assbot: a-ztrainingcentre.org - /
ben_vulpes: jurov: can you straighten the s3 bucket backing therealbitcoin.org out?
ben_vulpes: i'd almost rather stick it behind a webserver running on the same host as the mailman app.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've pushed an update to the site, but the byzantine serving mechanism isn't providing it for some reason.
ben_vulpes: the site i want to serve has links to /charter.html, /v0.5.3-gd05c03a.tar.gz and other stuff
assbot: From Left to Right (Sleva Napravo) - YouTube
ben_vulpes: ah yeah that must be why i thought you'd like it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32645 @ 0.00079727 = 26.0269 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: hey asciilifeform do a sapper a favor and start emailing your patches to btc-dev@therealbitcoin.org
ben_vulpes: .tar.gz, including patch and detached sig.
ben_vulpes: a description of contents should suffice.
ben_vulpes: at the moment it's not even relaying mail to me.
ben_vulpes: not as useful as it *will* be, granted.
ben_vulpes: but a vast improvement over your pooping patches into the noisestream here.
assbot: The BTC-dev October 2014 Archive by thread
ben_vulpes: <jurov> asciilifeform: mailman will display gpg clearsigned attachment inline if you rename it to .txt (and i don't ned to diddle code then)
assbot: The BTC-dev October 2014 Archive by date
assbot: The BTC-dev October 2014 Archive by thread
ben_vulpes: what, you want a custom mailman in 2 days?
ben_vulpes: returning to my original point, please email the set of your patches and sigs to benkay@gmail.com, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: (and anyone else interested in patching)
ben_vulpes: i'm waiting on turdatron for merges, as well.
ben_vulpes: logs are great, but this shit will benefit strongly from a mailman list record of actions and discussions.
ben_vulpes: so while i appreciate the slicing dicing and otherwise pureeing of warts...
ben_vulpes: if hopes were horses we'd all gallop to bsas.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00079151 = 3.2452 BTC [-]
assbot: Bitcoin Foundation: We Don’t Want Everyone Starting a Bitcoin Business
assbot: Deed kLuzx7GD | #bitcoin-assets deed registry
mats_cd03: interesting decision, keeping the name
punkman: ok so I'm pretty sure bot never validated signatures
undata: asciilifeform: news that stasi found their way back into power? I'll bite. News... how?
ben_vulpes: punkman: can you give that to me in raw format? i'm seeing ^M all over the place
punkman: ben_vulpes: what, you don't have utf?
assbot: Deed kLuzx7GD | #bitcoin-assets deed registry
mats_cd03: stasi list? sounds like a good name for the courts circus project.
punkman: so apparently I need to download everyone's key to bot pubring
punkman: perhaps obvious if not stupid
ben_vulpes: you should really grab fingerprints out of otc db and then import those keys.
ben_vulpes: how can you possibly verify a signature without the key?!
punkman: that's where the stupid kicked in
ben_vulpes: are you willing to share the source for deedbot?
punkman: yeah as soon as I rewrite this part
kakobrekla: assbot doesnt have any pub keys locally, just asks gribble
punkman: yeah but I gotta verify the deeds
bounce: compare and contrast ``Bitcoin Foundation: We Don3t Want Everyone Starting a Bitcoin Business'' with ``Open Letter to Bitcoin Businesses: Why I'm closing my accounts'' on the bitcoinfoundation.org forum
undata: bounce: read that earlier; that guy gets it.
bounce: he does, and it's where every single government to date is failing in their digitalistation efforts
cazalla: i bet this multisig shit turns into a customer service nightmare for coinbase
ben_vulpes: on the topic of "no more bitcoin businesses" the bitcoin foundation is finally capitulating and following in MPEx's footsteps.
ben_vulpes: punkman: fwiw, i get a bad sig out of that
nubbins`: i get btc address 12cKT5TpNzKMMD7gNAthMbtp1VaVQUebW1 out of it
ben_vulpes: punkman: without the deed title i get a good sig
nubbins`: like if you cut that line out?
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: how on earth do you get a btc addr out of it
nubbins`: ben_vulpes by running it through my deed verifier, natch
nubbins`: anyway, the DEED_TITLE line was added after the sig was generated
ben_vulpes: making a thing that can't be dumped into gpg and produce a clean sig?
nubbins`: nope. not heresy, just nonsense :D
nubbins`: i am unable to verify two of the 5 processed deeds: 6LTeLfd6Scf1sgq9qmAYCT51oqoNmGP4k9uBp9oZtwR1 and kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA
nubbins`: the other three verify just fine
nubbins`: for the deed contained in 6LTeLfd6Scf1sgq9qmAYCT51oqoNmGP4k9uBp9oZtwR1 i generate a deed id of 6zUpQ65f28U8e8AHYJ1nL7tcLgNxamJg37LJCo3rxksq
nubbins`: for the deed contained in kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA i generate a deed id of AUJMybt23x4ddt8xUV1NVMj6M5fuQrqzdp1PrTZDTe5Q
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: logs are great, but this shit will benefit strongly from a mailman list record of actions and discussions. << word.
mircea_popescu: assbot: Bitcoin Foundation: We Don’t Want Everyone Starting a Bitcoin Business << lmao these fucking idiots.
mircea_popescu: "oh i know, let's go for double whammy! that'll teach us!"
nubbins`: punkman: the 4 pending deeds all verify as well
mircea_popescu: punkman: so apparently I need to download everyone's key to bot pubring <<< how else.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: i am unable to verify two of the 5 processed deeds: <<< software never fails eh stan ? if it worked once it always works right ? :DF
punkman: nubbins`: problem with 6LTeLfd6Scf1sgq9qmAYCT51oqoNmGP4 is the escaped html in the <pre> you are grabbing
nubbins`: gpg: BAD signature from "Hannah Wiggins (hanbot) <han.bot@gmail.com>"
nubbins`: i apologize if this seems obtuse
nubbins`: i can't copy/paste the deeds because of line endings
nubbins`: and i can't fetch via curl because the website has escaped all the html chars inside the deeds
punkman: you can get the raw bundle
mircea_popescu: punkman you know htmlizing chars is horribru practice.
punkman: mircea_popescu: but it has html in deed
nubbins`: punkman where can i grab that?
punkman: even if not actual html, html chars could break page, must be escaped
nubbins`: is the directory, e.g. /17/ always the first 2 chars of addr?
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure the idea is to sign the txt not the html
nubbins`: so to verify deed X, i need to first generate address Y from it, in order to grab the raw bundle
ben_vulpes: punkman: i'm not seeing the part where you shell out to gpg in there
nubbins`: are the raw deeds published, or just the raw bundles?
assbot: Studies find fast traders get data from SEC seconds early: WSJ| Reuters
ben_vulpes: edgar has been tuned to deliver to certain IPs before others?
punkman: ben_vulpes: yeah just threw that together to check bundle key/address
punkman: gpg.recv_keys() is refusing to work :(
ben_vulpes: have people dump their keys in themselves
ben_vulpes: capture keyid, barf if they're not in l2
ben_vulpes: then check again on deed submission and barf if they're still not in l2
assbot: Jian Ghomeshi: 8 women accuse former CBC host of violence, sexual abuse or harassment | Toronto Star
bounce: therefore she must be fake
mircea_popescu: remember all the fame-seeking ditzy bitches trying to claim assange raped them too ?
mircea_popescu: same deal with strauss-kahn, and with berlusconi, and generally, what's in a late claim.
mats_cd03: maybe he orchestrated this himself so he could score 55mn CAD
mats_cd03: like... whats his face... owner of the basketball team with a negress woman
undata: “Big Ears Teddy shouldn’t see this.” << oh man, my sides
xiando: I live in .se where two women claimed assange "raped" them, one of them said "yes we had sex and I did that of my own free will but he said he used a condom but didn't so it was rape"
undata: xiando: I read that in the Assange case, the women didn't even want to press the case, but the prosecutor kept at it anyway.
