mircea_popescu: cloudflare is one of the worst things that happened to the internet recently.
mircea_popescu: the same asswipe public that keeps forcing isps to do these "unlimited" bs deals and "everything for fiddy cents" and so on
mircea_popescu: those same people turn around and pay cloudlfare to... hijack their dns and talk about "rays'
mircea_popescu: dub sorry your message couldn't be delivered because clourflare. ray id 98759847
mircea_popescu: pankkake the recent netcraft report actually fucking mentions cloudflare
pankkake: cloudflare is mostly free by the way
mircea_popescu: because that's why i read netcraft reports, for bullshit product placement.
mircea_popescu: i'm so sick of this pretend fiat capitalism thing they do.
mircea_popescu: pankkake i wonder if i could get tor through cloudflare on an amazon server ?
assbot: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.C125T] 317 @ 0.01531827 = 4.8559 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i didn't know you still had menstruation in frigid slovenia.
ozbot: BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD
kakobrekla: a few more days and ill set it to +m , we do not need to converse any longer
kakobrekla: but there you got all that pussy voices
ThickAsThieves: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.C125T] 317 @ 0.01531827 = 4.8559 BTC [-] <<< Bugpowder wants to play
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: heavy lel @ that action bronson video
nubbins`: what sort of security guard pops up on stage and shoves the performer?
nubbins`: after the second shove back, i think the guard realized he was in too deep
nubbins`: funny tho, crowd tossing joints up on stage
nubbins`: he lights them and throws them back
ThickAsThieves: people have started conspirati to say he hires people to make shit like that happen at his shows
ozbot: Action Bronson - "Strictly 4 My Jeeps" (Official Video) - YouTube
nubbins`: more badass than 90% of rap videos
nubbins`: reminds me of when billy corgan let it slip that he didn't like the way his band played on siamese dream
nubbins`: so he re-recorded all their parts himself
nubbins`: "hey, remember that landmark piece of pop culture history that you thought you were a part of?"
nubbins`: "well, turns out you're just a name in the liner notes"
chipug: my client freaked out. someone swore and mentioned cloudflare
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04948998 = 0.2474 BTC [-]
nubbins`: peta being an SI prefix, not an acronym
dub: ThickAsThieves: kinda like vengaboys throwing wads of cash into crowds
kakobrekla: lol mircea_popescu, endoftheworld.swf outside, 4 days bash queue UNACEPTABRU
dub: its just a big of climate change, chill out
ozbot: A LAND BASED CASINO IN CYPRUS IS NOW ACCEPTING BITCOIN | Play With Coin
ozbot: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD - YouTube
herbijudlestoids: ThickAsThieves: thx! i saw a tweet about it and wanted to watch
ThickAsThieves: cuz i'd hate him for making me take these words seriously
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20782 @ 0.00093713 = 19.4754 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: if you acknowledge sin you can make better computer chips
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> lol mircea_popescu, endoftheworld.swf outside, 4 days bash queue UNACEPTABRU <<<
dub: kakobrekla needs to show more commitment to the team
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: This is Activemining Ken, the one based in Springfield Missouri?
ThickAsThieves: talking about how if we accept jesus we can make better tech
BingoBoingo: But Jesus preaches flatness and poverty. Satan though teaches structure and efficiency. Has he read the Divine Comedy? Hell is nothing if not organized.
mircea_popescu: more like "our delivery would be nothing short of miraculous at this pooint "
kakobrekla: hashes are like prayers, you dont know what god will use them for as you dont know what Luke-Jr will use them for
dub: havent seen much on the bitcoin is the devils one world currency tip
dub: unless raping your own children is your deal
Luke-Jr: still trolling hard in here, I see.
nubbins`: ^ he's talking about nye vs ham
Luke-Jr: a hardcore evolutionist would-be dictator
mircea_popescu: this was the perfect plot in my head : dub says its a bill, pankake says i thought its a coin
nubbins`: we'll have to work on our timing
dub: Luke-Jr says evilldooer
nubbins`: maybe if he smoked some dutch he'd figure a few things out ;(
dub: try not to die in a fire xx
nubbins`: wait a minute, i wasn't doing that before.
pankkake: my head is kinda eating itself
nubbins`: chewing your hair doesn't count
dub: mircea_popescu: please tell me you've seen Nell
dub: jodie foster at her most fuckable
nubbins`: because he used to have a show explaining science to kids
nubbins`: and today he's explaining it to sub-human mouth breathers
mircea_popescu: dub i have added it to the list of films the girls will be stealing
dub: perfect casting too, all she had to do was act retarded!
nubbins`: you can actually see the people in the crowd who just aren't listening
ozbot: Dogecoin Just Solved A Problem Bitcoin Will Face - Business Insider
BingoBoingo: Dogecoin and Business Insider were made for each other.
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 "how to spend money you don't have to pay people nobody reads to say ridiculously stupid shit which is how they got to not be read in the first place" ?
mircea_popescu: you take two professional joggers and dress them up in facebook polo shirts.
mircea_popescu: " That's a lot to pay for a single Bitcoin for someone just entering the market. "
dub: this is why we ignore australia
pankkake: "Money, like every commodity, works best when the supply can adjust efficiently to the demand." that is EXACTLY bernankoin
pankkake: doge is still inflating less each year
mircea_popescu: pankkake it's fascinating how they completely gloss over the part where one group (the scammers behind it) stole the resources of the rest of the people involved (every idiot that bought some, mined some, or pumped it up until two days ago)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: this happens, of course, tol ALSO be exactly how "normal" fiat currencies like the dollar operate.
mircea_popescu: fuck you granpa, so you've worked for thirty years to make the us work ? here's some inflation. enjoy your fixed income.
mircea_popescu: and the fact that this will continue happening i nthe future, arbitrarily, is like... splendeed.
herbijudlestoids: its worse than that mircea_popescu because not all granpas get it equal
nubbins`: whenever bill nye mentions science, he makes a gesture that indicates he's talking about things that happen outside the building he's in
herbijudlestoids: if you started on the fixed income 10y ago, much better than 5y ago
Duffer1: herbijudlestoids sorry to hear that mate, do you plan to keep up with the blogging?
dignork: somebody wishes to co-rent with me seedbox account? it's 14EU/mo, but I want to pay only half of it.
herbijudlestoids: Duffer1: i am thinking of writing a piece on the "market implied EPS growth rate" of MPOE, but want to verify the data that i can see on btcalpha
Duffer1: i don't know if the audience for that manner of analysis is here yet in bitcoinland, but i bet it will be sometime
herbijudlestoids: well, i did implement one of my simple mean reversion models for MPOE too, maybe a "trade this and get rich quick" blog post will be more persuasive :P
Duffer1: yea lol that'd do it, even if your blog was hokus pokus magic it'd still be popular
herbijudlestoids: im not doing this for an audience or anything, its all a matter of incidental curiosity, but i thought your suggestion was nice :)
mike_c: herbijudlestoids: you have a question about the data on btcalpha?
mircea_popescu: did you just stick with braindamaged blogspot and then whine that nobody seems to have noticed ?
pankkake: kakobrekla: for now you have to bail yourself out by printing more
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: lol well its not that nobody noticed, the post is *still* getting hits, was referring to a couple of the comments left on /r/BitCoin
pankkake: I'll take better ideas for YellenCoin
kakobrekla: bailout would mean no actual work was done pankkake
herbijudlestoids: mike_c: not a question so much as i dont know who runs/operates the website so i dunno if i can trust the data...just wanted to verify it myself
mike_c: data is culled from monthly reports on trilema. if you want to verify yourself, there are links to all the monthly reports on the left rail of the stock page
BingoBoingo: pankkake: For Yellencoin increase block reward as the square of the increase in mining difficulty?
nubbins`: i'd like to take a public-domain text and then typeset, silkscreen, and bind the entire thing by hand, but i'm having trouble choosing a book
nubbins`: not being religious, i can't think of a book i care enough about to put such an enormous amount of effort into
nubbins`: 'through the looking-glass' isn't long enough, know what i mean?
pankkake: maybe but still boring… maybe let the users "vote" on what should be the reward
nubbins`: kako, not sure. couple hundred max, maybe
herbijudlestoids: benkay: hmmm is there a page on fpcomplete.com which explains what exactly fpcomplete is? :P
nubbins`: bonus points if it's something that a person might want to purchase at some point
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Maybe do that with the Federalist Papers? For the lulz of selling fancy copies to gringos in the Estados Unidos from Canada.
nubbins`: BingoBoingo, federalist papers?
nubbins`: log isn't really in a suitable format for books
dub: thousands of years after the great climate change cleansing a future civilisation will find it and build a religion
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.12799999 BTC [+]
benkay: also, herbijudlestoids think bout blogging as a long term thing you do - not one-off shots that might bring some fame
benkay: mp suggested blogging as a series of notes to self, as one can't actually remember all the bullshit waded through over a significant period of time.
dub: I used to maintain a private wiki for that
nubbins`: kakobrekla: not to mention that most of log isn't worth saving in the first place ;p
herbijudlestoids: when i said "the response was underwhelming" what i meant was that for ~200 pageviews, there was only a couple of comments from parties and only some of those comments were interesting
kakobrekla: wekk a buttcoin can make you famous in a single post benkay
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
mike_c: 100:1 readers to commenters isn't bad
kakobrekla: nubbins` prolly still best coffe table book, ever.
mike_c: you gotta include all the images though
nubbins`: hm, a hand-bound book of ascii pornography
☟︎ herbijudlestoids: he has a chart, which explains to that *moron* bill nye, how moses was 500 years old
kakobrekla: ascii nekkid chicks with bash quoetes under
ozbot: An analysis on Huobi.com's popularity vs web traffic data. : Bitcoin
KRS-: Now her butt is going to smell like that countertop.
nubbins`: fair warning, these will be expensive
nubbins`: well it depends on the number of pages
nubbins`: but on the scale of several hundred $ per copy
nubbins`: price decreases drastically with quantity, of cour
dub: do all the john copypastas
dub: that shit cracks me up
nubbins`: sorry, if it's a significant number of pages :)
nubbins`: i'm thinking one ascii porn image per page
jurov: illuminated letters?
jurov: or how do they call them.. calligraphy
kakobrekla: well i was thinking more of - a paper has 2 sides
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: I assume this is going to be some sweet acid free cotton paper... For Archaeologists?
nubbins`: ah, i see, i was picturing a couple of quotes per image
dub: find something funny
nubbins`: okay, so who can produce ascii pornography?
dub: I may have a collection
nubbins`: yeah, would need to be original
nubbins`: i suppose we could comb bash for the quotes
nubbins`: could even grab some choice gems from the forum
herbijudlestoids: nubbins`: if you google 'ascii art from images' there is plenty :)
herbijudlestoids: plenty of sites that convert images to ascii art, i mean, sorry
nubbins`: was about to say that's the same problem ;p
nubbins`: those generally produce enormous files tho
nubbins`: we're talking something that can fit on say an 8x10" page at 10-12pt font
benkay: no gdp bets on bitbet eh
herbijudlestoids: maybe the bitcoin economy should get its own GDP and we can bet on that
jurov: if you can think how it would be measured...
