a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 19:28 asciilifeform: incidentally iirc we did the proof of 'if there is a good hash, there is a good blockcipher, and vice-versa'
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 23:36 asciilifeform: luby has one.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if anyone can cough up a manner to evaluate, any particular scheme, or even a comparison of a pair, i'm of course all ears.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as it happens i actually want to rescue the (classic) keccak implementation from the obvious nist-driven oblivion.
mircea_popescu: seems a good indication of merit, that they've put the effort into persuading the original poltroons into hiding it.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-16 02:57 PeterL: by the way, I stuffed the keccak ada stuff (and, speaking of OAEP, here is one of those too) into
https://github.com/PeterMLambert/keccak since I don't have my own server up yet
a111: Logged on 2017-10-06 22:38 mod6: glad to hear the progress. (im still reviewing barrett in Handbook of Applied Cryptpgraphy 14.3.3 & 14.3.4)
mircea_popescu: momentarily back to
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1721672 discussion, i must say i'm reasonably impressed that ~none of the "public discourse" in jew/faux media includes the "nobody can understand WHY"/"such INCOMPREHENSIBLE" mandatory verbiage of five years ago.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-10-06 14:30 mircea_popescu: dood had 37% the kill efficiency and 167% the wound efficiency of the wtc folks.
mircea_popescu: and so to the "curious" pretending they "have no proof" as to why and wherefore trilema is more widely read than the entire pantsuit media edifice, washpo, nytimes to the last campus libel piece TOGETHER : consider that there exists exactly one venue in the world that explains, and has been explaining that why during this interval.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 22:19 asciilifeform: phf: 'Собрал царь зверей всех животных в лесу на поляне и говорит: - Cегодня мы будем трахать тех, у кого рот маленький. Правильно ежик? - Даааааа-Даааааа! - сказал ежик. - А завтра мы будем трахать тех, у кого рот большой. Правильно бегемот? -
mircea_popescu: and in continuing lulz, "Bitcoin price is up but top Wall Streeters aren't on board"
mircea_popescu: what they were trying to say was that they... lost... again. the little bch for btc tit for tat left btc in tatters and their dwindling supply of btc ever thinner.
mod6: asciilifeform: ahh. thanks for saving me the time -- i was doing some mental gymnastics on that.
mircea_popescu: "Coinbase and the Power of Bitcoin Exchanges - Many fondly remember their first Bitcoin transaction. It likely took place on Coinbase, one of the first exchanges to serve the Western marketplace" in continuing lulz.
mod6: i.e. trying to equate your implementation to crc barrett.
mircea_popescu: dontchakno, we maybe forgot all about it, could think coinbase relevant somehow.
mod6: but i see what you mean. sorry for the interleaving Mr. P.
mircea_popescu: "Will bitcoin ever be a safe investment or always a gamble? - The boss of JP Morgan was unequivocal about bitcoin at a recent conference in New York: the digital currency was only fit for drug dealers"
mircea_popescu: i wish to fucking know, at what point has buying bitcoin been a bad strategy ?
mircea_popescu: buying jpm is a bad strategy about half the time, and bitcoin overperforms dimon by about 1000% EACH SINGLE YEAR
mod6: im pretty sure, literally no one who matters cares.
mircea_popescu: this excursion among the hallucinators has been pretty entertaining.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and while the bonuses can still be financed out of idiot retirees nesteggs, will continue to idem shit.
mircea_popescu: problem is -- nobody in current generation has what to retire on. so im guessing dimon will get a job to pay for their 401ks or w/e they need.
mircea_popescu: yes, but what will their printed pokemon cards actually do ?
mircea_popescu: their mommies are too old to leave food in front of door.
mod6: what do they call it these days? "basic universal income" ?
mircea_popescu: or what is the idea, ima give dimon food because [???] ?
mircea_popescu: what is that, smile from within a basket, torso aside ?
a111: Logged on 2015-08-19 23:55 mircea_popescu: what, "i'm a boy from tenesee here to die for some fat bitch's right to marry her dog" ?
mircea_popescu: problem is those idiots are equally willing to die for all causes.
mircea_popescu: he can shoot 60 losers for me just as well as he can push paper for dimon.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, this is the largest IN THE NEW WORLD. 2nd largest, 43 notches, francisco paula gonzalez in 64.
mircea_popescu: well, yes, but then again how many of the 500 will join the choir invisible ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: only been a day, these days medicare can keep even tom petty alive a day.
mod6: i heard dimon's daughter is into btc, we should see if she wants to do tits4btc
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, maybe get all three. 6 tits. boom.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, re-educated is right.
mod6: "what happened to mah coinz?"
