⏐︎ 19853
Adlai: https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2khvc5/fincen_issues_two_administrative_rulings/
Adlai: TIL linden dollar exchanges are registered MSBs
BingoBoingo: Adlai: I'm working on a write up atm on those
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: dude you gotta stop your blog from opening up links in new tabs
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes uh no?
pete_dushenski: why would i do that?
ben_vulpes: vile fucking practice, destroying the browse history.
cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products?
PeterL: is there a way to change that behavior in your local browser?
punkman: cazalla: not rly
ben_vulpes: also pete_dushenski your content div scrolls sideways
cazalla: punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons."
PeterL: cazella: maybe they are not making good entropy and are embarrased to admit it?
ben_vulpes: cazalla: only if you're depending on DO for your noise.
jurov: sugh, this is worse than obola.. i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain
PeterL: If it is something like "pick a certain digit of pi to start at" then it would be a security breach to expose what you are doing
jurov: base64, quoted printable, oh my
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: no-irc << story here. a good fraction of irc bots are malware c&c commanders. hosting firms hate them, they draw fire (from upstream isp)
ben_vulpes: PeterL: yeah sure, custom stylesheet for contravex.com clobbering target="_blank"
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes hm let me mull it over
ben_vulpes: but as i said, clobbering the back-button when reading hyperlinked documents is...
ben_vulpes: well you fill in that ellipses yourself.
kakobrekla: <cazalla> punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons." < if its a bad implementation, you in fact increase attack surface even further
punkman: and that's a good reason?
kakobrekla: didnt say that
kakobrekla: everything is terrible
asciilifeform: cazalla: is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy << your crystal ball's answer is correct.
asciilifeform: cazalla: same reason mircea_popescu won't post his neutered bitcoind source tree.
asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose
kakobrekla: same as with signing any code.
asciilifeform: jurov: i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain <<<<< mircea_popescu << our thread last night.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: signing code << can be a hero for the motherland.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes it's a bit odd that the sidescroll shows up in firefox and safari but not opera. what're you using?
cazalla: so really, it's more a question of why buy physical coins to begin with than getting to the point of asking how they generated the private keys used for the priv address inside the coin
punkman: asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools
asciilifeform will sign own code (cardano) with 'will die by this' seal. will not sign other folks' code, unless compensated to actually put in the time to play 'reverse underhanded c contest.' << not cheap
kakobrekla: but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools < we call the rand() function. twice.
asciilifeform: physical coins << anyone who buys private keys, deserves to pay for the sin
kakobrekla: yeah casascius is basically a scammer for not scamming
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'the gears grind slowly but they grind infinitely fine.'
kakobrekla: hehe
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: chrome
asciilifeform: he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes zomg
pete_dushenski: anyways, i'll look in to it :)
cazalla: pete_dushenski, where did the women go btw
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/10/fincen-payment-processors-others-may-be-regulated-money-transmitters/
pete_dushenski: cazalla they were lost in the hosting changeover and have yet to reappear. they may still or they may not.
asciilifeform: punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe?
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: also opera lol
punkman: I got a coin in the works btw
kakobrekla: physical ?
punkman: yeah, not sure if it will have space for sticker though
punkman: maybe just an art thing
kakobrekla: funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead.
Adlai: https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=1210409 ctrl-f bitcoin and laff
asciilifeform: Adlai: dead link?
kakobrekla: no worky
Adlai: here it is with all the tracking crap... https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=1210409&JobReqLang=1&partnerid=25404&siteid=5602&Codes=TD103
Adlai must've had some tracking crap in his browser already
Adlai: tl;dr: "emerging payment systems (eg Bitcoin, Paypal, Square)"
Adlai likes the order
kakobrekla waits for "10 years bitcoin experience required" in 2014.
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/526897263482654721
assbot: Today's /hashtag/FinCEN?src=hash /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hash rulings Deturdified, because Fuck PDFs http://t.co/sIOYOjmmbz
asciilifeform: !s 3 ani experienta
assbot: 3 results for '3 ani experienta' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=3+ani+experienta
BingoBoingo: Starfish virginity protection methods: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm
asciilifeform: ^ classic text
asciilifeform: see also:
asciilifeform: ;;google knife folsom prison
gribble: Put 'Em Down, Take 'Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From ...: <http://www.amazon.com/Put-Down-Take-Out-Techniques/dp/0873644840>; Knife Fighting : About Folsom Knife Fighting - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGVcoMJx-zw>; Put Em Down, Take Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques from Folsom ...: <http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1744698.Put_Em_Down_Take_Em_Out_>
asciilifeform: ^ a kind of sequel
bounce: 7+ year "technical leadership" in webmonkeying?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes sidescrolling fixed on opera/ff/safari, how's it look on chromeski?
jurov: asciilifeform << our thread last night << now i wonder why nobody's reusing ascii control characters (C0)
jurov: C0 reserved for asciilifeforms?
asciilifeform: jurov: because they get silently snipped by a thousand tools ?
asciilifeform: and aha, yes.
jurov: for example?
asciilifeform: 'strings'.
asciilifeform: your www broser (likely)
asciilifeform: better question, what -doesn't- lose them
jurov: how does a browser use them?
asciilifeform: loses
asciilifeform: not uses
asciilifeform would be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong about this
jurov: oh that. only if tim berners lee used them for html instead of <>"'
asciilifeform: we're still paying for the ill manners of ill-behaved 1970s 'glass tty' terminals.
jurov: ^F
jurov: ^ was supposed to ACK
asciilifeform half-seriously suggests using otherwise worthless unicode chars for pgp control codes. e.g., babylonian cuneiform.
asciilifeform is not pleased that these are presently more widely supported than the complete ascii set. but it's a fact.
asciilifeform: ☭☭☭☭☭☭
bounce: more elegant to invent your own pgp control script complete with glyphs and have it accepted in the unicode standard
PeterL: what control would the characters have?
jurov: instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars
asciilifeform: PeterL: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897500
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.
asciilifeform: discussion of why jurov's turdatron is stuck using detached gpg signatures
jurov: https://coinchimp.com/ so...it has come to this
mats_cd03: thats a nice picture of a chimp
jurov: lol on their on "warning" page:
jurov: That's just basic classical economics. Scammers don't last long in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
jurov: We are MUCH safer than the other exchanges, each of which has spawned a huge list of horror stories from disgrunted customers.
jurov: they forgot to mention they are amazing
kakobrekla: https://coinchimp.com/themes/btc_public/assets/imgs/mainpromo.jpg
kakobrekla: lolk
kakobrekla: better than mtgox, they say.
decimation: asciilifeform: is this because base64?
jurov: decimation: no, it uses dash escaping
asciilifeform: decimation: gpg 'escapes' minus signs.
jurov: which mutilates patches
decimation: lol
cazalla: that's racist!
jurov: cazalla: what?
decimation: why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits?
decimation: like, are they going to send it on a 5-bit teletype?
cazalla: jurov, referring to kakobrekla's coinchimp image.. hey if it was good enough for people to say mailchimp was vaguely racist..
asciilifeform: because -----BEGIN FUCKTARDATION----- .... ------END FUCKTARDATION
decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_cipher
decimation: I see.
decimation: c-machine implementation of characters is enraging
decimation: I think you had that rant a few months ago on that topic
asciilifeform: decimation: http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/not-all-programmers-alike/#comment-3676
decimation: someone should make a --cccp flag that enables ☭ as the BOM/EOM char for gpg
asciilifeform: see also: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3036079150517560@arcana.naggum.no.html
decimation: yeah, characters are properly objects with a variety of attributes, not numbers
decimation: it does seem like unicode is a natural fit for lisp
asciilifeform: unicode is still braindamaged
decimation: I think most folk use UTF8
asciilifeform: no way to cleanly define local glyphs
asciilifeform: in any extant system
asciilifeform: it's as if we were still using teletype
asciilifeform: why are we emulating drum printers?
decimation: actually it's a tacit admission that computers suck
decimation: no one has the will/ability to make better software until hardware to use it rolls around
asciilifeform: in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more.
asciilifeform: because 'that's just how computer works, didntcha stay awake in school'
decimation: Another reason why chars suck is the endian problem
Adlai mutters something about local readtables
asciilifeform: nothing to do with readtables
decimation: you are stuck with 8 bits if you don't want to constantly guess at endianness
Adlai: what exactly are we trying to do here
mircea_popescu: !up Abelincoln
asciilifeform: Adlai: which 'we', which 'here' ?
Abelincoln: whats up this is abe lincoln talking from the dead yo
Adlai: asciilifeform: we = same we that are emulating drum printers, here = our efforts to go beyond drum printers
decimation: abe you were a murderous tyrant who birthed modern usg
asciilifeform: decimation: also 100 to 1 he's 'meow mix'
mircea_popescu: brendio ?!
decimation: I have a question about deedbot
decimation: is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time?
decimation: one would imagine that keeping the pile of all past deeds would become cumbersome
mircea_popescu: uh ?!
asciilifeform: !
mircea_popescu: dude it grows 100% a year haven't you heard ?
asciilifeform: didn't we do this already
asciilifeform: in babylon.
asciilifeform: ended badly, iirc
decimation: well, I was thinking about undata's problem
mircea_popescu: knapsacks grow faster than things to put in them!
mircea_popescu: by order of usgavin
asciilifeform: 'bag of holding' !
decimation: imagine a century from now, someone wants to verify a deed - he would need to transmit potentially millions of deed hashes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bag of treasuries.
Adlai: decimation: s/deed/transaction/
mircea_popescu: decimation wait wut ?
mircea_popescu: you only need to verify the bundle in question
Adlai is a little curious about this deed stuf
decimation: well, if the hash of the bundle is included in the bundle, how did the hash end up in the bundle?
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3127703943282468@naggum.no.html << more re character representation
thestringpuller: !s from:mircea_popescu sha1
assbot: 4 results for 'from:mircea_popescu sha1' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+sha1
mircea_popescu: decimation all submitted deeds during one hour go in the same bundle./
Adlai: asciilifeform: thx
decimation: okay, so each bundle has a hash, and the privkey of that bundle is the hash of the list of all past hashes
mircea_popescu: dude omg. not like he didn't say and get quoted x times.
mircea_popescu: !s from:punkman hash
assbot: 13 results for 'from:punkman hash' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Apunkman+hash
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
BingoBoingo: https://coinfire.cf/2014/10/27/sec-begins-sending-investigation-letters/ << Coinfire has more people supposing important letters
asciilifeform: 'A character and its encoding are different concepts. An encoding and its (external) representation are different concepts. An external representation and the numeric values of whatever unit it is made up of are different concepts. By conflating all four concepts into one, Unix has held text processing and computing in general back several decades. This is fairly ironic, since Unix started out as a text proce
asciilifeform: ssing vehicle.' ( http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3226037188416051@naggum.net.html )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo we probably should send them some letters too.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: All of the letters, entire doctors full of letters.
decimation: I guess it's not worth worrying about until there's an uptake in deedbot usage
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh i don't even agree. fuck all this subtlety of amuk idiocy. a character, its encoding, the representation thereof and its numeric value are all THE SAME THING. forever.
mircea_popescu: anyone trying to divorce any of these gets to burn in hell.
mircea_popescu: 27 letters and fuck you.
asciilifeform: - and --- forever.
asciilifeform: tidididahdahdah...
mircea_popescu: fixed offset.
mircea_popescu: NO PASARAN
asciilifeform dusts off telegraph key
decimation: .... .. - .... . .-. .
asciilifeform: shortwavecoin awaits.
mircea_popescu: -. --- / .--. .- ... .- .-. .- -.
decimation: bitcoin <is> shortwavecoin
thestringpuller: ... --- ...
bounce: also, one case. only. ever.
asciilifeform: OK
asciilifeform: 101
bounce: typical how you're both reverting to upper case. who said that had to be the only one available?
thestringpuller: I don't like it when mircea_popescu yells.
mircea_popescu: SHUT UP BOUNCE
bounce: because logic. sure.
mircea_popescu: no, because allcaps!
Adlai: (setf *print-case* :downcase) ; pls
mircea_popescu: it's like if there were only one gender,
mircea_popescu: it'd be men.
decimation: most morse operators who have to send numbers use shortened versions
decimation: so zero ----- becomes - or 't'
decimation: how's that for symbol/number representation
bounce: no, it wouldn't. wouldn't be women either.
asciilifeform: ooloi.
asciilifeform: ;;google ooloi
gribble: Oankali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oankali>; Octavia Butler's Xenogenesis Trilogy: An Introduction - Biology: <http://biology.kenyon.edu/slonc/books/butler1.html>; Imago: Book Three of the Xenogenesis Series (1989): <http://www.literatureandgenetics.org/viewwork.php?id=60>
mircea_popescu: yes it wouldn't be women lol
Adlai: if there were only one gender, "gender" the concept wouldn't exist
asciilifeform: (summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.)
mircea_popescu: Adlai how come everyone's smart yet the concept of stupid exists ?
Abelincoln: hi
Abelincoln: whats up everyone
Abelincoln: WHATS UP
decimation: !down Abelincoln
mircea_popescu: !down Abelincoln
asciilifeform: lol, firing squad
mircea_popescu: yeah, not qualified to troll here. go learn moirse.
undata: innovation is happening; deploy SEC!
Adlai: the gradient of idiocy is far more nuanced, although i guess our dead president is anchoring one end of it
decimation: eh. every new bureaucrat knows that they can 'embrace and extend' new territory by trying to 'get there first'
mircea_popescu: Over at reddit.com, we rewrote the site from Lisp to Python in the past week. It was pretty much done in one weekend. << lawl.
bounce: rulemaking, the frontier
Adlai: they must have been using the algol-compatibility subset
bounce: so what were the motivation and benefits of doing that?
asciilifeform: 'skilled man can write fortran in any language'
Adlai: it's kinda sad that going from CL to Python is a step backwards in concurrency support
mircea_popescu: bounce old story, 2005ish. "runs faster"
decimation: if true, it's probably that their lisp was retarded
mircea_popescu: "The Lisp newsgroup, comp.lang.lisp, was upset about the switch that they’re currently planning to write a competitor to reddit in Lisp, to show how right they are or something." << never happened, of course.
decimation: http://norvig.com/python-lisp.html
Adlai: bwahahahah
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually, the funny part - it sorta did. graham and his 'arc' (which was actually a spray paint over, if i recall, mzscheme)
Adlai: a reddit infested with c.l.l trolls would be interesting... i hope they'd bring along the markov chain idiocy spammers too
asciilifeform: ended up filling all the ancient stereotypes about 'slow'
Adlai: it's the fifty-year language, it takes fifty years until the HTTP client gets implemented
undata: dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django
asciilifeform: Adlai: funny, because one of the first http stacks was john mallery's - in common lisp.
asciilifeform: on symbolics box, no less. ran last at the clinton white house, of all places.