dub: you'd be counting the same coin as its restolen over and over from the tardcircle
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1331 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: Gross domestic product (GDP) is the market value of all officially recognized final goods and services produced within a country in a year
herbijudlestoids: make a list of whats officially recognised final g/s and calculate then sum their MVs :P
herbijudlestoids: could be opinionated and start with just, say, bitstamp, bitpay and MPEX
jurov: mpex monthly profit would thengo into gdp?
jurov: you'd end with rather low estimate
antephialtic: or you could use the quantity theory of money to estimate it. Y = MV where Y is output, M is the size of the money supply, and V is the velocity of money. Both M and V are easily computed in the case of bitcoin
jurov: just ask MP, he designated himself as official recognizer of all things btc :D
chipug: was hoping for some opinions
chipug: aw shame was really hoping you were still there copumpkin
ron-: what are you showing?
ozbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptib
mircea_popescu: Μούσα, τραγούδα το θυμό του ξακουστού Αχιλέα,τον έρμο! etc
ron-: oh, that must be romanian?
ron-: it does look greek i should know my character sets :`(
ron-: only yogurt and greek goddesses
chipug: in a subscription crypto service, what would you want as necessity?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
chipug: not really more interactive
mircea_popescu: <KRS-> Now her butt is going to smell like that countertop. << i'd be more worried about the reverse tbh
mircea_popescu: but anyway, if memory serves that thing started as a blog and became subscription based after building a base
mircea_popescu: so do the same thing, write a lot of smart insightful stuff, once you have a ton of readers add a subscription, wait for the cheapskates to butthurt away and that's that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Don't forget the form for selling credits
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets bash
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: bitcoin days destroyed is a decent estimate
mircea_popescu: antephialtic how do you reason to come to this conclusion ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00093713 = 13.3072 BTC [+]
chipug: thanks guys, you know mircea_popescu i think im currently in the waiting for the butthurt folk to piss off lol
BingoBoingo: antephialtic: What if someone moves 100K coins from one storage address to another to lessen the chance the coins are on an address that gets vanitygen'd
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is somewhat like asking for a showgirl that's read the classics.
dub: I am disappoint that you're giving it air
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13499999 BTC [+]
dub: its just teh same old brain damage
mircea_popescu: dub i bet you 90% of the ppl who read it because it's about doge never heard of dump and dillute.
chipug: not a blog, its a chat site. i took on coinchat and totally changed direction. its a bit dead now
dub: that trilemna articicle is the single biggest peice of press todate
mircea_popescu: dub "life is sweat and blood and making love to a woman you don't know and nobody prints your name in trilema until the day you die"
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: actually that is incorrect. A better measure the amount of bitcoin transferred over a given period/the length of the time period. Very noisy measure, but using a larger time period smooths it out
chipug: i see what you did there
mircea_popescu: someone was talking about my editor ? she's just said to me : "The price of Dogecoin, the world’s third most traded cyrptocurrency / did they seriously publish "cyrptocurrency"?"
mircea_popescu: i think this is memeworthy. the business insider cyrpt occurency.
BingoBoingo: Maybe Dogecoin gets a Haircut like Cyprto depositors did
mircea_popescu: someone should make a papp to bring cyrpt to the ipnohe.
ron-: does the bitcoin source on bitcoin.org allow you to generate your own custom coins?
ron-: or just client only?
BingoBoingo: So many things for benkay to derive revenue from if only altgen.io
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: have you looked at counterparty at all?
ron-: problem loading altgen
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one advantage of all the idiots being on the field is that the smart people kinda tend to just stick into the same team.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic if you expect to justify a theoretical model by the effect it has on data you are living in a state of sin.
ron-: it took me a while to compile the client, i dislike lib boost :|
ron-: well i suppose it is a server too
antephialtic: antephialtic: well, in that case I'm living in a state of sin anyway because velocity is traditionally computed from output and money supply. The idea that one can measure it empirically is not really seen in mainstream economics, as far as I can tell from a brief review of the literature
mircea_popescu: antephialtic the problem, as BingoBoingo pointed out to you, is that in your model the greatest economic activity will occur whenever a major holder moves cold wallets.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know what happens to quarreling dogs once they see a wolf ?
KRS-: Cool thanks ozbot..ttyl
mircea_popescu: if they run or if they fight, they're doing it together.
ozbot: 2 Oscar winners join TV adaptation of The Book of Negroes - Toronto - CBC News
antephialtic: yes, I'm still thinking about a better way to measure velocity. If a good one is found it would be possible to create an altcoin with an algorithmic central bank that adjusts the block reward dynamically to target a certain output growth.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic which is kind-of why i believe it fundamentally can not be measured.
mircea_popescu: think about for a minute : i could hijack your bank's printing press just by moving my coins around ? sweet moses on a stick, this is like USD 2.0
antephialtic: yes, I agree that the concept has major game theoretic issues. But a coin that solved this issue would be useful primarily as a medium of exchange, rather than as a store of value.
mircea_popescu: why do you think the fiat role as a medium of exchange needs fixing ?
antephialtic: well, I have doubts about the long-term viability
mircea_popescu: as long as you redeem them for btc... they're as good as anything
mircea_popescu: in short, the medium of exchange function of the currency is a minor.
chipug: i guess i should get a cryptsy account to get rid of these flipping dogecoins huh
herbijudlestoids: lol mircea_popescu you are literally the FOFOA of bitcoin, where s/physical gold/bitcoin/
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, you mention in a couple of articles that bitcoin is deflationary rather than inflationary, and then point to the increasing supply as evidence of this
ozbot: The Pentium F00F Bug
mircea_popescu: believe it or not, my sum total interest for metals (precious and industrial) pre 2010 was pretty much nil.
mircea_popescu: i've looked into it since mostly to try and understand wtf is with these people
herbijudlestoids: well, i would say freegold completely discounts and (if you believe in it) discredits all the goldbug hypothesis bullshit thats out there
nubbins`: inflation refers to good increasing in price
nubbins`: not necessarily because of an expansion of the money supply
nubbins`: although that's usually the cause
nubbins`: but x bitcoins buys more goods over time
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow i invent a new way to make cakes, and cake prices drop 95%
mircea_popescu: this does not mean there's been inflation in the currency
nubbins`: sure, but inflation refers to the general increase
chipug: asshole scams me for 1.6btc > denies it > emails for the new website url = areyoufuckingshittingme? feel like emailing back saying sure thing fuckwit, url costs 1.6BTC
nubbins`: you can't say that there's deflation because pumpkins are cheap on november 1.
mircea_popescu: prices aren't a reference point for inflation tho, this is like saying she's a good lay cause she's a redhead.
herbijudlestoids: nubbins`: the modern definition of inflation is bullshit, its hedonistically adjusted and the general price includes all sorts of nonsense, which is completely disparately defined across countries
nubbins`: i can't speak to past definitions, but everything i'm reading says that the thing which is inflating is the price of goods
herbijudlestoids: soooo...defining inflation as a general price level increase is extremely fuzzy
nubbins`: okay, so if inflationary/deflationary is out
nubbins`: how do you verbally differentiate between a currency where purchasing power increases over time, and one where it decreases?
nubbins`: say, herpcoins where it's cheaper to buy an apple tomorrow than today
nubbins`: or derpdollars where it's cheaper to buy the apple today
herbijudlestoids: also purchasing power is a better proxy than inflation, because you can have inflation where the purchasing power of a dollar goes up, but also inflatoin where the purchasing power of a dollar goes down
mircea_popescu: nubbins` what's wrong with just saying "herpcoins has increased ppp and derpd's has decreased ppp ?"
nubbins`: i don't know how much apple i get, that's what's wrong
nubbins`: how many apples are in the bag i'm buying, whatever
mircea_popescu: maybe derpland has a bumper apple crop and herpfields a shortage.
mircea_popescu: maybe the one yearly boat taking apples from d to h sunk that year
mircea_popescu: i mean wtf, how did you end up pinning the world on the currency ?
nubbins`: well until five minutes ago i laboured under the impression that a 'deflationary currency' was one where the purchasing power increased over time (i.e. the cost of goods decreases)
nubbins`: but i think i've just never thought this through
nubbins`: who's to say purchasing power is constant over time, etc
mircea_popescu: nubbins` do you think on average bigger cars are faster ?
mircea_popescu: i mean to some very general degree this'd perhaps be true...
nubbins`: okay, no, i definitely had my cart before my horse here
nubbins`: tbh i never thought about it much until recently
nubbins`: well who knows what i'd have ended up thinking about if i'd gotten it right the first time
jborkl: Mircea, you know I love your writing. I am not very verbose but in a non competitive way bcoinews.com . I printed that first :)
nubbins`: wait, you're saying bigger brains aren't smarter?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1425 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: You tried to visit bcoinews.com, which is not loading.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.145 = 0.29 BTC [+]
jborkl: Bcoinnews.com my bad typo
ozbot: People have made blogs pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
jborkl: I feel honored to be mentioned on there, really. Thanks Mp
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you know like i was saying to diametric the other day, this article gets a lot of wordcount mileage out of the banal
jborkl: Yes, regular fiat business is booming and all the hardware I have has been taking up time basically tuning each chip
chipug: i pick the articles for their titles, not gonna lie :)
jborkl: I have a November jupiter up to 1th
chipug: why do gentlemen prefer blondes? (I'm brunette - had to read lol - very good )
chipug: thats why all the bait pics ive been mentioning the shoes....
chipug: probably not, i'm good at getting into bother
chipug: sorry if im in the way
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: some more than others, depends on who the target audience is
jborkl: Don't go into OTC and announce you are a chick.
chipug: forumites like to wind me up about it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform chetty is actually a girl too, the eulora chief of tech
ozbot: Shall be Delivered | The Whet
jborkl: Chipug, you Romanian also or VPN into a To freenode server
dub: think about vexual then realise the writer shares the same broken piece of genome
mircea_popescu: except vexual actually comes up with pretty good shit now and again
chipug: neither jborkl I am a scot
chipug: lol thanks ThickAsThieves
herbijudlestoids: bitcoin does not have a fixed supply, i am sure if the price goes up to $1,000,000,000,000 some supply will come out of the woodwork
mircea_popescu: there's a Department of Retarded Quotes somewhere, fucking shit up.
jborkl: Ha, ripple is now some type of retarded charity now
mircea_popescu: i swear the proportion of good to retarded quotes i read can not be explained away statistically.
chipug: what was that random site that has irc quotes?
chipug: thats the one! thanks!
jborkl: Well you have to divide IQ by # of sock puppet accts
herbijudlestoids: therefore the supply is not fixed, its just constrained by price
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids they really go over the deep end with this "fixed" bs.
mircea_popescu: as if the total heat differential i nthe universe weren't ALSO fixed.
