⏐︎ 26024
mircea_popescu: cloudflare is one of the worst things that happened to the internet recently.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why people were so derpy about sopa,
mircea_popescu: it wasn't nearly as bad as cloudflare.
pankkake: NSAFlare*
mircea_popescu: 2% ? fucking hell, they cost money and do nothing.
mircea_popescu: the same asswipe public that keeps forcing isps to do these "unlimited" bs deals and "everything for fiddy cents" and so on
mircea_popescu: those same people turn around and pay cloudlfare to... hijack their dns and talk about "rays'
dub: wat
dub: rays wat
mircea_popescu: dub sorry your message couldn't be delivered because clourflare. ray id 98759847
dub: ohj
pankkake: 2% what?
mircea_popescu: pankkake the recent netcraft report actually fucking mentions cloudflare
pankkake: oh…
pankkake: cloudflare is mostly free by the way
mircea_popescu: because that's why i read netcraft reports, for bullshit product placement.
pankkake: well, paid by the NSA
mircea_popescu: i'm so sick of this pretend fiat capitalism thing they do.
mircea_popescu: pankkake i wonder if i could get tor through cloudflare on an amazon server ?
assbot: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.C125T] 317 @ 0.01531827 = 4.8559 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: hi philip
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: philip is just a test name
testname33: hi!
mircea_popescu: lol i was thinking the same thing
kakobrekla: menstrual cycles all synced up
mircea_popescu: hahaha
mircea_popescu: i didn't know you still had menstruation in frigid slovenia.
Bugpowder: 21,000BTC short ITM puts?
herbijudlestoids: ok what about Dec 30 2014 BTCUSD price prediction
mircea_popescu: ditm
Steve__: thats a lot of puts
kakobrekla: herbijudlestoids bitbet does that
mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/ herbijudlestoids
ozbot: BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD
kakobrekla: ...
kakobrekla: told ya, its synced up
kakobrekla: -assets are now one
mircea_popescu: bitcoincube
kakobrekla: a few more days and ill set it to +m , we do not need to converse any longer
mircea_popescu: #trilema is +m
mircea_popescu: nice and peaceful
kakobrekla: but there you got all that pussy voices
mircea_popescu: yeah
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla btw you gotta go tyhrough the bash queue
ThickAsThieves: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.C125T] 317 @ 0.01531827 = 4.8559 BTC [-] <<< Bugpowder wants to play
mircea_popescu: haha is it ?
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: heavy lel @ that action bronson video
ThickAsThieves: :)
nubbins`: what sort of security guard pops up on stage and shoves the performer?
ThickAsThieves: that dude sure knows how to rap too
nubbins`: after the second shove back, i think the guard realized he was in too deep
ThickAsThieves: yeah, some force there
nubbins`: funny tho, crowd tossing joints up on stage
ThickAsThieves: looked like he might sprout horns and charge
nubbins`: he lights them and throws them back
nubbins`: lel
ThickAsThieves: people have started conspirati to say he hires people to make shit like that happen at his shows
ThickAsThieves: not the first time apparently
nubbins`: heh
ThickAsThieves: either way, nice troll then
nubbins`: nod
nubbins`: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfP7qK0khuQ
ozbot: Action Bronson - "Strictly 4 My Jeeps" (Official Video) - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: like MF Doom sending impersonators to play for him
nubbins`: more badass than 90% of rap videos
nubbins`: hahah yeah
nubbins`: imagine that
nubbins`: such a burn
nubbins`: reminds me of when billy corgan let it slip that he didn't like the way his band played on siamese dream
nubbins`: so he re-recorded all their parts himself
nubbins`: "hey, remember that landmark piece of pop culture history that you thought you were a part of?"
ThickAsThieves: lol
nubbins`: "well, turns out you're just a name in the liner notes"
ThickAsThieves: we did that in our band once
ThickAsThieves: stakes werent nearly as high
Bugpowder: Seems like a pretty cheap price
nubbins`: nod
chipug: my client freaked out. someone swore and mentioned cloudflare
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04948998 = 0.2474 BTC [-]
chipug: peta?
nubbins`: some mining turd
nubbins`: peta being an SI prefix, not an acronym
dub: ThickAsThieves: kinda like vengaboys throwing wads of cash into crowds
dub: but different
kakobrekla: lol mircea_popescu, endoftheworld.swf outside, 4 days bash queue UNACEPTABRU
kakobrekla: anyway flushed
dub: its just a big of climate change, chill out
dub: bit*
kakobrekla: chill out? its already cool.
ThickAsThieves: http://playwithcoin.com/a-land-based-casino-in-cyprus-is-now-accepting-bitcoin/
herbijudlestoids: ff27 out
herbijudlestoids: seems ok
ThickAsThieves: caps!
dub: land based casino
herbijudlestoids: dub: yea as opposed to the floating ones in macau :)
ThickAsThieves: air casino been taking btc
asciilifeform: what next, the floating, then orbiting casinos?
kakobrekla: is dat local area netword daemon '
kakobrekla: network*
ThickAsThieves: floating ones on cruises too
kakobrekla: aww i been boarded
herbijudlestoids: the floating casinos in macau are not very good imho
herbijudlestoids: i was in HK not long ago for work
ThickAsThieves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI#t=3150
ozbot: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD - YouTube
kakobrekla: yeah they should do bigint casino
ThickAsThieves: (live)
herbijudlestoids: ThickAsThieves: thx! i saw a tweet about it and wanted to watch
dub: fuck dat is?
nubbins`: ah, i remember nye vs ham
nubbins`: that's today?
asciilifeform: what qualifies as 'bigint casino'? All bets must be >= 2^64 + 1 ?
ThickAsThieves: Ham is going ham
asciilifeform: or rather, >= 2^65
nubbins`: i like his slides
nubbins`: "see? the seven Cs"
nubbins`: AHH OK I GET IT
ThickAsThieves: it's like debate via ermahgerd
ThickAsThieves: like i couldnt even debate this guy
ThickAsThieves: cuz i'd hate him for making me take these words seriously
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20782 @ 0.00093713 = 19.4754 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: if you acknowledge sin you can make better computer chips
ThickAsThieves: tell reddit!
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> lol mircea_popescu, endoftheworld.swf outside, 4 days bash queue UNACEPTABRU <<<
ThickAsThieves: JesusErupter
mircea_popescu: that's just how we roll.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i hear that was mary magdalene.
dub: kakobrekla needs to show more commitment to the team
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: This is Activemining Ken, the one based in Springfield Missouri?
kakobrekla: lol
ThickAsThieves: what?
ThickAsThieves: this?
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Jesus erupters guy.
ThickAsThieves: oh, no
ThickAsThieves: i'm refering to Ham
dub: is he drunk?
ThickAsThieves: talking about how if we accept jesus we can make better tech
ThickAsThieves: so maybe more hashes!
pankkake: jesus multiplies hashes
ThickAsThieves: turns water into whine
BingoBoingo: But Jesus preaches flatness and poverty. Satan though teaches structure and efficiency. Has he read the Divine Comedy? Hell is nothing if not organized.
mircea_popescu: more like "our delivery would be nothing short of miraculous at this pooint "
kakobrekla: hashes are like prayers, you dont know what god will use them for as you dont know what Luke-Jr will use them for
dub: havent seen much on the bitcoin is the devils one world currency tip
jayk: win 3
mircea_popescu: no, you kinda know what luje will use them for.
mircea_popescu: you just don't really wanna think about it.
dub: unless raping your own children is your deal
Luke-Jr: still trolling hard in here, I see.
nubbins`: ^ he's talking about nye vs ham
nubbins`: lel
mircea_popescu: what's a nye ?
nubbins`: bill nye, the science guy!
dub: its a bill
Luke-Jr: a hardcore evolutionist would-be dictator
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you linespoiler you :D
pankkake: I thought it was coin nye
nubbins`: :D
mircea_popescu: this was the perfect plot in my head : dub says its a bill, pankake says i thought its a coin
mircea_popescu: now you gotta go ruin my dictatorsheep.
nubbins`: we'll have to work on our timing
dub: Luke-Jr says evilldooer
mircea_popescu: why, is luke dutch ?
nubbins`: maybe if he smoked some dutch he'd figure a few things out ;(
dub: try not to die in a fire xx
nubbins`: wait a minute, i wasn't doing that before.
pankkake: my head is kinda eating itself
nubbins`: chewing your hair doesn't count
dub: mircea_popescu: please tell me you've seen Nell
dub: jodie foster at her most fuckable
mircea_popescu: i have not seen nell.
nubbins`: this bill nye thing is great
dub: get to it ffs
nubbins`: because he used to have a show explaining science to kids
nubbins`: and today he's explaining it to sub-human mouth breathers
mircea_popescu: dub i have added it to the list of films the girls will be stealing
mircea_popescu: because they wouldn't download a multiplex, or a car.
dub: perfect casting too, all she had to do was act retarded!
ThickAsThieves: tayaya inna weeen!
nubbins`: you can actually see the people in the crowd who just aren't listening
nubbins`: tough crowd
Duffer1: http://www.businessinsider.com/dogecoin-just-solved-a-problem-bitcoin-will-face-2014-2
ozbot: Dogecoin Just Solved A Problem Bitcoin Will Face - Business Insider
Duffer1: chocked full of comedy
dub: lol
BingoBoingo: Dogecoin and Business Insider were made for each other.
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 "how to spend money you don't have to pay people nobody reads to say ridiculously stupid shit which is how they got to not be read in the first place" ?
mircea_popescu: we've long solved this problem really.
mircea_popescu: you take two professional joggers and dress them up in facebook polo shirts.
herbijudlestoids: hey Duffer1: on your advice i made the thing into a blog post...aside from a kind word from jurov the response was pretty underwhelming :P http://bitquant.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/just-dice-kelly-criterion-sensitivity.html
mircea_popescu: " That's a lot to pay for a single Bitcoin for someone just entering the market. "
dub: this is why we ignore australia
mircea_popescu: seriously, this is what they write now.
pankkake: "Money, like every commodity, works best when the supply can adjust efficiently to the demand." that is EXACTLY bernankoin
pankkake: doge is still inflating less each year
pankkake: in percent
mircea_popescu: pankkake it's fascinating how they completely gloss over the part where one group (the scammers behind it) stole the resources of the rest of the people involved (every idiot that bought some, mined some, or pumped it up until two days ago) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: this happens, of course, tol ALSO be exactly how "normal" fiat currencies like the dollar operate.
mircea_popescu: fuck you granpa, so you've worked for thirty years to make the us work ? here's some inflation. enjoy your fixed income.
mircea_popescu: and the fact that this will continue happening i nthe future, arbitrarily, is like... splendeed.
nubbins`: lel
herbijudlestoids: its worse than that mircea_popescu because not all granpas get it equal
nubbins`: whenever bill nye mentions science, he makes a gesture that indicates he's talking about things that happen outside the building he's in
mircea_popescu: ofcourse.
herbijudlestoids: if you started on the fixed income 10y ago, much better than 5y ago
Duffer1: herbijudlestoids sorry to hear that mate, do you plan to keep up with the blogging?
dignork: somebody wishes to co-rent with me seedbox account? it's 14EU/mo, but I want to pay only half of it.
dignork: lol, wrong window
herbijudlestoids: Duffer1: i am thinking of writing a piece on the "market implied EPS growth rate" of MPOE, but want to verify the data that i can see on btcalpha
Duffer1: i don't know if the audience for that manner of analysis is here yet in bitcoinland, but i bet it will be sometime
kakobrekla: pankkake how do bailouts work?
herbijudlestoids: well, i did implement one of my simple mean reversion models for MPOE too, maybe a "trade this and get rich quick" blog post will be more persuasive :P
Duffer1: yea lol that'd do it, even if your blog was hokus pokus magic it'd still be popular
herbijudlestoids: im not doing this for an audience or anything, its all a matter of incidental curiosity, but i thought your suggestion was nice :)
mike_c: herbijudlestoids: you have a question about the data on btcalpha?
mircea_popescu: did you just stick with braindamaged blogspot and then whine that nobody seems to have noticed ?
pankkake: kakobrekla: for now you have to bail yourself out by printing more
pankkake: no central authority
kakobrekla: hm
kakobrekla: thats no bailout
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: lol well its not that nobody noticed, the post is *still* getting hits, was referring to a couple of the comments left on /r/BitCoin
pankkake: I'll take better ideas for YellenCoin
mircea_popescu: oic.
kakobrekla: bailout would mean no actual work was done pankkake
benkay: herbijudlestoids: https://www.fpcomplete.com/business/blog/moving-quantitative-finance-industry/
herbijudlestoids: mike_c: not a question so much as i dont know who runs/operates the website so i dunno if i can trust the data...just wanted to verify it myself
mike_c: i do.
mike_c: data is culled from monthly reports on trilema. if you want to verify yourself, there are links to all the monthly reports on the left rail of the stock page
herbijudlestoids: dont take offense, how was i supposed to know that :P
mike_c: no offense taken
mike_c: just trying to help
BingoBoingo: pankkake: For Yellencoin increase block reward as the square of the increase in mining difficulty?
nubbins`: i'd like to take a public-domain text and then typeset, silkscreen, and bind the entire thing by hand, but i'm having trouble choosing a book
nubbins`: not being religious, i can't think of a book i care enough about to put such an enormous amount of effort into
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids cause i told you like 3 days ago ?
kakobrekla: nubbins` how many pages
nubbins`: 'through the looking-glass' isn't long enough, know what i mean?
herbijudlestoids: that mike_c runs the website?
mircea_popescu: yes.
pankkake: maybe but still boring… maybe let the users "vote" on what should be the reward
nubbins`: kako, not sure. couple hundred max, maybe
herbijudlestoids: must have missed it
mircea_popescu: yes.
herbijudlestoids: benkay: hmmm is there a page on fpcomplete.com which explains what exactly fpcomplete is? :P
nubbins`: bonus points if it's something that a person might want to purchase at some point
kakobrekla: log is public domain
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Maybe do that with the Federalist Papers? For the lulz of selling fancy copies to gringos in the Estados Unidos from Canada.
nubbins`: kakobrekla, nice try ;p
nubbins`: BingoBoingo, federalist papers?
nubbins`: ah, i see
dub: the book of assets
nubbins`: log isn't really in a suitable format for books
dub: thousands of years after the great climate change cleansing a future civilisation will find it and build a religion
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.12799999 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: ok we do it
benkay: also, herbijudlestoids think bout blogging as a long term thing you do - not one-off shots that might bring some fame
BingoBoingo: dub: Or alien Archeologists.
herbijudlestoids: benkay: i srsly dun want any fame :)
benkay: mp suggested blogging as a series of notes to self, as one can't actually remember all the bullshit waded through over a significant period of time.
dub: I used to maintain a private wiki for that
nubbins`: kakobrekla: not to mention that most of log isn't worth saving in the first place ;p
herbijudlestoids: when i said "the response was underwhelming" what i meant was that for ~200 pageviews, there was only a couple of comments from parties and only some of those comments were interesting
kakobrekla: wekk a buttcoin can make you famous in a single post benkay
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
kakobrekla: i dunno what wekk is doing there
benkay: tru nuff
kakobrekla: im in bed.
mike_c: 100:1 readers to commenters isn't bad
kakobrekla: nubbins` prolly still best coffe table book, ever.
nubbins`: so much chaff tho!
mike_c: you gotta include all the images though
nubbins`: nah see that won't work
nubbins`: could do line art
kakobrekla: as ascii
nubbins`: hm, a hand-bound book of ascii pornography ☟︎
nubbins`: getting warmer...
herbijudlestoids: HAHAH ken ham!
herbijudlestoids: he has a chart, which explains to that *moron* bill nye, how moses was 500 years old
KRS-: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x1csq/an_analysis_on_huobicoms_popularity_vs_web/
herbijudlestoids: explains it all.
kakobrekla: ascii nekkid chicks with bash quoetes under
ozbot: An analysis on Huobi.com's popularity vs web traffic data. : Bitcoin
KRS-: oh hey ozbot
KRS-: .bait
ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbz7glE2Ib1qbhsq8o1_500.jpg
nubbins`: kako that's actually not bad
KRS-: Now her butt is going to smell like that countertop.
kakobrekla: sign me up for one
kakobrekla: err
kakobrekla: 10
nubbins`: fair warning, these will be expensive
kakobrekla: like arm and leg expensive?
nubbins`: well it depends on the number of pages
nubbins`: but on the scale of several hundred $ per copy
nubbins`: if it's any size
nubbins`: price decreases drastically with quantity, of cour
nubbins`: se
herbijudlestoids: ken ham is killing me
kakobrekla: any size?
dub: do all the john copypastas
dub: that shit cracks me up
nubbins`: sorry, if it's a significant number of pages :)
nubbins`: colloquialism
kakobrekla: bash is short
nubbins`: i'm thinking one ascii porn image per page
nubbins`: with say a couple of quotes
nubbins`: below or above
kakobrekla: 50 quotes or something
kakobrekla: 25 pages
jurov: illuminated letters?
nubbins`: 2 quotes per page
nubbins`: not bad
jurov: or how do they call them.. calligraphy
kakobrekla: well i was thinking more of - a paper has 2 sides
kakobrekla: or you doing one side only
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: I assume this is going to be some sweet acid free cotton paper... For Archaeologists?
nubbins`: nah, double sided
nubbins`: just like a regular book
nubbins`: ah, i see, i was picturing a couple of quotes per image
dub: fuck that
dub: find something funny
nubbins`: well natch
nubbins`: it's not just assbot
nubbins`: okay, so who can produce ascii pornography?
dub: I may have a collection
asciilifeform: emacs, 'artist mode.'
nubbins`: yeah, would need to be original
nubbins`: can't lift existing art
nubbins`: i suppose we could comb bash for the quotes
nubbins`: could even grab some choice gems from the forum
kakobrekla: thats not good for dubs chi
herbijudlestoids: nubbins`: if you google 'ascii art from images' there is plenty :)
herbijudlestoids: plenty of sites that convert images to ascii art, i mean, sorry
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: was about to say that's the same problem ;p
nubbins`: but yes, this is true
nubbins`: those generally produce enormous files tho
nubbins`: we're talking something that can fit on say an 8x10" page at 10-12pt font
herbijudlestoids: i cannot handle this fuckstick any longer
kakobrekla: stop with the slander
kakobrekla: n stuff
nubbins`: yeah, leave ken ham alone
herbijudlestoids: try this one nubbins` http://www.glassgiant.com/ascii/
nubbins`: he's had a bad day
herbijudlestoids: ken ham is my countries gift to the world :'(
nubbins`: can we re-gift him?
herbijudlestoids: no dude, no.
herbijudlestoids: lunchtiemz, banh mih i think
benkay: no gdp bets on bitbet eh
herbijudlestoids: maybe the bitcoin economy should get its own GDP and we can bet on that
jurov: if you can think how it would be measured...
nubbins`: ham is hamming it up now
dub: not going to work
dub: you'd be counting the same coin as its restolen over and over from the tardcircle
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1331 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: Gross domestic product (GDP) is the market value of all officially recognized final goods and services produced within a country in a year
herbijudlestoids: make a list of whats officially recognised final g/s and calculate then sum their MVs :P
herbijudlestoids: could be opinionated and start with just, say, bitstamp, bitpay and MPEX
jurov: mpex monthly profit would thengo into gdp?
jurov: you'd end with rather low estimate
antephialtic: or you could use the quantity theory of money to estimate it. Y = MV where Y is output, M is the size of the money supply, and V is the velocity of money. Both M and V are easily computed in the case of bitcoin
jurov: just ask MP, he designated himself as official recognizer of all things btc :D
Diablo-D3: yeah mp is just a troll
Diablo-D3: best to ignore him
chipug: who is still around?
copumpkin: not me, certainly
chipug: was hoping for some opinions
chipug: aw shame was really hoping you were still there copumpkin
chipug: :P
copumpkin: sorry!
dub: show switch
ron-: what are you showing?
dub: pnix
ron-: no!