Adlai didn't know, but isn't surprised
thestringpuller: undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js
thestringpuller: rap*
mircea_popescu: anyway, that article is all about how arron s is great and wonderful.
mircea_popescu: which... whatever, when i start fucking boys i might care.
nubbins`: <asciilifeform> he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ? <<< probably no more than a few days of torture
thestringpuller: "when"?
thestringpuller: ^ mircea_popescu
undata: thestringpuller: the only way I can tolerate python is by considering it "functional" in the weak sense
asciilifeform: 'when we'll eat long pig? when short pig is through'
jurov: kakobrekla ponder this bit of wisdom from naggum: it has been instructive to see how people suddenly grasp that a date is always read and written in ISO 8601 format although the machine actually deals with it as a large integer...
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller women will eventually run out...
jurov: ..Unix folks who are used to seeing the number _or_ a hacked-up crufty version of `ctime' output are truly amazed by this.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: how so?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller because they're cuntable.
thestringpuller: harhar
thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitpay-lets-bitcoin-customers-make-it-rain/
decimation: herr walker just introduced me to the 'rust' language: http://www.rust-lang.org/
decimation: it's kinda like c++ without the libraries
undata: decimation: the immutability by default thing is cool
asciilifeform: fuck immutability.
decimation: yeah, I don't get how that helps
asciilifeform: whenever someone says 'immutability', i wish i could replace his ram with antifuse rom.
decimation: lol
asciilifeform: all the immutability you can handle.
Adlai is still waiting for a language to implement http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/ObjectIdentity.html
asciilifeform: till it comes out yer ears.
decimation: asciilifeform: it's another symptom of the 'protect the programmer from himself' mentality
asciilifeform: nah
asciilifeform: it actually comes from the 'mathemasturbators'
decimation: ah, in terms of proofs?
nubbins`: !s sha256sum
assbot: 5 results for 'sha256sum' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sha256sum
asciilifeform: the 'we embezzled 40 years of grantola from usg to pretend our fourth-rate mathematics is relevant to computing' folks.
mircea_popescu: ^
undata: I'm blessed to be among perfect programmers.
undata: as for myself, as many constraints as possible, please.
asciilifeform: haskell, ml, hindley-milner type systems.
nubbins`: anyone have a link handy for deed verification process?
undata: strict types, etc
nubbins`: n/m
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: well, its not hard to beat "hi you have incoming ddos, I understand this can be frustrating as this type of attack is usually a sign that your droplet has been compromised" <<< ahahaha wut ?
mircea_popescu: dude, logic.
Adlai: undata: run forrest, run! break out of those crutches!
undata: Adlai: when you intend to, you simply specify something mutable
mircea_popescu: "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut."
Adlai: run forrest, run!
Adlai: undata: see the object identity paper
undata: Adlai: I am already bigoted against OOP
undata: should I bother?
Adlai: yes
Adlai: once upon a time, "object" meant something other than "instance of a class"
mircea_popescu: i think oop is generally despised here.
undata: Adlai: I'd rather just have my types over here, and functions over there which use them
undata: I'll read it though.
undata: mircea_popescu: objects are just an intermediate shitbucket between global and local
Adlai: the paper has nothing to do with OOP, "object" could equally be replaced by "data"
asciilifeform: the crop of junk-oop systems of the 1990s will be tremendously expensive to future folks, who will avoid anything that smacks of 'objects' even when a particular apparatus actually wants to be represented in that shape
mircea_popescu: undata as actually encountered, pretty much. asciilifeform i guess so.
asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS
bounce doesn't mind OOP. there's some good ideas in there, even if most practitioners didn't get it.
asciilifeform: ;;google art of metaobject protocol
gribble: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol: Gregor Kiczales, Jim des ...: <http://www.amazon.com/The-Metaobject-Protocol-Gregor-Kiczales/dp/0262610744>; The Art of the Metaobject Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Metaobject_Protocol>; MetaObject Protocol - Association of Lisp Users: <http://www.alu.org/mop>
asciilifeform: ^ as described there.
bounce: quite sure that if there wasn't OOP they'd've thought of something else to write crap code in
mircea_popescu: i guess a fairer evaluation is to say oop got the blessing of suck, the way www did.
mircea_popescu: experts everywhere.
asciilifeform: blessing of suck <<<<<
Adlai: asciilifeform: seen this? http://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple
Adlai: turns out people actually use it
mircea_popescu: !s sykopomp
assbot: 2 results for 'sykopomp' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sykopomp
mircea_popescu: actually in teh logs. we got everything weird!
decimation: oop is one of those things that sounds great on paper, but when a group of programmers try to use it they end up with unmaintainable spaghetti code
asciilifeform: i've yet to meet a 'reinventor' of clos who actually understood all of clos
asciilifeform: or even showed symptoms of having so much as smelled the book gas in kiczales et al
Adlai: mircea_popescu: actually not in the logs, unless anybody paid attention when i brought it up :)
mircea_popescu: i'm never going to catch up to this log, am i.
asciilifeform: doesn't mean this 'nessie' isn't alive and well in some loch.
mircea_popescu: Adlai i still got the impression it was discussed before. maybe im just confused, maybe assbot was down right then, dunno.
asciilifeform blows dust off kiczales
asciilifeform notices no dust. because uses.
decimation: asciilifeform: I get the feeling that oop is sick at a metaphysical level
asciilifeform: oop as straightjacked (i.e. other than clos) - yes.
asciilifeform: *straightjacket
Adlai: we got stuck on how to implement a MOP for sheeple, and it hasn't seen enough use for people to miss it... but it's a rather faithful translation of MOPless CLOS
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: ;;later tell DanielKrawisz Looking forward to seeing you rationalize this gem <<< i dunno, it's like the guy went off the deep end past coupla weeks.
mircea_popescu: major bender or something.
bounce forgot who argued that of the four main things in OOP only encapsulation was really important, but things like (multiple) inheritance are just that much shinier
undata: oop is shitty function dispatch paired with some implicit scope stapled to your functions
undata: why?
asciilifeform: dafuq's the point of mopless clos
mircea_popescu: Adlai oh, you involved with the project ?
asciilifeform: that's like cockless man
asciilifeform: dulap!!!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cockless man is sitll not woman!
asciilifeform: aha.
Adlai: pls. https://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple/graphs/contributors
Adlai: sykopomp was satoshi to my usgavin
mircea_popescu: fucking github.com. "Loading contributions…"
asciilifeform: the pitiful object systems that lack even basics like 'mixins' are not merely cockless, but armless, legless
mircea_popescu: take yer javascript an' shove it. fucking ajax things.
bounce: next you'll be saying ruby is the future
undata: haaaa
mircea_popescu: ruby is the failure
mircea_popescu: closest it gets to future.
asciilifeform: the ruby by yukihiro 'i half-learned common lisp, i confess' matsumoto ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: this represents a 200% greater loss than last year while revenue doubled. <<< yeah, the time to short the pos approaches.
mircea_popescu remembers riding rimm all the way down.
undata: python would be if not advisable, forgivible if someone ripped the classes out
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: hmm do comments not yield trackbacks? << wut ?
undata: and added type annotations
Adlai: in ze end, ve vil al be speking german...
mircea_popescu: undata well they made their own web.py class structure, back then
asciilifeform still can't grasp how a programming system having 'global interpreter lock' became a beloved tool
undata: because people are followers and it wasn't an informed decision
asciilifeform only has one theory, 'good-cop-bad-cop symbiosis' with perl
bounce: power of the crowd?
undata thinks random shuffling among the things people are capable of
asciilifeform: no, power of the frying pan
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I remember rejecting perl; finding pythong as the best alternative
Adlai: the GIL is good for limiting the amount of toes you can shoot off at once
decimation: they didn't teach lisp in those days
asciilifeform: who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist
Adlai: do they teach lisp in any days, these days?
undata: man, this is the generation of programmers that thinks nosql is a great idea
asciilifeform: no.
undata: nobody knows shit.
asciilifeform: the folks who attend uni, sometimes even worse than never hearing of it at all, learn 'LISP'
decimation: asciilifeform: as in some ancient turd?
asciilifeform: that is, a deliberately archaic variant that brings back all the dark age stereotypes (slow, no iteration constructs, poor i/o)
asciilifeform: this generally ruins folks for life on the concept itself
undata grumbles about a bunch of JS developers farting out things like couchdb
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist << i don't run a windows machine. for me ms might as well not exist. however, i did get apple powered tablet to check out their game marketplace.
mircea_popescu: don't forget that. apple isn't a tech company, it's a media company.
asciilifeform: ^ different thing here
mircea_popescu: like LMVH, but exactly.
asciilifeform has a collection of apple gizmos for similar purposes
mircea_popescu: apple it's what yahoo has aspired at all these years. if they had any sense, they wouldn't have hired melissa no clue, they'd have hired jobs back then
Adlai: they've made some nice hardware too
mircea_popescu: Adlai in the sense of gucci bags, nice.
asciilifeform: afaik 'yahoo' was 'mmm' from day 1.
Adlai: well yes, that is a valid sense of the word
mircea_popescu: girl-nice, not boy-nice
decimation: asciilifeform: as in 3M?
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: !s mavrodi
assbot: 0 results for 'mavrodi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mavrodi
asciilifeform: ;;google mavrodi mmm
gribble: Sergei Mavrodi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Mavrodi>; MMM (Ponzi scheme company) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM_(Ponzi_scheme_company)>; Новости МММ-2012 - page screenshot of ...: <http://3py4p4ods8eqivzcenynzr9rp7gt35bzg399i2tksesul6wmpyfe1nsawtno.com/news/>
decimation: ah multilevel marketing
asciilifeform: pyramid.
Adlai: dunno, some of apple's earlier hardware was boy-nice too
mircea_popescu: and they nearly went bankrupt with it.
asciilifeform: who, exactly, sells 'boy' nice ?
asciilifeform: today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the chinese.
Adlai likes his lenovo thinkpad
mircea_popescu: ^ lmao
mats_cd03: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/motoring/article4248707.ece
asciilifeform prods barely-adequate lenovo
decimation: eh, chinese just build to us specs generally
Adlai: the IBM thinkpad is good too, and still running like clockwork, 12 years later
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform golden turd, remember ?
Adlai: although linux may have something to do with this
kakobrekla: golden turd? downed pilot.
mats_cd03: nvm paywalled, don't click that
asciilifeform: running like clockwork, 12 years later << so wat. i've a symbolics 3620 'running like clockwork' 28 years later.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla "golden phoenix"
Adlai: !
asciilifeform: golden turd corp. - will build anything, yes.
Adlai: do you actually have a lispm?
asciilifeform: !s 3620
assbot: 12 results for '3620' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=3620
kakobrekla: Adlai its for sale in bitcoin otc
asciilifeform: Adlai: not only, but it's for sale.
asciilifeform: aha
Adlai: vnhm?
Adlai looks in the otc book
mircea_popescu: cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products? << not really, no. other than "we don't have a clue how it's done but this is sekoority and so being mysterious is the next best thing"
mats_cd03: http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/10/27/1716243/black-swan-author-genetically-modified-organisms-risk-global-ruin << anybody else read this and think taleb is way off base?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 as in, didn't understand taleb's point ? or as in what ?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-08-2014#800350 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2014 16:12:29; asciilifeform: but no, somehow, 'gmo' equals what monsanto inc. does.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2014#827711 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 19:19:30; asciilifeform: except - they aren't banning monsanto garbage. they're banning 'gmo.'
asciilifeform: !s monsanto
assbot: 38 results for 'monsanto' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=monsanto
Adlai: where? http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?nick=asciilifeform
undata: mats_cd03: probably going to need a biologist to get a reasonable response
asciilifeform: Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-09-2014#846475 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-09-2014 23:50:40; asciilifeform: ;;sell 1 "Symbolics 3620 Lisp Machine. Photos: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=51" at 3 btc must pick up in Washington, D.C. area, this item cannot be shipped economically.
undata: who fucking knows; it's like anything with humans. we'll do it, I know that for sure.
undata: and so we'll find out
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tbh i always wondered about the "shipping economically" part. surely 100lbs worth of various things have been shipped before, even in the us ?
Adlai: ammo!
undata: it's like Elon Musk recently with AI. He's been calling that "potentially more dangerous than nukes"
undata: maybe so, but if it can happen, it will happen
decimation: in the us, with that weight class, one must deal with 'freight operators'
Adlai: asciilifeform: still for sale for 3btc?
mircea_popescu: go go teamsters union for btc!
decimation: can be done, just a pain in the ass
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: good question! answer: packing it in such a way as to guarantee safe shipping would be prohibitively expensive. the man i bought it from, david schmidt (last symbolics employee) refuses to ship his remaining stock, after a multitude of DOAs.
kakobrekla: STILL has stock?
asciilifeform: it's been a few years since i asked.
Adlai: (it's not in the b-otc order book anymore)
asciilifeform: write/telephone him.
asciilifeform: yes, still for sale
kakobrekla: just curious, not worthy of bothering the man.
asciilifeform: wtf did the otc go ?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: he loves being bothered.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform expired order?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: ancient grandfather type
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know such a thing as cpt/cip exists
mircea_popescu: doesn't have to be exw
asciilifeform: it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase.
asciilifeform: a 100kg ming vase.
decimation: surely symbolics shipped these when they were new
asciilifeform: plus the only way the buyer can be sure that it functions, is to power it on where it stands now.
asciilifeform: otherwise he can say 'scammer, shipped dud'
asciilifeform: (most of the extant units are duds at this point)
mircea_popescu: i guess this is a point
decimation: well, that's a good point, electrolytics and everything like that
asciilifeform: those aren't the problem
asciilifeform: the multitude of card edge connectors, mainly, are, plus the ancient hdd
mircea_popescu: that should be fixable no ? the card edges
asciilifeform: fixable how?
decimation: connector springs fail?
asciilifeform: if they snap - that's that
asciilifeform: the edges themselves. fiberglass pcb.
decimation: ah
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno, epoxy paste ?
mircea_popescu: people can reconstruct tits and virginity. you telling me they can't remake a board edge ?
asciilifeform: also have to appreciate the hdd. if it croaks, an equivalent unit will not actually make the machine go. os can only be installed from tape. i own neither the tape deck nor the tape.
mircea_popescu: !up JimDowJones
asciilifeform: a serious museum curator - such as david s. - could finesse these issues, yes.
Duffer1: asciilifeform it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase >> bonded courier
asciilifeform: this particular machine was, iirc, assembled from surviving parts of the DOAs.
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 he has a point tho, museums routinely pay exorbitant fees to move their fragile shoit around.
asciilifeform: bonded courier will test box at my house prior to shipment? lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yep.
Duffer1: no doubt, sorry i've only followed a few lines of the convo :P
asciilifeform: there are perhaps 20 people on planet qualified to test this machine.
asciilifeform: as in, verify that all the parts actually function.
mircea_popescu: so they will have to hire one.
asciilifeform: as things are now, i expect that it will be brought to my 'peine forte et dure.'
mircea_popescu: undertand, shipping is a solved problem. it just costs money, but it's not the case that consumer mail is all there is.
asciilifeform: i will certainly ask for it...
asciilifeform: i know full well that it's a solved problem.