ThickAsThieves: the US basically perverted advertising to the degree people are at least part salesman, or part sucker. it's a sad play but so many parts to fill.
mircea_popescu: it's just... kids that grew up without any limits having psychological issues.
chipug: who does the log keeping for here? not every channel has a log do they?
chipug: sounds like a killer deal man
chipug: but just think of your life rolling round your doge riches..... in 2080
jborkl: No, they no do maths good. Amazing
chipug: think they are pups mircea_popescu
herbijudlestoids: hahahahahaha pooorr github user "MadCold"...he wants recourse against an open source software developer for modifying his code
herbijudlestoids: " I still demand [Palmer] answer for what he's doing to ruin the DogeCoin currency." "
mircea_popescu: "for the good of the country everyone's gold must be confiscated"
jborkl: Print more, that fixes all problems. Signed by the treasury
ThickAsThieves: maybe we should make a coin that isnt a coin, just percentages
jborkl: Yep, just like that- that is divisible is not important
chipug: lol sorry lay on keyboard hence the 0; mircea_popescu i got smuggled in, was born in holland :P
mircea_popescu: they really should run drama contests, like a pageant.
mircea_popescu: "and then he said, I MUST EXPLAIN!!1" and I closed the pull request.
chipug: exist atm mircea_popescu
chipug: i used to be a hospital admin in a psychitric hospital for almost 8 years but they fuckedme over
dub: inb4 'would you be interested in taking insertion photos'
chipug: that was my first day on irc! my eyes
chipug: he is so proud of it too lol
ozbot: Revolutionary new cryptography tool could make software unhackable | ExtremeTech
Duffer1: s.nsa most valuable company ever
chipug: unhackable for how long... til someone works it out?
Duffer1: till the nsa intercepts all packages of box manufacturers and replaces them with compromised versions before sending them on
chipug: that's what i find so funny about people talking about bitcoin safety and hacking... it's all a continual cycle nowadays and that won't change. like leapfrog
mircea_popescu: i bet you we will have a major breakthrough in homomorphisms before we have one in quantum computing.
nubbins`: but how do you have disqussions?
mircea_popescu: and the case of futzing non-recursively with data is not covered.
mircea_popescu: what may work tho is indeed code that does the function of cardano in software.
mircea_popescu: so inasfar as that, it may be the case homomorphic software can be in fact written that protects the key say
mircea_popescu: or properly said, computer-scientifically. which is math anyway but w/e
mircea_popescu: the problem itself tho, "make me gpg which keeps my key safge and uses no pw", is not trivial.
mircea_popescu: if the whole proggy is the key then it;s not safe ipso definitio
mircea_popescu: ask the guy what his research is for that list he made sometime.
mircea_popescu: or a soft obamacare, which appears to work fine, but when your name is obama an email is sent to a certain address with your vaginal probe pics.
mircea_popescu: there's no way to pick really. you're on both ends always
ozbot: Romania Cuts Benchmark Rate to Record Low as Inflation Slows - Bloomberg
mircea_popescu: now you look at that chart and tell me that debtors beat savers in 2000-2005 ?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids yes. and the early spikes aren't exactly easy money either.
mircea_popescu: so it's not like there's something debatable really, it's entirely and flatly wrong, like a chinese man on a list of hepatic patiens.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.0009352 = 20.6679 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: i cant comment cos i dunno shit on the topic but i did fwd your statement and query on
mircea_popescu: i think you can probably write a brown note novel on this, you can literally drive math people to insanity.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: got a response, somewhere privatish i can send it to?
mircea_popescu: just keep going on with the description of the complexity until the reader falls over
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then, the product of the square of the first with an odd power of the second does
ozbot: Greg Egan - Luminous
ozbot: BookReader - Greg Egan - Luminous (2) (Egan Greg)
nubbins`: read this story once where the law of averages stopped working
nubbins`: e.g. everyone in manhattan decides to drive across the same bridge on the same evening, etc
nubbins`: technically wasn't really math fiction tho
nubbins`: most of the story was about attempts to legislate order back into society
nubbins`: only those whose surnames begin with A through F may visit the zoo on sundays, etc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.148 = 0.296 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.101 = 0.202 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 300 @ 0.00583999 = 1.752 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.148 = 0.592 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5689 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.56959993 = 1.7088 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 41 @ 0.00583999 = 0.2394 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.09111107 = 0.3644 BTC [+] {3}
herbijudlestoids: when i say dont touch the thing or youll break it, and then they touch the thing...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5698999 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00093552 = 12.5827 BTC [+] {2}
chipug: it doesnt even fit on the page properly!
chipug: mircea_popescu: wtf was that balloon guy thinking?!
dudesir: mircea is the 30 BTC fee going to change eventually?
dudesir: lol I was assuming downwards, I suppose MPEX is only for those who are already rich...
Namworld: The rules are like this, dudesir: fee will only increase or stay the same.
chipug: everything increases with time, even waistlines
herbijudlestoids: dudesir: its an exchange, do you have an account with the CME or NYSE? you have an account with your broker, who has a seat (or equiv) at the exchange
Namworld: MPEx doesn't need more members and doesn't offer much support.
Namworld: It's designed to work like any stock exchange.
Namworld: Not for everyone to sign up on.
Namworld: Only large brokers and large institutions.
Namworld: People with lower investments can use a broker like CoinBR to trade MPEx
dudesir: Does it cost 30000$ to get an acct at nyse?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5698999 BTC [+]
chipug: i could live off that for life!
dudesir: Ok, I think I understand, NYSE is like an underlying exchange and brokers are on top of it?
herbijudlestoids: and not just that but its not like you can just buy a seat at the NYSE, someone has to die or want to sell their seat
ozbot: NYSE, New York Stock Exchange > About Us > News & Events > News Releases > Press Release 12-30-2005
Namworld: I found this, looks like about 4 million in 2005
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10050 @ 0.00093454 = 9.3921 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: "However, to own a seat, a trader or broker must meet more criteria than simply being able to afford it. Prospective owners of the seats must go through a stringent review process and, once accepted, they are required to maintain high levels of compliance and ethics as the NYSE and governmental regulators constantly review members. "
mircea_popescu: well mpex users are also required to maintain high levels of compliance and ethics.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: do u need someone ethical like me to do due diligence on all your members? :P
mircea_popescu: it's a self-performing operation. one of these days ima wake up to a report of "and then X tried to break Y" and just go "so revoke X"
dudesir: So does being a member enable you to vote on what stocks get allowed? I think I have much research to do on how the NYSE operates...
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, if the average person knew a whole lot of how the real world functions they'd be pretty scandalised.
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean it's 5mn and a bunch of crap and al lyou get for it is the opportunity to eat the crap ?!?!!"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
herbijudlestoids: the price is only there as a barrier to entry, not as a meaningful representation of how much it costs to maintain the seat
Vexual: im in a loop thinking of numbers i don't understand, but there are external govt regulators vitoing bullshit on wall street no?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.118 = 0.944 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: you cant really be a specialist without having a seat or working for a bank/insto that does
herbijudlestoids: how many left and how much trading on them vs electronic outcry markets
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02988998 = 0.1494 BTC [-] {3}
ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5699 = 1.1398 BTC [+]
Vexual: do you know what will happen to unsold shares?
Vexual: did you read my question?
Vexual: you're allowed to say no
Vexual: always professional tat
ThickAsThieves: you could always say what you WANT to happen to the shares, like every other forum investor is about ti
Vexual: can you say what you would want to happen with them?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5699 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.04500001 = 0.675 BTC [-] {2}
Vexual: where are you? Teheran?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.55000531 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.04020196 = 0.402 BTC [-] {4}
DrSteveBrule: hello. I grabbed a lifeboat and we have not even hit the iceberg yet. Anyone else in the lifeboat with me? I have a 10 bag and a bluetooth speaker playing a bob marley mix
DrSteveBrule: ooh, and a magazine of Bears monthly. Warm fuzzy bears in my lifeboat.
benkay: how'd you construct that position?
DrSteveBrule: My apologies, I don't want to sound like one of those crazy people who just wants to come in a speak bullshit. My reasons for my current short position are 1) Elliot wave principle 2) I don't think the Chinese gov likes bitcoin 3) 4 million dollars worth of option puts bought on
http://mpex.co/ DrSteveBrule: I just came here to see if anyone felt the same?
DrSteveBrule: by the way, the option puts expire this month, and the strike price was set for between $400 - $500
DrSteveBrule: that was new news to me today, so correct me if I'm wrong. But thats quite the gamble
flins: but isn't the lot size 0.1btc?
ozbot: MASSIVE options order on apex.co
DrSteveBrule: flins, i believe you are looking at the price of the option contract
DrSteveBrule: for that specific type of contract (with end of feb expiration and strike around $400-$500) but that website is hard to understand, so I may be wrong. Coming in here to see if other see the same
benkay: the perspective you're missing is how much that person paid for those puts.
benkay: the breakeven on the position is a function of both the strike price and price paid.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
benkay: ;;google delusions options
DrSteveBrule: for example, i see 1000 @ 0.487 = 487 BTC with a stike at 500 / doesn't that mean they bought 1000 contracts at 0.487BTC?
benkay: ;;google serialized delusions options mpex
ozbot: MPEx: The Missing Manual 6 - Options - serialized delusions
benkay: building a finite state machine. can't be arsed with option pricing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
benkay: it's the world, really. most people just insulate themselves from it until that awful day it rears up in all of its raging complexity and they're forced to deal.
DrSteveBrule: yea, that should be taught in schools and in church. I believe there is a quote in the bible about options...
ozbot: 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 0 blocks | Estimated Change: 19.4628% in -1d 23h 39m 51s
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 30 @ 0.005 = 0.15 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00093403 = 23.631 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.118 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1977 @ 0.00012524 = 0.2476 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15499999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.155 = 0.31 BTC [+]
Mats_cd03: So if I'm to understand, shareholders of mpex are about to get a bigger than expected dividend
benkay: "about"? has january's not gone out yet?
chipug: benkay: does gribble save the link for when mircea next logs in?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20113 @ 0.00093713 = 18.8485 BTC [+]
Mats_cd03: how do you go about getting an invite to CoinBr
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.118 = 0.236 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.11985714 = 0.839 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.00584 = 0.3854 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.15499999 = 0.62 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.24310363 = 1.4586 BTC {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.569898 BTC [+]
Mats_cd03: so what do i do on coinbr to invest in mp
kakobrekla: do you see the big green button in the control panel? should say "INVEST IN MP"
kakobrekla: ahh yes it doesnt, because this is not a toy computer!
kakobrekla: no but really, the "how do i invest in mp" is not a valid question
kakobrekla: you want mpbor? you want mpoe shares? maybe trilema credits?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.12211249 = 0.9769 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
kakobrekla: blockr.io now shows bitcoin days destroyed for each tx which is kinda cute
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 94 @ 0.002999 = 0.2819 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: "The documents also show that JTRIG infiltrated chat rooms known as IRCs and identified individual hackers who had taken confidential information from websites."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12417 @ 0.00093818 = 11.6494 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: came out of nowhere, pasting charts n shit
kakobrekla: that is excatly what they would do to make us think we are safe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00093882 = 4.9757 BTC [+] {2}
herbijudlestoids: if you like, from now on i can upload the pictures to freenet and you can fetch them from there
kakobrekla: "wait wait, so his middle name is really 'osama'?" "yes garry, how convinient eh" "indeed, lets make him the director!"
kakobrekla: whatever, people think im from somalia.
kakobrekla: herbijudlestoids are you also operating on fx market?