undata: Sweden sounds like a socialist hellhole nanny state.
nubbins`: you guys watch the new season?
xiando: undata: and the original procecutor refused to take the case but a totally corrupt and known criminal feminist procutor named "Marianne Ny" insisted on taking up the case
dub: lets not forget those two women worked for the CIA
undata: dub: he was stupid to trust them
undata: he should've known intellgence agencies would be after him.
undata: sorry guys, the war was going great, then the other side sent pussy.
assbot: Multisig Vault By Coinbase | Qntra.net
cazalla: coblee herp derp store your bitcoin with coinbase cause you face the same risk from hackers doing it yourself anyway
undata: cazalla: do I recall correctly that they're using one of two?
mircea_popescu: <undata> Sweden sounds like a socialist hellhole nanny state. << that's because it is.
undata: right, the third is some passphrase encrypted key
mircea_popescu: <dub> lets not forget those two women worked for the CIA << srsly, this works ?
nubbins`: node.js deed verifier, now without pesky curl script
assbot: [JavaScript] checkdeed.js - Pastebin.com
nubbins`: takes full or partial (min 8 chars) deed id as argument
xiando: undata: Name 1 other country where the Police can legally stop you for no reason (other than that you went outside) and take a blood sample by force
xiando: So Sweden isn't the only one? Interesting
mircea_popescu: well the mongolian police will use their fists, but anyway :D
assbot: ClubOrlov: Putin to Western elites: Play-time is over
mircea_popescu: the "what utility is the sun to us" line seems cribbed.
mircea_popescu: they're pretty awful at reporting anything of substance.
mircea_popescu: also, this is by no means the first or the most mommentuous "?speaking directly to the public"
mircea_popescu: Whether or not a new world order of any sort is to be built is not just Russia's decision, but it is a decision that will not be made without Russia. << this is false incidentally.
mircea_popescu: we are making it, right here, and it specifically excludes "russia" in the sense of "putin"
mircea_popescu: anyway, orlov's putin reads like mp. which i guess is a good thing for all those involved.
BingoBoingo: Ebama could spead a lot of Obola with a fat stash of BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56254 @ 0.00079415 = 44.6741 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36250 @ 0.00079557 = 28.8394 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26227 @ 0.00079577 = 20.8707 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: hah microsoft's got a wristband product
mircea_popescu: so this dingy old laptop is converting two movies and playing a third
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform looks forward to the possibility of the coprophagiac zoos of western eu waking up to the fact that what turned them into such was - nato. << at least the warsaw pact countries figured it out.
ben_vulpes: lol can you hear the movie over the things fans?
mircea_popescu: i'd be much suprised if ibm actually MADE anything, even a decade ago.
undata: IBM still does the US "support"
undata: I had to get the screen replaced on this one under warranty
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12618 @ 0.00079832 = 10.0732 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: undata: I had to get the screen replaced on this one under warranty << My 4 yo Thinkpad will probably be getting its third fan soon.
undata: BingoBoingo: I almost wrecked this one's fan coding in the sand by the columbia
undata: but I was able to clean it
BingoBoingo: I take this one out to the garage to smoke cigarettes
undata: cigs are the natural enemy of computer fans
undata: beer meanwhile, keyboards
BingoBoingo: Why would I spill the precious? Also not much of a beer person. Prefer my drink closer in composition to what would be used to clean it anyways
BingoBoingo: It's been a few days since my fan made the angry bees noise.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: I'm having trouble finding an MPOE-PR post using something Buffet wrote in relation to mining. How capital expenditure is made in textiles etc.
assbot: Carders Cashing Out Into Bitcoin/Cash Via Coinbase & Others | Qntra.net
cazalla: thestringpuller, he got circumcised
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51929 @ 0.0007939 = 41.2264 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller so look straight in buffett's letters.
assbot: ASICMINER vs. Cado.AvalonB3
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10532 @ 0.00079743 = 8.3985 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15297 @ 0.00080241 = 12.2745 BTC [+]
bounce: so, is there any data anywhere of the efficacy and efficiency of KYC and AML reg implementations?
undata: bounce: seems like a question for a finance industry lawyer
undata: I'm sure they're highly effective at creating a target for identity theft.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45300 @ 0.00080311 = 36.3809 BTC [+] {2}
bounce: the stated purpose might be a good start
bounce: then you tally the side effecets and perhaps you can make a nice little table with false and true positives and negatives perhaps
bounce: those civil forfeitures for people "structuring" their deposits so their bank has less paperwork to do is clearly an effect but not, as far as I know anyway, a publicly stated purpose of the reporting rules
RagnarDanneskjol: the 'stated purpose could only be trolling for unauthorized activity. it would be the same as efficiency/efficancy of any other surveillance - its much better than nothing but not as good as they'd like. there would simply be all negatives for one party, all positives for the other
bounce: that sounds like a load of rationalisation bs.
RagnarDanneskjol: hmm, I actually couldn't comprehend how to gauge the proficiency of kyc/aml, so was trying to help you clarify for me
bounce: then look at what they're supposed to do, like look at the language used to introduce the regs.
bounce: "combat money laundering" -- what is money laundering and (leaving aside for the moment why it would need combating) how exactly do you discern when something is money laundering or not.
bounce: if there's no sure-fire way then perhaps the whole idea of combating needs to be scrapped. if that isn't the case, you can look at what effects the regs have and tally incidents they have an influence on, discerning "this was money laundering" and "this wasn't", tally separately
bounce: that at least gives you an idea of its visible effects, which isn't the whole picture but at least is a start
RagnarDanneskjol: the definition for ML is fairly straight forward - like an arrow, it either hits a target or doesnt depending on archer's accuracy. what you're talking about there is the proficiency of individual arbiters weighing decisions to execute warrants.. I'd guess their accuracy varies rather widely
bounce: warrants? what do you mean, warrants?
bounce: that's much too narrow. people getting their accounts shut down because too much bother is also an effect of these same regulations.
RagnarDanneskjol: essentially unrelated to aml I believe. account closure without legal action is just business discretion/risk mgmt. Of course regs preempt cautionary' corporate policies if thats what you mean. back to the original question, its all positive for regulators/prosecutors, all negative for account holders. virus is possibly a good analogy- its all warm, positive, and welcoming for the vi
adlai: > mark karpeles busy working on new software codenamed 'midas'
adlai: > SEC using new market analysis tool... codenamed 'midas'
adlai: "The system, akin to an X-ray machine for the stock market" Here we see the useless metaphor in its natural habitat, a NYtimes article
adlai: looks like without this, the SEC wasn't taking into account unexecuted offers, which is kinda laughable if they're trying to detect/prevent "manipulation"
bounce: <RagnarDanneskjol> essentially unrelated to aml I believe. << no, it is not. you don't get to exclude actions taken by non-government actors because of the rules because they're not government actors.
assbot: Putin says Washington fails to respect the interests of other countries | Fox News
assbot: 1000 Quotes in BPY - YouTube
thickasthieves: <+cazalla> i bet this multisig shit turns into a customer service nightmare for coinbase ---- and they explicitly only do online customer service, no phone
bounce: ie, "help yourselves, dear clients"
bounce logged in with $site, nuked cookies somewhere along the way, now can't log in because "csrf token invalid, try again", no matter what trick I throw at it. support is in a forum that requires logging in through the same form of course.
assbot: Tim Cook: "I'm Proud to be Gay" - Businessweek
bounce: down because fear it'll be down
adlai: thus the modern stock market enables us to calculate the free-market price of a fuck, commonly only approximated through dark pools in back alleys
thickasthieves: So if the SEC is enabling some traders to get early info, will the SEC fine the SEC?
