punkman: well that's that
Adlai: mircea_popescu: "is to pay" is a stronger statement than "if you pay, ..."
mircea_popescu: besides you know, they prolly go in different bundles, and in general, it's not the signature that's subordinate to the document, but the other way around
mircea_popescu: Adlai exactly.
punkman: http://www.wired.com/2014/10/world_passport/
assbot: Hacker Dreams Up Crypto Passport Using the Tech Behind Bitcoin | WIRED
asciilifeform groans
mircea_popescu: punkman https://blockchain.info/address/1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny << seem you got the url, and also check it out, regularly spent!
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny
punkman: mircea_popescu: oh good
joecool: oh cool it hooks into blockchain.info now, very nice
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
punkman: the bundle txs are unspent, if that's what you meant
asciilifeform: (re: the idiot 'passport' thing)
mircea_popescu: punkman no, they're spent up to about yest ?
mircea_popescu: so someone's on it.
punkman: no that's the balance being spent for each next bundle
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don;'t think the wired story has anything to do with anything. for one thing... they EXPIRE ?!?!?!
punkman: punkbot balance
punkbot: punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.01372 BTC (0.05 unconfirmed), enough for 124 more bundles.
Adlai: well, people expire...
mircea_popescu: punkman 14r4VdZFYJnGG52B6w9Th7oKjGXU1pDzKX is spent say
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from my first impression, it looked like some savage found a piece of our microscope left in the jungle
mircea_popescu: nah, not even that advance.d
punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah just noticed, that's good
punkman: faucet incentivizes verification
asciilifeform: check out the shitgnomes in the comments. 'use keybase!'
mircea_popescu: punkman yuppers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform disqus is disabled here. no comments.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not missing much
punkman: I'm guessing nubbins` will be printing the first batch of La Serenissima passports ;)
mircea_popescu: but i mean the passport comes as a temp freenode:#bitcoin-otc:blabla string
punkman: well maybe novelty item then
asciilifeform: 'passport', if you must, is pubkey
asciilifeform: the rest, is merely proving that you have it.
mircea_popescu: well wait. identity is pubkey. the rest is the passport.
mircea_popescu: ie, proving you have it.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: that's a better formulation.
punkman: and signature of the kingdom>
punkman: btw http://www.icao.int/security/mrtd/pages/ICAOPKD.aspx
assbot: ICAO Public Key Directory (PKD)
asciilifeform: ^ work of satan
mircea_popescu: y ?
asciilifeform: pki
asciilifeform: and guess who has master key.
mircea_popescu: but i mean ... they just reused the https crapolade.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: it's not work of satan, it;'s work of whoever was the demon of sloth
asciilifeform: god of shit. sterculius.
asciilifeform: or... 'Hie thee to hell for shame, and leave the world, Thou cacodemon! There thy kingdom is.' (richard iii)
asciilifeform: (cacodemon, as seen in 'doom'.)
Adlai: passports as private key... remind me of some gag where a bitcoiner gets some "paper wallets" for his fiat account and discovers that his keys are printed in cleartext on every page
mircea_popescu: you mean like bank account numbers ?
Adlai: https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/239wv9/so_i_went_to_open_a_checking_account_todayhow/
assbot: So I went to open a checking account today...How these banks have stayed in business this long is beyond reason. : Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: fun story : romania's dictators had nfi that they will be shot. because srsly, who would shoot obama, and why ?!?!?!
mircea_popescu: eventually, as things got out of control they ran off in a helicopter
mircea_popescu: the woman, being also a mother, took some money with her for her children.
mircea_popescu: these consisted of accounts drawn against the national (and only) bank
mircea_popescu: and the passwords were their names.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is in no way surprising.
mircea_popescu: one of those things only ever surprising in retrospect.
mircea_popescu: punkbot balance
punkbot: mircea_popescu: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.06372 BTC (0.0 unconfirmed), enough for 579 more bundles.
asciilifeform: who would have dared to monkey with the tyrant's bank account when he was on the throne.
asciilifeform: and who gave half a rat's arse after.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, another fun story :
mircea_popescu: romanian defence minister got sent to russia on business, including to buy some fighter jets.
mircea_popescu: dictator-wife goes through dictator paperwork, wtf, why do "we" need planes.
mircea_popescu: guy decides not to buy planes anymoar.
mircea_popescu: aparatus desperately calls to moscow, pls to not sign anymore
asciilifeform: elena the 'chemist' ?
mircea_popescu: "too late". yes, her.
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform: al schwartz had many good elene c. stories
mircea_popescu: so it is decided that... fancy this... they'll simply not pay.
mircea_popescu: ie, ignor the matter altogether.
asciilifeform: the faux 'chemistry' really grated on him
mircea_popescu: at which point ppl are like wtf, this is some sort of a kindergarten act ?! who ever heard of this
mircea_popescu: (summer of 1989)
mircea_popescu: ftr, grep -v -f is atrociously ineffectual for large files.
mircea_popescu: is this for a good reason or just bad gnutella ?
asciilifeform: aside from the fundamentally bigger set ?
mircea_popescu: shouldn't grep -v -f (x rand(x)) y rand(y) be a function of x*y ?
mircea_popescu: this looks more like it's x^y or some shit.
Adlai: exceeding various cache sizes?
mircea_popescu: shouldn't it just tree the f ?
Adlai: pure speculation: it caches the list of -f patterns, then goes over the input lines, testing all patterns on each line. this would have a sharp performance drop as the patterns overflow caches.
asciilifeform: the fact that no one here is willing to answer this question by attempting to read the source, says something about the latter.
Adlai is busy worshipping sterculius
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform have you LOOKED at grep source ?
asciilifeform: yes.
mircea_popescu: im not paying for a week of graybeard to go into its guts tyvm.
asciilifeform said this for a reason.
mircea_popescu: anyway, stercum means shit. sterculius sounds like the god of diarrhea
asciilifeform: ;;google sterculius
gribble: Sterquilinus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterquilinus>; STERCULIUS - the Roman God of Manure (Roman mythology): <http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/roman-mythology.php?deity=STERCULIUS>; Urban Dictionary: Sterculius: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sterculius>
asciilifeform forgets where and how
Adlai: indeed, i'd like to deal with at most one turd at a time
punkman: here's a thought: .sign AQLSTVsF http://paste.com/detached_sig.txt
punkman: it just goes in as a regular deed, but punkbot knows how to verify sig
punkman: (where AQLSTVsF, any deed id)
punkman: and btw, you can even post binary data as deed with :gpg --sign --armor
punkman: could allow larger limit for teh lords
punkman: (32kb currently)
jurov: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/crypto-ipos/
assbot: Feds Begin Their Crackdown on Bitcoin Stocks | WIRED
asciilifeform: '...a crackdown that could affect promising Bitcoin 2.0 projects such as Ethereum, MaidSafe, and Counterparty.'
asciilifeform groans
asciilifeform: and the verbiage is straight from last week's turds
punkman: "Keirns was doing what came naturally. He had a business idea, and he created a fund."
mircea_popescu: punkman so basically what, it verifies an alt-sig for the body of a prev deed ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, because the scams hadn't already been cracked down upon a year ago, right here.
mircea_popescu: the insanity is strong with these guys.
punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah, I'd sign your raw deed, then send detached sig to bot
mircea_popescu: so how does it publish it ?
mircea_popescu: and where does it put it ?
asciilifeform: (yes, said it before, but) http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
punkman: the detached sig becomes the body of a new deed, included in bundles as usual
asciilifeform: not 'insanity' as such, just very arduously pretending that we don't exist.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate wired -1 such horribru coverage from the it kindergarten fishwrapper.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user wired has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: ow shit.
asciilifeform: l0l!
