⏐︎▁ 14618
felipelalli: thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices. ☟︎
felipelalli: vorandrew: thanks for explain your point.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: "felipelalli it actually already works like that." << what exactly "works like that"? Sorry, I couldn't link it. --- And thanks for the links, I'll read it.
felipelalli: thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: "felipelalli it actually already works like that." << what exactly "works like that"? Sorry, I couldn't link it. --- And thanks for the links, I'll read it.
felipelalli: vorandrew: you said "you repay all year just to get max rating" << no, no. The service does not work like that. Actually, if you get too many loans your score can decrease. The score is very bad implemented / executed yet, but it is not SO bad like that. And 660K BTC? Well, they played in TOTAL until today 44K BTC. Total. I like the idea of P2P lending: it is not the most secure investment ever but at least is fun play choosing the
felipelalli: right lists, and the right rates. I really want to understand better why you guys dislike it so much. In my country the interest rates are very high. In my bank, for example, I can get a loan with 7% per month MIN! APR 125% and in BTCJam I made some tests and I could get my first loand with 3% per month (42% APR) and then the second 2.8% (39% APR). The loan is so fucking high in bank that I can say like mircea_popescu said: "we are
felipelalli: like a village without bank". You guys forget that I live in Brazil, shit of country.
Pierre_Rochard: You guys forget that I live in Brazil, shit of country. << Is btcjam really a better borrowing option than, say, https://www.itau.com.br/creditos-financiamentos/credito/
assbot: Itaú - créditos e financiamentos - crédito ... ( http://bit.ly/19HiBud )
felipelalli: Pierre_Rochard: yes. Itaú is my bank.
felipelalli: Itaú normal interest rate: 7% PER MONTH. My interest rate in Itaú (because I am an old client): 4.8%. BTCJam: 2.8%. It makes a huge difference when you calculate the compound interest per year. ☟︎
felipelalli: But now, BTCJam simply eliminated the free market where the user could choose its own interest rate (and let it free to investors fund or not), and they automagically calculate the interest rate. With this new rule, I can get by 3.5% per month. That is not a huge problem for me, actually, I was using this more like a test. But they simply buried the "service". Even if it was a zombie's forehead shot.
PeterL: asciilifeform: on the topic of browsing lit, have you looked at open access journals like http://www.hindawi.com/ ?
assbot: Hindawi Publishing Corporation ... ( http://bit.ly/19HjHWM )
felipelalli: I'm sure I could set 2% rate or less and my list would be fund, because my reputation in Brazilian bitcoin community is very good. But now I have no choice rather than get 3.5% calculated like magic by them. That's why I was disgusted. I would write an article about that, but after talking with you guys in this channel I was unmotivated.
felipelalli: I had never thought that they did not deserve even taken seriously, but it seems to make sense.
felipelalli: PeterL: what is the rate per month you can get where you live? I heard it is much less than here.
felipelalli: PeterL: sorry, the question was to Pierre_Rochard
Pierre_Rochard: Pierre_Rochard: I think the worst credit cards run for 2% per month, 30 yr fixed rate mortgage with good credit will cost you 0.33% per month
Pierre_Rochard: ehrm felipelalli
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: aha, that's why all the butthurt
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: yes! :)
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: I thought it was a global problem, but I learned here that: 1) there are rich guys (you guys) that really don't care about it. 2) there are guys with rich friends :) 3) your interest rate are ridiculous cheap. BTCJam really don't solve anything to you.
felipelalli: and, of course, 4) there are better investments than BTCJam to you. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: aside one can't actually invest in BTCJam as such.
felipelalli: They could invest on me there. I was a very secure investment, e.g.
felipelalli: So, this: http://blog.btcjam.com/2015/03/19/btcjam-introduces-risk-based-pricing-interest-rates-set-automatically-by-credit-score/ makes me "cry". I ran to qntra.net to read something about that and for my surprise I didn't find anything. But now I understand why. Not fully yet, but I can at least understand your point of view.
assbot: BTCJam Introduces Risk Based Pricing (Interest Rates Set Automatically by Credit Score) | BTCJam Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhcebi )
PeterL: you might be a fine investment, but btcjam is not
felipelalli: But I could easily be found there. And I have personal friends there, that I know it is a secure investment. That's why I only had profit, very few lost.
felipelalli: Actually it was easy to find red flags in the lists. Unfortunately their system does not help that much, but if you are smart, you can see the clues.
PeterL: see, you had wot ouside of btcjam that made those investments worthwhile
felipelalli: Yes! PeterL Exactly.
felipelalli: They were just like a tool to make easy contact 30 friends at the same time, and make it in 5 min. (actually in this 30 friends there were friends of friends, like level 2 in WoT))
felipelalli: And it makes more impersonal and passive. Instead to make a spam asking for money to your family and friends (active and personal), you can just publish the list (passive and impersonal) and anyone can invest if they want, or just ignore. Like 5 people I know personally invest their first 30% and the rest was "friends of friends". It just worked to me because I had a good "outside WoT".
ben_vulpes: a good scammatron has totally legitimate uses and users.
ben_vulpes: well
ben_vulpes: one breed of good scammatrons.
felipelalli: LOL
PeterL: it is easier for scammers to hide if there are legitamate users around them
felipelalli: PeterL: ugly truth.
danielpbarron: felipelalli, get your friends in here
danielpbarron: no reason you guys have to stop lending at your prefered rates
PeterL: do the speak english? ☟︎
felipelalli: PeterL: no, Portuguese.
felipelalli: danielpbarron: I'm trying to convince some of them to use OTC system at least.
ben_vulpes: at the very least they need to be in the WoT
ben_vulpes: for their own continued health.
felipelalli: But did you understand my point of make it automatic, fast, impersonal and passive? It is different. ☟︎
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/users-of-evo-marketplace-btc-e-are-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/
ben_vulpes: all of the above is why btcjam is a scam from the -assets perspective.
ben_vulpes: trust cannot be automatic, is built slowly, must be on personal terms, and contracts are always active.
ben_vulpes: this "passive investment" routine is a holdover from the fiat days.
ben_vulpes: of necessity, it must die.
felipelalli: I am not saying the trust should be automatic or fast. But the funding process.
PeterL: but you can passively invest with a broker who is in the WoT
felipelalli: Like jurov ?
ben_vulpes: funding is as fast as a confirmation.
ben_vulpes: PeterL: who's taking investment?
PeterL: I was thinking like Jurov, yes
felipelalli: He said something like that to me one day.
asciilifeform: PeterL: have you looked at open access journals like http://www.hindawi.com/ ? << even if, through divine intervention, everyone suddenly began to publish there (they won't) - this doesn't solve the 20th century
assbot: Hindawi Publishing Corporation ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhgTdo )
asciilifeform: PeterL: where most of the things i take an interest in actually happened.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do you mean by 'passive investment' ?
PeterL: you just need a couple slave girls with some cameras to tour all teh libraries
asciilifeform: PeterL: see 'ooda loop' discussion
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: something like MPIF
asciilifeform: even aside from the ooda loop, the #1 thing in a library is serendipity
felipelalli: Let me ask one think out of the context: isn't gpg contract useless without some "proof of existence", published in Blockchain, e.g.? ☟︎
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what would be an example of an active investment ?
PeterL: MPIF is sorely lacking in places to put its money
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: allocating capital oneself between MPOE/BBET/BTC
ben_vulpes: am i misusing these terms?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so is your hypothesis that allocating btc between investments is so difficult and/or uninteresting that no one can do it for you for a fee and there still be anything left over to work with ?
asciilifeform is eminently unqualified to comment on the hypothesis itself, if this is it
ben_vulpes: no, my hypothesis is that the current us style of "just stick the money in the market and get returns" is slated for the guillotine under the new regime.
mircea_popescu: ^
PeterL: You don't see a niche for a mutual fund covering MPEx?
ben_vulpes: in practice, i'm unaware of anyone offering to manage btc between MPOE/BBET/NSA/BTC for a fee.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i was thinking about a hypothetical larger world where there are many worthwhile things
ben_vulpes: some day, ideally.
asciilifeform: say, S.USFAT
PeterL: once a few more stocks show up on the exchange
asciilifeform: (rendering various organisms for soap, a growth industry in the near future)
mod6: :D
PeterL: maybe I could run that? pretty simple chemical reaction, really
asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/03/google-adsense-spying.htm << mega-l0l
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhiMqr )
mircea_popescu: what's usfat ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: u.s. fat.
mircea_popescu: lol
PeterL: organisms, like tilapia? http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2015/265160/
assbot: Characterization of the Fatty Acids Present in Wastewaters from Production of Biodiesel Tilapia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhiYpB )
asciilifeform: no, like homo redditicus
mircea_popescu: i know a girl that makes soaps and stuff. she wouldn't touch the coarse stuff.
mircea_popescu: contrary to what they claim in fight club, best fat base is like, various nut oils etc.
asciilifeform: then diesel.
mircea_popescu: maybe.
asciilifeform firmly convinced that there are no entirely useless things in this world
mircea_popescu: oil at 45 a barrel tho...
asciilifeform: not even redditors
ben_vulpes: by the time the corpses are available, they'll have scavenged their own fat prior to dying.
mircea_popescu: how about sitching footballs ?
ben_vulpes: you've seen the auschwitz photos...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there is a hypothesis that this will not happen this time around. because of sudden release of fat-soluble poisons
asciilifeform: that weren't there in '40s
ben_vulpes: oh yeah?
ben_vulpes: i'm unfamiliar with this hypothesis
asciilifeform: aha. has not been tested in practice, afaik
asciilifeform: and i forget who suggested it to me
ben_vulpes: what's the gist, though
ben_vulpes: mustard gas...again?
asciilifeform: the gist is that folks will croak long before they turn auschwitz-thin
asciilifeform: on account of various strange in their american diet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's exactly it. american fat is more like, chemdump
mircea_popescu: everything the liver culdn't cope with, got stored on the thighs
mircea_popescu: and yes it has been tested in practice.
ben_vulpes: blee
mircea_popescu: by me. on actual live womenz.
asciilifeform: and malnutrition turns the organism uniquely underequipped to deal with the released crud.