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptible-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/
ozbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptib
dub: use image prim
dub: oh ffs
mircea_popescu: Μούσα, τραγούδα το θυμό του ξακουστού Αχιλέα,τον έρμο! etc
ron-: oh, that must be romanian?
mircea_popescu: no, that must be greek.
dub: thats quite the uri
ron-: aha
ron-: it does look greek i should know my character sets :`(
mircea_popescu: and you mustn't have liked it much in school.
ron-: only yogurt and greek goddesses
ron-: :-)
mircea_popescu: :p
chipug: it looks really nice
BingoBoingo: The Illiad ron-
mircea_popescu: the first sentence.
chipug: in a subscription crypto service, what would you want as necessity?
mircea_popescu: what's the service ?
chipug: like motley
chipug: but crypto
dub: fuck is motly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
chipug: motley fool?
chipug: http://www.fool.co.uk/
BingoBoingo: Like Trilema?
chipug: not really more interactive
mircea_popescu: <KRS-> Now her butt is going to smell like that countertop. << i'd be more worried about the reverse tbh
mircea_popescu: antephialtic how do you calculate bitcoinv?
mircea_popescu: trilema is not interactive ?!
BingoBoingo: Trilema get subscribers.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, if memory serves that thing started as a blog and became subscription based after building a base
mircea_popescu: so do the same thing, write a lot of smart insightful stuff, once you have a ton of readers add a subscription, wait for the cheapskates to butthurt away and that's that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Don't forget the form for selling credits
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the doge folly makes me wonder, what the 'greater fleas' that must surely come, will look like.
asciilifeform: i can easily picture, for example, a 'revolutionary! amazing! genuinely Alt' coin, with subtly pre-broken crypto.
BingoBoingo: http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=27
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets bash
asciilifeform: (it won't be ECC, it'll be some very spiffy looking lattice work or the like.)
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: bitcoin days destroyed is a decent estimate
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's likely actually
mircea_popescu: antephialtic how do you reason to come to this conclusion ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00093713 = 13.3072 BTC [+]
chipug: thanks guys, you know mircea_popescu i think im currently in the waiting for the butthurt folk to piss off lol
asciilifeform: more likely than borked crypto is 'underhanded c contest' shenanigans.
mircea_popescu: what's your blog ?
BingoBoingo: antephialtic: What if someone moves 100K coins from one storage address to another to lessen the chance the coins are on an address that gets vanitygen'd
asciilifeform: once we get an 'alt-artist' who is actually conversant in basic c
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is somewhat like asking for a showgirl that's read the classics.
dub: I am disappoint that you're giving it air
asciilifeform: not a physical impossibility, by any means
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13499999 BTC [+]
dub: its just teh same old brain damage
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform merely a mental impossibility :)
mircea_popescu: dub i bet you 90% of the ppl who read it because it's about doge never heard of dump and dillute.
chipug: not a blog, its a chat site. i took on coinchat and totally changed direction. its a bit dead now
mircea_popescu: how can a chat site compete with irc ?!
dub: that trilemna articicle is the single biggest peice of press todate
chipug: cus we have pictures!
asciilifeform: i dare to predict: there will come a slick charlatan who will 'improve! the crypto!'
chipug: and cats
asciilifeform: subtle mathematical boojum in the signing, or, more cleverly, a mining shortcut
mircea_popescu: dub "life is sweat and blood and making love to a woman you don't know and nobody prints your name in trilema until the day you die"
mircea_popescu: oslt.
asciilifeform: 'you read it here first'
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: actually that is incorrect. A better measure the amount of bitcoin transferred over a given period/the length of the time period. Very noisy measure, but using a larger time period smooths it out
antephialtic: * better measure is
mircea_popescu: how do you know it smooths out ?
BingoBoingo: .bait
ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0ds2hCmeQ1r75b29o1_500.jpg
BingoBoingo: Picture!
chipug: i see what you did there
chipug: man i want her shoes
mircea_popescu: someone was talking about my editor ? she's just said to me : "The price of Dogecoin, the world’s third most traded cyrptocurrency / did they seriously publish "cyrptocurrency"?"
mircea_popescu: i think this is memeworthy. the business insider cyrpt occurency.
asciilifeform: this is almost on part with the chinese 'ipnohe'.
asciilifeform: *on par
chipug: lolol
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: see this chart (https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume?showDataPoints=false&timespan=&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7), and try increasing the daysAverageString in the url
BingoBoingo: Maybe Dogecoin gets a Haircut like Cyprto depositors did
mircea_popescu: antephialtic aha. and ?
mircea_popescu: someone should make a papp to bring cyrpt to the ipnohe.
asciilifeform: cyprtocurrency.
mircea_popescu: maybe it's time for the finchcoin. cirp-cirp-urrency
ron-: does the bitcoin source on bitcoin.org allow you to generate your own custom coins?
ron-: or just client only?
mircea_popescu: with a little awk-ing it should.
asciilifeform: seriously, where are the true masters of the satanic arts. any day now there ought to appear, out of nowhere, an 'alt' genuinely better in every way. written in 50kB of nice, clean whatever. with shiny and apparently flawless, Shor-resistant crypto
ron-: oh
asciilifeform: with subtle bug...
BingoBoingo: So many things for benkay to derive revenue from if only altgen.io
ron-: i compiled it
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: have you looked at counterparty at all?
ron-: problem loading altgen
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one advantage of all the idiots being on the field is that the smart people kinda tend to just stick into the same team.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic if you expect to justify a theoretical model by the effect it has on data you are living in a state of sin.
ron-: it took me a while to compile the client, i dislike lib boost :|
ron-: well i suppose it is a server too
mircea_popescu: there's an entire rpc boondoogle.
antephialtic: antephialtic: well, in that case I'm living in a state of sin anyway because velocity is traditionally computed from output and money supply. The idea that one can measure it empirically is not really seen in mainstream economics, as far as I can tell from a brief review of the literature
ron-: it was worth doing
ron-: 1.5 hrs maybe
ron-: make -j 1200
asciilifeform: i'm entirely unconvinced that the smart people are automatically on one team.
ron-: jk
mircea_popescu: antephialtic the problem, as BingoBoingo pointed out to you, is that in your model the greatest economic activity will occur whenever a major holder moves cold wallets.
asciilifeform: just that 'the beautiful ones are not yet born.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know what happens to quarreling dogs once they see a wolf ?
KRS-: .bait
ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4oaddFTtw1qk6jw7o1_500.jpg
asciilifeform: they run?
KRS-: Cool thanks ozbot..ttyl
KRS-: ...fapfapfap
mircea_popescu: they quit bickering.
mircea_popescu: if they run or if they fight, they're doing it together.
nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/2-oscar-winners-join-tv-adaptation-of-the-book-of-negroes-1.2523057
ozbot: 2 Oscar winners join TV adaptation of The Book of Negroes - Toronto - CBC News
antephialtic: yes, I'm still thinking about a better way to measure velocity. If a good one is found it would be possible to create an altcoin with an algorithmic central bank that adjusts the block reward dynamically to target a certain output growth.
nubbins`: kakobrekla ^
mircea_popescu: antephialtic which is kind-of why i believe it fundamentally can not be measured.
mircea_popescu: you gotta give something to get something, always.
mircea_popescu: think about for a minute : i could hijack your bank's printing press just by moving my coins around ? sweet moses on a stick, this is like USD 2.0
antephialtic: yes, I agree that the concept has major game theoretic issues. But a coin that solved this issue would be useful primarily as a medium of exchange, rather than as a store of value.
mircea_popescu: why do you think the fiat role as a medium of exchange needs fixing ?
mircea_popescu: i like going aboutg with a wad of cash. works fine.
antephialtic: well, I have doubts about the long-term viability
antephialtic: of the US dollar.
mircea_popescu: right, sure. but some other scrip
mircea_popescu: what diff does it make.
nubbins`: IOUs!
mircea_popescu: you can make vanity money with your face on them
nubbins`: promissory notes
mircea_popescu: as long as you redeem them for btc... they're as good as anything
mircea_popescu: in short, the medium of exchange function of the currency is a minor.
mircea_popescu: Nadia_Comaneci du-te tu ?
Nadia_Comaneci: hi
chipug: i guess i should get a cryptsy account to get rid of these flipping dogecoins huh
mircea_popescu: just tip them to people.
herbijudlestoids: lol mircea_popescu you are literally the FOFOA of bitcoin, where s/physical gold/bitcoin/
asciilifeform: but who is the F00F of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: what's a fofoa ?
herbijudlestoids: the freegold guy
mircea_popescu: oh.
herbijudlestoids: fofoa.blogspot.com (don't hate me for blogspot)
mircea_popescu: now we see where you get your bad examples
herbijudlestoids: :P
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, you mention in a couple of articles that bitcoin is deflationary rather than inflationary, and then point to the increasing supply as evidence of this
asciilifeform: http://www.rcollins.org/ddj/May98/F00FBug.html
ozbot: The Pentium F00F Bug
mircea_popescu: believe it or not, my sum total interest for metals (precious and industrial) pre 2010 was pretty much nil.
mircea_popescu: i've looked into it since mostly to try and understand wtf is with these people
mircea_popescu: but i'm still kinda clueless.
herbijudlestoids: well, i would say freegold completely discounts and (if you believe in it) discredits all the goldbug hypothesis bullshit thats out there
mircea_popescu: nubbins` did you dyslexia there ?
nubbins`: er, sorry, yes
nubbins`: the opposite
mircea_popescu: aha k.
nubbins`: :(
nubbins`: i don't get it
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: try this one on for size, his articles are quite long but IMHO absolutely worth it (there is a part 2 if you find it interesting enough) http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/moneyness.html
mircea_popescu: kay.
nubbins`: inflation refers to good increasing in price
nubbins`: not necessarily because of an expansion of the money supply
nubbins`: although that's usually the cause
asciilifeform: nubbins`: or, more subtly, failing to decrease in price.
nubbins`: sure, yes.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` inflation has nothing to do with price.
asciilifeform: (when applicable - 'moore's law' and sequelae, etc)
nubbins`: but x bitcoins buys more goods over time
mircea_popescu: inflation is a discussion of monetary base.
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow i invent a new way to make cakes, and cake prices drop 95%
mircea_popescu: this does not mean there's been inflation in the currency
mircea_popescu: (perhaps in the cakes, i guess)
herbijudlestoids: ^
nubbins`: sure, but inflation refers to the general increase
chipug: asshole scams me for 1.6btc > denies it > emails for the new website url = areyoufuckingshittingme? feel like emailing back saying sure thing fuckwit, url costs 1.6BTC
nubbins`: not any one specific item
mircea_popescu: of the monetary base.
asciilifeform: but if the crown decides to crank up the printing press until cakes cost the same...
nubbins`: you can't say that there's deflation because pumpkins are cheap on november 1.
mircea_popescu: prices aren't a reference point for inflation tho, this is like saying she's a good lay cause she's a redhead.
herbijudlestoids: nubbins`: the modern definition of inflation is bullshit, its hedonistically adjusted and the general price includes all sorts of nonsense, which is completely disparately defined across countries
mircea_popescu: people say it all the time, but what of it.
nubbins`: sure
nubbins`: i can't speak to past definitions, but everything i'm reading says that the thing which is inflating is the price of goods
herbijudlestoids: soooo...defining inflation as a general price level increase is extremely fuzzy
mircea_popescu: well you're reading business insider then
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: hey now
nubbins`: okay, so if inflationary/deflationary is out
nubbins`: how do you verbally differentiate between a currency where purchasing power increases over time, and one where it decreases?
nubbins`: (no saucy answers plz)
mircea_popescu: purchasing power in what sense ?
mircea_popescu: as opposed to another ?
nubbins`: say, herpcoins where it's cheaper to buy an apple tomorrow than today
nubbins`: or derpdollars where it's cheaper to buy the apple today
herbijudlestoids: also purchasing power is a better proxy than inflation, because you can have inflation where the purchasing power of a dollar goes up, but also inflatoin where the purchasing power of a dollar goes down
mircea_popescu: nubbins` what's wrong with just saying "herpcoins has increased ppp and derpd's has decreased ppp ?"
nubbins`: i don't know how much apple i get, that's what's wrong
herbijudlestoids: ^
mircea_popescu: wait what ?!
nubbins`: haha
mircea_popescu: these are macro discussions
mircea_popescu: why do you expect they do anything to any one apple ?
nubbins`: how many apples are in the bag i'm buying, whatever
herbijudlestoids: then what he is saying is correct nubbins`
herbijudlestoids: because you are only asking about PP, not inflation!
nubbins`: sure
mircea_popescu: for that matter, how do you know it's the currency ?
herbijudlestoids: ^
mircea_popescu: maybe derpland has a bumper apple crop and herpfields a shortage.
mircea_popescu: maybe the one yearly boat taking apples from d to h sunk that year
mircea_popescu: i mean wtf, how did you end up pinning the world on the currency ?
nubbins`: well until five minutes ago i laboured under the impression that a 'deflationary currency' was one where the purchasing power increased over time (i.e. the cost of goods decreases)
herbijudlestoids: i wonder if i invited FOFOA to chat here he would come
mircea_popescu: ok, but this is a very naive approach
nubbins`: but i think i've just never thought this through
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids so invite him
nubbins`: who's to say purchasing power is constant over time, etc
mircea_popescu: nubbins` do you think on average bigger cars are faster ?
nubbins`: hm
herbijudlestoids: nubbins`: it is not constant. varies in a nonstationary path
mircea_popescu: i mean to some very general degree this'd perhaps be true...
mircea_popescu: at least within some margins...
nubbins`: okay, no, i definitely had my cart before my horse here
mircea_popescu: but srsly. they're not that related.
herbijudlestoids: nubbins`: http://www.oecd.org/std/prices-ppp/purchasingpowerparitiespppsdata.htm :)
nubbins`: tbh i never thought about it much until recently
mircea_popescu: well so good for you
nubbins`: not really ;(
mircea_popescu: why not ?
nubbins`: well who knows what i'd have ended up thinking about if i'd gotten it right the first time
mircea_popescu: lmao
nubbins`: the lost opportunities!
mircea_popescu: this is inflationary thinking.
jborkl: Mircea, you know I love your writing. I am not very verbose but in a non competitive way bcoinews.com . I printed that first :)
nubbins`: wait, you're saying bigger brains aren't smarter?
nubbins`: ;D
mircea_popescu: jborkl which one you mean ?
jborkl: The dogecoin one
mircea_popescu: ah
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1425 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: hey, did i get you on the blogs list ?
jborkl: No?
mircea_popescu: i didn't. let's fix.
jborkl: Ok sounds good
dub: you big tim now
dub: time*
mircea_popescu: You tried to visit bcoinews.com, which is not loading.
dub: on the mp blogroll
mircea_popescu: hm, is it down ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.145 = 0.29 BTC [+]
jborkl: Bcoinnews.com my bad typo
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/people-have-made-blogs/#comment-97937
ozbot: People have made blogs pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: there you go ;)
jborkl: I feel honored to be mentioned on there, really. Thanks Mp
mircea_popescu: hehe. took a break there for a few, did you ?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you know like i was saying to diametric the other day, this article gets a lot of wordcount mileage out of the banal
mircea_popescu: nttawwt.
jborkl: Yes, regular fiat business is booming and all the hardware I have has been taking up time basically tuning each chip
chipug: i pick the articles for their titles, not gonna lie :)
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: found any good ones ?
chipug: so many!
jborkl: I have a November jupiter up to 1th
mircea_popescu: jborkl mining huh. that great timewaster.
chipug: why do gentlemen prefer blondes? (I'm brunette - had to read lol - very good )
jborkl: Yeah it sucks
mircea_popescu: wait, you're a chick ?
chipug: yep
chipug: thats why all the bait pics ive been mentioning the shoes....
jborkl: Lol
mircea_popescu: well good for you
mircea_popescu: i didn't even know girls were allowed here.
chipug: probably not, i'm good at getting into bother
chipug: sorry if im in the way
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: some more than others, depends on who the target audience is
mircea_popescu: haha i wouldn't say that,
jborkl: Don't go into OTC and announce you are a chick.
asciilifeform: i did think that mpoe-pr lurks hidden somewhere here.
chipug: forumites like to wind me up about it
chipug: she has a good job
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform chetty is actually a girl too, the eulora chief of tech
asciilifeform: m-pr is a titan:
asciilifeform: http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered/
ozbot: Shall be Delivered | The Whet
ThickAsThieves: she said forumites, she's okay in my book
jborkl: Chipug, you Romanian also or VPN into a To freenode server
ThickAsThieves: i cant believe that text from Business Insider..
dub: think about vexual then realise the writer shares the same broken piece of genome
mircea_popescu: except vexual actually comes up with pretty good shit now and again
chipug: neither jborkl I am a scot
chipug: lol thanks ThickAsThieves
herbijudlestoids: i just looked it up ThickAsThieves
herbijudlestoids: the quote from ripple founder is retarded
herbijudlestoids: bitcoin does not have a fixed supply, i am sure if the price goes up to $1,000,000,000,000 some supply will come out of the woodwork
mircea_popescu: there's a Department of Retarded Quotes somewhere, fucking shit up.
jborkl: Ha, ripple is now some type of retarded charity now
ThickAsThieves: when did bitcoin stop responding to demand?
ThickAsThieves: i dont get it
mircea_popescu: i swear the proportion of good to retarded quotes i read can not be explained away statistically.
chipug: what was that random site that has irc quotes?
herbijudlestoids: are you adjusting for the avg IQ mircea_popescu?
herbijudlestoids: chipug: bash.org?
chipug: thats the one! thanks!
mircea_popescu: bash.bitcoin-assets.com ye heretic
asciilifeform: if by 'out of the woodwork' one means 'ECDSA crypto-break using Advanced Magic'...
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids HOW do you adjust for average iq
mircea_popescu: there's no iq.
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: i just meant, higher prices can entice supply
jborkl: Well you have to divide IQ by # of sock puppet accts
jborkl: So it is almost 0
herbijudlestoids: therefore the supply is not fixed, its just constrained by price
herbijudlestoids: (like gold :P)
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids they really go over the deep end with this "fixed" bs.
mircea_popescu: as if the total heat differential i nthe universe weren't ALSO fixed.
ThickAsThieves: the US basically perverted advertising to the degree people are at least part salesman, or part sucker. it's a sad play but so many parts to fill.
mircea_popescu: it's just... kids that grew up without any limits having psychological issues.
chipug: who does the log keeping for here? not every channel has a log do they?
mircea_popescu: see the topic eh ?
ThickAsThieves: the republik of kakobrekla
herbijudlestoids: chipug: i get paid 0.0000001 doge every day to maintain them
herbijudlestoids: its an arduous job but someone has to do
chipug: sounds like a killer deal man
herbijudlestoids: its my whole reason for living
mircea_popescu: doge can has fractions ?!
chipug: but just think of your life rolling round your doge riches..... in 2080
jborkl: No, they no do maths good. Amazing
chipug: think they are pups mircea_popescu
herbijudlestoids: hahahahahaha pooorr github user "MadCold"...he wants recourse against an open source software developer for modifying his code
herbijudlestoids: this is as good as the bill nye vs ham thing
mircea_popescu: chipug they even allow brunettes in scotland ?
chipug: 0
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids waitwhat ?!
mircea_popescu: plz to tip him a doge.
herbijudlestoids: " I still demand [Palmer] answer for what he's doing to ruin the DogeCoin currency." "
herbijudlestoids: he must answer!
ThickAsThieves: what will the answer do?
ThickAsThieves: cure the hope?
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: palmer knows what he's doing.
mircea_popescu: "for the good of the country everyone's gold must be confiscated"
mircea_popescu: "it's either that or we're bankrupt"
jborkl: Print more, that fixes all problems. Signed by the treasury
ThickAsThieves: maybe we should make a coin that isnt a coin, just percentages
mircea_popescu: all the problems of bitcoin, resolved!
ThickAsThieves: that way you know whats important
ThickAsThieves: your % of worth in the world
mircea_popescu: that's... bitcoin.