mircea_popescu: ;;unrate
gribble: (unrate <nick>) -- Remove your rating for <nick> from the database.
mircea_popescu: jesus the wot is packed so thight you can't even throw a rock at the swamp without hitting someone
mircea_popescu: ;;unrate wired
gribble: Successfully removed your rating for wired.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, "we're ~cracking down~ dontcha know, notwithstanding that we have no authority. this activity without effect could nevertheless which could affect scams we sponsored to try and destroy this thing but it didn't work out".
mircea_popescu: such false->anything->anything->anything genius.
mircea_popescu: punkman so how would a 3rd party verify the contentless signature is anything ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00058756 = 11.5749 BTC [+]
punkman: mircea_popescu: I guess referenced deed id is included along with detached sig
mircea_popescu: so then what was the benefit ?
mircea_popescu: srsly, it's good as it is, no need fixing.
mircea_popescu: the fact that thew system offers a strong guarantee that any deed can be verified in 1 step is valuable.
mircea_popescu: that value needn't be squandered.
mircea_popescu: "Unfortunately, earnings reported in corporate financial statements are no longer the dominant variable that determines whether there are any real earnings for you, the owner. For only gains in purchasing power represent real earnings on investment. If you (a) forego ten hamburgers to purchase an investment; (b) receive dividends which, after tax, buy two hamburgers; and (c) receive, upon sale of your holdings, aft
mircea_popescu: er-tax proceeds that will buy eight hamburgers, then (d) you have had no real income from your investment, no matter how much it appreciated in dollars. You may feel richer, but you won’t eat richer."
mircea_popescu: guess who.
decimation: taleb? you?
mircea_popescu: actually, buffett.
mircea_popescu: but in 1980.
decimation: heh. I wonder if he used this as a defense of his anti-dividend policy
decimation: lol http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/07/codecademy-reskillusa/ << recycle jobless 'workers' to skilled web developers in three months, please please usg you pay?
assbot: Codecademy Teams Up With Online And Offline Coding Schools To Create ReskillUSA | TechCrunch
mircea_popescu: well... promising 2.0 businesses such as ethereum could use more css...
decimation: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00057487 = 7.1284 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/b83yTQaz
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com
punkbot: pete_dushenski: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
Adlai: !s urbit
assbot: 117 results for 'urbit' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=urbit
punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17J6NAKN
decimation: have you used urbit Adlai?
Adlai: nope, just encountering this now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17169 @ 0.00056483 = 9.6976 BTC [-]
punkbot: Confirmed bundle 17J6NAKN9aiFNcdesz417hXZqtixLk6wpw | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17J6NAKN
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19900 @ 0.00056101 = 11.1641 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/09/la-serenissima-sovereign-declares-tithe-3/
assbot: La Serenissima: Sovereign, Declares Tithe³ | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16371 @ 0.00056331 = 9.2219 BTC [+]
RagnarDanneskjol: i like the declaration but fuck the tax bs for gots sake man. I refuse to sign it! not cool pete
cazalla: RagnarDanneskjol, i don't think anyone said you had to sign it
RagnarDanneskjol: i didnt say they did. just passing an opinion
RagnarDanneskjol: in particular the words it is established and moral requirement are unconscionable
asciilifeform: RagnarDanneskjol: ask mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: he wrote it.
RagnarDanneskjol: ahh ok, I'll take it up with the boss then - thought it originated w/ pete. thanks
asciilifeform: as i understand, he is trying to somehow deal with the little problem of no one standing up to unwedge 0.5.3 block loader.
asciilifeform: none of the folks here seem to have the magic combo of skill, inclination, and free time
RagnarDanneskjol: i get it. there is quite a bit of volunteer support about to flood this channel for this purpose
RagnarDanneskjol: qualified support
asciilifeform: about to?
asciilifeform: what are they waiting for?
decimation: to sign a deed?
RagnarDanneskjol: me
RagnarDanneskjol: I need to round up the troops and do some crash coursing in wot, etc first
asciilifeform: if the troops are able and willing to follow jurov's turdatron rules (as well as produce quality work) - great news.
RagnarDanneskjol: we'll see. making no promises
asciilifeform: but unless i am mistaken, mircea_popescu is proceeding from an understanding that a quality reference implementation will require paid experts.
asciilifeform: hence his proclamation of 'tithe'
RagnarDanneskjol: might be that too
RagnarDanneskjol: got it. tithe I can live with. tax not so much
RagnarDanneskjol: can you pls direct me to jurov's requirements?
RagnarDanneskjol: or the rules of contention
asciilifeform: RagnarDanneskjol: http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev
RagnarDanneskjol: oh that ok
asciilifeform: described in 'submitting patches'
RagnarDanneskjol: right got it
asciilifeform: the only thing not mentioned there, is the absolute need for patches to be readable
RagnarDanneskjol: i see
asciilifeform: that is, it must address a specific thing, and patch is not really considered worthwhile until other participants are willing to sign it.
RagnarDanneskjol: should be interesting
asciilifeform: (which others must sign? this question has not been formally answered yet. on account of there not being a real maintainer.)
asciilifeform: i did the last merge personally, and i think a few folks here are using it
asciilifeform: but i'm not an 'official' anything.
asciilifeform: (other than being the devil who led these folks into the temptation of trying to craft a 'reference implementation.')
RagnarDanneskjol: heh
asciilifeform: i also wrote a few of the simple patches found on jurov's site right now
RagnarDanneskjol: cool
asciilifeform: entirely crud removal (of, e.g., gavin's 'emergency broadcast' crap)
decimation: asciilifeform: I did mange to get it working on openbsd, I think it wedged in a different spot
asciilifeform: decimation: i suspect that if you kill the db and run it again - different yet.
decimation: I had to add a few headers
asciilifeform: decimation: because non-deterministic - once db is corrupt, wedge.
decimation: yeah I was using the 'ports' db, which is 4.6 I think
asciilifeform: when corrups? no one knows
RagnarDanneskjol: speaking of support, how you been chalbersma - LA treating you ok
chalbersma: Ya been super busy. But it's nice out hear.
chalbersma: What seems to be the support problem you speak of?
RagnarDanneskjol: well, the folks here started a movement to roll back btc core development to a pristine, decrufted state
RagnarDanneskjol: and looking for guys like you with some hands on experience to contribute
chalbersma: Hmm sounds interesting.
RagnarDanneskjol: yea, should be fun
RagnarDanneskjol: getting some links to bring you up to speed
chalbersma: kk
RagnarDanneskjol: http://trilema.com/2014/the-bitcoin-foundation-finally-incorporated/
assbot: The Bitcoin Foundation finally incorporated! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
RagnarDanneskjol: http://f9beb4d9.org/
RagnarDanneskjol: http://qntra.net/2014/11/introducing-a-new-bitcoin-foundation/
assbot: Introducing A New Bitcoin Foundation | Qntra.net
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58120 @ 0.0005603 = 32.5646 BTC [-] {2}
Adlai: nice domain name byte order :D
chalbersma: Looks interesting.
chalbersma: I assume they're hosting the code somewhere?
RagnarDanneskjol: really only here for now: http://therealbitcoin.org no github or anything yet
RagnarDanneskjol: afaik
decimation: there's nothing like reading a slow signal on an old analog scope
RagnarDanneskjol: chalbersma - also worth mentioning (what's wrong w/ the 'official' ver): http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html
assbot: A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16350 @ 0.00056317 = 9.2078 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20124 @ 0.00056367 = 11.3433 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <RagnarDanneskjol> in particular the words it is established and moral requirement are unconscionable << why ?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> as i understand, he is trying to somehow deal with the little problem of no one standing up to unwedge 0.5.3 block loader. << nah, not related.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> decimation: i suspect that if you kill the db and run it again - different yet. << pretty much how this works yes.
mircea_popescu: <Adlai> nice domain name byte order :D << ben_vulpes idea
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu i suppose the notion of taxation in any form makes my brain burn -whether it be through force, state declaration or moral requirement. I am all in favor of the foundation and will likely contribute more than .01% of my earnings to it, but pressing a moral obligation or establishing a rule/precedent for 'taxation' for anyone participating in btc commerce just doesn't make
RagnarDanneskjol: any sense to me -especially until the foundation proves its worth/value
RagnarDanneskjol: *especially without
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol well... you familiar with the expression "i gave at the office" ?
