log
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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that makes moar sense, per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716163 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 19:28 asciilifeform: incidentally iirc we did the proof of 'if there is a good hash, there is a good blockcipher, and vice-versa'
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
asciilifeform: can also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709595 . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 23:36 asciilifeform: luby has one.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if anyone can cough up a manner to evaluate, any particular scheme, or even a comparison of a pair, i'm of course all ears.
asciilifeform: ( that last one doesn't stand on a hash )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as it happens i actually want to rescue the (classic) keccak implementation from the obvious nist-driven oblivion.
mircea_popescu: seems a good indication of merit, that they've put the effort into persuading the original poltroons into hiding it.
asciilifeform: iirc somebody here sewed one together
asciilifeform: PeterL ?
mircea_popescu: i recall his working on it ?
asciilifeform: he posted one
asciilifeform: not tested tho
mircea_popescu: !#s from:peterl keccak
a111: 0 results for "from:peterl keccak", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Apeterl%20keccak
asciilifeform: hm
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-16#1715214 ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-16 02:57 PeterL: by the way, I stuffed the keccak ada stuff (and, speaking of OAEP, here is one of those too) into https://github.com/PeterMLambert/keccak since I don't have my own server up yet
mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ^
asciilifeform: ftr i have nfi if that thing worx
asciilifeform: yet
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1722033 << lemme know mod6 if there's any part that dun immediately make sense. FZ_Make_Barrettoid looks complicated but really is identical to the optimized knuth divider, with the difference that the dividend consists of all 1s and known ahead of time, so we don't shift it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-06 22:38 mod6: glad to hear the progress. (im still reviewing barrett in Handbook of Applied Cryptpgraphy 14.3.3 & 14.3.4)
asciilifeform: ( dividend there exists solely as the 1 in FZ_ShiftLeft_O(1, Rs, Rs, 1, O); )
asciilifeform: it was made from the modulus finder from the prev ffa post ( http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/KAZki/?raw=true )
asciilifeform: ( where qw held each word of dividend, in turn, but now we put quotient bits there )
asciilifeform: mod6: you will notice that the barrett in 'crc handbook' is more complicated : it shrinks the x and then compensates later. this relies on normalization , and constanttimeized incarnation of it would have to work as apeloyee described ( i'ma try it much later, once i see what can be had re speed strictly from having asymmetric karatsuba instead of the current mega-waste ) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: momentarily back to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1721672 discussion, i must say i'm reasonably impressed that ~none of the "public discourse" in jew/faux media includes the "nobody can understand WHY"/"such INCOMPREHENSIBLE" mandatory verbiage of five years ago. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-06 14:30 mircea_popescu: dood had 37% the kill efficiency and 167% the wound efficiency of the wtc folks.
mircea_popescu: apparently they do understand why, now.
mircea_popescu: and so to the "curious" pretending they "have no proof" as to why and wherefore trilema is more widely read than the entire pantsuit media edifice, washpo, nytimes to the last campus libel piece TOGETHER : consider that there exists exactly one venue in the world that explains, and has been explaining that why during this interval.
mircea_popescu: monopoly + societal change = dominance, yes ?
mircea_popescu: or don't i understand "how the world works"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they've switched back to the 2010 tack of 'it's because he too easily found a spring to attach to his stock' etc
asciilifeform: as if d00d with 100k in the bank ( per the most recent link, he wired it to some pinoy chick ) couldn't get a proper kalash wherever
mircea_popescu: or else the valium
mircea_popescu: or else the please god, something, anything.
asciilifeform: and supposedly usg has already kidnapped the chix
asciilifeform: for kangaroo court
asciilifeform: ( and presumably the 100k ? )
mircea_popescu: lol what, the pinoy did it ?
asciilifeform: sumthing will be found, for it to have done
asciilifeform: ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1705799 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 22:19 asciilifeform: phf: 'Собрал царь зверей всех животных в лесу на поляне и говорит: - Cегодня мы будем трахать тех, у кого рот маленький. Правильно ежик? - Даааааа-Даааааа! - сказал ежик. - А завтра мы будем трахать тех, у кого рот большой. Правильно бегемот? -
mircea_popescu: and in continuing lulz, "Bitcoin price is up but top Wall Streeters aren't on board"
mircea_popescu: what they were trying to say was that they... lost... again. the little bch for btc tit for tat left btc in tatters and their dwindling supply of btc ever thinner.