PeterL: so we need to render and extract the usians before making them into soap
mircea_popescu: not even malnutrition. simple sane diet will make the woman sick, anemic, the works.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what happens, roughly ?
ben_vulpes: an exercise in slimming down a rubenesque babe lead to...liver prazlems?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all the classical symptoms of light poisoning.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what was diet prior?
mircea_popescu: "us food"
PeterL: us "food"
mircea_popescu: also.
ben_vulpes: "us" "food"
ben_vulpes: (for symmetry)
felipelalli: "us" food
asciilifeform: 'eat recycled food!' (TM)
mircea_popescu: "us "food"" technically. first set because answer to q, 2nd set because well...
ben_vulpes: heh.
mircea_popescu: but you can readily notice the pure chemical osmotic source of "weight gain" when the woman eats 50% more calories and loses weight.
ben_vulpes: body building fat reserves to park toxic crap in?
mircea_popescu: in general, you gotta overfeed to lose weight. because the only way the body is even touching some of that stuff is if the liver is full of all sorts of micronutrients to render it with
mircea_popescu: yup
ben_vulpes: what are the limiting reactants?
mircea_popescu: then after a year or two as the body re-learns to associate food with micronutrients - all sorts of urges, as it approaches various layers of problems
asciilifeform: almost sounds like the '80s 'chelation' theory
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i honestly think it's exactly accurate.
asciilifeform suspected but did not know
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i dunno dood. milk's a big thing. various fats, various vegetals.
PeterL: I'm guessing colorful vegtables help?
mircea_popescu: one chick went through a chickpea phase where she ate > 100 cans over about a year. half of it within the first season.
mircea_popescu: "what do you want to eat today ?" "chickpeas"
asciilifeform looks for al schwartz's table of plant toxins; can't find at the moment, but recalls that chickpeas were near the top for something or other
mircea_popescu: i think it was either a protein or fat that was needed for god knows what. because phase passed.
mircea_popescu: sadly i don't have the patience or the tools to actually get into the microchemistry of it
asciilifeform: ;;google lathyrism
gribble: Lathyrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathyrism>; Lathyrism: a neurotoxic disease.: <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6422318>; Lathyrism | Doctor | Patient.co.uk: <http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Lathyrism.htm>
asciilifeform: hm not chickpeas
mircea_popescu: im 100% sure this is where all the "Fad diet" stuff comes from too.
mircea_popescu: people still stuck in the soup get at the margins various such desperate cries from body.
mircea_popescu: some make it through
mircea_popescu: hence the idiocy of "eat nothing else but ...."
mircea_popescu: really it should be "leave the states and eat ... to your fill".
mircea_popescu: but o may gawd, leaving THE COUNTRY, unthinkable.
ben_vulpes: STEAK
ben_vulpes: VINO
mircea_popescu: i have no experience with men.
asciilifeform wonders if anyone ever polled, who would leave if could
asciilifeform: or whether such a thing even makes sense
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just sayin', doesn't occur to them.
asciilifeform: doesn't occur !?!
ben_vulpes: nope.
asciilifeform: how many folks in usa went on an airplane even once? did it not occur to not buy return ticket?
asciilifeform: even as thought experiment
PeterL: this is the best country evar, why would I leave?
ben_vulpes: "but muh jerb"
mircea_popescu: PeterL it has its disadvantages.
asciilifeform: 'Kazakhstan! greatest country in the world! all other countrys are run by little girls...' (tm)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places". ☟︎☟︎
PeterL: plus, most of them would say they *could* leave, if they wanted to
ben_vulpes: lol
ben_vulpes: i *would* leave if i *could*
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is not accidental. folks who travel from usa to english-speaking (or most western eu in general) aren't actually leaving the empire
asciilifeform: and hence 'not real places' is factual
mircea_popescu: which is why stuff like "putin doesn't understand how thw world works" can be said with a straight face
mircea_popescu: for a good chunk of the audience, this is actually so. it's not even a real country.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, because they stick to the touristy traps anywhere. stopped for coffee earlier at whorehouse cafe, table across two lost derps with ipad propped on "south america on a shoestring". muy confused.
asciilifeform: 'Ist dis Nazi Land so good? Would you leave it if you could? Ja, dis Nazi Land ist good! We would leave if we could.' ('der fuhrer's face', 1942)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: oh hey can we do the whorehouse cafe?
mircea_popescu: haha, re that, must has animaniacs
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes sure.
asciilifeform: that was a 'donald duck'
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk
assbot: Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhmK2g )
mircea_popescu: remake.
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzH1iaKVsBM << classic
assbot: Donald Duck der Nazi - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhmX5r )
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk << "americans ruin everything" - lady v
assbot: Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhnxQO )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: "but muh jerb" << when you open a metal shop in #b-a, perhaps i can go and work sweeping floor there.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes lol
ben_vulpes: myeah she's a chuckle.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it'll probably be well outside of city limits
ben_vulpes: nearer that southern port city
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nknPYKw2QM
assbot: U.S. Army - Booby Traps - Banned Cartoons - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJqk7y )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062798 << you know ? just as unthinkable as the http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063368 ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 21:00:49; asciilifeform: the option of not having the bugs is presented as not even thinkable.
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 02:22:03; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places".
mircea_popescu: lots of "unthinkables" needed to keep the soviets going.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062825 << how the fuck is this open source. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 21:47:01; decimation: the developer in question had already made a deal with apple to publish the app apparently. I couldn't even compile my own version unsigned for my own personal use
mircea_popescu: apple "open" : we'll give you some fiction to read while the thing boots ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms has a term of art for it, 'tivoization'
mircea_popescu: mhm
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062860 << except a)nobody trusts it and b) it doesn't actually trust anyone. lots of scammy devs make it on account of w/e fee. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 21:56:58; decimation: on the other hand, perhaps apple is just trying to 'enumerate goodness' in its 'forced wot'
mircea_popescu: heck, zinga still exists on apple right ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062877 << since no more welfare, so idiots either starve or slave. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 21:59:40; nubbins`: *i* won't buy it, but since when does the market cater to rational actors?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062896 << this is kinda how the illegal racing world works. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:02:30; pete_dushenski: buy a honda, insert own custom ferrari engine
cazalla: felipelalli: I ran to qntra.net to read something about that and for my surprise I didn't find anything. But now I understand why. Not fully yet, but I can at least understand your point of view. <<< fwiw i would never lend bitcoin to people on btcjam regardless of their ability to pay back, i'd never use the site to borrow either, so i guess it's not so difficult to see why i would not write a story on it either
cazalla: felipelalli, if you only use it to borrow, i don't really see the problem with you using it, but i'd never lend
mircea_popescu: how are silk road copycats supposed to make enough to run away with if you won't give the pillheads "loans" yo ?
mircea_popescu: think of the children!
ben_vulpes: we've been looking into the apple "enterprise deployment" story of late
ben_vulpes: always keeping in mind that it is a rug
mircea_popescu: ^
ben_vulpes: and the ghost of steve is yet prepared to rip it out from beneath us
mircea_popescu: i briefly considered adding an apple apps thing for s.mg
mircea_popescu: the idea... died.
ben_vulpes: apple is pretty much anathema to the #b-a approach to compute.
mircea_popescu: or to any approach that includes anyone but apple making money.
ben_vulpes: one of the reasons i'm not targeting macos for RI builds.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062973 << isn't that how that kid got shot with a nailgun by andreas antonoderpopolous ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:31:05; decimation: sure, let me know if you find an open repo with all academic pubs present, updated regularly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47650 @ 0.00027195 = 12.9584 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062976 << in this vein : http://40.media.tumblr.com/982abc36543d4b8bab3d12582b23fab6/tumblr_mw5pbmKA9N1t16d43o1_1280.jpg ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:33:07; nubbins`: fwiw "everything is online now" people generally miss out on a broad spectrum of opportunity
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhr7dM )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminiscent of anthill chick
mircea_popescu: notrly. this is fun.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063000 << alf was wikibinging before it was cool. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:40:21; asciilifeform: most of the time when i go to that library it isn't even for a specific rational purpose
danielpbarron: in comments for that disney nazi thing: "Who im german and I dont like this we are nice and hittler whs the only bad german"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063019 << nah, only some of them. we're ignoring most of it : http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:51:01; PeterL: new #B-A need: print off all the articles and store in a library
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdlojA )
mircea_popescu: but i can envisage the day when a) all science is published via b-a, and to read... get in wot
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063033 << at least originally. prolly split off on its own thing once it gets big. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:55:01; PeterL: would deedbot be a suitable place to publish scientific research?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063048 << same mechanbism as to produce the good code separately. sign and wot. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:59:27; asciilifeform: we don't have a mechanism for producing the good stuff separately, yet.
asciilifeform: nono not that part
asciilifeform: the what-do-they-eat.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063058 << that's basically gossipd. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:04:58; trinque: asciilifeform: I have long wanted a system where member nodes can all publish wads 'o gpg stuff, peers don't know the contents of the wad, give each-other redundancy
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eat ?
mircea_popescu: what is this, the future ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: geniuses don't eat
mircea_popescu: geniuses starve.
asciilifeform: [insert army of the dead scene from 'lord of rings']
asciilifeform: ^ best geniuses are undead
mircea_popescu: looky here : ALL the problems of modern academia, from faux psychiatry used to cover up for govt failure to faux "earth sciences" used to cover up for govt failure to the diploma mill etc
felipelalli: Thank you cazalla
mircea_popescu: they ALL stem from the mistaken idea that creators should be able to eat, and the typiocally american (ie, fucktarded and grossly ignorant) solutions attempted.
mircea_popescu: the moment creation is +EV, all the narcisists flood in and destroy thinking.
asciilifeform: they ALL stem from the mistaken idea that creators should be able to eat << mircea_popescu suggests they should photosynthesize ?
mircea_popescu: stick with the day job.
mircea_popescu: thinking can never be a job.
danielpbarron: felipelalli, are you familiar with deedbot?
cazalla: felipelalli, also i don't place much faith in how they identify people, a driver's licence, electricity bill.. worth just as much as newly created wot identity with no feedback.. plus the sort of person who needs to borrow $500 is the sort of person who would lift things such as a drivers licence from parents/friends/partners wallet anyway
mircea_popescu: all the schmuckodon in "bitcoin business" comes from the completely irrational expectations of all these schmucks that they can earn a living "being" "ceo"s.
