log☇︎
867 entries in 0.545s
mircea_popescu: cazalla nubbins` link above. border cracked entropy gen.
assbot: Mycelium Entropy opened by Border Agents - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ee0JE2 )
nubbins`: "Sum-up : 73 tests performed. Cardano RNG : Failed 2, Weak 5, Passed 66. Radioactive decay : Failed 9, Weak 13, Passed 51. Now go take your current entropy source, put it through diehard and see what happens. "
assbot: 8 results for 'cardano entropy' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cardano+entropy
nubbins`: !s cardano entropy
mircea_popescu: fun fact : you can acutally hand-load the entropy pool.
asciilifeform: (very scant, but real, 'meat entropy' from human devices, etc)
asciilifeform: (do not read this to take that a battery-backed clock is any kind of source of entropy, also.)
asciilifeform: bitcoind does not need entropy for anything
asciilifeform: mod6: it has -no- source of entropy other than i/o
asciilifeform: i'll emphasize that it isn't a 'won't work in the cold' so much as 'entropy relying on sram effects degrades ungracefully'
assbot: Logged on 15-07-2014 20:23:09; Rassah: In our tests, it still had plenty of entropy at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. Maybe we should put warning stickers on these things saying "Caution - Chaotic System. Do not use in low entropy environments above the Arctic or below the Antarctic circle, unless exposed to external sources of energy" :)
nubbins`: ^ packaged w/ mycelium entropy thingy
assbot: FS#34580 : [rng-tools] Default configuration of rng-tools adds no real entropy to /dev/random ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hsiq01 )
funkenstein_: came with a free difficult to decipher t-shirt that says "entropy this ease freedom"
funkenstein_: got my mycelium stuxnet entropy in the mail yesterday
danielpbarron: i doubt 1) your entropy generating abilities 2) your not telling a secret when a hot iron is inserted into your body abilities
mircea_popescu: "Extropy is a proposed opposing concept to entropy. As entropy decreases , signifying more order, so extropy would increase in the manner of negentropy."
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/myceliums-entropy-to-begin-shipping/
thestringpuller: 10 years from now when phuctor starts detecting broken entropy systems
ben_vulpes: there's something about working in lisp that seems to reduce the speed at which entropy chews apart a webdev project.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` nah this won't work. the usb actually steals entropy from pc neh ?
asciilifeform: can embed canned entropy in the eeprom but obvious caveats.
mircea_popescu: "to deny entropy that final satisfaction".
joecool: mircea_popescu: i was unaware of the entropy issues on signing until after this was implemented, until then i had assumed it was only important to generate the keys themselves with sufficient entropy
mircea_popescu: entropy could be more important for encryption than signing.
joecool: mircea_popescu: there are two major problems with this implementation that i see. both are problems the cardano solves, 1. the system knows it's a smartcard and malicious software could use it, and 2. weak entropy generation for signing
mircea_popescu: "The reason for doing this is that we can better reason about the output of a CSPRNG; by contrast, it is difficult to reason about the output of the entropy source." << gotta love the sweet innocence on display here tho.
jurov: The output of the conditioner is then fed into a cryptographically secure pseudo-random number generator (CSPRNG). The reason for doing this is that we can better reason about the output of a CSPRNG; by contrast, it is difficult to reason about the output of the entropy source.
jurov: Most entropy sources don't produce "good" random numbers. The source may, for example, produce ones only 25% of the time. This doesn't negate the value of the source. However, the "obvious" non-randomness must be eliminated; that is the task of the conditioner.
mircea_popescu: the less you figh entropy while still doing your job, the longer you'll live.
mircea_popescu: entropy is to be embraced. it's no surender when you manage to flow with it.
asciilifeform: well, in a sense they are; but we're really surrendering to entropy here far more than, imho, is necessary
mircea_popescu: too many unsafe on weak entropy systems. then again, whith a good entropy source, 256 or 65536 could be the default.
kakobrekla: well its how the world works! even shit can hide from entropy.
mircea_popescu: dude check out the poor entropy in kbd mashing. who knew!
Pierre_Rochard: Made a little script to help with pete_dushenski’s high-entropy wallet creation method: https://github.com/PierreRochard/entropic
adlai: brains are definitely shitty entropy sources
adlai: maybe my priorities are misplaced, but one huge problem I saw with the whole entropy thingy is... the printer
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1y61MkH )
asciilifeform: pete's article: http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt
assbot: Entropy :: Mycelium ... ( http://bit.ly/1y61H0m )
adlai: http://mycelium.com/entropy
adlai: you must really love mycelium entropy
mircea_popescu: and they rely on good entropy
Adlai: AMAZING ENTROPY
jurov: ENTROPY CARES
Adlai: entropy cares how it's serialized
Adlai: frankly, my crypto knowledge is lacking to have anything meaningful to say on this issue, beyond "gpg keys can have an order of magnitude more entropy than bitcoin pubkey hashes"
asciilifeform: nubbins`: see the discussion last year of the 'entropy' of the digits of 'pi'.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: entropy key << gadget was discussed here many times. appears to be permanently unavailable (and closed-source.)
assbot: Simtec Electronics Entropy Key: USB True Random Number Generator
ben_vulpes: http://www.entropykey.co.uk/ << more entropy hardware, ARM micros included!
decimation: I'm dubious that there is much real coordination of these things, more just random entropy in various usg departments
bounce: anyway, so essentially anything you do causes entropy by waste heat. eventually heat death of the universe. but where does the energy to heat up come from?
assbot: 2 results for 'down with entropy' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=down+with+entropy
asciilifeform: !s down with entropy
asciilifeform: 'any periodic noise that makes it through simply reduces the bits/byte number of the entropy and gets smeared out by subsequent whitening' << is he serious? gotta be trolling
asciilifeform: 'we're making entropy - not a full random number generator, something to feed it' << ???!??
