mircea_popescu: davout: "you want to do some btc related accounting? well, fuck you, the decimals after the second are a $1.99 in-app purchase" << seriously ? like a power chord that's not six inches long ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't know that the thing needs to cough up *any* transaction on demand. << one can make his own emacs scripts do whatever one wants. notthe job of emacs to provide a preloaded button for arbitrary tasks.
jurov: ben_vulpes: what is meant by "cough up transaction"?
mircea_popescu: "a CPU profile of the time spent processing a 32 MB block by a full node is dominated by ECDSA signature verification, meaning that with the current infrastructure and computer hardware, scaling above 300 tps would require a clustered full node where ECDSA signature checking is load balanced across multiple machines."
jurov: well, but if you attach a wallet to the node, it will need to crawl whole blockchain to get its transactions?
jurov: some means to get individual txs is needed
ben_vulpes: if the node were to maintain the list of unspent transaction outputs, it would also have a list of the TXID's with unspent outputs.
ben_vulpes: it's a much more tractable problem to find transactions relevant to a given address out of that list than it is to walk the blockchain for same.
ben_vulpes: correct me if i'm wrong, but address balance is the sum of unspent transactions to that public key.
mircea_popescu: Cubs in the Islamic State, the generation that will conquer Rome in shā Allah << boys are wearing the stupid face veil thing too now ?!
jurov: but you propose to maintain only unspent ones? or none at all?
ben_vulpes: i think that maintaining the utxo list is a good idea.
ben_vulpes: with the utxo list in hand, a node could create a raw transaction for signing by an offline node.
mircea_popescu: it's not unlike the "idea" to maintain a list of the phone numbers of the entire planet.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that in order to call someone, having the phone number is not a big deal. having a passing answer for "who's this ?" is.
jurov: with bitcoin you need to know your own phone numbers
mircea_popescu: if every phone had to maintain 6bn phone numbers ? that's terrabit memory on any phone ?
jurov: yea, i'm asking how?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how long does a "rescan" take these days?
jurov: scouring whole blockchain every time address is added to wallet?
mircea_popescu: design is not a consideratio nof "how long does it take to bale the water out"
mircea_popescu: suppose you somehow DO actually want 32mb blocks. how long does a rescan take then ?
ben_vulpes: so i made two claims, let's treat them seperately
ben_vulpes: a) bitcoind should not return arbitrary transactions by id
kakobrekla: every time address is added to wallet? < if this is your common practice i think you are doing something wrong
ben_vulpes: b) bitcoind *should* be able to return transactions with unspent outputs
ben_vulpes: <kakobrekla> ... something wrong << what is best practice? feedback from industry leaders would be useful here.
jurov: okay, so for one to have complete stack, run something like electrum server that maintains the tx index and connects only to our node
mircea_popescu: bitcoind should put the blocks into an accessible database. the querying of that thing is the job of the user.
jurov: yu also imply creatng useful transaction index is the job of the user
jurov: i don't have an issue w/it
jurov: just want to clarify
mircea_popescu: there's no ready way to know hat the user will want the index to be.
mircea_popescu: trying to invent a "this is the right way" because we're the power rangers isn't the way
mircea_popescu: bitcoind should broadcast verifiable txn submitted to it.
ben_vulpes: bitcoind-wallet should generate and sign transactions.
mircea_popescu: modular fucking design, so you doin't have to change the whole thing every time a part sucks [for your usecase]
mircea_popescu: like linux. i don't have to get a new version of lindows to get rid of fucking notepad
jurov: okay. but then bitcoin will not be able whether relayed transactions aren't completely bogus
jurov: if it won't have even utxo set
kakobrekla: imho 3 parts. private key handler, bc api and a thing in between
kakobrekla: first runs on airgap, second on my server in dc and third on my desktop
jurov: so, it will allow me to relay 1000 doublespend transactions with different destination addresses, because it can't check if the source isn't spent already?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> txn are verifiable aren't they. << not really. transaction only includes txid of previous transaction which itself has the pubkey required for validation.
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> bitcoind should broadcast verifiable txn submitted to it. <<
jurov: and to do it you need to find all the inputs, if i understand ben_vulpes correctly
ben_vulpes: to verify a new transaction, one needs the previous transaction in hand, in entirety.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes once a transaction is proposed, the software has two options. 1) "oh , this looks like a tx involving inputs i remember were valid" and 2) "these are the inputs. check. these are their sources. check. these are their sources. check. this is the coinbase. check. ok."
mircea_popescu: and i don't give a shit how convenient it is. let userland cut down the correct implementation for the sake of convenience.
mircea_popescu: if you check you check. if you don't check, then don't check.
jurov: mircea_popescu: but it also means it will relay all shit imaginable, you regard it as convenience otherwise?
jurov: how else you want to check relayed transactions from other nodes?
mircea_popescu: by looking at their inputs, an the inputs for those inputs, all the way to the valid coinbases involved.
ben_vulpes: so then the thing *does* need to retrieve arbitrary transactions.
jurov: but you sid it should not know anything about he inputs
jurov: you said it's the user's job to
mircea_popescu doesn't understand why this is contentious and will re-read.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it needs to retrieve arbitrary blocks. why txn specifically ?
mircea_popescu: you can't have a valid txn in an otherwise invalid block.
mircea_popescu: maybe these other words work better : "transactions" is a useful notion when adding data to blocks. it is in no way useful, or even existent, when verifying anything. all you can verify, both the most and the least you can verify, are BLOCKS.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "a valid transaction". merely, a valid block.
ben_vulpes: i guess this implies maintaining an index of txn hashes -> block hashes for lookup and validity checking
mircea_popescu: you can, for the sake of being silly, talk of "transactions included in valud blocks" but it really doens';t mean anythinmg. a block is a block.
mircea_popescu: jurov i thought we were discussing bitcoin as a spec, rather than bitcoin as a hack.
jurov: having whole block wont help you, you need the utxo public key
ben_vulpes: jurov: a transaction in a block contains the public key iirc
jurov: how else you 'll be cerain it's the same utxo that baked in the block?
jurov: that's what i'm asking, if you don't care it won't check relayed transactions?
jurov: for all manners of double spends?
mircea_popescu: in block 2, a tx takes 20 btc from 1block1coinbase to 1testaddress1 ; 50 btc > 1block2coinbase
mircea_popescu: we see in block 3 a tx that proposes to take 10 btc from 1testaddress1 to 1 testaddress2. you propose we can't verify what ?
jurov: if it's laready mined, then someone else verified it
jurov: but i'm talking about 0conf transactions
mircea_popescu: well the block 3 tx i named as "proposed" is a 0 conf.
mircea_popescu: so you see this 0 conf tx that's being proposed references an input in block 2. which you have and you verify and that's that.
