asciilifeform: prolly would make moar sense to discuss 1nce we have luby/gossipd/etc

asciilifeform: ( this in re luby's algo )

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: there are actually coupla dozen (that asciilifeform knows of) schemes similar in scope to luby's -- i picked his simply cuz a) works b) minimal complexity

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: btw this is another application where box with FG wins -- generating fast-converging luby frags

asciilifeform: for yrs nao, asciilifeform thought, 'why the everliving fuck not serve page as a set of luby packets'

asciilifeform: !#s luby

asciilifeform: iirc it was a plain reed-solomon tho, not newfangled luby

asciilifeform: oh hey remember the luby-style usenet archiver thing

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re the ciphers : it's the item asciilifeform regularly comes back to, iirc most recently in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1742198 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-14#1613906 , but also we did the luby variant of same, and iirc earliest discussion was the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1589881 thing ( and mircea_popescu's various extensions of subj ) ☝︎☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform: btw i was going through my ffa notebooks and found a margin note that was actually about this, that prolly oughta go in the l0gz : if yer 'pow' is a walk-through-storage, 1 problem is that initial state of the system gives too little material to walk. so 1 interesting answer might be to include a 'ballast', consisting of, say, the first 9 yrs of classical btc blox, 1...N, that is part of the luby'd set (as raw bytes, rather than as m

asciilifeform: recall, with the luby(3 blox) thing

asciilifeform: my orig application called for 'no frag', given as already luby, so why also have ??? in the mix ruining the impedance match

asciilifeform: ( btw the standard reassembly method is quite braindamaged, those folx never apparently heard of e.g. luby )

asciilifeform: basic idea, however buried under mountain of paper rubbish, is deadly simple : instead of periodic wave, you send shaped bursts of 'static' that cover entire $band ( ideally, below noise floor ); on other side, receiver has a correspondingly-shaped filter. pulse position encoding + luby etc. for receive.

asciilifeform: box, incidentally, doesn't need to know anyffing re particulars of gossip protocol; simply verify(4096b) luby packets, rejecting old nonces, reassemble into block, and then retransmit until a newer block is assembled, then repeat ad infinitum.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831795 << piling on to this thread ftr : ~fiddybux buys you a device that can eat, 24/7, the entire 30MHz or so usable sw spectrum, and search for whatever. pulsers can then transmit short luby slices of $block pretty much wherever in said spectrum , at various times, even regardless of ionospheric season; a % of these will get eaten by $receiver, and slowly reconstitute a valid parcel. ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-31#1761781 << i gotta point out ftr, luby is recent but e.g. reed-solomon - quite bearded ☝︎

asciilifeform: prolly i'm doomed to describe a complete algo nao. so consider : no pow. a block is 2^20 bytes . it can hold a certain # of fixed-length tx ( i will not repeat earlier scheme, with the luby etc., imho it was adequate. ) ;

asciilifeform: and, i'll add, in light of the luby proof-of-storage item. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( tldr : 13125 bytes on 2sided business card , after luby )

asciilifeform: grind luby's soliton distribution, and you get a calculably vanishing probability of failure

asciilifeform: luby has one. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( yer sig gets hashed and you get to luby in 3 tx from history... )

asciilifeform walked into b00ksh0p being sold off 'by the pound' after death of owner, found there a b00k by luby (of luby code) that had nfi existed at all

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was thinking, at some point really gotta write up the luby-pow thing into a proper algo

asciilifeform reread the piece and ended up in the old luby thread, lol

asciilifeform: there is not ( and probably provably cannot be ) a 'luby for computation' ☟︎

asciilifeform: esp. the udp/luby piece (where ONE packet must somehow suffice for friend-or-foe, but it cannot >512byte! )

asciilifeform: and it was different from asciilifeform's, and did not include 'lighthouses', luby transform, a few elses

asciilifeform: and yes you can compute the odds of a particular block B ending up wholly lubyized by a time T. however if you rely on the luby strings for your mining, you will be fucked timewise.

asciilifeform: oooh gotta revisit upstack, briefly, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620677 << ~this~ in particular cannot be done as written. else, the first relayer of a freshly mined block could simply steal the work that went into determining luby(Z) and get massive head start on making his own block, which he then relays instead of the plagiarized. ☝︎

asciilifeform: and we have the luby transform above.

asciilifeform: (statistically speaking, any sequence of blocks, will eventually end up luby-coded into future blocks ! )

asciilifeform: there is no way to practically compute this value without having a copy of the blockchain. and it also ends up being luby-transformable into any one of the 3 old tx if you have the other 2. a kind of perpetual redundancy in the storage . ☟︎

asciilifeform: now if you're in ~no~ kind of hurry, and know luby algo, you can wifi.

asciilifeform: 2) consider a device of the following scheme. receives luby-coded packets via radio; if packet checksums AND has one of N lordly signatures, it is relayed (transmitted to neighbouring nodes.) otherwise, not.

asciilifeform: the other fundamental aspect, other than 'nothing-to-allcomers' is that synchronous comms over lossy media (e.g. radio) do not work well. the thing that works well is 'i'll pour a bucket of luby in your direction, and you - in mine.'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of uci, ever consider generalizing luby's algo to ~calculation~ ?

asciilifeform: (luby himself opened up a troll shop, it seems)

asciilifeform: if anyone wondered why fountain (e.g., luby's) algo is not widely used, answer is... mega-unsurprise... patent trollage

asciilifeform: (tcp, that massive barrel of liquishit, was designed before the discovery of luby code - or any of the subsequent 'fountain' algos)

asciilifeform: satellite tv outfits use a somewhat more efficient - but ~considerably~ more complex - version of luby

asciilifeform: in related nyooz, i have Luby Transform working.

asciilifeform: artifexd: a good compromise, probably, would be the Luby transform.