adlai: exchanges are enabling that and the SEC is two decades late to the party
assbot: Putin at Valdai - World Order: New Rules or a Game without Rules (FULL VIDEO) - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00079979 = 14.9561 BTC [-]
adlai: in soviet russia, wot get inside of YOU!
nubbins`: <undata> beer meanwhile, keyboards <<< my last laptop drank a beer and died. current one drank a coffee and is still kicking
punkman: I've always thought the drainholes under keyboard in Lenovo machines were a great idea, haven't had a chance to test it though
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00079979 = 8.4938 BTC [-]
nubbins`: speaking of testing, any sign of punkbot 8)
punkman: maybe today, gotta remove the stupid
punkman: but gpg libs are not helping
punkman: python-gnupg, I couldn't get recv_keys to work, tried fork of library, I can recv_keys but it burps on some unicode chars returned by keyserver and doesn't confirm key was imported.
nubbins`: oh hey, nanotube contributed to that particular method
punkman: yeah I'm not even sure what version nanotube is using
nubbins`: oh and what OS is this running on?
nubbins`: yeah, paste yr code, let's take a peek
nubbins`: ;;google release early, release often
assbot: isislovecruft/python-gnupg · GitHub
assbot: UnicodeDecodeError · Issue #49 · isislovecruft/python-gnupg · GitHub
nubbins`: ^ was just gonna paste that :D
assbot: Comparing master...fix/49-unicode-decode-on-readline · isislovecruft/python-gnupg · GitHub
punkman: yeah I love that I'm running "develop" versions for all major pieces (supybot, electrum)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00079979 = 5.7185 BTC [-]
punkman is gonna need some tobacco, runs out
jurov: punkman, are you aware there are gnupg and python-gnupg as not fully compatible forks of each other?
jurov: i discovered that while doing mepxagent.
punkman: jurov: yeah and there's a dozen other similar libraries too
punkman: so pack of tobacco from corner store, 4-5eur from 17gr, bag of tobacco from guy I know, 20eur for 1kg.
punkman: if only he knew how to cure it properly
kakobrekla: properly curated costs even less than 20eur/kg in bosnia
punkman: kakobrekla: teach them how to bitcoin plz
kakobrekla: i dont know anyone younger than 40 there
nubbins`: i thought about growing tobacco
nubbins`: it's like having a part-time job where you get paid to not show up
bounce doesn't smoke but isn't getting paid for the not-smoking either
bounce: where did I go wrong?!?
punkman: clearly you should start smoking
nubbins`: do you know how much money i've "earned" since quitting?!?!
thickasthieves: pankkake says hello: "That’s not an “update”, please avoid associating your nonsense with my script. Your “solution” provides no easy maintenance and comes with greater hardware requirements (as with anything pre-0.8), but I suppose you guys are pretty much clueless on this. Also conveniently forgetting that 0.9 introduced the possibility of disabling the wallet functionality
assbot: Enough of What “Most People Think,” Tell Me What You Think or STFU | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
nubbins`: ;;calc ((2*365+366+13)*10)/[ticker --last]
punkman: well maybe you bought a pack for 10k btc long ago
jurov: <asciilifeform> [20141030 00:13] that thing's running on what, a commodore64? << seeing kako's problems, I put a CDN in outright in front of it
jurov: obv, that means caching delays
nubbins`: thickasthieves why so butthurt anyway
thickasthieves: " Whether one is a US-based exchange or not doesn't decide whether one needs to register. The question is whether a company has clients in the US or not. If so, they are subject to regulations of that jurisdiction."
thickasthieves: can a US exchange run unregulated by the US if it only serves non-US customers?
jurov: and if it does not register, then what?
punkman: thickasthieves: wasn't kraken doing that for a while?
jurov: iirc it's already established MPEx server everyone, what are they gonna do about it?
RagnarDanneskjol: thickasthieves - thats what coinsetter did their first couple of years for that reason
assbot: Cybernetic arm goes crazy on canadian TV show - Imgur
nubbins`: he's all "this is highly irregular"
ben_vulpes: punkman: i've run afoul of the python gnupg wrapper
ben_vulpes: i ultimately went the route of shelling out to gpg directly and writing my own little lib that did exactly what i needed and nothing else
ben_vulpes: thickasthieves: where's that pankkake comment from?
TomServo: "Russia favors a conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order, but is not opposed to investigating and discussing such innovations, to see if introducing any of them might be justified." << seems like an odd point to wedge in amongst the rest.
punkman: ben_vulpes: which wrapper were you using?
assbot: MIT Media Lab Gets a Transforming Logo, Courtesy of Pentagram | WIRED
punkman: just when I was thinking hey this is pretty good
thickasthieves: it's nearly impossible to get a client to accept stuff like this thi
thickasthieves: his deal was, i'll make you a logo, and you'll take it as is
assbot: SJW ? You mean SEW ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
nubbins`: thickasthieves this is how pink eye prefers to work for design jobs
nubbins`: it's way, way, way less painful for everyone involved
TomServo: mircea_popescu: It just struck me as not fitting with the rest of the message. What innovations might he be referring to?
mircea_popescu: well the way i read it it's not referring to anything, merely refusing to commit to anything.
thickasthieves: he does almost sound like he's gonna pitch Bitcoin for a minute
TomServo: hehe, that's kind of where I was going
TomServo: The other points seem much more specific, and I would think there is at least something in mind when referring to innovations into the social order.
thickasthieves: it's a well written speech in that its general enough any individual can map it onto his own perspectives
assbot: Majestic-12 : DSearch : MJ12bot
mircea_popescu: a distributed replacement for google might be a pretty damned good idea
assbot: Enough of What “Most People Think,” Tell Me What You Think or STFU | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
thickasthieves: the local rap group in my hometwon was called 12Majestik
jurov: any non-manual algo will get spammed
assbot: YaCy - The Peer to Peer Search Engine: Home
thickasthieves: my search idea could combine with a distributed one, have all ranking factors be open and weightable by the user
jurov: mircea_popescu you forgot the wot ratings must be examined manually to be useful?
mircea_popescu: jurov which is why this is so useful : try and do it for search, high volume and low risk, see if anything useful can be done algorithmically.
jurov: punkman: i ended up calling gpg --recv-key directly
jurov: even then, it did some failures like "key rejected by input filter"
jurov: dunno any lib can handle that
punkman: jurov, I think I could publish a pubring that gets updated a couple times a day
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves i suspect this is like the "myspace, music industry killer" idea a decade ago. yeah, it'd work, if people didn't suck. people do suck, and as a result, myspace dies.
jurov: punkman: incl. removals/revocations?
thickasthieves: from google being the curator, to newsearch being the db with sort
punkman: I am also considering making the bot spit out expiry/revocations in a diff channel
mircea_popescu: it'd certainly be useful for linux-y types, me and google divorced when it took out the operands.
thickasthieves: and would be smart to move harder in the curation direction in the face of such a service
mircea_popescu: and google is the shittiest curator imaginable. people in commie romania thought they had it bad, but this is pointedly worse.
thickasthieves: well thats why you use newsearch and lazy ignorants use goog
mircea_popescu: "oh, everything is on wikipedia" is not curation. why the fuck would i want google to return a wikipedia result in the first place, what, as if i don't know they probably have a shitty article sort-of talking around topic x ?
punkman: thickasthieves: write down some ideas
thickasthieves: i think i do have a writeup started somewhere with examples, etc
thickasthieves: but i cant even manage getting someone to recompile altcoind for windows
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves the way people do. you write down the task, break it up, write down the parts, break them up, read up on the topics, implement, refine...
mircea_popescu: what have all these other schmucks been doing ever since this chan started ?
