867 entries in 0.627s
mircea_popescu: cazalla nubbins` link above. border cracked
entropy gen.
nubbins`: "Sum-up : 73 tests performed. Cardano RNG : Failed 2, Weak 5, Passed 66. Radioactive decay : Failed 9, Weak 13, Passed 51. Now go take your current
entropy source, put it through diehard and see what happens. "
mircea_popescu: fun fact : you can acutally hand-load the
entropy pool.
assbot: Logged on 15-07-2014 20:23:09; Rassah: In our tests, it still had plenty of
entropy at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero
entropy around -20º. Maybe we should put warning stickers on these things saying "Caution - Chaotic System. Do not use in low
entropy environments above the Arctic or below the Antarctic circle, unless exposed to external sources of energy" :)
nubbins`: ^ packaged w/ mycelium
entropy thingy
funkenstein_: came with a free difficult to decipher t-shirt that says "
entropy this ease freedom"
funkenstein_: got my mycelium stuxnet
entropy in the mail yesterday
danielpbarron: i doubt 1) your
entropy generating abilities 2) your not telling a secret when a hot iron is inserted into your body abilities
mircea_popescu: "Extropy is a proposed opposing concept to
entropy. As
entropy decreases , signifying more order, so extropy would increase in the manner of negentropy."
thestringpuller: 10 years from now when phuctor starts detecting broken
entropy systems
ben_vulpes: there's something about working in lisp that seems to reduce the speed at which
entropy chews apart a webdev project.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` nah this won't work. the usb actually steals
entropy from pc neh ?
joecool: mircea_popescu: i was unaware of the
entropy issues on signing until after this was implemented, until then i had assumed it was only important to generate the keys themselves with sufficient
entropy mircea_popescu:
entropy could be more important for encryption than signing.
joecool: mircea_popescu: there are two major problems with this implementation that i see. both are problems the cardano solves, 1. the system knows it's a smartcard and malicious software could use it, and 2. weak
entropy generation for signing
mircea_popescu: "The reason for doing this is that we can better reason about the output of a CSPRNG; by contrast, it is difficult to reason about the output of the
entropy source." << gotta love the sweet innocence on display here tho.
jurov: The output of the conditioner is then fed into a cryptographically secure pseudo-random number generator (CSPRNG). The reason for doing this is that we can better reason about the output of a CSPRNG; by contrast, it is difficult to reason about the output of the
entropy source.
jurov: Most
entropy sources don't produce "good" random numbers. The source may, for example, produce ones only 25% of the time. This doesn't negate the value of the source. However, the "obvious" non-randomness must be eliminated; that is the task of the conditioner.
mircea_popescu: the less you figh
entropy while still doing your job, the longer you'll live.
mircea_popescu:
entropy is to be embraced. it's no surender when you manage to flow with it.
mircea_popescu: too many unsafe on weak
entropy systems. then again, whith a good
entropy source, 256 or 65536 could be the default.
kakobrekla: well its how the world works! even shit can hide from
entropy.
mircea_popescu: dude check out the poor
entropy in kbd mashing. who knew!
adlai: brains are definitely shitty
entropy sources
adlai: maybe my priorities are misplaced, but one huge problem I saw with the whole
entropy thingy is... the printer
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its
Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1y61MkH )
adlai: you must really love mycelium
entropy Adlai:
entropy cares how it's serialized
Adlai: frankly, my crypto knowledge is lacking to have anything meaningful to say on this issue, beyond "gpg keys can have an order of magnitude more
entropy than bitcoin pubkey hashes"
assbot: Simtec Electronics
Entropy Key: USB True Random Number Generator
decimation: I'm dubious that there is much real coordination of these things, more just random
entropy in various usg departments
bounce: anyway, so essentially anything you do causes
entropy by waste heat. eventually heat death of the universe. but where does the energy to heat up come from?
Naphex: CheckDavid: you get more
entropy from a generator
Naphex: this is how
entropy use from /dev/random looks like on a SSL gateway (reasonable amount of connections/handshakes)
Naphex: revo ~ # cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
Naphex: which gives you the amount of available
entropy bytes
Naphex: on linux kernels you have the value exported through procfs /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
CheckDavid: I'm not sure how that
entropy is cached or generated.
Naphex: so if you're running openssl it shouldn't go down below 200 bytes of available
entropy CheckDavid: There's not enough
entropy in the regular sensors of a computer?
adlai: "dumb"? doesn't this just mean you can treat it as providing less
entropy than the number of bits it spits out?
mircea_popescu: cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate
entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products? << not really, no. other than "we don't have a clue how it's done but this is sekoority and so being mysterious is the next best thing"
PeterL: cazella: maybe they are not making good
entropy and are embarrased to admit it?
cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate
entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products?
mircea_popescu: there HAVE been cases where bitcoin used shitty
entropy.
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its
Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
PinkPosixPXE: asciilifeform: For serious security, perhaps yes, but everything runs on hardware, it's just the software layer that interacts with how
entropy is derived from teh hardware wether it's something you plug in or something you run on a server
PinkPosixPXE: When the Mycelium
Entropy is inserted into the USB drive, hardware-based
entropy is harnessed to create a large, truly random, number. The random number is generated using a static RAM chip, which Holcomb, D.E.; Burleson, W.P.; and Fu. K. have proven is capable of generating “128-bit true random numbers.” This number is then used as the seed to generate a private key and corresponding Bitcoin
assbot: Mycelium Successfully Funds USB Bitcoin Wallet Device,
Entropy, With Indiegogo - CryptoCoinsNews
PinkPosixPXE: it uses /dev/urandom, it's not hardware driven, it just pulls
entropy through rng-tools software, rather than 'mouse input' or 'disk activity' etc.
PinkPosixPXE: Fixed my issue earlier today,
entropy isn't solely hardware dependant,
PinkPosixPXE: So we have to increase
entropy somehow. This can be done with rng-tools, a package to use a hardware true number generator (TRNG). Don't worry, you don't need any extra hardware, we will use /dev/urandom as our true number generator.
assbot: Helping The Random Number Generator To Gain Enough
Entropy With rng-tools (Debian Lenny) | HowtoForge - Linux Howtos and Tutorials
PinkPosixPXE: did it time out on generating a gpg key due to lack of
entropy?
BingoBoingo: because apparently real Macs don't generate
entropy PinkPosixPXE: BingoBoingo: I'd need more details, but essentially you can use rng-tools/rng to increase the
entropy on a server. How it would be implemented for your exact use, would require more discussion.
BingoBoingo: PinkPosixPXE: Know any way to seed an
entropy pool in NEtBSD on MacSE/30?
mircea_popescu: <decimation> indeed. The other day I was trying to find an etf or stock that didn't depend on 'bezzle' (ie usg fiat finance). I didn't succeed. << this is roughly equivalent to, "the other day, i tried to find a natural process going backwards in
entropy. i didn't succeed"
BingoBoingo: One can't exactly oversee
entropy in the same way one oversaw order on the plantations
bounce: "security by lack of
entropy" -- my, wouldn't that be useful
mircea_popescu: no, by way of 1 bit of trilema contsaining 1 bit of information and so no room for this
entropy cheez
jurov: trilema
entropy is 0 << means 1 bit of trilema text contains 0 bits of information?