jurov: you need to find and extract the specific inputs used and check the public keys
jurov: and if you don't have tx index, that means getting whole blocks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17950 @ 0.00049152 = 8.8228 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: if you know that block 2 is verified, and you know that 1testadress1 is the 1testaddress1, what more do you need to check ?
jurov: because addresses aren't the atomic units
ben_vulpes: if i can interrupt, i'm coming at this problem from an entirely different angle.
jurov: you can send 10 times something to an address
jurov: thwen wehn you want to spend it
jurov: you must exactly name all these 10 inputs!
ben_vulpes: which is the transaction creation process.
ben_vulpes: if i'm reading correctly, you propose moving transaction creation *out* of bitcoind.
ben_vulpes: i guess a step backwards is in order first
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> first runs on airgap, second on my server in dc and third on my desktop << seems txn are logically created on 1.
ben_vulpes: you're proposing a new "wallet" that knows how to create transactions.
ben_vulpes: the bitcoind *node* doesn't give a whit about transaction creation
mircea_popescu: the bitcoind node keeps a db, the bitcoind wallet selects what it wants and does what it pleases.
mircea_popescu: the bitcoind node makes sure it did what it pleased within bounds, and off it goes.
jurov: mircea_popescu: pls closer describe your idea of checking the transaction. maybe there lies the problem
jurov: you singlehandedly rejected the wiki link so you know better?
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2015 00:53:08; mircea_popescu: let me model this for a moment.
jurov: transaction is not checked against whole coinbase or whole blocks
jurov: but against individual outputs that it spends.
jurov: they may even not yet be in block
mircea_popescu: i don't follow. use the formalism in the model, that's why it's there.
jurov: because your model says about whole blocks and coinbases
mircea_popescu: well... you can't have any btc to spend if you don;t have any btc to spend. that specifically means, a derivaiton of a coinbase, in a block.
decimation: before block 3 is published, 1testaddress2 sends to 1testaddress3 (both 0 verify)?
jurov: but as 0conf transaction can be checked against other 0conf transactions (remmeber satoshidice?)
mircea_popescu: you can't have the 3rd higher in the tree than the 2nd
kakobrekla: seems txn are logically created on 1. < afaik you can do it on 3 and just sign on 1
jurov: they can be all included at once (but not in reverse order)
mircea_popescu: they can "prepare" your tx, but for my formalism, it ios "created" once 1.
mircea_popescu: jurov so basdically you're talking of a degenerate case of my model, which sure, as a convenience can be implemented by my model as well.
mircea_popescu: "oh look, 3 is based on 2 which we just approved, include it too"
jurov: no i'm trying to explain transactions maintain their identity in blocks
mircea_popescu: they do not. transactions once included are no longer a thing.
decimation: so to be clear - before block 3 is verified, 1testaddress1 sends 20 btc to 1testaddress2, and 1testaddress2 sends 20 btc to 1testaddress3? Is that the issue?
mircea_popescu: they are only a thing while in mempool. but once they're in the block, they melt away.
jurov: you seem to imagine they got poured into the blocks as scraps of gold into a solid brick
mircea_popescu: again : all you can verify, both the most and the least you can verify, are BLOCKS.
jurov: because any new transaction explicitly names each idividual scrap
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "veryinfing a transaction that was already included"
jurov: so to verify if you mus pull the scraps out
jurov: i'm about new ones
mircea_popescu: just because that's what you do now doesn't imply it's what you must do.
mircea_popescu: currently proposed transactions are verified on the basis of historically accepted blocks, not on tyhe basis of historically accepted transactions.
ben_vulpes: all that must be done is check that a tx input comes from a previous block.
jurov: can it be done without doing the individual signatures?
ben_vulpes: ah ah but check that a transaction is in a block
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all that needs to be done is verify that a tx input matches a previously included output, and that the block was valid.
jurov: for that you want to have the outputs indexed somewhere
mircea_popescu: jurov not more than in the sense of knowing which blocks they were in
jurov: okay, then we're on the same page
mircea_popescu: i think we mgiht be. will have to re-re-read this sometime that's not saturday night in between cabaret and strip club.
decimation: so, if one 'submits' a chain of 1000 transactions, attached to only one tx output, one can imagine that they might not verify all in the same block, depending on the mempool logic
kakobrekla: if transaction bloodline is bs, why are we against bc shelling/pruning
mircea_popescu: note that the way proposed above allows one to still verify the whole damned chain from block 1 onwards.
mircea_popescu: in general, we';re not against anything power rangers CLAIM to want to do. it's just that a) thjey never actually do it and b) always break other things 'attempting'
ben_vulpes: do bitcoind-node and bitcoind-wallet share a db?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla let me put it another way : the miner output of a block is actually defined by the code as "everything left over once you substract the sum output from the sum input"
mircea_popescu: if this isn't proof that a transaction once included loses its identity i have no idea what would.
jurov: if you need to keep track in which block it is, then it does have identity
jurov: ofc when it is fully spend, then you won't have to do anymore
mircea_popescu: there's a degenerate case where you gift it to miners, but otherwise...
jurov: we're going in circles
jurov: maybe last try: let's have deposits to mpex sprinkled in various blocks, they are unspent outputs
jurov: now you do withdrawal, you need to gather and sign all of them despite it's the same 1Fx address
jurov: that's fine, that's up to wallet
jurov: everyone who wants to check the withdraawal is valid, needs to gether them all too
jurov: to check the signatures
jurov: they check as above
ben_vulpes: so they actually troll through the whole blockchain
mircea_popescu: jurov let's take the following case : on march 15th, 1jurovaddress gets 1 btc. on march 20th, 1jurovaddress gets 1 btc.
jurov: yes, hence the various horrible database turds
mircea_popescu: now, which btc is spent through this process is not established by you.
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> jurov i thought we were discussing bitcoin as a spec, rather than bitcoin as a hack. <<
ben_vulpes: i'm talking about the reference implementation.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes is this "bitcoin as it should be" or "bitcoin as it is to be inferred from current codebase"
jurov: well mircea, then make a spec. many people unsuccessfully tried various mixing proposals that were supposed to do what you propose
jurov: maybe monero has it, dunno
jurov: but it hasnt' anything with bitcoin then
ben_vulpes: but you're saying that if i cook up a transaction that has 1march29th as an input, the miners should actually rewrite that to use 1march15th as an input?
ben_vulpes: how is my signature even valid in that scenario?
ben_vulpes: perhaps i don't understand what all gets signed. more than likely.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah. im just saying, if it's ambiguous, then it's ambiguous.
jurov: it was never ambiguous
jurov: nor there was successful attempt to make it so so far
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> once you sign out of an output, it's out. < o.O
ben_vulpes: if i want to spend my low-priority outputs, that's my problem.
mircea_popescu: jurov weren't you proposing that *somehow* there's ambiguous outputs as the entire point of what you were saying ?