BingoBoingo: For a sufficiently exorbitant price I may be willing to serve as courier within CONUS.
asciilifeform: i am swimming in 'solved problems' that i - in particular - cannot access the solutions to.
asciilifeform: because - elementarily - cost.
mircea_popescu: :D
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3XGFMWV.txt )
mircea_popescu: !b 3 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: it's better than swimming in fresh curetage product
mircea_popescu: if only marginally.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: !s shitburial
assbot: 3 results for 'shitburial' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=shitburial
asciilifeform seriously considered donating the box to 'smithsonian'
mircea_popescu: omg kakobrekla bitbet is down!
kakobrekla: ikr.
mircea_popescu: scam finally ran with the bitcoinz ?
kakobrekla: all 4 of them.
mircea_popescu: i knew mp would never pay on that berkshire bet.
decimation: I was listening to this podcast: http://www.theamphour.com/201-cheap-respins-and-a-time-machine-multiscience-mercenary-marketplace/ << the guy from the satellite company said he had to drive his small sats to the shake table
decimation: sats encountered more shock on the road
kakobrekla: hm, some berkshire bettors must be sweating.
mircea_popescu: punkman: asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << asciilifeform yes, nobody requires them to send sample units. something like "we're buying atmospheric noise off random.org folks" or "sixty free cs servers, and we suck the urand pool dry" or w/e.
asciilifeform: point is, why tell tale if no one will believe.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
TheNewDeal: no bitbet mirror?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal kako's workin' on it.
mircea_popescu: im just here eating cookies and giving him a hard time.
TheNewDeal: before I can even think it
Duffer1: usg dossing it?
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 nah moar like, random derp.
nubbins` groans
asciilifeform: decimation: sats encountered more shock on the road << see also the famous film 'longitude'
mircea_popescu: this is beneficial tho, i had some good lolz reading the support tickets earlier in logs
nubbins`: punkman, a code snippet from your deed processing routine plz?
TheNewDeal: example?
Duffer1: i can imagine mp lol
decimation: yeah most pendulum clocks didn't do well in a swaying ship
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#899087
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 02:16:07; mircea_popescu: "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut."
Duffer1: panic attacks areen't fun
asciilifeform: decimation: nah, the scene where harrison's opponents contrieve to have his clock shipped from one town to another on a suspension-less oxcart
mircea_popescu: punkbot yeah can deedbot be os yet
TheNewDeal: that link was like dejavu
BingoBoingo: http://robrhinehart.com/?p=1152 << Oh, YCombinator guy who imagines he killed food pretends to do the same for water and sanitation
decimation: asciilifeform: I bet you had alot of sympathy for harrison
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to make omlet, you need to break eggs!
TheNewDeal: nubbins` was asking for a deed snippet
TheNewDeal: oop was getting trashed
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo if only he could be teamed up with templeos guy.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal i'm just trying to verify one of these things but it's hard if i don't know the process
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know it was listed like 5 times in da log ? most recently an hour ago ?
TheNewDeal: I feel ya, I would like to learn as well. Seems like an incredibly useful tool
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: At least TempleOS is fun in a retro way. Future archaologist may imagine it was actually widely used by a large sect
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo they could solve DREAMS dude.
BingoBoingo: Or make all of the sleep REM
nubbins`: mircea_popescu yeah and there's something more to it than that, because instructions as given don't work
nubbins`: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
mircea_popescu: "don't work" is the best error message, after... anything else.
asciilifeform: 'guru meditation error'
mircea_popescu: at least that has a stack trace, something.
nubbins`: fair enough
nubbins`: following the instructions as provided does not result in the same private key
nubbins`: how else would it not work? :S
mircea_popescu: you could list the private key you got.
mircea_popescu: so we can verify you did in fact follow the instruction rather than honestly think you did.
nubbins`: working with genesis deed: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
nubbins`: first, sha256sum: fb53b9449532fbca07a611572ae4424932e36c7ce492785a9a028bb019cb78a0
nubbins`: in base58: Hv5NuwL5sSvAvWQWSQGDehN5ysrfPvxoVdosrWfk3kAB
gernika: mircea_popescu: Can you recommend a good neighborhood for a short stay in Buenos Aires?
mircea_popescu: gernika are you rich ?
nubbins`: sha256sum again: 049aebffb61c7f2497a11a1d70bf2756ceb0d1b259823bf1e9b70ff617911325
gernika: no
nubbins`: base58 again: JyeP2YHXHzHr8HtyAf2cq5bLRMwuKH5hCWBYoPdqrfe
mircea_popescu: gernika if you like to hang out with expats/foreign kids the palermos and perhaps ricoletta.
mircea_popescu: recoleta*
gernika: mircea_popescu ok. had been looking at palermo.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`'s host kicked him off the internets because he has been posting base58 strings to irc.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` ty!
asciilifeform: you all doing the 'sha(sha(...' by the neck until dead thing?
decimation: maybe he put a comma after?
mircea_popescu: decimation i think he omitted the comma after.
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/10/ayo-im-tired-of-hearing-people-saying-blockchain-technology/
mircea_popescu: 1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case.
mircea_popescu: so the more likely hypo is "osx fucks up characters yo!"
nubbins`: so for a single deed, trailing comma or no?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu impossibru ;p
mircea_popescu: i think always trailing comma, but anyway, your 1st sha is off ?
nubbins`: sec
asciilifeform: fucks up characters yo << recall also how various turdware mutilates quotation marks.
asciilifeform: (not sure if this is at play here)
mircea_popescu: i guess best practice, "1st check deed signature, then hash to verify deed".
mircea_popescu: goose and gander process.
nubbins`: er yeah, i don't get the same shasum as you at all
nubbins` frowns
mircea_popescu: nubbins` see how much better life is here in the paradise of proper error messages ?
mircea_popescu: http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator << this agrees with me btw.
nubbins`: wait, no, there we go
nubbins`: reading it from a file here produces a different hash
nubbins` raises eyebrow
mircea_popescu: clearly you are in charge of your computing.
mircea_popescu: cazalla http://qntra.net/2014/10/ayo-im-tired-of-hearing-people-saying-blockchain-technology/ << nice.
nubbins`: clearly :/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe? << for the record, description is not strictly a belief-driven phenomenon. consider at its most basic, schooling. teacher describes to you grammar. do you believe ? no, if you're in any way sane, not right off. but eventually what was a hypothesis gets tested out.
mircea_popescu: the wot, incidentally, works on exactly the same premise. one can make any declaration one wishes. it's not believed per se, but that's irrelevant. as time goes by confirmation either mouts or does not.
asciilifeform: in this case - belief.
mircea_popescu: i don't see how a case can be different from any other in a system where "one can make any declaration"
asciilifeform: namely, in the case of the physical coins, the only way to know whether you'll be fucked is - when you are.
mircea_popescu: business is not a matter of certain truth.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/38DD41W.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 3 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: the way to know how long your cock is is to ask god, because obviously measurement will yield an error.
asciilifeform: let's rephase - the only information you will ever get re: being fucked, in the case of the physcoins, is being fucked.
asciilifeform: *rephrase
mircea_popescu: not so. this is like saying "the only way to identify boys from girls is as you're moaning".
asciilifeform: how exactly can mr. physcoin prove that he did not use mersenne twister for N....N+k for some N?
mircea_popescu: you can at the very least obtain the "most likely to fuckceed" information on a set of identifiable, different providers.
asciilifeform: how?
mircea_popescu: compare fuckhistory.
asciilifeform: for physcoins - that's like measuring proton decay.
asciilifeform: hasn't happened, afaik.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, it occurs to me that while some start-ups succeed, a vast majority suckceed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is much weaker than your original statement tho
asciilifeform: if i recall, that was, that none of these folks have much incentive to speak up re: process
mircea_popescu: and this is a cognate of "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends"
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: similarly of, "i have no interest signing other people's code"
mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, ima make a post about, cause this is starting to coallesce in my head.
asciilifeform has interest! but not for phree
mircea_popescu: brb.
asciilifeform: actually on second thought - better hypothesis for the physcoins - atavistic, Ur-fear of being pwned
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends" << WoT isn't Facebook...*sigh*
asciilifeform would sign code, if some loony were to pay what the kind of labour that is involved in honestly signing 'will die by this' actually costs...
asciilifeform: even something as pedestrian as 'valgrind' is laborious for a large turdatronic system.
kakobrekla: actually costs... < well, your life.
asciilifeform: lives - cheap. quality work - costs.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what's an alternative to Valgrind?
asciilifeform: not using c/cpp/associated hardware.
asciilifeform: and valgrind is not a magic pill
asciilifeform: any more than 'lint' is.
thestringpuller: heh
asciilifeform: (who here even remembers lint.)
mircea_popescu: me.
asciilifeform: ^
mod6: me too
asciilifeform not alone in lintitude
thestringpuller: you guise r old
mod6: i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium
mod6: *legal too :D
thestringpuller: mod6: i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium <<< i was just growing pubes. now I don't feel quite so old.
mod6: heheh
mircea_popescu: i had my first legal drink in... 1990 ? something like that.
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/10/as-ipo-fails-breakout-gaming-plan-a-bait-and-switch/
mod6: so the day after the 'billennium', Sept. 9th 2001, I think that was the day that rummy was like "Oops, we somehow misplaced 1tn."
mod6: *the day after
mircea_popescu: one trillion ?
mod6: yeah. i was like "holy shit! is this guy kidding?! how do you do that?!"
thestringpuller: Didn't a shipping container with 100 billion or so get lost in Iraq in the early 2000's as well?
thestringpuller: nvm 12 bn
asciilifeform: in genuine benjies no less
thestringpuller: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1
undata: in the movie, the CIA stole it and started ISIS with it
nubbins`: okay, i just wasn't stripping newline from eof
nubbins`: so 1st shasum: 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0
nubbins`: to base58: 2zCwsSPNidLE9aEBTx4bh6Vrv7XrmJa9fAw8o8S8wrCX
nubbins`: second shasum: 581beb0a0aec036351e239da11595fe67c1cf5dc817019716999f2040b96e84f
mod6: ok, actually, it was 2.3tn
mod6 laughs
nubbins`: now what?
asciilifeform: 'Asked what had happened to the $8.8bn he replied: "I have no idea. I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it's important."'
mircea_popescu: nubbins` now import it ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform win.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu according to deeds.bitcoin-assets.com i'm supposed to end up with the brainwallet passphrase "BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ"
TheNewDeal: is it sha > sha > base58?
mod6: i remember watching it on tv
nubbins`: but i don't know how to get from the second shasum to that
mod6: they probably 1984'd it
nubbins`: TheNewDeal sha > base58 > sha > ???
TheNewDeal: sorry, was just a guess
nubbins`: > brainwallet passphrase > private key
mircea_popescu: nubbins` another 58 in there no ?
nubbins`: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
nubbins`: beats me!
mircea_popescu: a ok, so 2nd sha is the privkey. import it nao ?
nubbins`: doing an additional base58 doesn't produce BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
nubbins`: 2nd sha is not the privkey afaict
nubbins`: privkey is 5HsNWxt5bbBiSvVWbtXMBcoQTzfXgqyPEmDWcAymXdu1o9edra3
mircea_popescu: how do you know that ?
mod6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-F5NKAMdFc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m32s
nubbins`: because that's the private key generated from brainwallet passphrase BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
mircea_popescu: why's brainwallet passphrase enter in here ?
nubbins`: o.O
nubbins`: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
nubbins`: https://brainwallet.github.io/
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i don't get it ?
mircea_popescu: explain to me like i'm a nubbin!
nubbins`: :D
nubbins`: you put BXZ... into passphrase box
nubbins`: privkey 5HsN... comes up
mircea_popescu: so ?
nubbins`: pub address 149LB... comes up
nubbins`: since 149LB... is the public address indicated on the deed
mircea_popescu: you mean to tell me you reverse-engineered the privkey on the basis of the address ?
nubbins`: no, i mean to tell you i put the deed ID into brainwallet.org and it spit out the associated public address
nubbins`: if the deed ID is not a brainwallet passphrase, the laws of probability have broken down
mircea_popescu: 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 specifically ?
nubbins`: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
nubbins`: https://brainwallet.github.io/
mircea_popescu: i seem to get 1EppwHWgqBVo9TdZmLWjpNMp7w5zyrKokB ?
nubbins`: you entering BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ into "passphrase" textbox?
mircea_popescu: yes.
nubbins` raises eyebrow
mircea_popescu: 3ab7aea90551ed0bebc37b66dae9ff9f89e60e15d9cc85ab76c922322a88b033 5JG9SZLueh5AcJEvMeZrNT3oHEd27hhUrFydq4EVVWC2RoXFc3S
mircea_popescu: 1D37yABoLo7Ma4LeR6jW8ZhJxLXdQmsbsH if i select compressed.
nubbins`: uh
nubbins`: if you enter kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA ?
mircea_popescu: 19xKa5GkCBFM9XnEcHp1mjoiXi7x7oXKzn / 1G7XajvC1SChrQqBzVG7mDMkAaiT1jWU4G
nubbins` raises other eyebrow
nubbins`: anyone else around?
mircea_popescu: careful you might run out.
Duffer1: moo?
dub: i agree with nubbins`
nubbins`: Duffer1 http://brainwallet.github.io
nubbins`: try passphrases kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA and BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
nubbins`: paste addresses here
Duffer1: 1P2vYukzmiGp5B7otkDakvubVFmkiv7b3y
mircea_popescu: o.O
nubbins`: ...
mircea_popescu: nubbins` dude srsly you ended up with the magic salt
mircea_popescu: fell on the exact bundle pw ?
nubbins` slowly reaches for gun
nubbins`: no man
mircea_popescu: do you even know what the odds are ?!
nubbins`: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawa
mike_c: 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e / 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64
nubbins`: kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA as passphrase produces 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e
mircea_popescu: what the shit.
nubbins`: mike_c: +1
Duffer1: fascinating
nubbins`: something's fucked somewhere
nubbins`: with several of you
mircea_popescu: 19xKa5GkCBFM9XnEcHp1mjoiXi7x7oXKzn <<<
mircea_popescu: let me take a ss just in case.
mircea_popescu: maybe im putting it in the wrong hole.
nubbins`: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/196PrJjLTjXNNGLZsyT4YYdhA2b2EQjbZ3
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/brainlollet.png <
nubbins`: er sorry
BingoBoingo: I thought brainwallet was known to be retarded for some time
mircea_popescu: it has been, yes
mircea_popescu: this seems a novel sparkle tho
mod6: yikes
nubbins`: wtf?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` am i doing it right ?
nubbins`: yes
mircea_popescu: lemme paste the js
mike_c: mircea_popescu: whitespace matters
nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/OJXD9dP.png
mircea_popescu: mike_c where ?