punkman: I want to make personal search engine that gets fed with my browsing history, bookmarks, local content (email, logs, etc)
thickasthieves: i also would like (and surely others would to) a cumalitive customizable chart for bitcoin exchanges
jurov: punkman KDE tried with akonadi... kinda works after years of prodding
punkman: thickasthieves: I got code that can fetch ticker/trade data from dozens of exchanges
jurov: such overarching systems are usable only for incredibly patient people like me
punkman: been wanting to put it into use
thickasthieves: when you search on android it digs into all kindsa shit
thickasthieves: punkman, are you capable of turning that into something that can output a custom file to feed into Metatrader or such?
thickasthieves: and capable of serving such a chart on a website like bitcoinwisdom?
punkman: that'd take some time, lots of javascripts
punkman: unless I can export from metatrader
thickasthieves: a live aggragate chart with customizable tickboxes for exchanges
punkman: yeah and maybe sockets people can subscribe to
bounce: you built that fetch code?
thickasthieves: this was partly within my ideas for Coinflow, before bitcoin play exchanges all died
mircea_popescu: that's the risk, you put the work in, "traders" love it, then it turns out the "traders" are 500 redditards all sunk to the hilt in bitfinex/bitjam/whatever
thickasthieves: if you establish the user base, then you can become the dominant index provider
thickasthieves: Coindesk seems on this path, but theyre bound to fuck it up
mircea_popescu: you won't become the dominant index provider because people who matter don't chart and people who chart don't matter.
mircea_popescu: you will become the reddit index provider, which is not how you feed that market. you don't make goof stuff for the consumers, you make cheap shitty stuff for them
mircea_popescu: everyone does want to know the price, but a speshal few know you wouldn't know anyway.
mircea_popescu: this being kinda why all the however many exchange feed centralizers went nowhere.
thickasthieves: should there not be someone who is trying hardest to discern the price?
mircea_popescu: putting most work into != trying hardest necessarily. besides, what's this hardest, taking exchange feeds ?
thickasthieves: maybe mapping otc in there, trying to pry info from people like coinbase or bitpay, i dunno
mircea_popescu: not to be a parade pisser, but there's problems lurking.
mircea_popescu: generally what everyone thinks is the thing to do is wrong, which is why the "never compete in saturated markets" advice's served me so well over the years.
mircea_popescu: maybe my needs are unrepresentative, but i find they're served equally well by any of the older providers. bitcoincharts, bitcoinity, whatevers.
thickasthieves: so if you are attempting to chart or even look at trends or volume alone, you relaly need the whole picture
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.0008034 = 16.55 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves do you understand that as dubious as charts are generally, which we won't rehash, at least generally there's the atomic market ?
mircea_popescu: whereas for all you know in bitcoin twelve whales get together in a secret chan somehwere and that's how the price moves ?
thickasthieves: i'm not commenting on whether its just a shared delusion
thickasthieves: and the more contexts you fractalize, the less they matter to the outside
thickasthieves: in the end we're all just floating muck, without context
mircea_popescu: you gonna get butthurt if i tell you your though process would drastically benefit from more rigor ?
mircea_popescu: somehow i've never noticed it before, but chicks in this country have positively gorgeous hair
xiando: It doesn't matter if you really are 12+ whales on some private IRC channel, you can't just set the price anyway.
thickasthieves: are you just saying, stop spouting bullshit and read more books?
assbot: In which noobs learn lessons and pay for the privilege pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: This is how much I rule (today) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves not at all. i mean something quite specific :
adlai: spouting bullshit is OK, as long as you curate it a bit better than just letting assbot dump it all in a text file
mircea_popescu: you say "hyper abstract". this is like in code, calling function X. compiler (me) goes wait, wut ? so you go "function X () { random banal shit; }"
mircea_popescu: now, it's entirely your privilege, as the human in this relationship, to define function x any way you please
mircea_popescu: but the particular definition you gave indicates to the compiler, were the compiler human, that a) you hadn't considered it before using it and b) as defined prolly doesn't serve you in any sense.
thickasthieves: as i knew i was about to explain something as i thought it, but i also knew it was a concept in my head from the past but which i have never articulated in words
bounce: something like abstract algebra. do math to numbers only forget about the numbers.
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves obviously i can appreciate thinking is a process, and one has to make sense of one's [intellectual] history, etc.
thickasthieves: in case you havent noticed i like to explore the space in between things, and question the extremes
mircea_popescu: it's a matter of methodology not of scope. the how, not the what.
thickasthieves: this often puts my in either a devils advocate position, or stranded
adlai: "write drunk, edit sober"
bounce: in this case I have no idea what you're on about
mircea_popescu: bounce just a little defensive, because not erryday gets to discuss his headpenis, and in public to boot!
thickasthieves: i was merely saying that this aggregate chart idea was for traders and thats ok
adlai: why not sell it to the SEC for when they want to regulate bitcoin markets
bounce had been playing with the idea of an aggregator. didn't get around to actually do it though.
bounce: it's a good place to sit, business model-wise.
adlai: camwhores could probably use some quality analytics
mircea_popescu: because i never noticed as many flaws an dproblems in a woman as when sitting with a coupla camhos watching her.
thickasthieves: funny story, an ex client, against my advice, moved to a notoriously bad (cheap) web guy,
thickasthieves: yesterday their domain expired and now points to pornhub
thickasthieves: probly better than worrying about when Meals on Wheels will be by
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i have a metal hand press, and a pile of oranges. so im going to make myself some freshly squeezed orange juice and douse it in the local cognac.
ben_vulpes: 30 btc and a testing framework for 0.5.3
adlai: made with cheap potato vodka
mircea_popescu: well no, but there's airplanes where you ppls live neh ?
bounce: local airport is closed. nice long tarmac strip though, so send over the bitcoin jet.
adlai: see now that is real fertile territory for innovation
adlai: analyze jack&coke, engineer enzymes targeting its contents, put them in yeast and feast
mircea_popescu: bounce well 3d printing is mostly toothpaste sculpture, except with plastic.
mircea_popescu: (am i the only one into toothpaste art around the age of 5 or so ?)
adlai: well i did notice at one point that squeezing my asshole while pooping could theoretically sculpt the resulting turd, kinda like a lathe
adlai: then i began drinking coffee and my turds are now denser than depleted uranium
adlai: "chemical printing" gets tossed around as the next step in automated manufacturing
adlai: bounce: so you could theoretically "chemically print" the composition of any drink, medicine, poison, drug, explosive, etc
bounce: squirt acid on pcbs with an inkjet and skip the whole masking thing?
ben_vulpes: also, your typical us "food product" fab.
mircea_popescu: adlai and what it means is, "even cheaper furniture and finishings for the us mortgage mouse"
adlai: well, semi fab is using chemicals to manufacture a physical design
mircea_popescu: 'll just be for cheap toys, nightstand knobs that sorta thing.
adlai: "chemical printing" (which doesn't exist yet, afaik) is about using sufficiently advanced technology to manufacture specific chemicals
bounce: on-demand printing of otherwise unobtanium and expensivium parts is kinda useful though
adlai: well, maybe for DNA base pairs
ben_vulpes: but i been out of the atoms biz for a while now.
bounce: dna printing. grow result in petri dish. cook. serve as dinner.
adlai: but not for arbitrary compounds
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves i had a bet with a younger, entrepreneur friend, which went that if automatic "make clone of your own penis" and "test yourself for all diseases" kits appear at the same time, the former'll oversell the latter.
ben_vulpes: spider silk componds in goat bladders?
bounce: somehow I think I'll prefer food the old fashioned way
adlai: now we're talking!
ben_vulpes: it's all a matter of demand, the tooling is out there.
ben_vulpes: a fact conveniently overlooked by populist health preachers.
bounce: lots of tools out there
adlai: well what would you do with the extra cock
bounce: we'd be back with the whole eugenics problem, only with a different face on it
adlai: it needs to get stitched in somewhere
adlai: you can't just print a cock and start waving it around like a dildo
thickasthieves: you can have a strap-on of ur own dick to do both holes
adlai: this is more a challenge of neuroscience and plastic surgery
jurov: he'll be fuming half day from that
adlai: i'm already pissed from the lack of hyperlinked endnotes
bounce: pissed? bit early, no.
