tmsr - Search: homomorphic

asciilifeform: it was funny, was hired in the 1st place for 'solving' problem apriori known to be a squared circle, 'homomorphic crypto'.

mircea_popescu: but yes, the relation you unearth is sound. the problem or set thereof i started discussing is exactly homomorphic to "well, we have no proper rng tests, "ou'll have to take the girl by the nose, count, and break out the abacuses.")

a111: Logged on 2017-09-15 23:48 asciilifeform: kanzure: i spilled the beans from a similar darpa conference that i attended, in the heart of the beast itself, few yrs back ( it's in the l0gz, spoiler : multilinear map homomorphic crypto is bunkum ) and still waiting for gasenwagen

ben_vulpes: https://gizmodo.com/meet-the-woman-who-leads-nightwatch-google-s-internal-1825227132 << haw haw, google 'cmu alum' attempts to get homomorphic encryption into production, discovers upon review by people who actually write instead of wank^H^Hx theoretic that it'd take more horsepower than google has worldwide

asciilifeform: shinohai: was funnier than that. idea there was that 'your' privkey is a homomorphic product of your email addr and hitler's magic pubkey. your public key is then function of your email addr and hitler's pub. you can decrypt ( and naturally hitler also decrypts ) but randos -- not

asciilifeform: ( boxes you dun physically build and boobytrap, cannot have identity, because homomorphic voodoo is just that, it sums to nil )

asciilifeform: kanzure: i spilled the beans from a similar darpa conference that i attended, in the heart of the beast itself, few yrs back ( it's in the l0gz, spoiler : multilinear map homomorphic crypto is bunkum ) and still waiting for gasenwagen ☟︎

ben_vulpes: "the guys down the office keep giving us hardons with the homomorphic encryption stuff but every time we sit down to discuss numbers it turns out to be computationally infeasible so uh here's this rest layer over postgres so you don't have to touch the dirty dirty phone numbers yourselves"

asciilifeform: aaaapparently it is supposed to be homomorphic over multisigulation. i.e. you can glom multiple sigs of same string into 'one value'.

asciilifeform: now you also want homomorphic arithmetic, looks like

mircea_popescu: you may be challenged to either show the hamiltonian in the homomorphic graph, or else to show the homomorphism between the graphs.

mircea_popescu: anyway. the encryption scheme is like this : you generate a large graph with a hamiltonian cycle ; and a homomorphic graph.

mircea_popescu: well, deciding whether two given graphs are homomorphic is > np.

asciilifeform: homomorphic-under-addition just means that you can take C1, C2, encrypted ints P1, P2, and get C3, encrypted sum, that decrypts later to the correct sum of P1+P2

asciilifeform: hey, when i worked at the godforsaken shithole with the homomorphic crud, nearby there was a furniture shop where you could buy a $30 lamp on layaway.

asciilifeform: if he homomorphic thing existed, i would be inclined to agree with mircea_popescu

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform either that or homomorphic encryption

mircea_popescu: and ALSO exactly homomorphic to why i said division doesn't belong in there.

adlai: mircea_popescu: a comment - you mention homomorphic encryption with out qualifying part- or fully. the former exists! the latter...

mircea_popescu: now hush about all this and go make me actual homomorphic encryption so i can compute platform-independent.

assbot: Logged on 05-02-2014 03:56:24; asciilifeform: i venture to say that the actual goal of general-purpose (or whatever approximation is possible) homomorphic crypto is quite different.

adlai notes that "full program obfuscation", like "fully homomorphic encryption", Exists less than even Bitcoin

assbot: Logged on 28-12-2015 22:23:53; punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-12-2015#1355490 << you mean homomorphic turds?

assbot: Logged on 05-02-2014 03:50:12; asciilifeform: there is already a hard impossibility proof of turing-complete computation in a homomorphic turd.

asciilifeform brushes up on homomorphic idiocy for his inevitable tour in шарашка

assbot: Logged on 14-11-2015 01:02:07; mircea_popescu: what the fuck is "fully homomorphic encryption" supposed to be.

mircea_popescu: what the fuck is "fully homomorphic encryption" supposed to be. ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'Expertise in any combination of the following cryptographic primitives is desired: private information retrieval, fully homomorphic encryption, pairing- or lattice-based cryptography, multi-party computation, and distributed key management architectures.' -- from a nazi help-wanted ad

ascii_field: anyway this would be more interesting if 'homomorphic crypto' weren't a sc4m

ascii_field: the (largely lysenkoine and fraudulent, but bear with me) promise of 'homomorphic' is that you can, ostensibly, make a circuit where determining function is similar to breaking rsa

ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the 'homomorphic' shit is strictly for 'secure against owner'

assbot: Logged on 05-02-2014 03:56:24; asciilifeform: i venture to say that the actual goal of general-purpose (or whatever approximation is possible) homomorphic crypto is quite different.

asciilifeform: other pertinent maths include the proof of why 'homomorphic obfuscator' is impossible in the general case

Vexual: perhaps something like this will be brave enough to invent perpect homomorphic encryption

asciilifeform: there's a reason no one but usg funds the 'homomorphic' work. it is - their wet dream.

assbot: Logged on 05-02-2014 03:56:24; asciilifeform: i venture to say that the actual goal of general-purpose (or whatever approximation is possible) homomorphic crypto is quite different.

asciilifeform: benkay: "homomorphic or semi-homomorphic" encryption, where 3 parties each control << this is an entire science. see, for instance, Pascal Paillier's boojum.

benkay: "semi homomorphic encryption and multiparty communication" is what the web tells me this snake oil is called.

benkay: ;;later tell mircea_popescu "homomorphic or semi-homomorphic" encryption, where 3 parties each control one computer working with the other two in lockstep to solve the problem.

asciilifeform: dignork: homomorphic crypto came up here many times

asciilifeform: one neglected aspect of homomorphic turdcraft (let's assume that it were possible and practical in some general-'enough' case! for the sake of argument) is:

cads: right, I guess to jump from homomorphic encryption to obfuscated computation is a natural one.

asciilifeform: btw the whole homomorphic business reminds me of an old sf story, where some malefactor stumbles upon a pair of large integers whose multiplication doesn't commute.

asciilifeform: in principle, 'all blades have two edges,' etc. but in practice, the one and only objective of the folks funding homomorphic is a kind of satanic opposite of my purpose outlined in 'don't blame the mice'

asciilifeform: i venture to say that the actual goal of general-purpose (or whatever approximation is possible) homomorphic crypto is quite different. ☟︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: the building blocks of homomorphic crypto (say, the 'millionaires protocol') are certainly interesting, not only in the mathematical but practical sense.

mircea_popescu: so inasfar as that, it may be the case homomorphic software can be in fact written that protects the key say

asciilifeform: there is already a hard impossibility proof of turing-complete computation in a homomorphic turd. ☟︎

asciilifeform: so let's say you have a homomorphic turd that signs arbitrary giblets with your key (which, for the sake of argument, assume cannot be extracted, as claimed)

asciilifeform: homomorphic crypto seems to have the ancient appeal of other proven impossibilities, like perpetuum mobile.

mircea_popescu: as the future eventualyl turns into past, what bitbet has to do and what the courts have to do are homomorphic : establish what the words say, what the facts are and how the two relate.

pigeons: Homomorphic Payment Addresses and the Pay-to-Contract Protocol http://arxiv.org/pdf/1212.3257