Duffer1: 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e / 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64
mircea_popescu: i have no whitespace.
mike_c: in the passphrase.. if you have any
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i verified w/ a brainwallet generator i wrote myself
nubbins`: :s
mircea_popescu: so im on the brainwallet orphan chain over here ?
nubbins` throws up hands
mike_c: doge-brain
nubbins`: i have no idea what your cpu is smoking
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> i have no idea what your cpu is smoking26d8fca64af52e7712a8ed89e8fd34ce9b22ee5e2b1800776cbb1434c200825d -
mircea_popescu: it can't be the case it can hash here but not there, my cpu
nubbins`: <nubbins`> i have no idea what your cpu is smoking26d8fca64af52e7712a8ed89e8fd34ce9b22ee5e2b1800776cbb1434c200825d -
mircea_popescu: right.
dub: someone swapped your CPU for a potato
mike_c: this has gotta be a JS thing.
nubbins`: just put a single "1" in the passphrase
mircea_popescu: where ?
nubbins`: brainwallet.github.io
mircea_popescu: oh, make passphrase = 1
mircea_popescu: 17oEDveGfjVDuMyxbTHT6vw1Qvu2w2k9aV
mike_c: 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ
mircea_popescu: obviously.
nubbins`: 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ
dub: 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ
nubbins`: hahahah
mircea_popescu: well...
nubbins`: protip: "secret exponent" = sha256sum
mircea_popescu: 5a692302f4231563cfeedaec090567e2477cebfa67d27d016a017bcd64c01911 5JW712UGBYBxp3UGNSzcQBGnPdpAsQMRKcczWJP8SJ65hiHV5WU
nubbins`: if your secret exponent is not 6b86b273ff34fce19d6b804eff5a3f5747ada4eaa22f1d49c01e52ddb7875b4b then something is borked
mircea_popescu: something is defo borked.
nubbins`: well i guess your week just got interesting
mircea_popescu: i guess it helps that i just wasn't using braindamage.org anyway
nubbins`: anyway. does anyone know how the fuck deeds generates these brainwallet passphrases? :D
nubbins`: 'cause i'm at a loss
asciilifeform: brainwallet was known to be retarded for some time << brainwallet is a fully-automatic iq test.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1MVA1HS.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 1 ✂︎
nubbins`: seems like punkbot is the iq tes
nubbins`: t
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/braindamage.txt << js dump if anyone cares.
asciilifeform: unrelated: https://archive.org/details/HowToStartYourOwnCountry << a little riot of a book. no-bullshit guide to (failed) attempts at ab initio sovereignty. (i met the author in person, incidentally. fun fella.)
asciilifeform never knew it was on the net, was actually about to w4r3z sc4n it & post, then found...
TheNewDeal: what in the hell is that
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: old book.
TheNewDeal: nonono, the js dump
asciilifeform: deedbot?
TheNewDeal: thats what this is http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/braindamage.txt < ?
asciilifeform: or possibly 'brainwallet' ?
TheNewDeal: ahh
asciilifeform: aha brainwallet.
nubbins`: deeds is voodoo
nubbins`: 50 satoshi says it's generating random addresses
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-codewhores-and-camwhores/ << asciilifeform, everyone.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal it's the dump of js as loaded on my system, because somehow it doesn't come to the same results as other people here.
mircea_popescu: yes, brainwallet.org thing
asciilifeform oils, waits for clients
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: *actual results could significantly differ
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i may have said this in the past, but this is rather like my 'elephant procurement company' (gedankenexperiment)
mircea_popescu: ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3PXiV95kwA source )
asciilifeform: i.e., i will procure elephants in a day, but no one will like what it costs.
asciilifeform: ('this' being my - so far hypothetical - little shop of ho^h^hcode review)
asciilifeform: but, at least it promises never to substitute chair leg with sticker 'elephant' on it.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu fwiw the function calc_hash() in your pasted JS is the one doing the lifting
nubbins`: var hash = Crypto.SHA256($('#pass').val(), { asBytes: true });
nubbins`: $('#hash').val(Crypto.util.bytesToHex(hash));
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ricoletta << haw
nubbins`: you may be interested to paste a passphrase and in your JS console, type $('#pass').val()
mircea_popescu: no dragonfly here tho.
nubbins`: no chrome install either, i suppose?
mircea_popescu: heh. nope
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is on doom-playing box!
nubbins`: well i guess you just can't trust random web pages to generate your brainwallets ;D
mircea_popescu: nubbins` which works just as well, as i don't,
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER! it would seem to me this arrangement i got is actually stronger than youze
mircea_popescu: because if i were to use it, and you did get my pw... you still couldn't steal my monyz ?
nubbins`: certainly prevents dem fundz from being stole
nubbins`: "best locks in the world"
mircea_popescu: can.not.be.opened.
nubbins`: "where's the keys?" "what?"
asciilifeform: you still couldn't steal my monyz << reminds me of all the folks with misaligned heads on their floppy drives
asciilifeform: disk would read on given unit and only there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the frist time this happened, 5 inch drives, 11yo or so me & friends
mircea_popescu: it was fucking nuts
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: where do you think i stepped in it.
mircea_popescu: we took the unit on a sneakernet see what happens at everyone's house
nubbins`: ;;later tell punkman plz to provide complete pseudocode for deeds
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: this happened, perhaps three or four times, to mine, same era; father took it each time to a greasemonkey in some illicit cellar; it would come back - wrapped in a filthy oilrag - aligned.
asciilifeform: (never saw anything but ru drives misalign.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'The benefits of which one can’t evaluate, the drawbacks of which are certain.' >> obligatory >> http://www.antarctic-circle.org/Shackadvert2.jpg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there actually existed special allignment disks
mircea_popescu: you could fix the thing with a steady hand and an amp
asciilifeform: greasemonkey probably had.
ben_vulpes: http://www.antarctic-circle.org/Shackadvert2.jpg << sounds familiar
asciilifeform: today - i'd align the bugger myself
asciilifeform: it'd be a diversion.
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: but today, other toys.
asciilifeform: familiar << because ~everyone alive has seen it ?
mircea_popescu: for any good definition of "alive".
asciilifeform: aha.
decimation: asciilifeform: they were gonna launch a rocket tonight, visible from your house
asciilifeform: where?
nubbins`: .deed http://dpaste.com/0V5CXWK.txt
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again.
decimation: chincoteague
nubbins`: oh ya, must be signed
nubbins`: so much for testing simple case
decimation: wallops island, one of the orbital rockets
ben_vulpes: good god this log
ben_vulpes: what have you been doing
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's not as big as it seems.
decimation: interestingly, it uses "AJ-26" engines, which were 'commercially purchased' by usg from... the soviet moon program
asciilifeform: rocket << must've missed.
decimation: turns out they were sitting surplus in ukraine for 30 years
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski lol negatron brogrammer
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: now the grassfuckers in charge buy them and call it 'commercial technology'
asciilifeform: eh, fire sale.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i dropped out
ben_vulpes: ;;calc 9234 - 8414
gribble: 820
ben_vulpes: lines ago
ben_vulpes: HERE WE GO
decimation: we need to move off irc and onto a radio net
asciilifeform: rocket << rescheduled apparently
mircea_popescu: grassfuckers, this is a notable innovation.
decimation: yeah there was a boat in the 'no-boat' box
asciilifeform: https://blogs.nasa.gov/orbital
decimation: I think they are gonna try tomorrow
decimation: i'm sure it will be very bright and visible if it is a clear night
mircea_popescu: decimation are you going to fly any pilot drones around it ?
decimation: not me, I'm a zek
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> it's as if we were still using teletype << funny story, biz partner bought hisself some gps chips
ben_vulpes: had loads of fun discovering the parts of the unix stack responsible for baud rate etc
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no fucking way today's log is 10k
decimation: I bought a chip that puts out 1pps to discipline my ovenized quartz oscillator
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: lol off by 10x
asciilifeform: parts of the unix stack responsible for baud rate << i can recite these in my sleep now.
ben_vulpes: me, i mean
decimation: talk about ancient terminal cruft
ben_vulpes: wait no actually mircea_popescu u
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i always found it interesting that synchronous serial (between machines, notably) never caught on.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more. << so relevant
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead. << it's all a function of the small amounts of quantity involved.
decimation: asciilifeform: it is used in golden toilet projects
asciilifeform: in golden toilets, usually items like 'can bus'
asciilifeform: and the .mil equivalnet
ben_vulpes: <Abelincoln> << that this is not <Abelincoin> should have been enough to prevent !ups
asciilifeform: *equivalent
decimation: http://us.brainboxes.com/product/cc-530/2-port-rs422-485-pci-card-up-to-15-megabaud
asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: pisses out bits, does not wait for ack
decimation: ah I thought you meant synchronous with the clock line
decimation: http://jproc.ca/crypto/kit223.html << "* Ternary, Binary, (RS-232); or RS-422 "
asciilifeform: brainfart
decimation: apparently usg uses ternary serial
asciilifeform: classic teletype was 2x1trit
mircea_popescu: jurov: instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars <<< ftr i hate this idea.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.) << gripping hand?
mircea_popescu: stop making special characters yo. it doesn't scale.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they used some telepathic voodoo
decimation: asciilifeform: you know what the 'third' charcter was used for?
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, fucking in 3some with me there IS the only really fun thing
ben_vulpes: tbf i forget the nuances
mircea_popescu: fortunately, i don't scale.
decimation: parsing blocks of data...
decimation: delimiting blocks of data I should say
mircea_popescu: coinchimp.com << this website tried to hump my leg.
Duffer1: asciilifeform xenogenesis trilogy?
asciilifeform: Duffer1: aha
ben_vulpes: <undata> dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django << so much to this
ben_vulpes: <thestringpuller> undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js << RECANT
mircea_popescu: djanga lol.
mircea_popescu: like ganja for dyslexics
decimation: I've tried using some of those python 'frameworks'
decimation: ends up in the garbage
decimation: there's something about trying to make one library to rule them all that attracts a certain kind of busybody
asciilifeform: decimation: 3^3 == 27, can now type.
decimation: asciilifeform: you are implying you can encode the entire alphabet evenly
mircea_popescu: <decimation> there's something about trying to make one library to rule them all that attracts a certain kind of busybody << word. this is EXACTLY the dynamic involved.
asciilifeform can't picture 'django' without picturing the tarantino film
mircea_popescu: psychologically immature fucktards trying to protect themselves from their own insecurity with the world at large.
mircea_popescu: BUT at least back when they were making django they weren't making systemd
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS
ben_vulpes: > non retarded object system
ben_vulpes: > common lisp
asciilifeform invites anyone, anywhere, to make this statement false
ben_vulpes: > not sure if trolled
asciilifeform: entirely serious.
ben_vulpes: there's a non retarded object system?
asciilifeform: if i can't meta-object, it's retarded
asciilifeform: and, so far, there's precisely one - where can.
ben_vulpes: meta object?
ben_vulpes: lol 2 lines down
decimation: asciilifeform: on a teletype it's easy to send ternary, just add another symbol
asciilifeform: !s kiczales
assbot: 0 results for 'kiczales' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=kiczales
decimation: traditionally they were 2-tone fsk, add another tone
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes see, parsing is not as good as compiling.
asciilifeform: !s metaobject
assbot: 0 results for 'metaobject' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=metaobject
asciilifeform: wtf
mircea_popescu: come back tomorrow ?
ben_vulpes: search is a day slow
ben_vulpes: interpreting beats compiling again
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: interpreting << my cl system has no interpreter at all.
mircea_popescu: nubsy quits too much. why are canadians such quitters ?
ben_vulpes: i kid, i kid.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> major bender or something. << unlike our regular minor benders
mircea_popescu: decimation: why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits? << gpg escapes the dash because it uses a dash-cvomposite as a special char.
decimation: yeah, I see the bind they were in
ben_vulpes: cvomposite - is that a cvasi composite?!
decimation: need to send 7-bit ascii to denote limit
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: cvoopositor.
ben_vulpes: CvLOS
decimation: still, there are plenty of control characters they could have used
decimation: like 0x02
asciilifeform: decimation: nope.
decimation: why not?
asciilifeform: decimation: try it on your terminal / cut&paste system / www turdamatic
ben_vulpes: <Adlai> the GIL is good << aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
asciilifeform: ... email gizmo, bidet.
mircea_popescu: nah, they get wiped everywhere
asciilifeform: ^
decimation: yeah that's enraging
mircea_popescu: you can't even rely on /n staying put
mircea_popescu: constantly s/\r// etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall rng model 1 test ?
mircea_popescu: yeah lol. it even got us.
decimation: here's 32 control characters that you can't use.
asciilifeform digs for link
asciilifeform: fscking retardatrons drop chars silently
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what'd you have them do, replace it with Q ?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> yes, still for sale << fucking rob him already
ben_vulpes: if its so damn valuable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it occurs to me... since it can only be picked up in person, you should trade it for sex.
asciilifeform: l0l
decimation: so I guess the alternative is to base64 encode the patches?
asciilifeform: retch
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> recoleta* << and where for the fleeing usian pauper?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes chacarrita ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform better idea : base-x encode, x = version number.
ben_vulpes: i liked belgrano, seemed modest.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes about the same place.
decimation: why not use ITA2
decimation: if we want to be backwards compatible, might as well go back to 1920's era teletype machines
ben_vulpes: anyways
ben_vulpes: did anyone get in touch with bluematt?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes who'd go over you to do it ? an' why ?
ben_vulpes: well put that way
ben_vulpes: ;;gpginfo bluematt
gribble: Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.
ben_vulpes: ;;seen bluematt
gribble: I have not seen bluematt.
decimation: ben_vulpes: is the latest patch still yours? I haven't seen mention of others
ben_vulpes: decimation: calling that a patch is charitable - more an excision
ben_vulpes: and i've no idea if it's the most recent - there's no patch tracking tooling in place
decimation: no worries. I find the stripped-down distribution much easier to study
ben_vulpes: i'm studying the regtest phenomena of 0.8.whatever
ben_vulpes: it's glued in with the glass of the chainparams class
ben_vulpes: my rage is indescribeable
ben_vulpes: now not only must i study testnet but also this regtest thing
ben_vulpes: and, by proxy, chainparams.
ben_vulpes: it's not *so* bad, clearly.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu would have that by the act of complaining i bring down more cpp upon my own back
decimation: what's regtest do?
ben_vulpes: chain generation off network.
ben_vulpes: "regression testing"
decimation: heh
ben_vulpes: if you dig into chainparams and main.cpp (iirc) you'll find such joys as the "stop generating a chain after 1 block is found so that...reasons"
decimation: lol
ben_vulpes: the thing isn't actually all that impossible to reason about
decimation: so is 0.5.3 incompatible with the existing testnet?
ben_vulpes: just - find all the places in which there's a testnet mention and try to figure out how to implement an off-network chain
ben_vulpes: obviously the answer is a class with state safely segregated within it
ben_vulpes: decimation: have not yet tested, do not think that is the case.
ben_vulpes: well, logged up
ben_vulpes: i'll mail matt tomorrow
ben_vulpes: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x0A82509767C7D4A5D14DA2301AE1D35043E08E54
ben_vulpes: AT ALL OF HIS EMAILS
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> my rage is indescribeable <<< i have an intuition.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, is charter signed and deed'd yet ?
hanbot: so here's a game for y'all: http://thewhet.net/2014/illustrated/
mircea_popescu: ahaha these are great!
hanbot: :D
mircea_popescu: bwahhah oh that pot. win.
mircea_popescu: "Feces are almost entirely deceased gut bacteria and water. I massacred my gut bacteria the day before by consuming a DIY Soylent version with no fiber and taking 500mg of Rifaximin, an antibiotic with poor bioavailability, meaning it stays in your gut and kills bacteria. Soylent’s microbiome consultant advised that this is a terrible idea so I do not recommend it. However, it worked. Throughout the challenge I did n
mircea_popescu: ot defecate."
mircea_popescu: im not entirely sure why this sort of idiot is being maintained on artificial life support.
mircea_popescu: usg, you whore of bezzleatron, you got some 'splainin to do.
mircea_popescu: "In lieu of showering I sprayed myself with AOBiome’s custom skin bacteria blend. Body odor is caused by the emissions of proliferating skin bacteria, as unique as a fingerprint. The Nitrosomonas eutropha taking over my skin now metabolizes ammonia into odorless nitrite and nitric oxide. Success!"
asciilifeform channels BingoBoingo to suggest humane ballistic pill for sufferer described above
thestringpuller: Who the fuck eats Soylent with no fiber in it?
mircea_popescu: this idiot.
thestringpuller: Jesus these idiots who don't know how to feed themselves are starting to just baffle me.
hanbot: i don't mind idiots experimenting on themselves, but the access to podium has gotta go.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if bluematt (who was he?) doesn't appear - one of us must do the deed ?
mircea_popescu: !up petahash
asciilifeform: idiots experimenting on themselves << we all experiment on selves.
asciilifeform: writing about it - another matter
asciilifeform: e.g., http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-09-2014#824100
assbot: Logged on 10-09-2014 00:36:11; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: used own replica of old soviet mask, anode on eyelids, cathode on occiput
mircea_popescu: this is not experimenting.
mircea_popescu: experimenting is still a term of art.
undata: mircea_popescu: germs are dirty; obviously he's as clean as possible
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: writing about it - another matter << reminds of the people who take lots of psychedelic drugs and put the doses, timeline, and effects in a journal.
mircea_popescu: as stupid as possible, granted. once that is granted, nothing else can further be achieved. he can't be anything "as much as possible" hence.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: alex shulgin ?
undata is waiting for the inevitable early deaths of the soylent believers
mircea_popescu: eh, the curse of technology. nobody fucking dies for being stupid anymore.
undata: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/03/article-2780022-1DBFAFC600000578-405_634x422.jpg << doesn't he have a bit of a weird flush to him?
asciilifeform: nope, the death is on instalment plan.