felipelalli: danielpbarron: no, I'm sorry.
ben_vulpes: cazalla, felipelalli: identity is not the important bit. trustworthiness is. no drivers license or electric bill proves trustworthiness.
asciilifeform: actual ceo also earns a living
danielpbarron: felipelalli, it's this -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063261 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 01:59:35; felipelalli: Let me ask one think out of the context: isn't gpg contract useless without some "proof of existence", published in Blockchain, e.g.?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not for BEING.
mircea_popescu: he has an actual day job.
cazalla: ben_vulpes, yeah, summed it up better than how i explained it
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: I can't agree more.
asciilifeform: but, typically, not 'day job' in the 'schmuck who will starve after N paycheques skipped' sense
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevertheless.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how many is N to you?
ben_vulpes: 2?
ben_vulpes: 80?
mircea_popescu: he doesn't have to starve at all. he just has to not expect to suport self by singing-songwriting.
asciilifeform: any integer N meant here
felipelalli: danielpbarron: is that? https://github.com/bitrecruiter/deedBot os something else?
assbot: bitrecruiter/deedBot · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhtxcj )
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: even the CEO will drain his accounts after...10? 20? years without income.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how long it would take for herr buffett to drain ?
asciilifeform: soros?
mircea_popescu: felipelalli http://trilema.com/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets-updated
assbot: Page not found pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhtzkj )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no he won't lol.
mircea_popescu: no sane ceo actuallyhas to work, ever.
felipelalli: thx.
ben_vulpes: the americans "CEO" on hookers and blow.
asciilifeform: no sane ceo actuallyhas to work, ever << so then!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not because he is geniuz!
felipelalli: as a bitcoin gosthbusters are you guys are, is this https://github.com/maraoz/proofofexistence scam?
assbot: maraoz/proofofexistence · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhtHQK )
mircea_popescu: because he is wealthy. different thing entirely.
mircea_popescu: !s proofofexistence
assbot: 7 results for 'proofofexistence' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=proofofexistence
ben_vulpes: "proof of existence" << sad story of not being in the wot and ergo not mattering.
mircea_popescu: pretty much that.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063080 << i honestly don't give a shit about those 1000tb. for very similar reasons as ^ ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:10:54; asciilifeform: since mircea_popescu is out, i will fill in for him and observe that library of alexandria burning is no loss, when cockroaches evolve and replace man they will rediscover everything.
mircea_popescu: as discussed in the pseudoscience bit : unless you folks start quoting it to me, it's just another bit of anglowank, couldn't care less.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, neal stephenson (in fiction) proposed a pill against 'the moment creation is +EV, all the narcisists flood in' - monasteries
mircea_popescu: experimentally doesn't work.
asciilifeform: -ev, but no day job, you pay with pain
asciilifeform: and obscurity
mircea_popescu: colleges started out as monasteries.
mircea_popescu: and before those, knighthoods
mircea_popescu: both failed, spectacularly so.
mircea_popescu: took a while, but i suspect more due to slow comms at the time.
ben_vulpes: gotta breed.
ben_vulpes: more importantly, hammer idiocy out of each succesive generation.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in stephenson's world, they didn't need to. collected unwanted children from outside.
asciilifeform: and grew them with discipline
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063096 << yet another google failure at mattering in social. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:17:58; asciilifeform: and before that, they glommed it into their idiot 'google groups' thing
ben_vulpes: yes, i recall.
ben_vulpes: who though will start this monastery today?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this modesty... fuck that. collect the most desirable children from outside : teenaged women with big tits.
mircea_popescu: fuck the outside.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i wasn't suggesting it as a practical recipe. more of an overall reagent.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: collect the most desirable children from outside : teenaged women with big tits << building harem then, not mathematical monastery, i take it.
asciilifeform: we already know how harems built
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063103 << this. they hire "the best", ye, young schmucks. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:19:31; decimation: I doubt 99% of folks inside google even know/care
decimation: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/20/394340722/john-urschel-ravens-offensive-lineman-publishes-math-paper < big black guy who plays linemen for the baltimore ravens just published a mathmatics paper entitled "A Cascadic Multigrid Algorithm for Computing the Fiedler Vector"
assbot: John Urschel, Ravens Offensive Lineman, Publishes Math Paper : The Two-Way : NPR ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhuZeI )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just making the point that if you're going for your reagent, make the relative situation obvious : the outside world is despised.
decimation: there's some genetic intelligence for you
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the outside world is despised << in the book, this was underscored on every page. and the degeneracy depicted also.
mircea_popescu: well then why take its dregs ?
ben_vulpes: there's a time tested model for this, and it's the noble family.
mircea_popescu: what, are we puritans ?
ben_vulpes: worse, americans with a do-gooder complex.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you mean, as in latium, then note octavianus didn't adopt random orphans a la dick tracy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wasn't specified as 'dregs' but as children who liked to think and weren't especially missed when inducted
mircea_popescu: take the other ones.
mircea_popescu: like army. take the children women weep for. or men, in this case.
mircea_popescu: let them rebel over it, and be mowed down periodically.
asciilifeform: decimation: re: footballist and maths << napoleon has at least one theorem to his credit
mircea_popescu: that way, at least you know why you're bothering.
ben_vulpes: by their own stolen children.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes sipahi is the turkish term.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: janissary corps? why not
mircea_popescu: but with tits.
mircea_popescu: tits make everything better. and also worse.
ben_vulpes: sipahi << yeah. that berber book's really good.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how did octavianus meet his adoptees?
mircea_popescu: exactly like we met. in the forum.
ben_vulpes: adoptee*
mircea_popescu: how else are you going to meet people ?
mircea_popescu: in the fucking bus ?
ben_vulpes: here we are again at the "no people outside the forum" checkpoint.
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: if you look at it, the entire history of rome, from kingdom to empire, was basically this : they had a set of benches under some trees somewhere
mircea_popescu: and some guys went to sit. and well... who sits where /
mircea_popescu: this has to be resolved, this question.
mircea_popescu: and it was.
mircea_popescu: ten million dead in galia.
decimation: ben_vulpes: no, my hypothesis is that the current us style of "just stick the money in the market and get returns" is slated for the guillotine under the new regime. < the problem isn't the passive returns, the problem is that schmoes off the street can invest
mircea_popescu: three vultures lost in the east.
mircea_popescu: etc.
decimation: anything that is 'mass adopted' is nearly by definition some kind of scam
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> three vultures lost in the east. << i do not get this reference.
asciilifeform: the 'day job' thing is more complicated than looks on the surface. a medieval serf, for instance, served for a much smaller fraction of his waking time than i or ben_vulpes do
asciilifeform: (elementary calculation re: taxation)
ben_vulpes: decimation: "schmoes" << that they have anything to invest in the first place is due to the american democracy/communism thing, from there we quickly hit the "one day bitcoin will make us all royals, and when can i lop the peasants heads off again?" checkpoint
asciilifeform: or even a generation ago, rough 'cost of life' in civilized works was a fraction of today's
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes at some point a roman army was defeated, a total of three aquillae (legion header) were lost. the romans spent a century trying to get them back, at one point famously excavating a few square miles o land
felipelalli: why deedbot- is rejecting my key? I sent http://pastebin.com/R0cK3111 and it says: "Bad URL or network outage." I also tried http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=R0cK3111 with the same effect
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: SKS 1.1.5 Comment: Hostname: pgp - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhwXMa )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhwY2w )
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: pastebin is banned.
mircea_popescu: it is ?!
ben_vulpes: yes.
mircea_popescu: trinque can it accept any url yet ?
ben_vulpes: lf/cr idiocy.
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: felipelalli use dpaste.com ad interim
ben_vulpes: well i've no idea how trinque's configured deedbot-, that's not my problem.
felipelalli: I also tried to paste my key there and I was disconnected due to "flood"
mircea_popescu: well yes, you're not supposed to do that.
ben_vulpes: i'm just pointing out that pastebin's not allowed in these parts.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: so update the blog entry.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: re vultures < aaah
mircea_popescu: which entry ?
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: thank you! I'll try dpaste.com
felipelalli: http://trilema.com/2015/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets-updated/
assbot: [undata] Deed system for #bitcoin-assets, updated. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhxptC )
mircea_popescu: !up odyjm
felipelalli: >> 1. Bot idles in chan. Upon receipt of command including pastebin link,
mircea_popescu: ah. the spec doesn't change by the implementation yo. the other way around.
mircea_popescu: also, that's a generic term :p
ben_vulpes: trinque's doing a major launch this week, i think we'll be lucky to get much of a peep out of him at all
mircea_popescu: aite.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: interesting parallel
mircea_popescu: o you two work together was it
ben_vulpes: taxation you, i trinque pay to la serenissima is rather small
mircea_popescu: for this reason.
asciilifeform: together in the sense of usaschwitz
ben_vulpes: definitely in comparison to that required to survive in fiatland
asciilifeform has not yet met ben_vulpes in the flesh
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, no not this year.
ben_vulpes: he has his thing, and i mine.
mircea_popescu: aha
ben_vulpes: we live a few blocks from each other, drink each others wine, fuck each others girls
ben_vulpes: etc
ben_vulpes: (and no, not really the latter)
asciilifeform: ^ that was trinque ?