Naphex: CheckDavid: you get more entropy from a generator
Naphex: this is how entropy use from /dev/random looks like on a SSL gateway (reasonable amount of connections/handshakes)
Naphex: revo ~ # cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
Naphex: which gives you the amount of available entropy bytes
Naphex: on linux kernels you have the value exported through procfs /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
CheckDavid: I'm not sure how that entropy is cached or generated.
Naphex: so if you're running openssl it shouldn't go down below 200 bytes of available entropy
CheckDavid: 200 bytes of entropy?
CheckDavid: There's not enough entropy in the regular sensors of a computer?
adlai: "dumb"? doesn't this just mean you can treat it as providing less entropy than the number of bits it spits out?
mircea_popescu: cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products? << not really, no. other than "we don't have a clue how it's done but this is sekoority and so being mysterious is the next best thing"
asciilifeform: cazalla: is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy << your crystal ball's answer is correct.
PeterL: cazella: maybe they are not making good entropy and are embarrased to admit it?
cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products?
mircea_popescu: there HAVE been cases where bitcoin used shitty entropy.
assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell PinkPosixPXE: When the Mycelium Entropy is inserted into the USB drive << see http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt/
PinkPosixPXE: asciilifeform: For serious security, perhaps yes, but everything runs on hardware, it's just the software layer that interacts with how entropy is derived from teh hardware wether it's something you plug in or something you run on a server
PinkPosixPXE: When the Mycelium Entropy is inserted into the USB drive, hardware-based entropy is harnessed to create a large, truly random, number. The random number is generated using a static RAM chip, which Holcomb, D.E.; Burleson, W.P.; and Fu. K. have proven is capable of generating “128-bit true random numbers.” This number is then used as the seed to generate a private key and corresponding Bitcoin
assbot: Mycelium Successfully Funds USB Bitcoin Wallet Device, Entropy, With Indiegogo - CryptoCoinsNews
PinkPosixPXE: There's that new usb device called 'entropy' which is a usb coin wallet, that you can just plug in https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/mycelium-successfully-funds-usb-bitcoin-wallet-device-entropy-with-indiegogo/
PinkPosixPXE: it uses /dev/urandom, it's not hardware driven, it just pulls entropy through rng-tools software, rather than 'mouse input' or 'disk activity' etc.
PinkPosixPXE: Fixed my issue earlier today, entropy isn't solely hardware dependant,
PinkPosixPXE: So we have to increase entropy somehow. This can be done with rng-tools, a package to use a hardware true number generator (TRNG). Don't worry, you don't need any extra hardware, we will use /dev/urandom as our true number generator.
assbot: Helping The Random Number Generator To Gain Enough Entropy With rng-tools (Debian Lenny) | HowtoForge - Linux Howtos and Tutorials
PinkPosixPXE: http://www.howtoforge.com/helping-the-random-number-generator-to-gain-enough-entropy-with-rng-tools-debian-lenny
asciilifeform: PinkPosixPXE: tools that help increase entropy << what've we come to. as if the heat death of universe weren't arriving quickly enough...
PinkPosixPXE: then there's tools that help increase entropy
PinkPosixPXE: just trying to generate entropy
PinkPosixPXE: did it time out on generating a gpg key due to lack of entropy?
BingoBoingo: because apparently real Macs don't generate entropy
PinkPosixPXE: BingoBoingo: I'd need more details, but essentially you can use rng-tools/rng to increase the entropy on a server. How it would be implemented for your exact use, would require more discussion.
BingoBoingo: PinkPosixPXE: Know any way to seed an entropy pool in NEtBSD on MacSE/30?
mircea_popescu: <decimation> indeed. The other day I was trying to find an etf or stock that didn't depend on 'bezzle' (ie usg fiat finance). I didn't succeed. << this is roughly equivalent to, "the other day, i tried to find a natural process going backwards in entropy. i didn't succeed"
BingoBoingo: One can't exactly oversee entropy in the same way one oversaw order on the plantations
gribble: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy | In thermodynamics, entropy (usual symbol S) is a measure of the number of specific ways in which a thermodynamic system may be arranged, commonly ...
punkman: ;;wp entropy
bounce: "security by lack of entropy" -- my, wouldn't that be useful
mircea_popescu: no, by way of 1 bit of trilema contsaining 1 bit of information and so no room for this entropy cheez
jurov: trilema entropy is 0 << means 1 bit of trilema text contains 0 bits of information?
mircea_popescu: trilema entropy is 0