BingoBoingo: Dude's colon is going to have more yeast than a brewery
undata: vice looked into their "factory" and found rats and mold
asciilifeform recalls reading of 'internal brewery' disease that leaves sufferer permanently pickled
mircea_popescu: waitwut ?!
undata: asciilifeform: yeah, causes you to be drunk, right?
asciilifeform: there's a non-zero natural output of EtOH
undata: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/09/17/223345977/auto-brewery-syndrome-apparently-you-can-make-beer-in-your-gut
asciilifeform: there we go.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Every now and then someone's digestive system has alcohol producing yeast become the dominant microflora
asciilifeform: year after year, i wait for a report of someone bottling this beer.
mircea_popescu: sounds kinda unhealthy
asciilifeform: it is inevitable.
BingoBoingo: Incredibly unhealthy
mircea_popescu comes from cattle country, is proud carrier of long-selected lactoguys
undata: asciilifeform: ha, the gut beer? *shudder*
undata: but if people will drink this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak
asciilifeform: aha 'monkey coffee'
asciilifeform: well-known.
asciilifeform: does pediwikia have 'list of foods which are literally shit' ?
undata: I question anyone without an aversion to shit
undata: asciilifeform: almost certainly
mircea_popescu: undata women develop tolerance, you know.
undata: seems necessary
undata: I still question them
undata: reminds me of my twin sisters in diapers, cribs opposite each other in their room
undata: I come home from school and they've had a shit war, hurled it at each other
BingoBoingo: rifampicin seems like an exceedingly poor choice for a colonocaust
undata: I learned something about life that day.
BingoBoingo: Traditional used against C.Diff is normally Vancomycin
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i don't suspect the guy actually acts rationally.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That was given when he decided to sacrifice taking healthy shits for "water" conservation.
asciilifeform read that piece, assumed this stunt was 'on a bet' or the like
asciilifeform: if anyone has similar bet in the future,
asciilifeform: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2014#722626
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2014 00:35:11; Mats_cd03: after 1 no pill a day for 4 days during a field exercise, i was literally full of shit
asciilifeform: ^ cheaper method.
mircea_popescu: unrelated, http://40.media.tumblr.com/e4e0d98960f22144fd64a840fc10b61b/tumblr_mi30xlcPrf1qhwfqoo1_500.jpg
BingoBoingo: The classes of bacteria intrisically unaffected by rifampicin includes many unpleasant members. It seems the biggest class though is enterobacteria... so named because they are often normal intestinal flora...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'ilsa the she-wolf' ?
mircea_popescu: adam robertson shot. no idea who the chick is
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/_MissMiranda < her.
undata: weird nostrils
mircea_popescu: http://36.media.tumblr.com/a732d5f00de5cd0650434edcade808f9/tumblr_n8vwreF1mK1rmrwgqo1_500.jpg << the latest in french coiffure.
pete_dushenski: "Arthur Levitt, the longest-serving chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, is joining the advisory boards of two bitcoin-focused companies. As an adviser to Atlanta-based BitPay, a bitcoin payment processor, and Vaurum, a Palo Alto-based bitcoin exchange for institutional investors..."
pete_dushenski: dear cazalla http://pastebin.com/ZkaJe0fg
asciilifeform: incidentally, is there any alternate hypothesis re: bitpay that does not involve it being a btc intake valve for usg's 'waterfall' dumpatron?
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell hanbot I submitted an answer to your comment que
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they didn't start as one. but anyway, either their cash runs out in a few months or it does not.
mircea_popescu: if it does not, the explanation available is exactly one.
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: not like atlanta is crawling with rich, entrepreneurial-minded folks or anything.
mircea_popescu: Actually, what you really need is a platform that’s a community of communities. Ideally with cleverly designed software that can handle each community’s individual epistemology (something like Moldbug’s idea of ‘factional reputation’
mircea_popescu: dude seriously ? "moldbug's idea of the wot" ?
mircea_popescu: i think the one thing i can stand least about usians is not directly their ignorance, but their bald faced, undisturbedly firm conviction that being a clueless git is a-okay.
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean the world didn't start a day before i was born ?!?!!?!?!?!"
BingoBoingo: sha256 of my guess on which trilema url hanbot wrote about 86e9f3b06d8abfde4f1323725907a4c9ccb6017d7ec35250f63ba735b6edbd08
BingoBoingo: md4 for people with things to do, 1ca610d4844aed110d163cdc14b987fc
mircea_popescu: 86e9f3b06d8abfde4f1323725907a4c9ccb6017d7ec35250f63ba735b6edbd08
mircea_popescu: yup, same guess.
BingoBoingo: K
punkman: http://dpaste.com/0Z5HQ2H if anyone feels like sweeping some deedbot tests
mircea_popescu: punkman see your pms, apparently ppl can't go from deeds to privkey ?
punkman: lies
punkman: bundle: BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
punkman: sha256 of bundle: 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d
mircea_popescu: 0.0
punkman: brainwallet from exponent
punkman: 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64
mircea_popescu: punkman incidentally, why is "brainwallet" shoehorned in there ?
punkman: I dont use brainwallet, just trying to generate with diff tools
punkman: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 ^ matches just fine
mircea_popescu: how did you get 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d ? sha of the raw deed + a comma ?
punkman: no comma if single deed in bundle
punkman: just sha256 the BXZ... string
punkman: not sha256sum
mircea_popescu: uh ?!
punkman: errm dunno actually, does sha256sum add checksums?
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#899373
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 03:08:02; mircea_popescu: 1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case.
punkman: echo -n BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ | sha256sum == 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d
mircea_popescu: wait
mircea_popescu: you hash the bx? how you got tht ?
punkman: that is a deed hash, the "lite" bundle is all the deed hashes
punkman: if you base58decode the deed hash, you get a sha256 hash of raw deed
mircea_popescu: so. you take the deed as is, and base58 it ?
punkman: anyway, README on the way
mircea_popescu: kk.
mircea_popescu: ima be back laters.
adlai: ben_vulpes | <Adlai> the GIL is good << http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aadlai+the+GIL+is+good pls
assbot: 0 results for 'from:adlai the GIL is good' - #bitcoin-assets search
adlai: no wonder i hate getting any sleep
cazalla: pete_dushenski, thestringpuller is on it
punkman: decimation: is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time? <- it happened a couple times during testing, hopefuly the lords will provide adequate space in the future.
pete_dushenski: cazalla nice :)
punkman: ;;isup bitbet.us
gribble: bitbet.us is down
punkman: scam!
Naphex: i'm gonna start banning accunetix scans soon. its incredible how many "security researches" and hax0rs just try and run it all day
Naphex: and that damn PoS just gets stuck in the proxy's and downloading 5MB/s of data/s
punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/173Scbmm
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: listen, if smart people don't fuck whores, the poor girls are left with a very poor impression of maledom << was reminded of this as i watched the sopranos today.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell asciilifeform were you looking for this the other day vis-a-vis apple-1 ? http://www.contravex.com/2014/05/15/forget-cpi-inflation-is-measured-with-art/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWpm6_Y7ASI << Diamonds, not quite forever
punkman: so quartz tube doesn't burn?
BingoBoingo: Not as readily as diamond
punkman: reminds of getting people to try burning full water bottle with lighter
xiando: those are syntetic diamonds so it's not quite the same as with real. diamonds are big scam (what is debears corporation?) so go with those syntetic anyway if you want to waste money on that garbage
BingoBoingo: Diamond is diamond. Basically just incredibly high quality coal anyway.
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/ << many a change later...
pete_dushenski: sidescrolling fixetted, new font, new header image
pete_dushenski: faster loading too! at the cost of mike_c's bitbet plug-in, however
pete_dushenski: not that it was doing much tucked below the footer of 2k+ word articles.
pete_dushenski: though i quite liked the look and functionality of the plugin. alas.
pete_dushenski: the ladies will be back on the header one day. one day!
BingoBoingo: !up disident
thestringpuller: !up dnaleor
undata: http://onerng.info/
undata: ^ thoughts, criticism?
thestringpuller: !up sgnb
thestringpuller: !up CheckDavid
punkman: undata: looks decent at a glance
punkman: do you have a specific use-case in mind?
undata: maybe an air-gapped wallet on raspberry pi
undata: dunno, just saw it on hacker news
RagnarDanneskjol: ''Our generator makes random streams of bytes - they're generated by random quantum processes and/or thermal noise - they're don't however present a perfectly randomly distributed bit stream''
RagnarDanneskjol: seems a not so random source - I'd guess its thermal noise is within a relatively narrow range
undata: hm, dumb
Naphex: http://www.issihosts.com/haveged/
undata goes to bed
RagnarDanneskjol: the rf receiver noise gen is kinda cool/weird
adlai: "dumb"? doesn't this just mean you can treat it as providing less entropy than the number of bits it spits out?
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, if i understand the question
CheckDavid: Thanks thestringpuller
CheckDavid: What about throwing dice? Lol
CheckDavid: Or coin flipping?
Naphex: CheckDavid: get a server to do that soon?
CheckDavid: Naphex: ah I see. Must be automated right?
Naphex: yes
CheckDavid: There's not enough entropy in the regular sensors of a computer?
Naphex: CheckDavid: depends on how much you use
Naphex: for any decent cryptography work you'd need more then 200bytes available at any time
CheckDavid: 200 bytes of entropy?
CheckDavid: Is it hard to generate ?
Naphex: so if you're running openssl it shouldn't go down below 200 bytes of available entropy
CheckDavid: I'm not sure how that entropy is cached or generated.
Naphex: on linux kernels you have the value exported through procfs /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
Naphex: which gives you the amount of available entropy bytes
Naphex: revo ~ # cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
Naphex: 2023
Naphex: if you're doing cryptography work (ssl, keys using randoms) and this value is below 200. you have a problem to fix, fast.
Naphex: this is how entropy use from /dev/random looks like on a SSL gateway (reasonable amount of connections/handshakes)
Naphex: https://i.imgur.com/BSbrwMC.png
CheckDavid: How is the problem fixed naphex?
Naphex: !up CheckDavid
Naphex: CheckDavid: you get more entropy from a generator
CheckDavid: I see. All I know is I use is.random to generate my random stuffs
CheckDavid: Lol
CheckDavid: *is.random()
CheckDavid: *os.random()
CheckDavid: Damn auto correct
Naphex: CheckDavid: well good luck with that :)
Naphex: hopefully your os.random is secure :))
CheckDavid: I don't work in security so :)
Naphex: well what does your os.random() return?:P
Naphex: is that python os.random?:)
Naphex: if it is you should read the docs :)
Naphex: Almost all module functions depend on the basic function random(), which generates a random float uniformly in the semi-open range [0.0, 1.0). Python uses the Mersenne Twister as the core generator. It produces 53-bit precision floats and has a period of 2**19937-1. The underlying implementation in C is both fast and threadsafe. The Mersenne Twister is one of the most extensively tested random number generators in existence. However, being comple
Naphex: deterministic, it is not suitable for all purposes, and _and is completely unsuitable for cryptographic purposes._
Naphex: the last one beeing the doozy. "and is completely unsuitable for cryptographic purposes."
Naphex: so thats that, no need to be in security :)
nubbins`: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#899950
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 06:51:56; punkman: if you base58decode the deed hash, you get a sha256 hash of raw deed
nubbins`: genesis.deed shasum: 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0
nubbins`: converted to b58: 2zCwsSPNidLE9aEBTx4bh6Vrv7XrmJa9fAw8o8S8wrCX
nubbins`: != BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
punkman1: nubbins`: sha256 of raw genesis deed is 9c68d5c322a3f4212112c5eb1a68dffdb49d105c34256bf219581da524c90522
nubbins`: http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator
nubbins`: according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0
punkman1: you are copying it wrong then
punkman1: try decoding the base64 encoded deed and hashing that
punkman1: (unless that's what you did, then fuck me I gotta go check things)
nubbins`: decoded w/ https://www.base64decode.org/
punkman1: yeah all the copy pasting, messes with line endings
nubbins`: pasted result
nubbins`: same shasum
nubbins`: heading to work now, you may wanna check your code against these tools to verify everything
nubbins`: http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator http://lenschulwitz.com/base58 https://brainwallet.github.io/ https://www.base64decode.org/
cazalla: BingoBoingo, danielpbarron, you can unfollow my ugandan alter-ego, i have my own twitter now, figured might help with qntra'ing
danielpbarron: neato
punkman1: ;;later tell nubbins` according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 << that's because the CRLF line endings in the raw deed got converted to LF at some point in your process
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman1: (whatever it finds in the deed pastebin, genesis deed had CRLF, others might not)
punkman1: ;;later tell asciilifeform http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897500 < gpg has a –not-dash-escaped option pretty much made for signing patches
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if bluematt (who was he?) doesn't appear - one of us must do the deed ? << i have jenkins running with the blob locally, i'd just rather stand on bluematt's shoulders
ben_vulpes: i'd be thrilled to see what scripts etc he wrote and how he went about the en-test-harness-ifying of the thing
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell adlai just trolling. although concurrency...python...2015...