mats_cd03: until now, i had never considered DPing a woman with a 3D print of my own dong
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 whatever you do, don't do the bj kiss. it'll ruin "traditional" life for you.
jurov: soon the replicas will be able to transmit feelings
mats_cd03: i try to discretely offer a glass of water
mats_cd03: not that i don't enjoy the taste of my own dong, just... i don't
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 no, not that one. the one where you kiss a girl while the other sucks you off.
adlai: "Linux's spread... reinvents the flat tire" nice
mats_cd03: doing two at once seems like a lot of work
mircea_popescu: bounce: so, is there any data anywhere of the efficacy and efficiency of KYC and AML reg implementations? << nope.
thickasthieves: well nothing to review, it's not a service to the people, it's a service to the gov
thickasthieves: the internet makes crime easier, and US just wants to make sure they are the ones having it easy
mircea_popescu: but i like how bounce's legal mind works. seriously, contrary to all the pretense of the entrenched "profession" to the contrary, being a lawyer is EXACTLY being a coder, nothing different at all, let alone substantially different is taught in law school. the ONLY difference is that the hardware is very limited and the api incredibly old and terribly buggy.
mircea_popescu: course "loophole" doesn't have the same sound to it as "bug" does.
mircea_popescu: anyway, anyone willing to work with an incredibly intricately documented ad-hoc algol is more than welcome to be a lawyer. all it takes really.
mircea_popescu: adlai: "The system, akin to an X-ray machine for the stock market" Here we see the useless metaphor in its natural habitat, a NYtimes article << lol, quite. at least salon and the rest of the sew crowd make their metaphores pointedly wrong, rather than useless.
mircea_popescu: "The U.S. and the European Union have imposed several rounds of crippling sanctions against Moscow" << lolmkay.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah. writing for your audience, worst fucking idea ever.
mircea_popescu: also this is why english is the international language whereas russian is not : english allows two parties to reach a "mutual conclusion" which they can both live with.
adlai: why doesn't russian?
mircea_popescu: russians : "The U.S. and the European Union have imposed several rounds of crippling sanctions against Moscow" ; nato : "The U.S. and the European Union have imposed several rounds of crippling sanctions against Moscow".
mircea_popescu: but in russian : США и Европейский союз ввели несколько раундов санкций против Москвы парализует себя. / США и Европейский союз ввели несколько раундов санкций сокрушительный Москву.
adlai: "US and European Union have introduced several rounds of sanctions against Moscow paralyze yourself"
adlai: google translate of : until /
adlai: best mistranslation I've seen recently was a cop booking a swiss friend for rear-ending another car in massachusets
adlai: swiss guy's license is all in Deutsch, natürlich, so our brilliant state trooper scribbles in huge block letters in the accident report: "DUTCH LICENSE NUMBER 123456"
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: So if the SEC is enabling some traders to get early info, will the SEC fine the SEC? << funny how that works eh.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 337.26, Best ask: 338.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.74000, Last trade: 338.0, 24 hour volume: 10893.91462845, 24 hour low: 332.99, 24 hour high: 344.22, 24 hour vwap: 338.382085275
assbot: Kellie Pickler : People.com
adlai: satoshi was a visionary artist, not an engineer
adlai: looking over his original code... i'm almost surprised he didn't write in pascal
assbot: Logged on 24-10-2014 20:23:36; mircea_popescu: nobody that knows how to use valgrind.
adlai: well odin probably does, and a handful of grunts handling the sweaty work
mircea_popescu: punkman: I've always thought the drainholes under keyboard in Lenovo machines were a great idea, haven't had a chance to test it though <<< this is the train of thought that ends up with keyboard rats.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, as you well know, easy to make small holes while writing c++. in fact, the best use of c++ might be irrigation systesm.
kakobrekla: calm down, not all holes are made for fucking.
adlai: this is not the attitude that put a robot on mars
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: want wot? fix python. << want food ? invent deer!
gernika: Is there a seminal discussion on deeds/deedbot I can read up on?
adlai tried making a python joke
xiando: only 170 btc from 20k short at BFX \o/
adlai: they broke import!?
adlai: xiando: is anybody correlating swap market moves with market sells?
thickasthieves: "Her charming babe-in-the-woods persona also contributed to her post-Idol success" lol
xiando: adlai: You see it clearly on bfxdata, like 2 hours ago there was a 1600 BTC trade where you clearly see both USD and BTC margin take spikes
xiando: most swap taken is either used directly or within hours
adlai: xiando: eyeballing correlations is nice, but it's just eyeballing... then again, this is just my kneejerk distrust of eyeballs rather than any concrete reason to suspect there's a problem with this approach
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2014 11:59:24; mircea_popescu: so based on mike_c's discussion last night, i think i have a very good addition to b-a kako. it'd go like this :
gernika: mircea_popescu great thanks
assbot: Logged on 11-08-2014 00:24:04; mircea_popescu: Jason the idea is to expand current bitcoin-assets functionality with a register of deeds.
xiando: adlai: I actually do not get what you mean or why you are wondering if there is a colleration, if you short sell 1000 BTC then you borrow 1000 BTC so obviously swaps increase when the sell happens.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's at least two holes still extant to this day, i thought i said at some point
thickasthieves: why does this whole deeds, b-a form, sending 1btc to urself, hash, thing make me think about colored coins?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10150 @ 0.0008034 = 8.1545 BTC [+]
thickasthieves: it essentially lets you attach a "hash" to a token and tx, which is just a hyperlink to stored data elsewhere i think
assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive
assbot: Announcing Colorcore: an open source wallet for Open Assets - Coinprism Blog
assbot: Jon Matonis Resigns As Bitcoin Foundation Executive Director
mircea_popescu: in the sense that braindamaged implementations of nothing in particular are similar to actually useful implementations on the same basis, then yes, all c code reminds one of all c code and deeds of colored coins
thickasthieves: was onlybringing it up in case their stuff can be repurposed to save time
mircea_popescu: punkman: yeah I love that I'm running "develop" versions for all major pieces (supybot, electrum) <<< real manhood.
thickasthieves: "Matonis has served as the head of the bitcoin industry's oldest trade organisation since July 2013"
mircea_popescu: we're here in the process of reimplementing the world because we don't trust one set of turdmeisters, you expect code will be reused from an even derpier set ?
mircea_popescu: <thickasthieves> oldest trade org <<< check it out, they're aware bitcoin foundation is going to destroy bitcoin scamfoundation.
mircea_popescu: punkman: so pack of tobacco from corner store, 4-5eur from 17gr, bag of tobacco from guy I know, 20eur for 1kg. << srsly, you're too useful to be smoking by the kg.
adlai: xiando: btc swaps go into short selling btcusd, but also margin longing ltcbtc, th1btc. some also get reserved and not used immediately
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves lol but i have 30+ year's experience at it!