ThickAsThieves: yeah but it has decimals
jborkl: Yep, just like that- that is divisible is not important
mircea_popescu: owning a bitcoin simply means 1/12mn or w/e
ThickAsThieves: so complicated
chipug: lol sorry lay on keyboard hence the 0; mircea_popescu i got smuggled in, was born in holland :P
mircea_popescu: i wonder what the best github drama to date was
mircea_popescu: they really should run drama contests, like a pageant.
mircea_popescu: hire jerry springer.
chipug: lololol
chipug: yes
ThickAsThieves: i'm telling you man
mircea_popescu: "and then he said, I MUST EXPLAIN!!1" and I closed the pull request.
ThickAsThieves: this is nouveau performance art
chipug: what am i missing?
mircea_popescu: chipug what do you do for a living ?
chipug: exist atm mircea_popescu
ThickAsThieves: i guess i should learn all 3 words in french
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nouveau arte forestiere.
chipug: i used to be a hospital admin in a psychitric hospital for almost 8 years but they fuckedme over
ThickAsThieves: thank you sir
mircea_popescu: ok, so then you missed what github is.
dub: inb4 'would you be interested in taking insertion photos'
mircea_popescu: unlikely cause BingoBoingo seems asleep
chipug: LOL
chipug: man please
chipug: that picture
chipug: that was my first day on irc! my eyes
chipug: he is so proud of it too lol
Duffer1: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/175950-revolutionary-new-cryptography-tool-could-make-software-unhackable
ozbot: Revolutionary new cryptography tool could make software unhackable | ExtremeTech
ThickAsThieves: S.NSA crash incoming!
Duffer1: s.nsa most valuable company ever
ThickAsThieves: nice to meet another reasonable man
chipug: unhackable for how long... til someone works it out?
ThickAsThieves: all things are what they are til they arent
Duffer1: till the nsa intercepts all packages of box manufacturers and replaces them with compromised versions before sending them on
mircea_popescu: ha, fu, same principle.
ThickAsThieves: I get all my anti-spy gear from the NSA
chipug: that's what i find so funny about people talking about bitcoin safety and hacking... it's all a continual cycle nowadays and that won't change. like leapfrog
chipug: lol ThickAsThieves XD
asciilifeform: homomorphic crypto seems to have the ancient appeal of other proven impossibilities, like perpetuum mobile.
mircea_popescu: i bet you we will have a major breakthrough in homomorphisms before we have one in quantum computing.
asciilifeform: the original turd: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/02/cryptography-breakthrough/all/
asciilifeform: see 1st comment, by author
asciilifeform: (horrified author)
mircea_popescu: disqus is nullrouted onthis system
asciilifeform: Amit Sahai • a day ago
asciilifeform: I am a co-author of the research quoted in the article. I realize it is likely pointless to write this comment in an Internet forum, but let me attempt to clarify the situation, in the hope that some thoughtful participants will find it useful. Please note: I will not be monitoring this forum in the future. If you are a researcher, please feel free to contact me.
asciilifeform: 1) The title is misleading: secure obfuscation does not necessarily create "unhackable" software, whatever that means.
asciilifeform: 2) Secure obfuscation is a mathematical term of art. It is unfortunate that the word "obfuscation" has an ordinary meaning that is very different than what we mean. An analogy might be the word "countable" which for mathematicians usually refers to infinite sets, while lay readers would likely not think this way.
asciilifeform: 3) The right way to think of what secure obfuscation allows is to create, *under many technical conditions*, software that has secrets built into it. These secrets are used by the software to compute output, and yet the secrets remain hidden even if an attacker obtains the entire machine-level code of the software, which of course the attacker could run and analyze. Thus the attacker would be able to *use* the
asciilifeform: secrets only in the way that the software allows, but not recover these secrets in any way beyond that.
nubbins`: but how do you have disqussions?
asciilifeform: 4) In no direct way does secure obfuscation have anything to with DRM, software copy protection, etc.
asciilifeform: 5) Obfuscation is really a terrible name, but unfortunately it is the mathematical term that has become widely used in the academic (non-hacker) community.
asciilifeform: 6) All of this is based on mathematical computational assumptions, which may be proven false by future algorithmic advances.
asciilifeform: - end quote
asciilifeform: naturally, we have the boojum: '...the attacker would be able to *use* the secrets only in the way that the software allows...'
mircea_popescu: turns out it wasn't pointless!
asciilifeform: so let's say you have a homomorphic turd that signs arbitrary giblets with your key (which, for the sake of argument, assume cannot be extracted, as claimed)
mircea_popescu: ok
asciilifeform: and on top of that, is only willing to sign giblets beginning with 1.
asciilifeform: so fine. i extract the turd and feed it whatever i like
herbijudlestoids: giblets? :D
mircea_popescu: it's a term of art.
herbijudlestoids: no, i meant, would he like to feed his turd giblets :P
asciilifeform: there is already a hard impossibility proof of turing-complete computation in a homomorphic turd. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: that there is.
mircea_popescu: however!
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't be necessarily running a compiler there
asciilifeform: so you're stuck with some special-case exotica, that idiots will inevitably embed in conventional code.
mircea_popescu: and the case of futzing non-recursively with data is not covered.
asciilifeform: the whole field appears to be funded by the desperate 'media' conglomerates, who dream in their opium haze of unbreakable copy protection.
mircea_popescu: that'll never work.
asciilifeform: i live right outside of a big uni, whose comp sci dept. pisses out a never-ending supply of this crud.
mircea_popescu: what may work tho is indeed code that does the function of cardano in software.
asciilifeform: then the code is the key.
mircea_popescu: well yes.
asciilifeform: lift it, accomplish the same purpose.
mircea_popescu: same is true of the hw cardano.
asciilifeform: correct.
mircea_popescu: so inasfar as that, it may be the case homomorphic software can be in fact written that protects the key say
asciilifeform: anyone who wants 'software cardano' can grab 'gpg' today.
mircea_popescu: but w/o a pw.
mircea_popescu: make it be automated.
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying this is practically useful.
mircea_popescu: but it is mathematically interesting
mircea_popescu: or properly said, computer-scientifically. which is math anyway but w/e
asciilifeform: the building blocks of homomorphic crypto (say, the 'millionaires protocol') are certainly interesting, not only in the mathematical but practical sense.
mircea_popescu: well ya
asciilifeform: but for the subject of the article, one is left to wonder what problem is actually being solved
mircea_popescu: the article is in wired.
mircea_popescu: forgeddaboutit.
mircea_popescu: the problem itself tho, "make me gpg which keeps my key safge and uses no pw", is not trivial.
mircea_popescu: anyone solving this'd feel that particular elation.
asciilifeform: if it 'keeps key safe' via the whole proggy becoming the key, you haven't accomplished much
mircea_popescu: if the whole proggy is the key then it;s not safe ipso definitio
asciilifeform: i venture to say that the actual goal of general-purpose (or whatever approximation is possible) homomorphic crypto is quite different. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: but nobody seems willing to say it publicly
asciilifeform: so i'll mention it here.
asciilifeform: certain people would /love/ a mathematically-impenetrable boobytrap.
asciilifeform: that is, code with genuinely-hidden functionality
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids if you care, http://fofoa.blogspot.ro/2010/07/debtors-and-savers.html is formally incorrect on the listing of romania ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ask the guy what his research is for that list he made sometime.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform both people could use this.
asciilifeform: so, worked example:
asciilifeform: a 'soft pgp' that appears to work fine, but when you encrypt a message to a certain pubkey, the message becomes 'eat shit and die'
asciilifeform: and this fact not being deducible from the code.
mircea_popescu: or a soft obamacare, which appears to work fine, but when your name is obama an email is sent to a certain address with your vaginal probe pics.
mircea_popescu: technology helps neither side.
asciilifeform: correct. ideally one should like to be on the 'correct end of the barrel' for this one.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: asked :)
mircea_popescu: there's no way to pick really. you're on both ends always
asciilifeform: it is thus useful to know how to tell which end of the barrel you are being placed on.
mircea_popescu: and since we're speaking of,
mircea_popescu: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-08/romania-cuts-benchmark-rate-to-record-low-as-inflation-slows.html
asciilifeform: hence, if someone asks you to run homomorphically cloaked code...
ozbot: Romania Cuts Benchmark Rate to Record Low as Inflation Slows - Bloomberg
mircea_popescu: but anyway, what i was looking for is http://www.aboutinflation.com/_/rsrc/1369734125206/inflation-rate-historical/romania-inflation-rate-historical-chart/Romania_Inflation_Rate_Historical_1971_2012.png
mircea_popescu: now you look at that chart and tell me that debtors beat savers in 2000-2005 ?
asciilifeform: in principle, 'all blades have two edges,' etc. but in practice, the one and only objective of the folks funding homomorphic is a kind of satanic opposite of my purpose outlined in 'don't blame the mice'
asciilifeform: they would like to create (and then mandate) computing machinery that cannot be audited for security even in principle. ☟︎☟︎
Dimsler__: lol
Dimsler__: inflation rates are lies anyway
asciilifeform: the inevitable boojum of conventional computing is that a boobytrap, no matter how clever, could eventually be stumbled upon by some clever soviet kid with a copy of 'ida'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2012/anonimity-or-the-urban-versus-rural-dispute/
mircea_popescu: it never works. it can't work.
herbijudlestoids: hhaha wau
asciilifeform: it's a perpetuum mobile, but that never stopped the desperate idiots with infinitely deep pockets, has it.
mircea_popescu: Dimsler__ no actually these are good.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform true.
herbijudlestoids: so the inflation rate went from >40% to <10%
herbijudlestoids: err <20%
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids yes. and the early spikes aren't exactly easy money either.
mircea_popescu: romania had no consumer sector at the time
mircea_popescu: so it's not like there's something debatable really, it's entirely and flatly wrong, like a chinese man on a list of hepatic patiens.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.0009352 = 20.6679 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: btw the whole homomorphic business reminds me of an old sf story, where some malefactor stumbles upon a pair of large integers whose multiplication doesn't commute.
herbijudlestoids: i cant comment cos i dunno shit on the topic but i did fwd your statement and query on
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform haha that's a great premise
asciilifeform: greg egan, 'luminous', if i recall.
Dimsler__: http://ponzi.io/
mircea_popescu: wait, they're primes right ?
mircea_popescu: i think you can probably write a brown note novel on this, you can literally drive math people to insanity.
mircea_popescu: "two large primes whose product doesn't commute
mircea_popescu: yet the product of their squares does
mircea_popescu: but not of the 3rd powers
asciilifeform: damn if i recall. but there was a mathematical galactic battle in there
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: got a response, somewhere privatish i can send it to?
mircea_popescu: just keep going on with the description of the complexity until the reader falls over
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids sure
mircea_popescu: /query mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then, the product of the square of the first with an odd power of the second does
mircea_popescu: but viceversa... no.
mircea_popescu: and so on and so forth
asciilifeform: the premise was a little brain-fucking, yes - turned out that mathematics was a physical object, that one could fuck with
asciilifeform: by carrying out certain computations.
asciilifeform: obligatory warez copy:
asciilifeform: http://www.scribd.com/doc/86728044/Greg-Egan-Luminous
ozbot: Greg Egan - Luminous
mircea_popescu: scribd does warez ?!
asciilifeform: it does whatever the russian kids throw in, until the censors nuke it.
asciilifeform: as always.
mircea_popescu: this is so different from aaron schwarz
nubbins`: math fiction
nubbins`: great stuff
asciilifeform: damn, censored.
asciilifeform: http://bookre.org/reader?file=223021
asciilifeform: seems to be the real thing.
ozbot: BookReader - Greg Egan - Luminous (2) (Egan Greg)
nubbins`: read this story once where the law of averages stopped working
nubbins`: e.g. everyone in manhattan decides to drive across the same bridge on the same evening, etc
nubbins`: was chaos
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you mean social media.
nubbins`: heh
asciilifeform: better still, robert sheckley's 'the petrified world.'
nubbins`: technically wasn't really math fiction tho
nubbins`: most of the story was about attempts to legislate order back into society
nubbins`: only those whose surnames begin with A through F may visit the zoo on sundays, etc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.148 = 0.296 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.101 = 0.202 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 300 @ 0.00583999 = 1.752 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.148 = 0.592 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5689 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.56959993 = 1.7088 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 41 @ 0.00583999 = 0.2394 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.09111107 = 0.3644 BTC [+] {3}
herbijudlestoids: http://media.tumblr.com/0981b8439ddf0975130aa194cb13ef4c/tumblr_inline_mufk4aIl4e1raprkq.gif
herbijudlestoids: when i say dont touch the thing or youll break it, and then they touch the thing...
herbijudlestoids: now we gotta split the hypervisors into 2 clusters
herbijudlestoids: :@
herbijudlestoids: err oops sorry wrong window
herbijudlestoids: this site is my life: http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5698999 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/9VClTYt.gif this actually looks a lot like mpoe-pr baiting threads.
Namworld: What?
herbijudlestoids: easily the best bitcoin website ever: http://bitcoin-free-adclickandtasks-sites.nl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00093552 = 12.5827 BTC [+] {2}
chipug: it doesnt even fit on the page properly!
Namworld: The url tells me otherwise
chipug: lol hi Namworld
herbijudlestoids: Namworld, didn't you see it says *free*
chipug: mircea_popescu: wtf was that balloon guy thinking?!
Namworld: Yes I see it.
mircea_popescu: that dicking around with my pr is fun
mircea_popescu: the name of at least one nurse in the burns section ?
chipug: lol!
dudesir: mircea is the 30 BTC fee going to change eventually?
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: it was 20 up until glbse croaked.
mircea_popescu: it'll go to 50 eventually.
dudesir: lol I was assuming downwards, I suppose MPEX is only for those who are already rich...
Namworld: The rules are like this, dudesir: fee will only increase or stay the same.
dudesir: haha why?
Namworld: Why not?
dudesir: more users?
chipug: everything increases with time, even waistlines
herbijudlestoids: dudesir: its an exchange, do you have an account with the CME or NYSE? you have an account with your broker, who has a seat (or equiv) at the exchange
Namworld: MPEx doesn't need more members and doesn't offer much support.
Namworld: It's designed to work like any stock exchange.
Namworld: Not for everyone to sign up on.
Namworld: Only large brokers and large institutions.
Namworld: People with lower investments can use a broker like CoinBR to trade MPEx
dudesir: Does it cost 30000$ to get an acct at nyse?
Namworld: Much more than that.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5698999 BTC [+]
dignork: dudesir, actually more
herbijudlestoids: $30,000 per MONTH i am pretty sure
chipug: i could live off that for life!
dudesir: Ok, I think I understand, NYSE is like an underlying exchange and brokers are on top of it?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids was about 1.5mn per year iirc.
herbijudlestoids: and not just that but its not like you can just buy a seat at the NYSE, someone has to die or want to sell their seat
Namworld: http://www.nyse.com/press/1135856420824.html
ozbot: NYSE, New York Stock Exchange > About Us > News & Events > News Releases > Press Release 12-30-2005
Namworld: I found this, looks like about 4 million in 2005
herbijudlestoids: http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/04/031204.asp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10050 @ 0.00093454 = 9.3921 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: "However, to own a seat, a trader or broker must meet more criteria than simply being able to afford it. Prospective owners of the seats must go through a stringent review process and, once accepted, they are required to maintain high levels of compliance and ethics as the NYSE and governmental regulators constantly review members. "
herbijudlestoids: :)
mircea_popescu: well mpex users are also required to maintain high levels of compliance and ethics.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: do u need someone ethical like me to do due diligence on all your members? :P
mircea_popescu: lol
herbijudlestoids: uhoh its vexual
mircea_popescu: it's a self-performing operation. one of these days ima wake up to a report of "and then X tried to break Y" and just go "so revoke X"
dudesir: So does being a member enable you to vote on what stocks get allowed? I think I have much research to do on how the NYSE operates...
herbijudlestoids: uhoh i think my analogy has gone too far
Namworld: Nope
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, if the average person knew a whole lot of how the real world functions they'd be pretty scandalised.
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean it's 5mn and a bunch of crap and al lyou get for it is the opportunity to eat the crap ?!?!!"
mircea_popescu: "i want fries with that!11"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
herbijudlestoids: the price is only there as a barrier to entry, not as a meaningful representation of how much it costs to maintain the seat
herbijudlestoids: (on NYSE i mean)
mircea_popescu: generally.
herbijudlestoids: you get a pretty good deal for 5 mio IMHO
herbijudlestoids: naked short almost anything even unborrowed
herbijudlestoids: cancel trades
Vexual: im in a loop thinking of numbers i don't understand, but there are external govt regulators vitoing bullshit on wall street no?
mircea_popescu: sort-of.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you'
mircea_popescu: re confusing seats with specialists.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.118 = 0.944 BTC [+]
nubbins`: asciilifeform, great story
mircea_popescu: not all the people in the pit are specialists.
ThickAsThieves: vitoing, is that how italians vote?
herbijudlestoids: you cant really be a specialist without having a seat or working for a bank/insto that does
herbijudlestoids: not that there are many specialists left
herbijudlestoids: lol wut pit?
ThickAsThieves: this is a pit
herbijudlestoids: how many left and how much trading on them vs electronic outcry markets
nubbins`: your mother's pussy is a pit
nubbins`: sorry, habit
Vexual: zing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02988998 = 0.1494 BTC [-] {3}
ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg4945469#msg4945469
ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings
ThickAsThieves: NEOBEE IPVO End Date Announcement
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5699 = 1.1398 BTC [+]
Vexual: do you know what will happen to unsold shares?
ThickAsThieves: did you read the post?
Vexual: ye
ThickAsThieves: details forthcoming
Vexual: did you read my question?
Vexual: you're allowed to say no
ThickAsThieves: i'm allowed to direct you to the post actually
Vexual: thought so
Vexual: :)
Vexual: always professional tat
ThickAsThieves: hardly\
ThickAsThieves: but sometimes i can behave
ThickAsThieves: you could always say what you WANT to happen to the shares, like every other forum investor is about ti
ThickAsThieves: to*
ThickAsThieves: say = post
ThickAsThieves: time for bed
Vexual: can you say what you would want to happen with them?
ThickAsThieves: i cannot
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5699 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.04500001 = 0.675 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: its cold
Vexual: where are you? Teheran?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.55000531 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.04020196 = 0.402 BTC [-] {4}
DrSteveBrule: hello. I grabbed a lifeboat and we have not even hit the iceberg yet. Anyone else in the lifeboat with me? I have a 10 bag and a bluetooth speaker playing a bob marley mix
DrSteveBrule: ooh, and a magazine of Bears monthly. Warm fuzzy bears in my lifeboat.
benkay: dafuq?
DrSteveBrule: in other words I'm shorting all the coins
benkay: how'd you construct that position?
benkay: i see.
Vexual: sounds bent
DrSteveBrule: My apologies, I don't want to sound like one of those crazy people who just wants to come in a speak bullshit. My reasons for my current short position are 1) Elliot wave principle 2) I don't think the Chinese gov likes bitcoin 3) 4 million dollars worth of option puts bought on http://mpex.co/
DrSteveBrule: I just came here to see if anyone felt the same?
DrSteveBrule: by the way, the option puts expire this month, and the strike price was set for between $400 - $500
DrSteveBrule: that was new news to me today, so correct me if I'm wrong. But thats quite the gamble
flins: but isn't the lot size 0.1btc?
DrSteveBrule: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=449354.0
ozbot: MASSIVE options order on apex.co
DrSteveBrule: flins, i believe you are looking at the price of the option contract
DrSteveBrule: of (1) option contract
DrSteveBrule: for that specific type of contract (with end of feb expiration and strike around $400-$500) but that website is hard to understand, so I may be wrong. Coming in here to see if other see the same
benkay: ;;calc 487.9146/1000
gribble: 0.4879146
benkay: the perspective you're missing is how much that person paid for those puts.