ben_vulpes: much like if you want a > 1m transaction that's your problem
mircea_popescu: <jurov> now you do withdrawal, you need to gather and sign all of them despite it's the same 1Fx address << it's whjat i took this to introduce.
jurov: it's not ambigouous, *you*, means your wallet picks up individual deposits
jurov: makes a withdrawal out of them
jurov: and no miner ever has a say in which ones
mircea_popescu: but if they are different outputs, included in variuous blocks... they're verifiable by those blocks... ?
jurov: no, they're verifiable by themselves
jurov: regardless if they are in blocks
mircea_popescu: 1 btc from block 5, 1.5 btc also from block 5, 2 btc from block 6 -> 4.5 btc to 1derp
jurov: ^yes now that transaction would list both inputs from block 5
mircea_popescu: but the reason you know they're valid outputs is that block 5 is a valid block.
mircea_popescu: the reason ytou know block 5 is a valid block IS that they were valid outputs, or was at the time, but this is a separate topic.
jurov: "valid" and "confirmed" are two things
mircea_popescu: see ? that's the whole thing. that these two are separate.
jurov: you can have valid unconfirmed transactions, even valid tx that spend unconfirmed transactions
mircea_popescu: but once in a block, all you can have is a confirmed block.
jurov: check that is it valid is done by checking all the inputs' singatures
mircea_popescu: you can't have "these are the valid and these are the invalid txn of block 6"
jurov: check that it is verified is done by checking it's in block somewhere
mircea_popescu: maybe the reason we've talked so long about this is because we're saying the same thing/
jurov: maybe. the issue was the need to track unspent outputs, regardless of
jurov: whether they are mined or not
ben_vulpes: and all of this because i asked about what should bear responsibility for creating and signing transactions.
jurov: right. and even if node doesn't create txs itself, i'm asking about verifying whatever txs flying around
mircea_popescu: A. Here's proof i control address X, and here's a payment of 500 btc to it *included in block Y*
mircea_popescu: what's being verified is a) control of the address in question and b) bitcoin feeding it included in a block.
decimation: buttonwood_: do you work for the economist?
decimation: there's a semi-anonymous column there by the same name?
mats: seems ddosbot has been powered down
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2744 @ 0.00049181 = 1.3495 BTC [+] {2}
mats: its not a real thing, buttonwood_.
mats: hasn't been done, won't be done.
mats: 'smart contract technology'.
mats: because 'hard ai' doesn't exist yet.
mats: all extant projects purporting to be 'smart contract technology' is a scam. like ethereum.
mats: look, you can't offload the complex business of trust to anything but a human.
mats: can't be done. deal with people you trust or don't do business, full stop.
mats: multi sig and escrow are essentially bad patches to a broken trust model
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64709 @ 0.00049611 = 32.1028 BTC [+] {4}
mats: sack up and take responsibility for your actions.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59891 @ 0.00048544 = 29.0735 BTC [-] {4}
mats: offloading due diligence and trying to use technology as a crutch to paper over deficiencies in your business relationship sounds suspiciously like the old world way of doing things
mats: use the ratings and talk to the raters
ben_vulpes: <mats> use the ratings and talk to the raters << this. again and again, this.
ben_vulpes: buttonwood_: you can't trust people that you don't trust. end of story.
ben_vulpes: trust is built over time, and can't be abstracted out.
assbot: buttonwood_ is not registered in WoT.
ben_vulpes: you're clearly in a good position to be talking about how business should be done around here.
mats: man, this sicilian lentil soup is fucking amazing
mats: 21:15:50 <+mats> multi sig and escrow are essentially bad patches to a broken trust model << in the way you mean to use it, that is
ben_vulpes: there was an options exchange for a while, buttonwood_.
ben_vulpes: anyways, there was one. are you aware of why it shut down?
ben_vulpes: anyways, buttonwood_ are you still interested in working this thread?
Pierre_Rochard: buttonwood_ Mainly because of the trust involved if you were to sell me an option. < I’d say it’s mainly because the volatility and discount rate are going to be completely out of whack until fiat is destroyed
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 12.30387905 BTC. Current weight: 61,285.
ben_vulpes: buttonwood_: ^^ that bet right there is a good example of best-in-class contracts.
Pierre_Rochard: ^ exactly, the difference between a computer oracle and a human arbitrator approaches nil over time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00049024 = 10.7363 BTC [+] {2}
mats: mircea_popescu: i've observed that the number of cases meeting the parameters in the courts-circus project are very scarce: i've read every case involving the judges nubbins` listed, with the keyword privacy on Westlaw, which yielded about 90 cases
mats: mircea_popescu: but there are 11 judges with 0 cases and 12 with just 1. i'm now going through and reading every case involving USG, i've cleared ten judges this way, but the number of cases i've been able to find have been fairly low in number
mats: mircea_popescu: are you interested in loosening the requirements?
mats: i figured i'd give it a shot before proceeding, i've put at least 400 hours in already and i believe there may not be quite a lot of useful data at the end if i continue this way
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00097526 = 2.4382 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10459 @ 0.00049322 = 5.1586 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6191 @ 0.00050758 = 3.1424 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00096062 = 2.4016 BTC [-] {10}
mircea_popescu: <buttonwood_> I've been really interested in applying the smart contract technology to bitcoin-otc. Are there currently any active smart contracts or oracles doing escrow trading on bitcoin irc ? << no. people do thje trust calculation by hand.
mircea_popescu: <mats> multi sig and escrow are essentially bad patches to a broken trust model << mats is like the oracle on the topic now!
mircea_popescu: buttonwood_> There has to be a better way to do otc trades tho. << nope. isn't, for provable reason. isn't happening in practice, either.
mircea_popescu: <mats> mircea_popescu: are you interested in loosening the requirements? << perhaps. do you see meaningful expansions ?
decimation: at the present time, it seems to me that bitcoin derivatives do not serve a real market need
decimation: yeah. the public can make bitbets; that's probably mostly what they want anyway
mats: mats is like the oracle on the topic now! << not sure if you're criticizing what i said there
mats: perhaps. do you see meaningful expansions ? << how about the production of communications to include voice, where there is a written record of it? e.g. transcript of wiretap log
mats: i was hoping you'd have a better idea tbh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4257 @ 0.00050758 = 2.1608 BTC [+]
diametric: Somehow I've never seen this before.
mircea_popescu: how about the production of communications to include voice << im not sure right off what that'd do.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7268 @ 0.00050758 = 3.6891 BTC [+]
assbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of shit, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a fuckwit. Plus other considerations. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1uKxtRQ )
mircea_popescu: i suppose it is a testament to my scholarship that i can actually get away with outsourcing the actual readsing ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're in teh list arentcha ? he asked me specifically to confirm. you're also confirmed!