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> why are we polishing turd again...? << only way there is.
adlai: xanthyos: another scenario: i place a margin bid. you market sell. usd swaps go up, but the market has dropped. does this show up in an eyeballing of the charts?
thickasthieves: adlai, most of the swaps are taken up by swap dealers, and more likely, bfx itself
adlai: sorry, both messages were for xiando
adlai: eyeballing is probably effective for reasonably accurate big picture view, especially in a situation like bfx, where most volume is in a single market
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: it's like having a part-time job where you get paid to not show up <<< you're like one step away from being a mobster don. which is what that job is.
adlai: but at some point i'd like to algorithmically snarf this data, and i wonder occasionally how exactly to correlate between all these feeds
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 13:20:00; thickasthieves: pankkake says hello: "That’s not an “update”, please avoid associating your nonsense with my script. Your “solution” provides no easy maintenance and comes with greater hardware requirements (as with anything pre-0.8), but I suppose you guys are pretty much clueless on this. Also conveniently forgetting that 0.9 introduced the possibility of disabling the wallet functionality
mircea_popescu: "It’s like talking to a wall. There’s no use arguing with a cult."
mircea_popescu: "i can't convince you people that 3 = 4 it's like talking to a wall you're a cult wah wah"
thickasthieves: “The scenario of deflation is not there, because indeed we don’t consider that deflation is going to happen,” said the ECB’s vice-president, Vitor Constancio, ECB
assbot: Guide To Setting Up A Remote Bitcoin Node For $20 Per Year | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 16:49:26; pete_dushenski: 0.9.3 is obviously dirt but how would one go about installing 0.6.x on a vps?
undata: what openssl version is the 0.5.3 fork being built against?
assbot: Neither arguing something stupidly nor arguing for something stupid gives one li - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: " Whether one is a US-based exchange or not doesn't decide whether one needs to register. The question is whether a company has clients in the US or not. If so, they are subject to regulations of that jurisdiction." << utter bullshit.
mircea_popescu: i will NOT register with anyone ever on the guise that they can't keep their cattle in line.
mircea_popescu: this is like pretending that ranchers must register with one another because the cattle strays on their land and eats their grass.
thickasthieves: granted, though i realize now the quote is missing a bit of context, I think he was more pointing out that you could operate in the US, outwardly
mircea_popescu: you don't likle us citizens betting on bitbet, put fucking dildos in their chairs.
mircea_popescu: they want the border open ? lube up and moan with the music.
mircea_popescu: the world is not a us subject. the us is a subject in this relationship. an incredibly cheeky one, to boot.
thickasthieves: would they let me run SR from here if i only sold to Russians?
mircea_popescu: this is so easier when y'all don't go fucking crazy with the keyboards!
thickasthieves: what happens if you apply this thought to S.nsa, it's safe only to sell encryption devices for btc from US, not to? nope...
thickasthieves: random thought, reading qntra this morning, i pictured 5 years in the future, where it was the craigslist of localized anarchonews
bounce: florida.qntra.net, where everything happens
xiando: mircea_popescu, if US laws apply in practice if you serve US citizens or not is basically a question of where you are, really. If you are in this country and the US tells the regime they want you then you're just picked up and put on a plane and maby, if you are very lucky, someone in the regime will bother to ask why they want you
xiando: It is like property rights locally, you are supposed to have them but you don't anymore
thickasthieves: underground railroad your way to me, i have an empty house atm ;)
thickasthieves: well you can train wherever you want, but you gotta make stops
mircea_popescu: <bounce> florida.qntra.net, where everything happens moar like, orangecounty.florida.qntra.net ?
assbot: The Legion of Decency: Sometimes The Dragon Wins
mircea_popescu: fucking execution squad for bikers, i tell you that right off.
thickasthieves: if you forget the email addy for an admin in Wordpress, how to password reset?
xiando: change it in the db if you have access to it
bounce: no execution squads for road users, thanks.
bounce doesn't really understand the animosity between bikes and cars, though. seems to be a north american thing.
mircea_popescu: bounce easy to explain : all preditors have an innate hatred of fast moving, light items ; preditors are better suited than rumminants for life on earth. as a result, people on bikes are in a position ot annyo people in cars, and people in cars are in a position to give them what for.
mircea_popescu: but the ruminants are really good at bleeting, and in the us currently that temporarily means something.,
mircea_popescu: so there you go. otherwise, the "animosity" is properly resolved with bikers paying the fuck attention and being humble and apologetic all the time to everyone.
xiando: thickasthieves: wp_users table ID 1
gernika: I once ran over a bicyclist. She then got a ticket.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42727 @ 0.00080284 = 34.3029 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: anyway, bikers in romania pissed me the fuck off. bikers here are actually pleasant,
mircea_popescu: except one time i nearly clobbered this purely retarded, english speaking middle aged woman.
mircea_popescu: "According to the forensic report, the vehicle never exceeded an AVERAGE speed of 34 Kph." << gotta love these forensic reports. the never exceeded average ? lol
mircea_popescu: scandalous, this. but they are standard in new england
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform important. the notion that all the lemmings drive... meh. not really so great.
xiando: could actually be true if the vehicle had a constant speed of 34 Kph (such likely)
bounce: that thing stinks quite a bit.
assbot: Death Row Inmate Asks For A Child As His Last Meal, Texas DOC Plan To
adlai tries not to watch the markets when he's not actively tinkering with scalpl
adlai: these are some nice dumps though
thickasthieves: someone posting 1000btc bids, someone filling them all at once
adlai: anything is possible when you have such a wild west of unregulation
assbot: Bitfinex Short vs Long Swaps
adlai: well, if you're waiting around to sell a slippy amount, and liquidity appears, you'll take that opportunity
kakobrekla: there is even less (leveraged?) bids on bfx than on stamp
kakobrekla: <adlai> anything is possible when you have such a wild west of unregulation < noone can claim to be bitcoin 'insider' . that doesnt hold true for regualted markets.
assbot: bitcoind retardation - Pastebin.com
adlai: dunno, maybe if we regulated bitcoin a little better, then we'd have proper insiders n stuff
ben_vulpes: forgive my valgrind/c naivte, but i'm assuming that indirectly lost refers to memory that cannot be freed?
xiando: (guy who bragged about having a 8k short position at BFX)
nubbins`: one guy says it started happening when he reverted from 0.6rc1 to 0.5.2
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you're moving at a pretty high velocity.
ben_vulpes: that story had a what - century long incubation period?
nubbins` paws blindly for a donation address
nubbins`: 1blablablalblbalbalba doesnt pass checksum
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00079937 = 22.5822 BTC [-] {2}
thickasthieves: xiando, yes it is DrewR, but it's more like 15k+ coins, and he took the walls down
thickasthieves: he could just as easily post the walls as Asks too, using margin
assbot: TradingView: Free Stock Charts and Forex Charts Online. | Awesome Screenshot
xiando: thickasthieves: total of 18k short and we are to believe 16k is his, eh?
xiando: while total net shorts were reduced 2k during those 1k trades?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the argument "no benefit, some risk"?
assbot: Matonis to Resign from Vessenes Bitcoin Foundation | Qntra.net
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm referring to mp's reasoning as to why functional turdatrons are not published
thickasthieves: xiando his 16k were bids, and he mentioned he ha slike 6k in shorts, of course we've no reason to believe him
xiando: oh sorry and thanks thickasthieves I only got that screenshot from some & not context
thickasthieves: someone needs to eat his lunch, i dont have that kinda swing though
assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i confess i'm one of the sinful looking for a golden middle way
mircea_popescu: not what i mean tho. incidentally : that's rms gnu. he lies when he says that's foss. it's not. it's a particular attempt at a middle way, with him as the "modest" hero.
mircea_popescu: you're in the position of the wooden plank that's straighter than a bridge crossbeam. yes, now.
thickasthieves: well i do have pm experience, itd be my only tool to tackle the job
mircea_popescu: then gunk starts piling up, and before you know it... you're praying nobody notioces.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 wut is that ? you mean like lint for iptables ?!
mats_cd03: i can't tell if we're on the same page. but yes.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 339.85, Best ask: 340.88, Bid-ask spread: 1.03000, Last trade: 340.88, 24 hour volume: 10786.32003782, 24 hour low: 332.99, 24 hour high: 343.45, 24 hour vwap: 337.615467196
assbot: bitcoind retardation - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves evil is a concept ulterior to mp and whales.
