes?

asciilifeform: mod6: mostly snoar

mod6: werd

mod6: coffee time!

asciilifeform: spyked: consider, the amount of arbitrary stupidity you import even ~by having pci bus~ is gargantuan

asciilifeform: !#s dma

a111: 89 results for "dma", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dma

asciilifeform: ^ some reading

asciilifeform: and elsewhere, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1694030 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1694068 ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-04 20:55 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform took the chance made by the death of ssd in 'zoolag' to attempt netbsd. result : no boot. ( with or without 'no acpi' ) option, hangs at usb init.

a111: Logged on 2017-08-04 22:58 asciilifeform: possibly one could try building a netbsd that doesn't try to touch the usb chip at all. then enjoy setting up sans keyboard.

BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all

jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4003.84, vol: 7627.72154380 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4018.3, vol: 30043.72095863 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4103.023498, vol: 11645.10190000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4019.978, vol: 4926.6004382 | Volume-weighted last average: 4034.60775192

BingoBoingo: OMG, BRB: Dragon About To Consume Sun!

asciilifeform: spyked: as for 'use off the shelf iron', see thread http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552690 and elsewhere. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 15:36 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! pc engines 'apu2' (the board with the intel nics - vs. 'apu1', with realtek) , turns out, is crippled, hdt probe barfs with it, the cpu is reputed to have a drm fuse set.

asciilifeform: see also the sad story of movitz

asciilifeform: !#s movitz

a111: 14 results for "movitz", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=movitz

spyked: asciilifeform, lol, yeah, that's why I gave MIPS as an example. but actually, MIPS on FPGA + MIPS Lisp machine implementation might be more work than starting from CADR. that is, not even accounting for RAM and peripherals

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701443 << another little known fact, there are race conditions in genera itself, that manifest in higher clock environments. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 12:04 asciilifeform: whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime

spyked: I'm still in the process of grokking the DMA+interrupts discussion.

phf: i spent (mostly another whisperer and myself did) on getting vlm stable, and i'm unconvinced that some of the issues we encountered were purely "buggy vlm". there is, for example, a crash in floating point instruction that happens when you load document examiner on stock piratebay opengenera. i have no explanation for it still, because vlm code ~seems to do the right thing~. there are other similar instances ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: spyked: forget mips

asciilifeform: and other nontagged cpu.

asciilifeform: they don't belong in the future.

asciilifeform: phf: iron floatingpoint Must Die. ☟︎

phf: now i didn't find out about race conditions myself, that data point came from dks, they discovered race conditions as part of the emulator rewrite, but they have the benefit of having access to the necessary low level bits ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( and yes genera used it and yes you need it for historically accurate ivorytron. but dun belong in sanecomp. )

asciilifeform: spyked: designing a reasonably sane ( a la 'scheme79' ) cpu is not actually the hard part.

asciilifeform: reliable controller for usefully large ram, and peripherals ( the only strictly necessary periphs are nic and a reasonable ssd persistent storage )

asciilifeform: are the hard part.

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544148 <-- ah. precisely the discussion. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 17:05 phf: take movitz, take lice https://web.archive.org/web/20080624230234/http://www.emmett.ca/~sabetts/, add tcpip stack to it, add irc. what else one needs for tmsr-ing

asciilifeform: spyked: didja miss the part where it runs on no modern nic ? or the thread where ALL modern nics are built to use dma, which gives the nic vendor access to every byte of your ram ?

spyked: asciilifeform, yeah, it's right below phf's initial reply. the whole thing

asciilifeform: sane comp is to be a fully granular description. i.e. if you can still get transistors, you can still build ENTIRE THING. no exceptions.

asciilifeform: no magic 'available until we reversed it, then magically evaporates from market' chips.

asciilifeform: ( as for 'ice' itself, if it were to vanish, we can have clones rolling off conveyor in 6mo or so for coupla hundred btc. not so for magical stateful nic etc )

spyked: yeah, that makes sense.

asciilifeform: phf: what you & dks et al observed is called complexity shitstack collapse.

asciilifeform: it is not curable.