DrSteveBrule: what do you mean?
benkay: the breakeven on the position is a function of both the strike price and price paid.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
benkay: ;;google delusions options
gribble: Delusional Disorder Guide: Causes, Symptoms and Treatment Options: <http://www.drugs.com/health-guide/delusional-disorder.html>; A Review of Delusions of Parasitosis, Part 2: Treatment Options: <http://www.pediatricnews.com/fileadmin/qhi_archive/ArticlePDF/CT/082040257.pdf>; A review of delusions of parasitosis, part 2: treatment options.: <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19055169>
DrSteveBrule: for example, i see 1000 @ 0.487 = 487 BTC with a stike at 500 / doesn't that mean they bought 1000 contracts at 0.487BTC?
benkay: ;;google serialized delusions options mpex
gribble: MPEx: The Missing Manual 5 - Account statements and transfers ...: <http://explo.yt/post/2014/01/07/MPEx%3A-The-Missing-Manual-5-(Account-statements-and-transfers)>; MPEx: The Missing Manual 1 - History and Registration - serialized ...: <http://explo.yt/post/2014/01/13/MPEx%3A-The-Missing-Manual>; serialized delusions: <http://explo.yt/>
benkay: http://explo.yt/post/2014/01/21/MPEx%3A-The-Missing-Manual-6-Options
ozbot: MPEx: The Missing Manual 6 - Options - serialized delusions
benkay: ;;calc 500/(1-0.4879)
gribble: 976.371802382
benkay: eh
benkay: building a finite state machine. can't be arsed with option pricing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [+]
benkay: discussion starts here: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2014#479849 ☝︎
benkay: DrSteveBrule:
DrSteveBrule: thanks benkay
DrSteveBrule: options are so easy to understand
DrSteveBrule: not
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
benkay: it's the world, really. most people just insulate themselves from it until that awful day it rears up in all of its raging complexity and they're forced to deal.
DrSteveBrule: yea, that should be taught in schools and in church. I believe there is a quote in the bible about options...
Apocalyptic: .d
ozbot: 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 0 blocks | Estimated Change: 19.4628% in -1d 23h 39m 51s
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 30 @ 0.005 = 0.15 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00093403 = 23.631 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.118 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1977 @ 0.00012524 = 0.2476 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15499999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.155 = 0.31 BTC [+]
Mats_cd03: So if I'm to understand, shareholders of mpex are about to get a bigger than expected dividend
benkay: "about"? has january's not gone out yet?
benkay: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin/blob/master-0.8/src/main.cpp#L3059, https://github.com/dogecoin/dogecoin/blob/master-1.5/src/main.cpp#L3141
gribble: The operation succeeded.
chipug: benkay: does gribble save the link for when mircea next logs in?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20113 @ 0.00093713 = 18.8485 BTC [+]
Mats_cd03: how do you go about getting an invite to CoinBr
dub: https://coinbr.com/ref?c=A3R7Tstq16
ozbot: About CoinBr
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.118 = 0.236 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.11985714 = 0.839 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.00584 = 0.3854 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.15499999 = 0.62 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.24310363 = 1.4586 BTC {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.569898 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: mornin
Mats_cd03: so what do i do on coinbr to invest in mp
kakobrekla: hi there
Mats_cd03: hi dere
kakobrekla: do you see the big green button in the control panel? should say "INVEST IN MP"
kakobrekla: ahh yes it doesnt, because this is not a toy computer!
kakobrekla: no but really, the "how do i invest in mp" is not a valid question
kakobrekla: you need to be more specific
kakobrekla: you want mpbor? you want mpoe shares? maybe trilema credits?
Mats_cd03: mpoe shares
kakobrekla: well you buy those then
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.12211249 = 0.9769 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
kakobrekla: blockr.io now shows bitcoin days destroyed for each tx which is kinda cute
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 94 @ 0.002999 = 0.2819 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/war-anonymous-british-spies-attacked-hackers-snowden-docs-show-n21361
herbijudlestoids: "The documents also show that JTRIG infiltrated chat rooms known as IRCs and identified individual hackers who had taken confidential information from websites."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12417 @ 0.00093818 = 11.6494 BTC [+] {2}
herbijudlestoids: "IRCs"
Mats_cd03: 'infiltrated'
herbijudlestoids: amateurs hacking amateurs
kakobrekla: i fink herbijudlestoids is nsa
kakobrekla: came out of nowhere, pasting charts n shit
kakobrekla: very suspect.
herbijudlestoids: its yall fault for supporting openbsd
herbijudlestoids: cos i wouldnve never heard about this joint otherwise
herbijudlestoids: but no, not NSA, doubt i would pass a background check :P
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: im iranian :P
kakobrekla: that is excatly what they would do to make us think we are safe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00093882 = 4.9757 BTC [+] {2}
herbijudlestoids: if you like, from now on i can upload the pictures to freenet and you can fetch them from there
herbijudlestoids: hows that!
kakobrekla: "wait wait, so his middle name is really 'osama'?" "yes garry, how convinient eh" "indeed, lets make him the director!"
herbijudlestoids: LOL
herbijudlestoids: fucker, osama is a semitic name, im iranian! we arent arabs!
kakobrekla: whatever, people think im from somalia.
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: earlier when you were mentioning homomorphic turds, i thought of this but couldnt remember the name: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/523746/honey-encryption-will-bamboozle-attackers-with-fake-secrets/
herbijudlestoids: is that in the same vein?
kakobrekla: herbijudlestoids are you also operating on fx market?
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: yep i have access to the two largest interbank ECN :)
kakobrekla: you might be interested in bit4x then
herbijudlestoids: 1 pip spread lol
kakobrekla: myea thats on the newb accounts
herbijudlestoids: this is an STP, not ECN
kakobrekla: without comission n shit
kakobrekla: o its ecn to currenex
kakobrekla: or a passthrough or whatever you wanna call it
herbijudlestoids: Straight Through Processing...thats what Currenex is. a big matching pool for retail to get fleeced
kakobrekla: right
herbijudlestoids: to give you an idea, my current broker offers a spread of 0.2 pips on EURUSD during Frankfurt/London/NY sessions
herbijudlestoids: i pay 7USD per 100,000USD lot
lippoper: !last ozbot
assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.
Apocalyptic: who's your broker herbijudlestoids ?
kakobrekla: herbijudlestoids you get about 0.5 pip on pro acc here
lippoper: ;;last ozbot
gribble: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must (1 more message)
herbijudlestoids: Apocalyptic: pepperstone in aus
kakobrekla: and no swap
kakobrekla: the point is bitcoin denomination anyway
kakobrekla: not so much scalping conditions
herbijudlestoids: waitwhat, no swap?
kakobrekla: yea ;)
herbijudlestoids: so i can pretty much guarantee youre running an unhedged book then?
kakobrekla: nope
kakobrekla: all is hedged on currenex
herbijudlestoids: and they magically require no swap of you?
kakobrekla: islam saves dude.
herbijudlestoids: HAHA
herbijudlestoids: yea, ok seriously no thanks :)
kakobrekla: you cant imagine the pain our people went through to get this.
herbijudlestoids: advice from someone who trades FX seriously, but offering STP broker, 500:1 leverage and no swap is only going to attract retail weenies to get fleeced. real FX traders like ECN, probly max 10-20:1 LVR and want their swap
kakobrekla: fleeces dont have 10 btc
kakobrekla: but your arguments re leverage n stuff are not valid
kakobrekla: but i can see how that might appear on first look
herbijudlestoids: dude
herbijudlestoids: i know FX traders. i am one.
herbijudlestoids: we joke to each other about the people who trade in STP
kakobrekla: point is elsewhere
herbijudlestoids: i will preface it and say its just my opinion, but serious traders only like to trade their money in real markets
kakobrekla: no worries
herbijudlestoids: maybe im wrong and theres a hundred props out there just drooling to short bitcoin on leverage?
kakobrekla: see, told you you have wrong ideas
kakobrekla: we dont even do that.
herbijudlestoids: oh so its only the balance denominated in bitcoins?
kakobrekla: balance, profits, losses
herbijudlestoids: well then i am even less sure why i might use this lol
kakobrekla: ask people who opened an account in 2012 with 100 btc min
herbijudlestoids: and how did the brokerage account benefit them over keeping those 100btc in a wallet?
kakobrekla: 100 btc was something like 1k usd back then
herbijudlestoids: i understand that, but when they open the account with you all they are doing is changing their ownership of 100btc into ownining a liability from you to return 100btc
kakobrekla: brokerage only benefits from good traders
kakobrekla: which make comissions
herbijudlestoids: i am not sure how that liability is inherently more profitable than the underlying asset
herbijudlestoids: look, i dont want to come off as negative nelly on your pet project
kakobrekla: profitability depends on your trading skills
herbijudlestoids: just trying to give my 2c and hope you appreciate the honesty
kakobrekla: no worries you can bark all you want
herbijudlestoids: err exactly, profitability depends on trading skills, ergo, i have nothing to ask people who opened an account with 100btc in 2012
herbijudlestoids: if they are profitable its because of their skills or luck, and if not then not. nothing to do with the BTCUSD rate.
kakobrekla: i kept my exposure to btc while operating on fx market
kakobrekla: which was the right call.
herbijudlestoids: well, while "operating" on the FX market, you took on liabilities yourself, probably in several times excess more than the net value of your BTC on several occasions, so whatever premium you earned is a risk premium, thats all, nothing special
kakobrekla: lol
kakobrekla: funny guy
herbijudlestoids: am i funny because you think im wrong? pls lemme know how your strategy goes on nonlinear event days :)
kakobrekla: assuption is the mother of all fuckup
kakobrekla: eh, assumption.
herbijudlestoids: dude. FX trader talking here. i have been in the *real* market on leverage when the liquidity evaporated, on numerous times.
herbijudlestoids: so unless youre claiming that all of your trades are operating without leverage...
kakobrekla: im not sure whats confusing you to write all the bollocks really
herbijudlestoids: im not sure which bit you think is bollocks? do you really think you didnt take on any liabilities when placing leverage trades? do you really believe that stops on currenex are honoured during liquidity events?
herbijudlestoids: if its bollocks, enlighten me
herbijudlestoids: haha!
kakobrekla: haha?
herbijudlestoids: the venetFX risk disclosure statement, points #1 and #2
herbijudlestoids: i bet they pool the accounts too
kakobrekla: who pools the accounts?
herbijudlestoids: you should send an email to venetFX asking if they pool accounts :)
kakobrekla: im in the vfx office nao
kakobrekla: i can just punch someone in the fae
kakobrekla: face
kakobrekla: anyway, i never had a case in 2 years where what you describe would be a problem
herbijudlestoids: recency bias
kakobrekla: ok
herbijudlestoids: i have experienced it trading USDJPY during the may 6 2010 flash crash
herbijudlestoids: and trading EURNZD before RBNZ comes online in the morning
herbijudlestoids: i have even had limits in EURUSD gapped during news
herbijudlestoids: on the fucken interbank...trust me...it happens
kakobrekla: im stacked with btc so whatevs
herbijudlestoids: well, i guess all i can say is i hope you never experience a 1% adverse move when youve got a 100:1 open trade :)
kakobrekla: i would never use :100
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 80 @ 0.005 = 0.4 BTC
kakobrekla: but yeah if people wanna gamble, let them gable
kakobrekla: gamble
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: in europe i like dukascopy and have an account there, but rarely use it anymore since pepperstone came to australia.
kakobrekla: aha
kakobrekla: as long as they pay...
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: i got a bunch of models for FX that i cant use, want em? :D
herbijudlestoids: i will even share them for free
kakobrekla: dunno all models are wrong
kakobrekla: some are useful
herbijudlestoids: these are models where the goal is to generate a ~10%CAGR over ~10y with low/no correlation to regular asset classes
herbijudlestoids: mostly for EURUSD since that is my bread and butter, but a couple of adaptive ones that tend to work as part of a portfolio of model
kakobrekla: why is it that you cant use them anyway
herbijudlestoids: well i build more models than i need, and only have so much capital, plus some are more tax constraining than others
herbijudlestoids: here ya go, i wrote this mean reversion model for EURUSD in R and as well an MQL4 copy, i noticed you support MT4 as the platform so this one is probly easier
herbijudlestoids: http://pastebin.com/dvMPBmjL
herbijudlestoids: basically betting against short term action and sizing based on position in the long term range
herbijudlestoids: i have a better version which uses a couple of simple regime filters somewhere, that allos the same model to work on all the major pairs...lemme see if i can find it
kakobrekla: > if(Close[1] < Close[n] && Close[1] > Close[s]) {
kakobrekla: heavy shit ;)
Apocalyptic: heh
herbijudlestoids: there ya go, here is the regime filter version http://pastebin.com/LpxA0icf
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: simplicity = robustness :)
kakobrekla: dont get me wrong
kakobrekla: i love simplicity
kakobrekla: after a year of simplicifying i ended up with 5k+ lines of code in 3 seperate processes
herbijudlestoids: i also got a follow through model somewhere, built originally for GBPUSD...called (no surprise) deconfidence, cant find it right now
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: i should clarify. these models are not for intraday use, they trade on an EOD basis
kakobrekla: ill bounce it to enky, he does evaluations n shit
herbijudlestoids: anyway, i got some more around, lemme know if you want them.
kakobrekla: let see what he sez
kakobrekla: but imo thats not what im after.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00093504 = 16.5502 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: i guess im interested to see what he has to say, the mean reversion model i actually implement is not *too* far off that ;)
herbijudlestoids: slightly different design for tax purposes
kakobrekla: sure ill fwd you the reply
kakobrekla: what is the tax issue exactly
kakobrekla: perhaps you need a btc denomination
kakobrekla: hehe.
herbijudlestoids: basically, depending on my gross income in a given year i can have my tax treated differently...trading certain positions allows me to claim them as hedges against other positions in other markets...much better tax treatment, better overall annual return
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 825 @ 0.002999 = 2.4742 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: i hire an accountant to do the legwork :P
kakobrekla: :)
herbijudlestoids: btc denomination i dont think will help me unless i plan on never repatriating any profits
herbijudlestoids: which i need to do, so i can rebalance various investments etc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 197 @ 0.0029998 = 0.591 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: hm why do you think that?
herbijudlestoids: because i have to explain to the tax office where the money in my account is coming from? and if i just say "selling bitcoins" then i have to pay 50% capital gains tax?
pizzaman1337: what country do you pay taxes to?
kakobrekla: well move then, no fx or btc gains tax here
herbijudlestoids: im in aus
kakobrekla: and that question mark on the end, does that mean you are unsure
Apocalyptic: no capital gain tax in Switzerland either
kakobrekla: well you have capital gain tax here but not for spot fx or btc
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: no not unsure, i guess i thought it was an obvoius question
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.15 = 0.3 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: trust me i am very sure about my tax treatment lol
kakobrekla: well different countries have different laws
kakobrekla: but you can also use btc directly
kakobrekla: to buy stuff
kakobrekla: like a G5 or something
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
herbijudlestoids: hehe im a lil more profitable than consumer goods can cover
herbijudlestoids: or is a G5 some kind of expensive thing i dunno about
herbijudlestoids: i thought you meant a mac :P
kakobrekla: gulfstream 5
herbijudlestoids: lel, ok im not that profitable ;)
kakobrekla: bitcoin assets : where g5 is consumer goods
Apocalyptic: heh
herbijudlestoids: i hear the US AG was in sweden today, think there is some trouble brewing over the assange case
herbijudlestoids: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3995801.ece
herbijudlestoids: o, nvm dont click, paywall
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150 @ 0.00093764 = 0.1406 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: herbijudlestoids you want the short answer or the long answer
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: always the long answer, even though i dont know which question youre referring to :D
kakobrekla: low pf, very low sortino, good to catch reversals, return is shit compared to all the risks
herbijudlestoids: lel, its not position sized? its just the model
herbijudlestoids: but coo
herbijudlestoids: o wait no it is position sized
herbijudlestoids: but coo :)
kakobrekla: we dicarded models with twice the performance of that
kakobrekla: discarded
kakobrekla: not trying to rain on your parade
kakobrekla: just sayin
herbijudlestoids: no its coo, my parade isnt exactly that but similar
herbijudlestoids: (at least for mean reversion on EURUSD)
herbijudlestoids: like i said, i write way more models than i need, store them if they make ~$10,000 from $10,000 in ~10y and discard if not
herbijudlestoids: gon watch this fullscreen, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7U-lv0uAbY pls excuse me
kakobrekla: 10k from 10k in 10 year
kakobrekla: you will be dead by the time you make money
Diablo-D3: https://plus.google.com/+UrsH%C3%B6lzle/posts/UseinB6wvmh
kakobrekla: anyway i go. later
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.24310363 = 1.2155 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0001244 = 0.1244 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1632 @ 0.00012218 = 0.1994 BTC [-] {5}
ThickAsThieves: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/9916/auroracoin-icelands-national-cryptocurrency/
ThickAsThieves: "The Auroracoin is set to release in less than two months and has a very unique distribution plan. It will give every Icelander 31.8 Auroracoins (AUC)."
chipug: thats a bloody ace idea
truffles: can we expect murrcacoin
chipug: for promotion
chipug: who is behind it?
ThickAsThieves: Iceland
ThickAsThieves: wait
ThickAsThieves: nevermind
ThickAsThieves: it's just another alt
ThickAsThieves: and now i'm officially done with Bitcoin Magazine
truffles: just another alt scheme eh
ThickAsThieves: this is much more cringe-worthy: http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/5381166/google-reaches-antitrust-agreement-with-european-regulators-over
ThickAsThieves: so much wrong in that solution
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5699 BTC [+]
truffles: splains why relevant stuff on page 2..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
ThickAsThieves: i know this might sound bad, but is there any good research on using ignorant crowds as indicators?
ThickAsThieves: something like, 85% of bitcointalk thinks A is the right choice, thus B is more likely to be correct
truffles: what one informed ?
truffles: makes^
truffles: plenty of ignorant smart ppl itc :D
ThickAsThieves: it's more about polling people that "think" or have been "taught" to think their superficial understanding is useful
ThickAsThieves: well we're all ignorant to something
ThickAsThieves: many things
truffles: but are they aware of that ignorance
ThickAsThieves: in this case no, that's the whole thing
ThickAsThieves: they are anti-intellectual
ThickAsThieves: so maybe a good indicator
ThickAsThieves: hehe
chetty: ThickAsThieves: easy, look at election results ...
truffles: well business and finance arent usually where u find the brightest bunch
truffles: IT makes me more disappoint sometimes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.15 = 0.45 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.15 = 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.106 BTC [-]
chipug: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/dread-pirate-roberts-2-0-an-interview-with-silk-roads-new-boss/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.0009345 = 5.7005 BTC [-]
Duffer1: Max Keiser, the human spambot
Duffer1: why am i following his twitter
truffles: u secrectly admire him
ThickAsThieves: you follow him because he's the most visible hardcore bitcoiner
Duffer1: i don't know if i know enough to discount his seemingly algorithmic financial-word-salad spam
Duffer1: hardcore is a good word for it
ThickAsThieves: i only pay some attention to him because of his devotion and that sometimes cooler people spend time with him
truffles: who is cooler than kaiser??
Apocalyptic: truffles, what have you been up to lately ?
truffles: not much, i did miss my fav opp :D
truffles: urself?
Apocalyptic: heh
Apocalyptic: been busy travelling
truffles: business or pleasure?
truffles: or other
Apocalyptic: kinda both :)
truffles: u eat the extra thin layer skin of pistachios?
deadweas1l: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=448847.0
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 5 @ 0.083608 = 0.418 BTC [-] {4}
truffles: thought paypal was the unsafe way to do transactions anyways
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00557127 = 0.5571 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.55110111 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00083999 = 0.126 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 322 @ 0.003 = 0.966 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.0299 = 0.1196 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: https://www.malwarebytes.org/ accepting bitcoin
punkman1: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_25057486/wisconsin-man-loses-150-000-international-bitcoin-scam
punkman1: "Concerned about the security of his digital bitcoins, Russell agreed to digitally submit 201.7 bitcoins to a man in the United Kingdom for 190 physical bitcoins"
deadweas1l: yay malwarebytes!
Diablo-D3: >190 physical bitcoins
Diablo-D3: wat
deadweas1l: he only lost 10, sounds like a deal for the ignorant.
Diablo-D3: deadweas1l: uh? he lost all of them, no?
Diablo-D3: theres no such thing as a physical bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: basically "Forumite doesn't use escrow, news at 11!"