mircea_popescu: nah, just, i know what qs to ask of people. "go read it and i'll ask you things"
ben_vulpes: amusingly, i was confirmed without paying.
mircea_popescu: nah, ben_vulpes only scammed participant. neglected to send 2.x ended up sending 8.x
ben_vulpes: too bad i'm too bad of a scammer to pull it off
ben_vulpes: for the record, attendance declarations are only binding on those who wish to attend, not his unimpeachable lordship mircea_popescu
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i refer of course to the quoted price of attendance.
ben_vulpes: re dogillionaires, that was fluffypony
ben_vulpes: mthreat this is almost worse than useless
ben_vulpes: - translate block height to block hash
ben_vulpes: - return the height of the current best-known chain
ben_vulpes: - return a block corresponding to a given hash
ben_vulpes: but there are subspaces, if you'll allow the floppiness of wording.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the reason, incidentally, i didn';t read it myself is i dun trust my rudimentary c understanding.
mircea_popescu: best have ppl that spoeak the language tlel you what the paper says.
ben_vulpes: f'r instance, the thing should cough up on the command line, a block if given a hash
ben_vulpes: idiomatic cpp aside, thoughts on the list?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: how can you forget my dogeillionaires redirect!
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: if i know that the most recent block was of height N, I can ask bitcoind-node for the hash of the block at height N
mircea_popescu: the notion of N must be subordinate ot the blocks only identifier, its hash
mircea_popescu: (another bit of braindamage th epower rangers forced upon the world, other than "historical transaction validity" as a thing, is "block as aheight"
mircea_popescu: this is nonsense of the first order, an utter antipattern, and iof they weren't stupid as frogs i'd suspect its deliberate
mircea_popescu: like sending you to hunt for snipes so yo ucan't be a huner)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00051016 = 6.53 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: think of it as "chain of pointers" and now tell me who the fuck doesn't flunk the idiot that actually keeps an enumeration array for the chain
ben_vulpes: then this implies a requirement that a bitcoind-node know about and be able to return data about the various chains of which it knows.
ben_vulpes: if you'll forgive the glib response, figure out what can be riven from the satoshi codebase
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no asciilifeform put it in proper terms. it's a tree.
mircea_popescu: you can, if you wish, implement a function that returns "equibranches" on a tree.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it does, unfortunately, mean that they who did forget / never had what to forget can pass for "geniuses"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, just the power ranger lot. they'd have (i optimistically assume) been excluded / self out-selected if the satoshi actually understood programming.
mircea_popescu: a codebase that's written by a monkey is more liable to attact "do-ocracy" monkeys than one written by a sane person.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00051484 = 5.8434 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: static char line_buf[LINE_COUNTER_BUF_LEN] = { ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', ' ', '0', '\t', '\0' };
ben_vulpes: i discovered recently that "baby" carrots aren't so much "lathed" as they are knocked around in a conical abrasive vessel
ben_vulpes: perhaps a lonely registered participant?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00051512 = 4.7649 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: Nubbins`: you should launch FNC, FuckNubbinsCoin
nubbins`: fluffypony i lel'd heartily at the video
nubbins`: big reveal at the start: lasered art in wood
mod6: Cointrader exchange, etc? *shrug*
nubbins`: then he fucks with it with his dremel w/ the sandpaper attachment (??)
nubbins`: sprays water on it at one point
ben_vulpes: the one who did a runner with a Havelock "raise"
mod6: ben_vulpes: oh my bad. my eyes are bleary.
ben_vulpes: mod6: my contacts are gumming up too :)
mircea_popescu: CAVirtex, Canada’s largest and oldest Bitcoin online exchange, is facing a potential class action lawsuit to the tune of $884,880 CAD. The alleged losses were incurred by the lawsuit-bringers after the company offered 10% of its shares for sale on the cryptocurrency-based asset exchange, Havelock Investments then stopped listing the stock by the end of 2013.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i've met mitch callahan a couple times irl
mircea_popescu: these guys "delisted" at a 25% buyback that they didn't really honor
mircea_popescu: what do we do once they simply start repeating names ?
mircea_popescu: BFL the "Exchange" , pirate the asic manufacturer, woodcutter the ponzi scheme...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes only if you're willing to cut noobs entirely loose
ben_vulpes: they're already cut loose. can't get into b-a
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: anything in particular you'd like to know about your interested participant for the conference?
mircea_popescu: i thought nubbins was contemplating a genderbendin' surgical intervention.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski nothing in particular, just the general.
ben_vulpes: i thought he was going under the knife to get rid of the spear
mircea_popescu: i think he has been delaborately confusing us to gain time
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: mitch runs a little coding shop, they do some web design as well
nubbins`: he actually posted the video hey
nubbins`: i'd recommend someone else watch it and give you a summary
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: we've met twice, once for drinks, once for coffee
pete_dushenski: i don't think he's done his 6 months tho, not seriously
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: anyways, mitch sends me the off pgp-gram, and i recently sent him to the trilema jobs board
pete_dushenski: then he said "oh, what about this conference?" and i told him to leave a comment if he was interested
ben_vulpes: that's how the staff'll address my she-spawn
ben_vulpes: aw i fucked the genders there didn't i
ben_vulpes: i'm rarin to go harin' after herrin herring
ben_vulpes: anyways, how does this work in practice: 2 mining pools release a block (B, C), building off the prev (A) - do miners arbitrarily choose which child block to continue building on?
ben_vulpes: do ops frantically get on the horn to get their block into the long chain?
mircea_popescu: in practice either whichever they hear first or whichever has better likely outcomes
hanbot: <ben_vulpes> how was the strip club, hanbot? << no buttered strip clubs for me, thanks, i'm off to play the grand piano
ben_vulpes: what actually happened there? i thought the forked chain was rejected?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: come to think of it, mitch has been by assets before but under a pseudonym
gribble: menahem was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 3 days, 16 hours, 22 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <menahem> lemme verify my id again. brb, heading to an office space. gracias for the welcome.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell thestrin1puller ffs thestringpuller fix your bouncer
mircea_popescu: " do ops frantically get on the horn to get their block into the long chain?" << through that process.