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: no lucky with dpaste.com as well "Bad URL or network outage."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063116 << wasn't originally ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:23:07; trinque: "don't be evil" has to be the cheesiest wink at the camera of all time
asciilifeform: i mean, ben_vulpes and trinque live a few blocks .. ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yeah, the thread kicked off at "<ben_vulpes> trinque's doing a major launch this week, i think we'll be lucky to get much of a peep out of him at all"
mircea_popescu: felipelalli are you using the raw or the html version ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha got it
felipelalli: I tried the raw first, I'll try the other
mircea_popescu: raw should work.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: now i recall, there was a thread where one of you asked the other for a smoke in-channel
mircea_popescu: felipelalli do it in here so i can see wtf ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: taxation /i/ speak of is deedbot, nsa, phundation
mircea_popescu: !up deedbot-
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ah, i was thinking of the other taxation, where goons come and lift a penny out of every 3 i make
felipelalli: http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH
assbot: dpaste: 3EAX9QH ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhyguo )
felipelalli: I also tried http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhyjqj )
ben_vulpes: no, i'm talking that which your lord and sovereign demands of you.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063127 << perelman :D ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:28:17; asciilifeform: where is soviet physics? mathematics ?
mircea_popescu: felipelalli bare url wouldn't conceivably work. gotta deedbot- ur;
ben_vulpes: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhyDoI )
deedbot-: imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14
felipelalli: how?
ben_vulpes: pahaha
felipelalli: O_O
ben_vulpes: jesus, you guys.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063130 << fwiw, i believe this "generative years" is bullshit. it only makes sense in ossified society, because older guys have stupid shit to waste their tiem with. otherwise, in catastrophic situation, age does not matter. how old was Aeneas ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:28:44; asciilifeform: the folks not dead of drink have been driving cabs in nyc for so long as to have put their generative years firmly behind.
asciilifeform: aeneas was not a mathematician.
asciilifeform: it works more like sport.
mircea_popescu: how old was he of syracuse ?
asciilifeform: who, archimedes ?
mircea_popescu: at least five over 50, but sure, archimedes.
asciilifeform: over 50 << when did the thing they were remembered for ?
mircea_popescu: archimedes was well over 40 when he proofed that crown/
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: are you in assbot's l2?
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: I hope so.
ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot felipelalli
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user felipelalli: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/felipelalli | http://w.b-a.link/user/felipelalli
mircea_popescu: newton was what, 52 ?
ben_vulpes: okay so you try it
ben_vulpes: deedbot-: <link hurr>
asciilifeform: thing is, newton's 52 is not the same as american slave's 52
mircea_popescu: for the reason i stated!
asciilifeform: certain kinds of life destroy the mind.
felipelalli: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhzfLl )
deedbot-: imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14
ben_vulpes: so there ya go
felipelalli: So, private messages does not work like assbot
ben_vulpes: ,next
mircea_popescu: the delusion of "stability' and cultural insularity destroy the mind.
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: did you prepend with 'deedbot-:' ?
felipelalli: no
felipelalli: ah, I got it.
asciilifeform: actually waking up to alarm clock and sitting in an office guaranteed to destroy, regardless of what else
mircea_popescu: doubt this matters.
asciilifeform: destroys body, too
mircea_popescu: no, that's not it. theknowledge that there's going to be food at the supermarket destroys.
felipelalli: well, I'm just following wrong instructions! ;) ahhah
mircea_popescu: the notion that one shouldn't chat up the passing twelve year old, destroys.
asciilifeform: by this token every hunter-gatherer should be newton
felipelalli: now I'll try to publish a signed document.
ben_vulpes: deedbot-: help
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only the unsuccessful ones that yet survive.
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: well check it out you got help eventually
ben_vulpes: trinque's a busy man. it'll get hammered into shape...eventually.
ben_vulpes: "two weeks!"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063148 << it was quite excellent. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:31:32; pete_dushenski: i'm generally curious about the merits of their decade and change of research
mircea_popescu: mostly because early form of what was later copied by russians.
mircea_popescu: "monastery" of sorts.
asciilifeform: so there we go
asciilifeform: monasteries - work.
asciilifeform: keeps the narcissomaniacs out, etc.
asciilifeform: the occasional impalement also helps
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform listen, "works" in this context is you saying "so there we go, c works"
mircea_popescu: sure it works, if you want the suckiest thing that'll still do the job.
ben_vulpes: catch y'all later.
felipelalli: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/21D0Q3X.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhzWUK )
deedbot-: rejected: 1
asciilifeform: works in the sense of 'were so l337 that we're still cribbing off their tech notebook and can never hope to match'
mircea_popescu: not so.
mircea_popescu: just look at enigma machine to get out of that infatuation.
asciilifeform: enigma was built by a pole!
mircea_popescu: look at what they thought radar is.
asciilifeform: reich had perfectly passable radar
mircea_popescu: look at the stupid rocket-planor thing. etc. derpy as it gets.
asciilifeform: did not, iirc, have the klystron though
mircea_popescu: passable 1!?
felipelalli: why my doc was rejected?
decimation: enigma was broken by the poles
asciilifeform: http://www.ventnorradar.co.uk/Germ.htm
assbot: German Radar ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhAk5z )
asciilifeform: decimation: also designed by a pole
asciilifeform: in 1920s, iirc
asciilifeform: as commercial product
asciilifeform: nothing german about it
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063179 << there's thirty million helgas out there, get your ass on tinder. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:41:48; pete_dushenski: i really don't know any other german speakers with whom to converse
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing but the fact they used it.
asciilifeform: sure
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: do you know why my doc was rejected?
asciilifeform: incidentally none of the allied crypto (other than vernam, aka otp, which was also used in germany) was in any way superior to enigma
mircea_popescu: at the time.
mircea_popescu: your statement was, and i quote, ' we're still cribbing off their tech notebook and can never hope to match'
asciilifeform: ah
decimation: asciilifeform: no, it was more the fact that turing et.al. had the pole's cryptanalysis to crib off of
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, we're not literally stuck with 1930s tech. for the most part. organic chemistry has not really moved very far since
asciilifeform: folks are still wearing the same synthetic fibres used in german uniforms, made in same way
asciilifeform: and so forth
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063191 << prolly should read http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/ and work the examples out by hand. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 00:14:17; felipelalli: thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices.
assbot: How to make money on the Internet while pretending you know what you're talking about and accumulating a legion of mindless followers - for fun and profit! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhALwS )
decimation: german acrylic paints
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform has moved way far, you kidding ?! organic is more advanced as to what it was in 1930 than computing.
mircea_popescu: shit, state of the art 1930 plastics was linoleum and ebonite.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of basic techniques, rather than products
mircea_popescu: even basic techniques.
asciilifeform: i'll let PeterL settle this one when he returns
mircea_popescu: we have mass fucking spectrometers that work!
mircea_popescu: recall that article about the new antibiotic found in soil sample ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interestingly, pretty much nobody used these for the first 20 or so years they existed
felipelalli: my sister works with mass spectrometers.
mircea_popescu: cause no computers.
mircea_popescu: you can'treally use them by hand.
asciilifeform: because everything they can do, traditional analytic chem can also do
mircea_popescu: mno.
asciilifeform: but takes craft
mircea_popescu: because nobody uses car w/o gasoline.
asciilifeform: this also
asciilifeform: but my observation holds
felipelalli: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/21D0Q3X.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkxZfE )
deedbot-: rejected: 1
asciilifeform: you don't actually -need- gas chromatograph for anything, in the sense of experiment being entirely unworkable without it
asciilifeform: it merely saves time, effort, skill, cost.
asciilifeform: ditto mass spec
mircea_popescu: you don't need rocks for anything either, can just throw your own shit
asciilifeform: think this way: consider the palpable progress in chemical industry 1900-40
asciilifeform: vs 1970-now
asciilifeform: (lacking spectrometers, etc. vs. having)
mircea_popescu: and yes experiment is entirely unworkable without it. there's no nazi genome sequence variant. know why ?
mircea_popescu: there's no nazi fold@home. know why ?
mircea_popescu: etc.
asciilifeform: well sure
asciilifeform: didn't say computer was entirely useless
mircea_popescu: right. quantity has a quality all of its own.
mircea_popescu: this, mind, isn't jus comptuer. computer is the adjunct.
asciilifeform: but going back in archives, i am perpetually astonished at what was accomplished by men who never saw not only computer but plastic bag.
decimation: the germans had the first programmable electromechanical computer by the way
mircea_popescu: or zipper. sure.
asciilifeform: decimation: aha, konrad zuse and 'plankalkule'
decimation: aye
decimation: the nazi gov. was too dumb to fund it though, or apply it to obvious uses
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063202 << check it out, Pierre_Rochard gets the cookie for having asked the right question. i finally understand what felipelalli's usecase actually was. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 01:06:05; felipelalli: Itaú normal interest rate: 7% PER MONTH. My interest rate in Itaú (because I am an old client): 4.8%. BTCJam: 2.8%. It makes a huge difference when you calculate the compound interest per year.
asciilifeform: not dumb per se. just thought 'thinkers should have day jobs'
mircea_popescu: "i live in a shit country, borrowing directly from bezzle is way better than going through local banks"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me put it another way, maybe it washes better.
mircea_popescu: before you get to think you get to have "ideas" you must do sufficient useful work to support yourself with. whether you do it in a year or a decade or over rest of your life, your choice.
mircea_popescu: but people who can not support self are not fit to think,
danielpbarron: felipelalli, you're signing with a different key than the one you registered with
mircea_popescu: much like women that can't cook aren't fit to marry.
asciilifeform: guess herr zuse didn't know how to both invent first computer -and- self-support
asciilifeform: so they didn't really need computer.
mircea_popescu: i am not going to be swayed by examples, for the following reason : of course you're going to lose something.
mircea_popescu: this is a given : no matter which way you go, you lose something.
asciilifeform wasn't even trying to sway anyone. but must point out the dismal history.
mircea_popescu: if you persecute gays, you fuck up turing. if you don't, you end up with that transhumanist singer-songwriter with the turkey hairdo schmuck.
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: so, this given : i dun care who dun like it, i'd rather have silence than the motherfucking deluge of shit
asciilifeform: i'll explain what was meant. generally i'm in favour of less arbeit macht frei for everyone.
mircea_popescu: "with some good things in it"
asciilifeform: shoot the shit producers, problem solved
felipelalli: danielpbarron: my company key. I'm sorry!
mircea_popescu: the men holding the rifles work on z80s.
mircea_popescu: nice find dpb.
asciilifeform: i don't see the inevitable dichotomy between 'world flooded with shit' and 'arbeit macht frei'
mircea_popescu: maybe you have a point there.
mircea_popescu: fortunately, i am not in a position to make this call. for which i am thankful.
asciilifeform: to put it from own perspective, i'm not sure what serenissima wins from me spending most of every day working with winblows virii
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-01-2015#994371 << nope :D ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-01-2015 00:52:58; asciilifeform: and am i the only one who actually checks sigs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least formally this irritates me, because it's the ancient "la ce-mi serveste mie radicalurile" sophomore complaint.
asciilifeform: what was this
mircea_popescu: how the fuck should i know, and what difference does it make you don't.
asciilifeform: (i can guess)
mircea_popescu: "what's the use of square rooting to me!"