RagnarDanneskjol: i dont think so. maybe
mircea_popescu: anyway, arguing against all tax may be a difficult tack for your average business trying to get on with its business rather than become noam chomsky.
mircea_popescu: manwhile, if they subscribe to this, they don't have to : "i won't pay you any tax, not for any other reason than that ~i already paid~".
mircea_popescu: case closed.
RagnarDanneskjol: ha, if only it were that easy
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, it's politically useful. while i can appreciate the philosophical argument of "epsilon is still fundamentally different from 0", it doesn't carry as much practical importance as all that. for one thing, everyone feels entitled to tax you .1%, including any bank moving your money, and so on and so forth. heck, the miners are taxing about 0.1%
mircea_popescu: making it a moral imperative rather than a legal imperative is also important, precisely because the ancient style of voluntary taxation is actually superior, on all scores, to whatever coercitive crap the socialists are doing today.
RagnarDanneskjol: not a tax - those are fees - paying for a service - one can opt out. point taken on moral vs legal imperative.. its the imperative part i'm still struggling with
mircea_popescu: ever read http://trilema.com/2013/some-basic-discussion-of-charity/ ?
assbot: Some basic discussion of charity pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
RagnarDanneskjol: oohh - I believe i missed it.. reading nao
mircea_popescu: main point being that ever since kant, all sorts of imperatives are left around.
RagnarDanneskjol: hmm. i see
scoopbot: New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/nopdf-a-pdf-to-text-conversion-tool/
PeterL: mircea_popescu: ^this one's for you :)
Adlai tries his hand at the turd polish
Adlai: https://github.com/adlai/bitcoin/tree/polish asciilifeform RagnarDanneskjol chalbersma and anybody else... fork and reuse
assbot: adlai/bitcoin at polish · GitHub
chalbersma: Thanks!
Adlai: np, and welcome
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18254 @ 0.00056483 = 10.3104 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: PeterL ah splwendid!
mircea_popescu: !s pdf
assbot: 303 results for 'pdf' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=pdf
mircea_popescu: http://btcscoop.com/cgi-bin/convert.py?docurl=https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/download/fedora_content/download/ac:141620/CONTENT/Ammous_columbia_0054D_10412.pdf
PeterL: I wonder if I should be caching a copy of documents so that it does not have to do the conversion for everybody clicking the link you just posted?
mircea_popescu: the next words out of my mouth were, PeterL pls to cache documents and
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla feature request : when assbot parses a pdf url, can it spit it out with http://btcscoop.com/cgi-bin/convert.py?docurl= prefixed for convenience, while also making a http request so as to start the conversion ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL "HTTP gateway timed out". caching's a must.
mircea_popescu: also if you queue incoming requests you can make sure you don't overrun your resources. sorta like how phuctor works
PeterL: hmm, now thinking of best way to do this ...
kakobrekla: convert on first request then serve from disk
kakobrekla: for converter.
Adlai: chalbersma (and anybody else who may have looked at the repo), please make sure to pull the non-FF changes that properly attribute commit authors
chalbersma: When I get a chance to do some hacking I'll be sure to.
ben_vulpes: an interesting approach, Adlai.
ben_vulpes: i'll link in the AM.
ben_vulpes: the thing is best pursued as the outputs of *authors*, rather than any sort of "blessed" anything by any sort of "foundation".
ben_vulpes: in the same vein as the declaration, the only code that matters is that as published by *individuals*, and only ever those in the wot.
ben_vulpes: Adlai: do us all a favor, and send the mailing list an email, yeah?
ben_vulpes: describe the repo in question and your branching policy if you have such and the time to elaborate upon it.
mircea_popescu: !up phish
mircea_popescu: "I lost a shit load in investments. I dont have anymore BTC left."
mircea_popescu: random forum imbecile, november 5th 2014.
mircea_popescu: "investments" they're called. mpoe-pr was totally a smart way to use money huh.
ben_vulpes: who is this: http://futurerant.tumblr.com/
assbot: FutureRant
mircea_popescu: nobody ?
mircea_popescu: !up zanza
mircea_popescu: "In my last post, I posited a fictional world, Crypton, where no governments1 back up contracts with the threat of force2."
mircea_popescu: "i read some shit from last year's trilema and here's my inept respinning of it!"
zanza: has anyone tried Bit4x?
mircea_popescu: isn;'t that kakobrekla's thing ?
zanza: yeah, he lists this as the IRC channel :o
kakobrekla: yeah
kakobrekla: sup
zanza: hey :D
kakobrekla: hi
zanza: bit4x good site? i am looking to do forex in bitcoin
zanza: it seems to have goot OTC review
zanza: good*
kakobrekla: well the site isnt that good but the service is
zanza: ok :) cool ill send an email and like to setup an cct
kakobrekla: alright
zanza: support@bit4x.com
kakobrekla: should work
zanza: the people on Bitcointalk seem rude
zanza: bitcointalk.com
mircea_popescu: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/american-bitcoin-pirate-slammed-for-securities-violations/ << i don't get it. how is the pic related ?
assbot: American Bitcoin Pirate Slammed for Securities Violations
mircea_popescu: zanza they're dumb is the problem. rude, whatever.
zanza: haha
mircea_popescu: "Greg Matthews is an internet pioneer and early domainer. "
mircea_popescu: seriously ? fucking retard world out there. "little timmy dribbles is an early cerealizer and soup eater"
zanza: Kakobrekla, may I ask, does running the Bit4x site have a lot of risk for you? i mean if prices change
zanza: or is it not that risky if price changes
mircea_popescu: " After selling his ISP company in 2007, he began work as a researcher and advocate for digital currencies. He enjoys working as a freelance writer and is editor in chief at Altcoin Press." totally, 5 year gap in the mongoloid's cv. spent 2007-2013 staring at a brick.
kakobrekla: for my part there is very little risk
zanza: ok, so do you balance the bitcoin storage somehow like I forget the word
zanza: so the price change doesn't effect you
zanza: I assume you use your own money to do the forex
mircea_popescu: you looking for hedge ?
zanza: and keep BTC as reserve
zanza: hedge!!
zanza: *ding ding*
kakobrekla: everything i do is btc denomiated
zanza: but you can't trade currency with BTC right? like Eur/USD
kakobrekla: you can
zanza: ahh, ok
zanza: got it thanks!
kakobrekla: you cant trade btcusd or btcxxx
zanza: is business ok for you? something you will continue doing in the future?
zanza: hoping it gets bigger
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23988 @ 0.00056483 = 13.5491 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu perks ears for this one.
zanza: I was reading Bitcointalk, people are looking for Forex to do with Bitcoin, but the main issue is trust
mircea_popescu: it's rare that noobs manage to ask questions i actually want to hear the answer to.
zanza: LOL
zanza: but the main Forex companies are so regulated by government I don't want to deal with them
zanza: none of them allow you to keep BTC balance I believe
kakobrekla: yes, more things to come soon
kakobrekla: there will web interface, api, internal signals, maybe mobile
kakobrekla: will be*
mircea_popescu: zanza if it helps you, kakobrekla had ~100 btc investment from F.MPIF for a few months, in his panacea forex fund. he paid back.
mircea_popescu: the details are in the f.mpif reports.