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: yep i have access to the two largest interbank ECN :)
kakobrekla: or a passthrough or whatever you wanna call it
herbijudlestoids: Straight Through Processing...thats what Currenex is. a big matching pool for retail to get fleeced
herbijudlestoids: to give you an idea, my current broker offers a spread of 0.2 pips on EURUSD during Frankfurt/London/NY sessions
assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.
kakobrekla: herbijudlestoids you get about 0.5 pip on pro acc here
gribble: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must (1 more message)
kakobrekla: the point is bitcoin denomination anyway
herbijudlestoids: so i can pretty much guarantee youre running an unhedged book then?
kakobrekla: you cant imagine the pain our people went through to get this.
herbijudlestoids: advice from someone who trades FX seriously, but offering STP broker, 500:1 leverage and no swap is only going to attract retail weenies to get fleeced. real FX traders like ECN, probly max 10-20:1 LVR and want their swap
kakobrekla: but your arguments re leverage n stuff are not valid
kakobrekla: but i can see how that might appear on first look
herbijudlestoids: i will preface it and say its just my opinion, but serious traders only like to trade their money in real markets
herbijudlestoids: maybe im wrong and theres a hundred props out there just drooling to short bitcoin on leverage?
kakobrekla: ask people who opened an account in 2012 with 100 btc min
herbijudlestoids: and how did the brokerage account benefit them over keeping those 100btc in a wallet?
kakobrekla: 100 btc was something like 1k usd back then
herbijudlestoids: i understand that, but when they open the account with you all they are doing is changing their ownership of 100btc into ownining a liability from you to return 100btc
kakobrekla: brokerage only benefits from good traders
herbijudlestoids: i am not sure how that liability is inherently more profitable than the underlying asset
herbijudlestoids: look, i dont want to come off as negative nelly on your pet project
kakobrekla: profitability depends on your trading skills
herbijudlestoids: err exactly, profitability depends on trading skills, ergo, i have nothing to ask people who opened an account with 100btc in 2012
herbijudlestoids: if they are profitable its because of their skills or luck, and if not then not. nothing to do with the BTCUSD rate.
kakobrekla: i kept my exposure to btc while operating on fx market
herbijudlestoids: well, while "operating" on the FX market, you took on liabilities yourself, probably in several times excess more than the net value of your BTC on several occasions, so whatever premium you earned is a risk premium, thats all, nothing special
herbijudlestoids: am i funny because you think im wrong? pls lemme know how your strategy goes on nonlinear event days :)
herbijudlestoids: dude. FX trader talking here. i have been in the *real* market on leverage when the liquidity evaporated, on numerous times.
herbijudlestoids: so unless youre claiming that all of your trades are operating without leverage...
kakobrekla: im not sure whats confusing you to write all the bollocks really
herbijudlestoids: im not sure which bit you think is bollocks? do you really think you didnt take on any liabilities when placing leverage trades? do you really believe that stops on currenex are honoured during liquidity events?
herbijudlestoids: you should send an email to venetFX asking if they pool accounts :)
kakobrekla: anyway, i never had a case in 2 years where what you describe would be a problem
herbijudlestoids: i have experienced it trading USDJPY during the may 6 2010 flash crash
herbijudlestoids: well, i guess all i can say is i hope you never experience a 1% adverse move when youve got a 100:1 open trade :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 80 @ 0.005 = 0.4 BTC
kakobrekla: but yeah if people wanna gamble, let them gable
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: in europe i like dukascopy and have an account there, but rarely use it anymore since pepperstone came to australia.
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: i got a bunch of models for FX that i cant use, want em? :D
herbijudlestoids: these are models where the goal is to generate a ~10%CAGR over ~10y with low/no correlation to regular asset classes
herbijudlestoids: mostly for EURUSD since that is my bread and butter, but a couple of adaptive ones that tend to work as part of a portfolio of model
kakobrekla: why is it that you cant use them anyway
herbijudlestoids: well i build more models than i need, and only have so much capital, plus some are more tax constraining than others
herbijudlestoids: here ya go, i wrote this mean reversion model for EURUSD in R and as well an MQL4 copy, i noticed you support MT4 as the platform so this one is probly easier
herbijudlestoids: basically betting against short term action and sizing based on position in the long term range
herbijudlestoids: i have a better version which uses a couple of simple regime filters somewhere, that allos the same model to work on all the major pairs...lemme see if i can find it
kakobrekla: > if(Close[1] < Close[n] && Close[1] > Close[s]) {
kakobrekla: after a year of simplicifying i ended up with 5k+ lines of code in 3 seperate processes
herbijudlestoids: i also got a follow through model somewhere, built originally for GBPUSD...called (no surprise) deconfidence, cant find it right now
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: i should clarify. these models are not for intraday use, they trade on an EOD basis
kakobrekla: ill bounce it to enky, he does evaluations n shit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00093504 = 16.5502 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: i guess im interested to see what he has to say, the mean reversion model i actually implement is not *too* far off that ;)
herbijudlestoids: basically, depending on my gross income in a given year i can have my tax treated differently...trading certain positions allows me to claim them as hedges against other positions in other markets...much better tax treatment, better overall annual return
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 825 @ 0.002999 = 2.4742 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: btc denomination i dont think will help me unless i plan on never repatriating any profits
herbijudlestoids: which i need to do, so i can rebalance various investments etc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 197 @ 0.0029998 = 0.591 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: because i have to explain to the tax office where the money in my account is coming from? and if i just say "selling bitcoins" then i have to pay 50% capital gains tax?
kakobrekla: well move then, no fx or btc gains tax here
kakobrekla: and that question mark on the end, does that mean you are unsure
kakobrekla: well you have capital gain tax here but not for spot fx or btc
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: no not unsure, i guess i thought it was an obvoius question
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.15 = 0.3 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: well different countries have different laws
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
kakobrekla: bitcoin assets : where g5 is consumer goods
herbijudlestoids: i hear the US AG was in sweden today, think there is some trouble brewing over the assange case
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150 @ 0.00093764 = 0.1406 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: herbijudlestoids you want the short answer or the long answer
herbijudlestoids: kakobrekla: always the long answer, even though i dont know which question youre referring to :D
kakobrekla: low pf, very low sortino, good to catch reversals, return is shit compared to all the risks
kakobrekla: we dicarded models with twice the performance of that
herbijudlestoids: like i said, i write way more models than i need, store them if they make ~$10,000 from $10,000 in ~10y and discard if not
kakobrekla: you will be dead by the time you make money
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.24310363 = 1.2155 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0001244 = 0.1244 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1632 @ 0.00012218 = 0.1994 BTC [-] {5}
ThickAsThieves: "The Auroracoin is set to release in less than two months and has a very unique distribution plan. It will give every Icelander 31.8 Auroracoins (AUC)."
chipug: thats a bloody ace idea
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5699 BTC [+]
truffles: splains why relevant stuff on page 2..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
ThickAsThieves: i know this might sound bad, but is there any good research on using ignorant crowds as indicators?
ThickAsThieves: something like, 85% of bitcointalk thinks A is the right choice, thus B is more likely to be correct
truffles: plenty of ignorant smart ppl itc :D
ThickAsThieves: it's more about polling people that "think" or have been "taught" to think their superficial understanding is useful
truffles: but are they aware of that ignorance
chetty: ThickAsThieves: easy, look at election results ...
truffles: well business and finance arent usually where u find the brightest bunch
truffles: IT makes me more disappoint sometimes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.15 = 0.45 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.15 = 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.0009345 = 5.7005 BTC [-]
Duffer1: Max Keiser, the human spambot
Duffer1: why am i following his twitter
ThickAsThieves: you follow him because he's the most visible hardcore bitcoiner
Duffer1: i don't know if i know enough to discount his seemingly algorithmic financial-word-salad spam
Duffer1: hardcore is a good word for it
ThickAsThieves: i only pay some attention to him because of his devotion and that sometimes cooler people spend time with him
Apocalyptic: truffles, what have you been up to lately ?
truffles: not much, i did miss my fav opp :D
truffles: u eat the extra thin layer skin of pistachios?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 5 @ 0.083608 = 0.418 BTC [-] {4}
truffles: thought paypal was the unsafe way to do transactions anyways
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00557127 = 0.5571 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.55110111 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00083999 = 0.126 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 322 @ 0.003 = 0.966 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.0299 = 0.1196 BTC [+]
punkman1: "Concerned about the security of his digital bitcoins, Russell agreed to digitally submit 201.7 bitcoins to a man in the United Kingdom for 190 physical bitcoins"
deadweas1l: he only lost 10, sounds like a deal for the ignorant.
Diablo-D3: deadweas1l: uh? he lost all of them, no?
Diablo-D3: theres no such thing as a physical bitcoin
Duffer1: sounds like he was trying to buy some cascs from a scammer
punkman1: but they were btctalk buddies for a year, such trust
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.08302001 = 0.3321 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 230 @ 0.07761573 = 17.8516 BTC [-] {19}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 129 @ 0.003 = 0.387 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0001205 = 0.1205 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1130 @ 0.003 = 3.39 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2850 @ 0.00093366 = 2.6609 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: told me if i watched some vido ad for 30secs i'd have 4hours of no ads
Duffer1: spotify is better in every way
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 200 @ 0.005 = 1 BTC
Duffer1: their channels are more in line with the type of music you're likely looking for, spotify's radio feature just don't compare
Duffer1: i haven't even tried gmusic
punkman1: that's because Pandora pays people to categorize every song
punkman1: too bad they shut it down in EU
Duffer1: i went from pandora to grooveshark to spotify, i haven't tried google music or lastfm
Duffer1: pandora is shutdown in the uk?
ThickAsThieves: i accidentally went to pandora via a EU VPN and was like uhhh wtf
punkman1: I don't think it works in the UK, not sure
punkman1: their logo is too pixelated for me to trust them
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
Duffer1: i'm surprised how easy it was to rhyme Popescu
ThickAsThieves: The latest Snowden-related revelation is that Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) proactively targeted the communications infrastructure used by the online activist collective known as Anonymous.
ThickAsThieves: Specifically, they implemented distributed denial of service (DDoS) attacks on the internet relay chat (IRC) rooms used by Anonymous. They also implanted malware to out the personal identity details of specific participants.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
Duffer1: i'm curious how they delivered the malware
ThickAsThieves: they probably had more than one option at their disposal
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.56989699 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.56989799 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
mircea_popescu: whoa. so i go to call up benkay who ofcourse isn't on, and i hit on bettyclamp ? who are ye!