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> then it'd be heiress Herrin Herring << who opens up an earing shop, obviously
ben_vulpes: the fork-block didn't make it into the main chain, correct?
mircea_popescu: you're talking of ambiguous things as if they were specified.
mircea_popescu: "the winner of world war three was a good man, right ?
mircea_popescu: or whatever other random css expert gavin found on fiverr.
ben_vulpes: amusingly, oleg andreev abandoned the only decent gui client for 'git' on os x
ben_vulpes: it's amusing to watch everyone manually patch the closed source turdball to cope with each successive os x upgrade
ben_vulpes: in order to do what precisely with bitcoin?
ben_vulpes: certainly not hang out with the asshats.
mircea_popescu: punkman he did it deliberately so it's artistic and unique
mircea_popescu: there's a book "luxury rotary bits management" you should read.
pete_dushenski: unless web access is immune from ddosbot, i dunno if it is
ben_vulpes: metsuno you're going to get expelled hanging out here
nubbins`: punkman i'm not sure why nobody is mentioning that the design is already laser etched into the fuckin piece when the video starts
nubbins`: then the guy just runs his dremel around the already-engraved letter
punkman: nubbins, oh it looked like pencil, but then I wondered about the outer circles
ben_vulpes: nubbins` this comes back to the trouble of identifying malice vs incompetence
nubbins`: the whole thing is actually etched before the camera is turned on
nubbins`: i'm tempted to go get the design laser etched onto a piece myself
nubbins`: and create my own video of me dremelling it
nubbins`: but that would definitely qualify as "getting out of hand"
punkman: you could do the same job with a dull spoon I think
nubbins`: i'm all "why didn't he laser the entire background if he's gonna do this?"
nubbins`: did you get to the part where he sprays water on the wood?
nubbins`: i guess it brings out the grain
ben_vulpes: i scrubbed to 1 hour in, saw the burns, bailed
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: it actually shows the grain remarkably well, and nondestructively to boot
cazalla: pete_dushenski, you driving around in john voight's car or wut?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00049708 = 3.3801 BTC [-]
punkman: the end with the laser pointer and text that says "hey first piece I lazered"
punkman: "Beyond that, this is the season when i import all my wood to get me through the next year. That means on average i have from 1 to 5 trucks showing up a week, 1 or 2 shipments coming through customs i need to keep on top of, and also a dozen employees to keep track of."
nubbins`: i suspect smoothie from the forums is kinda stupid
cazalla: pete_dushenski, everybody's talk at you but you can't hear a word they're saying.. just driving 'round in saddam's car
ben_vulpes: you guys gotta stop bringing these scams around here
nubbins`: actually, remove "suspect" and "kinda"
nubbins`: and "i" or else it doesn't make sense
nubbins`: ^ quicker than putting chrome into focus
nubbins`: ;;google regular-expressions.info
nubbins`: powerful, but so is finally fitting a medicine ball in your asshole
ben_vulpes: AlexWkz: your cloak is getting applied after you join channels
nubbins`: once it's in, you sit down quite rapidly
nubbins`: AlexWkz try putting your nickserv password into your network settings
cazalla: so is this 2gb wood carving tutorial worth the dl or does the thread provide enough lulz?
punkman: "In some conceivable but unlikely scenarios, you might see incoming transactions as having 6+ confirmations when the transactions are actually invalid"
punkman: ah two weeks old, pardon me
nubbins`: "OK, so he didn't use a laser"
nubbins`: like... dude, are you even having the same conversation as us?
nubbins`: or just copying random words and pasting them into sentences
nubbins`: you could piss in this man's face and tell him his lips are dry, he'd reach for the balm
nubbins`: so i have this korg sample sequencer, and it comes with 100 built-in sounds
nubbins`: you have to use an iphone app to load new samples onto it
nubbins`: except they were kind enough to release an SDK, written in C, on github ;o
nubbins`: modulates it into modem-y sounds
nubbins`: which you play in through the clock sync port
nubbins`: you can also transfer sequence information via this same method
nubbins`: so, e.g. arrange your patterns beforehand and send em over
nubbins`: it's actually surprisingly fun.
nubbins`: and will literally hit brown notes if connected to a proper sound system
ben_vulpes: it just makes life so much worse when people show up and play youtube videos
nubbins`: ^ this is the creator messing with it
ben_vulpes: i can't wait for bandwidth to get expensive again
nubbins`: takes one piano sound and makes an entire sequence with it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84156 @ 0.00048645 = 40.9377 BTC [-] {5}
thestringpuller: it was pretty bad they disconnected me for 40 minutes off the backbone
thestringpuller: Pretty much like an outage but there wasn't an outage at all, so it had to be DDOS.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment"
http://bitbet.us/bet/786/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 43(Y):57(N) by weight. Total bet: 5509.50957001 BTC. Current weight: 6,148.
gribble: BingoBoingo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 21 hours, 47 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: perhaps we have your new pc here. << very interesting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00049708 = 9.6434 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00049708 = 9.0469 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00050438 = 7.8431 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00051062 = 7.3019 BTC [+] {3}
fluffypony: ben_vulpes: that's precisely the current Monero architecture
fluffypony: the daemon maintains the connection to the network
fluffypony: relays blocks / transactions, stores the blockchain, etc.
fluffypony: and then you can run as many wallet clients as you want
fluffypony: even if they're on separate computers and talk over your LAN to the daemon
fluffypony: oh, and the daemon is also the thing that does / can do solo mining
fluffypony: although it'll gladly serve up work via a GBT-style call
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27658 @ 0.00051515 = 14.248 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00047658 = 10.3894 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37588 @ 0.00047436 = 17.8302 BTC [-] {4}
coderwill: I was following a conversation on GitHub for Bitcoin.org, and found it interesting that Circle has explicitly requested to be removed from the site because it targets a different demographic from what they are searching for.
assbot: Add long time duration HSTS as a requirement for wallets by saivann · Pull Request #700 · bitcoin/bitcoin.org · GitHub ... (
http://bit.ly/1yGUhkX )
punkman: coderwill, nobody will want anything to do with bitcoin.org or the foundation, sooner or later
coderwill: punkman: i can understand the foundation, but i wonder why the website?
coderwill: punkman: BF just pays a sponsorship fee to help cover the hosting costs, and to support saivann helping maintain it and a few other projects on there, they don't own it
punkman: coderwill: iirc bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org are owned by some dude that for some reason lets various derps use them
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2014 15:27:40; ThickAsThieves: "bitcoin.org's content is managed by Saïvann Carignan, who is somewhat associated with the Foundation (though not an employee AFAIK), but the bitcoin.org domain name is jointly owned by me, Sirius, and an anonymous person. We will take action if bitcoin.org is being used inappropriately or the development group does something crazy." ~Theymos
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2575 @ 0.00095352 = 2.4553 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1193 @ 0.00095001 = 1.1334 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17850 @ 0.00051528 = 9.1977 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20450 @ 0.00051553 = 10.5426 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00051124 = 1.3292 BTC [-]
decimation: I didn't realize that the Crimea was filled with Tartars
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00051159 = 12.7642 BTC [+] {2}
davout: ;;later tell mircea_popescu: looks like /r/buttcoin folks are actually agreeing
davout: "If Bitcoiners could ever get decent adoption and max out that 7 transactions per second the fees wouldn't even have to be that bad. Just make every transaction cost 0.006 BTC and that's just $1.50. That would be the equivalent of the current block reward. But the problem is they've all decided that microtransactions while having an expensive Bitcoin is the killer feature."