phf: i still stand by this point, but with a disclaimer. i think that one of the advantages early hackers had was that they were working from inside their systems. linus was dogfooding linux, symbolics were using every lisp machine at their disposal to build better lisp machines. i think there's inherent folly in planning a revolution from the comfort of our bourgeois machines :p

asciilifeform: phf: the notion is to build a box with sufficient ram, horse, capacity to drive xterm, so that you can sit down on it and edit the fpga config per se.

asciilifeform: closing the ouroborus.

phf: right, but you can already do that with, say, fpga cadr. it's not necessarily a shiny experience though

asciilifeform: cadr sucks because it was designed around off the shelf alu and misc glue of the time.

asciilifeform: nongranular.

asciilifeform: the designers were crippled by the extreme transistorpoverty of the time.

asciilifeform: there's NO reason to emulate, e.g., amd am2900, for all time.

phf: sure, but chinual is extremely detailed and the ~architecture~ can be improved incrementaly. for example brad's cpu is, yes, implemented as an emulator for a discrete circuit. but at the same time it can be isolated from the bus, put into a determenistic harness, and rewritten from the cpu spec in chinual.

phf: to some extent something like that was done in a transition from 36xx to ivory ☟︎

asciilifeform: in other, slightly related lulz, http://www.vzpp-s.ru/production/catalog.pdf << ru clones of fairly recent altera fpga !!

phf: i should clarify that rather architecture can be improved ~upon~ incrementaly

asciilifeform: in production today.

asciilifeform: suggests that d00dz have the spec ! somewhere.

asciilifeform: phf: i am not convinced that cpu arch CAN be improved on incrementally.

asciilifeform: the crud builds up, and you get x86-64.

phf: pff, russian tech. spec is produced by kiril after sit in room with 2 fpga (such luxury, whole two!) and bread for three months ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'для проектирования используется САПР ф.Altera − MAX+PLUS II или Quartus II' << pfff yea suggests brute force 'crystal, complete with 'when you care enough to steal the very best' easter egg banner' copy.

asciilifeform: https://electronix.ru/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t68107.html << moar whiners >> 'Пообщался я тут немного с ребятами, которые эту ПЛИС уже некоторое время окучивают. В общем, впечатления не самые благостные. Обвяз для подключения на отечественных элементах занял примерно кор

asciilifeform: пусов 20. Корпус выглядит отвратительно, выводы болтаются, отформовать нормально очень тяжело. Ну и на закуску - нумерация выводов НЕ СОВПАДАЕТ с фирменной альтеровской. Так что прежде чем рисовать схему я бы вам все-таки советовал попробов

asciilifeform: ать получить хоть какую-то документацию официальным путем.'

asciilifeform begins to suspect that these folx simply got a hold of american raw dies and make a killing mounting them in sov-era specced ceramic cases with gold pins, and calling it 'new production' ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( in modern ru mil production chain, they still mandate ancient orcish pinouts and case dimensions, supposedly to prevent substitution with cheap imported chip with name sanded off )

asciilifeform: examtakers -- optimize for examgrade.

asciilifeform: today just as in ancient china.

phf: i suspect there's still some amount of conformance with GOST. i personally think it could be a good practice if done right, but reading some usg account of it i can see how it can be turned into bureaucratic money maker

asciilifeform: the orc packaging ain't a problem, imho it is The Right Thing to ban western smt spec

asciilifeform: the problem is that it does not suffice to keep the producer honest.

asciilifeform: ( and there is no way to verify that the chip was actually reversed, and produced in ru -- other than to present the specs, and a native clean toolchain ! but catalogue says 'use quartus from altera' )

asciilifeform: now it is ~possible~ that the spec is disinfo, and in basement of kgb there is a rewritten alteratronic chain. but imho unlikely. ☟︎

asciilifeform: either way, it helps us not a whit, these items dun seem to be any moar obtainable than 'elbrus'.

asciilifeform: briefly thought 'hey they cloned altera, the specs must now be on the net somewhere'. turns out -- apparently no.

phf: The Secrets of Meta-NSA by what's that guy from yesterday

asciilifeform: culianu lol

phf: hehe

asciilifeform: incidentally in as far as i can tell, d00d was solzhenitsining for decade+, and very actively Musting Die from a very defensible imho pov

asciilifeform: classic 'orc intellectual in emigration'

asciilifeform: imho it is strange that the contract on him had to wait until ceaucescu dead ☟︎

phf: right, i didn't even comment on that aspect, because everything should be obvious from that article i linked.