Duffer1: sounds like he was trying to buy some cascs from a scammer
deadweas1l: taht's what I thought.
deadweas1l: so he lost all
deadweas1l: FUUUUUUUCK
deadweas1l: dumbass
Duffer1: poor guy :(
punkman1: but they were btctalk buddies for a year, such trust
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.08302001 = 0.3321 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 230 @ 0.07761573 = 17.8516 BTC [-] {19}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 129 @ 0.003 = 0.387 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vv7q-MLTyQ&feature=youtu.be
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0001205 = 0.1205 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1130 @ 0.003 = 3.39 BTC [+] {3}
Duffer1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8LfoyDFUM
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2850 @ 0.00093366 = 2.6609 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: pandora just scammed me
ThickAsThieves: told me if i watched some vido ad for 30secs i'd have 4hours of no ads
ThickAsThieves: 90 minutes later, an ad
Duffer1: spotify is better in every way
ThickAsThieves: disagree
ThickAsThieves: it is better in some ways
ThickAsThieves: not every way
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 200 @ 0.005 = 1 BTC
Duffer1: disagree :P
ThickAsThieves: pandora is way better at suggesting new music
ThickAsThieves: ive found so many new things i like from their radio
Duffer1: ok you got me there
ThickAsThieves: lol
Duffer1: their channels are more in line with the type of music you're likely looking for, spotify's radio feature just don't compare
Duffer1: doesn't
ThickAsThieves: nor does Google Music's
Duffer1: i haven't even tried gmusic
ThickAsThieves: it's pretty nice really
punkman1: that's because Pandora pays people to categorize every song
ThickAsThieves: right now my issue is iTunes exclusives
punkman1: too bad they shut it down in EU
ThickAsThieves: fucking bullshit
Duffer1: i went from pandora to grooveshark to spotify, i haven't tried google music or lastfm
Duffer1: ya lol
Duffer1: damn itunes
Duffer1: pandora is shutdown in the uk?
ThickAsThieves: i accidentally went to pandora via a EU VPN and was like uhhh wtf
punkman1: I don't think it works in the UK, not sure
ThickAsThieves: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/02/03/bitbeat-your-daily-bitcoin-round-up/
punkman1: http://www.wecoin88.com/?q=node/221
ThickAsThieves: virtual art ownership? meh
punkman1: their logo is too pixelated for me to trust them
ThickAsThieves: the site is somewhat ghetto
punkman1: http://www.tutela.net/tutelaNet.html
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: Duffer1 I like the haikus
Duffer1: ^.^
Duffer1: i'm surprised how easy it was to rhyme Popescu
ThickAsThieves: The latest Snowden-related revelation is that Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) proactively targeted the communications infrastructure used by the online activist collective known as Anonymous.
ThickAsThieves: Specifically, they implemented distributed denial of service (DDoS) attacks on the internet relay chat (IRC) rooms used by Anonymous. They also implanted malware to out the personal identity details of specific participants.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
ThickAsThieves: friggin Brits and their netsplits
Duffer1: i'm curious how they delivered the malware
ThickAsThieves: they probably had more than one option at their disposal
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.56989699 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.56989799 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
mircea_popescu: bettyclamp
mircea_popescu: whoa. so i go to call up benkay who ofcourse isn't on, and i hit on bettyclamp ? who are ye!
ThickAsThieves: Former Minnesota governor and pro wrestler Jesse Ventura is currently on the press circuit around the launch of his talk show Off the Grid, but only from an undisclosed location in Mexico, safe from the prying camera-eyes of drones. "I'm off the grid," he said in an interview with CNBC yesterday. "I move about with my TV show so that the drones can't find me, and that you won't know
ThickAsThieves: exactly where I am as long as we have solar power and we can reach the satellite."
mircea_popescu: um
ThickAsThieves: only in Americo
mircea_popescu: but if he reaches the satellite i know where he is
ThickAsThieves: also, what fuck does anyone give where he is
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well that too.
mircea_popescu: but i mean what the fuck is with these people, it's quite plain to explain that talking to a satellite is like yelling really really loudly.
ThickAsThieves: well we're criticizing the wrong problem
mircea_popescu: he imagines that "as long as i got my coffee and can yell to the wifey for sandwiches the kids don;t know where in the house i am to come asking for money" ?
ThickAsThieves: i dont think he believes what he is saying
mircea_popescu: then what's he sayin' it for.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: no he's saying it for the people that do worry about that shit
ThickAsThieves: for their votes
punkman1: he gets paid to say that shit
ThickAsThieves: or whatever
mircea_popescu: yes, but here's the problem :
mircea_popescu: he could say something intelligent that'd work just as well
mircea_popescu: bar that, he could say something unstupid that worked just as well
ThickAsThieves: if he werent pandering to anti-intellectuals maybe
mircea_popescu: his choice to say something retarded i HIS
ThickAsThieves: well as a "pro" wrestler, it's surprising he'd compromise his integrity for attention
ThickAsThieves: not
mircea_popescu: ya definitely.
ThickAsThieves: hehe
ThickAsThieves: you see the google news?
ThickAsThieves: your google will suck now
mircea_popescu: nah i've not looked outdoors yet.
ThickAsThieves: <ThickAsThieves> this is much more cringe-worthy: http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/5/5381166/google-reaches-antitrust-agreement-with-european-regulators-over
mircea_popescu: that, incidentally, would be one of the cool things to do :
mircea_popescu: a bitcoin google. you can advertise on it on the bitbet model and fu govts.
ThickAsThieves: put more search in your search bro!
mircea_popescu: it indexes anything, gl.
ThickAsThieves: well there was my custom filter idea
mircea_popescu: filter schmilter. have a spider farm
ThickAsThieves: not sure bitcoindecentralizable
mircea_popescu: have an actual coin whose pow is related to spidering websites
ThickAsThieves: hmm
ThickAsThieves: sucks to not have a legion of competent programmers at our disposal to explore every whim
mircea_popescu: we do.
Apocalyptic: i don't believe that's pow-able
mircea_popescu: sucks to onyl have a legion.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic whyssat ?
mircea_popescu: we need over 9000 legions
punkman1: spidering is the easy part, indexing and answering queries fast is the problem
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 135 @ 0.00305999 = 0.4131 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: punkman1 this is true.
mircea_popescu: the thing is, one of the fundamental business strategy mistakes google fell into is
mircea_popescu: that it picked "fast" rather than "correctly"
punkman1: like I wanted to put commoncrawl data on AWS and run my own queries, but fuck it if it's gonna cost me $20 per query
mircea_popescu: you'd rather have 5 second waits for excellent search pages than the current search pages in .5 seconds
ThickAsThieves: works well enough for most i guess
mircea_popescu: they didn't start this way, back when larry and serghey, but over the course of "business" various moles slowly optimized towards it
punkman1: not enough seconds for everyone
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves only because they don't know what they're missing.
punkman1: my biggest gripe is that exact search is no longer very exact
ThickAsThieves: indeed, my wife is actually the one who reminds me of this
mircea_popescu: for instance.
ThickAsThieves: she thinks google is too creepy and will create a small paradigm
mircea_popescu: it has already
mircea_popescu: all the fuckwitted jimothies out there are the results of the kitsch-wisdom created by google and wikipedia.
ThickAsThieves: in and of itself maybe
ThickAsThieves: but i dont get all my info from google
punkman1: Google is like the central planning office of the internet
mircea_popescu: YOU don't.
mircea_popescu: a good chunk of the people listening to jesse james or w/e the mn govt's name was do however.
mircea_popescu: and the rest they get either from people who got all their info from google and failed to understand it
mircea_popescu: or from various panderers who are too stupid to pander intelligently or at least unstupidly
ThickAsThieves: yeah the same people that go "if this surch is so great, who so slowz!"
mircea_popescu: and there it is, a full meal.
ThickAsThieves: why so slowz*
mircea_popescu: speal better!
ThickAsThieves: sometimes my brain has no idea what my fingers are doing
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/9VM9qDd.gif << tat's brain
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
ThickAsThieves: dogebrain
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/iWRYZI0.gif hahaha she rules.
ThickAsThieves: facemaking practice?
mircea_popescu: mebbe it's just cause she looks familiar.
mircea_popescu: http://media.tumblr.com/e58f0ce0f18c39950977d1233ffb13b3/tumblr_inline_msb7c8VQhK1qz4rgp.gif << this kid should ipo
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/D7ymfIc.gif
chipug: that paper towel thing was fucking great way to wake up, thanks lol
Duffer1: ?
mircea_popescu: yw
chipug: Duffer1: the 'ipo kid' gif from mircea
chipug: genius
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/is8K8zY.gif
mircea_popescu: i shoulda had a painting LIKE THAT comissioned.
Duffer1: ah the internets, restart comp, meanwhile the world changes
ThickAsThieves: is the painting happening?
mircea_popescu: i should think so
mircea_popescu: or if not there shall be CONSEQUENCES
mircea_popescu: on the internet
mircea_popescu: http://media.tumblr.com/82715e2d6552ca5b3b2d20cefcdc99cd/tumblr_inline_mqilb78pyf1qz4rgp.gif
chipug: bahaha how unlucky! i bring you a gif in return http://imgur.com/a/cV4vN?gallery
mircea_popescu: lol retards
ThickAsThieves: i can't even read the Neo thread anymore without using the PR account, I have so many people ignored
ThickAsThieves: it's probly 2 people
Duffer1: "Max Keiser ‏@maxkeiser 28s.@DogecoinCharity Nobody has created more BTC millionaires than @KeiserReport I hope you weren't left behind."
ThickAsThieves: ...
chipug: o.o
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 give him a link to http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-noobs-learn-lessons-and-pay-for-the-privilege/
mircea_popescu: he always loves being reminded i'm still wearing his anal ring.
Duffer1: ha
mircea_popescu: and if he responds anything you can always give him http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/
PiratByran: Hey, can someone do me a favor?
chipug: lol just how often do you get asked if it's you on the horse mircea_popescu?!
nubbins`: ah, the pirate bureau
mircea_popescu: funny how this shit works, too, after april he took a six months break
mircea_popescu: now he's back making the same claims
mircea_popescu: PiratByran shoot
PiratByran: Well, I was going to purchase something for my friends birthday using bitcoin.
Duffer1: i'll stay out of that one MP :P
mircea_popescu: chipug it is. not too often, more often mpoe-pr gets asked if she's a guy.
ThickAsThieves: i took care of it
PiratByran: And because of various circumstances, I had to use a convoluted method of buying bitcoins.
ThickAsThieves: https://twitter.com/maxkeiser/status/431102348421644288
ozbot: Twitter / maxkeiser: .@DogecoinCharity Nobody has ...
chipug: why will no one believe we're not lying about being girls?
nubbins`: PiratByran, many methods of buying bitcoins are convoluted
PiratByran: Doing my math wrong with fees, I came up 51 U.S. cents (.0006 btc) short.
mircea_popescu: chipug have you seen mpoe-pr ?
nubbins`: chipug: because most people are lying about it
PiratByran: I am a beggar. I will not pretend to be above that right now :P. I fucked up, and it would be very helpful for someone to donate 51 cents to me.
nubbins`: PiratByran: if you're asking for a handout, PFO
PiratByran: pfo? unfamiliar
nubbins`: ;;ud pfo
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pfo | PFO. A rejection letter received after an unsuccessful job interview. Also applicable for any polite-but-final rejection. Origin: An acronym of "Please F--k Off ".
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: pfo
PiratByran: oooo
chipug: i've seen her dp on btctalk, she's a bonny lassy, she mustve gotten same hassle, why i took pic off
mircea_popescu: dude, i'm not giving you whatever dust because that'll result in a bunch of other idiots trying to do the same.
nubbins`: ^
PiratByran: okay, no love here. sorry for the bother
mircea_popescu: gl.
nubbins`: love != charity
PiratByran: yeah, Ive been to third world contries I know that argument haha, its cool makes sense
PiratByran: just sucks having to wait quite some time for 51 cents :(
nubbins`: i love my wife, doesn't mean i give her a nickel every time she does math wrong
mircea_popescu: it's a fact, after openbsd we kept getting dudes with stuff
mircea_popescu: my twitter is fulla it etc.
chipug: 51 cents?! wtf im like 2 months behind on rent and won't beg.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, this is why people don't give
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i hope you give her a welt.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, a kiss ;(
Duffer1: ya there was also a noticeable uptick in #bitcoin-assets participation after that as well MP
mircea_popescu: "vanilla" he said derrisively.
nubbins`: hahaha
nubbins`: if only you knew
mircea_popescu: no, it's ok
ThickAsThieves: yeah the openbsd donation did bring some nice new blood
nubbins`: wasn't an offer to share ;)
chipug: i take it 51 cents are also not worth waiting for
nubbins`: well if he'd thought ahead, he would have bought a bit extra.
nubbins`: "whoops, the exchange rate changed slightly"
mircea_popescu: o wait that derpage was on twitter ?
mircea_popescu: ooookay, let's play.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` tbh, it's shitty implementation on the pp's part
chetty: 9 killed as firefighters battle a blaze that destroyed Argentine banking archives
deadweasel: burn them all! (archives)
chetty: looks like a good start on that deadweasel
Duffer1: this will end well
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/431105025985630210 <<
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: And since we're talking of ...
mircea_popescu: if anyone cares to rt, i'm sure it'll do a lot for an old man's happiness.
mircea_popescu: chetty whoa.
Duffer1: man i just watched fight club last night
Duffer1: maybe some argentinians saw it too :P
ThickAsThieves: https://twitter.com/TheRealAltcoin/status/431105094331813888 :)
ozbot: Twitter / TheRealAltcoin: @maxkeiser No. Altcoin is. ...
ThickAsThieves: also i retweeted for you
mircea_popescu: why ty.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00307997 = 0.308 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Glyn Jones @onlinementor3 · 1m
mircea_popescu: @Mircea_Popescu Hi Mircea these Four Free eBooks will really help you achieve success http://online-mentor4you.blogspot.co.uk/
mircea_popescu: no srsly.
mircea_popescu: of the whole 1bn people online i was chosen as the one who needs a little help on the topic.
ThickAsThieves: stop searching "Who is the fairest mentor of them all" then
mircea_popescu: whoa. seems i accidentally found a way to get past twitter's 140 character limit
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/431105025985630210 << hoover on the link.
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: And since we're talking of ...
ThickAsThieves: nice, now just make a hover.com and do it as a service
mircea_popescu: ya srsly.
mircea_popescu: then get VCs to finance me and spend the rest of my life eating airline food and conference rubber ducks
ThickAsThieves: althover.io
mircea_popescu: twitterstretch.in
mircea_popescu: logo could be one of those mechanical vaginal pears they had cca 1600 ☟︎
ThickAsThieves: moretwitterinyourtwitter.bro
ThickAsThieves: twitter has no spam reporting?
ThickAsThieves: nevermind
ThickAsThieves: had to log in
deadweasel: i'm soryr, can I get a link on "mechanical vaginal pears circa 1660"? i'm at work.
mircea_popescu: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/luckyyou7023/vaginal-pear-02.jpg
mircea_popescu: end spike optional
ThickAsThieves: i assumed a sppeculum
mircea_popescu: (that's really for uteral forced expansion, which is way more painful)_
ThickAsThieves: then slogan can be
deadweasel: omg, so glad I don't have a uterus
Duffer1: wow the engraving, they put a lot of effort and care into that
ThickAsThieves: Be an Asshole and put more Dick in your Tweeter
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 the artist wasn't paid so well, but he took solace in the notion his handywork will be embossed on generations of boxes.
Duffer1: ha
mircea_popescu: you know, sort-of like the hiring pitch for webdevs today
ThickAsThieves: "think of all the customer it will bring you"
mircea_popescu: deadweasel don't be that happy. http://www.bcmamedicalmuseum.org/object/i2995w.jpg
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 65 @ 0.00306 = 0.1989 BTC [-]
deadweasel: lovely, next time i need my anus dilated, I'll pick up a set.
mircea_popescu: that
mircea_popescu: s not what those are.
ThickAsThieves: penis enlargers!
mircea_popescu: vanilla weasel never saw urethral sounds.
deadweasel: oh shit.
mircea_popescu: yw.
mircea_popescu: (ps, one of the early uses of electricity...)
ThickAsThieves: today an amazing thing happened to me
deadweasel: well, i could get into that..
ThickAsThieves: a forum poster criticized my post, I retorted, and he conceded
mircea_popescu: no ?!
mircea_popescu: you have stepped in an alternate reality
deadweasel: you must be on the wrong forum
ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg4953144#msg4953144
ozbot: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It
mircea_popescu: check who controls the vertical and the horizontal.
mircea_popescu: aaahahahaha
mircea_popescu: http://media.tumblr.com/2666f75887c09590958eda247c8f15e8/tumblr_inline_mpl3opPOYZ1qz4rgp.gif
ThickAsThieves: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/tTzteY6.gif < is this sodium ?
deadweasel: that front middle kitty is veryapprehensive. middle middle kitty gives no fucks.
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/71YgV8q.gif
punkman1: looks like tin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 0.66666485 BTC to 695 shares, 95923 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: tin doesn't fragment oxidizing does it ?
mircea_popescu: it just gets a cover, like aluminum
ThickAsThieves: silica?
ThickAsThieves: i have no idea what i'm talking about
mircea_popescu: that's not metallic
mircea_popescu: this is definitely metallic
chetty: sugar
mircea_popescu: nah, i think it's an elementary substance
ThickAsThieves: aluminum
kakobreklaa: read dood.
kakobreklaa: blah power out again. bbl
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/uM8s3gQ.gif
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.119 = 0.357 BTC [+]
punkman1: mircea_popescu: yeah that's it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXB83Heh3_c
mircea_popescu: a wow wd.
mircea_popescu: tin huh
punkman1: "time lapse video of sample maintained at -40 C. 20 shots per hour."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 799 @ 0.00012794 = 0.1022 BTC [+] {4}
punkman1: mircea_popescu: will the Cardano be lead-free or anything?
mircea_popescu: i know it'll be gold plated, but i doubt it'll be lead free
mircea_popescu: we're capitalists not environmentalists over here
asciilifeform: i've always thought of my gear puller as 'the pear'
asciilifeform: (similar: http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/Photos/tools/plomb_4070_gear_puller_38_cropped.jpg)
Duffer1: pff it's not green? /dealbreaker
punkman1: wouldn't want any tin whiskers
mircea_popescu: it's not green its golden.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform srsly, all that molten solder you've been breathing / spreading aroud the kitchen
mircea_popescu: it has lead and arsenic in it rite ?
punkman1: the smoke is just flux though
mircea_popescu: so you tihnk
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 468 @ 0.00083998 = 0.3931 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.12113333 = 0.3634 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/0RArhfs.gif << now that's aptitude.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.129 = 0.903 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.55110013 = 1.1022 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 82 @ 0.00551447 = 0.4522 BTC [-] {6}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Sn / Bi alloy.
mircea_popescu: aww. and i thought the units could double as art!
asciilifeform: melting point 138C.
asciilifeform: PCB is lead-free, ICs aren't.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.550002 = 2.75 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.13 = 0.52 BTC [+]
punkman1: hmm so tin whiskers do indeed have to do with this "tin pest" reaction
mircea_popescu: kinda hard to make semiconductors lead free.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.12400001 = 0.248 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5250
ozbot: Tin Whiskers Are Real and Complex - Tutorial - Maxim
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/T5PnOJl.gif
the20year1: RentalStarter will be live for purchase on havelock Friday
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.135 = 0.27 BTC [+]
Duffer1: grats man
the20year1: I'm happy
nubbins`: i'm happy too
nubbins`: my beautiful copy of the codex seraphinianus arrived today
nubbins`: it even quelled my rage at this client we're dealing with
nubbins`: who would rather fly 6.25% organic cotton tank tops in from the exact opposite end of the north american continent
nubbins`: than use non-organic tanks from the next province over
nubbins`: because organic
nubbins`: "is this logo good enough quality?" 28kb png
nubbins`: wait, no, the rage is back
the20year1: lol
the20year1: 6.25% organic cotton because....?
asciilifeform: british crown ddos of irc!
asciilifeform: http://www.wikileaks-forum.com/nsa/332/snowden-leak-gshq-attacked-anonymous-in-2012/27549
nubbins`: because organic
nubbins`: because she runs a yoga studio
mircea_popescu: and this is where we quote to you
nubbins`: and because most people, given the choice between BEING "eco-friendly" and APPEARING "eco-friendly", will choose the latter
mircea_popescu: "punkman1> he gets paid to say that shit"
nubbins`: seriously, i could sew a one-inch strip of organic cotton onto the bottom of a regular tank top for the same effect.