zanza: cool :) I think it is a great idea
zanza: and has very big possibility
zanza: in the future
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00056397 = 3.1864 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: a spoonful of dung has very big possibility, in the future.
kakobreklaa: blah, bnc died
Adlai: ;;isup www.bit4x.com
gribble: www.bit4x.com is down
kakobreklaa: ah our friend is listening
kakobreklaa: hi!
kakobreklaa: lucky i update the page once every 6 months or so you can look at internet archive for freshest news
mircea_popescu: kakobreklaa lol are you being persecuted ?
kakobreklaa: looks like
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m54SmVsQqgc << lmao check out them crazy candians
assbot: Loreena McKennitt - La Serenissima - YouTube
Adlai: kakobreklaa: so, this works entirely through mt4?
kakobreklaa: Adlai yea
Adlai: and scripting could be done with eg https://github.com/pczarn/metatrader-multilang ?
assbot: pczarn/metatrader-multilang · GitHub
kakobreklaa: idk if that works
kakobreklaa: i have a 0mq that will eat pgp
Adlai: upon further examination it does not seem to work
Adlai: or more precisely... it works, but not as expected by the optimistic plumber
Adlai: please tell us more about your pgpivorous steroid socket
kakobreklaa: not much to it, you send a signcrypted message to socket and get back an answer, just like mpex works
Adlai: dox?
kakobreklaa: not yet
mircea_popescu: o.O
Adlai: live public coaching via irc sometime next week?
Adlai will be away for a while
kakobreklaa: lol whats the rush
mircea_popescu: apparently people wanna use your things
Adlai: amazing feeling innit
mircea_popescu: much to everyone's surprise o.o
Adlai: to assuage that look of terminal shock in your eyes: there's no real rush, i have an endless list of other turds to polish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00056397 = 5.4705 BTC [-]
kakobreklaa: see i knew it
kakobreklaa: ;)
Adlai: but running scalpl on something other than btcfiat has been on the back burner for a long time, in part due to not wanting to touch any glitzy forex gambler-traps
mircea_popescu: omg kako stop sabotaging yourself, you're ready darling! pop that cherry!
Adlai: for all i know, my current parameters could be totally overfit to the quirks of two btcfiat marketplaces, or worse, the whole algorithm could be overfit to bitcoin's crazyness and may be totally worthless elsewhere
Adlai: so this is a fairly important avenue to explore
Adlai has to wait at least a week though, his qntry needs him
cazalla: <mircea_popescu> http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/american-bitcoin-pirate-slammed-for-securities-violations/ << i don't get it. how is the pic related ? <<< same guy who claimed his friends/family called him satoshi's drunk uncle
assbot: American Bitcoin Pirate Slammed for Securities Violations
mircea_popescu: so he's basically a drunk ?
Adlai: *drunkle
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2014#822992☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-09-2014 22:35:52; mircea_popescu: "Thank you for this clarification Mr. Nakamoto. It has been an honor to be labeled by my friends as "Satoshi's Drunk Uncle" and it's a moniker I'll wear proudly until the day I retire from Crypto. The Goldcoin (GLD) developers truly admire your work and strive to continue improving upon its design as a tribute to your unparallelled genius. Your admirer and relative in spirit, MicroGuy."
cazalla: that is what i refer to
mircea_popescu: lol drunkle
Adlai: (the author of the altcoinpress article)
mircea_popescu: wait. this dumb schmuck is talking to someone who isn't satoshi about how his fambly jesus christ
mircea_popescu: things just got too redditesque all of a sudden.
cazalla: this might be the first day since qntra started that i did not post.. nothing of interest today
mircea_popescu: "relative in spirit" ?
Adlai: *spirits
mircea_popescu: incomprehensible the void powering these... things, whatever they are. what was he doing before, talking to a bottle of draino about how he's bald in spirit, just like the genie guy ?
mircea_popescu: http://www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/mr-proper.jpg < whatever that's called.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which,
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell nubbins` http://www.fustar.info/2010/05/04/the-9th-circle-film-club-cybertracker-1994/ << this guy wanted a tshirt, in like 2010
assbot: The 9th Circle Film Club: CyberTracker (1994) | Fustar
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: any objections to punkbot changing name to "notary"?
kakobreklaa: notrly
Adlai: how about 'stuffy', ie 'not airy'
punkman: from that microguy https://www.startjoin.com/gogold
assbot: South African Goldcoin GLD Conference project on StartJOIN
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.0005609 = 18.678 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: punkman, he drinks fosters in his youtube videos and is under the impression that makes him an honorary australia
cazalla: australian* even
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.00056039 = 9.0503 BTC [-]
cazalla: http://youtu.be/Q3wxinuADjI?t=2m20s
assbot: South African Goldcoin (GLD) Conference - YouTube
Adlai: gribble | Error: Username already registered. Try a different username. << fucker
Adlai: help echangekey
punkman: my favourite australian beverage: http://www.kellysdistributors.net.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_231.jpg
cazalla: punkman, prefer the gingerbeer and sarsparilla
punkman: yeah the gingerbeer wasn't bad either
punkman: I can't get a decent gingerbeer around here, been considering brewing my own
Adlai: how do i add a gpg identity to my gribble account? i'm already registered with a bitcoin address, and gribble responds to eregister and echangekey with "Error: Username already registered. Try a different username."
punkman: adlai, echangekey should work I think, what error does it give you?
Adlai: Adlai | oh, a better question would be "in which keyserver does gribble look"
punkman: sks and mit
Adlai: punkman: ugh, it's sending me an encrypted otp, but responds to eauth with "Error: You have not registered a GPG key. Try using bcauth instead, or register a GPG key first."
punkman: auth with bc, then changekey?
Adlai: ;;ident adlai
gribble: Nick 'adlai', with hostmask 'Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai', is identified as user 'Adlai', with GPG key id None, key fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj
Adlai: ;;ident adlai
gribble: Nick 'adlai', with hostmask 'Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai', is identified as user 'Adlai', with GPG key id 4D88596A7CDA03F9, key fingerprint FCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj
Adlai: that took way too fucking long and is just as [in]secure as using a privkey >_<
punkman: how so?
Adlai: they're both the same overall protocol, just a serialization formats and signature algorithms
Adlai: s/ a /different/
punkman: well whaddayawant, second factor via SMS?
Adlai: ben_vulpes: i'm not seeing it in the mailing list yet, and i have to leave. hope this cuts it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pCFcsbrW
punkman: Adlai, gotta wait for key to reach jurov
Adlai waits on the go
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32051 @ 0.00056006 = 17.9505 BTC [-] {3}
cazalla: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/QRgj8LL0
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com
punkbot: cazalla: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17QDikg3
punkbot: Confirmed bundle 17QDikg3DHHNPnbq43ScYq17nMsN1G4XSo | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17QDikg3
punkbot: [trust-update] added: adlai
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00055845 = 8.293 BTC [-]
jurov: puknman what key?
jurov: *punkman
punkman: adlai tried posting to mail list, but you don't have his key yet
jurov: mhm
PinkPosixPXE: looks like he got authed
PinkPosixPXE: ;;gpg info adlai
gribble: User 'Adlai', with keyid 4D88596A7CDA03F9, fingerprint FCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj, registered on Sat Oct 6 00:55:28 2012, last authed on Sun Nov 9 04:47:12 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=Adlai . Currently authenticated from hostmask Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai .