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/la-ce-imi-serveste-mie-radicalurile/
assbot: La ce imi serveste mie radicalurile ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhDerd )
asciilifeform: square rooting, though, i can entirely see
asciilifeform: let's focus on interesting people for a moment. kepler, say. spent a good chunk of his time at day job - astrology.
mircea_popescu: the burning question, however, is why do you think your seeing is the pivot of this matter.
asciilifeform: this is why trying to show more objective example
mircea_popescu: let me tell you a story, put this into perspective.
mircea_popescu: at my day job, i am a manager. it's what i do. or used to, b. b., but w/e.
asciilifeform: we don't win from kepler's day job
mircea_popescu: if an underlying comes to me with "here's the problem, what should we do", i fire him.
mircea_popescu: the proper form is, "here's the problem, here are 3 solutions, which do we pick", and he should fucking know this by now.
mircea_popescu: it would seem to me you are managing like an illusionist not like a manager, which is to say, comparing with some sort of null hypothesis / god's footsteps / whatever.
mircea_popescu: this is just not how things work.
felipelalli: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2VN28A5.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkzSsE )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
trinque: hey lookie there
felipelalli: wow, this is perfect.
trinque: did it all by himself
mircea_popescu waves at trinque
trinque: holy fuck I step away for a minute :D
trinque: sup guys
asciilifeform: wasn't trying to describe a management method, but simply banal observation that kepler's day job (forget mine) is to be counted on the -sad- part of the ledger
mircea_popescu: but this is a management discussion.
trinque: felipelalli: bad sig before?
danielpbarron: "I love ass channel. Ditto." << the deeded message btw
mircea_popescu: "what should do" is management just like "what voltage" is e e.
felipelalli: trinque: I forgot to use -u ED5CDE14
trinque: felipelalli: that will do it.
felipelalli: and it was using my company's key Walltime
trinque: no problemo, glad it worked for ya
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how much irrelevant drudgery is the right amount? would we have more newtoniana if he had broken rocks at butugychag for p % of his day ?
mircea_popescu: trinque e) any url!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why do you expect this to be knowable!
mircea_popescu: think in terms of women, easier to think. "is this the right woman for me, for my life ?"
asciilifeform: i say 0. but mircea_popescu, i think, says p is a positive integer
mircea_popescu: wtf sort of inquiry is this!
felipelalli: the doc was accepted, but and now?
trinque: pastebin is not banned
trinque: raw urls
mircea_popescu: aha kk.
trinque: consider, the page has shitloads of html, is not raw text...
mircea_popescu: could i get trilema.com/deed.txt accepted ?
trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah np
mircea_popescu: ah coolness.
mircea_popescu: well, back to your launch lol.
trinque: launch is ready!
trinque: week early, one man band
trinque: hair almost still intact
felipelalli: trinque: now deedbot- will contact me sending the URL to blockchain published doc?
trinque: felipelalli: heh no, I will.
mircea_popescu: lol
decimation: mpi-fg-koeln.mpg.de/pu/mpifg_book/mpifg_bd_36.pdf > " Einen Antrag zur Förderung einer elektronischen Nachfolgeversion der Z-3, den sein Mit- arbeiter Elektroingenieur Helmut Schreyer stellte, lehnte die deutsche Reichsregierung als »nicht kriegswichtig« ab (Petzold 1985: 316). " They tried to get the nazi gov to pay for the advancement of the Z-3, but it was deemed "not war-worthy"
trinque: felipelalli: shall be at deedbot.org in 5min+next_block
felipelalli: trinque: are you the dwarf behind him, han? :)
asciilifeform: decimation: i'm not certain they were wrong
trinque: felipelalli: I'll have you know I am of middling height!
mircea_popescu: in the end, the z's were not really useful past psychology, were they ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you mean the v-s?
felipelalli: !rate trinque 1 "the dwarf behind deedbot"
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e23f5164e2b13006
mircea_popescu: ah yes, the v's.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is z-3 ?!
trinque: felipelalli: lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: zuse's computer
decimation: zuse's computer
mircea_popescu: ah nm me.
asciilifeform: built out of phone exchange relays, in his mother's kitchen, iirc
decimation: it was electromechanical, not purely electric
mircea_popescu: right, referenced above, exactly. i lost a thread.
asciilifeform: ;;google plankalkül
gribble: Plankalkül - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankalk%C3%BCl>; Plankalkul | computer language | Encyclopedia Britannica: <http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/725632/Plankalkul>; Konrad Zuse - ACM Digital Library: <http://dl.acm.org/ft_gateway.cfm?id=290591&type=pdf>
decimation: as I recall, colossus was the first fully electric computer, built by Flowers at the proto-gchq
asciilifeform: not fully electric
asciilifeform: had paper roll.
felipelalli: trinque: why only 6 docs? Is that a new service, isn't it used that much or it is only the current day?
decimation: aye, I linked a movie of a replica running earlier, will dig it up. I saw it in person actually, was quite impressive
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063215 <<< note the important takeaway here. nothing keeps people in other places with shit banks from being intelligent, getting in wot, becoming part of the actual bitcoin marketplace. there's people here from all over the world. over time, a low effort / consumer thing like btcjam HAS TO devolve into the typical check advance / spam loan operation. ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 01:26:33; felipelalli: and, of course, 4) there are better investments than BTCJam to you.
trinque: felipelalli: there was a previous iteration which I will soon dump the history into the present incarnation
mircea_popescu: there are market forces pushing things certain ways and into certain niches, invisible hand and al lthat.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063235 << there really isn't much requirement to speak any particular language or anything. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 01:50:53; PeterL: do the speak english?
mircea_popescu: the beauty of the wot system is that it readily fragments, and whoever bridges bridges.
mircea_popescu: felipelalli has the opportunity to become a sort of speaker for the dead as it were, for a certain set of dead.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063240 << actually, yes, i do. do you understand why they did that ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 01:52:03; felipelalli: But did you understand my point of make it automatic, fast, impersonal and passive? It is different.
felipelalli: lol mircea_popescu
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: no, may I know why?
mircea_popescu: well yes : suppose they have 500 users, which is about where intel puts it.
mircea_popescu: now, out of those 500, there's like ... 2 ike you. your "wot added value" is say 10 each.
mircea_popescu: there's another 48 dudes who are kinda derpy but still useful, their avg "wot added value is 1 each.
mircea_popescu: that's it. the 500 sums up to 70 value.
mircea_popescu: if they change it like they did, willy nilly it's 0.02 per, which comes to... 100. which is more.
mircea_popescu: in short : you were so diluted by idiots you didn't even realise your sum total human effort was worth less than a systematic, spammy approach to things.
mircea_popescu: sure, to you going from 10 to 0.2 is a terrible loss.
mircea_popescu: but for them, going from a 70 aggregate to a 100 aggregate is a net gain.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: well thought out.
mircea_popescu: and so then you leave, and so they lost like, one of the two guys that actually did something, and that's the end of it.
mircea_popescu: which, again, is why things go certain ways, invisible hand and all that.
mircea_popescu: economics is not fanfiction.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: amazing reasoning.
mircea_popescu: visible across the whole spectrum, how do you think myspace went from selling for a billion to turner to selling for 18 mn or w/e it sold off to.
mircea_popescu: and this is incidentally why i said earlier that they are not a business in the first place. it doesn't fucking matter what "others think". others don'tthink, others bray. thinking is above. and the thinking is, it takes two days for them to lose half the userbase that matters.
mircea_popescu: this is not a business.
mircea_popescu: it's an accident, and from the equity perspective, it's a disaster waiting to happen.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: it is a pitty because it was (a kind of - or has potential to be) useful.
felipelalli: *pity
mircea_popescu: yeah well...
mircea_popescu: anyway, as to the interest rates, there was a discussion recently, and no, business rates aren't per month, you want to pay what, 3ish% a year or some shit.
felipelalli: this what they call APR
decimation: the 10 year treasuries are just under 2% in usd
mircea_popescu: apr is a consumer concept.
decimation: this tends to be a benchmark for those who are fronting money for business
mircea_popescu: we're talking corporate debentures here.
felipelalli: but in Brazil we are used to use per month. Maybe because per year would be ridiculous huge.
mircea_popescu: well also because your country just collapsed
mircea_popescu: for the howeverth time.
decimation: people do business in loans per month?
felipelalli: yes
mircea_popescu: decimation you seen that btw ? delma found herself with like 2mn people in the capital.
mircea_popescu: decimation yes, people in africa, basically.
felipelalli: in Brazil too
decimation: was it a march for equality
felipelalli: BTCJam CEO is a Brazilian by the way
mircea_popescu: something like that, yeah. fucking scary by the looks of it.
trinque: felipelalli: http://deedbot.org/348645-15v9VrTNUA1oRzpv3u5b9DyPJqnn14RycR.txt << ding!