ThickAsThieves: all wasted sewing power though
mircea_popescu: actually this is an engineering task.
mircea_popescu: do you know the per-km-pound impact of transporting vs the per pound impact of manufacturing nongreen ?
mircea_popescu: it may actually be the case she's right.
asciilifeform: enviro-whinerism: expensive, shoddy, deadly.
asciilifeform: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/puron.htm
chipug: gshq?!
punkman1: so it only contains 6.25% organic cotton?
nubbins`: 6.25% organic cotton and 6.25% recycled polyester
nubbins`: the rest is just regular cotton/poly
ThickAsThieves: yeah cuz wholly organic would ruin yoga tudios profit margin
nubbins`: oh, did i mention these are OVER DOUBLE THE COST, too?
punkman1: why even mix the two?
nubbins`: punkman1: for some reason, you can't buy 100% organic cotton tank tops.
nubbins`: i'm not sure why
ThickAsThieves: maybe cuz they shrink too much
nubbins`: cotton's cotton, it's usually pre-shrunk anyway
ThickAsThieves: so they say
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: still shrinks 3-5%
nubbins`: regardless
nubbins`: i can buy a 100% cotton tee
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.53520272 = 16.0561 BTC [-] {11}
nubbins`: but not a tank
ThickAsThieves: ah
nubbins`: seriously, $6 for non-organic cotton and $15 for 6.25% organic
chipug: honestly, fuck going outside. think i'll give that a miss from now on
ThickAsThieves: incidentally i did few t-shirt orders for clients, but the last one was a yoga studio
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 21 @ 0.51610665 = 10.8382 BTC [-] {8}
nubbins`: tat, fucking fake hippies
ThickAsThieves: same issues
nubbins`: i'm surprised they didn't ask for bamboo tanks
ThickAsThieves: except they only wanted 10 at a time
ThickAsThieves: cuz they are poor
nubbins`: (which, incidentally, is eco-unfriendly
nubbins`: )
nubbins`: heh
mircea_popescu: nubbins` clearly the tee but not tank is a conspiraci of the feminist dykes to make life difficult for the sluts.
nubbins`: did they realize that 10 at a time was the least cost-effective method?
mircea_popescu: no other explanation.
the20year1: how many eco types buy priuses?
nubbins`: none because they can't afford one
the20year1: i see em all the time locally
ThickAsThieves: my wife has one
nubbins`: i've never seen one
nubbins`: ever
ThickAsThieves: and is part of a green nonprofit
mircea_popescu: http://mahmood.tv/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/hooters-protest1.jpg
mircea_popescu: tank vs tee
the20year1: i see them all the time, with gore/lieberman stickers on them
nubbins`: funny story, our first hooters is opening up this year
asciilifeform: three or four on this street, some with the familiar green DOD stickers
the20year1: And when I ask them what they think about the amount of pollutants created to make the NiMh for the battery, they look like a deer in headlights
ThickAsThieves: my wife's only has cat stickers
nubbins`: heh
ThickAsThieves: i did it as a joke
ThickAsThieves: cuz we have 6 cats
the20year1: wow
nubbins`: i want to get a set of those stick-man family stickers for back windows
ThickAsThieves: so we have the bumper sticker family thing
nubbins`: but instead of me, pascale, and a cat
ThickAsThieves: Man, woman, six cats, in a row
nubbins`: i want like 30 girls surrounding a single cat
nubbins`: toothy grins and claw hands
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 52 @ 0.00540087 = 0.2808 BTC [-] {4}
ThickAsThieves: probly 1 man surrounded by 2 women would be funny enough
the20year1: how about 1 man and 5 women?
pLambert: http://xkcd.com/946/
ozbot: xkcd: Family Decals
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you mean like http://trilema.com/2012/orice-cuplu-functional/ ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.1231 = 0.2462 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1389 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: well, no, but yes
mircea_popescu: ahahaha
mircea_popescu: mp "did you mean X ?" person "well, no, but yes".
mircea_popescu: i should wear a button with that.
ThickAsThieves: pretty much the state of current worldwide communication
pankkake: pLambert: people think I'm a horrible person when I state money as my number one reason to not have children. but… it's true
mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at the forum, http://media.tumblr.com/60a578384a3d0ff3fdcb971f271fae9d/tumblr_inline_mjkje3jJKw1qz4rgp.gif
ThickAsThieves: lol
Duffer1: haha
nubbins`: heh
pLambert: pankkake: funny, rich people view children as a liability, poor people view children as an asset
nubbins`: "maybe this will work"
nubbins`: "maybe if i take an extremely long rigid beam and swing it around my head, the far end will exceed the speed of light"
nubbins`: pLambert: "manufactured happiness" :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00540009 = 1.08 BTC [-] {6}
pLambert: maybe we could get a perpetual motion machine to apply torque to accelerate the beam?
nubbins`: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html
ozbot: Dan Gilbert: The surprising science of happiness | Video on TED.com
mircea_popescu: pLambert the view happens to be correct. the per-capita investment for poor man's children to replace poor man is negative. the per capita investment for rich man's children to replace rich man is enormous, and exponential.
mircea_popescu: this not even taking into account the big problem, which is, the required minimal capacity of the child to absorb investment
pLambert: could I, as a person in a rich society, just choose to spend little on my children and expect them to contribute?
mircea_popescu: sure.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.0054 = 0.54 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but from a game theoretic perspective, consider you've rolled an 3 point average character in a 1-20 stats game.
mircea_popescu: do you reroll or try to level ?
mircea_popescu: compare with rolling a pure 20 stat char. do you EVER re-roll that ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.0054 = 0.27 BTC [-] {3}
antephialtic: sounds very Rawlsian. Pick the game you want to play based on the odds before you roll
mircea_popescu: you personally can do anything you please, and so can anyone else. but on aggregate people will play the game correctly.
benkay`: babe, on getting a new credit card: "why is this so commmplicated"
benkay`: me: "because its not bitcoing"
mircea_popescu: lmao
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.13888889 = 0.2778 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
nubbins`: http://xkcd.com/1323/
ozbot: xkcd: Protocol
nubbins`: lelelel
benkay`: business partner on discovering our banking partners wants 5 dollars for every physical check: "why is this so stupid? why do banks suck so much?"
nubbins`: i should try this soon
benkay`: me: "because its not bitcoin"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00093363 = 21.2868 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.53987998 = 1.0798 BTC [+]
nubbins`: friend, paying for an item with cash at the store: "why is this so easy?"
nubbins`: me: "because it's not bitcoin"
ThickAsThieves: mircea_popescu Bitcoin Magazine has put out a bat signal for you: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/9908/bitcoin-need-john-law/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.53999332 = 1.62 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves as usual, they do not know what the words they're saying mean.
nubbins`: pascale just referred to the part of the toilet where all the lid hinges are as "the choda"
pankkake: paying cash is hard for me, I can't do mental calculus
mircea_popescu: pankkake just hand over bills and watch the op's eyes
mircea_popescu: poker change protocol.
pankkake: I usually don't care
nubbins`: haha
nubbins`: eyes widen: "where's my change"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
pankkake: if they think scamming me is worth me not coming if I discover it… so be it
mircea_popescu: i never actually bother doing the math untill i see they're cheating me
nubbins`: eyes narrow: "sorry, here's some more"
mircea_popescu: i've like a 98% success rate so far.
nubbins`: i watched a friend overpay for an item by ~$45 in colombia because he mixed up "five" and "fifty"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
nubbins`: "that vendor was really friendly"
ThickAsThieves: "Mortgage Rates Hit Three-Month Low"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.0054 = 0.216 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: maybe theyll start paying us to buy houses
pankkake: I like that john law article!
mircea_popescu: http://media.tumblr.com/a0cac300cf0e64cde94acd7628294ece/tumblr_inline_mj8j8vJNxU1qz4rgp.gif
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.13888889 BTC [-]
pankkake: she looks like dr greg
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] [PAID] 32.54126220 BTC to 695 shares, 4682196 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: what's a dr greg
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11110004 BTC [-]
pankkake: http://crstat.com/imx/greg150x200.jpg
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 41 @ 0.10312682 = 4.2282 BTC [-] {9}
nubbins`: haha
nubbins`: i remember dr greg
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: i was reading an article the other day saying that rates here in canada will start rising this year or next
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0906781 = 0.272 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: all a bit of a beat-off
mircea_popescu: rates everywhere will start to raise next year since 2008.
ThickAsThieves: as i see it here, housing is fucked for along time
mircea_popescu: problem is... no. canada economy can't support rates over 5% , and won't. possibly ever in the history of canada.
ThickAsThieves: in FL there are so many half-finished neighborhood developments
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11109999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 67 @ 0.00306 = 0.205 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: once things pick up theyll finish them, keeping the market down
Dimsler__: oh yeah right
Dimsler__: they'll finish
Dimsler__: half of the suburbs in america are going to become farms
Dimsler__: just like they did in detroit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.20001 = 0.4 BTC [-]
Dimsler__: suburbia is completely unnatural city management and planning
mircea_popescu: why ? they can plant gardens
Dimsler__: it was a concept devised by the anglo-saxon to push the catholic and jew out of the city cores in the early 1900s
mircea_popescu: minimal changes can turn us suburbia into what europe is like.
Dimsler__: because they were losing voting power
Dimsler__: no they can't
mircea_popescu: specifically ?
ThickAsThieves: not so bad when every 'hood is right off the highway
Dimsler__: thats complete horseshit
Dimsler__: man have you ever been to america?
ThickAsThieves: here we go!
mircea_popescu: yes, i lived there. have you ?
Dimsler__: yes
Dimsler__: and i also lived in europe
mircea_popescu: cool. so then. specifically ?
Dimsler__: the population density makes it improbable
Dimsler__: in a north american city most peopel live 20km+ from the downtown center
mircea_popescu: i thought we were discussing the infrastructure not the population.
Dimsler__: of a single city
mircea_popescu: in europe most people live 20km+ from the downtowncenter too.
Dimsler__: while in europ 15km IS another city
Dimsler__: oh yeah where?
Dimsler__: because I've been everywhere
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.19376446 = 0.9688 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 177 @ 0.00307222 = 0.5438 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: well see., the fact that they call it "another city" is irrelevant
Dimsler__: from paris to kiev to bucharest
Dimsler__: no
mircea_popescu: you can call about 45 "othercities" in greater boston area
nubbins`: ^
Dimsler__: the population displacement is massive
nubbins`: amalgamation
nubbins`: toronto used to be what, five cities?
nubbins`: then they all bled together
nubbins`: same with ottawa
nubbins`: same with vancouver
mircea_popescu: in fact, la is > size of slovenia. to the point i was making jokes about the TOWN of slovenia.
nubbins`: same with montreal
Dimsler__: toronto in the 1900s had a sign up in the core saying they didn't sell realestate to jews or fags
nubbins`: happening right now with edmonton, calgary
Dimsler__: so they where forced into urban sprawl
Dimsler__: the problem with that is it creates inefficiencies in infrastructure
nubbins`: ^
mircea_popescu: i think your particular preoccupation with a political slant makes the discussion intractable to you.
Dimsler__: where an individal cannot move around without consume a fuck load of natural resources
mircea_popescu: forget the jewz bs.
pLambert: Where I live, a small town in the US, everybody lives within about 3 km of the downtown
Dimsler__: sure i don't believe in nation states
Dimsler__: assume every little suburb became its own little city
Dimsler__: how will they sustain there life? ☟︎
Dimsler__: there is no manufacturing, jobs are a 50-60km commute away
mircea_popescu: pLambert we're not even talking about flyover us, cause obviously that doesn't exist for the op :D
Dimsler__: who the fuck is funding the fuel here?
mircea_popescu: Dimsler__ you heard on the internet ?
Dimsler__: north america was built on cheap gasoline
mircea_popescu: i have teams working for me totalling well over 100 people
Dimsler__: the internet? wtf are you talking about
mircea_popescu: and srsly, i'd be surprised if the average distance between pairs is under 3k miles
Dimsler__: the internet is a den of theives pornographers and fraudsters
Dimsler__: there is no "money" to be made on the internet ☟︎
Dimsler__: for the average joe
mircea_popescu: ok i guess this has gone to its logical conclusion.
nubbins`: the average joe is a bum
Dimsler__: the logical conclusion is going to be an exodus from suburbia
nubbins`: the average joe works minimum wage
Dimsler__: back into the cities
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.19376446 = 0.3875 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: not happening.
Dimsler__: average white man US population is 44
nubbins`: happening some places
nubbins`: south korea, for example
mircea_popescu: the suburbia is getting (for a minimal cost) refurbished and that's that.
mircea_popescu: your joe can starve, nobody cares.
Dimsler__: the next place for older americans is next to a funeral home or a cemetary
Dimsler__: the average joe isn't going to just starve
pLambert: my parents live in suburban Detroit, I have noticed the area around them is becoming denser, over time the US cities will change to be more like small cities instead of one giant city
Dimsler__: hes goign to cause a shit storm
nubbins`: me: "what was the interest rate on your mortgage?"
Dimsler__: pLambert, oh yeah? with what manufacturing?
nubbins`: dad: "7.25% locked in for 35 years. a real bargain at the time, as rates soared to 18% at one point"
mircea_popescu: Dimsler__ poor people without resources or abilities do not cause shit storms.
livermore34: this sounds interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinStocks/comments/1x3lp9/counterparty_xcp_a_new_platform_for_trustfree/
Dimsler__: and with what population growth?
livermore34: no more exchange shutdowns
livermore34: or exchange scams
nubbins`: imagine, 18% interest on a mortgage
pLambert: what about manufacturing? Detroit has factories spread throughout all the suburbs
Dimsler__: nubbins`, thats nothing new
mircea_popescu: livermore34 you've not really done your reading re that shitfest.
Dimsler__: thats 1990s america
nubbins`: wow
Dimsler__: 1988-1990 had mortgages rates up to 16%
nubbins`: imagine
Dimsler__: mircea_popescu, man reference yourself hurricane katrina
Dimsler__: a little storm
Dimsler__: and even the national guard couldn't stop looting niggers
nubbins`: "even" the national guard, hey?
mircea_popescu: seriously, you got some stuff going on that's preventing you from thinking.
nubbins`: "even a bunch of bums who train one weekend a month couldn't keep an entire city under control"
nubbins`: shocking
Dimsler__: mircea_popescu, you have no idea bout how evil and arrogant the anglo-saxon actually is
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/Nex8eBy.gif
mircea_popescu: on the right, national guard.
mircea_popescu: Dimsler__ probably because i'm even more evil and arrogant.
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: "the anglo-saxon"
nubbins`: "the jew"
nubbins`: "the nigger"
Dimsler__: well these are actual terms
ThickAsThieves: wow i go make some tea and come back some prime idiocy
nubbins`: "the dimsler"
punkman1: I propose "the dimsler"
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1587218/plain/)
mircea_popescu: !b 2 ✂︎
asciilifeform: saxons.txt
nubbins`: ^ hahahahah
punkman1: you got me nubbins
nubbins`: i'm quick
mircea_popescu: if a saxophone is an instrument,
mircea_popescu: what's a niggophone ?
nubbins`: and i have like ZERO LAG
Dimsler__: well what
ThickAsThieves: there's no money to be mad eon the internet guys, go home
Dimsler__: its a pure fact
Dimsler__: usury is caused by the jew
mircea_popescu: it's a puree of facts.
Dimsler__: compounded interest and usury cannot exist in a economic money system
mircea_popescu: is this tibby ?
nubbins`: lel
nubbins`: this is all rich
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12221 @ 0.0009345 = 11.4205 BTC [+]
nubbins`: you people are fucked
ThickAsThieves: tibby wouldnt lurk this long til now
Dimsler__: yeah you're all fucking genious'
Dimsler__: people are going to get internet jobs
Dimsler__: and live in some suburbian utopia
Dimsler__: thats a great idea
punkman1: yeah clicking ads for satoshis all day
Dimsler__: and have little farms in there backyard
Dimsler__: s
nubbins`: sounds nice so far
nubbins`: does it have to be in america tho? that place sucks
nubbins`: too many destitute and crazy people
ThickAsThieves: how hard is it to move to Canada?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 64 @ 0.00305999 = 0.1958 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.111 BTC [-]
pLambert: maybe the US would be better if we got rid of the FedGov?
nubbins`: easy as fuck
nubbins`: you can drive here from there
Dimsler__: all anglo countries blow
ThickAsThieves: lol
Dimsler__: you move to them you're going to get fucked up
Dimsler__: plain and simple
ThickAsThieves: but to be a citizen and live there
nubbins`: so where's your eden, Dimsler__ ?
Dimsler__: sealand
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: get a job and we'll let you stay here
ThickAsThieves: can i make my own job?
nubbins`: sure
nubbins`: i guess
ThickAsThieves: i dont like bosses
nubbins`: nobody does
ThickAsThieves: indeed
nubbins`: i've got a mexican roommate who just got her work visa a while ago
nubbins`: you may need to be sponsored by an employer to get settled, not sure of the ins and outs
asciilifeform: if i recall you can buy canadian citizenship for $50k
asciilifeform: (usd)
nubbins`: but canada welcomes immigrants with open arms
Dimsler__: you'd be completely retarded
Dimsler__: to spend 50k
ThickAsThieves: I'll come apprentice for Pink Eye
Dimsler__: on a candian citizenship
nubbins`: sounds great, can't pay ya tho
ThickAsThieves: i can make logos, what more do you need
ThickAsThieves: we can put them on the internet
mircea_popescu: so i was just on the phone with this jewish chick i know, and she admitted that in israel the oreos are made out of dead anglosaxon babies.
nubbins`: the back deck needs shovelling
mircea_popescu: seems we;ve been wrong all along
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, same thing in canada
nubbins`: and our cadbury chocolate is made from real jersey cow milk
asciilifeform: the crunchy part is made from angles, the inner cream, distilled from saxons.
ThickAsThieves: i could pay the mexican to shovel it for you
nubbins`: i tell ya, it's the promised land
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves, she already has a job ;(
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hahaha
Dimsler__: well the jew takes advantage of the gentile
ThickAsThieves: jewlitan
Dimsler__: with his shylock
Dimsler__: has been like that for centuries
nubbins`: bitcoin removes the need for usury anyway
Dimsler__: well thats why i'm here
Dimsler__: lol
mircea_popescu: nubbins`> you may need to be sponsored by an employer to get settled, not sure of the ins and outs << drive over, hire a lawyer to start a companby, have the company hire you.
mircea_popescu: problem solved.
nubbins`: oh, i thought you were here to babble nonsense
Dimsler__: you can't breed bitcoins
Dimsler__: like you can with fractional reserve currency
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: nod, would probably work
Dimsler__: so you can't lend them for profit
Dimsler__: usury is self eliminating in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: people lend btc for profit all the time what are you talkin'; about.
Dimsler__: you can't breed bitcoin
nubbins`: you can't breed Dimsler__
ThickAsThieves: ?
Dimsler__: its not possible to compound interest on bitcoins
punkman1: you can definitely breed dimslers
Dimsler__: or create usury contracts
Dimsler__: they will eventually lead to defaults
Dimsler__: due to bitcoins deflationary nature
ThickAsThieves: Dimsler is more likely to breed than most of us
ThickAsThieves: stats say
nubbins`: hahahah
asciilifeform: on the other hand, if you can afford this maneuver in canada, you can afford it in a real country.
mircea_popescu: ^
ThickAsThieves: which is realest?
punkman1: Sealand
Dimsler__: when default occur people will be more cautious about lending
Dimsler__: its plain and simple
nubbins`: one with its own sovereign? ;p
Dimsler__: it just isn't going to happen
Dimsler__: especially not on a massive instrituionalized scale like we have now
mircea_popescu: nubbins` romania is not a bad one, for as long as that lasts.
nubbins`: phun phact, ugly betty is the ruler of our fair land
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.08603422 = 0.1721 BTC [-] {2}
Dimsler__: romania has us extradition
Dimsler__: so it already sucks
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: you kinda need to pick some criteria and stick to them
nubbins`: it's like you're being willfully obtuse
Dimsler__: i told you
Dimsler__: no US extradition or OECD compliance
Dimsler__: only countries worth living in
mircea_popescu: that makes a real country ?
mircea_popescu: so go live in columbia, what.