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:54:25; asciilifeform: the other thing is, i'm fairly certain this is not the end of the story:
thickasthieves: well subsititute evil for which ever word permits said action
mircea_popescu: 64,000 (112 direct, 63,888 indirect) bytes in 1 blocks are definitely lost in loss record 62 of 77 << this tho
mircea_popescu: how much of a buggy half implementation of a garbage collector is there in bitcoind ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, those 12 errors look like 6-10 different holes.
mircea_popescu: also, you can only use chocolate, provided it's ecologically sourced!
mircea_popescu: "that every man carries an endless, self-replenishing, delicious chocolate factory is simply a matter of perspective" ~ lenin.
joecool: i figure i'll ask, any of you guys ever built gnupg2 into an initramfs? attempting to use a smartcard for luks
joecool: hitting a wall with pinentry not drawing a pin dialog (using the curses form)... just bails out
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: does anyone know the cause of permanent blockchain wedging in 0.5.3 ? << i am pretty certain it's the bdb locks initialisation issue.
bounce: what's special about soviet chocolate?
mircea_popescu: bounce he's just in love with one version of "no artificial hydrogenated vegetable fat, not oversugared" chocolate, because grew up on it.
bounce: so... what is in there? cocoa powder, cocoa butter, some sugar?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bdb needs a set_lk_max_locks directive to function properly with larger blocks.
mircea_popescu: by default a DB_CONFIG file in bitcoin root fixes the problem.
mircea_popescu: bounce temperature treated, yes. like saying "iron, some carbon, some molybdenum" = sword.
mircea_popescu: i *think* the maximal lock count a block may possibly need is somewhere just south of 600k, but i don't have the shithandy.
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 how do you call an indian in indian btw ?
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't laugh, greeks conquered them too :D
mircea_popescu: 17 // How many times we expect transactions after the last checkpoint to
mircea_popescu: 18 // be slower. This number is a compromise, as it can't be accurate for
mircea_popescu: 19 // every system. When reindexing from a fast disk with a slow CPU, it
mircea_popescu: 20 // can be up to 20, while when downloading from a slow network with a
mircea_popescu: 21 // fast multicore CPU, it won't be much higher than 1.
mircea_popescu: static const double SIGCHECK_VERIFICATION_FACTOR = 5.0;
mircea_popescu: / Guess how far we are in the verification process at the given block index
mircea_popescu: 39 double GuessVerificationProgress(CBlockIndex *pindex, bool fSigchecks) {
bounce: from a hero to a girl in a few short log lines
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, "we" have nfi why 252450 would hang.
ben_vulpes: // What makes a good checkpoint block?
ben_vulpes: // + Is surrounded by blocks with reasonable timestamps
ben_vulpes: // (no blocks before with a timestamp after, none after with
bounce would starve a bit too soon to take that up, ATM. otherwise have the time.
ben_vulpes: let's see how this collection plate goes, turdmeisters
mircea_popescu: so they are going to feed the afrreddit hordes if oyu give them moneyz ?
mircea_popescu: punkman so nao i want to verify things, but i can't, because no bot and i dun recall what the website is ;/
nubbins`: perhaps i'll put it on the cover
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes okay, jurov appointed ? address published ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you'll note: not signed.
ben_vulpes: undata: yes i'm just so pleased to bite off this chunk of responsibility for no remuneration
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when I was a boy i actually bought an airplane (ride) for 100 bux.
ben_vulpes: at least this time nobody's asking me what color my trabamborghini will be, or offering me worthless options.
undata: ben_vulpes: glory sometimes requires loss-leading
undata: ben_vulpes: yes, acclaim among your peers never helps anything
mircea_popescu: anyway, those were the days. gasoline + 5 man crew for a day, 100 bux.
mircea_popescu: well, half a day. but they didn't fly wortha shit at night anyway.
mircea_popescu: cuz they somehow had bad experience with the german paratroopers
mats_cd03: us army is still fixated on parachutism, for no really obviously good reason
mircea_popescu: fwiw, the current us doctrine of "don't put the most valuable part of the plane in the most fragile part of the plane" is sound.
bounce: the infrastructure to make that happen isn't cheap and isn't that robust either
mats_cd03: although the 101 airborne was converted to an air mobility unit recently, so theres that.
mircea_popescu: if plane could fly w/o ground installations, captive pilot may make sense. as it is, pilot belongs with the airbase not with the plane.
mats_cd03: arguably, the allies won the war because of excellent maps and radios
bounce: patenting war to win the patent war
undata: ben_vulpes: oh and protecting your own bitwealth; how bout that one?
undata selfishly wants the stripped down daemon for his own experiments
ben_vulpes: ripping usg crud out of the thing is a recipe to endanger any coins i'd have if i were not eating ramen so that the dog might eat
undata: ben_vulpes: at least the dog would kill a guy for you; my girlfriend's cats would just watch
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> ripping usg crud out of the thing is a recipe to endanger any coins i'd have if i were not eating ramen so that the dog might eat << dude that's touching, srsly.
undata: asciilifeform: don't tell me how to live :D
nubbins`: ya down with cpp, yeah you know me
undata: asciilifeform: is there a new client mailling list yet?
nubbins`: he's busy generating a treasury address by hand
undata: ben_vulpes: wonderful; thanks!
ben_vulpes: why thread does not show the same as date and author is a mystery to me.
nubbins`: ah! finally got chickensoupd build
ben_vulpes: the notes on bdb lock size are hilarious
ben_vulpes: "just try a bunch of different numbers until you find one that works"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37450 @ 0.00080264 = 30.0589 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: adlai: bounce: so you could theoretically "chemically print" the composition of any drink, medicine, poison, drug, explosive, etc << Very hard problem when you want to print anything protein
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast
undata: in my case this will be where my VM is
BingoBoingo: thickasthieves: pankkake says .9 is where it's at << My 0.8.x node I run is rather low on memory consumption, runs with full txindex
BingoBoingo: I know. New ones exchange dying for a crawl during initial indexing instead.
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 18:08:51; asciilifeform: attn turdmasters:
undata: asciilifeform: "this" being code review?
undata: asciilifeform: perhaps the wealthier among us have reason to offer bounties
chetty: I would go after that sword if eulora wasn't in the way
BingoBoingo: Ah. asciilifeform So a solution is raising soldering irons to get weaponized bitcoind from pool ops
undata: asciilifeform: what's the point of not distributing it then?
undata: because I have an unanswered question.
BingoBoingo: undata: What is the use of releasing the chamber curve diagrams of an effective nuke?
assbot: Logged on 24-10-2014 20:24:45; mircea_popescu: maybe once it's over in the sense of, we're all drunk in the retirement home.
chetty: curiosity killed the cat
undata: it's a bit difficult to steer the direction of a decentralized network with no offering.
undata: BingoBoingo: justify the aptness of the metaphor first.
undata: if there's an existing stripped down client the deturdification process is a waste of time
BingoBoingo: undata: Alright. Spz you're a Jew in olden times coming onto the battlefield with your nifty bronze sword. Now the Assyrians emerge from the horizon, but instead of bronze they have Iron!
undata: BingoBoingo: that metaphor has no resemblance to what does and does not benefit the functioning of a decentralized network
undata: I'm not going to bother.
assbot: A dangerous idea - serialized delusions
undata: asciilifeform: yep I was around for that convo
undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects
undata: some kind of open process of producing source code
undata: asciilifeform: see: libressl
undata: everything is shit but the speaker
undata: reasoning by metaphor has its strengths and weaknesses
undata: receiving money isn't the only way to invest in your own goals
undata: I need a programmable, robust client for my own applications
BingoBoingo: undata: Well, avoiding starvation and the sword are obstacles on the road to goals.
undata: you don't have 5 hours a week?
undata: there's an absurd orthodoxy around here
undata: there's ample evidence in the market that one can reduce cost and increase quality by open sourcing the things not directly in your moneymaking pipeline
undata: I'm not going to argue the merits of open source
undata: you people are all on linux or bsd
BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> why am i even telling this, go run it << sir you are a gift to the logs
undata: asciilifeform: that is a problem of the artists and not painting
undata: asciilifeform: where's the source
BingoBoingo: <undata> asciilifeform: that is a problem of the artists and not painting << No, this is a problem of no one fucking reading and the world burning because the entire stacks sucks because unread. Worked until it didn't
undata: BingoBoingo: lets do nothing then
undata: life is too challenging
BingoBoingo: undata: No, you do things. You just have to understand the obstacles as you make your cue.
undata: how was the 0.5.3 choice made?
undata: reasoning by metaphor or an actual assessment?
undata: there are myriad bugfixes that will need to be backported
ben_vulpes: hashtag asciilifeform patch collection
ben_vulpes: hashtag asciilifeform patch collection october
undata: I didn't initiate this thing; ben_vulpes do you have a desired process?
ben_vulpes: grab those patches, review, add sig if you want to put your ass on the line.