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: i doubt anyone cares for further derpage on the topic from me.
ben_vulpes: http://www.coindesk.com/mergertech-accepts-bitcoin-startup-sales-services/ << locals 'getting in' on the game
ben_vulpes: although i have a hard time imaginging which customers of a bezzletron service would touch btc. buying a loss for the taxbooks doesn't make much sense with the blackcash.
ben_vulpes: https://twitter.com/TheBlueMatt/status/514918359277002752
assbot: "we show that if an adversary is able to review this cryptosystem, a simulator can be constructed which solves the halting problem"-ethereum
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/DiabloMiner << diablod3 wrote a miner in common lisp?
ben_vulpes: nm fooled by github
ben_vulpes: $ gpg -k Corallo
ben_vulpes: pub 4096R/43E08E54 2011-03-06 [revoked: 2014-07-12]
jurov: <punkman1> ;;later tell asciilifeform http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897500 < gpg has a –not-dash-escaped option << lol the fine manual also says "You should not send such an armored file via email because all spaces and line endings are hashed too."
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.
ben_vulpes: http://gpg.nebrwesleyan.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=bluematt.me&op=vindex
ben_vulpes gives up
danielpbarron: !up sxejno
jurov: whoohoo: 'empty space' characters can be added to each line of cleartext, until the end of the line, without affecting the verification.
jurov: sauce: http://www.angelfire.com/pr/pgpf/pgpoddities.html ☟︎
jurov: that's prolly why dash escaped stuff is designed to survive the email
asciilifeform: undata: onerng.info << best lulz! this calls for a mini-review. ☟︎
asciilifeform: onerng.info << this gizmo is interesting to me because it uses exactly one sane design decision (rf shield); resembles mine from a distance. but inside - uses every single design mistake which i rejected. to avoid 'empty words,' i will name a few.
asciilifeform: 1) what kind of dope must one smoke to put a micro under the tin can with the analogue amp ?
danielpbarron: the '2' and '5' are swapped (in their dice logo) // such random!
asciilifeform: 2) http://moonbaseotago.com/onerng/schematic.png << vendor schematic. see bottom-right-hand, 'AP3105' switching voltage-booster. it's there because 3v is not enough to run an avalanche diode. guess how the booster works? ☟︎
asciilifeform: (usually a 100-300kHz oscillator!)
kakobrekla: heh
punkman1: command line deed grabber: curl -s http://deeds.bitcoinyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ | grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?=</text)" | base64 -d | sha256sum
asciilifeform: 3) the asinine RF noise sampler can be switched off. but does its tuning oscillator also switch off?
asciilifeform: 4) is an exercise for alert reader.
punkman: borked url there: curl -s http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ | grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?=</text)" | base64 -d | sha256sum
asciilifeform: onerng << there are two possible explanations for the above. one is that the author simply did not stop to think. and, well - the other explanation.
punkman: pretty sure it's the first one
punkman: everyone can make hardware! arduinos!
punkman: "looks decent at a glance"
bounce: that thing is usb, meaning it gets fed 5V. what then with the boosting from 3V?
kakobrekla: dont blame the arduino :)
asciilifeform: bounce: he boosts the 3v from the regulator. but doesn't matter.
asciilifeform: bounce: if you have booster, you have its switching oscillator and its harmonics...
bounce: sure. but the question remains, why have a booster at all? can't you run the thing off 5V directly?
asciilifeform: bounce: nope.
bounce: so you're stuck with a booster no matter what then.
asciilifeform: bounce: no booster in mine.
asciilifeform: bounce: this is the exact reason i went with johnson noise rather than avalanche.
asciilifeform: i cannot venture to guess about the author's thought process. perhaps there wasn't one.
bounce: probably a lot of "make it work" thoughts, not so much about "make it robust against adversaries"
asciilifeform: bounce: he certainly devoted verbiage to 'nsa diddles rng, defend yerself'
ben_vulpes: i am 12 and what is this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/qa/rpc-tests/conflictedbalance.sh#L40
ben_vulpes joins #bitcoin-dev
asciilifeform: punkman: gpg has a –not-dash-escaped option pretty much made for signing patches << it's broken.
asciilifeform: or rather:
asciilifeform: 'You should not send such an armored file via email because all spaces and line endings are hashed too.' -- man page
ben_vulpes: jurov: why bother checking body? instead maybe just check .patch.sig for l2 sig, and compare that to the file.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: spam control
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: no reason whatsoever why anyone not in l2 should have write-access to list
ben_vulpes: well if sig fails l2 check...
asciilifeform: presumably not every message will be a patch
jurov: i'm just exporing the possibilities
ben_vulpes: ah so this list is for comms as well.
jurov: right now im trying to diddle with mpex a bit
jurov: normally it does not accept same command twice
jurov: i mena same clearsigned turd
jurov: but add aspace to clearsigned cmd, and it goes
jurov: no need to clearsign again
punkman: does that also work with GPG comments?
jurov: don't see why not
punkman: so you can replay signed commands?
jurov: yes
punkman: well that's nice
asciilifeform: lol!
jurov: --not-dash-escaped helps with the spaces
jurov: but comments are tbd, thx for suggestion
asciilifeform for some reason thought there were serial numbers in mpex commands
jurov: asciilifeform: mircea wanted to add them
jurov: but it goes against means of "offline" delivery where you aren't certain stuff went through
punkman: you can encrypt commands to mpex key right?
jurov: yes mpex pubkey
jurov: i explained it better under the trilema article where he announced it
punkman: I wonder if there are any unencrypted commands in some pastebin somewhere
jurov: i thought only encrypted stuff can be submitted to mpex?!
jurov: !s jurov nixed
assbot: 3 results for 'jurov nixed' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=jurov+nixed
ben_vulpes: and clearsigned too
jurov: clearsigned first. obv now is clear that one must not ever leak
ben_vulpes: yes, encrypted because clearsigned as well.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: one of us must do the deed ? ... i'd just rather stand on bluematt's shoulders << wasn't talking about the auto-builder. rather, the use of brain to evaluate patches.
asciilifeform: jurov: lol, missed your rtfm re: mail
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i do believe that someone in the wot must read patches, yes.
ben_vulpes: bluematt appears to have revoked his wot ket.
ben_vulpes: key*
asciilifeform: !
jurov: at least in case of statjson mpex accepts the same ecrypted blob twice. so the point is moot.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not only read patches. judge.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: do you have the time and inclination to do this?
ben_vulpes: time will ebb and flow.
jurov: imo we can apply the same process as for patches. someone in da wot makes release, ppl sign
jurov: ppl will select themselves for this task
mats_cd03: kakobrekla: links on log1.b-a direct to log.b-a, which is down
kakobrekla: too bad.
Naphex: "Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'"
mats_cd03: such a tease
mats_cd03: if hes not a magician what is he? inquiring minds wish to know
ben_vulpes: .status
ben_vulpes: .balance
punkman: ben_vulpes: down for maintenance
ben_vulpes: ah
punkman: apparently I got to resend transactions manually if network fails
punkman: maybe some recommendations for easier wallet?
ben_vulpes: what are you using again?
ben_vulpes: electrum?
punkman: electrum
Naphex: what do you need a wallet for?
punkman: Naphex, bot sends transactions to notarize gpg-signed messages
Naphex: so why do you need a wallet?
punkman: to send transactions?
Naphex: well just sign the transactions and send em to a stable node
punkman: that's what electrum is doing
Naphex: you can use my node if you want to propagate or push
Naphex: i usually mantain around ~400 connections
Naphex: https://bitcoin.btcxchange.ro/ for https web or bitcoin.btcxchange.ro:8333 for bitcoin p2p
ben_vulpes: hey punkman how should deedbot be fed multiply-signed documents?
Naphex: https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/ latency is around 37ms for P2p
punkman: ben_vulpes: do they look any different?
punkman: but maybe good idea to test what happens in gnupg library
punkman: ben_vulpes: make me one?
ben_vulpes: it's left to users.
ben_vulpes: what i'd prefer is a text blob and detached signatures.
ben_vulpes: but that's not what you've got implemented.
ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc.
ben_vulpes: gets ugly.
punkman: it will take unencrypted but compressed messages
punkman: example http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/HeJW5pnfz
ben_vulpes: how do you get pgp to spit such out?
punkman: --sign instead of --clearsign
punkman: (plus --armor)
ben_vulpes: right yeah
punkman: also for reference, multisig msg with: gpg --clearsign -u derp -u herp
punkman: will test later
punkman: apparently not possible unless you have all the keys
ben_vulpes: ...
ben_vulpes: was going to say.
punkman: solution towards end here: http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2013-July/047118.html
punkman: is possible
ben_vulpes: just append each signature
asciilifeform: http://www.wired.com/2014/10/verizons-perma-cookie
asciilifeform: ^ my isp, best isp, lol
TomServo: asciilifeform: This is only for wireless clients correct? Though, why wouldn't they also do the same to wired customers?
asciilifeform: wired << afaik they do.
TomServo: Seems the article only mentions phones and wireless.. unless I'm missing it.
asciilifeform: wired also diddled, for at least some subscribers, according to rumour mill
mircea_popescu: cazalla http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/#comment-109313 << check that shit out.
mod6: Hi all, ben_vulpes and I have a new revision for the foundation charter. http://dpaste.com/16Z4M68
TomServo: asciilifeform: *sings* What a wonderful woooorld...
mircea_popescu: mod6 ben_vulpes "This charter establishes the existence of a virtual organization whose mission is to maintain the Bitcoin reference client." <<< maybe strike client from there ?
mircea_popescu: the bitcoin reference. it's a thing.
punkman: reference implementation perhaps
mod6: ok, noted.
mircea_popescu: reference implementation also works
mod6: i think it did say that at one point. i don't have my previous revisions handy atm.
mircea_popescu: anyway, looks pretty good!
mod6: 'reference implementation'
mod6: ok good deal :)
punkman: ok, so I think current deedbot implementation would only look at the last signature in multisig message. How should it work ideally?
mod6: it looks at both and enters in a row for each?
mod6: s/both/all/
mod6: *shrug*
mircea_popescu: punkman that sounds fine actually.
mod6: ok gotta run for a bit, will be back later to continue the work on getting this thing finished.
punkman: ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot
punkman: maybe I'll make it display the additional signatures somehow
mircea_popescu: why ?
mod6: <+punkman> ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot << just put this in the wiki then so we'll know
mircea_popescu: and how do you deal with the case where string1+siga+string2+sigb ?
mircea_popescu: ("I like melons"signed:MP"He means lemons")signed:Freud
punkman: so both electrum and supybot crapped out in slightly weird way today, I'll try to get it back up by tomorrow
punkman: 1 day and 18 hours for the first run
mircea_popescu is curious to hear details.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'll do something-or-other for your foundation thing, so long as it doesn't involve actual work
mircea_popescu: statement of redundancy department :D
asciilifeform: expert elephant delivery available also!
asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/10/peak-empire-take-two.html
undata: asciilifeform: have you documented your rng?
asciilifeform: undata: the only formally published aspect so far is a set of high-res photos. but it, plus everything i have said about rng, is ten times more than enough to recreate it for a determined and impatient student.
mircea_popescu: !up WolfGoethe
asciilifeform: undata: in case this was not clear, complete design documents -and- rationales will be published (including in dead-tree form).
mircea_popescu: undata plus he's on the hook to document it once it actually gets made.
mircea_popescu: shit i gotta type faster.
asciilifeform: i expect that the truly serious folks won't even touch my hardware, but recreate it from spec...
punkman: asciilifeform: maybe someone will come up with through-hole component version?
punkman: I'd bake a batch
undata: asciilifeform: great! we await your teachings.
jurov: punkman do it with 99% fine zamak cover bearing "First Edition" label
asciilifeform: punkman: it'd be all-throughhole now if the components were actually available in that package.
mircea_popescu: lol fine zamak cover. why so mean
punkman: was partlist published in reports?
asciilifeform: punkman: for rng - yes! you can probably build it now.
mircea_popescu: partlist, quality of results summary, all sorts of things.
asciilifeform: gotta love the cribbing f-students - 'onerng' etc.
asciilifeform: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#900085 << for those who slept
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 12:47:11; asciilifeform: undata: onerng.info << best lulz! this calls for a mini-review.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, others involved with deturdification - unless you prefer emacs for this, see tools like 'xxdiff' for illuminated patches.
mircea_popescu: didja write teh minireview ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see log below linked line.
mircea_popescu: shit listen, i'm not yet done with the day's log, gotta read it in order or else errors.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no reason to hurry.
mircea_popescu: vita brevis!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well, that - yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but for sapper who hurries - brevis-er.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/is-it-better-to-have-missed-once-and-never-known-it-than-to-have-never-missed-at-all/ unrelated.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rm_rf_upnp-asciilifeform.patch.sig << related
asciilifeform: ^ vote of confidence
punkman: hah
punkman: oh thought you were signing rm utility, never mind
asciilifeform: lolno, ben_vulpes patch
mircea_popescu: bitcoin finally reached in 2014 the place where it would have been in 2009 had satoshi been able to find and motivate people rather than find himself desperately shooting into the public forum.
mircea_popescu: a better example of the problem of resource allocation can never be devised.
mircea_popescu: five fucking years and a horde of jackals, all because there isn't nor apparently can there be a god out there to whom you pray and who gives orders adequately.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu << i must point out that the turd's merely been chucked onto the turdlathe. no one as of yet solved anything.
mircea_popescu: hence 2009.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^ see, vex can stfu.
mircea_popescu: anyway, a better demolition of the myth of "open source" and wikidiotarianism could also hardly be devised
bounce: apparently there wasn't a people person around who could find and organise the people to cook up bitcoin; needed a lone engineer to lay the ground work.
mircea_popescu: i think it's deeper than that. i doubt the job was possible at all, without an outright onslaught from metaphysics.
mircea_popescu: two legions of choir angels and a third column of succubi might have sufficed, then.
punkman: maybe it was 3 wizards and a code monkey, who's to know?
asciilifeform: eh, we do not yet know what suffices. because 'it' has not yet happened.
bounce: you shoulda been there and called up the heaven+hell agency and order the right actors for this show, eh
mircea_popescu: ^ stan's.
mircea_popescu: bounce i had nfi idea, at the time, and definitely would have been horrible for the role.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem here, you need some experience to be able to think.
punkman: !search bitc
assbot: 19 results for 'bitc' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bitc
bounce: what's this now?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu << would like to be optimistic, but we will soon see who remains motivated once the turdlathe demands actual brain cycles. right now it's target practice against paper 'opponents.'
mircea_popescu: mebbe.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the sense that zapping dead ifdef's is not especially arduous.
mircea_popescu: mebbe.
mircea_popescu: i shall say mebbe again to you, if you do not appease me!
punkman is willing to work on specification at some point
ben_vulpes: reference client was a total fat-finger on my part
ben_vulpes: reference impl is correct language
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: sapper trains with...
mircea_popescu: dynamite dildoes ?
mircea_popescu: "failure is a pleasure" brand
mircea_popescu signs off on that orlov piece being total idiocy.
mircea_popescu: Naphex: i'm gonna start banning accunetix scans soon. its incredible how many "security researches" and hax0rs just try and run it all day << like five hundred times in a row, too. because who knows, maybe it changed ?