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00055845 = 6.478 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.00056218 = 15.3475 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;later tell Adlai you're in
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38606 @ 0.00056347 = 21.7533 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24568 @ 0.00056347 = 13.8433 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00056629 = 6.8521 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14937 @ 0.00056469 = 8.4348 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=N4G424fA
punkbot: mod6: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1Kd3Fxzj
punkbot: Confirmed bundle 1Kd3FxzjPcjGW2icEneEEZgBgX7r37jS1S | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1Kd3Fxzj
mod6: <+asciilifeform> gotta sign, so we 'all hang together or separately' (as, i think, were the words of the americans.) << As true today as it was for Benjamin Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence in 1776
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00056629 = 8.0413 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.00056448 = 7.3665 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00056448 = 2.3144 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/11/darknet-sweep.pdf
asciilifeform: ^ http://pastebin.com/AAT1ZWq5
assbot: Darknet Sweep Casts Doubt on Tor Tor Will Be Defeated Again, and Again, and Ag - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla, mircea_popescu, others - re: 'nopdf' - i actually used to own 'nopdf.com' and planned to put a similar widget there. (2009-ish?)
asciilifeform: even included the caching thing
asciilifeform: but then realized that it would be mostly useless (in those days, almost everything i ever saw in 'pdf' belonged in that or similar format - technical documents heavy on graphics)
mircea_popescu: well, you gotta remember, a thing made is always a platform for further things.
asciilifeform: i did write a gizmo that outputs graphical render for the pages, but realized that the bandwidth and disk cache costs would break my back, and then let the domain go to the vultures.
asciilifeform: the interesting thing is the 'psychiatric' reason for the pestilential spread of pdf for text.
asciilifeform: it's essentially the same as the reason 'flash' exists.
mircea_popescu: the reason for it is contained in the declaration's last paragraphs.
mircea_popescu: governments have actual money to waste, and they do on hiring idiots.
asciilifeform: actually it's much simpler
mircea_popescu: then those idiots become a group large enough to drive fashions.
mircea_popescu: keeping idiots poor and powerless is the only sound purpose of government.
asciilifeform: plenty of people who aren't the least bit idiotic or government-affiliated want to package a document and have it appear exactly the same on the other end of the wire.
asciilifeform: no demented font substitutions, no dysfunctional selective execution of 'stylesheet' crud, etc.
asciilifeform: actual same picture.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and why do they want this ?
mircea_popescu: oh, wait, because the audience is demented and can't be trusted ?
asciilifeform: what observables would be different if the audience were not demented, and could be trusted?
mircea_popescu: you pump out the text, they figure out how to display it ?
mircea_popescu: you know, like... usenet ?!
mircea_popescu: nobody perceived a need for pdf back before sept 1993 did they ?
asciilifeform: actually
asciilifeform: postscript (essentially the guts of pdf) existed.
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: and heavily used, by academics
mircea_popescu: and it was used to ? wait for it!
mircea_popescu: to talk to motherfucking printers
mircea_popescu: which were demented at the time.
asciilifeform: it's still state of the art in driving printer.
mircea_popescu: i tell you. fixed-form is an instrument for talking with the braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: well yes, because printers are still by and large about as smart as a public servant.
mircea_popescu: smart isn't the world. about as sane.
asciilifeform: i like manuals, academic papers, etc. in dead tree.
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: and reflowable text sent to printer, looks like piss.
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't have to.
asciilifeform: the only solution to above is to essentially do the typesetter's job and latexize it
mircea_popescu: you know, while this may well be a pn complete problem in the general case,
mircea_popescu: that general case is actually chtulhu speaking
asciilifeform: i question that it even makes sense to ask for smart reflow independent of page size and shape
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the problem is not nearly as hard as all that.
mircea_popescu: dude. i question it even makes sense to have a good programming language right back at ya!
asciilifeform: tell that to the latex folks, they would love to know the elixir.
mircea_popescu: it ALWAYS makes sense to be smart.
asciilifeform: incidentally, they have quite a bit of clever automatics re: reflow
asciilifeform: but notice humans are still involved in typesetting.
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: fucking fidonet didn't need no stinking pdf.
mircea_popescu: and you know what ? it allowed asciiart!
mircea_popescu: how the fuck can you do that w/o adobe o noes!
mircea_popescu: none of the fucking lines allign! save us microsoft!
chetty: adobe is one of the pillars of evil
asciilifeform: aha i'll wait for somebody to asciiart my old soviet magazine scans, yes.
asciilifeform: basic problem here: if there were ten million idiots swinging hammers at strangers in the city streets, it does not thereby follow that carpenters ought to get by without hammers.
mircea_popescu: i am not proposing to remove the carpenter's hammers.
chetty: adobe reps were very adept at sabatoge back in the w3c days
mircea_popescu: fwiw, asylum, which i typeset myself, was printed as a pdf. the house ran a large web press, did my run in like three hours.
asciilifeform: also must appreciate how much hand-driven 'typesetting' (e.g., using linebreaks and editing around known fixed row/column viewers such as the 80x25 term) took place in the 'golden age' of fido et al
mircea_popescu: a man is not required to inherit his father's warts.
asciilifeform: except those were vital organs, not warts
asciilifeform: fact is, i don't want to read code page-broken in random places.
mircea_popescu: fixed row/column viewers ? how.
asciilifeform: well, elementary case of msdos text mode.
asciilifeform: plenty of things were written to fit in its 'screen-full'
asciilifeform: but more relevant to printers. fact is, reading anything technical that wasn't formatted for a particular page shape, and suffer idiot breaks.
mircea_popescu: these don't sound so much like vital organs.
JorgePasada: Greetings
asciilifeform: do you even use printers.
ben_vulpes: lookie lookie
pete_dushenski: http://rt.com/news/203583-drone-boning-porn-nsfw/
JorgePasada: Hey Ben :-)
JorgePasada: Long time no see
pete_dushenski wonders why mod6 and asciilifeform signed the tithe3 with SHA1...
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: ancient key
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform so ancient that you can't setpref to SHA512?
asciilifeform probably ought to
asciilifeform: problem is, let's say the devil has sha1 collision finder, and decides to apply to my case
asciilifeform: since my key flag bits permit sha1, he can still, say, sign into gribble as me.
asciilifeform: until i retire this key.
mod6: pete_dushenski: ah, yah, overlooked the flag *grumble*
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, and suppose you see a message from me using sha1 when you know i use sha512.
mircea_popescu: what now ?
mircea_popescu: canaries are canaries yeh ?
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: gotta understand that any big bad only exists as a work of fiction, otherwise is simply a collection of men. gotta give those men ways out, so that "mysterious" and "inexplicable" things happen
mircea_popescu: big bad is dumb as rocks, on its own. has nfi what all the things mean.
asciilifeform thinks back to various stories of captive soldiers getting messages out through various clever means.
pete_dushenski: https://www.debian-administration.org/users/dkg/weblog/48 << how to, just on the very-off-chance
assbot: Weblog for dkg - HOWTO prep for migration off of SHA-1 in OpenPGP
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9554 @ 0.00056563 = 5.404 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: easiest thing in the world is a mistake. the fucking cold war was won not by any other means than... mistakes.
pete_dushenski: the cold war was won?
mircea_popescu: multiple times.
pete_dushenski listening
mod6: well, i guess there isn't anything I can do now, other than sign it again with 512 ://
mircea_popescu: at some point in the cold war, the united states president was a totally inept ninkompoop, principally remembered for having taken his shoes off in the un council. this guy had an oversized military and inept economic policies that stalled the country. his fellow americans didn't think much of him, kept making little mistakes.
mircea_popescu: these piled up, eventually the us collapsed of it, took them twenty years to regroup, but meanwhile lost alaska and california.