mircea_popescu: so i bought this five bitcent pair of "finest brazillian shoes".
mod6: pretty nice to walk in 'eh?
mod6: wearing actually reasonable shoes has changed my life.
mod6: can wear suits everyday, and walk the mile or two that I need to every day and still be ~fine~.
mod6: wearing concrete blocks on my feet is for the birds.
mod6: ah, i bet the gel is nice.
mod6: the pairs i have are this cork that molds to my feet. which feel pretty good day to day. but i walk like 10% of what you do.
mod6: get yourself a pair of shoes. it'll change your whole outlook on shit
mircea_popescu: they're nice though, a brazillian take on the longwing brogue
mod6: i spend $400 on mine. so yah, not cheap... but shit, what a difference.
mod6: certainly a lot better than the $100 shitters.
mircea_popescu: mod6 most shoes here (as in romania, as in egypt, as in etc) are ~30.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider : i've yet to throw out a pair of shoes because ~broken~.
mircea_popescu: generally, gift extra used pairs to the help when moving out.
mod6: i've worn out one pair, they took 'em back for $100 and re-soled them.
a111: Logged on 2016-01-07 01:58 asciilifeform: relative of mine once took - very worn - pair of american shit-shoes to an old ru emigre shoemaker, asked 'what he could do.' the wizened master replied: 'i can throw these out for you'
mircea_popescu: mod6 anyway, i'm not a young man anymore. i maybe do 10km a week these days, if that.
mod6: well, if you walk for 2/3h per day, maybe don't think of them as "shoes". perhaps, "proper foot equipment" or something.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, that's about where i'm at I suppose. i have it in my mind that you do the ba walk nearly daily...
mircea_popescu: used to. i suppose this place being ~a village doesn't help.
mod6: ah, and walking up mountain sides dodging bikers in bazerker mode doesn't help
mircea_popescu: today for eg, felt like walk, but didn't feel like climbing 20% inclines, so had girl take me to park. 20km driven to walk 3 or so. imagine the decay.
☟︎ mod6: especially if it rains a lot too.
mircea_popescu: few days ago, went on uphill hike, walked until literally passed out.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: yet it was you know... 6km maybe ? piddly squat, until you consider it climbed maybe 6-700m over that distance.
mod6: yeah, hard to find the right pace sometimes.
mod6: haha, speaking of riding pace.
mod6: alf's suits must look pretty good though. i mean, he's out there walkin' through georgetown and rando frauleins are flashin their twat at him.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 16:44 asciilifeform: 'not ivan, but pyotr, and not won, but lost, and not the lottery, but at cards'
mod6: didn't some lady throw some snizz your way one day while walkin by?
mod6: her haggard old bag of a mom didn't approve? or did i dream this up?
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 01:37 mircea_popescu: few days ago, went on uphill hike, walked until literally passed out.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 01:36 mircea_popescu: today for eg, felt like walk, but didn't feel like climbing 20% inclines, so had girl take me to park. 20km driven to walk 3 or so. imagine the decay.
mod6: while i was at it, looked at crc hanbook's lehmer gcd.
mod6 also looking forward to apeloyee's pseudocode
mod6: yeah, i read the thread a few times.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-05 19:43 asciilifeform: euclidean'd be o(n^3) yes
mod6: (for those who don't have the text handy)
mod6: while b /= 0: r <-- a mod b, a <-- b, b <-- r. return (a).
mod6: 2.103: FACT If a and b are positive integers with a > b, then gcd(a, b) = gcd(b, a mod b)
mod6: 2.107 shows extended euclid that yields greatest common divisor d of two integers a and b, but also integers x and y satisfying ax + by = d
mircea_popescu: so im trying out being 70s, what. do you want me to go in unaware, end up surprised by it ?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4350.03, vol: 5177.09336958 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4359.5, vol: 16987.47514348 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4229.3316, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4359.5, vol: 2319.21013539 | Volume-weighted last average: 4357.49756913
mod6: btw, do you have a simple test harness setup for this just to assert some known output values?
mod6: i think ima make a quick one for myself just so i can see what youre sayin on stuff like that.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-02 19:31 asciilifeform: note also that the calling style from early versions will not work, there is no longer a .Z , FZ is not a struct any moar, it is just a word array
mod6: aha, one similar to that. although, indeed, that works too.
mod6: i'd like to also maybe make some unit tests around your procedures/functions.
mod6: im basically going to have to do this anyway -- this helps "fitting in mod6
mod6: ah, ok. and yah, no need to let p out of the garage until ffa is pretty much "there".
mod6: mainly, I read through them. because, there's still a lot for me to grok here. and it's easy to fool oneself into groking if you treat it like a blackbox instead of actually reading the code.