Dimsler__: that makes a free country
asciilifeform: russia. france.
nubbins`: colombia sucks to live in
mircea_popescu: france is a real country now. god help us.
asciilifeform: by his definition
nubbins`: yeah, russia
nubbins`: there ya go
mircea_popescu: im curious what his polonium defense is for free living in russia.
nubbins`: you'll fit right in
Dimsler__: russia is great to live in ☟︎
Dimsler__: whats the problem?
mircea_popescu: "sure, makea few billions and start buying english football clubs so maybe the kremlin won't off you"
nubbins`: "russia is great to live in"
Dimsler__: like even your boiler room
mircea_popescu: what's that blondy jounralistn's name again ?
Dimsler__: in romania you could be extradited straight to the US
Dimsler__: by some random entity
Dimsler__: vs in russia
Dimsler__: where nobody gives a fuck
ThickAsThieves: Anne Coulter?
mircea_popescu: wait wait. were we talking about me or about you ?
mircea_popescu: or do you just presume we're interchangeable because irc nicks
nubbins`: ann coulter lel
mircea_popescu: no dude
mircea_popescu: lipishinkaya or something
asciilifeform: politkovskaya
mircea_popescu: Anna Politkovskaya
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: plugged for good cause, as far as i can see
Dimsler__: how?
mircea_popescu: good cause or no good cause...
asciilifeform: like that chinese idiot
mircea_popescu: and since we're doing this,
Dimsler__: who cares about a bunch of muslim rats
mircea_popescu: ;;google Alexander Litvinenko
gribble: Alexander Litvinenko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko>; Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko>; BBC News - Who was Alexander Litvinenko?: <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19647226>
Dimsler__: they invaded europe
asciilifeform: who wrote about how his country needs 300 years of european colonization to become 'civilized'
Dimsler__: and fucked it up
Dimsler__: the weak nordic and geraminc
Dimsler__: let th emuslim rat in
asciilifeform: (won't hear of this in the anglo media, though)
Dimsler__: and he shit all over the place
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well it;s a fact or do you disagree ?
mircea_popescu: obviously "civilisation" as she means it isn't necessarily a goal
mircea_popescu: but if it were a goal, what else.
asciilifeform: the fact is, this kind of thing doesn't sit well with any ruler
Dimsler__: western europe
Dimsler__: has weak policies
mircea_popescu: certainly.
asciilifeform: chinese, european, aztec, whoever.
Dimsler__: for humanity
Dimsler__: and strict for economics
ThickAsThieves: how bout switzerland?
Dimsler__: thats why they are turning into socialized slums
mircea_popescu: and it'd be a pretty boneheaded thing to do anyway. russia has had enough cultural revolutionary great leaps forward to last it five centuries.
Dimsler__: swtzerland doesn't hand out citizenship
Dimsler__: and has ahigh productivity rate
Dimsler__: like you go to germany and like 1/4 is a filthy fucking turk
Dimsler__: like you can't buy a used car without the odometer rolled back
nubbins`: have to admit, i wonder where dimsler is from and what he looks like
ThickAsThieves: jersey
Dimsler__: eastern european, western educated, lived everywhere
Dimsler__: thats aobut all you need to know
pankkake: like the would not bang guy
nubbins`: we covered all i needed to know already
nubbins`: that was just for curiosity
nubbins`: pankkake, +1 :(
nubbins`: he seems to be a wizard
Dimsler__: fact is, any country with liberal moral values and strict financials where usury is rampant
Dimsler__: is going to suck
Dimsler__: and the people are going to be clueless and retarded
Dimsler__: with a bad case of stockholm syndrome
nubbins`: as opposed to russia where everything is great
nubbins`: and all are smart
Dimsler__: lol russia is not a fucking utopia
nubbins`: wait, i thought it was at the top of your list?
asciilifeform: last i checked, usury is in perfect health in russia.
Dimsler__: did i fucking name a country?
nubbins`: yes
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2014#482517 ☝︎
nubbins`: try to keep up
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: lel
pLambert: What about Somalia, I thought they were supposed to be Utopia?
nubbins`: you can't even keep track of all the things you're mad at, can you?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
nubbins`: pLambert: loose financials, conservative values
nubbins`: no extradition to USA
nubbins`: no OECD compliance
nubbins`: by dimmy's criteria, somalia is the promised land
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1212 @ 0.00084009 = 1.0182 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: hell, there are hardly even any anglos or jews there!
pLambert: but there might be too many Muslims, I think Dimmy said those are bad too?
nubbins`: hmm yes that is true
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.5100751 = 2.0403 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: it's cool tho if you just stay inside
pLambert: How about Antacrtica?
nubbins`: no manufacturing
pLambert: is that a criteria now too?
nubbins`: i think it always was
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2014#482323 ☝︎
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
pLambert: Just build your own factory?
nubbins`: nah then transport is the problem
nubbins`: too bad you can't make money on the internet
nubbins`: otherwise it'd be perfect
asciilifeform: 'in my country there's a problem, and that problem is transport...'
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2014#482333 ☝︎
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: it's almost like dimmy just runs the mouth without making any lucid points
Dimsler__: lol
Dimsler__: you guys are seirously stupid
nubbins`: if you're smart, i'm ok with being stupid
mircea_popescu: <pLambert> What about Somalia, I thought they were supposed to be Utopia? <<< they used to be but then kako got snowed in.
asciilifeform: Dimsler__: if you'd like to live in New York circa 1890, you will have to build it. tears have never built anything.
nubbins`: sullen pouty sooky-bum complaining about all he witnesses yet adding nothing of value to anyone or anything
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00084065 = 0.1261 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you clearly don't understand the internet.
nubbins`: clearly
mircea_popescu: everclearly.
nubbins`: "you guys are seirously stupid" should be on the cover of the -assets book
mircea_popescu: you have no idea what an assets book entails.
mircea_popescu: my logs are > 50mb and i only log when i'm on
nubbins`: do you even read those logs? ;(
nubbins`: choice quotes accompanied by ASCII porn
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.00084066 = 0.2522 BTC [+]
nubbins`: it kind of lost steam around the point that we realized there aren't any ASCII artists in here
asciilifeform: emacs, 'artist mode'
nubbins`: too large
nubbins`: gotta create by hand
asciilifeform: http://emacs-fu.blogspot.com/2009/01/drawing-pictures.html
ozbot: emacs-fu: drawing pictures
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 400 @ 0.00084075 = 0.3363 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i grep tehm
nubbins`: ah, okay
nubbins`: that might actually work
nubbins`: i can't be fucked to draw 50 ascii porn shots tho
mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdca8l9VJe1qdlh1io1_400.gif << this should be on the cover of the assets book
mircea_popescu: representing the noobie de-lurking
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2014#480603 ☝︎
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: heh, i like that
KRS-: heh
nubbins`: could even make it a periodical
punkman1: hah http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/file-your-taxes-before-the-fraudsters-do/
nubbins`: "-assets quarterly"
nubbins`: -AQ for short
nubbins`: -aQ i guess
KRS-One: Improve your I.Q. with aQ.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00084077 = 0.1682 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: more iq with the aq
mircea_popescu: According to a 2013 report from the Treasury Inspector General’s office, the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS) issued nearly $4 billion in bogus tax refunds in 2012. The money largely was sent to people who stole Social Security numbers and other information on U.S. citizens, and then filed fraudulent tax returns on those individuals claiming a large refund but at a different address.
mircea_popescu: dude the fiat system works so well, i have no idea why all these people talk about bitcoin threats and whatnot
nubbins`: hmm
nubbins`: fuck this, i've got work to do!
mircea_popescu: http://www.ohmagif.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/please-wait-i-need-to-play-in-the-puddle.gif
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04777776 = 0.2389 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 7 @ 0.08811427 = 0.6168 BTC [+] {5}
pankkake: "difficulty" : 62719.43923596
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: thats Altcoin?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 250 @ 0.000825 = 0.2063 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I've got my Altcoin shill piece in http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/02/04/memes-go-meta-altcoin-unveiled-this-past-weekend/
jurov: how much for it?
davout: hello
jurov: hi
jurov: eur => x.eur transfers working already?
davout: you want moar?
jurov: not atm, just curious if you finished it
BingoBoingo: jurov: Twas gratis
davout: yep
jurov: i don't see any interface.. one needs to ask you over email or irc?
davout: yes, it works but it isn't automated
jurov: k
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.09979999 = 0.1996 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell herbijudlestoids re the "greater point", http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "other, less meta altcoins" you mean "other, less alt metacoins" or "same, less coin metaalts" ?
mircea_popescu: because it could be taken in any number of ways
BingoBoingo: Because meta
BingoBoingo: Reader has to decide
BingoBoingo: Shit happen when I write sober
Asa9: lol
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMK7zUEeNGI
ozbot: Seinfeld: Conrad, Connie or Con - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 800 @ 0.00301897 = 2.4152 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00532245 = 0.5322 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: wow that point re metaphysics is actually incredibly strong
mircea_popescu: it just gave me one of those inception moments.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what schooling did you do ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Four years of kinds mushed together aimless undergrad mixing drinking, philosophy, economics and math, then two years of philosophy grad school I quit, the two years of Library graduate school with an absofuckinglutely worthless degree, followed by discovering Oh, that bitcoin stuff is money.
mircea_popescu: where ?
BingoBoingo: Undergrad was indescriminate budget small liberal arts college (Socially Liberal Methodist variety). Philosophy was at Southern Illinois University Carbondale.
mircea_popescu: so i gather you're the poster child of the confused generation.
BingoBoingo: Definitely.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1587365/plain/)
mircea_popescu: !b 2 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: no, seriously...
mircea_popescu: #bitcoin cures, ladies and gents
deadweasel: amen
mircea_popescu: touch the screen now. heal! HEAL!
mircea_popescu: i think we packed enough meta in there to mine at least a dozen blocks.
ThickAsThieves: did somebody say metaphysics?
ThickAsThieves: BingoBoingo, thanks for the article!
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: You are very welcome.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51997563 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: That one hasn't made it to Slashdot though. Maybe if someone else with a Slashot account submits it there around 07:00 UTC and then post the link to the submission here Altcoin can make Slashdot.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Bitcoin indeed cures.
BingoBoingo: Speaking of Physics, Platos cave, old meme. Descartes Meditations Meme. Maimonides God can only be defined in the negative, meme. Aristotle's powerpoint on the word "is" though still generates papers.
mircea_popescu: ;;google trilema
gribble: Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/>; Trilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilemma>; Münchhausen trilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchhausen_trilemma>
mircea_popescu: that sweet day when a misspelling takes over a) the correct spelling ; b) wikipedia
asciilifeform: i thought the single 'm' was the Ro. spelling.
mircea_popescu: it is.
mircea_popescu: i think in googleterms "misspelling" is actually less of a stretch than "obscure language word"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.51997563 = 1.04 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: In Google Terms loosing Hearn was a tragedy.
BingoBoingo: Hearn was perfect for Google
mircea_popescu: did he actually do anything while there ?
mircea_popescu: the narrative i heard is more along the lines of "oh, yet another one of the schmucks that spend some time here doing nothing to be able to put google on their cv"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Dunno if he did. Just seems the way he is wanting to ruin BTC fall inline with the ways Google wants to ruin TCP
mircea_popescu: i doubt google wants anything anymore per se
mircea_popescu: other than FOOOOODDDD
BingoBoingo: Lol
BingoBoingo: Looks like I missed Dimsler__ but it seems I can recognize his ideal state: West Virginia.
pankkake: you mean brainssss?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: colleague of mine just moved there. now he's getting 100K/sec.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well they also lack suburbs, have manufactering (of prisons), aren't really inside the US (Sentences to the prisons there are practically exile), and the people are awfully friendly if you don't try to get into any of their rackets.
mircea_popescu: pankkake after they get big enough and public enough, no force in the world can keep a corporation alligned to its long term interest.
mircea_popescu: this i suspect is the eventual fate of mpoe too
mircea_popescu: all that remains is a dull ache for more revenue
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So roughly 5 years after you cede the controlling interest, MPOE seats go down to tens of Satoshis?
Duffer1: mpoe bot will be self aware, buy it's freedom
BingoBoingo: Duffer1: Maybe it tried that yesterday...
pankkake: it won't be satoshis, it will be doges
asciilifeform: slavecoins.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 183 @ 0.00084077 = 0.1539 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: pankkake: No one will remember Doge then. It will be HerpBuxx. Named after teen singer Derp Heiperp
pankkake: I came up with a new altcoin idea. FuckCoin. so you can give a FUCK
pankkake: btw: http://bitbet.us/bet/733/doge-still-woofing-on-april-fools-day/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.102245 = 0.2045 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: I have a cold storage address that starts as 1fuck (all lowercase) and lacking firstbits rights. Barely anything there. Doubt I'll awaken it until Million Dollar BTC (Much happier last chapter to that film than Million Dollar Baby).
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> pankkake: No one will remember Doge then. It will be HerpBuxx. Named after teen singer Derp Heiperp <<
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2166 @ 0.00011653 = 0.2524 BTC [-] {8}
pankkake: http://i.imgur.com/9adVwOX.jpg
BingoBoingo: I mean there isn't an AllYourBaseCoin or a BoxxyCoin, the reason is that time is unkind to memes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.1 = 0.3 BTC [-] {2}
Duffer1: still no substitute for audrey :(
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04520001 = 0.1808 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: pankkake: With maybe exception for Marie and Indira most on that list can get the ???
BingoBoingo: I mean Di barely made it into the 90's
BingoBoingo: Since I'm not all that anon anyways (Thank you metaNSA) I'll throw out the undergrad school http://www.mckendree.edu/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 183 @ 0.0008408 = 0.1539 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1353 @ 0.00301 = 4.0725 BTC [-]
pankkake: at least the whites are at the top
dub: I think pankkake is on to something
dub: we beed a way to account for fucks given
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.000841 = 0.1682 BTC [+]
dub: a fuckchain secured by proof of fuck is appropriate
BingoBoingo: dub: Fetus sealed in lucite as proof of work?
ThickAsThieves: rumplestiltscoin
pankkake: at least "orphaned block" will mean something
BingoBoingo: LOL
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: +j
mircea_popescu: jesus
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 600 @ 0.00084188 = 0.5051 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mehas5sRji1raprkq.gif
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 125 @ 0.00084199 = 0.1052 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 375 @ 0.00084199 = 0.3157 BTC [+]
pankkake: http://totoz.eu/img/shiba_coincoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.00529952 = 0.3498 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1969 @ 0.00301 = 5.9267 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Hrm... what will we call fractions of an ATC? How about "altoshi"?"
ThickAsThieves: "Altoids."
ThickAsThieves: "Paradimes?"
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Xenos
ThickAsThieves: if i could, i'd change the source to not have decimals
ThickAsThieves: useless
benkay: altoids lol
ThickAsThieves: maybe thatll be the next coin
ThickAsThieves: Paradime
ThickAsThieves: no decimals
ThickAsThieves: "the only alternative to Altcoin"
mircea_popescu: altoids lol
mircea_popescu: code has no decimals as it is.
ThickAsThieves: really?
ThickAsThieves: so bitcoin didnt have it when it started?
FabianB: satoshi
FabianB: calculating money should never be done with decimals
ThickAsThieves: who the hell put it in there?
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: BTC values are all ints where 1 satoshi == 1
pankkake: decimals are fine, floats are not :)
deadweasel: metas?
FabianB: yeah
ThickAsThieves: people are nuts if they think people will start talking in ubtc and mbtc and shit
pankkake: the French eventually switched to New Francs
pankkake: of course, it was in the other direction
BingoBoingo: This shit should be like BTC 101, All BTC values are ints built from 1 satoshi == 1. How to configure a miner shouldn't even exist until BTC 320.
ThickAsThieves: so why is it called bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: and not Satoshi
Namworld: Would anyone be interested in loaning me 290 BTC @ 10% per year, with collateral?
ThickAsThieves: doesnt that kinda request come with more info usually?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0998 = 0.1996 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Namworld: Sure. Application consists of a video of you self performing a lung lobectomy and videotaping it. Poor form when applying sutures is grounds for denial.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.104 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.19376446 = 0.9688 BTC [-]
Namworld: I'll self-perform a lung lobectomy on YOU and videotape it. (You didn't say on "you performing on yourself" but "you self perform", which means I only have to perform it myself, not on myself)
BingoBoingo: Namworld: And we get back to meta. Isn't Altcoin awesome?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10449 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: sepukkucoin.
davout: !ticker m ^oix
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 122.22370491 / 105.56529382 / 105.38554991 (1211 shares, 27.25 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
davout: mircea_popescu: shouldn't the oix displayed be divided by the lot size?
davout: for clarity
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10449 BTC [+]
FabianB: looks like stable price period will continue
Namworld: Well loaning BTC has definitly gotten impossible.
BingoBoingo: I wonder what GangnamCoin would be trading at today if it was released last year?
ThickAsThieves: that oix doesnt seem right
ThickAsThieves: wheres all the volume from yesterday
davout: it takes only sales into account
ThickAsThieves: doe sthat make sense?
mircea_popescu: davout i guess it should, but this clarity thing...
davout: the bot bought the puts yesterday
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10449 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51997563 = 2.0799 BTC [+]
Namworld: Please inquire, assuming anyone has the capital at all.
davout: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1045 BTC [+]
davout: ThickAsThieves: i guess taking into account purchases by the market maker bot mixes the bot's opinion into the OIX, which doesn't seem to be desired
ThickAsThieves: i dunno about that
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/431178977219072001
ozbot: Twitter / BBoingo: @etploshay @CathyReisenwitz ...
ThickAsThieves: it was the seller that desired to sell
ThickAsThieves: at whatever price
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12450 @ 0.00093513 = 11.6424 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1095 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23whoisneo&src=hash
ozbot: Twitter / Search - #whoisneo
lippoper: yes! ozbot!
lippoper: .bait me
ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/45db538e1e1c5c54e0a1037421ce444d/tumblr_mfy6lp4qgz1rhwvw0o1_500.jpg
mircea_popescu: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mecrrr8ViX1raprkq.gif
davout: the jimmothy thread converted to .gif ?
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/HzrEB.gif
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/7xpOF.gif << and this'd be everyone ELSE in that thread.
davout: you're making me want to watch videos of these crazy japanese dudes doing irl video fx
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0452 = 0.2712 BTC [-] {2}
davout: fuck, this makes zero sense
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/4pGbC.jpg
davout: yeah, pretty much
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
jurov: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/nbc-all-visitors-sochi-olympics-immediately-hacked_778718.html heh
ozbot: NBC: All Visitors to Sochi Olympics Immediately Hacked | The Weekly Standard
mircea_popescu: jurov did you see the one with the pillows ?
jurov: which? hotel pillows?
jurov: perhaps not
davout: jurov: sounds like a headline the onion would make
mircea_popescu: ;;google sochi out of pillows athletes
gribble: Sochi Is Running Out of Pillows - Vocativ: <http://www.vocativ.com/02-2014/sochi-running-pillows/>; Sochi venues turning into Olympic-style nightmares « Hot Air: <http://hotair.com/archives/2014/02/05/sochi-venues-turning-into-olympic-style-nightmares/>; From Sochi, journalists report Winter Olympics woes: poor conditions: <http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/olympics/media- (1 more message)
jurov: ah that
mircea_popescu: "They test the system in the report -- and are, as one might expect, immediately hacked the moment the test computer connects with the Russian network."
mircea_popescu: herpderp russian guys are bad says nsa
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00011311 = 0.1131 BTC [-] {4}
deadweasel: ""
deadweasel: oops, "nine media hotels"
deadweasel: how fucking useless
deadweasel: send one media team, them be hacked for free streaming olympics!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20389 @ 0.00093076 = 18.9773 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51997563 = 2.0799 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Test system should try OpenBSD on SPARC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html
ozbot: Mt.Gox Withdrawals - Coinsight.org
ThickAsThieves: "Update: The charts below have temporarily gone flat. That's not a bug -- I'm still getting fresh data."