JorgePasada: Anyone going to CCC this year? I'm thinking about making the trip
mircea_popescu: course then russia was trying to join california in the warsaw pact, and a bunch of topless aggitator chicks kept fucking the pot,
mircea_popescu: so in the end it's unclear.
asciilifeform: l0l!
mircea_popescu: shush you :)
mircea_popescu: appreciate my "in the end it's unclear" instead. it's damned good :D
mircea_popescu: mod6 it's no big deal, just change your pref and forget about it.
mircea_popescu: JorgePasada which is ccc again ?
mod6: *nod* ok, thanks mp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00056629 = 1.6989 BTC [+]
JorgePasada: https://twitter.com/31c3
assbot: CCC - 31c3 (@31c3) on Twitter
JorgePasada: Technically 31c3 is the confrerence I guess
JorgePasada: Chaos Computer Club (Conference)
mircea_popescu: ah, hamburg is a nice town
asciilifeform: punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/kwr11bEU
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com
punkbot: asciilifeform: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4382 @ 0.00056629 = 2.4815 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: noob question about pgp keys: is there any sense in airgapping for signing only?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the point of airgapping is to defend the key. which you are using when you sign, yes
pete_dushenski: right
ben_vulpes: you can also pull your master key out of the keyring and stash it safely somewhere, pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: so i guess the question is whether keeping a key online for gribble authing is *that* much of a risk
asciilifeform: the only person who can correctly determine your favourite level of risk - is you
pete_dushenski: myea
pete_dushenski: i suppose you could use a subkey for gribble and keep the master airgapped
asciilifeform: does wot mechanism automatically respect superceding keys?
asciilifeform: i still don't know this.
asciilifeform: personally, i have always used only the most basic and essential subset of pgp std. functionality.
asciilifeform: and wot isn't even the only gizmo here that uses keys
asciilifeform: jurov's turdatron, another
asciilifeform: and the ultimate champ in cementing ancient keys in place, or so i'm told, mircea_popescu's mpex
asciilifeform: where you gotta resubscribe if want to swap key.
PeterL: asciilifeform: re flash: my daughter's school uses some online math games, requires flash. I tried to log her in, can't because most recent flash is no longer supporting linux or pre-'08 macOS
asciilifeform: PeterL: it is worth thinking about why 'flash' remains a thing.
JorgePasada: PeterL: You running something with a PowerPC chip?
pete_dushenski: not like jobs didn't try to kill it
PeterL: just another way to introduce more dependencies
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> personally, i have always used only the most basic and essential subset of pgp std. functionality. <<
PeterL: JorgePasada: no, it is an intel
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: why cement?
JorgePasada: PeterL: Couldn't you just download a custom browser package that has a version of flash bundled with it then?
punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1DDnMWek
PeterL: but old enough that it can't upgrade to newer versions of MacOS
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, re i do the same.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: i suspect most folks here do this.
PeterL: JorgePasada: do they have such things?
mircea_popescu: PeterL yeah, flash running browsers have been a ubuntu specialty.
PeterL: I don't feel like I need flash enough to get a whole new browser
JorgePasada: PeterL: I believe that all versions of chrome do this automatically
PeterL: Oh, my computer can't get chrome, in VM Ubuntu the chrome says it can't get the latest flash
mircea_popescu: ahahaha
asciilifeform: http://philip.greenspun.com/research/internet-haters << how we ended up with 'flash' and similar crap.
assbot: Internet Haters -- HTML Chapter
PeterL: I might just break down and get a newer computer sometime
asciilifeform: 'flash' survives precisely because it is a mostly opaque binary format, which browsers can't 'spread democracy to'
PeterL: sort of the complete opposite of open source?
mircea_popescu: that';s a good point.
mircea_popescu: PeterL well, yes. "a man in charge" situation.
asciilifeform: (see also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=309 )
assbot: Loper OS » No Formats, no Format Wars.
mircea_popescu: as stupid as the man in charge can be, the benefits often outpace the damage. this was discussed here re stalin
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: this is why flash survives in spite of being written by - what appears to be downs-syndrome cases
asciilifeform: (or simply inept players of 'underhanded c contest')
asciilifeform: www in the html-js-and-extension-crud sense is a case of standards 'so open their brains fall out'
asciilifeform: a whole gang of vultures 'embraced and extended' them, including but not limited to microshit
asciilifeform: everything i just said re: flash, applies also to 'pdf'
mircea_popescu: this is, at least in my view, why personal sovereignity is not avoidable on the mid or long term.
mircea_popescu: the open/closed software has no stable solution otherwise.
asciilifeform: gotta keep democrashit out.
asciilifeform: or dissolve in it.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, living things seem a little more advanced than our computers on this exact path
mircea_popescu: they use exaclty a biological implementation of personal sovereignity to build open but not too open systems that survive well in the world.
asciilifeform: a greybeard once described the modern computer as 'apartment with plumbing but no sewer connection'
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: it did not make sense in my mind at the time.
asciilifeform: the above point re: flash and pdf, also applies to game machines.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, for the theoretically minded : would you say the b-a software paradigm is open source or closed source ?
mircea_popescu: because it technically satisfies both definitions.
asciilifeform: one reason why folks still write programs for toys such as 'super nintendo' - despite the need to DIY roms
asciilifeform: because the machine is standard. as in, entirely. and entirely stateless except for your rom.
asciilifeform: hence definable. and works, like mathematics, rather than like sand castle built in a cesspit.
mircea_popescu: yeah hacking the supernintendo is actually still part of training hackers afaik.
punkbot: Confirmed bundle 1DDnMWekucn2XDeCHpfgz5MvM5Y6VYiVp2 | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1DDnMWek
PeterL: we have a software paradigm now?
asciilifeform: b-a software paradigm?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform PeterL it's developing software, is it not ?
PeterL: could you specify our paradigm?
asciilifeform: from what i can personally see, it's heavy on the duct tape
asciilifeform: and likely to suffer the fate of the first deedbot at some point, possibly repeatedly
mircea_popescu: PeterL well, it should be obvious in the logs :D!!!
PeterL: so far, to me, it looks open source
mircea_popescu: PeterL if you're in the wot.
PeterL: but anybody can read it
mircea_popescu: suppose ninjashogun wants to push a patch for deedbot. or, whatever, the cardano.
PeterL: and anybody can get into the WoT
mircea_popescu: yes, anyone can read it. i went to a swinger's club yest, anyone could look at my bitches.
mircea_popescu: and i did happen to have the finest bitches in the place, buncha losers.
mircea_popescu: but what's in a look ?
mircea_popescu: and no, emphatically NOT anyone can get in the wot.
mircea_popescu: that safadean fellow can get in the wot. but otherwise, most people can try.
PeterL: well, with code, they could fork it and make their own version
mircea_popescu: sure, they could.
asciilifeform: and they can grow own gurlz
mircea_popescu: i hear gavin is planning to fork bitcoin and make his own version.
mircea_popescu: so ?
PeterL: so therefore it is open for anybody to take
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: one possible argument here is that the complete system is not in the code.
JorgePasada: PeterL: Anyone can fork it, not anyone can do the backlog of proof of work to 'take' things though.
mircea_popescu: PeterL huns are open for anyone to take, and kill themselves with.
PeterL: lol
mircea_popescu: code works slowly, you spend a life and in the end it's all a waste.
JorgePasada: asciilifeform: exactly, it's in the network of people & the chain of transactions and everything that's brought us to this point.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is necessarily so. because godel is a cult.
mircea_popescu: PeterL look at the discussion about al schwartz's failed measurements.
asciilifeform: ^^
mircea_popescu: he ~could~ have made his own chemistry.
mircea_popescu: except ars longa cocka smalla.
mircea_popescu re-reads, notices he misspelled guns as huns, wonders why the fuck has he not realised this before.
PeterL: would you consider chemistry literature open or closed? I guess it is similar idea, to put stuff in it has to be vetted by experts
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/pigfarmin/
asciilifeform: PeterL: what is the point of shoehorning things into these weird categories?
mircea_popescu: ^ that's r18 btw, don't read among small children.