mod6: (other than the ffa-fact, which i use sometimes to try new, whole, ffa parts out)
mod6: yeah, something simple like this is a good starting spot.
mod6: sweet. is pretty interesting tho.
mod6: ahh, right. i recal.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> out of curiosity, how long the py item takes on mod6's box ? << was just saving... lemme give it a try here. want me to try it on the i5/8gb box ?
mod6: grabbed 3 runs for good measure
phf: (3s on python, 9s on cmucl, 1.2s on sbcl)
mod6: (fwiw, that machine I just ran it on has Python 2.7.9)
mod6: im gonna try it on the build-donkey box, core2duo/4gb
mod6: and same version of py there too. ok just a sec.
shinohai: Anyone have the lisp version handy?
phf: asciilifeform: wait, that seems like a cheap sleight of hand. obviously increasing number of iterations in an iterative algorithm that you gave is going to increase run time
☟︎ mircea_popescu: phf his point is that if you're going to compare fixtime with something else, better make sure you get a long case in there too.
phf: mircea_popescu: well he either has a constant time algorithm in ffa, in which case if the goal is to compare speed specifically we should be comparing fixtime ffa and fixtime something else. otherwise he has a variable time algorithm running at worst case constant time, in which case the comparison is between base operation speed, which is still going to come out on top
phf: i guess the point of this exercise is to show that iteration sizes further leak timing information
mircea_popescu: you're not having any of this new fangled "constant time ~= fixedtime ie, variable time running at worst case" ?
phf: well, it's conveniently two strategies: closed form solutions and constant iterators. if you don't have a closed form solution, you have to iterate, which you simply do at the upper bound constraint by a data type size. i don't see how theoretically it can be anything else
phf: i suspect that ffa's take on expmod is to iterate over every bigit of the exponent, which will have to perform base operations no matter what the numeric size is, but that's a guess.
phf: i'm trying to figure it out from first principles :) (i haven't had time to look at the recent, i.e. past month, versions yet)
mircea_popescu: my guess is that it's as close to closed form solutions as possible, hence all the barrett fucking etc, but then again i'm a weak programmer and a very dubious mathematician.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 16:49 mircea_popescu: my guess is that it's as close to closed form solutions as possible, hence all the barrett fucking etc, but then again i'm a weak programmer and a very dubious mathematician.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 16:26 phf: asciilifeform: wait, that seems like a cheap sleight of hand. obviously increasing number of iterations in an iterative algorithm that you gave is going to increase run time
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 19:28 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722358 << point was exactly to compare like items. i.e. heathendom does NOT get to 'win' by 'oh hey the hamming weight of exponent is only 2, not 4096, so we only do 4 modexps and not 8192'
deedbot: apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
jhvh1: apeloyee: The operation succeeded.
apeloyee: asciilifeform: turns out a simple, ffa-suitable O(N^2) algorithm exists for GCD. This is adapted from GMP docs with one extra operation in the loop:
http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oupUJ/?raw=true . Note: the code as posted is likely wrong, but I'm sure the idea can be made to work.
☟︎ apeloyee: the multiply-by-approximate quotient in barrett's also needs only the lower part (plus 2 extra bits to the left), and lower part of product can be computed exactly (since rounding is not a problem)
☟︎☟︎ deedbot: apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-05 19:38 asciilifeform: want to gcd(candidate, biggestprimorialthatfitsintheffabitness)
apeloyee:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << alternatively, can *construct* numbers which don't have very small factors. pick a nonzero remainder mod 2, mod 3, ... mod largest-prime-fit-in-your-primorial and find what number of primorial is congruent to it using chinese remainder theorem
☝︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-10-05 19:38 asciilifeform: want to gcd(candidate, biggestprimorialthatfitsintheffabitness)
apeloyee: *what number has such remainder from division by 2,3, ...
apeloyee: the primorial has to be, say, 2^32 times less than the ffa maxint. then you can add randomnumber*primorial, and such a number is equally likely to any prime from some interval
☟︎☟︎ ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: wouldja mind sharing that stage3 you build your eulora gentoos with?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 19:30 asciilifeform: i also suspect that they are in fact slower for maxhammingweight case of exponentiation and modulus, vs ffa.
phf: a whole new bignum that is
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 19:28 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722358 << point was exactly to compare like items. i.e. heathendom does NOT get to 'win' by 'oh hey the hamming weight of exponent is only 2, not 4096, so we only do 4 modexps and not 8192'
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 21:53 apeloyee: the primorial has to be, say, 2^32 times less than the ffa maxint. then you can add randomnumber*primorial, and such a number is equally likely to any prime from some interval