asciilifeform: lolwat
asciilifeform: btc in tatters?
mircea_popescu: bch*
mod6: asciilifeform: ahh. thanks for saving me the time -- i was doing some mental gymnastics on that.
mircea_popescu: "Coinbase and the Power of Bitcoin Exchanges - Many fondly remember their first Bitcoin transaction. It likely took place on Coinbase, one of the first exchanges to serve the Western marketplace" in continuing lulz.
mod6: i.e. trying to equate your implementation to crc barrett.
mircea_popescu: dontchakno, we maybe forgot all about it, could think coinbase relevant somehow.
mod6: but i see what you mean. sorry for the interleaving Mr. P.
asciilifeform: 'bitcoin transaction... on coinbase' << lol!
asciilifeform: why not 'on mtgox' ?
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: but there's so much more!
mircea_popescu: "Will bitcoin ever be a safe investment or always a gamble? - The boss of JP Morgan was unequivocal about bitcoin at a recent conference in New York: the digital currency was only fit for drug dealers"
mircea_popescu: i wish to fucking know, at what point has buying bitcoin been a bad strategy ?
asciilifeform: btw iirc coinbase is on the list of derps who explicitly promised to pass off 2xolade ( next 'cash' ) as 'btc'
asciilifeform: and steal balances
mircea_popescu: buying jpm is a bad strategy about half the time, and bitcoin overperforms dimon by about 1000% EACH SINGLE YEAR
mircea_popescu: but that dun matter because fatlogic.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course.
mod6: ya fuck that guy.
asciilifeform: ( 2xolade like other forkolade separates from btc, but if not done correctly your btc ends up in /dev/null )
mod6: im pretty sure, literally no one who matters cares.
mircea_popescu: this excursion among the hallucinators has been pretty entertaining.
asciilifeform: looks to me like same snoar as in 2013
asciilifeform: and in between.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the latest "rape on campus" news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/48c5eb9b8e0f832f386e1d3c97de3f66/tumblr_ncubnm5p4T1tvhjvso1_400.gif
asciilifeform: complete with dimon, who shat exactly same nonsense each time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and while the bonuses can still be financed out of idiot retirees nesteggs, will continue to idem shit.
mircea_popescu: problem is -- nobody in current generation has what to retire on. so im guessing dimon will get a job to pay for their 401ks or w/e they need.
asciilifeform: dunno that they need any such thing as 'savings to plunder' -- just printolade
mircea_popescu: lol, the otaku boys club ?
mircea_popescu: what'll it do, exactly.
asciilifeform: dimon & co
mircea_popescu: yes, but what will their printed pokemon cards actually do ?
mircea_popescu: their mommies are too old to leave food in front of door.
mod6: what do they call it these days? "basic universal income" ?
mircea_popescu: or what is the idea, ima give dimon food because [???] ?
asciilifeform: same thing they did in 1790 ?
mircea_popescu: ahahaha rly.
mircea_popescu: what is that, smile from within a basket, torso aside ?
asciilifeform: for so long as the soldiers are willing to http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-19#1244654 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-08-19 23:55 mircea_popescu: what, "i'm a boy from tenesee here to die for some fat bitch's right to marry her dog" ?
mircea_popescu: problem is those idiots are equally willing to die for all causes.
mircea_popescu: why specifically dimon ?
mircea_popescu: he can shoot 60 losers for me just as well as he can push paper for dimon.
mircea_popescu: iirc, he DID.
mircea_popescu: or wait, was lockheed not bankheed
asciilifeform: problem is that 60 is fewer than die of drink in baltimoristan in a week
mircea_popescu: yes, but you know how start-ups are valued.
mircea_popescu: 60 is MOST EVER.
asciilifeform: iirc happyland was moar
mircea_popescu: afaik none were. nfi, tbh, ianaa.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/aul77 << d00d recently died, apparently
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, this is the largest IN THE NEW WORLD. 2nd largest, 43 notches, francisco paula gonzalez in 64.
mircea_popescu: #4 is some dude in colombia.
asciilifeform: happyland was in nyc
mircea_popescu: arte you going by "it was arson therefgore counts" ?