Naphex: mircea_popescu: aye, or just lots of monkeys running around shooting accunetix trying to get bug rewards lol
mircea_popescu: kinda a good reason to not explicitly / publicisedly offer rewards.
mircea_popescu: there's about a quarter billion idiots kept alive against nature by various welfarist governments' welfare programs, who exist like shitworms, everything is either a food dispenser or nothing to them.
mircea_popescu: so they keep suckling on doorknobs, shit like that.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: aye. oh well i just firewall drop them after 10 accunetix hits
Naphex: some even change ip
Naphex: i mean..
mircea_popescu: next thing you know you gotta wear gloves because the socialist idots have made an endless supply of doorknob droolers.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski apparently the chaos people loved your blog.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: undata: ^ thoughts, criticism? << check it out, it's got the metal shield like asciilifeform's!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: read my turdreview
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm shooting the guy an email
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol! can't help but wonder what he'd answer.
kakobrekla: my bet : he wont
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpse, others: loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform.2-https_snipsnip.tar.gz
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla what odds you giving on that ?
asciilifeform: ^ build, not live-fire tested yet
kakobrekla: ;;isup bitbet.us
gribble: bitbet.us is up
kakobrekla: oh damn.
mircea_popescu: jurov you gotta make that mailman thing baby, otherwise " mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others" will become a header here.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: orlov piece being total idiocy << the most recent guest authored piece?
mircea_popescu: TomServo whatever asciilifeform linked earlier. something with "total base acreage", as fucking if.
mircea_popescu: next he can make a review of datacenters based on total board / cpu surface o.O
mircea_popescu: clearly, it has been stagnating for 50 years.
TomServo: ahaha, yes. What's your take then, as far as timeline goes?
jurov: mircea_popescu: sigh... you may note my occassional rant related to it
mircea_popescu: no i only note things i like.
jurov: plus, whole idea has arisen at friday, while i had busy weekend
mircea_popescu: TomServo you ever played civ ?
TomServo: mircea_popescu: Long ways back, yes.
mircea_popescu: jurov anything good ? pics of hot twinks coming ?
jurov: did not take photos, sry
mircea_popescu: TomServo you ever encountered that situation where you had a smaller island, but pushed tech, surrounded yourself with fortified mech infantry and railroaded all the firlds back when the idiots around still klonked each other with knights
mircea_popescu: but then 1000 years later they got their own armors and well... game over ?
mircea_popescu: the us is going against a twin bottleneck, both social and technological. the us born boys of today are weak, the us tech of today is dull, no more edge. like that, it can only be a brothel.
mircea_popescu: jurov you know, photos can be half the fun.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of half the fun : was at japanese restaurant yest, discovered that the eating sticks, if unbroken, make the best nipple clamps ever. chicks love them, not strong enough to hurt, strong enough to majorly enhance sensitivity.
bounce: hookers and blow, what more do you need?
TomServo: mircea_popescu: can't say I recall that exact scenario - but I see your point. Better not be another 950 years of this BS though!
undata: ha, love the social commentary sprinkled with courteous bdsm tips
diametric: https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2014/10/28/r7-2014-15-gnu-wget-ftp-symlink-arbitrary-filesystem-access
asciilifeform: ^ mega-lulz!
mircea_popescu: lol!
mircea_popescu: i wonder if this one was ever exploited.
Naphex: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2kkmj2/justcoin_is_shutting_down_withdraw_your_funds/
mircea_popescu: what was that even ?
mircea_popescu: assbot: "we show that if an adversary is able to review this cryptosystem, a simulator can be constructed which solves the halting problem"-ethereum << that made precisely no sense. wut ?!
rithm: justcoin failed to read the specs on ripple
punkman: question is can I redirect random HTTP url to ftp:// when I detect wget
asciilifeform: 'If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: 1) what kind of dope must one smoke to put a micro under the tin can with the analogue amp ? <<< ahahah wut.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: look at it. there it is.
mircea_popescu: and 'AP3105' , kay, amateur hour.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: kitchen toilet.
mircea_popescu: but... "it should be ok for most usecases".
mircea_popescu: which is how you'll get kiled in the marketplace. if the market is 100 units, and 90 units are needed to support a well made unit, and 90 buyers could be satisfied by a shitty unit,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i posted enough re: rng that any kid could bloody well copy it. but no, must have 'improvements.'
mircea_popescu: if the shitty unit makes it to market first then the well made unit is never happening.
mircea_popescu: so get on with it!
jurov: punkman you can check for user agent, but why?
mircea_popescu: jurov he's trying to put a dent in his hosting bills ?
punkman: jurov, to apply linked exploit
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: against the f-students, we have pills. but it would be hasty to administer the pills as of yet.
mircea_popescu: if i have to pass another xmas w/o roast beast and cardano i'll paint you blue.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: might have to give you one of mine.
asciilifeform: gentlement: patch review pleeze ?
mircea_popescu: just get on with it!11 exlamation points
mircea_popescu: jurov: but add aspace to clearsigned cmd, and it goes << where are you adding the space ?
jurov: in the end of STATJSON
jurov: read the gpg quirks i linked, it's eye opening
mircea_popescu: uh you telling me gpg takes "STATJSON" and "STATJSON " as validly signed by the same signature ?
jurov: lol 11 exlamation points.. yknow, asciilifeform is still gathering blood, sweat, bile, etc. to put into cardano software
asciilifeform: jurov: ichor.
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah, stat/statjson are not protected against replay. this, on the principle that the response being encoded anyway, the attacker needs the key to do anything useful.
asciilifeform: the attacker needs the key to do anything useful << unless i misunderstand, enemy can do blind replay?
mircea_popescu: 14:16:06 mats_cd03: kakobrekla: links on log1.b-a direct to log.b-a, which is down << umm no they don't ?
kakobrekla: links like to whatever people link to.
mircea_popescu: oh, he means inside the lines
kakobrekla: s/like/link
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, and get a blob coded to the owner's key, and now we know someone tried.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: possibly he meant 'bash' etc.
kakobrekla: hm?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: links
kakobrekla: there are log links in bash?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: bash link in log
kakobrekla: ah
jurov: punkman, kakobrekla: how do you get all the public keys from gribble?
jurov: in assbot L1/L2
kakobrekla doesnt.
punkman: I had it download the db backups every 6 hours
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/10/justcoin-exchange-closing/
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc. <<< used to be how mpex did ipo contracts, but it sucks.
mircea_popescu: now everyone signs a copy.
mircea_popescu: http://lessonslearned.org/sniff << not bad this
mircea_popescu: apparently websites can be useful even without web2.0 rounded corners javascript "design" bs.
mircea_popescu: actually, one should sometime do a count.
Naphex: so wait
Naphex: if justcoin is going down
Naphex: why is it still trading?
mircea_popescu: wow log finished. feels so good...
mircea_popescu: Naphex doesn't make any sense does it.
asciilifeform: gentlemen: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform.3-turdmeister-alert-snip.tar.gz << includes previous
BingoBoingo: Naphex: Insufficient thought disorder? Maybe they hope late panic trades might be favorable to their own orders?
Naphex: why would anyone give a shit to trade on a burning down closing exchange
Naphex: just get your funds out and move out
mircea_popescu: maybe you've not met the bitcoin crowd yet ?
Naphex: some fruad suspected
Naphex: related to some altcoin ripple run shit on your server hack
asciilifeform: no more turdmeister broadcast receiver!
Naphex: turdmeister broadcast receiver?
asciilifeform: !s nixing alert
assbot: 1 results for 'nixing alert' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nixing+alert
Naphex: asciilifeform: so that's what alert disabled?
asciilifeform: no reason at all why a true bitcoind ought to take direct orders from the turdation...
mircea_popescu: re the "how to start your own country" thing, the opening model is so fucking braindamaged it curls my hairs.
mircea_popescu: is there anything actually intelligent in here or am i throwing it away ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: strauss is a (now very old) man who was involved with some of the '70s derpistans (actual attempts at island 'nations' by american jokers). worth reading if only for zoological purposes. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: no but seriously, groups split off at that point when carrying the food (where ? they were fucking nomadic anyway) cost as much energy as the food provided ?
mircea_popescu: the sexual castration of us puritans is making them stupid i swear.
mircea_popescu: individuation is a sexual, not an economical phenomenon.
mircea_popescu: xiando hey, help me out here, what's that ancient chinese tale of the young man who found a young woman, and they fell in love, and they wished to be alone in the world ? so they suddenly were! and then wished for a cook, and suddely a cook appeared, and then kept wishing and soon enough were back at home ?
asciilifeform: strauss has 'zoological' data not available elsewhere, afaik.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, but my fear is, how much can be trusted in the "data" of someone so fundamentally confused. can one who can't count keep a useful count of anything ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: next you'll be asking about herodotus
Naphex: asciilifeform: so did you remove the fork alerts as well or just the alert-keying system?
mircea_popescu: i guess since im reading this under protest im gonna adnotate it.
asciilifeform: Naphex: keyed. -- and, you know, you can read the fscking code.
asciilifeform: not rocket surgery!
Naphex: asciilifeform: didn't quite pick up that turdmeister alert snip was a bitcoin patch to check it:)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he has a point tho. what happens if there's a fork ?
asciilifeform: dear glubb, read it
Naphex: i kept the alert system, don't have much problem with it and can easily be disabaled.
Naphex: but thats what i want for my core servers really. don't run walleting software on them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to reprhrase. "what should happen, if there's a fork"
Naphex: but i do want them to shut down in many cases and prevent any integrity breaches
Naphex: the chain will still be there
Naphex: for me to restart
mircea_popescu: Naphex the problem with this approach is that well, false security.
Naphex: how is it false security?
Naphex: it's not false security
Naphex: you run the route nodes to sync the data and keep a chain
mircea_popescu: well, not in itself, but if you end up relying on it then yeah
Naphex: you then run secondary nodes with spv to ease that data and make it more usefull
Naphex: if anything corrupts the main chain, the spv will pick it up
mircea_popescu: so if you run all this why'd you want random idiot to turn off your whole infrastructure whenever ?
Naphex: the main chain(fed from the trusted nodes)
Naphex: mircea_popescu: the nodes are all synced, the only thing he turns off is the ability to receive new transactions
Naphex: and thats pretty short, i can recompile it and restart it with alerts disabled in under 10mins
mircea_popescu: nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: we're discussing different things here.
Naphex: so thats not a huge downtime, alerts get notified and keyd so email all the rest
asciilifeform: ability to receive new transactions << and gavin should have the nuclear button for this why?
Naphex: temporary, be right back
mircea_popescu: it's unsanitary. that damned key is probably how he got his asshole extended in the first place.
asciilifeform: unsanitary << exactly. and, thus far, we are - sanitars.
jurov: http://mineforeman.com/2014/09/24/how-i-accidentally-hacked-the-igot-exchange/
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ^ qntra ?
BingoBoingo: I'll look at it
asciilifeform: anyone willing to review patches - read, ponder, sign. jurov can dump it all in turdatron later.
asciilifeform: also, am i the only one here with a pair of shears? get snipping.
asciilifeform: plenty of unambiguous garbage left.
nubbins`: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#900057
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 11:41:26; punkman1: ;;later tell nubbins` according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 << that's because the CRLF line endings in the raw deed got converted to LF at some point in your process
nubbins`: ^ CRLF line endings o.O
nubbins`: unless we've all suddenly decided to nominate Windows as the OS of choice, \r\n should not be within a thousand feet of this thing :D
punkman: it doesn't discriminate, whatever you feed it
nubbins`: it should replace \r\n with \n
punkman: original genesis deed had LF, dunno when they got in there, probably some text editor
nubbins`: otherwise how the fuck is anyone using anything other than Windows going to be able to verify deeds?
punkman: base64 was there for a reason
punkman: check out the one liner
nubbins`: one liner?
asciilifeform: which one of the chairmen runs winblows? fess up
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: SPEAK NOW
nubbins`: but srsly, \r\n --> \n going forward
nubbins`: do a regex replace, w/e, don't care
nubbins`: must be done
punkman: not rly
nubbins`: yes rly
nubbins`: it's a line of code
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: scissors? no. time today? perhaps.
nubbins`: otherwise you're essentially throwing up a huge "FUCK YOU" to all of us not using winblows
asciilifeform: bad enough that satoshi used (or convincingly pretended to use) it. i will not be signing anything of substance authored by a winblows user. cannot presume that he has sole control of his key.
asciilifeform: if any of you think this is unreasonable, please say why.
nubbins`: imagine every time you wanted to verify a deed, having to manually swap \r\n with \n
nubbins`: or having to check both versions because the deed could be using either
nubbins`: nightmare
mod6: windows? not me. i've done all my editing in vim
mod6: i don't own or use a single windows machine, and proud to have not for /years/
nubbins`: mod6 HIGH FIVE
mod6: ^5
chetty: I like the idea you know someone is using a potential bad key because ot that problem
asciilifeform: known users of kitchen toilets.
asciilifeform: quite elementary.
chetty: asciilifeform, not the most elegant way of putting it but you make a point
ben_vulpes: what precisely had \r\n?
ben_vulpes runs macos - admitted turd, but not windows
mike_c: what about /deed/asldkfjalsdkfgj/RAW/ that has raw message.
mike_c: and you can wget and not worry about line endings
asciilifeform: this thead is about things that must not be born, regardless of how easily killed.
asciilifeform: problems of provenance.
asciilifeform: !s monolith
assbot: 12 results for 'monolith' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=monolith
mike_c: whether or not you trust something signed by a windows user has little to do with deedbot.
jurov: ben_vulpes: wanna keys from the therealbitcoin.org bucket? to publish the charter and provisional list of patches
mike_c: having deedbot muck up the message it is given seems retarded.
asciilifeform: or, more pertinently, it does not matter that a cockroach is easy to crush. you don't want ten, nine, or one - in kitchen
jurov: unless you unanimously decided it will go elsewhere
ben_vulpes: jurov: sorry, don't understand the question
punkman: any interest in bot that announces key expiries and revocations in channel?
mike_c: yeah, ok, so we won't run deedbot on windows. what does this have to do with it mucking up messages it is given?
nubbins`: ben_vulpes genesis deed has \r\n
ben_vulpes: ho ho ho
ben_vulpes: not a chair problem tho
ben_vulpes: ?
asciilifeform: eh i might have stepped in wrong thread. but even so, where does cr-lf come from if no winblows in the loop?
nubbins`: ben_vulpes someone's chair ;)
mike_c: from the person submitting the deed is my understanding.
nubbins`: asciilifeform ask punkman i guess
nubbins`: i assumed he was using windows
punkman: genesis deed not signed on windows
jurov: ben_vulpes: to upload files and publish then to web
punkman: the house does have some windows though
nubbins`: however it happened, there's \r\n
ben_vulpes: oh!
nubbins`: and it would be extremely important to convert all \r\n to \n when publishing deeds.
ben_vulpes: yes sure that would be useful indeed.
mike_c: no, it wouldn't..
nubbins`: it would be extremely convenient for non-windows users
nubbins`: same thing, n'est pas? ;D
mike_c: to have a list of ways the deed that deedbot is given is modified before publishing?
mike_c: this is silly.
mike_c: it shouldn't fuck with the message at all.
nubbins`: silly is not being able to verify deeds because they use retarded EOL
punkman: it just pushes bytes around indeed
mike_c: so don't copy/paste.
nubbins`: how the fuck else am i gonna verify, transcribe by hand?
mike_c: i just said. have /deed/adsfas/RAW/
ben_vulpes: just reject crlf
mike_c: surely you have wget on ur l33t box.
punkman: curl -s http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLY | grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?=</text)" | base64 -d | sha256sum
punkman: but yes some raw url will be added
xanthyos: if i donate to startcoin i can get a free sterlingcoin cryptocurrency card!
xanthyos: Sterlingcoin is The Cryptocurrency of the UK & British Isles. << didn't realize btc was geographically limited
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> ^ CRLF line endings o.O <<<
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> it should replace \r\n with \n << it's cant, gpg sig'd
punkman: actually gpg doesn't care
mircea_popescu: o yes it does.
punkman: no genesis deed was LF, but deedbot got CRLF version and it passed
mircea_popescu: try feeding a \r\n blob to a linux version
punkman: it's in the manual, pretty sure
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if any of you think this is unreasonable, please say why. << it's a wot thing. does not matter one rat's ass what anyone thinks of it as long as you got a policy you thought out and are sticking to.