ThickAsThieves: Former Minnesota governor and pro wrestler Jesse Ventura is currently on the press circuit around the launch of his talk show Off the Grid, but only from an undisclosed location in Mexico, safe from the prying camera-eyes of drones. "I'm off the grid," he said in an interview with CNBC yesterday. "I move about with my TV show so that the drones can't find me, and that you won't know
ThickAsThieves: exactly where I am as long as we have solar power and we can reach the satellite."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: but i mean what the fuck is with these people, it's quite plain to explain that talking to a satellite is like yelling really really loudly.
mircea_popescu: he imagines that "as long as i got my coffee and can yell to the wifey for sandwiches the kids don;t know where in the house i am to come asking for money" ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: no he's saying it for the people that do worry about that shit
mircea_popescu: he could say something intelligent that'd work just as well
mircea_popescu: bar that, he could say something unstupid that worked just as well
ThickAsThieves: well as a "pro" wrestler, it's surprising he'd compromise his integrity for attention
mircea_popescu: that, incidentally, would be one of the cool things to do :
mircea_popescu: a bitcoin google. you can advertise on it on the bitbet model and fu govts.
mircea_popescu: have an actual coin whose pow is related to spidering websites
ThickAsThieves: sucks to not have a legion of competent programmers at our disposal to explore every whim
punkman1: spidering is the easy part, indexing and answering queries fast is the problem
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 135 @ 0.00305999 = 0.4131 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: the thing is, one of the fundamental business strategy mistakes google fell into is
punkman1: like I wanted to put commoncrawl data on AWS and run my own queries, but fuck it if it's gonna cost me $20 per query
mircea_popescu: you'd rather have 5 second waits for excellent search pages than the current search pages in .5 seconds
mircea_popescu: they didn't start this way, back when larry and serghey, but over the course of "business" various moles slowly optimized towards it
punkman1: not enough seconds for everyone
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves only because they don't know what they're missing.
punkman1: my biggest gripe is that exact search is no longer very exact
ThickAsThieves: indeed, my wife is actually the one who reminds me of this
ThickAsThieves: she thinks google is too creepy and will create a small paradigm
mircea_popescu: all the fuckwitted jimothies out there are the results of the kitsch-wisdom created by google and wikipedia.
punkman1: Google is like the central planning office of the internet
mircea_popescu: a good chunk of the people listening to jesse james or w/e the mn govt's name was do however.
mircea_popescu: and the rest they get either from people who got all their info from google and failed to understand it
mircea_popescu: or from various panderers who are too stupid to pander intelligently or at least unstupidly
ThickAsThieves: yeah the same people that go "if this surch is so great, who so slowz!"
ThickAsThieves: sometimes my brain has no idea what my fingers are doing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
chipug: that paper towel thing was fucking great way to wake up, thanks lol
chipug: Duffer1: the 'ipo kid' gif from mircea
Duffer1: ah the internets, restart comp, meanwhile the world changes
ThickAsThieves: i can't even read the Neo thread anymore without using the PR account, I have so many people ignored
Duffer1: "Max Keiser @maxkeiser 28s.@DogecoinCharity Nobody has created more BTC millionaires than @KeiserReport I hope you weren't left behind."
mircea_popescu: he always loves being reminded i'm still wearing his anal ring.
chipug: lol just how often do you get asked if it's you on the horse mircea_popescu?!
mircea_popescu: funny how this shit works, too, after april he took a six months break
PiratByran: Well, I was going to purchase something for my friends birthday using bitcoin.
Duffer1: i'll stay out of that one MP :P
mircea_popescu: chipug it is. not too often, more often mpoe-pr gets asked if she's a guy.
PiratByran: And because of various circumstances, I had to use a convoluted method of buying bitcoins.
ozbot: Twitter / maxkeiser: .@DogecoinCharity Nobody has ...
chipug: why will no one believe we're not lying about being girls?
nubbins`: PiratByran, many methods of buying bitcoins are convoluted
PiratByran: Doing my math wrong with fees, I came up 51 U.S. cents (.0006 btc) short.
nubbins`: chipug: because most people are lying about it
PiratByran: I am a beggar. I will not pretend to be above that right now :P. I fucked up, and it would be very helpful for someone to donate 51 cents to me.
nubbins`: PiratByran: if you're asking for a handout, PFO
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: pfo
chipug: i've seen her dp on btctalk, she's a bonny lassy, she mustve gotten same hassle, why i took pic off
mircea_popescu: dude, i'm not giving you whatever dust because that'll result in a bunch of other idiots trying to do the same.
PiratByran: okay, no love here. sorry for the bother
PiratByran: yeah, Ive been to third world contries I know that argument haha, its cool makes sense
PiratByran: just sucks having to wait quite some time for 51 cents :(
nubbins`: i love my wife, doesn't mean i give her a nickel every time she does math wrong
mircea_popescu: it's a fact, after openbsd we kept getting dudes with stuff
chipug: 51 cents?! wtf im like 2 months behind on rent and won't beg.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, this is why people don't give
Duffer1: ya there was also a noticeable uptick in #bitcoin-assets participation after that as well MP
ThickAsThieves: yeah the openbsd donation did bring some nice new blood
chipug: i take it 51 cents are also not worth waiting for
nubbins`: well if he'd thought ahead, he would have bought a bit extra.
nubbins`: "whoops, the exchange rate changed slightly"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` tbh, it's shitty implementation on the pp's part
chetty: 9 killed as firefighters battle a blaze that destroyed Argentine banking archives
chetty: looks like a good start on that deadweasel
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: And since we're talking of ...
mircea_popescu: if anyone cares to rt, i'm sure it'll do a lot for an old man's happiness.
Duffer1: man i just watched fight club last night
Duffer1: maybe some argentinians saw it too :P
ozbot: Twitter / TheRealAltcoin: @maxkeiser No. Altcoin is. ...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00307997 = 0.308 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: of the whole 1bn people online i was chosen as the one who needs a little help on the topic.
ThickAsThieves: stop searching "Who is the fairest mentor of them all" then
mircea_popescu: whoa. seems i accidentally found a way to get past twitter's 140 character limit
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: And since we're talking of ...
ThickAsThieves: nice, now just make a hover.com and do it as a service
mircea_popescu: then get VCs to finance me and spend the rest of my life eating airline food and conference rubber ducks
mircea_popescu: logo could be one of those mechanical vaginal pears they had cca 1600
☟︎ deadweasel: i'm soryr, can I get a link on "mechanical vaginal pears circa 1660"? i'm at work.
mircea_popescu: (that's really for uteral forced expansion, which is way more painful)_
Duffer1: wow the engraving, they put a lot of effort and care into that
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 the artist wasn't paid so well, but he took solace in the notion his handywork will be embossed on generations of boxes.
mircea_popescu: you know, sort-of like the hiring pitch for webdevs today
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 65 @ 0.00306 = 0.1989 BTC [-]
deadweasel: lovely, next time i need my anus dilated, I'll pick up a set.
ThickAsThieves: a forum poster criticized my post, I retorted, and he conceded
ozbot: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It
deadweasel: that front middle kitty is veryapprehensive. middle middle kitty gives no fucks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 0.66666485 BTC to 695 shares, 95923 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1448 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.119 = 0.357 BTC [+]
punkman1: "time lapse video of sample maintained at -40 C. 20 shots per hour."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 799 @ 0.00012794 = 0.1022 BTC [+] {4}
punkman1: mircea_popescu: will the Cardano be lead-free or anything?
mircea_popescu: i know it'll be gold plated, but i doubt it'll be lead free
Duffer1: pff it's not green? /dealbreaker
punkman1: wouldn't want any tin whiskers
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform srsly, all that molten solder you've been breathing / spreading aroud the kitchen
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 468 @ 0.00083998 = 0.3931 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.12113333 = 0.3634 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.129 = 0.903 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.55110013 = 1.1022 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 82 @ 0.00551447 = 0.4522 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.550002 = 2.75 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.13 = 0.52 BTC [+]
punkman1: hmm so tin whiskers do indeed have to do with this "tin pest" reaction
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.12400001 = 0.248 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Tin Whiskers Are Real and Complex - Tutorial - Maxim
the20year1: RentalStarter will be live for purchase on havelock Friday
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.135 = 0.27 BTC [+]
nubbins`: my beautiful copy of the codex seraphinianus arrived today
nubbins`: it even quelled my rage at this client we're dealing with
nubbins`: who would rather fly 6.25% organic cotton tank tops in from the exact opposite end of the north american continent
nubbins`: than use non-organic tanks from the next province over
nubbins`: "is this logo good enough quality?" 28kb png
nubbins`: because she runs a yoga studio
nubbins`: and because most people, given the choice between BEING "eco-friendly" and APPEARING "eco-friendly", will choose the latter
nubbins`: seriously, i could sew a one-inch strip of organic cotton onto the bottom of a regular tank top for the same effect.
mircea_popescu: do you know the per-km-pound impact of transporting vs the per pound impact of manufacturing nongreen ?
punkman1: so it only contains 6.25% organic cotton?
nubbins`: 6.25% organic cotton and 6.25% recycled polyester
nubbins`: the rest is just regular cotton/poly
ThickAsThieves: yeah cuz wholly organic would ruin yoga tudios profit margin
nubbins`: oh, did i mention these are OVER DOUBLE THE COST, too?
nubbins`: punkman1: for some reason, you can't buy 100% organic cotton tank tops.
nubbins`: cotton's cotton, it's usually pre-shrunk anyway
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.53520272 = 16.0561 BTC [-] {11}
nubbins`: seriously, $6 for non-organic cotton and $15 for 6.25% organic
nubbins`: "WE'LL GO WITH THE ECO FRIENDLY ONES"
nubbins`: "HERE'S A 200PX LOGO THAT I WANT PRINTED EIGHT INCHES WIDE"
chipug: honestly, fuck going outside. think i'll give that a miss from now on
ThickAsThieves: incidentally i did few t-shirt orders for clients, but the last one was a yoga studio
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 21 @ 0.51610665 = 10.8382 BTC [-] {8}
nubbins`: i'm surprised they didn't ask for bamboo tanks
nubbins`: (which, incidentally, is eco-unfriendly
mircea_popescu: nubbins` clearly the tee but not tank is a conspiraci of the feminist dykes to make life difficult for the sluts.
nubbins`: did they realize that 10 at a time was the least cost-effective method?
nubbins`: none because they can't afford one
the20year1: i see them all the time, with gore/lieberman stickers on them
nubbins`: funny story, our first hooters is opening up this year
the20year1: And when I ask them what they think about the amount of pollutants created to make the NiMh for the battery, they look like a deer in headlights
nubbins`: i want to get a set of those stick-man family stickers for back windows
nubbins`: but instead of me, pascale, and a cat
nubbins`: i want like 30 girls surrounding a single cat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 52 @ 0.00540087 = 0.2808 BTC [-] {4}
ThickAsThieves: probly 1 man surrounded by 2 women would be funny enough
ozbot: xkcd: Family Decals
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.1231 = 0.2462 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1389 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: pretty much the state of current worldwide communication
pankkake: pLambert: people think I'm a horrible person when I state money as my number one reason to not have children. but… it's true
pLambert: pankkake: funny, rich people view children as a liability, poor people view children as an asset
nubbins`: "maybe if i take an extremely long rigid beam and swing it around my head, the far end will exceed the speed of light"
nubbins`: pLambert: "manufactured happiness" :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00540009 = 1.08 BTC [-] {6}
pLambert: maybe we could get a perpetual motion machine to apply torque to accelerate the beam?
ozbot: Dan Gilbert: The surprising science of happiness | Video on TED.com
mircea_popescu: pLambert the view happens to be correct. the per-capita investment for poor man's children to replace poor man is negative. the per capita investment for rich man's children to replace rich man is enormous, and exponential.
mircea_popescu: this not even taking into account the big problem, which is, the required minimal capacity of the child to absorb investment
pLambert: could I, as a person in a rich society, just choose to spend little on my children and expect them to contribute?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.0054 = 0.54 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but from a game theoretic perspective, consider you've rolled an 3 point average character in a 1-20 stats game.
mircea_popescu: compare with rolling a pure 20 stat char. do you EVER re-roll that ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.0054 = 0.27 BTC [-] {3}
antephialtic: sounds very Rawlsian. Pick the game you want to play based on the odds before you roll
mircea_popescu: you personally can do anything you please, and so can anyone else. but on aggregate people will play the game correctly.