asciilifeform: notably, 'The patrons of the two-story club were either overcome by smoke or trampled to death as everyone rushed for the club’s lone exit, officials said.'
asciilifeform: so debatable.
mircea_popescu: also mostly hondurans.
asciilifeform: ( remains to be seen how many of vegas stiffs, show hoofmarks )
asciilifeform: betcha as many trampled as perforated.
mircea_popescu: well, yes, but then again how many of the 500 will join the choir invisible ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: these folx trample one another regularly, there is even a commercial 'holiday' ( 'black friday' ) when they have india-like mass tramplings fighting over misc. retail crud
mircea_popescu: only been a day, these days medicare can keep even tom petty alive a day.
mircea_popescu: or a block of cinderwood.
asciilifeform: as for 'does arson count', if d00d had just a megaphone and persuaded 500 derps to drink bleach, imho also counts.
mircea_popescu: then jamestown...
asciilifeform: megaphone, pistol, sarin-spraying drone, death rays, neutron bomb, anything.
mircea_popescu: that was ~1k iirc.
asciilifeform: approx
asciilifeform: though some of them iirc turned up with holes in'em
asciilifeform: so not 'only megaphone'
mod6: ah, jonestown
mod6: 909
mircea_popescu: right, crazy cool-aid guy
asciilifeform: iirc there is record that they applied to emigrate to su
mircea_popescu: aha!
asciilifeform: and soon thereafter 'koolaid'
asciilifeform: so asciilifeform is not sold on the Official Truth re item.
mircea_popescu: it'd be easier to ennumerate the converse list
mircea_popescu: in fact, are you sold on any official truth ?
asciilifeform: 'if it doesn't offend sense it dun get called OfficialTruth' or how it went.
mircea_popescu: lol i c
mod6: haha
mod6: i heard dimon's daughter is into btc, we should see if she wants to do tits4btc
asciilifeform: 'into btc' just as likely to mean 'into coinbase' lol
mod6: hey, whatevs
mircea_popescu: which one ? iirc he had a whole herd.
mircea_popescu: as is typical for airplane pilots and so oon
asciilifeform: can't wait for next forkbase, will be hilarious to watch the 'into btc' folx get anally reeducated
asciilifeform regularly runs into this species, 'i'm into btc!!' '...node?' 'wat's a node'
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, maybe get all three. 6 tits. boom.
mircea_popescu: heh
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, re-educated is right.
mod6: "what happened to mah coinz?"
mircea_popescu: "they were your coins like your wife."
mod6: hehehe
mircea_popescu: so i bought this five bitcent pair of "finest brazillian shoes".
mircea_popescu: they're not even terrible.
mod6: pretty nice to walk in 'eh?
mircea_popescu: yeah nb
mod6: wearing actually reasonable shoes has changed my life.
mircea_popescu: ha!
mod6: can wear suits everyday, and walk the mile or two that I need to every day and still be ~fine~.
mod6: wearing concrete blocks on my feet is for the birds.
mircea_popescu: o that part definitely.
mircea_popescu: http://www.anatomicgel.com.br/br/marca.html/ <<< i suppose it could be theoretically called handmade, pushing a point.
mircea_popescu: "artisanal", whatever.
mod6: ah, i bet the gel is nice.
mod6: the pairs i have are this cork that molds to my feet. which feel pretty good day to day. but i walk like 10% of what you do.
asciilifeform walks 2-3h/d typically
mod6: wow. that's good.
asciilifeform: i dun have any nice shoes tho. strictly chinesium.
mod6: dude.
mod6: get yourself a pair of shoes. it'll change your whole outlook on shit
mircea_popescu: nice shoes are you know, 500-1k and up.
mircea_popescu: i'd call these medium.
asciilifeform: romans walked across continent with planks tied to feet neh.
mircea_popescu: they're nice though, a brazillian take on the longwing brogue
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform neh.
mod6: i spend $400 on mine. so yah, not cheap... but shit, what a difference.
mod6: certainly a lot better than the $100 shitters.
mircea_popescu: mod6 most shoes here (as in romania, as in egypt, as in etc) are ~30.
mod6: ah, that's a deal!
mircea_popescu: hehehe
asciilifeform: recently asciilifeform bought a whole case of identical chinesium shits, because they're ~disposable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider : i've yet to throw out a pair of shoes because ~broken~.