PeterL: dunno, mircea_popescu asked about open/closed source
mircea_popescu: PeterL the reason i said "for the theoretically minded" was exactly this tongue in cheek point. "take your broken models and try make sense of the world whydontcha!"
PeterL: but I want everything to fit in the models I already have !!1!
mircea_popescu: you'd make a great nine year old
pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/531243553415233536
assbot: Just like http://t.co/VhF3XQ1Tiq RT /nntaleb: Hard to conceive, but /hashtag/ISIS?src=hash is the product of the internet.
pete_dushenski: @pete_dushenski Just like http://bitcoin-assets.com RT @nntaleb: Hard to conceive, but #ISIS is the product of the internet.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets | You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pigfarmin' << it's like my childhood favorite 'alt.tasteless' newsgroup lives again!
asciilifeform takes off hat
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the entire extension and so forth : everything that works on the internet and in the world works on "our" principles.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck ever read whatever software the dns letters run ? who ever wrote a patch for it ?
asciilifeform: this is more or less same as the (very true) observation that buildings which stand up, whether in england or in best-korea, are designed on same basic principles.
mircea_popescu: right.
pete_dushenski: which is why they invented hammurabi's code
pete_dushenski: the architect knows more than the inspector ever could
pete_dushenski: building fails, dead architect
ben_vulpes: "they"?
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1GN8SYD.txt )
asciilifeform: !b 4
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes god? babylonians? what difference does it make ;)
pete_dushenski: the concept of skin in the game is nothing new
JorgePasada: pete_dushenski: Yeah, we just have a lot of half-assed implimentations of it in modern society.
mircea_popescu: to "foster creativity"
JorgePasada: Bitcoin is a whole-assed implementation of skin in the game...
JorgePasada: or an assholes implementation, forget which.
pete_dushenski: lol
mircea_popescu: rapist's.
pete_dushenski: anyways i'm off. have a great afternoon!
mircea_popescu: i believe the proper femsociety word for one who does not care about stupid shit is rapist.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33054 @ 0.00056629 = 18.7181 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "The result? A formatting language too wimpy even for a novel." <<< this is pure nonsense. i had my novel on the web just fine in plain html.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of which! http://www.amazon.com/Asylum-The-Novel-Chet/dp/B000ODPCKQ holy shit aftermarket.
assbot: Asylum: The Novel: Chet, Zeno: Amazon.com: Books
chetty: hahahahaha
asciilifeform bought
mircea_popescu: chetty can you believe people still buy your stuff a decade later ?
mircea_popescu: i mean... that's like britney spears level.
chetty: weird
chetty: now I wonder how many copies of that are floating about
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it was a fun thing to make, that. i think i still have the publisher responses somewhere, "omg you write the greatest letters and whoa so sorry i can't publish this"
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3239316488198320@naggum.no.html << obligatory naggum on formatting
assbot: Re: The Next Generation of Lisp Programmers - Naggum cll archive
chetty: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827116/Kissing-bug-disease-infected-300-000-people-don-t-know-parasite-referred-new-AIDS.html
assbot: 'Kissing bug' disease infected OVER 300,000 people in the US | Daily Mail Online
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2009/lectia-de-humor/ speaking of mono
assbot: Lectia de humor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
chetty: this isnt mono, its a parasite from central america
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00056643 = 5.9758 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: o a new one ?!
chetty: nah, just new to the us, because of all the immigration
mircea_popescu: ah chagas. heh.
mircea_popescu: chetty ultimate disease of poverty.
mircea_popescu: i guess after all the tb and bedbug outbreaks in the best socialist california, twas unavoidable.
asciilifeform: all the weird diseases of the tropics, necrotizing fasciitis, etc., will find a welcoming home in usa.
asciilifeform: buruli ulcer.
mircea_popescu: what's that burning water worm called ?
asciilifeform: you name it, there's a welcoming climate here somewhere for it.
mircea_popescu: ;;google dracunculus medinensis.
gribble: Dracunculus medinensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracunculus_medinensis>; CDC - Guinea Worm Disease - Biology: <http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/guineaworm/biology.html>; CDC - Guinea Worm: <http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/guineaworm/>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00056641 = 20.2775 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: anyway, speaking of leprosy, that thing is a wonder to behold.
mircea_popescu: it's basically a normal bacterium genome that was completely mushed to bits, barely a third of it still works.
mircea_popescu: yet the thing still survived to present day. makes stuff like the www look likely to live on.
mircea_popescu: "Professional graphic artists generally produce Web sites on Macintoshes. They slave over the images until the mid-tones look just right, mid-tones that will be mapped almost to black on a typical Sun workstation or PC. The solution to this problem is trivial: a gamma= field in the IMG HTML tag."
mircea_popescu: holy shit bad idea omfg.
mircea_popescu: giving idiot "web designers" a gamma= is like giving idiot web designers autoplay video with a volume=.
mircea_popescu: worst idea ever, greenspun should be shot.
asciilifeform: gamma-whateverthefuck on uncalibrated displays that one has never seen with own eyes...
asciilifeform: very special, yes.
asciilifeform was recently issued a $maxint laptop and was surprised to discover a built-in spectrometer.
asciilifeform: http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/5/6539_44_lenovo_thinkpad_w540_mobile_workstation_laptop_review.jpg << that one
asciilifeform: haven't tried it, winblows-only it seems
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: dude.... spend the time to put a (was it clock driven ?) spectrometer in a laptop
mircea_popescu: run it on windows.
asciilifeform: there's a reverse-engineered driver for it, somewhere. can't be bothered.
mircea_popescu: "If you wrote @bold{foo} instead of <bold>foo</bold>, you would not even /want/ to say @bold{foo @italic{bar} zot} if you expected to get foo in bold, zot in italic, and bar in both." <<< wait, wut ?
mircea_popescu: dafuck would i want to say, @b{foo}@bi
mircea_popescu: {bar} ?
asciilifeform: the verbose monstrosities of **ml-series were justified by the notion that a) no one will ever be forced to write them by hand b) no one will ever be forced to read them with naked eyes
asciilifeform: both turned out to be crocks of shit
asciilifeform: and the basic premise was also a crock of shit (if no naked eyes nor naked hands, why not a compact binary format?)
mircea_popescu: no but wait, my question is, if not {[()]} then what, ()[()]() etc ?
asciilifeform: he was arguing, in the end, for s-expressions.
mircea_popescu: in the end. and its a great point. but before he gets there he steps in it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00056563 = 5.4018 BTC [-]
asciilifeform off to see some exotic cats. raises a glass to the ghost of moiety.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30983 @ 0.00056448 = 17.4893 BTC [-]
mod6: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jv7pPT8p
punkbot: mod6: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
mod6: ^ with the 512 for good measure
mod6: mp also, thx for the tip about "personal-digest-preferences"
mod6: so has anyone else noticed that the makefile doesn't provide a way to build /without/ debug flags? lol
mod6: you know, incase you'd like to have a binary that isn't bloated with debug symbols?
mod6: anyway, there is a bunch of stuff obv. just another thing for clean up at some point.
punkman: re: sha1 and gpg settings, this is useful https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/blob/master/saneprefs/gpg.conf
assbot: cooperpair/gpg.conf at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub
punkman: repository also has example of colliding keyids
punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17gPmTTu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2283 @ 0.00056656 = 1.2935 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah, and i dunno why that is.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.00056662 = 9.8025 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: punkman: any objections to punkbot changing name to "notary"? << i like it.
mod6: ah, yeah +1
punkbot: Confirmed bundle 17gPmTTuoDRYZXAAHgEu1NZHQwMYeRUoHC | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17gPmTTu
jurov: punkbot: deed https://coinbr.com/decl.txt.asc
punkbot: jurov: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.
ben_vulpes: lol did we *all* overlook the typo in the last paragraph?