benkay`: babe, on getting a new credit card: "why is this so commmplicated"
benkay`: me: "because its not bitcoing"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.13888889 = 0.2778 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
benkay`: business partner on discovering our banking partners wants 5 dollars for every physical check: "why is this so stupid? why do banks suck so much?"
benkay`: me: "because its not bitcoin"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00093363 = 21.2868 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.53987998 = 1.0798 BTC [+]
nubbins`: friend, paying for an item with cash at the store: "why is this so easy?"
nubbins`: me: "because it's not bitcoin"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.53999332 = 1.62 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves as usual, they do not know what the words they're saying mean.
nubbins`: pascale just referred to the part of the toilet where all the lid hinges are as "the choda"
pankkake: paying cash is hard for me, I can't do mental calculus
nubbins`: eyes widen: "where's my change"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
pankkake: if they think scamming me is worth me not coming if I discover it… so be it
mircea_popescu: i never actually bother doing the math untill i see they're cheating me
nubbins`: eyes narrow: "sorry, here's some more"
nubbins`: i watched a friend overpay for an item by ~$45 in colombia because he mixed up "five" and "fifty"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
nubbins`: "that vendor was really friendly"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.0054 = 0.216 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.13888889 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] [PAID] 32.54126220 BTC to 695 shares, 4682196 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11110004 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 41 @ 0.10312682 = 4.2282 BTC [-] {9}
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: i was reading an article the other day saying that rates here in canada will start rising this year or next
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0906781 = 0.272 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: rates everywhere will start to raise next year since 2008.
mircea_popescu: problem is... no. canada economy can't support rates over 5% , and won't. possibly ever in the history of canada.
ThickAsThieves: in FL there are so many half-finished neighborhood developments
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11109999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 67 @ 0.00306 = 0.205 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: once things pick up theyll finish them, keeping the market down
Dimsler__: half of the suburbs in america are going to become farms
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.20001 = 0.4 BTC [-]
Dimsler__: suburbia is completely unnatural city management and planning
Dimsler__: it was a concept devised by the anglo-saxon to push the catholic and jew out of the city cores in the early 1900s
mircea_popescu: minimal changes can turn us suburbia into what europe is like.
Dimsler__: because they were losing voting power
Dimsler__: man have you ever been to america?
Dimsler__: the population density makes it improbable
Dimsler__: in a north american city most peopel live 20km+ from the downtown center
mircea_popescu: i thought we were discussing the infrastructure not the population.
mircea_popescu: in europe most people live 20km+ from the downtowncenter too.
Dimsler__: while in europ 15km IS another city
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.19376446 = 0.9688 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 177 @ 0.00307222 = 0.5438 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: well see., the fact that they call it "another city" is irrelevant
mircea_popescu: you can call about 45 "othercities" in greater boston area
Dimsler__: the population displacement is massive
nubbins`: toronto used to be what, five cities?
mircea_popescu: in fact, la is > size of slovenia. to the point i was making jokes about the TOWN of slovenia.
Dimsler__: toronto in the 1900s had a sign up in the core saying they didn't sell realestate to jews or fags
nubbins`: happening right now with edmonton, calgary
Dimsler__: so they where forced into urban sprawl
Dimsler__: the problem with that is it creates inefficiencies in infrastructure
mircea_popescu: i think your particular preoccupation with a political slant makes the discussion intractable to you.
Dimsler__: where an individal cannot move around without consume a fuck load of natural resources
pLambert: Where I live, a small town in the US, everybody lives within about 3 km of the downtown
Dimsler__: sure i don't believe in nation states
Dimsler__: assume every little suburb became its own little city
Dimsler__: there is no manufacturing, jobs are a 50-60km commute away
mircea_popescu: pLambert we're not even talking about flyover us, cause obviously that doesn't exist for the op :D
Dimsler__: who the fuck is funding the fuel here?
Dimsler__: north america was built on cheap gasoline
mircea_popescu: i have teams working for me totalling well over 100 people
Dimsler__: the internet? wtf are you talking about
mircea_popescu: and srsly, i'd be surprised if the average distance between pairs is under 3k miles
Dimsler__: the internet is a den of theives pornographers and fraudsters
Dimsler__: there is no "money" to be made on the internet
☟︎ Dimsler__: the logical conclusion is going to be an exodus from suburbia
nubbins`: the average joe works minimum wage
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.19376446 = 0.3875 BTC [-]
Dimsler__: average white man US population is 44
mircea_popescu: the suburbia is getting (for a minimal cost) refurbished and that's that.
Dimsler__: the next place for older americans is next to a funeral home or a cemetary
Dimsler__: the average joe isn't going to just starve
pLambert: my parents live in suburban Detroit, I have noticed the area around them is becoming denser, over time the US cities will change to be more like small cities instead of one giant city
nubbins`: me: "what was the interest rate on your mortgage?"
Dimsler__: pLambert, oh yeah? with what manufacturing?
nubbins`: dad: "7.25% locked in for 35 years. a real bargain at the time, as rates soared to 18% at one point"
mircea_popescu: Dimsler__ poor people without resources or abilities do not cause shit storms.
nubbins`: imagine, 18% interest on a mortgage
pLambert: what about manufacturing? Detroit has factories spread throughout all the suburbs
mircea_popescu: livermore34 you've not really done your reading re that shitfest.
Dimsler__: 1988-1990 had mortgages rates up to 16%
Dimsler__: mircea_popescu, man reference yourself hurricane katrina
Dimsler__: and even the national guard couldn't stop looting niggers
nubbins`: "even" the national guard, hey?
mircea_popescu: seriously, you got some stuff going on that's preventing you from thinking.
nubbins`: "even a bunch of bums who train one weekend a month couldn't keep an entire city under control"
Dimsler__: mircea_popescu, you have no idea bout how evil and arrogant the anglo-saxon actually is
mircea_popescu: Dimsler__ probably because i'm even more evil and arrogant.
ThickAsThieves: wow i go make some tea and come back some prime idiocy
ThickAsThieves: there's no money to be mad eon the internet guys, go home
Dimsler__: compounded interest and usury cannot exist in a economic money system
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12221 @ 0.0009345 = 11.4205 BTC [+]
Dimsler__: people are going to get internet jobs
punkman1: yeah clicking ads for satoshis all day
Dimsler__: and have little farms in there backyard
nubbins`: does it have to be in america tho? that place sucks
nubbins`: too many destitute and crazy people
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 64 @ 0.00305999 = 0.1958 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.111 BTC [-]
pLambert: maybe the US would be better if we got rid of the FedGov?
Dimsler__: you move to them you're going to get fucked up
nubbins`: so where's your eden, Dimsler__ ?
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: get a job and we'll let you stay here
nubbins`: i've got a mexican roommate who just got her work visa a while ago
nubbins`: you may need to be sponsored by an employer to get settled, not sure of the ins and outs
nubbins`: but canada welcomes immigrants with open arms
nubbins`: sounds great, can't pay ya tho
mircea_popescu: so i was just on the phone with this jewish chick i know, and she admitted that in israel the oreos are made out of dead anglosaxon babies.
nubbins`: the back deck needs shovelling
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, same thing in canada
nubbins`: and our cadbury chocolate is made from real jersey cow milk
nubbins`: i tell ya, it's the promised land
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves, she already has a job ;(
Dimsler__: well the jew takes advantage of the gentile
nubbins`: bitcoin removes the need for usury anyway
mircea_popescu: nubbins`> you may need to be sponsored by an employer to get settled, not sure of the ins and outs << drive over, hire a lawyer to start a companby, have the company hire you.
nubbins`: oh, i thought you were here to babble nonsense
Dimsler__: like you can with fractional reserve currency
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: nod, would probably work
Dimsler__: usury is self eliminating in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: people lend btc for profit all the time what are you talkin'; about.
Dimsler__: its not possible to compound interest on bitcoins
punkman1: you can definitely breed dimslers
Dimsler__: they will eventually lead to defaults
Dimsler__: due to bitcoins deflationary nature
Dimsler__: when default occur people will be more cautious about lending
nubbins`: one with its own sovereign? ;p
Dimsler__: especially not on a massive instrituionalized scale like we have now
mircea_popescu: nubbins` romania is not a bad one, for as long as that lasts.
nubbins`: phun phact, ugly betty is the ruler of our fair land
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.08603422 = 0.1721 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: you kinda need to pick some criteria and stick to them
nubbins`: it's like you're being willfully obtuse
Dimsler__: no US extradition or OECD compliance
mircea_popescu: im curious what his polonium defense is for free living in russia.
mircea_popescu: "sure, makea few billions and start buying english football clubs so maybe the kremlin won't off you"
Dimsler__: in romania you could be extradited straight to the US
mircea_popescu: or do you just presume we're interchangeable because irc nicks
Dimsler__: who cares about a bunch of muslim rats
mircea_popescu: obviously "civilisation" as she means it isn't necessarily a goal
Dimsler__: thats why they are turning into socialized slums
mircea_popescu: and it'd be a pretty boneheaded thing to do anyway. russia has had enough cultural revolutionary great leaps forward to last it five centuries.
Dimsler__: swtzerland doesn't hand out citizenship
Dimsler__: like you go to germany and like 1/4 is a filthy fucking turk
Dimsler__: like you can't buy a used car without the odometer rolled back
nubbins`: have to admit, i wonder where dimsler is from and what he looks like
Dimsler__: eastern european, western educated, lived everywhere
nubbins`: we covered all i needed to know already
Dimsler__: fact is, any country with liberal moral values and strict financials where usury is rampant
Dimsler__: and the people are going to be clueless and retarded
Dimsler__: with a bad case of stockholm syndrome
nubbins`: as opposed to russia where everything is great
Dimsler__: lol russia is not a fucking utopia
nubbins`: wait, i thought it was at the top of your list?