asciilifeform: dunno re obvious -- but it is strongly suggested

BingoBoingo: !~bcstats

BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all

jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4006.43, vol: 8737.86217624 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4017.1, vol: 29708.56397392 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4095.153, vol: 13610.99210000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4035.231, vol: 4765.27338535 | Volume-weighted last average: 4035.67611666

BingoBoingo: Today's adventure into the path of totality was very worthwhile, especially over merely vieing partial phase of eclipse. Based on traffic, traveling to the centerline of totality zone seems like it would have offered little additional benefit.

asciilifeform: !~later tell spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701446 >> on second thought, you probably could put this chore off, olimex sells a ice40-8k (largest available) with 512k of sram glued on. and this is theoretically enough to prototype . the more pressing matter is ethernet. ( afaik nobody sells an ice40 + ethernetmagnetics . and just as with ddr dram, answer is 'lattice wants you to use their larger fpgas, with THEIR toolchain' ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 12:06 asciilifeform: spyked: we have loooooong way to go - try and make a ddr controller first

jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

asciilifeform: )

asciilifeform just unpacked one of ^ units

spyked: asciilifeform, was going to ask. is there particular ice40 you're recommending? it might be a while until I get one but I looked over the list and they had various types (ultralite etc.)

asciilifeform: ( for n00bz : no, you can't breadboard at 100MHz. gotta have actual board. )

asciilifeform: spyked: for n00bs i recommend 'icestick'

asciilifeform: it has the programmator built in

asciilifeform: and usb uart.

asciilifeform: so no fiddling with wires, programmator dongles, etc. needed.

asciilifeform: but the only ram you get is the 32k of sram on the crystal.

spyked: so from ^ the "ultra"er models don't work with the open source toolchain? I was looking at one of the breakout boards earlier

asciilifeform: 'icestick' is readily available for 10-20 usd wherever protojunk is sold

asciilifeform: spyked: only the ice40 series

asciilifeform: it has a plain matrix-of-LUTs structure, no built-in periphs

asciilifeform: which made it a realistic reversing target, and it was apparently successfully reversed.

asciilifeform: if you're used to working with, e.g., xilinx 'spartan' or 'virtex' series, it will feel VERY tight.

asciilifeform: ( but, i will point out, is MUCH roomier than the xc9572 cpld used in FUCKGOATS )

spyked hates xilinx with passion. if only because of the bloated software ☟︎

asciilifeform: i last leeched the xilinx hog in 2011 and don't intend to ever update.

asciilifeform: i will be phasing xilinx out of my product line entirely, also.

asciilifeform: ice40 leaves a great deal to be desired ( it is VERY small, comparatively, and doesn't come in a no-flash version, and who knows for how long it will remain in print ) but is by far the closest thing that currently exists to the sane fpga.

spyked: this is gonna be fun. asciilifeform, I haven't looked into hw since 2010, so there might be stupid questions coming your way once I start playing with this. btw, I don't mind getting my hands dirty with soldering, I just have very rudimentary tools for now.

asciilifeform: spyked: unless you are VERY well-equipped, you will not be soldering ice40.

asciilifeform: ( iirc the smallest package is a pqfp-64 )

asciilifeform: largest, that is.

asciilifeform: ( physically )

asciilifeform: the 8k ( largest gate count ) is sold ONLY in bga.

asciilifeform: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-fpgas-field-programmable-gate-array/696?k=ice40&k=&pkeyword=ice40&pv1328=i960&FV=ffe002b8&mnonly=0&ColumnSort=-457&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 << e.g.

deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B39A2F2FE4458177B4359D74EFD1A7A27CFA0B063D5815391C525882628EE98 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1419...0413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.82.103 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.82.103 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.tlakeenterprises.com. US MO)

deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B39A2F2FE4458177B4359D74EFD1A7A27CFA0B063D5815391C525882628EE98 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1741...8967 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.82.103 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.82.103 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.tlakeenterprises.com. US MO)

asciilifeform: ^ http://www.usapublicdata.com/business/cAbAbk/ << lulz, usg

asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/12eLH << qntra fodder ?

jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

asciilifeform: 'Ten US Navy sailors are missing after a US Navy guided-missile destroyer collided with an oil tanker east of Singapore early Monday, the fourth accident in Asian waters involving a US warship in 2017'

asciilifeform: 'USS John S. McCain' didjaknow. ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'The McCain is named for the father and grandfather of US Sen. John McCain.' lol!!