asciilifeform believes
mircea_popescu: generally, gift extra used pairs to the help when moving out.
mod6: i've worn out one pair, they took 'em back for $100 and re-soled them.
mod6: *shrug*
mod6: like new.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-07#1362079 << see also ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-01-07 01:58 asciilifeform: relative of mine once took - very worn - pair of american shit-shoes to an old ru emigre shoemaker, asked 'what he could do.' the wizened master replied: 'i can throw these out for you'
mod6: lol
mircea_popescu: mod6 anyway, i'm not a young man anymore. i maybe do 10km a week these days, if that.
mod6: well, if you walk for 2/3h per day, maybe don't think of them as "shoes". perhaps, "proper foot equipment" or something.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, that's about where i'm at I suppose. i have it in my mind that you do the ba walk nearly daily...
mircea_popescu: used to. i suppose this place being ~a village doesn't help.
mod6: ah, and walking up mountain sides dodging bikers in bazerker mode doesn't help
mircea_popescu: today for eg, felt like walk, but didn't feel like climbing 20% inclines, so had girl take me to park. 20km driven to walk 3 or so. imagine the decay. ☟︎
mod6: especially if it rains a lot too.
mircea_popescu: few days ago, went on uphill hike, walked until literally passed out. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: went too fast.
mircea_popescu: yet it was you know... 6km maybe ? piddly squat, until you consider it climbed maybe 6-700m over that distance.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in riding rides, http://68.media.tumblr.com/4269431a5f3c1067da91f1d75f7ce9eb/tumblr_n0livoa36M1ra8e2io1_400.gif
mod6: yeah, hard to find the right pace sometimes.
mod6: haha, speaking of riding pace.
mircea_popescu: lol
mod6: alf's suits must look pretty good though. i mean, he's out there walkin' through georgetown and rando frauleins are flashin their twat at him.
mod6: winning.
asciilifeform: lolwat
asciilifeform: i dun live anywhere near georgetown; and walk in semideserted sticks, in rags.
asciilifeform: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-18#1658236 !11 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-18 16:44 asciilifeform: 'not ivan, but pyotr, and not won, but lost, and not the lottery, but at cards'
mod6: didn't some lady throw some snizz your way one day while walkin by?
mod6: her haggard old bag of a mom didn't approve? or did i dream this up?
asciilifeform: some brazilian chix yes
mod6: see! adda boy.
asciilifeform: i left it as unhandled exception, mircea_popescu laughed, we had thread
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722233 << what's yer altitude, mircea_popescu ? because i can't picture why else ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 01:37 mircea_popescu: few days ago, went on uphill hike, walked until literally passed out.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722231 << this is how asciilifeform's parents, in their 70s, walk. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 01:36 mircea_popescu: today for eg, felt like walk, but didn't feel like climbing 20% inclines, so had girl take me to park. 20km driven to walk 3 or so. imagine the decay.
asciilifeform: i'ma suppose mircea_popescu's scenery is fatally boring, must be
asciilifeform: maybe time to explore jungle, tame ocelots ?
mod6: while i was at it, looked at crc hanbook's lehmer gcd.
mod6 also looking forward to apeloyee's pseudocode
asciilifeform: mod6: i'm currently not convinced that lehmer's gcd is ffaizable.
mod6: yeah, i read the thread a few times.
asciilifeform: considering that it only wins vs euclid because 'fast comparison' , while ALL ffa comparisons are always and forever mercilessly O(N).
asciilifeform: we're prolly stuck with a muxed euclid
asciilifeform: ( fixed count of shots, derived from bitness, gotta have he proof re how many suffices )
asciilifeform: *the proof
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721500 << crc handbook (2.104 & 2.105) says O((lg n)^2) bit ops. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-05 19:43 asciilifeform: euclidean'd be o(n^3) yes
mod6: fwiw
mod6: (for those who don't have the text handy)
mod6: while b /= 0: r <-- a mod b, a <-- b, b <-- r. return (a).
mod6: 2.103: FACT If a and b are positive integers with a > b, then gcd(a, b) = gcd(b, a mod b)
mod6: 2.107 shows extended euclid that yields greatest common divisor d of two integers a and b, but also integers x and y satisfying ax + by = d
mod6: also O((lg n)^2)
asciilifeform: pretty sure that's avgcase, with heathen (variable-time) algo
asciilifeform was about to upload crc book'o'crypto and then remembered that dulap is gone...