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
pLambert: What about Somalia, I thought they were supposed to be Utopia?
nubbins`: you can't even keep track of all the things you're mad at, can you?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
nubbins`: pLambert: loose financials, conservative values
nubbins`: by dimmy's criteria, somalia is the promised land
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1212 @ 0.00084009 = 1.0182 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: hell, there are hardly even any anglos or jews there!
pLambert: but there might be too many Muslims, I think Dimmy said those are bad too?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.5100751 = 2.0403 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: it's cool tho if you just stay inside
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: nah then transport is the problem
nubbins`: too bad you can't make money on the internet
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: it's almost like dimmy just runs the mouth without making any lucid points
nubbins`: if you're smart, i'm ok with being stupid
mircea_popescu: <pLambert> What about Somalia, I thought they were supposed to be Utopia? <<< they used to be but then kako got snowed in.
nubbins`: sullen pouty sooky-bum complaining about all he witnesses yet adding nothing of value to anyone or anything
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00084065 = 0.1261 BTC [+]
nubbins`: "you guys are seirously stupid" should be on the cover of the -assets book
nubbins`: do you even read those logs? ;(
nubbins`: choice quotes accompanied by ASCII porn
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.00084066 = 0.2522 BTC [+]
nubbins`: it kind of lost steam around the point that we realized there aren't any ASCII artists in here
ozbot: emacs-fu: drawing pictures
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 400 @ 0.00084075 = 0.3363 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: i can't be fucked to draw 50 ascii porn shots tho
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: could even make it a periodical
KRS-One: Improve your I.Q. with aQ.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00084077 = 0.1682 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: According to a 2013 report from the Treasury Inspector General’s office, the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS) issued nearly $4 billion in bogus tax refunds in 2012. The money largely was sent to people who stole Social Security numbers and other information on U.S. citizens, and then filed fraudulent tax returns on those individuals claiming a large refund but at a different address.
mircea_popescu: dude the fiat system works so well, i have no idea why all these people talk about bitcoin threats and whatnot
nubbins`: fuck this, i've got work to do!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04777776 = 0.2389 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 7 @ 0.08811427 = 0.6168 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 250 @ 0.000825 = 0.2063 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: eur => x.eur transfers working already?
jurov: not atm, just curious if you finished it
jurov: i don't see any interface.. one needs to ask you over email or irc?
davout: yes, it works but it isn't automated
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.09979999 = 0.1996 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "other, less meta altcoins" you mean "other, less alt metacoins" or "same, less coin metaalts" ?
ozbot: Seinfeld: Conrad, Connie or Con - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 800 @ 0.00301897 = 2.4152 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00532245 = 0.5322 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: wow that point re metaphysics is actually incredibly strong
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Four years of kinds mushed together aimless undergrad mixing drinking, philosophy, economics and math, then two years of philosophy grad school I quit, the two years of Library graduate school with an absofuckinglutely worthless degree, followed by discovering Oh, that bitcoin stuff is money.
BingoBoingo: Undergrad was indescriminate budget small liberal arts college (Socially Liberal Methodist variety). Philosophy was at Southern Illinois University Carbondale.
mircea_popescu: so i gather you're the poster child of the confused generation.
mircea_popescu: i think we packed enough meta in there to mine at least a dozen blocks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51997563 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: That one hasn't made it to Slashdot though. Maybe if someone else with a Slashot account submits it there around 07:00 UTC and then post the link to the submission here Altcoin can make Slashdot.
BingoBoingo: Speaking of Physics, Platos cave, old meme. Descartes Meditations Meme. Maimonides God can only be defined in the negative, meme. Aristotle's powerpoint on the word "is" though still generates papers.
mircea_popescu: that sweet day when a misspelling takes over a) the correct spelling ; b) wikipedia
mircea_popescu: i think in googleterms "misspelling" is actually less of a stretch than "obscure language word"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.51997563 = 1.04 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: In Google Terms loosing Hearn was a tragedy.
mircea_popescu: the narrative i heard is more along the lines of "oh, yet another one of the schmucks that spend some time here doing nothing to be able to put google on their cv"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Dunno if he did. Just seems the way he is wanting to ruin BTC fall inline with the ways Google wants to ruin TCP
BingoBoingo: Looks like I missed Dimsler__ but it seems I can recognize his ideal state: West Virginia.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well they also lack suburbs, have manufactering (of prisons), aren't really inside the US (Sentences to the prisons there are practically exile), and the people are awfully friendly if you don't try to get into any of their rackets.
mircea_popescu: pankkake after they get big enough and public enough, no force in the world can keep a corporation alligned to its long term interest.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So roughly 5 years after you cede the controlling interest, MPOE seats go down to tens of Satoshis?
Duffer1: mpoe bot will be self aware, buy it's freedom
pankkake: it won't be satoshis, it will be doges
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 183 @ 0.00084077 = 0.1539 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: pankkake: No one will remember Doge then. It will be HerpBuxx. Named after teen singer Derp Heiperp
pankkake: I came up with a new altcoin idea. FuckCoin. so you can give a FUCK
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.102245 = 0.2045 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: I have a cold storage address that starts as 1fuck (all lowercase) and lacking firstbits rights. Barely anything there. Doubt I'll awaken it until Million Dollar BTC (Much happier last chapter to that film than Million Dollar Baby).
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> pankkake: No one will remember Doge then. It will be HerpBuxx. Named after teen singer Derp Heiperp <<
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2166 @ 0.00011653 = 0.2524 BTC [-] {8}
BingoBoingo: I mean there isn't an AllYourBaseCoin or a BoxxyCoin, the reason is that time is unkind to memes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.1 = 0.3 BTC [-] {2}
Duffer1: still no substitute for audrey :(
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04520001 = 0.1808 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: pankkake: With maybe exception for Marie and Indira most on that list can get the ???
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 183 @ 0.0008408 = 0.1539 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1353 @ 0.00301 = 4.0725 BTC [-]
pankkake: at least the whites are at the top
dub: I think pankkake is on to something
dub: we beed a way to account for fucks given
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.000841 = 0.1682 BTC [+]
dub: a fuckchain secured by proof of fuck is appropriate
BingoBoingo: dub: Fetus sealed in lucite as proof of work?
pankkake: at least "orphaned block" will mean something
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 600 @ 0.00084188 = 0.5051 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 125 @ 0.00084199 = 0.1052 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 375 @ 0.00084199 = 0.3157 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.00529952 = 0.3498 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1969 @ 0.00301 = 5.9267 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Hrm... what will we call fractions of an ATC? How about "altoshi"?"
ThickAsThieves: if i could, i'd change the source to not have decimals
FabianB: calculating money should never be done with decimals
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: BTC values are all ints where 1 satoshi == 1
pankkake: decimals are fine, floats are not :)
ThickAsThieves: people are nuts if they think people will start talking in ubtc and mbtc and shit
pankkake: the French eventually switched to New Francs
pankkake: of course, it was in the other direction
BingoBoingo: This shit should be like BTC 101, All BTC values are ints built from 1 satoshi == 1. How to configure a miner shouldn't even exist until BTC 320.
Namworld: Would anyone be interested in loaning me 290 BTC @ 10% per year, with collateral?
ThickAsThieves: doesnt that kinda request come with more info usually?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0998 = 0.1996 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Namworld: Sure. Application consists of a video of you self performing a lung lobectomy and videotaping it. Poor form when applying sutures is grounds for denial.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.104 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.19376446 = 0.9688 BTC [-]
Namworld: I'll self-perform a lung lobectomy on YOU and videotape it. (You didn't say on "you performing on yourself" but "you self perform", which means I only have to perform it myself, not on myself)
BingoBoingo: Namworld: And we get back to meta. Isn't Altcoin awesome?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10449 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 122.22370491 / 105.56529382 / 105.38554991 (1211 shares, 27.25 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
davout: mircea_popescu: shouldn't the oix displayed be divided by the lot size?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10449 BTC [+]
FabianB: looks like stable price period will continue
Namworld: Well loaning BTC has definitly gotten impossible.
BingoBoingo: I wonder what GangnamCoin would be trading at today if it was released last year?
davout: it takes only sales into account
davout: the bot bought the puts yesterday
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10449 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51997563 = 2.0799 BTC [+]
Namworld: Please inquire, assuming anyone has the capital at all.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1045 BTC [+]
davout: ThickAsThieves: i guess taking into account purchases by the market maker bot mixes the bot's opinion into the OIX, which doesn't seem to be desired
ozbot: Twitter / BBoingo: @etploshay @CathyReisenwitz ...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12450 @ 0.00093513 = 11.6424 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1095 BTC [+]
ozbot: Twitter / Search - #whoisneo
davout: the jimmothy thread converted to .gif ?
davout: you're making me want to watch videos of these crazy japanese dudes doing irl video fx
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0452 = 0.2712 BTC [-] {2}
davout: fuck, this makes zero sense
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
ozbot: NBC: All Visitors to Sochi Olympics Immediately Hacked | The Weekly Standard
jurov: which? hotel pillows?
davout: jurov: sounds like a headline the onion would make
mircea_popescu: "They test the system in the report -- and are, as one might expect, immediately hacked the moment the test computer connects with the Russian network."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00011311 = 0.1131 BTC [-] {4}
deadweasel: send one media team, them be hacked for free streaming olympics!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20389 @ 0.00093076 = 18.9773 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51997563 = 2.0799 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [-]
ozbot: Mt.Gox Withdrawals - Coinsight.org
ThickAsThieves: "Update: The charts below have temporarily gone flat. That's not a bug -- I'm still getting fresh data."
ThickAsThieves: "The Mt.Gox IRC support channel tells me this flatness is a result of their hot wallet currently being empty. Most users who try to withdraw now get an "invalid address" error, meaning the withdrawal attempt fails before a transaction is created that can get stuck."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.1937 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.109 = 0.436 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1099 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.51997563 = 2.5999 BTC [+]
jurov: as i said, they were inspired by bitfunder/weexchange
jurov: includein the very error message
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00518006 = 2.59 BTC [+] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 44 @ 0.00518002 = 0.2279 BTC [-]
pLambert: So MtGox is out of money now? Who uses them still?
mircea_popescu: pLambert anyone who missed all those warnings since april ?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves srsly, if mtgox closes this month those puts will likely hurt.
mircea_popescu: every 80 bux in the price is like a million dollars due to all the magnificent leverage of options.
☟︎ pLambert: people keep seeing "I can't get my money out of MtGox", but they think the problem is just going to go away and fix itself?
ThickAsThieves: mircea maybe we need to send you back to the forum to learn from MPOE-PR
benkay: i am currently hammering this point home in the portland bitcoin channel.
benkay: <benkay> evaluation criteria: management teams, past performance
benkay: <benkay> the gox mgmt team has a history of incompetence
benkay: <benkay> the gox operation as a history of completely fucking it up
benkay: <benkay> and also yes, i put a huge risk premium on anything having to do with
benkay: btc. anyone with whom i'm going to put btc on deposit must have a
benkay: completely stellar and unsmirched record.
benkay: <benkay> coins will drift out of wallets operated by people who do not adhere
pLambert: so does mtgox not have any bitcoins, or do they just not have any in their hot wallet?
BingoBoingo: Is there an Ohio BTC channel? I need to remind them that they live in a bubbling shitpit and their rivers are flamable.
benkay: second question of the day: how long does it take them to move weight into their hot wallet?
BingoBoingo: pLambert: They never had enough. Not since 2010 by my count.
benkay: third question of the day: can they survive a bank run?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51997563 = 2.0799 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: benkay: They've already died in fiat bankruns. Dunno how BTC bank runs can make gox more dead.
punkman: when did they start running fractional reserve anyway?
pLambert: bank run? if there is no bitcoin they just stop allowing withdrawals
BingoBoingo: punkman: They went fractional in 2010 after their first hack.
ThickAsThieves: well let's be absurd about it: Current Avg Withdrawal * Current Stuck Transactions = 41662.5btc
mircea_popescu: punkman it's unclear but it was announced in april 2013.
pLambert: and how many millions were seized by the US through dwolla?
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves whassat ? <<< to learn how to hold onto your bitcoins
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves srsly, if mtgox closes this month those puts will likely hurt.
punkman: guess when they lost millions to Dwolla might have been a good time
mircea_popescu: punkman the dwolla thing sunk tradehill, but mtgox was not seriously affected then.
mircea_popescu: in fact i still suspect the dwolla thing was a backroom deal between the two to strangle competition.