BingoBoingo: ty asciilifeform

asciilifeform: spyked: you don't need to re-voice unless you got unvoiced (typically from connection reset)

spyked: thanks for the tip. didn't know, initially thought there was a time limit for that

asciilifeform: spyked: nope, that's only for guests who get manually up'd by someone.

spyked: anyway, I ordered three icesticks (because free shipping, and would rather pay for extra hardware than shipping)

asciilifeform: yea they're 'party favour' cheap

hanbot: say, where's the current list of trb nodes? http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << accurate? ☟︎

asciilifeform: hanbot: the 1st two are mine ( #1 -- zoolag, which is midway through a resyncing, on account of a dead ssd ; 2nd is dulap, which is humming along )

asciilifeform: the rest, i have nfi

asciilifeform: trinque's deedbot may be one of the remaining ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( ask him re current ip )

asciilifeform: iirc jurov has a working node in europe somewhere

ben_vulpes: hanbot: .77 is mine

hanbot: yeah, ty. i wonder if it wouldn't be wise to update that list monthly as part of reporting etc. ☟︎

hanbot: aha

asciilifeform: and BingoBoingo possibly also

asciilifeform: hanbot: imho that'd be spiffy

asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu has at least 1 public node

asciilifeform: and possibly somebody else also ( shinohai ? )

asciilifeform: i don't much like the phrase 'trusted nodes', when you connect to trb node, you get plaintext tcp, and 0 guarantees re who or what you're actually talking to. ☟︎

ben_vulpes: republican outposts in the sea of shit

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: via mitmtron

ben_vulpes: world is a fuck

asciilifeform: chronically very frustrated enemy, in tilt, and he does whatever he can with his few hammers. in this case it happens to be slowing tx propagation.

asciilifeform: ( several cases documented in the logs, by mircea_popescu and others )

asciilifeform: all of the pattern 'have you seen this tx?' 'no...' 'but i sent it to your node and got an ack' ☟︎

trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701601 << correct, 3rd item ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 22:24 asciilifeform: trinque's deedbot may be one of the remaining

asciilifeform: !~later tell ben_vulpes was it you who had a trb patch abolishing the idiotic truncation of block and tx hashes in debug.log ? where did it go ?

jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'tis sitting in my workdir, did not imagine it to be useful to others

ben_vulpes: or hm where did it go

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and BingoBoingo possibly also << Yes, ip available to qualified inquirers

ben_vulpes: anyways, trivial 2-liner

ben_vulpes: if it were to be vpatched, it should abolish truncation everywhere in the codebase

ben_vulpes: i struggle to imagine the poverty of system that behavior was intended to be useful on ☟︎

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc it's 15-20 lines ( all ~same snip tho, in each, of the truncation )

ben_vulpes: sounds right by my recollection

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you find it, plox to repost

ben_vulpes: aye aye

BingoBoingo: Does anyone remember mp's piece on trilema where he talks about the capital crime of whiny bitch aggressing beyond his station?

deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/08/us-warship-named-for-minor-dynasty-suffers-casualties-after-aggressing-against-30000-ton-ten-knot-commercial-vessel/ << Qntra - US Warship Named For Minor Dynasty Suffers Casualties After Aggressing Against 30,000 Ton, Ten Knot Commercial Vessel

BingoBoingo: ^ ty alf

asciilifeform: !~later tell phf http://journal.iea.ras.ru/online/2008/EOO2008_4e.pdf << entomological various re culianu

jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

asciilifeform: !~later tell phf https://archive.is/fGAO9 << even moar entomologically, even higher quotient of crackpottery, but imho entertaining, re culianu.

jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.