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkDT0d )
felipelalli: friend of a personal close friend.
trinque: I too... love ass channel.
mircea_popescu: i was like o.O woman's getting beheaded.
felipelalli: trinque: thank you! I thought you are kidding when you said YOU would send me! :)
mircea_popescu: i think undata's going for that whole "manic customer support" angle.
mircea_popescu: buncha sv hipsters.
danielpbarron: felipelalli, here's the tx 86010f67d16fb690be5a9682403c5a49adccf496ae8e3c0a756a1351993e9bca
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: why bitcoin is so undervalued?
decimation: lol she was an actual communist rebel
felipelalli: any thoughts about that?
decimation: basically the dead hand of su derping around the americas
mircea_popescu: decimation one that got pretty well corrupted at the petrobras trough
decimation: well, the irony is that obama is a product of the other side
trinque: mircea_popescu: haha, fuck the valley; I'd rather be here.
mircea_popescu: anyway, brazil's actually in a better position in sa than the us is in na.
trinque: felipelalli: I'll have the rest of the lever-pulling automated before long
mircea_popescu: if they pack it and leave everyone else's reduced to hunting wooly mamooths with bows and arrows.
felipelalli: trinque: nice!!
asciilifeform associates brazil primarily with spam and poorly written virii
asciilifeform: and ocelots.
mircea_popescu: nah, it's an industrial powerhouse.
asciilifeform knows this. theoretically.
mircea_popescu: of course, exactly how the color revolution's gonna go...
mircea_popescu: i dun think dept of state's too happy about it.
decimation: yeah they have been coloring red for the past decade
felipelalli: guess who I am: https://plus.google.com/+FelipeMicaroniLalliFML/posts/1LJVP7mk6wH
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkEDmi )
decimation: outflanking usg from the left is a common pattern worldwide
asciilifeform: felipelalli: the one whose sign levitates ?
felipelalli: AHHAHA
felipelalli: all sign levitates actually
felipelalli: this happened in protests here in Brazil
trinque: felipelalli: what do you think of the water situation there?
felipelalli: trinque: not a problem at all.
felipelalli: trinque: not a real problem, I guess.
decimation: mises & hayek were (classical) liberal statists in the final analysis
trinque: felipelalli: interesting, just news hysteria?
felipelalli: decimation: I know. That sign of Mises was not mine.
decimation: I think there were a few trilema posts on this point
felipelalli: The mine was about Bitcoin :)
felipelalli: trinque: gov control I guess
decimation: nevertheless, I'd have a beer with the guy :)
felipelalli: they can blame the people: "you are wasting water"
felipelalli: If I am not wrong, I sent an email to mircea_popescu asking his political position, or I regret to send.
decimation: !up huseby
mircea_popescu doesn't really do this entire private thing. ask him here, it's what the here is for after all.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, water : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l36by2AEsD1qz7ltxo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FnoZnx )
cazalla: looks a bit like natalie portman
mircea_popescu: not the throat tho
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: ok! :-) So, what is your political position, if you want to say about that.
mircea_popescu: political how ?
mircea_popescu: i've been saying plenty about it, here and on the blog
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: that's why I regret to send, now I remember!! ahahhah I knew you would say that.
felipelalli: political for me is: is statist. is not.
mircea_popescu: o.O
felipelalli: This was funny: http://imgur.com/ICidotc did you see that?
assbot: Still waiting for.... - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/19cBNi9 )
mircea_popescu: I downloaded all five seasons of The Wire from The Pirate Bay
mircea_popescu: And studied all their OPSEC and legalities of what to say
mircea_popescu: ok that thing's epic.
cazalla: i got part way through season 2 and didn't bother going any further.. the wire is the most overrated series evar
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00027195 = 6.2956 BTC [-]
fluffypony: I keep meaning to give it a watch
cazalla: sheeeeeeit fluffypony, i wouldn't bother unless you're down for some gay whistling nignogs with shotguns
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35850 @ 0.00027195 = 9.7494 BTC [-]
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CArQElgUMAAYlqX.jpg:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EAwkL3 )
punkman: cazalla: I'd say most overrated has to be Walking Dead these days
cazalla: punkman, agreed, i only watched a season or two of that before giving up.. same shit every episode
cazalla: every boardwalk empire went to shit in the last 2 seasons
cazalla: even*
punkman: I'd put The Wire in the top ten though, I quite enjoyed it
punkman: maybe I should grab that remastered version
trinque: punkman: that ad... incredible
trinque: later, teaching the controversy! is glacial melt a bad thing?
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAoXyCnU8AAHQQO.jpg:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hl1bBn )
punkman: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith-shulevitz-hiding-from-scary-ideas.html
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1GFZESS )
punkman: "after a while, she had to return to the safe space. “I was feeling bombarded by a lot of viewpoints that really go against my dearly and closely held beliefs,” "
fluffypony: trinque: obviously it's a good thing, it means more water, and since the advent of quality bottled water the consumption of water around the globe has increased
fluffypony: also it's just the top of the iceberg that is exposed to the sun, most of it is underwater so it's fine
fluffypony: /s
trinque: maybe if we tell the glacier it's triggering us with its microaggression, it'll stop
trinque: bam double reply
trinque: we are so ill equipped to deal with any problem rationally, let alone sea level rise
fluffypony: lol
trinque: we being this insane social aggregate I'm forced to participate in
punkman: sounds like you need a safe space :P
trinque: I think we just solved it, representative democracy is a trauma I can no longer acknowledge exists ☟︎
trinque: as for the glaciers, I am not informed enough to know whether they'd be dumping into the ocean with or without us
punkman: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/21/world/arctic-sea-ice/
assbot: Arctic sea ice hits lowest winter maximum on record - CNN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hl5BIx )
punkman: "lowest maximum"
punkman: "Meanwhile, the summer minimum ice extent reached in the Antarctic was one of the highest recorded"
punkman: I don't particularly care since I don't live in Tuvalu or wherever
fluffypony: ;;later tell BingoBoingo what http://i.imgur.com/pFgteaX.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hlgn1d )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00027826 = 4.5356 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35000 @ 0.00027033 = 9.4616 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93486 @ 0.00026917 = 25.1636 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55064 @ 0.00026736 = 14.7219 BTC [-] {2}
mats: it falls
danielpbarron: height=291663 vs height=214499
mats: fun fact: Chrome has an entire PDF serializer just for print preview - it creates a PDF of the page and then renders that in PDFium.
nubbins`: pete_dushenski are you advancing the opinion that colombian touts are nicer or friendlier than jamaican touts?
nubbins`: 'cause if that's the case, jamaica must be *unbearable* ☟︎
nubbins`: like, marrakesh-style unbearable
nubbins`: anyway, third-world tourism is an interesting thing
nubbins`: "So that the locals here seemvii to have an unwarranted expectation of my generosity" <<< unwarranted how? every whitey that goes to jamaica spends a ton of money.
nubbins`: it's precisely warranted
nubbins`: (GDP per capita <$6k)
nubbins`: "sourcing their ingredients from within spitting distance, thus keeping the revenue in the local economy" <<< you mean keeping their /expenditures/ in the local economy. their revenue goes elsewhere, unless they're the ones buying all the dimebags. ☟︎
nubbins`: i dunno, man. this whole article gets a C-
nubbins`: the only reason MP gets away with being a prick is because his articles are circuitous enough that it's not worth the effort to construct counter-arguments ☟︎
nubbins`: but if you lay it all bare, saggy tits flopping to the sides... don't expect people to kiss it
nubbins`: and FWIW most of the arawaks (native to jamaica) were sold into slavery or died from smallpox. they still have blood in the caribbean, just not in jamaica
nubbins`: lot ended up in haiti
nubbins`: "the Jamaican people by and large, though we’ve certainly seen exceptions, have much to learn when it comes to treating their patrons with the respectful reverence they deserve" <<< you've *got* to be taking the piss here.
nubbins`: consider that "respectful reverence" (lel) is precisely a waste of time in such situations. if their first impression is that you're an asshole, why would they go further? almost certainly it's not worth the effort. save the smiles for the 200 other suckers who were on your plane, and who will gladly open the wallet
nubbins`: if you want to see respectful reverence, stay at a resort
nubbins`: bask in the glory of being surrounded by wholly artificial personalities in wholly artificial surroundings
nubbins`: that's what you *really* wanted, yes?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34396 @ 0.00027849 = 9.5789 BTC [+]
nubbins`: bit late to claim that you really wanted to see "jamaica" if you're complaining that the guy selling beads on the beach wouldn't polish your knob
nubbins`: punkman:I'd put The Wire in the top ten though, I quite enjoyed it <<< +1
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 300 @ 0.00371316 = 1.1139 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 350 @ 0.00371316 = 1.2996 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i thought the arawaks were picked off for target practice by columb's crew
asciilifeform: nubbins`: though i also recall from his logs that a great many ran off cliffs also
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64554 @ 0.00027634 = 17.8389 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/20/french-court-orders-picassos-electrician-to-return-nearly-300-artworks << bezzle lords have legal title to the bezzle, it seems
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/19IN3nL )
jurov: http://ergofabulous.org/luther/ luther was naggum of his time :D
assbot: Lutheran Insulter :: List of Insults ... ( http://bit.ly/19IN3nP )
jurov: "It seems I must have liars and villains for opponents. I am not worthy in the sight of God that a godly and honorable person should discuss these matters with me in a Christian way. This is my greatest lament."
asciilifeform: re: picasso article: i can easily imagine a 'Dark Future of Hello Kitty' (TM) where a plebe found with ten fifty is prosecuted because 'he could only have obtained them by stealing from j.p.morgan, stop telling lies, there's no other way' ☟︎
asciilifeform: *with fifty btc
jurov: it also means picasso's work was defacto nationalized
jurov: what would be interesting precedent
asciilifeform: not nationalized as such (perhaps if it were confiscated to put in museum ?) but given to a designated darling of the state
asciilifeform: because 'prove you didn't steal it' if you aren't one ☟︎
jurov: "You are pious and honest people, who cannot do anything but calumniate and lie."
jurov: "You are jugglers of imaginary sins."
asciilifeform: the picasso thing is a mega-l0l
asciilifeform: because, among other things, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-03-2015#1044115 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 03:29:25; mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2015#1044114 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 03:29:02; mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not. ☟︎
asciilifeform: is it any wonder, given this picture, that homo redditicus wishes to mangle hierarchy, even if it nukes civilization? it seems as logical as wishing to stab the guards, given the chance, when you're imprisoned in auschwitz. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 261.23, Best ask: 261.24, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 261.27, 24 hour volume: 8712.7218436, 24 hour low: 258.67, 24 hour high: 263.55, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: ;;calc (130*10**6)/261.23
gribble: 497645.752785
asciilifeform: if you have half a mil btc, you actually have them
asciilifeform: but if you have a picasso - it is nothing without also having the blue blood.
asciilifeform: only buys you a ticket to the jail.
jurov: haven't you just argued that for you, half a mil btc is equally as useless as that picasso?
jurov: at least, once irs catches air of them?
jurov: !up airgapped
jurov: !up Pierre_Rochard
Pierre_Rochard: jurov: once irs catches air of them, they’re 39.6% less useful
punkman: is there even any evidence of the picasso works being stolen? maybe davout can find better article
jurov: they explicitly mention the judge had no evidence they are stolen. hence the outrage
punkman: http://i.imgur.com/t86Heg7.jpg this happens often around here, but most people don't have the money to build around it
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bmsm1x )
jurov: where?