asciilifeform: phantom limb, i tellya.
mod6: *nod*
mircea_popescu: so im trying out being 70s, what. do you want me to go in unaware, end up surprised by it ?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722059 <- yes, I got that as part of my previous log combing on this ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 00:26 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-16#1715214
shinohai: http://archive.is/4Jc5B <<< Imagine the Furher parents must have felt .....
asciilifeform: '“the year is 1935 and you have been tasked with creating a mascot to represent the Nazi party at its political rallies.” “Think about all of the information you have learned about Hitler and the Nazi party,” the assignment directed. “You will create a COLORFUL illustration of the mascot. Give the mascot a NAME. You will also write an explanation as to why the mascot was chosen to represent the Nazi party.”'
asciilifeform: lol!
asciilifeform: '...I think a formal apology should be handed out, and the teacher involved should be reprimanded,” he added. '
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4350.03, vol: 5177.09336958 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4359.5, vol: 16987.47514348 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4229.3316, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4359.5, vol: 2319.21013539 | Volume-weighted last average: 4357.49756913
mircea_popescu: anyone came up with inflatable clitler ?
BingoBoingo: You mean http://www.spencersonline.com/product/inflatable-hillary-bop-bag-12-inch/128370.uts?Extid=sf_fqntra
BingoBoingo: brb
asciilifeform: in other puzzlers, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/6l4uH/?raw=true << mod6 et al ☟︎
asciilifeform: ^ this 'upper half only' karatsuba works, but the answer is always off by 0 to 3, because the carries from the bottom halves are ( recursively ) lost. somehow gotta be finessed.
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/TgRkm/?raw=true << ordinary karatsuba, for convenient comparison.
asciilifeform: ( Karatsuba_Term is same for both )
asciilifeform: now! this procrusted-karatsuba is only used for the barrettron, so theoretically could compensate for that 3 with 3 additional subtractor-muxes. and still win ~4x speedup vs last night's . but this is mega-ugly.
asciilifeform: ( if it isn't obvious from where the error comes : observe the 3 Karatsuba_Term additions. in ordinary K., they walk over the upper half of XYLo ( lower half of result.) but in TopOnly K. we lose XYLo, so that carryolade is lost. )
asciilifeform: ... could even live with this, if i had a hard proof that it's never moar than 3.
asciilifeform: heya hanbot
asciilifeform: hanbot: wanna try yer hand at ^ puzzler ?
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/friday-night-or-las-moiras-revisited/ << Trilema - Friday night, or Las Moiras revisited.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> in other puzzlers, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/6l4uH/?raw=true << mod6 et al << /me looks
mod6: btw, do you have a simple test harness setup for this just to assert some known output values?
asciilifeform: mod6: i've been using (unreleased) 'p' as the tester.
mod6: ah. gotcha.
mod6: i think ima make a quick one for myself just so i can see what youre sayin on stuff like that.
asciilifeform: mod6: you should have one already, the factorial thing
asciilifeform: ( it will need a small adjustment in re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-02#1719728 but otherwise oughta work ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-02 19:31 asciilifeform: note also that the calling style from early versions will not work, there is no longer a .Z , FZ is not a struct any moar, it is just a word array
mod6: aha, one similar to that. although, indeed, that works too.
mod6: i'd like to also maybe make some unit tests around your procedures/functions.
asciilifeform: i've been holding off on releasing the p-interpreter because there are several quite broad changed in the way that it worx, in the pipeline, and i'd rather folx not get used to the old form.
asciilifeform: *changes
mod6: im basically going to have to do this anyway -- this helps "fitting in mod6
mod6: 's head"
asciilifeform: mod6: unit tests will work as pcode known-good in/out pairs
asciilifeform: currently i generate them with a pyturd
mod6: ah, ok. and yah, no need to let p out of the garage until ffa is pretty much "there".
asciilifeform: it is tempting, because currently i suspect that ~nobody is actually running my pastes
mod6: mainly, I read through them. because, there's still a lot for me to grok here. and it's easy to fool oneself into groking if you treat it like a blackbox instead of actually reading the code.
mod6: (other than the ffa-fact, which i use sometimes to try new, whole, ffa parts out)
asciilifeform: mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/0k78K/?raw=true << example from asciilifeform's torture room, of what his test looks like
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: ^ the 'two second' item, modexp
mod6: niiice.
mod6: yeah, something simple like this is a good starting spot.
asciilifeform: mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/H4UGn/?raw=true << for comparison, py script computing same arithm problem
asciilifeform: you can run it, get same answer.
asciilifeform: ( interestingly, it takes 3.8 sec on my box )
asciilifeform: this is even though python uses a c bignumatron internally.