davout: seems to me that folks from /r/buttcoin are an order of magnitude less retarded than those in /r/bitcoin
davout: fluffypony: the saivann guy is obviously some sort of topological equivalent of a feminist, tries to push irrelevant shit to feel like he, in some way, matters
empyex: mod6: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: mod6: MPEx-Status: mpex.bz (89 milliseconds), mpex.co (91 milliseconds), mpex.ws (102 milliseconds), mpex.biz (167 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (592 milliseconds)
empyex: mod6: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52200 @ 0.00051512 = 26.8893 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.0005096 = 1.5288 BTC [-]
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021389 B (Total: 467.74 B). Delta: -1.46 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000205 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34350 @ 0.00050093 = 17.2069 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26800 @ 0.0004833 = 12.9524 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3198 @ 0.00047318 = 1.5132 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33600 @ 0.00046955 = 15.7769 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: davout well geneally yes, but some voices in particular seem to hate you personally.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 39 @ 0.10061442 = 3.924 BTC [-] {12}
davout: as the classical french wisdom goes: "on est tous le connard de quelqu'un d'autre"
mircea_popescu: It looks like he made his goal in life to be the most detestable person in the internet. (Methinks he is still nowhere near that rank, though.) However he is a precious resource, as an expert bitcoiner who enjoys kicking some of the most sacred cows in bitcoinland.
mircea_popescu: so apparently this stolfi brazilian derp figures himself some sort of stragetist or something ?
mircea_popescu: i dun think there's anything more adorkably pathetic than academics aiming for political power. sort-of like the bichon frizee trying to mount a german shepherd in heat.
mircea_popescu: dat dangling minipenis, a foot under the all consuming hole...
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: did you see cai guo-qiang's fireworks last night?
ben_vulpes: "paints" with gunpowder between vellum sheets
ben_vulpes: saw a scad of his stuff at the guggenheim when i lived in nyc. rather fun.
mircea_popescu: well... i guess because i was mostly indoors ? only 10 or so miles away
ben_vulpes: suspended a bunch of cars right down the center of the place with flourescent tubes to evoke a fireworks show
ben_vulpes: well not the static piece in the middle of the goog lol no
ben_vulpes: he did the beijing olympics firework show iirc
mircea_popescu: eyah but you're basically assking someone in manhattan if they saw whatever cars in astoria.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26256 @ 0.00046955 = 12.3285 BTC [-]
coderwill: just reading about this nisman story, bizarre
ben_vulpes: the cars were at the guggenheim in nyc
coderwill: what does la boca have to do w/ the nisman situation?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17002 @ 0.00047318 = 8.045 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: kinda looks like the self-leveling stuff
ben_vulpes ponders the notion of a self-leveling woman
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44700 @ 0.0005123 = 22.8998 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: "Frank Sinatra had a terrible temper, as shown by his irrational hatred of Barbara Streisand"
mircea_popescu: dude paul anka is fucking retarded. how the fuck would a hatred of nosewoman be irrational ?
assbot: America’s best-selling cars and trucks are built on lies: The rise of fake engine noise - The Washington Post ... (
http://bit.ly/1Ekyinh )
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 01:41:29; asciilifeform: speaking of diamonds (specifically of the synthetic variety), one possible observation here - not concerning the idiocy of the wood thing as such - is that anyone demanding a specific 'colour' (as per the 'monolith' essay) - i.e. provenance - of object, is begging to be chumped
ben_vulpes: i've always wanted to crush some diamonds.
mircea_popescu: "Among purists, the trickery has inspired an identity crisis and cut to the heart of American auto legend. "
mircea_popescu: look, it's dying, what do you want from it. cars are pretty fucking stupid. they had an economic niche which made us forget temporarily, but it's closed up.
pete_dushenski: the fake car noises are because the cars are so well insulated now
pete_dushenski: and the engines are all turbo because "fuel-efficiency"
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski but the "idnetity crisis" is not because of the change in car noise.
mircea_popescu: it's because in the change in the future prospects of the whole activity.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i have a notion of how diamond cutting works/ed
mircea_popescu: merely disguises itself as "because X", like a domestic argument. in fact, it's becaue there's going to be a divorce.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: you're right, the identity crisis is that of americans as a whole
mircea_popescu: well that's one thinmg, but specifically as to the car, this entire car-and-zoning-laws-and-sprawl-and-commute model got killed by the internet
mircea_popescu: and it's killed and dead and not coming back and everyone and everything will change to get rid of cars, and of the sprawl
mircea_popescu: and of commutes and of the right of "governments" to decide land use.
ben_vulpes: us road infrastructure is falling apart due to expense of maintenance.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes understand : no mistress is ever pooir bnecause "of expense".
mircea_popescu: it's only expensive because we're really done with them. otherwise, they'd be a "great investment".
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski notrly, because it's not really about the gas. it's about the inconvenience.
mircea_popescu: people don't want to spend an hour driving, they want to spend that hour derping on a dating app
pete_dushenski: which would be why average joe can't wait to get a self-driving car
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: weren't they a grand investment for that generation?
mircea_popescu: (not for fucking, mind you. so give them a work at home job where no woman can ever come and a way to score nude tumblrs and that's the new economic model)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, they were, back when the interstates were built. that's perhaps the shiniest example opf "govt investment in slump" mantra.
mircea_popescu: when it's fucking clear what to spen the money on, so clear even a govt could figure it out, keynesianism works.
pete_dushenski: they've used more concrete in the past 3 years than usa in the past century
mircea_popescu: had bush spent ALL the stimulus on making internet connecxtions of 1tbps universally available, i wouldn't be here snubbing my nose at horowitz
decimation: the problem with a fancy interstate is that it costs a shitton of $$$ for upkeep
decimation: and of course it is politically impossible to admit 'we are too poor to have nice roads'
mircea_popescu: decimation i never heard of anyone complain that their 16yo cocksucker costs money to upkeep.
decimation: pete_dushenski: aren't you a fan of the econtalk podcast?
pete_dushenski is, fittingly, working on another car-related article atm
mircea_popescu: where people end up making ftp clients for firefox extensions ? because "it can be done"
decimation: "But, when you sum these things up in terms of what consumers spend in terms of getting to work, various pleasure trips and non-work trips, and then you look at what shippers spend on shipping freight and so on and so forth, and then what the government spends building infrastructure, we're talking shares of GDP (Gross Domestic Product) that approach the amount that we are spending on health care. ... And that's just out of pocket
mircea_popescu: decimation all of that used to not matter when one considered on the other side the even greater expenses of the available alternatives.
decimation: 'other side' being more or less 'private' transport and land use planning?
mircea_popescu: decimation no. "working at home" , "jacking off to porn and looking at sights on pinterest"
mircea_popescu: work and pleasure. solved, and much safer than actually going there.