punkman: the island with the bulls and the Minoans
punkman: you dig up the wrong thing, you no longer can use your land.
punkman: and merely possessing some kinds of rubble can get you charged for "smuggling of antiquities"
ben_vulpes: mon dieu
mircea_popescu: btw, about the fat thread : http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/fat.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgbXXj )
mircea_popescu: i knew i had it somewhere, but forgot where.
mircea_popescu: an' nao brb writing an article.
decimation: jurov: Luther has many great writings. Unfortunately most of those who belong to churches that he founded have tended to overlook his writings
decimation: cazalla: The Wire is a pretty good take on how life in the 'big city' works in the us - and its bureaucracy
decimation: it's not strictly historical but the main author was a journalist who covered the baltimore police for a long time
funkenstein_: got my mycelium stuxnet entropy in the mail yesterday
mircea_popescu: !up fhiejeurjjurru
fhiejeurjjurru: Whats up
funkenstein_: came with a free difficult to decipher t-shirt that says "entropy this ease freedom"
funkenstein_: apparently grammar too restrictive
fhiejeurjjurru: Yo yo yop
fhiejeurjjurru: Whats up everyone
mircea_popescu: who're you, randomname ?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron hey, mind writing a "for total noobs" guide for deedbot in the b-a wiki ?
mircea_popescu: i intend to use it for the eulora new accounts process, and well...
fhiejeurjjurru: Yo
fhiejeurjjurru: Yo
fhiejeurjjurru: Whats up everyone
mircea_popescu: !down fhiejeurjjurru
mircea_popescu: greeting scripts nao ffs.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/more-problems-of-meta/
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064023 << lollerblades! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 09:18:50; trinque: I think we just solved it, representative democracy is a trauma I can no longer acknowledge exists
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064041 << jamaica IS unbearable, and way under marakesh level. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 13:57:41; nubbins`: 'cause if that's the case, jamaica must be *unbearable*
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064049 << ahahahaha fu nubbs! ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 14:05:31; nubbins`: the only reason MP gets away with being a prick is because his articles are circuitous enough that it's not worth the effort to construct counter-arguments
mircea_popescu: "While the collection has not been officially valued, reports in the French and international press have estimated that it could be worth as much as 120 million euros, or about $130 million."
mircea_popescu: gtfo, 300 pieces for under half a million on average ?
mircea_popescu: what is this, the 70s ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064071 << oh certainly. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 16:17:10; asciilifeform: re: picasso article: i can easily imagine a 'Dark Future of Hello Kitty' (TM) where a plebe found with ten fifty is prosecuted because 'he could only have obtained them by stealing from j.p.morgan, stop telling lies, there's no other way'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064076 << the problem is they didn't have title. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 16:28:24; asciilifeform: because 'prove you didn't steal it' if you aren't one
mircea_popescu: gifts are nice and good but for unperishables it is always a good idea to obtain a piece of paper too. any golddigger knows this.
ben_vulpes: how does title to bitcoins work?
ben_vulpes: is the private key not adequate title?
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: no one has any title to any bitcoin.
decimation: in the us title to personal property is rarely documented (outside of automobiles)
mircea_popescu: obv, fake title will be constructed by convention, but hey. not unlike saying "the moon belongs to X"
mircea_popescu: decimation valuable art is not "personal property"
decimation: well, it isn't real property
thestringpuller: is it just me or does this tank look ghetto: http://i.imgur.com/KTwWOdk.jpg
decimation: certainly some signed document that says "I bequeath X to Y" would be helpful in any reasonable court
mircea_popescu: it is real property, of course it is.
mircea_popescu: how not ?
mircea_popescu: it has its own variant of torens title and everything.
decimation: it's mobile?
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: that's just shorthand, "oh, real estate is that estate which can not move"
mircea_popescu: real estate is that estate which is identifiable in itself, rather than by its characteristics.
mircea_popescu: that's why if i steal your house i am ordered to give you back ~your house~ but if i steal your bottle of beer i am ordered to pay you for a beer.
decimation: I think this might be a difference between common and continental law
mircea_popescu: very much doubt it, seeing how the above is at common law.
mircea_popescu: the remedies available distinguish the nature of property, and the remedies for chattels (your "personal" property) are of same value, because chattels are fungible.
mircea_popescu: castles and drawings by picasso are not fungible.
thestringpuller: http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-pc-sales-weak-as-many-businesses-stick-with-windows-xp/
decimation: http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1727 < I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of the term 'real property' is that it only includes the land and immovable improvements
assbot: Legal Dictionary | Law.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLEGo2 )
thestringpuller: http://i.imgur.com/i0jvyiv.gifv << This kid has his priorities straight.
mircea_popescu: decimation always see the actual source. http://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=458-12-010
assbot: WAC 458-12-010: Definition—Property—Real. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLFfOI )
mircea_popescu: take for instance "(7) Standing timber growing on land which belongs to the same person as the timber."
mircea_popescu: certainly movable.
mircea_popescu: and so are titles of various kinds - such as to mineral rights, or whatever.
mircea_popescu: it's not usually made much of, but the sensible way to take stuff like famous artpieces is exactly real estate.
decimation: well, I agree that it would make sense to do things that way
decimation: the us legal system isn't famous for making much sense
decimation: for instance, hardly any jurisdictions use 'torrens title'
decimation: it is standard practice to pay third parties to 'insure' the title chain is 'clean'
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, if one wishes to avoid the sort of problem those giftees faced... get title with the gift.
decimation: aye, a receipt of some kind would be handy to avoid exactly this. even for bitcoin, if you plan on arguing in front of a 'legacy' judge
mircea_popescu: no.
mircea_popescu: for bitcoin it does not work, because no one has any title.
mircea_popescu: picasso himself did have title to his own paintings, and so he could transmit title to them.
mircea_popescu: but there isn't someoine with title to bitcoin (other than, arguably, satoshi, which is WHY his disappearance is so important)
mircea_popescu: and since one can't give what one does not have, it then follows that one can't actually give bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: (the usg will readily dispute this claiming they actually DO have title to bitcoin they confiscate, and then create chain of title from there. this argument is illogical).
decimation: but logic is hardly the foundation of states, rather brazen claims of possession.
mircea_popescu: sure, but as far as brazen claims go they could also claim your wife.
mircea_popescu: god knows they already claim your children.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2012/gpg-contracts/#comment-113239 << check that one out.
assbot: GPG contracts pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLGZHz )
thestringpuller: looks like that tracks from qntra
thestringpuller: interesting
mircea_popescu: it does ?
mircea_popescu: http://nap.univacc.net/ << lulz of all fucking time, incidentally.
assbot: NAP: The Non-Aggression Principle ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLHmSt )
mircea_popescu: "It is possible to construct a rational argument, from broadly agreeable premises, that leads directly to the NAP." is a direct equivalent to "i can prove that blue eyes are what god intended"
thestringpuller: looks like it, not that it actually does. There is a links from recent qntra article same date as comment that links to GPG contract article on trilema.
mircea_popescu: " While the Non-Aggression Principle does not have anything direct to say about the legitimacy of retaliation" << entirely spurious distinction. there's no logical difference between "retaliation" and "initiation"
mircea_popescu: de novo acts are not in fact possible.
mircea_popescu: once innovation is admitted as an arbitrary construct, well... it's a political matter.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you mean today ?
thestringpuller: yes
thestringpuller: 3/22
decimation: there's a libertarian fantasy world where humans are required 'play nice' because of some kind of rationalist first-principle
mircea_popescu: makes sense then
mircea_popescu: decimation yes but it's bunko through and through.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's the flag. mebbe some intellectual leadership of that movement whatever it may be sees it, feels equal to the task of representing their ideas in front of the world rather than in some carefully constructed echo chamber and comes prove it.
jurov: reminds me of "it increased hedonic index of the school" (guess from where)
mircea_popescu: feel free to distribute teh log links to your friends.
mircea_popescu: jurov the guy with the bad harry potter fanfic ?
jurov: yes, that.
mircea_popescu: your phrasing gave it away :p
decimation: heh yeah
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: when I first joined this channel at the collapse of GLBSE you said, "Scammers just help the legitimate businesses' reputation that much more." My friend this past year went on to say, "In the new world, the most trusted person need not to be liked, because well he's trustworthy. He/She could be a complete asshole if as long as they do their job."
thestringpuller: so i've gone on to realize that the redditard mentality of "I don't like this person == I don't trust this person" is completely false on all accounts.
thestringpuller: Perhaps within politics gettings someone to "like your platform" is moot altogether.
fluffypony: thestringpuller the easiest way to understand why that mentality fails is to state the inverse
fluffypony: "I like this person == I trust this person"
fluffypony: most con artists are very likeable
fluffypony: and most of the people I would trust to keep my money for me are...well..not likeable at all
fluffypony: which is the point :-P
mircea_popescu: the entire "like/dislike" process as practiced by esl people atm is due for some reform.
thestringpuller: which reform?
mircea_popescu: recall that idiot that was droning on about how he "didn;t like" some local woman because "she was racist" ?
mircea_popescu: well... that's not how it works.
fluffypony: lol
mircea_popescu: the group of people who think they like tgi tuesdays because X cultural reasons, irrespective of the food,
mircea_popescu: they can't really survive in the wild.
thestringpuller: well this is primal no? D00d is stranded on island and has to kill for food. Hasn't killed before, so choice is: kill or die.
mircea_popescu: ok... ?
mircea_popescu: how about stranded on island, east half of which is constantly flooded, all esl-ians gather there because "it looks just like the bay area, man!"
mircea_popescu: how the "bay area" looks is really not all that important.
mircea_popescu: the various cultural conventions of stupid, while the leading heuristic leading the stupid, aren't really all that important on their own either.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony generally, the thing there is that people who are trustworthy are uncompromising, and people who are popular are very, VERY compromising.
dignork: decimation: Rothbard never claimed people would 'play nice', just that current system of control is fucked up.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: spot on
mircea_popescu: so perfectly likeable folk (if you're sane) will look like total assholes (to idiots).
mircea_popescu: which idiots then go on to "really trust the brick and mortar neobee" and well..
thestringpuller: it's a sickness to say the least.