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> and you can wget and not worry about line endings << somebody's not read the log :D
asciilifeform: sticking to it << i will. but curious whether it makes sense to the rest of you.
nubbins`: :S
mircea_popescu: i can see it.
jurov: <mircea_popescu> o yes it does.<< same thing as spaces in the end of lines, you did not get it
jurov: line endings do not go into sig
jurov: unless –not-dash-escaped option
asciilifeform: option << which b0rks other things
mircea_popescu: jurov what i meant on this instance was that pasting dos text in linux gpg results in double line breaks and an unprocessable inpuit.
punkman: openpgp spec says normalize to CRLF I think
mircea_popescu: generally tho, the concept of "line" should not exist for gpg.
asciilifeform: we're paying and paying for the glass tty era, yes.
punkman: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4880
punkman: "The signature is calculated over the text data with its line endings converted to <CR><LF>."
nubbins`: gross
mircea_popescu: more reasons to reimplement pgp
asciilifeform: as if we ever were short on reasons!
hanbot: BingoBoingo wd, answered
nubbins`: "standard CRLF line endings"
nubbins`: who the fuck wrote this
punkman: "Also, any trailing whitespace -- spaces (0x20) and tabs (0x09) -- at the end of any line is removed when the cleartext signature is generated."
punkman: so there's a lot of ways to make dupe deeds
asciilifeform: who the fuck wrote this << lost souls
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's the "standard" tho.
mircea_popescu: it stays with gpg in about the same reason bitcoin stands with the derpitude coming out of the scamdation.
punkman: " As with binary signatures on text documents, a cleartext signature is calculated on the text using canonical <CR><LF> line endings." << wtf does this mean
asciilifeform: this is the kind of thing that will die because it must, and because we have blasters.
mircea_popescu: nothing.
asciilifeform: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-07-2014#774692
assbot: Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: results - and from this comes strength; the fight now turns, from a draining, futile floundering - to a merry, wrathful clobbering of a dying vermin, who with us - men - has nothing whatsoever in common. But it all begins - with nonparticipation.' (Беркем аль Атоми, articles. translation mine.)
chetty: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/11192385/Sex-with-21-women-lowers-risk-of-prostate-cancer-academics-find.html
asciilifeform: chetty: correlation/causation crapolade.
asciilifeform: !s grow taller
assbot: 3 results for 'grow taller' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=grow+taller
chetty: yeah but now you guys have another excuse
chetty: just like I found one that consuming chocolate is good for memory :)
BingoBoingo: <chetty> just like I found one that consuming chocolate is good for memory :) << No, people with better memory just remember chocolate === good
chetty: what passes for science these days connects dots that don't even exist, but I got to admit sometimes the answers they come up with are fun
mircea_popescu: how about having sex with 21 chocolates ?
chetty: messy
asciilifeform: iirc, chocolate plays important role in the lives of zoophiliacs...
mircea_popescu: wut ?!
asciilifeform: wut << bait
BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/d2f3xmw.png << Purported SEC letter to CEX.io/Ghash.io
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-start-your-own-country-adnotated/
mircea_popescu: not signed ?
mircea_popescu: link them to mine, tell them that's how it's done.
BingoBoingo: Found on reddit, so harder to tell if authentic. Fucking Amateurs!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu reads books linearly, lol. choked on the alchemy, missed the chemistry. (2nd half of item.)
mircea_popescu: gimme an offset ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'case histories' pp. 51
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://38.media.tumblr.com/e05942fb8be37747399f8b05b0e0398e/tumblr_n9x5cgrCxJ1th1e66o1_250.gif
mircea_popescu: ty.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually, very little chemistry, it's really a history of 'alchemists' - if that weren't clear
BingoBoingo: So Jstor is now following the #bitcoin-assets lead http://daily.jstor.org/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mkay, so i got as far as page 67. i fail to see why any of this drivel is either important or useful, and especially the conflation of "country" and "territory" seems idiotic.
mircea_popescu: this is no chemistry.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: alchemy. whose fault is it that the entire field consisted of it. afaik. (any successful micro-sovereigns in 20th c? of the ab initio variety)
mircea_popescu: heh, i missed the important line ;/
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Other than Sealand and the Hutt River Principality... I don't know of any that really come close.
TheNewDeal: mp are you reading that buchanan book?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-start-your-own-country-adnotated/
TheNewDeal: Ahh... was thinking of some blog someone posted the other day.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla:my bet : he wont << you lost btw,
kakobrekla: so what does he say?
TheNewDeal: And for the record : this was a joke directed at mikayla, and two lines later I stated I was only kidding "19:29:01TheNewDeal:Usagi will open one for you, just send him a,pm"
mircea_popescu: both answered, buncha stuff, seem reasonable enough guys. i sent them a link to webirc
cazalla: mircea_popescu: cazalla http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/#comment-109313 << check that shit out. <<< how do you know it's not his wife but him.. "not a bad guy"
cazalla: seems i drank too much last night and abused some people on twitter
mircea_popescu: i have no idea, it could be anyone. after all, woman's not in the wot.
mircea_popescu: cazalla do i have to fire you now because sjw outrage ?
cazalla: qntra is not big enough for people to demand my head but i'm sure that will happen in time
mircea_popescu: or else we lose all our advertisers ?
cazalla: don't forget that i will capitulate and apologise
mircea_popescu: or maybe the asswipes get to learn that they're being done a favour by being allowed to advertise, not the other fucking way around.
mircea_popescu: too much sjw-ing, too little abject prostration in thanks they've somehow not been killed yet, for no apparent reason.
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/3ae84b4671fbf6230b8b6a280badce59/tumblr_n6ww4xEcnY1t3oijno5_500.png << american psycho!
TheNewDeal: is she about to shit on that dude's face?
cazalla: TheNewDeal, something is protruding from that area
TheNewDeal: can neither confirm not deny?
cazalla: btw bottom left, xbox 360
mircea_popescu: i think there's some diddling involved
kakobrekla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHMmMgdcOSU
kakobrekla: >Antares Rocket explodes
TheNewDeal: this happen today?
kakobrekla: looks like it; http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
mircea_popescu: ya
mircea_popescu: seems decimation flew a drone there anwyay!
TheNewDeal: "Main engines at 108%"
dub: boosh
kakobrekla: just as i pasted the live feed link, they said "need to secure area cause there was crypto gear on board."
TheNewDeal: could have been the first bitcoin node in space?
TheNewDeal: asciilifeform wtf is this http://pastebin.com/rG1TxJt2
nubbins`: hi again
artifexd: !s openrng
assbot: 0 results for 'openrng' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=openrng
kakobrekla: hm, search be parsing downed pilots
kakobrekla: errr
kakobrekla: i mean logs.
artifexd: http://onerng.info/ << asciilifeform: Your thoughts on this project would be appreciated
kakobrekla: downed logs of downed pilots
kakobrekla: artifexd : see log1.
kakobrekla: discussed earlier
cazalla: fkn andreas
artifexd: kakobrekla: Will do. Thanks.
ben_vulpes: apropos only of rockets
ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIGVi_rMFGw
ben_vulpes: the throttling!
BingoBoingo: I call dibs on the USG Bezzel Rocket explodes qntra piece!
kakobrekla: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is down
TheNewDeal: ;;isup log1.bitcoin-assets.com
gribble: log1.bitcoin-assets.com is down
TheNewDeal: fuckfaces
kakobrekla hears fan slowing down due to increased shit intake
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/10/usg-bezzel-rocket-explodes/
jurov: what's the avg volume of the ddos?
TheNewDeal: http://dpaste.com/2AFFMTJ
mircea_popescu: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
mircea_popescu: what is this scam.
TheNewDeal: Posted todays logs up until a few minutes ago
mircea_popescu: !s daily
assbot: 429 results for 'daily' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=daily
jurov: kakobrekla: if it isn't terabytes, i can try setting up amazon cdn for you
kakobrekla: for bitbet im already waiting new boxen delivery
BingoBoingo: As matter of record I would like to advance as evidence Google News sucks the point the WKMG in Orlando was the only hit for the term "Nasa Explosion" within the past 12 hours.
kakobrekla: logs - anyone can host - i have an interface for that.
jurov: olay, let's try it with logs
kakobrekla: ;;ident jurov
gribble: Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com', is identified as user 'jurov', with GPG key id 677ABD62D0AEE7D7, key fingerprint BBB0A99950037551F533850A677ABD62D0AEE7D7, and bitcoin address None
asciilifeform sat in traffic jam, waited for rocket, didn't see it - then read #b-a and found live camfeed of it burning
asciilifeform watched that instead
kakobrekla: :D
asciilifeform: log dead ?
mircea_popescu: jurov Oct 21 16:41:51 <mircea_popescu>kakobrekla : i see your lulz and raise you my lulz. http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/qntra-bw.png << it's there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform log1 is up.
kakobrekla: ;;isup log1.bitcoin-assets.com
gribble: log1.bitcoin-assets.com is up
kakobrekla: hrm
artifexd: !isup trilema.com
kakobrekla: doesnt open here
asciilifeform: dead here
artifexd: ;;isup trilema.com
gribble: trilema.com is up
artifexd: Hmm
asciilifeform: also dead here.
artifexd: Yeah. Trilema isn't working from here.
kakobrekla: gribble is drunk
mircea_popescu: lies!
TheNewDeal: I'm not getting trilema either
TheNewDeal: probably just canada with their cups and strings internet
bounce: openbsd apparently dropping loadable kernel module support, so far without announcement. huh.
asciilifeform: crypto gear << yes, they use block cipher. (at least, this was officially proclaimed at one point. used to be DES, even. not sure about today)
mircea_popescu: uhm. i have no idea. anyone unable to load it, pastebin your dig response ?
artifexd: dig response?
kakobrekla: http://dpaste.com/0TAM4YV.txt
mircea_popescu: so does load ?
asciilifeform: nope
mircea_popescu: o.O
kakobrekla: indeed - no.
mircea_popescu: PING ( 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=273 ms etc.
mircea_popescu: how about that ?
kakobrekla: ping works
BingoBoingo: bounce> openbsd apparently dropping loadable kernel module support, so far without announcement. huh. << Not many actual uses of them in the first place.
bounce: linux loves 'em to bits
BingoBoingo: Looking into actual uses of them in ports it seems HP bios reflash utility was one of few examples.
BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel
BingoBoingo: bounce: Reading comments on different articles about the change everyone with a linux background seems conviced OpenBSD is shooting itself, when really there's different ways to make machines do things.
asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/36RbKjPp << dig
mircea_popescu: that'd be correct.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi idea why anyone'd not be able to get to it. esp if it pings ok.
mircea_popescu: Load Averages: 0.55 0.41 0.65 << the server is neither under heavy load nor actually split from teh interwebs.
mircea_popescu: ;;isdown trilema.com
gribble: Error: "isdown" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: ;;isup trilema.com
gribble: trilema.com is up
mircea_popescu: no, srsly ?!
kakobrekla: no worky
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: well this is an entirely new one.
asciilifeform: not a dns diddle either
BingoBoingo: BGP being messed with?
mircea_popescu: and it's not the firewalls either.
mircea_popescu: do you all have a broken implementation of syn cookiues maybe ?!
kakobrekla: ddos protektSON
BingoBoingo: http://www.coindesk.com/crypto-2-0-companies-rebuff-sec-crackdown-rumors/ << OMG Coinfire vs. CoinDesk showdown.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: you know they lied, you read it here what, a week ago ?
BingoBoingo: Eh, lied mislead... strong signatures could have made all of the difference.
asciilifeform: http://www.coindesk.com/senator-shumer-dark-web-fight << mega-lol
jurov: tcptraceroute trilema.com 80 results: http://pastebin.com/XWCKY1FE
asciilifeform: can reach here, with almost total packet loss
xanthyos: http://gyazo.com/6f0f948438a00594bc623cbb8d97723d
mircea_popescu: why the fuck am I able to get through to it no problem ?
mircea_popescu: !up petahash
mircea_popescu: !up elementofone
elementofone: hi everyone
petahash: hola
BingoBoingo: Hi elementofone
elementofone: whats up
BingoBoingo: Not NASA...
asciilifeform: meowmix.
elementofone: meow meow meow
petahash: friendly panda
elementofone: my cat loves meowmix
mircea_popescu: lol what did that rocket fall on anyway
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well pieces prolly cover a good area around the pad. Made it up a bit before going boom.
ben_vulpes: !down elementofone
ben_vulpes: !up elementofone
ben_vulpes: what's your question, elementofone?
elementofone: how much does 1 million$ equal in bitcoin?
elementofone: is there a dollar to bitcoin ratio on bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: maybe a few k's, if you're lucky.
ben_vulpes: ...
ben_vulpes: ;;calc 1000000 / [ticker --last]
gribble: 2808.19994384
elementofone: BEFORE YOU BAN ME
ben_vulpes: ya keep going please.
ben_vulpes: what are you looking to learn?
mircea_popescu: read the log. http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com
asciilifeform: bot
elementofone: whats a pussy bot going to do?
petahash: check out preev.com
petahash: its based on the exchange rate
petahash: turn off caps
elementofone: fine
elementofone: so 1 dollar equals 353 bitcoins?
BingoBoingo: !down elementofone http://buttcoinfoundation.org
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: 1 dollar equals, more or less, nothing.
mircea_popescu: rounded to the closest cent.
petahash: 1 bitcoin = $356 USD
ben_vulpes: ;;ident petahash
gribble: Nick 'petahash', with hostmask 'petahash!~petahash@d173-183-96-243.bchsia.telus.net', is not identified.
petahash: ?
danielpbarron: the exploded nasa thing was carrying "crypto equipment" according to CNN
mircea_popescu: a well.
petahash: link?
mircea_popescu: it's in teh log lol.
mircea_popescu: 22:47:16
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla:
mircea_popescu: just as i pasted the live feed link, they said "need to secure area cause there was crypto gear on board."
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Text source or details? Kind of assumed golden toilet crypto equiptment goes to space for both sides so the USians and Ruskies can plot on the subject of stabbing the other faction first in case relations become sour...
danielpbarron: i saw it on the tv in a bar
danielpbarron: and thought, "it's not every day i see the word 'crypto' on tv"
danielpbarron: not that i watch much tv