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: phun phakt, this calculation is taken from the gpg autopsies last summer, when asciilifeform was chasing imaginary rng boojum after somebody found a real one
mod6: sweet. is pretty interesting tho.
mod6: ahh, right. i recal.
mod6: *recall
asciilifeform: in ffa, unlike in the python example, elongating the 0x10001 to full ffawidth will not change the required time.
asciilifeform: ( nor will anything else. )
mod6: :]
mod6: super-cool
asciilifeform: out of curiosity, how long the py item takes on mod6's box ?
mircea_popescu: and in other curiosities, did http://trilema.com/2015/okcupidcom-the-dating-site/#comment-116639 ever come to anything as far anyone knows ?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> out of curiosity, how long the py item takes on mod6's box ? << was just saving... lemme give it a try here. want me to try it on the i5/8gb box ?
mod6: running...
mod6: ok here 'tis:
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cDzHy/?raw=true
mod6: grabbed 3 runs for good measure
phf: (3s on python, 9s on cmucl, 1.2s on sbcl)
shinohai: Python - 0m3.720s for me
mod6: (fwiw, that machine I just ran it on has Python 2.7.9)
mod6: im gonna try it on the build-donkey box, core2duo/4gb
shinohai: (same)
asciilifeform: phf: now try same width exponent !
mod6: and same version of py there too. ok just a sec.
asciilifeform: betcha it won't be 1.2s nomoar
asciilifeform: on heathentron
asciilifeform bbl : meat.
mod6: ok here it is:
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/D46Hw/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: sbcl is actually the champ ?!
shinohai: Anyone have the lisp version handy?
phf: asciilifeform: wait, that seems like a cheap sleight of hand. obviously increasing number of iterations in an iterative algorithm that you gave is going to increase run time ☟︎
phf: shinohai: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZqN4y/?raw=true
shinohai: ty phf
mircea_popescu: phf his point is that if you're going to compare fixtime with something else, better make sure you get a long case in there too.
phf: mircea_popescu: well he either has a constant time algorithm in ffa, in which case if the goal is to compare speed specifically we should be comparing fixtime ffa and fixtime something else. otherwise he has a variable time algorithm running at worst case constant time, in which case the comparison is between base operation speed, which is still going to come out on top
phf: i guess the point of this exercise is to show that iteration sizes further leak timing information
mircea_popescu: you're not having any of this new fangled "constant time ~= fixedtime ie, variable time running at worst case" ?
phf: well, it's conveniently two strategies: closed form solutions and constant iterators. if you don't have a closed form solution, you have to iterate, which you simply do at the upper bound constraint by a data type size. i don't see how theoretically it can be anything else
mircea_popescu: myeah
shinohai: I get 0m1.236s using sbcl (i5) ☟︎
phf: i suspect that ffa's take on expmod is to iterate over every bigit of the exponent, which will have to perform base operations no matter what the numeric size is, but that's a guess.
mircea_popescu: why guess, tis published.