mircea_popescu: but likeable != popular, nor are the applause of the mob worth anything nowadays, like they weren't worth anything when cicero walked the earth
mircea_popescu: and so here we go, " people with a pathologically difficult attitude toward various important software development philosophy (e.g. API and UI design)"
decimation: was that a slight at the gpg maintainers or stallman?
mircea_popescu: well, i readily grant gpg is pure shit.
mircea_popescu: just, manure, as george observed, is almost pleasant if you get down to it : there's a pg, which isn't bad, with a gnu in front of it.
mircea_popescu: at least it's not out and out systempoison.
decimation: dignork: the fucked-upness of the "current system" doesn't justify appealing to some bit of dubious reasoning
mircea_popescu: decimation i think his point stands tho, rothbard never said it, and what idiots trying to be "rothbardian" understood of it all isn't really relevant.
mircea_popescu shudders at the thourght of "true trilemians" long after his death doing really stupid shit.
decimation: heh. reminds me of the 'museum fremen'
mircea_popescu: go to cairo, plenty of "museum arabs" irl.
mircea_popescu: or at least, were, during mubarak days.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: which idiots then go on to "really trust the... << I was always taught never to make a business decision out of emotion. Making a business decision based on "liking someone" fits this methinks.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller now turn that on its head : business decisions without human heuristic can't beat adlai's scalpl.
mircea_popescu: by definition.
chetty: yeah that gut instinct thing still counts
thestringpuller: ah, i was about to ask that. "The Gut"
nubbins`: asciilifeform sorry, your book can't be bound in sealskin anymore ;/
nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/corner-brook-woman-s-sealskin-purse-seized-at-u-s-border-1.3004760
assbot: Corner Brook woman's sealskin purse seized at U.S. border - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLKU7s )
mircea_popescu: lmao
decimation: nubbins`: was she an eskimo or whatever
mircea_popescu: yet somehow this ain't making the news. "hey, more shit you're not good enough to have!" not really interesting to anyone.
funkenstein_: border fascists can take anything
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/03/openssl-severe-vulnerability-to-be-revealed-march-19th/ << anything came of this btw ?
assbot: OpenSSL Severe Vulnerability to be Revealed March 19th | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLLamQ )
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ i fully expect it will eventually be illegal to wear leather, natural fibers, etc. everyone must plastic!
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's when i start shooting.
decimation: when did the crazy fur nazis start making usg border policy?
funkenstein_: i back you up
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Just some Denial of service stuff. The LibreSSL fork was only affected by 5 or so of the 13 or 14 vulnerabilities
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo imo after an article like that must make update "here's what it was"
mircea_popescu: sorta reads like a promise to keep reader updateds.
mircea_popescu: !up execut3
funkenstein_: but my legal advice reminds me border forces are basically above the law
mircea_popescu: decimation 80s or so ?
mircea_popescu: !up execut3
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Will do in a bit
thestringpuller: !up ascii_modem
nubbins`: funkenstein_ +1
ascii_modem: ssl vuln << yes; check log
nubbins`: ;;dict basically
gribble: wn: basically adv 1: in essence; at bottom or by one's (or its) very nature; "He is basically dishonest"; "the argument was essentially a technical one"; "for all his bluster he is in essence a shy person" [syn: {basically}, {fundamentally}, {essentially}]
nubbins`: contrast with colloquial defn: "sorta"
nubbins`: for further reading on why i won't mail one: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/extradition-order-issued-for-pot-activist-emery-1.878376
assbot: Extradition order issued for pot activist Emery - British Columbia - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLM9Ds )
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> danielpbarron hey, mind writing a "for total noobs" guide for deedbot in the b-a wiki ? << i can do that
ascii_modem: it was a mindfuck. bunch of possibly remoteexec vulns and no real scandal followed
mircea_popescu: ascii_modem aha
trinque: danielpbarron: I am mobile atm but can answer questions.
trinque: back at puter shortly
danielpbarron: i'm also mobile atm
ascii_modem: openssl phasetransitioned to the place where winblows lives
ascii_modem: where nobody gives a phuq
decimation: 'spiritual winblows'
mircea_popescu: ascii_modem im curious how BingoBoingo's update reads is all :)
decimation: I can see why linus was pissy about the pr given to 'security bugs'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064084 << the complaint is not that it's illogical, but that the desire of the convicted felon to stab the guards must not succeed and should not succeed. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 16:56:21; asciilifeform: is it any wonder, given this picture, that homo redditicus wishes to mangle hierarchy, even if it nukes civilization? it seems as logical as wishing to stab the guards, given the chance, when you're imprisoned in auschwitz.
ascii_modem: linus was right re: turdcode being all across everything
nubbins`: "the 1972 U.S. Marine Mammal Protection Act. The act categorically bans "imports or sales of all marine mammal products", regardless of the conservation status of the animal"
decimation: ascii_modem: yeah, the problem with the security 'pr' releases is the implication is that once they are 'fixed' everything is great!
nubbins`: mp wasn't joking re: more shit you're not good enough to have
mircea_popescu: mp doesn't joke half the times he gets credit for.
nubbins`: ^
ascii_modem: import live and shoot stateside, skin.
nubbins`: as if /that's/ allowed
nubbins`: barely get away with it here
ascii_modem: but border guard doesnt autocatch then.
nubbins`: doesn't autocatch a /live seal/?
ascii_modem: live may be legal? ianal
nubbins`: you'd measure the forms in inches, not pages
decimation: wait for one to present itself at the coast?
nubbins`: given the rate at which melting sea ice from imaginary climate change is shrinking polar bear populations, which are one of the only things keeping seal populations in check...
nubbins`: you're probably 20 years away from actually seeing above
mircea_popescu: nah, seals don't like warm shores.
nubbins`: nor do they like starving
decimation: http://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/eat-at-dougs/Content?oid=2260720 < related "Jim and Bub watched each other, smirking. Ultimately, Bub couldn't keep quiet anymore. "Mr. Billman, you're about to tear into a 100-percent, grade-A, free-range, Florida-raised dugong steak." "Dugong?" I asked."Manatee." "
assbot: Eat at Doug's | News | Orlando Weekly ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLNEle )
mircea_popescu: but anytway, yes, all the "ecology" and "protection" legislation in the us has exactly nothing to do with anything but "you plebs, off to your gruel". it's copied exactly off the forest laws of medieval england
nubbins`: you can buy seal burgers at restaurants here occasionally
nubbins`: flipper pie, w/e
mircea_popescu: (and no, forest does not mean "heavily wooded", it means "set aside from common law, at the disposition of the king". much like "real estate" does not mean "thick withj buildings")
mircea_popescu: ie, it comes from latin foris.
nubbins`: people *love* sealskin boots, purses, hats, etc
nubbins`: generally very silly looking
decimation: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4122800.stm
assbot: BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Japan puts whale burger on menu ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLNWsg )
mircea_popescu: nubbins` yeah, actual people. not usians tho. usians hate them, as they should. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064084 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 16:56:21; asciilifeform: is it any wonder, given this picture, that homo redditicus wishes to mangle hierarchy, even if it nukes civilization? it seems as logical as wishing to stab the guards, given the chance, when you're imprisoned in auschwitz.
nubbins`: bbl musique!
funkenstein_: decimation, research purposes?
mircea_popescu: nah, they actually eat them, but have for > 30 years claimed their whalers are "researchers"
funkenstein_: motherfuckers make me want to do a little research of my own
mircea_popescu: i dunno, whale's not all that great.
thestringpuller: http://onehouressays.com/
decimation: re: it's more the principle of the matter. japan wants to assert that japan, and not usg, make japan policy
decimation: this is obviously silly
mircea_popescu: not so obvious.
decimation: isn't japan wholly dependent on the us for defense?
mircea_popescu: and if the wife is fully dependent on husband for sustenance this means what, that she doesn't fuck whoever she pleases ?
mircea_popescu: naive view.
trinque: seems like the self-defense force has been pushing for an open relationship gradually over the years
mircea_popescu: moreover... "Defense". defense from whom ? clearly it can't rely on the us to defend it from the us, an' so...
thestringpuller: http://www.coinbuzz.com/2015/03/22/bitproof-whiz-kid-looking-for-business-niche/
trinque: "whiz kid" ... "demo day" ... ah god :P
trinque: wtf is this deedbot?
trinque: guys where is my 5mil in VC cheese for deedbot?!
decimation: mircea_popescu: an' so... master and man?
mircea_popescu: lol
ben_vulpes: trinque: slaves to the wot
thestringpuller: https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/579642765769867266 << the undead continues
funkenstein_: third wheel solutions
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller so many whizz kidz, so little whizz chezz...
mircea_popescu tries to even remember who these were, memory fails.
trinque: \w+ \w+ Solutions
trinque: the imitation never ends
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
jurov: scoopbot -dropdead
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/march-19th-openssl-vulnerabilities-overview/
jurov: ha!
BingoBoingo: jurov's got the magic command
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is they didn't have title << does a suitcase full of benjies have 'title' ? or a tonne of gold bar? or not because fungible ☟︎
asciilifeform: and why exactly is this concept of permission from the state to be recognized as the owner, a useful thing ?
asciilifeform: if 'possession is 9/10th of the law,' as is the maxim, why not 10/10 ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: castles and drawings by picasso are not fungible << i'd argue that picassos are more or less 'analogue bitcoin' for the ultra-bezzlerich. hence my interest in the linked turd
asciilifeform: other than, arguably, satoshi, which is WHY his disappearance is so important << what would a picture with a living satoshi look like ?
asciilifeform: usg will readily dispute this claiming they actually DO have title to bitcoin they confiscate << guaranteed.
asciilifeform: 'In fact, I rather suspect that GPG will fade away as other implementations gain currency. It's old, crusty, built from barely readable source code, license terms inhibited, and maintained by people with a pathologically difficult attitude toward various important software development philosophy (e.g. API and UI design)' << mega-l0l. thing is, in a way the fool is right, it 'faded away' the same way common lisp did. which is t
asciilifeform: o say not at all, but it isn't aggressively tossed in anyone's face and hence 'does not exist' in the mind of the populist idiots..
asciilifeform: 'It is possible to construct a rational argument, from broadly agreeable premises, that leads directly to the NAP...' << these folks use 'natural law' crapolade as a crutch to avoid the demand of having agency