mircea_popescu: cazalla: australian* even << really seems that guy is trying superhard to belong ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i was curiously waiting for the first one to notice.
mircea_popescu: i guess you get the fox award.
ben_vulpes: 'twas mod6 actually
ben_vulpes has a feeling he'll be saying that a lot
mircea_popescu: lol
jurov: oppinion?
mircea_popescu: yea
jurov: that's there for future data archeologists, to discern fakes
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/an-interesting-anthropology-question/
jurov: they will also consider this a confirmation that mircea rides his keyboard hard
mircea_popescu: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/blob/master/saneprefs/gpg.conf << not bad!
assbot: cooperpair/gpg.conf at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub
mircea_popescu: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/openpgp/current/msg01077.html << who the fuck came up with thar brilliant idea.
assbot: Re: Suggested changes for DSA2, take 4
jurov: the article mentions "boundries" several times, too
mircea_popescu: "If the output size of the chosen hash is larger than the number of bits of q, the hash result is truncated to fit by taking the number of leftmost bits equal to the number of bits of q. This (possibly truncated) hash function result is treated as a number and used directly in the DSA signature algorithm."
mircea_popescu: ah ty.
mircea_popescu: http://bitdesire.com/crypto-money-expo-online-meeting/ << who is this ?
assbot: Crypto Money Expo - Bitcoin online meeting - Bitdesire - The Bitcoin Network
jurov: Both conference founder Eyal Abramovitch and speaker/sponsor Ofir Beigel are members of Meni Rosenfeld‘s Israeli bitcoiner meetup.
punkman: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/tree/master/keysteak << "intercepts a request for a key by keyid, generates a PGPv3 key, performs the 0xdeadbeef attack, and returns a spoofed (but valid) PGPv3 key with the same long keyid."
assbot: cooperpair/keysteak at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub
punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1N8cgoM7
mircea_popescu: punkbot kinda why we use fingerprints.
punkbot: Confirmed bundle 1N8cgoM7SEC7bStCwWEuWFTcn8pKJGgcYa | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1N8cgoM7
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i think it claims to handle fingerprints as well: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/tree/master/keysteak#usage
assbot: cooperpair/keysteak at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub
mircea_popescu: that's a bold claim.
ben_vulpes: it's hard to tell if it's claiming that. the doc says "try this"
ben_vulpes: and i've not.
mircea_popescu: o wait, this is pgp v3
mircea_popescu: forget it lol, the thing is roughly bitcoin .9
mircea_popescu: i think even debian dropped it 5 years ago
ben_vulpes: subject of .9, has anyone downloaded the full chain with a .5/.6/.7/.8/.9 client? no bootstrapping, no shared db?
mircea_popescu: (v3 keys were md5 hashed)
punkman: it also does some tricks to make it look like v4 "Create a PGPv3 public key, v4 UID, and v4 signature"
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is of relatively little consequence to us, because we use gribble rather than the pks mess.
punkman: worth a few words on wiki
punkman: don't steal my shares guys http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/5RE44ZXbZyHhDqxLaBvKiYUztfyDcJSATzE8Gy4mN2eD
assbot: Deed 5RE44ZXb | #bitcoin-assets deed registry
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly, use fingerprints. but that aside, best practice is still to extract key via gribble db
punkman: you can only get fingerprint from gribble
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean only ? that's what it is.
mircea_popescu: keyid8A736F0E2FB7B452 fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452
mircea_popescu: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.crypt/JSSM6NbfweQ << this is good on the topic
assbot: Google Gruppi
mircea_popescu: (of deadbeef v3 gpg sigs attack)
cazalla: <mircea_popescu> http://bitdesire.com/crypto-money-expo-online-meeting/ << who is this ? <<< i'm reading this and think, i fucking wrote this article!
assbot: Crypto Money Expo - Bitcoin online meeting - Bitdesire - The Bitcoin Network
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: so leave the guy a comment.
jurov: ben_vulpes iirc i did it with .7 or .8 then "bootstrapped" .9 by pointing it to .8 node on LAN
mircea_popescu: did with numerous .6 versions.
jurov: but a hdd died, so i don't have pre - .9 blockchain anymore
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22146 @ 0.00056662 = 12.5484 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: good to know, thanks
ben_vulpes is wondering about the practicality of using 0.5.3 as a starting pin
jurov: we'll see if this gets anywhere... it's how much since whole thing started? a week?
punkman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xombrero
assbot: xombrero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: also webkit.
mircea_popescu: and im pretty sure all my blockchains are pre .5 for that matter.
jurov: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgzMjg , also another dude (Colin Watson) has quit
assbot: [Phoronix] Joey Hess Resigns From Debian, Unhappy With How It's Changed
jurov: http://debianfork.org/
assbot: Roll up your sleeves, we may need to fork Debian.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00056664 = 2.6632 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: wow mpoe on sale!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00056722 = 8.2247 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: ;;seen adlai
gribble: adlai was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 hours, 28 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: * Adlai waits on the go
mircea_popescu: !up saifedean
mircea_popescu: debian certainly went to shit since sarge.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8271 @ 0.00056662 = 4.6865 BTC [-]
saifedean: good day gentlemen
mircea_popescu: hello!
saifedean: mo, i did email you the dissertation the other day, did you get it?
mircea_popescu: i did.
saifedean: great, just making sure
mircea_popescu: i didn;'t get around to reading it yet, but its in the pile.
saifedean: no worries,
Naphex: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/11/silk-road-other-tor-darknet-sites-may-have-been-decloaked-through-ddos/ lmao!
assbot: Silk Road, other Tor “darknet” sites may have been “decloaked” through DDoS | Ars Technica
mircea_popescu: i still think you should publish it. ever seen http://trilema.com/2014/a-conceit-or-the-importance-of-blogging/ ?
assbot: A conceit, or the importance of blogging pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
saifedean: so, mp, are you going to be in Buenos Aires January/Feb? I might be popping by for a week or so
Naphex: "es, hello, Internet supervillain here," nachash, said that his server—a virtual private server running the German hosting service Hetzner—was initially hit by what he believed was a denial of service attack in Augus'
mircea_popescu: Naphex maybe they were decloaked through sexism.
mircea_popescu: saifedean yes. for that matter, the bitcoin conference is in april.
mircea_popescu: $conference
empyex: mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 5 months and 8 days. Estimated cost today: 3.74478709 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14146 @ 0.00056652 = 8.014 BTC [-]
saifedean: much as i'd love to be in the conference, april might be tough, especially as i'm so goddamn far, but i'll let you know if i manage to work out jan/feb
saifedean: but if you like buenos aires and istanbul, from what i gather from your blog, you will absolutely love beirut... who's like istanbul's little prettier sister
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: problem being she hangs out with all these bikers.
mircea_popescu: Naphex on a related note, i really don't get all these derps going "oh you know what ? i'll run a hertzner vm through this magic layer. presto, totally anon!"
saifedean: you lay down the law and the bikers disappear, mp... just book your ticket
ben_vulpes: ;;ident saifedean
gribble: Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.
mircea_popescu: lol
JorgePasada: Anyone have any good reading on all the stuff that's been happening with tor because of this latest raid thing?
dub: i think the learning is (or was since years ago) don't use tor
JorgePasada: Yeah, not for anything secure obviously, but you can still learn from stuff like this I feel
dub: you can learn not to do anything on a network that you wouldnt be happy with obama reading
ben_vulpes: http://www.entropykey.co.uk/ << more entropy hardware, ARM micros included!
assbot: Simtec Electronics Entropy Key: USB True Random Number Generator
dub: oh my god the new firefox ui is terrible
dub: they need to share that good weed around
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27206 @ 0.00056708 = 15.428 BTC [+] {2}