ThickAsThieves: "The Mt.Gox IRC support channel tells me this flatness is a result of their hot wallet currently being empty. Most users who try to withdraw now get an "invalid address" error, meaning the withdrawal attempt fails before a transaction is created that can get stuck."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.1937 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: derp
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.109 = 0.436 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1099 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.51997563 = 2.5999 BTC [+]
davout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6DGs3qjRwQ
jurov: as i said, they were inspired by bitfunder/weexchange
jurov: includein the very error message
jurov: *including
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00518006 = 2.59 BTC [+] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 44 @ 0.00518002 = 0.2279 BTC [-]
pLambert: So MtGox is out of money now? Who uses them still?
ThickAsThieves: the guy that sold all those puts
benkay: el oh el
mircea_popescu: pLambert anyone who missed all those warnings since april ?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves srsly, if mtgox closes this month those puts will likely hurt.
mircea_popescu: every 80 bux in the price is like a million dollars due to all the magnificent leverage of options. ☟︎
pLambert: people keep seeing "I can't get my money out of MtGox", but they think the problem is just going to go away and fix itself?
benkay: yes.
ThickAsThieves: mircea maybe we need to send you back to the forum to learn from MPOE-PR
benkay: i am currently hammering this point home in the portland bitcoin channel.
benkay: <benkay> evaluation criteria: management teams, past performance
benkay: <benkay> the gox mgmt team has a history of incompetence
benkay: <benkay> the gox operation as a history of completely fucking it up
benkay: <benkay> has* [14:05]
benkay: <benkay> and also yes, i put a huge risk premium on anything having to do with
benkay: btc. anyone with whom i'm going to put btc on deposit must have a
benkay: completely stellar and unsmirched record.
benkay: <benkay> coins will drift out of wallets operated by people who do not adhere
benkay: to this philosophy.
pLambert: so does mtgox not have any bitcoins, or do they just not have any in their hot wallet?
benkay: question of the day.
BingoBoingo: Is there an Ohio BTC channel? I need to remind them that they live in a bubbling shitpit and their rivers are flamable.
benkay: second question of the day: how long does it take them to move weight into their hot wallet?
BingoBoingo: pLambert: They never had enough. Not since 2010 by my count.
benkay: third question of the day: can they survive a bank run?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51997563 = 2.0799 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves whassat ?
BingoBoingo: benkay: They've already died in fiat bankruns. Dunno how BTC bank runs can make gox more dead.
punkman: when did they start running fractional reserve anyway?
pLambert: bank run? if there is no bitcoin they just stop allowing withdrawals
BingoBoingo: punkman: They went fractional in 2010 after their first hack.
ThickAsThieves: well let's be absurd about it: Current Avg Withdrawal * Current Stuck Transactions = 41662.5btc
mircea_popescu: punkman it's unclear but it was announced in april 2013.
pLambert: and how many millions were seized by the US through dwolla?
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves whassat ? <<< to learn how to hold onto your bitcoins
ThickAsThieves: :)
mircea_popescu: wait what'd i do ?!
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves srsly, if mtgox closes this month those puts will likely hurt.
punkman: guess when they lost millions to Dwolla might have been a good time
mircea_popescu: if mtgox goes to shit puts hurt mpoebot makes dough
mircea_popescu: punkman the dwolla thing sunk tradehill, but mtgox was not seriously affected then.
mircea_popescu: in fact i still suspect the dwolla thing was a backroom deal between the two to strangle competition.
ThickAsThieves: you mean if gox goes to shit by not allowing bitcoin exits, i mean by not allowing fiat exits
ThickAsThieves: right?
davout: mircea_popescu: if mtgox goes down you think btc goes down too?
mircea_popescu: yes.
pLambert: I think the mtgoox has shrunk enough that if they close it will not destroy the exchange rate
mircea_popescu: davout even if it only goes down a little through mtgox being taken out of the basket.
pLambert: and people have been pricing in the expected collapse of mtgox for almost a year now
mircea_popescu: currently they're adding a few %s to the avg.
davout: mircea_popescu: oic
mircea_popescu: pLambert this is more of a nominalist thing than anything. bitcoin's long term prospects w/o mtgox are way better than with it.
ThickAsThieves: I read the $5m were seized from Gox related to silk road
ThickAsThieves: they probly let those dollars get spent on btc
mircea_popescu: in fact, the destruction of the original scumfest (the people gorupped around blf, bitcoinica, mtgox, the foundation) is the best thing that can happen for btc.
mircea_popescu: and well... chip chip.
pLambert: mircea_popescu: if mtgox had suddenly shut down when they had 90% of the market the price would tank, now the price might slip a bit but not much
mircea_popescu: they keep trying comebacks, but they aren't getting anywhere with them. meanwhile they bleed marketshare on good days, and they get taken out wholesale now and again.
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Those GOx seizures were pre-TSR bust
punkman: they don't even make the top 5 in volume most days
ThickAsThieves: I know
davout: from the wiki in 2015: "victim of its own success mtgox will went back to trading magic the gathering cards in summer 2014"
ThickAsThieves: but recently revealed more info
ThickAsThieves: i swear i read somewhere that SR was actually part of it
ThickAsThieves: just that it couldnt be announced back then
ThickAsThieves: could also be what fucked up the Coinlab thing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.1099 = 0.3297 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51997563 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: other than it involving coinlab...
mircea_popescu: lol. right. coinlab needed so much help.
mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=449932.0 << believe it or not, someone still says "information superhighway". not ironically.
ozbot: Petition-LETTER to regulator Ben Lawsky of NY "The World is Watching on Bitcoin"
ThickAsThieves: i suspect Lawsky doesnt need to be sent a letter
jurov: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 284354 | Current Difficulty: 2.6214044530646152E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 286271 | Next Difficulty In: 1917 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 9 hours, 51 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2828879503.75 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.91465
mircea_popescu: yeah, probably the head of the boss of whatever mob family paid for his position would work better.
ThickAsThieves: http://investor-relations.thestreet.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=823490
ozbot: New Survey: 79% Of Consumers Would Never Consider Using Alternative Currency Like Bitcoin (NASDAQ:TS
mircea_popescu: derp.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.109 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: im sorry i don't have a handy link to the 1905 study asking the population of manchester if they'd ever fly across the atlantic in a plane.
assbot: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.C095T] 100 @ 0.02383907 = 2.3839 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.10918 = 0.5459 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.11 = 0.33 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 1061 @ 0.001773 = 1.8812 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.11 = 0.55 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.11 = 0.88 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.09966666 = 0.299 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.105 = 1.05 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2070 @ 0.000121 = 0.2505 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.0001205 = 0.3615 BTC [-]
btc-monkey: Damn Gox going down hard
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 930 @ 0.00012 = 0.1116 BTC [-]
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 908.79667, Best ask: 909.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.20333, Last trade: 905.0, 24 hour volume: 4942.50335387, 24 hour low: 900.0, 24 hour high: 939.93, 24 hour vwap: 917.68982
assbot: 123!
ThickAsThieves: i suppose its better to have goxcash than goxcoins
mircea_popescu: o shit
mircea_popescu: one doesn't preclude the other and now you've jinxed it haven't you
mircea_popescu: karpeles will be making wafflecoin this year
deadweasel: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/02/eff-challenges-new-jersey-subpoena-issued-mit-student-bitcoin-developers
ozbot: EFF Challenges New Jersey Subpoena Issued to MIT Student Bitcoin Developers | Electronic Frontier Fo
jurov: meanwhile in slovenia, bitstamp goes overboard with doxing
ThickAsThieves: convert all your gox bitcoins to BounceyBallCoins!
jurov: i heard compalints they have very creepy questions
jurov: and want to reverify documents
mircea_popescu: someone should just cut the gordian knot already and do SiPexchange.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.19376446 = 0.9688 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: they send you a pen, you film yourself fucking the pen and send the thing over
BingoBoingo: I'm telling you gox could say Gox BTC == 10^8 Gox USD tomorrow, because all is play money
mircea_popescu: you may now trade.
ThickAsThieves: it's gonna be a bloody evening
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.19376446 = 0.5813 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: But in December, the New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs issued a subpoena to Rubin, requesting he turn over Tidbit's past and current source code, as well as other documents and agreements with any third parties. It also issued 27 interrogatories -- formal written questions -- requesting additional documents and ordering Rubin to turn over information like the names and identities of all Bitcoin wallet addresses a
mircea_popescu: ssociated with Tidbit, a list of all websites running Tidbit's code and the name of anybody whose computer mined for Bitcoins through the use of Tidbit, although Tidbit's code was not configured to mine for Bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: dude srsly ? how is the us legal system still a thing ?
mircea_popescu: the only reasonable answer to this sort of crap being "get fucked"
mircea_popescu: what business sends over its book just because someone wants to see it ?!
herbijudlestoids: morning folks :)
mircea_popescu: ello
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://nj.gov/oag/newsreleases13/pr20131119a.html << there you go, esports botnet.
mircea_popescu: total take ? why, like 3500 bucks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.19376446 = 0.3875 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: so last night i was thinking of forking tails, and ripping out tor and filling it with i2p app goodness
herbijudlestoids: because right now the latest tails is one version behind on i2p
DrSteveBrule: hello everyone :)
herbijudlestoids: but i found this http://www.ipredia.org/ ...unfortunately also one version behind
mircea_popescu: are you so certain of i2p strength ?
herbijudlestoids: nope, if i was, i wouldnt bother with OTR
mircea_popescu: so then why bother.
mircea_popescu: tho an actually secure replacement for the web would be a decent use of bitcoin resources.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 83 @ 0.00325 = 0.2698 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: not even compatible, mind you. pick port 90 and create a wholly and completely different thing.
mircea_popescu: ideally based on a stateful protocol.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: there was a guy very much like satoshi who came up with iip/i2p originally....very smart guy, i remember i used to hang on the #iip chatroom inside iip back when i was a kid
herbijudlestoids: its pretty secure
herbijudlestoids: but i cant really be sure
mircea_popescu: pretty secure crypto is like reasonably healthy whore.
herbijudlestoids: i view it as like...sort of like a 'actually secure replacement for the s/web/internet' ...kind of like a public VPN that anyone can piss in
herbijudlestoids: the problem with i2p is the problem with all p2p networks
mircea_popescu: nah, you want an adressing scheme where the routing of packets depends on the destination's identity.
mircea_popescu: that came out stupid.
mircea_popescu: you want an adressing scheme where the reading of packets depends on the destination's identity.
mircea_popescu: some sort of "gpg encrypted to ip"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.19376446 = 1.9376 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51250021 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: if you're not X the packet's gibberish
mircea_popescu: makes all route nodes unable to filter traffic, plain and simple.
mircea_popescu: built-in net neutrality.
herbijudlestoids: explain
mircea_popescu: you familiar with gpg right ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 390 @ 0.00304796 = 1.1887 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 87 @ 0.00328189 = 0.2855 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: yes, just wanting to see if what youre after is matched by https://geti2p.net/en/docs/how/garlic-routing
mircea_popescu: well, if i give you a list of gpg messages encrypted to a bunch of my friend's keys
mircea_popescu: all you can do is deliver them or not deliver them
mircea_popescu: you can't possibly deliver all those about apples, but keep all those about fish
mircea_popescu: meh, all this onion/garlic bs.
mircea_popescu: i am not at all interested in keeping secret my identity.
mircea_popescu: i am strictly interested in keeping secret the messages passed back and forth.
herbijudlestoids: well that seems a bit odd
mircea_popescu: tbh it seems to me all the enthusiasm of the darknet people is woefully misdirected.
herbijudlestoids: so you hold no concern over the security of your metadata?
mircea_popescu: none.
mircea_popescu: and i think mixing together securitization of data and of metadata is an epic mistake.
mircea_popescu: these are wildly divergent usecases.
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's like trying to make a chowchow swim.
mircea_popescu: you're better served by a dry chow chow and an otter.
herbijudlestoids: well i personally am not mixing them lol
mircea_popescu: see ?
mircea_popescu: nobody sane is mixing them
mircea_popescu: except the kids doing stuff like onions, garlic and other vegetables.
herbijudlestoids: do you feel like i2p at least makes a reasonable tool for metadata securitization, to use your term?
mircea_popescu: someone they have in their wot should tell them this is prime rib of stupid. separate these.
mircea_popescu: don't use that term lol, it's a direct pastiche from romanian and in english it's a term of art with diff meaning.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea if it does or doesn't and really can't be arsed to find out, cause what do i care.
mircea_popescu: but i tell you... i am mp. i have always been mp. everyone else is fkghsgeiohgiurehg. to what gain and for what benefit ?
mircea_popescu: none.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1089 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it's just this stupid thing everyone does because everyone's doing.
mircea_popescu: "gotta have a sikrit nick!!1"
herbijudlestoids: lol let me be frank
mircea_popescu: ok, so you're frank.
herbijudlestoids: if i thought i could conduct the communicatoins i needed over OTR using jabber
herbijudlestoids: i would
herbijudlestoids: but there is certain communications that i simply dont want associated with my actual identity
herbijudlestoids: so i need a mixnet to handle the traffic
FabianB_: what you're describing sounds like cjdns (encryption of the network, but i think not anonymity)
mircea_popescu: what, exactly ? so i feel like posting nudes one day. herpderp what, god forbid someone associates it ?
mircea_popescu: let them associte it, what of.
herbijudlestoids: OTR keeps the actual messages secure
mircea_popescu: i think you're confused as to what otr actually does.
herbijudlestoids: FabianB_: i know cjdns, prefer i2p
mircea_popescu: FabianB_ iguess it does huh
FabianB_: herbijudlestoids: coz you want the anonymity i guess
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: why do you seem to think OTR does not encrypt the conversations?
herbijudlestoids: second time youve mentioned it
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids otr makes exactly two guarantees : that only your intended recipient can read your next line, and that should someone obtain the plaintext of your communications they can't prove that it is in fact yours rather than theirs.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.00012001 = 0.36 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it doesn't make the gpg guarantee that old conversations can never be read by third parties.
herbijudlestoids: ...
herbijudlestoids: are you referring to perfect forward secrecy?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.1089625 = 0.8717 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: that's probably a narrowing down, but anyway
herbijudlestoids: OTR implements perfect forward secrecyt
herbijudlestoids: each message has its own discarded AES key negotiated by DH
mircea_popescu: "Anyone can forge messages after a conversation to make them look like they came from you. However, during a conversation, your correspondent is assured the messages he sees are authentic and unmodified."
mircea_popescu: basically, otr guarantees stuff for during a conversation. not really for after it closes.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.1099 = 0.9891 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51250002 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: this is reflected in many implementations - you can generally find plaintext logs of old otr convos if you dig up your log dir.
herbijudlestoids: lucky i use tails
mircea_popescu: i'm by no means saying otr is bad or anything. i use it extensively for that matter
herbijudlestoids: i find it confusing because you seem to imply the messages are not encrypted
herbijudlestoids: being able to forge additional messages post conversation really means nothing to my threat model
mircea_popescu: certainly they're encrypted.
herbijudlestoids: but theyre not "secure"?
mircea_popescu: did you just tell me you're promising to pay 10 btc for a stuffed dollie five minutes ago ?
mircea_popescu: cause if you didn't i'd guess it's possible the forging aditional messages may mean something even for your threat model :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1089 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: err no, because youre talking about tying my identity to a key
herbijudlestoids: who is this "me" who promised "you" a thing
herbijudlestoids: i dunno who that is
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: kind-of why gribble implements ;;ident
herbijudlestoids: i got no issues with GPG, but most of the conversations where i care about the security of it, i dont want it tied to my identity if at all possible
herbijudlestoids: some things i work on, require very very high opsec
herbijudlestoids: at least for peace of mind
mircea_popescu: now, the security provided by ;;ident is necessary for business. the security provided by otr is necessary for gossip
mircea_popescu: since i do more business than gossip... i'm not so impressed with onion and garlic and so on.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50550001 = 1.011 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: ignore the nomenclature, i just pasted the link to see if it met your requirements of passing traffic based on keys
herbijudlestoids: which i think it does...
mircea_popescu: yeah, i'm just codgery and will find random things to bitch about
herbijudlestoids: im used to the type i guess lol, spent some time with owsley in his old age, very codger
mircea_popescu: In I2P, tunnels are unidirectional. Each party builds two tunnels, one for outbound and one for inbound traffic. Therefore, four tunnels are required for a single round-trip message and reply.
mircea_popescu: the overhead on this thing seems nutty.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.109 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: see, this is why i say it fails : the overhead imposed by all the sha(sha(sha(sha bs to keep metadata secret from downstream hops
mircea_popescu: makes it fucking unusable.
herbijudlestoids: its extremely usable
herbijudlestoids: im using it lol
mircea_popescu: just gpg the package and send it over. i definitely like fabian's cjdns much more
mircea_popescu: hey dub, what if all internet traffic henceforth needed 4 tunnels built up per connection ?
herbijudlestoids: lel
herbijudlestoids: why would you use it for all internet traffic
herbijudlestoids: the whole point is to use it for traffic that you dont want associated with your IP
mircea_popescu: you do not understand the nature of idiocy.
herbijudlestoids: always possible, explain it for me
mircea_popescu: the whole point of the bitcoin code was to prototype an idea, not to be used for srs.
mircea_popescu: and if you think the point of http was webstores...
herbijudlestoids: so youre saying? idiots will use i2p for uses other than its original use?
mircea_popescu: i'm saying that it is a design with massive overhead for dubious reasons.
mircea_popescu: imo, ianae etc.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.109 = 0.327 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu i want to send you a message. but i dont want anyone to know it was me that sent you the message
jurov: heh. last time you were completely fine with needing a middleman because both computers connected to "internet" are behind NAT
mircea_popescu: why not ?
jurov: that's unnecessary ovehead, too
mircea_popescu: jurov not in the same sense, is it ? nat is unnecessary overhead in the sense shoes are unnecessary overhead.
mircea_popescu: they're not overhead, they're undefoot.
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I have to say I underestimated you when you first arrived, but you are still only halfway to Bitcoin
BingoBoingo: Encryption is the boring part of GPG
BingoBoingo: Shit doesn't get interesting until signatures.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu lets just say if certain people found out it was me who sent you the message, they could turn up at my doorstep and coerce more messages from me
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids so fyck you then, why am i talking to you ?
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Black bag / Rubber Hose cryptoanalysis is more expensive than people imagine.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu well when i say you its the "example" you, not the actual mirpop you
mircea_popescu: but my point is :
herbijudlestoids: so for potentially any number of reasons. maybe we are organising a protest together
mircea_popescu: sure, the guardian may want to have a random info dead drop, and i guess they may even read it
herbijudlestoids: (im not)
mircea_popescu: tho it seems unlikely they would even read it, seeing how book publishers 20 years ago didn't read all the manuscripts they got
mircea_popescu: and those cost $$$
mircea_popescu: but if you imagine random joe q person is going to spend resources to go through messages that cost nothing to make up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 14 @ 0.109 = 1.526 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and can't be traced to a source... you're nuts, plainly stated.
herbijudlestoids: i know my threat model :)
herbijudlestoids: i cant say too much about it
mircea_popescu: that's fine, forget your model.
ThickAsThieves: it's DPR!
mircea_popescu: think about what's likely to happen irl, when designing.
mircea_popescu: instead of starting from weird edge cases, which then result in insane implementations that protect things that in the end don't matter.
herbijudlestoids: but if youre willing to accept the idea that i might like to discuss things with someone and not have parties on the wire who can identify me conversating specifically with that person...
mircea_popescu: so the nsa knows i talked to a hooker. fuck them, i can post pics on trilema just as well.
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 904.7, Best ask: 904.8, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 904.7, 24 hour volume: 7160.10059477, 24 hour low: 890.1731, 24 hour high: 939.93, 24 hour vwap: 911.77043
herbijudlestoids: soooo
mircea_popescu: i don't need an entire networking protocol to do that, tho.