ThickAsThieves: you mean if gox goes to shit by not allowing bitcoin exits, i mean by not allowing fiat exits
davout: mircea_popescu: if mtgox goes down you think btc goes down too?
pLambert: I think the mtgoox has shrunk enough that if they close it will not destroy the exchange rate
mircea_popescu: davout even if it only goes down a little through mtgox being taken out of the basket.
pLambert: and people have been pricing in the expected collapse of mtgox for almost a year now
mircea_popescu: pLambert this is more of a nominalist thing than anything. bitcoin's long term prospects w/o mtgox are way better than with it.
ThickAsThieves: I read the $5m were seized from Gox related to silk road
mircea_popescu: in fact, the destruction of the original scumfest (the people gorupped around blf, bitcoinica, mtgox, the foundation) is the best thing that can happen for btc.
pLambert: mircea_popescu: if mtgox had suddenly shut down when they had 90% of the market the price would tank, now the price might slip a bit but not much
mircea_popescu: they keep trying comebacks, but they aren't getting anywhere with them. meanwhile they bleed marketshare on good days, and they get taken out wholesale now and again.
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Those GOx seizures were pre-TSR bust
punkman: they don't even make the top 5 in volume most days
davout: from the wiki in 2015: "victim of its own success mtgox will went back to trading magic the gathering cards in summer 2014"
ThickAsThieves: i swear i read somewhere that SR was actually part of it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.1099 = 0.3297 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51997563 BTC [+]
ozbot: Petition-LETTER to regulator Ben Lawsky of NY "The World is Watching on Bitcoin"
gribble: Current Blocks: 284354 | Current Difficulty: 2.6214044530646152E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 286271 | Next Difficulty In: 1917 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 9 hours, 51 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2828879503.75 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.91465
mircea_popescu: yeah, probably the head of the boss of whatever mob family paid for his position would work better.
ozbot: New Survey: 79% Of Consumers Would Never Consider Using Alternative Currency Like Bitcoin (NASDAQ:TS
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.109 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: im sorry i don't have a handy link to the 1905 study asking the population of manchester if they'd ever fly across the atlantic in a plane.
assbot: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.C095T] 100 @ 0.02383907 = 2.3839 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.10918 = 0.5459 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.11 = 0.33 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 1061 @ 0.001773 = 1.8812 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.11 = 0.55 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.11 = 0.88 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.09966666 = 0.299 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.105 = 1.05 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2070 @ 0.000121 = 0.2505 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.0001205 = 0.3615 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 930 @ 0.00012 = 0.1116 BTC [-]
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 908.79667, Best ask: 909.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.20333, Last trade: 905.0, 24 hour volume: 4942.50335387, 24 hour low: 900.0, 24 hour high: 939.93, 24 hour vwap: 917.68982
mircea_popescu: one doesn't preclude the other and now you've jinxed it haven't you
ozbot: EFF Challenges New Jersey Subpoena Issued to MIT Student Bitcoin Developers | Electronic Frontier Fo
jurov: meanwhile in slovenia, bitstamp goes overboard with doxing
jurov: i heard compalints they have very creepy questions
jurov: and want to reverify documents
mircea_popescu: someone should just cut the gordian knot already and do SiPexchange.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.19376446 = 0.9688 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: they send you a pen, you film yourself fucking the pen and send the thing over
BingoBoingo: I'm telling you gox could say Gox BTC == 10^8 Gox USD tomorrow, because all is play money
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.19376446 = 0.5813 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: But in December, the New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs issued a subpoena to Rubin, requesting he turn over Tidbit's past and current source code, as well as other documents and agreements with any third parties. It also issued 27 interrogatories -- formal written questions -- requesting additional documents and ordering Rubin to turn over information like the names and identities of all Bitcoin wallet addresses a
mircea_popescu: ssociated with Tidbit, a list of all websites running Tidbit's code and the name of anybody whose computer mined for Bitcoins through the use of Tidbit, although Tidbit's code was not configured to mine for Bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: dude srsly ? how is the us legal system still a thing ?
mircea_popescu: the only reasonable answer to this sort of crap being "get fucked"
mircea_popescu: what business sends over its book just because someone wants to see it ?!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.19376446 = 0.3875 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: so last night i was thinking of forking tails, and ripping out tor and filling it with i2p app goodness
herbijudlestoids: because right now the latest tails is one version behind on i2p
mircea_popescu: tho an actually secure replacement for the web would be a decent use of bitcoin resources.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 83 @ 0.00325 = 0.2698 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: not even compatible, mind you. pick port 90 and create a wholly and completely different thing.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: there was a guy very much like satoshi who came up with iip/i2p originally....very smart guy, i remember i used to hang on the #iip chatroom inside iip back when i was a kid
mircea_popescu: pretty secure crypto is like reasonably healthy whore.
herbijudlestoids: i view it as like...sort of like a 'actually secure replacement for the s/web/internet' ...kind of like a public VPN that anyone can piss in
mircea_popescu: nah, you want an adressing scheme where the routing of packets depends on the destination's identity.
mircea_popescu: you want an adressing scheme where the reading of packets depends on the destination's identity.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.19376446 = 1.9376 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51250021 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: makes all route nodes unable to filter traffic, plain and simple.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 390 @ 0.00304796 = 1.1887 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 87 @ 0.00328189 = 0.2855 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well, if i give you a list of gpg messages encrypted to a bunch of my friend's keys
mircea_popescu: you can't possibly deliver all those about apples, but keep all those about fish
mircea_popescu: i am not at all interested in keeping secret my identity.
mircea_popescu: i am strictly interested in keeping secret the messages passed back and forth.
mircea_popescu: tbh it seems to me all the enthusiasm of the darknet people is woefully misdirected.
mircea_popescu: and i think mixing together securitization of data and of metadata is an epic mistake.
mircea_popescu: except the kids doing stuff like onions, garlic and other vegetables.
herbijudlestoids: do you feel like i2p at least makes a reasonable tool for metadata securitization, to use your term?
mircea_popescu: someone they have in their wot should tell them this is prime rib of stupid. separate these.
mircea_popescu: don't use that term lol, it's a direct pastiche from romanian and in english it's a term of art with diff meaning.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea if it does or doesn't and really can't be arsed to find out, cause what do i care.
mircea_popescu: but i tell you... i am mp. i have always been mp. everyone else is fkghsgeiohgiurehg. to what gain and for what benefit ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1089 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it's just this stupid thing everyone does because everyone's doing.
herbijudlestoids: if i thought i could conduct the communicatoins i needed over OTR using jabber
herbijudlestoids: but there is certain communications that i simply dont want associated with my actual identity
FabianB_: what you're describing sounds like cjdns (encryption of the network, but i think not anonymity)
mircea_popescu: what, exactly ? so i feel like posting nudes one day. herpderp what, god forbid someone associates it ?
FabianB_: herbijudlestoids: coz you want the anonymity i guess
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: why do you seem to think OTR does not encrypt the conversations?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids otr makes exactly two guarantees : that only your intended recipient can read your next line, and that should someone obtain the plaintext of your communications they can't prove that it is in fact yours rather than theirs.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.00012001 = 0.36 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it doesn't make the gpg guarantee that old conversations can never be read by third parties.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.1089625 = 0.8717 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "Anyone can forge messages after a conversation to make them look like they came from you. However, during a conversation, your correspondent is assured the messages he sees are authentic and unmodified."
mircea_popescu: basically, otr guarantees stuff for during a conversation. not really for after it closes.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.1099 = 0.9891 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51250002 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: this is reflected in many implementations - you can generally find plaintext logs of old otr convos if you dig up your log dir.
mircea_popescu: i'm by no means saying otr is bad or anything. i use it extensively for that matter
herbijudlestoids: i find it confusing because you seem to imply the messages are not encrypted
herbijudlestoids: being able to forge additional messages post conversation really means nothing to my threat model
mircea_popescu: did you just tell me you're promising to pay 10 btc for a stuffed dollie five minutes ago ?
mircea_popescu: cause if you didn't i'd guess it's possible the forging aditional messages may mean something even for your threat model :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1089 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: err no, because youre talking about tying my identity to a key
herbijudlestoids: i got no issues with GPG, but most of the conversations where i care about the security of it, i dont want it tied to my identity if at all possible
mircea_popescu: now, the security provided by ;;ident is necessary for business. the security provided by otr is necessary for gossip
mircea_popescu: since i do more business than gossip... i'm not so impressed with onion and garlic and so on.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50550001 = 1.011 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: ignore the nomenclature, i just pasted the link to see if it met your requirements of passing traffic based on keys
mircea_popescu: yeah, i'm just codgery and will find random things to bitch about
herbijudlestoids: im used to the type i guess lol, spent some time with owsley in his old age, very codger
mircea_popescu: In I2P, tunnels are unidirectional. Each party builds two tunnels, one for outbound and one for inbound traffic. Therefore, four tunnels are required for a single round-trip message and reply.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.109 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: see, this is why i say it fails : the overhead imposed by all the sha(sha(sha(sha bs to keep metadata secret from downstream hops
mircea_popescu: just gpg the package and send it over. i definitely like fabian's cjdns much more
mircea_popescu: hey dub, what if all internet traffic henceforth needed 4 tunnels built up per connection ?
herbijudlestoids: the whole point is to use it for traffic that you dont want associated with your IP
mircea_popescu: the whole point of the bitcoin code was to prototype an idea, not to be used for srs.
herbijudlestoids: so youre saying? idiots will use i2p for uses other than its original use?
mircea_popescu: i'm saying that it is a design with massive overhead for dubious reasons.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.109 = 0.327 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu i want to send you a message. but i dont want anyone to know it was me that sent you the message
jurov: heh. last time you were completely fine with needing a middleman because both computers connected to "internet" are behind NAT
jurov: that's unnecessary ovehead, too
mircea_popescu: jurov not in the same sense, is it ? nat is unnecessary overhead in the sense shoes are unnecessary overhead.
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I have to say I underestimated you when you first arrived, but you are still only halfway to Bitcoin
BingoBoingo: Shit doesn't get interesting until signatures.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu lets just say if certain people found out it was me who sent you the message, they could turn up at my doorstep and coerce more messages from me
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids so fyck you then, why am i talking to you ?
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Black bag / Rubber Hose cryptoanalysis is more expensive than people imagine.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu well when i say you its the "example" you, not the actual mirpop you
herbijudlestoids: so for potentially any number of reasons. maybe we are organising a protest together
mircea_popescu: sure, the guardian may want to have a random info dead drop, and i guess they may even read it
mircea_popescu: tho it seems unlikely they would even read it, seeing how book publishers 20 years ago didn't read all the manuscripts they got
mircea_popescu: but if you imagine random joe q person is going to spend resources to go through messages that cost nothing to make up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 14 @ 0.109 = 1.526 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.19376446 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and can't be traced to a source... you're nuts, plainly stated.
mircea_popescu: think about what's likely to happen irl, when designing.
mircea_popescu: instead of starting from weird edge cases, which then result in insane implementations that protect things that in the end don't matter.
herbijudlestoids: but if youre willing to accept the idea that i might like to discuss things with someone and not have parties on the wire who can identify me conversating specifically with that person...
mircea_popescu: so the nsa knows i talked to a hooker. fuck them, i can post pics on trilema just as well.
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mircea_popescu: i don't need an entire networking protocol to do that, tho.