phf: i'm trying to figure it out from first principles :) (i haven't had time to look at the recent, i.e. past month, versions yet)
mircea_popescu: a
mircea_popescu: my guess is that it's as close to closed form solutions as possible, hence all the barrett fucking etc, but then again i'm a weak programmer and a very dubious mathematician. ☟︎
shinohai: http://archive.is/iDKq8 <<< Damned Gypsies!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722372 << in fact we have closed form. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 16:49 mircea_popescu: my guess is that it's as close to closed form solutions as possible, hence all the barrett fucking etc, but then again i'm a weak programmer and a very dubious mathematician.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722358 << point was exactly to compare like items. i.e. heathendom does NOT get to 'win' by 'oh hey the hamming weight of exponent is only 2, not 4096, so we only do 4 modexps and not 8192' ☝︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 16:26 phf: asciilifeform: wait, that seems like a cheap sleight of hand. obviously increasing number of iterations in an iterative algorithm that you gave is going to increase run time
asciilifeform: the interesting imho discovery is that heathen bignumtrons don't win much (or even any!) speed by normalizing the ints being added/subtracted ☟︎
asciilifeform: i also suspect that they are in fact slower for maxhammingweight case of exponentiation and modulus, vs ffa. ☟︎
asciilifeform: slow and broadcasting seekritz for miles around, whatsnottilike!!111
asciilifeform: 'старый и злой -- чем не жених!' (tm)(r)
asciilifeform: and incidentally my base cases are ultra-slow, in theory
asciilifeform: 0 asm
asciilifeform: so a word mul is actually five MULs
asciilifeform: because gotta get upper word somehow
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722376 << modmuls, not exps ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 19:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722358 << point was exactly to compare like items. i.e. heathendom does NOT get to 'win' by 'oh hey the hamming weight of exponent is only 2, not 4096, so we only do 4 modexps and not 8192'
shinohai: !!up apeloyee
deedbot: apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
apeloyee: thanks shinohai
shinohai: np!
apeloyee: !~later tell trinque I put the key at http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oRT3V/?raw=true
jhvh1: apeloyee: The operation succeeded.
apeloyee: asciilifeform: turns out a simple, ffa-suitable O(N^2) algorithm exists for GCD. This is adapted from GMP docs with one extra operation in the loop: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oupUJ/?raw=true . Note: the code as posted is likely wrong, but I'm sure the idea can be made to work. ☟︎
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722289 << and the point of doing karatsuba is? you do 2 recursive calls to Mul_Karatsuba_TopOnly and one to Mul_Karatsuba. should've simply calculated upper_part(XLo*YHi), upper_part(YLo*XHi) and XHi*YHi ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 15:17 asciilifeform: in other puzzlers, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/6l4uH/?raw=true << mod6 et al
apeloyee: the multiply-by-approximate quotient in barrett's also needs only the lower part (plus 2 extra bits to the left), and lower part of product can be computed exactly (since rounding is not a problem) ☟︎☟︎
shinohai: !!up apeloyee
deedbot: apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << i thought bernstein's "how to find smooth parts of integers" suggests a remainder tree, not gcd? ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-05 19:38 asciilifeform: want to gcd(candidate, biggestprimorialthatfitsintheffabitness)
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << alternatively, can *construct* numbers which don't have very small factors. pick a nonzero remainder mod 2, mod 3, ... mod largest-prime-fit-in-your-primorial and find what number of primorial is congruent to it using chinese remainder theorem ☝︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-05 19:38 asciilifeform: want to gcd(candidate, biggestprimorialthatfitsintheffabitness)
apeloyee: *what number has such remainder from division by 2,3, ...
apeloyee: the primorial has to be, say, 2^32 times less than the ffa maxint. then you can add randomnumber*primorial, and such a number is equally likely to any prime from some interval ☟︎☟︎
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: wouldja mind sharing that stage3 you build your eulora gentoos with? ☟︎
ben_vulpes: meanwhile, found a 20160728.tar.bz2
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722379 << this is probably true but only because ffa mutates an array of bigits, where's any language level bignum system produces a whole new one for each operation ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 19:30 asciilifeform: i also suspect that they are in fact slower for maxhammingweight case of exponentiation and modulus, vs ffa.
phf: a whole new bignum that is
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722374 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722376 << this seems contradictory, because the python thing posted is not closed form ☝︎☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 19:26 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722372 << in fact we have closed form.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 19:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722358 << point was exactly to compare like items. i.e. heathendom does NOT get to 'win' by 'oh hey the hamming weight of exponent is only 2, not 4096, so we only do 4 modexps and not 8192'
BingoBoingo: Trilema re-read of the day http://trilema.com/2014/how-i-was-wrong-cuckolding-or-a-story-about-sigmas/
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-07#1722405 << this may actually be a better check than any miller-rabin, and at any rate a good complement. gcd with primorial. ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 21:53 apeloyee: the primorial has to be, say, 2^32 times less than the ffa maxint. then you can add randomnumber*primorial, and such a number is equally likely to any prime from some interval