mircea_popescu: "it's certainly uncontaminated by any cheese", to quote cleese.
decimation: mmorpgs and other like games probably 'employ' much 'excess' capacity in the us
mircea_popescu: we meet irl once a year, and even that's extravagant for like half the people.
mircea_popescu: what if we had to phisically drive to vegas, like kennedy HAD TO in the 50s ?
mircea_popescu: we would, of course. so what the driveway cost would not be a topic of conversation.
mircea_popescu: who here is on an economy internet package ? everyone just "give me the fattest pipe you got" "oh only that ? INTRODUCE LARGER ONES!"
thestringpuller: I nominate mircea_popescu for the bitcoin public service award!
thestringpuller: After reading all of MPOE-PR's post, I have realized MP has done the greatest public service to this community.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well you should have seen town meetings in the 60s. "FIFTY LANES WE MUST HAS! EACH WAY!"
decimation: mircea_popescu: actually much of the worst road 'infrastructure' in the northeast are in cities where people stopped highways from being built
decimation: around the same time, passenger rail went tits up, so there's little choice except shitty driving
mircea_popescu: boston actually had excellent rail system. perhaps the best in the us.
mircea_popescu: back in 2004, it was car after carful of people all reading a book
mircea_popescu: i've seen pics these days. half as full, everyone on gadget.
decimation: in fact, the sitting senator for maryland, mikulski, was personally involved in leading the riot to stop the connection of I-70 to downtown
decimation: I suspect wash dc is one of the few cities with a major upper class commuting culture
decimation: because usg is too stupid to move to somewhere cheaper
mircea_popescu: of course the lord's slave mistress is what passes for upper class among the slaves. nevertheless, the actual upper class regards the favored equal to the common slave.
gribble: BingoBoingo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 8 hours, 29 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: perhaps we have your new pc here. << very interesting
mircea_popescu: <decimation> because usg is too stupid to move to somewhere cheaper <>< nah, not how it works. wherever it moves, the bedbugs move there too. it won't stay cheaper.
thestringpuller: i swear d00ds were following me in fed-like manner in rural georgia last night.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller did you submit an article or something ?
thestringpuller: I was gonna do some weekend snippet posts to help lighten the load.
thestringpuller: more of "inquiry". article snippet is still in VIM rite nao.
thestringpuller: usually BB tells me if subject matter is "worthy" or not of qntra
mircea_popescu: ambiguous, was a pedo early bitcoin advocate with a ridoinculous hourlong webshow
mircea_popescu: was also one of the guys involved in "banker cartel" pirate bs.
mircea_popescu: in his defense, this later one was the saner of the bunch
nubbins`: show me an early advocate without a severe sexual disorder
mircea_popescu: iirc he even apologized and errything. dun recall if privately or publicly or what, years ago.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you should fish out the shows tho, they're great. derp has the camera filming in demo mode
thestringpuller: nubbins`: I guess their mommy's told them playing with their weewee is bad.
nubbins`: reminds me of the time i filmed my death & had it played for my school lit class while i took the final week off
nubbins`: frame changes to view from bottom of bridge
nubbins`: CONTRAGULATIONS in glorious chunky white vhs-c lettering superimposed on the bottom
nubbins`: completely by accident, no way to remove it. we deemed it fitting and didn't re-shoot.
nubbins`: an hero wasn't me, a bunch of ears of corn broke my fall
nubbins`: then an unrelated scuffle on the bridge led to a man being thrown off, landing on me and killing me
mircea_popescu: i recall this grandiose commie romanian cinema thing, where "so what do we do ?! " "well... he can jump on some ears of corn" "but the camera will pick them up". pause. "not if you cover them in a brick painted sheet"
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: I can submit writeup if deemed worthy otherwise It'll stay in the vim buffer
mircea_popescu: guy ended up falling on an inexplicable pile of bricks
ben_vulpes: entirely unrelated, it strikes me that a full node should probably provide "getwork" type commands for miners
nubbins`: he's actually kind of an older guy hey?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00051729 = 15.6739 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "Preference will be given to those who provide video of them damaging the finished piece with a dremel tool." lol ok
nubbins`: there's screen grabs somewhere
decimation: re: baltimore: www.prrac.org/pdf/mohl.pdf "Over the next few years, RAM continued to protest the "victimization" of black communities in the path of the interstate, which purposefully seemed designed to take "the heart out of one of the most stable communities in Baltimore." Facing the removal of 10,000 blacks who lived in the path of the east-west expressway, RAM activists challenged the highway engineers who “view people as just
decimation: another obstacle, like a hill to be leveled or a valley to be bridged.”"
nubbins`: incidentally his actual profession is "treatment plant operator" but w/e
mircea_popescu: "To most, the fact that Lila called Mitch a hero for killing himself is strange. "
nubbins`: i probably would actually pay upwards of $100 for that piece, as-is.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's a great way to end up in 20 years surrounded by junk
mircea_popescu: decimation you know i can actually see that argument ?
mircea_popescu: not as to racism in any sense, but as to why it's a bad idea
nubbins`: anyway, my dad makes pen blanks, he'd love it
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i guess not in the spirit of modular design.
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah I think you have a good point
ben_vulpes: perhaps better would be a thing that connects to the network, slurps out unconfirmed transactions and poops that back out as the mining input...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well, if you gonna do something, best know why you're doing it.
thestringpuller: nubbins`: this saga reminds me of some trailer park boys shit.
mircea_popescu: decimation i mean, if the entire objection to the mores of the black ghetto is that men don't live with the women they impregnate, and then you go demolish the one place for 500 miles where they actually do...
decimation: the problem is that in democracy, it's really easy to kill off projects, so nothing is built
nubbins`: "Professional carpenters never, ever, EVER smoke in the shop. It's an incredible fire hazard as well as a personal danger since stimulants can increase the risk of slippage on a power tool. My father was an avid chain smoker and would never allow tobacco in his work area."
mircea_popescu: decimation sure, but on the other hand the job of politics is to avoid placing the table on the toes.
decimation: mircea_popescu: although in this particular case, the neighborhoods were saved and they ended up full of broken families anyway
mircea_popescu: well yes. politics doesn't work, we know that going in.
decimation: this robert moses guy singlehandedly paved over many minority communities all around the northeast
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00049654 = 6.8523 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: i suspect smoothie from the forums is kinda stupid << generally known as such. his behaviour throughout was, to quote hanbot "nothing short of bizarre"
mircea_popescu: hm.... i never knew an "artisan" that works wood by the truckload ? this is akin to someone claiming to be dali explaining how he gets a truckload of paint a week...'