BingoBoingo wonders if there is anyone with more projects on their public plate than alf...
undata: what are the standards for "this goes"
ben_vulpes: undata: we're currently blocked on a mailing list thinger that may or may not see the light of day anytime soon
ben_vulpes: i halfway think the gpg signature turdatron blocking merges and discussion needs to be nuked and implemented by some eager beaver later
undata: ben_vulpes: I'll just start a local git repo with stock 0.5.3, add your existing patches, and look into backporting a fix
undata: process to submit is patch with signature?
undata: alright. I'll take a look at it saturday.
ben_vulpes: if i don't have a thing going on on saturday we could even go so far as to pair
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: share physical space, look at code as a...
ben_vulpes: dark mirror images of each other in some aspects
undata: different enough to be enjoyable
BingoBoingo: lies ben_vulpes, you do service as a software
undata: roughly... flamethrower, bandaids, minimal socket API?
undata: that can be a later discussion
undata: but poking the thing is desirable
undata: asciilifeform: hear hear
undata: asciilifeform: oh come on, at least give it *two* weeks before utter failure
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform wants valground turd and...what is this 'delete blkindex'?
undata: asciilifeform: books fit in brains?
undata: good outer bound though.
mats_cd03: asciilifeform fears for his life, but won't flee to save it.
undata: disagreement is good for you
mats_cd03: a game of catching the falling knife?
undata: someone should write a book of #ba metaphors
thickasthieves: undata this is sorta started in the b-a wiki, which anyone with voice can add to probly
undata: I'll just grind out code and leave the speak to the pros
undata: asciilifeform: exercise to reader eh?
undata: the grinding out code was a general statement of what I value
undata: asciilifeform: were we not talking about the kelvin way of versioning code?
undata: the same value applies to communication.
undata: I can send you a disassembled rube goldberg machine every time I open my mouth
undata: and we can get nowhere
undata: or we can get to the point and get something done
assbot: The Next Chapter | The Bitcoin Foundation
PeterL: question: my scoopbot dumps links from posts into the chan, should I ask to have assbot ignore it or provide the title of each link?
assbot: Here's What the Mission Riots Looked Like After the Giants' Victory
bounce: so, the guy that's going to actively support unleashing lots of onerous gov't regulation on this bitcoin thing is now executive director of the bitcoin foundation
bounce: did I get that about right?
BingoBoingo: bounce: Well, executive director of the CoinLab Foundation for the promotion of scams and Redditurds
undata: "Fuck techies" << to the ovens with you
gernika: undata to the ovens with techies?
undata: ben_vulpes: where is db_cxx.h on OS X?
undata: ben_vulpes: statement behind the question is 95% of this build crap can go
ben_vulpes: take a look at the first patch on therealbitcoin.org
ben_vulpes: that has a manifest you'll find useful.
cazalla: my god this hag of a wife, god must be punishing by introducing her to me before bitcoin
ben_vulpes: lol popped one out and became intolerable?
chetty: Are they using 'wish' maps maybe?
undata: ben_vulpes: k so that linux-mingw makefile as starting point?
undata: that and unix survived. I was using the unix one
undata: bleh nvm, mingw is that gnu windows thing
undata: shouldn't that die too?
bounce: do you have berkeleydb installed and are you using gmake?
bounce: though might not need the latter, dunno.
undata: I do; gentoo's just got it in /usr/include/db4.8
bounce: thought you were doing an os x build
undata: bounce: neg, was not led by the patch name "chicken" to believe that that one cleaned up the project
undata: so I was deleting things
nubbins`: <undata> ben_vulpes: where is db_cxx.h on OS X? <<< brew install berkeley-db4
nubbins`: mine's in /usr/local/Cellar/berkeley-db4/4.8.30/include/
undata: nubbins`: what I meant to be asking is whether gentoo was weird by putting it in /usr/include/db4.8
undata: gentoo has this "slots" mechanism for having multiple versions of libraries
nubbins`: beats me. i've got a debian install here, it's in /usr/include
assbot: Why is the new iMac 5K instead of 4K? It’s all about the video, baby | Ars Technica
undata: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: muchas gracias; patched and built
ben_vulpes: client signed a no-deliverable, best effort contract with us and then made promises to their client executives.
PeterL: why would they do that?
ben_vulpes: maybe the next time i actually laugh at a scope/timeline combination in a meeting and the potential client still falls all over themselves to sign our no deliverable, best effort contract my internal warning flags should go up
PeterL: what is a "no deliverable best effort contract"?
undata: "look, your cat is likely to die during this life-saving procedure. sign here." ?
ben_vulpes: "we understand that you want these things. we will work on them in the agreed upon and prioritized order. you authorize unlimited budget in hopes that we can get it all done."
PeterL: so if you never get the first thing on the list done, then what happens?
PeterL: who do I talk to to not have to !up scoopbot?
jurov: dignork: you second message got discarded
jurov: not able to debug it right now (imbibed stuff)
jurov: will let you know lateer what was he problem
jurov: ;;gettrust assbot dignork
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Thank you for pointing me to the Folksom book. The practice drills are the best.
assbot: The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept
undata: "What they found instead was a confounding array of rules, structures, and systems imposed by Omidyar and other First Look managers on matters both trivial—which computer program to use to internally communicate, mandatory regular company-wide meetings, mandated use of a “responsibility assignment matrix” called a “RASCI,” popular in business-school circles for managing projects—as well as
undata: more substantive issues." << bunch of crying
assbot: Gmane -- Bitcoin P2P e cash paper
BingoBoingo: See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit.
undata: BingoBoingo: articles like this are hard; they're trying to integrate two sides of a debate, where likely neither party is being fair
undata: as for corporate organization, *some* mechanism for order is needed
undata: how else are you supposed to coordinate?
BingoBoingo: undata: Well, key part of getting to why it wants to be read one way is evaluating... What platform it lives on.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell PeterL first, second, third, umpteenth will get done. arbitrary items from bottom of list by time not communicated to dev team?
undata: BingoBoingo: yes of course
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wherever you're going, check for cpp gurlz. << none!
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: a good rng will aid the process. << srsly, how do you keep this dry ?
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No, I'm in one of the green ones in the middle
mircea_popescu: i wonder how would a site worked on that principle go. "ever day traffic is up, hire someone ; every day traffic is down, fire someone"
mircea_popescu: undata: mircea_popescu: ^ << nothing was said publicly on this topic.
mircea_popescu: undata: if there's an existing stripped down client the deturdification process is a waste of time <<< what are you, new ?
mircea_popescu: undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects <<< there is. you're watching it. just because leadership is not in your face doesn't necessarily mean leadership is absent and it's your time to shine. it may also mean leadership is extremely good at what it does.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: I thought this is why alf patch series was named chicken
mircea_popescu: dude incredible how much subtext i miss. and i do read the logs!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i don't remember, is edsel a car or a bad cheesecake brand ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Twas a Ford spinoff, focused on "affordable" cars
mircea_popescu: hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things.
dignork: jurov: I've figured webmail got my signed message scrambled with html?
bounce likes an absence of smoking and ashtrays better