mircea_popescu: assbot: Tinder Makes Its First Match in Antarctica -- The Cut << speaking oif which : the brave mthreat amongst us is going on a south pole expedition like next week
mircea_popescu: and he's going to try an' broadcast a btc txn from down there.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: ben_vulpes: that's precisely the current Monero architecture << heh. apparently sanity is not a luxury product.
mircea_popescu: coderwill: I was following a conversation on GitHub for Bitcoin.org, and found it interesting that Circle has explicitly requested to be removed from the site because it targets a different demographic from what they are searching for. << yeah., circle is looking for suckers / idiots / people who refuse to think.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 249.02, Best ask: 249.23, Bid-ask spread: 0.21000, Last trade: 249.23, 24 hour volume: 23858.11300772, 24 hour low: 241.33, 24 hour high: 255.0, 24 hour vwap: 248.526571821
mircea_popescu: decimation: I didn't realize that the Crimea was filled with Tartars << golden horde sez nothing to you ?
mircea_popescu: davout: seems to me that folks from /r/buttcoin are an order of magnitude less retarded than those in /r/bitcoin << this is true.
mircea_popescu: one group is motivated by greed, which brings all the idiots out of the woodwork. the other group is motivated by broken ideology, which HAS a barrier to entry, because you can't adhere to an ideology and act on that basis if you're arbitrarily stupid.
mircea_popescu: it's true that you can't be smarter than Y, but you also can't be stupider than Y, and so the average will always be over Y which is not an average /r/bitcoin looks likely to reach.
mircea_popescu: but this because of what /r/ is, not because of what bitcoin is.
decimation: yeah I knew tartars/turkic peoples were scattered around the middle and eastern parts of asiatic ru, but I didn't realize they had taken up around Sevastopol
thestringpuller: what happens when all these VC fueled comapnies fail? Do we just go in an plunder them and shit?
mircea_popescu: this is what one means when he says "lithuanian situation is complicated".
mircea_popescu: you could in fact pretend like wait, "give russia back to the tatars"
decimation: putin's landgrab of crimea has a great deal of historical and cultural importance, of which the west is almost completely ignorant
mircea_popescu: well, "the west" in the sense of, "west of ozarks" are people who live in states bordered by straight lines.
mircea_popescu: obviously they imagine the world is you know, someone just walked out with a ruler cca 100 years ago
decimation: "Concretely, this has meant giving massive publicity and a momentous political significance to the 17 people killed in the Charlie Hebdo and related attacks. This contrasts sharply with the treatment given to any number of other recent tragedies: the 1,400 girls raped by largely Pakistani gangs in Rotherham, England, the tens of thousands of victims of Islamist terrorism in Syria, and the over 4,000 people killed in the Donbass
☟︎ decimation: region of Ukraine have not been given the same significance by the Brahmin classes of the West."
mircea_popescu: more relevant to our interests : the one public prosecutor murdered by the argentine state in argentina.
mircea_popescu: three guys that fire weapons by hand are not my concern. three million dickless schmucks sitting behind desks, those are the problem.
decimation: sitting behind a desk breeds a kind of passive-agressive posturing syndrome
mircea_popescu: which has to be beaten out of the afflicted, for everyone's benefit.
davout: decimation: "emopolitik" <<< this i like
decimation: davout: yeah it's a good term. note that emopolitik is called "political strategy" in the democratic west
mircea_popescu: well because the intellect is rarely functioning and universaly expensive to fire up, whereas the emoprocessor is always on.
mircea_popescu: so of course any headcount-based system will try to talk to the latter.
mircea_popescu: this is why you don't want "universal suffrage" : it makes politics a matter of emo manipulation, like marketing.
decimation: "system 1" thinking vice "system 2" thinking
mircea_popescu: anyway, the solution is quite simple : do not give everyone voice. have a voicing procedure in place.
mircea_popescu: and the solution will prevail because the problems universal suffrage straddles its practitioners with are not only unresolvable, but actually heavier than the sum benefits.
decimation: mircea_popescu: one wonders why newspapers haven't caught onto this idea
mircea_popescu: the intellect is rarely functioning and universaly expensive to fire up
mircea_popescu: the only sort of situation where US systems approach survivability are very plain, obvious questions that everyone, even a turtle, would get right.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22963 @ 0.00049352 = 11.3327 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: which is whence the crisis-oriented politics of all US sytems comes from. the only time the US US made sense was during war with germany. "either yer fer or against!"
mircea_popescu: so in general, sanity only needs very minimal measures to defend itself from the otherwise doomed attempts to relevancy of the us-ists : keep issues from becoming simple matters.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42700 @ 0.00048548 = 20.73 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16865 @ 0.00049721 = 8.3854 BTC [+]
jurov: lxr is same incredibly warty crufty stuff as mailman.. but seems i got it working somehow
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00048866 = 4.9355 BTC [-]
jurov: if it had go parser, i'd put btcd there too
jurov: well... lxr is in perl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00049081 = 6.6259 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: His mastery of the skill comes not from his ability to "cut around the lines" but in that he can from start to finish carve on some of the most difficult woods in the world to work with. Wood that 80% of your so called "master carvers" as they claim on youtube and the woodworking forums would not touch in a hundred years because it takes some serious talent to carve them.
mircea_popescu: apparently the average chump believes talent to be a sort of spark-of-superman.
mircea_popescu: maybe woodcollector should carve a block of boron carbide next, as a super-show of his super-talents.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26792 @ 0.00050569 = 13.5484 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00050561 = 5.764 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: if anyone wants to know what happens to "exciting revolutionary start-ups" once the burn rate burns through... tin eye is a fine example.
mircea_popescu: can't fucking find well known sets that are all over the interwebs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20950 @ 0.00049087 = 10.2837 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "This sounds like a legit deal to me because the bitcoin mining can keep it going."
Naphex: apparently a lot of romanians & italians are biting on it
Naphex: they get hooked irl ;o
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00048649 = 4.5244 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: anyway, what discussion, flavour of the week tardstalk scam
CoraCrisT: and don`t forget "the marketing plan" . they have all figured out it seems
CoraCrisT: just waiting for the horde to join
mircea_popescu: eh, read up on the ognasty thing , or the diablo whatever that was for the classics of the genre
mircea_popescu: i suppose now that garza packed it, buncha noobs will be trying for the "first best largest" bitcoin scam thing.
CoraCrisT: i love the high heels... they go great with the rustic roads back home
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00050656 = 3.9258 BTC [+]
mats: yeah. there are also easier attacks if you mean to go the rogue AP route.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1263 @ 0.00098375 = 1.2425 BTC [+]
gribble: BingoBoingo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: perhaps we have your new pc here. << very interesting
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 254.41, Best ask: 254.94, Bid-ask spread: 0.53000, Last trade: 254.4, 24 hour volume: 28837.40598966, 24 hour low: 241.33, 24 hour high: 257.0, 24 hour vwap: 249.600325346